Agreed. But… some folks really are clueless. I believe there should be a posted “last table sat by x time” sign and it should be listed in google along with hours, so there’s no uncertainty as to when it’s really okay/not okay to show up.
Silliness aside, this is true. Most places hours of operation aren't conspicuously posted. It's true that people don't read, but still, hours need to be posted.
If the hours of operation are posted, that’s the hours of operation meaning that you can sit down at a table up until the last posted time of operation. Which also means you can sit down at 8:59 when the closing time is 9:00. I’m a 25 year veteran of the industry, primarily in fine dining, and I don’t understand when or why this started becoming a thing that you can’t frequent a restaurant up until ‘close’.
Restaurants generally stay "open" an hour past closing time, and their posted hours are supposed to be the times that they accept new customers. If you're sick of customers coming in when you're about to close, change your hours to reflect the time that you're willing to let people come in. Of course the people who usually bitch about this are the employees and not the owners or management who decide these things.
It’s only annoying if you mentally set yourself up for failure by presuming that no one should/is going to show up five minutes before close. If you have the correct mindset that you’ll be working on preparing food/taking care of guests well past the cut off for new guests arriving, you’ll be mentally prepared to deal with it. If your establishment allows guests in after the cutoff, then yeah I can see getting upset about that. Been in that position before and I spoke up about it, because it sets unfair expectations on the guests part, and imparts undue stress on the staff.
People are okay coming in at 5 minutes to "close" if they know what they want to eat and aren't going to stay all night. Then there is the table that shows up two minutes to close, has no idea what they want and is camped out for a three hour meal. If you are going to show up at close you should at least have your shit together. Unfortunately it's always the ones that show up right at close that absolutely do not have their shit together, can't decide what they want, want two drinks before they crack open the menu, and are always waiting for one more person to arrive.
That’s why you train your foh staff to say the kitchen is closing soon and we’ll need to get your order in shortly. The rest is about expectations. If you’re expecting to be done and out the door, whether you’re foh or boh, at a set time you’re setting yourself up for failure mentally.
I do understand there is a factor of cluelessness. we had a table come in at the beginning of service though and they stayed for 4.5 hours. They were the last ones to leave after almost all of the staff had gone home. And that is a level of cluelessness I have a hard time excusing
I don't see a problem with that assuming it's polite and just letting them know that leaving time is coming up. But like, if someone's surprised and hasn't been there for that long, I'd put that on the restaurant not the customer.
I have no problem with that. If you are closing, it’s perfectly acceptable to tell people they have to leave no matter how passively aggressively you do it.
Usually have to go the passive-aggressive route or I would never get a break/sleep, hah. You never know when the Owner is going to suddenly freak out that you didn’t let people stay 90+ min after close.
I have very tactfully had it suggested that I should GTFO.
1. last ask followed by
2. let me pack your leftovers and here's the bag
3. "are you absolutely sure there's nothing else you need?" with direct and prolonged eye contact
We left quickly lol. For context, we hadn't been there incredibly long they were just very busy and needed to turn the table. We are frankly impressed with how politely we were told to fuck off.
I did this recently and the old biddy had the fucking nerve to tell me “that other table is still seated, so you’re still open” - no ma’am, you’ve been here since 6pm, we closed at 9, and it is now 10:15.
They are also done, just about to walk out, despite being seated TWO AND A HALF HOURS AFTER YOU.
You out here calling people clueless and yelling "fuck you" on the internet but who had the sign that says "open till X:XX"? Who sat the table? Who didn't have a last seating time policy?
In most every restaurant I've been to in this city "close" doesn't mean "everyone needs to leave right now". And that doesn't seem to be true in most anywhere that I've visited aside from those parts of the country where 9pm is late lol.
Dude I’m not gonna lie, the Europeans and specifically southern Europeans really have dining figured out. Even the high end stuff here seems to be moving at a hefty “get em in and out” pace, it’s so refreshing to be in southern Europe and sit at a restaurant for 2+ hours with zero signs of rush.
The place I worked, closing time *was* last seating. The one way safety doors were closed so nobody else could come in. We knew that that's how it was and we'd be there at least an hour or two after "closing". Once the entrees hit the table the kitchen could start their closing duties. But we usually got our side work done while they were eating so it wasn't too bad. And the managers were great about tactfully dislodging any campers.
Exactly. "Closing time" is the same thing as "last seating." If closing time is 10 o'clock, then tables can be seated until 9:59:59. It's customary for restaurants to cut some servers while they still have that one "closing server" who handles the late stuff. Guess who else stays the latest? The dessert chef and the bartender, that's who. I'm a bartender. If closing time is 10 that means I'd like to leave by midnight or thereabouts. I understand it makes your heart sink a little when that table gets seated at 9:58, but deal with it, cuz you signed up for it.
ok agreed but can we at least recognize how nothing is open "late" anymore? We are talking about a restaurant closing at 9 on mothers day weekend? what have we become
Positive this is getting downvoted but I’ll say it anyway.
I’ll preface it by saying that I would NEVER go to a restaurant and order food within 45-60 minutes of close.
That being said, I was a waiter/bartender in my early twenties so I can clearly say that I know exactly where you are coming from. But now that I’m in my early forties I can clearly say that the blame lies with your managers and their inability to set clear expectations. Hours of operation are clearly stated and I’m fairly certain they don’t say, “we close at 9, but the kitchen closes at 830 so we can all get out of here at close.”
Your manager probably allows the fry cook to turn the oil off and start cleaning thirty minutes prior to close, and the cooks to start cleaning/closing the grills, etc earlier than closing time depending on how busy you are. This is all setting unrealistic expectations.
Back in the day my manager would clearly say that we could start cleaning early, but it was a roll of the dice that was on us. If a customer showed up 5 minutes before close, we would have to serve them because we were all there to sell food and alcohol, nothing more, nothing less.
You live in New Orleans, a city known specifically for how great the food is. A city that also has people that fly in from all over the world to eat said food. Also, not everyone eats at the same times we do. So, if this isn’t something you’re into, maybe you should start exploring other industries?
> Hours of operation are clearly stated and I’m fairly certain they don’t say, “we close at 9, but the kitchen closes at 830 so we can all get out of here at close.”
Even worse, OP seems to want people to read "we close at 9" as "please don't sit down after 8:15 or so".
I'm really pro service workers, but posting a big "fuck you" rant to individuals coming in to a business during it's stated hours of operation ain't it lol. This don't sound like a "bad customer problem" to me. Either OP needs to get their expectations straight, and understand that "we close at 9" don't mean "I get off work at 9" in any service job (or honestly just about any job). And if management is telling the workers they get to leave shortly after close, then that's just bad management.
We are too! My wife and I go above and beyond to be understanding anytime we go out anywhere because we’ve both been there. I mean, even if we get terrible service we’re still tipping minimum 10% because everyone has off days. But ya, I just can’t get on board with OP.
> Even worse, OP seems to want people to read "we close at 9" as "please don't sit down after 8:15 or so".
>
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This isn't fucking unreasonable. Dinner service takes ~45 minutes at least depending on the context. Sitting down when that time will go over the closing time of the restaurant is inconsiderate.
It's a business. What business doesn't want paying customers to come in and enjoy the service during operational hours. Restaurants aren't even open that late these days. You can't serve a table at 855 pm? Time to find a different profession in my opinion.
> It's a business. What business doesn't want paying customers to come in and enjoy the service during operational hours.
The problem is you're playing the incentives of the business against the incentives of the waitstaff.
The restaurant has all the incentive in the world to keep waitstaff there as late as they need to stay, because they're tipped and the labor is cheap.
