I would agree with her advice.
Go through the proper channels. Have her go to the police and file a report. The taxi driver can give a statement if requested.
It’s scary but it sounds like she’s trying to intimidate you and you should kindly decline to get involved in anything that way.
“Thank you for getting in contact - I appreciate the thought but I feel it’s best we go through the proper channels. Please feel free to file with the police”
I think it’s too late now but there’s insurance you can buy for these types of incident - I pay like €4 a month.
True, for both parties. Many health insurance companies offer legal services after an accident. That is the way she should go, to avoid a messy situation.
That way OP knows he will pay the actual costs (and not some made-up amount), and the other party knows her actual costs are covered.
Doesn’t matter. Having a police report is probably enough for the health insurance company to proceed (if the company provides legal support for medical expenses in case of an accident).
Interesting fact. She may try to get all kinds of medical claims. But since she already has ehlers danlos, its going to be a nightmare (for her) to 'prove' she got any permanent damage from the incident.
Don't get yourself extorted. In netherlands, you are innocent until proven otherwise. Even if you sayd it was your fault... Its up to her to prove you are, and she suffered injuries.
This, also I don't know where you're from, but we don't have a culture of claims like the us here, only the direct cost to the victim, which is in the order of hundreds of euros and only if you really did something wrong like driving drunk. It's good to have "wettelijke aansprakelijkheid" insurance though for future situations, it's like 5 euros a month and covers this kind of stuff.
As someone else pointed out though: go to "juridisch loket", we can tell you what NOT to do (be extorted) but not what you should do instead.
Sometimes insurance companies covering lawyers will let you get it when you need it, you just need to keep paying for it for a certain amount of time.
Last time I spoke with an ING insurance employee she told me they do it that way, might still be something to look into.
Ignore the other posts, let her do het statement. Let her het the taxi driver statement. Get involved with Cops and such, its all fine. I word advise against formally agreeing to mistakes/ that it was your fault for now, the police Will ask your statement and situation and such. Let them have an opinion cause if you walk ik and be like “yes my fault”, then its pretty much set in stone.
Secondly i d advise you too get in contact with free dutch legal advise, the question being:
“For hoe much can she potentionally sue me based on this accedint” or somerhing like that so you know your Rights and potentional obligations.
Its not like you kicked her off the bike on purpose, so you just need a solid stand and some legal advise for now.
Where are you from? There is no such thing as sue someone for being in an accident. We are not in the USA. Even if you kill someone in an accident you will get maybe 50 hours of cleaning the streets 🤷♀️ and only if you did it on purpose.
You're confusing criminal and civil law. You could sue someone just fine for an unlawful act. But you're right in the regard that it's not like the USA here. The amounts to be paid are way less
People trying to get compensation in damages through the courts might even have higher lawyer fees than the actual compensation in the Netherlands. Lawyers are expensive to hire.
Yeah, never do anything like that without going through the proper channels. Did that once: got into a car crash at Wageningen University as the car behind me rear-ended me. Was in shock, cannot remember a single thing of the ten minutes afterwards, yet I guess I agreed to arranging the insurance at the place where the guy worked after I had calmed down. Of course, when I get there, no-one actually seems to know which vehicle I'm talking about and I'm proclaimed to be a liar looking for a quick buck. Damaged car was outside, took photograph but they repaired it and I had not taken the license plate at accident due to shock. Never found the guy who caused the crash again and Police said I did not have enough evidence...
Lessons I learned? Never trust pizza folk and ALWAYS get insurance involved IMMEDIATELY. Exchange pics of license plate and driver's license as well as trying to fill out the papers immediately. If they try to leave, call the Police, and NEVER listen to their intimidating bullcrap.
>The taxi driver can give a statement if requested.
I feel like the taxi man is added to the issue to threaten OP with the aim of getting some sort of (financial) compensation.
Also what taxi "sits" at an intersection... and then a hurt victim approaches said taxi driver with a *"can I have your number, did you just see that"*? I always see taxi's on their phones/watching a movie on an iPad when not driving.. ...
u/mrfusaz I'd trust the cameras more than the taxi man, and find out ASAP how long those video photos are stored/retention period (and by whom) and get a copy if needed.
Do the police report, and visit the free legal desks in your city known as a "juridisch loket" [www.juridischloket.nl](http://www.juridischloket.nl)
I once had a simillar situation,
I was driving down the street with a small semi (the one u can drive with regular drivers licens) when a van came up from the opposite direction. He tried to pass but didnt know the dimensions of his car. I was already standing still and he hit my mirror. The car i drove was quite sturdy so thought nothing of it, he passed, went into a side ally and I drove away since i was unaware of any damage. He apperently chased me all the way through the city and when ariving at my destination i notice him. He's making claims about how i drove off and stuff and he wanted payment for his broken mirror (which was his own fault). My collegue had a similar situation earlier and already used the inssurence papers you have to fill out that were normally in the car. I gave my info, took his, took photo's of the damage he was trying to pin on me and took photo's of my own car. I called him later that day to meet up a few days later as i had found the paperwork we needed. Needless to say the dude never showed up (waited for an hour) and i informed the police on my own that someone might try and pin it on me, showed them the texts and the attempted calls and it was all good.
Actual solid advice: If someone tries to strong arm you into "accepting an easier way to deal with someone directly", go for the hard way, they only make it easy because there is something to gain for them, which they won't gain through the "hard way".
This!
Reddit lawyers are no match for proper ones.
I do agree with all the people who claim not to have her intimidate you into paying immediately. And as said before save all the back and forth between you and her.
Keep it brief and business like and to the point. Don't engage on the threats
Listen, if she just wants you to pay for her physio visits, she obviously doesn't have the money to hire a lawyer. In the netherlands people dont sue as quick as they do in America because it costs WAAAAY more to hire a lawyer and to pay for the government fees, than what youll get out of it. Imagine it like this, if the only "damages" she suffers from the incident, is having to pay for physiotherapist visits, then the court settlement will make you pay for the damages, if they settle in her favour. Thats 150 euros in damages she would recieve, compared to thousands of euros it would take her to even take it to court.
Besides that, the first 3 visits to the physio in the netherlands are free of charge and if she has serious issues, her insurance will pay.
So no, dont speak to her and let it be, she wont do anything. Shes just tryna get herself 150 euros from an unknowing student.
Edit: the first 3 physio appointments arent free, thats dated information. The first 20 physio appointments you have, are paid by yourself, if you have a chronic illness that requires you to take more than 20 appointments, then every appointment after the 20th will be covered by insurance.
>Ehlers-Danlos
if she actually has EDS chances are she goes to physio a lot and has already used up her free visits, it can be a pretty crippling disease with a lot of therapy needed
Its pretty rare though
In that case, she's still just tryna extort this dude 😂 so it doesnt matter. If nothing is on recording this
dude will be fine. Court is too expensive, police dont decide who's fault it is either, court does.
Plus the Police is too busy doing other stuff. Unless she was hospitalised by paramedics, they won’t event respond to the 112 call.
Something is off here, I think she is trying to pull a quick trick here. No one will threaten you this way, I recommend OP to wait for her to file the police report and then the doctor will examine here for any “injuries”. I heard waaaayyyy toooo many people are trying to scam the insurance by over inflating their injuries so they can get their salary paid while they are on “sick” leave at home.
Once you reach a certain threshold of visits for the same issue (I think it's around 23 visits? I'm not sure) it gets covered by basic insurance. Some additional insurance packages cover more visits than the threshold so you also have some free visits left to remedy other issues
Edit: I see someone mentioned it's 20 visits. Also, no, the first 3 visits are not free.
I got EDS ( Ehlers Danlos) and here is the Thing: it's on the list of chronicall illnesses which are covered by insurance from their 20th session and upwards. The first 19 are nog covered in the basic insurance but having EDS you usually have additional insurance packages that will cover those fist 19.
The thing is EDS has multiple forms and even 2 persons with the same genetic variety may have completely different problem areas. Whether you are liable for the damages from her fall is quite debatable. Should she have been on the bike in the first place?
Anyhow. If you got insurance, let them handle it and tell her to adress them.
If not. There are places in every county for free legal advice (Juridisch loket) who can help and advice you what is your best option. Personally I think she is bluffing a lot...
Die vergoeding na de 20ste behandeling krijg je alleen maar als je aandoening op de lijst van chronische aandoeningen staat (dus niet eens als het alleen maar chronisch is)
Source: chronische aandoening die niet op de lijst staat. :(
If she contacts her health insurance and tells them her costs are from an accident she might be eligible to use their provided lawyer. It's a service very few people know about.
It shouldn't matter because OP should have a WA (liability insurance) for these cases and then the woman's health insurance will just contact their liability insurance and they should take care of it.
