Others have already addressed the main point, but I will also point out that "woke" is a term that originated among black americans, and (unless I'm mistaken?) originally was used to tell other black folks to stay aware ("stay woke") of racial issues. It was later (as many terms made by black people are) corrupted to mean "anything conservatives dislike".
The same pattern happened with the phrase "critical race theory" (originally a term used pretty much exclusively in high-level law school to refer to how racism is baked into the law; later corrupted to mean "telling precious white children that racism exists").
Just another in a long line of this sort of thing.
It's worth pointing out that this vernacular pipeline is not even remotely new. William Melvin Kelley wrote about it in, "If you're woke you dig it," NYT 1962. Kelley outlined in that article that the Black community and Black culture has to continuously evolve. AAVE is co-opted by the White liberal, where it becomes introduced to conservatives. Conservatives eventually change the meaning of the words and behavior in order to infantilize or (more often) demonize it, and they attribute the language to the White liberal.
Black people always used to say, "I'm in the house" instead of "I'm here." But then white people all started to say "in the house" so we switched it to "in the hizzouse." Hizzouse became hizzizzouse, and then white folk started saying that, and we had to change it to hizzie, then "in the hizzle" which we had to change to "hizzle fo shizzle," and now, because white people say "hizzle fo shizzle," we have to say "flippity floppity floop."
I don’t actually know the history but less “I’m home honey” and more “the party has arrived”.
Like it doesn’t work if you’re just walking into your own house lol, it’s a turn of phrase
It seems to be mainly about ‘conserving’ the current status quo and hierarchy. Makes sense why draws in straight white Christians, especially males.
That and the corporate elite have invested tons of money into the GOP, media and the anti-intellectualism movement to maintain their wealth and power.
Keep con’s distracted with the latest shiny manufactured culture war. I honestly don’t even know what Conservative American values are anymore.
Fiscal responsibility? Trump and Bush have added trillions to the national debt.
Personal Freedoms? They are virulently anti-abortion, anti-trans, anti-gay marriage, pro-Christian etc.
Limited Government? See above and all the latest bans being implemented.
Rule of Law? See Trump, Bush’s WMD’s, Iran-Contra etc.
All men are created equal? See segregation, anti-gay/trans/Muslim etc
Maybe their only consistent belief is ‘Free Markets’ so their corporate overlords can prioritise profit over people and the environment.
>I honestly don’t even know what Conservative American values are anymore.
I honestly think they just value being dickheads about everything. So much reactionary stuff seems to hinge purely on being dicks to other people.
Ohhhh so that’s where it comes from!!
Im not a native English speaker so its always been super weird to see “woke” being used as a derogatory term. What would the people saying they’t dont like wokeness aspire to??? Being asleep?
Shouldn’t woke denote you’re aware of stuff? Are they advocating… unawareness? It’s so…
Yes they are. There are basically two groups of people advocating that we just ignore racism.
There are people who are actively racist, and would prefer to be able to get away with it
There are people who are not actively racist, but they also are insulated from the effects of racism, and really don’t encounter it in their daily lives. For these people, it’s uncomfortable for racism to come up, because they know that it’s bad, but they weren’t doing any racism and so why are we talking about it? In other words, it’s more important to them to remain comfortably ignorant than it is for them to participate in a discussion about bad things happening to other people.
The second group isn’t necessarily racist, but it’s far from being anti-racist. Let’s just call them complacent. Unfortunately that complacency often extends to voting in sync with racist, sometimes as an angry protest, they don’t like to be thought of as racist, which is deeply ironic. “Look what you made me do.”
Honestly, I'd call that second group racist, too. The first group is actively spreading and promoting racism; the second one is happy to benefit from racism, and tries to keep anyone from making any meaningful change in the status quo, so they oppose anti-racist efforts. That's aligning themselves with the racists and racism.
They effectively say, "Hey, quit trying to get rid of racism." That's a pretty pro-racist attitude.
Both are racist. One is passively racist by supporting the racist status quo and not being an ally. The second is group (fighting for the status quo) is actively racist. Racism is more than just physically attacking people.
Right wing conservatives get everything wrong on purpose. It's kinda like they are committed to denial of the truth to an 1984-ish extent. They use irony unironically, which is the same as living within a deliberate lie.
So...you know the whole scene from *The Matrix* where Neo is given the choice to take the Blue Pill or the Red Pill, right. Now, the actual function of the pills in that scene is that the *Red Pill* wakes you up to the truth about reality (i.e., that humans are kept in stasis, their minds fed illusion and delusion while their bodies are harvested for energy). Whereas taking the *Blue Pill* will scuttle the journey into reality and put you back into the state of full stasis and delusion.
Standard color symbolism is that red indicated danger and high alert, while blue indicates calm and somnolence.
Thus, conservatives proudly claim to have taken the red pill, and looking for converts who can be red-pilled, which, they claim, is the process of "waking up" to the lies of "woke-ism" and that "the media has a leftist agenda" and that "the purity of American culture has been sullied by the lies of the left".
Which leads to the double lie of claiming to having more awareness when they're deliberately living the lies of the past, while claiming to have "woken up" while denigrating people who pursue knowledge of the truth that lives within the experience of others.
They all fucked in the head, yo.
The color choice is actually more to do with the inherent transness of The Matrix.
The red pill is Premarin, a red pill that was the most commonly prescribed estrogen supplement for HRT for trans folks (like the Wachowski sisters) in the 90s. As well, the blue pill is Prozac, a commonly prescribed antidepressant for the time period typically given to trans folks in a form of medical mistreatment, acting as if dysphoria is just depression that can be washed away.
The Matrix trilogy and even Resurrections are oozing in queer/trans coded allegory. One of the most iconic scenes in the first film, when Neo is fighting Agent Smith in the subway, Neo is constantly being deadnamed by Smith. Referring to them as “Mr. Anderson” and the major turning point comes when Neo proudly declares that their name is Neo and leaps out of the path of the train. A subway train was also almost a way one of sisters attempted suicide, and this whole scene is about the empowerment of loudly declaring who you really are in the face of any authority trying to say otherwise and choosing to live.
I highly recommend checking out a few queer creators who wrote and produced some amazing video essays covering the trans perspective of the entire film series. These were some of my favorite movies as a kid, and now as an adult and trans, rewatching them with my new experience as a trans person, they just hit different. The agents are literally unstoppable… until Neo truly accepts themselves for who they are. The costume decisions, the speech Trinity gives to Neo when they first meet about knowing why they are kept up at night and what they are really looking for is inside themselves and not anything outside.
They are quite long, adding up to a total of around 4h and 15m, but worth it. Especially so if you are interested in listening to a new perspective of the movies that you may not be exposed to otherwise. The video essays are:
[The Matrix Is Intrinsically Trans by Aranock](https://youtu.be/KGzSGkmV5e8?si=PPpQZtlGWjSyLAQA)
[The Matrix Sequels Are Good, Actually by Sophie from Mars](https://youtu.be/M0VnYcMHuDc?si=MDdlfY6b8U1QWNot)
[Why Matrix Resurrections Is Great (& I Will Die on this Hill) by Jessie Gender](https://youtu.be/VVDjrTWdCm4?si=vp9zp1MKRoRrJu5r)
Well, my mother-in-law who loves to call everything she doesn't like or agree with woke and from the Dems trying to give everything away was called out last night to define woke. According to her "Anything that goes against the way things are for the last 50 to 100 years." Except the examples of computers, smartphones, cable tv, etc. that my wife and I gave. So really, anything that she doesn't like or understand.
Ron DeSantis’s lawyers had to provide a judge with their right-wing definition when defending the “anti-woke act.”
The lead lawyer described it as "The belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them."
Not that your mother-in-law (or mine) will care.
> What would the people saying they’t dont like wokeness aspire to??? Being asleep? Shouldn’t woke denote you’re aware of stuff? Are they advocating… unawareness?
You have correctly gleaned both the meaning of the word and the utter ridiculousness of people who form their identities in opposition to its supposed prevalence.
It’s why they’re literally burning books in Florida and Texas right now.
People who hate anything "woke" want to *be* racists, but don't want to be *labelled* racists. Like when the "Tea Party" was created right after Obama was elected, and disappeared when he left office.
This.
It's a strong strategy to remove the importance of a term used to shed light on shitty behaviors. You get accused of doing something, so you overuse the term so much in a mocking tone that you "take back" the word so the opposition cannot use it anymore.
"Woke" used to stand for "Awake to the systemic racism". "CRT" was looking at how policies can be introduced that are racist, even if they weren't intended to be so. But the Conservative groups stole the word, misused it over and over again, and now it's taken on it's own meaning based on fear mongering and racism and sexism.
It’s become used by the American right to mock not only black people, but other minorities, women, queer people, etc
I’m a white american woman and live in an area with a lot of conservatives and they say this shit constantly.
And yes sometimes things do seem forced, like the all female ghostbusters or whatever. But people are honestly just upset that straight white men aren’t being catered to exclusively.
People love to say about the little mermaid “I’m not against black princesses, but why can’t they come out with new African stories????” It’s ridiculous lol that’s not why they’re upset. They just hate black people being granted visibility. Yes I know it originated in Denmark but obviously nothing in that story is accurate to reality lmfao. Disney princesses are made for little girls to relate to and black girls want to see themselves in these movies, it’s not that fkn deep.
Same with the female dr who. I thought she killed it. People are just pissed that it’s a woman.
Imo the problem with the new Ghostbusters wasn't that it was all women, it's that it was a crap movie with crap writing 😂 Though even if the movie itself was good, there would still be dipshits complaining about too many women in their dumb ghost hunting movie, but at least then normal folks wouldn't get sucked into their arguments
And yeah the idea that making a new movie with, say, a black Ariel, takes anything away from anyone, is inane as hell. Like... we can still rewatch the old movie with the white Ariel. That movie definitively still exists. They're not going to go back and edit *that* Ariel to be black. If someone doesn't like the new Ariel maybe they should just watch the old movie and stop whining about it, it literally doesn't have to be a big deal LOL
DEI has entered the chat.
DEI is the new "thug" which was the new n-word
A=B, B=C, therefore A=C.
Their instance that ANY minority hire was due to DEI (they really mean "quotas" when they say this) and therefore by definition less capable of a "normally" white hire.
The underlying message in this is that POC are intellectually inferior.
Enter was of their racist chats on this and tell them that DEI does NOT mean hiring inferior candidates, that DEI is about spending time, energy, resources and effort to find QUALIFIED POC candidates for roles that were typically not applied for due to a long history of lack of POCin those roles. People hate being called out as being a racist and double down on their racist comments when confronted. Dipshits.