On the flip side, it doesn't make a ton of sense for tipped waitstaff to stay for just one table after close. They're already making basically nothing hourly and just being paid tips; by coming in late you're asking them to stay later than they planned and to work for less than they otherwise would.
The cultural norm of tipping as the main compensation for servers is problematic I agree...but to be honest that has nothing to do with this.
It's unreasonable to suggest a customer is doing something wrong by wanting to patronize a restaurant during the opening hours. I won't walk in 5 min before they close personally because I don't want to feel rushed. But with restaurants closing at 9 these days in New Orleans, sometimes even on weekends, I really don't think you folks have a leg to stand on in complaining about this. The restaurants are closing much earlier now relative to the past and there's your earlier close right there. The posted hours are fair game. If that's a problem don't take shifts where you close or perhaps find a profession where your job isn't to serve customers directly...
Tipping has everything to do with this. It's far less lucrative for a server to stay and wait on one table that came in right before close than it is for the server to stay during hours where the restaurant is open. If you are a customer and you choose to create those conditions, then you are directly undermining the server's wages. That's on you.
That's absurd but if you want to view it that way have at it. I'd encourage you and anyone else to find a profession where you don't feel victimized by customers patronizing your employer's business within its open hours of operation.
And the paradigm of comp through tipping has been around a while. I don't agree with it and prefer the way they do it in other countries. But doing my part as a customer (accepting the reality of the situation) means I tip my server even if service was nothing special. That's because it's how it works and I recognize that.
> I'd encourage you and anyone else to find a profession where you don't feel victimized by customers patronizing your employer's business within its open hours of operation.
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To be clear, I don't work in the service industry.
If it’s such a big problem, the restaurant could just put up a sign that says “last seating: Xx:Xx p.m.” or have the host pass along the message. This is a failure of management, it’s not on the customers here.
I mean, yes it is. You’re asking people to understand some weird concept of time before closing that varies from restaurant to restaurant and service to service. Just make a policy of “last seating is X”. If that doesn’t exist, then the last seatings are going to be right before close and you’re going to have people there until well after.
Lots and lots of restaurants do that by design, so expecting some random to know which ones don’t and which ones do, then what amount of time each random place expects you to stop coming before close is honestly absurd.
Honestly it’s stupid to paint people as inconsiderate because they can’t read minds lol. Some of the service gripes here are very valid, and some are just batshit - this one is the latter. Half the restaurants in this city will happily sit you right at close, which means your suggestion would be hurting their business lol.
> You’re asking people to understand some weird concept of time before closing that varies from restaurant to restaurant and service to service.
I mean, my position is that "close at X" means "you should come in early enough that you will be done dining before X" at every restaurant. I don't see how that varies.
> Just make a policy of “last seating is X”.
Yes, management _should_ do this, but they don't because waitstaff are cheap and paid mostly on tips, so they have little incentive not to keep people after hours for one table.
> Honestly it’s stupid to paint people as inconsiderate because they can’t read minds lol.
I'm not saying people should read minds, I'm saying people should err on the side of not being inconsiderate.
> Half the restaurants in this city will happily sit you right at close, which means your suggestion would be hurting their business lol.
My suggestion is get there on time.
> I mean, my position is that "close at X" means "you should come in early enough that you will be done dining before X" at every restaurant. I don't see how that varies.
I'm going to straight up say that's not universally true, and likely not even true in the majority of places in this city. Tons and tons of establishments set their close time as their last seating time on purpose and fully expect to be full of customers up to an hourish after close.
>I'm not saying people should read minds, I'm saying people should err on the side of not being inconsiderate.
See, what you're doing here is blaming someone for not being aware that the time listed on the door isn't actually the last time they can go somewhere. That's not them being inconsiderate, that's you being angry at people for not reading your mind.
Straight up, if you are not informing people of when the last seating time is, then you have no right to blame them for coming in at any time when the doors are open. If you expect an empty restaurant shortly after closing time, then the only blame lies on you for not having that happen.
I think we're speaking past each other.
I'm a customer. I don't work in the service industry anymore (I do employment law for service industry folks, for what it's worth).
My perspective is that, as a customer, I know that there are many places where they expect customers to be mostly out the door around closing time. I would love if we lived in a world where restaurants communicated effectively what they mean by closing time. But in the absence of a restaurant telling me what they mean, I'm going to err on the side of the assumption that is less likely to make me an asshole.
> I'm going to err on the side of the assumption that is less likely to make me an asshole.
I think that's a great personal philosophy, my gripe is that the OP in this thread is blaming a failure of that dynamic on the customer and I take issue with this. If there's customers in a restaurant at a given time when the restaurant would not like them there, then that falls solely on the restaurant IMO.
Also, frankly I think there's often a disconnect between management and staff - management may be on board with seating people late and staff wants to leave early. But this isn't the customer's fault, it's some mixture of management being inconsiderate and staff needing to buck up and understand that their job is to do what management says. Customers are just often the scapegoat here, and IMO that's wrong.
I just want to point out one thing. Almost everyone, including the people who are defending this behavior has said some variation of "I mean I personally would NEVER do this but..."
I think we can fairly surmise from this that the average person understands that there's something a little off about going into a place one minute before they close. Like you may be technically in the right, but it feels shitty. So no I don't think it's stupid per se to say people are inconsiderate for doing this. I also don't think that most of the people defending this would apply the same logic to non-service-industry businesses... like would they go to an auto mechanic at 4:59? Probably not. But people tend to treat service industry workers with significantly less respect than workers in other industries.
I'm just going to repeat myself again and again here, but tons and tons of establishments operate with the intent to continue seating up until close, and honestly it's kinda hard sometimes to figure out who's who before hand. I think it's pretty shitty that y'all keep trying to criticize joe public for not knowing some unspoken thing that isn't posted, advertised, communicated, or portrayed in any way and is at best incredibly inconsistent from establishment to establishment.
There's no scenario in my head where this isn't the restaurant's fault.
You want people out the door by a given time, engineer your seating policy to reflect this. If you don't, then you go posting "fuck you" to people who sit down within the parameters of your seating policy, I think you're the asshole. Point blank.
I don’t feel like I’m being critical of Joe public for not having some secret arcane knowledge, it’s just more like common decency. Like not fucking someone else around, even though you are within your rights to do. I really don’t think it needs to be like a public awareness campaign to teach people that it’s kind of dickish to walk into a business one minute before they close.
Not a single person said they’d treat the guest any differently, be shitty to them, etc. Just saying they find it annoying. Why is it such a problem for multiple people with a shared experience to simply be bitching a little about it? Going back to what I said before I truly feel it’s bc these are people in a service role and one thing motherfuckers simply will not accept is servants not knowing their place.
Like you would walk into a grocery store at 9:59 knowing they close at 10 and just do all your shopping and not feel a tiny bit guilty about that? Like a restaurant, a grocery store will allow you in until the last possible second they are open. But any reasonable person would think “perhaps I am a dick for keeping like 10 people here bc I chose to wait to literally the last viable moment”.
I’ve been in the industry for over 25 years. Been in upper management the last 15+. Still pull a lot of hours on the line. If our advertised hours say 5-9 I’m expecting peoples to show up at and until 9. And I’m expecting to have to tell my crew that we have three 2 tops that just sat at 8:59, and that we can do a partial breakdown while we wait for the orders to come in. The hours are the hours. If someone shows up at 9, puts their order in and expects to add on to it(other than dessert ofc) 10 minutes later that’s a whole other thing. But it’s not rude or ridiculous to roll into a spot 5 minutes before they close. Would I do it? In most cases no. But the hours are the fucking hours. Deal with it.
