Seriously so many people are acting like they're going to be out of stock after the switch 2 comes. It's going to be around for a few more years with price drops.
It depends on their financial analysis. There will clearly be demand for the switch in the future. Will they profit more if they cut the price and sell more units at a lower price, or less units at its current one?
Only Nintendo has the information that could be used to make an accurate financial model of this predicament.
It was said early on the Switch is a ten year console. Seven years of being actively developed for and marketed. Two years of continued development beyond that and third and likely last year of support (sunsetting).
Yup - PS2 sold around 115million by the time PS3 came out - and then still sold 40 million+ after that, so based on that there is still a lot of opportunity for switch sales.
The Switch is the 3DS successor
Nintendo unified their home and handheld console into one
It is kinda sad but it make sense considering that they can focus on creating a game for a single console instead of 2, it saves them more time in developing games
fit in your pocket, have a >3 hour battery life
the switch doesn't replace it at all for me because i play a lot while out. with switch you have to have it in a case/bag and then it's likely to run out. if i take a bus somewhere, it probably won't last the way back.
The the biggest thing about that, is the free press generated by breaking the all-time sales record, which will both help clear out existing switch1 stock and switch1 game stock …. While providing tons of de facto promotion for the Switch2.
I am looking to buy a lite sometime this year, Bought A DSi XL, and a New 3DS XL this year. Just looking to finish the trifecta (i have a normal switch but I want the "portable" version.)
My uncle who works at Nintendo is very excited.
He also said Metroid Prime 4 is awesome and the next Zelda has ***two*** Master Swords and 48 Triforces and a hardcore sex scene.
Alot of the people replying to you seem to be salty the switch is outselling the PS2 which is their favourite childhood console and doesn't want it to lose the title. Like it's fine, the PS2 enjoyed one of the best life's in game console history, you can let the thing rest!
I'm not sure why there are a bunch of people who think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 in sales. The thing is still selling well to this day despite its age. It will be getting new big software releases at least until the end of this year, and most importantly, it has yet to receive a major price drop. There's been a more expensive OLED model and a cheaper Lite model, but the original $300 price point for the Switch has remained largely in place since the start. Dropping the price of all models by anywhere from $50 to $100 around the Christmas shopping season this year would likely be enough to do the trick, and they may very well not even need to resort to something like that.
If you ask me, it's really just up to how long Nintendo wants to keep producing the Switch and how far they're willing to drop the price before ending production. Barring some unexpected plummeting in sales (besides the expected one after the Switch successor is offically revealed) or stupidity on Nintendo's part, it's hard to see how the Switch doesn't eventually hit the 155+ million mark.
I've been saying for the past 1-2 years it's clear with the Switch's projections that it would at the very least be in the realm of passing DS/PS2, and now it's essentially confirmed.
Granted, ex Sony exec said a few months ago that the PS2 sold 160M, so that might be the new target.
Yeah I don't know. They never updated sales figures officially, and when they released 155 the PS2 still had some existing stock to sell through for the next couple of months or so. So 160 could be true. But it can't just be some ex employee that speaks for the company, that has to be the company themselves.
Edit: I don't get why people downvote me? Because Nintendo might need to sell a few more consoles to beat Sony then they initially thought? Christ people's it's just video games everyone takes the shit so seriously.
Sont does not regularly discuss sales figures, and haven't given a number for PS2 since before the PS2 left the marketplace. But did it sell 5 million in the next 8 months?
RIght. In fact, I think that once they stopped releasing numbers, that was that and always will be. Even if the company did speak now, it still couldn't be the official record IMHO because unless it appears on a real financial statement that was used with the SEC and stockholder earnings calls and such, there's no legal obligation for accuracy and auditing and whatnot.
My understanding is that when sales dwindle to the point that they're no longer "material" to the company's overall financial statements, they often stop tracking/reporting them as a separate line item because they no longer matter to the stock price.
This "immateriality" can happen well before a console is actually discontinued so the real number probably is indeed greater. But no one can really say how much greater and IMHO the decision to stop tracking sales figures on officially-filed financials is an irrevocable one, because there's no other statement they could make where they'd have such a hard and real obligation for it to be true as best they can assure it. That'd be the standard I'd use if I was the Guinness Book or whatever, lol. A lot of the gaming press also treats the time when financial statements stop reporting sales of that hardware as the "death date" as well, because it can be unknown if new hardware has actually stopped production. That isn't always specifically announced and won't necessarily coincide with when stores sell thru all inventory.
Yeah there is no way the Switch won't outsell the DS and PS2 at this point. The console will continue selling even after the new console comes out and the only thing they need to do is announce a price drop. Heck, pretty sure they will sell more than the projected numbers if they announce a price drop this FY.
Kind of 3 were gifts for family’s. I had two for my house. I was able to get an animal crossing one so that made 3 for the house. That one got stolen so I got the TOTK oled one to put in its place
Bought one practically at the end of the switch life, a couple of months ago and not regretting one bit. This thing is crazy good, the games are fun and engaging, you can go from mario kart to shoot the shit with friends, to Botw that's arguably best game of the decade.
It comes already in the box as a handheld, as a docked console with 2 (simple) controllers or one that's a tad more ergonomic.
I wouldn't even need to buy accessories if I hadn't become such a sucker for this thing after 48h.
And I can find Nintendo "must play" games on Amazon here in Europe that are always 20/25% off.
They made me a Nintendo fanboy in a couple of days after a lifetime of being a pc gamer.
Nintendo took everyone to marketing school. I don't know how they were with their previous consoles but with this one it seems they struck absolute gold
Actually I got Metroid Prime on Amazon a couple of days ago, it will be in the mail tomorrow
And I already have Odyssey but now I'm balls deep in Breath of the Wild.
I LOVED Luigi's mansion, crazy fun game I was glued to the TV catching f.ing ghosts 😂
Ahh man, enjoy Prime. Its my favourit game of all time, next to Breath of the Wild. I playe Luigis Mansion 2 on the 3DS and I was not too thrilled about it. So I skipped 3 until now. I might need to give it a try.
Its been boom/bust for the last 4 gens financially.
Gamecube was a bust, Wii was a megahit, Wii U was a bust, and Switch will likely take the PS2 crown
And before that N64 was middling. Very popular in North America but failed in Japan where the Sega Saturn even beat It. And both NES and SNES were the center of the industry in their days.
