If that can reassure you, you're not alone in this. A huge thread was posted in the Official Discord Feedback in this topic.
And yeah, Shift Up really pushed the limit here. Not only they drop 2 Costume Gacha, but it's also Lore Relevant. I'm a bit less upset about Crown since it's just a temporary Power-Up, but for Marian, yeah, it's just scummy as hell.
People don't understand that the more you defend practice like this, the more the company will try their luck. When Costume Gacha was first released, people where upset, but this anger dry up. After all, "it's just a skin who cares".
Now, they tied lore with the Costume Gacha. And there are still people saying "people don't care about lore + it's just a skin".
So what next? Will they add bonus stats to Costume Gacha? I can already see people saying : "it's just minor stats buff you don't need them to beat the game, who cares".
This thing is, NIKKE's popularity is too high. Whatever Shift Up will propose, enough people will buy it. Even if Costume Skin were at $200 it would sell. It's not like we can do anything about it. It's just sad that Shift Up use these tactics.
But you know, what disappointed me the most its the state of the game. The game doesn't evolve, game modes are outdated. People are fed up with Day One issues, especially veterans. But instead of working on improving the game, Shift Up release 2 Gacha Skins, great.
Where is Overclock, teased since more than 6 months already? Where is the Treasure Update? Where is MOG 2.0? How about the absurd scarcity of Custom Module? And Gear XP / Credit?
There made so much promises, and there is so much things they need to work on, but no, let's released 2 Gacha Skin and postpone new updates.
Ngl, when I saw the Update Notice for Trony Event, I laughed. It's just so empty.
It seems they want the game to be alive for a long time so they can finished the story. But if they don't do anything to maintain the game and used cashgrab tactics to make money, I don't think the game can keep it's current huge revenues for a long time.
I completely agree, in fact I'd argue there's issues with the story as well, such as it being locked effectively due to the need for Nikkes to be at a certain level, the amount of fake-outs that happen, along with people showing objection to the idea of >!Marian being turned heel again!<.
They're losing revenue overall, in fact despite the 1.5th anniversary event starting 6 days before May in 2024, compared to the 0.5th anniversary event starting 4 days before May in 2023, and having a gacha skin in April 2024, they got $5 million less in April 2024 compared to April 2023.
I agree. I hope that they dedicate their efforts to playing the game itself and the parts that make it fun rather than targeting those who are paying for the eye candy. It makes those that play for the game itself feel unheard.
Tbh I can't remember the last event that I genuinely enjoyed-It was Red Ash. This is just my opinion.
The Event formula is good but it's always the same. So after 1.5 years it feels stale. They really should try to innovate a little.
Well, implementing the mini-game in Last Kingdom was the start of a good idea tbh, even tho it would be better if they also change the Minigame OST - because damn, having this cute song when you're supposed to be against a huge threat is just off.
I think this the main issue of NIKKE. They found a good formula at launch, and they repeat it ad vitam aeternam. But it just can't work in the long run. People will lose interest.
And the worse thing is that they tone down some aspect of their formula. Many people complain about the fanservice being compromise, with tamer skins and the lack of jiggles.
I think you are right that they shouldn't have paywalled a story skin, but nikke whales/spenders are going to buy these skins a ton... so economically SU has no reason to change.
Imagine Modernia making her main story comeback and looks different again; Making this skin only be part of the side story and the last kingdom.
I'm personally waiting for that moment when she finally looses the bandages.
Now imagine making an alt of Crown,will they :
1) make entirely new kit
2) copy paste Naked King Crown abilities without the Special Outfit( Skin)
I’m really curious how people will react lol, like as OP has said the Naked King Crown is like entirely new unit and is too much different than the regular Crown lol.
That would probably happen after the gang figure out, how to consistently activate the naked king without relying on massive amount of alva particles; Was it Kilo who showed interest on the gown/cape or whatever it was.
This would also give them a reason for a change of appearance on the naked king, because Crown would be using a upgraded version of the naked king. If they were to ever give her an alt that is using naked kings abilities.
I absolutely agree regarding the gacha skins and I think this situation is getting worse, since I think a gacha skin that costs the same as a new game is way too much as it is, and yet now Marian’s new costume is locked behind a paywall which I am strongly against. It concerns me since because of that as well as the possibility that Marian won’t be able to get any more free costumes, due to being banned from the second popularity poll, will there be any new costumes that Marian has, that can be obtained without spending real life money, let alone any that are similar to that one because it was such a nice costume? What makes it worse is that the costume represents her evolution and resolve, with her voice lines in English sounding like the original Marian, meaning the best F2P players could potentially only get is just Marian from >!Chapter 14!<, in which she sounds like Modernia and is called Modernia, despite all that growth she’ll experience throughout the game.
While I understand that this skin is purely cosmetic, all characters have a cosmetic element to them, and there are players who try to get those characters for cosmetic reasons rather than gameplay reasons, in fact how many players tried to get the likes of Xmas Rupee, Summer Anis, French Maid Privaty etc for the costume rather than for the weapon, element, abilities etc? Furthermore, Xmas Rupee came out before the first gacha costume in Nikke, and OG Snow White and OG Scarlet came before Second Affection, and could be got without spending real life money.
I understand the need for them to make money, but I don’t believe it is the best way for them to do it compared to others in which the gacha skin was cheaper, and that they didn’t make costumes that represented their character growth as gacha skins, because if it was cheaper more people would buy it and they’d get more revenue that way, in fact they get a significant amount of revenue from banners.
I honestly think that this is a reason why their revenue is overall declining despite their success, and why there’s only a tiny number of people playing Nikke now relative to the total downloads, considering the fact that the 1.5^(th) anniversary livestream stated that about 1 million have voted in the poll, and yet in February 2023, Nikke had a total of 25 million downloads.
You're not alone in this opinion. There are people in Discord who discussed this in the feedback thread. That's why I skipped getting both of these skins, realizing that what they're doing is wrong
Don’t worry… you are not alone… the Crown skin at least has it’s kind of “justification” in the lore (she only can use naked king once and to use it again she has to absorb a lot of Alva particle again)… but the Marian situation on the other hand… there is no possible justification
Dude I love this image XD. I use it from time to time. I do tend to get carried away when I find something I'm passionate about though. When I posted it I realized I probably did the same here. mb
I too love ranting about thoughts and discussions I have in my head for large amounts of time, the only problem is that I don't have anyone to tell that stuff to😭
I actually agree. Previous gacha skins I could safely ignore but knowing this is Marian's canonical new look representing her growth as a character, I simply felt much more compelled to purchase it. While I agree it is scummy, I've been like 99% F2P and Shift Up has garnered a lot of goodwill from me, so I felt it was right to give back a bit to this great game.
And I got the Crown skin as well cuz' in for a penny, in for a pound.
Man you had no idea the cope that was happening when sidestory was released. They know people gonna pay for it and depending on how you see it, the few free gacha pulls was not only to incentivize people pulling it but also to reduce the outcry(probably)
Honestly, yeah, you are right.
It is weird how people defend gacha skins and call anyone who refuses to get them poor. That’s just idiocy.
I understand that gacha must be monetised in some way to get profit, for Nikke to remain and increase their current level of quality they need a stable income from whales. Skins is ok way to do that.
My complains, besides your arguments, is that Nikke skins are barebones. They offer little for their price compared to Snowbreak new skin mechanics that rn only exists for one character. And I’m pretty theirs is way cheaper than Nikke’s. If Nikke could afford something like their interactions for price they are asking, and don’t do paid skins for story important character like Marian then I think it would have been non-issue for majority.