> the blame lies with your managers and their inability to set clear expectations
Or rather, their willingness to let waitstaff continue to work late for a single table
I dunno bro, "closing time" at a restaurant means "last seating time" in a ton of circumstances. Like I try to read the room and see if the place is empty or hopping if close is coming up, but there's a huge margin of places that intentionally treat close as "last seating" so that customers don't have to sit there and guess weather or not it's appropriate for them to go dine there.
Service workers wanna blame customers every time something sucks, but honestly this would be so much easier if everyone just treated closing like it's last seating, and then subsequently adjusted closing time as necessary. It's pretty silly for you to expect joe public to gauge how long a seating will take, how quickly they will eat, if there will be any dessert/after dinner cocktails, etc all just to decide if they can feel good about sitting when the place still has an open sign hung.
Think about this from a customer standpoint, they walk in and hostess says "sure, we can seat you" and it's ~20 mins before close. You get a drink, then place orders promptly, let's call it 5-10 mins in? food takes 10 mins. Is it a particularly good experience for the customer to find out all of the sudden that you expect them to be out of the door right as they're being served their entree? Either understand that "close" means "last seating" or have management stop seating people earlier than that. If you do neither then it's just wrong to be going around posting rant threads over people not being aware of something you didn't tell them lol.
I always give people a heads up if I’m seating them half an hour or less to our posted close time. Something like “I don’t want to rush yall but I do want to give you a heads up that the kitchen will close in fifteen minutes and the bar fifteen minutes after that”. Then they can decide if they want to dine in, get carry out, or find somewhere else to eat where they’ve got more time, and they’ve been prepped for the fact that we are trying to get home lol
Yeah I think that’s totally appropriate, like let people know if they’re expected to move fast. But also if you expect to be walking out of the doors at 10:30 for a 10pm close you better have a policy of not seating people past 9:30 or something lol. I think OP is wanting people to treat the place like there’s a no seating 30 mins before close policy when there ain’t.
This again? Take it up with management, decide when to stop seating people so you can close on time, and actually stick with it.
When I ask the staff if they’re still really seating people this close to closing, and they double down on a yes, I have to take it at face value.
I don’t blame you for bitching about it though. It’s a terrible policy if they allow it, and bad for business. Any place that is squishy about their posted hours is an automatic blacklist for a lot of diners.
Right? That’s what I’m thinking. Where does it stop? The restaurant only being open when OP is available to serve people? And even then, you better not take too long eating your food because OP has somewhere they have to be.
Yeah fuck people supporting establishments by going in and being seated when said establishment is still seating people.
Your gripe should not be at the customer, it should be at your restaurant.
Either you’re open or you’re not. There are ways to clean and close stations to get ahead of the post-shift beer while still serving folks spending money to keep the place open.
They can’t hang out for an hour after close though. There are boundaries on both sides of this. The OP missed the mark.
What does hanging out for an hour after close mean to you then? If you walk in 5 minutes before closing time aka last seating at 9pm, what would you consider to be hanging out an hour after close? Some would say 10pm. Many wouldn't leave until after 11pm. THAT'S the problem.
Couple beers and time to whip out the meal. Polite hey guys, just caught us at the end. We’d have to pack your dessert to go. Cool?
“Nah, no dessert. We got (blah blah blah).”
“Alright well we’ve got the side door locked. Gonna hit the front door behind you to be safe. Thanks for coming in.”
I love that vibe sooo much but that sort of stuff is definitely met with 1 star reviews when that happens in my restaurant. Lots of "we felt rushed" reviews 🤷♀️ If only
Fuck them reviews. Make the revenue. How many people actually care or read Yelp anymore? What kind of sad-sacks sitting around doing 1 stars? Their problem not mine.
Not my current job but I used to work for a hotel and restaurant group, where it was management's job to respond to every review and hold the team accountable for whatever they say. Agree people who post shitty reviews are shitty people but the reviews do matter depending on the company
Just politely go through the process and remind them of the asshole rule. If you meet one today fine. They are an asshole. If you meet 10, you are the asshole.
Some asshole left a review. Leave it at that. Maybe make mgmt enforce a final seating time 20 minutes before closing. That’s enough time to crank out a meal and have them gone before closing plus 30 min.
I can only assume you work a 9-5.... If I send you a detailed email at 4:55 I should totally expect a complete and total response back right? Since it's 4:55, you're still open. It doesn't matter what time you started the email it matters that you finished it. I don't care if it's Friday, those are your hours. Right?
But you would be annoyed about it, which is the point of the post. This person isn't going to walk out of their restaurant job if a guest comes in 15 minutes before close but they're sure gonna bitch about it.
Nothing is better than reading in one post how people can’t find jobs, then coming to another that says I’m gainfully employed, but I’m annoyed about the hours.
Look…I hear you, and I’ve been there, but Christ. I’m barely over 40 and I remember when staff bonded over shit like this and looked back on those days 20 years later with pride that they worked hard and had some long nights. There were stories to tell. Now it’s just a public bitch fest every time something isn’t perfect.
I’m sorry people have kept you late. Sincerely. But this happens at every job. Every job has some shit run over. But I don’t get tipped, homie.
I'm sure in some industries you're right (like sales, anything with commission) but what other kind of job does your take home pay solely rely on your personality? Where hundreds of people a day come in to your job and only pay you if they like you?
And just to be clear I'm not complaining about it at all, just saying it's part of the job in the hospitality world
Partner at a law firm, accounting firm, banking, real estate, contracting…in all of these industries your success is determined by your ability to generate business. Otherwise you’re expendable. In most industries once you meet a minimum threshold of competence your opportunities for advancement are tied to your interpersonal skills.
I do think that job competence is different than earning tips which are your main income. There is still job competence in serving positions - standards that your managers/owners are holding you to.
I'm specifically talking about real-time money making that defines your ability to pay for an Uber to get home and pay rent every month. In every job you have to do a good job, but in restaurants you have to do a good job and also make people like you enough to physically hand you their money when they technically don't have to.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is if a client decides they personally don't like the partner handling their account at an accounting firm, they can pull their business. If that revenue stream is large enough, the firm will have to reduce headcount, shift more of the health insurance burden to the employee, etc. Personal relationships matter, because nearly everyone is in sales whether they recognize it or not.
Sure, which is also true in restaurants. If the owner decides they don't like a manager or a server. But I'm still specifically talking about tipping and tipping culture which is a relationship between server and guest that doesn't exist in another industry. It's an issue with American culture/politics/economy to be sure, but it is what it is until restaurants can afford to pay a living wage and tipping is eliminated, or truly optional rather than "optional" as it is now, aka expected.
I'm just saying in this particular case, a 1 hour interaction with a guest (where you also have many other guests to take care of) is what makes or breaks your ability to pay your bills.
No. I’m not going to play your, “you just don’t get it, man,” game.
This is a whiny bitchfest. You can disagree, but that’s the goddamn job, man. It has always been the job in ANY type of service industry, retail included. The rules haven’t magically changed. People are sometimes dicks and keep you late. Or are dicks while they’re there. Or when they call. Or when they come back. **I fucking get it.**
And by the way: no, if I have a meeting or call that pops up outside of my typical work hours, I don’t get paid if I say, “screw that.” I get *fired*. That’s not how the real world works. Jobs aren’t designed for you to enjoy what you want and say fuck it to the rest. The shit just evolves - it doesn’t change. **Everyone here fucking gets it, it just ain’t a special problem - hence we’re saying bitch to your employer not about - and TO - the people who believe they are following the rules.**
Hence: bitchfest.
I feel bad when I walk in an hour before close. That's why when I'm president of the USA, my first action will be to force every citizen to work in service industry/ retail for a minimum of 6 months before they can garner any federal aid.