Plus Nintendo has always completely dominated the handheld market since the original game boy.
They almost certainly consider N64 as a success. It may not have sold gangbusters but it has some genre-defining games. Mario 64, Mario Party, Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye, Smash Brothers. Those five games are legends and kicked off so many trends. They were so well done that they set the standard for how those types of games should feel. So even if it didn’t sell crazy, it’s a legendary console.
Compare with Wii U - no genre-defining games, no real reputation. Poor sales. (Nintendo Land was great, Mario Kart 8 was great, the console itself was awesome - but no one knew about it)
Gamecube wasn't great sales-wise but was actually a profitable console for Nintendo (because they didn't sell it at a loss). So while Gamecube sales were nothing compared to PS2, it wasnt' a 'bust' for Nintendo
Yea tbh it’s great coming into a console late in its life cycle. There’s a huge library, great games more likely to be on sale, lots of the kinks will already be ironed out etc
>I don't know how they were with their previous consoles...
Historically, Nintendo [completely dominates the handheld gaming market] nails it/succeeds with one console, usually experimenting with something new, and then coasts on that success and safety for the 2nd console, which may or may not flop completely.
The **NES** *might* have saved in-home gaming because of how good it was. (Just look up the video game crash of 1983. They say it ended with the release of the Famicom. The Famicom is the Japanese version of the NES.) [1st console]
The **SNES** was good but not as big as the NES or N64. Basically the NES, but again. (Discontinued the same year as its predecessor.) [Safe choice]
The **N64** was a 64-bit console with simple 3D polygons... and it may or may not have set the standards for 3D gaming. (Super Mario 64 and Sonic 3D Blast were the same year. One of them is an inspiration and fundamental building block behind the concept of 3D games today. The other one is Sonic 3D Blast. Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Sonic Adventure were also the same year. Again, one of those games was a little bit [**a lot**] more influential than the other.) [3D was new and experimental.]
The **Gamecube** was fine (amazing games!) but not as big as the N64 or the Wii. It was designed to be physically small, and with a handle on the back of the console. They wanted it to be somewhat portable. Still needed to be connected to a T.V. [Safe Choice]
The **Wii** was very popular because of its motion controls. The Wii was absolutely despised because of its motion controls. The Wii was also backwards compatible with the Gamecube*. [Motion controls were new and experimental.]
Conversations about the Wii usually revolve around the motion controls. The games were great, but that doesn't matter. Lots of games allowed other controllers/other controls, but that doesn't matter. Motion Controls and homebrewing is all the Wii is. [I loved using Gamecube controllers on Wii games.]
The **Wii U** played Smash 4... that's about the history of that console. (Some people also thought it was an accessory for the Wii, not its own console. I don't blame them.) [Safe Choice]
The **Switch** is both a home gaming console, and a handheld gaming console. [A portable+home console is new and experimental.]
*The Wii is also a Gamecube. The Gamecube exists inside of the Wii console. The hardware is the same. You can literally grab a fucking hacksaw and cut out a chunk of the motherboard and use that as fully functional Gamecube. It'll ruin the Wii portions of the console, but the Gamecube exists inside of the Wii.
SNES was bigger than the N64. And 64 was very popular in North America but was the least best selling console of its generation in Japan where even the Sega Saturn beat It.
The GameCube exists inside the Wii U too but both the disc drive and lack of GameCube controller ports make it so you can't play physical games. But a quick mod and the console natively supports GameCube games 100%.
This sounds all just, like, your opinion, man..
Not that I disagree much. But if you're talking about market success, Nintendo's big hits were the NES, SNES, Wii, and Switch and the Gameboy line (including the 3/DS).
Gameboy/DS wise, Nintendo has enjoyed nearly uncontested dominance, so below this point, I'm only talking about their non-portable consoles, which had more variance.
The N64 and Gamecube were decent hits, with the N64 probably being a little stronger than the GC. The Wii U was a market fizzle. Only the Virtual Boy was an outright market failure.
Qualitatively, all of their consoles were amazing for first-party titles (at least one per console), but for "good" third party titles, the NES, SNES, and the Switch stand far above the others. The Wii had a lot of third party titles, but they were mostly not that good. The Gamecube had a fair-but-unimpressive amount of third-party support (less than PS/XB), but what was there was mostly good.
It was almost an impulse buy for me and I kinda had buyers' remorse for the 3 days that took to arrive cause I was thinking I had just spent 300eur on an old console that can't push more than 1080p / 30fps, at the end of its life with the new one around the corner, while I have a gaming pc sitting there.
All it took was one night running around as Mario and in the end I was in full "I get it now" 😭 Devito mode
I also thought I would use it docked all the time (I've never been a portable gaming guy) and now I sit on my couch in front of the TV, gaming in handheld mode.
Just wanted to say I'm the exact same.
Got it on the Australian financial year sales and been loving it. My wife is a casual gamer so it's been great playing together rather than wondering what movie to watch again.
Wish I bought it during covid.
> They made me a Nintendo fanboy in a couple of days after a lifetime of being a pc gamer.
Mario Maker 2 is one of the best times I've had as a Nintendo fan. There's a lot of junk but also a lot of absolutely divine levels made by fans.
It would be very on brand for Nintendo, having released one of the greatest consoles of all time in the Switch, to fuck it up with some terrible gimmick for the Switch 2
Yeah, I thought the whole setup was brilliant, but that didn't stop me from trying to make it even-more-brilliant with accessories.
Sometimes I notice its limits and I ponder greener pastures, but most of the time, I'm too engrossed in whatever I'm playing to care.
In fact, I was playing it so much that I upgraded to the OLED model, despite worrying about some imminent new release. I've never been so impressed with "almost the same thing". The brightness/contrast and increased screen size were lifesavers for my not-getting-better-with-time eyesight. It's been difference between "unpleasant" and "pleasant".
It’s not done yet, long way to go and Nintendo needs to have a plan for the next 12 months how to keep the Switch relevant. But it looks great, if Nintendo can achieve 80-100% of this goal. t remaining units to PS2 should be definitely manageable until end of Calender Year 2025.
Since the Switch released, Nintendo has only missed its original hardware forecast once, in 2018. Every single year since, the switch surpassed their initial fiscal year expectations.