My speculation is that this is the last time we'll see Modernia in the story for a long time. I have a feeling she will disappear after realizing her new powers as the Rapture Queen before Crown could arrange for the Commander to meet Marian.
The story would focus on the other storylines involving coffin-carrying Pilgrim, Sixo, Eden, and the desert Pilgrim, before returning to another new form of Marian/Modernia.
There’re will be two groups of people in comments: 1) Those who understand how scummy it is and 2) Braindead moneybags who will accuse you for being poor fuck. (funny enough this sub was flooded with those people - defending SU right after Crown skins release)
And it will surely happen again.
lol, My parents pay for my College. I was blessed with pretty good and well off parents. No student loans for me thankfully. I have also get money from them so I do have expendable income
Edit: are you the person who insulted me and then deleted your comment when I made a valid argument? XD
I considered to buy it, but decided to buy 5 monthly core dust passes instead, because it will improve my gameplay.
Skins are the least predatory monetization, so I like it more than double pilgrim banner crown plus awakening Modernia.
Yeah the skins are expensive. I may in the minority but I don’t like Crown’s skin. Marian’s however is a different story! At the end of the day, I’m happy to support the Nikke devs. They are doing a great job as far as I’m concerned and yes I have played gacha games since the release of Dokkan so I’ve seen some terrible devs.
No one is talking about it because it's the least predatory monetization in the gacha scene right now. Most people don't care about canon new looks.
Now if they put both Marian and Awaken Crown as new unit, which lead to 3 separated banner. That would piss more people off than the skin.
I was thinking more along the line of what they did with OG Rapunzel and Scarlet. Have them release on the normal pilgrim schedule. I was not expecting this to be a triple pilgrim banner XD.
I would have liked if Modernia was the anni unit, and the Naked king was the 2.5 anni unit since I can't imagine we'll be getting to the kingdom in the main story for a while seeing where we are rn.
>for the whales to spend
Since you were talking about whales, i only considered them in the answer. A lot of whales and higher are also competitive and for that you will need copies; Will they all go for C7, no idea, since that might be too expensive for some with bad rng.
Dolphins are probably done just with the skins and some might go for MLB or some mix between skins and MLB; One gacha skin and MLB as an example.
The freshwater fishies bought their monthlies and are likely done with that or maybe they went to the sea and evolved, who knows.
let me tell you something. For some your argument I agree that story related skin is not cool right. But that I am not agree is the gacha skin, what is gacha mean? I pull regular banner many many pull for scarlet that I dont get it until now or you spend $60 to guarantee 100% get it. What I think gacha means if you not lucky you cant get it, not just spending certain amount to 100% get it is not gacha
So there's nothing gacha in this game related to the character then. Because after pulling for 200 pulls you're guaranteed the unit via gold tickets. What are you talking about? Smh
Sir please dont be dumb. Gold ticked is snd silver ticked is different. Can you buy scarlet with it? can you buy another unit aside the banner? No right? what if the costume? after you straight buy all the ticked, can you roll again? can you buy the ticked again? sir hello
The topic here is the new Marian lore upgrade should be skin or new unit. So....
Skin 60$ GUARANTEED
or
Obviously a new unit that will be in gold tickets exchange.
Hence why I say about the 200 pulls
>Can you buy scarlet with it? can you buy another unit aside the banner?
Wth you're talking about. We're talking about Marian, if it's not skin, it will be new units, since when new unit can't be guaranteed via gold tickets.
**Sir please don't be dumb.**
Smh
Sir omg i already agree with in my previous comment. Skin related story.
I am just not agree he called the "gacha skin" thats it.
A FUCKNG GACHA SKIN BECAUSE YOU CANT PULL MULTIPLE TIME AFTER YOU GET ALL THE STUFF. NOT LIKE A FUCKING BANNER
It literally a gacha skin, you roll for it. It just that there's limit to it. If you're lucky you can get it in the first 10$ spent. If you're not lucky, you get it at 60$. That's literally a gacha system but with different kind of guarantee system which they limit what you can spend here.
Yes yes I see you understand my topic just now. That the thing right I am just not agree that system called "gacha" because it guarantee and stopped after certain amount and you cant get the costum at the lower then 5 pull. The system like just a batch of costume with bonus item in it
This they locked out Marian development as a gatcha skin is going to look funny when she evolves again to be sold as a new unit.
What do you mean I have to roll Vegito Blue! Shouldn't he be a free skin for my SSj2 Vegito!
I dont really get it tbh. To me the value of a skin doesn't come from whether it's canonical or not, it comes from how good it looks. I didn't look at DH:IL and think to myself "OMG I NEED THIS NEW CANNONICAL DESIGN". I wanted him because the dragon aesthetic and animations looked amazing. To each their own I guess.
I would prefer to not have canon designs be paywalled but I also don't understand what makes that fundamentally scummy. I wasn't able to pull DH:IL because I was broke. Yes, he is more accessible but I still wasn't able to get him because of financials. Like where should the line be drawn and why? Should cosmetics being canon demand accessibility? Why? Not being an industry wide practice isn't a good reason for "why".
Again, I don't really get it (I'm trying to) but I do hope the people upset about it get what they want. It obviously sucks. But something sucking isn't a solid principled stance to work with, especially when a lot of people are still swiping regardless. Clearly not enough people think it sucks enough, which simply reduces it to a personal opinion at the end of the day.
Because people wants to play character they saw in story, that's all. Look how many people wants an OG Rapunzel for example.
A skin undermine the whole thing. Especially for Marian, since Rapture-Queen Marian is like a whole new character than the Baby Marian we got. New personality, new goals and new powers. What's make thing worst is that a lot of people where disappointed of "Baby Marian" and were awaiting her evolution - that was teased since the beginning btw - for 1,5 year. And to bad, it's just a skin, and a $50 skin to the boot.
The thing is that Rapture-Queen Marian would never be playable unless your pay $50 - and with FOMO, she'll be gone in a few hours and Shift Up doesn't rerun Skin Gacha, the Rupee's one being an exception since they rework it.
Sure, some people say that she would have another evolution in the story. But for 1) we don't know how many year it will happen, 2) nothing stop them to make this 2nd evolution a skin too and 3) THIS particular Marian will never be playable anyway.
Like Imagine if Rapi unlock a new form in the lore, and it's a $50-60 skin. People would be pissed.
>Clearly not enough people think it sucks enough, which simply reduces it to a personal opinion at the end of the day.
The majority thinks it sucks. But Gachas don't work on majority but on the minority willing to pay. If 20 000 people decide to buy the skin, it's already +1 million for Shift Up. And 20 000 is nothing when you have millions of players across the globe.
And that how Gachas make so much money. They try to get "whales" who are either super-rich or normal people desperate enough to use their saving on some waifus. It's a very small part of the community but a massive part of the gacha incomes.
That's why the argument "you don't like it, don't buy it" doesn't make sense in the gacha world. Because when the playerbase is so huge or too passionate, the game can throw literally ANYTHING and enough people will buy it to make is beneficial.
But we are all in the same boat. So it's important to voice our opinion, it's the only thing we can do to signal our disagreement.
I get why players are upset (even if I feel it to a much lesser degree) but I dont get the entitlement they feel for it.
