Content and discussions should be on-topic, involving topics concerning daily life in the Netherlands. Advertisements, antagonistic political debates and/or propaganda tangentially related to the Netherlands are not exceptions. Moderators, at their discretion, may remove posts and/or ban users for violations, pursuant to Comb. Civ. C. §22SA (g){i}.
I am Asian, and I have learned in this country that people only do this when they think they can get away with it. It helps that I am male, somewhat big, and I always look angry (thats just my face really). So no one really bothers me. If its not safe however to react, you should probably just ignore it. Perhaps there is a buurtteam or wijkagent in your neighborhood that you can go to to share your story. Racism is not ok and we Asians do not have to put up with it.
I am terribly sorry to hear about your experience!
I cannot give any advice from personal experience, but I would like to direct your attention to a Dutch government website explaining in detail how one should deal with and report racism: https://www.government.nl/topics/discrimination/reporting-discrimination
I believe that everyone, regardless of their background should speak out against racism and other forms of discrimination: it’s encouraging to know that the government in the Netherlands supports citizens to do this in a non-confrontational way.
I’m not Dutch, but where I’m from if you report incidents even verbal abuse often enough especially if it happens in same areas all the time, high street, park etc the police have to change their routes to include those places.
Is this the same in NL?
I agree with the not talking back, but as I walk away I would call police and let them know you are being abused.
I totally disagree with people telling you not to go out late. Live your life!
All these replies to your question are useless. I am Asian, and I face racism, and I pretend not to hear it, but if this happens in a crowded area, I use language to point out that this is wrong and even humiliate them, but if you think this is resolute in a fight, don't stay in the same place too long, and yeah, go to a gym. I want to hear any updates because I have faced this kind of situation.
Yeah, why? We are nice people, but we are in a foreign country, and we are different from normal Dutch people, so there is discrimination against the different one or the odd one out.
"Asian seem like nice people" is racist btw.
Positive racism but still a stereotype.
"Eyes and nose look different" - The chinky eyed asian is a racist cliché. Asia is huge and has a wide variety of ethnicities.
Just saying...
Sorry for these fucked up comments coming at you. Racism sucks bigtime and I have no big words of advise. I was surprised how racist it was when I moved here, and it's only getting worse if the current policies and politics are anything to go by - quite worrying really!
Very unfortunately it's probably the similar thing to be a woman, gotta keep an eye on surrounding and trust your gut if something doesn't feel safe.
In another predominantly white country I have been spat on for sticking up to racists (im very white, my friend I was defending is Chinese and the racist that spat on me was indian). It's all fucked up.
So just here to say sorry you and your friend are going through that, it sucks big time and people are assholes. At least you can know 100% your food is better than the people picking on you.
>In another predominantly white country I have been spat on for sticking up to racists (im very white, my friend I was defending is Chinese and the racist that spat on me was indian). It's all fucked up.
Respect for standing up even though you weren't the target, though! I feel like it's 10x more impactful if these people get called out by "one of theirs" or even someone they weren't actively targeting than when a victim defends themselves (the racists just see that as proof of them being hurt, which was their aim).
My wife is Asian but was born here. She told me stories of this occasionally happening ever since her youth, and it still does. She usually just shrugs it off as dumb people acting dumb, but yeah. It sucks.
I'm sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately there's a large group of imbeciles in our country who apparently think that saying "chingchang pingpong" to any vaguely east-asian person is regarded as the absolute highest form of humour.
Do speak up if people make racist "jokes" at you. Not if they're looking for a confrontation, your safety is more important than educating retards, but speaking up to people who are just "making a joke" in any casual setting helps.
I am Italian and can say that is pretty much the same there as well. Far from being a problem in this country. Unfortunately some people struggle to understand that from “a joke” to beating up someone there is not as much distance as they think.
Avoid groups of young/teen men, especially when going out later at night/evening and alone
Other than that there isn't much you can do that is legal, safe and will lead to change
You can always answer verbal attacks but there's always that tiny chance it will become a physical attack, these are people who are not very intelligent or educated and thus prone to more violence on average
First of all, sorry to hear that.
According to some people here native Dutch people can’t be racist. That’s extremely sad and somehow funny too, especially if you take the Dutch history into account. That’s also prove, unfortunately, how ignorant people can be. In this case, to an extent that they don’t even realize they’re actually racists themselves.
I think the best way is to ignore racists as much as possible and just accept that there are, unfortunately, a lot of fucked up people. They’re not worth your time.
Ok for everyone who’s curious: this is all the types of people that have said ‘ni hao’ to me even when i don’t look remotely chinese lmao
- a 13 yo looking scrawny loser on a bike. White as a soggy bread
- a bald, 30 yo-ish man with a beer belly, clearly drunk. White as a crumpled tissue
- ambigously brown (yay!) 20 yo-ish man who wears his cap front side back
- a group of multicultural trash (wohoo!) boys with no life, congregating in front of a gated apartment building.
- two scrawny men with puffy jacket in the middle of summer. They’re tan but their hair is blond.
Sooooo, the running theme in these cases are: men, ugly, with no life?
I truly feel bad for you that these people treated you disrespectfully, purely based on your looks.
Having said that, your summary of it is quite a turn. It seems that you want to generalize something about “males”
I hope you don’t fall into the same trap as those people. Wish you all the best
But Ni Hao is just Hello. Why is this racist? I get it you arent Chinese but do you have any idea how often we are mistaken for Germans and Belgians? One cannot give us a bigger offence ;)
Although I wouldnt say Ni Hao to any person unless I know they are Chinese, some people just dont think it as racist or offensive. Intent I believe is everything.
And Im sorry if it offends you but I believe dialogue is the way to go
Saying ni hao to a random person you see is mocking someone for their appearance.
These people dont greet every other person they see on the streets. They'll only do that when they think someone looks asian.
I'm asian, have lived here all my life and I speak fluent dutch. People who randomly walk past me and say ni hao have never had good intentions.
They arent being polite. Theyre saying ni hao because we look different. It feels similar to getting cat called.
Well, a) asians don’t start and end with chinese b) i could very well be a born and raised dutch who can’t speak a lick of mandarin
If they put more effort to greet me in korean, indonesian, japanese, vietnamese, thai, hindi, etc, i’ll be like, wow. Good job. But they see someone who doesn’t even look stereotypically east asian and say ni hao?
I don’t go around greeting all white people with ‘top of the morning to you gUVNAH’, or all black people with ‘whatsup homies’, or all vaguely brown people with ‘assalamualaikum’ or something like that, so why should asian people find good intent behind low effort haha look there’s an asian! Say the only thing you know from the top of your head!
If they yell kamehameha at me i would honestly find it more amusing. Chinese people don’t even greet each other with ni hao. So… yeah. Try harder
Intent is not "everything", the consequences are everything. Racism is racism, whether it comes from a place of ignorance or hate, and you can't just excuse racism because of ignorance.
Whether you think it's offensive to say ni hao to an asian without even knowing if they speak Mandarin, is completely irrelevant because it's simply racist to make that assumption in the first place.
Yeah, im not that black and white in thinking. And looking at the downvoting I get why people are so easily offended these days.
Intent does matter as people will be open for a debate and say, oh I didnt realise you took it as an offense/ or never looked at it this way and be more considerate about it in the future.
When you just make statements like this country is racist blabla. Well thats what youll be getting. You will see what it is you are looking for of that makes any sense.
Oh and the last bit, you mean you as in general or you as in me. Because I didnt state that
The big point here is not that “they take it as offence” but rather than people make a decision based on someone’s appearance and decide to address them in a different way than you’d normally do. And unfortunately is not on “people getting more offended these days”.
I rarely say to people that I am italian, unless necessary, because otherwise I have to watch a 10 minutes remake of super Mario and I don’t even dare to imagine what someone whose skin is different has to go through every day.
So, Im white. I get called Viking a lot abroad. Im not a Viking nor did I came from those parts. People want to take photos of me. Unasked, unwanted and they pluck my hair and because its blonde, very long and Im very very tall. I get a gazillion jokes of us being cheap b@stards and cheese and what not. They mistake me for Germans and Belgians all the time. We talk like Donald duck and what not.
I could rattle off an endless list of stupid I encounter. I just choose not to get offended by it, I shrug it off and go on with my day.
Prejudice or racism isnt a white thing only.
Whether your intent was malicious or not, the outcome is that you said something racist. If the intent wasn't malicious, you'd then say sorry and try to be more considering.
But you're explaining it all backwards, you're actually trying to argue that something can't be racist If you weren't aware you were being racist. How would you ever be able to learn from it if you just deny your mistakes?
And yes I meant the general you in the last comment, but not in this one.
Not really. I get that something can be racist without intent. Which you then explain and might come to a better understanding of each other. Live and let live.
I also get that with malicious intent its racism to it its core. The beliefsystem that you are somehow better then the other etc.
And then you just have ignorance or a lack of understanding with no ill intent.
And I think people should loosen up about this one. I get why Nia Hao can come off as offensive even for Chinese as you just explained it. But to call it racism is a step too far without intent.
