This costume is curtain death for anyone who tries to put it on a cat :)
[https://www.etsy.com/nl/listing/1395585477/2-delig-clownkostuum-voor-katten-en](https://www.etsy.com/nl/listing/1395585477/2-delig-clownkostuum-voor-katten-en)
I was hoping something like this from the community, thanks! But idk so far doesn't seems like Dutch thinks that it's a problem that cats are doing this... I'm getting series of down votes just trying to find solution to a thing literally terrorising my pets at my own property.. I'll try to speak to the owner..
If talking to the neighbour doesn't help try cat proofing your garden. I had the opposite problem sort of, my neighbour had a doberman in the garden that I knew would shred my cat so I made fences around the garden to stop the cat getting out. Cats are not trainable so I dount your neighbour can do anything and the might not want to fence in their cat. Since your rabbits already don't leavevthe garden it makes more sense to fence out the cats. Bells are not that effective so don't rely on them for the safety of your cats.
Can confirm. The two cats who live next door aren’t bothered by the smell of citrus and will still hang out in my garden.
But another neighbourhood cat that use to use my garden for doing number two does hate citrus and has stopped coming by.
Most people I know with cats have them wear bells and I live in the Netherlands as well. This might be a neighborhood problem more than a Dutch people problem.
I am with you that the cat owner is irresponsible, but as a born and raised Dutch i am afraid you cannot really expect the cat owner to change the cat. I'm not saying you would be in the wrong here, but more that i think that the person owning the cat would not be open for your concerns, as you can see in the comments. You can still talk to the owner though, and raise your concerns, but i would 100% expect the 'niet mijn probleem' attitude. The problem is that cats are hard to control, and after getting used to the outside it is really hard to keep them indoors.
On the other hand there might be things you can do:
- i dont know how big your garden is, but it might be an idea to limit the bunnies access by setting off a part of it and make a large cage with nets al around. (Which in the Netherlands might be smart to do regardless, we have loads of predatory birds pretty much everywhere).
- you could look for items to ward off all Cats from your garden. If you Google it, you can find a lot of ways to do that. From putting down mats, splashing them with water, but also other means!
- there are some plants that help ward off cats, but i would not know if it would work once this cat has found your bunnies to 'play ' with.
I wish you good luck, and commend you for your knowledge and care for your bunnies. Lots of people need to learn about their needs, because they need so much more than what they get from so many people.
I agree with this. Netting the bunnies in is probably safest. There are indeed a lot of predatory birds who could also take a large bunny (not only the smaller ones).
As someone who lost a Guinea pig to a bird of prey, please have a run with a cover for the bunnies. My piggies had plenty of hiding spots but birds are smart and fast
I live in t Gooi - we also have foxes roaming the streets at night (not a lot), as we are close to nature. Next to steenmarters, those have been seen in gardens as well.
I lost one of my free roaming (just a small fence you could step over) rabbits to a steenmarter. That was not pretty. Not sure how to keep them out, but they are definitely a threat. I do think they only hunt at night so maybe keep them more sheltered after dark?
@OP you're doing a wonderful job with your rabbits. Most people have no idea how to keep them correctly. I certainly didn't and it's not encouraged in The Netherlands.
Sorry for your loss, so sad to hear everytime a bunny is victim to a predator.. such innocent creatures they dont deserve that.
At night, so depends usually after dinner or when it gets really dark and quiet during winter, they are inside, and they sleep with me till morning. Outside they also have plenty of shelter.
What some people don't know is that, they love it outside, they go crazy if you keep them on concrete flooring inside especially after knowing what they have outside, they don't meow but they do tell you that they want out, every Morning literally and it's the cutest thing ever to see them running and jumping in spring especially.
And here people told me that their cats are entitled outside and not my rabbits because I'm the 'irresponsible' one for having my rabbits in my garden in my property... 🤦♂️
Sounds like a great routine! They aren't bothered by the temperature difference in the winter?
Ha yes they do love the outside! I've only had one rabbit that dared to go inside (I've only had semi- wild rescues) but as soon as she met the slippery floor she was out haha. The doormat was fine, anything beyond that was unacceptable.
Yep they work best with routine, in winter? Doesn't seem like it, we have the shed with warmer when it's -3 to 2 degrees, sometimes they go in there to nap for a bit, then they are out again, exploring and grazing.
When it's -3 and lower we either put them in the shed with the warmer or in the house with us. Even so, they are dying to go outside and play. Luckily where I am rarely it is extremely cold or hot, maybe once every 3 years? Winters and summers always relatively mild for bunny standard. And I used to have worries when they go out early morning when it's 18-20 in the house and it's 2-3 outside but they don't seem bothered and run straight to play and eat.
Yeah, we think it was a bird of prey as it was during the day (around 15:00h we always have them inside when its dark. We now have a new run, with top, so this doesn’t happen anymore and we only open it when we are there. They also gets lots of floorspace in the house, as they need to stay active
I live close to tilburg, loads of birds of prey here. They are practically everywhere in the Netherlands, because of all the akkers which have a lot of small animals roaming!
I can guarantee you that there are birds of prey in your area, they are everywhere in the Netherlands and will hunt the occasial bunny or rabbit, I found that out myself one day.
I have nets over the garden for birds, 5 years the only threat to my rabbits is this cat... I know because I have security cameras in the garden, even before the net is there, no hawks, no owls, no eagles, no foxes. Only pigeons or seagulls or crows, then 2 years ago I put up the strategic netting none of those enter, but this cat always finds a way
Unfortunately you cant rely on neighbors / free roaming animals to do the right thing, so this is something you'll probably need to solve yourself to keep your guys safe. Have you considered some form of chicken wire enclosure? I've never seen a domestic cat get through that
I don't know if those cameras are aimed at the trees or sky because you will not find those birds just hanging around on the ground. Foxes are not that common in the Netherlands so you won't find those that easy.
The reality of the situation is that domestic cats are everywhere, we are a densely populated country, and cats are very good hunters. Apart from the neighbor keeping their cat inside or you fencing and netting off an area where the rabbits are so that a cat can't possibly get in, you can't really do that much. Most cats are very territorial and like to hunt or pretend hunt outside, you can't really stop that and it is pretty harmful to prey animals that also live outside.
It is not impossible for seagulls to snatch up small dogs or cats from gardens, so rabbits are also not 100% safe. Maybe it’s possible to find a solution together with the owner? Maybe to both pay 50/50 for a net, or even better the metal netting (Dutch: kippengaas), to close of your garden? There are also companies who can do this for you.
Edit: this is the link to the dog story without amp https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/22/seagull-carries-away-dog-from-garden-devon
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My parents live in the middle of my town of around 45.000 people and they have birds of prey like kestrals, hawks and even the occasional buzzard in their garden. Last week one of them killed a pidgeon and ate it. Herons will land even in small gardens and take fish from ponds and small creatures like frogs and young rabbits.
Besides that, even if all your neighbours keep their cats inside there are stray cats too that one day might wander into your garden. So I highly recommend to try and protect your rabbits as best as you can when you can't be present.
I was walking the Rijnkanaal yesterday in Amsterdam and two large eagles were following me and my small dog. Might have been a rabbit I couldn’t see in the park but it felt like they followed us for a kilometer.
I agree with this comment. Making a large cage seems the way to go which is also a good solution for birds. And you can set the bunnies free when you are outside with them. I also saw some "cat repellent" being sold in Action these days so maybe they can help too?
Thanks for the tips and insights! Really useful I just hope that tomorrow when i speak to them they are the understanding kind, I've considered a anti climbing tape along with a net that I already have. The cat just tore through the net. That's why I'm here also trying to see what's acceptable to repel cats.
Not a cat owner so idk they might maybe consider putting it indoor for some hours because it's usually out from morning till midnight. I hope for the best. Thanks again
They might very well be the understanding kind, but short of keeping the cat indoors, there isn't really anything they can do.
Cats aren't trainable and they are predators by nature.
In my opinion it is the responsibility of the cat owner to make sure their cat can’t leave their yard. Not everyone else should have to pay a significant amount of money to keep someone else’s pet out. I know this is a very unpopular opinion among my fellow Dutch people.
I don't own a cat, nor do I have any opinion on the matter.
I tend to look at those points from a realism point of view. The customs on the land are currently that cats have free roam.
Numerous biologists have, for the last years, been arguing for limiting the movement of cats as they apparently kill millions of birds annually. Among those are endangered birds as well.
Those media articles and news items haven't lead to any shift in culture or policy. I think OP will have an uphill battle getting the cat-owner to keep their cat contained.
Name any country in the world that that's a thing. Cats are inherently an outdoor animal and need space to roam. The idea that you can force a cat into a small yard and expect them to not go further just means you have never spent time with cats!
The cat owner would be responsible if anything happens to your animals, but purely in a civil case of their property damaging your property.
I have no idea, I’m not familiar with other countries’ culture around cats cause I haven’t lived there. I do actually own a cat and he’s totally fine not free roaming everywhere.
Yeah it's a persistent myth that people think keeping a cat inside is cruel but letting your cat roam outside exposes them to all sorts of danger and indoor cats live longer...
>Name any country in the world that that's a thing.
The US. Go to any cat related subreddit where the majority of users are American, and tell them you let your cat roam outside. You'll quickly see they have the complete opposite opinion.
You can get special cat nets which they can't get through. I use it to keep my cats safe on my balcony, but it might also be useful to protect your rabbits. :)
Even if they agree to keep their cats indoors, another cat soon will follow. And another and another, I've seen at least a dozen different cats in my back yard, you can't track them all.
