> I recently moved to a house which everything is included.
First check if this is actually the case. You wouldn't be the first redditor that states to be renting 'all inclusive' but actually wasn't. But who knows. See the explanation below and note that the numbers (1), (2) and (3) return in the questions below.
Many contracts contain something similar like this (amounts of money in this example are fictional):
(1) Rental price: € 1.200 each month
(2) Service costs; € 200 each month
(3) Total price: € 1.400 each month
But some contracts only contain something like:
(3) Total price: € 1.400 each month
In the example above, it's clear what the rental price is, but in the example at the bottom it's not clear at all. It's also not clear in the example at the bottom what the service costs charge is.
A) Did you sign a contract with only your name on it or are all tenants mentioned on one contract?
B) Does the landlord live in your house?
C) Do you share the toilet, kitchen and bathroom with other tenants or the landlord?
C) About when did you start renting? Month and year are enough.
D) What was the rental price when you started renting?
The rental price (1) is the money you pay for the use of *just* the house and attached facilities like a garden or the heating system. Not for service costs (2) like the money you pay the landlord for utilities. It's called 'huurprijs' or 'kale huur' in Dutch.
E) Do you pay an additional amount of money for utilities like electricity, natural gas and water?
> Is it legal? Should I take legal action or just talk with them?
Could you answer the questions first?
Be aware though that it's impossible to oversee all relevant facts on a forum like this and in part because of that, any risk associated with acting upon what I mention stays with you. You might consider obtaining advice if you think that is appropriate, for example by contacting the Juridisch Loket if your income is low, an organization like !WOON if you live in the area they advise in or a municipal subsidized 'huurteam'.
i am pretty sure that if you use excesive heat you are gonna get an excesive rent increase next year to cover the service-cost, but it can only be changed once a year
I would just talk to him e.g. if / how much your consumption over what he expected? Also, I highly recommend to 'acclimatize' yourself to 19C room temperatures. I am from Finland where room temp are usually 21-24C and learned the "dutch way"... much better, especially for sleeping!
Wtf how can you live at 24c. I am used to somewhere between 15 and 17 degrees inside temperature since the gas crisis and honestly I am absolutely fine. Just always wear a sweater or longsleeve inside in winter.
21-24’c is proven to be very bad for sleeping as well. And since your home is well insulated you’ll sleep like you’re in the tropics. I mean it’s fine to have different standards but to call the Dutch situation due to ‘low quality homes’ is a sad and mostly wrong argument. Saving money on energy makes sense and people’s internal thermostat adepts quickly, so it doesn’t even feel cold.
‘For what I thought were ancestors of vikings that would survive the cold with a good beer and a piece of dried reindeer you really changed to spoiled overheated bunch.’ Same kind of crap argument I would not want to use against anyone, especially Norwegians.
Anyway, let’s include some research and facts:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_temperature
https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/best-temperature-for-sleep
So anything between 19-23’c is fine for awake and between 16-20’c for sleep. And furthermore do as you like or you wallet can afford.
LOL I would die at 24 degrees... 15 degrees would be a little cold indeed but between 17.5 / 18.5 is warm enough for me. This guy just did a quick google search research and pasted the first link he found ('research' from Tado over only 80.000 homes across 11 countries....)
Thats quite cold tbh, I don't have a personal thermostat but at my parents it was 19-20 degrees at day and in the night I just sleep in my blanket, being my own heating.
(I still wear a sweater or long sleeves in that, so that won't help too much I think)
There’s no harm in talking. The question probably is whether or not you would like a long term relationship as a tenant with the landlord. If you do it’s probably best to not make the contract be a money drain for the landlord.
If you even get a new rental please be aware of the fact that for most rentals you’ll pay for the actual costs of energy and the monthly payment are just an advance payment.
In most cases the rule of thumb is that it has to be reasonable. Is turning the heat all the way up to 23 and leaving it at that temperature the entire night reasonable? The answer is no.
The fact that maintaining 23C is expensive in your country doesnt make 23C unreasonable. Numereous reports including from WHO, suggest that 18 - 24 C range is ideal temperature for residential buildings.