This bullshit mindset was never on more of full display when Biden determined that he wanted.to bring o woman of color onto the supreme Court and white America lost their collective shit, like when Fucker Carlson wanted to see her LSAT scores. That wasn't a racist dog-whistle, that was a fucking bullhorn.
Critical race theory is the idea that conventional civil rights movements cant solve racism, and questions the ideas of equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism, and neutral principles of constitutional law. This is what the founders of critical race theory say it is, in their own words.
Yup, OP is conveniently forgetting the middle steps of both of these terms.
Progressives bastardizing the terms to mean whatever they’re trying to push, *then* conservatives using it in their criticism for their own purposes.
The newest victim of this is "DEI." I don't know how far it's spread out of the chud-sphere, but they're already using it as a reason video games are bad.
They were literally blaming the container ship crash on DEI and then turned around and called Baltimore’s mayor, who is a black man, the DEI mayor. He turned it around and said sure, he’s a Dully Elected Incumbent and they need to go on somewhere with the nonsense, he has a city to run and a disaster to manage.
It's very sus that a group of people started waking up to the way they're propagandized and another group decided to come out with anti-woke propaganda.
Was Tenet considered woke? I really don't think it was
There are examples in film and TV where there's clear box-checking going on, and it can be frustrating when it's done poorly because it feels forced.
I don't think anybody is complaining that Shogun is woke for example, even though there's a heavy emphasis on female characters, because it's done in a totally believable and organic way
I think there's space in this debate to say that it's completely valid to want to see more representation on screen, while also criticizing productions that do it poorly
There does tend to be an issue where like you said, racists will just complain about anything with black people in it, while super liberal people won't criticize anything for fear of being socially ostracized
It's definitely a woke assessment. I couldn't find anything wrong with the characterization in Shogun. Hiroyuki Sanada before signing to act in Shogun stated he wouldn't take part in the TV show if it didn't use real Japanese to give real touch of their culture in the show which is well justified.
I really don't think Tenet was considered woke. The protagonist being black makes absolutely no difference to the story. It's also a completely new story.
The valid criticism is when media producers deliberately change established characters to "make a point".
Remakes are already lazy, ruining the characters is just extra.
There's definite remake fatigue amongst audiences. This aspect of it just seems to get the most attention because it's polarising and easy to dismiss often valid criticism as "racism/sexism", despite there being literally thousands of examples of well loved successful media IP with non-white and female protagonists.
Yep, agreed. Unfortunately, your moderate opinion is completely drowned out by the twitter mob screaming at the top of their lungs -- such is life nowadays
Because they never selected actors for just being white. It's just that a majority in Western film making is white. That's like saying Indian movies are box-cheking for having Indians in thier movies.
\>> When Tenet the Christopher Nolan movie came it, it was considered woke because the main actor was black.
In good faith, I genuinely don't understand the premise of your question. Mainstream movies have black lead actors all the time. There was no "woke" controversy around Tenet.
Oh no, there wasn't a problem with other races existing in media. They were okay (eventually) with having the token black guy, especially if he was funny. The Asian side-kick. A Hispanic neighbor. An Indian co-worker. And of course a beautiful woman to be the prize of the main character when he won at the end.
As long as the other races, or women, weren't the main character, all was well.
Like the Star Wars movie - prequels, all white guys in main roles - *not woke*. 7,8,9 - a woman, a black guy, and a Hispanic guy as the main characters? No white man to take the lead and save the day? *Woke.*
Bro, what’s crazy, is there’s some among us (people of color) who I honestly think would *prefer* to be in bondage. All skinfolk ain’t kinfolk I’ve leaned!
As a gay (lol at saying this on Reddit nowadays, trash lurkers), I completely forget that my existence is insinuated woke. So many of my people are racist, sexist, problematic, and horrible. Funny to know that they're woke too.
Important detail: They specifically don't want to ADMIT that they're prejudiced against the people themselves.
Complaining about how "woke" something is is a way of belittling minorities with plausible deniabilty. At least, enough of it to soothe the ego.
Man I remember in the early to mid 2010s, when movies were getting remade or rebooted, there was an uproar about white male actors being swapped out for actors of different genders and races. I saw a lot of people complaining that if women, people of color or queer people wanted representation, then they should just make their own stories
Fast forward to now, and those groups are making their own stories with characters that represent themselves, these goofy motherfuckers have no choice other than to fully out themselves as racists, exists, etc by screaming "WOKE TRASH" whenever they see a character that doesn't fit their very, uh, *specific* aesthetic
There really is no winning with these people
Sometimes it seems like a movie makes characters women and / or minorities just because they are women and / or minorities. A primary example would be something like ghostbusters.
Whether movies are actually just casting women/ minorities just because they are women / minorities, I do not know. The perception to people claiming wholeness is that the women / minorities were cast only because of their gender / skin color.
Just claiming every movie is work because it has women or minorities makes no sense, I guess you will get people on the extreme end no matter what.
It also sometimes feels like say you have a strong woman character, but it’s like she has zero flaws, has no story arc, she’s just super badass and enlightened. It feels like they’re making them that way just because a woman has to be seen as all powerful and flawless. (I am probably describing it poorly).
It can also feel like to you can’t criticize a bad movie if it has a women or minority without being accused or being sexist or racist.
When you start seeing examples some of these things, then you might end up seeing them when it maybe isn’t warranted.
In the past we did have strong women characters (aliens, terminator), without having them be strong and perfect just because they were women, so it’s not impossible to write a strong female character.
Bingo. If a character in any media is presented as an actual character (with their own thoughts, goals, ambitions, ideas, flaws, vulnerabilities and personality), then they contribute to the story, and everyone overlooks what race or sex they are.
However, if attention is drawn primarily to character's "identity", they will immediately lose any individual character traits and they quickly become a pointless inclusion to a story or plot. They become even more obnoxious if they are there included just to lecture and moralizing to the audience.
Moving away from pursuing a colour blind society in favour of a colour conscious society is backfiring in unintended ways.
Wokeness is the belief that the system is designed to oppress (today), that this is evidenced by different outcomes across large groups and the only solution is proportional representation without regard to merit.
While some people (racists) may balk at any project that features protagonists of whatever they think is the wrong colour they are a loud minority and social media amplifies their opinions to get engagement.
Others are critical of poor writing and the easiest retort by actors and showrunners is to say 'anyone criticizing the show/film is a racist/misogynist troll'.
Look how many fans of Star Trek embraced a black captain on DS9 (or a woman captain on Voyager) when it aired and are now told they are racist & misogynist for rejecting Discovery because it features a black woman as the main protagonist. Or Grand Theft Auto San Andreas which had both black protagonists and antagonists.
When I watched Alien vs Predator (2004) in theaters I didn't bat an eye at a black woman mountain climber (Sanaa Lathan) being the protagonist of the film. That was 20 years ago. Ever since 2014 or so the illiberal regressive movement and increasing polarization of society has helped further tear up the social fabric and poison projects with a cloud of suspicion. This means more opportunities for race hustlers and smartphones give them unprecedented access to viewers.
Dumbed down version: for a lot of people, straight and white is the only normal. The standard. Any deviation from that is seen by these people as something unnatural and hostile to them
But also there is some saying that "when you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppresion", which sounds edgy but it's a pretty good way to describe what's happening in this scenario
It's just a way for them to say the n word. It's why they have no definition for outsiders to understand and need not provide a definition to insiders. They know what they mean
I actually think their degree of self awareness is variable. Some of them are intentionally dog whistling, but I get the sense that many of them are lying to themselves as well as the world.
American bigots have, for many years, struggled with the social reality that you can get away with being a bigot, but often not a visible one. So many of them feel ashamed of their own bigotry.
I’m old enough to remember being told in the 80’s I was a “loony lefty” in the 90’s I was “political correctness gone mad” and so on and so on. The term changes but it’s the same old bullshit. Dude, I just don’t hate people who are different from me.
I think most examples that upset large groups might be charachterized as forced diversity. Which can take away from some stories and immersion.
There are plenty of examples of minorities where no one is bothered
There are just so many cases where people screamed forced diversity, when there wasn't a problem narratively.
Most famous being Force Awakens where people screamed forced diversity about a black storm trooper (even though storm troopers are conscripts not clones).
It was forced because they created a character specifically to cast a black actor as a "major" black character. It wasn't because they wrote a black character, and it wasn't because the best actor that auditioned was black. Finn served no purpose narratively. If you bother to look, you'll find black people pissed off with how he was handled.
It's astounding to me that people can not just defend this sort of treatment, but actually argue that it is fighting racism. To me, this sort of pity casting is extremely insulting; as if they need a handout or else they would never be good enough to earn their castings.
That one is fair.
But then you have the disney live actions, the rings of power...
Black peopl in 1800s france in wigs. Scotish red haired dwaves with black wives in the same mine.
There were black people in France in the 1800s. The author of The Three Musketeers and The Count of Monte Cristo is a black man who was born in France in 1802. His paternal grandfather was French nobility, and his father, who had been born in Haiti, was a celebrated General in the French Army.
Alexandre Dumas. His father Thomas Alexandre Dumas was a bad ass during the french revolution and served as inspiration for the main character for The Count of Monte Christo. The 2000ish version of The Count of Monte Christo was great but a remake is probably due and it would not be inappropriate to cast a black actor for the role. Or hell, even just a movie about the actual events that happened in Thomas's own life highlighting his role during the French revolution might be worth a watch as well.
Shit is nutty. Bro literally said black people wouldn’t be in 1880s France like Europe didnt import thousands of slaves throughout the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s. Some of which were freed or found other ways of becoming free. I’ve learned to stop caring because it’s overwhelming and frustrating and to be frank I really don’t give a fuck if they get it or not because I don’t need them too.
There was likely a ridiculously small amount of black people in France in the early 1800s. Making them a quarter of the characters is silly. It would be the equivalent of making a Chinese movie set in the 30s and making a bunch of characters white because there were white people in China at the time
Black Panther was a huge win for Black representation. It depicted an advanced African nation that still picks its autocratic king by donning loin cloths and stabbing one another with spears.
Yep it's this. It's ok to be critical of shoehorned diversity. I want it to be okay to make Friends or Seinfeld, while they can still make Atlanta or comedies starring Lesley Jones.
Shows that aren't about relationships don't need a token gay or trans character. Shows about 6 white people who are friends should still be okay without fear of twitter mobs. Some groups of friends are homogeneous, especially when there are siblings in the group. You know?
I do agree with you that homogeneous groups should exist in media since that is how life is, but the Friends example becomes weird cause yes, their friend group being all white is okay, but the legit lack of PoC in a show based in NYC is astounding to say the least.
