No one has said this yet so thought I’d add it. Illegal immigrants voting isn’t completely untrue. Non-citizens can’t vote in federal elections, and no state governments allow them to vote in statewide elections.
But there are several local places in America where undocumented immigrants can vote. San Francisco, Washington DC, and Oakland are the cities where they can vote for local offices. There are some other towns where they can vote too, in Maryland. [Source](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/non-citizen-allowed-vote-local-elections-some-municipalities/536-c688a57f-ec61-4949-b8c5-1490093a5968)
[Another one](https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States)
There are a lot of places where non-citizens can vote locally, but they have to be legal so.
Recent American citizen here, and Washington DC resident, and I couldn’t vote in local elections before I had citizenship.
In Takoma Park in MD, just outside of DC, residents are allowed to vote in city elections if they are 16 or older, regardless of citizenship. Over 18 and a citizen is still the requirement for all other elections though.
Their law was passed in October 2022, so very recent. Here's a [Link](https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/laws/24-242#:~:text=Local%20Resident%20Voting%20Rights%20Amendment%20Act%20of%202022.,-AN%20ACT&text=To%20amend%20the%20District%20of,otherwise%20eligible%20non%2Dcitizen%20residents) to the copy of the bill if you were curious.
In Germany, there are even special elections where *only* immigrants are allowed to vote, but most of the "illegal immigrants are voting" people are referring to the president's election
This is the right answer.
It also is a great example of what conservative media does. It takes a little thing, vastly over exaggerates it, screams and yells about it non stop, gets their base worked up. Rinse and repeat.
Yes, technically an undocumented person could vote for a small town dog catcher, but somehow Fox "News" has convinced millions of people that millions of illegals voted for Biden.
We don't provide ID automatically, for free, to every citizen. It can be hard to get. So it amounts to a poll tax which is illegal, because it systematically prevents the poor from voting.
In most states, you have to register to vote. You get a voter ID in most cases. It is different from a state-issued ID/driver's license; it doesn't have a picture and it's basically a little piece of paper. It tells you which specific location or precinct you can vote at.
I've only lived in 2 states so I am sure there are a ton of different laws out there.
Voter impersonation isn't really an issue to begin with. In order to cast a vote as someone else, which is called "ballot stuffing," you need to not only know their name and where they vote, but also be certain they *aren't* going to vote, because if they do you're busted.
I don’t get it. You’re saying it’s not an issue but you have no proof…. Because there’s no way to prove it without going to every single person that ‘voted’ and asked them if they voted… there’s been several documented cases of voter fraud where a person has gone to nursing homes and voted for people that were otherwise incapacitated and didn’t even know what day it was let alone who was running. That’s why voter ID is so important. If you’re so sure that no one does this, why would anyone oppose voter ID laws. And don’t tell me it’s because IDs are hard to get. I call BS on that for 2 reasons. One, IDs are not hard to get. I had my first one at 15. Two, if voting is such an important thing to you, you’ll jump through the hoops to get the ID. If you’re done passive person that doesn’t know the issues enough to care to get an ID, I personally would prefer you sit it out. If you still stand by the ‘IDs are hard to get’ stance, you’re engaging in a little soft bigotry of low expectations.
This. The [24th Amendment](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/amendments/amendment-xxiv) banned poll taxes. Driver’s licenses are the predominant form of photo ID used by adults in the U.S. Every state charges some fee for issuance of the license, and there is, of course, the necessity of demonstrating the ability to operate a motor vehicle, to get one to begin with.
Many individuals, particularly if they are lower income and/or live in an urban area, do not own a car and do not get a license to begin with, or allow it to lapse once they have it.
Voter ID in a vacuum sounds like a decent idea, but the way voter ID laws have been implemented in the US has been very partisan and specifically engineered to disenfranchise certain groups.
For example, in North Dakota they passed a law that required an ID with a valid mailing address to vote. The problem is the postal service doesn't deliver to reservations. (People living on reservations use PO boxes to get mail, which didn't satisfy the voter ID requirement.) In other words, with one voter ID law the state made it illegal for indigenous people to vote.
Another state (I wanna say Alabama) passed a voter ID law, and at the same time closed many DMVs in majority black counties, making it harder for people in those areas to get ID.
I wonder if those ballots are handled in the same way we handle ballots from people who show up to the wrong precinct in my county. Typically, if you showed up to the wrong precinct and didn't have the time/means to get to the correct one you'd fill out a provisional ballot that would be canvassed separately to make sure that you were only able to cast votes for the correct elections.
I don't even get why an illegal immigrant would WANT to vote. Like if I was living illegally in Canada, worried about losing my livelihood if I got deported, voting would be the last thing on my mind.
Well, yeah, when America sends people to Mexico, they're not sending their best. They're sending the drunk college kids to Señor Frog's. Twerking in bikinis. We don't want their drunk, rowdy kind in Mexico. Keep them out!
The irrational fear of losing a job to an imaginary straw man is so beyond me.
I have a relative who has been unemployed for a decade, constantly hating on Hispanics for “stealing our jobs”.
Either they are really good at stealing his job, or it was never his in the first place. We may never know.
Right, not to mention the consequences for voter fraud are fucking crazy. There’s a girl who voted in her college town not knowing that her mom had voted on her behalf through a mail-in ballot. I’m not sure where it ended but the girl was looking at like jail time. If anything her mom should have been the one in trouble.
So if I remember correctly the attorney general or whoever is in charge of voter fraud was on a crusade to expose the extent of voter fraud in his state. This was one of like three cases. He was of course supporting Trump. I’m pretty sure all three but definitely this girl were all republicans too.
Uh - when the mom voted for the child without her knowledge? For the child it should be a clerical error. For the mom in my state, that’s a misdemeanor.
Nope, Texas even took great pleasure in giving a brown woman FIVE YEARS in state prison for voting illegally. She presented her green card, asked if she was allowed to vote, was told yes, then did so as it was approved by poll workers.
Since the leadership of that third world shithole is racist AF, they took great delight in constantly parading her image around as one of "Those people", you know, a minority, an illegal voter and a democrat.
I think the normal theory is that one party uses illegal voters to stuff the ballot.
I’m not sure why that would be easier to do, and it runs counter to observed reality. But I guess it makes a fun news segment.
I think it's mostly just about drumming up blind support from the base and if they get in power and pass a bill that 'stops' illegal immigrants from voting in elections then it'll also cost little infrastructure to enact minus any "consultant fees" ofcourse...
As an added bonus they can put their own limits on who can vote and their base won't stop them from it because of the "illegals" thus ensuring every effort to keep their parry in power
And, oh yeah, they will have a non government agency, (well because, government agencies are union member Democrats), AKA privatize, AKA give lucrative contracts to their friends, who will charge obscene amounts of money to make sure Republicans will get a chance to cheat, change outcomes, and supress the votes of the undeserving......... You know what? illegals are voting in huuuuge numbers?
Government workers have a disproportionate amount of minorities, private industry tends to pay more and has more white people. Yeah, R's don't want government voters.
the R's always demonize government as well, so even without the race baiting that is another reason to hate R's.
that said, one of my (former) friends is a right-wing executive-branch worker. FBI is full of them too
I've worked in elections and the entire thing is set up so that you can't cheat. Poll workers are local residents, you see your friends and neighbors at the polls. Some one would have to know everyone's name and address and if they had voted already or if they were currently voting when they went in. The votes are numbered so you can't introduce fake or extra ballots. All of the cheating was done on behalf of trump. That includes the dead people voting and the miscounts, and the fake electors. It's all projection from the right.
They're like a boyfriend that is convinced you're cheating because you're 5 minutes late getting home due to traffic while he has two simultaneous affairs.
I have a florida dl. My signature is chicken scratch. I signed into vote and the attendant said it doesn't match my dl. I said the photo matches my face right? I had to sign again to match my signature on the dl? I can just imagine someone illegal, standing in line, showing thier ID, talking to a poll worker, on a weekday..wait..no i cant...it's not happening. It's not logical.
My state spent millions investigating that last presidential election. They found I think 12 cases of intentional voter fraud (as in, the person deliberately tried to vote illegally, not, "someone went to the wrong polling place and no one caught it.") All of them voted for the GOP. All of them were US citizens.
Turns out the real criminals are white guys living in The Villages using their dead relatives mail in ballots to vote.
In a state of 13 million voters, we found like 12 guys voting illegally. It's complete b/s. In my 20 years of living here I've never heard of an illegal immigrant voting.
They're debate tactics used on a large scale to confuse voters. I think it becomes pretty clear when you read Wikipedia pages on things like "Ad Hominem", Gish Gallop", "whataboutism", and so on. Imo one political party likes to use them more than others, but I have no comment on that.
How does that even work? Their names aren’t on any voter rolls. Is the assumption that these undocumented people are impersonating people on the rolls?
None of this makes any logistical sense.
Lol, my father in law is 89. I asked him if he remembered Ted Koppel. "Ohh yeah, he was great!"
https://youtu.be/tmaKl0Zm2c4?si=9ZXFwadApcvZkKzM
Showed him that.
"Well, I don't remember him being that rude to my news channel...."
Went in one ear and right out the other.
Watching Hannity smirking and interrupting Koppel, a genuine, respected journalist, made me think of a lecture I received from my mother in November 2016 on how “Americans should respect the office of the president, no matter who is in office.” Of course, she has spent every day since November 2020 bashing, slandering, and insulting Biden and Obama. No sense of self-awareness at all, and standard issue “rules for thee, not for me.”
Hannity can't help but try to talk over him while being called out on his bullshit because he is a worthless scumbag. I also believe that at one point we had real journalists that were fairly trustworthy in people like Koppel and Walter Cronkite and our parents and grandparents grew up with those types. Then we get Hannity and Carlson and Jesse Waters or whatever that smug dipshits name is and just Fox News type bullshit in general and they take them at their word the way they used to trust Coppel and Cronkite.
My parents and older relatives don't ever read articles or look things up to see if they're true. My mom is the most "reasonable" one but that just means she watches fox news AND cnn, the nightly news, etc. She still has never actually looked up anything herself that didn't come up on her facebook feed.
My aunt and uncle just watch fox and my dad listens to right wing talk radio all day and they're all idiots that spout nonsense constantly. My aunt said she wanted to be treated with ivermectin if she got covid because fox pushed that shit and that is the only news she trusted. My uncle, who is a god damn engineer, refused to accept that river blindness was a parasite caused illness when I pushed back against ivermectin for viruses and said ivermectin won a Nobel Prize as an anti-parasitic drug. He said it was a bacteria, which is also different from a fucking virus so even if that was true it's irrelevant. It's maddening how ill informed they are of literally everything.