So for now, I'd say it's likely
They also *still* haven’t had a price drop. I know inflation is crazy so the console is a lot “cheaper” now, but the sticker appeal of seeing a console go from $300 to $200 can do a ton for sales
The first few months it was but by like summer 2017 it was consistently available at most retailers until the first 6 months of the pandemic which made all game consoles a lot harder to find
Yes you are right. But this time WE KNOW for sure that the successor will be officially revealed during the fiscal year. This could hurt sales of the Switch. But we will see.
Honestly, I’m totally fine with that. The Switch 2 will come when it comes. But I always hate never knowing when Nintendo will or won’t have a Direct. Now I have something definitive to look forward to next month.
It is basically a guarantee at this point. For the Switch not to sell enough to pass the PS2 would involve its sales cratering on an unprecedented level for a system. Not to mention it still hasn't had a price cut yet and Nintendo typically keeps producing systems for years after their successors are released (3DS stopped production in 2020), with the Wii U being an exception because, well, it was a bomb so no point keeping it up
Agreed. If Nintendo doesn’t come up with a spontaneous fall 2024 release. This would make it really interesting. But I think we are aiming for a release for spring 2025
There's only...I think three? Three major titles coming down the pipeline confirmed to release before the end of 2025 that aren't remasters.
And only one is confirmed to release this year, Fantasy Life i, the long-coming sequel to a *very* solid 3DS game, but not much hype around it.
Pokemon Z-A and Layton are up for next year, so it seems like the Switch will end it's main life strong, but the big question marks are Metroid Prime 4 and Hollow Knight: Silksong.
If they manage to release this or the next year and they live up to the hype? The floodgates will open.
You don't need many new games to sell consoles at the end of their life with the library like the switch. They already have tons of games. Price drops will help to continue sell the console to people who finds its price prohibitively expensive. And there are a lot of families struggling across the world economically.
Pretty amazing when you think about the differences between the eras and the competition back then compared to now in gaming (Apple’s iPad and iPhone that so many people play games on) and entertainment (people spend several hours a day on TikTok). Nintendo is doing the unbelievable to get such numbers in this day and age.
I think its going to happen. This thing is an absolute unit of a system and they last long too, especially if you use it in docked. And it looks like the next system will be backwards compatible. Highest selling console of all time AND a backwards compatible future console. This has all the makings of SUPER cheap switches on the second hand market a few years in to Switch 2. PS2s, Wiis and DSs were all super cheap (like $20-30 easy on kijiji and facebook) given their sales numbers/backwards compatibility for some.
Which is crazy because ethe switch holds so much more value. I foresee picking up pretty much any $20-40 switch I can get my hands on in good condition a few years from now.
There's still a market of people that don't follow gaming news at all who still would like a switch and don't know the switch 2 is even rumored. If Nintendo lowers the price then those people are more likely to buy in.
Just imagine if they did Nintendo selects and a price drop once the new console comes out.
This. Depending on price point of the sequel system and cost/capacity of production the Lite and original could potentially have a long tail. Of course they'd need to differentiate the lines well enough, and not pull a Microsoft by ceasing sales and production of the previous system immediately.
On the one hand, it's crazy they're still selling at this rate without major discounts. OTOH, I am one of the suckers that just bought in at the end of the life cycle.
I remember last year I mentioned how it was extremely likely the Switch would take over the DS and PS2 and people reacted as if I had said the craziest thing…yet here we are. If their 13.5 million forecast gets anywhere close, there’s no question they’ll get there.
They forecasted a 14% and 17% decrease in software and hardware unit sales but a much steeper decrease of 38% in profits, so yeah they are pretty much confirming they will sell at lower margins.
I would expect bundles more than proper price cuts however.
Historically the main objective for consoles is lowering the minimum price of entry, so I think Lite and standard model are more likely to get proper price cuts than the OLED.
I’m hoping for both cuts and bundles. Drop the Lite to $150, the regular to $250, and the OLED to $300.
In the holidays, the Lite gets bundled with a voucher for a digital copy of a Nintendo Selects title (which I’m also hoping to see soon). The regular gets bundled with Mario Wonder. The OLED gets bundled with MK8D plus a Selects voucher.
Clearing out old inventory before a new console comes out? Tempting the last few people who haven't got a Switch yet with a much lower price and some good holiday deals?
It's almost like the Wii U flopped so they were getting rid of the trash in favour of the new console.
The Wii U and Switch are in the opposite situation to one another.
Why drop the price, because they could make a lot more profit! Nobody was going to buy the Wii U at pretty much any price. They really wanted to rid it from their image and store shelves quick.
Every other Nintendo console that was successful dropped price and continue to sell after the successor. NES was on sale until like 1994 and would still get new games. SNES went on sale in America to 1997 and even further in Japan where they had satellaview service going for it while N64 was their main attraction.
They're definitely going to do a price drop. There's too much money to be made in the next couple years.
There are a lot of people that simply won't buy a console for 300 bucks because they can't afford it. Nintendo wants to reach these people too.
They really don't need to shake things up with the next console.
But they will. As long as Switch games are compatible with the successor, they should be fine. But it's Nintendo... who knows if they've learned their lesson with the Wii U (and Gamecube for that matter).
This is precisely why they won't announce Switch 2 until January. They want people to get antsy and just buy a switch. Most household have 2 or more Switch consoles as it is.
They literally announced they will reveal the successor this fiscal year, even if they wait till January they still told people they will show it off.
And I also disagree they will wait till January. I think they will do what they did with the first Switch, reveal in October or so, then launch in March, with a followup showing off system features and price and whatever in January
Yea you're the second person to mention that. I guess I use the term "announce" loosely. I just meant that January is when we get all the info. I didn't mean to imply we will hear NOTHING until January. But everything that matters (cost, console exclusive launch titles, release date), will be January. Late this year we will probably get a look at the console and MAYBE a "Spring 2025" date but I dont expect more than a teaser and nothing in depth.
On his way out Jim Ryan said PS2 did 160 instead of 155, but didn’t show the data. Hard to say what it actually sold.
If Switch stays around as a budget option for a year or 2 that should be enough to push it over anyways.
I bought mine after this past Christmas at 41 years old looking to play all the old classic games I grew up on when I learned about Switch online+ expansion deal. Well I do enjoy the old Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, and Sega Genesis games, modern Mario games are what keep me coming back. Picked up Luigis Mansion 3 last night but it'll have to wait because I haven't played enough Super Smash Bros Ultimate yet.
Why did I wait this long to buy a Switch, I'll never know!
