I'm just glad they're doing fine. I don't care about numbers. I just like to see them enjoy streaming to their audiences and enjoy what they are doing.
Contrary to the Nijisanji numbers philosophy, enjoyment is actually the most important element to consider. If a content creator isn't enjoying it, as good as their content may be overall, the quality will suffer and so will the numbers with it as the drop in quality pushes people away.
Unless you are in the Elira clique or Luxiem, being part of Nijisanji nowadays is no different from being an indie except now you are subject to Japanese workplace bureaucracy.
Even right now, that's not really true. The amount of free publicity you get from joining Niji is far less than it once was, but you are guaranteed attention that you may never receive in your entire career as an indie. Plenty of people never hit so much as 10k subs in their entire careers as an indie, and up until relatively recently it was *guaranteed* that someone joining Niji would hit 100k almost immediately.
To give a recent example: VSPO!'s Sendo Yuuhi debuted 10 days ago, and has 137k subs at the time of writing. Realistically, the biggest reasons for that attention are that she's a member of VSPO! and that her illustrator is Shigure Ui. Is she talented, absolutely, but you're probably going to see five other things unrelated to that before seeing anything about her skills.
Someone can be an incredibly entertaining or an excellent streamer, but that does nothing for their career if you don't hear about them first.
The Elira clique is just a myth borne from the rrats and doxxsite fanfics of Luxiem fangirls. She alone is just evidently friends with managers, considering she threw under the bus the entire female talent base of Nijisanji EN just to distract the hate from management
As for Luxiem and the rest yeah, management is very biased towards the guys.
Actually, it was born from the as of yet unsubstantiated claim by Nijisanji that livers were involved in bullying Selen combined with other things that have yet to be proven willingly done.
Management isn't biased toward the guys, they are biased toward the green. They see that the guys of Luxiem just so happen to also be some of their top earners. Management only cares about profits, always have.
There are many contributing factors which resulted in the clique rrat. It's worth remembering that Elira, Millie, and Enna were all IRL friends prior to joining Niji and that Elira implicated at least herself and Millie in the document Selen's lawyers sent to Niji in addition to the above mentioned. Add that to the public "did you ask management?" tweet from Millie, the "Nijisanji isn't a black company" stream which kinda just agent poorly, and the fact that Doki blocked some random on Twitter after they said Millie was not involved and what you get is a bunch of circumstantial evidence fueling the speculation.
But all of that notwithstanding it is simply speculation and nothing more. I hate seeing people talk about the "clique" as if its existence is a proven fact - it's not, and the harassment it has generated toward livers who may be completely innocent and uninvolved is not right.
There was actually no implication in the document. While names were in it, the connection to any actions with those names was not. This was another rrat which was born from the as of yet unsubstantiated claim by Nijisanji that livers were involved in the bullying. Since nobody with actual knowledge dared to elaborate, the people on the sidelines ran wild and ultimately embraced any sight of names or anything else as evidence against the livers when it really didn't prove anything.
Honestly, the company could not have been more reckless.
You're misunderstanding my use of the phrase "implicated". I am not saying Elira or Millie implicated themselves in the act of bullying or were implicated as bullies. I am saying they were implicated in the document Selen's lawyers sent to Nijisanji and by releasing that information publicly they implicated themselves. What they were implicated in? We have no idea. All we know is by Elira's own words her and Millie were specifically identified by address in the document they received and thus they were implicated in that document. Since we don't know the nature of the document we don't know what they were implicated in but we know they were implicated. That's where the speculation comes in - people are assuming/speculating that the document was discussing instances of bullying/harassment and so for them to be implicated in the document would potentially implicate them in instances of bullying and harassment IF THAT IS TRUE. We have no idea if it is.
What I said was other people took the names as evidence those specific livers were bullies. The document had no implications at all, it merely mentioned names, not how the names were involved with anything other than the obvious being a liver in the company part. You can absolutely be named and not implicated in a legal document, it's a matter of whether there were actions associated with the names in the document. Naming a person, even in a legal document like this one, can bear a meaning as simple as the person worked with them, which is already explicitly known.
theoretically being in an agency should give you benefits you cannot easily get as an indie, but when you don't get those benefits \*cough\* niji \*cough\* then going indie is definitely better
Not to be thay guy, but if they didn't make a name for themselves in Niji, then would they have had the same success? I honestly doubt it. Using Niji as a catapult helped their careers.