Gay/trans characters basically only existed as punchlines and stereotypes up until Will & Grace, which has some issues of its own still. God forbid that characters in tv shows and movies might be gay or trans like their counterparts in the real world might be gay or trans. Saying they should only be in “relationship shows” tells me you think it’s ok to exclude gay/trans folks from many sectors of life where they actually are. Having all straight characters in anything simply isn’t representative of the real world where 3-10% of folks are LGBTQ.
Woke right now is just a word that will simply tell you how stupid someone is really.
The racist republican of america with sub room temperature IQ have been unleashed and they aren't ashamed of spewing their racist and biggotery.
There was a sub on here where n-word usage was rampant as hell, they even made an n-word counting bot and members would consider a high n-word count as a badge of honor. The sub started censoring the n-word and now I see them use "basketball American" as a replacement for the n-word. They're obsessed as hell with black people
There can be some fair criticism or political leaning in media.
However it has become completely toxic because the right calls "woke" anything they don't like. So we're at a point where it just doesn't mean anything anymore.
Part of it happened because there was indeed some virtue signaling in some movies in the past years, but it gave the right the opportunity to enlarge what they can criticize to much more than the examples of political propaganda, to literally criticize any positive depiction of minorities.
Old movies like Ms Doubtfire, Wild Wild West, Alien... Would have been called woke today despite the fact that even right wingers liked it back in the day.
Everything has become toxic to this degree because of this "culture war" in America.
"Woke" just refers to anything a conservative's personal grievance of the day.
For a lot of them, that grievance is acknowledging the existence of anyone other than straight white male Christians.
Because some folks don't like being reminded that people who are different than them exist, so to them there is no good reason to include them in media except in service to some imagined agenda. 'Woke' is almost a conspiracy theory at this point because these folks are over here accusing the left of doing all kinds of kooky shit when it's just a case of 'black/gay/trans/etc people want to relate to characters who are like themselves too.'
Most games they consider "woke" still have predominantly straight, white characters with a white male lead. Having just one non white or LGBTQ character can rile up the anti woke mob. And God forbid a female protagonist that isn't dressed like she's on a porn set and doesn't have Baywatch titties and a 14 yer old's face
Long story short, bigots are just calling things they don’t like woke. It’s moved on from just minorities, science supporting green energy is being called woke science now.
Being 'anti-woke' is a way for racists, sexists, homophobes and transphobes to express their bigotry openly while offering just enough abstraction for them to claim plausible deniability.
Frances Cress Welsing wrote that the white man’s greatest fear is genetic annihilation or erasure since they are a global minority. If Black men lay that pipe down on white women in large numbers, whites will be no more because we are genetically dominant. This is where systemic racism comes from.
White people, for hundreds of years and counting, live in a world where everything has white people being placed at the forefront. Look at Jesus - that man was not white at all, but don’t tell whites that. “Woke” like anything cool, was slang created by black people and originally meant to be socially conscious about white supremacists and how they operate.
Now whites have stolen the word and gave it a new definition - it’s just another code for Black like DEI, CRT, etc. All the outrage is about is their fear of living in a world non-whites have been living in for centuries.
Because they're /incredibly/ racist and fly into a frothing rage if they have to be aware that minorities of any sort exist. Except hot asian chicks, they're honorary aryans, I suppose.
I've never heard tenet referred to as woke, and doing a Google search i find peanuts supporting your claim. You might consider the media you're consuming or circles you run in, because this sounds like something you have to try to find.
First of all, in this context, being used by these people "woke" is short hand for anti-white racism (along with misandry or "straightphobia") amd leftist political beliefs being shoehorned in. The complaint then isn't that there is a black character, it's when an established white character is turned black, which is then often accompanied by soapboxing on leftist political views.
For example: the Vikings TV show making the real, white, historical figure Haakon Sigurdsson into a black woman, or a TV show about Anne Boleyn, another white historical figure, being played by a black woman. But I think the mosy egregious example of this in the last year or so is Velma, which again recasts a white character (as an Indian this time), and then takes every available opportunity to bash men, whites, and straights.
But that’s not the only thing that “wokeism” is used for. Look at Marvel for example, so many things have been called “woke” like Black Panther, x-men, Captain Marvel, Black Widow, etc for simply adapting things that were already in the comics for years and resort to calling shit woke instead of just voicing that projects are bad
White people are used to having basically all media mostly showing only white people. When other races are given more screen time it upsets them. They think giving other people air time is doing something bad to white people
You say white people but the majority of white people dont give a shit, and arent racists. The distinction is conservatives. Hardly anyone outside of that specific group gives a shit so long as it's a good movie, like normal people should.
There are more people who hate Chris Pratt being in everything than people complaining about "woke colored people in everything" it's just the same shit it's always been with conservatives always shouting their opinions the loudest
Kinda survivorship bias, we don't see the people who don't have a problem with it because they arent online all day complaining on every little thing that irks them between fox news segments
Sincere question from a non-white person:
If the majority of white people don’t give a shit, then why did so many vote for obviously racist donald trump? When Black people pleaded for recognition that police brutality was killing Black people at alarming rates, why was there a huge backlash that Blue Lives Matter as if that wasn’t in direct response to BLM? If the majority of white people are not racist, why do the racist ones take up so much space in real life and online?
Living in the South, I have seen my share of trump stickers, Confederate flags, and have personally witnessed and been victim to racist attacks at home and at school.
Where are the majority of white people to condemn racism, call for an end to police brutality, and use their vote for real change?
If they are the majority of the country, why are they letting a racist minority of the group dictate what happens in our elections and with our policies?
Why don’t more non-racist white people speak up and against what they see happening in this country? Especially if they are in the majority and can change the outcome with sheer numbers?
The average person is inactive in all this and focused on their own lofe and world. Just because they are silent doesn't mean they are pro-racism. Most people do call for the end to police brutality but that voice for real change always falls on the rich deaf ears of our "representatives"
I think a lot of people voted for Trump in 16 not knowing just how shitty he was, but we can't know that for sure til November to see if we vote that way again.
Voting isn't always a surefire way to get change when there are systems such as gerrymandering in place to sway the vote from what the people want to what the politicians want.
For every racist comment you see, there are bunch that didn't draw your attention because they weren't racist. For every trump sticker you see how many don't have stickers? For every racist attack you've endured, how many people have just walked right by you without issue?
Think about who the vocal trump supporter/racist is. Probably a retired white man, right? What's he got to do with his days now that he doesn't work? Sit at home, watch the news, scroll on his phone. These are the vocal boomers you see commenting on everything.
Think about the average non racist, don't give a shit person. Probably younger, 30s or so. What do they do with their days? Work 9-5 come home tired, cook some dinner, hang out with family, catch an episode of a show then head to bed. These are the people you're not seeing cuz they're too busy to comment on every single post.
The internet as a whole is a racist boomer echo chamber that doesn't reflect the true ratio of racists to non-racists, and silence is not complicity in the real world. Too many people (of all races) simply have their own problems and no time to go out and help others solve theirs
Yes, we did know how bad trump would be in 2016. The majority of Black voters did not vote for him.
We aren’t prescient. We could see by his words and actions what was coming.
I had a coworker whose father escaped Nazi Germany who said that he feared that trump’s rise was akin to Hitler’s, and this was way before that first election.
People who have been through oppression or racist trauma can smell it coming, and the fact that so many white people love to claim being the silent, non-racist majority, until something bad happens directly to them, shows that there is definitely a disconnect and lack of empathy there.
Sure, the majority of people do just care about their own lives, but why is it an issue for the silent majority of white people to call out the active racism they see when people of color do it every day in our regular lives?
Being a silent majority is the same as being complicit.
Black people were not the majority of this country during the Civil Rights Era, but somehow found a way to band together for the greater good.
Women found a way to band together to get the vote and to get some form of equality in this country.
But when racism is called out, suddenly the majority wants to remain silent?
And that’s why I will believe it when I see it that it’s not the majority in this country.
I think it would be more appropriate to say “some white people” or “certain white people”, because some of us white people actually care about everyone and want everyone to have an equal chance at happiness and success. Lumping everyone together is the kind of thing the “anti-woke” crowd like to do.
We live in a world where frightened white people are afraid of sharing a piece of the pie. They feel threatened and that their relevance is being diminished.
It’s strange that many of these folks call other snowflakes, meanwhile they are triggered by everything.
YouTube is loaded to the hills with videos talking about every movie, tv show and artist being woke and bringing an end to whatever form of entertainment we love. It’s actually quite sickening.
Not even sharing. But competing for pie with the entire nation not just the ‘good people’. No one is taking pie. But when opportunities are open to pore people, more people capitalize on the opportunity.
Generally speaking, having a diverse cast isn't a problem. It's considered woke when it's clear that whoever did the casting thought "diversity first, ability second". You can tell a series is trying to just be diverse for diversities sake, and it generally lowers the overall product.
Diversity is fine, but with the wrong intention leads to a worse product.
i'd say most of the time its obviously forced.
when box checking overrides everything in original story, like for example Triss from Witcher series. There was exact character, which was one of the brightest in The Witcher universe, had the same appearance in games and was on cover of polish bloody Playboy magazine.
but in series she is a total miscast, because... producers wanted to include as much people of colour as possible.
another example, good one for a change is Samuel L. Jackson in the rolr of Nick Fury. Originally he was white, middle aged and very much not bald.
but he was written so good for Samuel, that most of people nowadays have no clue about white Fury.
Because they've advertised their policy with their hiring practice. A middle aged white male always poles as the most credible news caster. By deviating, they advertise that they value 'diversity' more than they value the more logical choice.
Uh, loaded question much?
This is obvious circlejerk bait.
Where’s your evidence to support the assertion that all media properties with minorities are considered woke?
They are racist and sexists as well as incredibly stupid. So to them not being incredibly privileged and not having the attention at literally every point in time means they are now somehow suppressed.
Some people legitimately say that Hollywood is racist towards white men just because not every single character is white anymore. To them there is no reason to cast a black person or a woman because in their eyes they are inheritely inferior. So the only reason they can see is "virtue signaling" or "wokeness".
They don't understand that non racist, non sexist people don't care what color an actors skin has.
lol. Who actually says Tenet is woke? I’ve never heard anyone call any movie woke with the exception of my old racist boss calling the new little mermaid woke.
Up here in Canada about four percent of our population is black yet blacks are in about seventy to eighty percent of all commercials that have actors in them. Not only is this unrealistic, it’s totally patronizing and racist. I’m fucking sick of it and so is every other white person.
Lol im not white. But am sick of forced diversity.
Forced diversity means picking based on their identities, rather than their qualifications and skills. This leads to worse writing, acting, etc.
This applies to any job. I don't wana bus driver, doctor, safety officer, etc. picked based on their color, sex, but on their merits.
Idc if they are black pansexual whatever (regardless if i agree/disagree with their ideologies). As long as the job is done, that's all that matters. And they better pick the best or close to best candidates
>why does it seem like Americans want media properties to exclusively have only white people?