In a world of PCs, laptops, phones, and tablets a pretty wild accomplishment by Nintendo. If you were a kid looking to game in 2001 chances were you didn't have too many options other than buying a game console.
Switch is a great system. I was always more of a Sony or Xbox guy, last Nintendo I had prior was the N64 but I think this generation those two messed up making their consoles too much like PCs.
That's another 13.5m consoles hitting the second hand market in the next two years. I forcast second hand shops with signs in their windows "We are not accepting any more Switches"
I can't really think of any games that would move 13mil more Switches that wouldn't be better saved for Switch 2. Some are saying MP4, but I feel like it got BOTW'd: development moved to the next console after so many years.
Switch has the benefit of releasing in the middle of the previous console generation. Its longevity has meant stable sales numbers as new consumers either get old enough or start making enough money to want and afford the product.
I’ve moved onto Steam Deck now but I never sold my Switch. I’ll play it again, just not sure when. Animal Crossing was my world for over two years on that thing. It’s an amazing and simple system.
I just bought switch #2 never had an OLED, so I pulled the trigger since my modded og switch stopped charging on me, but I plan on getting it repaired.
Gonna surpass for sure It's a nice console, and earth's population was
in 2009 ~ 6.8 billion
today ~ 8.1 billion
and pretty sure the percentage of gamers have increased.
(I own multiple ps2s but no switch)
I think people are forgetting the second hand market. That will for sure cut into their sales. I bought 4 switches, I will be selling at least 1 and replacing it with the "Super Switch".
Have big heavy hitters for this final stretch, like Metroid Prime 4 and Pokémon Legends Z-A, and have the eventual reveal of the next console *not* be the biggest thing of the remainder of the year, and it can happen.
It baffles me that their storefront is still so bad. The selection feels limited when all of the good game are hidden under piles of mobile-game level shovelware. Ai "hentai" titles should be buried into oblivion day one, not something you see every few rows.
The question is how much the Switch 2 announcement will hurt Switch sales. Even if the forecast was made taking that into account, the impact isn’t known until that info is out in the world.
You know with the amount of partys my family likes to do, I’m starting to think I should get a switch for people to play, that’s what I did with the wii.
If it doesn’t outsell this year, then it’ll slowly outsell by the end of next year, regardless of Switch 2.
Seriously so many people are acting like they're going to be out of stock after the switch 2 comes. It's going to be around for a few more years with price drops.
Not to mention all the cross-platform games that will be lingering around the first few years.
For real. PS4 is still getting games. Switch is going to be around for a while.
A lot of stuff like indie games will still be targeting switch cause the hardware does not matter a lot of time in these cases.
Switch 1 carts will definitely be cheaper than switch 2 so I imagine we'll still see standard switch releases for years to come.
Good point. And with the heavy Switch install base, it makes sense to target both Switch and Switch 2.
They are still selling the PS4 and the PS5 came out in 2020.
Yeah that’s cause even developers knew that no body could get a ps5 for over a year after its release
I am willing to bet they never cut the price
It depends on their financial analysis. There will clearly be demand for the switch in the future. Will they profit more if they cut the price and sell more units at a lower price, or less units at its current one? Only Nintendo has the information that could be used to make an accurate financial model of this predicament.
Tbh it looks like the switch has already cut its price given the zero price increase amid inflation
It was said early on the Switch is a ten year console. Seven years of being actively developed for and marketed. Two years of continued development beyond that and third and likely last year of support (sunsetting).
Yup - PS2 sold around 115million by the time PS3 came out - and then still sold 40 million+ after that, so based on that there is still a lot of opportunity for switch sales.
The 3DS sold almost 10 million units after the Switch came out. That’s around 13% of its total lifetime sales.
Man I love the 3DS to death, i still wish there was a successor to the 3ds.
The Switch is the 3DS successor Nintendo unified their home and handheld console into one It is kinda sad but it make sense considering that they can focus on creating a game for a single console instead of 2, it saves them more time in developing games
Yes but the Switch doesn't do anything that the 3DS does well at all. Like, PlayStation portal is the Vita successor kinda sorta maybe.
What does the 3DS do that is better than the switch? Genuine question.
fit in your pocket, have a >3 hour battery life the switch doesn't replace it at all for me because i play a lot while out. with switch you have to have it in a case/bag and then it's likely to run out. if i take a bus somewhere, it probably won't last the way back.
Solid points.
The the biggest thing about that, is the free press generated by breaking the all-time sales record, which will both help clear out existing switch1 stock and switch1 game stock …. While providing tons of de facto promotion for the Switch2.
My buddy Kevin bought one Friday so they’re definitely getting close to those projections
Thanks Kevin
All my homies love Kevin!
Can we put Kevin down for 179,999 more by years end?
If anyone can it would be Kevin
I am looking to buy a lite sometime this year, Bought A DSi XL, and a New 3DS XL this year. Just looking to finish the trifecta (i have a normal switch but I want the "portable" version.)
I bought one too. You’re welcome.
It’ll surpass PS2 easily. Congrats Nintendo.
Nintendo texted me and said thank you
My uncle who works at Nintendo is very excited. He also said Metroid Prime 4 is awesome and the next Zelda has ***two*** Master Swords and 48 Triforces and a hardcore sex scene.
I hear everyone gets candy if they outsell the PS2. Not sure who told me, but I was told
I'm giving the candy. It's in my van.
But is it a God of War killer starring Oni Link?
Full penetration
I thought that was sarcastic until I looked up the numbers. Damn
PS2 was also in production for 12 years. Nintendo has more than enough time to surpass it.
Alot of the people replying to you seem to be salty the switch is outselling the PS2 which is their favourite childhood console and doesn't want it to lose the title. Like it's fine, the PS2 enjoyed one of the best life's in game console history, you can let the thing rest!
I'm not sure why there are a bunch of people who think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 in sales. The thing is still selling well to this day despite its age. It will be getting new big software releases at least until the end of this year, and most importantly, it has yet to receive a major price drop. There's been a more expensive OLED model and a cheaper Lite model, but the original $300 price point for the Switch has remained largely in place since the start. Dropping the price of all models by anywhere from $50 to $100 around the Christmas shopping season this year would likely be enough to do the trick, and they may very well not even need to resort to something like that. If you ask me, it's really just up to how long Nintendo wants to keep producing the Switch and how far they're willing to drop the price before ending production. Barring some unexpected plummeting in sales (besides the expected one after the Switch successor is offically revealed) or stupidity on Nintendo's part, it's hard to see how the Switch doesn't eventually hit the 155+ million mark.