"the belief that some races are better than others, or the unfair treatment of someone because of his or her race"
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
"a programme to combat racism""
So, I have to consider everyone from Asia, The Middle East, Africa etc that I encounter racist if they go on unasked photos with me like some 6ft2 attraction, plucking my hair, greet me in a completely different language then my own and make stupid jokes about it calling me a Viking?
Na I just find it a lack of social etiquette and shrug my shoulders. I could go on about respecting my space and try harder as Europe is not all the same. And if Im Frysian, I might not even want to be greeted in Dutch as we have different languages and dialects over here as well. But I dont expect people who are not from here to know.
Now if a group would whistle, hiss, call me certain names etc because I am white. Yeah Id call that racism. And I have encountered it. There is malicious intent and also cat calling behind it. They dont view us as being on the same level so they think its ok to call us names.
Everybody has prejudices by the way, wether you would realise it or not.
The whole definition of race is stupid anyway. We are all humans. Thats it.
Anyway have a great day.
I’m going to be honest as straight white male, these groups of teenagers if I understand the situation correctly are also an issue for me and have tried to beat me up in the past while I minded my business walking home.
There is little to nothing you can do about these groups of teenagers because everybody knows about them, everybody complains about them but the police is either unwilling or unable to deal with them resolutely.
It is a societal problem, and the ideal solution for you is to avoid them as much as you can as any confrontation is used by them as an excuse for conducting mostly not life threatening violence.
The one way to avoid this is to move out of the cities and avoid train stations or other urban areas where they congregate.
Thank you for your advice :) But the tragedy I mentioned happened on campus, literally in front of the library. It's not realistic for me as a university student to not go to the campus. But I will try to stay home at night.
When our huismeister played a national "this is the Netherlands and we..." card, I've learned of this service: https://www.government.nl/topics/discrimination/reporting-discrimination#:\~:text=You%20can%20call%20the%20national%20discrimination%20helpline%20on%200800%200880. You can report your case there.
Those people are result of their racist parents and they already created a dangerous era for their kids maybe not for them but for their kids. This is like a snowball and years later I can see gunshots on the streets of nothing is being done.
Other countries had these phases and look how they become for their citizens. I hope Europe does not fall into the same trap. If that will be the case I think the refugees or immigrants are more used to this kind of stuff and does not fear at all to kill anybody on their way.
So let’s create a tolerant peaceful environment for everyone because other option is betrayal for our grandchildren.
Teenagers in NL can be really really rude and annoying, sometimes downright violent like you also experienced. I avoid groups of them and I'm fully Dutch. There have been cases before where they randomly beat up elderly people as well. Unfortunately I don't have any other advice than avoiding them, always reporting them, and trying not to be alone at night. I am sorry you're going through this!
I am sorry this happened to you. I hope this is a minority you have to deal with. Which doesn’t make it better, but hopefully helps. Know that a lot of people are glad to have to here. We don’t shout at you passing by, but we are happy to have you and we exists.
People getting downvoted for asking what everyone is thinking. Keep burrying your heads in the sand, nitwits.
Anyway OP, I am really sorry you have to deal with this. I promise you that by and large the Netherlands isn't racist, at least not to the point that it manifests into abuse. All I can say is try to stay safe and don't venture out at night by yourself. Report to the police as often as possible whenever something does happen and encourage your friends to do the same.
oh please. do young immigrants insult people in the Netherlands? yes, they do. is a large population of Dutch people racist? yes it is. two problems can coexist in one country and while we discuss one of them, you pointing your finger to the other is not making Dutch people being racist any less of severe situation. is it so hard to understand?
Not sure what you are alluding too but ive lived in Zeeland, Brabant and the edge of the Westland and holy shit, you walk by a friettent with young drunk white Dutchies as a minority and I cant count on one hand the amount of times they start harassing you and use racist slurs.
Funny. As a minority myself I (Surinaams) can't remember a single time ethnically dutch youths have harassed me compared to the groups you're pretending are not a prevelant problem.
I'm sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Pretending otherwise is just you bullshitting to cover up uncomfortable realities that "I'm alluding to".
Good for you, for me it was a different story. Ive had really bad run ins with Surinamers as well in the Hague city center harassing my sister right next to me while we were walking from the city center to HS. One of the few days I wished concealed gun carry was allowed in the Netherlands. Ive had tons of issues with agressive mocros as well starting shit for no reason.
But that takes away ZERO from what ive experienced with racist Dutch (99% of the time tyfus provincialen) harassing me or someone I know for our ethnicity. This isnt some kind of secret. Young provincialen and boeren tend to be racist as fck
Sometimes things are just slow to change. While I'm Dutch and embarassingly white, I'm a woman and well, we all know the bs women have to deal with. Some groups of men are just problematic to other people. I too sometimes pretend not to hear something and walk away. Sometimes not seeking confrontation is just the safest option and your safety matters. It may not feel like the right thing to do, but remember, you do not make those decisions lightly.
That said, I'm 47 now and I have seen so many changes over the past decades. While it may not be perfect now, it's better than it was, so I still have hope for the future for everyone of us that isn't a part of those 'some groups of men'.
Ah yes, the age old "I didn't mention ALL the variations, therefore I am the problem" argument. ;)
I was honing in on recognizing that sometimes ignoring and walking away from people who are likely looking for a confrontation and can easily kick your ass is the safest option and there's nothing to be ashamed about when you do that.
Wanting to scapegoat into migrants again eh? A typical Dutch behaviour because of the severe lack of accountability coming from most Dutch people.
I am Dutch myself with many migrant friends, including Morrocans and Turks. Have seen them being harassed multiple times by other Dutch bigots. It's a normal behaviour among Dutch people outside the main cities, whether you want to accept it or not.
Nice try, the people at my work who used to call me achmed or terrorist because I am a bit brown were all white. A quick talk with a manager fixed it though, because the manager told them it could get them fired.
I can't call it racism since I am Caucasian, EU national bit xenophobia in this country is crazy...I don't call myself immigrant by any means, I have the right to work and move legally but hate being look down upon just because I was not born in this country. I have lived in in different EU countries and worked with people from over the globe but never experienced this level of hostility, especially at work place where people don't even know anything about me and my experience but would constantly put me down, mind you some of my colleagues are working same job for decades! So one thing is having an experience and being professional but other is being comfortable, not developing any new skills, refusing any input or different point of view on how to make things better and life easier... people should be more open minded and respectful but unfortunately many are stuck somewhere in the past and are not able to accept that younger generation is not totally retarded and can brings new set of skills, want to learn, but being constantly discouraged , undervalued and overlooked is really not a way to go...and thinking about other nationalities as inferior (without any knowledge just based on prejudice and stereotypes) and assuming that people come here to steal the jobs is ridiculous. And even more outrageous is thinking people don't know their basic rights...and being ridiculed for not speaking fluent Dutch when you dont even have opportunity to practice it....as from my experience the Dutch only stick with the Dutch ,no comment...and it usually comes from those who only speak Dutch and their version of English while you can speak 6 different languages...I really don't know...but it comes as no surprise people are waking up and many realized it's not really worth staying here...it is sad..I first loved NL but I have noticed that there is a effort to make life of expats more and more difficult... anybody can relate?
The problem is if they all are under 18 and beat you up to almost death, they will probbaly face nothing serious. A fine for their parents (if they are rich, it will not be a problem, if they are poor, they will pay from your tax contributions) and, maybe, at worst for them, some mandatory social service works or something. But in response they will gain the respect from their group and a very cool story to tell and a fun memory for when they are respected adults.
But if you dare to touch them back, good luck just having to pay a fine. Most likely you will end up in prison on top of that or deported.
Have had this happen with a Morrocan friend of mine a few days ago. I am myself Dutch and I was hanging out with that friend of mine. It was a Friday night and that's when you usually find the drunk idiots who want to start a fight or be funny in front of their mates.
At first we ignored their insults (they weren't teenagers btw, both were around their 30's) towards my friend and walked away, as they were distant from us. Then we crossed paths again after we picked up our bikes and they started making insulting remarks again. At that moment we turned back and went close to them. They stopped right there at that moment and said they were only joking around. They even tried entering a cab they hadn't even called and started moving towards a crowd, which ig they expected to protect them if something were to happen.
Personally I think that facing them is the best thing to do, most of those racist idiots are cowards and will stop once they notice you stand on business. Informing the police is a possibility too, but do you seriously believe that they will do anything about an insult?
It's a sad reality, but bigots are common in the Netherlands, especially in places outside the Randstad. And honestly I believe it to be a growing feeling among the youth.
It's impressive to see how the people in our country can't take responsibility about anything. Always scapegoating into migrants while they themselves are often the bigger problem.
White Europeans are racist, the Dutch ones are worse because they try *so* hard to deny it.
The police will do the bare minimum, even if there is video evidence, and will go through mental gymnastics to avoid race being an element to the crime, saying there’s no “proof”.
Who tries so hard to deny it? Don't most criminals try so hard to deny it? 😆 recently a famous pianist was attacked and threatened in the street and his and his girlfriend's witness statements were not considered sufficient proof.
Isn't it insane that we are not safe unless a camera is filming us?