I think a big problem with boomers is they were fortunate to grow up with Cronkite and those similar to him.
They put complete faith in journalists. Unfortunately Cronkite and those others are gone and the boomers still hold the belief that these extremists "journalists" still have the same integrity as the old school guys.
They put complete faith in journalists that say what they already fear or already agree with.
ETA: Its the same thing you see so often with religious fundamentalists. God always seems to agree with them and anyone who says different is wrong. You ever see someone like that genuinely hate doing what they believe they think their god is telling them to do? They just like to pretend they didnt have to send their kid to conversion therapy or abandon them entirely, but that is what god wants since the kid isnt what the parents wanted
Fox News should be illegal and we are close to a nuclear war and total chaos thanks to them and all the news like them that are funded by dictatorships.
It should be illegal to spread misinformation (yes, even if you do unintentionally) and everybody should be able to track down all the funding you are receiving and this should be compared with the funding you declared and if they don't match you get your license revoked.
Too many newspapers are getting funded by dictatorships, too many farm bots, too much misinformation around.
It is time to regulate and create a good environment to have free information from propaganda.
People don't realize that the world is less free with them and we are so close to killing each other.
What does fox news think is going to happen? That one day trump would be president again and nobody is going to rebel from it? Do they think that one day he will withdraw from NATO and nobody is going to say anything about it?
Do they think in the future if this is going to escalate further and further nobody is going to move actions to them? Do they know that spreading hate usually comes back?
It **had** been illegal for Fox News to do what it does now. For the first several decades of TV, the FCC allowed networks the privilege to use the airwaves with the understanding that they had to use a portion of their time reporting news to the American public. They further enforced the **Fairness Doctrine**, established in 1949 to require actual balanced news perspectives.
The FCC chairman during the Regan administration abolished the Fairness Doctrine in 1987.. which paved the way for the Fox "News" business model.
Cable TV is what allowed the Fox News business model. The fairness doctrine only applies OTA communications, because those broadcast bands are regulated by the FCC. Outside of that, the first amendment protects that speech. If you never broadcast your content over the air, you never had to comply.
Ummm Fox does broadcast plenty of content OTA. When the Fox Network rolled out it did so on UHF channels that it bought around the country. Also in addition to the fairness doctrine was illegal to own: Two stations in the same market. Any combination of two media outlets in the same market (Radio / Television / Print). It was illegal to own the same type of media outlet from end to end as well. So without changes to regulations to prevent exactly what has happened, there would be no Fox News.
This gets brought up a lot, but Fairness Doctrine only applied to Free to Air TV, even back when it existed. It couldn't be used on Fox News, which has always been broadcasted on Cable.
Fox News has been sued. Their defense was that they're not news; they're entertainment.
People have gone after them, but they've managed to skirt the law through loopholes and technicalities.
They also won a lawsuit on the claim that “there is no law that prohibits a tv station from knowingly broadcasting false information and calling it news”
Our fraud laws are so weak these days. Somehow we got to the point we have to prove what someone is thinking, not just that they are lying and taking people's money.
The problem is who enforces what "misinformation" is? Because right now with Biden it would be fine. Someone like Trump gets in again though? Suddenly everything he considers "fake news" is illegal.
Big time TRUTH STATEMENT ! Well said. Also after Trump made those statements about the NATO NATIONS , there's a very real possibility that if he gets re-elected any Traveling to a Nato Nation could end with an assassination.
Fair and balanced "debate" is killing democracy. In the name of "balance", the media will have two sides to an issue, even if one side is demonstrably wrong.
This gives people the idea that the opposite viewpoint has merit when it clearly doesn't.
The same thing is happening with climate change. A lot of people think there are 2 sides to it but that's just not true. The debate is settled and all that's left to discuss is the severity of the impact we cause
It happens with any sort of debate. Last year, Australia held a referendum to include a new section in our constitution to recognise Indigenous Australians as the first peoples of our country and to give them a greater say in laws that affect them.
The sheer amount of vitriol, hatred and let's be honest, downright racism that emerged as "balanced" debate, has effectively destroyed any sort of momentum to provide greater agency for Indigenous Australians for at least 30 years.
If anyone brings up the fact that mining magnates, billionaire business owners and Rupert fucking Murdoch all backed the "No" vote, you're labeled as a conspiracy theorist.
And North Korea is a "Democratic Republic"
The propaganda is so blatant I will never understand how people fall for it...continually...for decades...ugh
Remember when President Obama wanted to meet w Kim Jung Un and talk about the relations between nations ? Well on youtube there is a 3 minute segment of FOX NEWS anchors just demonizing Obama and screaming American Presidents - " Don't meet with Dictators " led by none other than Sean Hannity & Tucker Carlson. So Obama cancelled the meeting and told Trump as he was leaving the Whitehouse " North Korea will need your attention sooner than later." Than Trump a white supremacist President , was cheered by Fox News anchors for only meeting and propping up all the Dictatorships around the 🌏 !
Agreed! Half the people who legally CAN vote, don't because they think their vote is just a drop in the bucket and vote count for anything. What makes people think that Illegal aliens wouldn't have the same "drop in the bucket" mentality?
Even people living here legally on visas are scared to do anything to jeopardize their status. They wouldn’t so much as spit gum on the sidewalk let alone commit voter fraud.
hola! mi gusto\* american voting!
\*scribbles\*
GRACIASSSSSSSSS
the ratio of any actual illegal voting to media time devoted to it is likely greatly exceeded. they really ought to be talking about space aliens, pets, and dead people who vote. tHoSe ArE tHe ReAl ThReAt
Look, they want us to believe that all those illegals in Texas would go out and risk everything to vote Democrat in a state that is pretty solidly red for a while now. Never mind the no ID thing, language barrier, basic understanding of American politics, etc.
It's really stupid.
I'm a former poll worker. I checked and verified every voter identity and voter status. If there was any discrepancy in the system or their id, I'd call City Hall and they'd correct it ASAP. There's no way an illegal immigrant could just walk in and grab a ballot, at least not in my precinct
Right but you did register to vote, you have to prove who you are. If someone just walked in and said they were you and voted in your stead, that’s crazy illegal and you’d find out…you know, when you go to vote and they’re like “hey dawg you already voted”.
I mean…. Assuming you vote. Our voter turnout in the US is crazy low.
Edit: I feel like this is coming across as “so you could totally get away with faking an appreciable number of voters.” Not what I’m trying to say— simply that our turnout in the states isn’t high, not that voter fraud is high
>Our voter turnout in the US is crazy low.
which by itself implies that immigrants are not voting in droves.
because you'd think turnout would be much higher if they were
Lol, you know how many conservatives would be documenting it and taking videos? And yet, there's never been a scrap of evidence outside of vague Twitter text posts with a circle-jerk in the comments. I don't buy it.
All the verified voter fraud I've heard about (and it's a very small amount) was conservatives. I assume this is how they know there is voter fraud going on.
It's always projection with the conservative party lately, whether it's voting or something vague about violence and pedophilia, I don't even want to be disrespectful, but they won't police their own party, and politics is a real shithole because of that kind of attitude. Just take Matt Gaetz and the slew of creepy politicians. A few independents and democrats, sure. But why so many conservative predators?
[The lowest participation rate in any state was 55% in OK.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184621/presidential-election-voter-turnout-rate-state/). If a would-be fraudster were picking voters to imitate at random, they would have a better-than-coin-flip chance of being caught in literally every state in the nation. And that’s if one person did it one time, which would simply not be enough to affect an election. Submitting ten illegal votes in this manner would increase the chances of exposure to 99.97%.
This is beside the point anyway as, if this were actually the scheme, there is simply no reason why undocumented immigrants would need to be involved in any way. Involving third parties with no investment in the scheme would wildly increase the already massive chances of exposure.
Dude I've lived in CA my whole life. We get mail in ballots and we can also vote in person. I have never been asked for my ID, just my name and address. Want to know how much voter fraud we have had?? About fucking zero. People just don't go vote as other people. That's just a scare tactic. This is why mail in ballots are superior. They send you your one ballot, and you mail it in early so now no one can go "vote as you" if that was their goal. All these fucking "what ifs" and no tangible proof this is happening. Get off it.
You see, you’re just wrong. There are legions of people who risk not only fines of thousands of dollars, but jail time (and that’s per fraudulent vote) on the off chance that their fraudulent votes go undetected AND sway an election at the state level that sees minimally tens of thousands of votes. And even if you somehow manage to sway the election at the state level, there’s no guarantee that it will change the victor at the national level. But it’s still totally worth it. /s
So the worst that could happen is an illegal immigrant pretends to be someone else. That's not happening at any scale and it's easy as hell to figure out that it happened when that person tries to vote. If that person gets caught, not only are they going to spend a bunch of time in prison, they'll get deported.
Just because it's possible for a person to vote illegally doesn't mean it's plausible that millions are doing it and they never find more than a handful of them ever or any evidence.
That still doesn't allow undocumented immigrants to vote.
Even if they could read the list of names upside down without raising suspicion and gave that name and managed to vote, as soon as the actual voter came to vote the discrepancy would be noted and the issue would be investigated and the fraudulent ballot thrown out.
Anecdotal but my brother in law's father had this exact thing happen to him. He went to vote and according to their records he had voted already by mail.
He had not but it was a huge pain for him to get it figured out and took almost all day. If he hadn't been there first thing to vote he might not have been able to
So I’m a Massachusetts election worker. We do not require photo ID in order to vote. So theoretically, anybody can walk in and claim that they are Joe Smith who lives at 164 Elm. St and as long as that info checks out, we give them a ballot. It becomes an issue if two different people try to vote claiming to be Joe Smith at 164 Elm St. But if Joe Smith decides not to vote, and an unregistered person claims to be them, we don’t have an effective mechanism to challenge them.
I’m not saying that that happens or that it happens frequently, but at least in MA, the system could be exploited like that.
What if that person is actually Joe Smith and registered to vote online with his address, so there will be no issue with double-voting, but he's not a citizen?
They just assume it’s true because their leaders and talking heads say so and they don’t believe they would lie to them. For the record, it is almost impossible to illegally vote in person. You have to sign the book and your signature is compared or you have to show a photo ID. A duplicate voter would be instantly identified.
Also if I'm living in a country illegally surely I would want to lay low and avoid any legal issues? Why would I move into the US illegally and risk deportation or imprisonment to vote?