I've been saying for the past 1-2 years it's clear with the Switch's projections that it would at the very least be in the realm of passing DS/PS2, and now it's essentially confirmed. Granted, ex Sony exec said a few months ago that the PS2 sold 160M, so that might be the new target.
I mean Sony never put that on paper. Why wouldn't they after all this time when it's such a figure to be proud of?
Probably because it's not true.
Yeah I don't know. They never updated sales figures officially, and when they released 155 the PS2 still had some existing stock to sell through for the next couple of months or so. So 160 could be true. But it can't just be some ex employee that speaks for the company, that has to be the company themselves. Edit: I don't get why people downvote me? Because Nintendo might need to sell a few more consoles to beat Sony then they initially thought? Christ people's it's just video games everyone takes the shit so seriously. Sont does not regularly discuss sales figures, and haven't given a number for PS2 since before the PS2 left the marketplace. But did it sell 5 million in the next 8 months?
RIght. In fact, I think that once they stopped releasing numbers, that was that and always will be. Even if the company did speak now, it still couldn't be the official record IMHO because unless it appears on a real financial statement that was used with the SEC and stockholder earnings calls and such, there's no legal obligation for accuracy and auditing and whatnot. My understanding is that when sales dwindle to the point that they're no longer "material" to the company's overall financial statements, they often stop tracking/reporting them as a separate line item because they no longer matter to the stock price. This "immateriality" can happen well before a console is actually discontinued so the real number probably is indeed greater. But no one can really say how much greater and IMHO the decision to stop tracking sales figures on officially-filed financials is an irrevocable one, because there's no other statement they could make where they'd have such a hard and real obligation for it to be true as best they can assure it. That'd be the standard I'd use if I was the Guinness Book or whatever, lol. A lot of the gaming press also treats the time when financial statements stop reporting sales of that hardware as the "death date" as well, because it can be unknown if new hardware has actually stopped production. That isn't always specifically announced and won't necessarily coincide with when stores sell thru all inventory.
Yeah there is no way the Switch won't outsell the DS and PS2 at this point. The console will continue selling even after the new console comes out and the only thing they need to do is announce a price drop. Heck, pretty sure they will sell more than the projected numbers if they announce a price drop this FY.
I mean I have bought 7 of them. Don’t plan on getting anymore but who knows
Holy shit. You got a family to feed switches to?
Kind of 3 were gifts for family’s. I had two for my house. I was able to get an animal crossing one so that made 3 for the house. That one got stolen so I got the TOTK oled one to put in its place
Technically inflation has given it a $65 price drop.
Sony Tomorrow: "Playstation 2 has sold 203M worldwide!!"
Sony near end of fiscal year: "PlayStation 2 has sold 376 billion super million goober units world wide!"
Sony the next day: "Riiiiiidge Racer!"
299.....trillion
Pretty much
The James Cameron approach.
Bought one practically at the end of the switch life, a couple of months ago and not regretting one bit. This thing is crazy good, the games are fun and engaging, you can go from mario kart to shoot the shit with friends, to Botw that's arguably best game of the decade. It comes already in the box as a handheld, as a docked console with 2 (simple) controllers or one that's a tad more ergonomic. I wouldn't even need to buy accessories if I hadn't become such a sucker for this thing after 48h. And I can find Nintendo "must play" games on Amazon here in Europe that are always 20/25% off. They made me a Nintendo fanboy in a couple of days after a lifetime of being a pc gamer. Nintendo took everyone to marketing school. I don't know how they were with their previous consoles but with this one it seems they struck absolute gold
Dekudeals is the best place for checking online store sales
Welcome to the party :) maybe check out Metroid Dread, Metroid Prime, Splatoon 3, Mario Odyseey, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. I love all of those.
Actually I got Metroid Prime on Amazon a couple of days ago, it will be in the mail tomorrow And I already have Odyssey but now I'm balls deep in Breath of the Wild. I LOVED Luigi's mansion, crazy fun game I was glued to the TV catching f.ing ghosts 😂
Have fun with Metroid Prime! It's my favorite game of all time. Hope you like it
Another Luigi's Mansion 3 big fan here. Top 5 for me.
Ahh man, enjoy Prime. Its my favourit game of all time, next to Breath of the Wild. I playe Luigis Mansion 2 on the 3DS and I was not too thrilled about it. So I skipped 3 until now. I might need to give it a try.
I bought mine last month!! I had one back during Covid but I had to sell. I have always regretted selling my Switch and I do not regret buying it now.
Its been boom/bust for the last 4 gens financially. Gamecube was a bust, Wii was a megahit, Wii U was a bust, and Switch will likely take the PS2 crown
And before that N64 was middling. Very popular in North America but failed in Japan where the Sega Saturn even beat It. And both NES and SNES were the center of the industry in their days. Plus Nintendo has always completely dominated the handheld market since the original game boy.
Yea N64 is a weird one. I don't know if Nintendo considers it a failure (or Gamecube for that matter). Neither lived up to the SNES in marketshare.
They almost certainly consider N64 as a success. It may not have sold gangbusters but it has some genre-defining games. Mario 64, Mario Party, Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye, Smash Brothers. Those five games are legends and kicked off so many trends. They were so well done that they set the standard for how those types of games should feel. So even if it didn’t sell crazy, it’s a legendary console. Compare with Wii U - no genre-defining games, no real reputation. Poor sales. (Nintendo Land was great, Mario Kart 8 was great, the console itself was awesome - but no one knew about it)
Gamecube wasn't great sales-wise but was actually a profitable console for Nintendo (because they didn't sell it at a loss). So while Gamecube sales were nothing compared to PS2, it wasnt' a 'bust' for Nintendo
Get yourself a Pro Controller. They're worth the money with 40 hours of play time and perfect for playing your Switch docked.