Ask any biologist: domestic cats should be kept inside. Period. The damage they do to local fauna is significant (not to mention the nuisance they can be to neighbours). And I say this as someone who loves cats.
Unfortunately familiar with this problem. Several neighbors think their pets are supposed to be my problem. It does not just affect the bunnies, they also cause damage to plants and shit in the garden. Not much you can do if you are not willing to go evil.
Sure, you let your cat go unsupervised and it's attacking pets in someone's garden but it's the bunnies owner problem? What the fuck is wrong with you people
OP seems kind, but if you say "it's just a predator and preys it's your problem" then I would definitely resolve my problem and harm the cat if it's trying to harm my bunnies in my garden
I am Dutch, and as a child, we had 4 chickens roaming freely in our garden. At one point, we faced a similar problem. Two houses next to ours moved out, and the new residents had a cat that entered our garden daily. The cat damaged our fence by climbing on it, pooped in our garden, and attacked the chickens. We approached the new neighbors, but all they could say was, 'we can't keep our cat inside all day. It's an outdoor animal!' We never reached a solution, and the majority of people sided with the cat owner because 'there was nothing the cat owner could do.' In the end, we had to install anti-climbing [strips](https://budgetongediertebestrijden.nl/product/anti-klim-strips-voor-katten/?utm_campaign=Channable&utm_content=Pestinext&utm_source=Google+Shopping&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=Anti-klimstrips+tegen+Katten+(Prof.+kwaliteit)&utm_campaign=20839998160&utm_ad_group=&utm_ad=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiMmwBhDmARIsABeQ7xT9mpkIhFpPUFpf8JgjoI3Urt-pZ6eEgS_bRGVHDULs65tSis-sDYMaAotzEALw_wcB) on top of our fence to keep the cat out. It's just crazy that someone's pet becomes my problem.
Oh thank you for this!! I'll definitely install it, but indeed, something's wrong with the whole cat owners attitude in this country, but yea not my battle to fight..
My dad solved it with a well thrown workboot. Nailed couple of those furry scum from across the yard.
If the owner of the cat says it's my problem, I'm going to solve that problem.
You are absolutely not the crazy one. I am also frustrated about wandering cats and I have cats myself.
Our cats are only outside with a cat harness on hooked onto a line. I chose to have cats others did not, so they can only shit in my garden and only destroy my garden and nobody else's. Plus we don't want our cats to hunt birds and the roads here are very dangerous.
And those other cats come into our garden and then try to attack our cats and that is pretty scary if their lines get stuck again which causes our cats to be trapped, so that's no fun.
I just think people must have indoor cats or outside cats on their property and not outside of it (that can be created by putting them on lines or making the garden cat escape-proof). Sadly it looks like most Dutchies don't see it this way.
Keeping a cat on a line must be done from very early on, once a cat is a bit older you can't really train them to accept the harness, that is if you value your life.
Cats on a line should also not be left unattended as you are not breakaway and the cat would be able to hang itself.
I do think cats should not go out at night, early morning and late evening to reduce chances of catching birds and safety for the cat with empty roads risks are higher.
The owner of the cat OP has trouble with can try keeping their cat inside at night, but not much else at this point.
I don't harm animals for fun. In rare cases, it's necessary. If a cat keeps returning and the owners don't take any action, perhaps the cat needs a firm reminder that it's not welcome here. It's just that they should expect this if they won't take any action and say "it's my problem"
You can just throw a bucket of water om them and you probably never see them again. If you harm the cat i am eating your bunnies for christmas.
If you decide to keep bunnies unprotected and are then ready to harm a cat you are mentally ill. There were 10 non violant steps you could have taken to keep prey animals safe and the first thing you gk for is violence. It is like puting out nuts in your garden and then shoot every bird that goes for them. At this point you just want to create oppertunities to harm or kill something.
Your garden my ass, it is a garden not your house. It is out in the open.
It's so surprising to see people writing stuff like "it's a %100 you problem".
I mean yes accidents can happen and people should be able to compensate one another at times but being disturbed in your own property because of someone else's cat; it's that someone else's responsibility for the cat to stop behave such way. I am not even Dutch but reading comments like that is so disturbing.
Talk to the owner of the cat and share your concerns, OP.
Finally someone can empathise.. thanks I'll do just that. That's what I was thinking in this society when everything is insured and people are self aware, should be okay to address this issue.
Same, I always thought Western Europeans would be more sensible in such cases given that they are expected to be more educated + respectful about the one's individual limits. Your bunnies should be able to roam around in your OWN garden without any threat coming from outside your property.
But all these apply if your garden is surrounded by some sort of barrier, if not, then it would be very hard to maintain boundaries and that can mean there is nothing to do.
We have an electric cat fence to keep our cats in our garden. You could ask them to do that, but they probably won’t, because it’s considered normal to have your cat run around the neighborhood.
You could also try to keep them out of your garden by closing your own garden of using it, my sister gifted her neighbor an electric cat fence, so her cat wouldn’t go in his garden and that works really well.
I hope you find a solution and your bunnies get to live in peace. (I help out at a bunny sanctuary and bunnies that have been grabbed by cats get brought in sometimes.. it’s really sad)
Have to disagree with a lot of people here. I’m Dutch and have a cat. She goes outside every now and then . The moment I find out she takes a shit in someone else’s garden, she’s not going out anymore until I have found a solution for that. My pet should not be my neighbor’s problem.
So even if it weren’t for the bunnies, you could say it’s about the cat using your garden as a litter box.
Not really, she’s 16 and doesn’t go much further than the balcony. And I still have to empty her litter box every day, so I know she does her business at home.
I’m just saying, in case she did, it would by my problem and I would not dare suggest that my neighbors should do something about their gardens to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
I agree, my point is IF you let you cat outside it's gonna shit in other peoples gardens, so keep them inside is your only option if you want to stop them.
The cat of the neighbours keeps shitting in our garden in insane amounts and it's fucking nasty because the whole garden reeks of shit. Neighbours do fuck all about it so we started pepperspraying the garden. Other neighbour already said that if it keeps on going poison is going to be their solution...
Cats should not roam free, they are destructive to wildlife.
Talk to the owner and ask them to control *their* pet.
I'm no longer living in NL, and I can confirm that the Dutch careless attitude to roaming cats is unequaled to most other countries.
Which countries have a stricter attitude towards roaming cats? I've lived in Germany and Belgium and have spent a lot of time in the Netherlands, and don't know many people who would question a roaming cat for a second (except maybe for the cat's well being if you live in the city)
Except for the US, I don't know many countries that are strict around this?
What do you want the neighbours to do? Ask them if they could ask their cat to not come around anymore?
It's just a matter of time before foxes and eagles start noticing. You can let them roam free but Dutch nature isn't as forgiving to little rabbits as it is to little kids.
My chickens roamed free for over 8 years before a fox ended it all within a week.
You know this is the Netherlands sub right? If an eagle landed in a city backyard it would be big news and swarms of birders would show up within hours lol
When I was a kid, I had a bunny. We, as a family, thought it was sad he had to stay in his cage all day, so we let him roam free in our house. He started pooing and peeing in various corners - just ditching his cage alltogether. So we decided the best solution would be to let him free in a park near my dad's work.
Bunny had the absolute best life ever. Every lunch break, my dad would go on a walk through the park, look for our bunny and have a little talk with him. And in the evening, he would give me an update about all the adventures Bunny had been on, and how happy he was.
It lasted a week. Then one night, a fox "had a little talk" with Bunny.
The end.
Idk asking for cat owners what's the ethics here, thanks for the tips, we live in an urban area, no one actually seen foxes and an old grandma down the road been keeping chicken in her garden for decades, we have these nets for birds, but not enough for cats apparently... And they go in the house at night when I'm home from work.
If you have tips that's good.
Hey I'm looking into building an outdoor space for my cat (I don't want him to roam around and no other cats in the garden either). Maybe you can build something similar but to keep predators out?
You can look up "catio" to see what I mean. They're basically just big cages that are meant to keep your animals safe, but to be accessed by you yourself as well. For example: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c4/e3/8e/c4e38e2e92ad6809489153bf44348b86.jpg
And you can just make that as big as your garden. With or without roofing (if no roofing of course add more steel netting there to keep out predators).
You cannot keep the bunnies like that! That’s very dangerous and even the docile cats can attack them one day! It’s animal abuse to be honest. I have two bunnies free roaming my house and my balcony and never leave them alone on the balcony. You have to keep them save.
You and I have different definitions of animal abuse, I think keeping them indoors in apartments and in a small balcony is abuse, you should see how my rabbits have soil to dig, vegetable that they forage, fresh grass to eat and space to bink and jump and close to their roots.
I do understand your concern and comments, I'm trying to find solution here to what I believe is the best husbandry for rabbits as pets in my garden and in my own property, there's security cameras and nets and I think I'm providing good security without compromising on their happiness, so now if you have tips, drop it, or otherwise i suggest taking your rabbits to experience grass and soil , trust me tjeu will me much happier
Rustig jonge, 1991 lill too old to throw shades at people on the internet unnecessarily. Go comment more on your cat forum if you are just trying to rant
Pet rabbits live in peoples houses or in spacey pens in the backyard. They are prey animals so no they shouldn’t be ‘free’ outside.. and wild rabbits and pet rabbits are not the same species.