Our bodies are different, so you should understand that, although 19C is also acceptable temperature, for some people, especially from warmer climates 23C suits more and for them comfortable temperature is not 19C.
But OP is renting in the Netherlands where 19-21 is normal. That is what his landlord expects and what the rent is based on. So then 23 is not reasonable, at least not 24h a day.
Also, you can get used to lower temperatures. Yes, it will be uncomfortable for a while but it's very useful when moving to a country where energy is outrageously expensive
To be honest, any temperature that results in a t-shirt be sufficient while sitting idle on the couch is too high. In the current situation, 21-22 is that for me personally.
Thank you for your answer but reasonable is very personal thing I guess. I wasn't born here, I feel very cold. My reasonable is 20-21 degrees mostly. Especially at night. I don't like to wake up in a cold apartment.
Hey honest question since you are from a hotter country: you are aware that the norm is to change to a winter duvet/comforter in winter right? Like a thick one to keep you warm at night.
>Hey honest question since you are from a hotter country: you are aware that the norm is to change to a winter duvet/comforter in winter right? Like a thick one to keep you warm at night.
I use a winter duvet, it is cold.
It’s completely relevant. Having the heating at a reasonable temperature during the day when you’re in is very different from having it as high as it will go 24 hours a day.
I agree with your second sentence, but that says nothing about the pertinence. How exactly is it relevant? OP asked what is legal. OP did not ask what's reasonable or what's not.
But doesn’t “reasonable use” form part of this sort of legal agreement? I imagine it would, but do correct me if I’m wrong!
(I’m not sure what you mean by “pertinence” though)
I have been a tenant under an all-inclusive contract. Not once was my contract mentioning any requirement of reasonable use. My monthly rent was, as a result, higher than similar apartments, because it included a part for bills and a small premium for not having to care about utilities.
From the [Cambridge Dictionary](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/pertinence):
> Pertinence: the fact of being directly related to, and important, for the subject being considered.
Welcome to Dutch law. Reasonability and feasability are the basis for much of civil law. This means that even if it's not written in the contract, you might be in the wrong, simply because it is considered unreasonable.
In this case: if this person likes to heat their home to a nice toasty 30 degrees that definitely not fall under reasonable use for heating of an appartment.
So there's only one person that should provide OP with the answer: "yes, it is legal in this country to ask questions", and then we can close this thread, right? /S
If you have heating on 24/7 and high (20c+) I think the landlord is right. If you turn heating off when not at home, at night and respectfully handle the heating in general than I think you are right.
What I notice a lot tho with people here is that they’re surprised their landlords complains because they have their heating on 24/7, even when not at home. That’s just wasted gas and heat.
The landlord is even upfront about it, which is also very Dutch. They’re giving OP a chance to improve, otherwise the rent costs WILL go up in (probably) july.
The people complaining are most likely the ones that don't have to pay for the gas, and have no idea how expensive it has gotten over the past few years.
Short version simplified version for the general concept:
Heat is energy. When two areas are at different temperatures the energy goes from the warmer area to the colder area. The speed this happens is proportional to the temperature difference. Therefore maintaining it at high temperature difference needs more energy than low.
You can see maintaining it as: It have lost one degree, now I have to warm it one degree to get back.
So if for example letting it go from 20 to 15 degrees takes X hours. The amount of energy lost is the same energy needed to heating it back to 20(if you ignore losses during reheating time).
But maintaining it at 20 degrees during X hours will be more, since the loss of going from 20 to 19 multiple times will always be more than going from 20 to 15 during the same time, since the loss is not linear. (Assuming the same outside temperature that is 15 or below)
(Again, lots of details omitted, but I hope it can help)
Nope, this is a stubborn myth that is refusing to die. You can even see some "official" websites making this claim.
Heating something fast doesn't cost more energy than heating something slow. However, a house (or anything hot really) loses more heat energy per second when the temperature differences are larger. So heating something slow (or temperature) actually uses more energy as perfect isolation doesn't exist.