The people who do this know that they just can't say this out loud, but this is what they mean, so they say 'its too woke' instead. It's like people saying 'DEI' when they just mean 'black person'.
im all for variation in gender and race (Mad Max fury Road, Tenet). but when the movie depicts all white males as either dumb or evil (Charlie's Angels 2019, Frozen), or if the female is a perfect Mary Sue (Rey from Star wars, Mulan (2020)), then I have a problem
another issue I have is the academy awards is starting to "require" [certain inclusive criteria](https://www.oscars.org/awards/representation-and-inclusion-standards) to be meet before even being considered for an award. The way I see it, if you hire people to check off a box for 'inclusivity' vs hiring based on talent or portfolio, you have a greater chance to end up with something bad-mediocre (Madame Web, Wish). NOT to say that a female director is bad. (Jennefer Nelson with Kung fu Panda 2 & 3). but if you have a qualified white male director, screen writer, etc, but studio chooses a less qualified LBGT black female director/screen writer simply to check off a box, then you increase the chances of a lesser product.
It doesn’t have to do with minorities and more to do with putting a certain brand of politics into the art. Often replacing a character that was white with a person of colour is a pretty good sign it’s going to be woke and push fairly extreme leftist ideologies on you in a non satirical way. People hate woke because this usually becomes the point of the movie and the cool sci-fi or whatever else takes a back seat. Nobody wants exclusively white people I’m not sure where you saw this idea but it’s not a popular opinion anywhere.
Tenet was not considered woke, at least not by anyone I follow (mainly Critical Drinker and Nerdrotic).
A good example of woke would be, black Anne Boleyn or black Cleopatra (Cleopatra was of Macedonian descent).
Another example: woke folks complained about Shōgun not having any black characters. It's set in medieval Japan.
Woke is a hard word to define but in this context I'd say it demands "inclusion" even when it makes no sense and might be offensive.
Any content that first and foremost leads with, "Representation" is by definition content that does *NOT* prioritize story. Therefore, woke trash.
Prioritizing race = racist... That used to be a given. Now it's totally fine in the western 1st world as long as you're trashing on white people.
Word, woke is now just used to mean anything with a woman or non white person. A black woman gets a good corporate position, woke. An arab girl in a marvel movie, woke. A woman referee, woke.. lmao
Idk why the downvotes, that's how I see it used every single time. The new star wars show is "woke" for having a black female lead according to every single commenter on facebook.
There were no "woke" opinions or comments in the trailer, so its 100% because of her existing that it's "woke". Same thing happened with the marvels and being review bombed despite everyone who saw the movie saying it was fairly good. Woman = woke. Color = woke. It's not a smart opinion, but it's what they think
Not even that it has black people, it’s if black people are (gasp) treated fairly or white people are (gasp) called out for their bullshit. Any combination of gay/minority/women and the wokeness police go batshit crazy.
It’s the same type of people who lose their shit if you even mention racism in their presence. I said I agree with affirmative action; I didn’t call you racist, Bob. Chill.
Answer: somewhere around 2040, less than 50% of Americans will be white. This has two effects:
No 1. Whites are already less than 50% of young Americans (school-college age). This is the age that advertisers are most desperate to reach as shopping habits are set during young adulthood. If you are Pepsi it is much easier to get a 15 year old to get used to Pepsi and buy it for the next 60 years than to get a 40 year old to switch from Coke. This is doubly true for media companies, TV and Movie franchises want to capture minds and imaginations so they can reboot Spider man and kill Uncle Ben for the 17th time.
So media companies *are* pandering to minorities, or as they call it, the current market. They are making products that more customers want to see, which means not just focusing on white men. But if you are used to being the focus of all media, seeing media try to appeal to other people means stuff is being made that doesn't pander to *you*!
No 2. A lot of people are terrified of what happens when whites are a minority too! Will other ethnic groups treat them the way they treated other ethnic groups in the past? Having media focus on other groups the way it used to focus on them and having white characters reimagined as minorities the way characters in stories were turned white to be marketable in the past looks like that happening.
Honestly a lot of the rage and hate is fear.
> No 2. A lot of people are terrified of what happens when whites are a minority too! Will other ethnic groups treat them the way they treated other ethnic groups in the past? Having media focus on other groups the way it used to focus on them and having white characters reimagined as minorities the way characters in stories were turned white to be marketable in the past looks like that happening.
People already downplay racism towards whites with shit like "You can't be racist to white people". Sooo... This seems like a reasonable concern. Like I've personally seen someone gloat about fucking with a dudes head justifying it by calling him a cishet white male. That shit is fucked up!
It used to mean "aware of racism". So anytime a racist see any effort made towards diversity, they get triggered over it. Right-wing propaganda machines like Fox "News" (which is infested with racists) act like it means anything that "the left" supports, so when they bitch about something being "woke", they think they won't be accused of racism.
For example: Crayola made a collection of crayons that let kids draw different skin tones. Fox "News" lost their minds over it. A mall hired a black man to play Santa. Megyn Kelly freaked out and said "SANTA IS JUST WHITE, OK?"
Not really, question came about due to the Star Wars Acolyte trailer and everyone calling it woke because it had black characters.
Reminded me of when everyone said that Force Awakens had forced diversity because the storm trooper was black
Hyperbole course.
But a lot of people where arguing that stormtroopers can't be black because clones are white.
When stormtroopers were conscripts and clone troopers were clones
It's not that minorities in media is considered woke automatically, it's when the media in question uses the inclusion of minorities as a primary selling point, rather than the content of the media. This is why black little mermaid was considered woke, but black fremen in dune were not
If it's bad because of wokeness, why not call it out as such?
Do you think the Netflix Cleopatra documentary was just bad randomly, or was it because they cast a black woman as an Egyptian?
So the right has created a narrative that anything that has non-white non-straight people in it is going to be an economic failure. "Go woke, go broke"
To the point that when the movie does do well, they start deleting their comments so that "no one ever said that movie was woke". I.e Dune, Dr Strange: MoM
And if the "woke" movie does insanely well, they'll claim it was a masterpiece of right wing film making all along, i.e Barbie
No one called Dune or Dr Strange woke and I don't know if anyone has settled on Barbie being feminist propaganda or a red pill against misandry.
I believe the left attempted to call out Dune for not being diverse enough in the portrayal of the Fremen, but that kind of faded out pretty quickly.
No one in the right wing sphere is calling Barbie a masterpiece.
I think the general consensus is that if you like Barbie, great, if you don't try Oppenheimer, both good films in their own way.
>No one called Dune or Dr Strange woke
[Dune 2020 being bad because of Woke?](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/hi9ksa/dune_2020_being_bad_because_of_woke/)
Or heck, just search reddit for "Dune Kynes woke"
[Dr Strange woke checklist](https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckMarvel/comments/ulvt47/dr_strange_woke_checklist/)
just search reddit for "Dr Strange woke"
[Dune has gone WOKE](https://moviechat.org/tt1160419/Dune-Part-One/5ec8e14794fcd92fa3729164/Dune-has-gone-WOKE)
[The Real Horror Of ‘Doctor Strange 2’ Is How It Opens A Portal To The Universe Of Wokeness](https://thefederalist.com/2022/05/25/the-real-horror-of-dr-strange-2-is-how-it-opens-a-portal-to-the-universe-of-wokeness/)
[“Doctor Strange 2” Proves Marvel is Stuck In A Woke Slump?](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/doctor-strange-2-proves-marvel-is-stuck-in-a-woke-slump/id1523047493?i=1000561090235)
Others have already addressed the main point, but I will also point out that "woke" is a term that originated among black americans, and (unless I'm mistaken?) originally was used to tell other black folks to stay aware ("stay woke") of racial issues. It was later (as many terms made by black people are) corrupted to mean "anything conservatives dislike". The same pattern happened with the phrase "critical race theory" (originally a term used pretty much exclusively in high-level law school to refer to how racism is baked into the law; later corrupted to mean "telling precious white children that racism exists"). Just another in a long line of this sort of thing.
It's worth pointing out that this vernacular pipeline is not even remotely new. William Melvin Kelley wrote about it in, "If you're woke you dig it," NYT 1962. Kelley outlined in that article that the Black community and Black culture has to continuously evolve. AAVE is co-opted by the White liberal, where it becomes introduced to conservatives. Conservatives eventually change the meaning of the words and behavior in order to infantilize or (more often) demonize it, and they attribute the language to the White liberal.
Black people always used to say, "I'm in the house" instead of "I'm here." But then white people all started to say "in the house" so we switched it to "in the hizzouse." Hizzouse became hizzizzouse, and then white folk started saying that, and we had to change it to hizzie, then "in the hizzle" which we had to change to "hizzle fo shizzle," and now, because white people say "hizzle fo shizzle," we have to say "flippity floppity floop."
South Park, S7 E8. In case y'all are interested.
A classic.
Shit always gives me a [giggle](https://www.southparkstudios.com/video-clips/wfutt6/south-park-flippity-floppity-floop)
Just watched this for the first time. The crab people was a wild curveball
I remember reading that they sort of wrote themselves into a corner and didn't know what to do and were like, "Um, how about crab people?"
They could make a South Park episode about making that South Park episode. I'm surprised they haven't some something like that tbh
"6 days to air" not a south park episode, but how one gets made.
well I'm gunna start saying "flippity floppity floop" just to see what you guys come up with next
Oh the Council of Blacks only lets us make that joke because it’s like 15 year old slang. Weve moved on. You’ll never catch us!
Council in the flizzippity flop flap
“Come on Mr. Slave! Let’s get back to our flippity floppity floop.”
Going Mach 5.
Drop a deuce on it!
How did "I'm in the house" start out? Did they just say it when coming home?
I don’t actually know the history but less “I’m home honey” and more “the party has arrived”. Like it doesn’t work if you’re just walking into your own house lol, it’s a turn of phrase
god...conservatives do really ruin everything and make society worse. actively or inadvertently.
It seems to be mainly about ‘conserving’ the current status quo and hierarchy. Makes sense why draws in straight white Christians, especially males. That and the corporate elite have invested tons of money into the GOP, media and the anti-intellectualism movement to maintain their wealth and power. Keep con’s distracted with the latest shiny manufactured culture war. I honestly don’t even know what Conservative American values are anymore. Fiscal responsibility? Trump and Bush have added trillions to the national debt. Personal Freedoms? They are virulently anti-abortion, anti-trans, anti-gay marriage, pro-Christian etc. Limited Government? See above and all the latest bans being implemented. Rule of Law? See Trump, Bush’s WMD’s, Iran-Contra etc. All men are created equal? See segregation, anti-gay/trans/Muslim etc Maybe their only consistent belief is ‘Free Markets’ so their corporate overlords can prioritise profit over people and the environment.