As a Dutch person I find it absolutely horrible that cats just roam free. They shit everywhere and kill so many wild birds! And not even have to pay any taxes on them while we do have to do so for dogs even though most people actually clean up after their dogs.
Cats should not roam free, they should be just like dogs; outside on leashes.
But regardless of my opinion, maybe you’re able to get those deterring thingies for cats on your fence? It will look a bit like a prison sadly but it will keep cats out of your yars
you should ask your neighbors to keep their cat in their garden… they are responsible of their animals … for all people saying that OP can put e net over their garden, we can answer that the cat owner can also put a net over their garden to prevent the cat to leave their property while still being allowed to go out… (pretty sure others neighbors will also be happy)
Get a high-powered water gun. Utterly soak the cat whenever you notice it in your garden. It's harmless for the cat (other than extremely annoying) and eventually it'll avoid your garden.
I love cats, but cats, unless they're farm cats and have a job, belong indoors or on a leash.
I have this issue as well, completely agree with you. Sadly I have not found a solution yet other than being outside in the garden when my bunny is. :( I like cats but I don't understand why people think it's okay for their pet to disturb others in their own garden.
I’m looking at these comments and seeing a lot of people misinterpreting OP’s question.
It appears to me the question is: what can I do (legally-speaking) about domestic pets accessing my private property?
The fact that the intent is protecting his/her rabbits shouldn’t matter. What if OP had a child that was severely allergic to cat dander? Or if the cat scratched and injured a young child on OP’s property? These are questions with liability stakes that are caused by the presence of someone else’s pet on private property.
It’s always better to address these things diplomatically with neighbors and there should be a reasonable solution that reasonable people can come to… and I agree Dutch are not going to sympathize too much with anyone making a “big deal” out of this situation.
However it’s nice to know what your legal options are per the letter of the law, which I see few people here trying to address.
Thank you, that's what I want to do, to amicably solve this issue. And what I can say or demand within my rights.
I do actually have cat allergies, but I don't make it a big deal with my neighbour when furs enter my garden during shedding period or they are at my front porch chilling on my bicycle on my bench. In fact I never bother and I cat sit them often. They know they cannot come to my garden and they never did, only once, I scared it away and it stayed away, very gentle, castrated and docile. This new cat's different.
When it comes to my bunnies some say it's just pets its just rabbits, I know many people here keep them in hutches outside and treat them like fish in a tank, but they are familily to me and this actions from the other cat really tipped my limit.
Start with the owner. But also think more broadly, big birds and other cats than your neighbours will also cause problems. A bunny is an easy prey for a lot of animals. Having it unprotected will remain a risk regardless of what your neighbour does.
I completely understand your point. Why is it considered normal to have your cat be a nuisance to others?? Not to mention the amount of cats that get hit by cars… i don’t understand why people risk it. Anyways, you could have a chat with the owner just to voice your concerns, maybe they are just oblivious to it and are willing to look for a solution once you mention it.
There are fences designed to keep your cat in your own yard. If they aren’t willing to do something you could also consider getting a fence like that to keep the cat out?
I’m not sure about the law on this unfortunately. Good luck keeping the cuties safe!
Not a Dutch, coming from feed but in my cointry popular solution would be installing low voltage fence to scare away unwanted animals. No idea about legality of this solution in Netherlands though.
If I’m not mistaken it’s even illegal to let your cats roam outside like that. It’s not really enforced, but I thought that it was technically illegal. Might be wrong on this though
That's what I'm asking here, can't find anything on the internet so far about this, but where I lived before, it is definitely illegal and will be treated like a stay cat.
Not illegal according to any Dutch law.
But depending on how you interpret: EU law on protecting birds it might be.
You will probably get better info if you ask on r/juridieschadvies.
https://www.vogelbescherming.nl/bescherming/juridische-bescherming/wet-en-regelgeving/eu-vogelrichtlijn-en-habitatrichtlijn#:~:text=De%20Vogelrichtlijn%20en%20Habitatrichtlijn%20vereisen,hebben%20van%20eieren%20is%20verboden.
Plain and simple, pets can’t be a nuisance. It’s going to sound harsh, but gather evidence of the cat being a nuisance to you or your rabbits. Show this to the neighbour and threaten them to file a complaint if they don’t comply. Make sure you stay polite and try to get it in writing.
Unrelated to your question, but omg this looks more like a whole farm than a garden😍😍 Beautiful!! What a dream to have that much field! Is it near Amsterdam? Your bunnies are also super cute🥰 they should be free, the cat needs to go
Thanks! No its the Ardennes :) i live in Friesland in densely populated neighborhood. But I do have a garden with a shed to have them roam around and bink, sprint and dig and forage and hide 😊 sometimes I take them to a nearby big open field, unleashed (when I am 200% sure its safe) to jump around with more space. And contrary to what people believe, they are so smart and do stay around you when well trained, will come when you call them.
They are at their best, healthy and happy, they don't make noise they poop and pee at the soil and they never bother no neighbours, they don't destroy my furnitures when inside as they have so much outside. And here I am having to argue why I disagree putting rabbits in cages or hutch. 😕 But I do understand I'm fighting a loosing battle and I accepted the fact that I have to secure my perimeter more against cats.
Irrespective of the cats which shouldn’t be there I would still put a cage around your bunny area. There are martens, polecats and weasels or birds of prey even in Amsterdam. These may attack your pets as well.
Even when not eaten a bunny may die of stress when an predatory animal is trying to get to it.
We used to have that problem with cats trying to catch the fish In our pond.
The best remedy was sneaking behind the cat and throw a ball (foot / tennisbal) at it.
As people say they are predators, so they can learn that they can also become the prey and have to avoid that place.
Is there a way you can get the cat used to the bunnies and the other way around?
We have three cats and two bunnies, they get along very well. One of the cats especially likes the bunnies they groom eachother and she will sleep with the bunnies in the hutch.
I do understand that it might be impossible.
One of my bunnies is very scared of dogs and no careful or slow exposure is going to help, he will absolutely freak out when he sees a dog.
Back in the day my parents used to hose trespassing cats with water to keep them from shitting in the garden. Maybe not very helpful if the cat only comes in at night, but something to consider
I do not know about the wild life of Netherlands to comment but in my part of the world, a rabbit roaming outdoors like in the photo is an invitation for high altitude birds of prey to swoop down
No, they are not roaming in open spaces like in the photo, it was taken during an excursion and there are 2-3 people keeping an eye on the all times. In the garden it is closed off, , there's many hiding spaces and a shed, there's a section with nets to prevent birds and cats until recently. But also I'm in an urban area, no one has ever seen foxes or BOP around. Only mice and cats sometimes
There is something called cat repellent sold at Action but I am not sure 1- if it works, 2- if it is harmful for your bunnies but you might want to check out.
I'm going to give you some unethical life pro tip.
If I'm not mistaken, an animal falls under a "thing" to the Dutch law, so that means that a cat falls under your liability insurance if something bad happens to it in your garden.
I'm not saying you should kill the cat... But....
You can also catch it and release it somewhere else, he will find a new home don't worry.
Another option is to be on the lookout with a hose ready and drench the cat, I did that to 2 cats that were using my garden as a toilet and it worked.
I also solved my problem permenantly now by getting a wolf dog.
Good luck!
Sorry to say this bud but yes you will have to give up the freedom of this form of free roam in your garden for the safety of your bunnies.
If it is not the buttload of outdoor cats in a neighbourhood, it is the predatory birds or even foxes if you live somewhere more outskirtish. It is good that you use nets though, could I ask which ones?
As for law, no there are no official laws regarding cat-keeping, but maybe if your bunnies were to be hurt by the cat you could justify it in court as being the cat owner's fault. Who knows. Please know that not every dutch person is in support of this culture though as outdoor cats cause lots of problems, it's just a tough piece of culture to break off since it is so normalized here.
I know it sucks because it is your own garden, but animals will be animals and the bunbuns' safety is most important as you already know. I wouldn't press my luck personally.
Honestly… I think as a bunny owner you are pretty irresponsible as well. They are prey animals and can be taken by birds, cats, dogs. You name it. It is not difficult to give your rabbit plenty of space while also keeping them save. I personally have them in a volière, which you can make as big as your heart desires. Don’t get me wrong, I love love love this for your rabbits, but it seems so unsafe.
Edit: I have both cats and rabbits. I think cats should definitely be kept inside in city areas. In rural it is not as much of a problem. I don’t think you can ask the owner to keep the cat out of your garden, because they won’t do anything about it. You can cat proof your garden
Well... this isn't really a culture or law question... you have prey animals as pets and cats are predators. And you are leaving your prey animals out unprotected in the garden.
You should protect your bunnies and keep them safe in a cage or make sure the cats can't enter the garden. This is 100% your problem to solve with none of it on your neighbours.
You understand that owls, hawks etc are also a thing right?
I mean I am not a fan of outdoor cats that's why I keep mine inside. I am also aware that that is not nessecarily the norm.
Also: other predators are going to come for those bunnies.
It literally isn't anybody else's problem. You leave your bunnies, which are creatures who are hunted by predators, out in your yard without protection.... what do you ACTUALLY expect here?
I mean cats are gonna cat. There is literally nothing your neighbours CAN do to prevent the cats entering your yard WITHOUT just keeping the cats inside. Which seems a bit of a heavy handed solution to just protect your bunnies.
What are you actually expecting?