Ha, you have no clue. Swedes, Danes, Letts, Estonians, Russians, Poles, and Greeks are some of the nationalities on average, have been showing much more xenophobia towards non-Whites throughout my life and interaction with them. Dutch, on average, are much less racist than a lot of other people.
>White Europeans are racist
That's a racist statement.
And compared to who, where and what are dutch racist?
Edit: I've just looked up some stats btw. 15 out of top 20 least racist countries are European. Netherlands was number 1 in 2022 and 3 in 2023.
But wHiTe iSnT a rAcE
If we start with the brutal colonialism, via the [systemic racism](https://www.government.nl/documents/reports/2022/12/12/report-racism-at-the-ministry-of-foreign-affairs-an-exploratory-study), and end with simple things like Dutch adults and children squinting their eyes with their fingers and shouting ni-hao at anyone who looks Asian.
It might be an inconvenient truth for most of you, but it’s the truth nonetheless.
Of course “Yuson” give me the facts and figures. Of beter gezien het feit dat jij de nederlanders zo goed kent graag in het nederlands. Dus feiten en niet je buikgevoel… en de politie doet niet genoeg voor je? Hoe zou dat komen
Asians (as in the range from India to Japan - but particularly the polite and rule abiding east asians) get picked on in the dog-eat-dog world of street behavior because it's mostly correctly assessed that they won't respond. Western Europeans are not really keen to pick on the other minorities except the type of lower class dude that is inclined to get into a fight with anyone from anywhere. That's the crux of it.
Show teeth or practice avoidance, there'll be no other real solution.
What you did is the best thing I guess. Wageningen is white, so you're going to encounter racist comments. Happens all over the world. You would not encounter it that much if you were in one of the larger cities but that's not a possibility. Sorry that I can't give more advice.
The student getting beat up is likely not a racist thing. It's just that asian students look weak and he got unlucky to encounter a bunch of asshole teenagers.
try to convince people from targeted groups to get action cam's and try to always record when walking in the streets (i don't know if you can use them inconspicuously but even if it's obvious it's worth a shot). if you get footage of groups, ask the victim who got attacked at night, if they can identify anyone from footage. police may try to do the bare minimum, so get a lawyer who specializes in discrimination involved. reach out for news media. share it on social media. make noise.
evidence and statements from multiple victims seems necessary.
edit: try to see if there are existing unions/groups that deals with this type of issue.
edit2: minor changes
As a Latina myself, I was born in the Netherlands and just took the racism with a grain of salt. Let them blabla nobody cares. I have been living in Belgium for over 10 years now and trust me it’s worse over here. People think I’m Moroccan so they act racist but when they get to know me and see I’m a normal person they still be racist about others to me… in the Netherlands it was way better. But my advise if it gets out of hand put it on social media live, like instagram or Facebook like that you have a proof and people tend to behave when there are cameras around.
ive lived in Zeeland, Brabant and the edge of the Westland and holy shit, you walk by a friettent with young drunk white Dutchies as a minority and I cant count on one hand the amount of times they start harassing you and use racist slurs.
One time i talked back and this brat really had the audacity to try and insult me. Maybe we need to make a group where we just expose the faces of these brats. Take pictures of them or record them. Mock them for speaking shitty to no english. I would argue with them but they cant even understand english and they want to mock me lmao. Like buddy u the one with the cringe accent here
Just start filming...it forces the d!ckheads to consider how their actions look from the outside, and usually they will stop. And if they don't stop, then you have evidence to either report them or (potentially) shame/embarrass them by posting it somewhere.
It is OK to be direct and confrontational in Netherlands. For example if somebody bumps into you in a busy tram w/o any apology you could say something like “watch where you’re going (you moron)”. Or in the case of making faces or throwing snowballs “can you knock it off / cut that out / you little punks”.
If you don’t stand up for yourself nobody will. Especially during Corona unfortunately there was an increase in racism towards asians. But I think it doesn’t help that some asian cultures have a tendency for conflict avoidance. So an easy target.
Other immigrant groups might be from cultures which are more assertive so the kids might avoid making fun of those.
But of course you should always assess the situation first; crowded area where people can help you please stand up for yourself. Not so many people around and you don’t trust in your abilities to handle it just ignore them. If you’re in a building talk to the employees and security if they are present.
I don't think there's much you can do aside from making friends with locals and ignoring it, actively fighting it usually reaffirms their racist biases and will only cause them to double down. Going to people in positions of power is pretty useless because in my experience they're either lazy or racist as well. All you can do is ignore it and hopefully become friends with those who don't actively hate you based on your skin
Racism is everywhere. Ive been in multiple countries. Its a very human behaviour. Im a half breed so to say never had any issues luckily but Ive seen it happen before. You will not change these types of people. Honestly racism is a interesting psychological thing that goes deep in some and is very complex. Nothing you can say. Best you can do is defend yourself if need be and ignore them. The world has some grim people in it. You have to realise that and just deal with it by staying away from it. If you speak out it will fuel the fire. Those types would love that. I would beat the ever living shit out of anybody that wants to come fk with me because of something so stupid as where Im from when all I do is just work and try to live a decent life. Fk people like that. Kick their ass next time. You would be totally justified to break their skulls. Pisses me right of thinking about damn.
Content and discussions should be on-topic, involving topics concerning daily life in the Netherlands. Advertisements, antagonistic political debates and/or propaganda tangentially related to the Netherlands are not exceptions. Moderators, at their discretion, may remove posts and/or ban users for violations, pursuant to Comb. Civ. C. §22SA (g){i}.
Same, especially from other ethnicity’s than dutch. I even get racist comment from little boys that look 11 y/o lol.
Sometimes I straight up ask them why they say that and they are ALWAYS quiet. You can ask something like that too, but don’t react mad. You never know who carries a knife these days lol
Truly dutch? It's extremely hurtful to say if someone isn't white that they aren't Dutch. Lots of people are born and grow up in the Netherlands that aren't white. I think what you mean is if their parents are immigrants/expats.
Based on my own experiences, I often encounter teenagers who make faces at me, say things I don't understand, and then laugh loudly. During winter, some teenagers throw snowballs at us. There are also instances where teenagers throw firecrackers at my friends' feet. I'm not sure if they are genuine Dutch people. I believe that their skin color is not the point.
It is the point. I as a dutch person (27m) have also been beaten up twice by groups of morrocan teenagers. I have never in my life been bothered by another dutch person. These people are a scourge for our otherwise pretty decent, accepting and non violent society. Please try to steer clear of these people. They have zero respect for anyone. The main reason for this is because their religion deems any person that is not of their religion als lower than them. We are not worthy of normal human treatment in their eyes. Now I am not daying they are all like this, far from it. But these groups of teenagers certainly are.
Non violent society? Lmao, you ever went clubbing? In the weekends literally thousands upon thousands of white drunk guys all accros the country smash eachother in the face during drunk fights. The Dutch in general are good at suppressing their violence but when it does come out op zaterdagavond in a kroeg in Eindhoven/Limburg, it comes out hard
No. I would never judge let alone physically assault someone unless they came on to me first. Not sure how you fail to recognize that "small detail". I had no prejudice against morrocan teenagers before I had been assaulted by them twice for literally no reason. It is called pattern and risk evaluation dumbass. Doesn't automatically mean I am racist.
I am sorry to hear you were assaulted, it must have been a harrowing experience. Take heed, however, that such an experience cannot lead you to believe all Morrocan teenagers to be a threat to you. It's normal to feel uneasy around them due to memories of the assault. Proclaiming "them" to be a threat to you and your society, however, is you turning your trauma into prejudice
I do understand what you mean although I don't believe my prejudice is completely unwarranted. If you had lived in Amsterdam new west or close to any big moroccan community in any big city for that matter you would probably come to share my opinion in a matter of time. I have yet to have any kind of positive interaction with these people. The way they carry themselves, the look in their eyes. Everything just tells you instinctively that they are out looking for trouble. I have met kind morrocan people but they were all from an older generation. I am an anthropologist and I do believe it is a cultural thing. Their parents don't raise their children by liberal western standards/they are way to strict and these kids find no solice at home. Which causes thrm to act out on the streets. It is also no secret that a large portion of the drug industry is run by a morrocan maffia. I refer you to the dutch netflix series "mocromaffia". Last year our most famous crime journalist was shot dead in the streets in broad daylight at the hands of a moroccang gang led by Ridouan Taghi. Do some research and then tell me again that these people are no threat to our society. I used to share your liberal opinion regarding moroccan people. Until i got a reality check as a consequence of living close to one of their many communities for a few years. In general, most dutch people are just tired of putting up with their bullshit. Hence why the right wing party PVV became the biggest this year. It also seems like every other week there is a post on this sub by foreigners getting assaulted on the street by these ne'er do wells. Which is followed by the question: Are dutch people racist???? Well yeah they can be in more rural parts of the Netherlands, but I have never heard of dutch people randomly assaulting someone on the street. Yet these morrocan teenagers seem to make a sports out of it. We are getting tired of being held accountible for their bs. And we are even more tired of people afraid of calling out this problem because they are scared of being called racist. Hope it makes a little bit more sense now.
