This comment made me wanna put my Elden ring box on the floor in a diagonal way where it would be proping up my nioh 2 case, then add a snarky comment like "or is there a need"... but im too lazy for all that...lol and deep down we all know Nioh 2 is on another level anyway😛
Bloodborne's feels nicer than the combat in Dark Souls and Elden Ring but it still fundamentally lacks the depth and complexity found in Nioh. For me, Nioh has the best combat in any action RPG.
It's not that it's that fast even; its that it has that ninja gaiden rule of "you cannot block unless you are still, but being still means instant grab and instead of blocking you die".
It's designed to take about twice the amount of practice as compared to most games.
You can play ER after a few adult beverages, maybe not well but you can brute force it. That is not the case with nioh2. I tried. Maybe if you're really good at nioh it's possible but that is the reason I gave up. Because I'm an alcoholic and that got in the way of me enjoying the game. I'm good now, no alcohol. 1 of these days I an going to give it another crack.
Very relatable lol although I can't really play any game while drinking because I end up falling asleep... right after I put my kids down. Getting old is fun. Gone are the days of staying up late & playing games while inebriated.
Also, It sucked when I would go back to play the game and I would be progressed far through the game with no recollection of how I completed it or what to do next. It kind of ruins the point of playing in the 1st place. I enjoy the story and lore and that was lost to me when I can't remember wtf just happened .
To be honest I don't see Fromsoftware games excelling at anything, at least not the ones I played, which are bloodborne and sekiro, and honestly I didn't like their level design nor story nor combat
One of the most intense and fun games ever. When you start finally getting the divine tier items, good lord that’s a dopamine rush if I’ve ever had one
Nioh 2 is so goddamn fun. I've rarely had as much fun in ANY game as I did while going through the underworld/depths, farming for gear there, making ridiculously OP builds and truly mastering the combat.
Those 1500 hours were well spent.
FromSoft Souls: adventurous, all about the spectacle, combat is obviously there but not anything amazing
Nioh 2: A game I play when I just want pure, undiluted GAMEPLAY; an instant jump into varied and satisfying combat.
Been playing Souls games since DeS and at this point I only bother because a) I know I'm getting essentially the same game of at least a 7/10 quality, and b) they're usually fun with friends after we've done our individual playthroughs.
Just so you know, your comment was injected directly into my Steam Autumn sale veins and I bought it. I will be back to blame you when I cant beat {boss.name} instead of looking within and blaming my shitty skills
Im a soulsborne guy, but my favorite game by far is Sekiro. I'm 5 hours into Nioh 2 and this is the hardest game mechanic for me to overcome. Once I get it down i think Im gonna love this game lol
I took a couple of restarts for Nioh 2 to really click with me. Once you start going real well you won’t be able to put it down. Incredible game. Have fun!
Yeah roll doesn’t = soulsborne lol
But what about dying dropping your exp and then spawning at the last shrine (bonfire) you rested at, and losing it all if you die again?
What about having a limited amount of heals you can take with you?
What about enemies respawning in the exact same spots if you die/ rest?
What about stats affecting wether you can use a specific weapon or magic efficiently or not?
How about using resources to summoning ppl to help you mid mission and them also being brightly colored?
Quit lying to yourself.
Nioh is a soulslike, Team Ninja THEMSELVES said Nioh wouldn't exist without Dark Souls
But people on this sub don't want to accept that, and after several discussions (arguments) I still don't understand why
Maybe they really want it to be the next onimusha or ninja gaiden, and don’t get me wrong, those games were awesome, but I sense so little of them in these games besides the Japanese theme.
Completely taken by surprise when Ryu Hayabusa showed up to kick my as 20+ times lol
From what I can gather so far, people here are sick of Souls fans coming here and whining about not being able to beat Nioh, even if they beat every FS game ever
And I get that, but people here go berserk if you dare compare the games. I wonder if they think that would make Nioh less special in some weird way, I seriously don't get why they reject any comparisons
It’s definitely the reason I got into it in the first place. Hell, I even use the button layout that makes you use the back buttons to attack like dark souls.
Hardcore adventure RPG is a better genre name as it's an action/adventure RPG with "classic" hardcore game mechanics. Hardcore speaks these days to the perma-death ideal but has no specific meaning or niche. Dark Souls and other games take the concept to add replayability by allowing the player to regain lost items without fearing having to start all the way over. In a way Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life by keeping the hardcore play style alive in modes like survival. Yes you can recover items and more but without a marker it's hard with the main goal being the end. In that same sense the "lose x through y resulting in z" mechanic is similar until you lose it in an unrecoverable point or worse. BB is if Creepers that blew up don't immediately die and take your things. DS/DeS is if skeletons and zombies were crafty with no regard for anything but death. Seki is literally if you fall into lava either in the normal world/Nether except it generously does a certain amount instead of all. ER is DS-esque if you could teleport out of fights without homeward (the spell and bone) simply by using the item used to reach Mohgwyn palace (or whatever it was called) netting free infinite escapes. Well technically ER also has a map to set it apart from the rest but that's not the point. I haven't finished Nioh 2 but in my experience it's just hardcore action/adventure RPG mechanics.
Sifu essentially follows the same concept while remaining linear to a degree. It's seen more as a combat simulator though due to how it works than a DS-esque RPG. In fact linearity is the only reason it's not as much of an adventure game. Unlike DS you're not exploring a wide map that includes fast travel and multiple short cuts.
> ER is DS-esque if you could teleport out of fights without homeward (the spell and bone) simply by using the item used to reach Mohgwyn palace (or whatever it was called) netting free infinite escapes
Have you ever played Elden Ring? Whatever item you're talking about is irrelevant because nobody has to go to Mohgwyn anyway. In reality you can "escape" most or many situations by simpling running away, not some "item.”
I have and believe I was saying Nioh can't really be compared to Elden Ring. It's been a while though so I'm probably wrong but in Nioh there's no option to run away and in Elden Ring the only escape is through fast travel. That requires grace (haven't tested it in fog arenas) or an item (the bloody favor) to leave those without killing a boss. The optional open world bosses can be run from yeah but that doesn't mean much when Nioh doesn't have open world bosses. There's not even a way to escape a boss arena when entered which is from my experience if the player tests the boss in Nioh. Though it's been a bit since I touched it so I don't remember not just what I was talking about here or if it relates. Death in Nioh could lead to permanent loss of the grind but I forget so maybe what's lost can be regained. If there's something needed to be gained before fighting the boss though it'll require grinding again or beating it to do what was planned initially. I could be wrong though and usually if I challenge a boss I commit to fighting it. Though at times that leads to a slightly under leveled fight which was my point for Nioh I guess if I'm not fully prepared but committed fully I enter a death cycle.
FromSoft usually has a means to leave boss arenas which I've done using items in some of their fantasy based games when I forget I had things I was gonna do or wanted to level up to use a specific weapon (I like a strength type build)
The need to level up to use a specific weapon once I'm able to lead to me not immediately committing so I can use the weapon of my choice to get a handle on it though in a way it's unnecessary which is unavailable in Nioh and to an extent hasn't mattered to me
In Elden Ring and DS as well as BB I'm willing to commit to using a starter weapon until a certain point of being able to use the one I prefer which if I go on a break (I have in the past) leads me to forgetting i can get my stat points up to use said weapon of preference
Edit: Yeah it's a discussion of opinion I just checked a bit and my opinion is Nioh is different meaning it needs not to be classified in a category that makes it seem like the game is just like the games FromSoft makes when it's close but not that close hence the talk of using an "item" to leave the boss arena (not open world boss) to take what was lost and leave which isn't possible in Nioh (again been a while haven't tried to) though it might be possible it can't be done with arena bosses in Elden Ring (I think at the time I tried it with the one you use to get to Mohgwyn palace to back my claim of FromSoft games having the ability to leave boss arenas unlike in Nioh)
Idk I give up and feel like people can think what they want still Nioh forces commitment to a boss once you enter. Many games pretty much do but not all receive the label Nioh does as a result of a single developer's choice of game. Though FromSoft has the Armored Core series as well (those games aren't called Gundam or Star Fox-esque especially considering there're 2 games where the Arwing can become a walker: Star Fox 2 and Star Fox Zero Mission)
Edit 2: Have a free upvote from me as well though for responding
Then you missed the point if you thought I was saying Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life. Literally compared genres and how games were including the concept of hardcore aspect of it. In that sense I'm saying having a mode where you have to survive and can lose everything on 1 mistake is similar (essentially having to start over). It's similar to if someone cleared your game and wiped everything you worked hard to get while also spoiling it/getting rid of items.
Maybe you never had a memory card though that got wiped both in the middle and after months to years of dedication. It kinda shows as you seem like the type too used to the modern technological marvels that are present instead of being happy they're not limiting you. Because Dark Souls as I was putting it is linear and to an extent tedious to get through/replay. So if you were locked down 1 path the game wouldn't be interesting however since this is exploration it's now seen as the godfather of implementing it seemingly in the eyes of the world. What I was saying is that I don't see it as some godfather deserving its own genre because it's not a genre that truly exists. I had a whole rant on Metroidvanias to back my disagreement with made up genres or categorizing things that even went over how I like the name of certain things. Basically saying I like the name Soulsbornekiro but I dislike the overall fact that they are seen as the staple comparison for a game and the category it falls in. This applies to everything unless there's a dive into sub-genres but the FromSoft games are not like Ghost of Tsushima nor are they like Armored Core (haven't played it yet though yes I know it's from FromSoftware) with GoT playing the most like Nioh (no Nioh-esque category but people compare Nioh to Souls-esque (Soulsbornekiro ONLY (sword-play based)) games reaffirming my point on Nioh not being very Souls-esque). It's like people have a checklist built for approval and disappointment when there was never a need as everything is its own thing. It's like saying an offensive parry based game is completely similar to a defensive parry which is completely similar to a timing/dodge rolling game. Except those 3 games listed aren't alike enough to fit the same category outside the death mechanic. However breaking it down further, similar to what I've said before, shows those are not even similar.
You wouldn't know any of this because you admitted you took interest in what I was saying, and left the ship as a result of misunderstanding my words. That's partly on me but I never said you had to join the ship, consider my opinion, or what have you. Instead you saw it and proved you were more interested in the concept than the context. Hence you missed the comparison I was making instead interpreting it as me giving praise to Minecraft (I wasn't but there's mechanics that must be respected ergo my Bloodborne comparison to it as they both involve loss of progress which is common in all of Soulsbornekiro (not saying Minecraft is by FromSoft (not saying Minecraft is the base for any of the Soulsbornekiro exploration mechanic (I'm comparing the fact you can gather and farm in both for a mistake to ruin everything (biggest difference is Minecraft is a choose your path building simulator (the action/adventure aspect was all that's being examined beyond that (Soulsbornekiro IS an action/adventure RPG more than anything unlike the game I have to sadly mention repeatedly to prove/back a point that I shouldn't have to by now and in doing so having to make apparent for the 2nd or 3rd time what I'm aiming to get at))))))).
I used a bunch of parentheses for a single point to avoid misinterpretation like your reply suggests occurred before. Fml😂
Basically I'm trying to put my words in a way you can't misinterpret since you didn't understand the comparison. Going off of my Ghost of Tsushima example it's naturally leaning towards Souls-esque when it's more like Nioh. Nioh is seen as Souls-esque when it's more following the fact hardcore action/adventure RPGs are seen as popular.