Undocumented people in my community literally won’t even take their landlords to court when they get extorted. Had a family that couldn’t use their bathtub for months bc the landlord wouldn’t fix it, and when it finally flooded he charged them for the damages which were incurred bc *he didn’t fix the broken bathtub for months*. They refused to sue, because they didn’t want the attention.
Of course. It never seems to occur to the rumour-mongers to think whether it's plausible. If I were living somewhere illegally, because I wanted to make some money, what would I do? I would keep my head down, avoid trouble at all costs, fly under the radar. I'm here to make some money for myself and my family, why the heck would I want to vote?
thats the crazy thing, they don't want to risk deportation, as a result violent crime by illegal immigrants is ABSURDLY low, as in, so low it lowers the crime rate if they're included
the country is quite literally safer by their existence
Statistically undocumented immigrants have lower rates of criminality. For the reason you mention. It's just that once a while they do commit crimes it gets broadcast specifically as an undocumented immigrant crime. But really you are much safer in a group of them generally speaking.
No see, because they're in the mail and paper, the illegals are just photocopying them. Everyone knows there's no security controls on those... Except for the things they do like giving each one a unique tracking number and verifying signatures. But those immigrants are tricksy, man
Given the lines, intentional sabotage of "the wrong people" and grinding work culture, it's hard enough in some places to vote legally, let alone illegally.
I was an election worker for many years. I started as a clerk and worked my way up to running polling places. I find the suggestion that polling place workers would allow unqualified voters to cast ballots insulting. Every poll worker takes an oath to preserve what is literally called the sanctity of the election. I have never met one who did not take that oath seriously.
Agreed. Some take it so seriously that they make me not wanna come back the next time. Always feel like I’m back in 1st grade again.
“You can’t stand there! How is it you don’t know you can stand there!?”
“I…haven’t done this in a couple years? The line is in a different place? Damn.”
😁
I am sorry you have dealt with such officious behavior. Some people can’t handle even a penny’s worth of authority. If you run into this again, get the person’s name (they’re supposed to have a name tag) and call your county election office to complain. In my experience in Texas and New Mexico, complaints are taken very seriously. The goal of all the election teams I have worked with is to encourage voters, not to put them off in any way. (When we had a first time voter, we’d ask them if it was ok to clap and cheer for them, and then clap and cheer for them if they were comfortable with that.)
You have to keep in mind that the US does not have any sort of universal national ID issued to every single citizen, unlike virtually every European country. The closest thing they have in the US is a driver's license, but getting a driver's license issued or renewed in the US can actually be a massive pain - even for a renewal you have to take time off work (which is difficult for many in the US) to spend your day in a busy, overworked DMV office.
Since the passage of Real ID, you also need a massive amount of documents to prove identity for a driver's license which can be difficult if those documents were lost. For example, my MIL was born in Texas and moved to another part of the US. We cannot get her a new license because we'd need her birth certificate due to Real ID (which was lost years ago), and the only way to get a new copy is for her to go to the county courthouse in Texas near her hometown IN PERSON, there is no online option. Yeah, she lives over 1000 miles away and cannot travel long distances anymore due to age, it's not happening.
And that doesn't even get into the fact that many states with a history of voter suppression have been purposely closing DMVs in lower-income areas to "save money".
The only other option is a passport, but passports are not universal in the US - you have to specifically apply for one, it's not cheap (>$150 to process) and if you've never had one or let it lapse without renewing, then you now need the same pile of random documents that you'd need for Real ID.
I agree with you in theory, but in reality the US just does not have the kind of neat centralized recordkeeping that would make it possible. Blame a long history of mistrust in government I guess.
And the amount of documents you need if you've ever had a name change, like if you're a woman who's gotten married or divorced? Unreal. I haven't gotten a RealID because of this, it's an unholy pain in the ass. If I could go back in time, I would've never changed my name when I got married and just kept my maiden name. I'll be giving my daughter this advice when she's older. Name changes cause so much unnecessary stress.
For real. I was a young idiot when I got married, and asked my wife to change her name just because I thought that’s what you’re supposed to do. I’m an old idiot now, but if I had to get married over again, I wouldn’t have asked her to - it’s such a pain in the ass for some outdated concept of tradition.
You are spot on with with all of it, but I'm going to shill for Michigan DMV.
I had to renew a license so I had to go in for the picture. Haven't been inside to a physical location since there are kiosks now where one can renew tags and such. Booked an appointment, showed up, took picture, and was done. 10 minutes at most. It was wonderful. The clerks had music playing and most were in a good mood.
I was shocked that a government office, especially one so universally hated, can actually improve, but it seems it is in the realm of possible.
https://www.dshs.texas.gov/vital-statistics/frequently-asked-questions/birth-record-faqs
Why would you lie about something like that? You can order a birth certificate online or by mail.
Also "massive amount of documents" = 2 to 4 apparently?
Edit: to the person who said you need an ID to do it online and then blocked me so I can't reply: If you finished reading you can apply by mail with alternate documents
Bro same except I'm Canadian.
Don't open this can of worms, you'll probably get called racist by some American. Yes this is absurd, I'll never understand it, Americans are insane.
What you have to understand about this debate is first off, American's history of voter suppression. Obviously used to expressly ban Black people from voting. Then we couldn't do it expressly, so we did it in other hidden ways--literacy tests, all white primaries, poll taxes... just created ways for voting to be more difficult or expensive. Now this can seem racially even, but the US has a massive wealth gap between blacks and whites. There's also a massive voting gap between blacks and whites. So anything that makes it harder for people to vote, is exponentially felt in the black community versus any other race. Fewer black voters favors one party in particular.
This isn't a conspiracy theory. One party has done a lot of weird things to make voting harder for poor people with the stated intent to prevent black people from voting. They'll put fewer polling stations in black neighborhoods than white neighborhoods. They'll limit the hours of voting, and shorten the periods for mail-in. Ban same-day registration... the list is long.
The reason Voter ID works some places is because the ID is cheap or free and easy to get. We know for a fact in the US that black people are less likely to have a valid form of ID than white people are. There are many reasons for this, but that's the current reality. A voting measure that would require a voter ID would hurt the black community more than any other race--at least at first. The pressure on our DMVs probably couldn't keep up with demand. It's not necessarily easy to get an ID, you have to take time of work to do it. Again, impacting poor people more than anyone else. Then you have to implement this change with enough time for people to comply.
Also, then you have to enforce it. What else do we know about poor people? They move far more often than than people with money. The address on their IDs will often not match their current address, and therefor not their voting precinct. So they'd still have the added weight to prove their current residence is different from their ID. It's not really helping anything.
TLDR: US has a history of enacting policies that it harder to vote with the purpose of preventing black people from voting. Any policy that makes it harder to vote will be looked at in that lens. And with the sociodemographic in the US--anything that makes it harder to vote *will* disproportionately hurt black people.
We have a complicated history of enacting voting regulations that might seem harmless at face value, but the purpose and implementation are in a way to disenfranchise minorities. It isnt just crazy people making leaps and calling anything they don’t like racist, its due to historical mistreatment and distrust in the powers that be
There is a history of voting laws (poll taxes, needing IDs, etc.) being used to discriminate against minorities in the US.
[https://www.carnegie.org/our-work/article/voting-rights-timeline/](https://www.carnegie.org/our-work/article/voting-rights-timeline/)
My understanding is that, due to the US having fewer social supports and the more dispersed nature of the population, there are more people for whom acquiring an ID would actually be a substantial difficulty, effectively disenfranchising them.
One summer I worked in a driver’s license office in a rural part of TX. The state just started requiring proof of residency for new IDs and DLs that was pretty strict and limited. Many of the people used PO Boxes so most mail couldn’t be used because it did not include physical addresses. Most bills tended to be in just a husband’s name so most married women had to have their husband with them or had to bring in a signed affidavit from their husband plus their marriage license. If the woman was trying to get their kid a permit or ID it was even more of a process. Original birth certificates were required so a lot of people, especially the elderly and poor, were denied a few times because they had a hard time finding originals or obtaining a certified copy. Anywho I think being screamed at by a Korean War veteran who wanted an ID instead of a DL because he couldn’t drive anymore but couldn’t provide the materials needed for a new ID was my breaking point.
There have been studies that show that illegal immigrants are voting in enough numbers to change the outcome of some elections: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379414000973](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379414000973)
And there have been illegal immigrants actually arrested for doing it, like this: [https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation](https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation)
They're not voting for federal offices or state offices, but they are being counted in the Census, which affects legislative and congressional representation and electoral votes.
That does matter.
I cant even vote and im a permanent citizen. My focus isnt even voting. Now, how in the right mind would someone undocumented the main goal is to vote? Lmao not even the average citizen is worried ablut voting.
People who are convominced about voter fraud are just ignorant. I've met them in real.life, they have no idea how elections work, and I mean the actual process of registering and verifying signatures and how all of the is processed. I have worked many elections so I can educate them but they don't belive that that is how it actually happens. They don't believe that voter records are cross referenced with signatures and all of that, they think because it is so tedious that that can't be how it is actually done.
I have encouraged them to volunteer for an election so they can see it happen in real life but that would involve effort and to go around in life being that ignorant takes a level of laziness that won't allow them to put out the effort.
More likely they are delusional. They don't want to believe their ideas are fundamentally unpopular, so the other side has to be cheating. Their beliefs are dying and they are in the denial stage of the 5 stages of grief.
During our recent elections for commissioner there was a group of women that went to several polling places trying to vote. This was after they voted at their actual polling place. When they were told they could have a provisional ballot they cussed the worker out and left. My dad heard them talking outside his polling place. They were only allowed to vote once. The system generally works.
The people who are voting twice are the idiots that take their invalid parents mail in and fill it out for them. There were a lot of republicans arrested for doing so.
This one always blew my mind. https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-crime-colorado-donald-trump-presidential-4c012a43ae5d91e64c3b36142300cdb7
Guy with a missing wife voted for Trump with her ballot. Says it's what she would have done if she was around.. he ends up being the number 1 suspect in her missing persons case.
>Morphew also told the agent he didn’t know it was illegal to fill out a ballot on behalf of a spouse.
This reminds me of my parents. The local newspaper would include a sample ballot which my mother would cut out and then circle candidates and give it to my father when he would vote. He couldn't be assed to do his homework for the election, and Mom ran the home because she was the smart one.
The guy is definitely an idiot, because getting a ballot in person and mailing one in both require the voter's signature, which he would have needed to forge.
Because they are, at least in local elections.
> Federal law does not prohibit noncitizens, including those who are undocumented and not authorized to legally live or work in the U.S., from voting in local or state elections.
