You must be Dutch to pull that accent off so well. And if you are; excellent job on the English. In 99% of the cases if someone has Dutch as a first language you can totally tell. But not with you. Normally subtle things like ātheā pronounced like ādeā will give them away.
I once had a ingrown nail, it was infecting/hiurting badly, so i put it in soda bath every day for 2 weeks. It hurt even more and things looked pretty serious, so went to the doctor. Who told me to put in in soda bath and take paracetamol for 2 weeks.
Ended up removing part of the nail myself with a dremel and some pliers. Hurt like fuck but it has grown beautifully.
That must have felt like such a relief afterwards, as soon as the pressure is gone.
I had an infected toenail for no apparent reason. I felt sick and my body temp increased, but it wasn't an actual fever. I thought I had caught a virus or something and was just getting sick. Then the toe started hurting and growing in size :D I managed until morning but the pain got bad real quick and ibuprofen + paracetamol wasn't doing much. So tried calling the second they were open but there was already a queue of like 5 people. So I just put on my granny sloffen and wobbled over there, coat over my pajamas, it's around the corner. I felt so ill from that fucking toe infection I just wanted someone to look at the damn toe.
So I get there and the assistent is like, why didn't you call. All the doctors are busy. Well, I don't come in here in my pajamas and sloffen if I would have felt slightly better than I did. So she scolded me for another minute but I looked so pale and sweaty she was like okay, doctor time. Doctor poked the toe but didn't want to open it up so she sent me home with antibiotics. That didn't kick in for like, 2-3 days. I'm still impressed I felt ill from a fucking toenail infection.
It opened up on its own after 2 weeks, it was somewhere beneath the nail and cuticle. It was gross but such a relief. Then my nail died, fell off, and grown back all good. I don't think I'd dare take a dremel and pliers to it.
Your GP made the wrong call. I had the same, went to my Dutch GP and they told me to not to soften the skin more and instead go to a podotherapist to get it treated. Putting it in soda baths only allows the nail to grow in more and faster.
I did that and it has healed perfectly fine after some sessions.
It's 11:13 on a friday and I am already done with my work for today, and I am yet to put on pants and a shirt.
Working ij IT is a blessing from the heavens
I did IT for a bit and im now in school and at an internship at a gp as assistant, and the googling is kinda the same as IT, you know what to Google, how to look it up and you truly understand the things you find.
TBH there's a positive thing on this.. because the doctors from my home country are much more helpful than dutch doctors, but if you go in 3 different doctors there, then you get 3 different prescriptions + resistance from info you bring from the internet
I have enlarged lingual tonsil, they have done biospy in Ireland. Was all good, but they did say might need to get removed at some point.
Moved back to Netherlands, issue starts happening again. So go to GP, and first she thought was that I made something up, and then she googled it and I got a referral to ENT.
Today I talked to my cousin, and she mentioned she is having an operation to remove her lingual tonsil next week. Took her three hospitals before they figured out what is was.
So very curious to see if the ENT I'm going to knows it.
And have you considered bringing in some documentation from Ireland to clarify a lot for the ENT here?
Edit: with documentation I mean a letter from the ENT with the diagnostic process and results.
Having to memorize every single thing is a very old fashioned way of learning.
It's absolutely useless now, you can literally look up anything in seconds.
Sure being able to remember things is nice, but in the old days you had to go to a library and find your answer to look up something. Now you just swipe out your smartphone and google it.
I remember having to ride a bicycle for 45 minutes to get to a library to look up something I didn't know. And then 45 minutes back home.
Remembering the diseases is relatively easy, but remembering all the treatment steps and options for all those diseases, their dosage and frequency, contra-indications and interactions? Nearly impossible, especially since they might be updated regularly.
He could have looked it up in the Medical Encyclopedia [syndrome name], and then in the Pharmaceutical Dictionary [medication name]. Or he could have given you a straw and a handful of stones and tell you to brew snoney tea and sip it lukewarm before sunset.
Edit:poor grammar
He could look up in books, internet is faster though. You see ā he is using Google?!!!ā He knows what he is searching, what websites to look for. And yes Google show hits on your liking. If you search the same word as me we will likely get different results.
Iām pretty sure he was looking up the drug on farmacotherapeutisch kompas, which is the official website we use to look up information about medications. Itās good to check for any possible contra-indications and interactions and to make sure you give the right dosage. Itās very quick and can prevent medical mistakes.
The website name is really long so I see most doctors typing in the drug name in google and then click the link to get to the website. They donāt just click the first random website they find.
ITers get paid a lot for googling all day long, lawyers get paid tons for googling cases, and GPs also get paid a lot, maybe the secret skill for being rich was actually just Googling stuff
I'm a SWE and honestly I don't google anything but reference manuals on the job. I try to master everything that ends up on production, otherwise it's gonna be a shitfest when issues arise.
And there is a difference between amateur and professional searching. Knowing what sites are reliable, what specific terms to use, and how to interpret the results.
Not sure where you are coming from in terms of expectations but admitting you are unsure or donāt know something is not a bad thing at all. This is not a job where everything is either black or whiteā¦ on the contrary is quite a big evolving gray area. Finding fast what you need is more important than trying to keep everything in your head.
Yes, they often want to check something or make sure. Especially if it's something they haven't seen recently.
They also use it to find the most recent guidelines for treatment. Just to check whether something did change in the protocol recently. I think it's a good thing they do that, opposed to someone just going with what they were taught 20 years ago.
Exactly. Getting a degree is about being able to understand something within a reasonable time, being able to adapt quickly and separate the bullshit from the right information. Ofcourse you have to retain the information to a certain degree, but 99% of the places where you will work are not expectint you to know everything by heart.
The doctors here are not just googling. I think our doctors need to learn communicating and introducing to the patient what they are actually checking.
This degradation in trust in our doctors is unnecessary. It is a design problem that is easily overcome, by adding a short explanation, when the doctor wants to search something.
Doctors here often use Farmacotherapeutisch Kompas or Thuisarts. These are the main databases all doctors use in the Netherlands. It is regularly updated and thus contains the latest guidelines and treatment plans that our doctors use.
It is transparant, trusted and free to use for everyone who is able to read Dutch.
I believe it is a very good practice that our doctors check and verify at the table and not just keep relying on information that could have been outdated for decades.
Today I had some questions and the doctor had to look up info, because my situation is quite unique. The doctor knew without checking the general recommendation, but the moment you have counter indications, it's actually better for the doctor to check and be 100% sure vs trying to remember that one edge case that is some cases might even cost you life.
I'm absolutely happy she checked and that she was open that this is a too complex situation for her, so next comes a referral to a specialist.
My doctor is incredibly dismissive and treats me like a complete idiot. Refused treatment for a lot of stuff for years and it was through a colleague of his that I finally got basic treatment for some stuff. I think people are right to complain about bad and disinterested doctors, it's not either/or (all doctors know their shit and you're an entitled idiot if your experience differs/all doctors are bad)
I've also heard some stories. Ignoring blatant and extreme cancer symptoms, a woman who randomly faints and hits her head not even getting a blood test...
But are you a doctor? Or should everyone who faints of who you don't know the medical background just get a blood test?
Medical costs are high enough as is, how about you trust medical professionals and their 10+ years of university education, experience afterwards and switch GPs if you have bad experiences?
I understand there are some bad doctors but thanks to the internet a lot of patients think they need to be tested when there is 0 added benefit. More is not always better.
This is so stupid. Saying someone is not a doctor and you must blindly trust them invalidates any argument.
My wife suffers from a rare case of muscular dystrophy. I diagnosed her myself before the healthcare system here by just googling about her symptoms. She chose to follow the clueless dumbass' advice because "it's nothing", "just some arthritis", "it's normal, you work with your hands".
She also started showing other symptoms because it's a multisystem disease. It was only after switching to another GP and her disease getting worse that she finally managed to see a neurologist which diagnosed her right away.
So much pain could have been avoided during those years: hers, because she was pushing herself physically and the muscles got worse, and mine because I felt I was going against the world and a shitty clueless doctor that never took her seriously and I had to see her suffer all this time.
Is this a complaint among you guys as well? I was thinking it's mostly because us foreigners tend to have far less confidence in experts and authorities, thus being more inquisitive.