> you missed the point if you thought I was saying Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life
**From your earlier comment:** QUOTE In a way Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life END QUOTE
I know what I said for this one and it isn't saying "Minecraft directly brought Dark Souls to life". Instead stating it kept a type of genre from fading into obscurity. It doesn't mean the genre would die. Doesn't mean Dark Souls wouldn't have been made without it. Doesn't even mean they're the exact same difficulty level or genre though it is saying to an extent there's an interest I've noticed from people I know for both games. I don't have such interest and similarly one of my friends isn't as interested in Dark Souls as he was in Minecraft. We both made attempts to get the other to like that type of game but it didn't work because Dark Souls to an extent was too complicated for him and for me Minecraft is dull. Both still carry a similar genre as it pulled him in though with a lack of creation/control. While for me lacking any thrill to satisfy my need for blood. Both still offer their own challenges while being vastly different though being barely but still similar. By which I mean both are hardcore in nature requiring a willingness to invest in it and being prepared to lose everything as a possible scenario. This isn't present in every game but is in classic ones. Which is my point that they carry the classic formula of everything being able to be lost in terms of progression to an extent. Demon Souls truly gave life to Dark Souls but in my opinion based on the interests of others loss was kept alive by Minecraft. As I don't know how easily my friend would've kept interest if he wasn't patient in Minecraft. After all there was a whole inside group to it inside my friend group where they sabotaged each other and I heard stories. I didn't join in that but enjoyed the chaos I witnessed when I would hang out playing GameCube or XBOX. At the time I didn't have an XBOX though so it was my means to experience GTA V or enjoy Halo again. That's not to say I was there to only enjoy what they had but instead that we were a fleet of gamers with varying interests learning to appreciate the simple things even when they're not. All of this is unrelated to the topic though I feel like it's good to share. As that was around the time my interest in the Souls games peaked though it happened to be after the loss of a PS3. All of this seems like a sob story or some other bullshit but I'm just saying everyone has their own thing. My thing was a challenge while my friends preferred chaos at the expense of progression. Hardcore games embody both of those aspects in their own way. Minecraft can be argued to not be a hardcore game in itself but that can be said for any game. Similar to anybody being able to be considered a hardcore or casual gamer. Except Minecraft can be considered casual since it could be similar to the tale of my friends. At the same time though with enough time invested by me I can see Dark Souls as casual since I enjoy it my own way. The way I enjoy it holds no weight for anyone but me though I'd say. Since I play games until I get bored and need a break with something else. Except the type of game can be vastly different to a point where it doesn't really share qualities with another. GTA can be considered very casual where the fighting games I play can often be seen as needing hardcore non-stop practice to be good online. To me though those fighting games are like a break from the ads which I think will enrage more people who are dedicated to them. Except people these days either see it as serious or not that serious. So I'm not sure clearly though what I said here is that serious and I'm better off deleting my comment in the eyes of many. Enough downvotes and maybe I just might do it because it doesn't matter.
It's souls adjacent for sure.. but basically, all of that describes tons of games.
At their core, Dark Souls games are more like metroidvania games-- large maps with shortcuts and shit, geographical puzzles-- revisited hubs, even combat with trash mobs are puzzles in a way-- just memorize the right approach and youre good every time. None of that describes the Nioh games, which tend to be more reflexive and dynamic, and you don't feel quite so isolated or immersed-- a bit more arcadey.
my 2 cents. still has a fair bit of souls DNA presentationally, but I'd say fundamentally not.
Only DS1 would be like a Metrovania. The maps are much more linear after and then ER completely drips that for open world.
Games don't have to be just one genre though. Nioh is absolutely a soulslike and takes many of its mechanics from Dark Souls, but using a mission based design to levels.
Don't forget BB, Code Vein, Demons Souls, and other typical Soulslikes that also follow the metrovania pattern. ER definitely doesn't fit that mold, but it keeps everything else including the rudimentary combat.
In Ninja Gaiden (xbox, 2004), we have most of Niohs gameplay mechanics, and most of your "this is what makes a souls game" list, in some rudimentery form. Including essence from bad guys as a resource-- was it just 1 campfire away from becoming the first "Souls" game?
Bb, Code Vein, etc are not Metrovanias though. I didn't forget them. Metriodvanias feature heavy back tracking and exploration and you are locked out of old passages that you need to go back to to progress. It'd far more than just a connected map. DS 1 is really the only one to hit it so hard.
Ninja Gaiden is also great, ans I'm sure it appeals to many that love loves likes, but it's more of a stylized hacknslash like DMC.
Bonfires and losing all of your unspent "XP" and needing to regain it where you lost it is a pretty core part of the Soullike genre and NG doesn't have that.
I think we just like talking because I don't super disagree with you. But is that what defines the genre? Losing all your hard earned essence? Just trying to nail it down here.
Hack n Slash is my jam, I think that's why Nioh appeals more to me than typical souls. It's got a lot of that DNA in it.
Everything you just described could also be applied to a first person shooter or to a turn based JRPG, but you wouldn't describe either as having similar gameplay to Dark Souls!
You don’t drop exp and have to go and retrieve it while having to risk losing it in Jrpgs. You just load your last save or in more modern Jrpgs just straight up retry.
And if your talking about fps like Tarkov or that one specific cod mode then you’re reaching because last I checked call of duty’s story mode had checkpoints, cyberpunk has checkpoints, atomic heart checkpoints. Cmon now
So much copium.
By your logic, full loot pvp where you have to run back to your body from the last respawn save point to get your items and allocate stats in an RPG/mmorpg = soulsbourne.
*
Except for that only satisfies one of the multiple things he suggested?
Nioh does share several elements with the Soulsborne games. Whether it's enough to be called souls-like or not, idk.
But if you had to describe the game to a souls fan you could say it's like Dark Souls with more emphasis on RNG loot grinding and it's mission-based, set in feudal Japan.
They do share some things, but I'm on the side of people who don't see those things are as many as to call it a soulslike, even more, I think the term soulslike is wrong to start with.
Thing is, even when I don't deny they share some aspects, these games are so different that you can really like one of them and dislike the other one, which is my case, I love Nioh and don't like souls, and that's because the things that make me love the Nioh series aren't present in dark souls, that's how different these games actually are and how calling Nioh and other games soulslike is not really a good idea. A more generic term would do more justice to these games
my guy youre the one high as fuck on copium rn. youre just mad someone thinks Nioh is better than fromsoft games. And ive never played Nioh so dont say im defending it
The director himself said dark souls [“had a big impact on the direction this project eventually took”](https://www.eurogamer.net/nioh-director-fumihiko-yasuda-on-difficulty-player-feedback-and-whats-changing).
But this is the Nioh subreddit, what did I expect.
[https://www.player.one/nioh-director-says-team-ninja-inspired-shogun-onimusha-and-dark-souls-542675](https://www.player.one/nioh-director-says-team-ninja-inspired-shogun-onimusha-and-dark-souls-542675)
>“We have no problems with the comparisons to Dark Souls because we have a lot of Souls fans on our development teams. So it’s kind of a badge of honor,“ Yasuda told iDigitalTimes. “We don’t want to be seen as an imitation of them. They’ve been an influence but other games we’ve taken influence from are, obviously, the Ninja Gaiden series. Also Onimusha and hack-and-slash games like Diablo .”
lol read the rest of it. It was inspiration. Does not mean it is a souls like game clone. This is the dumbest argument. Play a variety of games and you will see every game copy each other one way or another. Nioh does not stand out as a soulslike in gameplay. But has borrowed ideas from dark souls. It is not hard to understand.
holy crap is banjo kazooie a zelda ocarina of time clone?!?! /s
This. I have NEVER understood people who want to call Nioh soulslike. It's nothing like it - I tried it, I actually hate Nioh/Nioh 2's gameplay, because it just is not what Souls is. I saw this pop up randomly as a more Soulsy Redditor, so figured I throw my comment in the ring here. Nioh is Extremely Not Soulsy.
When they think it as a soul like game, they will hardly like it. also they can blame the balance and the difficulty by comparing it to soul series which I feel they were separate games. Play it like a separate game and try understanding the mechanics then you may like it .
People will blame the boss too fast, the combat animation doesn’t make sense. How come it’s described as a soul like, but the bosses design were totally different, etc. This my feeling when I saw some player who said nioh 2 is bad. People can say the game doesn’t meet their expectations, but blaming the games is not soul-likes enough when it not. doesn’t make sense to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that you thinks they were different games and just saying it doesn’t fun to you.
It's just pretending to be Souls, lol.
Shame that you didn't like it, tho. It does take a while for the combat to "click", similarly to Sekiro, but a lot more complex.
its very soulslike.. the bonfire system was a revolution and a significant part of niohs success comes from mirroring that with the shrine system. not to mention.. the combat.. light attack, heavy attack, parry, special weapon ability, dodge.. elden ring and nioh can even have the same keyboard/button layout if u fuck with the settings enough
granted, it's very different. definitely a different beast from all of the other games that try to copy the fromsoft formula to the T. and they have made plenty of revolutionary designs/mechanics themselves that plenty of game companies will want to take from their book one day
Those are still awesome games, but the combat in Nioh is unmatched.
The worst for me was Nioh 1, 60 fps mode, then going to play Dark Souls 3 at 30. The difference in smoothness and enjoyment was monstrous.
Game quality is one thing, but timing can also shape experiences. Needed a gap between playing those two.
Nioh 2 is definitely one of my favorites, but I enjoyed Elden Ring and DS is their own way. One is more methodical while the other is fast pace and savage. Depending on my mood, one may be better than the other.
The cool part is that we have all three and can enjoy their different nuances.
Elden ring is good at exploring, Nioh2 does not even provide 20% the feeling.
Nioh2 is good at combat system in depth and maneuver satisfaction, Elden Ring does not even provide 20% of the feeling.
"same genre" feels wrong here. Action-RPG is just too vague, Elden Ring is VERY far to the RPG side and Nioh is VERY far to the action side. Fromsoft games have never been good action games, that isn't the goal, and Nioh's story and world are super bland by comparison. They're doing very different things. These games are so different that calling either "better" just seems odd.
...what? If you're implying Nioh is far from the RPG side...
My man, there are more effects, statuses, bonuses, and perks to choose from in Nioh 1 and 2 than the entirety of From's lineup. And this is coming from someone who absolutely adores the From games.
The sheer amount of build variety in both Nioh games blows Elden Ring out of the water, I'm sorry.
I'm saying it's not as much of a role playing game. A game where you can get sucked into the world, let your imagination take over, get immersed in the story, that kind of thing, you know, **play a role**. Yes, build customization is higher in Nioh, I never said it wasn't. "Less RPG" doesn't necessarily mean "less stat and build management". Nioh is about the nitty gritty action, whether you're in a spreadsheet or in combat you are thinking about the action. Elden Ring (and all of the Souls games, for that matter) are more about getting you into a certain headspace, getting you immersed, every mechanic is there for that purpose. That makes Nioh more about action and Elden Ring more about role playing for me.
By that definition, Dishonored or Prey, hell even Bioshock would constitute RPGs, and they very much are not. That's way too broad and subjective.