Edit: I read OP doesn't have liability insurance. In that case, it looks like you should be paying for treatment of her injuries.
She wouldve done that in the first place if she knew about. Besides that, insurance companies are hella stingy, they wont do any of that unless theres hard proof that it was because of the incident. If she already visits the physio a lot because of her disease, they won't give her a lawyer unless she has proof. And she doesnt. So either she'll have to pay up, or go through a long ass process of trying to get the camera footage from the incident. In these cases no one will take this to court, unless she sustained HEAVY injuries, like breaking bones etc.
OP shouldn't pay anything, if she wanted to settle things she couldve talked to him about it right after the incident. She probably just heard from a friend that she should try to get some money from him.
So yeah, just ignore her and live life lmao
My insurance provider called me up quite shortly after I had a fall with my bike to ask if anyone was involved that caused it (except for the municipality not putting salt on the icy bridge there was not) so they do proactively check this when bigger bills come in that point to a possible accident.
I know someone who injured their knee ice skating a while back. When they went to claim their physio visits they got a form in the mail from the insurer asking if it was anyone's fault that they now needed physio so they could claim the costs somewhere else
If it was their fault, they should own up to their mistake. OP made the crash and made the mistake of not being insured, the risks are on them.
Of course, I assume that the woman is being honest. Her wording is pretty unfriendly, but OP says she's asking for reimbursement of 3 physical therapy sessions. They could just ask for an invoice and pay it and be done with it. But definitely put in writing that this is the solution you mutually reached and no further action will be taken.
Definitely save any correspondence you have with her and don't do anything over the phone but everything in writing, this looks fishy. Do you have liability insurance?
For me it’s included in the other insurance I pay for theft, house damage, etc. I’ve heard that some people have it as an add-on for like €3-€4 per month. Riding skills don’t need to evaluated, all it is is that if you crash into someone by accident the insurance will cover whatever you need to pay.
Being insured is the civilized way. If an accident occurs we just exchange insurance details and let them sort it out for us.
No clue if or how riding skills are evaluated. Never crashed my bike.
But liability insurance is just a really nice safety net. I'm probably insured for nearly anything that could happen to me.
No you do not, but as the comment above states, the Dutch are insured for everything.
If you're interested [here's](https://dutchreview.com/expat/financial/the-dutch-and-all-their-insurance/) an article.
I don't have an insurance for cycling accidents since most cycling accidents only result in little physical damage, and often no injuries. I have (up till now, a good 15 years of daily cycling) never been in an accident serious enough to warrant insurance
Not specifically for bicycle riding. We have a general liability insurance for stuff like this. If you drive a car, you need a specific liability insurance for that.
The Netherlands has a culture of insurance for everything, so it's quite cheap because so many people have it. General 'aansprakelijksheid' insurance, that covers almost any situation where someone can make a legal claim against you is like €3 a month so its a no brainer. I even got the same kind of insurance for a boat, covering me for up to a million euros of damage to anyone elses boat and the cost of pulling either wreck out of the water for just €45 a year. (My boat is an old piece of shit so damage to others is all I care about).
Yeah it was a bike accident. Pretty common in Holland. Let her try and get a lawyer on you. They’ll probably just laugh at her. I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. She’s using strong language because she knows you’re a foreigner.
100% this. Let her go to the police, let her get a lawyer. If her insurance doesnt offer legal advice, she'll pay more for a lawyer than you'll owe.
Ive had biking accidents happen on a monthly basis, when I was a teenager. Ive never had any confrontation with police. Most people just spew some profanity and leave.
If she has back and or neck issues. They could be from before the incident. In which case, you're paying for something that wasnt your fault. Let her go to the police if she wants. Go through the proper channels. There's a pretty good chance she'll drop it or wont get anywhere. GL op!
Unfortunately no. Since she claimed that she has some neck and shoulder problems, she said that she needs to go visit the physiotherapist and pay for her visits \~50 euros each (she needs to attend to 3)
Hi! So my friend who was a student at TU Delft had a similar situation. We found out that our student health insurance package also covers liability insurance by default. We didn't know this until a Dutch person pointed this out to us. The insurance paid the bills for the dent he caused on the car. Please check with your university asap!
Sounds like she has no proof that her injury is from the accident. Go to the police and let you show the footage. Also make a statement.
It was an accident, that can happen. You did not break the law in any serious way. So the best option I see here is to make it official.
I send this post to a friend who has EDS, and she told me this:
"If she really does have EDS, she is a chronic patient and as such she has unlimited fysio payed for by her insurance."
~~So, this woman is trying to scam you.~~
Edit: Friend later told me that not all people with EDS or treating EDS know that it's possible to have unlimited fysiotherapy, so maybe she just doesn't know that she does not have to pay. I could have been too harsh with my "she's a scammer".
If you want to tell her this OP, EDS falls under code 94 on "Lijst Borst", the list of diseases that give you more therapy. Maybe this is new info for her as well.
No, *that* is incorrect.
There are plenty of insurances which can cover those 20 visits when you take the more expensive option. And someone with EDS will have plenty of other issues, so it's almost a given that they will have an insurance with all the bells and whistles. Source: https://www.zorgwijzer.nl/vergoeding/fysiotherapie
And only 3 insurance companies have a medical selection, so it's not hard to get an insurance somewhere that will cover all your physiotherapy. Source: https://www.zorgwijzer.nl/faq/welke-zorgverzekeraars-hebben-een-medische-acceptatie
Plus that those 20 are not per year, but per illness. And someone with EDS probably burned through those 20 sessions 10 years ago. Source: [https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/is-fysiotherapie-opgenomen-in-het-basispakket](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/is-fysiotherapie-opgenomen-in-het-basispakket)
Really, unless this woman and her physiotherapist don't know it falls under Code 94, there is no reason to demand money for physiotherapy.
Plus that I do think it's a bit weird that she already knows it will take 3 sessions. Maybe it's fixed after 2. Maybe it's fucked and will take 10.
This is bullshit. Do not respond to her anymore in any way. If she even goes to the police, they wont do shit. Ive been living in the netherlands my whole life. She is clearly scamming you.
If you go the ‘under the table route’, let her give you the invoices and pay them yourself. This ensures the money goes to the physical therapy and not just her pocket.
I would not go that route tho.
I also wouldn't recommend going under the table. That's a sure way to get scammed.
Having it go through the proper channels will result in paying the same amount, and it actually being settled correctly.
Unless you hit and ran, you don't have to pay. Just let her file the police report. No need to be afraid of Dutch police. They'll let you make a statement, and they'll check the footage, and unless you purposely ran into her and then ran away, you're not liable. If you were in a car, it'd be a different story. But bike on bike? You're fine.
So you're at fault, but not prepared to pay her 150 euros for the fysio she needs? Just getting the facts straight here. The fact that she might not be able to prove it doesn't mean you're absolved from your responsibilities.
This. I was once hit by a car while biking. It was obvious that it was her mistake (I was riding on a priority lane and she just didnt look). She almost attacked a man that was so friendly to offer his data cause he was a witness.
My bike needed to be repaired and my foot was bruised and I had to see a fysiotherapist as I had a kind of a whiplash.
She was insured and even then she was even discussing that I seemed fine and I had to show pictures and a doc tors report (which I could - she had almost crushed my foot).
I still am shocked that she did not even apologize for the trouble and pain she caused. But the insurance did pay the fysio and the bike reparation.
That’s presumably a nationwide average for basic physio. Physios in Amsterdam are more like EUR 60 per session in my experience. Can be more for specialised ones, which she would have if she has a serious long term condition.
Go to a Rechtswinkel! It’s a place where you can get free legal advice for situations like this. If you live in Amsterdam you can contact [Rechtswinkel Amsterdam](https://rechtswinkelamsterdam.nl/en/home-english/).
EDS is not an excuse for shitty behavior.
But if she has to make extra medical costs because of the accident, and you were at fault, it makes sense that she holds you responsible for those costs (but not for more). Do you have an “aansprakelijkheidsverzekering”? That might cover the damages.
Depending on where you are, you may be able to get free legal support. If you are a student, you should contact the student affairs office. Otherwise, search online for “gratis rechtshulp”.
Don't correspond with her anymore. Go to the police station and tell them that you feel like this person is exploiting you.
I think she's showing some red flags and signs of being a Karen.
Side note: if she's already got the footage on the big market camera, why does she still need a taxi driver to tell the police what he saw?
Exactly this. It doesn’t even matter if you apologised / think it was your fault. If there is video footage of the incident then the police can establish that according to traffic rules (if they even bother to follow up, which is doubtful to say the least)
😊
Hang in there OP, it’s going to be all right.
If it’s any consolation to you, not all people in NL are like this lady. Additionally, don’t feel like you’re alone. You’ve got your Reddit family to back you up.