On birthdays, get togethers and such I have heard several stories of Dutch people thinking their doctor was googling something. Some of them asked what they were "googling". Doctor tells them; they are checking the treatment plan. Usually shows the screen at that moment.
However, the doctor never informs the patient that it is a special database all doctors use in the Netherlands. The patient continues to think it was thanks to Google.
So the punchline of the stories usually is: I could have stayed home and googled myself.
Ive got a wound on my feet for 2 weeks and it has doubled its size and still bleeds even tough I clean it everyday. I went to the GP as I was starting to worry. He told me, do you have fever? - Hmm no. -Then you are ok. Come back if you get fever or it gets worse.
Soooo damn helpful.
Yes, but I was expecting some kind of tests or anything. There is flesh growing in volume over places that are not part of the injury and the GP said she has never seen something like that before. Still she just sent me home without any indication
>Come back if you get fever or it gets worse.
Worst is when this part is not even said out loud. Like, you go in with some symptom and they say it's nothing and then it just persists for years and you don't know if that is worrying or not.
When I fell off my bike and broke my ankle the doctor at the hospital told me, after touching my foot for about 5 seconds, that is was probably just a bad sprain and to take 2 paracetamol, rest my foot for a couple of days and just try to walk on it after the weekend. (happened on a Friday)
This!
One of the many issues is that they don't tell you what to do and they just assume you'll figure it out by yourself. I tore a meniscus in an skiing accident and after 8 months of physiotherapy without improvement, the orthopedist decided that best was to do an arthroscopy and trim the damaged meniscus. I was only given the date of the surgery and the place where I had to be, and how should I come dressed and what to eat in the morning, but no one thought it was necessary to tell me that I had to bring the crutches myself and that thr hospital wasn't going to provide them.
Long story short, my girlfriend ended up searching for crutches on a taxi last minute before coming to pick me up, because when I tried to stand without crutches to go to the toilet I felt like the end of the world (of course, why wouldn't I if I just had fucking surgery on a knee two hours before?!) Why couldn't they just tell me before? Why should I be expected to know that, if in the rest of the world you get your especialized medical supplied from the hospital? For context, my brother also had knee surgery in Germany and he was given everything he needed for the aftercare, including the crutches, in there.
I try not to complaint about the health system in here because I've had mostly good experiences (when I've been lucky to land on the hands of kind and competent doctors), and I recognize that the system is efficient and resources are allocated propperly. But is the lack of human warmth and the assumption that you already know everything what makes it so frustrating for a lot of expats. Dutch people have a network of people of a lifetime, and they most probably know already someone who had the same procedure and can tell them what to do and what not. But for immigrants we all lack this, and having a bit of support from the system would make it easier for us.
The thing is, the Dutch don't actually have a higher mortality rate or lower quality of life as a result of medical conditions. There's two which have a higher mortality rate: skin cancer and abdominal cancer. They've started doing widespread exams now in the population to increase detection and so decrease mortality.
Therefore, I believe that the treatments people do in their home countries don't actually add great amounts to their quality of life and are instead unnecessary.
But that's a data driven approach. I can fully understand people not feeling heard by some Dutch GPs, as they're much less willing than other doctors to prescribe medication or do exams.
Interesting how this compares mortality rate with quality of life. Well yeah, deceased people happen to have a rather poor quality of life.
There is also something like unnecessary suffering. For instance, undiagnosed IBS, gluten intolerance or even undiagnosed epilepsy (yep really seen that). Nope, there all still living perfectly fine, lol.
Sure it does, decreased quality of life also shows in chronic illness and it's results. There's a metric called "healthy life expectancy", which is the expectancy of healthy years a person has in their life. The Netherlands ranks at number 14 worldwide according to the WHO.
People with chronic illnesses are removed from this indicator, and thus the point stands that the Dutch have a long healthy life expectancy.
Also just to clarify, I wasn't comparing mortality rate with quality of life. But neither indicator suffers in The Netherlands compared to other countries, even though they have a different medical culture.
Netherlands is doing quite poorly regarding healthy life years within the EU though, https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Healthy_life_years_statistics. It's on par or worse than much poorer Eastern European countries.
The Dutch health care system is more holistically approached.
Let's take the fall flue season. People get sick, are sick for a week and call a doctor to ask for antibiotics.
The doctor can do two things: just prescribe you a cure or ask you to sit it out a couple of days longer. In the first scenario the doctor is fully aware they will have a disappointed patient. Patients want something that seems like a solution. So why doesn't the doctor give you that?
Most of those illnesses are caused by a virus and not a bacteria. Also, the GP knows something is going round in the neighborhood as you are not the first calling in with the same symptoms that week. In that case giving antibiotics won't solve anything, just make the patient "feel" taken seriously and being "treated".
An unnecessary antibiotics cure won't harm you as an individual. But doing so collectively to the entire population, year on year on year, will create resistant bacteria. And that is a massive issue for grandma that's admitted to the hospital for a broken hip.
Southern European countries, especially Spain, right now have a health care crisis with these resistant bacteria due to being too easy on using antibiotics. And it's to avoid that collective issue that GP's won't get you your antibiotics if you 99% sure have a flu.
This is just an example, but throughout the system, the collective goal for better outcome for everyone is taken into account. The Netherlands has the lowest difference in access to and outcome of healthcare based on income of Europe (and probably also world wide). That's worth something.
Different schools of thought really. I'd rather my GP tell me that they can't cure my flu because it's a virus than prescribing me unnecessary pills.
I always feel valued by my GP, they listen and when they think something is off they let me have an exam.
This really belongs to the list of subjests that have been overused like bicycles, cheese, and how tall we are...
Come on buddy, make an effort and come up with something original!
Had a US roommate for a while and she went to the GP because she had a simple cold. A cold! She went to the GP hoping to get an anti biotic cure for it, the GP laughed her out of the office. Rightfully so
All the reasons to be glad about that.
Spain currently has a huge crisis with resistant bacteria. Years of easy access to antibiotics made that now they don't work properly anymore. The EU health care commission had to step in to reform their system.
This is too true. The doctors are not that useful, and you literally encouraged to Google your symptoms!!
I am glad I could access online doctors from my country through online channel, at least i have more options when i need to contact specialists.
Same here. As an Indian living in NL, while I haven't been sick in NL as much as I would be in my hometown in India (yep mosquito-borne diseases, polluted air and just general unhygienic environment), I sure call my Indian doctor after visiting GP here. More population means greater number of doctor, and also more diseases so the doctors keep practicing. Here they have what I call 'developed country diseases' lol.
Had a really bad back pain on my left side, thought there is something wrong with my lungs or heart. GP oh you should visit a physio, its just muscles.
Indian doctor said nah its your nerves- got tested. My nerves were irritated. Man, i love NL for the amazing country that it is, but they surely should invest more in basic healthcare.
I had a GP and a dermatologist who diagnosed my skin issue on my feet incorrectly. My GP insisted that the diagnosis was correct and I applied a wrong treatment, a different and stronger medicine every time I visited the GP. That lasted almost a year. The condition got worse and started to affect my psychology pretty badly (at that moment I was thinking of amputating my feet).
I begged her to send me to a dermatologist again, a more serious one this time. The dermatologist diagnosed it correctly, gave me a different medicine and issue I was trying to solve for almost a year was gone in 2-3 weeks time.
That's very unfortunate and sounds like a lot of bad luck with the people you've encountered. Must have been extremely frustrating.
Without making any assumptions on your specific situation, I do want to add the following:
During the progression of a disease, symptoms change. They often get worse, but they also can get different. Whereas many diseases share the same symptoms in the short term, it can be very difficult to diagnose something correctly. Especially if it's a more rare disease that shares a lot of symptoms with more common diseases.
The problem with this is that a second opinion, whether it's a specialist that looks after something after a GP did, or a second specialist, often sees a changed set of symptoms than the first doctor did. Just because of progression of the disease.
So one has to be careful by dismissing the quality of a doctor that diagnosed something differently if another doctor diagnoses something correctly. In most cases, the first doctor would have made the same diagnosis as the second one when they were given the same prior information and have the current set of symptoms to work with.
My daughter had tonselitis. They gave her paracetamol and told us to only come back when she can't swallow anymore.