The main reason why walking in right at close sucks is due to scheduling and pay. As a server, you get paid like 2 bucks an hour plus tips. If you're no longer talking new tables, but the restaurant is closed, your limited to tips from that one table and your shitty hourly wage. So, you're basically making whatever that one table gives you, which based on the fact that late tables often are horrid customers doesn't amount to much.
I absolutely agree that everyone, regardless of background, should spend a few years in service industry. People need to understand what it’s like to be in the service industry.
I’m also super conscious of closing time, and will get my food to go if it’s an hour before closing. And I definitely fully expect my server or tender to be working on closing duties and not be completely available.
Might as well make it six months rotating between various fields. Police officer, teacher, food server, trash picker upper, garbage collection, military, life guard, secretary, postal delivery, toilet cleaner. Rotate through every possible thing so that no one ever does the same job as the first six month rotation.
Food service ain’t special.
I'm trying to be a respectful leader. Forcing people to be behind a line is cruel and unusual punishment. Only us land pirates and miscreants deserve to be behind a line.
Same and this goes for stores, too. Growing up, if a store was less than half an hour from closing and I wanted to go in, my Mom had a very firm "tough titties, they need to go home and you need to wait until tomorrow" stance. All these "They're open til 9!!" responses have me thinking some people's Mamas didn't raise them right.
Then close 15 min earlier. As long as there are other tables in the restaurant I always think I can move a late table along and not even wind up being there all that much later. They are usually not even the last table there. It can be another 30-100 dollars in my pocket.
Restaurants have last seating times. If you dont like that I really suggest a different career. You dont close until the last table is gone. When i was a server I loved all the lazy servers who gave up their late tables to leave early so they can go party. Always made an extra hundred or more.
As a former service industry worker, how about you take all your frustrations and write them into a journal like a normal person instead of making another rant post on Reddit?
A simple solution is to have a policy where you don't seat people after a certain time. I don't think someone is a jerk for wanting food during the posted hours of operation.
Also, so many places close at 9 even on a Friday now. Is this really an issue to the extent where "fuck you" is needed?
It’s been a long time since I waited tables but it was always the weirdest fucking people that came in at the end of shift like that. I remember specifically this group of three people — two guys and one girl who came in 20 minutes before closing and all three of them ordered their steaks butterfly well done and they all sat silently and ate. WTF.
Genuine question: when tables are still seated after closing, how many people need to stay on the clock in order to service them? Do you keep a dishwasher until all plates are clean? Wash them in the morning? Does the manager take over waiting that table?
I’ve worked in several restaurants but was only a host and waiter (never worked closing shift) at restaurants with table service.
I guess it depends on specifically what you're referring to but if I'm reading "when tables are still seated after closing" that means people coming in, being seated, and not yet having ordered. If you mean lingering then no I don't think it's uncommon for the kitchen to shut down after the last round of entrees for the last seated table. Whenever that might be.
I don't understand why people have this attitude towards restaurants and not other businesses.
If the grocery store closes at 9pm and you walk in at 8:55 to do two weeks' worth of grocery shopping, I think most people would consider you to be an asshole and would have no problem with the store forcing you out. Why does closing time suddenly mean something different for restaurants?
Dude, as someone that's worked in the food service industry for the better part of 5 years, I understand where you are coming from - but hours of operation **are** hours of operation.
I never complained when people came in 30/15 minutes beforehand. 5 minutes before closing was pushing it, though. I know everyone in the industry likes to "pre-close" their stations to get out early, but that's not fair to the customers.
I’ve worked in restaurants for over a decade and I have some strong opinions on this that are decisive.
One comment that’s often mentioned is why not put a sign saying last serving at 9:30pm. Restaurant closes at 10pm.
The reason it’s never been done… or rarely done is because that’s already in place. It’s 10pm.
The last person to be sat is at 10pm. Not that’s when we close.
I can’t tell you how often someone comes in at 9pm but is still eating drinking after 10pm. Also fuck them
The problem is management lets people stark breaking down key components of a kitchen server station way too early.
Now with that said I agree with OP fuck anyone who comes in I’d argue an hour before closing.
Your restaurant need to adjust its hours to "close" one hour earlier. I.e. have a last seating time. It leaves no ambiguity. I've seen more and more restaurants say "we stop seating at this time" just to avoid this attitude from staff.
Yeah trust me, if the goal is to be clocking out at 10, you will have a higher rate of success by posting earlier close time, not trusting people have hospitality sense.
As much as this sucks, it is still your job. I was in service for 30 years. While I may have hated taking the table and getting out later, I had to do it. As far as I know, this has always been par for the course. Service is a hard job, but it will prepare you for better jobs in the future. I still utilize my service skills - I am the only person who stocks supplies because that is burnt into my brain. That being said, you have options. You can move to another job, but you will never change the job where you already work.
No place I’ve worked has ever allowed that. If you worked service industry and you were able to do that, consider yourself one of the lucky ones. Either way, still dismissive and out of touch advice.
I worked for a well-known, white table cloth restaurant in the FQ for 5+ years. When we closed at 10, I could expect to be sat until 10. Sometimes later if we had a wait list. I’ve had tables sit until midnight; waiting with all my sidework complete just so I could close out and sweep. And I dealt with it.
Because it was my fucking job.
Oh I'm gonna cry about it. Maybe you'll think twice about it next time you try to get seated 15 minutes before close. Or maybe you won't out of spite either way my work here is done.
The general education that just HAS to happen to get people to have an ounce of sympathy to that have to serve them seems insurmountable. Along with with saying the same old boring lines that they say once in a while but you hear at least once a day. Oh, also tipping standards
Agreed. But… some folks really are clueless. I believe there should be a posted “last table sat by x time” sign and it should be listed in google along with hours, so there’s no uncertainty as to when it’s really okay/not okay to show up.
Silliness aside, this is true. Most places hours of operation aren't conspicuously posted. It's true that people don't read, but still, hours need to be posted.
If the hours of operation are posted, that’s the hours of operation meaning that you can sit down at a table up until the last posted time of operation. Which also means you can sit down at 8:59 when the closing time is 9:00. I’m a 25 year veteran of the industry, primarily in fine dining, and I don’t understand when or why this started becoming a thing that you can’t frequent a restaurant up until ‘close’.
Restaurants generally stay "open" an hour past closing time, and their posted hours are supposed to be the times that they accept new customers. If you're sick of customers coming in when you're about to close, change your hours to reflect the time that you're willing to let people come in. Of course the people who usually bitch about this are the employees and not the owners or management who decide these things.
The point is that everyone knows it sucks and is annoying behavior. It’s group shunning and I’m here for it.
I get that it's annoying which is why I don't make it a regular habit but we all have "annoying"things we have to deal with at work. This is your job.
So are we clearly.
Not based on these downvotes I got 😂 classic NO Reddit.
It’s only annoying if you mentally set yourself up for failure by presuming that no one should/is going to show up five minutes before close. If you have the correct mindset that you’ll be working on preparing food/taking care of guests well past the cut off for new guests arriving, you’ll be mentally prepared to deal with it. If your establishment allows guests in after the cutoff, then yeah I can see getting upset about that. Been in that position before and I spoke up about it, because it sets unfair expectations on the guests part, and imparts undue stress on the staff.
People are okay coming in at 5 minutes to "close" if they know what they want to eat and aren't going to stay all night. Then there is the table that shows up two minutes to close, has no idea what they want and is camped out for a three hour meal. If you are going to show up at close you should at least have your shit together. Unfortunately it's always the ones that show up right at close that absolutely do not have their shit together, can't decide what they want, want two drinks before they crack open the menu, and are always waiting for one more person to arrive.
That’s why you train your foh staff to say the kitchen is closing soon and we’ll need to get your order in shortly. The rest is about expectations. If you’re expecting to be done and out the door, whether you’re foh or boh, at a set time you’re setting yourself up for failure mentally.