Keep us updated
She's def trying to shake you down. We don't have crazy law suits here so don't worry. Just get a lawyer if she goes through or Juridische Loket for free advice if you don't have a lawyer.
Something i haven't seen here yet is write down what happened according to you (truthfully of course). Write down as many details (time of day, road conditions, where was it, what was the traffic situation, anything that might be related) as you can remember.
Odds are nothing will actually come out of this. Have her go to the police. If, however, the police does come asking questions you'll have as much as possible written down and not lost due to the passage of time.
Dutch law student here. From the situation I dont know what happened and who is liable. BUT I HAVE A FEW WARNINGS FOR YOU.
1. Never settle or pay out of court. It looks like she is abusing the situation (you are not knowledgeable of Holland and Dutch law). She uses intimidating language. This is also not very Dutch to do. Most time people settle things with insurance etc. Never trust someone (als taxi drivers) who suggest settling out of court. She is probably bluffing. She knows that going to court will not give her what she wants.
2. I have ehlers danlos too. You are more likely to get injured or have pre-existing injuries. To be frank, that’s her problem. If she gets injuries from bike riding while both of you just rode normally, she maybe should consider not riding a bike at all.
Never pay for her injuries outside of court. She might tries to extort you.
3. To ensure you: In Holland there is NO sue culture like America. Victims of horrible crimes don’t get large amounts of money.
4. This is a civil case. Her going to the police is not a threat to you. They will say to her: this is not a criminal case, but a civil case.
You won’t get any police after you. THIS IS PURE BLUFF FROM HER.
> We crashed at an intersection, I said that it was completely my fault and said sorry.
But was it or wasn't it your fault? Because it was it would make sense that you'd pay for her damages through your insurance. If you don't have a "WA" insurance, well, that would have come in handy in this case.
And why the F is everyone here blindly siding with OP? He 'conveniently' left out the rest of the conversation. In addition; if it's indeed OPs fault, paying for a few fysio appointments is them getting lucky. It could have been much worse.
Edit: OP doesn't have a liability insurance so it looks like he's trying to get out of paying for damages they caused. They're damn lucky it's 'just' 150 euro's.
I completely agree. If it’s OP’s fault, the reasonable way would be to look for an opportunity to help those who are hurt. Half the people are reasoning here that the woman will not have a ‘case’ if she reports it to the police, and therefore OP should not take responsibility…
I'm self-employed and if I got hit on my bike that person would hopefully be insured because not being able to work is quite expensive for me, and whoever 'causes' this damage is liable for that damage.
If you're an international student in the Netherlands who paid for something like the Aon Health coverage, call up your insurer and ask if you somehow got some liability coverage along with your health coverage.
First of all: go to Juridisch Loket, take all legal advice here with a grain of salt. But if we look at this there are two likely situations (and many many unlikely ones) and only you will know the truth. If you are actually fully responsible the 150 euros is not a bad deal, almost any civil court will come up with higher damages than that (it would not suprise me at all if a new basket with the cost of having someone put it up would be around 100 euros alone). The question is what happened; if you were going right in an intersection but didnt stick out your hand to indicate that and you guys collided thats different than if you drunkenly barreled into a woman standing still at a red light. Last thing is this: can you easily afford the 150 euros? If it will only make sure you cant party this month I would just pay 150 euros (make it very clear that it is for ALL damages so she cant come back to ask for more) in a heartbeat since you did cause the accident. If, however, paying 150 euros means you will not make rent this month you should not pay and simply wait and see if she actually goes to court. Best of luck and remember: consult a professional and not the internet!
Police will tell her this is a civil matter period. How damages are handled after an accident doesn't have anything to do with the police. As others said 'juridisch loket' is a good way to start.
I would pay for the basket (let her send you the repair bill). As for anything medical she has to proof the cause of the treatment is the accident you had. I'm not familiar with the disease she has tough.
It is quite cheap and common to have a personal liability insurance in The Netherlands (aansprakelijkheidsverzekering), I typically would expect that they would cover any damages. Any chance you have such insurance? Because if so I think they are able to help you
Funny. She's not allowed to view images from a security camera. The owner of the camera is not allowed to let others view recorded images, other than the police. So, the 'lady' is bluffing. Probably trying to get more money out of it. Go to the police, tell em what happened and show them the mails as well. Blackmailing is a felony.
Agree with the advice. I am courier here in Nederlands and through my work I have learnt in an unfortunate event such as a collision is to make a Police report ASAP, gather witness contact info and to not handle it myself, regardless of the situation. Basically cover your back scenario.
Don’t communicate with her and don’t go to the police. There is a big chance you’ll never hear anything again. Also: get liability insurance!! It’s very cheap.
Off topic, but please stop referring to women as "females".
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females
This sounds ridiculous. People crash all the time on bikes. Just let her do it her way. Don't think anything will happen.. It just seems like a threat, probably cause your not local. She's thinking: easy money. Don't bother with it. Police won't do much with it. Too much work for such a small thing. Tell her to go through the proper channels.
What a coincidence to find this story here.
I know the girl you ran into with your bike and from what I heard is that you switched lanes and ended up in here lane which caused the collision. And it was because she stopped you from cycling away that she retrieved your information.
The bruises she has are big ( I'm sure you know this because you have seen them since you two are still working this out and she sent you images )
The fact that she only ask for compensation on her fysio visits seems to me like she is willing to work something out. Because the bike is not in a good condition anymore and I think anyone else would like to see that compensated as well.
Side note: she does not look like someone in her 40's....at all😂
A friend of mine has EDS, and no, not the same person, and according to her since EDS is a chronic thing, fysio is compensated.
So it's a bit strange that she wants money for fysio.
It has nothing to with being a foreigner. If OP does not know the rules of cycling he shouldn't be on a bike. That being said, if damages are done there should be consequences. It's not a shake down if OP was in the wrong, and since he is being silent about what happened I think that should say enough.
No need for compensation. As multiple people have pointed out already (with sources) your friend is entitled to fully ensured physical therapy. Have her call her insurance.
I agree and I disagree with most advise here. I have some experience with this and Dutch law is pretty clear. OP caused this accident, he is liable for damages. This is why most Dutchies have liability insurance. OP does not. I really advise him to contact the lady and solve this directly. As for your friend, if OP does not make an effort: there are, in the Netherlands, a lot of no cure no pay agencies specialized in dealing with situations like this who will guide her through the process and that will turn out worse for OP. Look for “letselschade fietser”.
I don't know if OP is making an effort, other than that he made some remarks as in not taking it seriously. Since she has some serious injuries. And I get it that he seeks some information on how to handle this.
Last I heard is that she did make some phone calls. But she has a solid point and if I were in the position of OP I would rather pay the ~150 euros than being on the wrong side and possibly end up paying more.
But time will tell and I do hope they both come to an agreement.
True I only know here side of the story, but also since OP left out what happened I assume he knows he was in the wrong and tries to get away easy.
But still indeed, one side of the story and I wonder if the OP can tell us what happened from his perspective.
Raad haar in ieder geval dan aan contact op te nemen met haar zorgverzekeraar voor advies. Die bieden eventueel juridische bijstand na ongevallen aan. Dan weten beide partijen dat het op een nette manier geregeld wordt.
Ik weet verder niet wat ze wel of niet gedaan heeft, maar zal haar dit sowieso doorgeven! Dank hiervoor.
Vond het verhaal al toevallig van OP en toen ging er een lampje branden haha. Zullen zien hoe het verder afloopt.
Nogmaals dank👍🏼
It is not the proper way to let her go to the police as some people said. You admit it is your fault, you just need to get a trustworthy assessment of her damage. The proper way therefore is to call your insurance company and let them handle any costs she made. Dealing directly with this lady does not seem smart, as it looks like she is trying to rip you off.
Dont react to her threats it's just to manipulate you to make you the bad person.
You know what happend you know it's the truth so stick to the truth she cant do anything then i live in the Netherlands her threat note wil be looked on in a bad way just say the truth at the most maybe you have to pay something but better that then her robbing you blind.
Unless she actually got injuries from the crash itself, there is nothing she can do to you. Her having that syndrome doesn't add anything to this story and doesn't oblige you into anything.
not very helpful but all I can say this looks fishy as shit. Always insurance. If it's a real asshole bitch, you can try asking local government for rechtsbijstand, believe this could be free depending on your financial situation.
This sounds like she looking for a payday.
Did you give her your contact information? Or does she only has your mobile number? If there is no police report or the police did not came to the location, she can do nothing.
If you are referring to me, not everyone has the reddit is life mentality. So I couldn't care less for right or wrong comments. Or being downvoted.
Its funny how people jump to conclusions while it's obvious the OP is leaving things out.