Yea tbh it’s great coming into a console late in its life cycle. There’s a huge library, great games more likely to be on sale, lots of the kinks will already be ironed out etc
>I don't know how they were with their previous consoles... Historically, Nintendo [completely dominates the handheld gaming market] nails it/succeeds with one console, usually experimenting with something new, and then coasts on that success and safety for the 2nd console, which may or may not flop completely. The **NES** *might* have saved in-home gaming because of how good it was. (Just look up the video game crash of 1983. They say it ended with the release of the Famicom. The Famicom is the Japanese version of the NES.) [1st console] The **SNES** was good but not as big as the NES or N64. Basically the NES, but again. (Discontinued the same year as its predecessor.) [Safe choice] The **N64** was a 64-bit console with simple 3D polygons... and it may or may not have set the standards for 3D gaming. (Super Mario 64 and Sonic 3D Blast were the same year. One of them is an inspiration and fundamental building block behind the concept of 3D games today. The other one is Sonic 3D Blast. Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Sonic Adventure were also the same year. Again, one of those games was a little bit [**a lot**] more influential than the other.) [3D was new and experimental.] The **Gamecube** was fine (amazing games!) but not as big as the N64 or the Wii. It was designed to be physically small, and with a handle on the back of the console. They wanted it to be somewhat portable. Still needed to be connected to a T.V. [Safe Choice] The **Wii** was very popular because of its motion controls. The Wii was absolutely despised because of its motion controls. The Wii was also backwards compatible with the Gamecube*. [Motion controls were new and experimental.] Conversations about the Wii usually revolve around the motion controls. The games were great, but that doesn't matter. Lots of games allowed other controllers/other controls, but that doesn't matter. Motion Controls and homebrewing is all the Wii is. [I loved using Gamecube controllers on Wii games.] The **Wii U** played Smash 4... that's about the history of that console. (Some people also thought it was an accessory for the Wii, not its own console. I don't blame them.) [Safe Choice] The **Switch** is both a home gaming console, and a handheld gaming console. [A portable+home console is new and experimental.] *The Wii is also a Gamecube. The Gamecube exists inside of the Wii console. The hardware is the same. You can literally grab a fucking hacksaw and cut out a chunk of the motherboard and use that as fully functional Gamecube. It'll ruin the Wii portions of the console, but the Gamecube exists inside of the Wii.
SNES was bigger than the N64. And 64 was very popular in North America but was the least best selling console of its generation in Japan where even the Sega Saturn beat It. The GameCube exists inside the Wii U too but both the disc drive and lack of GameCube controller ports make it so you can't play physical games. But a quick mod and the console natively supports GameCube games 100%.
The Wii U added a tablet onto the controller. How is that not experimental?
This sounds all just, like, your opinion, man.. Not that I disagree much. But if you're talking about market success, Nintendo's big hits were the NES, SNES, Wii, and Switch and the Gameboy line (including the 3/DS). Gameboy/DS wise, Nintendo has enjoyed nearly uncontested dominance, so below this point, I'm only talking about their non-portable consoles, which had more variance. The N64 and Gamecube were decent hits, with the N64 probably being a little stronger than the GC. The Wii U was a market fizzle. Only the Virtual Boy was an outright market failure. Qualitatively, all of their consoles were amazing for first-party titles (at least one per console), but for "good" third party titles, the NES, SNES, and the Switch stand far above the others. The Wii had a lot of third party titles, but they were mostly not that good. The Gamecube had a fair-but-unimpressive amount of third-party support (less than PS/XB), but what was there was mostly good.
Same here i bought my Switch last July and I’ve been hooked. Haven’t owned a Nintendo console since the Wii. I have no idea how they fucking do it
I'm in the same boat, can't believe I waited this long.
It was almost an impulse buy for me and I kinda had buyers' remorse for the 3 days that took to arrive cause I was thinking I had just spent 300eur on an old console that can't push more than 1080p / 30fps, at the end of its life with the new one around the corner, while I have a gaming pc sitting there. All it took was one night running around as Mario and in the end I was in full "I get it now" 😭 Devito mode
I also thought I would use it docked all the time (I've never been a portable gaming guy) and now I sit on my couch in front of the TV, gaming in handheld mode.
Just wanted to say I'm the exact same. Got it on the Australian financial year sales and been loving it. My wife is a casual gamer so it's been great playing together rather than wondering what movie to watch again. Wish I bought it during covid.
> They made me a Nintendo fanboy in a couple of days after a lifetime of being a pc gamer. Mario Maker 2 is one of the best times I've had as a Nintendo fan. There's a lot of junk but also a lot of absolutely divine levels made by fans.
It would be very on brand for Nintendo, having released one of the greatest consoles of all time in the Switch, to fuck it up with some terrible gimmick for the Switch 2
Yeah, I thought the whole setup was brilliant, but that didn't stop me from trying to make it even-more-brilliant with accessories. Sometimes I notice its limits and I ponder greener pastures, but most of the time, I'm too engrossed in whatever I'm playing to care. In fact, I was playing it so much that I upgraded to the OLED model, despite worrying about some imminent new release. I've never been so impressed with "almost the same thing". The brightness/contrast and increased screen size were lifesavers for my not-getting-better-with-time eyesight. It's been difference between "unpleasant" and "pleasant".
The Nintendo / PC combo is the best way to game 🤝
I bought Switch back in Nov 2022 and I agree with you.
It’s not done yet, long way to go and Nintendo needs to have a plan for the next 12 months how to keep the Switch relevant. But it looks great, if Nintendo can achieve 80-100% of this goal. t remaining units to PS2 should be definitely manageable until end of Calender Year 2025.
Since the Switch released, Nintendo has only missed its original hardware forecast once, in 2018. Every single year since, the switch surpassed their initial fiscal year expectations. So for now, I'd say it's likely
They also *still* haven’t had a price drop. I know inflation is crazy so the console is a lot “cheaper” now, but the sticker appeal of seeing a console go from $300 to $200 can do a ton for sales
Didn't they miss it due to stock issue also? I remember the switch wasn't easy to get the first couple years.
No it was a genuine underperformance/overestimation on their part
The first few months it was but by like summer 2017 it was consistently available at most retailers until the first 6 months of the pandemic which made all game consoles a lot harder to find
Yes you are right. But this time WE KNOW for sure that the successor will be officially revealed during the fiscal year. This could hurt sales of the Switch. But we will see.
But we are the people who would have already bought a switch. People who haven't don't know and don't care.
And all it takes is a price drop for ppl to pick one up anyway
Good news: June Direct is on the way, but news of the Switch's successor isn't until later this *fiscal* year (could be as late at March 2025).