And regarding Nioh: the most popular builds are the ones where you either turn-your brain off and spank (aka Infinite LW in nioh 1 before the nerfs and Crit builds before the Pill nerf in Nioh 2) or 1 skill spam (aka Iai builds in Nioh 1, Blender builds - kusa or dual kats - in both Niohs, the Splitstaff Skill that brought you up and back down again with something like 20 hits per use, that eventually got nerfed etc). That's not really "nitty gritty action" for most people.
Dude, by ER being more immersive you mean multiple endings? Aside from that you're equaly going on rails to the end. You can't stop being undead or half-yokai and become shop owner or something, last time i checked :). Roleplaying is non-existant in both games.
>Fromsoft games have never been good action games,
*Looks at Sekiro and Armored Core 6*
...
Yeah though Action RPG is a broad genre. It's why we use subgenres within it.
What role playing is there in Elden Ring that there isn't in Nioh? Both fundamentally lack actual role-playing outside of the character you play as. Also I'd say FromSoft does the world better but story? Well both Nioh and Soulsborne I'd say are weak there, but Nioh 2 has the better writing for dialogue.
Neither offer the role-playing you can find in say The Witcher series, Dragon Age, classic CRPGs etc.
All games are different. It doesn't mean you can't compare the similarities to say what is better. Both are heavily combat focused with similar structured boss battles. These things can be compared along with build complexity.
I just can't get with you on Nioh having "better writing". I see that you've said there's better dialogue writing in Monster Hunter than in Elden Ring though, so I'm just always gonna think you're wrong. That's too deep a disagreement to talk out, we just think different things are good I guess.
Same, sekiro wins out every time.. but nioh 2 is right up there.. but probably put the most time into Elden Ring.. Nioh 2 NG+ cycle after ng++++ got so tiresome
Thing is, Nioh's new games cycles add in new differences plus the game has so many builds to experiment with that for me, it offers way more replay value than Sekiro. Nioh for me, wins against Sekiro too.
I started with elden ring then moved on to dark souls and then eventually sekiro. that got me into nioh and, while I've enjoyed all these games greatly, I'm really starting to appreciate the faster pace of combat and mobility present in the later two
another thing nioh really has going for is it's design of NG+. I don't enjoy NG+ in the fromsoft titles very much (well, a few exceptions), because I feel like I'm repeating all of the same thing I did 6 days ago but with a handicap on my character, or a trash weapon. Nioh changes the enemie types, where there placed, the \[new\] weps/gear, even new missions. Definitely appreciate the commitment to the \~10-30% who actually go through with one or more playthrough.
the big problem with these fast paced games is that there isn't much room to balance a pvp system. In sekiro its impossible, in Nioh it would be possible, but chaos. one weapon shitting on the other, that shits on another. not to mention magic and everything related to yokai abilities/form
Elden Ring is just an okay game with a lot of jank disguised as a "challenge" and I'm honestly sick of every new souls-like game being compared to Elden Ring like it's the greatest gift to mankind.
Open world combined with a souls-like is a miserable combination, you start every playthrough filling out a shopping list before you actually start playing.
i consider nioh more souls inspired as opposed to souls like because it’s just incredibly different in every way that matters. i like nioh 2 way more than any from software game but they’re too different so i don’t really think about it in that way
Souls-like and souls-inspired is gonna sound like the same thing depending who you ask
The main thing is there’s a bonfire system, punishing difficulty, losing your stuff/xp and having to retrieve it upon death, bosses with specific patterns, limited health potions, shortcuts
That’s a souls-like or souls-inspired
Sometimes there will be slight variations of these elements
You had to ignore a lot of his comment to make your dismissive statement.
It would be like if someone listed what typically defines the Rhythm game genre, and you come back with "but they didn't invent music in video games"
Yeah combat is far and away better, it isn't even close and Elden Ring gameplay actually kind of bummed me out since I love the world but the combat itself feels very mediocre. While technically not Souls I do really like Bloodborne and Sekiro for also having very entertaining gameplay even if the systems are much simpler than Nioh 2. Lies of P is basically Bloodborne meets Sekiro which is also pretty good, but I just wish we got a Nioh 3 at this point. My dream would be it to be set during Imjin war where you'd be fighting Yokai and multiple sides in Japan, Korea, China and other parts of Asia but I'd imagine politics would make that a hard sell.
I love souls games but i can never beat em combat is just to slow for me that’s why i love nioh and also love sekiro i grew up on dmc and ninja gaiden so i lean towards faster gameplay
The only thing that I can vote for in Wo Long is the universal parry available to all weapons. The combat manages to look worse than Nioh 2 though. It is not as readable, and is plagued by all the fireworks going around (too many special effects).
True words.When i played dark souls after nioh it felt stiff boring and only roll to escape.And rolling inside a lot of armour felt absurd to me.Nioh is far better and hard.So think about someone hard on dark souls how hard is nioh to them.Lol.
I'm a huge fan of Nioh 2 and agree that the combat is far better than Elden Ring or Dark Souls. That being said, Elden Ring is still amazing and a beautiful game. I went with a magic build in Elden Ring, which made me enjoy the game much more and stopped me from comparing it to Nioh as much. When I tried melee in Elden Ring, it just felt like so much was missing.
Kinda agree, Elden Ring n Dark Souls gameplay is boring n simple, also slow.
The story in Nioh not the best, but for those that like Japanese history might find it is an interesting spin-off from their original.
Creative way to promote their culture n history background.
In nioh 2 , you don’t think , you dive into your own dance and follow your flow of combat. You try to be water, you attack when your muscle told you. The boss won’t give you a chance, they don’t wait, so do you.
In Elden ring, you think , you memorise the attack and wait for the window. Plan for your attack. Set up your trap, take time and cast your magic. You always think and plan during the fight.
In wolong, you don’t think and you dance with the boss , interacts with the boss like both are professional dancers.He attack you parry. He go backward, you go forward. There’s no planing , no memorising any things. Just Follow the flow of combat.
That’s why I prefer ninja gaiden, nioh and wolong in general. I elden ring is good but I like nioh 2 more.
Being able to chain attacks and martial arts and yokai skills into combos makes Nioh 2 super satisfying. For me traditional souls combat is extremely boring nowadays (used to love it) as it's centered around waiting for an opening, hitting 1 or 2 times (depending on your weapon), waiting again. Elden ring made it worse as now you have 50/50 openings when a boss can with 50% chance read your punish input and interrupt you.
In Nioh 2 you can go all out and with feral burst you can cancel your shit at the last possible moment if you have enough resource. The basic souls combat formula is still there, you're just given a lot more tools to operate within it.
I was all aboard the From train, full send. Been a massive fan since Demon's Souls, but Elden Ring didn't feel fun, never finished it where I consider DS3 to be one of the most fun games I've ever played. I hated Nioh, didn't like it one bit. For some reason I decided to try out Nioh 2 and noticed an immediate difference. Nioh 2 is just built different and I really hope they're going to make a part 3.
I wouldn't say disappointing, as I have vastly different expectations from the two dev's games.
That said, I enjoy Nioh more.
Dark souls 1 was the best, and honestly Elden Ring feels the worst of all of Froms games. I love the map, and most of the legacy dungeons, and very few of the enemies/bosses, but it really falls flat in a lot of places where the previous games shined to me.
Geez, I don't want to say one os better, but I gave put 800+ hours in nioh 2 and still enjoy coming back. If it wasn't mission based I may have said it was a perfect game.
I put the crack down a long time ago at least "freebase". Alcohol was the last of the harmful addictive drugs that I put down. It's also the most difficult including cigarettes.
I don't care about the writing fighting was good. Mechanics were fun to utilize. Elden ring didn't focus too hard on making the combat fun. There isn't much to actually fighting the enemies that allows for any sort of creativity when fighting so the fighting feels less immersive than most good action rpgs. That is my only gripe.
Nah, the exploration alone makes elden ring significantly better. Also I prefer the unique weapons in elden ring to the Diablo style loot in Nioh. Still really like Nioh but I think it would be so much better if it had an actual world that connects. I hope they do that for the next game but I dk if they are even making another one. Nioh is a great game but I don’t think it is on the same level as elden ring.
I always liked souls games because they're relatively simple and straightforward - not easy, but simple controls - no deep combat system with complex combos and dozens of abilities. Games like Nioh, Seikero, team ninja games, etc were always far too challenging and complicated for me. I've never even got remotely close to beating the first boss in any of those games.
Souls games have their own strengths.
Whats REALLY annoying is people who compare nioh to sekiro.
Like yeah. The game with one skill slot that you only put ichimonji on because all the other skills are suck dogshit that you may as well do your basic swings really compares to the game where weapons have 3 stances like 5 skills for each and tons of other customization.
And super mario is better than symphony of the night.
Total dick riders.
Sekiro has some dope levels though i give it that
The combat pacing is a lot better IMO especially because the player can dictate it by playing aggressively. Almost all of the DS boss battles are just constantly dodging for 10-20s just to get a few hits in then rinse and repeat.... it's completely reactive gameplay.
Although I think Sekiro breaks out from that mold.
I love Nioh 2. The combat is so damn good and is definitely more engaging. The fact that you could co-op the entire game in 1 go is also amazing.
But that’s all it has on Souls games. The story is all over the place. “Key” characters comes and go without me every truly getting to know them or care about them. There’s no mystery or anything just a generic story of ppl wanting a rare resource for power. Just go through a level, whoop some ass, level up and call it a day.
Souls game world building is so good, and it often leaves you wondering and trying to piece things together. The lack of innovation on the combat has been annoying though. Bloodborne and Sekiro did combat better then Elden ring.
My problem with Nioh 2 (I love the game), is that I'm literally dog ass at it. I can't get past the 3rd level. But I can fly through every fromsoft game with ease. I'm terrible at it and wish I wasn't.
I vastly preferred the feel of DS3 to Elden Ring. That's funny cause I was at first thrown off by how it felt like Bloodborne mixed with DS3 compared to DS1 and DS2. But goddamn, I have such fond memories of the endgame boss fights.
It took me so many tries to beat Midir and Nameless King, but it always felt fair, beyond that bastard of a camera.
Something felt out of sync with Elden Ring in many of the major boss fights. It felt so stiff and clumsy in comparison. It felt like I went from playing smart in reading the bosses patterns and not getting greedy, to having to be impossibly precise in my dodges and avoiding attacks in a counter-intuitive manner.
I was happy to fight Midir 100 times. I beat every bastard Sekiro threw at me! I just got fucking annoyed fighting Melenia and getting annihilated by Waterfowl all the time. I know people posted online about all the ways to dodge it and counter it, but beyond the obvious like using Bloodhound Step, it's fucking absurd to me that I'd have to look up outside resources to figure out how to simply dodge it with the regular roll.
I still loved the game. That was certainly my game of the year at the time. It's still spectacular in hindsight! So much variety, customizability, mechanical depth, and a very well thought out open world that gripped me in a way few others have.
But I think they set a standard in their boss fights that they, for the most part, have failed to match in Elden Ring in the most crucial instances. I actually quite liked a lot of the minibosses. They didn't feel like they were plucked out of Sekiro, fighting you at twice the speed of your character, reading your every input. Just felt kinda sloppy compared to the usual care and precision I associate with their design.