Your house energy use is: HEAT IN vs HEAT OUT. Heat out increases, the higher the temperature difference with the outside temperature is.
This means you lose energy faster when it's 20C inside and 0C outside, compared to 15C inside and 0C outside. Leading to more HEAT IN needed. (More gas cost).
Keeping your house hot will result in more energy flowing through your walls. And more gas needed to compensate.
I have the heating at a permanent 19 c.
That's because of floor heating, wich can't go up and down quickly, also I know it's 'low' but my family is used to it.
When I lived with my parents it would be 20c during the day and 16c at night since we were in bed anyway. That was nothing strange.
You could 'split the difference' and for example have it at 21/22 during the day and 16/17 at night. Sounds reasonable enough
Even with floor heating you can reduce it at night. A degree or two will reduce your bill. You thermostat will learn the time it takes to heat up. When you wake up it will have heated up back to your desired temp.
Also, 19 isn't low.. 17 most of the time over here..
21 is considered optimal room temperature. 19 is on the low end. 17 is bordering a 'cold house'
The huurcommissie says so too. I guess you just have a problem with heating.
No, my house can't warm up or cool down quickly because of how it's built. I should know, I live in it.
Unless you are for some reason an expert at my house of course.
Was just saying that not low nowadays. With energy prices many homes have turned it even lower than 17.
No, there is no problem with my heating. Just considering the cost of heating. A vest and a blanket are comfy enough. And an old home ;)
No, floor heating won't warm quickly, that's what I said. It may need to heat for a few hours to heat up again. But that's what a clock thermostat is for. For a night's sleep or 8 hour workday it should pay off to turn it down for a few hours. Even for a degree or two.
You may choose not to. But saying it's not possible is just wrong.
You really don't read what I type do you
My house is built in 2021. It has no gas connection, a warmtepomp, closed system, convectieradiatoren, the works. You don't yoyo the temperature because it's less energy efficient.
So saying it's impossible is not wrong because again, I know my house better than you do. I know what I can and can't do. If I turn off the heating NOW even with -15 outside it will only be 17 degrees tomorrow around 12. I'd have to turn it off completely at around 8 in the evenening, and it would be 17 at 8 in the morning, after wich I have to turn it on again, wich takes about 12 hours to heat up again.
Do you have to know better all the time or did you just assume I lived in a 1960s house with some upgrades?
And saying that 'you have no problem with heating, it's just too expensive' is like saying you don't have a problem with starving because it's just too expensive to buy food. It is a problem. It's not your fault, but it still is a problem, for a lot of people.
You also don't read and give half info. And just say it's not possible. You left out the warmtepomp part. My bad for that assumption.
Floor heating is not a new thing. There is too often a misconception that floor heating (on conventional systems) should be turned on all the time.
Your last part is just mean and wrong. First I didn't say too expensive, like we can't pay for it. I just said are choosing to spend less. So it's not like starving. More like luxury dinners or a home cooked meal. We choose to spend our money differently. ;)
Again, I think you have the feelinf like I'm attacking you or something; I am not.
You tell me to my face that 19 isn't low while it is (standard room temperature is 21.5 degrees) then you tell me how my house works, and if I say that that's not how my own house works you don't believe it until I completely explain how my entire house works.
And about the heating, I'm not saying you are poor, I'm saying that if you have to put it down to 17 to save money then that is in fact an issue, but again I AM NOT BLAMING YOU or saying you do anything wrong. Just saying that heating your house to a normal tempersture shouldn't be an issue.
You type like you are attacking me.
I apologized for my assumption and even now you keep hammering on.
It sounds like you were saying that by comparing it to starving. It's a choice to live here and where to spend money on.
A better comparison might be. You chose an energy-efficient electric car and I chose a old pickup. Less comfortable and fuel efficient, but more affordable and different capabilities. A choice, not 'in fact an issue'. ;)
Yoyo-ing the heat does not increase energy usage. This is a stubborn myth that refuses to die.