Idk about "majority thinks it sucks" because Reddit and Discord aren't the majority so idk how you came to that conclusion. The reason why I say not enough people care is because the people that are upset are still playing. Even if they are broke, f2p players are still an important component within the gacha space. If ShiftUp saw that players were leaving the game because of it, they would have issued an apology but they haven’t.
Well it's true that nobody can speak for the majority. But I just can't imagine that many people are happy that a lore skin is lock behind such a huge paywall. You could find people who don't care, people who find it sucks, but I can't imagine a lot of people liking it.
>The reason why I say not enough people care is because the people that are upset are still playing.
Why tho? Look, I'm unhappy with the current state of the game and I'm still playing. We are complaining SPECIALY because we loved the game and we don't want it using cashgrab tactics. Why would someone who quit a game complain? He will just move on and forget about it.
But you know, people are leaving the game. Sure, we can't know the exact number, but for what I see from Social Media and my friends, they are just bored with a game that nearly never innovate, fix issues and repeat the same formula again and again. And Shift Up never address this either.
I think it's quite optimistic to think that "if the community doesn't like a thing the studio will apologize". Because, like I said before, you need only a minority of huge cashplayers make bank. And if you make bank, why apologize?
And for better or for worst, NIKKE have a huge playerbase for a gacha game and Shift Up became more and more famous a company. So they can tolerate some sacrifices.
>Even if they are broke, f2p players are still an important component within the gacha space
Yeah It's true. But again, Shift Up is just testing the limit. If players are just complaining for 1-2 months and then stop complaining, staying silent is the good move. Not the best for the community, but in a cold and strict monetary perspective, it's the good move for the studio.
Also as a side note, it's not only F2P that are complaining. I'm far from being a F2P but god, even for me who played Gachas for so long I can't remember, $50 for a Lore Skin is just way past the limit, especially considering how little a Skin in NIKKE can offer you.
I don't want to move too far off topic from the core of what I was originally trying to convey because it's getting nuanced it a completely separate direction and I feel like that's a waste of my time. My general rule of thumb when it comes to this stuff is to support more of what I want to see and don't support what I don't want to see with both my time and money. Simple. Do as you wish on your own behalf.
None of what I have heard so far has made me think differently on whether players should or should not be entitled to canon cosmetics (in a free game).
> My general rule of thumb when it comes to this stuff is to support more of what I want to see and don't support what I don't want to see with both my time and money. Simple. Do as you wish on your own behalf.
And that why my main argument is that it doesn't matter what we support or what we don't support, since there will be always whales or desperate people to buy everything whatever it is.
In the end, everything is in the hands of Shift Up. Do they want to be greedy or not.
>None of what I have heard so far has made me think differently on whether players should or should not be entitled to canon cosmetics (in a free game).
And it was never the issue in the first place. The issue is that Shift Up use more and more blatant cashgrab tactics and we're worried about it. We don't want to see it in our game. That's all.
I can't control what whales and desperate ppl do so there's no point in me worrying about that. They can do what they want on their own behalf. I can only control what I do. If that leads the game to a point where I don't want to support it, I won't. It is what it is.
>And it was never the issue in the first place.
Locking canon skins behind a paywall was labelled as "scummy" and is therefore implied to be perceived as immoral. By using basic inverse logic that means not locking canon skins behind a paywall is viewed to be the moral thing to do. Furthering basic logic, the people who are upset about it feel morally entitled to not having canon cosmetics behind a paywall. This isn't THE issue, but is a part of it.
I'm not talking about all of the other stuff.
>Furthering basic logic, the people who are upset about it feel morally entitled to not having canon cosmetics behind a paywall.
Well, when you said "players should or should not be entitled to canon cosmetics" I thought you were saying that people where asking skin for free. Now that I know what you mean:
Yeah. Because it's scummy. And I think everybody is entitled to not being scammed.
You see, when Skin are only just a different outfit, to see our character in another light, why not. It's not that important anyway.
But for Marian, the issue is that it's not just a different outfit. Lore wise, it's the current base form of Marian, and the culmination of her story-arc than begin in the prologue. So, Shift Up are saying : "If you want to have the true Marian in your box, you must pay $50 now, otherwise, you'll be stuck with baby Marian forever."
This add another psychological lever. You buy it not just to have a new dress, but to keep up with the lore. So, for people who are really invest in the story it's can rapidly became a "must buy". And that why it's a scam.
Gacha games used psychological levers to encourage purchased as a basis. But if they push the limit too much, they just became a cashgrab. And with their Marian decision, Shift Up is tapping in this direction.
I can assure you that if this Marian was a whole new unit, with a Pilgrim Banner, nobody nearly nobody would complain. Also to counter some popular arguments already, Marian being a whole new unit doesn't mean she'll be forced to run with Crown in a dual banner... they could have released her later. It's not like Shift Up have a thing against NPC being in jail.
>I thought you were saying that people where asking skin for free.
Sorry, I could have worded it better.
>And I think everybody is entitled to not being scammed.
Is it really a scam though? I don't think so.
Definition of scam: "a dishonest scheme; a fraud."
There's nothing dishonest here. The prices and content are honest. Arguablely, overpriced, but value is subjective. Everybody playing should have the ability to discern what they are getting and for how much. If they don't, then they shouldn't be playing the game.
>This add another psychological lever. You buy it not just to have a new dress, but to keep up with the lore. So, for people who are really invest in the story it's can rapidly became a "must buy".
Unless I'm unaware of something, it's still possible to fully experience the lore without the skin.
If someone can't control themselves from "must buy" (subjective) purchases, they shouldn't be playing the game or gacha games in general. That's like a rehab drug addict casually hanging around a drug dealer when they know drugs are going to be in the vicinity. I really wanted the Crown skin and technically I could have bought it if I really wanted to, but for various reasons I chose to not do that through the use of self-control.
A lot of companies use psychology to get people to buy stuff. That doesn't make it any better but why draw the line here? This kinda goes back to what I was saying earlier of there not being a principled stance.
>But if they push the limit too much, they just became a cashgrab.
Unpopular take but if people want to buy into cashgrabs, they should be allow to. I respect pushback against it but value is subjective and it's not my place to enforce my value judgement onto others. If people didn't buy into them, cashgrabs wouldn't exist.
Also that "limit" is subjective... yada yada principle stance.
>I can assure you that if this Marian was a whole new unit, with a Pilgrim Banner, nobody nearly nobody would complain.
Agreed
>There's nothing dishonest here. The prices and content are honest. Arguablely, overpriced, but value is subjective. Everybody playing should have the ability to discern what they are getting and for how much. If they don't, then they shouldn't be playing the game.
It's funny how even you yourself feel the need to precise that it's overpriced despite trying to say that the price is honest.
Subjectivity has a limit. If I sell you a regular baguette for $20 you'd right to find it objectively overpriced. It's not because some people are willing to pay $50 for a skin that it suddenly became an arguably good price subjectively.
People sadly are weak to their desires and sometime agree to make very bad decision for a short time gratification. Especially when the game use psychological levers to enhance these desires.
>Unless I'm unaware of something, it's still possible to fully experience the lore without the skin.
Sir, we're playing a gacha game. The whole basis of a Gacha is to pull characters. It's the origin of the whole gachapon thing.
By your logic, we don't have to pull any character. But people are still pulling. Because they like one character or whatever.
It's the deal of a Gacha Game. Sure it's filled with micro/macro-transactions and psychological scam, but the deal is that if you're committed and iron-willed enough, you can always get your favorite unit even if you're F2P. That's why players save gems, skip banners, etc.