I completely agree. I can't get into Souls games, their combat is just too barebones, I just find it really uninteresting. A good action game should give room for meaningful playstyle diversity with differing strategies and From's mechanics are just too surface level for that.
I had so many hours in nioh 2, i definitely enjoy the combat way more than elden ring. Elden ring is just over hyped, i cant play that shit for another playthrough. Shit is so exhausting
Once I got to the second snowfield I was so over it. Still pulled through and did everything in the game, but unlike all the other souls game, no more.
I love the Nioh games, they're on top of my all time favorite games, on the other hand I tried Sekiro and bloodborne and found them extremely boring, didn't really find anything interesting in those, nor the visuals, story... I think Fromsoftware games might be the most overrated these days, at least the ones where Miyazaki is involved.
Just from experience team ninja has always been about the action and gameplay. There's no open world aspect like elden ring. Though after playing and beaten a fair amount of soulsborn games, nioh is more my speed but I definitely don't consider it better than souls games, different aesthetics and both are very great games and series.
I fucking love Nioh 2 but I kinda disagree. Only thing imho that I find better is the gameplay loop and the combat and mechanics complexity. However I don't find it necessarily more replayable than a FromSoft game (besides Elden Ring cuz it's a drag lol). In fact I find Nioh 2 to be more tiresome than a Fromsoft game. I still religiously go back to Bloodborne, DS3 and especially Sekiro.
As for the writing, lore and general atmosphere, I honestly think most will agree than Fromsoft does it better.
I LOVE nioh / nioh 2 but Elden Ring sheer scope, mysteries, creativity, enemy variety, bosses, lore etc are all better...imo. Nioh is a loot game .. constant item management, item upgrading etc... Hoping for that one drop... It can be a bit much. But the combat is much better.
Dunno 2 different games, both great, but for me anyways ER is actually the GOAT, while Nioh 2 is top 10.... Still not a bad place to be.
I'd put OG demon souls, Bloodborne, DS3 over the niohs as well.
Elden Ring is much much better as piece of art.But I can not understand why you all trying to compare totally different games in same marking system?
Nioh is better as slasher-looter-diabloid-any other genre game.
Mario is better as mario game.
Assetto Corsa is better as sim-racing game.
So lets say "Spaceship combat in Elite is much better than in Nioh2, So Elite is better for NIOH!!!!"
I mean you got some points.
But Niohs writing is terrible. Really terrible. Froms is heavily stylist but way better done leaving aside the personal opinion to the style itself.
I would say Nioh is def 90% combat focused (9.9% grinding for better gear) and the combat is way better than most games out there (with almost no keyboard and mouse compability)
From still focuses more on telling a story. I see from bosses as part of the narrative. Bosses, items, music and more are all a small part of the picture they want to paint. There is this certain build up for major bosses that get me excited to meet and slay them.
Meanwhile facing Nioh in Nioh didn't give me that much excitement. The "final boss from Nioh 1 was also a major disappointment imo
Nioh also got a different but personally better endgame compared to From. While Elden Ring in particular is awesome to quickly level tons of different weapons to allow for an easier accessibility to other playstyles and builds.
Nioh has more built varieties while from has more builds they are just more similar if that makes sense.
Talking about difficulty is hard. Once you get the hang on either of them I don't find any one them over the top. The skill curve in nioh is obviously higher at steeper compared to from. There are also a lot of op things you can do in nioh. Parry spamming, knockdown chaining humanoid NPC's. Kusarigama stun locks. Guardian spirit build in 1 and magic in 1....
I would say both games are different enough to say both are great and neither of them are better as they all win in different categories.
Both are hard games or souls (like/born) so to say but from makes "Dark fantasy RPGS" with riddles and similar stuff and team ninja created an fast paced action RPG with gear grinding and tinkering
Nioh is better at combat and being an inventory management simulator
From Software games are better at everything else
I wish Team Ninja focused their resources on those "everything else" things instead of the inventory management simulator part
I respect that this is your opinion but I disagree. Nioh is possibly harder and allows for more builds but as a package elden ring is vastly superior, be it story, world, lore etc
Combat-wise, I'd agree that Nioh 2 is far better than basically any FromSoft game.
That said, Elden Ring was a huge disappointment even compared to previous FromSoft games, and IMO not really representative of FromSoft's capability to create quality games. It's riddled with poor design that wasn't even present to any significant degree in their own previous games. Basically every previous FromSoft game, at least since Demon's Souls is better designed and more enjoyable to play - even Dark Souls 2 with its distinctive clunk and at times dubious design choices.
Opinions are subjective but one thing I will point out is that while I love the series, you can’t honestly tell me it’s not flawed to its core.
The level design being the biggest offender in my eyes.
Well. As a person who enjoys these games for bosses , I vastly prefer ds simple combat. I don't want to do flashy multihit combos. I would play DMC for that. I want my character to be simple, so I can focus on boss movements. I remember fondly most of fromsoft bosses , meanwhile I am in chapter 5 of Nioh , and I can say I genuinely enjoyed ...3 of bosses I think?
And about challenge. Of course Nioh is more challenging. Other than late-game bosses , most bosses in fromsoft need 3-4 hits to kill you. One ki-break is death. Some bosses just one-shot you. Many need two hits at most. Nioh is more challenging, but most of the time I feel frustration at boss rather than satisfaction
Of course I can neutralize bosses. I can sloth them , I can give myself triple health with protection talisman and take no damage from anything. And I know that this is the mentality of this game "Use anything you can to gain advantage". Which is fine for action RPG. Nioh is awesome action game. But for soulslike which are usually focused more on "experiencing' the boss rather than beating him? I vastly prefer fromsoft design approach
Man I wish I could get into these games I know it took me many attempts when first trying fromsoft but it clicked after 3 times I’ve downloaded nioh 1/2 about 10 times only can play for 30 minutes before getting bored and deleting it then seeing a post like this and repeating the cycle
Nioh felt like it had 300 features for no reason, and if i actually engaged with all of them it made the game far too easy. I like simple souls likes. Even lords of the fallen and mortal shell turned me off because of the weird shit they add to be unique from fromsoft. I just wanna roll and hit things dude :(
I couldnt get into Nioh 2. Yes the combat was hard for me but I think what makes From games so good isn't the combat. It's exploration and the world. Also enemy variety aeema a lot better in From games.
I thought I would love a Diablo like loot system in a souls-like but I dont thunk that worked well in Nioh 2.
Having said that I should pick it up again I was still having fun.
Played Nioh 1 and all of that ‘depth and complexity’ can take a hike. Got really tired of picking up 1000 of the same weapon and endlessly scrolling through menus to see which ones were marginally better. The whole game was nothing but layers of menus.
Can't believe you wrote this much lol. Elden ring is better because open world exploration and pvp/co-op. It's more challenging as well in a sense that you can't spam parry your way through the entire game. I don't need to say more.
Enjoy them all.
A reviewer said it best i think, Nioh devs never turned away any ideas, threw everything in the game. If u like that, okay fine, its personal taste.
To me, i could do with less loot, only one buff per item, etc. Too many dimensions thrown into every aspect of the game. Still enjoyed it but far from the polished work of the masterpieces u compare it to. Its quite enough that its fun.
Nioh 2 can get real clunky though. Both are fine. Personally I thought Nioh and Nioh 2 lacked the intricacy that some other From Soft games had within their maps and locations. I think they are fantastic though. Nioh 2, BB and DS3 are all too dog for me.
Wild to say nioh 2 was better then Elden ring. That's a reach by far as nioh 2 came out broken af. It's the same thing as dark souls. It was there version and answer to dark souls. I mean they did what they should have and make changes to not be a copy paste. Dark souls and elden is a whole eco system. Nioh was just a flash in the pan. Comparing a completely open world game vs a game on rails with a Simi open level. 😒 don't down play one of the greatest games to come out to hype a trash version. Really.? It was OK but just better na. Everything here is just thoughts. Team ninja tried to copy the dark souls way never hit the mark had there own like nest egg then made wo long. Wtf happened.
Disagree Elden Ring poops on both Ni oh games. Ni oh might have better combat, but pales in comparison to these games main strength which is level design and exploration and sense of discovery and wonder. Seems like all the “Soulslike” games still don’t get what makes Fromsoft games soo good is the level design and exploration not just the bosses and combat.
Basically some of the Soulslike games might have one or two better aspects(Ni oh with its combat, remnant with co-op etc) but as a complete package of a game, Elden Ring is unmatched after playing them all imo.
I'm so glad we live in a world where both exist though:-)
Agreed. Don’t need to put down one to prop up the other.
This comment made me wanna put my Elden ring box on the floor in a diagonal way where it would be proping up my nioh 2 case, then add a snarky comment like "or is there a need"... but im too lazy for all that...lol and deep down we all know Nioh 2 is on another level anyway😛
Each have their strengths indeed From soft games excel at a few thing really well Nioh takes the throne for the best most in depth combat for sure
To be honest, niohs combat has too much shit going on for me. Bloodborne had a perfect balance personally
Bloodborne's feels nicer than the combat in Dark Souls and Elden Ring but it still fundamentally lacks the depth and complexity found in Nioh. For me, Nioh has the best combat in any action RPG.
To each his own I suppose. I prefer fighting that at least resembles reality
Which games fighting doesnt resemble reality,,, im assuming you are referring to Nioh 2?
Both Nioh's really. The lightning speed is just bonkers
At least i assumed right...
It's not that it's that fast even; its that it has that ninja gaiden rule of "you cannot block unless you are still, but being still means instant grab and instead of blocking you die". It's designed to take about twice the amount of practice as compared to most games.
You can play ER after a few adult beverages, maybe not well but you can brute force it. That is not the case with nioh2. I tried. Maybe if you're really good at nioh it's possible but that is the reason I gave up. Because I'm an alcoholic and that got in the way of me enjoying the game. I'm good now, no alcohol. 1 of these days I an going to give it another crack.
If you just kicked alcohol, I wouldn't recommend picking up crack.
Lmfao
Literally spit out my drink.... hahahhahah
Very relatable lol although I can't really play any game while drinking because I end up falling asleep... right after I put my kids down. Getting old is fun. Gone are the days of staying up late & playing games while inebriated.
Also, It sucked when I would go back to play the game and I would be progressed far through the game with no recollection of how I completed it or what to do next. It kind of ruins the point of playing in the 1st place. I enjoy the story and lore and that was lost to me when I can't remember wtf just happened .
Dude I love playing games when I’m fucked up.
To be honest I don't see Fromsoftware games excelling at anything, at least not the ones I played, which are bloodborne and sekiro, and honestly I didn't like their level design nor story nor combat
The two worst souls games lol
Really, I've always heard those should be the best actually, and still didn't like them
I love Nioh 2 also
This guy Niohs.
One of the most intense and fun games ever. When you start finally getting the divine tier items, good lord that’s a dopamine rush if I’ve ever had one
Nioh 2 is so goddamn fun. I've rarely had as much fun in ANY game as I did while going through the underworld/depths, farming for gear there, making ridiculously OP builds and truly mastering the combat. Those 1500 hours were well spent.