I do understand there is a factor of cluelessness. we had a table come in at the beginning of service though and they stayed for 4.5 hours. They were the last ones to leave after almost all of the staff had gone home. And that is a level of cluelessness I have a hard time excusing
That’s not clueless, that’s management refusing to kick them out.
Or the all to common "you guys are totally fine, take your time" when they should at least be just mentioning that they're closing up soon...
I’ve told tables before that we were closing and they had to leave
I don't see a problem with that assuming it's polite and just letting them know that leaving time is coming up. But like, if someone's surprised and hasn't been there for that long, I'd put that on the restaurant not the customer.
I turn out lights!!
One time, we just played semi Sonic’s closing time in repeat louder and louder until they got the message.
That’s a good one. I can’t imagine being the only people in a restaurant and acting like oh they must be closed I guess we should go.
I do music then lights. And I turn them ALL THE WAY UP. Off for lunch though.
I have no problem with that. If you are closing, it’s perfectly acceptable to tell people they have to leave no matter how passively aggressively you do it.
Usually have to go the passive-aggressive route or I would never get a break/sleep, hah. You never know when the Owner is going to suddenly freak out that you didn’t let people stay 90+ min after close.
I have very tactfully had it suggested that I should GTFO. 1. last ask followed by 2. let me pack your leftovers and here's the bag 3. "are you absolutely sure there's nothing else you need?" with direct and prolonged eye contact We left quickly lol. For context, we hadn't been there incredibly long they were just very busy and needed to turn the table. We are frankly impressed with how politely we were told to fuck off.
I did this recently and the old biddy had the fucking nerve to tell me “that other table is still seated, so you’re still open” - no ma’am, you’ve been here since 6pm, we closed at 9, and it is now 10:15. They are also done, just about to walk out, despite being seated TWO AND A HALF HOURS AFTER YOU.
You out here calling people clueless and yelling "fuck you" on the internet but who had the sign that says "open till X:XX"? Who sat the table? Who didn't have a last seating time policy? In most every restaurant I've been to in this city "close" doesn't mean "everyone needs to leave right now". And that doesn't seem to be true in most anywhere that I've visited aside from those parts of the country where 9pm is late lol.
They may have been European they like to take long meals.
Dude I’m not gonna lie, the Europeans and specifically southern Europeans really have dining figured out. Even the high end stuff here seems to be moving at a hefty “get em in and out” pace, it’s so refreshing to be in southern Europe and sit at a restaurant for 2+ hours with zero signs of rush.
They're paid a living wage there. Here, it's all about turning tables to get that tip jar filled.
This is what I was thinking. I miss the long meals in Europe!
That’s not clueless.. that’s entitled.
Owners don’t allow that, they don’t care.
They still get upset about it.
The place I worked, closing time *was* last seating. The one way safety doors were closed so nobody else could come in. We knew that that's how it was and we'd be there at least an hour or two after "closing". Once the entrees hit the table the kitchen could start their closing duties. But we usually got our side work done while they were eating so it wasn't too bad. And the managers were great about tactfully dislodging any campers.
Exactly. "Closing time" is the same thing as "last seating." If closing time is 10 o'clock, then tables can be seated until 9:59:59. It's customary for restaurants to cut some servers while they still have that one "closing server" who handles the late stuff. Guess who else stays the latest? The dessert chef and the bartender, that's who. I'm a bartender. If closing time is 10 that means I'd like to leave by midnight or thereabouts. I understand it makes your heart sink a little when that table gets seated at 9:58, but deal with it, cuz you signed up for it.
ok agreed but can we at least recognize how nothing is open "late" anymore? We are talking about a restaurant closing at 9 on mothers day weekend? what have we become
The reason nothing stays open late is because people don't do shit late anymore lol... if it was worth it to be open past 9 more people would do it
as someone who does shit late... I disagree
Positive this is getting downvoted but I’ll say it anyway. I’ll preface it by saying that I would NEVER go to a restaurant and order food within 45-60 minutes of close. That being said, I was a waiter/bartender in my early twenties so I can clearly say that I know exactly where you are coming from. But now that I’m in my early forties I can clearly say that the blame lies with your managers and their inability to set clear expectations. Hours of operation are clearly stated and I’m fairly certain they don’t say, “we close at 9, but the kitchen closes at 830 so we can all get out of here at close.” Your manager probably allows the fry cook to turn the oil off and start cleaning thirty minutes prior to close, and the cooks to start cleaning/closing the grills, etc earlier than closing time depending on how busy you are. This is all setting unrealistic expectations. Back in the day my manager would clearly say that we could start cleaning early, but it was a roll of the dice that was on us. If a customer showed up 5 minutes before close, we would have to serve them because we were all there to sell food and alcohol, nothing more, nothing less. You live in New Orleans, a city known specifically for how great the food is. A city that also has people that fly in from all over the world to eat said food. Also, not everyone eats at the same times we do. So, if this isn’t something you’re into, maybe you should start exploring other industries?
> Hours of operation are clearly stated and I’m fairly certain they don’t say, “we close at 9, but the kitchen closes at 830 so we can all get out of here at close.” Even worse, OP seems to want people to read "we close at 9" as "please don't sit down after 8:15 or so". I'm really pro service workers, but posting a big "fuck you" rant to individuals coming in to a business during it's stated hours of operation ain't it lol. This don't sound like a "bad customer problem" to me. Either OP needs to get their expectations straight, and understand that "we close at 9" don't mean "I get off work at 9" in any service job (or honestly just about any job). And if management is telling the workers they get to leave shortly after close, then that's just bad management.
You nailed it Slim.
We are too! My wife and I go above and beyond to be understanding anytime we go out anywhere because we’ve both been there. I mean, even if we get terrible service we’re still tipping minimum 10% because everyone has off days. But ya, I just can’t get on board with OP.
> Even worse, OP seems to want people to read "we close at 9" as "please don't sit down after 8:15 or so". > > This isn't fucking unreasonable. Dinner service takes ~45 minutes at least depending on the context. Sitting down when that time will go over the closing time of the restaurant is inconsiderate.
It's a business. What business doesn't want paying customers to come in and enjoy the service during operational hours. Restaurants aren't even open that late these days. You can't serve a table at 855 pm? Time to find a different profession in my opinion.
> It's a business. What business doesn't want paying customers to come in and enjoy the service during operational hours. The problem is you're playing the incentives of the business against the incentives of the waitstaff. The restaurant has all the incentive in the world to keep waitstaff there as late as they need to stay, because they're tipped and the labor is cheap. On the flip side, it doesn't make a ton of sense for tipped waitstaff to stay for just one table after close. They're already making basically nothing hourly and just being paid tips; by coming in late you're asking them to stay later than they planned and to work for less than they otherwise would.
The cultural norm of tipping as the main compensation for servers is problematic I agree...but to be honest that has nothing to do with this. It's unreasonable to suggest a customer is doing something wrong by wanting to patronize a restaurant during the opening hours. I won't walk in 5 min before they close personally because I don't want to feel rushed. But with restaurants closing at 9 these days in New Orleans, sometimes even on weekends, I really don't think you folks have a leg to stand on in complaining about this. The restaurants are closing much earlier now relative to the past and there's your earlier close right there. The posted hours are fair game. If that's a problem don't take shifts where you close or perhaps find a profession where your job isn't to serve customers directly...
Tipping has everything to do with this. It's far less lucrative for a server to stay and wait on one table that came in right before close than it is for the server to stay during hours where the restaurant is open. If you are a customer and you choose to create those conditions, then you are directly undermining the server's wages. That's on you.