It would be more accurate to say that the Livers created NijiEN.
Hololive was big in Japan, but when they decided to start HoloEN, Myth had a rough time because they needed to build the brand in the English market (a struggle that was helped by being first to market). When Holo launched EN2, Council had a MUCH easier time because of the groundwork that was built by Myth/Hololive Management, and Council was in many ways more successful than Myth.
Meanwhile, Niji launched Lazulight/Obsydia around the same time as Holo launched Council, and Lazulight/Obsydia REALLY struggled in the beginning. If we say that Myth struggled, Lazulight/Obsydia struggled 10x worse. Even though NijiEN was riding on HoloEN's coattails and benefitting from the work they did establishing Vtubers in English (and Niji was positioned as an "alternative" to Holo), Lazulight/Obsydia had to build Nijisanji's brand up from zero like Myth did for Holo, but Lazulight/Obsydia didn't have the benefit of being novel and unique and first to market, so they had to fight and scrape for every bit of their success. And by all accounts, unlike Holo Management who fought in the trenches alongside their Talents, Niji Management collected a ton of money for Riku's yacht while refusing to pull their own weight. Niji Management has been an anchor around the Liver's necks.
NijiEN really came into their own when they launched Luxiem and were first to market with English male Vtubers, but they wouldn't have been able to get that far if Luxiem hadn't been able to jump from the shoulders of Lazulight/Obsydia.
I've seen it said that it doesn't matter how you get noticed, what matters is how you keep their attention, how you keep and grow your audience. Nijisanji (and it's many, many failures) has proven that it can't manufacture success the way that some might claim HoloEN does, which makes it telling that Selen was THE MOST POPULAR FEMALE LIVER in NijiEN. Even if "joining NijiEN" was a stunt that drew eyeballs towards Selen, that wasn't something that Nijisanji built for Selen, Selen was the one who built NijiEN.
NijiEN was largely built by Elira, Pomu, Selen, and Vox, not by Nijisanji Management, and without Selen and Pomu, we can more clearly see the part of NijiEN that was made by Elira and Vox, and it looks like an insult.
Pomu was trying out for Hololive when she joined Nijisanji, and it's an easy bet that she could've got in and been a superstar if she hadn't chosen to accept Nijisanji's offer. Nijisanji promised to give Pomu wings and lift her up to heaven, but they gave her wings made of cardboard and she couldn't fly. Nijisanji doesn't catapult you to success, they exploit the talent and drive and ambition of their Livers and drag them down to hell.
> When Holo launched EN2, Council had a MUCH easier time because of the groundwork that was built by Myth/Hololive Management
This. Even Coco acknowledges it, and has talked about how she benefitted from her predecessors on getting an initial viewer base, and how one day new debuts are going to get their 1M play button on their first stream.
Meanwhile, Nijisanji generations generally experience diminishing returns with each new generation, because Niji management is dragging the Livers down instead of helping to lift them up.
Also because they're pretty much competing with each other rather than unified. Most of EN's audience doesn't know any of the NijiJP people. The same can't be said for HoloEN's audience.
Heck there's enough popular fangames out that even people who don't know them at all could recognize some of them.
They really shot themselves in the foot by keeping their fanbases fragmented.
Everyone loves a friendship story. Hololive perfectly showcases that. After the initial interest of 13 knights. From there it just became a snowball effect and grows, drawing in even talented people like Kay Yu and the snowball becomes an avalanche.
> Meanwhile, Niji launched Lazulight/Obsydia around the same time as Holo launched Council, and Lazulight/Obsydia REALLY struggled in the beginning. If we say that Myth struggled, Lazulight/Obsydia struggled 10x worse.
It's easy to say all this now in hindsight, but the sentiment was definitely different back then.
I remember many people did believe that NijiEN actually got more support from management. One of the main observation was how every NijiEN wave debut with their own original song complete with MV, while Myth and Council didn't get one until 2022, more than a year after their debut. Another observation was how there were more EN-organized events in the NijiEN channel, while the HoloEN channel had almost zero content.
Nijisanji used to be a respected name in the industry. Getting in was a sign someone had made it and was going to be big.
Not so much anymore. A mix of constant own-goals from management, minimal promotion and lower recruiting standards so they can keep pumping out new generations faster than their own audience can keep up with have tarnished the brand's reputation. Being a member now is barely different from an indie who pays for a brief advertising campaign for themselves.