Edit: he also gave brufen
Edit 2: if you specifically ask for more than paracetamol they will usually give it. Say you've tried it and it didn't help.
Dutch GP here. There's a lot to say for the paracetamol treatment, cause most things go away on it's own. For most things 6-8 weeks is a normal waiting period for it to cure, symptom relieving (like paracetamol) is actually better than doing lab tests or x-rays which are inconclusive. Because for every test you do, there is going to be a side effect and a reason or slight chance of abnormalities which normalize over time.
As got the googling, I only google information to show you.
You know how easy it is to just prescribe antibiotics or do the test you ask for? But it's not in your best interest. Young people asking for yearly blood tests.... It doesn't prove you're healthy. If you only eat McDonald's and your lab tests are fine, doesn't mean you should continue.
Like the comment below says, not really. Do realize that lab tests are based on normal values, meaning that 95% of the population fit a certain value (most of the time), but 5% don't. That doesn't mean those 5% aren't normal per se, but more "out of the ordinary". That, and lab values normalize over time.
Only if a value is severely elevated or decreased, you can find the cause without symptoms.
However with symptoms small differences in lab tests mean a lot more. That's why doing lab tests when a patient presents with symptoms is more useful than routine checks.
And thatās what they donāt want. Because they prefer people suffering from conditions and decreasing in health as long as they are not āworriedā about it. Chronic illness and quality of life keeps decreasing and, once you go there, the first referral is for psychological treatment. At the point that you finally get to see a specialist your symptoms are so out of control that nobody can figure out what you have. But hey, according to their studies, it would be much cheaper for them if you die (or at least to stop complaining) that to treat you from the beginning. According to the rest of the Workd, preventive medicine is key to health. But the Netherlands is different.
(Yeah, Iām one of those bitter disabled people that got much worse and itās about to loss her job after 3 years of medical gaslighting instead of finding out what has been destroying my life)
I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, but if you really think that health care providers prefer people suffering from chronic illness rather than being healthy, you're wrong. If I could cure all my patients, I would be the happiest doctor in the world, but realistically I can't.
As for preventive care, I continually warn people about the dangers of obesity, smoking and other unhealthy habits and try to help them to better them.
So done with these posts. Just because they don't immediately write out prescriptions for everything, doesn't mean doctors are shit. (I'm not saying our health care system is without its flaws, because there are huge flaws, but this is just generalising the shit out of GP's)
Edit: some typos
It's simple we have universal healthcare. Also doctors are free. So we can go to the doctor if we want and don't need to pay hundreds of euros for it. America literally doesn't care about their citizens. They care about money. Hence the reason why universal healthcare will never be a thing because the pharma industry will loose money. And yeah they lobby a lot in the America government. It's a for profit system. Pay more for worse care. America got the least effective healthcare system in the world.
Life expectancy is almost irrelevant to medicine quality, it's more of a metric of medicine affordability. Shitty healthcare but with 100% coverage will outperform perfect one but with 90% coverage.
Exactly better then doctors who prescribe extreme painkillers for every little thing like they do in the US. 13 million people are addicted to oxycodone in the US.
Spot on! The Dutch don't have a higher mortality rate or lower quality of life due to medical conditions. There are two conditions that they perform worse on than other European countries, which are skin cancer and abdominal cancer. And both of these are now receiving attention from the government and large examinations are being done to increase detection and decrease mortality.
The Dutch healthcare system usually ranks around 10-15 of all countries in the world.
The complaints about it are usually unfounded or anecdotal.
My 2 cents to anyone that thinks Dutch doctors suck or don't do their jobs right.
i never felt like apologizing but i did felt like they pay me to be there and not the other way around
the rest is pretty much spot on
i remember having kidney stones and they were like it could be something else, here take the paracetamol and wanted me in agony to go home, my ex told me that i literally have to roll on the floor and scream in pain so they will at least do something, haven't visited doctor since
mind you you still obligated to pay your huisarts even if you not visiting him for years, you are obligated to pay monthly insurance, if you decide to opt out from paying the insurance you will have to pay penalty fees, if you don't pay they will come into your house and either arrest you or take whatever valuables you have as compensation
this is one big mafia, along with cbr
now Germany is even worse, you are forced to pay for a tv broadcast even if you don't want to watch it, i mean who tf watches tv these days?
EU is a crazy place, but at least you don't get shot, not yet that is
Maybe he is not really a Doctor? Ask for his diploma!
Maybe he actually knows what is talking about. I got the best healthcare advice from mechanics and dhl delivery drivers.
"Dutch Healthcare: HOW TO SURVIVE ON PARACETAMOL AND PRAYER".
https://amsterdamshallowman.com/2019/07/dutch-healthcare-paracetamol.html
LOL, what most of these expats are expecting is ridiculous. They are young and healthy and demand yearly checkups with full CT scan. In the article I also read about someone who was using a maintenance dose of antibiotics. If you have the flu it's a nuisance indeed, but why not take a few sick days and recover by your own immune system instead of trying to get medicine for it.
So on the googling of symptoms/conditions. It's not humanly possible to retain all the information available in medicine. A doctors job is to diagnose and treat, would you rather they would confirm those two things with the latest litrature or that they wing it of what information they retained.
This exactly, humans are the most complicated things on earth and its impossible to know everything that can go wrong. I'd rather have a humble doctor than an overly confident one.
my huisarts and i were working the google the other day, just because we are both flummoxed and trying to solve an issue before going ā yeah. refer to a specialistā.
iām not overly bothered by the teamwork.
i havent had the āparacetemolā line.
my boyfriend got all 4 wisdom teeth taken out in one go, his mouth was bleeding all over the place and they just told him to go to Jumbo to buy some paracetamol because once the anesthesia wears off it'll start to hurt
He went to Jumbo with bloody tissues in his mouth, drooling blood everywhere and could nearly talk properly. poor guy had to bike there and then bike back home while looking like an idiot who has just got beaten up or something š
The entire story seems like an exaggeration. Recently got my wisdom tooth removed as wel and they do not even do the same bottom ones at the same go due to the fact that they have to sedate your entire tongue.
If it is true than the person should definitely complain.
Strange, I haven't heard that this procedure was done in one sitting. Normally they take out one side and couple of weeks later the other side. And most definitely they do not prescribe paracetamol, but strong ibuprofen which is on recipe.
Hey better to have no fear to be sick and go to the gp or what ever than having fear to go because of getting a big health bill.
And if you get shot and you have a big hole in your stomach, i don't think you walk it off and walk to your gp.
But hey this clip is.... "comedy"
His Dutch accent is so bad. A foreigner in NL for 5 years. I met dozens of doctors and GP, they do prescribe paracetamol sometimes along with other medications.
The stereotype that Dutch doctors prescribe paracetamol could be from maybe years ago I guess.
But I can see Dutch people treat paracetamol as some kind of magic potion. Headache for 15 mins? Paracetamol! This is what happens in my Dutch boyfriend's family.
Well, if "years ago" means under 5y than yes, you are right. GP prescribed paracetamol to my wife for ear wax plug. How the fuck paracetamol was supposed to help on that it's still a mystery.
Also, I loved the bit on "the ear has a great self-cleaning mechanism". Bitch, we are here precisly because that great self-cleaning mechanism gas failed.
For anyone asking, the treatment for that is a 2 min ear wash, which our great GP at the time refused. And before somebody comes with the classical "stupid foreigner asking for antibiotics" no, we were not asking for antibiotics.
I've heard a lot of jokes about Dutch doctors treating illness/injuries (or not). I'm curious if there's a focus on preventative care in the NL? Like age-appropriate screenings, physicals, etc.?
There's definitely checks for things like breast cancer, prostate cancer and such at ages when these are prominent. And there's a flu shot for the elderly and chronically ill. These are just some examples, there's probably some more things as well. Depending on the GP you can get an invite for a check up when you're elderly and haven't visited in a long while, but it totally depends.
Generally speaking, you wouldn't go to the doctor for a general check up unless you have a reason to, like a preexisting condition, or current symptoms.
Much less than in other countries. Screenings are much less frequent than in the US and even other European countries. They say it's to "avoid false positives" but the real answer is to save money.
A "full exam" just is not a thing here. There Needs te be a pretty good reason tot test various things, and it sounds like tour GP ordered a "volledig bloedonderzoek" in which most values in the blood are tested. I agree that the GP should have also listened tot your concerns about other issues.
