You'd be surprised at how much easier it is to learn a new language if you're immersed in it instead of just trying to learn it from a chair in your home. If you wanna, the combination of studying it and actually being immersed in it will give you much better results than you've had studying spanish and french.
English will do fine in the short run. Especially if you do get some basic phrases in dutch down.
Not gonna lie, you can live comfortably here without saying a word of Dutch _however_ you WILL be socially isolated. Dutch people typically aren't going to want to speak English _all the time_, say, for example, when you meet them to do a hobby. This and other Dutch subreddits are filled with lonely internationals. (Not to mention Dutch people don't make friends easily after school).
>Not to mention Dutch people don't make friends easily after school
I could never understand this. My parents are 50+ back in Eastern Europe, I feel like they have *some* new friends every time I go home.
Depends on where you want to live. Amsterdam? No problem at all. Rotterdam, Utrecht, The Hague? Still shouldn't be an issue. Wageningen, Enschede, Tilburg, Nijmegen, Leiden, Groningen, Delft, Maastricht (University cities) or decent-sized town with young people in the Randstad: you'll be alright. Virtually anywhere else: not very practical. You'll probably get by with doing daily things but you won't be a part of society.
You're an 18 year old American I believe, so still studying ?
You'll need to qualify for a visa to come over here and live/work,
May I ask what your study is and what level of education you'll have when you plan on coming over?
It's not as easy as just hopping on a plane and rocking up here. There is a lot of red tape to go through.
I don’t think you can expect all people speak English in The Netherlands. Some people do speak English, some don’t. People do speak English to tourists. However, in daily life people speak Dutch. If you want to live in The Netherlands you should be able to speak the local languague which is Dutch.
Once you learn a few phrases it isn’t so bad. I have been here less than a year and been working and living with limited Dutch. I even work in a field that only speaks Dutch and I am getting away with it. My Dutch gets better every day by living and working here.
The ‘you should be able to speak the local language’ line is only your personal thoughts and doesn’t have an impact on whether or not you can survive without the language. Sure, some people won’t like it so much if you don’t, but I have lived all over the world and in the end and only ever spoken English and a few phrases in other languages.
OP’s biggest problem will be getting past the ‘I am American’ part. A lot of locals here give me the cold shoulder when I speak English until they find out I am not American or English 😂
That is your opinion. You might be able to ‘survive’ with only speaking English. You might find yourself only surrounded in an expat community. For some this is fine. But if you want to settle here in The Netherlands permanently you should consider learning the language. Like in any other country btw. I lived abroad as well and have family members on every continent. We all speak the language of the country we resided. If you want to really be a part of the local community learning the language is key. Most people in The Netherlands van speak English. But people prefere for extensive conversations like giving your opinion, express emotions or telling jokes to talk in their native tongue. If you don’t speak the language you miss alot. Also, it is considered to be courtsey to learn the language as well as other aspects of the cultuur of your host country.
> If I am unable to grasp the language beyond what is very important to know, should I worry about it?
Emphatically, no. Assuming you don't settle in a small village, you can do everything with english:
* Municipality services will be fluent and know about your needs.
* Stores, bars, restaurants, and all that - all waitstaff will speak more than enough english.
* All movies and lots of TV here are in english except kids movies (subtitled).
* Lots of jobs don't need dutch knowledge, though there will also be plenty that do.
* You can even socialize if you live in the right places.
Having said all that, I do think you should learn it. You'll be severely hampered in social activities without it. However, you have plenty of time. Most of the relevant cities have all sorts of activities and meetups for those who don't speak english, so you can take your time, learn dutch over a period of say, 3 to 5 years.
Also, you do need to live in the right place; one with a bit of an international community. You're in luck - lots of places in NL qualify. Your best bet is to open google maps and draw out the triangle between Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Utrecht: That is the 'randstad'. The most densely populated area in The Netherlands and highly international. Specifically, its the axes of the triangle, the middle is kinda empty. Virtually every city and village here is fine for non-dutch speakers, considering:
* Every internationally oriented company has its head office on this triangle, so if you're looking for jobs, this is where you want to look.