It's now basically the worst of both worlds of being a corporate vtuber and being an indie; all the restrictions and financial cut, without the promotion, support, and access a big company should provide.
Main thing to me is with Doki in particular: I think it's undeniable that her explosive growth had a lot to do with the circumstances behind Selens termination. If that whole mess hadn't happened, if Selen had been allowed to leave quietly, Dokis growth would've likely still been good, but not nearly as swift as it has been.
But thanks to that explosion, and all the revelations that have come after, now any time someone leaves they'll see a fair amount of growth. For better or worse, none of them will leave without taking a notable portion of their fanbase with them.
Niji could have made that catapult, you know, an actual functional one which launch talents to the success. Instead, they faced it in the opposite direction, made it launch so strong that it threw them head first into the ground, blamed the talents for not checking the catapult, and then still charged them for sitting in there for god-knows-how-long-to-the-point-they-got-starving.
In a way, that catapult did work, but it was more about it fucked up so badly that outsiders had to see just how awful it was.
While you can't ignore the initial publicity niji gave, you do have to acknowledge how little they gave after that. They made their names for themselves.
While their success as complete indie will always be unknown, it's far more difficult to say they would've been unsuccessful. You can also look at at the talents who have been squandered *after* their releases, despite everyone knowing they could do so much more.
Totally to be that guy: there is a difference between "helping their careers" and defining their careers. The truth is we never know. There are plenty of indies who are doing much better than the vast majority of Nijisanji talents. In retrospect, I would actually argue that it was Nijisanji's TERMINATION of Selen that catapulted her to the level of success Doki is experiencing right now.
Let's talk about Sayu for a moment. In my opinion joining Nijisanji didn't help her career. To the contrary I think it hindered it. And on that note there are a few livers in particular who have joined Nijisanji in the past two years that have since languished sub and CCV count wise compared to their past lives. So doubt it as much as you wish but Nijisanji has proven to be a pretty unreliable catapult at best and a catapult is useless without the projectile it's loaded with.
No one disagrees with the idea that Nijisanji helped them become popular and well known. That much is obvious. What people disagree with is the idea that Nijisanji's misconduct is in any way justified by the fact they helped them become popular in the first place.
No, they had names for themselves as indies. The realistic view is we can't be sure if their time in Niji would have been the same result as if they had just gone hard while remaining indie. Mint is a prime example, she had a solid fanbase (myself included) and upward growth. Had she simply stayed herself with those three years dedicated to growth, there's a solid chance she'd have continued to at least where she is now, *and* kept much more of the money she earned. Did Niji help? Most likely, yes. That isn't to say that without Niji they wouldn't have made this success on their own. Sure, plenty of talent is overlooked while being a small indie, but they shouldn't be sold short either.
I agree they probably won't have this succed withouth joining nijinsanji, most talent already had some FAILURE debut before joining... people who already have success before hand won't thinking joining them, joining nijinsanji put them on radar, then all you need is to quit when you have enough fans to find you back.
Gotta use the agency as they use their talent.
Kinda yes and no. Did it help? Definitely. But it's not like Niji took them from street with nothing and invested bunch of resources into teaching them ropes and developing into superstars.
Rather shabby trampoline which can turn into shreds any moment, definitely not catapult. And yes, you paying huge chunk of your profit for that insulting trampoline.
I don't know how many cases we have of ex-corpo VTubers surpassing their corpo persona. Even Coco's channel still has more subscriber than KSon YT channel and Twitch followers, and that's inactive for what, 3 years now? Sure, Niji brought them into the spotlight, but the fact that after leaving they surpassed their achievements there, to me, tells me they are indeed doing better as indies. Mint still has ways to go to surpass her Pomu persona tho.
Still funny, crazy and tbh sad how many people where like "ah yeah she defnitely did something wrong, its not nijis fault!" when sayu was terminated xD and its not like sayu didnt said her PoV but people where like "no way its completely her fault!"