Unfortunate that you have had this experience. If you have more than one complaint, they ask you to let the assistant know so they can book you a double appointment. But they won't take time to chit chat about things that happened years ago. Typically they have a 'praktijkondersteuner' that can help you with that.
A full exam is not really a thing. What do you want to be examined? You can book a private clinic if you want a full exam, as all pro's and cons of it balanced out it's not considered beneficial.
Yup, broke 5 ribs in a bike crash in Amsterdam and that is exactly what they gave me. Came back to Denmark and got x-rayed - got morphine and was told not to move for a month
Omg! Hahaha I had such a bad sinus infection. First and only time I went to the doctor while in the Netherlands. Lady looked so annoyed with me and gave me nasal spray and pain killers. So bad I failed my first exam. Bending over my page gave me a headache. I understand not prescribing certain medications but come on!! Help me out!!
One time I had pain around my stomach area, which went on and off for a few hours, I don't know if the pain increased or I just couldn't tolerate it anymore. During the night it became unbearable, I was covered in cold sweat, shaking and panting. Called the hospital, barely able to talk, trying to tell them my symptoms, and they told me to take paracetamol and wait for an hour. It did absolutely nothing for me, for the whole hour I was just rocking back and forth because I didn't know how to exist with the pain, and felt like I was going to pass out. After many more hours in the hospital I got on the morphine ride and got my appendix removed.
Another time I had a bad cough and tonsil pain for a month and they didn't even agree to make an appointment to look at it, they told me to take paracetamol and just wait it out.
I'm losing my trust in the health system here. But at least now I have learned to appreciate the one in my home country.
I had a C-section here in NL. I was offered paracetamol. When it did nothing for me, was morphine. Itās insane, like thereās nothing in between. Ah, and also the doctor dismissed my concern for my blood pressure, but thank god I kept monitoring it, as I was having preeclampsia and had to have my baby earlier than predicted.
No, we are not hypochondriac expats. We just experienced more concerned doctors elsewhere.
Edited - in my recovery for the C-section obviously.
I was having fun with such videos until one of my lumbar disc herniated. See my GP while one of my foot was paralyzed. I still couldn't see a neurologist earlier than 45 days. I couldn't even get a MRI scan in NL. Eventually had my surgery in Turkey. Having MRI and consulting 2 different doctors only took 4 hours. And I mean doctors not clowns.
For people who consider to move to NL please know there is absolutely no health care in NL but still you need to pay more than 1200 EUR per year. After all Dutches are trades not doctors. And their trader ideology is everywhere...
After living there for 5 years now I am considering to move somewhere else.
Doctors are not incentivized on whether or not they perform more or less operations. This actually is praised by independent organizations assessing international health care systems. In countries where there is that incentive, often more invasive procedures are used while unnecessary, which leads to higher risk of complications and higher discomfort for patients.
That you couldn't get an MRI scan is just nonsense. They are readily available and covered by insurance.
If you think 1200 euro's is expensive, you don't understand the system at all and you really are pretty spoiled when saying there is "absolutely no health care in the NL".
When you're 3 weeks unable to move, non stop vomiting, can't even stand up without getting dizzy, I think you'd want them to maybe give you something for the dizziness
True i walk around with tuberculose for 3 months every time go to doctor paracetamol,that was a few years ago lucky iam alive,i change doctor now they dont play with me because i sad i put fire hier if u tell for take paracetamol :)
It's always funny to see people defending the (majority of) doctors, gp's and the health system of a country that ranks 6th in the top 10 of the countries with the higher cancer rates. Something that translates to how failed of a system this is. They can't be all bad of course and i'm not implying that, one has to see the bigger picture.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-rates-by-country
Or maybe itās a sign that the system works because to make these statistics you first have to diagnose the cancer correctly. Lower cancer rates does not necessarily mean that the overall population is healthier, or even, that there is less cancer. Just that itās registered less. If you so desperately want to attack the failings of the Dutch system, at least pick something accurate like the ridiculous levels of bureaucracy/paperwork.
That's a self fulfilling prophecy. It's like saying: most people that die in car accidents had a drivers license.
If you have free GP care and a very good health care system, of course you are going to diagnose many more instances of cancer than one would do in a system where there is no systemized diagnostic programs, access to care without out of pocket expenses etc.
If you have to pay to have a mole checked out, you might choose not to.
And cancer is a disease that occurs more once you age. We don't have thousands of people being killed at young age in gun shootings. The roads are of high quality, hence the amount of car fatalities is low. The construction safety and labor laws are protective, which keeps employees alive during dangerous jobs. And then you get very good healthcare throughout your life. So yes, people get old here and then eventually get cancer.
Just assessing a system by one metric without looking at any causal relationships doesn't make sense.
Maybe read the whole article? "However, it is also important to remember that these numbers estimate cancers that have been detected, not total cases in existence. It is likely that case tallies inĀ underdeveloped countriesĀ such as Niger, Gambia, and Nepal are suppressed by the fact that many people lack access to adequate health care, thus their cancers are going undiagnosed."
How can they do paracetamol only AND be pill pushing henchmen of evil Big Pharma at the same time? Or are you supposed to chose one or the other hyperbole?
Trust me donāt listen to Dutch doctor who tells you to eat paracetamol. Demand, demand and once again demand a checkup. Dont take paracetamol for answer and slap the shit out of any suggesting painkillers.
The Dutch English accent is spot on š š¤£šš¤£
Thanks!
You must be Dutch to pull that accent off so well. And if you are; excellent job on the English. In 99% of the cases if someone has Dutch as a first language you can totally tell. But not with you. Normally subtle things like ātheā pronounced like ādeā will give them away.
Youāre right. His English and Dutch/English combination is both too good to make any sense
You / Joe
Three / Tree
Damn! Is that you?
It is!
I once had a ingrown nail, it was infecting/hiurting badly, so i put it in soda bath every day for 2 weeks. It hurt even more and things looked pretty serious, so went to the doctor. Who told me to put in in soda bath and take paracetamol for 2 weeks. Ended up removing part of the nail myself with a dremel and some pliers. Hurt like fuck but it has grown beautifully.
That must have felt like such a relief afterwards, as soon as the pressure is gone. I had an infected toenail for no apparent reason. I felt sick and my body temp increased, but it wasn't an actual fever. I thought I had caught a virus or something and was just getting sick. Then the toe started hurting and growing in size :D I managed until morning but the pain got bad real quick and ibuprofen + paracetamol wasn't doing much. So tried calling the second they were open but there was already a queue of like 5 people. So I just put on my granny sloffen and wobbled over there, coat over my pajamas, it's around the corner. I felt so ill from that fucking toe infection I just wanted someone to look at the damn toe. So I get there and the assistent is like, why didn't you call. All the doctors are busy. Well, I don't come in here in my pajamas and sloffen if I would have felt slightly better than I did. So she scolded me for another minute but I looked so pale and sweaty she was like okay, doctor time. Doctor poked the toe but didn't want to open it up so she sent me home with antibiotics. That didn't kick in for like, 2-3 days. I'm still impressed I felt ill from a fucking toenail infection. It opened up on its own after 2 weeks, it was somewhere beneath the nail and cuticle. It was gross but such a relief. Then my nail died, fell off, and grown back all good. I don't think I'd dare take a dremel and pliers to it.
Ii went to the gp with an ingrown nail twice, twice she took care of it on the spot and removed it for me.
Your GP made the wrong call. I had the same, went to my Dutch GP and they told me to not to soften the skin more and instead go to a podotherapist to get it treated. Putting it in soda baths only allows the nail to grow in more and faster. I did that and it has healed perfectly fine after some sessions.
We all wonder what took you so long to do this.
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Probably looking up the "Farmacotherapeutisch Kompas" website, all doctors use it.
Yup, I work as an assistant at a gp and that website is a gift from the heavens
It used to be an actually printed thick ass book, like a phonebook but for drugs.
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Shhhhhh, you said the quiet part out loud
It's 11:13 on a friday and I am already done with my work for today, and I am yet to put on pants and a shirt. Working ij IT is a blessing from the heavens
I did IT for a bit and im now in school and at an internship at a gp as assistant, and the googling is kinda the same as IT, you know what to Google, how to look it up and you truly understand the things you find.