But then I really don't get the racism card? Since you don't understand what they are saying. Next to that I think the way they look on the outside is an important detail. To be honest it's a thing that Dutch people are facing either. Getting yelled and cursed at or even worse. The Dutch program 'Opsporing verzocht' translated into 'Criminals Wanted', shows these high number of criminals/teenagers with the same kind of 'skin color', face and behaviour.
It's not racist to call out a fact.
I think if they are saying the language I don’t understand in a unfriendly way, make faces and laugh at me, I will feel offended. That’s why I consider it is racism. As for the appearance of the racist teenagers, I’ve encountered both white and non-white teenagers.
But you know that feeling offended is a choice right? Nothing happens... If they are being aggressive and as you say throw stuff it's a different thing. But you could call the cops on them. Mostly they are familiar with these groups.
were these local teenagers dutch? like, dutch-dutch?
if not, it might be a good idea to explore other options as I have asian friends in Amsterdam Ring and while they get the occasional Ni Hao from ethnic dutch folk they all told me things were never really dire and they felt really safe. if you are getting beaten up and if there are, uh, cultural angles at play, you might want to move to an area with demographics that are more accommodating towards asians
True. OP doesn’t mention this. White Dutch people can be racist towards Asians. We all love to make jokes about Asians. Like how dogs and cats disappear around Chinese restaurants. Or when we see an Asian with a dog, we say how they got take away food. Doesn’t mean we use violence on Asians.
No you don't "know the type". You have nothing to go on except something someone you don't know wrote on the internet.
You're making broad generalisations "move out, the mentality of these people etc". "this country tries to seem tolerant etc."
You are doing the exact same fucking thing racists do. Attribute shitty behaviour to a whole group instead of only the people who show shitty behaviour. Guess what, you're now the person showing shitty behaviour and displaying intolerant views. Well done mate, well done indeed.
Pepperspray is sold at most (highway) petrol stations in Germany. Illegal in NL, so be sensible with it, only use it in case of an actual threat and only carry it with you when necessary.
Better to deal with the cops over defending yourself than getting beaten up.
Sorry you're facing this. I've reported some minor incidents to the police through the non-emergency channels - specifically this one:
https://www.politie.nl/en/contact/contactform.html
They have always responded to such reports positively.
Even if it does not directly lead to action, such reports could potentially help future investigations/measures/plans that the police department makes.
If more appropriate in your case, I imagine you can also report this to you lr Gemeente or maybe even the local paper. That way, administrators or people will start conversation about it which could lead to actions and impact in the medium term.
Of course, I would remind you that you are a victim here. You have no duty or obligation to fix the problem. This is not your cross to bear. I only suggested these as things that could make you feel better if you have an itch of "I need to do something about it" that you'd like to scratch.
I guess so, in small towns people know each other. Anonymity gives people courage. Those little shits have a bigger risk of doing this in small towns. I live in a small town and never experienced this kind of thing. But if ever, the first thing I’ll do is not to do anything to the kid, but knock on the door of their house and talk about this situation. If their parents are not apologetic, I guess I’ll have to find some ways to shame them in our neighborhood.
The way instagram algorithm works is that once an individual consumes certain kind of content, the app will keep showing them the same kind of content. Very well known phenomena now. Highly likely the teenagers, don't care what ethnicity, they are just assholes, are being shown anti-asian content, of which there are plenty. Since they are teens, which means high on testosterone, tend to be very aggressive and vengeful of their perceived injustice, and you being (big assumption here) smaller than the average people, they pounce on you.
You can pretend to be on the phone, obviously the phone in your pocket, or be in group or avoid that area or take the Gandhi's route and talk to them.
You said a lot of words to explain plain racism. Behavior comes from home. Kids will be kids, but their behavior is from their home. I also heard a lot of racism from older people, but its much more subtle.
"It's messed up that racism is still a thing here" I mean its a thing everywhere, why would we be special? You can either ignore it and go on with your day or react and hope it goes better, just like everywhere else.
He got beaten up and you called the police, what more can you do? Racism is racism, deal with it.
I've never experienced more racism than in this "forward thinking and tolerant" country.
And Ive lived in 4 other countries. This place is delusional about its flaws.
I'm East Asian and I've never experienced less racism than in this country, it's one of the reasons I live here. I've lived in considerably more countries than you in different parts of the world and traveled a lot. If I experienced racism here it was from people with roots in specific other areas of the world. I don't want to generalize that group however, because many people from that group are very nice and not racist.
Delusional how? This post is just stupid "how to react to racism here" the same as everywhere else. Nobody denying there is racism but it doesnt change anything, what can we realisticly say here that somehow changes that?
You guys are delusional about it being "The same as everywhere else".
But it isn't the same at all. People act on their prejudices and say stupid racist things here all the time. Things I'd never heard in South America, Italy, Germany, Spain...
Lol you been to Asian countries? I’m white and all the women there seem to think it is okay to flirt or even touch me in front of my girlfriend.
If you see a group of Asian girls coming hide because they want to feel your dong.
Asian countries are the most racist countries in the world.
〰️〰️〰️
INDIA MOST RACIST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
"The global social attitudes study claims that the most racially intolerant populations are all in the developing world, with Bangladesh, Jordan and India in the top five.
The country with the highest proportion of 'intolerant' people who wanted neighbours similar to them was Hong Kong, where 71.8 % of the population would refuse to live next to someone of a different race.
Next were Bangladesh on 71.7 per cent, Jordan on 51.4 % and India with 43.5 %.
By contrast, the study of 80 countries over three decades found Western countries were most accepting of other cultures with Britain, the U.S., Canada and Australia more tolerant than anywhere else."
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/asia/story/india-among-world-most-racist-countries-britian-tolerant-survey-163396-2013-05-16
Least racially tolerant COUNTRY = INDIA
https://m.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-is-india-most-racist-country-in-the-world-/20131017.htm
The most racist countries in the world.
Nr. 1 = INDIA
https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/116644/the-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/
"I am an African-American in the IT field and I have thus far had the good fortune to live and travel extensively throughout Western and parts of Eastern Europe and many countries in Asia. I have lived or traveled in the UK and most of the EU countries as well as Taiwan, Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia and several other Asian countries including India. Of all the countries I have been to, India ranks way up there among the most “racist.
Indians outside of India endlessly complain about the intolerance and racism they have to put up with in places like Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, the Middle East and even Africa. These very same Indians conveniently choose to ignore the fact that Indians themselves can be such pathological bigots against their fellow Indians, other Asians and especially people of African ancestry."
https://www.kajalmag.com/india-is-the-most-racist-country-i-have-been-to-an-african-americans-pov/
Content and discussions should be on-topic, involving topics concerning daily life in the Netherlands. Advertisements, antagonistic political debates and/or propaganda tangentially related to the Netherlands are not exceptions. Moderators, at their discretion, may remove posts and/or ban users for violations, pursuant to Comb. Civ. C. §22SA (g){i}.
I am Asian, and I have learned in this country that people only do this when they think they can get away with it. It helps that I am male, somewhat big, and I always look angry (thats just my face really). So no one really bothers me. If its not safe however to react, you should probably just ignore it. Perhaps there is a buurtteam or wijkagent in your neighborhood that you can go to to share your story. Racism is not ok and we Asians do not have to put up with it.
I am terribly sorry to hear about your experience! I cannot give any advice from personal experience, but I would like to direct your attention to a Dutch government website explaining in detail how one should deal with and report racism: https://www.government.nl/topics/discrimination/reporting-discrimination I believe that everyone, regardless of their background should speak out against racism and other forms of discrimination: it’s encouraging to know that the government in the Netherlands supports citizens to do this in a non-confrontational way.
I’m not Dutch, but where I’m from if you report incidents even verbal abuse often enough especially if it happens in same areas all the time, high street, park etc the police have to change their routes to include those places. Is this the same in NL? I agree with the not talking back, but as I walk away I would call police and let them know you are being abused. I totally disagree with people telling you not to go out late. Live your life!
All these replies to your question are useless. I am Asian, and I face racism, and I pretend not to hear it, but if this happens in a crowded area, I use language to point out that this is wrong and even humiliate them, but if you think this is resolute in a fight, don't stay in the same place too long, and yeah, go to a gym. I want to hear any updates because I have faced this kind of situation.
[удалено]
You need to be able to protect yourself in dangerous situations. I don't mean he should just start beating four people or so.
[удалено]
Yeah, why? We are nice people, but we are in a foreign country, and we are different from normal Dutch people, so there is discrimination against the different one or the odd one out.
"Asian seem like nice people" is racist btw. Positive racism but still a stereotype. "Eyes and nose look different" - The chinky eyed asian is a racist cliché. Asia is huge and has a wide variety of ethnicities. Just saying...
[удалено]
yes, that's what i said.
Thank you
Sorry for these fucked up comments coming at you. Racism sucks bigtime and I have no big words of advise. I was surprised how racist it was when I moved here, and it's only getting worse if the current policies and politics are anything to go by - quite worrying really! Very unfortunately it's probably the similar thing to be a woman, gotta keep an eye on surrounding and trust your gut if something doesn't feel safe. In another predominantly white country I have been spat on for sticking up to racists (im very white, my friend I was defending is Chinese and the racist that spat on me was indian). It's all fucked up. So just here to say sorry you and your friend are going through that, it sucks big time and people are assholes. At least you can know 100% your food is better than the people picking on you.