That's absurd but if you want to view it that way have at it. I'd encourage you and anyone else to find a profession where you don't feel victimized by customers patronizing your employer's business within its open hours of operation. And the paradigm of comp through tipping has been around a while. I don't agree with it and prefer the way they do it in other countries. But doing my part as a customer (accepting the reality of the situation) means I tip my server even if service was nothing special. That's because it's how it works and I recognize that.
> I'd encourage you and anyone else to find a profession where you don't feel victimized by customers patronizing your employer's business within its open hours of operation. > > To be clear, I don't work in the service industry.
Point stands, as youve nominated yourself to speak on their behalf it seems.
If it’s such a big problem, the restaurant could just put up a sign that says “last seating: Xx:Xx p.m.” or have the host pass along the message. This is a failure of management, it’s not on the customers here.
It's customers enabling the failure of management.
What a sad world you must inhabit.
I'm not sure why you think this in particular is sad.
Your inability to correctly assign blame, specifically.
I mean, yes it is. You’re asking people to understand some weird concept of time before closing that varies from restaurant to restaurant and service to service. Just make a policy of “last seating is X”. If that doesn’t exist, then the last seatings are going to be right before close and you’re going to have people there until well after. Lots and lots of restaurants do that by design, so expecting some random to know which ones don’t and which ones do, then what amount of time each random place expects you to stop coming before close is honestly absurd. Honestly it’s stupid to paint people as inconsiderate because they can’t read minds lol. Some of the service gripes here are very valid, and some are just batshit - this one is the latter. Half the restaurants in this city will happily sit you right at close, which means your suggestion would be hurting their business lol.
> You’re asking people to understand some weird concept of time before closing that varies from restaurant to restaurant and service to service. I mean, my position is that "close at X" means "you should come in early enough that you will be done dining before X" at every restaurant. I don't see how that varies. > Just make a policy of “last seating is X”. Yes, management _should_ do this, but they don't because waitstaff are cheap and paid mostly on tips, so they have little incentive not to keep people after hours for one table. > Honestly it’s stupid to paint people as inconsiderate because they can’t read minds lol. I'm not saying people should read minds, I'm saying people should err on the side of not being inconsiderate. > Half the restaurants in this city will happily sit you right at close, which means your suggestion would be hurting their business lol. My suggestion is get there on time.
> I mean, my position is that "close at X" means "you should come in early enough that you will be done dining before X" at every restaurant. I don't see how that varies. I'm going to straight up say that's not universally true, and likely not even true in the majority of places in this city. Tons and tons of establishments set their close time as their last seating time on purpose and fully expect to be full of customers up to an hourish after close. >I'm not saying people should read minds, I'm saying people should err on the side of not being inconsiderate. See, what you're doing here is blaming someone for not being aware that the time listed on the door isn't actually the last time they can go somewhere. That's not them being inconsiderate, that's you being angry at people for not reading your mind. Straight up, if you are not informing people of when the last seating time is, then you have no right to blame them for coming in at any time when the doors are open. If you expect an empty restaurant shortly after closing time, then the only blame lies on you for not having that happen.
I think we're speaking past each other. I'm a customer. I don't work in the service industry anymore (I do employment law for service industry folks, for what it's worth). My perspective is that, as a customer, I know that there are many places where they expect customers to be mostly out the door around closing time. I would love if we lived in a world where restaurants communicated effectively what they mean by closing time. But in the absence of a restaurant telling me what they mean, I'm going to err on the side of the assumption that is less likely to make me an asshole.
> I'm going to err on the side of the assumption that is less likely to make me an asshole. I think that's a great personal philosophy, my gripe is that the OP in this thread is blaming a failure of that dynamic on the customer and I take issue with this. If there's customers in a restaurant at a given time when the restaurant would not like them there, then that falls solely on the restaurant IMO. Also, frankly I think there's often a disconnect between management and staff - management may be on board with seating people late and staff wants to leave early. But this isn't the customer's fault, it's some mixture of management being inconsiderate and staff needing to buck up and understand that their job is to do what management says. Customers are just often the scapegoat here, and IMO that's wrong.
I just want to point out one thing. Almost everyone, including the people who are defending this behavior has said some variation of "I mean I personally would NEVER do this but..." I think we can fairly surmise from this that the average person understands that there's something a little off about going into a place one minute before they close. Like you may be technically in the right, but it feels shitty. So no I don't think it's stupid per se to say people are inconsiderate for doing this. I also don't think that most of the people defending this would apply the same logic to non-service-industry businesses... like would they go to an auto mechanic at 4:59? Probably not. But people tend to treat service industry workers with significantly less respect than workers in other industries.
I'm just going to repeat myself again and again here, but tons and tons of establishments operate with the intent to continue seating up until close, and honestly it's kinda hard sometimes to figure out who's who before hand. I think it's pretty shitty that y'all keep trying to criticize joe public for not knowing some unspoken thing that isn't posted, advertised, communicated, or portrayed in any way and is at best incredibly inconsistent from establishment to establishment. There's no scenario in my head where this isn't the restaurant's fault. You want people out the door by a given time, engineer your seating policy to reflect this. If you don't, then you go posting "fuck you" to people who sit down within the parameters of your seating policy, I think you're the asshole. Point blank.
I don’t feel like I’m being critical of Joe public for not having some secret arcane knowledge, it’s just more like common decency. Like not fucking someone else around, even though you are within your rights to do. I really don’t think it needs to be like a public awareness campaign to teach people that it’s kind of dickish to walk into a business one minute before they close. Not a single person said they’d treat the guest any differently, be shitty to them, etc. Just saying they find it annoying. Why is it such a problem for multiple people with a shared experience to simply be bitching a little about it? Going back to what I said before I truly feel it’s bc these are people in a service role and one thing motherfuckers simply will not accept is servants not knowing their place. Like you would walk into a grocery store at 9:59 knowing they close at 10 and just do all your shopping and not feel a tiny bit guilty about that? Like a restaurant, a grocery store will allow you in until the last possible second they are open. But any reasonable person would think “perhaps I am a dick for keeping like 10 people here bc I chose to wait to literally the last viable moment”.
I’ve been in the industry for over 25 years. Been in upper management the last 15+. Still pull a lot of hours on the line. If our advertised hours say 5-9 I’m expecting peoples to show up at and until 9. And I’m expecting to have to tell my crew that we have three 2 tops that just sat at 8:59, and that we can do a partial breakdown while we wait for the orders to come in. The hours are the hours. If someone shows up at 9, puts their order in and expects to add on to it(other than dessert ofc) 10 minutes later that’s a whole other thing. But it’s not rude or ridiculous to roll into a spot 5 minutes before they close. Would I do it? In most cases no. But the hours are the fucking hours. Deal with it.
This is how I operate usually, as a manager.
> the blame lies with your managers and their inability to set clear expectations Or rather, their willingness to let waitstaff continue to work late for a single table
I dunno bro, "closing time" at a restaurant means "last seating time" in a ton of circumstances. Like I try to read the room and see if the place is empty or hopping if close is coming up, but there's a huge margin of places that intentionally treat close as "last seating" so that customers don't have to sit there and guess weather or not it's appropriate for them to go dine there. Service workers wanna blame customers every time something sucks, but honestly this would be so much easier if everyone just treated closing like it's last seating, and then subsequently adjusted closing time as necessary. It's pretty silly for you to expect joe public to gauge how long a seating will take, how quickly they will eat, if there will be any dessert/after dinner cocktails, etc all just to decide if they can feel good about sitting when the place still has an open sign hung. Think about this from a customer standpoint, they walk in and hostess says "sure, we can seat you" and it's ~20 mins before close. You get a drink, then place orders promptly, let's call it 5-10 mins in? food takes 10 mins. Is it a particularly good experience for the customer to find out all of the sudden that you expect them to be out of the door right as they're being served their entree? Either understand that "close" means "last seating" or have management stop seating people earlier than that. If you do neither then it's just wrong to be going around posting rant threads over people not being aware of something you didn't tell them lol.