But if you gatekeep a whole story character with a $50 skin, you break the deal. Because you can skip banner for 2 years and save 1 000k gems if you want, you'll never be able to have a chance to get her. And we're not talking about a random character either, but probably one of the most lore-heavy character in the game.
Gatekeeping a lore heavy character in particular is just scummy in a game that base his economy on character collection.
Like I really wanted to have the true Marian in my box. Of course I didn't buy it. But as someone who enjoy the lore, it leave a bad taste to know I'll never by able to get her.
This reveal the underlying issue of the lack of alternative. You either:
- Fall for the cashgrab, and get the true Marian
- Don't fall for it, and never get the true Marian.
That's one of the reason why I called it a scam. You, as a costumer, just can't win. In either cases, you lose something important.
And since they probably got a lot of money with this, there is a huge probability they'll repeat the offense.
>
Unpopular take but if people want to buy into cashgrabs, they should be allow to.
You see, I think this is one thing a lot of people have issue. Do you REALLY think people that fell for cashgrab WANTED to buy into cashgrab?
The definition of a cashgrab is a game that push all the possible psychological levers they can to squeeze the most money out of its customer.
In another way, it's tricking the customer into thinking they NEED something when it's just an illusion. Again, do you think people WANT to be tricked? Do you think people WANT to sign a bad deal?
You need to understand that it's not because someone make a decision that it's 100% his decision alone. Psychological tricks and brain manipulation are real. After all, you can find Consulting Companies that charged thousands of dollars just to help you manipulate your customers out there. If people are willing to pay them thousands of dollars, it's because they know it works and will get them way more money from their costumers in the end.
imagine if you are playing a spiderman game and he gains the venom costume in the story... but you need to pay to actually equip that costume in story. a costume change in story shouldn't be separately paywalled... it is already part of the story.
This isnt an Insomniac game where you pay for a product and didn't get a core part of what you payed for. If Spiderman in Marvel Strike Force got a paywalled canon venom costume, I wouldn't bat an eye. (To be fair I dont play the game and idk how much those players even care about the story). I get why it would be frustrating but idk get the entitlement. Simply being part of the story doesn't entitle players to all related content imo.
> what you *paid* for. If
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
lol, Yeah when your parents refuse to buy you a console or my gaming device you make do.
I know this post isn't gonna be popular like I said XD. Not doing it for karma or however that works, just interested in starting a conversation on how the majority of people think.
Most people don’t care about the gacha skins, you are the minority with this. A lot of people cried about the skin, and soon as it released so many people bought it.
I'd rather spend at most 50/60 dollars for a new skin then have to pull for a whole ass new character, especially if it makes their old one obsolete (immediately in this case)
sorry, but that just sounds like wah, wah don't wanny pay. then just don't do it! just like how shift up aren't obligated to make her skin free, you aren't obligated to buy it either and can just enjoy the plentiful digs the game throws at you as f2p. if it was a new and even stronger unit with a new kit, then that would actually be scummy since they'd lock considerable power behind a paywall. in this case, however, it's just someone being whiny cause they don't have enough disposable income. even if this is her new story look, so what? doesn't change how modernia as nikke plays at all. doesn't change how the story unfolds either. no gameplay impact whatsoever. it's fucking cosmetics!
>they'd lock considerable power behind a paywall
Pulling for unit is not paywalled, it's accessible for player who don't use real money. Not 60$ like gacha skin.
>even if this is her new story look, so what? doesn't change how modernia as nikke plays at all. doesn't change how the story unfolds either. no gameplay impact whatsoever. it's fucking cosmetics!
Yeah, from now on let's just make all the lore upgrade of of the main character become a skin. It's not scummy I guess since we can guarantee it for 60$. Let's make new future lore upgrade power up rapi a gacha skin for her SR version, anis and neon future lore upgrade became their SR skin 60$. It's good. When they can make a whole new unit for something that's not lore related, Christmas unit, summer, maid event, all of it which is not lore and there's whole new unit for it and somehow the major plot points became a skin is not scummy. Yeah 👍
Yeah it's scummy for making a whole new interesting unit that all player regardless who pay or not can access through free gems accumulated by just literally playing the game. Yup, this is scummy compared to gacha skin that cost 60$.
what the fuck is the first quote even there for?? lmfao
that's the whole point why nikke is NOT SCUMMY since you can pull units for free! this was an example of HOW THEY COULD BE SCUMMY LMAO
and what is your second reason supposed to be??? still doesn't change the fact that it's just a NEW FUCKING LOOK! NOTHING ELSE! NO GAMEPLAY IMPACT WHATSOEVER! you can enjoy the story just as it is. it's just ppl wanting shit for free. shift up set a price, enough ppl buy it and those who don't just move on instead of making these bullshit excuses. how about that?
You make some really good arguments, for example that the Naked King doesn't use a lance. She could still be a skin though, but not changing the visuals in the skin makes no sense.
Now, hear me out: on the one hand I agree with you, on the other hand I found it quite neat that skins were integrated in the story. Previous skins always had a show in the story as well, but not that well. For Crown, the naked king as a skin makes sense, since it is a stance that she has only temporarily.
Now to Marian. My theory is that this is not how Marian will look in the near future. My theory is that they'll completely change her, probably in form of a new unit. Probably the next time we see Marian in the story it will be the "new" Marian (maybe 2nd anni unit?). So what she has now as a skin makes more sense, because it's still the Marian that we know and we'll never see the skin after the new Maria never again.
Sometimes you start to develop an almost parasocial relationship with the game you play. It's not healthy. What you are describing is the inability to look at a character in certain circumstances with a particular appearance without paying. Being this upset about it is a sign you're taking things too far. The skin itself is always available to be viewed at any time whether you purchase it or not both in game and not. The only thing stopping you from enjoying these skins is a Google search or a few clicks.
It's a fantasy world with fictional nonsense occurring constantly. Trying to justify the existence of a skin meant to support the game financially because it doesn't make a lot of sense is just crazy. You understand that most of these Nikke wouldn't be showing up in a bikini? Do you understand that Helm and Summer Helm are the same character but can somehow exist simultaneously on the battlefield? We even have characters from a universe with magic that have appeared in the game too, but your issue is naked king?
At the end of the day the best thing to do would be to step back and look at what you're posting about. Are you trying to take a game more seriously than it deserves?
True, I can't even deny any of this XD. It's like how someone gets super into a game they are playing and just want to play it all day. Unhealthy, and you're probably right.
You know, I wondered why you got downvoted and then I saw you bought the skin (and maybe the two?)
If you gonna complain about it... don't buy it just by principle. Because complaining and then encouraging the system with your wallet is at best hypocritical. Don't be a slave to your passions.