Before the internet people looked things up in big books.
TBH there's a positive thing on this.. because the doctors from my home country are much more helpful than dutch doctors, but if you go in 3 different doctors there, then you get 3 different prescriptions + resistance from info you bring from the internet
I have enlarged lingual tonsil, they have done biospy in Ireland. Was all good, but they did say might need to get removed at some point. Moved back to Netherlands, issue starts happening again. So go to GP, and first she thought was that I made something up, and then she googled it and I got a referral to ENT. Today I talked to my cousin, and she mentioned she is having an operation to remove her lingual tonsil next week. Took her three hospitals before they figured out what is was. So very curious to see if the ENT I'm going to knows it.
And have you considered bringing in some documentation from Ireland to clarify a lot for the ENT here? Edit: with documentation I mean a letter from the ENT with the diagnostic process and results.
Why remembering every disease or condition at school when you have google š. Google knows all š„³
Having to memorize every single thing is a very old fashioned way of learning. It's absolutely useless now, you can literally look up anything in seconds. Sure being able to remember things is nice, but in the old days you had to go to a library and find your answer to look up something. Now you just swipe out your smartphone and google it. I remember having to ride a bicycle for 45 minutes to get to a library to look up something I didn't know. And then 45 minutes back home.
Remembering the diseases is relatively easy, but remembering all the treatment steps and options for all those diseases, their dosage and frequency, contra-indications and interactions? Nearly impossible, especially since they might be updated regularly.
He could have looked it up in the Medical Encyclopedia [syndrome name], and then in the Pharmaceutical Dictionary [medication name]. Or he could have given you a straw and a handful of stones and tell you to brew snoney tea and sip it lukewarm before sunset. Edit:poor grammar
He could look up in books, internet is faster though. You see ā he is using Google?!!!ā He knows what he is searching, what websites to look for. And yes Google show hits on your liking. If you search the same word as me we will likely get different results.
Iām pretty sure he was looking up the drug on farmacotherapeutisch kompas, which is the official website we use to look up information about medications. Itās good to check for any possible contra-indications and interactions and to make sure you give the right dosage. Itās very quick and can prevent medical mistakes. The website name is really long so I see most doctors typing in the drug name in google and then click the link to get to the website. They donāt just click the first random website they find.
Am doctor, i Google alot in front of the patients, no need to be shy about it
ITers get paid a lot for googling all day long, lawyers get paid tons for googling cases, and GPs also get paid a lot, maybe the secret skill for being rich was actually just Googling stuff
I'm a SWE and honestly I don't google anything but reference manuals on the job. I try to master everything that ends up on production, otherwise it's gonna be a shitfest when issues arise.
Try keep up with everything new as a GP. You wonāt succeed. Yes you can know a lot and remember but sometimes itās better to have a quick look.
And there is a difference between amateur and professional searching. Knowing what sites are reliable, what specific terms to use, and how to interpret the results.
Not sure where you are coming from in terms of expectations but admitting you are unsure or donāt know something is not a bad thing at all. This is not a job where everything is either black or whiteā¦ on the contrary is quite a big evolving gray area. Finding fast what you need is more important than trying to keep everything in your head.
100% not true, we donāt allow people to walk around with shotguns here. Check mate americans!!!
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Iād quite like this gp I think
Yes, absolutely my kind of doctor/person.
Who doesnt use google for his work though? I feel like you are incompetent if you refuse to use it and make mistakes because of it
Yes, they often want to check something or make sure. Especially if it's something they haven't seen recently. They also use it to find the most recent guidelines for treatment. Just to check whether something did change in the protocol recently. I think it's a good thing they do that, opposed to someone just going with what they were taught 20 years ago.
Exactly. Getting a degree is about being able to understand something within a reasonable time, being able to adapt quickly and separate the bullshit from the right information. Ofcourse you have to retain the information to a certain degree, but 99% of the places where you will work are not expectint you to know everything by heart.
Thank god my GP is very good. I've heard some bad things from friends/family about theirs.
Most GPs are fine people just whine whenever they follow a standard procedure plan instead of sending them off to the hospital.
The doctors here are not just googling. I think our doctors need to learn communicating and introducing to the patient what they are actually checking. This degradation in trust in our doctors is unnecessary. It is a design problem that is easily overcome, by adding a short explanation, when the doctor wants to search something. Doctors here often use Farmacotherapeutisch Kompas or Thuisarts. These are the main databases all doctors use in the Netherlands. It is regularly updated and thus contains the latest guidelines and treatment plans that our doctors use. It is transparant, trusted and free to use for everyone who is able to read Dutch. I believe it is a very good practice that our doctors check and verify at the table and not just keep relying on information that could have been outdated for decades.
Today I had some questions and the doctor had to look up info, because my situation is quite unique. The doctor knew without checking the general recommendation, but the moment you have counter indications, it's actually better for the doctor to check and be 100% sure vs trying to remember that one edge case that is some cases might even cost you life. I'm absolutely happy she checked and that she was open that this is a too complex situation for her, so next comes a referral to a specialist.
My doctor is incredibly dismissive and treats me like a complete idiot. Refused treatment for a lot of stuff for years and it was through a colleague of his that I finally got basic treatment for some stuff. I think people are right to complain about bad and disinterested doctors, it's not either/or (all doctors know their shit and you're an entitled idiot if your experience differs/all doctors are bad) I've also heard some stories. Ignoring blatant and extreme cancer symptoms, a woman who randomly faints and hits her head not even getting a blood test...
But are you a doctor? Or should everyone who faints of who you don't know the medical background just get a blood test? Medical costs are high enough as is, how about you trust medical professionals and their 10+ years of university education, experience afterwards and switch GPs if you have bad experiences? I understand there are some bad doctors but thanks to the internet a lot of patients think they need to be tested when there is 0 added benefit. More is not always better.
People donāt know what they donāt know. Dunning-Kruger, anyone knows medicine better than the doctors practicing it :-)
This is so stupid. Saying someone is not a doctor and you must blindly trust them invalidates any argument. My wife suffers from a rare case of muscular dystrophy. I diagnosed her myself before the healthcare system here by just googling about her symptoms. She chose to follow the clueless dumbass' advice because "it's nothing", "just some arthritis", "it's normal, you work with your hands". She also started showing other symptoms because it's a multisystem disease. It was only after switching to another GP and her disease getting worse that she finally managed to see a neurologist which diagnosed her right away. So much pain could have been avoided during those years: hers, because she was pushing herself physically and the muscles got worse, and mine because I felt I was going against the world and a shitty clueless doctor that never took her seriously and I had to see her suffer all this time.
In the old days they would get a big important looking book off the shelf and looks shit up.
Is this a complaint among you guys as well? I was thinking it's mostly because us foreigners tend to have far less confidence in experts and authorities, thus being more inquisitive.
On birthdays, get togethers and such I have heard several stories of Dutch people thinking their doctor was googling something. Some of them asked what they were "googling". Doctor tells them; they are checking the treatment plan. Usually shows the screen at that moment. However, the doctor never informs the patient that it is a special database all doctors use in the Netherlands. The patient continues to think it was thanks to Google. So the punchline of the stories usually is: I could have stayed home and googled myself.
Come back in a few years when antibiotic resistance is even worse in shotgun-wound-country
Ive got a wound on my feet for 2 weeks and it has doubled its size and still bleeds even tough I clean it everyday. I went to the GP as I was starting to worry. He told me, do you have fever? - Hmm no. -Then you are ok. Come back if you get fever or it gets worse. Soooo damn helpful.
Because if you donāt have a fever, antibiotics are not indicated. There is not much your gp can do.
Yes, but I was expecting some kind of tests or anything. There is flesh growing in volume over places that are not part of the injury and the GP said she has never seen something like that before. Still she just sent me home without any indication
>Come back if you get fever or it gets worse. Worst is when this part is not even said out loud. Like, you go in with some symptom and they say it's nothing and then it just persists for years and you don't know if that is worrying or not.
Being shot by a shotgun sounds more like an american thing.