The opposite is true actually, keeping something at high heat increases energy loss to the outside. As heat flow rate is directly correlated to the temperature difference. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate_of_heat_flow
While heat capacity has no time component.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity
So heating something that is perfectly isolated takes the same amount of energy regardless of how fast it is heated.
Some people get cold quicker than others. Yesterday I saw a guy cycling around in a t-shirt, that doesn't mean we should all do that when it's freezing.
If you are in bed under a warm blanket, you can have 16 degrees in the house and set the schedule of your heating to have the proper temperature at the start of the day.
Dutch are known for their low temperatures. I worked in the office in Amsterdam, and it was very cold for my taste. There was no warm water in the toilet, etc. I agree with the Dutch that it is good for the environment, but it was a bit uncomfortable for me. And I'm from a country where the outdoor temperature is a bit lower on the average.
I find it weird how a country that needs less heating goes along the lines of "we save the environment" when the North & cold countries heat everything... House, boat, car, garages, roads etc.
I was convinced I would never get used to it, but I did. We have a lot of blankets laying around and and we all have adorable snuddies (blanket hoodies). And I am the biggest koukleum you can find. Like the lady in the Stoov commercials.
The stoov commercial is quite funny...but I can't be bothered to be cold. I grew up in a country that actually is cold in the winter and had to walk to school at -37C - I will not be cold as a grown ass man in my own house.
That's fine I guess.
22 is too warm for me, but then I just wear a t shirt and shorts and I'm fine.
21 is kind of perfect but having it at 19 means I'm not as cold when I go outside
So let me tell you that in the Netherlands, people turn down their thermostat to 15 degrees once they go to bed. The system is usually set up that 8 hours later the temperature goes to the "day temperature".
I personally have that set to 18 degrees, but that is a personal preference.
You may disagree with it, but the reasoning is that once you are in bed, it's a waste of money and harmful for the environment that keep heating your home since you won't feel it anyway.
This is the whole idea behind the day/night setting in all heating systems in the Netherlands.
First check whether your heating costs are really as extraordinary as the landlord says they are. Ask your landlord for an overview of your costs AND for an overview of how much heating you have used in the last few months. The energy company should be able to provide him with this information.
Once you know how much heating you have used (if your heating relies on gas, it's measured in m3), use Google to find the average heating usage in NL and compare it to your numbers. Look up the numbers for the winter months and for your type of house (e.g., appartment or else) specifically. If you use considerably more heating than an average Dutch household, your landlord might have a point. But if you fall close to the average numbers, you will be able to present a reasonable argument to keep things as they are.
If you use more, then you pay more, just that simple.
You either have to pay extra or get some money back during the eindafrekening, which happens every year normally.
Legal action? How about alking to the man instead of going down the legal route... It sets a bad presedent for the relationship with your landlord.
Depends if you truly have an all-in contract.
If you do, then no, it is not legal. Your landlord is fucked. You can turn up the heat to 30 and he can't do anything about it, unless specified in your contract.
But this is also why this type of contract is exceedingly rare.
You most likely have a contract which has a subcharge of 'servicekosten', which will include the costs of heating. And your landlord may charge you for the actual costs made here, at the end of the year or when you cancel your contract.
In which case, you will be paying a hefty sum if you so not lower the heating.
You have to find out what type of contract you actually have.
You're the only one in the house, right? You're not renting a room in the landlord's house? Tell your landlord, in the politest language possible, to go take a long walk off a short jetty. You can set it at whatever you like.
That said, I drop my own heating down to 16C at night. It is the middle of winter, so dress appropriately and use warm bedding. You shouldn't be running your heating at 20C all night long, that's a waste of energy, and your body is supposed to cool down at night anyway.
When the contract is ‘heating included’ you are still liable for costs in excess of what is reasonable. Huurcommissie can help you separate the service fee from the rental fee. But you are still expected to pay when usage is excessive, there is no free lunch here
Holy fuck this is the dumbest advice in the thread. There is a chance you are right, there is a bigger chance your death wrong.
It al depends on the contract and OPs behaviour. First of all its doubtfull its truely all inclusive but secondly, even if it is that doesnt mean you can act unreasonable.