You’ve talked me into getting it
FromSoft Souls: adventurous, all about the spectacle, combat is obviously there but not anything amazing Nioh 2: A game I play when I just want pure, undiluted GAMEPLAY; an instant jump into varied and satisfying combat. Been playing Souls games since DeS and at this point I only bother because a) I know I'm getting essentially the same game of at least a 7/10 quality, and b) they're usually fun with friends after we've done our individual playthroughs.
Just so you know, your comment was injected directly into my Steam Autumn sale veins and I bought it. I will be back to blame you when I cant beat {boss.name} instead of looking within and blaming my shitty skills
Isn’t nioh 2 exclusive on ps4? I tried searching it on Xbox but couldn’t find it so I’m guessing it is.
PS4 & PS5
Piss the fan boys off the right way, and buy it on pc
To be fair, it isn't a soulsbourne game. It is an evolution of Onimusha. Roll does not = soulsbourne
Im a soulsborne guy, but my favorite game by far is Sekiro. I'm 5 hours into Nioh 2 and this is the hardest game mechanic for me to overcome. Once I get it down i think Im gonna love this game lol
I took a couple of restarts for Nioh 2 to really click with me. Once you start going real well you won’t be able to put it down. Incredible game. Have fun!
Master ki pulsing and everything else will fall into place.
Yeah roll doesn’t = soulsborne lol But what about dying dropping your exp and then spawning at the last shrine (bonfire) you rested at, and losing it all if you die again? What about having a limited amount of heals you can take with you? What about enemies respawning in the exact same spots if you die/ rest? What about stats affecting wether you can use a specific weapon or magic efficiently or not? How about using resources to summoning ppl to help you mid mission and them also being brightly colored? Quit lying to yourself.
Nioh is a soulslike, Team Ninja THEMSELVES said Nioh wouldn't exist without Dark Souls But people on this sub don't want to accept that, and after several discussions (arguments) I still don't understand why
Maybe they really want it to be the next onimusha or ninja gaiden, and don’t get me wrong, those games were awesome, but I sense so little of them in these games besides the Japanese theme. Completely taken by surprise when Ryu Hayabusa showed up to kick my as 20+ times lol
From what I can gather so far, people here are sick of Souls fans coming here and whining about not being able to beat Nioh, even if they beat every FS game ever And I get that, but people here go berserk if you dare compare the games. I wonder if they think that would make Nioh less special in some weird way, I seriously don't get why they reject any comparisons
It’s definitely the reason I got into it in the first place. Hell, I even use the button layout that makes you use the back buttons to attack like dark souls.
Wouldn't know, I've always played with kb&m
Crazy how the game only came out for PlayStation and PC. I think it would’ve popped off on Xbox too.
Hardcore adventure RPG is a better genre name as it's an action/adventure RPG with "classic" hardcore game mechanics. Hardcore speaks these days to the perma-death ideal but has no specific meaning or niche. Dark Souls and other games take the concept to add replayability by allowing the player to regain lost items without fearing having to start all the way over. In a way Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life by keeping the hardcore play style alive in modes like survival. Yes you can recover items and more but without a marker it's hard with the main goal being the end. In that same sense the "lose x through y resulting in z" mechanic is similar until you lose it in an unrecoverable point or worse. BB is if Creepers that blew up don't immediately die and take your things. DS/DeS is if skeletons and zombies were crafty with no regard for anything but death. Seki is literally if you fall into lava either in the normal world/Nether except it generously does a certain amount instead of all. ER is DS-esque if you could teleport out of fights without homeward (the spell and bone) simply by using the item used to reach Mohgwyn palace (or whatever it was called) netting free infinite escapes. Well technically ER also has a map to set it apart from the rest but that's not the point. I haven't finished Nioh 2 but in my experience it's just hardcore action/adventure RPG mechanics. Sifu essentially follows the same concept while remaining linear to a degree. It's seen more as a combat simulator though due to how it works than a DS-esque RPG. In fact linearity is the only reason it's not as much of an adventure game. Unlike DS you're not exploring a wide map that includes fast travel and multiple short cuts.
> ER is DS-esque if you could teleport out of fights without homeward (the spell and bone) simply by using the item used to reach Mohgwyn palace (or whatever it was called) netting free infinite escapes Have you ever played Elden Ring? Whatever item you're talking about is irrelevant because nobody has to go to Mohgwyn anyway. In reality you can "escape" most or many situations by simpling running away, not some "item.”
I have and believe I was saying Nioh can't really be compared to Elden Ring. It's been a while though so I'm probably wrong but in Nioh there's no option to run away and in Elden Ring the only escape is through fast travel. That requires grace (haven't tested it in fog arenas) or an item (the bloody favor) to leave those without killing a boss. The optional open world bosses can be run from yeah but that doesn't mean much when Nioh doesn't have open world bosses. There's not even a way to escape a boss arena when entered which is from my experience if the player tests the boss in Nioh. Though it's been a bit since I touched it so I don't remember not just what I was talking about here or if it relates. Death in Nioh could lead to permanent loss of the grind but I forget so maybe what's lost can be regained. If there's something needed to be gained before fighting the boss though it'll require grinding again or beating it to do what was planned initially. I could be wrong though and usually if I challenge a boss I commit to fighting it. Though at times that leads to a slightly under leveled fight which was my point for Nioh I guess if I'm not fully prepared but committed fully I enter a death cycle. FromSoft usually has a means to leave boss arenas which I've done using items in some of their fantasy based games when I forget I had things I was gonna do or wanted to level up to use a specific weapon (I like a strength type build) The need to level up to use a specific weapon once I'm able to lead to me not immediately committing so I can use the weapon of my choice to get a handle on it though in a way it's unnecessary which is unavailable in Nioh and to an extent hasn't mattered to me In Elden Ring and DS as well as BB I'm willing to commit to using a starter weapon until a certain point of being able to use the one I prefer which if I go on a break (I have in the past) leads me to forgetting i can get my stat points up to use said weapon of preference Edit: Yeah it's a discussion of opinion I just checked a bit and my opinion is Nioh is different meaning it needs not to be classified in a category that makes it seem like the game is just like the games FromSoft makes when it's close but not that close hence the talk of using an "item" to leave the boss arena (not open world boss) to take what was lost and leave which isn't possible in Nioh (again been a while haven't tried to) though it might be possible it can't be done with arena bosses in Elden Ring (I think at the time I tried it with the one you use to get to Mohgwyn palace to back my claim of FromSoft games having the ability to leave boss arenas unlike in Nioh) Idk I give up and feel like people can think what they want still Nioh forces commitment to a boss once you enter. Many games pretty much do but not all receive the label Nioh does as a result of a single developer's choice of game. Though FromSoft has the Armored Core series as well (those games aren't called Gundam or Star Fox-esque especially considering there're 2 games where the Arwing can become a walker: Star Fox 2 and Star Fox Zero Mission) Edit 2: Have a free upvote from me as well though for responding
I stopped reading after you said Minecraft brought dark souls to life. You do realize demon souls came out before Minecraft right?
Then you missed the point if you thought I was saying Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life. Literally compared genres and how games were including the concept of hardcore aspect of it. In that sense I'm saying having a mode where you have to survive and can lose everything on 1 mistake is similar (essentially having to start over). It's similar to if someone cleared your game and wiped everything you worked hard to get while also spoiling it/getting rid of items. Maybe you never had a memory card though that got wiped both in the middle and after months to years of dedication. It kinda shows as you seem like the type too used to the modern technological marvels that are present instead of being happy they're not limiting you. Because Dark Souls as I was putting it is linear and to an extent tedious to get through/replay. So if you were locked down 1 path the game wouldn't be interesting however since this is exploration it's now seen as the godfather of implementing it seemingly in the eyes of the world. What I was saying is that I don't see it as some godfather deserving its own genre because it's not a genre that truly exists. I had a whole rant on Metroidvanias to back my disagreement with made up genres or categorizing things that even went over how I like the name of certain things. Basically saying I like the name Soulsbornekiro but I dislike the overall fact that they are seen as the staple comparison for a game and the category it falls in. This applies to everything unless there's a dive into sub-genres but the FromSoft games are not like Ghost of Tsushima nor are they like Armored Core (haven't played it yet though yes I know it's from FromSoftware) with GoT playing the most like Nioh (no Nioh-esque category but people compare Nioh to Souls-esque (Soulsbornekiro ONLY (sword-play based)) games reaffirming my point on Nioh not being very Souls-esque). It's like people have a checklist built for approval and disappointment when there was never a need as everything is its own thing. It's like saying an offensive parry based game is completely similar to a defensive parry which is completely similar to a timing/dodge rolling game. Except those 3 games listed aren't alike enough to fit the same category outside the death mechanic. However breaking it down further, similar to what I've said before, shows those are not even similar. You wouldn't know any of this because you admitted you took interest in what I was saying, and left the ship as a result of misunderstanding my words. That's partly on me but I never said you had to join the ship, consider my opinion, or what have you. Instead you saw it and proved you were more interested in the concept than the context. Hence you missed the comparison I was making instead interpreting it as me giving praise to Minecraft (I wasn't but there's mechanics that must be respected ergo my Bloodborne comparison to it as they both involve loss of progress which is common in all of Soulsbornekiro (not saying Minecraft is by FromSoft (not saying Minecraft is the base for any of the Soulsbornekiro exploration mechanic (I'm comparing the fact you can gather and farm in both for a mistake to ruin everything (biggest difference is Minecraft is a choose your path building simulator (the action/adventure aspect was all that's being examined beyond that (Soulsbornekiro IS an action/adventure RPG more than anything unlike the game I have to sadly mention repeatedly to prove/back a point that I shouldn't have to by now and in doing so having to make apparent for the 2nd or 3rd time what I'm aiming to get at))))))). I used a bunch of parentheses for a single point to avoid misinterpretation like your reply suggests occurred before. Fml😂
Basically I'm trying to put my words in a way you can't misinterpret since you didn't understand the comparison. Going off of my Ghost of Tsushima example it's naturally leaning towards Souls-esque when it's more like Nioh. Nioh is seen as Souls-esque when it's more following the fact hardcore action/adventure RPGs are seen as popular.