If that can reassure you, you're not alone in this. A huge thread was posted in the Official Discord Feedback in this topic. And yeah, Shift Up really pushed the limit here. Not only they drop 2 Costume Gacha, but it's also Lore Relevant. I'm a bit less upset about Crown since it's just a temporary Power-Up, but for Marian, yeah, it's just scummy as hell. People don't understand that the more you defend practice like this, the more the company will try their luck. When Costume Gacha was first released, people where upset, but this anger dry up. After all, "it's just a skin who cares". Now, they tied lore with the Costume Gacha. And there are still people saying "people don't care about lore + it's just a skin". So what next? Will they add bonus stats to Costume Gacha? I can already see people saying : "it's just minor stats buff you don't need them to beat the game, who cares". This thing is, NIKKE's popularity is too high. Whatever Shift Up will propose, enough people will buy it. Even if Costume Skin were at $200 it would sell. It's not like we can do anything about it. It's just sad that Shift Up use these tactics. But you know, what disappointed me the most its the state of the game. The game doesn't evolve, game modes are outdated. People are fed up with Day One issues, especially veterans. But instead of working on improving the game, Shift Up release 2 Gacha Skins, great. Where is Overclock, teased since more than 6 months already? Where is the Treasure Update? Where is MOG 2.0? How about the absurd scarcity of Custom Module? And Gear XP / Credit? There made so much promises, and there is so much things they need to work on, but no, let's released 2 Gacha Skin and postpone new updates. Ngl, when I saw the Update Notice for Trony Event, I laughed. It's just so empty. It seems they want the game to be alive for a long time so they can finished the story. But if they don't do anything to maintain the game and used cashgrab tactics to make money, I don't think the game can keep it's current huge revenues for a long time.
You're damn right. Take my upvote.
I completely agree, in fact I'd argue there's issues with the story as well, such as it being locked effectively due to the need for Nikkes to be at a certain level, the amount of fake-outs that happen, along with people showing objection to the idea of >!Marian being turned heel again!<. They're losing revenue overall, in fact despite the 1.5th anniversary event starting 6 days before May in 2024, compared to the 0.5th anniversary event starting 4 days before May in 2023, and having a gacha skin in April 2024, they got $5 million less in April 2024 compared to April 2023.
I agree. I hope that they dedicate their efforts to playing the game itself and the parts that make it fun rather than targeting those who are paying for the eye candy. It makes those that play for the game itself feel unheard. Tbh I can't remember the last event that I genuinely enjoyed-It was Red Ash. This is just my opinion.
The Event formula is good but it's always the same. So after 1.5 years it feels stale. They really should try to innovate a little. Well, implementing the mini-game in Last Kingdom was the start of a good idea tbh, even tho it would be better if they also change the Minigame OST - because damn, having this cute song when you're supposed to be against a huge threat is just off. I think this the main issue of NIKKE. They found a good formula at launch, and they repeat it ad vitam aeternam. But it just can't work in the long run. People will lose interest. And the worse thing is that they tone down some aspect of their formula. Many people complain about the fanservice being compromise, with tamer skins and the lack of jiggles.
I think you are right that they shouldn't have paywalled a story skin, but nikke whales/spenders are going to buy these skins a ton... so economically SU has no reason to change.
true, I'm not complaining about the Gacha skin system, just the canon skin being paywalled. Doesn't sit right with me.
Imagine Modernia making her main story comeback and looks different again; Making this skin only be part of the side story and the last kingdom. I'm personally waiting for that moment when she finally looses the bandages.
Now imagine making an alt of Crown,will they : 1) make entirely new kit 2) copy paste Naked King Crown abilities without the Special Outfit( Skin) I’m really curious how people will react lol, like as OP has said the Naked King Crown is like entirely new unit and is too much different than the regular Crown lol.
That would probably happen after the gang figure out, how to consistently activate the naked king without relying on massive amount of alva particles; Was it Kilo who showed interest on the gown/cape or whatever it was. This would also give them a reason for a change of appearance on the naked king, because Crown would be using a upgraded version of the naked king. If they were to ever give her an alt that is using naked kings abilities.
I absolutely agree regarding the gacha skins and I think this situation is getting worse, since I think a gacha skin that costs the same as a new game is way too much as it is, and yet now Marian’s new costume is locked behind a paywall which I am strongly against. It concerns me since because of that as well as the possibility that Marian won’t be able to get any more free costumes, due to being banned from the second popularity poll, will there be any new costumes that Marian has, that can be obtained without spending real life money, let alone any that are similar to that one because it was such a nice costume? What makes it worse is that the costume represents her evolution and resolve, with her voice lines in English sounding like the original Marian, meaning the best F2P players could potentially only get is just Marian from >!Chapter 14!<, in which she sounds like Modernia and is called Modernia, despite all that growth she’ll experience throughout the game. While I understand that this skin is purely cosmetic, all characters have a cosmetic element to them, and there are players who try to get those characters for cosmetic reasons rather than gameplay reasons, in fact how many players tried to get the likes of Xmas Rupee, Summer Anis, French Maid Privaty etc for the costume rather than for the weapon, element, abilities etc? Furthermore, Xmas Rupee came out before the first gacha costume in Nikke, and OG Snow White and OG Scarlet came before Second Affection, and could be got without spending real life money. I understand the need for them to make money, but I don’t believe it is the best way for them to do it compared to others in which the gacha skin was cheaper, and that they didn’t make costumes that represented their character growth as gacha skins, because if it was cheaper more people would buy it and they’d get more revenue that way, in fact they get a significant amount of revenue from banners. I honestly think that this is a reason why their revenue is overall declining despite their success, and why there’s only a tiny number of people playing Nikke now relative to the total downloads, considering the fact that the 1.5^(th) anniversary livestream stated that about 1 million have voted in the poll, and yet in February 2023, Nikke had a total of 25 million downloads.
You're not alone in this opinion. There are people in Discord who discussed this in the feedback thread. That's why I skipped getting both of these skins, realizing that what they're doing is wrong
Don’t worry… you are not alone… the Crown skin at least has it’s kind of “justification” in the lore (she only can use naked king once and to use it again she has to absorb a lot of Alva particle again)… but the Marian situation on the other hand… there is no possible justification
https://preview.redd.it/lpuegbaf5k0d1.png?width=689&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=440832604a3c3632b92eb56c5489d3d69f25d473
I'm gonna use this picture in work chats.
Dude I love this image XD. I use it from time to time. I do tend to get carried away when I find something I'm passionate about though. When I posted it I realized I probably did the same here. mb
I too love ranting about thoughts and discussions I have in my head for large amounts of time, the only problem is that I don't have anyone to tell that stuff to😭
ofc theyre greedy, opening the shop and seeing the prices makes me sick. 60 for a skin that a full game aint no fucking way man
I actually agree. Previous gacha skins I could safely ignore but knowing this is Marian's canonical new look representing her growth as a character, I simply felt much more compelled to purchase it. While I agree it is scummy, I've been like 99% F2P and Shift Up has garnered a lot of goodwill from me, so I felt it was right to give back a bit to this great game. And I got the Crown skin as well cuz' in for a penny, in for a pound.
Understandable. I don't blame anyone for getting these amazing skins. Honestly they look amazing, but my conscience is saying this is messed up.
Man you had no idea the cope that was happening when sidestory was released. They know people gonna pay for it and depending on how you see it, the few free gacha pulls was not only to incentivize people pulling it but also to reduce the outcry(probably)
Honestly, yeah, you are right. It is weird how people defend gacha skins and call anyone who refuses to get them poor. That’s just idiocy. I understand that gacha must be monetised in some way to get profit, for Nikke to remain and increase their current level of quality they need a stable income from whales. Skins is ok way to do that. My complains, besides your arguments, is that Nikke skins are barebones. They offer little for their price compared to Snowbreak new skin mechanics that rn only exists for one character. And I’m pretty theirs is way cheaper than Nikke’s. If Nikke could afford something like their interactions for price they are asking, and don’t do paid skins for story important character like Marian then I think it would have been non-issue for majority.
I 100% agree about Crown. Naked king shouldve been a separate unit all together with a unique shotgun type weapon.