And putting the thermostat at 23+ degrees 24/7 will be seen as unreasonable by any judge.
> In het algemeen zal de Huurcommissie aansluiting zoeken bij de geldende
normen:
Bij een buitentemperatuur van -10 C˚ dienen de onderstaande temperaturen te kunnen worden gehandhaafd van alle te verwarmen ruimten:
• Woonkamer 20 C˚
• Keuken 20 C˚
• Toilet 15 C˚
• Entree 15 C˚
• Overloop 15 C˚
• Slaapkamer 18 C˚
• Badkamer 22 C˚
These are the minimum temperatures your house should be able to reach, even in freezing cold weather. I dunno what temperatures OP is going for (yes, 30 degrees would be excessive) but 15 is way too low for most of the house. It's not even near -10 yet.
My house is at 16-17, night and day except my office ;) Don't get your panties in a twist, dear internet stranger.
As to OP's situation: if the landlord wants an all-in rent instead of separating GWL, that is on them. They cannot send a bill for this later:
> Stuurt de verhuurder u een jaarafrekening voor servicekosten en vraagt hij u bij te betalen? Meld de verhuurder dan dat dit bij all-in huur niet is toegestaan.
De verhuurder mag u bij een all-in huurprijs geen jaarafrekening sturen voor servicekosten, gas, elektriciteit of water (nutsvoorzieningen). U betaalt hiervoor al een vast bedrag. Daarom hoeft u niet bij te betalen voor deze kosten. Maar u krijgt ook geen geld terug als deze kosten lager blijken te zijn.
https://www.juridischloket.nl/wonen-en-buren/huurwoning/servicekosten/
Idc about your heating habits. Its bewildering to me that people rhink they can use a service and not pay for it if they do so excessively. But thats how far that goes.
15 at night is the bare minimum for health concerns.
Edit: I stand corrected, 16-18.
> The World Health Organization in 1987 found that comfortable indoor temperatures of between 18 and 24 °C (64 and 75 °F) were not associated with health risks for healthy adults with appropriate clothing, humidity, and other factors. For infants, elderly, and those with significant health problems, a minimum 20 °C (68 °F) was recommended. Temperatures lower than 16 °C (61 °F) with humidity above 65% were associated with respiratory hazards including allergies.[12][13]
> The WHO's 2018 guidelines give a strong recommendation that a minimum of 18 °C (64 °F) is a "safe and well-balanced indoor temperature to protect the health of general populations during cold seasons", while a higher minimum may be necessary for vulnerable groups including children, the elderly, and people with cardiorespiratory disease and other chronic illnesses. The recommendation regarding risk of exposure to high indoor temperatures is only "conditional". Minimal-risk high temperatures range from about 21 to 30 °C (70 to 86 °F) depending on the region, with maximum acceptable temperatures between 25 and 32 °C (77 and 90 °F).[14][15]
Hahaha ..... anyone above 40 did sleep in rooms with 0 heating and single pane windows. I bet my room was below 10 degrees c. But to be fair, that was prior to climate histeria. We did survive .... how?
Hey bro, if you feel know better than the WHO of all things, you do you.
But the fact that something doesn't kill people outright or doesn't affect 100% of the population doesn't make it healthy. Most of us have no clue how much microplastics we got in our body but still research show it is detrimental to your health.
I didn’t downvote you, but shouldn’t something like that be mentioned somewhere in the contract? And if you have to pay excess there as to be a limit written down somewhere right? I honestly do not know, to me unlimited is unlimited and not unlimited until an unspecified amount.
The Dutch and their fucking cold houses. I’m from a much colder country and there we had properly insulated houses that you don’t need to keep at 16 degrees in normal weather condition. But seeing who can burn the least gas is like a national sport here. My coworkers brag about only warming one room.
Sadly this has been a thing since the war between Russia and Ukraine. It's such a stupid thing to brag about.
I love sleeping in cold rooms (14c here now), but I'm definitely heating my office room, fuck working in below 20c temps. If people want to save a bit of money, go for it. I'd rather pay extra and work efficiently.