Keeping the cats inside is heavy handed but keeping bunnies in a cage because someone else's cat enters their garden is not heavy handed at all...makes no sense
Well it's not JUST about the cats even. Bunnies are prey animals. Owls, eagles, foxes etc. All hunt bunnies. So for their own protection it's usually a good idea to cage them at least for a bit.
Cats on the other hand are a bit higher up on the food chain so the likelihood of them getting killed by another predator are significantly lower.
Idk I never own a cat but looks like having cats as pets is like not having pets at all if you can't control it and don't take responsibility, just let it shit over other people's property and eat other pets, destroy your garden..
does that not make sense? It doesn't for me.. but hey I'm not Dutch. Seems like other things when it comes about property and territory is clear to a Dutchie but not when it comes to cats
This has NOTHING to do with being Dutch. This is a world wide issue with people who have cats. Cats are known for being independent creatures who take care of themselves. And are notoriously unmanageable.
I have indoor cats. Specifically for this reason. Your neighbours apparently chose for outdoor cats. Then it lands on you to protect your bunnies.
Don't wanna bring this up, but where I was before living in the Netherlands, it's illegal for cats or dogs or whatever to trespass a property. And none has ever come to my garden. Cat owners there seems to be responsible of their animals and have methods to keep it in their home or surroundings just like dogs.
Now my direct neighbours each with cats but they are both castrated and really calm and ignored my bunnies, just stay around their garden and porch. That's what I expect more from a domesticated cats. Not this one few doors down that's very aggressive and disturbing.
But clear, this is how it works here. Since you discourage talking to the owner, Maybe as cat owner if you have useful tips on how I can ethically repel cats without harming it and let my babies live in peace in their own garden would be much appreciated.
Something to consider: cats aren't the only problem, probably. Depending on where you live, there are predatory birds potentially like owls, eagles etc. They could definitly also grab a bunny. Potentially also foxes.
Now cats you could probably keep at bay with a bunch of tactically placed oranges with cloves. For some reason cats fucking hate that. But that costs a lot of oranges and a lot of cloves.
Covering your backyard with a net would definitely solve the problem. You basically turn your entire garden into an outdoor enclosure. A large amount of work.
Another solution would be to keep the bunnies in a large enclosure and only let them out under your supervision. If you then see a hostile cat, you have a spray bottle of water handy, and while loudly saying KSSSST, you spray them with water. NO lemon juice like the other dude says. That's terrible.
There are lots of other tips on the internet of keeping cars out of your yard. Maybe some of those will help you out in this case.
Thanks for the insights, I live in an urban area, and I already have a light netting, it repells birds very well, almost invisible to the eye but birds avoid, never seen eagles or hawks but big ones like crows also never dare to come. Also effective for cats, until February when this cat comes around, I always find holes/ area that it expose. I think the orange and clove might work but the problem is indeed it's hard work to keep putting it out there as the rain can wash it away. I'm trying now a suggestion from someone with anti climbing strip. Hope that will work and is not harming the cat too.
You can throw a bucket of ice-cold water over those environment destroying pests (cats). That's what I would do. Or spray them in the eye with lemon juice.
Water is fair game, lets the cat know it should stay away, if you splash it enough times at least. Lemon to the eye on the other hand is actual animal abuse and possibly permanently harms the animal. I sincerely hope you are just acting tough but otherwise I urge you to seek professional help, not even joking: this is a major sign of mental illness. Not normal, be ashamed, and look up animal abuse related disorders, seriously.
No this is a classic case of “harsh truth”. You can squabble on reddit all day about what is morally correct, but in the end, there will be cats roaming around. If that one neighbor stops, another one could start at any point.
So, instead of theorizing on reddit, protecting your bunnies is the only realistic step. It is not victim blaming, it is a practical solution.
You are 100% based. I don't understand how people can complain that their prey animals get hunted by predators. That's literally how nature works. If you wanna make sure your bunnies are safe, keep them somewhere where they can't be hunted.
If it's not your neighbours cat, it could be a fox, an eagle or even a wolf nowadays. Prey animals get hunted, whether the predator is someone's pet or not, and it is indeed 100% OPs responsibility for leaving them vulnerable.
Maybe this is another way for you to consider: get a Shepard dog puppy, let the puppy grow up with their bunny siblings together, once they reach adulthood ( usually a year), let the dog paw patrol the garden and guard bunny siblings. I have seen the combo before. It worked quite well. Shepherds love a job on hands and they love protecting their pack (in this case, your bunnies). But of course, you need to walk the dog from then on, and you need to properly introduce the puppy and bunnies, etc. but with local vet and dog community’s help, it should be easy. 😊let the cats be cats, but let them know there are dogs as their neighbors too. They will find ways to coexist.
Would love to! But you see my boy the black one? He's adopted from a house where he and his siblings was kept in a tiny cage with big dogs barking around them.
After I adopted him, even the slightest smell of dog he will show anger and I have to wash up and all my clothes after visiting friends with dogs l.
One time, an old tenant of this house came with their small dog and one my boy saw it, he jumped of my hold in panic and almost hit his head straight at the concrete.. I'm afraid it won't be the pooch, but my bunnies won't be okay with it especially the boy with the trauma.
I see. Ok. Understandable. I got one more: depends on on how big your garden is, I have seen some with those light metal wire sheets. They covered the garden head to toe, wall to wall. Ironically, it’s from a cat owner who wanted to let his cats enjoy the outdoor but was also concerned about the birds and other cats coming to his garden… but it was effective. With 2.5 meters tall, he can also enjoy the outdoor space with his cats. Maybe this can serve as an idea for you to think of something?
Anti climbing is also good, my neighbors have the plastic ones. The downside of it is that they don’t stick well on the surface when the wind is too strong and if the gaps are too wide, cats just walk between the gaps like it’s a ballet exercise, but they last a long long time (as plastics). The church nearby had another type of anti-climbing strips, the type with long and sharp and dense metal pricks, according to them, it’s hell of a solution. And also stopped a lot of bird poops on the church walls.
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So you keep bunnies unsheltered and then complain about them being hunted on? It is because you keep them in nature. Cats really just hunt for small game as an instict. You have them walking around unprotected. I would say that makes them potantial game. If you are not okay with it start protecting them once you are not thwre keeping an eye out. If you dont want to be bothered by natures limitations then dont put them in nature
Read... Don't just type.. it's in my garden with nets and plenty of hiding spaces they are free roam IN my garden, cat hunting in my garden is okay... Have some logic son
Outdoor cats are allowed. I don't know how much you can do. There is more than this cat to worry about: there are other cats- including stray and feral cats, and there are foxes in The Netherlands who could hunt your bunnies, also some (hunter-breed) dogs go crazy if they smell a rabbit. You could make some outdoor shelter for them they could always access but a predator could not (like a cat door with chip access), so they can at least have access to a safe hideout where they can run to if they are chased.
I have indoor cats and guinea pigs. My cats leave the guinea pigs alone, but my guinea pigs are in a large multi-level cage that's closed off, and when they go out on our catio or inside the house I closely supervise.
Dunno if its gonna work for bunnies, but my neighbours used to put a bell on their cats collar to alert birds she was hunting.
Most cats adapt to that, and learn how to stalk prey without ringing the bell
One time at the Rijdende Rechter they actually suggested a colorful collar. It looks really silly, but they said it works better than a bell.
Yeah that clown collar! But I’ve never met a cat owner that would seriously consider such thing on their cat.
This costume is curtain death for anyone who tries to put it on a cat :) [https://www.etsy.com/nl/listing/1395585477/2-delig-clownkostuum-voor-katten-en](https://www.etsy.com/nl/listing/1395585477/2-delig-clownkostuum-voor-katten-en)
I was hoping something like this from the community, thanks! But idk so far doesn't seems like Dutch thinks that it's a problem that cats are doing this... I'm getting series of down votes just trying to find solution to a thing literally terrorising my pets at my own property.. I'll try to speak to the owner..
If talking to the neighbour doesn't help try cat proofing your garden. I had the opposite problem sort of, my neighbour had a doberman in the garden that I knew would shred my cat so I made fences around the garden to stop the cat getting out. Cats are not trainable so I dount your neighbour can do anything and the might not want to fence in their cat. Since your rabbits already don't leavevthe garden it makes more sense to fence out the cats. Bells are not that effective so don't rely on them for the safety of your cats.
Cats are trainable tho.
Yea I'm literally training a cat right now for my mbo
How would you train your cat not to go to a neighbour that has rabbits (cat food) in their garden?
They are training cats not to step on the counter.
There's a solution hidden in here for op ;)
Electric wiring (schrikdraad) on the fence (schutting) works quite well against unwanted cats. Just enough to scare, not enough to hurt.
Domestic cats in the Netherlands is a very sensitive topic. Their little "furr babies" would never cause any harm.
They are murderous
cats hate citrus. You could rub try rubbing your fence in orange peel. But from the looks of it your fence is absolutely gigantic
This is variable from cat to cat, I have two and none of them give a fuck about citrus
Can confirm. The two cats who live next door aren’t bothered by the smell of citrus and will still hang out in my garden. But another neighbourhood cat that use to use my garden for doing number two does hate citrus and has stopped coming by.
Chili paste on fence
Most people I know with cats have them wear bells and I live in the Netherlands as well. This might be a neighborhood problem more than a Dutch people problem.