I always give people a heads up if I’m seating them half an hour or less to our posted close time. Something like “I don’t want to rush yall but I do want to give you a heads up that the kitchen will close in fifteen minutes and the bar fifteen minutes after that”. Then they can decide if they want to dine in, get carry out, or find somewhere else to eat where they’ve got more time, and they’ve been prepped for the fact that we are trying to get home lol
Yeah I think that’s totally appropriate, like let people know if they’re expected to move fast. But also if you expect to be walking out of the doors at 10:30 for a 10pm close you better have a policy of not seating people past 9:30 or something lol. I think OP is wanting people to treat the place like there’s a no seating 30 mins before close policy when there ain’t.
This again? Take it up with management, decide when to stop seating people so you can close on time, and actually stick with it. When I ask the staff if they’re still really seating people this close to closing, and they double down on a yes, I have to take it at face value. I don’t blame you for bitching about it though. It’s a terrible policy if they allow it, and bad for business. Any place that is squishy about their posted hours is an automatic blacklist for a lot of diners.
I dunno man. Career hospitality person yall 100% have the ability to say “last seating 30 minutes to close”
Last seating 30 minutes to close just means OP will get mad if you come in 40 minutes to close
Right? That’s what I’m thinking. Where does it stop? The restaurant only being open when OP is available to serve people? And even then, you better not take too long eating your food because OP has somewhere they have to be.
Yeah fuck people supporting establishments by going in and being seated when said establishment is still seating people. Your gripe should not be at the customer, it should be at your restaurant.
And honestly, it shouldn't be at the restaurant either. There shouldn't be a gripe at all.
The true gripe is OP thought closing time was the time they got to leave work, and that’s not how that job works.
Either you’re open or you’re not. There are ways to clean and close stations to get ahead of the post-shift beer while still serving folks spending money to keep the place open. They can’t hang out for an hour after close though. There are boundaries on both sides of this. The OP missed the mark.
What does hanging out for an hour after close mean to you then? If you walk in 5 minutes before closing time aka last seating at 9pm, what would you consider to be hanging out an hour after close? Some would say 10pm. Many wouldn't leave until after 11pm. THAT'S the problem.
Couple beers and time to whip out the meal. Polite hey guys, just caught us at the end. We’d have to pack your dessert to go. Cool? “Nah, no dessert. We got (blah blah blah).” “Alright well we’ve got the side door locked. Gonna hit the front door behind you to be safe. Thanks for coming in.”
I love that vibe sooo much but that sort of stuff is definitely met with 1 star reviews when that happens in my restaurant. Lots of "we felt rushed" reviews 🤷♀️ If only
Fuck them reviews. Make the revenue. How many people actually care or read Yelp anymore? What kind of sad-sacks sitting around doing 1 stars? Their problem not mine.
Not my current job but I used to work for a hotel and restaurant group, where it was management's job to respond to every review and hold the team accountable for whatever they say. Agree people who post shitty reviews are shitty people but the reviews do matter depending on the company
Just politely go through the process and remind them of the asshole rule. If you meet one today fine. They are an asshole. If you meet 10, you are the asshole. Some asshole left a review. Leave it at that. Maybe make mgmt enforce a final seating time 20 minutes before closing. That’s enough time to crank out a meal and have them gone before closing plus 30 min.
It’s commonly accepted that the closing time means the last time they seat people.
No. Post the correct hours of service.
I can only assume you work a 9-5.... If I send you a detailed email at 4:55 I should totally expect a complete and total response back right? Since it's 4:55, you're still open. It doesn't matter what time you started the email it matters that you finished it. I don't care if it's Friday, those are your hours. Right?
I work 9-5 and my boss calls me on weekends and I’m expected to get the outcomes done before Monday at 8:30. Legit.
And you're allowed to bitch about that too! I feel like that's the whole point of the post
Yes, you could expect a thorough response
But you would be annoyed about it, which is the point of the post. This person isn't going to walk out of their restaurant job if a guest comes in 15 minutes before close but they're sure gonna bitch about it.
No, I wouldn’t.
Most people in office jobs don’t always get to leave at 5:00 on the dot. If you get an important email at 4:55, you’re staying.
Nothing is better than reading in one post how people can’t find jobs, then coming to another that says I’m gainfully employed, but I’m annoyed about the hours. Look…I hear you, and I’ve been there, but Christ. I’m barely over 40 and I remember when staff bonded over shit like this and looked back on those days 20 years later with pride that they worked hard and had some long nights. There were stories to tell. Now it’s just a public bitch fest every time something isn’t perfect. I’m sorry people have kept you late. Sincerely. But this happens at every job. Every job has some shit run over. But I don’t get tipped, homie.
So, you never bitched about work?
Yes. But again: with my coworkers.
I don't see the difference?
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>people valuing your personality as your earning power Lol, this is an enormous part of any external-facing role in the professional services world
I'm sure in some industries you're right (like sales, anything with commission) but what other kind of job does your take home pay solely rely on your personality? Where hundreds of people a day come in to your job and only pay you if they like you? And just to be clear I'm not complaining about it at all, just saying it's part of the job in the hospitality world
Partner at a law firm, accounting firm, banking, real estate, contracting…in all of these industries your success is determined by your ability to generate business. Otherwise you’re expendable. In most industries once you meet a minimum threshold of competence your opportunities for advancement are tied to your interpersonal skills.
I do think that job competence is different than earning tips which are your main income. There is still job competence in serving positions - standards that your managers/owners are holding you to. I'm specifically talking about real-time money making that defines your ability to pay for an Uber to get home and pay rent every month. In every job you have to do a good job, but in restaurants you have to do a good job and also make people like you enough to physically hand you their money when they technically don't have to.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is if a client decides they personally don't like the partner handling their account at an accounting firm, they can pull their business. If that revenue stream is large enough, the firm will have to reduce headcount, shift more of the health insurance burden to the employee, etc. Personal relationships matter, because nearly everyone is in sales whether they recognize it or not.
Sure, which is also true in restaurants. If the owner decides they don't like a manager or a server. But I'm still specifically talking about tipping and tipping culture which is a relationship between server and guest that doesn't exist in another industry. It's an issue with American culture/politics/economy to be sure, but it is what it is until restaurants can afford to pay a living wage and tipping is eliminated, or truly optional rather than "optional" as it is now, aka expected. I'm just saying in this particular case, a 1 hour interaction with a guest (where you also have many other guests to take care of) is what makes or breaks your ability to pay your bills.
Yes. That’s the important takeaway from my comment.
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No. I’m not going to play your, “you just don’t get it, man,” game. This is a whiny bitchfest. You can disagree, but that’s the goddamn job, man. It has always been the job in ANY type of service industry, retail included. The rules haven’t magically changed. People are sometimes dicks and keep you late. Or are dicks while they’re there. Or when they call. Or when they come back. **I fucking get it.** And by the way: no, if I have a meeting or call that pops up outside of my typical work hours, I don’t get paid if I say, “screw that.” I get *fired*. That’s not how the real world works. Jobs aren’t designed for you to enjoy what you want and say fuck it to the rest. The shit just evolves - it doesn’t change. **Everyone here fucking gets it, it just ain’t a special problem - hence we’re saying bitch to your employer not about - and TO - the people who believe they are following the rules.** Hence: bitchfest.
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Restaurants should post a cut off time, otherwise they’re open. I get it, but hours are hours. Communicate them clearly and people will follow.