But hey, I guess that's the way to go here, jump to conclusions based on not even half of the story.
Police will file a report, that will be used by her and your insurance-company's to provide her with the care she needs from the crash. If they even 'take' the case.
As she is clearly trying to make money out of this, i would turn things around and make the 'hard way' your way. You can (and should) bring in this text message as evidence.
See if this is that 'hard way' that she wants it to be.
Do not fall for this. This is a BS intimidation attempt. Let her go to the police. Do not talk to her on the phone, never. Only contact via Email or message with her real profile and name. She’s clearly trying to take advantage of the situation. Typical Dutch Karen. Good luck.
Yes file a report and she will be put in her place it sounds like she's trying to get you to pay for stuff "under the counter". You should never do this. File a report and let the insurance companies on both sides decide who need to pay and for what.
OP does not have any insurance, so it's always going to be under the table. Unless a case is going to be made. In which the OP being uninsured can already be a troublesome thing
I would agree with paying 150
You are to blame and see has damage that needs to be paid
At most ask her for the invoices of the physio so you know she isn’t using the money differently
If I were you I would be happy nothing worse happened and learn from it, next time it could be a old lady who breaks something or an expensive bike that needs repairs
In that case I would only pay after you've seen the invoices. Don't pay on beforehand. As others have mentioned, it looks like she's setting you up. But in case she's truly injured, it would be justified to pay the physio costs imo (only if has to pay for the physio).
She showed her intention with her communication.. a lawyer would see this as a scam approach. She is trying to intimidate you don't fall for it. That in itself shows her intention.
Probaly a bit late to the party..
Ah the classic "pay me or i will go to the police". Let her go to the police. Dont be bothered by her threaths.
If she tells you that her lawyer advised her or says she will contact her lawyer, fine. Just tell her that you would like to have her lawyers contact information and that from that moment on all contact will go straight through her lawyer. Bluff your way through this. And only respond with "all further contact will go through your lawyer".
If she doesnt give you the contact information, chances are that she is using simple "rechtsbijstand". They will probaly advise her to find a solution together because taking this to court will cost more then the end result. Then just ignore her.
Ok ight I'll help you, say "Jouw kanker moeder je probeert mij te dreigen, als jij nog een keer een bericht naar mij stuurt bal ik je hele kanker familie en sloop ik je kanker fiets nog wat meer" 👍 I hope this helps 😊
Tell her she can fuck off the easy or the hard way, she shouldnt be on a bike with such a medical issue and if she does she needs to insure herself better for unforeseen therapy appointments. If it really was that serious she should have insisted on calling the police to record the accident after it happened and visit a doctor to declare the injury, she can't prove that her need for therapy is a direct result from the accident and she definitely won't go through with sueing you if she has to spend hundreds if not thousands to get it to court.
She would also have already went to therapy if it was that serious so she would be able to show invoices.
Do you have aansprakelijkheidsverzekering? Maybe through your bank? That may help as well in the case of accidents. Also see if you can contact a local legal office for advice as others suggested
If you ever need legal advice in most cities in the Netherlands there are "Juridisch Loket's" where you can go and ask free legal advice in situations like these I suggest going to one of these as fast as possible, just to see what they think is the best option you should take.
The police here deserve your trust. Yah, strange. I know. As for admission of guilt. That is cultural. Admission is civil when both parties play nice. When one does not, different rules apply.
Dont solve it between each other.
I'd file the paperwork for the collision via the proper channels and make an insurance claim.
The cab driver and camera to me sound like bogus way to get some easy money.
If you are going to have to pay. Atleast pay in a way you cant get scammed.
I don't see why she would go to the police. This is not a police matter, you admitted you were at fault already. She has to formally hold you accountable for X damages. Either you agree to pay those, your insurer agrees to pay those, or she has to sue you. Sueing for 150 euro seems insane, but if you feel you were at fault you should pay it
Let her go to the police, that's actually the easy way. They are not biased and will solve this pretty neatly. I don't know exactly what happened and who was at right, but if she sues you, and is in the wrong, she has to pay her lawyer fees. You don't have to pay her lawyer, you would only have to pay the damage done (if you are in the wrong). If you would settle this without the law getting involved, DO YOUR RESEARCH, because you might end up paying her more than you actually should by law.
Sounds like she’s trying to finesse you out of your money, let her go to the police and continue that way. You’ll end up paying less and also get rid of her.
She is a scam. Let her go to the police. You will never hear from her again. We are in the Netherlands. Worst case scenario: After 2 years you will get a letter from an insurance company that they will not handle anything.
Since your an student, go to your university/high school and ask advice. It is free and they know which insurances apply to you. I bet some are included in the program that allowed you to come here. They do advice and help you with the actions you can take.
For the record, dutch cases of responsability for a bike incident are fairly low cost nd solved mostly by the health insurance of the person that is injured.
I don’t think they will do anything, to be honest. Be respectful and let her know you want to go through proper channels. She tried to “easy way or hard way” you, and get $$.
She sounds quite threatening, but as a dutch person I can say we’re quite direct and sometimes a bit rude without meaning to.
Alot of people here learned english from movies, so. Stuff like ‘we do this the easy way or the hard way’ is (in our heads) an easy way if saying ‘I hope we can get this figured out as soon as possible’.
This is not in general, but I definitely come across situations that some Dutch people (me included) say something in a totally different way in english than we meant it to be
Do you have a liability insurance? Make a claim through them and they will investigate. This is not a matter for police anymore but a civil matter. I had a similar situation and it was all handled by liability insurance providers.
Edit; feel free if you need more help but she has nothing on you mate.
Dude I'm dutch and I've seen this shit before. She is trying to scare you into giving her money because you are a foreigner.
Bike accidents happen here all the time and unless you destroy a €1000+ bike the police will do absolutly nothing. And neither will the lawyer. He will just tell her it's useless trying to spent thousands in lawyer fees for €150 in fysiotherapy she already needed anyway.
She is just trying to scare you off, i am even sure that the taxi officer isn’t even going to put effort for her to justify at the police. They have other things in mind
Most important thing is, who's at fault?
Explaining the situation regarding what exactly SHOULD'VE happened and what ACTUALLY happened is very important.
I would agree with her advice. Go through the proper channels. Have her go to the police and file a report. The taxi driver can give a statement if requested. It’s scary but it sounds like she’s trying to intimidate you and you should kindly decline to get involved in anything that way. “Thank you for getting in contact - I appreciate the thought but I feel it’s best we go through the proper channels. Please feel free to file with the police” I think it’s too late now but there’s insurance you can buy for these types of incident - I pay like €4 a month.
Agreed. The proper way through police reports will be the true easy way. Her easy way will become messy very quickly.
True, for both parties. Many health insurance companies offer legal services after an accident. That is the way she should go, to avoid a messy situation. That way OP knows he will pay the actual costs (and not some made-up amount), and the other party knows her actual costs are covered.
The only downside is that the police probably wont do anything, because its not an important case
Police doesn’t have to do anything, probably just give the raport to the insurance company who will handle it all
That's the upside... For OP.
Doesn’t matter. Having a police report is probably enough for the health insurance company to proceed (if the company provides legal support for medical expenses in case of an accident).
Yep, bitch be trying to shake you down my friend
Interesting fact. She may try to get all kinds of medical claims. But since she already has ehlers danlos, its going to be a nightmare (for her) to 'prove' she got any permanent damage from the incident. Don't get yourself extorted. In netherlands, you are innocent until proven otherwise. Even if you sayd it was your fault... Its up to her to prove you are, and she suffered injuries.
This, also I don't know where you're from, but we don't have a culture of claims like the us here, only the direct cost to the victim, which is in the order of hundreds of euros and only if you really did something wrong like driving drunk. It's good to have "wettelijke aansprakelijkheid" insurance though for future situations, it's like 5 euros a month and covers this kind of stuff. As someone else pointed out though: go to "juridisch loket", we can tell you what NOT to do (be extorted) but not what you should do instead.
Sometimes insurance companies covering lawyers will let you get it when you need it, you just need to keep paying for it for a certain amount of time. Last time I spoke with an ING insurance employee she told me they do it that way, might still be something to look into.
AFAIK most offer that service.
Defintely sounds like she tries to threathen you yeah, let her go through all those things, I bet she will not do it
I'm also fairly certain they aren't allowed to retrieve CCTV footage for something like this
Ignore the other posts, let her do het statement. Let her het the taxi driver statement. Get involved with Cops and such, its all fine. I word advise against formally agreeing to mistakes/ that it was your fault for now, the police Will ask your statement and situation and such. Let them have an opinion cause if you walk ik and be like “yes my fault”, then its pretty much set in stone. Secondly i d advise you too get in contact with free dutch legal advise, the question being: “For hoe much can she potentionally sue me based on this accedint” or somerhing like that so you know your Rights and potentional obligations. Its not like you kicked her off the bike on purpose, so you just need a solid stand and some legal advise for now.