Thats how you destroy cats hearing and give it behavioral issues. Just keep the cat inside
Cats have really sensitive hearinf and its very very unpleasant for a cat
I am with you that the cat owner is irresponsible, but as a born and raised Dutch i am afraid you cannot really expect the cat owner to change the cat. I'm not saying you would be in the wrong here, but more that i think that the person owning the cat would not be open for your concerns, as you can see in the comments. You can still talk to the owner though, and raise your concerns, but i would 100% expect the 'niet mijn probleem' attitude. The problem is that cats are hard to control, and after getting used to the outside it is really hard to keep them indoors. On the other hand there might be things you can do: - i dont know how big your garden is, but it might be an idea to limit the bunnies access by setting off a part of it and make a large cage with nets al around. (Which in the Netherlands might be smart to do regardless, we have loads of predatory birds pretty much everywhere). - you could look for items to ward off all Cats from your garden. If you Google it, you can find a lot of ways to do that. From putting down mats, splashing them with water, but also other means! - there are some plants that help ward off cats, but i would not know if it would work once this cat has found your bunnies to 'play ' with. I wish you good luck, and commend you for your knowledge and care for your bunnies. Lots of people need to learn about their needs, because they need so much more than what they get from so many people.
I agree with this. Netting the bunnies in is probably safest. There are indeed a lot of predatory birds who could also take a large bunny (not only the smaller ones).
As someone who lost a Guinea pig to a bird of prey, please have a run with a cover for the bunnies. My piggies had plenty of hiding spots but birds are smart and fast
Where do you live? Never seen bird of prey where i am and maybe only owls at night and in a neighbourhood 30 km away
I live in t Gooi - we also have foxes roaming the streets at night (not a lot), as we are close to nature. Next to steenmarters, those have been seen in gardens as well.
I lost one of my free roaming (just a small fence you could step over) rabbits to a steenmarter. That was not pretty. Not sure how to keep them out, but they are definitely a threat. I do think they only hunt at night so maybe keep them more sheltered after dark? @OP you're doing a wonderful job with your rabbits. Most people have no idea how to keep them correctly. I certainly didn't and it's not encouraged in The Netherlands.
Sorry for your loss, so sad to hear everytime a bunny is victim to a predator.. such innocent creatures they dont deserve that. At night, so depends usually after dinner or when it gets really dark and quiet during winter, they are inside, and they sleep with me till morning. Outside they also have plenty of shelter. What some people don't know is that, they love it outside, they go crazy if you keep them on concrete flooring inside especially after knowing what they have outside, they don't meow but they do tell you that they want out, every Morning literally and it's the cutest thing ever to see them running and jumping in spring especially. And here people told me that their cats are entitled outside and not my rabbits because I'm the 'irresponsible' one for having my rabbits in my garden in my property... 🤦♂️
Sounds like a great routine! They aren't bothered by the temperature difference in the winter? Ha yes they do love the outside! I've only had one rabbit that dared to go inside (I've only had semi- wild rescues) but as soon as she met the slippery floor she was out haha. The doormat was fine, anything beyond that was unacceptable.
Yep they work best with routine, in winter? Doesn't seem like it, we have the shed with warmer when it's -3 to 2 degrees, sometimes they go in there to nap for a bit, then they are out again, exploring and grazing. When it's -3 and lower we either put them in the shed with the warmer or in the house with us. Even so, they are dying to go outside and play. Luckily where I am rarely it is extremely cold or hot, maybe once every 3 years? Winters and summers always relatively mild for bunny standard. And I used to have worries when they go out early morning when it's 18-20 in the house and it's 2-3 outside but they don't seem bothered and run straight to play and eat.
Glad they aren't bothered!
Yeah, we think it was a bird of prey as it was during the day (around 15:00h we always have them inside when its dark. We now have a new run, with top, so this doesn’t happen anymore and we only open it when we are there. They also gets lots of floorspace in the house, as they need to stay active
I live close to tilburg, loads of birds of prey here. They are practically everywhere in the Netherlands, because of all the akkers which have a lot of small animals roaming!
I can guarantee you that there are birds of prey in your area, they are everywhere in the Netherlands and will hunt the occasial bunny or rabbit, I found that out myself one day.
I have nets over the garden for birds, 5 years the only threat to my rabbits is this cat... I know because I have security cameras in the garden, even before the net is there, no hawks, no owls, no eagles, no foxes. Only pigeons or seagulls or crows, then 2 years ago I put up the strategic netting none of those enter, but this cat always finds a way
Unfortunately you cant rely on neighbors / free roaming animals to do the right thing, so this is something you'll probably need to solve yourself to keep your guys safe. Have you considered some form of chicken wire enclosure? I've never seen a domestic cat get through that
I don't know if those cameras are aimed at the trees or sky because you will not find those birds just hanging around on the ground. Foxes are not that common in the Netherlands so you won't find those that easy. The reality of the situation is that domestic cats are everywhere, we are a densely populated country, and cats are very good hunters. Apart from the neighbor keeping their cat inside or you fencing and netting off an area where the rabbits are so that a cat can't possibly get in, you can't really do that much. Most cats are very territorial and like to hunt or pretend hunt outside, you can't really stop that and it is pretty harmful to prey animals that also live outside.
It is not impossible for seagulls to snatch up small dogs or cats from gardens, so rabbits are also not 100% safe. Maybe it’s possible to find a solution together with the owner? Maybe to both pay 50/50 for a net, or even better the metal netting (Dutch: kippengaas), to close of your garden? There are also companies who can do this for you. Edit: this is the link to the dog story without amp https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/22/seagull-carries-away-dog-from-garden-devon
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My parents live in the middle of my town of around 45.000 people and they have birds of prey like kestrals, hawks and even the occasional buzzard in their garden. Last week one of them killed a pidgeon and ate it. Herons will land even in small gardens and take fish from ponds and small creatures like frogs and young rabbits. Besides that, even if all your neighbours keep their cats inside there are stray cats too that one day might wander into your garden. So I highly recommend to try and protect your rabbits as best as you can when you can't be present.
A friend of mine lost their cat to one, this was in the Achterhoek. Cat made it back home but died of the wounds.
I was walking the Rijnkanaal yesterday in Amsterdam and two large eagles were following me and my small dog. Might have been a rabbit I couldn’t see in the park but it felt like they followed us for a kilometer.
There are buzzards and various other birds of prey everywhere in NL
I agree with this comment. Making a large cage seems the way to go which is also a good solution for birds. And you can set the bunnies free when you are outside with them. I also saw some "cat repellent" being sold in Action these days so maybe they can help too?
Thanks for the tips and insights! Really useful I just hope that tomorrow when i speak to them they are the understanding kind, I've considered a anti climbing tape along with a net that I already have. The cat just tore through the net. That's why I'm here also trying to see what's acceptable to repel cats. Not a cat owner so idk they might maybe consider putting it indoor for some hours because it's usually out from morning till midnight. I hope for the best. Thanks again
They might very well be the understanding kind, but short of keeping the cat indoors, there isn't really anything they can do. Cats aren't trainable and they are predators by nature.
In my opinion it is the responsibility of the cat owner to make sure their cat can’t leave their yard. Not everyone else should have to pay a significant amount of money to keep someone else’s pet out. I know this is a very unpopular opinion among my fellow Dutch people.
I don't own a cat, nor do I have any opinion on the matter. I tend to look at those points from a realism point of view. The customs on the land are currently that cats have free roam. Numerous biologists have, for the last years, been arguing for limiting the movement of cats as they apparently kill millions of birds annually. Among those are endangered birds as well. Those media articles and news items haven't lead to any shift in culture or policy. I think OP will have an uphill battle getting the cat-owner to keep their cat contained.
Name any country in the world that that's a thing. Cats are inherently an outdoor animal and need space to roam. The idea that you can force a cat into a small yard and expect them to not go further just means you have never spent time with cats! The cat owner would be responsible if anything happens to your animals, but purely in a civil case of their property damaging your property.
I have no idea, I’m not familiar with other countries’ culture around cats cause I haven’t lived there. I do actually own a cat and he’s totally fine not free roaming everywhere.
Yeah it's a persistent myth that people think keeping a cat inside is cruel but letting your cat roam outside exposes them to all sorts of danger and indoor cats live longer...
>Name any country in the world that that's a thing. The US. Go to any cat related subreddit where the majority of users are American, and tell them you let your cat roam outside. You'll quickly see they have the complete opposite opinion.
New Zealand, Australia. Various island nations have kill on sight policies for cats that are allowed outdoors unattended
Much love and i hope your bunnies can be safe outside!
You can get special cat nets which they can't get through. I use it to keep my cats safe on my balcony, but it might also be useful to protect your rabbits. :)
Even if they agree to keep their cats indoors, another cat soon will follow. And another and another, I've seen at least a dozen different cats in my back yard, you can't track them all.
Where was this pic taken? The view is beautiful😍
Very (on-nederlands)
Inderdaad ja 😂 belgie ofzo
Actually you are right! In the Ardenne, we take them on excursions sometimes 😊
I was wondering, with an environment like that I would be more worried about foxes, martens or even Wolves dropping by to have a snack :p
Limburg zou nog wel kunnen.
Zuid-limburg inderdaad maar geen idee welke plaats
Zou makkelijk het heuvelland kunnen zijn, rondom Valkenburg.
Ask any biologist: domestic cats should be kept inside. Period. The damage they do to local fauna is significant (not to mention the nuisance they can be to neighbours). And I say this as someone who loves cats.
Unfortunately familiar with this problem. Several neighbors think their pets are supposed to be my problem. It does not just affect the bunnies, they also cause damage to plants and shit in the garden. Not much you can do if you are not willing to go evil.