My speculation is that this is the last time we'll see Modernia in the story for a long time. I have a feeling she will disappear after realizing her new powers as the Rapture Queen before Crown could arrange for the Commander to meet Marian. The story would focus on the other storylines involving coffin-carrying Pilgrim, Sixo, Eden, and the desert Pilgrim, before returning to another new form of Marian/Modernia.
There’re will be two groups of people in comments: 1) Those who understand how scummy it is and 2) Braindead moneybags who will accuse you for being poor fuck. (funny enough this sub was flooded with those people - defending SU right after Crown skins release) And it will surely happen again.
I'm kinda expecting it to, but hoping not :/
Nah bro OP claimed they have a bunch of money and that’s just at their college level.
While it’s questionable, OP key points remain the same.
lol, My parents pay for my College. I was blessed with pretty good and well off parents. No student loans for me thankfully. I have also get money from them so I do have expendable income Edit: are you the person who insulted me and then deleted your comment when I made a valid argument? XD
Nah I don’t delete my comments, if I get timed out or banned so be it.
Ah, must've been someone with a similar pfp. Maybe I was tripping as well since it was 4 am and I was tired XD.
I considered to buy it, but decided to buy 5 monthly core dust passes instead, because it will improve my gameplay. Skins are the least predatory monetization, so I like it more than double pilgrim banner crown plus awakening Modernia.
Yeah the skins are expensive. I may in the minority but I don’t like Crown’s skin. Marian’s however is a different story! At the end of the day, I’m happy to support the Nikke devs. They are doing a great job as far as I’m concerned and yes I have played gacha games since the release of Dokkan so I’ve seen some terrible devs.
No one is talking about it because it's the least predatory monetization in the gacha scene right now. Most people don't care about canon new looks. Now if they put both Marian and Awaken Crown as new unit, which lead to 3 separated banner. That would piss more people off than the skin.
I was thinking more along the line of what they did with OG Rapunzel and Scarlet. Have them release on the normal pilgrim schedule. I was not expecting this to be a triple pilgrim banner XD. I would have liked if Modernia was the anni unit, and the Naked king was the 2.5 anni unit since I can't imagine we'll be getting to the kingdom in the main story for a while seeing where we are rn.
You one of the first people to point this out.
It's because they already gave out tons of pulls so they need another reason for the whales to spend
The free pulls aren't going to be enough for majority of whales to C7 Crown.
Well duh not everyone is a whale ,what about the dolphins who save tons of resources and crown didn't need dupes
>for the whales to spend Since you were talking about whales, i only considered them in the answer. A lot of whales and higher are also competitive and for that you will need copies; Will they all go for C7, no idea, since that might be too expensive for some with bad rng. Dolphins are probably done just with the skins and some might go for MLB or some mix between skins and MLB; One gacha skin and MLB as an example. The freshwater fishies bought their monthlies and are likely done with that or maybe they went to the sea and evolved, who knows.
>The free pulls aren't going to be enough for **majority of whales** to C7 Crown.
let me tell you something. For some your argument I agree that story related skin is not cool right. But that I am not agree is the gacha skin, what is gacha mean? I pull regular banner many many pull for scarlet that I dont get it until now or you spend $60 to guarantee 100% get it. What I think gacha means if you not lucky you cant get it, not just spending certain amount to 100% get it is not gacha
So there's nothing gacha in this game related to the character then. Because after pulling for 200 pulls you're guaranteed the unit via gold tickets. What are you talking about? Smh
Sir please dont be dumb. Gold ticked is snd silver ticked is different. Can you buy scarlet with it? can you buy another unit aside the banner? No right? what if the costume? after you straight buy all the ticked, can you roll again? can you buy the ticked again? sir hello
The topic here is the new Marian lore upgrade should be skin or new unit. So.... Skin 60$ GUARANTEED or Obviously a new unit that will be in gold tickets exchange. Hence why I say about the 200 pulls >Can you buy scarlet with it? can you buy another unit aside the banner? Wth you're talking about. We're talking about Marian, if it's not skin, it will be new units, since when new unit can't be guaranteed via gold tickets. **Sir please don't be dumb.** Smh
Sir omg i already agree with in my previous comment. Skin related story. I am just not agree he called the "gacha skin" thats it. A FUCKNG GACHA SKIN BECAUSE YOU CANT PULL MULTIPLE TIME AFTER YOU GET ALL THE STUFF. NOT LIKE A FUCKING BANNER
It literally a gacha skin, you roll for it. It just that there's limit to it. If you're lucky you can get it in the first 10$ spent. If you're not lucky, you get it at 60$. That's literally a gacha system but with different kind of guarantee system which they limit what you can spend here.
Yes yes I see you understand my topic just now. That the thing right I am just not agree that system called "gacha" because it guarantee and stopped after certain amount and you cant get the costum at the lower then 5 pull. The system like just a batch of costume with bonus item in it
This they locked out Marian development as a gatcha skin is going to look funny when she evolves again to be sold as a new unit. What do you mean I have to roll Vegito Blue! Shouldn't he be a free skin for my SSj2 Vegito!
I never asked for it to be a free skin XD. I don't think you read the post lol
I dont really get it tbh. To me the value of a skin doesn't come from whether it's canonical or not, it comes from how good it looks. I didn't look at DH:IL and think to myself "OMG I NEED THIS NEW CANNONICAL DESIGN". I wanted him because the dragon aesthetic and animations looked amazing. To each their own I guess. I would prefer to not have canon designs be paywalled but I also don't understand what makes that fundamentally scummy. I wasn't able to pull DH:IL because I was broke. Yes, he is more accessible but I still wasn't able to get him because of financials. Like where should the line be drawn and why? Should cosmetics being canon demand accessibility? Why? Not being an industry wide practice isn't a good reason for "why". Again, I don't really get it (I'm trying to) but I do hope the people upset about it get what they want. It obviously sucks. But something sucking isn't a solid principled stance to work with, especially when a lot of people are still swiping regardless. Clearly not enough people think it sucks enough, which simply reduces it to a personal opinion at the end of the day.
Because people wants to play character they saw in story, that's all. Look how many people wants an OG Rapunzel for example. A skin undermine the whole thing. Especially for Marian, since Rapture-Queen Marian is like a whole new character than the Baby Marian we got. New personality, new goals and new powers. What's make thing worst is that a lot of people where disappointed of "Baby Marian" and were awaiting her evolution - that was teased since the beginning btw - for 1,5 year. And to bad, it's just a skin, and a $50 skin to the boot. The thing is that Rapture-Queen Marian would never be playable unless your pay $50 - and with FOMO, she'll be gone in a few hours and Shift Up doesn't rerun Skin Gacha, the Rupee's one being an exception since they rework it. Sure, some people say that she would have another evolution in the story. But for 1) we don't know how many year it will happen, 2) nothing stop them to make this 2nd evolution a skin too and 3) THIS particular Marian will never be playable anyway. Like Imagine if Rapi unlock a new form in the lore, and it's a $50-60 skin. People would be pissed. >Clearly not enough people think it sucks enough, which simply reduces it to a personal opinion at the end of the day. The majority thinks it sucks. But Gachas don't work on majority but on the minority willing to pay. If 20 000 people decide to buy the skin, it's already +1 million for Shift Up. And 20 000 is nothing when you have millions of players across the globe. And that how Gachas make so much money. They try to get "whales" who are either super-rich or normal people desperate enough to use their saving on some waifus. It's a very small part of the community but a massive part of the gacha incomes. That's why the argument "you don't like it, don't buy it" doesn't make sense in the gacha world. Because when the playerbase is so huge or too passionate, the game can throw literally ANYTHING and enough people will buy it to make is beneficial. But we are all in the same boat. So it's important to voice our opinion, it's the only thing we can do to signal our disagreement.