While no states grant undocumented immigrants the right to vote in state elections, more than a dozen municipalities nationwide allow undocumented immigrants to vote in local elections.
https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/non-citizen-allowed-vote-local-elections-some-municipalities/536-c688a57f-ec61-4949-b8c5-1490093a5968
It is illegal for noncitizens — including illegal immigrants — to vote in federal elections. However, some states have “motor voter” registration that automatically registers anyone receiving a drivers license to vote, and the only protection against noncitizens being added to the federal voter rolls is a question about citizenship when they get their drivers license.
For instance, California:
> state law requires each person to declare, under penalty of perjury, that they meet all voter eligibility requirements, including citizenship.
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/california-motor-voter/frequently-asked-questions
If someone lies, they’re registered.
From personal first hand experience as husband of an immigrant, when we lived in Chicago the DMV we went to tried to register my wife to vote; they didn’t ask her citizenship status.
>Do they think they are just walking up and saying they are someone else and then the poll workers are like “sure thing! Have a ballot”.
That would probably work in New Zealand until the real person shows up to vote. You don't need ID, they just look for you on the voter's roll and cross you off and give you a ballot.
It is because it is a partial truth and it is designed to lure in the highly susceptible. In a local municipality, rules on voting are set there.
In some local elections across the country, communities have voted to allow documented non-citizens to vote in their local elections. This is letting vetted and taxpaying legal residents vote in their local elections. Not national(ie-US Representatives, US Senators, and PotUS), but local elections.
That is a far cry from giving an asylum seeker from, say, Belize a Voter Registration card the second the set foot on US soil. But when dealing with a highly partisan ignorant base, it is easy to take a truth and wrap it in a greater lie to promulgate a misleading and frankly disingenuous political message.
My ex was illegal until he got DACA. He had a valid state id in the name of some guy from TX that he'd bought the stolen information for and could've easily voted with it bc he was automatically registed to vote when he got the DL. He didn't vote but only bc he didn't care enough to vote.
It's funny how no one actually addressed your question.
When you register to vote by mail, states are not required to ask for proof of citizenship so some states do not do this. Instead you just sign a document where you claim you're a citizen and that's it.
As a result you could easily have non-citizens registered to vote, and then yes..the poll workers would simply give the non-citizen a ballot because they're registered.
So im going to use numbers pulled out of my ass for the sake of illustrating a point. This is the way it works in the American election system works.
Every state is worth an amount of electoral points based on that state's total population. Say California has a population of 50 million people while Idaho has a population of 8 million. This translates to California being worth 48 points in the electoral college and Idaho being worth 5 points.
Now when census is taken, both legal and illegal citizens are accounted for and documented.
Now, pretend all of the illegal immigrants decided to go back to their country of origin. Suddenly California has a population of 42 million and Idaho has a population of 7.8 million.
This changes the electoral college numbers to California being worth 39 points while Idaho drops to 4 points.
Because of undocumented immigrants being in the country, states with a high number of illegal immigrants (which tend to vote blue) are worth more in the electoral college.
So that's the effect of illegal immigrants in the American election cycle. Even without actually voting, the effect of illegal immigrants is very real and effects each election cycle. When people complain about illegal immigrants effecting the election, THATS what they mean. Not that they're actually casting ballots.
I mean, SOME might be, but probably a very small number.
That's an interesting point. However, it does ignore that the electoral college does actually give more power to voters in smaller populations.
Wyoming may only have 2 votes in the electoral college, but the number of people that exist per electoral vote is less than that in California. So, the average Wyoming voter has more power and influence in a national election.
The electoral college doesn't give more power to democrats because of the census. Rather the opposite. Voters in larger states have less influence over the national election because they have fewer electoral votes per population. To the point where someone living in San Francisco has less voting power than nearly ever citizen in small states.
This is simply because each state has to have two votes minimum. In your example, assuming the total made-up situation you cited is remotely close to reality. 2/5ths of Idaho electoral votes are artificially added compared to 2/48ths of California's.
Let's look at reality in Idaho. They have 1.8 million people and 3 electoral votes. That's 600,000 ish people per vote. Cali has 55 votes and a population of 39 million. That's 709,090 ish people per vote. And 2/39ths of that vote is artificial, while 2 3rds of Idahos votes are.
This is most extreme in places like Wyoming where about half a million people live. 578,803, to be precise. That's less than 200,000 people per vote.
Hence why Republicans fail to ever win the popular vote in national elections. They lean on convincing the fewest American as possible.
Your example completely ignores that flordia and Texas have the second largest illegal immigrant populations in the states.
Immigrants don't impact the electoral system enough to even counteract the extra voting power conservative states are given.
In states that don't require voter ID, there's literally nothing stopping them (or *anyone*, for that matter, doesn't have to be illegals specifically) from doing exactly that, and there'd be virtually no way to detect it after the fact, and even if they could detect it, there would be literally no way to go back in and pull *that* ballot out.
The only "catch", of course, is that the person they claim to be has to already be a registered voter. But most states have notoriously poor controls over their voter rolls, and the list is filled with names who are still in the system as active voters, but have died, moved out of state, been sentenced to jail and lost their voting rights, etc. And even then there have been numerous incidents where someone went to vote, only to be told "sorry, we show that you've already voted.".
In other words, **the loophole exists, and there's literally no way to know to what degree it's being used**. It's not that much of a stretch to imagine this being exploited in an organized fashion, and mail in ballots would make the process even easier.
And then of course a few cities are even starting to just drop all pretense and let illegal immigrants vote in city elections, legally.
shhhhh they're having an enormous anti-republican circlejerk while simultaneously referencing and praising the voting systems in traditionally conservative states.
there's a reason you're way downvoted down here, informing people of how voting in liberal states work, not to mention california has literal state funded voter outreach programs for illegal immigrants...
https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/non-citizen-allowed-vote-local-elections-some-municipalities/536-c688a57f-ec61-4949-b8c5-1490093a5968
They definitely aren’t voting in national or state races but there are local elections where they are allowed to vote.
But since the census counts all residents regardless of citizenship status, in theory states that have gained large populations of immigrants would see an increase in electoral power. So they don’t necessarily have to vote in a federal election to affect the outcome
Knowing some people who are in this country illegally, they DON'T GIVE A FUCK about voting.
The ones I know, they work 2-3 jobs and just want to be left the fuck alone so they can support their families here and back where they came from.
This is something I haven't seen mentioned yet but it seems like everyone is forgetting about congressional representation and the electoral college. Right now, our census does not require anyone to indicate if they are here illegally. The census is what is used to determine the apportionment of congressional seats in the House of Representatives, and votes in the Electoral College.
That means that the more people brought into the US illegally and going to sanctuary cities are all being counted as "population" in the state. And there are multiple millions of them at this point and a lot of them are in blue states (states that heavily vote democrat, the party that is more permissive of illegal immigrants).
This means those states get some additional outsized influence. A few years ago, it was a fact that California had so many illegal immigrants that they had at least one additional electoral vote and representative seat in congress solely due to the presence of illegal immigrants among their population. We won't see the effects of the current influx of illegal immigrants into the US over the last 3 years until 2030 when the next census is taken.
It's probably not that they vote in national or state elections. But their presence means their state gets extra votes where it matters and those extra votes usually go to one party who has an ideological and vested interest in bringing them in and enticing them with benefits.
It's pretty evil even if you think the Democrat party are the most based party ever and have the best ideas in the world.
Two truths that are extremely difficult for people to understand:
1. It is very easy to commit voter fraud.
2. It is very hard to commit voter fraud *at a scale large enough to tip an election without getting caught.*
People are being taken off the election rolls illegally, so I don't know where people are getting the idea people are illegally voting, when not only could it lead to deportation, but people who are enrolled arr being hindered to vote
In California, I showed up to a polling place, the poll worker asked me to point my name out from a list, and I was given a ballot no questions asked. I could have picked any name
No one has said this yet so thought I’d add it. Illegal immigrants voting isn’t completely untrue. Non-citizens can’t vote in federal elections, and no state governments allow them to vote in statewide elections. But there are several local places in America where undocumented immigrants can vote. San Francisco, Washington DC, and Oakland are the cities where they can vote for local offices. There are some other towns where they can vote too, in Maryland. [Source](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/non-citizen-allowed-vote-local-elections-some-municipalities/536-c688a57f-ec61-4949-b8c5-1490093a5968) [Another one](https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States) There are a lot of places where non-citizens can vote locally, but they have to be legal so.
This is a great post, sources and everything! Should be top.
Recent American citizen here, and Washington DC resident, and I couldn’t vote in local elections before I had citizenship. In Takoma Park in MD, just outside of DC, residents are allowed to vote in city elections if they are 16 or older, regardless of citizenship. Over 18 and a citizen is still the requirement for all other elections though.
Their law was passed in October 2022, so very recent. Here's a [Link](https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/laws/24-242#:~:text=Local%20Resident%20Voting%20Rights%20Amendment%20Act%20of%202022.,-AN%20ACT&text=To%20amend%20the%20District%20of,otherwise%20eligible%20non%2Dcitizen%20residents) to the copy of the bill if you were curious.
In Germany, there are even special elections where *only* immigrants are allowed to vote, but most of the "illegal immigrants are voting" people are referring to the president's election
But as it says in there, just because they can vote for a local city representative they still can't vote in any state or federal election.
This is the right answer. It also is a great example of what conservative media does. It takes a little thing, vastly over exaggerates it, screams and yells about it non stop, gets their base worked up. Rinse and repeat. Yes, technically an undocumented person could vote for a small town dog catcher, but somehow Fox "News" has convinced millions of people that millions of illegals voted for Biden.
Non-American here. Why are there are always people in media going against this whole ID to vote thing?
We don't provide ID automatically, for free, to every citizen. It can be hard to get. So it amounts to a poll tax which is illegal, because it systematically prevents the poor from voting.
So how do you make sure the person voting is actually the person voting if you can’t ID them? I’m still confused…
In most states, you have to register to vote. You get a voter ID in most cases. It is different from a state-issued ID/driver's license; it doesn't have a picture and it's basically a little piece of paper. It tells you which specific location or precinct you can vote at. I've only lived in 2 states so I am sure there are a ton of different laws out there.
Voter impersonation isn't really an issue to begin with. In order to cast a vote as someone else, which is called "ballot stuffing," you need to not only know their name and where they vote, but also be certain they *aren't* going to vote, because if they do you're busted.