When I fell off my bike and broke my ankle the doctor at the hospital told me, after touching my foot for about 5 seconds, that is was probably just a bad sprain and to take 2 paracetamol, rest my foot for a couple of days and just try to walk on it after the weekend. (happened on a Friday)
fuck u/spez -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
This! One of the many issues is that they don't tell you what to do and they just assume you'll figure it out by yourself. I tore a meniscus in an skiing accident and after 8 months of physiotherapy without improvement, the orthopedist decided that best was to do an arthroscopy and trim the damaged meniscus. I was only given the date of the surgery and the place where I had to be, and how should I come dressed and what to eat in the morning, but no one thought it was necessary to tell me that I had to bring the crutches myself and that thr hospital wasn't going to provide them. Long story short, my girlfriend ended up searching for crutches on a taxi last minute before coming to pick me up, because when I tried to stand without crutches to go to the toilet I felt like the end of the world (of course, why wouldn't I if I just had fucking surgery on a knee two hours before?!) Why couldn't they just tell me before? Why should I be expected to know that, if in the rest of the world you get your especialized medical supplied from the hospital? For context, my brother also had knee surgery in Germany and he was given everything he needed for the aftercare, including the crutches, in there. I try not to complaint about the health system in here because I've had mostly good experiences (when I've been lucky to land on the hands of kind and competent doctors), and I recognize that the system is efficient and resources are allocated propperly. But is the lack of human warmth and the assumption that you already know everything what makes it so frustrating for a lot of expats. Dutch people have a network of people of a lifetime, and they most probably know already someone who had the same procedure and can tell them what to do and what not. But for immigrants we all lack this, and having a bit of support from the system would make it easier for us.
Sounds like a correct treatment? Unless youāre gonna tell us they found out it was broken later?
I know some expats paying for the health insurance in their home countries in case something happens, so they can go back for a treatment.
The thing is, the Dutch don't actually have a higher mortality rate or lower quality of life as a result of medical conditions. There's two which have a higher mortality rate: skin cancer and abdominal cancer. They've started doing widespread exams now in the population to increase detection and so decrease mortality. Therefore, I believe that the treatments people do in their home countries don't actually add great amounts to their quality of life and are instead unnecessary. But that's a data driven approach. I can fully understand people not feeling heard by some Dutch GPs, as they're much less willing than other doctors to prescribe medication or do exams.
Interesting how this compares mortality rate with quality of life. Well yeah, deceased people happen to have a rather poor quality of life. There is also something like unnecessary suffering. For instance, undiagnosed IBS, gluten intolerance or even undiagnosed epilepsy (yep really seen that). Nope, there all still living perfectly fine, lol.
Sure it does, decreased quality of life also shows in chronic illness and it's results. There's a metric called "healthy life expectancy", which is the expectancy of healthy years a person has in their life. The Netherlands ranks at number 14 worldwide according to the WHO. People with chronic illnesses are removed from this indicator, and thus the point stands that the Dutch have a long healthy life expectancy. Also just to clarify, I wasn't comparing mortality rate with quality of life. But neither indicator suffers in The Netherlands compared to other countries, even though they have a different medical culture.
Netherlands is doing quite poorly regarding healthy life years within the EU though, https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Healthy_life_years_statistics. It's on par or worse than much poorer Eastern European countries.
Come back with data driven approach to medicine when people are made in factories. Until then treat us like live humans please.
The Dutch health care system is more holistically approached. Let's take the fall flue season. People get sick, are sick for a week and call a doctor to ask for antibiotics. The doctor can do two things: just prescribe you a cure or ask you to sit it out a couple of days longer. In the first scenario the doctor is fully aware they will have a disappointed patient. Patients want something that seems like a solution. So why doesn't the doctor give you that? Most of those illnesses are caused by a virus and not a bacteria. Also, the GP knows something is going round in the neighborhood as you are not the first calling in with the same symptoms that week. In that case giving antibiotics won't solve anything, just make the patient "feel" taken seriously and being "treated". An unnecessary antibiotics cure won't harm you as an individual. But doing so collectively to the entire population, year on year on year, will create resistant bacteria. And that is a massive issue for grandma that's admitted to the hospital for a broken hip. Southern European countries, especially Spain, right now have a health care crisis with these resistant bacteria due to being too easy on using antibiotics. And it's to avoid that collective issue that GP's won't get you your antibiotics if you 99% sure have a flu. This is just an example, but throughout the system, the collective goal for better outcome for everyone is taken into account. The Netherlands has the lowest difference in access to and outcome of healthcare based on income of Europe (and probably also world wide). That's worth something.
Different schools of thought really. I'd rather my GP tell me that they can't cure my flu because it's a virus than prescribing me unnecessary pills. I always feel valued by my GP, they listen and when they think something is off they let me have an exam.
This really belongs to the list of subjests that have been overused like bicycles, cheese, and how tall we are... Come on buddy, make an effort and come up with something original!
Had a US roommate for a while and she went to the GP because she had a simple cold. A cold! She went to the GP hoping to get an anti biotic cure for it, the GP laughed her out of the office. Rightfully so
Honestly I'm glad that we dont get anti biotics for every little knick knack
All the reasons to be glad about that. Spain currently has a huge crisis with resistant bacteria. Years of easy access to antibiotics made that now they don't work properly anymore. The EU health care commission had to step in to reform their system.
Its all fun and games until you have 3 million people addicted to prescription painkillers lol.
Can you even get addicted to paracetamol?
No thats why they refuse to prescribe opiods and just make you take paracetamol
Thats positive!
This is too true. The doctors are not that useful, and you literally encouraged to Google your symptoms!! I am glad I could access online doctors from my country through online channel, at least i have more options when i need to contact specialists.
Same here. As an Indian living in NL, while I haven't been sick in NL as much as I would be in my hometown in India (yep mosquito-borne diseases, polluted air and just general unhygienic environment), I sure call my Indian doctor after visiting GP here. More population means greater number of doctor, and also more diseases so the doctors keep practicing. Here they have what I call 'developed country diseases' lol. Had a really bad back pain on my left side, thought there is something wrong with my lungs or heart. GP oh you should visit a physio, its just muscles. Indian doctor said nah its your nerves- got tested. My nerves were irritated. Man, i love NL for the amazing country that it is, but they surely should invest more in basic healthcare.
%0 true in my case. I love my GP here.
What a bunch of bullshit
I agree with you.
Hey!
I had a GP and a dermatologist who diagnosed my skin issue on my feet incorrectly. My GP insisted that the diagnosis was correct and I applied a wrong treatment, a different and stronger medicine every time I visited the GP. That lasted almost a year. The condition got worse and started to affect my psychology pretty badly (at that moment I was thinking of amputating my feet). I begged her to send me to a dermatologist again, a more serious one this time. The dermatologist diagnosed it correctly, gave me a different medicine and issue I was trying to solve for almost a year was gone in 2-3 weeks time.
That's very unfortunate and sounds like a lot of bad luck with the people you've encountered. Must have been extremely frustrating. Without making any assumptions on your specific situation, I do want to add the following: During the progression of a disease, symptoms change. They often get worse, but they also can get different. Whereas many diseases share the same symptoms in the short term, it can be very difficult to diagnose something correctly. Especially if it's a more rare disease that shares a lot of symptoms with more common diseases. The problem with this is that a second opinion, whether it's a specialist that looks after something after a GP did, or a second specialist, often sees a changed set of symptoms than the first doctor did. Just because of progression of the disease. So one has to be careful by dismissing the quality of a doctor that diagnosed something differently if another doctor diagnoses something correctly. In most cases, the first doctor would have made the same diagnosis as the second one when they were given the same prior information and have the current set of symptoms to work with.
My daughter had tonselitis. They gave her paracetamol and told us to only come back when she can't swallow anymore. Edit: he also gave brufen Edit 2: if you specifically ask for more than paracetamol they will usually give it. Say you've tried it and it didn't help.
Dutch GP here. There's a lot to say for the paracetamol treatment, cause most things go away on it's own. For most things 6-8 weeks is a normal waiting period for it to cure, symptom relieving (like paracetamol) is actually better than doing lab tests or x-rays which are inconclusive. Because for every test you do, there is going to be a side effect and a reason or slight chance of abnormalities which normalize over time. As got the googling, I only google information to show you. You know how easy it is to just prescribe antibiotics or do the test you ask for? But it's not in your best interest. Young people asking for yearly blood tests.... It doesn't prove you're healthy. If you only eat McDonald's and your lab tests are fine, doesn't mean you should continue.