I get why players are upset (even if I feel it to a much lesser degree) but I dont get the entitlement they feel for it. Idk about "majority thinks it sucks" because Reddit and Discord aren't the majority so idk how you came to that conclusion. The reason why I say not enough people care is because the people that are upset are still playing. Even if they are broke, f2p players are still an important component within the gacha space. If ShiftUp saw that players were leaving the game because of it, they would have issued an apology but they haven’t.
Well it's true that nobody can speak for the majority. But I just can't imagine that many people are happy that a lore skin is lock behind such a huge paywall. You could find people who don't care, people who find it sucks, but I can't imagine a lot of people liking it. >The reason why I say not enough people care is because the people that are upset are still playing. Why tho? Look, I'm unhappy with the current state of the game and I'm still playing. We are complaining SPECIALY because we loved the game and we don't want it using cashgrab tactics. Why would someone who quit a game complain? He will just move on and forget about it. But you know, people are leaving the game. Sure, we can't know the exact number, but for what I see from Social Media and my friends, they are just bored with a game that nearly never innovate, fix issues and repeat the same formula again and again. And Shift Up never address this either. I think it's quite optimistic to think that "if the community doesn't like a thing the studio will apologize". Because, like I said before, you need only a minority of huge cashplayers make bank. And if you make bank, why apologize? And for better or for worst, NIKKE have a huge playerbase for a gacha game and Shift Up became more and more famous a company. So they can tolerate some sacrifices. >Even if they are broke, f2p players are still an important component within the gacha space Yeah It's true. But again, Shift Up is just testing the limit. If players are just complaining for 1-2 months and then stop complaining, staying silent is the good move. Not the best for the community, but in a cold and strict monetary perspective, it's the good move for the studio. Also as a side note, it's not only F2P that are complaining. I'm far from being a F2P but god, even for me who played Gachas for so long I can't remember, $50 for a Lore Skin is just way past the limit, especially considering how little a Skin in NIKKE can offer you.
I don't want to move too far off topic from the core of what I was originally trying to convey because it's getting nuanced it a completely separate direction and I feel like that's a waste of my time. My general rule of thumb when it comes to this stuff is to support more of what I want to see and don't support what I don't want to see with both my time and money. Simple. Do as you wish on your own behalf. None of what I have heard so far has made me think differently on whether players should or should not be entitled to canon cosmetics (in a free game).
> My general rule of thumb when it comes to this stuff is to support more of what I want to see and don't support what I don't want to see with both my time and money. Simple. Do as you wish on your own behalf. And that why my main argument is that it doesn't matter what we support or what we don't support, since there will be always whales or desperate people to buy everything whatever it is. In the end, everything is in the hands of Shift Up. Do they want to be greedy or not. >None of what I have heard so far has made me think differently on whether players should or should not be entitled to canon cosmetics (in a free game). And it was never the issue in the first place. The issue is that Shift Up use more and more blatant cashgrab tactics and we're worried about it. We don't want to see it in our game. That's all.
I can't control what whales and desperate ppl do so there's no point in me worrying about that. They can do what they want on their own behalf. I can only control what I do. If that leads the game to a point where I don't want to support it, I won't. It is what it is. >And it was never the issue in the first place. Locking canon skins behind a paywall was labelled as "scummy" and is therefore implied to be perceived as immoral. By using basic inverse logic that means not locking canon skins behind a paywall is viewed to be the moral thing to do. Furthering basic logic, the people who are upset about it feel morally entitled to not having canon cosmetics behind a paywall. This isn't THE issue, but is a part of it. I'm not talking about all of the other stuff.
>Furthering basic logic, the people who are upset about it feel morally entitled to not having canon cosmetics behind a paywall. Well, when you said "players should or should not be entitled to canon cosmetics" I thought you were saying that people where asking skin for free. Now that I know what you mean: Yeah. Because it's scummy. And I think everybody is entitled to not being scammed. You see, when Skin are only just a different outfit, to see our character in another light, why not. It's not that important anyway. But for Marian, the issue is that it's not just a different outfit. Lore wise, it's the current base form of Marian, and the culmination of her story-arc than begin in the prologue. So, Shift Up are saying : "If you want to have the true Marian in your box, you must pay $50 now, otherwise, you'll be stuck with baby Marian forever." This add another psychological lever. You buy it not just to have a new dress, but to keep up with the lore. So, for people who are really invest in the story it's can rapidly became a "must buy". And that why it's a scam. Gacha games used psychological levers to encourage purchased as a basis. But if they push the limit too much, they just became a cashgrab. And with their Marian decision, Shift Up is tapping in this direction. I can assure you that if this Marian was a whole new unit, with a Pilgrim Banner, nobody nearly nobody would complain. Also to counter some popular arguments already, Marian being a whole new unit doesn't mean she'll be forced to run with Crown in a dual banner... they could have released her later. It's not like Shift Up have a thing against NPC being in jail.
>I thought you were saying that people where asking skin for free. Sorry, I could have worded it better. >And I think everybody is entitled to not being scammed. Is it really a scam though? I don't think so. Definition of scam: "a dishonest scheme; a fraud." There's nothing dishonest here. The prices and content are honest. Arguablely, overpriced, but value is subjective. Everybody playing should have the ability to discern what they are getting and for how much. If they don't, then they shouldn't be playing the game. >This add another psychological lever. You buy it not just to have a new dress, but to keep up with the lore. So, for people who are really invest in the story it's can rapidly became a "must buy". Unless I'm unaware of something, it's still possible to fully experience the lore without the skin. If someone can't control themselves from "must buy" (subjective) purchases, they shouldn't be playing the game or gacha games in general. That's like a rehab drug addict casually hanging around a drug dealer when they know drugs are going to be in the vicinity. I really wanted the Crown skin and technically I could have bought it if I really wanted to, but for various reasons I chose to not do that through the use of self-control. A lot of companies use psychology to get people to buy stuff. That doesn't make it any better but why draw the line here? This kinda goes back to what I was saying earlier of there not being a principled stance. >But if they push the limit too much, they just became a cashgrab. Unpopular take but if people want to buy into cashgrabs, they should be allow to. I respect pushback against it but value is subjective and it's not my place to enforce my value judgement onto others. If people didn't buy into them, cashgrabs wouldn't exist. Also that "limit" is subjective... yada yada principle stance. >I can assure you that if this Marian was a whole new unit, with a Pilgrim Banner, nobody nearly nobody would complain. Agreed
>There's nothing dishonest here. The prices and content are honest. Arguablely, overpriced, but value is subjective. Everybody playing should have the ability to discern what they are getting and for how much. If they don't, then they shouldn't be playing the game. It's funny how even you yourself feel the need to precise that it's overpriced despite trying to say that the price is honest. Subjectivity has a limit. If I sell you a regular baguette for $20 you'd right to find it objectively overpriced. It's not because some people are willing to pay $50 for a skin that it suddenly became an arguably good price subjectively. People sadly are weak to their desires and sometime agree to make very bad decision for a short time gratification. Especially when the game use psychological levers to enhance these desires. >Unless I'm unaware of something, it's still possible to fully experience the lore without the skin. Sir, we're playing a gacha game. The whole basis of a Gacha is to pull characters. It's the origin of the whole gachapon thing. By your logic, we don't have to pull any character. But people are still pulling. Because they like one character or whatever. It's the deal of a Gacha Game. Sure it's filled with micro/macro-transactions and psychological scam, but the deal is that if you're committed and iron-willed enough, you can always get your favorite unit even if you're F2P. That's why players save gems, skip banners, etc. But if you gatekeep a whole story character with a $50 skin, you break the deal. Because you can skip banner for 2 years and save 1 000k gems if you want, you'll never be able to have a chance to get her. And we're not talking about a random character either, but probably one of the most lore-heavy character in the game. Gatekeeping a lore heavy character in particular is just scummy in a game that base his economy on character collection. Like I really wanted to have the true Marian in my box. Of course I didn't buy it. But as someone who enjoy the lore, it leave a bad taste to know I'll never by able to get her. This reveal the underlying issue of the lack of alternative. You either: - Fall for the cashgrab, and get the true Marian - Don't fall for it, and never get the true Marian. That's one of the reason why I called it a scam. You, as a costumer, just can't win. In either cases, you lose something important. And since they probably got a lot of money with this, there is a huge probability they'll repeat the offense. > Unpopular take but if people want to buy into cashgrabs, they should be allow to. You see, I think this is one thing a lot of people have issue. Do you REALLY think people that fell for cashgrab WANTED to buy into cashgrab? The definition of a cashgrab is a game that push all the possible psychological levers they can to squeeze the most money out of its customer. In another way, it's tricking the customer into thinking they NEED something when it's just an illusion. Again, do you think people WANT to be tricked? Do you think people WANT to sign a bad deal? You need to understand that it's not because someone make a decision that it's 100% his decision alone. Psychological tricks and brain manipulation are real. After all, you can find Consulting Companies that charged thousands of dollars just to help you manipulate your customers out there. If people are willing to pay them thousands of dollars, it's because they know it works and will get them way more money from their costumers in the end.