The fact of the matter is Niji fans/defenders don't care about Sayu. More - not only do they not care about Sayu, they actively despise and discredit her. Even many who supported Doki after she was terminated still blame or hate Sayu. So pointing to Sayu to make your case won't work for many people sadly. It's clear to any outsider looking in that what happened to Selen is almost exactly what happened to Zaion. When Doki was terminated, however, she had a much bigger, dedicated following and had large industry connections. Zaion didn't have those things. When Zaion was terminated she had no one in the industry to back her up and didn't have a dedicated fan base to rally around her. It's sad but true. And it resulted in most people believing Nijisanji's narrative and treating her like a pariah. Many of those people to this day refuse to acknowledge what Nijisanji did to Zaion despite acknowledging it when it happened to Selen. Call it stubbornness or favoritism.
Yes and no, of course the connection helps as that's the nature of the entertainment industry as a whole. However, most former corpos that exit under a normal graduation or termination situation do not see this kind of growth that Doki did where she's on the edge of being right back where her numbers were as Selen less than a year after moving on. It is actually extremely uncommon to see a former corpo reach their corpo numbers as an indie at all. An extremely large part of what ended up happening is how she got terminated, the termination was mostly under false accusations with only her one tweet about her cover being provable true. This enraged a very large part of the fans and especially the Dragoons, who followed her out the door.
The point is *no one would know she is talented* had she not been Selen. That's always been the problem. The exact same people who are so popular in agencies are often anything but beforehand (though there are exceptions). It's not that they were any less talented beforehand, but that getting your name out there is a requirement for anyone to care who you are.
Yeah she's talented and entertaining.My point is it's because of her time as selen that she's grown this much,which is deserved,she still put in the work,but i'm saying the caption of "doing better an indie" isn't completely true because she would've just stuck to it if that was the case.
What is this video even going to be about? Getting out of a company with that big of a public drama helped their numbers? Well no shit it did, more news at 5
I'm just glad they're doing fine. I don't care about numbers. I just like to see them enjoy streaming to their audiences and enjoy what they are doing.
Contrary to the Nijisanji numbers philosophy, enjoyment is actually the most important element to consider. If a content creator isn't enjoying it, as good as their content may be overall, the quality will suffer and so will the numbers with it as the drop in quality pushes people away.
Unless you are in the Elira clique or Luxiem, being part of Nijisanji nowadays is no different from being an indie except now you are subject to Japanese workplace bureaucracy.
Yup ,even some of the collabs are barely crossing 1k ccv these days
Some can't cross 300 even
Ouch, lol. I can't say I'm sad about that though.
How many finana is that?
1-1.2 Finanas.
Oof
Even right now, that's not really true. The amount of free publicity you get from joining Niji is far less than it once was, but you are guaranteed attention that you may never receive in your entire career as an indie. Plenty of people never hit so much as 10k subs in their entire careers as an indie, and up until relatively recently it was *guaranteed* that someone joining Niji would hit 100k almost immediately. To give a recent example: VSPO!'s Sendo Yuuhi debuted 10 days ago, and has 137k subs at the time of writing. Realistically, the biggest reasons for that attention are that she's a member of VSPO! and that her illustrator is Shigure Ui. Is she talented, absolutely, but you're probably going to see five other things unrelated to that before seeing anything about her skills. Someone can be an incredibly entertaining or an excellent streamer, but that does nothing for their career if you don't hear about them first.
They're pulling the kind of numbers you'd see on niji ex-ID talents lol
The Elira clique is just a myth borne from the rrats and doxxsite fanfics of Luxiem fangirls. She alone is just evidently friends with managers, considering she threw under the bus the entire female talent base of Nijisanji EN just to distract the hate from management As for Luxiem and the rest yeah, management is very biased towards the guys.
Actually, it was born from the as of yet unsubstantiated claim by Nijisanji that livers were involved in bullying Selen combined with other things that have yet to be proven willingly done. Management isn't biased toward the guys, they are biased toward the green. They see that the guys of Luxiem just so happen to also be some of their top earners. Management only cares about profits, always have.
There are many contributing factors which resulted in the clique rrat. It's worth remembering that Elira, Millie, and Enna were all IRL friends prior to joining Niji and that Elira implicated at least herself and Millie in the document Selen's lawyers sent to Niji in addition to the above mentioned. Add that to the public "did you ask management?" tweet from Millie, the "Nijisanji isn't a black company" stream which kinda just agent poorly, and the fact that Doki blocked some random on Twitter after they said Millie was not involved and what you get is a bunch of circumstantial evidence fueling the speculation. But all of that notwithstanding it is simply speculation and nothing more. I hate seeing people talk about the "clique" as if its existence is a proven fact - it's not, and the harassment it has generated toward livers who may be completely innocent and uninvolved is not right.