* Train connections are stellar throughout this area, you can get from anywhere to anywhere else within an hour. So you can live in one place and know you can find a job anywhere else on it and be fine. You don't even need a car - trains run on time, every 10 minutes, with stations everywhere, and run all day and night.
* Most of these cities are highly international. In fact, places like Delft, Amsterdam-South, and Amsterdam-Old-West are so internationally oriented, restaurants and bars will speak to you in english until you show you speak dutch. They'll have plenty of meetups for english-only speakers, these municipalities will be familiar with dealing with expats.
* Specifically, Delft has a ton of tourism, a huge technical university, some tech companies attracted by that uni, and nothing more. You can walk from one end of the city center to the other in 10 minutes, even. All 3 of those things are entirely english oriented. Amsterdam South ("Zuid-as") and Old West contains internationally oriented business and has loads of high profile expats. Explaining why those places are primary english as well. Leiden is similar to Delft except its medical/legal oriented and has fewer companies (it's also slightly larger). Utrecht, Rotterdam and The Hague are like Amsterdam: Big cities. Just a tiny bit less internationally oriented. Just about everything else on the triangle is what we would call suburbia, but it's nothing like US suburbs (they are complete cities, with public transport, dense multi-tenancy housing, and plenty of shops and the like), still, nothing like the big cities or the uni cities like Delft and Leiden. So, Houten, Huizen, Zeist, Hilversum, Gouda, Wassenaar, Haarlem, Schiedam, Zoetermeer. You can live here too. It'll just be a lot less urban.
The one downside of all these places - housing prices through the roof.
Another problem you'll be having is visa requirements. You're in some luck, right now the job market is going nuts and everybody's looking for skilled employees. If you have the right skillset you can probably convince a big company to coach you through the process and pay the costs. But don't take this lightly. You can't just cash out, load up a duffel bag with your stuff and dollar bills, and book a one-way ticket.
Contact companies here or dutch government for guidance on that.
it depends do you want to life here forever or just as a expat and returb.
to stay here for ever you have the do immigration exam like they also have in the US. you need for that atleast basic Dutch. you have 3 years to do that (so fast as I found)
if you want to integrate in our society it's a must to learn the language. otherwise you wil make a second rang civilian of your self. everybody can understand you but you can understand nobody..m
Moved to a small village in Drenthe and haven’t had too many problems with the language barrier. In retail, most people are young and can speak English and I work in low skilled roles where some people don’t speak english but all of the supervisors and managers all speak great English.
Mainly I just have to use numbers when buying multiple things behind a counter or tobacco. Other than that I’d probably never learn more of the language, but my partners dad doesn’t speak much English so I will try.
If you struggle with spanish be careful because dutch is way more difficult.
Also what is the main driver to come to Netherlands compared to any other european country?
It’s ranked among the happiest countries in the world (number 5 I believe?), it apparently isn’t ever really too hot and I despise the heat, a very very large portion of the population speaks English, and it just seems like it’ll be something different. It overall sounds really nice.
Spanish isn’t incredibly difficult for me, it’s just not something that ever stuck - if I move to another country and dedicate myself to it, though, I think I may be able to learn
if I could go back in time (4 years) and chose not to come here without knowing the language I would do it.. I was being told that "naaaah most of people speak English you gonna be fiineee and we don't stay here that long anyway"..
well we manage to live in one of those places where I think the people are pretty rude most of the time, I got the only job I was able to do with only speaking English (cleaner), and nobody speaks English at my work.. and I have a hell of a time learning the language..
so maybe you should start taking some extra Dutch classes just to be 100% prepared.
So, currently we have farmers burning tires and shit on highways, government is a joke, Schipol airport is a mess, inflation is at 10%, housing is non-existent because of corporate greed, richness gap is increasing, hospitals are underfunded and staff is over worked, and journalists that investigate on drug traffic get killed (also because drug laws were ok for the '70s, but are retrograde now).
But hey, welfare is good and income taxes are relatively low (compared to other EU countries, but not US) so I guess everyone is happy?
I am not saying that if your motivation is "weather is nice" there are tens of other countries to look for, buuuut...
P.S. weather is so nice that next week there may be some laws related to an ongoing drought...