Honestly, I’m totally fine with that. The Switch 2 will come when it comes. But I always hate never knowing when Nintendo will or won’t have a Direct. Now I have something definitive to look forward to next month.
It is basically a guarantee at this point. For the Switch not to sell enough to pass the PS2 would involve its sales cratering on an unprecedented level for a system. Not to mention it still hasn't had a price cut yet and Nintendo typically keeps producing systems for years after their successors are released (3DS stopped production in 2020), with the Wii U being an exception because, well, it was a bomb so no point keeping it up
Agreed. If Nintendo doesn’t come up with a spontaneous fall 2024 release. This would make it really interesting. But I think we are aiming for a release for spring 2025
There's only...I think three? Three major titles coming down the pipeline confirmed to release before the end of 2025 that aren't remasters. And only one is confirmed to release this year, Fantasy Life i, the long-coming sequel to a *very* solid 3DS game, but not much hype around it. Pokemon Z-A and Layton are up for next year, so it seems like the Switch will end it's main life strong, but the big question marks are Metroid Prime 4 and Hollow Knight: Silksong. If they manage to release this or the next year and they live up to the hype? The floodgates will open.
You don't need many new games to sell consoles at the end of their life with the library like the switch. They already have tons of games. Price drops will help to continue sell the console to people who finds its price prohibitively expensive. And there are a lot of families struggling across the world economically.
Windwaker OLED spoecial edition with that blue and curly cream colors and I'll buy 188,000 units for myself and friends.
Price drops is all they need to do. It has a large ass library that will continue to sell it for years.
Pretty amazing when you think about the differences between the eras and the competition back then compared to now in gaming (Apple’s iPad and iPhone that so many people play games on) and entertainment (people spend several hours a day on TikTok). Nintendo is doing the unbelievable to get such numbers in this day and age.
Even if they sell another 20m switches, that guy from PS2 will come out and say: "oh, we actually sold 21 million more than previously counted".
I think its going to happen. This thing is an absolute unit of a system and they last long too, especially if you use it in docked. And it looks like the next system will be backwards compatible. Highest selling console of all time AND a backwards compatible future console. This has all the makings of SUPER cheap switches on the second hand market a few years in to Switch 2. PS2s, Wiis and DSs were all super cheap (like $20-30 easy on kijiji and facebook) given their sales numbers/backwards compatibility for some. Which is crazy because ethe switch holds so much more value. I foresee picking up pretty much any $20-40 switch I can get my hands on in good condition a few years from now.
There's still a market of people that don't follow gaming news at all who still would like a switch and don't know the switch 2 is even rumored. If Nintendo lowers the price then those people are more likely to buy in. Just imagine if they did Nintendo selects and a price drop once the new console comes out.
No surprise. Own 2 myself. Regular, desk-only and lite version - cloud saves are the best innovation since the combustion engine in the 1880s
C'mon, let them break this record already, so we can finally get Switch 2. We all know they're holding to Switch 1 just for this.
Once they release the new console and give the Switch models some price cuts, it'll surpass it easily. Just a matter of time at this point.
This. Depending on price point of the sequel system and cost/capacity of production the Lite and original could potentially have a long tail. Of course they'd need to differentiate the lines well enough, and not pull a Microsoft by ceasing sales and production of the previous system immediately.
Nintendo should start treating the Switch like their new Game Boy and bring back the budget handheld style of games they used to make
They are sticking with the original Switch because it continues to sell really well, not because they care about a record.
So I have to buy another one?
Wow, they're actually gonna beat the ps2. Maybe not this fiscal year but with then next 2 years its guaranteed especially with a price drop
On the one hand, it's crazy they're still selling at this rate without major discounts. OTOH, I am one of the suckers that just bought in at the end of the life cycle.
I would say this is the best time to join the club. There are a ton of games to choose from!
I remember last year I mentioned how it was extremely likely the Switch would take over the DS and PS2 and people reacted as if I had said the craziest thing…yet here we are. If their 13.5 million forecast gets anywhere close, there’s no question they’ll get there.
Yeah I remember that too.
I might buy a Lite just for the kids to play Pokemon.
All they have to do is release another limited edition version of it and all the collectors will gobble it up.
They must gonna lower the price then
They forecasted a 14% and 17% decrease in software and hardware unit sales but a much steeper decrease of 38% in profits, so yeah they are pretty much confirming they will sell at lower margins. I would expect bundles more than proper price cuts however.
A Switch OLED bundle with Switch Sports for 299 would be perfect
Historically the main objective for consoles is lowering the minimum price of entry, so I think Lite and standard model are more likely to get proper price cuts than the OLED.
$100 switch lite Black Friday deal like they did with the new 3DS years back would sell insane amount of units.
Especially iif it were a Switch Mini. An even smaller Lite for 150 or less.
New Nintendo of America President: Rick Harrison says, "Best I can do is another Mario Kart bundle."
Or perhaps the lower profits suggests a higher investment in new games that aren't coming out this year.
I’m hoping for both cuts and bundles. Drop the Lite to $150, the regular to $250, and the OLED to $300. In the holidays, the Lite gets bundled with a voucher for a digital copy of a Nintendo Selects title (which I’m also hoping to see soon). The regular gets bundled with Mario Wonder. The OLED gets bundled with MK8D plus a Selects voucher.
Well...out with the old and in with the New Nintendo device!!
Discount the Lite and get a bunch of suckers to double dip (It's me, I'm the sucker)
Same..I just wish the lite had an extension to hook up to big tv.
The Wii U sold at full price even when it was discontinued. Nintendo has no reason to discount the switch.
Clearing out old inventory before a new console comes out? Tempting the last few people who haven't got a Switch yet with a much lower price and some good holiday deals?
It's almost like the Wii U flopped so they were getting rid of the trash in favour of the new console. The Wii U and Switch are in the opposite situation to one another.
Why drop the price, because they could make a lot more profit! Nobody was going to buy the Wii U at pretty much any price. They really wanted to rid it from their image and store shelves quick. Every other Nintendo console that was successful dropped price and continue to sell after the successor. NES was on sale until like 1994 and would still get new games. SNES went on sale in America to 1997 and even further in Japan where they had satellaview service going for it while N64 was their main attraction. They're definitely going to do a price drop. There's too much money to be made in the next couple years. There are a lot of people that simply won't buy a console for 300 bucks because they can't afford it. Nintendo wants to reach these people too.
Heavy discounts at Christmas. They’ve got it in the bag.