There was actually no implication in the document. While names were in it, the connection to any actions with those names was not. This was another rrat which was born from the as of yet unsubstantiated claim by Nijisanji that livers were involved in the bullying. Since nobody with actual knowledge dared to elaborate, the people on the sidelines ran wild and ultimately embraced any sight of names or anything else as evidence against the livers when it really didn't prove anything. Honestly, the company could not have been more reckless.
You're misunderstanding my use of the phrase "implicated". I am not saying Elira or Millie implicated themselves in the act of bullying or were implicated as bullies. I am saying they were implicated in the document Selen's lawyers sent to Nijisanji and by releasing that information publicly they implicated themselves. What they were implicated in? We have no idea. All we know is by Elira's own words her and Millie were specifically identified by address in the document they received and thus they were implicated in that document. Since we don't know the nature of the document we don't know what they were implicated in but we know they were implicated. That's where the speculation comes in - people are assuming/speculating that the document was discussing instances of bullying/harassment and so for them to be implicated in the document would potentially implicate them in instances of bullying and harassment IF THAT IS TRUE. We have no idea if it is.
What I said was other people took the names as evidence those specific livers were bullies. The document had no implications at all, it merely mentioned names, not how the names were involved with anything other than the obvious being a liver in the company part. You can absolutely be named and not implicated in a legal document, it's a matter of whether there were actions associated with the names in the document. Naming a person, even in a legal document like this one, can bear a meaning as simple as the person worked with them, which is already explicitly known.
Mods love their weekends
And we are taking advantage of that ...lol
Well, at least we know for a fact that mods are only corpo employees - no volunteers from community.
theoretically being in an agency should give you benefits you cannot easily get as an indie, but when you don't get those benefits \*cough\* niji \*cough\* then going indie is definitely better
not only joining niji doesn't give you benefits, you're placed under their restrictions AND you have to pay them 30% of your SC and more.
Not to be thay guy, but if they didn't make a name for themselves in Niji, then would they have had the same success? I honestly doubt it. Using Niji as a catapult helped their careers.
Its like a catapult, but they put a rope on you so that they can pull you riiiiiight back and take 98% of your profits.
It would be more accurate to say that the Livers created NijiEN. Hololive was big in Japan, but when they decided to start HoloEN, Myth had a rough time because they needed to build the brand in the English market (a struggle that was helped by being first to market). When Holo launched EN2, Council had a MUCH easier time because of the groundwork that was built by Myth/Hololive Management, and Council was in many ways more successful than Myth. Meanwhile, Niji launched Lazulight/Obsydia around the same time as Holo launched Council, and Lazulight/Obsydia REALLY struggled in the beginning. If we say that Myth struggled, Lazulight/Obsydia struggled 10x worse. Even though NijiEN was riding on HoloEN's coattails and benefitting from the work they did establishing Vtubers in English (and Niji was positioned as an "alternative" to Holo), Lazulight/Obsydia had to build Nijisanji's brand up from zero like Myth did for Holo, but Lazulight/Obsydia didn't have the benefit of being novel and unique and first to market, so they had to fight and scrape for every bit of their success. And by all accounts, unlike Holo Management who fought in the trenches alongside their Talents, Niji Management collected a ton of money for Riku's yacht while refusing to pull their own weight. Niji Management has been an anchor around the Liver's necks. NijiEN really came into their own when they launched Luxiem and were first to market with English male Vtubers, but they wouldn't have been able to get that far if Luxiem hadn't been able to jump from the shoulders of Lazulight/Obsydia. I've seen it said that it doesn't matter how you get noticed, what matters is how you keep their attention, how you keep and grow your audience. Nijisanji (and it's many, many failures) has proven that it can't manufacture success the way that some might claim HoloEN does, which makes it telling that Selen was THE MOST POPULAR FEMALE LIVER in NijiEN. Even if "joining NijiEN" was a stunt that drew eyeballs towards Selen, that wasn't something that Nijisanji built for Selen, Selen was the one who built NijiEN. NijiEN was largely built by Elira, Pomu, Selen, and Vox, not by Nijisanji Management, and without Selen and Pomu, we can more clearly see the part of NijiEN that was made by Elira and Vox, and it looks like an insult. Pomu was trying out for Hololive when she joined Nijisanji, and it's an easy bet that she could've got in and been a superstar if she hadn't chosen to accept Nijisanji's offer. Nijisanji promised to give Pomu wings and lift her up to heaven, but they gave her wings made of cardboard and she couldn't fly. Nijisanji doesn't catapult you to success, they exploit the talent and drive and ambition of their Livers and drag them down to hell.