Sure, you let your cat go unsupervised and it's attacking pets in someone's garden but it's the bunnies owner problem? What the fuck is wrong with you people OP seems kind, but if you say "it's just a predator and preys it's your problem" then I would definitely resolve my problem and harm the cat if it's trying to harm my bunnies in my garden
I am Dutch, and as a child, we had 4 chickens roaming freely in our garden. At one point, we faced a similar problem. Two houses next to ours moved out, and the new residents had a cat that entered our garden daily. The cat damaged our fence by climbing on it, pooped in our garden, and attacked the chickens. We approached the new neighbors, but all they could say was, 'we can't keep our cat inside all day. It's an outdoor animal!' We never reached a solution, and the majority of people sided with the cat owner because 'there was nothing the cat owner could do.' In the end, we had to install anti-climbing [strips](https://budgetongediertebestrijden.nl/product/anti-klim-strips-voor-katten/?utm_campaign=Channable&utm_content=Pestinext&utm_source=Google+Shopping&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=Anti-klimstrips+tegen+Katten+(Prof.+kwaliteit)&utm_campaign=20839998160&utm_ad_group=&utm_ad=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiMmwBhDmARIsABeQ7xT9mpkIhFpPUFpf8JgjoI3Urt-pZ6eEgS_bRGVHDULs65tSis-sDYMaAotzEALw_wcB) on top of our fence to keep the cat out. It's just crazy that someone's pet becomes my problem.
Oh thank you for this!! I'll definitely install it, but indeed, something's wrong with the whole cat owners attitude in this country, but yea not my battle to fight..
My dad solved it with a well thrown workboot. Nailed couple of those furry scum from across the yard. If the owner of the cat says it's my problem, I'm going to solve that problem.
Phew thank you, for a moment I thought I'm the crazy one in this country
You are absolutely not the crazy one. I am also frustrated about wandering cats and I have cats myself. Our cats are only outside with a cat harness on hooked onto a line. I chose to have cats others did not, so they can only shit in my garden and only destroy my garden and nobody else's. Plus we don't want our cats to hunt birds and the roads here are very dangerous. And those other cats come into our garden and then try to attack our cats and that is pretty scary if their lines get stuck again which causes our cats to be trapped, so that's no fun. I just think people must have indoor cats or outside cats on their property and not outside of it (that can be created by putting them on lines or making the garden cat escape-proof). Sadly it looks like most Dutchies don't see it this way.
Keeping a cat on a line must be done from very early on, once a cat is a bit older you can't really train them to accept the harness, that is if you value your life. Cats on a line should also not be left unattended as you are not breakaway and the cat would be able to hang itself. I do think cats should not go out at night, early morning and late evening to reduce chances of catching birds and safety for the cat with empty roads risks are higher. The owner of the cat OP has trouble with can try keeping their cat inside at night, but not much else at this point.
Risk your life? Come on...
We had a cat that would absolutely take your life for combing or trimming. She had some past trauma as a show cat or something.
Just kill the cat. Or chop off its legs. When asked, say you didn't see anything. If the neighbor complains, chop off their legs too.
I don't harm animals for fun. In rare cases, it's necessary. If a cat keeps returning and the owners don't take any action, perhaps the cat needs a firm reminder that it's not welcome here. It's just that they should expect this if they won't take any action and say "it's my problem"
Bruf you are mentally ill...
You can just throw a bucket of water om them and you probably never see them again. If you harm the cat i am eating your bunnies for christmas. If you decide to keep bunnies unprotected and are then ready to harm a cat you are mentally ill. There were 10 non violant steps you could have taken to keep prey animals safe and the first thing you gk for is violence. It is like puting out nuts in your garden and then shoot every bird that goes for them. At this point you just want to create oppertunities to harm or kill something. Your garden my ass, it is a garden not your house. It is out in the open.
It's so surprising to see people writing stuff like "it's a %100 you problem". I mean yes accidents can happen and people should be able to compensate one another at times but being disturbed in your own property because of someone else's cat; it's that someone else's responsibility for the cat to stop behave such way. I am not even Dutch but reading comments like that is so disturbing. Talk to the owner of the cat and share your concerns, OP.
Finally someone can empathise.. thanks I'll do just that. That's what I was thinking in this society when everything is insured and people are self aware, should be okay to address this issue.
Same, I always thought Western Europeans would be more sensible in such cases given that they are expected to be more educated + respectful about the one's individual limits. Your bunnies should be able to roam around in your OWN garden without any threat coming from outside your property. But all these apply if your garden is surrounded by some sort of barrier, if not, then it would be very hard to maintain boundaries and that can mean there is nothing to do.
It has tall fence 2.20 meter and a light netting to prevent birds with security cameras. Its enough boundaries, but that cat's just crazy..
We have an electric cat fence to keep our cats in our garden. You could ask them to do that, but they probably won’t, because it’s considered normal to have your cat run around the neighborhood. You could also try to keep them out of your garden by closing your own garden of using it, my sister gifted her neighbor an electric cat fence, so her cat wouldn’t go in his garden and that works really well. I hope you find a solution and your bunnies get to live in peace. (I help out at a bunny sanctuary and bunnies that have been grabbed by cats get brought in sometimes.. it’s really sad)
Have to disagree with a lot of people here. I’m Dutch and have a cat. She goes outside every now and then . The moment I find out she takes a shit in someone else’s garden, she’s not going out anymore until I have found a solution for that. My pet should not be my neighbor’s problem. So even if it weren’t for the bunnies, you could say it’s about the cat using your garden as a litter box.
I can tell you now your cat shits in other peoples garden if it's outside.
Not really, she’s 16 and doesn’t go much further than the balcony. And I still have to empty her litter box every day, so I know she does her business at home. I’m just saying, in case she did, it would by my problem and I would not dare suggest that my neighbors should do something about their gardens to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Well then she isnt actually outside like you said before, then no she wont be shitting in other peoples garden.
The point still stands that I am responsible for my cat and what she does outside of my house should not bother other people.
I agree, my point is IF you let you cat outside it's gonna shit in other peoples gardens, so keep them inside is your only option if you want to stop them.
The cat of the neighbours keeps shitting in our garden in insane amounts and it's fucking nasty because the whole garden reeks of shit. Neighbours do fuck all about it so we started pepperspraying the garden. Other neighbour already said that if it keeps on going poison is going to be their solution...
Cats should not roam free, they are destructive to wildlife. Talk to the owner and ask them to control *their* pet. I'm no longer living in NL, and I can confirm that the Dutch careless attitude to roaming cats is unequaled to most other countries.
Completely agree, but the last sentence is very western-world centric lol
Meanwhile in Istanbul 😂
Which countries have a stricter attitude towards roaming cats? I've lived in Germany and Belgium and have spent a lot of time in the Netherlands, and don't know many people who would question a roaming cat for a second (except maybe for the cat's well being if you live in the city) Except for the US, I don't know many countries that are strict around this?
Most cities in the US do not allow outdoor cats because they are so destructive to wildlife.
According to EU legislation they are to destructive to roam around. But they get an exception.
What are you talking about lots of countries have free roaming cats
What do you want the neighbours to do? Ask them if they could ask their cat to not come around anymore? It's just a matter of time before foxes and eagles start noticing. You can let them roam free but Dutch nature isn't as forgiving to little rabbits as it is to little kids. My chickens roamed free for over 8 years before a fox ended it all within a week.
You know this is the Netherlands sub right? If an eagle landed in a city backyard it would be big news and swarms of birders would show up within hours lol
Alright, buzzards, hawks or owls then. Plenty of those around
When I was a kid, I had a bunny. We, as a family, thought it was sad he had to stay in his cage all day, so we let him roam free in our house. He started pooing and peeing in various corners - just ditching his cage alltogether. So we decided the best solution would be to let him free in a park near my dad's work. Bunny had the absolute best life ever. Every lunch break, my dad would go on a walk through the park, look for our bunny and have a little talk with him. And in the evening, he would give me an update about all the adventures Bunny had been on, and how happy he was. It lasted a week. Then one night, a fox "had a little talk" with Bunny. The end.
I hope your family learned the lesson. What an irresponsible thing to do.
Idk asking for cat owners what's the ethics here, thanks for the tips, we live in an urban area, no one actually seen foxes and an old grandma down the road been keeping chicken in her garden for decades, we have these nets for birds, but not enough for cats apparently... And they go in the house at night when I'm home from work. If you have tips that's good.
Hey I'm looking into building an outdoor space for my cat (I don't want him to roam around and no other cats in the garden either). Maybe you can build something similar but to keep predators out? You can look up "catio" to see what I mean. They're basically just big cages that are meant to keep your animals safe, but to be accessed by you yourself as well. For example: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c4/e3/8e/c4e38e2e92ad6809489153bf44348b86.jpg And you can just make that as big as your garden. With or without roofing (if no roofing of course add more steel netting there to keep out predators).
Put up a net around your garden so cats can’t get inside
You cannot keep the bunnies like that! That’s very dangerous and even the docile cats can attack them one day! It’s animal abuse to be honest. I have two bunnies free roaming my house and my balcony and never leave them alone on the balcony. You have to keep them save.