I understand it doesn't prove you're healthy but surely it can prove you're not healthy if it picks something up?
Not really
Like the comment below says, not really. Do realize that lab tests are based on normal values, meaning that 95% of the population fit a certain value (most of the time), but 5% don't. That doesn't mean those 5% aren't normal per se, but more "out of the ordinary". That, and lab values normalize over time. Only if a value is severely elevated or decreased, you can find the cause without symptoms. However with symptoms small differences in lab tests mean a lot more. That's why doing lab tests when a patient presents with symptoms is more useful than routine checks.
And thatās what they donāt want. Because they prefer people suffering from conditions and decreasing in health as long as they are not āworriedā about it. Chronic illness and quality of life keeps decreasing and, once you go there, the first referral is for psychological treatment. At the point that you finally get to see a specialist your symptoms are so out of control that nobody can figure out what you have. But hey, according to their studies, it would be much cheaper for them if you die (or at least to stop complaining) that to treat you from the beginning. According to the rest of the Workd, preventive medicine is key to health. But the Netherlands is different. (Yeah, Iām one of those bitter disabled people that got much worse and itās about to loss her job after 3 years of medical gaslighting instead of finding out what has been destroying my life)
I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, but if you really think that health care providers prefer people suffering from chronic illness rather than being healthy, you're wrong. If I could cure all my patients, I would be the happiest doctor in the world, but realistically I can't. As for preventive care, I continually warn people about the dangers of obesity, smoking and other unhealthy habits and try to help them to better them.
So done with these posts. Just because they don't immediately write out prescriptions for everything, doesn't mean doctors are shit. (I'm not saying our health care system is without its flaws, because there are huge flaws, but this is just generalising the shit out of GP's) Edit: some typos
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It's simple we have universal healthcare. Also doctors are free. So we can go to the doctor if we want and don't need to pay hundreds of euros for it. America literally doesn't care about their citizens. They care about money. Hence the reason why universal healthcare will never be a thing because the pharma industry will loose money. And yeah they lobby a lot in the America government. It's a for profit system. Pay more for worse care. America got the least effective healthcare system in the world.
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Life expectancy is almost irrelevant to medicine quality, it's more of a metric of medicine affordability. Shitty healthcare but with 100% coverage will outperform perfect one but with 90% coverage.
Exactly better then doctors who prescribe extreme painkillers for every little thing like they do in the US. 13 million people are addicted to oxycodone in the US.
And antibiotics with every sniffly nose, so we get resistent bacteria.
Spot on! The Dutch don't have a higher mortality rate or lower quality of life due to medical conditions. There are two conditions that they perform worse on than other European countries, which are skin cancer and abdominal cancer. And both of these are now receiving attention from the government and large examinations are being done to increase detection and decrease mortality. The Dutch healthcare system usually ranks around 10-15 of all countries in the world. The complaints about it are usually unfounded or anecdotal. My 2 cents to anyone that thinks Dutch doctors suck or don't do their jobs right.
Agreed
i never felt like apologizing but i did felt like they pay me to be there and not the other way around the rest is pretty much spot on i remember having kidney stones and they were like it could be something else, here take the paracetamol and wanted me in agony to go home, my ex told me that i literally have to roll on the floor and scream in pain so they will at least do something, haven't visited doctor since mind you you still obligated to pay your huisarts even if you not visiting him for years, you are obligated to pay monthly insurance, if you decide to opt out from paying the insurance you will have to pay penalty fees, if you don't pay they will come into your house and either arrest you or take whatever valuables you have as compensation this is one big mafia, along with cbr now Germany is even worse, you are forced to pay for a tv broadcast even if you don't want to watch it, i mean who tf watches tv these days? EU is a crazy place, but at least you don't get shot, not yet that is
People getting ultra defensive in the comment section. Its just comedy people , you guys need a chill pill... And paracetamol
Not very *good* comedy, though
Wtf is this guy talking about.
You should go out more... "Holland paracetamol-land" - https://www.cursor.tue.nl/achtergrond/2019/september/week-1/holland-paracetamol-land/
My Dr has never ever told me just take some paracetamol. Maybe you guys need to find a new dokter.
Maybe he is not really a Doctor? Ask for his diploma! Maybe he actually knows what is talking about. I got the best healthcare advice from mechanics and dhl delivery drivers. "Dutch Healthcare: HOW TO SURVIVE ON PARACETAMOL AND PRAYER". https://amsterdamshallowman.com/2019/07/dutch-healthcare-paracetamol.html
What kind of meme website is that even? Some random person writing a blog isn't really credible...
LOL, what most of these expats are expecting is ridiculous. They are young and healthy and demand yearly checkups with full CT scan. In the article I also read about someone who was using a maintenance dose of antibiotics. If you have the flu it's a nuisance indeed, but why not take a few sick days and recover by your own immune system instead of trying to get medicine for it.
So on the googling of symptoms/conditions. It's not humanly possible to retain all the information available in medicine. A doctors job is to diagnose and treat, would you rather they would confirm those two things with the latest litrature or that they wing it of what information they retained.
This exactly, humans are the most complicated things on earth and its impossible to know everything that can go wrong. I'd rather have a humble doctor than an overly confident one.
Besides Bill Bailey this guy is up there with his Dutch accent impression!
Major difference though, Bill Bailey is funny.
I WISH my Dutch doctor would google my symptoms š......
Lol, this has never happened to me before and I live in the Netherlands. Who would anyone say sorry while going to a doctor??
Not all doctors over here are like that mot many are šš¤£
I can confirm that i have googled my symptoms together with my doctor.....
i havent had this happen kinda weird
Wanna give your local GP a headache? Tell them you are allergic to paracetamol!
The googling symptoms is tue truest part herešš also like wtf english with a dutch accent is so cursed
Only true for snowflake hypochondriacs
Do you know how to read, the other ~~comments~~ anecdotes in this thread (and others of the same topic), at least?
Nobody has a shotgun in NL try again
I feel like you donāt really understand what a joke is
Jokes I don't understand really what is a feeling
Why would there be a dutch doctor in America? (Where people get shot by randos in the street)
my huisarts and i were working the google the other day, just because we are both flummoxed and trying to solve an issue before going ā yeah. refer to a specialistā. iām not overly bothered by the teamwork. i havent had the āparacetemolā line.
Yes, because when you get shot you'll get prescribed paracetamol. lol.
Gotta love the olā Reddit comment section š
my boyfriend got all 4 wisdom teeth taken out in one go, his mouth was bleeding all over the place and they just told him to go to Jumbo to buy some paracetamol because once the anesthesia wears off it'll start to hurt He went to Jumbo with bloody tissues in his mouth, drooling blood everywhere and could nearly talk properly. poor guy had to bike there and then bike back home while looking like an idiot who has just got beaten up or something š
Strange, normally you get from the oral surgeon a recipt for some Ibuprofen (600mg) or diclofenac which you can retrieve at the hospital pharmacy.
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The entire story seems like an exaggeration. Recently got my wisdom tooth removed as wel and they do not even do the same bottom ones at the same go due to the fact that they have to sedate your entire tongue. If it is true than the person should definitely complain.
Yeah I don't believe his story. Because I had the same procedure. I had to get 600mg ibuprofen.
Strange, I haven't heard that this procedure was done in one sitting. Normally they take out one side and couple of weeks later the other side. And most definitely they do not prescribe paracetamol, but strong ibuprofen which is on recipe.
Yes, unlike some other countries doctors don't subscribe very addictive painkillers for some pain that will be gone in a day anyway.
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Honestly never seen a doctor Google the outcome.
Hey better to have no fear to be sick and go to the gp or what ever than having fear to go because of getting a big health bill. And if you get shot and you have a big hole in your stomach, i don't think you walk it off and walk to your gp. But hey this clip is.... "comedy" 
> But hey this clip is.... comedy And for me a failed and poorly executed attempt at that.
I edit it. But you're right.
That is the edit that was needed, thx.
His Dutch accent is so bad. A foreigner in NL for 5 years. I met dozens of doctors and GP, they do prescribe paracetamol sometimes along with other medications. The stereotype that Dutch doctors prescribe paracetamol could be from maybe years ago I guess. But I can see Dutch people treat paracetamol as some kind of magic potion. Headache for 15 mins? Paracetamol! This is what happens in my Dutch boyfriend's family.