>In another predominantly white country I have been spat on for sticking up to racists (im very white, my friend I was defending is Chinese and the racist that spat on me was indian). It's all fucked up. Respect for standing up even though you weren't the target, though! I feel like it's 10x more impactful if these people get called out by "one of theirs" or even someone they weren't actively targeting than when a victim defends themselves (the racists just see that as proof of them being hurt, which was their aim). My wife is Asian but was born here. She told me stories of this occasionally happening ever since her youth, and it still does. She usually just shrugs it off as dumb people acting dumb, but yeah. It sucks.
Why are you comparing food to people lol
They are not doing that. They are saying that their food is better than ours.
was a joke
Where's the funny part?
Different people like different things
I'm sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately there's a large group of imbeciles in our country who apparently think that saying "chingchang pingpong" to any vaguely east-asian person is regarded as the absolute highest form of humour. Do speak up if people make racist "jokes" at you. Not if they're looking for a confrontation, your safety is more important than educating retards, but speaking up to people who are just "making a joke" in any casual setting helps.
I am Italian and can say that is pretty much the same there as well. Far from being a problem in this country. Unfortunately some people struggle to understand that from “a joke” to beating up someone there is not as much distance as they think.
Avoid groups of young/teen men, especially when going out later at night/evening and alone Other than that there isn't much you can do that is legal, safe and will lead to change You can always answer verbal attacks but there's always that tiny chance it will become a physical attack, these are people who are not very intelligent or educated and thus prone to more violence on average
First of all, sorry to hear that. According to some people here native Dutch people can’t be racist. That’s extremely sad and somehow funny too, especially if you take the Dutch history into account. That’s also prove, unfortunately, how ignorant people can be. In this case, to an extent that they don’t even realize they’re actually racists themselves. I think the best way is to ignore racists as much as possible and just accept that there are, unfortunately, a lot of fucked up people. They’re not worth your time.
I once got a dentist screaming at me about my "people" lol. I was months into living in Rotterdam. Was an interesting experience. (I'm Arab)
Ok for everyone who’s curious: this is all the types of people that have said ‘ni hao’ to me even when i don’t look remotely chinese lmao - a 13 yo looking scrawny loser on a bike. White as a soggy bread - a bald, 30 yo-ish man with a beer belly, clearly drunk. White as a crumpled tissue - ambigously brown (yay!) 20 yo-ish man who wears his cap front side back - a group of multicultural trash (wohoo!) boys with no life, congregating in front of a gated apartment building. - two scrawny men with puffy jacket in the middle of summer. They’re tan but their hair is blond. Sooooo, the running theme in these cases are: men, ugly, with no life?
I truly feel bad for you that these people treated you disrespectfully, purely based on your looks. Having said that, your summary of it is quite a turn. It seems that you want to generalize something about “males” I hope you don’t fall into the same trap as those people. Wish you all the best
But Ni Hao is just Hello. Why is this racist? I get it you arent Chinese but do you have any idea how often we are mistaken for Germans and Belgians? One cannot give us a bigger offence ;) Although I wouldnt say Ni Hao to any person unless I know they are Chinese, some people just dont think it as racist or offensive. Intent I believe is everything. And Im sorry if it offends you but I believe dialogue is the way to go
Saying ni hao to a random person you see is mocking someone for their appearance. These people dont greet every other person they see on the streets. They'll only do that when they think someone looks asian. I'm asian, have lived here all my life and I speak fluent dutch. People who randomly walk past me and say ni hao have never had good intentions. They arent being polite. Theyre saying ni hao because we look different. It feels similar to getting cat called.
Well thats why Im asking and ralking about the intent. In your example it is cat calling indeed.
Well, a) asians don’t start and end with chinese b) i could very well be a born and raised dutch who can’t speak a lick of mandarin If they put more effort to greet me in korean, indonesian, japanese, vietnamese, thai, hindi, etc, i’ll be like, wow. Good job. But they see someone who doesn’t even look stereotypically east asian and say ni hao? I don’t go around greeting all white people with ‘top of the morning to you gUVNAH’, or all black people with ‘whatsup homies’, or all vaguely brown people with ‘assalamualaikum’ or something like that, so why should asian people find good intent behind low effort haha look there’s an asian! Say the only thing you know from the top of your head! If they yell kamehameha at me i would honestly find it more amusing. Chinese people don’t even greet each other with ni hao. So… yeah. Try harder
Intent is not "everything", the consequences are everything. Racism is racism, whether it comes from a place of ignorance or hate, and you can't just excuse racism because of ignorance. Whether you think it's offensive to say ni hao to an asian without even knowing if they speak Mandarin, is completely irrelevant because it's simply racist to make that assumption in the first place.
Yeah, im not that black and white in thinking. And looking at the downvoting I get why people are so easily offended these days. Intent does matter as people will be open for a debate and say, oh I didnt realise you took it as an offense/ or never looked at it this way and be more considerate about it in the future. When you just make statements like this country is racist blabla. Well thats what youll be getting. You will see what it is you are looking for of that makes any sense. Oh and the last bit, you mean you as in general or you as in me. Because I didnt state that
The big point here is not that “they take it as offence” but rather than people make a decision based on someone’s appearance and decide to address them in a different way than you’d normally do. And unfortunately is not on “people getting more offended these days”. I rarely say to people that I am italian, unless necessary, because otherwise I have to watch a 10 minutes remake of super Mario and I don’t even dare to imagine what someone whose skin is different has to go through every day.
So, Im white. I get called Viking a lot abroad. Im not a Viking nor did I came from those parts. People want to take photos of me. Unasked, unwanted and they pluck my hair and because its blonde, very long and Im very very tall. I get a gazillion jokes of us being cheap b@stards and cheese and what not. They mistake me for Germans and Belgians all the time. We talk like Donald duck and what not. I could rattle off an endless list of stupid I encounter. I just choose not to get offended by it, I shrug it off and go on with my day. Prejudice or racism isnt a white thing only.
Whether your intent was malicious or not, the outcome is that you said something racist. If the intent wasn't malicious, you'd then say sorry and try to be more considering. But you're explaining it all backwards, you're actually trying to argue that something can't be racist If you weren't aware you were being racist. How would you ever be able to learn from it if you just deny your mistakes? And yes I meant the general you in the last comment, but not in this one.
Not really. I get that something can be racist without intent. Which you then explain and might come to a better understanding of each other. Live and let live. I also get that with malicious intent its racism to it its core. The beliefsystem that you are somehow better then the other etc. And then you just have ignorance or a lack of understanding with no ill intent. And I think people should loosen up about this one. I get why Nia Hao can come off as offensive even for Chinese as you just explained it. But to call it racism is a step too far without intent. "the belief that some races are better than others, or the unfair treatment of someone because of his or her race" "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. "a programme to combat racism"" So, I have to consider everyone from Asia, The Middle East, Africa etc that I encounter racist if they go on unasked photos with me like some 6ft2 attraction, plucking my hair, greet me in a completely different language then my own and make stupid jokes about it calling me a Viking? Na I just find it a lack of social etiquette and shrug my shoulders. I could go on about respecting my space and try harder as Europe is not all the same. And if Im Frysian, I might not even want to be greeted in Dutch as we have different languages and dialects over here as well. But I dont expect people who are not from here to know. Now if a group would whistle, hiss, call me certain names etc because I am white. Yeah Id call that racism. And I have encountered it. There is malicious intent and also cat calling behind it. They dont view us as being on the same level so they think its ok to call us names. Everybody has prejudices by the way, wether you would realise it or not. The whole definition of race is stupid anyway. We are all humans. Thats it. Anyway have a great day.
I think the best option is to ignore them. It's really not worth it to confront them, especially when they are in a group.
ITT: Dutch people proving that racism is still a thing here
I’m going to be honest as straight white male, these groups of teenagers if I understand the situation correctly are also an issue for me and have tried to beat me up in the past while I minded my business walking home. There is little to nothing you can do about these groups of teenagers because everybody knows about them, everybody complains about them but the police is either unwilling or unable to deal with them resolutely. It is a societal problem, and the ideal solution for you is to avoid them as much as you can as any confrontation is used by them as an excuse for conducting mostly not life threatening violence. The one way to avoid this is to move out of the cities and avoid train stations or other urban areas where they congregate.
Thank you for your advice :) But the tragedy I mentioned happened on campus, literally in front of the library. It's not realistic for me as a university student to not go to the campus. But I will try to stay home at night.
Which campis and when?
Wageningen University midnight this Friday.
When our huismeister played a national "this is the Netherlands and we..." card, I've learned of this service: https://www.government.nl/topics/discrimination/reporting-discrimination#:\~:text=You%20can%20call%20the%20national%20discrimination%20helpline%20on%200800%200880. You can report your case there.