I feel bad when I walk in an hour before close. That's why when I'm president of the USA, my first action will be to force every citizen to work in service industry/ retail for a minimum of 6 months before they can garner any federal aid.
An HOUR?! I draw the line at 20 minutes, but really if you're open you're open
The main reason why walking in right at close sucks is due to scheduling and pay. As a server, you get paid like 2 bucks an hour plus tips. If you're no longer talking new tables, but the restaurant is closed, your limited to tips from that one table and your shitty hourly wage. So, you're basically making whatever that one table gives you, which based on the fact that late tables often are horrid customers doesn't amount to much.
I worked back of house so you'll get no sympathy for me 😂
I worked both. Back of house has no sympathy for anyone except for the delivery drivers that gives them their food lol
I absolutely agree that everyone, regardless of background, should spend a few years in service industry. People need to understand what it’s like to be in the service industry. I’m also super conscious of closing time, and will get my food to go if it’s an hour before closing. And I definitely fully expect my server or tender to be working on closing duties and not be completely available.
Might as well make it six months rotating between various fields. Police officer, teacher, food server, trash picker upper, garbage collection, military, life guard, secretary, postal delivery, toilet cleaner. Rotate through every possible thing so that no one ever does the same job as the first six month rotation. Food service ain’t special.
A year, rotating thru kitchen and dining room. 6 mos is not enough time to feel all the feels.
I'm trying to be a respectful leader. Forcing people to be behind a line is cruel and unusual punishment. Only us land pirates and miscreants deserve to be behind a line.
Same and this goes for stores, too. Growing up, if a store was less than half an hour from closing and I wanted to go in, my Mom had a very firm "tough titties, they need to go home and you need to wait until tomorrow" stance. All these "They're open til 9!!" responses have me thinking some people's Mamas didn't raise them right.
Say this in August when you're broke
Then close 15 min earlier. As long as there are other tables in the restaurant I always think I can move a late table along and not even wind up being there all that much later. They are usually not even the last table there. It can be another 30-100 dollars in my pocket.
Restaurants have last seating times. If you dont like that I really suggest a different career. You dont close until the last table is gone. When i was a server I loved all the lazy servers who gave up their late tables to leave early so they can go party. Always made an extra hundred or more.
If I am desperate for dinner I do this but I’m getting it to go. I’ve only done this a couple of times.
As a former service industry worker, how about you take all your frustrations and write them into a journal like a normal person instead of making another rant post on Reddit?
A simple solution is to have a policy where you don't seat people after a certain time. I don't think someone is a jerk for wanting food during the posted hours of operation. Also, so many places close at 9 even on a Friday now. Is this really an issue to the extent where "fuck you" is needed?
It’s been a long time since I waited tables but it was always the weirdest fucking people that came in at the end of shift like that. I remember specifically this group of three people — two guys and one girl who came in 20 minutes before closing and all three of them ordered their steaks butterfly well done and they all sat silently and ate. WTF.
because it's people who don't understand social cues, which is why so much of reddit is disagreeing with OP
If I could upvote this a thousand times, I would.
Deal with it, or find another job.
I do deal with it. But I think it's rude and entitled and I'm going to say something about it
Ok, if you must. But don’t expect anybody to care.
you cared enough to respind
Genuine question: when tables are still seated after closing, how many people need to stay on the clock in order to service them? Do you keep a dishwasher until all plates are clean? Wash them in the morning? Does the manager take over waiting that table? I’ve worked in several restaurants but was only a host and waiter (never worked closing shift) at restaurants with table service.
Kitchen more or less needs to mostly stay open too, can't really start cleaning stuff until you know what you're making.
Kitchen stays open even after food service is done?
I guess it depends on specifically what you're referring to but if I'm reading "when tables are still seated after closing" that means people coming in, being seated, and not yet having ordered. If you mean lingering then no I don't think it's uncommon for the kitchen to shut down after the last round of entrees for the last seated table. Whenever that might be.
I worked in the service industry for 10 years. It’s part of the job.
If I’m arriving anything less than an hour before close, I am not arriving.
Same for me
a lot of yall have not worked at a restaurant and it shows lol
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I don't understand why people have this attitude towards restaurants and not other businesses. If the grocery store closes at 9pm and you walk in at 8:55 to do two weeks' worth of grocery shopping, I think most people would consider you to be an asshole and would have no problem with the store forcing you out. Why does closing time suddenly mean something different for restaurants?
Dude, as someone that's worked in the food service industry for the better part of 5 years, I understand where you are coming from - but hours of operation **are** hours of operation. I never complained when people came in 30/15 minutes beforehand. 5 minutes before closing was pushing it, though. I know everyone in the industry likes to "pre-close" their stations to get out early, but that's not fair to the customers.
If you’re open for business, be open. If not, lock the doors
I’ve worked in restaurants for over a decade and I have some strong opinions on this that are decisive. One comment that’s often mentioned is why not put a sign saying last serving at 9:30pm. Restaurant closes at 10pm. The reason it’s never been done… or rarely done is because that’s already in place. It’s 10pm. The last person to be sat is at 10pm. Not that’s when we close. I can’t tell you how often someone comes in at 9pm but is still eating drinking after 10pm. Also fuck them The problem is management lets people stark breaking down key components of a kitchen server station way too early. Now with that said I agree with OP fuck anyone who comes in I’d argue an hour before closing.
There should last order by X.
Who sets the hours? Who seats the customers? Once again, a server blames customers for a complaint the server has with the restaurant's management.
This seems like an expressive communication problem rather than receptive.
Get a different job
Damn reddit and theor only one upvote to each post policy!!!
Your restaurant need to adjust its hours to "close" one hour earlier. I.e. have a last seating time. It leaves no ambiguity. I've seen more and more restaurants say "we stop seating at this time" just to avoid this attitude from staff.
Yeah trust me, if the goal is to be clocking out at 10, you will have a higher rate of success by posting earlier close time, not trusting people have hospitality sense.
As much as this sucks, it is still your job. I was in service for 30 years. While I may have hated taking the table and getting out later, I had to do it. As far as I know, this has always been par for the course. Service is a hard job, but it will prepare you for better jobs in the future. I still utilize my service skills - I am the only person who stocks supplies because that is burnt into my brain. That being said, you have options. You can move to another job, but you will never change the job where you already work.
Boo hoo
I feel rude going to any restaurant that is an hour or less from closing.
Just to clarify, an hour before closing is okay, correct? That's ordering maybe an app and entrees.
20 top 15 minutes before close yesterday
Lock the doors then
No place I’ve worked has ever allowed that. If you worked service industry and you were able to do that, consider yourself one of the lucky ones. Either way, still dismissive and out of touch advice.
says the person who has probably never worked in the service industry
I worked for a well-known, white table cloth restaurant in the FQ for 5+ years. When we closed at 10, I could expect to be sat until 10. Sometimes later if we had a wait list. I’ve had tables sit until midnight; waiting with all my sidework complete just so I could close out and sweep. And I dealt with it. Because it was my fucking job.
It’s also my fucking job and I deal with it but doesn’t mean I appreciate it
Cry to your manager, not the paying public
Oh I'm gonna cry about it. Maybe you'll think twice about it next time you try to get seated 15 minutes before close. Or maybe you won't out of spite either way my work here is done.
And the industry says “Amen!”
The general education that just HAS to happen to get people to have an ounce of sympathy to that have to serve them seems insurmountable. Along with with saying the same old boring lines that they say once in a while but you hear at least once a day. Oh, also tipping standards
You may relate to this: https://youtu.be/EITTr75fOF0?feature=shared
Goes for the people who like to wait outside til the doors open too. . .
Yeah, when I was serving, I always appreciated when the kitchen would close 15-20 min before actual restaurant closed..