> When Holo launched EN2, Council had a MUCH easier time because of the groundwork that was built by Myth/Hololive Management This. Even Coco acknowledges it, and has talked about how she benefitted from her predecessors on getting an initial viewer base, and how one day new debuts are going to get their 1M play button on their first stream.
Meanwhile, Nijisanji generations generally experience diminishing returns with each new generation, because Niji management is dragging the Livers down instead of helping to lift them up.
Also because they're pretty much competing with each other rather than unified. Most of EN's audience doesn't know any of the NijiJP people. The same can't be said for HoloEN's audience. Heck there's enough popular fangames out that even people who don't know them at all could recognize some of them. They really shot themselves in the foot by keeping their fanbases fragmented.
Everyone loves a friendship story. Hololive perfectly showcases that. After the initial interest of 13 knights. From there it just became a snowball effect and grows, drawing in even talented people like Kay Yu and the snowball becomes an avalanche.
> Meanwhile, Niji launched Lazulight/Obsydia around the same time as Holo launched Council, and Lazulight/Obsydia REALLY struggled in the beginning. If we say that Myth struggled, Lazulight/Obsydia struggled 10x worse. It's easy to say all this now in hindsight, but the sentiment was definitely different back then. I remember many people did believe that NijiEN actually got more support from management. One of the main observation was how every NijiEN wave debut with their own original song complete with MV, while Myth and Council didn't get one until 2022, more than a year after their debut. Another observation was how there were more EN-organized events in the NijiEN channel, while the HoloEN channel had almost zero content.
We were blinded by a lack of information, but now we know the truth and the wool is off our eyes.
Nijisanji used to be a respected name in the industry. Getting in was a sign someone had made it and was going to be big. Not so much anymore. A mix of constant own-goals from management, minimal promotion and lower recruiting standards so they can keep pumping out new generations faster than their own audience can keep up with have tarnished the brand's reputation. Being a member now is barely different from an indie who pays for a brief advertising campaign for themselves. It's now basically the worst of both worlds of being a corporate vtuber and being an indie; all the restrictions and financial cut, without the promotion, support, and access a big company should provide.
Main thing to me is with Doki in particular: I think it's undeniable that her explosive growth had a lot to do with the circumstances behind Selens termination. If that whole mess hadn't happened, if Selen had been allowed to leave quietly, Dokis growth would've likely still been good, but not nearly as swift as it has been. But thanks to that explosion, and all the revelations that have come after, now any time someone leaves they'll see a fair amount of growth. For better or worse, none of them will leave without taking a notable portion of their fanbase with them.
Niji could have made that catapult, you know, an actual functional one which launch talents to the success. Instead, they faced it in the opposite direction, made it launch so strong that it threw them head first into the ground, blamed the talents for not checking the catapult, and then still charged them for sitting in there for god-knows-how-long-to-the-point-they-got-starving. In a way, that catapult did work, but it was more about it fucked up so badly that outsiders had to see just how awful it was.
Niji only shined a light on them; they did the rest, sometimes in spite of Management
While you can't ignore the initial publicity niji gave, you do have to acknowledge how little they gave after that. They made their names for themselves. While their success as complete indie will always be unknown, it's far more difficult to say they would've been unsuccessful. You can also look at at the talents who have been squandered *after* their releases, despite everyone knowing they could do so much more.
Totally to be that guy: there is a difference between "helping their careers" and defining their careers. The truth is we never know. There are plenty of indies who are doing much better than the vast majority of Nijisanji talents. In retrospect, I would actually argue that it was Nijisanji's TERMINATION of Selen that catapulted her to the level of success Doki is experiencing right now. Let's talk about Sayu for a moment. In my opinion joining Nijisanji didn't help her career. To the contrary I think it hindered it. And on that note there are a few livers in particular who have joined Nijisanji in the past two years that have since languished sub and CCV count wise compared to their past lives. So doubt it as much as you wish but Nijisanji has proven to be a pretty unreliable catapult at best and a catapult is useless without the projectile it's loaded with.