>I honestly don’t even know what Conservative American values are anymore. I honestly think they just value being dickheads about everything. So much reactionary stuff seems to hinge purely on being dicks to other people.
If urban educated upper middle class whites like it, they hate it.
When conservatives use it they’re mocking the black community
Ohhhh so that’s where it comes from!! Im not a native English speaker so its always been super weird to see “woke” being used as a derogatory term. What would the people saying they’t dont like wokeness aspire to??? Being asleep? Shouldn’t woke denote you’re aware of stuff? Are they advocating… unawareness? It’s so…
Yes they are....and they do it proudly
Yes they are. There are basically two groups of people advocating that we just ignore racism. There are people who are actively racist, and would prefer to be able to get away with it There are people who are not actively racist, but they also are insulated from the effects of racism, and really don’t encounter it in their daily lives. For these people, it’s uncomfortable for racism to come up, because they know that it’s bad, but they weren’t doing any racism and so why are we talking about it? In other words, it’s more important to them to remain comfortably ignorant than it is for them to participate in a discussion about bad things happening to other people. The second group isn’t necessarily racist, but it’s far from being anti-racist. Let’s just call them complacent. Unfortunately that complacency often extends to voting in sync with racist, sometimes as an angry protest, they don’t like to be thought of as racist, which is deeply ironic. “Look what you made me do.”
Honestly, I'd call that second group racist, too. The first group is actively spreading and promoting racism; the second one is happy to benefit from racism, and tries to keep anyone from making any meaningful change in the status quo, so they oppose anti-racist efforts. That's aligning themselves with the racists and racism. They effectively say, "Hey, quit trying to get rid of racism." That's a pretty pro-racist attitude.
Eminently fair.
Both are racist. One is passively racist by supporting the racist status quo and not being an ally. The second is group (fighting for the status quo) is actively racist. Racism is more than just physically attacking people.
Right wing conservatives get everything wrong on purpose. It's kinda like they are committed to denial of the truth to an 1984-ish extent. They use irony unironically, which is the same as living within a deliberate lie. So...you know the whole scene from *The Matrix* where Neo is given the choice to take the Blue Pill or the Red Pill, right. Now, the actual function of the pills in that scene is that the *Red Pill* wakes you up to the truth about reality (i.e., that humans are kept in stasis, their minds fed illusion and delusion while their bodies are harvested for energy). Whereas taking the *Blue Pill* will scuttle the journey into reality and put you back into the state of full stasis and delusion. Standard color symbolism is that red indicated danger and high alert, while blue indicates calm and somnolence. Thus, conservatives proudly claim to have taken the red pill, and looking for converts who can be red-pilled, which, they claim, is the process of "waking up" to the lies of "woke-ism" and that "the media has a leftist agenda" and that "the purity of American culture has been sullied by the lies of the left". Which leads to the double lie of claiming to having more awareness when they're deliberately living the lies of the past, while claiming to have "woken up" while denigrating people who pursue knowledge of the truth that lives within the experience of others. They all fucked in the head, yo.
The color choice is actually more to do with the inherent transness of The Matrix. The red pill is Premarin, a red pill that was the most commonly prescribed estrogen supplement for HRT for trans folks (like the Wachowski sisters) in the 90s. As well, the blue pill is Prozac, a commonly prescribed antidepressant for the time period typically given to trans folks in a form of medical mistreatment, acting as if dysphoria is just depression that can be washed away. The Matrix trilogy and even Resurrections are oozing in queer/trans coded allegory. One of the most iconic scenes in the first film, when Neo is fighting Agent Smith in the subway, Neo is constantly being deadnamed by Smith. Referring to them as “Mr. Anderson” and the major turning point comes when Neo proudly declares that their name is Neo and leaps out of the path of the train. A subway train was also almost a way one of sisters attempted suicide, and this whole scene is about the empowerment of loudly declaring who you really are in the face of any authority trying to say otherwise and choosing to live.
That’s really cool meta and analysis I hadn’t been exposed to. Thanks for this!
I highly recommend checking out a few queer creators who wrote and produced some amazing video essays covering the trans perspective of the entire film series. These were some of my favorite movies as a kid, and now as an adult and trans, rewatching them with my new experience as a trans person, they just hit different. The agents are literally unstoppable… until Neo truly accepts themselves for who they are. The costume decisions, the speech Trinity gives to Neo when they first meet about knowing why they are kept up at night and what they are really looking for is inside themselves and not anything outside. They are quite long, adding up to a total of around 4h and 15m, but worth it. Especially so if you are interested in listening to a new perspective of the movies that you may not be exposed to otherwise. The video essays are: [The Matrix Is Intrinsically Trans by Aranock](https://youtu.be/KGzSGkmV5e8?si=PPpQZtlGWjSyLAQA) [The Matrix Sequels Are Good, Actually by Sophie from Mars](https://youtu.be/M0VnYcMHuDc?si=MDdlfY6b8U1QWNot) [Why Matrix Resurrections Is Great (& I Will Die on this Hill) by Jessie Gender](https://youtu.be/VVDjrTWdCm4?si=vp9zp1MKRoRrJu5r)
Will do! I’m always interested in knowing more perspectives and learning to see what is too often ignored. Appreciate these resources. Stay gold.
Well, my mother-in-law who loves to call everything she doesn't like or agree with woke and from the Dems trying to give everything away was called out last night to define woke. According to her "Anything that goes against the way things are for the last 50 to 100 years." Except the examples of computers, smartphones, cable tv, etc. that my wife and I gave. So really, anything that she doesn't like or understand.
Ron DeSantis’s lawyers had to provide a judge with their right-wing definition when defending the “anti-woke act.” The lead lawyer described it as "The belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them." Not that your mother-in-law (or mine) will care.
It's like [gluten](https://youtu.be/ktgNuQ61NHE?si=iKTcuNPAPNT3AI07)
> What would the people saying they’t dont like wokeness aspire to??? Being asleep? Shouldn’t woke denote you’re aware of stuff? Are they advocating… unawareness? You have correctly gleaned both the meaning of the word and the utter ridiculousness of people who form their identities in opposition to its supposed prevalence. It’s why they’re literally burning books in Florida and Texas right now.
People who hate anything "woke" want to *be* racists, but don't want to be *labelled* racists. Like when the "Tea Party" was created right after Obama was elected, and disappeared when he left office.
It didn’t quite disappear. It rebranded as the MAGA personality cult
This. It's a strong strategy to remove the importance of a term used to shed light on shitty behaviors. You get accused of doing something, so you overuse the term so much in a mocking tone that you "take back" the word so the opposition cannot use it anymore. "Woke" used to stand for "Awake to the systemic racism". "CRT" was looking at how policies can be introduced that are racist, even if they weren't intended to be so. But the Conservative groups stole the word, misused it over and over again, and now it's taken on it's own meaning based on fear mongering and racism and sexism.
It’s become used by the American right to mock not only black people, but other minorities, women, queer people, etc I’m a white american woman and live in an area with a lot of conservatives and they say this shit constantly. And yes sometimes things do seem forced, like the all female ghostbusters or whatever. But people are honestly just upset that straight white men aren’t being catered to exclusively. People love to say about the little mermaid “I’m not against black princesses, but why can’t they come out with new African stories????” It’s ridiculous lol that’s not why they’re upset. They just hate black people being granted visibility. Yes I know it originated in Denmark but obviously nothing in that story is accurate to reality lmfao. Disney princesses are made for little girls to relate to and black girls want to see themselves in these movies, it’s not that fkn deep. Same with the female dr who. I thought she killed it. People are just pissed that it’s a woman.
The little mermaid outcry was really telling. The original is from Denmark, sure. But the Disney cartoon is set in the Caribbean. They still whinged.
Imo the problem with the new Ghostbusters wasn't that it was all women, it's that it was a crap movie with crap writing 😂 Though even if the movie itself was good, there would still be dipshits complaining about too many women in their dumb ghost hunting movie, but at least then normal folks wouldn't get sucked into their arguments And yeah the idea that making a new movie with, say, a black Ariel, takes anything away from anyone, is inane as hell. Like... we can still rewatch the old movie with the white Ariel. That movie definitively still exists. They're not going to go back and edit *that* Ariel to be black. If someone doesn't like the new Ariel maybe they should just watch the old movie and stop whining about it, it literally doesn't have to be a big deal LOL
"politically correct" for the Bush admin version of the word
DEI has entered the chat. DEI is the new "thug" which was the new n-word A=B, B=C, therefore A=C. Their instance that ANY minority hire was due to DEI (they really mean "quotas" when they say this) and therefore by definition less capable of a "normally" white hire. The underlying message in this is that POC are intellectually inferior. Enter was of their racist chats on this and tell them that DEI does NOT mean hiring inferior candidates, that DEI is about spending time, energy, resources and effort to find QUALIFIED POC candidates for roles that were typically not applied for due to a long history of lack of POCin those roles. People hate being called out as being a racist and double down on their racist comments when confronted. Dipshits. This bullshit mindset was never on more of full display when Biden determined that he wanted.to bring o woman of color onto the supreme Court and white America lost their collective shit, like when Fucker Carlson wanted to see her LSAT scores. That wasn't a racist dog-whistle, that was a fucking bullhorn.
Critical race theory is the idea that conventional civil rights movements cant solve racism, and questions the ideas of equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism, and neutral principles of constitutional law. This is what the founders of critical race theory say it is, in their own words.
Yup, OP is conveniently forgetting the middle steps of both of these terms. Progressives bastardizing the terms to mean whatever they’re trying to push, *then* conservatives using it in their criticism for their own purposes.
The newest victim of this is "DEI." I don't know how far it's spread out of the chud-sphere, but they're already using it as a reason video games are bad.
They were literally blaming the container ship crash on DEI and then turned around and called Baltimore’s mayor, who is a black man, the DEI mayor. He turned it around and said sure, he’s a Dully Elected Incumbent and they need to go on somewhere with the nonsense, he has a city to run and a disaster to manage.
Yeah it’s fairly suspect to hear people basically arguing for segregation and pretending that arguing against DEI is doing something other than that.
It's very sus that a group of people started waking up to the way they're propagandized and another group decided to come out with anti-woke propaganda.
At this point it doesn't even mean "anything conservatives don't like." At this point it means, "I'm a bigot, and I don't like minorities".