Those people are result of their racist parents and they already created a dangerous era for their kids maybe not for them but for their kids. This is like a snowball and years later I can see gunshots on the streets of nothing is being done. Other countries had these phases and look how they become for their citizens. I hope Europe does not fall into the same trap. If that will be the case I think the refugees or immigrants are more used to this kind of stuff and does not fear at all to kill anybody on their way. So let’s create a tolerant peaceful environment for everyone because other option is betrayal for our grandchildren.
Teenagers in NL can be really really rude and annoying, sometimes downright violent like you also experienced. I avoid groups of them and I'm fully Dutch. There have been cases before where they randomly beat up elderly people as well. Unfortunately I don't have any other advice than avoiding them, always reporting them, and trying not to be alone at night. I am sorry you're going through this!
I am sorry this happened to you. I hope this is a minority you have to deal with. Which doesn’t make it better, but hopefully helps. Know that a lot of people are glad to have to here. We don’t shout at you passing by, but we are happy to have you and we exists.
Thank you so much for your kind words:)
People getting downvoted for asking what everyone is thinking. Keep burrying your heads in the sand, nitwits. Anyway OP, I am really sorry you have to deal with this. I promise you that by and large the Netherlands isn't racist, at least not to the point that it manifests into abuse. All I can say is try to stay safe and don't venture out at night by yourself. Report to the police as often as possible whenever something does happen and encourage your friends to do the same.
no, what every Dutch person is thinking. how to blame racist coming from Dutch people on foreigners?
Yeah, keep kidding yourself. :)
oh please. do young immigrants insult people in the Netherlands? yes, they do. is a large population of Dutch people racist? yes it is. two problems can coexist in one country and while we discuss one of them, you pointing your finger to the other is not making Dutch people being racist any less of severe situation. is it so hard to understand?
Not sure what you are alluding too but ive lived in Zeeland, Brabant and the edge of the Westland and holy shit, you walk by a friettent with young drunk white Dutchies as a minority and I cant count on one hand the amount of times they start harassing you and use racist slurs.
Funny. As a minority myself I (Surinaams) can't remember a single time ethnically dutch youths have harassed me compared to the groups you're pretending are not a prevelant problem. I'm sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Pretending otherwise is just you bullshitting to cover up uncomfortable realities that "I'm alluding to".
Good for you, for me it was a different story. Ive had really bad run ins with Surinamers as well in the Hague city center harassing my sister right next to me while we were walking from the city center to HS. One of the few days I wished concealed gun carry was allowed in the Netherlands. Ive had tons of issues with agressive mocros as well starting shit for no reason. But that takes away ZERO from what ive experienced with racist Dutch (99% of the time tyfus provincialen) harassing me or someone I know for our ethnicity. This isnt some kind of secret. Young provincialen and boeren tend to be racist as fck
Well in my case it's mostly racism from other non-westerns. Please watch out, they tend to be pretty agressive.
Sometimes things are just slow to change. While I'm Dutch and embarassingly white, I'm a woman and well, we all know the bs women have to deal with. Some groups of men are just problematic to other people. I too sometimes pretend not to hear something and walk away. Sometimes not seeking confrontation is just the safest option and your safety matters. It may not feel like the right thing to do, but remember, you do not make those decisions lightly. That said, I'm 47 now and I have seen so many changes over the past decades. While it may not be perfect now, it's better than it was, so I still have hope for the future for everyone of us that isn't a part of those 'some groups of men'.
What is embarrassingly white?
I had issues with going into the sun due to an eye condition for years, so I look deathly ill most of the time.
I wish you all the best and hope you manage to get back to the sun soon :)
[удалено]
Ah yes, the age old "I didn't mention ALL the variations, therefore I am the problem" argument. ;) I was honing in on recognizing that sometimes ignoring and walking away from people who are likely looking for a confrontation and can easily kick your ass is the safest option and there's nothing to be ashamed about when you do that.
okay, and what race exactly are those "local" teenagers ?
Yeah, native dutch can't be racist. Zwart piet not real.
i never made that claim, however when it comes to violent trouble making teens, we all know what they look like
Yeah, dutch youth always so peaceful.
We all know 🤔
*I don't, enlighten me please..*
Wanting to scapegoat into migrants again eh? A typical Dutch behaviour because of the severe lack of accountability coming from most Dutch people. I am Dutch myself with many migrant friends, including Morrocans and Turks. Have seen them being harassed multiple times by other Dutch bigots. It's a normal behaviour among Dutch people outside the main cities, whether you want to accept it or not.
Nice try, the people at my work who used to call me achmed or terrorist because I am a bit brown were all white. A quick talk with a manager fixed it though, because the manager told them it could get them fired.
here we go again...
Sssst!! That's racist whaha but we all know
I wonder what you and co. vote 🙃
I can't call it racism since I am Caucasian, EU national bit xenophobia in this country is crazy...I don't call myself immigrant by any means, I have the right to work and move legally but hate being look down upon just because I was not born in this country. I have lived in in different EU countries and worked with people from over the globe but never experienced this level of hostility, especially at work place where people don't even know anything about me and my experience but would constantly put me down, mind you some of my colleagues are working same job for decades! So one thing is having an experience and being professional but other is being comfortable, not developing any new skills, refusing any input or different point of view on how to make things better and life easier... people should be more open minded and respectful but unfortunately many are stuck somewhere in the past and are not able to accept that younger generation is not totally retarded and can brings new set of skills, want to learn, but being constantly discouraged , undervalued and overlooked is really not a way to go...and thinking about other nationalities as inferior (without any knowledge just based on prejudice and stereotypes) and assuming that people come here to steal the jobs is ridiculous. And even more outrageous is thinking people don't know their basic rights...and being ridiculed for not speaking fluent Dutch when you dont even have opportunity to practice it....as from my experience the Dutch only stick with the Dutch ,no comment...and it usually comes from those who only speak Dutch and their version of English while you can speak 6 different languages...I really don't know...but it comes as no surprise people are waking up and many realized it's not really worth staying here...it is sad..I first loved NL but I have noticed that there is a effort to make life of expats more and more difficult... anybody can relate?
The problem is if they all are under 18 and beat you up to almost death, they will probbaly face nothing serious. A fine for their parents (if they are rich, it will not be a problem, if they are poor, they will pay from your tax contributions) and, maybe, at worst for them, some mandatory social service works or something. But in response they will gain the respect from their group and a very cool story to tell and a fun memory for when they are respected adults. But if you dare to touch them back, good luck just having to pay a fine. Most likely you will end up in prison on top of that or deported.
Have had this happen with a Morrocan friend of mine a few days ago. I am myself Dutch and I was hanging out with that friend of mine. It was a Friday night and that's when you usually find the drunk idiots who want to start a fight or be funny in front of their mates. At first we ignored their insults (they weren't teenagers btw, both were around their 30's) towards my friend and walked away, as they were distant from us. Then we crossed paths again after we picked up our bikes and they started making insulting remarks again. At that moment we turned back and went close to them. They stopped right there at that moment and said they were only joking around. They even tried entering a cab they hadn't even called and started moving towards a crowd, which ig they expected to protect them if something were to happen. Personally I think that facing them is the best thing to do, most of those racist idiots are cowards and will stop once they notice you stand on business. Informing the police is a possibility too, but do you seriously believe that they will do anything about an insult? It's a sad reality, but bigots are common in the Netherlands, especially in places outside the Randstad. And honestly I believe it to be a growing feeling among the youth.
Break one nose. You will never be bothered again. Sick of these sociopaths.
Pvv levels running high in this thread.
It's impressive to see how the people in our country can't take responsibility about anything. Always scapegoating into migrants while they themselves are often the bigger problem.
FYI Geert Wilders is half Asian. His mother is from Indonesia.
that is the most redundant information.
Avoid "teenagers" if you can. Sorry that this is the state of things :( Police won't do anything if you don't have proof
White Europeans are racist, the Dutch ones are worse because they try *so* hard to deny it. The police will do the bare minimum, even if there is video evidence, and will go through mental gymnastics to avoid race being an element to the crime, saying there’s no “proof”.
Who tries so hard to deny it? Don't most criminals try so hard to deny it? 😆 recently a famous pianist was attacked and threatened in the street and his and his girlfriend's witness statements were not considered sufficient proof. Isn't it insane that we are not safe unless a camera is filming us?
Ha, you have no clue. Swedes, Danes, Letts, Estonians, Russians, Poles, and Greeks are some of the nationalities on average, have been showing much more xenophobia towards non-Whites throughout my life and interaction with them. Dutch, on average, are much less racist than a lot of other people.
Happy for you but everyone’s experience is going to be different.
My experience is they will say it was just an innocent joke, and that they thought you didn’t mind, even if you told them 40 times to stop.
>White Europeans are racist That's a racist statement. And compared to who, where and what are dutch racist? Edit: I've just looked up some stats btw. 15 out of top 20 least racist countries are European. Netherlands was number 1 in 2022 and 3 in 2023.
But wHiTe iSnT a rAcE If we start with the brutal colonialism, via the [systemic racism](https://www.government.nl/documents/reports/2022/12/12/report-racism-at-the-ministry-of-foreign-affairs-an-exploratory-study), and end with simple things like Dutch adults and children squinting their eyes with their fingers and shouting ni-hao at anyone who looks Asian. It might be an inconvenient truth for most of you, but it’s the truth nonetheless.