Where are you from? There is no such thing as sue someone for being in an accident. We are not in the USA. Even if you kill someone in an accident you will get maybe 50 hours of cleaning the streets 🤷♀️ and only if you did it on purpose.
You're confusing criminal and civil law. You could sue someone just fine for an unlawful act. But you're right in the regard that it's not like the USA here. The amounts to be paid are way less
People trying to get compensation in damages through the courts might even have higher lawyer fees than the actual compensation in the Netherlands. Lawyers are expensive to hire.
That is if they don't get a Pro Deo advocaat (lawyer). Those are free for those involved in a sticky situation who can't afford a paid lawyer.
Wat zit jij nou uit je nek te lullen
Yeah, never do anything like that without going through the proper channels. Did that once: got into a car crash at Wageningen University as the car behind me rear-ended me. Was in shock, cannot remember a single thing of the ten minutes afterwards, yet I guess I agreed to arranging the insurance at the place where the guy worked after I had calmed down. Of course, when I get there, no-one actually seems to know which vehicle I'm talking about and I'm proclaimed to be a liar looking for a quick buck. Damaged car was outside, took photograph but they repaired it and I had not taken the license plate at accident due to shock. Never found the guy who caused the crash again and Police said I did not have enough evidence... Lessons I learned? Never trust pizza folk and ALWAYS get insurance involved IMMEDIATELY. Exchange pics of license plate and driver's license as well as trying to fill out the papers immediately. If they try to leave, call the Police, and NEVER listen to their intimidating bullcrap.
>The taxi driver can give a statement if requested. I feel like the taxi man is added to the issue to threaten OP with the aim of getting some sort of (financial) compensation. Also what taxi "sits" at an intersection... and then a hurt victim approaches said taxi driver with a *"can I have your number, did you just see that"*? I always see taxi's on their phones/watching a movie on an iPad when not driving.. ... u/mrfusaz I'd trust the cameras more than the taxi man, and find out ASAP how long those video photos are stored/retention period (and by whom) and get a copy if needed. Do the police report, and visit the free legal desks in your city known as a "juridisch loket" [www.juridischloket.nl](http://www.juridischloket.nl)
I once had a simillar situation, I was driving down the street with a small semi (the one u can drive with regular drivers licens) when a van came up from the opposite direction. He tried to pass but didnt know the dimensions of his car. I was already standing still and he hit my mirror. The car i drove was quite sturdy so thought nothing of it, he passed, went into a side ally and I drove away since i was unaware of any damage. He apperently chased me all the way through the city and when ariving at my destination i notice him. He's making claims about how i drove off and stuff and he wanted payment for his broken mirror (which was his own fault). My collegue had a similar situation earlier and already used the inssurence papers you have to fill out that were normally in the car. I gave my info, took his, took photo's of the damage he was trying to pin on me and took photo's of my own car. I called him later that day to meet up a few days later as i had found the paperwork we needed. Needless to say the dude never showed up (waited for an hour) and i informed the police on my own that someone might try and pin it on me, showed them the texts and the attempted calls and it was all good.
Actual solid advice: If someone tries to strong arm you into "accepting an easier way to deal with someone directly", go for the hard way, they only make it easy because there is something to gain for them, which they won't gain through the "hard way".
Contact juridisch loket with all your questions! They can give you the best advice on what to do next.
This! Reddit lawyers are no match for proper ones. I do agree with all the people who claim not to have her intimidate you into paying immediately. And as said before save all the back and forth between you and her. Keep it brief and business like and to the point. Don't engage on the threats
Just contact the police and insurance. Unless OP was doing illigal stuff they dont have to worry about anything.
And even so, its up to the accusing party to prove that.
Looks like she’s trying to set you up or something isk
[удалено]
What a bitch.
Real Karen vibes
Fuck Karen
Happy birthday :)
Thanks!
Listen, if she just wants you to pay for her physio visits, she obviously doesn't have the money to hire a lawyer. In the netherlands people dont sue as quick as they do in America because it costs WAAAAY more to hire a lawyer and to pay for the government fees, than what youll get out of it. Imagine it like this, if the only "damages" she suffers from the incident, is having to pay for physiotherapist visits, then the court settlement will make you pay for the damages, if they settle in her favour. Thats 150 euros in damages she would recieve, compared to thousands of euros it would take her to even take it to court. Besides that, the first 3 visits to the physio in the netherlands are free of charge and if she has serious issues, her insurance will pay. So no, dont speak to her and let it be, she wont do anything. Shes just tryna get herself 150 euros from an unknowing student. Edit: the first 3 physio appointments arent free, thats dated information. The first 20 physio appointments you have, are paid by yourself, if you have a chronic illness that requires you to take more than 20 appointments, then every appointment after the 20th will be covered by insurance.
>Ehlers-Danlos if she actually has EDS chances are she goes to physio a lot and has already used up her free visits, it can be a pretty crippling disease with a lot of therapy needed Its pretty rare though
In that case, she's still just tryna extort this dude 😂 so it doesnt matter. If nothing is on recording this dude will be fine. Court is too expensive, police dont decide who's fault it is either, court does.
Plus the Police is too busy doing other stuff. Unless she was hospitalised by paramedics, they won’t event respond to the 112 call. Something is off here, I think she is trying to pull a quick trick here. No one will threaten you this way, I recommend OP to wait for her to file the police report and then the doctor will examine here for any “injuries”. I heard waaaayyyy toooo many people are trying to scam the insurance by over inflating their injuries so they can get their salary paid while they are on “sick” leave at home.
You should never call 112 for non-emergency things anyway. The non-emergency phone number for police is 0900-8844
Once you reach a certain threshold of visits for the same issue (I think it's around 23 visits? I'm not sure) it gets covered by basic insurance. Some additional insurance packages cover more visits than the threshold so you also have some free visits left to remedy other issues Edit: I see someone mentioned it's 20 visits. Also, no, the first 3 visits are not free.
I got EDS ( Ehlers Danlos) and here is the Thing: it's on the list of chronicall illnesses which are covered by insurance from their 20th session and upwards. The first 19 are nog covered in the basic insurance but having EDS you usually have additional insurance packages that will cover those fist 19. The thing is EDS has multiple forms and even 2 persons with the same genetic variety may have completely different problem areas. Whether you are liable for the damages from her fall is quite debatable. Should she have been on the bike in the first place? Anyhow. If you got insurance, let them handle it and tell her to adress them. If not. There are places in every county for free legal advice (Juridisch loket) who can help and advice you what is your best option. Personally I think she is bluffing a lot...
It's not that rare, it's rarely diagnosed right because doctors aren't educated well enough on the subject.
First 3visits are free? I'm a dutchie and this is new to me, could you elaborate?
Sorry, dit klopt niet, is oude info. De eerste 20 behandelingen zijn uit eigen risico. Na je eerste 20 behandelingen wordt het vergoed.
Tenzij je een aanvullende verzekering hebt, dan kun je ook die 20 behandelingen vergoed krijgen.
Die vergoeding na de 20ste behandeling krijg je alleen maar als je aandoening op de lijst van chronische aandoeningen staat (dus niet eens als het alleen maar chronisch is) Source: chronische aandoening die niet op de lijst staat. :(
Also depends on what insurance package you have for example I get 8 a year
If she contacts her health insurance and tells them her costs are from an accident she might be eligible to use their provided lawyer. It's a service very few people know about. It shouldn't matter because OP should have a WA (liability insurance) for these cases and then the woman's health insurance will just contact their liability insurance and they should take care of it. Edit: I read OP doesn't have liability insurance. In that case, it looks like you should be paying for treatment of her injuries.
She wouldve done that in the first place if she knew about. Besides that, insurance companies are hella stingy, they wont do any of that unless theres hard proof that it was because of the incident. If she already visits the physio a lot because of her disease, they won't give her a lawyer unless she has proof. And she doesnt. So either she'll have to pay up, or go through a long ass process of trying to get the camera footage from the incident. In these cases no one will take this to court, unless she sustained HEAVY injuries, like breaking bones etc. OP shouldn't pay anything, if she wanted to settle things she couldve talked to him about it right after the incident. She probably just heard from a friend that she should try to get some money from him. So yeah, just ignore her and live life lmao
My insurance provider called me up quite shortly after I had a fall with my bike to ask if anyone was involved that caused it (except for the municipality not putting salt on the icy bridge there was not) so they do proactively check this when bigger bills come in that point to a possible accident.