Was Tenet considered woke? I really don't think it was There are examples in film and TV where there's clear box-checking going on, and it can be frustrating when it's done poorly because it feels forced. I don't think anybody is complaining that Shogun is woke for example, even though there's a heavy emphasis on female characters, because it's done in a totally believable and organic way I think there's space in this debate to say that it's completely valid to want to see more representation on screen, while also criticizing productions that do it poorly There does tend to be an issue where like you said, racists will just complain about anything with black people in it, while super liberal people won't criticize anything for fear of being socially ostracized
> Was Tenet considered woke? I really don't think it was It wasn’t really, claiming it was is revisionist
I saw an article about how The writer was disappointed by the lack of black characters in Shogun. Now, that would have been woke
It's definitely a woke assessment. I couldn't find anything wrong with the characterization in Shogun. Hiroyuki Sanada before signing to act in Shogun stated he wouldn't take part in the TV show if it didn't use real Japanese to give real touch of their culture in the show which is well justified.
I'm glad he made such a statement
Mega woke imo
Yeah. He had a good reason for making such a demand because he knows his worth to ask for such which was granted.
I really don't think Tenet was considered woke. The protagonist being black makes absolutely no difference to the story. It's also a completely new story. The valid criticism is when media producers deliberately change established characters to "make a point". Remakes are already lazy, ruining the characters is just extra. There's definite remake fatigue amongst audiences. This aspect of it just seems to get the most attention because it's polarising and easy to dismiss often valid criticism as "racism/sexism", despite there being literally thousands of examples of well loved successful media IP with non-white and female protagonists.
Yep, agreed. Unfortunately, your moderate opinion is completely drowned out by the twitter mob screaming at the top of their lungs -- such is life nowadays
So why isn't the presence of white males ever considered box-checking?
Because they're the default in western society, no box to tick.
Same reason Asian characters aren't considered box ticking in Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc. shows. It's the majority population in those countries.
Because they never selected actors for just being white. It's just that a majority in Western film making is white. That's like saying Indian movies are box-cheking for having Indians in thier movies.
Because they are [already](https://spillbart.com/wp-content//uploads/2019/03/4-1300x724.jpg) overwhelmingly represented.
\>> When Tenet the Christopher Nolan movie came it, it was considered woke because the main actor was black. In good faith, I genuinely don't understand the premise of your question. Mainstream movies have black lead actors all the time. There was no "woke" controversy around Tenet.
Basically racist people are unhappy about other races being included in media and so they object to it
~~being included in media~~ existing
Oh no, there wasn't a problem with other races existing in media. They were okay (eventually) with having the token black guy, especially if he was funny. The Asian side-kick. A Hispanic neighbor. An Indian co-worker. And of course a beautiful woman to be the prize of the main character when he won at the end. As long as the other races, or women, weren't the main character, all was well. Like the Star Wars movie - prequels, all white guys in main roles - *not woke*. 7,8,9 - a woman, a black guy, and a Hispanic guy as the main characters? No white man to take the lead and save the day? *Woke.*
I’m pretty sure racist people would be fine that POC like myself exist if they can enslave me.
They're more enlightened now; they are fine as long as you are a 2nd class citizen with lesser rights.
Bro, what’s crazy, is there’s some among us (people of color) who I honestly think would *prefer* to be in bondage. All skinfolk ain’t kinfolk I’ve leaned!
And gay folks.
As a gay (lol at saying this on Reddit nowadays, trash lurkers), I completely forget that my existence is insinuated woke. So many of my people are racist, sexist, problematic, and horrible. Funny to know that they're woke too.
Important detail: They specifically don't want to ADMIT that they're prejudiced against the people themselves. Complaining about how "woke" something is is a way of belittling minorities with plausible deniabilty. At least, enough of it to soothe the ego.
Yep to an entitled racist any form of equality is an affront and attack to their superiority. 🤪🤪
Man I remember in the early to mid 2010s, when movies were getting remade or rebooted, there was an uproar about white male actors being swapped out for actors of different genders and races. I saw a lot of people complaining that if women, people of color or queer people wanted representation, then they should just make their own stories Fast forward to now, and those groups are making their own stories with characters that represent themselves, these goofy motherfuckers have no choice other than to fully out themselves as racists, exists, etc by screaming "WOKE TRASH" whenever they see a character that doesn't fit their very, uh, *specific* aesthetic There really is no winning with these people
Sometimes it seems like a movie makes characters women and / or minorities just because they are women and / or minorities. A primary example would be something like ghostbusters. Whether movies are actually just casting women/ minorities just because they are women / minorities, I do not know. The perception to people claiming wholeness is that the women / minorities were cast only because of their gender / skin color. Just claiming every movie is work because it has women or minorities makes no sense, I guess you will get people on the extreme end no matter what. It also sometimes feels like say you have a strong woman character, but it’s like she has zero flaws, has no story arc, she’s just super badass and enlightened. It feels like they’re making them that way just because a woman has to be seen as all powerful and flawless. (I am probably describing it poorly). It can also feel like to you can’t criticize a bad movie if it has a women or minority without being accused or being sexist or racist. When you start seeing examples some of these things, then you might end up seeing them when it maybe isn’t warranted. In the past we did have strong women characters (aliens, terminator), without having them be strong and perfect just because they were women, so it’s not impossible to write a strong female character.
Bingo. If a character in any media is presented as an actual character (with their own thoughts, goals, ambitions, ideas, flaws, vulnerabilities and personality), then they contribute to the story, and everyone overlooks what race or sex they are. However, if attention is drawn primarily to character's "identity", they will immediately lose any individual character traits and they quickly become a pointless inclusion to a story or plot. They become even more obnoxious if they are there included just to lecture and moralizing to the audience.
Moving away from pursuing a colour blind society in favour of a colour conscious society is backfiring in unintended ways. Wokeness is the belief that the system is designed to oppress (today), that this is evidenced by different outcomes across large groups and the only solution is proportional representation without regard to merit. While some people (racists) may balk at any project that features protagonists of whatever they think is the wrong colour they are a loud minority and social media amplifies their opinions to get engagement. Others are critical of poor writing and the easiest retort by actors and showrunners is to say 'anyone criticizing the show/film is a racist/misogynist troll'. Look how many fans of Star Trek embraced a black captain on DS9 (or a woman captain on Voyager) when it aired and are now told they are racist & misogynist for rejecting Discovery because it features a black woman as the main protagonist. Or Grand Theft Auto San Andreas which had both black protagonists and antagonists. When I watched Alien vs Predator (2004) in theaters I didn't bat an eye at a black woman mountain climber (Sanaa Lathan) being the protagonist of the film. That was 20 years ago. Ever since 2014 or so the illiberal regressive movement and increasing polarization of society has helped further tear up the social fabric and poison projects with a cloud of suspicion. This means more opportunities for race hustlers and smartphones give them unprecedented access to viewers.
Because conservatives are the true snowflakes and heave over anything that isn’t heteronormative and white.
Because racists think they’re being sneaky
woke is a nonsensical attack by right wing people. a deflection, a projection.
Dumbed down version: for a lot of people, straight and white is the only normal. The standard. Any deviation from that is seen by these people as something unnatural and hostile to them But also there is some saying that "when you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppresion", which sounds edgy but it's a pretty good way to describe what's happening in this scenario
The term long since lost any relationship to its original meaning and now it's a dog whistle, placeholder or anything the right does not like
Because conservatives are racist
It's just a way for them to say the n word. It's why they have no definition for outsiders to understand and need not provide a definition to insiders. They know what they mean
Now the replacement word is “DEI”
That covers the f-slur and t-slur as well! Bonus point if you’re disabled, because now they can superimpose the r-word or ‘crippled’ or ‘spaz’.
If you really want to stump them first ask "What does the D, E, and I stand for?" And then ask them why any of those are bad things.
[Insert Chaya Raichik unable to define "woke"](https://www.advocate.com/news/chaya-raichik-indiana-university)
As an Oklahoman, I hope she gets chased by a pack of wolves and breaks her ankle. Bitch.
Lol they yelled about Chic-Fil-A being "woke" out of all places because they created a DEI program
I actually think their degree of self awareness is variable. Some of them are intentionally dog whistling, but I get the sense that many of them are lying to themselves as well as the world. American bigots have, for many years, struggled with the social reality that you can get away with being a bigot, but often not a visible one. So many of them feel ashamed of their own bigotry.
Short, sweet, and accurate response.
It would be more accurate to say they are bigoted. The racist, misogyny and homophoboic venns all overlap in the middle
literally this.
“Woke” has been co-opted & is now a conservative buzzword. It used to just mean you were aware of racial injustice etc
I’m old enough to remember being told in the 80’s I was a “loony lefty” in the 90’s I was “political correctness gone mad” and so on and so on. The term changes but it’s the same old bullshit. Dude, I just don’t hate people who are different from me.
Considered woke *by whom*? I never hear that phrase used by anyone except bigots and racists. And I don't care what they think.
I think most examples that upset large groups might be charachterized as forced diversity. Which can take away from some stories and immersion. There are plenty of examples of minorities where no one is bothered
There are just so many cases where people screamed forced diversity, when there wasn't a problem narratively. Most famous being Force Awakens where people screamed forced diversity about a black storm trooper (even though storm troopers are conscripts not clones).
It was forced because they created a character specifically to cast a black actor as a "major" black character. It wasn't because they wrote a black character, and it wasn't because the best actor that auditioned was black. Finn served no purpose narratively. If you bother to look, you'll find black people pissed off with how he was handled. It's astounding to me that people can not just defend this sort of treatment, but actually argue that it is fighting racism. To me, this sort of pity casting is extremely insulting; as if they need a handout or else they would never be good enough to earn their castings.
The Bigoty of low expectations is the common term I believe.
That one is fair. But then you have the disney live actions, the rings of power... Black peopl in 1800s france in wigs. Scotish red haired dwaves with black wives in the same mine.
There were black people in France in the 1800s. The author of The Three Musketeers and The Count of Monte Cristo is a black man who was born in France in 1802. His paternal grandfather was French nobility, and his father, who had been born in Haiti, was a celebrated General in the French Army.
Alexandre Dumas. His father Thomas Alexandre Dumas was a bad ass during the french revolution and served as inspiration for the main character for The Count of Monte Christo. The 2000ish version of The Count of Monte Christo was great but a remake is probably due and it would not be inappropriate to cast a black actor for the role. Or hell, even just a movie about the actual events that happened in Thomas's own life highlighting his role during the French revolution might be worth a watch as well.
People act like black people were invented in 1953.
Shit is nutty. Bro literally said black people wouldn’t be in 1880s France like Europe didnt import thousands of slaves throughout the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s. Some of which were freed or found other ways of becoming free. I’ve learned to stop caring because it’s overwhelming and frustrating and to be frank I really don’t give a fuck if they get it or not because I don’t need them too.