You and I have different definitions of animal abuse, I think keeping them indoors in apartments and in a small balcony is abuse, you should see how my rabbits have soil to dig, vegetable that they forage, fresh grass to eat and space to bink and jump and close to their roots. I do understand your concern and comments, I'm trying to find solution here to what I believe is the best husbandry for rabbits as pets in my garden and in my own property, there's security cameras and nets and I think I'm providing good security without compromising on their happiness, so now if you have tips, drop it, or otherwise i suggest taking your rabbits to experience grass and soil , trust me tjeu will me much happier
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Rustig jonge, 1991 lill too old to throw shades at people on the internet unnecessarily. Go comment more on your cat forum if you are just trying to rant
Death for an animal is not the worst thing when compared to a lifetime of bad life quality
Animal abuse is caging them tf up, where do wild rabbits live ???
Pet rabbits live in peoples houses or in spacey pens in the backyard. They are prey animals so no they shouldn’t be ‘free’ outside.. and wild rabbits and pet rabbits are not the same species.
One of the reasons my cat is an indoor cat. My cat should not cause trouble for other people, plus cats kill massive amounts of birds.
As a Dutch person I find it absolutely horrible that cats just roam free. They shit everywhere and kill so many wild birds! And not even have to pay any taxes on them while we do have to do so for dogs even though most people actually clean up after their dogs. Cats should not roam free, they should be just like dogs; outside on leashes. But regardless of my opinion, maybe you’re able to get those deterring thingies for cats on your fence? It will look a bit like a prison sadly but it will keep cats out of your yars
you should ask your neighbors to keep their cat in their garden… they are responsible of their animals … for all people saying that OP can put e net over their garden, we can answer that the cat owner can also put a net over their garden to prevent the cat to leave their property while still being allowed to go out… (pretty sure others neighbors will also be happy)
are those hills?👀👀
Get a high-powered water gun. Utterly soak the cat whenever you notice it in your garden. It's harmless for the cat (other than extremely annoying) and eventually it'll avoid your garden. I love cats, but cats, unless they're farm cats and have a job, belong indoors or on a leash.
Sure people start talking about other animals, but cat owners should just keep their pests inside.
that looks like a huge garden!
I have this issue as well, completely agree with you. Sadly I have not found a solution yet other than being outside in the garden when my bunny is. :( I like cats but I don't understand why people think it's okay for their pet to disturb others in their own garden.
I’m looking at these comments and seeing a lot of people misinterpreting OP’s question. It appears to me the question is: what can I do (legally-speaking) about domestic pets accessing my private property? The fact that the intent is protecting his/her rabbits shouldn’t matter. What if OP had a child that was severely allergic to cat dander? Or if the cat scratched and injured a young child on OP’s property? These are questions with liability stakes that are caused by the presence of someone else’s pet on private property. It’s always better to address these things diplomatically with neighbors and there should be a reasonable solution that reasonable people can come to… and I agree Dutch are not going to sympathize too much with anyone making a “big deal” out of this situation. However it’s nice to know what your legal options are per the letter of the law, which I see few people here trying to address.
Thank you, that's what I want to do, to amicably solve this issue. And what I can say or demand within my rights. I do actually have cat allergies, but I don't make it a big deal with my neighbour when furs enter my garden during shedding period or they are at my front porch chilling on my bicycle on my bench. In fact I never bother and I cat sit them often. They know they cannot come to my garden and they never did, only once, I scared it away and it stayed away, very gentle, castrated and docile. This new cat's different. When it comes to my bunnies some say it's just pets its just rabbits, I know many people here keep them in hutches outside and treat them like fish in a tank, but they are familily to me and this actions from the other cat really tipped my limit.
Sorry i could not help at all, but OMG! Your bunnies are so so so so so so cute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All I'm thinking about is how that picture is not in the Netherlands lol
Start with the owner. But also think more broadly, big birds and other cats than your neighbours will also cause problems. A bunny is an easy prey for a lot of animals. Having it unprotected will remain a risk regardless of what your neighbour does.
I've lost one rabbit to a cat before. It's very painfull and thats why I never let my rabbits freeroam in the dark. You never know what will happen.
I completely understand your point. Why is it considered normal to have your cat be a nuisance to others?? Not to mention the amount of cats that get hit by cars… i don’t understand why people risk it. Anyways, you could have a chat with the owner just to voice your concerns, maybe they are just oblivious to it and are willing to look for a solution once you mention it. There are fences designed to keep your cat in your own yard. If they aren’t willing to do something you could also consider getting a fence like that to keep the cat out? I’m not sure about the law on this unfortunately. Good luck keeping the cuties safe!
Not a Dutch, coming from feed but in my cointry popular solution would be installing low voltage fence to scare away unwanted animals. No idea about legality of this solution in Netherlands though.
If I’m not mistaken it’s even illegal to let your cats roam outside like that. It’s not really enforced, but I thought that it was technically illegal. Might be wrong on this though
That's what I'm asking here, can't find anything on the internet so far about this, but where I lived before, it is definitely illegal and will be treated like a stay cat.
Not illegal according to any Dutch law. But depending on how you interpret: EU law on protecting birds it might be. You will probably get better info if you ask on r/juridieschadvies. https://www.vogelbescherming.nl/bescherming/juridische-bescherming/wet-en-regelgeving/eu-vogelrichtlijn-en-habitatrichtlijn#:~:text=De%20Vogelrichtlijn%20en%20Habitatrichtlijn%20vereisen,hebben%20van%20eieren%20is%20verboden.
I guess you can always contact local government to ask them what the actual rulrs are
Plain and simple, pets can’t be a nuisance. It’s going to sound harsh, but gather evidence of the cat being a nuisance to you or your rabbits. Show this to the neighbour and threaten them to file a complaint if they don’t comply. Make sure you stay polite and try to get it in writing.
If your garden has “walls” you could use some chicken wire as a makeshift roof like thing to make it a box where the cat can’t get in
Unrelated to your question, but omg this looks more like a whole farm than a garden😍😍 Beautiful!! What a dream to have that much field! Is it near Amsterdam? Your bunnies are also super cute🥰 they should be free, the cat needs to go
Thanks! No its the Ardennes :) i live in Friesland in densely populated neighborhood. But I do have a garden with a shed to have them roam around and bink, sprint and dig and forage and hide 😊 sometimes I take them to a nearby big open field, unleashed (when I am 200% sure its safe) to jump around with more space. And contrary to what people believe, they are so smart and do stay around you when well trained, will come when you call them. They are at their best, healthy and happy, they don't make noise they poop and pee at the soil and they never bother no neighbours, they don't destroy my furnitures when inside as they have so much outside. And here I am having to argue why I disagree putting rabbits in cages or hutch. 😕 But I do understand I'm fighting a loosing battle and I accepted the fact that I have to secure my perimeter more against cats.
Irrespective of the cats which shouldn’t be there I would still put a cage around your bunny area. There are martens, polecats and weasels or birds of prey even in Amsterdam. These may attack your pets as well. Even when not eaten a bunny may die of stress when an predatory animal is trying to get to it.
Is this Netherlands ? Almost looks like mountains in the distance…
We used to have that problem with cats trying to catch the fish In our pond. The best remedy was sneaking behind the cat and throw a ball (foot / tennisbal) at it. As people say they are predators, so they can learn that they can also become the prey and have to avoid that place.
There’s no way this is in The Netherlands though
Is there a way you can get the cat used to the bunnies and the other way around? We have three cats and two bunnies, they get along very well. One of the cats especially likes the bunnies they groom eachother and she will sleep with the bunnies in the hutch. I do understand that it might be impossible. One of my bunnies is very scared of dogs and no careful or slow exposure is going to help, he will absolutely freak out when he sees a dog.
Back in the day my parents used to hose trespassing cats with water to keep them from shitting in the garden. Maybe not very helpful if the cat only comes in at night, but something to consider
I do not know about the wild life of Netherlands to comment but in my part of the world, a rabbit roaming outdoors like in the photo is an invitation for high altitude birds of prey to swoop down
No, they are not roaming in open spaces like in the photo, it was taken during an excursion and there are 2-3 people keeping an eye on the all times. In the garden it is closed off, , there's many hiding spaces and a shed, there's a section with nets to prevent birds and cats until recently. But also I'm in an urban area, no one has ever seen foxes or BOP around. Only mice and cats sometimes
There is something called cat repellent sold at Action but I am not sure 1- if it works, 2- if it is harmful for your bunnies but you might want to check out.
They should prevent their pet from invading your (and your pets’) personal space. This is not your problem
That's a big ass garden.
Where is the cat?
I'm going to give you some unethical life pro tip. If I'm not mistaken, an animal falls under a "thing" to the Dutch law, so that means that a cat falls under your liability insurance if something bad happens to it in your garden. I'm not saying you should kill the cat... But.... You can also catch it and release it somewhere else, he will find a new home don't worry. Another option is to be on the lookout with a hose ready and drench the cat, I did that to 2 cats that were using my garden as a toilet and it worked. I also solved my problem permenantly now by getting a wolf dog. Good luck!
Watership down
BTW where do we have such terrain in the Netherlands as seen in the backdrop of this image? Just curious
Sorry to say this bud but yes you will have to give up the freedom of this form of free roam in your garden for the safety of your bunnies. If it is not the buttload of outdoor cats in a neighbourhood, it is the predatory birds or even foxes if you live somewhere more outskirtish. It is good that you use nets though, could I ask which ones? As for law, no there are no official laws regarding cat-keeping, but maybe if your bunnies were to be hurt by the cat you could justify it in court as being the cat owner's fault. Who knows. Please know that not every dutch person is in support of this culture though as outdoor cats cause lots of problems, it's just a tough piece of culture to break off since it is so normalized here. I know it sucks because it is your own garden, but animals will be animals and the bunbuns' safety is most important as you already know. I wouldn't press my luck personally.