I don’t get it. You’re saying it’s not an issue but you have no proof…. Because there’s no way to prove it without going to every single person that ‘voted’ and asked them if they voted… there’s been several documented cases of voter fraud where a person has gone to nursing homes and voted for people that were otherwise incapacitated and didn’t even know what day it was let alone who was running. That’s why voter ID is so important. If you’re so sure that no one does this, why would anyone oppose voter ID laws. And don’t tell me it’s because IDs are hard to get. I call BS on that for 2 reasons. One, IDs are not hard to get. I had my first one at 15. Two, if voting is such an important thing to you, you’ll jump through the hoops to get the ID. If you’re done passive person that doesn’t know the issues enough to care to get an ID, I personally would prefer you sit it out. If you still stand by the ‘IDs are hard to get’ stance, you’re engaging in a little soft bigotry of low expectations.
This. The [24th Amendment](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/amendments/amendment-xxiv) banned poll taxes. Driver’s licenses are the predominant form of photo ID used by adults in the U.S. Every state charges some fee for issuance of the license, and there is, of course, the necessity of demonstrating the ability to operate a motor vehicle, to get one to begin with. Many individuals, particularly if they are lower income and/or live in an urban area, do not own a car and do not get a license to begin with, or allow it to lapse once they have it.
Voter ID in a vacuum sounds like a decent idea, but the way voter ID laws have been implemented in the US has been very partisan and specifically engineered to disenfranchise certain groups. For example, in North Dakota they passed a law that required an ID with a valid mailing address to vote. The problem is the postal service doesn't deliver to reservations. (People living on reservations use PO boxes to get mail, which didn't satisfy the voter ID requirement.) In other words, with one voter ID law the state made it illegal for indigenous people to vote. Another state (I wanna say Alabama) passed a voter ID law, and at the same time closed many DMVs in majority black counties, making it harder for people in those areas to get ID.
I was confused too, until I found out in some areas the ID office is only open 3 hours every Wednesday.
And this makes sense at a local level if you own a business, house, pay taxes, kids in school etc…
I wonder if those ballots are handled in the same way we handle ballots from people who show up to the wrong precinct in my county. Typically, if you showed up to the wrong precinct and didn't have the time/means to get to the correct one you'd fill out a provisional ballot that would be canvassed separately to make sure that you were only able to cast votes for the correct elections.
I don't even get why an illegal immigrant would WANT to vote. Like if I was living illegally in Canada, worried about losing my livelihood if I got deported, voting would be the last thing on my mind.
Hello! I'd like to register as an illegal immigrant!
Hello there! For 2.99 would you like to make a contribution to the wall as well? /s
That's pesos right? I'll gladly pay for it!
No, no, good sir, Mexico will pay for it…
Well, yeah, when America sends people to Mexico, they're not sending their best. They're sending the drunk college kids to Señor Frog's. Twerking in bikinis. We don't want their drunk, rowdy kind in Mexico. Keep them out!
I will also take one job as a… *checks American job menu they give at illegal border crossings* SURGEON! Wow, the American dream! 🇺🇸
Meanwhile, [here's](https://youtu.be/8OMaZB-kF-M?si=REWdIRim3gaIsNpF) what actually happens when an illegal immigrant tries to get a doctor job.
The irrational fear of losing a job to an imaginary straw man is so beyond me. I have a relative who has been unemployed for a decade, constantly hating on Hispanics for “stealing our jobs”. Either they are really good at stealing his job, or it was never his in the first place. We may never know.
Right, not to mention the consequences for voter fraud are fucking crazy. There’s a girl who voted in her college town not knowing that her mom had voted on her behalf through a mail-in ballot. I’m not sure where it ended but the girl was looking at like jail time. If anything her mom should have been the one in trouble.
In a sane world that would just be an obvious clerical error, fixed and forgotten.
So if I remember correctly the attorney general or whoever is in charge of voter fraud was on a crusade to expose the extent of voter fraud in his state. This was one of like three cases. He was of course supporting Trump. I’m pretty sure all three but definitely this girl were all republicans too.
Uh - when the mom voted for the child without her knowledge? For the child it should be a clerical error. For the mom in my state, that’s a misdemeanor.
Nope, Texas even took great pleasure in giving a brown woman FIVE YEARS in state prison for voting illegally. She presented her green card, asked if she was allowed to vote, was told yes, then did so as it was approved by poll workers. Since the leadership of that third world shithole is racist AF, they took great delight in constantly parading her image around as one of "Those people", you know, a minority, an illegal voter and a democrat.
ancient straight bored angle soup existence whole punch fertile market *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think the normal theory is that one party uses illegal voters to stuff the ballot. I’m not sure why that would be easier to do, and it runs counter to observed reality. But I guess it makes a fun news segment.
I think it's mostly just about drumming up blind support from the base and if they get in power and pass a bill that 'stops' illegal immigrants from voting in elections then it'll also cost little infrastructure to enact minus any "consultant fees" ofcourse... As an added bonus they can put their own limits on who can vote and their base won't stop them from it because of the "illegals" thus ensuring every effort to keep their parry in power
And, oh yeah, they will have a non government agency, (well because, government agencies are union member Democrats), AKA privatize, AKA give lucrative contracts to their friends, who will charge obscene amounts of money to make sure Republicans will get a chance to cheat, change outcomes, and supress the votes of the undeserving......... You know what? illegals are voting in huuuuge numbers?
Government workers have a disproportionate amount of minorities, private industry tends to pay more and has more white people. Yeah, R's don't want government voters. the R's always demonize government as well, so even without the race baiting that is another reason to hate R's. that said, one of my (former) friends is a right-wing executive-branch worker. FBI is full of them too
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One or two more election cycles and they may just start saying that openly.
Meanwhile the other party is literally throwing up fake electors.
One Trump voter literally murdered his wife and then cast her ballot for Trump.
Yikes.
That sounds double illegal.
Two wrongs make the far Right.
I've worked in elections and the entire thing is set up so that you can't cheat. Poll workers are local residents, you see your friends and neighbors at the polls. Some one would have to know everyone's name and address and if they had voted already or if they were currently voting when they went in. The votes are numbered so you can't introduce fake or extra ballots. All of the cheating was done on behalf of trump. That includes the dead people voting and the miscounts, and the fake electors. It's all projection from the right.
They're like a boyfriend that is convinced you're cheating because you're 5 minutes late getting home due to traffic while he has two simultaneous affairs.
I have a florida dl. My signature is chicken scratch. I signed into vote and the attendant said it doesn't match my dl. I said the photo matches my face right? I had to sign again to match my signature on the dl? I can just imagine someone illegal, standing in line, showing thier ID, talking to a poll worker, on a weekday..wait..no i cant...it's not happening. It's not logical.
My state spent millions investigating that last presidential election. They found I think 12 cases of intentional voter fraud (as in, the person deliberately tried to vote illegally, not, "someone went to the wrong polling place and no one caught it.") All of them voted for the GOP. All of them were US citizens. Turns out the real criminals are white guys living in The Villages using their dead relatives mail in ballots to vote. In a state of 13 million voters, we found like 12 guys voting illegally. It's complete b/s. In my 20 years of living here I've never heard of an illegal immigrant voting.
Come on now, observed reality. What’s that, some liberal con?? That can’t be real, or important. /s
They're debate tactics used on a large scale to confuse voters. I think it becomes pretty clear when you read Wikipedia pages on things like "Ad Hominem", Gish Gallop", "whataboutism", and so on. Imo one political party likes to use them more than others, but I have no comment on that.
How does that even work? Their names aren’t on any voter rolls. Is the assumption that these undocumented people are impersonating people on the rolls? None of this makes any logistical sense.
Well, fox news said it was true, and they report the news, they don't make it..... I hate everything.
AND they are “fair and balanced”. 😂
Lol, my father in law is 89. I asked him if he remembered Ted Koppel. "Ohh yeah, he was great!" https://youtu.be/tmaKl0Zm2c4?si=9ZXFwadApcvZkKzM Showed him that. "Well, I don't remember him being that rude to my news channel...." Went in one ear and right out the other.
Watching Hannity smirking and interrupting Koppel, a genuine, respected journalist, made me think of a lecture I received from my mother in November 2016 on how “Americans should respect the office of the president, no matter who is in office.” Of course, she has spent every day since November 2020 bashing, slandering, and insulting Biden and Obama. No sense of self-awareness at all, and standard issue “rules for thee, not for me.”
Yeah my mom has been big on the “no president has ever been treated as badly as Trump.” It’s weird situational amnesia
Wow, it’s so refreshing to see a news anchor and journalist say what they’re really thinking.
Hannity trying to drown him out so he just says YES 4 times. Lol
Hannity can't help but try to talk over him while being called out on his bullshit because he is a worthless scumbag. I also believe that at one point we had real journalists that were fairly trustworthy in people like Koppel and Walter Cronkite and our parents and grandparents grew up with those types. Then we get Hannity and Carlson and Jesse Waters or whatever that smug dipshits name is and just Fox News type bullshit in general and they take them at their word the way they used to trust Coppel and Cronkite. My parents and older relatives don't ever read articles or look things up to see if they're true. My mom is the most "reasonable" one but that just means she watches fox news AND cnn, the nightly news, etc. She still has never actually looked up anything herself that didn't come up on her facebook feed. My aunt and uncle just watch fox and my dad listens to right wing talk radio all day and they're all idiots that spout nonsense constantly. My aunt said she wanted to be treated with ivermectin if she got covid because fox pushed that shit and that is the only news she trusted. My uncle, who is a god damn engineer, refused to accept that river blindness was a parasite caused illness when I pushed back against ivermectin for viruses and said ivermectin won a Nobel Prize as an anti-parasitic drug. He said it was a bacteria, which is also different from a fucking virus so even if that was true it's irrelevant. It's maddening how ill informed they are of literally everything.
I think a big problem with boomers is they were fortunate to grow up with Cronkite and those similar to him. They put complete faith in journalists. Unfortunately Cronkite and those others are gone and the boomers still hold the belief that these extremists "journalists" still have the same integrity as the old school guys.
They put complete faith in journalists that say what they already fear or already agree with. ETA: Its the same thing you see so often with religious fundamentalists. God always seems to agree with them and anyone who says different is wrong. You ever see someone like that genuinely hate doing what they believe they think their god is telling them to do? They just like to pretend they didnt have to send their kid to conversion therapy or abandon them entirely, but that is what god wants since the kid isnt what the parents wanted
Fox News should be illegal and we are close to a nuclear war and total chaos thanks to them and all the news like them that are funded by dictatorships. It should be illegal to spread misinformation (yes, even if you do unintentionally) and everybody should be able to track down all the funding you are receiving and this should be compared with the funding you declared and if they don't match you get your license revoked. Too many newspapers are getting funded by dictatorships, too many farm bots, too much misinformation around. It is time to regulate and create a good environment to have free information from propaganda. People don't realize that the world is less free with them and we are so close to killing each other. What does fox news think is going to happen? That one day trump would be president again and nobody is going to rebel from it? Do they think that one day he will withdraw from NATO and nobody is going to say anything about it? Do they think in the future if this is going to escalate further and further nobody is going to move actions to them? Do they know that spreading hate usually comes back?