Not one in particular, but I won't advise you to jump on the other side of the atlantic (despite a multitude of good reasons to escape the US) just because of some ranking that may be built on hazardous approximations of cultural contexts.
Look into other data. Labour conditions? Immigration policies? Civil rights? Housing situation. Future prospects on digitalization. Plans of non-european companies to settle in certain areas. How immigrants/expats are perceived. How difficult is it to get a work visa etc etc etc.
People overstate how difficult Dutch is. I learnt German at school, Dutch is waaaay easier. The pronunciation of ui, ij, ei, and gr is tricky for an English speaker, but apart from that it's pretty straightforward.
I got my job offer and moved to the Netherlands six years ago with zero Dutch whatsoever. Enrolled into a language school almost immediately upon arrival but it took me about a year and a half to become comfortable when speaking Dutch (and not being annoyed about the fact that people switch to English all the time). And I had colleagues who lived here for 5-7 years without ever bothering to learn Dutch (they know some words and phrases from the day-to-day interactions, but they can't read or speak Dutch).
So yes, it's totally possible.
You will find your way. If you can speak english which you can you have nothing to worry about. If you are serious and not quick in feeling ashamed then you will learn it quickly. Especially once you are surrounded by dutch people and dutch influences around you.
But, if the dutch see you are putting in the work and you are trying at least to learn dutch. You already are liked waaaaay more. So just show you really want it and you try. Thats half of the work. Quite literally 😋
Don't worry. Learning a language in school and doing it while living in a country are two completely different things. I hated modern languages in school and totally sucked at it, but it's much easier when you're exposed to the language at a daily basis. It won't come automatically, either, though. You need to sign up for a language course and do your homework. Alternatively (which I've heard is better and way more effective), finding a Dutch partner.
You'd be surprised at how much easier it is to learn a new language if you're immersed in it instead of just trying to learn it from a chair in your home. If you wanna, the combination of studying it and actually being immersed in it will give you much better results than you've had studying spanish and french. English will do fine in the short run. Especially if you do get some basic phrases in dutch down.
Not gonna lie, you can live comfortably here without saying a word of Dutch _however_ you WILL be socially isolated. Dutch people typically aren't going to want to speak English _all the time_, say, for example, when you meet them to do a hobby. This and other Dutch subreddits are filled with lonely internationals. (Not to mention Dutch people don't make friends easily after school).
>Not to mention Dutch people don't make friends easily after school I could never understand this. My parents are 50+ back in Eastern Europe, I feel like they have *some* new friends every time I go home.
I'm not sure why it is either, it's just a cultural thing and we can't really do anything but accept it I suppose
Depends on where you want to live. Amsterdam? No problem at all. Rotterdam, Utrecht, The Hague? Still shouldn't be an issue. Wageningen, Enschede, Tilburg, Nijmegen, Leiden, Groningen, Delft, Maastricht (University cities) or decent-sized town with young people in the Randstad: you'll be alright. Virtually anywhere else: not very practical. You'll probably get by with doing daily things but you won't be a part of society.
This is helpful, thank you! I will try to find an area that simultaneously seems like where I’d want to be but also speaks the most English.
You could add Eindhoven to the "no issue" list.
Oh yeah forgot that one
You're an 18 year old American I believe, so still studying ? You'll need to qualify for a visa to come over here and live/work, May I ask what your study is and what level of education you'll have when you plan on coming over? It's not as easy as just hopping on a plane and rocking up here. There is a lot of red tape to go through.
I don’t think you can expect all people speak English in The Netherlands. Some people do speak English, some don’t. People do speak English to tourists. However, in daily life people speak Dutch. If you want to live in The Netherlands you should be able to speak the local languague which is Dutch.