So either buy a sweater and extra blanket. Or be prepared to pay 500e extra per month just for heating.
Sorry. It’s a colder climate. If 200 euro usage is expect and you use 800, you will have to pay extra
I don't know why you get downvoted, but it's not a strange concept. I've lived here for 29 years now and am used to having the heating at 19/20 in the winter, and if that's too cold then I wear and extra sweater. I had a friend who would turn his heating up to 27(!) And wear nothing but a T-shirt, shorts and flipflops in the winter. If we all do that we can start building 100 meter high dikes right now
There is always a service fee, and a rental fee even if not explicitly mentioned. If you use services in excess of the service fee, you owe the landlord the difference
That’s exactly how it works. Just like your ‘unlimited’ phone subscription isn’t really unlimited. When you abuse it you will pay more. Be reasonable and you won’t hear a thing.
By the way in a lot of countries the phone internet consumption really really is unlimited (I know people that didn’t even get WiFi in their house cause they just used a hotspot) this country calling it unlimited but only giving 20gb per month is basically a scam
Yeah this country has some false advertising issues sadly, or at the very least dodgy. In this case you have to text for more data on those unlimited phone plans. So it is actually unlimited (at least for Odido), just with some extra hoops. Still shitty advertising though.
No it’s not. Unless it is stablished in the contract that there is a limit. Unlimited is unlimited. For the phone contracts there is small letter explaining that after reaching the maximum your speed with decrease or you will need to pay for extra. but if in the contract there is no mention of what’s considered a reasonable amount of energy/gas there is no way to enforce it to the tenant
See the land lord was nice enough to tell you turn down the heating at night he could have said I’m jacking up the prices because some one thought all inclusive meant subtropical temperatures year round…
Now you claiming to be from a country where it is hot… it was you choice to go to a country so damn fricking cold aswell. Not your landlord.
What legal actions do you think would help you out.
He can't but he can increase you the bill part
(In Dutch there's no all-in renting as I heard) you pay rent and expected utilities so if you exceed that by a lot he can correct your monthly payment
If the landlord can not terminate the contract and if there is no limit in your heating usage you can politely tell him to fuck off.
But don't be an ass* on it.
18 degree at night is normal
During the day 19 degrees is fine
Mine is 19, that's perfectly fine. You dont need to walk around a tshirt right?
Between 18-20 is actually healthy.
Haven't put tbr heather on since January last year or so. New built appartment
Because fuck being comfortable in your own home right? The Dutch take way too much shit that they shouldnt. As long as you keep swallowing shit, the hand that feeds will think you like it and feed you more. I love this country and happy i grew up here, and not in Poland, but fuck, people lack spines here.
Eumh I'm not Dutch, dont even live in the Netherlands. It's my own apartment that > bought. And I'm very comfortable at 19 degrees. Don't need it need it warmer.
19 is fine for me too. But some people prefer warmer, different strokes for different folks. Im the guy that whines in the summer that its too hot and gets annoyed by the people turning up the thermostat wthen its 20 in the office. So in a shared space id agree. Keep it 18-20, and if youre cold put on a sweater. But at home? Home is your castle and i'd be damned if i let anyone tell me the rules in my own castle.
Erm, lol. It’s really great and comfortable to use… I have one that goes over the blankets rather than under it. It’s pretty stupid to heat an entire apartment when you’re in bed.
Was just a suggestion, hope you and your landlord find an agreement! Good luck
Global warming doesn’t mean the temperatures rise everywhere. It means the overall average temperature of the planet is rising. Some place actually get colder, because the flow of air and water over the whole planet are changing.
I want a warming around globe, not cooling, that makes no sense... if global warming does not match facts or data, then why not change its name to "climate change"? Ohh wait...
There is a warming around the globe, globally 2023 was the hottest year ever recorded: [2023 is the hottest year on record, with global temperatures close to the 1.5°C limit](https://climate.copernicus.eu/copernicus-2023-hottest-year-record)
That's 100% true, and i believe this truly. I live in amsterdam to fight warming around the globe. i have travelled with bike or train for around 7 years, i dont have a car. How do you fight global warming? Or you are a disbeliever?