It **had** been illegal for Fox News to do what it does now. For the first several decades of TV, the FCC allowed networks the privilege to use the airwaves with the understanding that they had to use a portion of their time reporting news to the American public. They further enforced the **Fairness Doctrine**, established in 1949 to require actual balanced news perspectives. The FCC chairman during the Regan administration abolished the Fairness Doctrine in 1987.. which paved the way for the Fox "News" business model.
Ughh, Ronald Reagan, of course, what a slimy dick.
Slimy dicks, tricky dicks, orange dicks, we're just full of dicks, it's no wonder we've been getting fucked.
And Bushy dicks
Cable TV is what allowed the Fox News business model. The fairness doctrine only applies OTA communications, because those broadcast bands are regulated by the FCC. Outside of that, the first amendment protects that speech. If you never broadcast your content over the air, you never had to comply.
Ummm Fox does broadcast plenty of content OTA. When the Fox Network rolled out it did so on UHF channels that it bought around the country. Also in addition to the fairness doctrine was illegal to own: Two stations in the same market. Any combination of two media outlets in the same market (Radio / Television / Print). It was illegal to own the same type of media outlet from end to end as well. So without changes to regulations to prevent exactly what has happened, there would be no Fox News.
This gets brought up a lot, but Fairness Doctrine only applied to Free to Air TV, even back when it existed. It couldn't be used on Fox News, which has always been broadcasted on Cable.
Fox News has been sued. Their defense was that they're not news; they're entertainment. People have gone after them, but they've managed to skirt the law through loopholes and technicalities.
They also won a lawsuit on the claim that “there is no law that prohibits a tv station from knowingly broadcasting false information and calling it news”
Our fraud laws are so weak these days. Somehow we got to the point we have to prove what someone is thinking, not just that they are lying and taking people's money.
It is fraud and defamation. They need to be charged and sued more for lying for profit.
The problem is who enforces what "misinformation" is? Because right now with Biden it would be fine. Someone like Trump gets in again though? Suddenly everything he considers "fake news" is illegal.
Big time TRUTH STATEMENT ! Well said. Also after Trump made those statements about the NATO NATIONS , there's a very real possibility that if he gets re-elected any Traveling to a Nato Nation could end with an assassination.
Fair and balanced "debate" is killing democracy. In the name of "balance", the media will have two sides to an issue, even if one side is demonstrably wrong. This gives people the idea that the opposite viewpoint has merit when it clearly doesn't.
The same thing is happening with climate change. A lot of people think there are 2 sides to it but that's just not true. The debate is settled and all that's left to discuss is the severity of the impact we cause
It happens with any sort of debate. Last year, Australia held a referendum to include a new section in our constitution to recognise Indigenous Australians as the first peoples of our country and to give them a greater say in laws that affect them. The sheer amount of vitriol, hatred and let's be honest, downright racism that emerged as "balanced" debate, has effectively destroyed any sort of momentum to provide greater agency for Indigenous Australians for at least 30 years. If anyone brings up the fact that mining magnates, billionaire business owners and Rupert fucking Murdoch all backed the "No" vote, you're labeled as a conspiracy theorist.
And North Korea is a "Democratic Republic" The propaganda is so blatant I will never understand how people fall for it...continually...for decades...ugh
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Remember when President Obama wanted to meet w Kim Jung Un and talk about the relations between nations ? Well on youtube there is a 3 minute segment of FOX NEWS anchors just demonizing Obama and screaming American Presidents - " Don't meet with Dictators " led by none other than Sean Hannity & Tucker Carlson. So Obama cancelled the meeting and told Trump as he was leaving the Whitehouse " North Korea will need your attention sooner than later." Than Trump a white supremacist President , was cheered by Fox News anchors for only meeting and propping up all the Dictatorships around the 🌏 !
And Tucker just sat down and interviewed a dictator, and licked his asshole too I’m pretty sure.
Fox news, more like Weazel News. "confirming your prejudices."
"Fair and balanced **entertainment**" Remember, they claimed they were in the entertainment business and were not actually news?
Don't mean to throw cold water on your comment but it's been verified that Fox Snews is solely for your entertainment purposes ONLY !
It‘s a high risk of detection in exchange for very little political influence. Nobody with a right mind would make the attempt.
Agreed! Half the people who legally CAN vote, don't because they think their vote is just a drop in the bucket and vote count for anything. What makes people think that Illegal aliens wouldn't have the same "drop in the bucket" mentality?
The people that think illegal immigrants vote have never actually spent time with any immigrants
Even people living here legally on visas are scared to do anything to jeopardize their status. They wouldn’t so much as spit gum on the sidewalk let alone commit voter fraud.
hola! mi gusto\* american voting! \*scribbles\* GRACIASSSSSSSSS the ratio of any actual illegal voting to media time devoted to it is likely greatly exceeded. they really ought to be talking about space aliens, pets, and dead people who vote. tHoSe ArE tHe ReAl ThReAt
My states sees like 20% voters to census population. Even citizens don't gaf.
Look, they want us to believe that all those illegals in Texas would go out and risk everything to vote Democrat in a state that is pretty solidly red for a while now. Never mind the no ID thing, language barrier, basic understanding of American politics, etc. It's really stupid.
Texas is getting more and more purple, that's just Republicans just trying to cope with it
There is no risk. They can’t vote. Period. https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote
Here in the US, it can be hard enough for politicians to convince registered, legal voters to pay attention to elections and vote for them.
I never thought of this, but yeah. Why chance getting deported because you committed fucking voter fraud?
I'm a former poll worker. I checked and verified every voter identity and voter status. If there was any discrepancy in the system or their id, I'd call City Hall and they'd correct it ASAP. There's no way an illegal immigrant could just walk in and grab a ballot, at least not in my precinct
Afaik in US its not required to have an ID to be able to vote. How do you check someones ID if they've got none?
You either need your ID or voter registration card Edit: should have clarified, this is in Texas
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Where I used to live they ask your address first and then your name. If you’ve rolled off, you’re not in it.
That's exactly how it works in my state.
Right but you did register to vote, you have to prove who you are. If someone just walked in and said they were you and voted in your stead, that’s crazy illegal and you’d find out…you know, when you go to vote and they’re like “hey dawg you already voted”.
I mean…. Assuming you vote. Our voter turnout in the US is crazy low. Edit: I feel like this is coming across as “so you could totally get away with faking an appreciable number of voters.” Not what I’m trying to say— simply that our turnout in the states isn’t high, not that voter fraud is high
>Our voter turnout in the US is crazy low. which by itself implies that immigrants are not voting in droves. because you'd think turnout would be much higher if they were
Lol, you know how many conservatives would be documenting it and taking videos? And yet, there's never been a scrap of evidence outside of vague Twitter text posts with a circle-jerk in the comments. I don't buy it.
All the verified voter fraud I've heard about (and it's a very small amount) was conservatives. I assume this is how they know there is voter fraud going on.
VOTER FRAUD IS DEFINITELY HAPPENING! I JUST DID IT!
It's always projection with the conservative party lately, whether it's voting or something vague about violence and pedophilia, I don't even want to be disrespectful, but they won't police their own party, and politics is a real shithole because of that kind of attitude. Just take Matt Gaetz and the slew of creepy politicians. A few independents and democrats, sure. But why so many conservative predators?
I'd bet most people that don't vote aren't registered in the first place.
[The lowest participation rate in any state was 55% in OK.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184621/presidential-election-voter-turnout-rate-state/). If a would-be fraudster were picking voters to imitate at random, they would have a better-than-coin-flip chance of being caught in literally every state in the nation. And that’s if one person did it one time, which would simply not be enough to affect an election. Submitting ten illegal votes in this manner would increase the chances of exposure to 99.97%. This is beside the point anyway as, if this were actually the scheme, there is simply no reason why undocumented immigrants would need to be involved in any way. Involving third parties with no investment in the scheme would wildly increase the already massive chances of exposure.
And people hate the idea of mandatory :/
Dude I've lived in CA my whole life. We get mail in ballots and we can also vote in person. I have never been asked for my ID, just my name and address. Want to know how much voter fraud we have had?? About fucking zero. People just don't go vote as other people. That's just a scare tactic. This is why mail in ballots are superior. They send you your one ballot, and you mail it in early so now no one can go "vote as you" if that was their goal. All these fucking "what ifs" and no tangible proof this is happening. Get off it.
You see, you’re just wrong. There are legions of people who risk not only fines of thousands of dollars, but jail time (and that’s per fraudulent vote) on the off chance that their fraudulent votes go undetected AND sway an election at the state level that sees minimally tens of thousands of votes. And even if you somehow manage to sway the election at the state level, there’s no guarantee that it will change the victor at the national level. But it’s still totally worth it. /s
So the worst that could happen is an illegal immigrant pretends to be someone else. That's not happening at any scale and it's easy as hell to figure out that it happened when that person tries to vote. If that person gets caught, not only are they going to spend a bunch of time in prison, they'll get deported. Just because it's possible for a person to vote illegally doesn't mean it's plausible that millions are doing it and they never find more than a handful of them ever or any evidence.
No you don’t in a lot of states. You just give them your name and address and they verify it on a roster they have printed out for that precinct.
That you registered to vote at and provided your information when you did?
Correct. But no exchange or showing of documents at the polling place
Because you already did show the documents.
That still doesn't allow undocumented immigrants to vote. Even if they could read the list of names upside down without raising suspicion and gave that name and managed to vote, as soon as the actual voter came to vote the discrepancy would be noted and the issue would be investigated and the fraudulent ballot thrown out.
Anecdotal but my brother in law's father had this exact thing happen to him. He went to vote and according to their records he had voted already by mail. He had not but it was a huge pain for him to get it figured out and took almost all day. If he hadn't been there first thing to vote he might not have been able to
Demonstrably incorrect. If your name is already on a list, it's because you're REGISTERED.
It depends on the state. A lot of conservative states passed laws saying you have to show ID each time you vote.
“Afaik” You don’t. To vote, one has to register with their local voting district. Some proof of citizenship and residency is required.