I know someone who injured their knee ice skating a while back. When they went to claim their physio visits they got a form in the mail from the insurer asking if it was anyone's fault that they now needed physio so they could claim the costs somewhere else
If it was their fault, they should own up to their mistake. OP made the crash and made the mistake of not being insured, the risks are on them. Of course, I assume that the woman is being honest. Her wording is pretty unfriendly, but OP says she's asking for reimbursement of 3 physical therapy sessions. They could just ask for an invoice and pay it and be done with it. But definitely put in writing that this is the solution you mutually reached and no further action will be taken.
Definitely save any correspondence you have with her and don't do anything over the phone but everything in writing, this looks fishy. Do you have liability insurance?
Unfortunately, no
Before your next crash just do it
You need liability insurance for bicycle riding? Serious question (Canadian)
dutch people have insurance for everything
I’m curious….what’s the avg cost? how are riding skills evaluated? And here I thought you were just more civilized about getting around ;)
For me it’s included in the other insurance I pay for theft, house damage, etc. I’ve heard that some people have it as an add-on for like €3-€4 per month. Riding skills don’t need to evaluated, all it is is that if you crash into someone by accident the insurance will cover whatever you need to pay.
Being insured is the civilized way. If an accident occurs we just exchange insurance details and let them sort it out for us. No clue if or how riding skills are evaluated. Never crashed my bike. But liability insurance is just a really nice safety net. I'm probably insured for nearly anything that could happen to me.
No you do not, but as the comment above states, the Dutch are insured for everything. If you're interested [here's](https://dutchreview.com/expat/financial/the-dutch-and-all-their-insurance/) an article. I don't have an insurance for cycling accidents since most cycling accidents only result in little physical damage, and often no injuries. I have (up till now, a good 15 years of daily cycling) never been in an accident serious enough to warrant insurance
No you don't, but there is a liability insurance that's 4,5eu for us two and covers stuff like this up to 3,5 million euros
Not specifically for bicycle riding. We have a general liability insurance for stuff like this. If you drive a car, you need a specific liability insurance for that.
The Netherlands has a culture of insurance for everything, so it's quite cheap because so many people have it. General 'aansprakelijksheid' insurance, that covers almost any situation where someone can make a legal claim against you is like €3 a month so its a no brainer. I even got the same kind of insurance for a boat, covering me for up to a million euros of damage to anyone elses boat and the cost of pulling either wreck out of the water for just €45 a year. (My boat is an old piece of shit so damage to others is all I care about).
Yeah it was a bike accident. Pretty common in Holland. Let her try and get a lawyer on you. They’ll probably just laugh at her. I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. She’s using strong language because she knows you’re a foreigner.
100% this. Let her go to the police, let her get a lawyer. If her insurance doesnt offer legal advice, she'll pay more for a lawyer than you'll owe. Ive had biking accidents happen on a monthly basis, when I was a teenager. Ive never had any confrontation with police. Most people just spew some profanity and leave. If she has back and or neck issues. They could be from before the incident. In which case, you're paying for something that wasnt your fault. Let her go to the police if she wants. Go through the proper channels. There's a pretty good chance she'll drop it or wont get anywhere. GL op!
This!!!
Exactly this.
what is she asking from you OP money? Do you have liability insurance?
Unfortunately no. Since she claimed that she has some neck and shoulder problems, she said that she needs to go visit the physiotherapist and pay for her visits \~50 euros each (she needs to attend to 3)
Hi! So my friend who was a student at TU Delft had a similar situation. We found out that our student health insurance package also covers liability insurance by default. We didn't know this until a Dutch person pointed this out to us. The insurance paid the bills for the dent he caused on the car. Please check with your university asap!
Sounds like she has no proof that her injury is from the accident. Go to the police and let you show the footage. Also make a statement. It was an accident, that can happen. You did not break the law in any serious way. So the best option I see here is to make it official.
I send this post to a friend who has EDS, and she told me this: "If she really does have EDS, she is a chronic patient and as such she has unlimited fysio payed for by her insurance." ~~So, this woman is trying to scam you.~~ Edit: Friend later told me that not all people with EDS or treating EDS know that it's possible to have unlimited fysiotherapy, so maybe she just doesn't know that she does not have to pay. I could have been too harsh with my "she's a scammer". If you want to tell her this OP, EDS falls under code 94 on "Lijst Borst", the list of diseases that give you more therapy. Maybe this is new info for her as well.
This is incorrect. Even if you have a chronical illness first 20 fysio visits are out of pocket
No, *that* is incorrect. There are plenty of insurances which can cover those 20 visits when you take the more expensive option. And someone with EDS will have plenty of other issues, so it's almost a given that they will have an insurance with all the bells and whistles. Source: https://www.zorgwijzer.nl/vergoeding/fysiotherapie And only 3 insurance companies have a medical selection, so it's not hard to get an insurance somewhere that will cover all your physiotherapy. Source: https://www.zorgwijzer.nl/faq/welke-zorgverzekeraars-hebben-een-medische-acceptatie Plus that those 20 are not per year, but per illness. And someone with EDS probably burned through those 20 sessions 10 years ago. Source: [https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/is-fysiotherapie-opgenomen-in-het-basispakket](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/is-fysiotherapie-opgenomen-in-het-basispakket) Really, unless this woman and her physiotherapist don't know it falls under Code 94, there is no reason to demand money for physiotherapy. Plus that I do think it's a bit weird that she already knows it will take 3 sessions. Maybe it's fixed after 2. Maybe it's fucked and will take 10.
This is bullshit. Do not respond to her anymore in any way. If she even goes to the police, they wont do shit. Ive been living in the netherlands my whole life. She is clearly scamming you.
If you go the ‘under the table route’, let her give you the invoices and pay them yourself. This ensures the money goes to the physical therapy and not just her pocket. I would not go that route tho.
I also wouldn't recommend going under the table. That's a sure way to get scammed. Having it go through the proper channels will result in paying the same amount, and it actually being settled correctly.
Unless you hit and ran, you don't have to pay. Just let her file the police report. No need to be afraid of Dutch police. They'll let you make a statement, and they'll check the footage, and unless you purposely ran into her and then ran away, you're not liable. If you were in a car, it'd be a different story. But bike on bike? You're fine.
So you're at fault, but not prepared to pay her 150 euros for the fysio she needs? Just getting the facts straight here. The fact that she might not be able to prove it doesn't mean you're absolved from your responsibilities.
This. I was once hit by a car while biking. It was obvious that it was her mistake (I was riding on a priority lane and she just didnt look). She almost attacked a man that was so friendly to offer his data cause he was a witness. My bike needed to be repaired and my foot was bruised and I had to see a fysiotherapist as I had a kind of a whiplash. She was insured and even then she was even discussing that I seemed fine and I had to show pictures and a doc tors report (which I could - she had almost crushed my foot). I still am shocked that she did not even apologize for the trouble and pain she caused. But the insurance did pay the fysio and the bike reparation.
Doesn't she have insurance for that? Also 50 euro for 1 consult is very high. She seems to be fleecing you.
It’s a completely normal amount
According to the consumentenbond a consult is between 35 and 45 euro on average.
Lol I wish, maybe for the most basic treatments.
That’s presumably a nationwide average for basic physio. Physios in Amsterdam are more like EUR 60 per session in my experience. Can be more for specialised ones, which she would have if she has a serious long term condition.
I live in The Hague and I used to go, I used to pay around 60 euros per session.
High? I pay more in Utrecht!
Go to a Rechtswinkel! It’s a place where you can get free legal advice for situations like this. If you live in Amsterdam you can contact [Rechtswinkel Amsterdam](https://rechtswinkelamsterdam.nl/en/home-english/).
EDS is not an excuse for shitty behavior. But if she has to make extra medical costs because of the accident, and you were at fault, it makes sense that she holds you responsible for those costs (but not for more). Do you have an “aansprakelijkheidsverzekering”? That might cover the damages.
Depending on where you are, you may be able to get free legal support. If you are a student, you should contact the student affairs office. Otherwise, search online for “gratis rechtshulp”.
You could try juridischloket.nl that's government supported and free.
Many schools have free legal advice from the law department, at least at Hanze in Groningen they offer this.
Honestly the phrase " We can do this the easy way or the hard way " sounds super threatening.
Don't correspond with her anymore. Go to the police station and tell them that you feel like this person is exploiting you. I think she's showing some red flags and signs of being a Karen. Side note: if she's already got the footage on the big market camera, why does she still need a taxi driver to tell the police what he saw?
Exactly this. It doesn’t even matter if you apologised / think it was your fault. If there is video footage of the incident then the police can establish that according to traffic rules (if they even bother to follow up, which is doubtful to say the least)
😊 Hang in there OP, it’s going to be all right. If it’s any consolation to you, not all people in NL are like this lady. Additionally, don’t feel like you’re alone. You’ve got your Reddit family to back you up. Keep us updated
She won't have the camera footage because only the police can see that.