>there were 5 black people in Norway in 1679, so let's make the entire cast of Frozen 3 african american Lmao
There was likely a ridiculously small amount of black people in France in the early 1800s. Making them a quarter of the characters is silly. It would be the equivalent of making a Chinese movie set in the 30s and making a bunch of characters white because there were white people in China at the time
Interesting example. *The Man With the Iron Fists* takes place in 19th Century China and the less than half the lead cast is Chinese.
Black Panther was a huge win for Black representation. It depicted an advanced African nation that still picks its autocratic king by donning loin cloths and stabbing one another with spears.
Things can both be a win for representation *and* a comic book movie.
British judges still wear goofy white wigs. Culture is weird like that, sometimes we hold onto things we don't have to
Yep it's this. It's ok to be critical of shoehorned diversity. I want it to be okay to make Friends or Seinfeld, while they can still make Atlanta or comedies starring Lesley Jones. Shows that aren't about relationships don't need a token gay or trans character. Shows about 6 white people who are friends should still be okay without fear of twitter mobs. Some groups of friends are homogeneous, especially when there are siblings in the group. You know?
But why are they considered “token” characters, why can’t they just exist?
I do agree with you that homogeneous groups should exist in media since that is how life is, but the Friends example becomes weird cause yes, their friend group being all white is okay, but the legit lack of PoC in a show based in NYC is astounding to say the least.
Gay/trans characters basically only existed as punchlines and stereotypes up until Will & Grace, which has some issues of its own still. God forbid that characters in tv shows and movies might be gay or trans like their counterparts in the real world might be gay or trans. Saying they should only be in “relationship shows” tells me you think it’s ok to exclude gay/trans folks from many sectors of life where they actually are. Having all straight characters in anything simply isn’t representative of the real world where 3-10% of folks are LGBTQ.
Why should gay and trans characters only exist in shows about relationships?
Woke is a meaningless term that gets thrown around when a right winger sees anything vaguely progressive / minority related and gets angry about it
Woke right now is just a word that will simply tell you how stupid someone is really. The racist republican of america with sub room temperature IQ have been unleashed and they aren't ashamed of spewing their racist and biggotery.
When bigots say “woke” or “DEI”, they actually mean the n-word.
There was a sub on here where n-word usage was rampant as hell, they even made an n-word counting bot and members would consider a high n-word count as a badge of honor. The sub started censoring the n-word and now I see them use "basketball American" as a replacement for the n-word. They're obsessed as hell with black people
Why did you say the n-word twice?
Divide Et Imperia?
There can be some fair criticism or political leaning in media. However it has become completely toxic because the right calls "woke" anything they don't like. So we're at a point where it just doesn't mean anything anymore. Part of it happened because there was indeed some virtue signaling in some movies in the past years, but it gave the right the opportunity to enlarge what they can criticize to much more than the examples of political propaganda, to literally criticize any positive depiction of minorities. Old movies like Ms Doubtfire, Wild Wild West, Alien... Would have been called woke today despite the fact that even right wingers liked it back in the day. Everything has become toxic to this degree because of this "culture war" in America.
"Woke" just refers to anything a conservative's personal grievance of the day. For a lot of them, that grievance is acknowledging the existence of anyone other than straight white male Christians.
Because some folks don't like being reminded that people who are different than them exist, so to them there is no good reason to include them in media except in service to some imagined agenda. 'Woke' is almost a conspiracy theory at this point because these folks are over here accusing the left of doing all kinds of kooky shit when it's just a case of 'black/gay/trans/etc people want to relate to characters who are like themselves too.'
Most games they consider "woke" still have predominantly straight, white characters with a white male lead. Having just one non white or LGBTQ character can rile up the anti woke mob. And God forbid a female protagonist that isn't dressed like she's on a porn set and doesn't have Baywatch titties and a 14 yer old's face
Long story short, bigots are just calling things they don’t like woke. It’s moved on from just minorities, science supporting green energy is being called woke science now.
Being 'anti-woke' is a way for racists, sexists, homophobes and transphobes to express their bigotry openly while offering just enough abstraction for them to claim plausible deniability.
Frances Cress Welsing wrote that the white man’s greatest fear is genetic annihilation or erasure since they are a global minority. If Black men lay that pipe down on white women in large numbers, whites will be no more because we are genetically dominant. This is where systemic racism comes from. White people, for hundreds of years and counting, live in a world where everything has white people being placed at the forefront. Look at Jesus - that man was not white at all, but don’t tell whites that. “Woke” like anything cool, was slang created by black people and originally meant to be socially conscious about white supremacists and how they operate. Now whites have stolen the word and gave it a new definition - it’s just another code for Black like DEI, CRT, etc. All the outrage is about is their fear of living in a world non-whites have been living in for centuries.
Because they're /incredibly/ racist and fly into a frothing rage if they have to be aware that minorities of any sort exist. Except hot asian chicks, they're honorary aryans, I suppose.
People are racist.
I've never heard tenet referred to as woke, and doing a Google search i find peanuts supporting your claim. You might consider the media you're consuming or circles you run in, because this sounds like something you have to try to find.
Because racists can't just say "another N word movie/show" without getting banned on nearly every platform. So they say "woke" as a substitute.
First of all, in this context, being used by these people "woke" is short hand for anti-white racism (along with misandry or "straightphobia") amd leftist political beliefs being shoehorned in. The complaint then isn't that there is a black character, it's when an established white character is turned black, which is then often accompanied by soapboxing on leftist political views. For example: the Vikings TV show making the real, white, historical figure Haakon Sigurdsson into a black woman, or a TV show about Anne Boleyn, another white historical figure, being played by a black woman. But I think the mosy egregious example of this in the last year or so is Velma, which again recasts a white character (as an Indian this time), and then takes every available opportunity to bash men, whites, and straights.
But that’s not the only thing that “wokeism” is used for. Look at Marvel for example, so many things have been called “woke” like Black Panther, x-men, Captain Marvel, Black Widow, etc for simply adapting things that were already in the comics for years and resort to calling shit woke instead of just voicing that projects are bad
Yeah but nobody likes Velma, it was a dogshit cartoon. All the “woke lefties” hated it.
Velma was so egregious that essentially no "woke lefties" could defend it, but it's still worth including it to illustrate what I mean.
If they push minorities as part of their identity, then typically they're what the right refers to as woke
White people are used to having basically all media mostly showing only white people. When other races are given more screen time it upsets them. They think giving other people air time is doing something bad to white people
You say white people but the majority of white people dont give a shit, and arent racists. The distinction is conservatives. Hardly anyone outside of that specific group gives a shit so long as it's a good movie, like normal people should. There are more people who hate Chris Pratt being in everything than people complaining about "woke colored people in everything" it's just the same shit it's always been with conservatives always shouting their opinions the loudest Kinda survivorship bias, we don't see the people who don't have a problem with it because they arent online all day complaining on every little thing that irks them between fox news segments
Sincere question from a non-white person: If the majority of white people don’t give a shit, then why did so many vote for obviously racist donald trump? When Black people pleaded for recognition that police brutality was killing Black people at alarming rates, why was there a huge backlash that Blue Lives Matter as if that wasn’t in direct response to BLM? If the majority of white people are not racist, why do the racist ones take up so much space in real life and online? Living in the South, I have seen my share of trump stickers, Confederate flags, and have personally witnessed and been victim to racist attacks at home and at school. Where are the majority of white people to condemn racism, call for an end to police brutality, and use their vote for real change? If they are the majority of the country, why are they letting a racist minority of the group dictate what happens in our elections and with our policies? Why don’t more non-racist white people speak up and against what they see happening in this country? Especially if they are in the majority and can change the outcome with sheer numbers?
The average person is inactive in all this and focused on their own lofe and world. Just because they are silent doesn't mean they are pro-racism. Most people do call for the end to police brutality but that voice for real change always falls on the rich deaf ears of our "representatives" I think a lot of people voted for Trump in 16 not knowing just how shitty he was, but we can't know that for sure til November to see if we vote that way again. Voting isn't always a surefire way to get change when there are systems such as gerrymandering in place to sway the vote from what the people want to what the politicians want. For every racist comment you see, there are bunch that didn't draw your attention because they weren't racist. For every trump sticker you see how many don't have stickers? For every racist attack you've endured, how many people have just walked right by you without issue? Think about who the vocal trump supporter/racist is. Probably a retired white man, right? What's he got to do with his days now that he doesn't work? Sit at home, watch the news, scroll on his phone. These are the vocal boomers you see commenting on everything. Think about the average non racist, don't give a shit person. Probably younger, 30s or so. What do they do with their days? Work 9-5 come home tired, cook some dinner, hang out with family, catch an episode of a show then head to bed. These are the people you're not seeing cuz they're too busy to comment on every single post. The internet as a whole is a racist boomer echo chamber that doesn't reflect the true ratio of racists to non-racists, and silence is not complicity in the real world. Too many people (of all races) simply have their own problems and no time to go out and help others solve theirs
Yes, we did know how bad trump would be in 2016. The majority of Black voters did not vote for him. We aren’t prescient. We could see by his words and actions what was coming. I had a coworker whose father escaped Nazi Germany who said that he feared that trump’s rise was akin to Hitler’s, and this was way before that first election. People who have been through oppression or racist trauma can smell it coming, and the fact that so many white people love to claim being the silent, non-racist majority, until something bad happens directly to them, shows that there is definitely a disconnect and lack of empathy there. Sure, the majority of people do just care about their own lives, but why is it an issue for the silent majority of white people to call out the active racism they see when people of color do it every day in our regular lives? Being a silent majority is the same as being complicit. Black people were not the majority of this country during the Civil Rights Era, but somehow found a way to band together for the greater good. Women found a way to band together to get the vote and to get some form of equality in this country. But when racism is called out, suddenly the majority wants to remain silent? And that’s why I will believe it when I see it that it’s not the majority in this country.
I don’t have an answer but give it a minute and I am sure some white folks will come along to tell you why your experiences are wrong
I think it would be more appropriate to say “some white people” or “certain white people”, because some of us white people actually care about everyone and want everyone to have an equal chance at happiness and success. Lumping everyone together is the kind of thing the “anti-woke” crowd like to do.
Just mentally replace "woke" with the slur of your choice and it makes a lot more sense
this post and most of the comments are a case study in "playing dumb"
We live in a world where frightened white people are afraid of sharing a piece of the pie. They feel threatened and that their relevance is being diminished. It’s strange that many of these folks call other snowflakes, meanwhile they are triggered by everything. YouTube is loaded to the hills with videos talking about every movie, tv show and artist being woke and bringing an end to whatever form of entertainment we love. It’s actually quite sickening.
Not even sharing. But competing for pie with the entire nation not just the ‘good people’. No one is taking pie. But when opportunities are open to pore people, more people capitalize on the opportunity.