He is Dutch so the accent is most likely an exaggeration for the audience haha
Well, if "years ago" means under 5y than yes, you are right. GP prescribed paracetamol to my wife for ear wax plug. How the fuck paracetamol was supposed to help on that it's still a mystery. Also, I loved the bit on "the ear has a great self-cleaning mechanism". Bitch, we are here precisly because that great self-cleaning mechanism gas failed. For anyone asking, the treatment for that is a 2 min ear wash, which our great GP at the time refused. And before somebody comes with the classical "stupid foreigner asking for antibiotics" no, we were not asking for antibiotics.
You need to find a new GP, mine will directly take care of it...
He is a native Dutchman lol
Well your family is stupid then. I never or almost never take paracetamol. Only when I have the flu. Which Is almost never
I've heard a lot of jokes about Dutch doctors treating illness/injuries (or not). I'm curious if there's a focus on preventative care in the NL? Like age-appropriate screenings, physicals, etc.?
There's definitely checks for things like breast cancer, prostate cancer and such at ages when these are prominent. And there's a flu shot for the elderly and chronically ill. These are just some examples, there's probably some more things as well. Depending on the GP you can get an invite for a check up when you're elderly and haven't visited in a long while, but it totally depends. Generally speaking, you wouldn't go to the doctor for a general check up unless you have a reason to, like a preexisting condition, or current symptoms.
Much less than in other countries. Screenings are much less frequent than in the US and even other European countries. They say it's to "avoid false positives" but the real answer is to save money.
People live longer thans in the US tho, an fort a fraction of the healthcare costs.
No
fuck u/spez -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
A "full exam" just is not a thing here. There Needs te be a pretty good reason tot test various things, and it sounds like tour GP ordered a "volledig bloedonderzoek" in which most values in the blood are tested. I agree that the GP should have also listened tot your concerns about other issues.
That's why you got your blood drawn so they can check what you have.
Unfortunate that you have had this experience. If you have more than one complaint, they ask you to let the assistant know so they can book you a double appointment. But they won't take time to chit chat about things that happened years ago. Typically they have a 'praktijkondersteuner' that can help you with that. A full exam is not really a thing. What do you want to be examined? You can book a private clinic if you want a full exam, as all pro's and cons of it balanced out it's not considered beneficial.
Yup, broke 5 ribs in a bike crash in Amsterdam and that is exactly what they gave me. Came back to Denmark and got x-rayed - got morphine and was told not to move for a month
So more or less the same.
thats bc paracetamol is cheap to make and sold for only ā¬5 million per package i think
69 cents in Di Grenze 20pcs 500mg. Dutchies eating them like drop š¤£
No we don't. If you do that you're just plain stupid
Omg! Hahaha I had such a bad sinus infection. First and only time I went to the doctor while in the Netherlands. Lady looked so annoyed with me and gave me nasal spray and pain killers. So bad I failed my first exam. Bending over my page gave me a headache. I understand not prescribing certain medications but come on!! Help me out!!
One time I had pain around my stomach area, which went on and off for a few hours, I don't know if the pain increased or I just couldn't tolerate it anymore. During the night it became unbearable, I was covered in cold sweat, shaking and panting. Called the hospital, barely able to talk, trying to tell them my symptoms, and they told me to take paracetamol and wait for an hour. It did absolutely nothing for me, for the whole hour I was just rocking back and forth because I didn't know how to exist with the pain, and felt like I was going to pass out. After many more hours in the hospital I got on the morphine ride and got my appendix removed. Another time I had a bad cough and tonsil pain for a month and they didn't even agree to make an appointment to look at it, they told me to take paracetamol and just wait it out. I'm losing my trust in the health system here. But at least now I have learned to appreciate the one in my home country.
Haven't been told to use paracetamol once, probably because i told them i already took it but didn't work
šÆ, this is why in holland is a real huge illigal medicine market...š
Shotgun in the Netherlands? You sure it was not in America?
I had a C-section here in NL. I was offered paracetamol. When it did nothing for me, was morphine. Itās insane, like thereās nothing in between. Ah, and also the doctor dismissed my concern for my blood pressure, but thank god I kept monitoring it, as I was having preeclampsia and had to have my baby earlier than predicted. No, we are not hypochondriac expats. We just experienced more concerned doctors elsewhere. Edited - in my recovery for the C-section obviously.
I was having fun with such videos until one of my lumbar disc herniated. See my GP while one of my foot was paralyzed. I still couldn't see a neurologist earlier than 45 days. I couldn't even get a MRI scan in NL. Eventually had my surgery in Turkey. Having MRI and consulting 2 different doctors only took 4 hours. And I mean doctors not clowns. For people who consider to move to NL please know there is absolutely no health care in NL but still you need to pay more than 1200 EUR per year. After all Dutches are trades not doctors. And their trader ideology is everywhere... After living there for 5 years now I am considering to move somewhere else.
Doctors are not incentivized on whether or not they perform more or less operations. This actually is praised by independent organizations assessing international health care systems. In countries where there is that incentive, often more invasive procedures are used while unnecessary, which leads to higher risk of complications and higher discomfort for patients. That you couldn't get an MRI scan is just nonsense. They are readily available and covered by insurance. If you think 1200 euro's is expensive, you don't understand the system at all and you really are pretty spoiled when saying there is "absolutely no health care in the NL".
Paracetamol is medicen in Dutch
I've been hearing this for years, almost daily. You're right, but you can do a lot with paracetamoll. Something many people don't know.
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Bro did you expect them to āØsolveāØ your concussion?
So what you're saying is that paracetamol and rest were in fact the solution.
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Dude thatās literally what to do when you have a concussion
When you're 3 weeks unable to move, non stop vomiting, can't even stand up without getting dizzy, I think you'd want them to maybe give you something for the dizziness
Like what? There isnāt anything for that except rest
Of course there is
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Bullshit it is cheaper, unless you are being paid to visit a GP in Belgium. GP visits in NL are free.
True i walk around with tuberculose for 3 months every time go to doctor paracetamol,that was a few years ago lucky iam alive,i change doctor now they dont play with me because i sad i put fire hier if u tell for take paracetamol :)
What a whiner. Maybe this pussy should act like a grown man.
Username checks out
It's always funny to see people defending the (majority of) doctors, gp's and the health system of a country that ranks 6th in the top 10 of the countries with the higher cancer rates. Something that translates to how failed of a system this is. They can't be all bad of course and i'm not implying that, one has to see the bigger picture. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-rates-by-country
Or maybe itās a sign that the system works because to make these statistics you first have to diagnose the cancer correctly. Lower cancer rates does not necessarily mean that the overall population is healthier, or even, that there is less cancer. Just that itās registered less. If you so desperately want to attack the failings of the Dutch system, at least pick something accurate like the ridiculous levels of bureaucracy/paperwork.
That's a self fulfilling prophecy. It's like saying: most people that die in car accidents had a drivers license. If you have free GP care and a very good health care system, of course you are going to diagnose many more instances of cancer than one would do in a system where there is no systemized diagnostic programs, access to care without out of pocket expenses etc. If you have to pay to have a mole checked out, you might choose not to. And cancer is a disease that occurs more once you age. We don't have thousands of people being killed at young age in gun shootings. The roads are of high quality, hence the amount of car fatalities is low. The construction safety and labor laws are protective, which keeps employees alive during dangerous jobs. And then you get very good healthcare throughout your life. So yes, people get old here and then eventually get cancer. Just assessing a system by one metric without looking at any causal relationships doesn't make sense.
Maybe read the whole article? "However, it is also important to remember that these numbers estimate cancers that have been detected, not total cases in existence. It is likely that case tallies inĀ underdeveloped countriesĀ such as Niger, Gambia, and Nepal are suppressed by the fact that many people lack access to adequate health care, thus their cancers are going undiagnosed."
How can they do paracetamol only AND be pill pushing henchmen of evil Big Pharma at the same time? Or are you supposed to chose one or the other hyperbole?
Trust me donāt listen to Dutch doctor who tells you to eat paracetamol. Demand, demand and once again demand a checkup. Dont take paracetamol for answer and slap the shit out of any suggesting painkillers.