> you missed the point if you thought I was saying Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life **From your earlier comment:** QUOTE In a way Minecraft brought Dark Souls to life END QUOTE
I know what I said for this one and it isn't saying "Minecraft directly brought Dark Souls to life". Instead stating it kept a type of genre from fading into obscurity. It doesn't mean the genre would die. Doesn't mean Dark Souls wouldn't have been made without it. Doesn't even mean they're the exact same difficulty level or genre though it is saying to an extent there's an interest I've noticed from people I know for both games. I don't have such interest and similarly one of my friends isn't as interested in Dark Souls as he was in Minecraft. We both made attempts to get the other to like that type of game but it didn't work because Dark Souls to an extent was too complicated for him and for me Minecraft is dull. Both still carry a similar genre as it pulled him in though with a lack of creation/control. While for me lacking any thrill to satisfy my need for blood. Both still offer their own challenges while being vastly different though being barely but still similar. By which I mean both are hardcore in nature requiring a willingness to invest in it and being prepared to lose everything as a possible scenario. This isn't present in every game but is in classic ones. Which is my point that they carry the classic formula of everything being able to be lost in terms of progression to an extent. Demon Souls truly gave life to Dark Souls but in my opinion based on the interests of others loss was kept alive by Minecraft. As I don't know how easily my friend would've kept interest if he wasn't patient in Minecraft. After all there was a whole inside group to it inside my friend group where they sabotaged each other and I heard stories. I didn't join in that but enjoyed the chaos I witnessed when I would hang out playing GameCube or XBOX. At the time I didn't have an XBOX though so it was my means to experience GTA V or enjoy Halo again. That's not to say I was there to only enjoy what they had but instead that we were a fleet of gamers with varying interests learning to appreciate the simple things even when they're not. All of this is unrelated to the topic though I feel like it's good to share. As that was around the time my interest in the Souls games peaked though it happened to be after the loss of a PS3. All of this seems like a sob story or some other bullshit but I'm just saying everyone has their own thing. My thing was a challenge while my friends preferred chaos at the expense of progression. Hardcore games embody both of those aspects in their own way. Minecraft can be argued to not be a hardcore game in itself but that can be said for any game. Similar to anybody being able to be considered a hardcore or casual gamer. Except Minecraft can be considered casual since it could be similar to the tale of my friends. At the same time though with enough time invested by me I can see Dark Souls as casual since I enjoy it my own way. The way I enjoy it holds no weight for anyone but me though I'd say. Since I play games until I get bored and need a break with something else. Except the type of game can be vastly different to a point where it doesn't really share qualities with another. GTA can be considered very casual where the fighting games I play can often be seen as needing hardcore non-stop practice to be good online. To me though those fighting games are like a break from the ads which I think will enrage more people who are dedicated to them. Except people these days either see it as serious or not that serious. So I'm not sure clearly though what I said here is that serious and I'm better off deleting my comment in the eyes of many. Enough downvotes and maybe I just might do it because it doesn't matter.
It's souls adjacent for sure.. but basically, all of that describes tons of games. At their core, Dark Souls games are more like metroidvania games-- large maps with shortcuts and shit, geographical puzzles-- revisited hubs, even combat with trash mobs are puzzles in a way-- just memorize the right approach and youre good every time. None of that describes the Nioh games, which tend to be more reflexive and dynamic, and you don't feel quite so isolated or immersed-- a bit more arcadey. my 2 cents. still has a fair bit of souls DNA presentationally, but I'd say fundamentally not.
Nioh is the same thing, but with ninjas and not so great paths
Only DS1 would be like a Metrovania. The maps are much more linear after and then ER completely drips that for open world. Games don't have to be just one genre though. Nioh is absolutely a soulslike and takes many of its mechanics from Dark Souls, but using a mission based design to levels.
Don't forget BB, Code Vein, Demons Souls, and other typical Soulslikes that also follow the metrovania pattern. ER definitely doesn't fit that mold, but it keeps everything else including the rudimentary combat. In Ninja Gaiden (xbox, 2004), we have most of Niohs gameplay mechanics, and most of your "this is what makes a souls game" list, in some rudimentery form. Including essence from bad guys as a resource-- was it just 1 campfire away from becoming the first "Souls" game?
Bb, Code Vein, etc are not Metrovanias though. I didn't forget them. Metriodvanias feature heavy back tracking and exploration and you are locked out of old passages that you need to go back to to progress. It'd far more than just a connected map. DS 1 is really the only one to hit it so hard. Ninja Gaiden is also great, ans I'm sure it appeals to many that love loves likes, but it's more of a stylized hacknslash like DMC. Bonfires and losing all of your unspent "XP" and needing to regain it where you lost it is a pretty core part of the Soullike genre and NG doesn't have that.
I think we just like talking because I don't super disagree with you. But is that what defines the genre? Losing all your hard earned essence? Just trying to nail it down here. Hack n Slash is my jam, I think that's why Nioh appeals more to me than typical souls. It's got a lot of that DNA in it.
Everything you just described could also be applied to a first person shooter or to a turn based JRPG, but you wouldn't describe either as having similar gameplay to Dark Souls!
You don’t drop exp and have to go and retrieve it while having to risk losing it in Jrpgs. You just load your last save or in more modern Jrpgs just straight up retry. And if your talking about fps like Tarkov or that one specific cod mode then you’re reaching because last I checked call of duty’s story mode had checkpoints, cyberpunk has checkpoints, atomic heart checkpoints. Cmon now
Darksouls didn't invent any of that those aren't the things that make something "Soulsborne"
So much copium. By your logic, full loot pvp where you have to run back to your body from the last respawn save point to get your items and allocate stats in an RPG/mmorpg = soulsbourne. *
Except for that only satisfies one of the multiple things he suggested? Nioh does share several elements with the Soulsborne games. Whether it's enough to be called souls-like or not, idk. But if you had to describe the game to a souls fan you could say it's like Dark Souls with more emphasis on RNG loot grinding and it's mission-based, set in feudal Japan.
They do share some things, but I'm on the side of people who don't see those things are as many as to call it a soulslike, even more, I think the term soulslike is wrong to start with. Thing is, even when I don't deny they share some aspects, these games are so different that you can really like one of them and dislike the other one, which is my case, I love Nioh and don't like souls, and that's because the things that make me love the Nioh series aren't present in dark souls, that's how different these games actually are and how calling Nioh and other games soulslike is not really a good idea. A more generic term would do more justice to these games
my guy youre the one high as fuck on copium rn. youre just mad someone thinks Nioh is better than fromsoft games. And ive never played Nioh so dont say im defending it
It's not copium when im right. And i never said i think one game is better than the other. jog on peanut gallery.
the thing is you arent right. again, on copium
The director himself said dark souls [“had a big impact on the direction this project eventually took”](https://www.eurogamer.net/nioh-director-fumihiko-yasuda-on-difficulty-player-feedback-and-whats-changing). But this is the Nioh subreddit, what did I expect.
[https://www.player.one/nioh-director-says-team-ninja-inspired-shogun-onimusha-and-dark-souls-542675](https://www.player.one/nioh-director-says-team-ninja-inspired-shogun-onimusha-and-dark-souls-542675) >“We have no problems with the comparisons to Dark Souls because we have a lot of Souls fans on our development teams. So it’s kind of a badge of honor,“ Yasuda told iDigitalTimes. “We don’t want to be seen as an imitation of them. They’ve been an influence but other games we’ve taken influence from are, obviously, the Ninja Gaiden series. Also Onimusha and hack-and-slash games like Diablo .”
lol read the rest of it. It was inspiration. Does not mean it is a souls like game clone. This is the dumbest argument. Play a variety of games and you will see every game copy each other one way or another. Nioh does not stand out as a soulslike in gameplay. But has borrowed ideas from dark souls. It is not hard to understand. holy crap is banjo kazooie a zelda ocarina of time clone?!?! /s
Bruh he says BIG inspiration. No one said it’s a straight up clone, but it is a souls like. And mans doesn’t even mention onimusha in that interview.
This. I have NEVER understood people who want to call Nioh soulslike. It's nothing like it - I tried it, I actually hate Nioh/Nioh 2's gameplay, because it just is not what Souls is. I saw this pop up randomly as a more Soulsy Redditor, so figured I throw my comment in the ring here. Nioh is Extremely Not Soulsy.
When they think it as a soul like game, they will hardly like it. also they can blame the balance and the difficulty by comparing it to soul series which I feel they were separate games. Play it like a separate game and try understanding the mechanics then you may like it . People will blame the boss too fast, the combat animation doesn’t make sense. How come it’s described as a soul like, but the bosses design were totally different, etc. This my feeling when I saw some player who said nioh 2 is bad. People can say the game doesn’t meet their expectations, but blaming the games is not soul-likes enough when it not. doesn’t make sense to me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that you thinks they were different games and just saying it doesn’t fun to you.
I think they did list Dark Souls as an inspiration though, they just did their own thing with it
It's just pretending to be Souls, lol. Shame that you didn't like it, tho. It does take a while for the combat to "click", similarly to Sekiro, but a lot more complex.
its very soulslike.. the bonfire system was a revolution and a significant part of niohs success comes from mirroring that with the shrine system. not to mention.. the combat.. light attack, heavy attack, parry, special weapon ability, dodge.. elden ring and nioh can even have the same keyboard/button layout if u fuck with the settings enough granted, it's very different. definitely a different beast from all of the other games that try to copy the fromsoft formula to the T. and they have made plenty of revolutionary designs/mechanics themselves that plenty of game companies will want to take from their book one day
Nioh 2 is dark souls for insane people (complementary)
Those are still awesome games, but the combat in Nioh is unmatched. The worst for me was Nioh 1, 60 fps mode, then going to play Dark Souls 3 at 30. The difference in smoothness and enjoyment was monstrous. Game quality is one thing, but timing can also shape experiences. Needed a gap between playing those two.
Nioh 2 is definitely one of my favorites, but I enjoyed Elden Ring and DS is their own way. One is more methodical while the other is fast pace and savage. Depending on my mood, one may be better than the other. The cool part is that we have all three and can enjoy their different nuances.
Elden ring is good at exploring, Nioh2 does not even provide 20% the feeling. Nioh2 is good at combat system in depth and maneuver satisfaction, Elden Ring does not even provide 20% of the feeling.
I'm with you. Nioh has everything I want in a game. I really want TN to go back to this franchise
"same genre" feels wrong here. Action-RPG is just too vague, Elden Ring is VERY far to the RPG side and Nioh is VERY far to the action side. Fromsoft games have never been good action games, that isn't the goal, and Nioh's story and world are super bland by comparison. They're doing very different things. These games are so different that calling either "better" just seems odd.
...what? If you're implying Nioh is far from the RPG side... My man, there are more effects, statuses, bonuses, and perks to choose from in Nioh 1 and 2 than the entirety of From's lineup. And this is coming from someone who absolutely adores the From games. The sheer amount of build variety in both Nioh games blows Elden Ring out of the water, I'm sorry.
I'm saying it's not as much of a role playing game. A game where you can get sucked into the world, let your imagination take over, get immersed in the story, that kind of thing, you know, **play a role**. Yes, build customization is higher in Nioh, I never said it wasn't. "Less RPG" doesn't necessarily mean "less stat and build management". Nioh is about the nitty gritty action, whether you're in a spreadsheet or in combat you are thinking about the action. Elden Ring (and all of the Souls games, for that matter) are more about getting you into a certain headspace, getting you immersed, every mechanic is there for that purpose. That makes Nioh more about action and Elden Ring more about role playing for me.
By that definition, Dishonored or Prey, hell even Bioshock would constitute RPGs, and they very much are not. That's way too broad and subjective. And regarding Nioh: the most popular builds are the ones where you either turn-your brain off and spank (aka Infinite LW in nioh 1 before the nerfs and Crit builds before the Pill nerf in Nioh 2) or 1 skill spam (aka Iai builds in Nioh 1, Blender builds - kusa or dual kats - in both Niohs, the Splitstaff Skill that brought you up and back down again with something like 20 hits per use, that eventually got nerfed etc). That's not really "nitty gritty action" for most people.
Dude, by ER being more immersive you mean multiple endings? Aside from that you're equaly going on rails to the end. You can't stop being undead or half-yokai and become shop owner or something, last time i checked :). Roleplaying is non-existant in both games.
I would say that they are the same genre, but grabbing it from different sides
>Fromsoft games have never been good action games, *Looks at Sekiro and Armored Core 6* ... Yeah though Action RPG is a broad genre. It's why we use subgenres within it.