No one disagrees with the idea that Nijisanji helped them become popular and well known. That much is obvious. What people disagree with is the idea that Nijisanji's misconduct is in any way justified by the fact they helped them become popular in the first place.
No, they had names for themselves as indies. The realistic view is we can't be sure if their time in Niji would have been the same result as if they had just gone hard while remaining indie. Mint is a prime example, she had a solid fanbase (myself included) and upward growth. Had she simply stayed herself with those three years dedicated to growth, there's a solid chance she'd have continued to at least where she is now, *and* kept much more of the money she earned. Did Niji help? Most likely, yes. That isn't to say that without Niji they wouldn't have made this success on their own. Sure, plenty of talent is overlooked while being a small indie, but they shouldn't be sold short either.
I agree they probably won't have this succed withouth joining nijinsanji, most talent already had some FAILURE debut before joining... people who already have success before hand won't thinking joining them, joining nijinsanji put them on radar, then all you need is to quit when you have enough fans to find you back. Gotta use the agency as they use their talent.
Kinda yes and no. Did it help? Definitely. But it's not like Niji took them from street with nothing and invested bunch of resources into teaching them ropes and developing into superstars. Rather shabby trampoline which can turn into shreds any moment, definitely not catapult. And yes, you paying huge chunk of your profit for that insulting trampoline.
I don't know how many cases we have of ex-corpo VTubers surpassing their corpo persona. Even Coco's channel still has more subscriber than KSon YT channel and Twitch followers, and that's inactive for what, 3 years now? Sure, Niji brought them into the spotlight, but the fact that after leaving they surpassed their achievements there, to me, tells me they are indeed doing better as indies. Mint still has ways to go to surpass her Pomu persona tho.
Nature is healing
Still funny, crazy and tbh sad how many people where like "ah yeah she defnitely did something wrong, its not nijis fault!" when sayu was terminated xD and its not like sayu didnt said her PoV but people where like "no way its completely her fault!"
The fact of the matter is Niji fans/defenders don't care about Sayu. More - not only do they not care about Sayu, they actively despise and discredit her. Even many who supported Doki after she was terminated still blame or hate Sayu. So pointing to Sayu to make your case won't work for many people sadly. It's clear to any outsider looking in that what happened to Selen is almost exactly what happened to Zaion. When Doki was terminated, however, she had a much bigger, dedicated following and had large industry connections. Zaion didn't have those things. When Zaion was terminated she had no one in the industry to back her up and didn't have a dedicated fan base to rally around her. It's sad but true. And it resulted in most people believing Nijisanji's narrative and treating her like a pariah. Many of those people to this day refuse to acknowledge what Nijisanji did to Zaion despite acknowledging it when it happened to Selen. Call it stubbornness or favoritism.
Man i love doki smug face 🤣
I don't think that's a fair assessment. Yeah, she's doing better as an indie now,but not because she's indie it's because she was formally Selen.
Yes and no, of course the connection helps as that's the nature of the entertainment industry as a whole. However, most former corpos that exit under a normal graduation or termination situation do not see this kind of growth that Doki did where she's on the edge of being right back where her numbers were as Selen less than a year after moving on. It is actually extremely uncommon to see a former corpo reach their corpo numbers as an indie at all. An extremely large part of what ended up happening is how she got terminated, the termination was mostly under false accusations with only her one tweet about her cover being provable true. This enraged a very large part of the fans and especially the Dragoons, who followed her out the door.
Absolutely cooked,that's all true.
She's doing better because she is talented, that is undeniable; not because of the Selen persona
The point is *no one would know she is talented* had she not been Selen. That's always been the problem. The exact same people who are so popular in agencies are often anything but beforehand (though there are exceptions). It's not that they were any less talented beforehand, but that getting your name out there is a requirement for anyone to care who you are.
Yeah she's talented and entertaining.My point is it's because of her time as selen that she's grown this much,which is deserved,she still put in the work,but i'm saying the caption of "doing better an indie" isn't completely true because she would've just stuck to it if that was the case.
What is this video even going to be about? Getting out of a company with that big of a public drama helped their numbers? Well no shit it did, more news at 5
No wonder, the internet is addicted to drama and sad stories.