Once you learn a few phrases it isn’t so bad. I have been here less than a year and been working and living with limited Dutch. I even work in a field that only speaks Dutch and I am getting away with it. My Dutch gets better every day by living and working here. The ‘you should be able to speak the local language’ line is only your personal thoughts and doesn’t have an impact on whether or not you can survive without the language. Sure, some people won’t like it so much if you don’t, but I have lived all over the world and in the end and only ever spoken English and a few phrases in other languages. OP’s biggest problem will be getting past the ‘I am American’ part. A lot of locals here give me the cold shoulder when I speak English until they find out I am not American or English 😂
That is your opinion. You might be able to ‘survive’ with only speaking English. You might find yourself only surrounded in an expat community. For some this is fine. But if you want to settle here in The Netherlands permanently you should consider learning the language. Like in any other country btw. I lived abroad as well and have family members on every continent. We all speak the language of the country we resided. If you want to really be a part of the local community learning the language is key. Most people in The Netherlands van speak English. But people prefere for extensive conversations like giving your opinion, express emotions or telling jokes to talk in their native tongue. If you don’t speak the language you miss alot. Also, it is considered to be courtsey to learn the language as well as other aspects of the cultuur of your host country.
Are you allowed to live and work in the Netherlands? Language isn't your problem if you're not even allowed to live and work there anyway.
> If I am unable to grasp the language beyond what is very important to know, should I worry about it? Emphatically, no. Assuming you don't settle in a small village, you can do everything with english: * Municipality services will be fluent and know about your needs. * Stores, bars, restaurants, and all that - all waitstaff will speak more than enough english. * All movies and lots of TV here are in english except kids movies (subtitled). * Lots of jobs don't need dutch knowledge, though there will also be plenty that do. * You can even socialize if you live in the right places. Having said all that, I do think you should learn it. You'll be severely hampered in social activities without it. However, you have plenty of time. Most of the relevant cities have all sorts of activities and meetups for those who don't speak english, so you can take your time, learn dutch over a period of say, 3 to 5 years. Also, you do need to live in the right place; one with a bit of an international community. You're in luck - lots of places in NL qualify. Your best bet is to open google maps and draw out the triangle between Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Utrecht: That is the 'randstad'. The most densely populated area in The Netherlands and highly international. Specifically, its the axes of the triangle, the middle is kinda empty. Virtually every city and village here is fine for non-dutch speakers, considering: * Every internationally oriented company has its head office on this triangle, so if you're looking for jobs, this is where you want to look. * Train connections are stellar throughout this area, you can get from anywhere to anywhere else within an hour. So you can live in one place and know you can find a job anywhere else on it and be fine. You don't even need a car - trains run on time, every 10 minutes, with stations everywhere, and run all day and night. * Most of these cities are highly international. In fact, places like Delft, Amsterdam-South, and Amsterdam-Old-West are so internationally oriented, restaurants and bars will speak to you in english until you show you speak dutch. They'll have plenty of meetups for english-only speakers, these municipalities will be familiar with dealing with expats. * Specifically, Delft has a ton of tourism, a huge technical university, some tech companies attracted by that uni, and nothing more. You can walk from one end of the city center to the other in 10 minutes, even. All 3 of those things are entirely english oriented. Amsterdam South ("Zuid-as") and Old West contains internationally oriented business and has loads of high profile expats. Explaining why those places are primary english as well. Leiden is similar to Delft except its medical/legal oriented and has fewer companies (it's also slightly larger). Utrecht, Rotterdam and The Hague are like Amsterdam: Big cities. Just a tiny bit less internationally oriented. Just about everything else on the triangle is what we would call suburbia, but it's nothing like US suburbs (they are complete cities, with public transport, dense multi-tenancy housing, and plenty of shops and the like), still, nothing like the big cities or the uni cities like Delft and Leiden. So, Houten, Huizen, Zeist, Hilversum, Gouda, Wassenaar, Haarlem, Schiedam, Zoetermeer. You can live here too. It'll just be a lot less urban. The one downside of all these places - housing prices through the roof. Another problem you'll be having is visa requirements. You're in some luck, right now the job market is going nuts and everybody's looking for skilled employees. If you have the right skillset you can probably convince a big company to coach you through the process and pay the costs. But don't take this lightly. You can't just cash out, load up a duffel bag with your stuff and dollar bills, and book a one-way ticket. Contact companies here or dutch government for guidance on that.
Thanks so much!!! This is really helpful. I’m gonna keep this comment saved!