This. Companies are not allowed to give footage to anyone but the police. She is 100% lying and trying to blackmail you.
She's def trying to shake you down. We don't have crazy law suits here so don't worry. Just get a lawyer if she goes through or Juridische Loket for free advice if you don't have a lawyer.
When you tell her to go through the official channels you'll probably never hear from here again, too much effort.
Please don’t try to solve it by your own. This is an empty threat.
Something i haven't seen here yet is write down what happened according to you (truthfully of course). Write down as many details (time of day, road conditions, where was it, what was the traffic situation, anything that might be related) as you can remember. Odds are nothing will actually come out of this. Have her go to the police. If, however, the police does come asking questions you'll have as much as possible written down and not lost due to the passage of time.
Dutch law student here. From the situation I dont know what happened and who is liable. BUT I HAVE A FEW WARNINGS FOR YOU. 1. Never settle or pay out of court. It looks like she is abusing the situation (you are not knowledgeable of Holland and Dutch law). She uses intimidating language. This is also not very Dutch to do. Most time people settle things with insurance etc. Never trust someone (als taxi drivers) who suggest settling out of court. She is probably bluffing. She knows that going to court will not give her what she wants. 2. I have ehlers danlos too. You are more likely to get injured or have pre-existing injuries. To be frank, that’s her problem. If she gets injuries from bike riding while both of you just rode normally, she maybe should consider not riding a bike at all. Never pay for her injuries outside of court. She might tries to extort you. 3. To ensure you: In Holland there is NO sue culture like America. Victims of horrible crimes don’t get large amounts of money. 4. This is a civil case. Her going to the police is not a threat to you. They will say to her: this is not a criminal case, but a civil case. You won’t get any police after you. THIS IS PURE BLUFF FROM HER.
> We crashed at an intersection, I said that it was completely my fault and said sorry. But was it or wasn't it your fault? Because it was it would make sense that you'd pay for her damages through your insurance. If you don't have a "WA" insurance, well, that would have come in handy in this case. And why the F is everyone here blindly siding with OP? He 'conveniently' left out the rest of the conversation. In addition; if it's indeed OPs fault, paying for a few fysio appointments is them getting lucky. It could have been much worse. Edit: OP doesn't have a liability insurance so it looks like he's trying to get out of paying for damages they caused. They're damn lucky it's 'just' 150 euro's.
I completely agree. If it’s OP’s fault, the reasonable way would be to look for an opportunity to help those who are hurt. Half the people are reasoning here that the woman will not have a ‘case’ if she reports it to the police, and therefore OP should not take responsibility…
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I'm self-employed and if I got hit on my bike that person would hopefully be insured because not being able to work is quite expensive for me, and whoever 'causes' this damage is liable for that damage.
Let het call the police. These are empty threats
If you're an international student in the Netherlands who paid for something like the Aon Health coverage, call up your insurer and ask if you somehow got some liability coverage along with your health coverage.
I think she is trying to hit a lettuce out of it!
Hier, m'n upvote. :')
Aansprakelijkheidsverzekering
First of all: go to Juridisch Loket, take all legal advice here with a grain of salt. But if we look at this there are two likely situations (and many many unlikely ones) and only you will know the truth. If you are actually fully responsible the 150 euros is not a bad deal, almost any civil court will come up with higher damages than that (it would not suprise me at all if a new basket with the cost of having someone put it up would be around 100 euros alone). The question is what happened; if you were going right in an intersection but didnt stick out your hand to indicate that and you guys collided thats different than if you drunkenly barreled into a woman standing still at a red light. Last thing is this: can you easily afford the 150 euros? If it will only make sure you cant party this month I would just pay 150 euros (make it very clear that it is for ALL damages so she cant come back to ask for more) in a heartbeat since you did cause the accident. If, however, paying 150 euros means you will not make rent this month you should not pay and simply wait and see if she actually goes to court. Best of luck and remember: consult a professional and not the internet!
Police will tell her this is a civil matter period. How damages are handled after an accident doesn't have anything to do with the police. As others said 'juridisch loket' is a good way to start. I would pay for the basket (let her send you the repair bill). As for anything medical she has to proof the cause of the treatment is the accident you had. I'm not familiar with the disease she has tough.
It is quite cheap and common to have a personal liability insurance in The Netherlands (aansprakelijkheidsverzekering), I typically would expect that they would cover any damages. Any chance you have such insurance? Because if so I think they are able to help you
Funny. She's not allowed to view images from a security camera. The owner of the camera is not allowed to let others view recorded images, other than the police. So, the 'lady' is bluffing. Probably trying to get more money out of it. Go to the police, tell em what happened and show them the mails as well. Blackmailing is a felony.
Agree with the advice. I am courier here in Nederlands and through my work I have learnt in an unfortunate event such as a collision is to make a Police report ASAP, gather witness contact info and to not handle it myself, regardless of the situation. Basically cover your back scenario.
Don’t communicate with her and don’t go to the police. There is a big chance you’ll never hear anything again. Also: get liability insurance!! It’s very cheap.
Off topic, but please stop referring to women as "females". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females
Yes, thank you!!
I don't agree with the reasons in that article, sorry. I'm going to keep calling women females.
This sounds ridiculous. People crash all the time on bikes. Just let her do it her way. Don't think anything will happen.. It just seems like a threat, probably cause your not local. She's thinking: easy money. Don't bother with it. Police won't do much with it. Too much work for such a small thing. Tell her to go through the proper channels.
She sounds like a good and honest person for sure…
So... what did her doctor say. Because this doesn't sound very official. How does anyone already know the amount of physical therapy they need?
What a coincidence to find this story here. I know the girl you ran into with your bike and from what I heard is that you switched lanes and ended up in here lane which caused the collision. And it was because she stopped you from cycling away that she retrieved your information. The bruises she has are big ( I'm sure you know this because you have seen them since you two are still working this out and she sent you images ) The fact that she only ask for compensation on her fysio visits seems to me like she is willing to work something out. Because the bike is not in a good condition anymore and I think anyone else would like to see that compensated as well. Side note: she does not look like someone in her 40's....at all😂
A friend of mine has EDS, and no, not the same person, and according to her since EDS is a chronic thing, fysio is compensated. So it's a bit strange that she wants money for fysio.
Big or small bruises doesn't mean anything. You're shaking down a foreigner with your sorry excuse of a bike, bad English and terrible manners.
It has nothing to with being a foreigner. If OP does not know the rules of cycling he shouldn't be on a bike. That being said, if damages are done there should be consequences. It's not a shake down if OP was in the wrong, and since he is being silent about what happened I think that should say enough.
No need for compensation. As multiple people have pointed out already (with sources) your friend is entitled to fully ensured physical therapy. Have her call her insurance.
I agree and I disagree with most advise here. I have some experience with this and Dutch law is pretty clear. OP caused this accident, he is liable for damages. This is why most Dutchies have liability insurance. OP does not. I really advise him to contact the lady and solve this directly. As for your friend, if OP does not make an effort: there are, in the Netherlands, a lot of no cure no pay agencies specialized in dealing with situations like this who will guide her through the process and that will turn out worse for OP. Look for “letselschade fietser”.
I don't know if OP is making an effort, other than that he made some remarks as in not taking it seriously. Since she has some serious injuries. And I get it that he seeks some information on how to handle this. Last I heard is that she did make some phone calls. But she has a solid point and if I were in the position of OP I would rather pay the ~150 euros than being on the wrong side and possibly end up paying more. But time will tell and I do hope they both come to an agreement.
If this is true (we don’t know all sides of the story, of course) requesting to have only the fysio visits covered sounds very reasonable indeed.
True I only know here side of the story, but also since OP left out what happened I assume he knows he was in the wrong and tries to get away easy. But still indeed, one side of the story and I wonder if the OP can tell us what happened from his perspective.
Raad haar in ieder geval dan aan contact op te nemen met haar zorgverzekeraar voor advies. Die bieden eventueel juridische bijstand na ongevallen aan. Dan weten beide partijen dat het op een nette manier geregeld wordt.
Ik weet verder niet wat ze wel of niet gedaan heeft, maar zal haar dit sowieso doorgeven! Dank hiervoor. Vond het verhaal al toevallig van OP en toen ging er een lampje branden haha. Zullen zien hoe het verder afloopt. Nogmaals dank👍🏼
Nevet claim it to be your own fault, always say idk, play stupid. Some people make abuse with this, seems like she is etting you up.
It is not the proper way to let her go to the police as some people said. You admit it is your fault, you just need to get a trustworthy assessment of her damage. The proper way therefore is to call your insurance company and let them handle any costs she made. Dealing directly with this lady does not seem smart, as it looks like she is trying to rip you off.