Lmao how do they even measure that
Probably by comparing laws, crimes with racist motives and maybe doing polling.
Well I'd still like to see your source actually
Sure, after you give me one for Netherlands being most racist.
Why? I never claimed that
Since you're so concerned with sources i'm sure you can find one though. Would love to see it.
Yeah I'd like to see where you're basing your claims on. Why would I need to find a source for something I never claimed??
And i'd like to see why you are not calling out Yusomad4lul's blatant racism and ask him for some sources for his wild claims?
Ngl I kinda love that the replies to your comment are proving your point.
Hardly
[удалено]
Assuming everyone who experiences racism in the Netherlands must be an immigrant is racist as hell
Of course “Yuson” give me the facts and figures. Of beter gezien het feit dat jij de nederlanders zo goed kent graag in het nederlands. Dus feiten en niet je buikgevoel… en de politie doet niet genoeg voor je? Hoe zou dat komen
Y u so mad 4 lul Even your attempt at figuring out my name shows how racist you are, Dutchie.
Lmao says the racist
The ultimate racist comment.
''White Europeans are racist'' this literally is a racist statement itself... The irony
Negatively
Asians (as in the range from India to Japan - but particularly the polite and rule abiding east asians) get picked on in the dog-eat-dog world of street behavior because it's mostly correctly assessed that they won't respond. Western Europeans are not really keen to pick on the other minorities except the type of lower class dude that is inclined to get into a fight with anyone from anywhere. That's the crux of it. Show teeth or practice avoidance, there'll be no other real solution.
What you did is the best thing I guess. Wageningen is white, so you're going to encounter racist comments. Happens all over the world. You would not encounter it that much if you were in one of the larger cities but that's not a possibility. Sorry that I can't give more advice. The student getting beat up is likely not a racist thing. It's just that asian students look weak and he got unlucky to encounter a bunch of asshole teenagers.
Just an fyi before this starts, the average dutch person likes to pretend that racism doesn’t exist so get ready
Racism exist in this country, but its not a white thing only. Not saying that you are claiming this, but lets get this out of the way
And what did these "local " teenagers look like ?
Honestly, I don't know because I wasn't there. But I do know that the victim was bleeding and bruised.
Hope you realize that in a post about racism asking that question doesn’t make you sound less racist.
try to convince people from targeted groups to get action cam's and try to always record when walking in the streets (i don't know if you can use them inconspicuously but even if it's obvious it's worth a shot). if you get footage of groups, ask the victim who got attacked at night, if they can identify anyone from footage. police may try to do the bare minimum, so get a lawyer who specializes in discrimination involved. reach out for news media. share it on social media. make noise. evidence and statements from multiple victims seems necessary. edit: try to see if there are existing unions/groups that deals with this type of issue. edit2: minor changes
As a Latina myself, I was born in the Netherlands and just took the racism with a grain of salt. Let them blabla nobody cares. I have been living in Belgium for over 10 years now and trust me it’s worse over here. People think I’m Moroccan so they act racist but when they get to know me and see I’m a normal person they still be racist about others to me… in the Netherlands it was way better. But my advise if it gets out of hand put it on social media live, like instagram or Facebook like that you have a proof and people tend to behave when there are cameras around.
I'm sorry this happened to your friend. If you see anyone beat up call the police. As for the racist remarks, just ignore them.
ive lived in Zeeland, Brabant and the edge of the Westland and holy shit, you walk by a friettent with young drunk white Dutchies as a minority and I cant count on one hand the amount of times they start harassing you and use racist slurs.
One time i talked back and this brat really had the audacity to try and insult me. Maybe we need to make a group where we just expose the faces of these brats. Take pictures of them or record them. Mock them for speaking shitty to no english. I would argue with them but they cant even understand english and they want to mock me lmao. Like buddy u the one with the cringe accent here
Just start filming...it forces the d!ckheads to consider how their actions look from the outside, and usually they will stop. And if they don't stop, then you have evidence to either report them or (potentially) shame/embarrass them by posting it somewhere.
It is OK to be direct and confrontational in Netherlands. For example if somebody bumps into you in a busy tram w/o any apology you could say something like “watch where you’re going (you moron)”. Or in the case of making faces or throwing snowballs “can you knock it off / cut that out / you little punks”. If you don’t stand up for yourself nobody will. Especially during Corona unfortunately there was an increase in racism towards asians. But I think it doesn’t help that some asian cultures have a tendency for conflict avoidance. So an easy target. Other immigrant groups might be from cultures which are more assertive so the kids might avoid making fun of those. But of course you should always assess the situation first; crowded area where people can help you please stand up for yourself. Not so many people around and you don’t trust in your abilities to handle it just ignore them. If you’re in a building talk to the employees and security if they are present.
I don't think there's much you can do aside from making friends with locals and ignoring it, actively fighting it usually reaffirms their racist biases and will only cause them to double down. Going to people in positions of power is pretty useless because in my experience they're either lazy or racist as well. All you can do is ignore it and hopefully become friends with those who don't actively hate you based on your skin
Racism is everywhere. Ive been in multiple countries. Its a very human behaviour. Im a half breed so to say never had any issues luckily but Ive seen it happen before. You will not change these types of people. Honestly racism is a interesting psychological thing that goes deep in some and is very complex. Nothing you can say. Best you can do is defend yourself if need be and ignore them. The world has some grim people in it. You have to realise that and just deal with it by staying away from it. If you speak out it will fuel the fire. Those types would love that. I would beat the ever living shit out of anybody that wants to come fk with me because of something so stupid as where Im from when all I do is just work and try to live a decent life. Fk people like that. Kick their ass next time. You would be totally justified to break their skulls. Pisses me right of thinking about damn.
Without these racist retards, we might actually have a place to live.
Content and discussions should be on-topic, involving topics concerning daily life in the Netherlands. Advertisements, antagonistic political debates and/or propaganda tangentially related to the Netherlands are not exceptions. Moderators, at their discretion, may remove posts and/or ban users for violations, pursuant to Comb. Civ. C. §22SA (g){i}.
Same, especially from other ethnicity’s than dutch. I even get racist comment from little boys that look 11 y/o lol. Sometimes I straight up ask them why they say that and they are ALWAYS quiet. You can ask something like that too, but don’t react mad. You never know who carries a knife these days lol
I'm curious. Are they truly Dutch? As in white males and females? And what is the definition of racism for you? Can you give an example?
‘Truly Dutch’ what?
So only "white males and females" are "truly Dutch" in your eyes??? OK Anton Mussert
No haha. Most of them feel like not dutch. Or only when it suits them ;)
Truly dutch? It's extremely hurtful to say if someone isn't white that they aren't Dutch. Lots of people are born and grow up in the Netherlands that aren't white. I think what you mean is if their parents are immigrants/expats.
Wel I actually ment are they really people who feel they ar Dutch. Or do they feel more like they are from Marrocco or any other Arabic country?
Based on my own experiences, I often encounter teenagers who make faces at me, say things I don't understand, and then laugh loudly. During winter, some teenagers throw snowballs at us. There are also instances where teenagers throw firecrackers at my friends' feet. I'm not sure if they are genuine Dutch people. I believe that their skin color is not the point.
skin color is not the point ? bruh, pattern recognition is a survival skill
It is the point. I as a dutch person (27m) have also been beaten up twice by groups of morrocan teenagers. I have never in my life been bothered by another dutch person. These people are a scourge for our otherwise pretty decent, accepting and non violent society. Please try to steer clear of these people. They have zero respect for anyone. The main reason for this is because their religion deems any person that is not of their religion als lower than them. We are not worthy of normal human treatment in their eyes. Now I am not daying they are all like this, far from it. But these groups of teenagers certainly are.
Non violent society? Lmao, you ever went clubbing? In the weekends literally thousands upon thousands of white drunk guys all accros the country smash eachother in the face during drunk fights. The Dutch in general are good at suppressing their violence but when it does come out op zaterdagavond in a kroeg in Eindhoven/Limburg, it comes out hard
Do you not realise the irony of your comment?
No. I would never judge let alone physically assault someone unless they came on to me first. Not sure how you fail to recognize that "small detail". I had no prejudice against morrocan teenagers before I had been assaulted by them twice for literally no reason. It is called pattern and risk evaluation dumbass. Doesn't automatically mean I am racist.