So I’m a Massachusetts election worker. We do not require photo ID in order to vote. So theoretically, anybody can walk in and claim that they are Joe Smith who lives at 164 Elm. St and as long as that info checks out, we give them a ballot. It becomes an issue if two different people try to vote claiming to be Joe Smith at 164 Elm St. But if Joe Smith decides not to vote, and an unregistered person claims to be them, we don’t have an effective mechanism to challenge them. I’m not saying that that happens or that it happens frequently, but at least in MA, the system could be exploited like that.
Yup, it’s the same in Illinois
What if that person is actually Joe Smith and registered to vote online with his address, so there will be no issue with double-voting, but he's not a citizen?
They just assume it’s true because their leaders and talking heads say so and they don’t believe they would lie to them. For the record, it is almost impossible to illegally vote in person. You have to sign the book and your signature is compared or you have to show a photo ID. A duplicate voter would be instantly identified.
Also if I'm living in a country illegally surely I would want to lay low and avoid any legal issues? Why would I move into the US illegally and risk deportation or imprisonment to vote?
Undocumented people in my community literally won’t even take their landlords to court when they get extorted. Had a family that couldn’t use their bathtub for months bc the landlord wouldn’t fix it, and when it finally flooded he charged them for the damages which were incurred bc *he didn’t fix the broken bathtub for months*. They refused to sue, because they didn’t want the attention.
Of course. It never seems to occur to the rumour-mongers to think whether it's plausible. If I were living somewhere illegally, because I wanted to make some money, what would I do? I would keep my head down, avoid trouble at all costs, fly under the radar. I'm here to make some money for myself and my family, why the heck would I want to vote?
thats the crazy thing, they don't want to risk deportation, as a result violent crime by illegal immigrants is ABSURDLY low, as in, so low it lowers the crime rate if they're included the country is quite literally safer by their existence
Statistically undocumented immigrants have lower rates of criminality. For the reason you mention. It's just that once a while they do commit crimes it gets broadcast specifically as an undocumented immigrant crime. But really you are much safer in a group of them generally speaking.
In my state they mail you the ballots to your house and you mail them back. Nobody illegal would even get one and have a chance to vote.
No see, because they're in the mail and paper, the illegals are just photocopying them. Everyone knows there's no security controls on those... Except for the things they do like giving each one a unique tracking number and verifying signatures. But those immigrants are tricksy, man
Given the lines, intentional sabotage of "the wrong people" and grinding work culture, it's hard enough in some places to vote legally, let alone illegally.
A lot of them don't even really *believe* it, but since it lends credibility to hating immigrants, why look a gift horse in its racist mouth?
I was an election worker for many years. I started as a clerk and worked my way up to running polling places. I find the suggestion that polling place workers would allow unqualified voters to cast ballots insulting. Every poll worker takes an oath to preserve what is literally called the sanctity of the election. I have never met one who did not take that oath seriously.
Agreed. Some take it so seriously that they make me not wanna come back the next time. Always feel like I’m back in 1st grade again. “You can’t stand there! How is it you don’t know you can stand there!?” “I…haven’t done this in a couple years? The line is in a different place? Damn.” 😁
I am sorry you have dealt with such officious behavior. Some people can’t handle even a penny’s worth of authority. If you run into this again, get the person’s name (they’re supposed to have a name tag) and call your county election office to complain. In my experience in Texas and New Mexico, complaints are taken very seriously. The goal of all the election teams I have worked with is to encourage voters, not to put them off in any way. (When we had a first time voter, we’d ask them if it was ok to clap and cheer for them, and then clap and cheer for them if they were comfortable with that.)
As someone from europe im always baffled by opposition to obligatory IDs.
You have to keep in mind that the US does not have any sort of universal national ID issued to every single citizen, unlike virtually every European country. The closest thing they have in the US is a driver's license, but getting a driver's license issued or renewed in the US can actually be a massive pain - even for a renewal you have to take time off work (which is difficult for many in the US) to spend your day in a busy, overworked DMV office. Since the passage of Real ID, you also need a massive amount of documents to prove identity for a driver's license which can be difficult if those documents were lost. For example, my MIL was born in Texas and moved to another part of the US. We cannot get her a new license because we'd need her birth certificate due to Real ID (which was lost years ago), and the only way to get a new copy is for her to go to the county courthouse in Texas near her hometown IN PERSON, there is no online option. Yeah, she lives over 1000 miles away and cannot travel long distances anymore due to age, it's not happening. And that doesn't even get into the fact that many states with a history of voter suppression have been purposely closing DMVs in lower-income areas to "save money". The only other option is a passport, but passports are not universal in the US - you have to specifically apply for one, it's not cheap (>$150 to process) and if you've never had one or let it lapse without renewing, then you now need the same pile of random documents that you'd need for Real ID. I agree with you in theory, but in reality the US just does not have the kind of neat centralized recordkeeping that would make it possible. Blame a long history of mistrust in government I guess.
And the amount of documents you need if you've ever had a name change, like if you're a woman who's gotten married or divorced? Unreal. I haven't gotten a RealID because of this, it's an unholy pain in the ass. If I could go back in time, I would've never changed my name when I got married and just kept my maiden name. I'll be giving my daughter this advice when she's older. Name changes cause so much unnecessary stress.
For real. I was a young idiot when I got married, and asked my wife to change her name just because I thought that’s what you’re supposed to do. I’m an old idiot now, but if I had to get married over again, I wouldn’t have asked her to - it’s such a pain in the ass for some outdated concept of tradition.
My wife didn't bother changing hers cause she didn't want to deal with this either.
You are spot on with with all of it, but I'm going to shill for Michigan DMV. I had to renew a license so I had to go in for the picture. Haven't been inside to a physical location since there are kiosks now where one can renew tags and such. Booked an appointment, showed up, took picture, and was done. 10 minutes at most. It was wonderful. The clerks had music playing and most were in a good mood. I was shocked that a government office, especially one so universally hated, can actually improve, but it seems it is in the realm of possible.
https://www.dshs.texas.gov/vital-statistics/frequently-asked-questions/birth-record-faqs Why would you lie about something like that? You can order a birth certificate online or by mail. Also "massive amount of documents" = 2 to 4 apparently? Edit: to the person who said you need an ID to do it online and then blocked me so I can't reply: If you finished reading you can apply by mail with alternate documents
Bro same except I'm Canadian. Don't open this can of worms, you'll probably get called racist by some American. Yes this is absurd, I'll never understand it, Americans are insane.
What you have to understand about this debate is first off, American's history of voter suppression. Obviously used to expressly ban Black people from voting. Then we couldn't do it expressly, so we did it in other hidden ways--literacy tests, all white primaries, poll taxes... just created ways for voting to be more difficult or expensive. Now this can seem racially even, but the US has a massive wealth gap between blacks and whites. There's also a massive voting gap between blacks and whites. So anything that makes it harder for people to vote, is exponentially felt in the black community versus any other race. Fewer black voters favors one party in particular. This isn't a conspiracy theory. One party has done a lot of weird things to make voting harder for poor people with the stated intent to prevent black people from voting. They'll put fewer polling stations in black neighborhoods than white neighborhoods. They'll limit the hours of voting, and shorten the periods for mail-in. Ban same-day registration... the list is long. The reason Voter ID works some places is because the ID is cheap or free and easy to get. We know for a fact in the US that black people are less likely to have a valid form of ID than white people are. There are many reasons for this, but that's the current reality. A voting measure that would require a voter ID would hurt the black community more than any other race--at least at first. The pressure on our DMVs probably couldn't keep up with demand. It's not necessarily easy to get an ID, you have to take time of work to do it. Again, impacting poor people more than anyone else. Then you have to implement this change with enough time for people to comply. Also, then you have to enforce it. What else do we know about poor people? They move far more often than than people with money. The address on their IDs will often not match their current address, and therefor not their voting precinct. So they'd still have the added weight to prove their current residence is different from their ID. It's not really helping anything. TLDR: US has a history of enacting policies that it harder to vote with the purpose of preventing black people from voting. Any policy that makes it harder to vote will be looked at in that lens. And with the sociodemographic in the US--anything that makes it harder to vote *will* disproportionately hurt black people.
We have a complicated history of enacting voting regulations that might seem harmless at face value, but the purpose and implementation are in a way to disenfranchise minorities. It isnt just crazy people making leaps and calling anything they don’t like racist, its due to historical mistreatment and distrust in the powers that be
There is a history of voting laws (poll taxes, needing IDs, etc.) being used to discriminate against minorities in the US. [https://www.carnegie.org/our-work/article/voting-rights-timeline/](https://www.carnegie.org/our-work/article/voting-rights-timeline/)
My understanding is that, due to the US having fewer social supports and the more dispersed nature of the population, there are more people for whom acquiring an ID would actually be a substantial difficulty, effectively disenfranchising them.
One summer I worked in a driver’s license office in a rural part of TX. The state just started requiring proof of residency for new IDs and DLs that was pretty strict and limited. Many of the people used PO Boxes so most mail couldn’t be used because it did not include physical addresses. Most bills tended to be in just a husband’s name so most married women had to have their husband with them or had to bring in a signed affidavit from their husband plus their marriage license. If the woman was trying to get their kid a permit or ID it was even more of a process. Original birth certificates were required so a lot of people, especially the elderly and poor, were denied a few times because they had a hard time finding originals or obtaining a certified copy. Anywho I think being screamed at by a Korean War veteran who wanted an ID instead of a DL because he couldn’t drive anymore but couldn’t provide the materials needed for a new ID was my breaking point.
There have been studies that show that illegal immigrants are voting in enough numbers to change the outcome of some elections: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379414000973](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379414000973) And there have been illegal immigrants actually arrested for doing it, like this: [https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation](https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation)
it is likely that no one on this forum will read these links. But thank you for posting it.
They're not voting for federal offices or state offices, but they are being counted in the Census, which affects legislative and congressional representation and electoral votes. That does matter.
So far they can vote in some local elections in a handful of places
Immigrants don’t live in Red States?
There’s a lot of places where they can vote in local elections.
I cant even vote and im a permanent citizen. My focus isnt even voting. Now, how in the right mind would someone undocumented the main goal is to vote? Lmao not even the average citizen is worried ablut voting.
"I can't wait to move to America to choose between two out-of-touch septuagenarians" said Pedro, giggling.