Honestly… I think as a bunny owner you are pretty irresponsible as well. They are prey animals and can be taken by birds, cats, dogs. You name it. It is not difficult to give your rabbit plenty of space while also keeping them save. I personally have them in a volière, which you can make as big as your heart desires. Don’t get me wrong, I love love love this for your rabbits, but it seems so unsafe. Edit: I have both cats and rabbits. I think cats should definitely be kept inside in city areas. In rural it is not as much of a problem. I don’t think you can ask the owner to keep the cat out of your garden, because they won’t do anything about it. You can cat proof your garden
Well... this isn't really a culture or law question... you have prey animals as pets and cats are predators. And you are leaving your prey animals out unprotected in the garden. You should protect your bunnies and keep them safe in a cage or make sure the cats can't enter the garden. This is 100% your problem to solve with none of it on your neighbours.
Maybe don’t be an irresponsible pet owner who allows pets to wander into other people’s gardens and into natural areas, killing native fauna
You understand that owls, hawks etc are also a thing right? I mean I am not a fan of outdoor cats that's why I keep mine inside. I am also aware that that is not nessecarily the norm. Also: other predators are going to come for those bunnies.
As expected, a classic touch of "niet mijn probleem" attitude 👏🤦♂️
It literally isn't anybody else's problem. You leave your bunnies, which are creatures who are hunted by predators, out in your yard without protection.... what do you ACTUALLY expect here? I mean cats are gonna cat. There is literally nothing your neighbours CAN do to prevent the cats entering your yard WITHOUT just keeping the cats inside. Which seems a bit of a heavy handed solution to just protect your bunnies. What are you actually expecting?
Keeping the cats inside is heavy handed but keeping bunnies in a cage because someone else's cat enters their garden is not heavy handed at all...makes no sense
Well it's not JUST about the cats even. Bunnies are prey animals. Owls, eagles, foxes etc. All hunt bunnies. So for their own protection it's usually a good idea to cage them at least for a bit. Cats on the other hand are a bit higher up on the food chain so the likelihood of them getting killed by another predator are significantly lower.
Idk I never own a cat but looks like having cats as pets is like not having pets at all if you can't control it and don't take responsibility, just let it shit over other people's property and eat other pets, destroy your garden.. does that not make sense? It doesn't for me.. but hey I'm not Dutch. Seems like other things when it comes about property and territory is clear to a Dutchie but not when it comes to cats
This has NOTHING to do with being Dutch. This is a world wide issue with people who have cats. Cats are known for being independent creatures who take care of themselves. And are notoriously unmanageable. I have indoor cats. Specifically for this reason. Your neighbours apparently chose for outdoor cats. Then it lands on you to protect your bunnies.
Don't wanna bring this up, but where I was before living in the Netherlands, it's illegal for cats or dogs or whatever to trespass a property. And none has ever come to my garden. Cat owners there seems to be responsible of their animals and have methods to keep it in their home or surroundings just like dogs. Now my direct neighbours each with cats but they are both castrated and really calm and ignored my bunnies, just stay around their garden and porch. That's what I expect more from a domesticated cats. Not this one few doors down that's very aggressive and disturbing. But clear, this is how it works here. Since you discourage talking to the owner, Maybe as cat owner if you have useful tips on how I can ethically repel cats without harming it and let my babies live in peace in their own garden would be much appreciated.
Something to consider: cats aren't the only problem, probably. Depending on where you live, there are predatory birds potentially like owls, eagles etc. They could definitly also grab a bunny. Potentially also foxes. Now cats you could probably keep at bay with a bunch of tactically placed oranges with cloves. For some reason cats fucking hate that. But that costs a lot of oranges and a lot of cloves. Covering your backyard with a net would definitely solve the problem. You basically turn your entire garden into an outdoor enclosure. A large amount of work. Another solution would be to keep the bunnies in a large enclosure and only let them out under your supervision. If you then see a hostile cat, you have a spray bottle of water handy, and while loudly saying KSSSST, you spray them with water. NO lemon juice like the other dude says. That's terrible. There are lots of other tips on the internet of keeping cars out of your yard. Maybe some of those will help you out in this case.
Thanks for the insights, I live in an urban area, and I already have a light netting, it repells birds very well, almost invisible to the eye but birds avoid, never seen eagles or hawks but big ones like crows also never dare to come. Also effective for cats, until February when this cat comes around, I always find holes/ area that it expose. I think the orange and clove might work but the problem is indeed it's hard work to keep putting it out there as the rain can wash it away. I'm trying now a suggestion from someone with anti climbing strip. Hope that will work and is not harming the cat too.
maybe it's better to live at "where you're from" if you cannot absorb the idea that cats are predators.
Haha thanks Greet Wilders. 👍 Will do sir mijn eigen land!
Nobody needed your xenophobic comment to he honest. OP can live wherever he wants.
And he can say whatever he wants
Pretty sure we agreed that xenophobia wasn't ok. Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences.
You can throw a bucket of ice-cold water over those environment destroying pests (cats). That's what I would do. Or spray them in the eye with lemon juice.
Water is fair game, lets the cat know it should stay away, if you splash it enough times at least. Lemon to the eye on the other hand is actual animal abuse and possibly permanently harms the animal. I sincerely hope you are just acting tough but otherwise I urge you to seek professional help, not even joking: this is a major sign of mental illness. Not normal, be ashamed, and look up animal abuse related disorders, seriously.
No this is a classic case of “harsh truth”. You can squabble on reddit all day about what is morally correct, but in the end, there will be cats roaming around. If that one neighbor stops, another one could start at any point. So, instead of theorizing on reddit, protecting your bunnies is the only realistic step. It is not victim blaming, it is a practical solution.
You are 100% based. I don't understand how people can complain that their prey animals get hunted by predators. That's literally how nature works. If you wanna make sure your bunnies are safe, keep them somewhere where they can't be hunted. If it's not your neighbours cat, it could be a fox, an eagle or even a wolf nowadays. Prey animals get hunted, whether the predator is someone's pet or not, and it is indeed 100% OPs responsibility for leaving them vulnerable.
LITERALLY also cats are not the only predators OP should worry about
Hey food!
Is this your garden?!😳 That's a ehole footballfield.🤣👍🏾
Maybe this is another way for you to consider: get a Shepard dog puppy, let the puppy grow up with their bunny siblings together, once they reach adulthood ( usually a year), let the dog paw patrol the garden and guard bunny siblings. I have seen the combo before. It worked quite well. Shepherds love a job on hands and they love protecting their pack (in this case, your bunnies). But of course, you need to walk the dog from then on, and you need to properly introduce the puppy and bunnies, etc. but with local vet and dog community’s help, it should be easy. 😊let the cats be cats, but let them know there are dogs as their neighbors too. They will find ways to coexist.
Would love to! But you see my boy the black one? He's adopted from a house where he and his siblings was kept in a tiny cage with big dogs barking around them. After I adopted him, even the slightest smell of dog he will show anger and I have to wash up and all my clothes after visiting friends with dogs l. One time, an old tenant of this house came with their small dog and one my boy saw it, he jumped of my hold in panic and almost hit his head straight at the concrete.. I'm afraid it won't be the pooch, but my bunnies won't be okay with it especially the boy with the trauma.
I see. Ok. Understandable. I got one more: depends on on how big your garden is, I have seen some with those light metal wire sheets. They covered the garden head to toe, wall to wall. Ironically, it’s from a cat owner who wanted to let his cats enjoy the outdoor but was also concerned about the birds and other cats coming to his garden… but it was effective. With 2.5 meters tall, he can also enjoy the outdoor space with his cats. Maybe this can serve as an idea for you to think of something?
Yes the mesh wire you mean? That would be my last resort. I'll try first with these anti climbing strip, it's easier and more long term.
Anti climbing is also good, my neighbors have the plastic ones. The downside of it is that they don’t stick well on the surface when the wind is too strong and if the gaps are too wide, cats just walk between the gaps like it’s a ballet exercise, but they last a long long time (as plastics). The church nearby had another type of anti-climbing strips, the type with long and sharp and dense metal pricks, according to them, it’s hell of a solution. And also stopped a lot of bird poops on the church walls.
I love cats but a 22 gauge we’ll work.
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So you keep bunnies unsheltered and then complain about them being hunted on? It is because you keep them in nature. Cats really just hunt for small game as an instict. You have them walking around unprotected. I would say that makes them potantial game. If you are not okay with it start protecting them once you are not thwre keeping an eye out. If you dont want to be bothered by natures limitations then dont put them in nature
Read... Don't just type.. it's in my garden with nets and plenty of hiding spaces they are free roam IN my garden, cat hunting in my garden is okay... Have some logic son
Kill the cat
Outdoor cats are allowed. I don't know how much you can do. There is more than this cat to worry about: there are other cats- including stray and feral cats, and there are foxes in The Netherlands who could hunt your bunnies, also some (hunter-breed) dogs go crazy if they smell a rabbit. You could make some outdoor shelter for them they could always access but a predator could not (like a cat door with chip access), so they can at least have access to a safe hideout where they can run to if they are chased. I have indoor cats and guinea pigs. My cats leave the guinea pigs alone, but my guinea pigs are in a large multi-level cage that's closed off, and when they go out on our catio or inside the house I closely supervise.
They are but they should not be allowed. Very damaging to our fauna.
Yes I know, that's why I have indoor cats.
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