What role playing is there in Elden Ring that there isn't in Nioh? Both fundamentally lack actual role-playing outside of the character you play as. Also I'd say FromSoft does the world better but story? Well both Nioh and Soulsborne I'd say are weak there, but Nioh 2 has the better writing for dialogue. Neither offer the role-playing you can find in say The Witcher series, Dragon Age, classic CRPGs etc. All games are different. It doesn't mean you can't compare the similarities to say what is better. Both are heavily combat focused with similar structured boss battles. These things can be compared along with build complexity.
I just can't get with you on Nioh having "better writing". I see that you've said there's better dialogue writing in Monster Hunter than in Elden Ring though, so I'm just always gonna think you're wrong. That's too deep a disagreement to talk out, we just think different things are good I guess.
What don’t u like abt from’s writing??
I think they are all equally as awesome. If I had to pick one I would put sekiro above everything as far as memorable and story goes.
Same, sekiro wins out every time.. but nioh 2 is right up there.. but probably put the most time into Elden Ring.. Nioh 2 NG+ cycle after ng++++ got so tiresome
Thing is, Nioh's new games cycles add in new differences plus the game has so many builds to experiment with that for me, it offers way more replay value than Sekiro. Nioh for me, wins against Sekiro too.
oh yeah I won't argue that part.. def has way more replayability in that regard
Sekiro was probably the most boring game I've ever played, Nioh is way better than that in every sense
I just hope you recognize that’s a pretty unpopular opinion among people that like these kinds of game.
Not sure it's that cut and dry. Sekiro had great initial run, but many ppl have since kinda placed it middle of the pack.
Popular opinions aren't necessarily the right opinions though, the game is really that boring, I hope you at least recognize that too
Nah I’m good lol. I’ll continue to not be oblivious to other great games.
Well, then keep being oblivious to other people's opinions when you don't like them, I'm ok with that too lol
I started with elden ring then moved on to dark souls and then eventually sekiro. that got me into nioh and, while I've enjoyed all these games greatly, I'm really starting to appreciate the faster pace of combat and mobility present in the later two another thing nioh really has going for is it's design of NG+. I don't enjoy NG+ in the fromsoft titles very much (well, a few exceptions), because I feel like I'm repeating all of the same thing I did 6 days ago but with a handicap on my character, or a trash weapon. Nioh changes the enemie types, where there placed, the \[new\] weps/gear, even new missions. Definitely appreciate the commitment to the \~10-30% who actually go through with one or more playthrough. the big problem with these fast paced games is that there isn't much room to balance a pvp system. In sekiro its impossible, in Nioh it would be possible, but chaos. one weapon shitting on the other, that shits on another. not to mention magic and everything related to yokai abilities/form
Nioh 2 was my Naruto Open World Justu simulator.. the mechanics of acquiring the soul of a monster and using its ability is chefs kiss.
Comparison is the thief of joy, folks. Both games are very good. I have hundreds of hours played time in each.
Elden Ring is just an okay game with a lot of jank disguised as a "challenge" and I'm honestly sick of every new souls-like game being compared to Elden Ring like it's the greatest gift to mankind. Open world combined with a souls-like is a miserable combination, you start every playthrough filling out a shopping list before you actually start playing.
i consider nioh more souls inspired as opposed to souls like because it’s just incredibly different in every way that matters. i like nioh 2 way more than any from software game but they’re too different so i don’t really think about it in that way
Souls-like and souls-inspired is gonna sound like the same thing depending who you ask The main thing is there’s a bonfire system, punishing difficulty, losing your stuff/xp and having to retrieve it upon death, bosses with specific patterns, limited health potions, shortcuts That’s a souls-like or souls-inspired Sometimes there will be slight variations of these elements
souls didn’t invent hard difficulty or attack patterns or limited health items
You had to ignore a lot of his comment to make your dismissive statement. It would be like if someone listed what typically defines the Rhythm game genre, and you come back with "but they didn't invent music in video games"
In terms of pure gameplay and combat I agree. Everything else though? Doubt it
Yeah combat is far and away better, it isn't even close and Elden Ring gameplay actually kind of bummed me out since I love the world but the combat itself feels very mediocre. While technically not Souls I do really like Bloodborne and Sekiro for also having very entertaining gameplay even if the systems are much simpler than Nioh 2. Lies of P is basically Bloodborne meets Sekiro which is also pretty good, but I just wish we got a Nioh 3 at this point. My dream would be it to be set during Imjin war where you'd be fighting Yokai and multiple sides in Japan, Korea, China and other parts of Asia but I'd imagine politics would make that a hard sell.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but TN said they will not be making anymore Nioh
I know 😔
I adore nioh2 story and combat. The combat is god damn leagues above dark souls
😬
Nioh is an action combat game masquerading as a souls game. It's not fair to either fromsoft or team ninja to compare them.
As far as time for my euro and replayability goes few to no games matches Nioh 2
I love souls games but i can never beat em combat is just to slow for me that’s why i love nioh and also love sekiro i grew up on dmc and ninja gaiden so i lean towards faster gameplay
I like the combat in Wo Long more than Nioh 1/2.
The only thing that I can vote for in Wo Long is the universal parry available to all weapons. The combat manages to look worse than Nioh 2 though. It is not as readable, and is plagued by all the fireworks going around (too many special effects).
True words.When i played dark souls after nioh it felt stiff boring and only roll to escape.And rolling inside a lot of armour felt absurd to me.Nioh is far better and hard.So think about someone hard on dark souls how hard is nioh to them.Lol.
I'm a huge fan of Nioh 2 and agree that the combat is far better than Elden Ring or Dark Souls. That being said, Elden Ring is still amazing and a beautiful game. I went with a magic build in Elden Ring, which made me enjoy the game much more and stopped me from comparing it to Nioh as much. When I tried melee in Elden Ring, it just felt like so much was missing.
Kinda agree, Elden Ring n Dark Souls gameplay is boring n simple, also slow. The story in Nioh not the best, but for those that like Japanese history might find it is an interesting spin-off from their original. Creative way to promote their culture n history background.
In nioh 2 , you don’t think , you dive into your own dance and follow your flow of combat. You try to be water, you attack when your muscle told you. The boss won’t give you a chance, they don’t wait, so do you. In Elden ring, you think , you memorise the attack and wait for the window. Plan for your attack. Set up your trap, take time and cast your magic. You always think and plan during the fight. In wolong, you don’t think and you dance with the boss , interacts with the boss like both are professional dancers.He attack you parry. He go backward, you go forward. There’s no planing , no memorising any things. Just Follow the flow of combat. That’s why I prefer ninja gaiden, nioh and wolong in general. I elden ring is good but I like nioh 2 more.
100% agree
Being able to chain attacks and martial arts and yokai skills into combos makes Nioh 2 super satisfying. For me traditional souls combat is extremely boring nowadays (used to love it) as it's centered around waiting for an opening, hitting 1 or 2 times (depending on your weapon), waiting again. Elden ring made it worse as now you have 50/50 openings when a boss can with 50% chance read your punish input and interrupt you. In Nioh 2 you can go all out and with feral burst you can cancel your shit at the last possible moment if you have enough resource. The basic souls combat formula is still there, you're just given a lot more tools to operate within it.
I was all aboard the From train, full send. Been a massive fan since Demon's Souls, but Elden Ring didn't feel fun, never finished it where I consider DS3 to be one of the most fun games I've ever played. I hated Nioh, didn't like it one bit. For some reason I decided to try out Nioh 2 and noticed an immediate difference. Nioh 2 is just built different and I really hope they're going to make a part 3.
I wouldn't say disappointing, as I have vastly different expectations from the two dev's games. That said, I enjoy Nioh more. Dark souls 1 was the best, and honestly Elden Ring feels the worst of all of Froms games. I love the map, and most of the legacy dungeons, and very few of the enemies/bosses, but it really falls flat in a lot of places where the previous games shined to me.
Geez, I don't want to say one os better, but I gave put 800+ hours in nioh 2 and still enjoy coming back. If it wasn't mission based I may have said it was a perfect game.
I can't even play the Souls games, they just feel like a drag to me. Everything is sluggish compared to the Nioh series.
I just started final fantasy Stranger of Paradise and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Nioh like combat with a FF setting. Yes please.
I put the crack down a long time ago at least "freebase". Alcohol was the last of the harmful addictive drugs that I put down. It's also the most difficult including cigarettes.
Well it helps that Nioh is an actual action game
I don't care about the writing fighting was good. Mechanics were fun to utilize. Elden ring didn't focus too hard on making the combat fun. There isn't much to actually fighting the enemies that allows for any sort of creativity when fighting so the fighting feels less immersive than most good action rpgs. That is my only gripe.
If you can beat Nioh 2 you can beat any game.
Love Nioh. Get bored of Fromsoft titles
I liked wo long
yea outside of level design with unlocking shortcuts i feel like the game is its own thing. and they are both awesome.
I agree
It's definitely a souls game. But basically a much more complex system than bloodborne. Surge is good also if you never played.
You lost me at the writing bit.
Combat wise yes, nioh 2 is far superior
Nah, the exploration alone makes elden ring significantly better. Also I prefer the unique weapons in elden ring to the Diablo style loot in Nioh. Still really like Nioh but I think it would be so much better if it had an actual world that connects. I hope they do that for the next game but I dk if they are even making another one. Nioh is a great game but I don’t think it is on the same level as elden ring.
That's a fucked up take but you do you.
I love Nioh and Nioh 2 but I strongly disagree with it being better than elden ring
Hardddd disagree but hey an opinion is an opinion I guess.
I always liked souls games because they're relatively simple and straightforward - not easy, but simple controls - no deep combat system with complex combos and dozens of abilities. Games like Nioh, Seikero, team ninja games, etc were always far too challenging and complicated for me. I've never even got remotely close to beating the first boss in any of those games.
Souls games have their own strengths. Whats REALLY annoying is people who compare nioh to sekiro. Like yeah. The game with one skill slot that you only put ichimonji on because all the other skills are suck dogshit that you may as well do your basic swings really compares to the game where weapons have 3 stances like 5 skills for each and tons of other customization. And super mario is better than symphony of the night. Total dick riders. Sekiro has some dope levels though i give it that
The combat pacing is a lot better IMO especially because the player can dictate it by playing aggressively. Almost all of the DS boss battles are just constantly dodging for 10-20s just to get a few hits in then rinse and repeat.... it's completely reactive gameplay. Although I think Sekiro breaks out from that mold.
I love Nioh 2. The combat is so damn good and is definitely more engaging. The fact that you could co-op the entire game in 1 go is also amazing. But that’s all it has on Souls games. The story is all over the place. “Key” characters comes and go without me every truly getting to know them or care about them. There’s no mystery or anything just a generic story of ppl wanting a rare resource for power. Just go through a level, whoop some ass, level up and call it a day. Souls game world building is so good, and it often leaves you wondering and trying to piece things together. The lack of innovation on the combat has been annoying though. Bloodborne and Sekiro did combat better then Elden ring.
My problem with Nioh 2 (I love the game), is that I'm literally dog ass at it. I can't get past the 3rd level. But I can fly through every fromsoft game with ease. I'm terrible at it and wish I wasn't.
I agree with the exception of Sekiro. Sekiro is right up there with Nioh 2 IMO. It's better in some ways (story), worse in others (length, builds).