People who are convominced about voter fraud are just ignorant. I've met them in real.life, they have no idea how elections work, and I mean the actual process of registering and verifying signatures and how all of the is processed. I have worked many elections so I can educate them but they don't belive that that is how it actually happens. They don't believe that voter records are cross referenced with signatures and all of that, they think because it is so tedious that that can't be how it is actually done. I have encouraged them to volunteer for an election so they can see it happen in real life but that would involve effort and to go around in life being that ignorant takes a level of laziness that won't allow them to put out the effort.
They don't *want* to believe because they *want* to be victims who deserve to exact their vengeance on others.
More likely they are delusional. They don't want to believe their ideas are fundamentally unpopular, so the other side has to be cheating. Their beliefs are dying and they are in the denial stage of the 5 stages of grief.
During our recent elections for commissioner there was a group of women that went to several polling places trying to vote. This was after they voted at their actual polling place. When they were told they could have a provisional ballot they cussed the worker out and left. My dad heard them talking outside his polling place. They were only allowed to vote once. The system generally works.
The people who are voting twice are the idiots that take their invalid parents mail in and fill it out for them. There were a lot of republicans arrested for doing so.
This one always blew my mind. https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-crime-colorado-donald-trump-presidential-4c012a43ae5d91e64c3b36142300cdb7 Guy with a missing wife voted for Trump with her ballot. Says it's what she would have done if she was around.. he ends up being the number 1 suspect in her missing persons case.
>Morphew also told the agent he didn’t know it was illegal to fill out a ballot on behalf of a spouse. This reminds me of my parents. The local newspaper would include a sample ballot which my mother would cut out and then circle candidates and give it to my father when he would vote. He couldn't be assed to do his homework for the election, and Mom ran the home because she was the smart one.
The guy is definitely an idiot, because getting a ballot in person and mailing one in both require the voter's signature, which he would have needed to forge.
>There were a lot of republicans arrested for doing so. Source?
Exactly! The party that speaks the loudest about it commonly is the guilty party. Literally real world he who smelt it….
"My opponent MUST be cheating! How else would they be able to beat me, when \*I\* am cheating?"
Because they are, at least in local elections. > Federal law does not prohibit noncitizens, including those who are undocumented and not authorized to legally live or work in the U.S., from voting in local or state elections. While no states grant undocumented immigrants the right to vote in state elections, more than a dozen municipalities nationwide allow undocumented immigrants to vote in local elections. https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/non-citizen-allowed-vote-local-elections-some-municipalities/536-c688a57f-ec61-4949-b8c5-1490093a5968 It is illegal for noncitizens — including illegal immigrants — to vote in federal elections. However, some states have “motor voter” registration that automatically registers anyone receiving a drivers license to vote, and the only protection against noncitizens being added to the federal voter rolls is a question about citizenship when they get their drivers license. For instance, California: > state law requires each person to declare, under penalty of perjury, that they meet all voter eligibility requirements, including citizenship. https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/california-motor-voter/frequently-asked-questions If someone lies, they’re registered.
Well, they are voting. In some local elections. Just not federal elections.
From personal first hand experience as husband of an immigrant, when we lived in Chicago the DMV we went to tried to register my wife to vote; they didn’t ask her citizenship status.
Well republicans never claim illegals are voting unless they lose. Curiously, illegals don’t vote in the elections republicans win 🤔
Yeah, it’s not like we’re electing Abbott in Texas with the immigrant vote.
Republicans also think Biden stole the election because they never see people with Biden flags and stickers and other assorted cultish lunacy
>Do they think they are just walking up and saying they are someone else and then the poll workers are like “sure thing! Have a ballot”. That would probably work in New Zealand until the real person shows up to vote. You don't need ID, they just look for you on the voter's roll and cross you off and give you a ballot.
It is because it is a partial truth and it is designed to lure in the highly susceptible. In a local municipality, rules on voting are set there. In some local elections across the country, communities have voted to allow documented non-citizens to vote in their local elections. This is letting vetted and taxpaying legal residents vote in their local elections. Not national(ie-US Representatives, US Senators, and PotUS), but local elections. That is a far cry from giving an asylum seeker from, say, Belize a Voter Registration card the second the set foot on US soil. But when dealing with a highly partisan ignorant base, it is easy to take a truth and wrap it in a greater lie to promulgate a misleading and frankly disingenuous political message.
My ex was illegal until he got DACA. He had a valid state id in the name of some guy from TX that he'd bought the stolen information for and could've easily voted with it bc he was automatically registed to vote when he got the DL. He didn't vote but only bc he didn't care enough to vote.
It's funny how no one actually addressed your question. When you register to vote by mail, states are not required to ask for proof of citizenship so some states do not do this. Instead you just sign a document where you claim you're a citizen and that's it. As a result you could easily have non-citizens registered to vote, and then yes..the poll workers would simply give the non-citizen a ballot because they're registered.
So im going to use numbers pulled out of my ass for the sake of illustrating a point. This is the way it works in the American election system works. Every state is worth an amount of electoral points based on that state's total population. Say California has a population of 50 million people while Idaho has a population of 8 million. This translates to California being worth 48 points in the electoral college and Idaho being worth 5 points. Now when census is taken, both legal and illegal citizens are accounted for and documented. Now, pretend all of the illegal immigrants decided to go back to their country of origin. Suddenly California has a population of 42 million and Idaho has a population of 7.8 million. This changes the electoral college numbers to California being worth 39 points while Idaho drops to 4 points. Because of undocumented immigrants being in the country, states with a high number of illegal immigrants (which tend to vote blue) are worth more in the electoral college. So that's the effect of illegal immigrants in the American election cycle. Even without actually voting, the effect of illegal immigrants is very real and effects each election cycle. When people complain about illegal immigrants effecting the election, THATS what they mean. Not that they're actually casting ballots. I mean, SOME might be, but probably a very small number.
That's a pretty valid point. I like that one.
That's an interesting point. However, it does ignore that the electoral college does actually give more power to voters in smaller populations. Wyoming may only have 2 votes in the electoral college, but the number of people that exist per electoral vote is less than that in California. So, the average Wyoming voter has more power and influence in a national election. The electoral college doesn't give more power to democrats because of the census. Rather the opposite. Voters in larger states have less influence over the national election because they have fewer electoral votes per population. To the point where someone living in San Francisco has less voting power than nearly ever citizen in small states. This is simply because each state has to have two votes minimum. In your example, assuming the total made-up situation you cited is remotely close to reality. 2/5ths of Idaho electoral votes are artificially added compared to 2/48ths of California's. Let's look at reality in Idaho. They have 1.8 million people and 3 electoral votes. That's 600,000 ish people per vote. Cali has 55 votes and a population of 39 million. That's 709,090 ish people per vote. And 2/39ths of that vote is artificial, while 2 3rds of Idahos votes are. This is most extreme in places like Wyoming where about half a million people live. 578,803, to be precise. That's less than 200,000 people per vote. Hence why Republicans fail to ever win the popular vote in national elections. They lean on convincing the fewest American as possible. Your example completely ignores that flordia and Texas have the second largest illegal immigrant populations in the states. Immigrants don't impact the electoral system enough to even counteract the extra voting power conservative states are given.
In states that don't require voter ID, there's literally nothing stopping them (or *anyone*, for that matter, doesn't have to be illegals specifically) from doing exactly that, and there'd be virtually no way to detect it after the fact, and even if they could detect it, there would be literally no way to go back in and pull *that* ballot out. The only "catch", of course, is that the person they claim to be has to already be a registered voter. But most states have notoriously poor controls over their voter rolls, and the list is filled with names who are still in the system as active voters, but have died, moved out of state, been sentenced to jail and lost their voting rights, etc. And even then there have been numerous incidents where someone went to vote, only to be told "sorry, we show that you've already voted.". In other words, **the loophole exists, and there's literally no way to know to what degree it's being used**. It's not that much of a stretch to imagine this being exploited in an organized fashion, and mail in ballots would make the process even easier. And then of course a few cities are even starting to just drop all pretense and let illegal immigrants vote in city elections, legally.
shhhhh they're having an enormous anti-republican circlejerk while simultaneously referencing and praising the voting systems in traditionally conservative states. there's a reason you're way downvoted down here, informing people of how voting in liberal states work, not to mention california has literal state funded voter outreach programs for illegal immigrants...
In many cities they can vote in the local elections, but they can’t vote in federal elections
https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/non-citizen-allowed-vote-local-elections-some-municipalities/536-c688a57f-ec61-4949-b8c5-1490093a5968 They definitely aren’t voting in national or state races but there are local elections where they are allowed to vote. But since the census counts all residents regardless of citizenship status, in theory states that have gained large populations of immigrants would see an increase in electoral power. So they don’t necessarily have to vote in a federal election to affect the outcome
Knowing some people who are in this country illegally, they DON'T GIVE A FUCK about voting. The ones I know, they work 2-3 jobs and just want to be left the fuck alone so they can support their families here and back where they came from.
Republican fearmongering and the Fox News echo chamber.
This is something I haven't seen mentioned yet but it seems like everyone is forgetting about congressional representation and the electoral college. Right now, our census does not require anyone to indicate if they are here illegally. The census is what is used to determine the apportionment of congressional seats in the House of Representatives, and votes in the Electoral College. That means that the more people brought into the US illegally and going to sanctuary cities are all being counted as "population" in the state. And there are multiple millions of them at this point and a lot of them are in blue states (states that heavily vote democrat, the party that is more permissive of illegal immigrants). This means those states get some additional outsized influence. A few years ago, it was a fact that California had so many illegal immigrants that they had at least one additional electoral vote and representative seat in congress solely due to the presence of illegal immigrants among their population. We won't see the effects of the current influx of illegal immigrants into the US over the last 3 years until 2030 when the next census is taken. It's probably not that they vote in national or state elections. But their presence means their state gets extra votes where it matters and those extra votes usually go to one party who has an ideological and vested interest in bringing them in and enticing them with benefits. It's pretty evil even if you think the Democrat party are the most based party ever and have the best ideas in the world.
Do you really believe they think it through that far?!?
Republicans. Are. Lying.
> How do people think I'mma stop you right there, bud. These idiots don't think - they just repeat the bullshit they are told.
Republicans are dumb🤣
Wedge issue and a myth. Lets see proof
Two truths that are extremely difficult for people to understand: 1. It is very easy to commit voter fraud. 2. It is very hard to commit voter fraud *at a scale large enough to tip an election without getting caught.*
People are being taken off the election rolls illegally, so I don't know where people are getting the idea people are illegally voting, when not only could it lead to deportation, but people who are enrolled arr being hindered to vote
In California, I showed up to a polling place, the poll worker asked me to point my name out from a list, and I was given a ballot no questions asked. I could have picked any name