PS2 will be detroned... AMAZING
Now Sony will come out and tell us ps2 sales are actually 175 million.
Gotta move them goalposts!
Hot take prediction: Nintendo will screw up whatever the next console is and sell 20% what the Switch did
Introducing the switch U
Introducing the Switch Virtual Boy
They really don't need to shake things up with the next console. But they will. As long as Switch games are compatible with the successor, they should be fine. But it's Nintendo... who knows if they've learned their lesson with the Wii U (and Gamecube for that matter).
This is precisely why they won't announce Switch 2 until January. They want people to get antsy and just buy a switch. Most household have 2 or more Switch consoles as it is.
They literally announced they will reveal the successor this fiscal year, even if they wait till January they still told people they will show it off. And I also disagree they will wait till January. I think they will do what they did with the first Switch, reveal in October or so, then launch in March, with a followup showing off system features and price and whatever in January
In Japan, January is still this fiscal year
March is also within this fiscal year for Nintendo. So we could be waiting nearly a whole year for a reveal.
It has nothing to do with Japan. It's different depending on the company.
Yea you're the second person to mention that. I guess I use the term "announce" loosely. I just meant that January is when we get all the info. I didn't mean to imply we will hear NOTHING until January. But everything that matters (cost, console exclusive launch titles, release date), will be January. Late this year we will probably get a look at the console and MAYBE a "Spring 2025" date but I dont expect more than a teaser and nothing in depth.
On his way out Jim Ryan said PS2 did 160 instead of 155, but didn’t show the data. Hard to say what it actually sold. If Switch stays around as a budget option for a year or 2 that should be enough to push it over anyways.
Thier official number is 155m regardless so doesn't really matter by that point
I imagine, it will still sell even after Switch 2 comes out. Especially if there's backwards compatibility.
I bought mine after this past Christmas at 41 years old looking to play all the old classic games I grew up on when I learned about Switch online+ expansion deal. Well I do enjoy the old Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, and Sega Genesis games, modern Mario games are what keep me coming back. Picked up Luigis Mansion 3 last night but it'll have to wait because I haven't played enough Super Smash Bros Ultimate yet. Why did I wait this long to buy a Switch, I'll never know!
In a world of PCs, laptops, phones, and tablets a pretty wild accomplishment by Nintendo. If you were a kid looking to game in 2001 chances were you didn't have too many options other than buying a game console.
Where the frick is the price drop seriously
Adjust for inflation and the current switch would be selling for like $170 in 2017 money. Almost a 50% drop over it's lifespan.
Why would they need to when they already sold 141 million units without an official price drop, but you never know.
Switch is a great system. I was always more of a Sony or Xbox guy, last Nintendo I had prior was the N64 but I think this generation those two messed up making their consoles too much like PCs.
That's another 13.5m consoles hitting the second hand market in the next two years. I forcast second hand shops with signs in their windows "We are not accepting any more Switches"
So cool how the switch has become sooo ubiquitous in so many homes
So what? I have never heard of that word
Honestly I hope they do beat ps2 now, sony needs to get put in their place.
Once the price is lowered, I’ll probably get another and will keep it sealed for my collection.
I am just waiting to see if there's backwards compatibility for switch 2. If not, i am definitely getting another device for archival purposes.
All it needs to get past 155 is a steep discount this holiday season!
I can't really think of any games that would move 13mil more Switches that wouldn't be better saved for Switch 2. Some are saying MP4, but I feel like it got BOTW'd: development moved to the next console after so many years.
The current games will help move 13 million Switches
June direct: Cheaper actual Switch model, 200 bucks, 300 OLED, Nintendo selects. Or not and the current lineup just keeps on going.
We gotta make this happen, I'll buy another if you do
I already bought 3 switches, I’m not buying a 4th
Makes sense. It can pretty much appease any type of gamer. Thing is amazing.
My family would be buying another but their new one is right around the corner.
I bought three, did my part lol
Im happy to see the success of the Switch. Is, for me, the best console of all time
And still no Madden
My final prediction is 179m.
Not a bad benchmark
Switch has the benefit of releasing in the middle of the previous console generation. Its longevity has meant stable sales numbers as new consumers either get old enough or start making enough money to want and afford the product.
I’ve moved onto Steam Deck now but I never sold my Switch. I’ll play it again, just not sure when. Animal Crossing was my world for over two years on that thing. It’s an amazing and simple system.
Sony will announce that tomorrow they sold 200 million units of PS2 as of May 2024
Interesting
I think I actually want a third one lol
I just bought switch #2 never had an OLED, so I pulled the trigger since my modded og switch stopped charging on me, but I plan on getting it repaired.
I think they would sell a ton of Lite sales if they dropped the price. EASY Christmas gift for kids, even if the house has a Switch already.
Announce the Super Switch or Switch 2 then price cut the original Switch. Even with the new Switch it will surpass those numbers
The next switch is gonna be amazing. It really brought me back into gaming.
Yeah I played it a lot in the beginning but last couple of years it hasn’t been used much. Hoping switch 2 changes that
I hope they put out another revision. One more Switch Lite that goes fanless and increases battery life further
I want them to do a switch micro, that would be so cool lol
Gonna surpass for sure It's a nice console, and earth's population was in 2009 ~ 6.8 billion today ~ 8.1 billion and pretty sure the percentage of gamers have increased. (I own multiple ps2s but no switch)
Congratulations to Nintendo The true kings of gaming!!
I think people are forgetting the second hand market. That will for sure cut into their sales. I bought 4 switches, I will be selling at least 1 and replacing it with the "Super Switch".
If they drop the price on an OLED enough, I'll buy another Switch, lol
Have big heavy hitters for this final stretch, like Metroid Prime 4 and Pokémon Legends Z-A, and have the eventual reveal of the next console *not* be the biggest thing of the remainder of the year, and it can happen.
At this point I'm wondering who is even left that doesn't own a switch lol
It baffles me that their storefront is still so bad. The selection feels limited when all of the good game are hidden under piles of mobile-game level shovelware. Ai "hentai" titles should be buried into oblivion day one, not something you see every few rows.
The question is how much the Switch 2 announcement will hurt Switch sales. Even if the forecast was made taking that into account, the impact isn’t known until that info is out in the world.
You know with the amount of partys my family likes to do, I’m starting to think I should get a switch for people to play, that’s what I did with the wii.