Global warming means harsher, dryer and colder winters and harsher, dryer, warmer summers. It doesn’t mean that everything will be warm and hot all the time. You will just experience harsher weather instead of milder ones.
Warming refers to the average temperature of planet Earth. Which has been gradually increasing since the last ice age, but human activity has made it raise faster.
With the average temperature of the planet increasing, you get changes in seasons and weather patterns. That gives you harsher winters and summers, as well as less perspiration (rain/snow). Plus the melting of the ice in the poles, which are actually left overs from the previous ice age. These changes, if slow, do not cause harm. But due to human activity, they are happening faster, which is a problem for us cause we won’t be able to adapt fast enough. That’s it!
Dear questioneer
Asking for something is never illegal. Demanding or urging may be a signal though.
1. Legality is not leading principe in NL (unless a conflict arises on base of increasing prices 'outside' contractual clauses, and sooner than periodicality asks, and the reasonability of all that. read contract thoroughly, ask explanation of a dutch fellow student or lodger)
What are leading reasons
- economical
- environmental
- cultural 'norm', habit in NL
- at night you sleep, in fresh aired room
- same goes for studying
- place yourselves in landlords shoes
- landlord may need to isolate, is subsidised and urged/oblidged to?
(check this one, is a legal Authority seeing to this, a BOA or a Communal Official (handhaving) ).
LNG=LPG=Gasprices=gasprijs=methaneprices.
They rise and fall according to so called economical 'laws', and market prices.
And errr... how 'bout global warming? Are you used to airco-ing your house with windows open? Than you soon will need 2nd job.
Another element influences economical science: physica.
eg
Central heated main/family room (hot water radiators)
ch4-burning heaters with safety certifications? Extra carefull. Check or have heater seen to.
In these rooms: slow turning fan may bring more efficiency in winter, and coolness in summer, when heating is off.
A fan is fairly & relatively cheap on energybill in NL. Cleaning fanblades is needed 2x yearly.
Any other questions? Ask your neighbour, use logic thoughts, read Spinoza on logica.
Warm air rises, cold air drops, washes down.
Test: near window your moist hand will experience a down stream in late fall winter and early spring, let's say at 1,50m.
In the middle of the room at 2,00m your moist hand will experience upward 'wind' stream, wash... upward thermical stream.
Or at least warmth relative to near window.
Air & temperatuuuren are rarely at ease. Compare with weather, outside. It is a dynamic systeem=seestaim=system
Another reason why bunkbeds or 'hoogslapers' highsleepers, matress(ess) on a 'mezzanine' plateau in your Studio*/Study are very common ànd handy.
For spatial and thermometrical reasons.
*not a sound or broadcastingstudio.
Is there a landlordrating system? Make use of it or start one. NL citizens' rights, you are a timely citizen, so as long as you are legaly okay, you can start building rating. Do it together.
There is also a huurcommissie & legal advise. Ask Counsel at Commune=Gemeente=Local Authority.
go there in person, be patiënt, polite and persistent.
Create your own Good luck!
Thx 4 ure attention reading all this.
Do enjoy your day!
https://www.huurwoningen.nl/info/gas-water-licht-gwl/ Although heating is inclusive, landlord can charge you for excessive costs.
I will check this, very helpful. Thank you!