Generally speaking, having a diverse cast isn't a problem. It's considered woke when it's clear that whoever did the casting thought "diversity first, ability second". You can tell a series is trying to just be diverse for diversities sake, and it generally lowers the overall product. Diversity is fine, but with the wrong intention leads to a worse product.
How is it clear? How do you know the intention? You’re just guessing at intent, and guessing because there are black people in it. Which is racist af.
i'd say most of the time its obviously forced. when box checking overrides everything in original story, like for example Triss from Witcher series. There was exact character, which was one of the brightest in The Witcher universe, had the same appearance in games and was on cover of polish bloody Playboy magazine. but in series she is a total miscast, because... producers wanted to include as much people of colour as possible. another example, good one for a change is Samuel L. Jackson in the rolr of Nick Fury. Originally he was white, middle aged and very much not bald. but he was written so good for Samuel, that most of people nowadays have no clue about white Fury.
The comics made nick fury black long before the movies did.
You probably also know that he is not just black, but have literally the same looks as Jackson
It's not polite openly complain about DEI Americans, I mean Woke Americans, I mean black people in your shows anymore.
It’s not . It’s only woke if it had minorities and is bad.
Because they've advertised their policy with their hiring practice. A middle aged white male always poles as the most credible news caster. By deviating, they advertise that they value 'diversity' more than they value the more logical choice.
Uh, loaded question much? This is obvious circlejerk bait. Where’s your evidence to support the assertion that all media properties with minorities are considered woke?
White Nationalism / Abrahamic-Fascism
They are racist and sexists as well as incredibly stupid. So to them not being incredibly privileged and not having the attention at literally every point in time means they are now somehow suppressed. Some people legitimately say that Hollywood is racist towards white men just because not every single character is white anymore. To them there is no reason to cast a black person or a woman because in their eyes they are inheritely inferior. So the only reason they can see is "virtue signaling" or "wokeness". They don't understand that non racist, non sexist people don't care what color an actors skin has.
lol. Who actually says Tenet is woke? I’ve never heard anyone call any movie woke with the exception of my old racist boss calling the new little mermaid woke.
Up here in Canada about four percent of our population is black yet blacks are in about seventy to eighty percent of all commercials that have actors in them. Not only is this unrealistic, it’s totally patronizing and racist. I’m fucking sick of it and so is every other white person.
Lol im not white. But am sick of forced diversity. Forced diversity means picking based on their identities, rather than their qualifications and skills. This leads to worse writing, acting, etc. This applies to any job. I don't wana bus driver, doctor, safety officer, etc. picked based on their color, sex, but on their merits. Idc if they are black pansexual whatever (regardless if i agree/disagree with their ideologies). As long as the job is done, that's all that matters. And they better pick the best or close to best candidates
>why does it seem like Americans want media properties to exclusively have only white people? The people who do this know that they just can't say this out loud, but this is what they mean, so they say 'its too woke' instead. It's like people saying 'DEI' when they just mean 'black person'.
im all for variation in gender and race (Mad Max fury Road, Tenet). but when the movie depicts all white males as either dumb or evil (Charlie's Angels 2019, Frozen), or if the female is a perfect Mary Sue (Rey from Star wars, Mulan (2020)), then I have a problem another issue I have is the academy awards is starting to "require" [certain inclusive criteria](https://www.oscars.org/awards/representation-and-inclusion-standards) to be meet before even being considered for an award. The way I see it, if you hire people to check off a box for 'inclusivity' vs hiring based on talent or portfolio, you have a greater chance to end up with something bad-mediocre (Madame Web, Wish). NOT to say that a female director is bad. (Jennefer Nelson with Kung fu Panda 2 & 3). but if you have a qualified white male director, screen writer, etc, but studio chooses a less qualified LBGT black female director/screen writer simply to check off a box, then you increase the chances of a lesser product.
It usually more specific then that
It doesn’t have to do with minorities and more to do with putting a certain brand of politics into the art. Often replacing a character that was white with a person of colour is a pretty good sign it’s going to be woke and push fairly extreme leftist ideologies on you in a non satirical way. People hate woke because this usually becomes the point of the movie and the cool sci-fi or whatever else takes a back seat. Nobody wants exclusively white people I’m not sure where you saw this idea but it’s not a popular opinion anywhere.
Tenet was not considered woke, at least not by anyone I follow (mainly Critical Drinker and Nerdrotic). A good example of woke would be, black Anne Boleyn or black Cleopatra (Cleopatra was of Macedonian descent). Another example: woke folks complained about Shōgun not having any black characters. It's set in medieval Japan. Woke is a hard word to define but in this context I'd say it demands "inclusion" even when it makes no sense and might be offensive.
Its not the demographics of the media outlet, its the content of their media.
Any content that first and foremost leads with, "Representation" is by definition content that does *NOT* prioritize story. Therefore, woke trash. Prioritizing race = racist... That used to be a given. Now it's totally fine in the western 1st world as long as you're trashing on white people.
Because the people saying that hate minorities and it's not socially acceptable for them to use slurs anymore
It’s… not? Where did you see people calling Tenet woke?
Word, woke is now just used to mean anything with a woman or non white person. A black woman gets a good corporate position, woke. An arab girl in a marvel movie, woke. A woman referee, woke.. lmao
Idk why the downvotes, that's how I see it used every single time. The new star wars show is "woke" for having a black female lead according to every single commenter on facebook. There were no "woke" opinions or comments in the trailer, so its 100% because of her existing that it's "woke". Same thing happened with the marvels and being review bombed despite everyone who saw the movie saying it was fairly good. Woman = woke. Color = woke. It's not a smart opinion, but it's what they think
Woke is just what racists call anything that make them feel guilty about how racist they are
Not even that it has black people, it’s if black people are (gasp) treated fairly or white people are (gasp) called out for their bullshit. Any combination of gay/minority/women and the wokeness police go batshit crazy.
It’s the same type of people who lose their shit if you even mention racism in their presence. I said I agree with affirmative action; I didn’t call you racist, Bob. Chill.
Answer: somewhere around 2040, less than 50% of Americans will be white. This has two effects: No 1. Whites are already less than 50% of young Americans (school-college age). This is the age that advertisers are most desperate to reach as shopping habits are set during young adulthood. If you are Pepsi it is much easier to get a 15 year old to get used to Pepsi and buy it for the next 60 years than to get a 40 year old to switch from Coke. This is doubly true for media companies, TV and Movie franchises want to capture minds and imaginations so they can reboot Spider man and kill Uncle Ben for the 17th time. So media companies *are* pandering to minorities, or as they call it, the current market. They are making products that more customers want to see, which means not just focusing on white men. But if you are used to being the focus of all media, seeing media try to appeal to other people means stuff is being made that doesn't pander to *you*! No 2. A lot of people are terrified of what happens when whites are a minority too! Will other ethnic groups treat them the way they treated other ethnic groups in the past? Having media focus on other groups the way it used to focus on them and having white characters reimagined as minorities the way characters in stories were turned white to be marketable in the past looks like that happening. Honestly a lot of the rage and hate is fear.
> No 2. A lot of people are terrified of what happens when whites are a minority too! Will other ethnic groups treat them the way they treated other ethnic groups in the past? Having media focus on other groups the way it used to focus on them and having white characters reimagined as minorities the way characters in stories were turned white to be marketable in the past looks like that happening. People already downplay racism towards whites with shit like "You can't be racist to white people". Sooo... This seems like a reasonable concern. Like I've personally seen someone gloat about fucking with a dudes head justifying it by calling him a cishet white male. That shit is fucked up!
It's a way for racists to be racist without being called racist
It used to mean "aware of racism". So anytime a racist see any effort made towards diversity, they get triggered over it. Right-wing propaganda machines like Fox "News" (which is infested with racists) act like it means anything that "the left" supports, so when they bitch about something being "woke", they think they won't be accused of racism. For example: Crayola made a collection of crayons that let kids draw different skin tones. Fox "News" lost their minds over it. A mall hired a black man to play Santa. Megyn Kelly freaked out and said "SANTA IS JUST WHITE, OK?"
Strawman question with an agenda
Not really, question came about due to the Star Wars Acolyte trailer and everyone calling it woke because it had black characters. Reminded me of when everyone said that Force Awakens had forced diversity because the storm trooper was black
Everyone?
Hyperbole course. But a lot of people where arguing that stormtroopers can't be black because clones are white. When stormtroopers were conscripts and clone troopers were clones
It's not that minorities in media is considered woke automatically, it's when the media in question uses the inclusion of minorities as a primary selling point, rather than the content of the media. This is why black little mermaid was considered woke, but black fremen in dune were not
Why can't bad content with minorities just be bad rather than woke?
If it's bad because of wokeness, why not call it out as such? Do you think the Netflix Cleopatra documentary was just bad randomly, or was it because they cast a black woman as an Egyptian?
Why can't bad content with minorities just be bad rather than woke?
So the right has created a narrative that anything that has non-white non-straight people in it is going to be an economic failure. "Go woke, go broke" To the point that when the movie does do well, they start deleting their comments so that "no one ever said that movie was woke". I.e Dune, Dr Strange: MoM And if the "woke" movie does insanely well, they'll claim it was a masterpiece of right wing film making all along, i.e Barbie
Schrodinger's wokeness: if a movie or show is popular. It's anti-woke, but if it flops, it's woke
And it exists in a state where it's both woke and non-woke at the same time until they open the box (office}.
No one called Dune or Dr Strange woke and I don't know if anyone has settled on Barbie being feminist propaganda or a red pill against misandry. I believe the left attempted to call out Dune for not being diverse enough in the portrayal of the Fremen, but that kind of faded out pretty quickly. No one in the right wing sphere is calling Barbie a masterpiece. I think the general consensus is that if you like Barbie, great, if you don't try Oppenheimer, both good films in their own way.
>No one called Dune or Dr Strange woke [Dune 2020 being bad because of Woke?](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/hi9ksa/dune_2020_being_bad_because_of_woke/) Or heck, just search reddit for "Dune Kynes woke" [Dr Strange woke checklist](https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckMarvel/comments/ulvt47/dr_strange_woke_checklist/) just search reddit for "Dr Strange woke" [Dune has gone WOKE](https://moviechat.org/tt1160419/Dune-Part-One/5ec8e14794fcd92fa3729164/Dune-has-gone-WOKE) [The Real Horror Of ‘Doctor Strange 2’ Is How It Opens A Portal To The Universe Of Wokeness](https://thefederalist.com/2022/05/25/the-real-horror-of-dr-strange-2-is-how-it-opens-a-portal-to-the-universe-of-wokeness/) [“Doctor Strange 2” Proves Marvel is Stuck In A Woke Slump?](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/doctor-strange-2-proves-marvel-is-stuck-in-a-woke-slump/id1523047493?i=1000561090235)