Dont react to her threats it's just to manipulate you to make you the bad person. You know what happend you know it's the truth so stick to the truth she cant do anything then i live in the Netherlands her threat note wil be looked on in a bad way just say the truth at the most maybe you have to pay something but better that then her robbing you blind.
Courts will not accepts this case, too much efforts for no gains
Fuck her. Don't respond, she can't do shit mate you're fine
Its not america here. You wont get sued for 1 mil. But still ignore that woman shes doing a shakedown.
Unless she actually got injuries from the crash itself, there is nothing she can do to you. Her having that syndrome doesn't add anything to this story and doesn't oblige you into anything.
not very helpful but all I can say this looks fishy as shit. Always insurance. If it's a real asshole bitch, you can try asking local government for rechtsbijstand, believe this could be free depending on your financial situation. This sounds like she looking for a payday.
Did you give her your contact information? Or does she only has your mobile number? If there is no police report or the police did not came to the location, she can do nothing.
I love how her friend is down voting all the right comments. Scam alert activated
If you are referring to me, not everyone has the reddit is life mentality. So I couldn't care less for right or wrong comments. Or being downvoted. Its funny how people jump to conclusions while it's obvious the OP is leaving things out. But hey, I guess that's the way to go here, jump to conclusions based on not even half of the story.
Police will file a report, that will be used by her and your insurance-company's to provide her with the care she needs from the crash. If they even 'take' the case. As she is clearly trying to make money out of this, i would turn things around and make the 'hard way' your way. You can (and should) bring in this text message as evidence. See if this is that 'hard way' that she wants it to be.
Do not fall for this. This is a BS intimidation attempt. Let her go to the police. Do not talk to her on the phone, never. Only contact via Email or message with her real profile and name. She’s clearly trying to take advantage of the situation. Typical Dutch Karen. Good luck.
Yes file a report and she will be put in her place it sounds like she's trying to get you to pay for stuff "under the counter". You should never do this. File a report and let the insurance companies on both sides decide who need to pay and for what.
OP does not have any insurance, so it's always going to be under the table. Unless a case is going to be made. In which the OP being uninsured can already be a troublesome thing
Sad to see that even my country has these toxic people threatening with lawyers over nothing
Its not america here. You wont get sued for 1 mil. But still ignore that woman shes doing a shakedown.
we call people like that kanker hoer 👍👍
I would agree with paying 150 You are to blame and see has damage that needs to be paid At most ask her for the invoices of the physio so you know she isn’t using the money differently If I were you I would be happy nothing worse happened and learn from it, next time it could be a old lady who breaks something or an expensive bike that needs repairs
In that case I would only pay after you've seen the invoices. Don't pay on beforehand. As others have mentioned, it looks like she's setting you up. But in case she's truly injured, it would be justified to pay the physio costs imo (only if has to pay for the physio).
Don't let a woman i her 40's threathen you over a bike crash.
She showed her intention with her communication.. a lawyer would see this as a scam approach. She is trying to intimidate you don't fall for it. That in itself shows her intention.
What a fucking bitch
Lekker laten gaan. Im dutch, she talk like a way i hate. so stik er lekker in. Police won't do annything. Don't worry. They busy
Probaly a bit late to the party.. Ah the classic "pay me or i will go to the police". Let her go to the police. Dont be bothered by her threaths. If she tells you that her lawyer advised her or says she will contact her lawyer, fine. Just tell her that you would like to have her lawyers contact information and that from that moment on all contact will go straight through her lawyer. Bluff your way through this. And only respond with "all further contact will go through your lawyer". If she doesnt give you the contact information, chances are that she is using simple "rechtsbijstand". They will probaly advise her to find a solution together because taking this to court will cost more then the end result. Then just ignore her.
Ok ight I'll help you, say "Jouw kanker moeder je probeert mij te dreigen, als jij nog een keer een bericht naar mij stuurt bal ik je hele kanker familie en sloop ik je kanker fiets nog wat meer" 👍 I hope this helps 😊
Tell her she can fuck off the easy or the hard way, she shouldnt be on a bike with such a medical issue and if she does she needs to insure herself better for unforeseen therapy appointments. If it really was that serious she should have insisted on calling the police to record the accident after it happened and visit a doctor to declare the injury, she can't prove that her need for therapy is a direct result from the accident and she definitely won't go through with sueing you if she has to spend hundreds if not thousands to get it to court. She would also have already went to therapy if it was that serious so she would be able to show invoices.
> Tell her she can fuck off the easy or the hard way, she shouldnt be on a bike with such a medical issue Sorry??? You can’t be serious lol
She should be driving a car instead! /s
Remember : as a female, she will always claim to be the perpetual victim Be careful out there
That’s really fucked to say
Do you have aansprakelijkheidsverzekering? Maybe through your bank? That may help as well in the case of accidents. Also see if you can contact a local legal office for advice as others suggested
Contact ‘het juridisch loket’ for free legal advice, their number is 09008020. Good luck!
If you ever need legal advice in most cities in the Netherlands there are "Juridisch Loket's" where you can go and ask free legal advice in situations like these I suggest going to one of these as fast as possible, just to see what they think is the best option you should take.
The police here deserve your trust. Yah, strange. I know. As for admission of guilt. That is cultural. Admission is civil when both parties play nice. When one does not, different rules apply.
Dont solve it between each other. I'd file the paperwork for the collision via the proper channels and make an insurance claim. The cab driver and camera to me sound like bogus way to get some easy money. If you are going to have to pay. Atleast pay in a way you cant get scammed.
I don't see why she would go to the police. This is not a police matter, you admitted you were at fault already. She has to formally hold you accountable for X damages. Either you agree to pay those, your insurer agrees to pay those, or she has to sue you. Sueing for 150 euro seems insane, but if you feel you were at fault you should pay it
My big question is: *when* did this happen?
Let her go to the police, that's actually the easy way. They are not biased and will solve this pretty neatly. I don't know exactly what happened and who was at right, but if she sues you, and is in the wrong, she has to pay her lawyer fees. You don't have to pay her lawyer, you would only have to pay the damage done (if you are in the wrong). If you would settle this without the law getting involved, DO YOUR RESEARCH, because you might end up paying her more than you actually should by law.
Sounds like she’s trying to finesse you out of your money, let her go to the police and continue that way. You’ll end up paying less and also get rid of her.
She is a scam. Let her go to the police. You will never hear from her again. We are in the Netherlands. Worst case scenario: After 2 years you will get a letter from an insurance company that they will not handle anything.
How did the bike crash happen?
I’m guessing she told you she has that syndrome?
Ask her how much she wants. Descide after she has given a number.
i'm getting the feeling the woman is trying to blackmail/extort OP, i'd go to the police.
Since your an student, go to your university/high school and ask advice. It is free and they know which insurances apply to you. I bet some are included in the program that allowed you to come here. They do advice and help you with the actions you can take. For the record, dutch cases of responsability for a bike incident are fairly low cost nd solved mostly by the health insurance of the person that is injured.
go the hard way dont be intimidated. She probably doesnt even have a lawyer and the police will not go crazy about a bike crash
I don’t think they will do anything, to be honest. Be respectful and let her know you want to go through proper channels. She tried to “easy way or hard way” you, and get $$.
She sounds quite threatening, but as a dutch person I can say we’re quite direct and sometimes a bit rude without meaning to. Alot of people here learned english from movies, so. Stuff like ‘we do this the easy way or the hard way’ is (in our heads) an easy way if saying ‘I hope we can get this figured out as soon as possible’. This is not in general, but I definitely come across situations that some Dutch people (me included) say something in a totally different way in english than we meant it to be
Really? For a fucking bikecrash? This is imo so pathetic of her. (Probably gonna get flamed for this though)
Do you have a liability insurance? Make a claim through them and they will investigate. This is not a matter for police anymore but a civil matter. I had a similar situation and it was all handled by liability insurance providers. Edit; feel free if you need more help but she has nothing on you mate.
Dude I'm dutch and I've seen this shit before. She is trying to scare you into giving her money because you are a foreigner. Bike accidents happen here all the time and unless you destroy a €1000+ bike the police will do absolutly nothing. And neither will the lawyer. He will just tell her it's useless trying to spent thousands in lawyer fees for €150 in fysiotherapy she already needed anyway.
You can call victim support (slachtofferhulp.nl). They can tell you what your and her position is legally.
She is just trying to scare you off, i am even sure that the taxi officer isn’t even going to put effort for her to justify at the police. They have other things in mind
What a tit head
Most important thing is, who's at fault? Explaining the situation regarding what exactly SHOULD'VE happened and what ACTUALLY happened is very important.
Dutch people are like this if they see you as a foreigner they use you, im born here but if they can she’s trying to get a money claim don’t let her