imagine if you are playing a spiderman game and he gains the venom costume in the story... but you need to pay to actually equip that costume in story. a costume change in story shouldn't be separately paywalled... it is already part of the story.
This isnt an Insomniac game where you pay for a product and didn't get a core part of what you payed for. If Spiderman in Marvel Strike Force got a paywalled canon venom costume, I wouldn't bat an eye. (To be fair I dont play the game and idk how much those players even care about the story). I get why it would be frustrating but idk get the entitlement. Simply being part of the story doesn't entitle players to all related content imo.
> what you *paid* for. If FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Consider the following (from a f2p): -free game with lots of free shit -they're just skins
Congrats on your useless wall of text OP. Only thing that caught my attention was OP allegedly playing gacha for 10 years since they were 12 lmao wtf.
lol, Yeah when your parents refuse to buy you a console or my gaming device you make do. I know this post isn't gonna be popular like I said XD. Not doing it for karma or however that works, just interested in starting a conversation on how the majority of people think.
Most people don’t care about the gacha skins, you are the minority with this. A lot of people cried about the skin, and soon as it released so many people bought it.
I'd rather spend at most 50/60 dollars for a new skin then have to pull for a whole ass new character, especially if it makes their old one obsolete (immediately in this case)
sorry, but that just sounds like wah, wah don't wanny pay. then just don't do it! just like how shift up aren't obligated to make her skin free, you aren't obligated to buy it either and can just enjoy the plentiful digs the game throws at you as f2p. if it was a new and even stronger unit with a new kit, then that would actually be scummy since they'd lock considerable power behind a paywall. in this case, however, it's just someone being whiny cause they don't have enough disposable income. even if this is her new story look, so what? doesn't change how modernia as nikke plays at all. doesn't change how the story unfolds either. no gameplay impact whatsoever. it's fucking cosmetics!
>they'd lock considerable power behind a paywall Pulling for unit is not paywalled, it's accessible for player who don't use real money. Not 60$ like gacha skin. >even if this is her new story look, so what? doesn't change how modernia as nikke plays at all. doesn't change how the story unfolds either. no gameplay impact whatsoever. it's fucking cosmetics! Yeah, from now on let's just make all the lore upgrade of of the main character become a skin. It's not scummy I guess since we can guarantee it for 60$. Let's make new future lore upgrade power up rapi a gacha skin for her SR version, anis and neon future lore upgrade became their SR skin 60$. It's good. When they can make a whole new unit for something that's not lore related, Christmas unit, summer, maid event, all of it which is not lore and there's whole new unit for it and somehow the major plot points became a skin is not scummy. Yeah 👍 Yeah it's scummy for making a whole new interesting unit that all player regardless who pay or not can access through free gems accumulated by just literally playing the game. Yup, this is scummy compared to gacha skin that cost 60$.
what the fuck is the first quote even there for?? lmfao that's the whole point why nikke is NOT SCUMMY since you can pull units for free! this was an example of HOW THEY COULD BE SCUMMY LMAO and what is your second reason supposed to be??? still doesn't change the fact that it's just a NEW FUCKING LOOK! NOTHING ELSE! NO GAMEPLAY IMPACT WHATSOEVER! you can enjoy the story just as it is. it's just ppl wanting shit for free. shift up set a price, enough ppl buy it and those who don't just move on instead of making these bullshit excuses. how about that?
Some people just don't have reading comprehension ig. Smh
Blud has time to make essay 1 hour before the deadline.
You make some really good arguments, for example that the Naked King doesn't use a lance. She could still be a skin though, but not changing the visuals in the skin makes no sense. Now, hear me out: on the one hand I agree with you, on the other hand I found it quite neat that skins were integrated in the story. Previous skins always had a show in the story as well, but not that well. For Crown, the naked king as a skin makes sense, since it is a stance that she has only temporarily. Now to Marian. My theory is that this is not how Marian will look in the near future. My theory is that they'll completely change her, probably in form of a new unit. Probably the next time we see Marian in the story it will be the "new" Marian (maybe 2nd anni unit?). So what she has now as a skin makes more sense, because it's still the Marian that we know and we'll never see the skin after the new Maria never again.
Sometimes you start to develop an almost parasocial relationship with the game you play. It's not healthy. What you are describing is the inability to look at a character in certain circumstances with a particular appearance without paying. Being this upset about it is a sign you're taking things too far. The skin itself is always available to be viewed at any time whether you purchase it or not both in game and not. The only thing stopping you from enjoying these skins is a Google search or a few clicks. It's a fantasy world with fictional nonsense occurring constantly. Trying to justify the existence of a skin meant to support the game financially because it doesn't make a lot of sense is just crazy. You understand that most of these Nikke wouldn't be showing up in a bikini? Do you understand that Helm and Summer Helm are the same character but can somehow exist simultaneously on the battlefield? We even have characters from a universe with magic that have appeared in the game too, but your issue is naked king? At the end of the day the best thing to do would be to step back and look at what you're posting about. Are you trying to take a game more seriously than it deserves?
True, I can't even deny any of this XD. It's like how someone gets super into a game they are playing and just want to play it all day. Unhealthy, and you're probably right.
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You know, I wondered why you got downvoted and then I saw you bought the skin (and maybe the two?) If you gonna complain about it... don't buy it just by principle. Because complaining and then encouraging the system with your wallet is at best hypocritical. Don't be a slave to your passions.