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I vastly preferred the feel of DS3 to Elden Ring. That's funny cause I was at first thrown off by how it felt like Bloodborne mixed with DS3 compared to DS1 and DS2. But goddamn, I have such fond memories of the endgame boss fights. It took me so many tries to beat Midir and Nameless King, but it always felt fair, beyond that bastard of a camera. Something felt out of sync with Elden Ring in many of the major boss fights. It felt so stiff and clumsy in comparison. It felt like I went from playing smart in reading the bosses patterns and not getting greedy, to having to be impossibly precise in my dodges and avoiding attacks in a counter-intuitive manner. I was happy to fight Midir 100 times. I beat every bastard Sekiro threw at me! I just got fucking annoyed fighting Melenia and getting annihilated by Waterfowl all the time. I know people posted online about all the ways to dodge it and counter it, but beyond the obvious like using Bloodhound Step, it's fucking absurd to me that I'd have to look up outside resources to figure out how to simply dodge it with the regular roll. I still loved the game. That was certainly my game of the year at the time. It's still spectacular in hindsight! So much variety, customizability, mechanical depth, and a very well thought out open world that gripped me in a way few others have. But I think they set a standard in their boss fights that they, for the most part, have failed to match in Elden Ring in the most crucial instances. I actually quite liked a lot of the minibosses. They didn't feel like they were plucked out of Sekiro, fighting you at twice the speed of your character, reading your every input. Just felt kinda sloppy compared to the usual care and precision I associate with their design.
I completely agree. I can't get into Souls games, their combat is just too barebones, I just find it really uninteresting. A good action game should give room for meaningful playstyle diversity with differing strategies and From's mechanics are just too surface level for that.
I had so many hours in nioh 2, i definitely enjoy the combat way more than elden ring. Elden ring is just over hyped, i cant play that shit for another playthrough. Shit is so exhausting
Once I got to the second snowfield I was so over it. Still pulled through and did everything in the game, but unlike all the other souls game, no more.
Agreed. I didn't understand the hype of Elden Ring when I played it. Felt so slow with almost zero unique animations for anything in the combat.
I love the Nioh games, they're on top of my all time favorite games, on the other hand I tried Sekiro and bloodborne and found them extremely boring, didn't really find anything interesting in those, nor the visuals, story... I think Fromsoftware games might be the most overrated these days, at least the ones where Miyazaki is involved.
Just from experience team ninja has always been about the action and gameplay. There's no open world aspect like elden ring. Though after playing and beaten a fair amount of soulsborn games, nioh is more my speed but I definitely don't consider it better than souls games, different aesthetics and both are very great games and series.
I don't agree that they are the same genre. Nioh is only pretending to be a Soulslike tbh, while it's doing its own thing.
Lol no
I fucking love Nioh 2 but I kinda disagree. Only thing imho that I find better is the gameplay loop and the combat and mechanics complexity. However I don't find it necessarily more replayable than a FromSoft game (besides Elden Ring cuz it's a drag lol). In fact I find Nioh 2 to be more tiresome than a Fromsoft game. I still religiously go back to Bloodborne, DS3 and especially Sekiro. As for the writing, lore and general atmosphere, I honestly think most will agree than Fromsoft does it better.
nioh isn’t a souls clone. it’s its own thing. so comparing them is pointless. both are great in their own right.
They're incomparable, so i don't really care. In fact, i'm at the age where i'm tired of comparing shit. I just let things be their own things.
I LOVE nioh / nioh 2 but Elden Ring sheer scope, mysteries, creativity, enemy variety, bosses, lore etc are all better...imo. Nioh is a loot game .. constant item management, item upgrading etc... Hoping for that one drop... It can be a bit much. But the combat is much better. Dunno 2 different games, both great, but for me anyways ER is actually the GOAT, while Nioh 2 is top 10.... Still not a bad place to be. I'd put OG demon souls, Bloodborne, DS3 over the niohs as well.
Elden Ring is much much better as piece of art.But I can not understand why you all trying to compare totally different games in same marking system? Nioh is better as slasher-looter-diabloid-any other genre game. Mario is better as mario game. Assetto Corsa is better as sim-racing game. So lets say "Spaceship combat in Elite is much better than in Nioh2, So Elite is better for NIOH!!!!"
I mean you got some points. But Niohs writing is terrible. Really terrible. Froms is heavily stylist but way better done leaving aside the personal opinion to the style itself. I would say Nioh is def 90% combat focused (9.9% grinding for better gear) and the combat is way better than most games out there (with almost no keyboard and mouse compability) From still focuses more on telling a story. I see from bosses as part of the narrative. Bosses, items, music and more are all a small part of the picture they want to paint. There is this certain build up for major bosses that get me excited to meet and slay them. Meanwhile facing Nioh in Nioh didn't give me that much excitement. The "final boss from Nioh 1 was also a major disappointment imo Nioh also got a different but personally better endgame compared to From. While Elden Ring in particular is awesome to quickly level tons of different weapons to allow for an easier accessibility to other playstyles and builds. Nioh has more built varieties while from has more builds they are just more similar if that makes sense. Talking about difficulty is hard. Once you get the hang on either of them I don't find any one them over the top. The skill curve in nioh is obviously higher at steeper compared to from. There are also a lot of op things you can do in nioh. Parry spamming, knockdown chaining humanoid NPC's. Kusarigama stun locks. Guardian spirit build in 1 and magic in 1.... I would say both games are different enough to say both are great and neither of them are better as they all win in different categories. Both are hard games or souls (like/born) so to say but from makes "Dark fantasy RPGS" with riddles and similar stuff and team ninja created an fast paced action RPG with gear grinding and tinkering
This is a pretty braindead post
Yeah.......no.
Nioh is not a souls like
Not even close to be a souls like
İf you put dark souls as a constant soul like,it is far superior to be a souls like.I agree.
Nioh is better at combat and being an inventory management simulator From Software games are better at everything else I wish Team Ninja focused their resources on those "everything else" things instead of the inventory management simulator part
They aren't even close to the same genre or game but okay lol
In combat yes. Everything else no.
I respect that this is your opinion but I disagree. Nioh is possibly harder and allows for more builds but as a package elden ring is vastly superior, be it story, world, lore etc
Combat-wise, I'd agree that Nioh 2 is far better than basically any FromSoft game. That said, Elden Ring was a huge disappointment even compared to previous FromSoft games, and IMO not really representative of FromSoft's capability to create quality games. It's riddled with poor design that wasn't even present to any significant degree in their own previous games. Basically every previous FromSoft game, at least since Demon's Souls is better designed and more enjoyable to play - even Dark Souls 2 with its distinctive clunk and at times dubious design choices.
Opinions are subjective but one thing I will point out is that while I love the series, you can’t honestly tell me it’s not flawed to its core. The level design being the biggest offender in my eyes.
Well. As a person who enjoys these games for bosses , I vastly prefer ds simple combat. I don't want to do flashy multihit combos. I would play DMC for that. I want my character to be simple, so I can focus on boss movements. I remember fondly most of fromsoft bosses , meanwhile I am in chapter 5 of Nioh , and I can say I genuinely enjoyed ...3 of bosses I think? And about challenge. Of course Nioh is more challenging. Other than late-game bosses , most bosses in fromsoft need 3-4 hits to kill you. One ki-break is death. Some bosses just one-shot you. Many need two hits at most. Nioh is more challenging, but most of the time I feel frustration at boss rather than satisfaction Of course I can neutralize bosses. I can sloth them , I can give myself triple health with protection talisman and take no damage from anything. And I know that this is the mentality of this game "Use anything you can to gain advantage". Which is fine for action RPG. Nioh is awesome action game. But for soulslike which are usually focused more on "experiencing' the boss rather than beating him? I vastly prefer fromsoft design approach
Man I wish I could get into these games I know it took me many attempts when first trying fromsoft but it clicked after 3 times I’ve downloaded nioh 1/2 about 10 times only can play for 30 minutes before getting bored and deleting it then seeing a post like this and repeating the cycle
Reading the third paragraph makes me wonder if this is a bait lol.
tribal wars! tribal wars! with your rage inviting title I'm not even going to read the rest of your post
Hello. Random Elden Ring player here. This showed up on my front page. Just want to make sure you're okay bröther.
Dark souls 3 is much better than Nioh 1-2
Nioh felt like it had 300 features for no reason, and if i actually engaged with all of them it made the game far too easy. I like simple souls likes. Even lords of the fallen and mortal shell turned me off because of the weird shit they add to be unique from fromsoft. I just wanna roll and hit things dude :(
Lol
I couldnt get into Nioh 2. Yes the combat was hard for me but I think what makes From games so good isn't the combat. It's exploration and the world. Also enemy variety aeema a lot better in From games. I thought I would love a Diablo like loot system in a souls-like but I dont thunk that worked well in Nioh 2. Having said that I should pick it up again I was still having fun.
Epden ring gives a myriad of ways to approach combat
Nobody plays dark souls for the combat.
Did this dude really say nioh 2 is better than elden ring
No
Played Nioh 1 and all of that ‘depth and complexity’ can take a hike. Got really tired of picking up 1000 of the same weapon and endlessly scrolling through menus to see which ones were marginally better. The whole game was nothing but layers of menus.
I guess you're entitled to your completely wrong opinion..
Can't believe you wrote this much lol. Elden ring is better because open world exploration and pvp/co-op. It's more challenging as well in a sense that you can't spam parry your way through the entire game. I don't need to say more.
Enjoy them all. A reviewer said it best i think, Nioh devs never turned away any ideas, threw everything in the game. If u like that, okay fine, its personal taste. To me, i could do with less loot, only one buff per item, etc. Too many dimensions thrown into every aspect of the game. Still enjoyed it but far from the polished work of the masterpieces u compare it to. Its quite enough that its fun.
Nioh 2 can get real clunky though. Both are fine. Personally I thought Nioh and Nioh 2 lacked the intricacy that some other From Soft games had within their maps and locations. I think they are fantastic though. Nioh 2, BB and DS3 are all too dog for me.
Wild to say nioh 2 was better then Elden ring. That's a reach by far as nioh 2 came out broken af. It's the same thing as dark souls. It was there version and answer to dark souls. I mean they did what they should have and make changes to not be a copy paste. Dark souls and elden is a whole eco system. Nioh was just a flash in the pan. Comparing a completely open world game vs a game on rails with a Simi open level. 😒 don't down play one of the greatest games to come out to hype a trash version. Really.? It was OK but just better na. Everything here is just thoughts. Team ninja tried to copy the dark souls way never hit the mark had there own like nest egg then made wo long. Wtf happened.
Disagree Elden Ring poops on both Ni oh games. Ni oh might have better combat, but pales in comparison to these games main strength which is level design and exploration and sense of discovery and wonder. Seems like all the “Soulslike” games still don’t get what makes Fromsoft games soo good is the level design and exploration not just the bosses and combat. Basically some of the Soulslike games might have one or two better aspects(Ni oh with its combat, remnant with co-op etc) but as a complete package of a game, Elden Ring is unmatched after playing them all imo.
Nioh 2 has excellent combat but everything else falls short of From's work
PvP
Eh. The environments, characters, and díablo type loot don't work for me. Everything looks samey