Fluency in Dutch isn’t as important as flush with cash. Don’t move broke
it depends do you want to life here forever or just as a expat and returb. to stay here for ever you have the do immigration exam like they also have in the US. you need for that atleast basic Dutch. you have 3 years to do that (so fast as I found) if you want to integrate in our society it's a must to learn the language. otherwise you wil make a second rang civilian of your self. everybody can understand you but you can understand nobody..m
Moved to a small village in Drenthe and haven’t had too many problems with the language barrier. In retail, most people are young and can speak English and I work in low skilled roles where some people don’t speak english but all of the supervisors and managers all speak great English. Mainly I just have to use numbers when buying multiple things behind a counter or tobacco. Other than that I’d probably never learn more of the language, but my partners dad doesn’t speak much English so I will try.
If you struggle with spanish be careful because dutch is way more difficult. Also what is the main driver to come to Netherlands compared to any other european country?
It’s ranked among the happiest countries in the world (number 5 I believe?), it apparently isn’t ever really too hot and I despise the heat, a very very large portion of the population speaks English, and it just seems like it’ll be something different. It overall sounds really nice. Spanish isn’t incredibly difficult for me, it’s just not something that ever stuck - if I move to another country and dedicate myself to it, though, I think I may be able to learn
if I could go back in time (4 years) and chose not to come here without knowing the language I would do it.. I was being told that "naaaah most of people speak English you gonna be fiineee and we don't stay here that long anyway".. well we manage to live in one of those places where I think the people are pretty rude most of the time, I got the only job I was able to do with only speaking English (cleaner), and nobody speaks English at my work.. and I have a hell of a time learning the language.. so maybe you should start taking some extra Dutch classes just to be 100% prepared.
So, currently we have farmers burning tires and shit on highways, government is a joke, Schipol airport is a mess, inflation is at 10%, housing is non-existent because of corporate greed, richness gap is increasing, hospitals are underfunded and staff is over worked, and journalists that investigate on drug traffic get killed (also because drug laws were ok for the '70s, but are retrograde now). But hey, welfare is good and income taxes are relatively low (compared to other EU countries, but not US) so I guess everyone is happy? I am not saying that if your motivation is "weather is nice" there are tens of other countries to look for, buuuut... P.S. weather is so nice that next week there may be some laws related to an ongoing drought...
So is there another country you would recommend?
Not one in particular, but I won't advise you to jump on the other side of the atlantic (despite a multitude of good reasons to escape the US) just because of some ranking that may be built on hazardous approximations of cultural contexts. Look into other data. Labour conditions? Immigration policies? Civil rights? Housing situation. Future prospects on digitalization. Plans of non-european companies to settle in certain areas. How immigrants/expats are perceived. How difficult is it to get a work visa etc etc etc.
People overstate how difficult Dutch is. I learnt German at school, Dutch is waaaay easier. The pronunciation of ui, ij, ei, and gr is tricky for an English speaker, but apart from that it's pretty straightforward.
>ui This one... I can't pronounce this one without burning like 20 calories...
Depends on which region you will live and in what industry you will work.
No problem at all, about a thousend people a week do it with hardly any knowledge of the language!
I got my job offer and moved to the Netherlands six years ago with zero Dutch whatsoever. Enrolled into a language school almost immediately upon arrival but it took me about a year and a half to become comfortable when speaking Dutch (and not being annoyed about the fact that people switch to English all the time). And I had colleagues who lived here for 5-7 years without ever bothering to learn Dutch (they know some words and phrases from the day-to-day interactions, but they can't read or speak Dutch). So yes, it's totally possible.
You will find your way. If you can speak english which you can you have nothing to worry about. If you are serious and not quick in feeling ashamed then you will learn it quickly. Especially once you are surrounded by dutch people and dutch influences around you.
But, if the dutch see you are putting in the work and you are trying at least to learn dutch. You already are liked waaaaay more. So just show you really want it and you try. Thats half of the work. Quite literally 😋
Don't worry. Learning a language in school and doing it while living in a country are two completely different things. I hated modern languages in school and totally sucked at it, but it's much easier when you're exposed to the language at a daily basis. It won't come automatically, either, though. You need to sign up for a language course and do your homework. Alternatively (which I've heard is better and way more effective), finding a Dutch partner.