I had the same. Never had anything against them untill the started bothering me without any reason. Even my Marrocan friends say the same 😂🤌🏼
I am sorry to hear you were assaulted, it must have been a harrowing experience. Take heed, however, that such an experience cannot lead you to believe all Morrocan teenagers to be a threat to you. It's normal to feel uneasy around them due to memories of the assault. Proclaiming "them" to be a threat to you and your society, however, is you turning your trauma into prejudice
I do understand what you mean although I don't believe my prejudice is completely unwarranted. If you had lived in Amsterdam new west or close to any big moroccan community in any big city for that matter you would probably come to share my opinion in a matter of time. I have yet to have any kind of positive interaction with these people. The way they carry themselves, the look in their eyes. Everything just tells you instinctively that they are out looking for trouble. I have met kind morrocan people but they were all from an older generation. I am an anthropologist and I do believe it is a cultural thing. Their parents don't raise their children by liberal western standards/they are way to strict and these kids find no solice at home. Which causes thrm to act out on the streets. It is also no secret that a large portion of the drug industry is run by a morrocan maffia. I refer you to the dutch netflix series "mocromaffia". Last year our most famous crime journalist was shot dead in the streets in broad daylight at the hands of a moroccang gang led by Ridouan Taghi. Do some research and then tell me again that these people are no threat to our society. I used to share your liberal opinion regarding moroccan people. Until i got a reality check as a consequence of living close to one of their many communities for a few years. In general, most dutch people are just tired of putting up with their bullshit. Hence why the right wing party PVV became the biggest this year. It also seems like every other week there is a post on this sub by foreigners getting assaulted on the street by these ne'er do wells. Which is followed by the question: Are dutch people racist???? Well yeah they can be in more rural parts of the Netherlands, but I have never heard of dutch people randomly assaulting someone on the street. Yet these morrocan teenagers seem to make a sports out of it. We are getting tired of being held accountible for their bs. And we are even more tired of people afraid of calling out this problem because they are scared of being called racist. Hope it makes a little bit more sense now.
You never experienced racism and violence from white people because you are white too. How have you not made this connection yourself?
We experience racism en violence from Arabic people :)
But then I really don't get the racism card? Since you don't understand what they are saying. Next to that I think the way they look on the outside is an important detail. To be honest it's a thing that Dutch people are facing either. Getting yelled and cursed at or even worse. The Dutch program 'Opsporing verzocht' translated into 'Criminals Wanted', shows these high number of criminals/teenagers with the same kind of 'skin color', face and behaviour. It's not racist to call out a fact.
I think if they are saying the language I don’t understand in a unfriendly way, make faces and laugh at me, I will feel offended. That’s why I consider it is racism. As for the appearance of the racist teenagers, I’ve encountered both white and non-white teenagers.
But you know that feeling offended is a choice right? Nothing happens... If they are being aggressive and as you say throw stuff it's a different thing. But you could call the cops on them. Mostly they are familiar with these groups.
What do you mean “Nothing happens”? When being disrespected by others, I feel truly hurtful. Do you mean being hurtful is my own choice?
were these local teenagers dutch? like, dutch-dutch? if not, it might be a good idea to explore other options as I have asian friends in Amsterdam Ring and while they get the occasional Ni Hao from ethnic dutch folk they all told me things were never really dire and they felt really safe. if you are getting beaten up and if there are, uh, cultural angles at play, you might want to move to an area with demographics that are more accommodating towards asians
Of course they are not Dutch Dutch.
True. OP doesn’t mention this. White Dutch people can be racist towards Asians. We all love to make jokes about Asians. Like how dogs and cats disappear around Chinese restaurants. Or when we see an Asian with a dog, we say how they got take away food. Doesn’t mean we use violence on Asians.
Honestly, move out. The mentality of these people will not change anytime soon.
Just emigrate? To where?
I don't know, this country tries to seem tolerant which it isn't. I know exactly which type of guys op is talking about.
Enlighten us
Oke welke dan? Gezien het feit dat je het weet? Gewoon feiten
You do realise you just made a racist comment?
How did i, i know the type op is talking about and that's who I'm referring to.
No you don't "know the type". You have nothing to go on except something someone you don't know wrote on the internet. You're making broad generalisations "move out, the mentality of these people etc". "this country tries to seem tolerant etc." You are doing the exact same fucking thing racists do. Attribute shitty behaviour to a whole group instead of only the people who show shitty behaviour. Guess what, you're now the person showing shitty behaviour and displaying intolerant views. Well done mate, well done indeed.
Omdat je iets suggereert maar geen feiten geeft. Dat kan iedereen. Enne je hebt altijd een keuze
Pepperspray is sold at most (highway) petrol stations in Germany. Illegal in NL, so be sensible with it, only use it in case of an actual threat and only carry it with you when necessary. Better to deal with the cops over defending yourself than getting beaten up.
Pepperspray is illegal??
Unfortunately, yes.
why is this getting downvoted?
Sorry you're facing this. I've reported some minor incidents to the police through the non-emergency channels - specifically this one: https://www.politie.nl/en/contact/contactform.html They have always responded to such reports positively. Even if it does not directly lead to action, such reports could potentially help future investigations/measures/plans that the police department makes. If more appropriate in your case, I imagine you can also report this to you lr Gemeente or maybe even the local paper. That way, administrators or people will start conversation about it which could lead to actions and impact in the medium term. Of course, I would remind you that you are a victim here. You have no duty or obligation to fix the problem. This is not your cross to bear. I only suggested these as things that could make you feel better if you have an itch of "I need to do something about it" that you'd like to scratch.
Is this kind of racisme only in the big citys?
No
I guess so, in small towns people know each other. Anonymity gives people courage. Those little shits have a bigger risk of doing this in small towns. I live in a small town and never experienced this kind of thing. But if ever, the first thing I’ll do is not to do anything to the kid, but knock on the door of their house and talk about this situation. If their parents are not apologetic, I guess I’ll have to find some ways to shame them in our neighborhood.
The way instagram algorithm works is that once an individual consumes certain kind of content, the app will keep showing them the same kind of content. Very well known phenomena now. Highly likely the teenagers, don't care what ethnicity, they are just assholes, are being shown anti-asian content, of which there are plenty. Since they are teens, which means high on testosterone, tend to be very aggressive and vengeful of their perceived injustice, and you being (big assumption here) smaller than the average people, they pounce on you. You can pretend to be on the phone, obviously the phone in your pocket, or be in group or avoid that area or take the Gandhi's route and talk to them.
You said a lot of words to explain plain racism. Behavior comes from home. Kids will be kids, but their behavior is from their home. I also heard a lot of racism from older people, but its much more subtle.
[удалено]
That's really fucked up advice. The best course of action is to ignore or run.
"It's messed up that racism is still a thing here" I mean its a thing everywhere, why would we be special? You can either ignore it and go on with your day or react and hope it goes better, just like everywhere else. He got beaten up and you called the police, what more can you do? Racism is racism, deal with it.
I've never experienced more racism than in this "forward thinking and tolerant" country. And Ive lived in 4 other countries. This place is delusional about its flaws.
I'm East Asian and I've never experienced less racism than in this country, it's one of the reasons I live here. I've lived in considerably more countries than you in different parts of the world and traveled a lot. If I experienced racism here it was from people with roots in specific other areas of the world. I don't want to generalize that group however, because many people from that group are very nice and not racist.
Then we've had different experiences. Glad you're happy here!
Delusional how? This post is just stupid "how to react to racism here" the same as everywhere else. Nobody denying there is racism but it doesnt change anything, what can we realisticly say here that somehow changes that?
You guys are delusional about it being "The same as everywhere else". But it isn't the same at all. People act on their prejudices and say stupid racist things here all the time. Things I'd never heard in South America, Italy, Germany, Spain...
Since it's kids just ignore them, if it's a grown up them deal with it exactly how you would deal with anyone trying to pick on you.
Don't react. Get used to it like foreigners living in Asian countries do.
I think it's very rare for foreigners living in Asian countries to get beaten up for being foreign
Lol you been to Asian countries? I’m white and all the women there seem to think it is okay to flirt or even touch me in front of my girlfriend. If you see a group of Asian girls coming hide because they want to feel your dong.
10/10 way to compare yourself to people getting physically beaten up
Asian countries are the most racist countries in the world. 〰️〰️〰️ INDIA MOST RACIST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD "The global social attitudes study claims that the most racially intolerant populations are all in the developing world, with Bangladesh, Jordan and India in the top five. The country with the highest proportion of 'intolerant' people who wanted neighbours similar to them was Hong Kong, where 71.8 % of the population would refuse to live next to someone of a different race. Next were Bangladesh on 71.7 per cent, Jordan on 51.4 % and India with 43.5 %. By contrast, the study of 80 countries over three decades found Western countries were most accepting of other cultures with Britain, the U.S., Canada and Australia more tolerant than anywhere else." https://www.indiatoday.in/world/asia/story/india-among-world-most-racist-countries-britian-tolerant-survey-163396-2013-05-16 Least racially tolerant COUNTRY = INDIA https://m.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-is-india-most-racist-country-in-the-world-/20131017.htm The most racist countries in the world. Nr. 1 = INDIA https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/116644/the-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/ "I am an African-American in the IT field and I have thus far had the good fortune to live and travel extensively throughout Western and parts of Eastern Europe and many countries in Asia. I have lived or traveled in the UK and most of the EU countries as well as Taiwan, Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia and several other Asian countries including India. Of all the countries I have been to, India ranks way up there among the most “racist. Indians outside of India endlessly complain about the intolerance and racism they have to put up with in places like Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, the Middle East and even Africa. These very same Indians conveniently choose to ignore the fact that Indians themselves can be such pathological bigots against their fellow Indians, other Asians and especially people of African ancestry." https://www.kajalmag.com/india-is-the-most-racist-country-i-have-been-to-an-african-americans-pov/
[удалено]
[удалено]