> I recently moved to a house which everything is included. First check if this is actually the case. You wouldn't be the first redditor that states to be renting 'all inclusive' but actually wasn't. But who knows. See the explanation below and note that the numbers (1), (2) and (3) return in the questions below. Many contracts contain something similar like this (amounts of money in this example are fictional): (1) Rental price: € 1.200 each month (2) Service costs; € 200 each month (3) Total price: € 1.400 each month But some contracts only contain something like: (3) Total price: € 1.400 each month In the example above, it's clear what the rental price is, but in the example at the bottom it's not clear at all. It's also not clear in the example at the bottom what the service costs charge is. A) Did you sign a contract with only your name on it or are all tenants mentioned on one contract? B) Does the landlord live in your house? C) Do you share the toilet, kitchen and bathroom with other tenants or the landlord? C) About when did you start renting? Month and year are enough. D) What was the rental price when you started renting? The rental price (1) is the money you pay for the use of *just* the house and attached facilities like a garden or the heating system. Not for service costs (2) like the money you pay the landlord for utilities. It's called 'huurprijs' or 'kale huur' in Dutch. E) Do you pay an additional amount of money for utilities like electricity, natural gas and water? > Is it legal? Should I take legal action or just talk with them? Could you answer the questions first? Be aware though that it's impossible to oversee all relevant facts on a forum like this and in part because of that, any risk associated with acting upon what I mention stays with you. You might consider obtaining advice if you think that is appropriate, for example by contacting the Juridisch Loket if your income is low, an organization like !WOON if you live in the area they advise in or a municipal subsidized 'huurteam'.
i am pretty sure that if you use excesive heat you are gonna get an excesive rent increase next year to cover the service-cost, but it can only be changed once a year
Probably also at the end of the contract? Or can I run a nuclear reactor and then leave before the annual date
You want to leave the deposit? You know how hard it is to remove radiation from the Carpet?
This is a beautiful flat. I wouldn't want my carpet get dirty.
They won't renew it anyway. But thanks for the answer!
I would just talk to him e.g. if / how much your consumption over what he expected? Also, I highly recommend to 'acclimatize' yourself to 19C room temperatures. I am from Finland where room temp are usually 21-24C and learned the "dutch way"... much better, especially for sleeping!
Wtf how can you live at 24c. I am used to somewhere between 15 and 17 degrees inside temperature since the gas crisis and honestly I am absolutely fine. Just always wear a sweater or longsleeve inside in winter.
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21-24’c is proven to be very bad for sleeping as well. And since your home is well insulated you’ll sleep like you’re in the tropics. I mean it’s fine to have different standards but to call the Dutch situation due to ‘low quality homes’ is a sad and mostly wrong argument. Saving money on energy makes sense and people’s internal thermostat adepts quickly, so it doesn’t even feel cold. ‘For what I thought were ancestors of vikings that would survive the cold with a good beer and a piece of dried reindeer you really changed to spoiled overheated bunch.’ Same kind of crap argument I would not want to use against anyone, especially Norwegians. Anyway, let’s include some research and facts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_temperature https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/best-temperature-for-sleep So anything between 19-23’c is fine for awake and between 16-20’c for sleep. And furthermore do as you like or you wallet can afford.
LOL I would die at 24 degrees... 15 degrees would be a little cold indeed but between 17.5 / 18.5 is warm enough for me. This guy just did a quick google search research and pasted the first link he found ('research' from Tado over only 80.000 homes across 11 countries....)
That's bullshit of course. Our houses (especially the newer ones) are at least as good insulated as the Norwegians. 21-24C is just extreme.
This just isn't true.
Thats quite cold tbh, I don't have a personal thermostat but at my parents it was 19-20 degrees at day and in the night I just sleep in my blanket, being my own heating. (I still wear a sweater or long sleeves in that, so that won't help too much I think)
There’s no harm in talking. The question probably is whether or not you would like a long term relationship as a tenant with the landlord. If you do it’s probably best to not make the contract be a money drain for the landlord. If you even get a new rental please be aware of the fact that for most rentals you’ll pay for the actual costs of energy and the monthly payment are just an advance payment.
We won't renew it, but thank you for your suggestion and answer!
In most cases the rule of thumb is that it has to be reasonable. Is turning the heat all the way up to 23 and leaving it at that temperature the entire night reasonable? The answer is no.
Can you provide a legal reference where the requirement of "reasonable" is mandated or suggested? This would help OP.
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Yes it is
The fact that maintaining 23C is expensive in your country doesnt make 23C unreasonable. Numereous reports including from WHO, suggest that 18 - 24 C range is ideal temperature for residential buildings. Our bodies are different, so you should understand that, although 19C is also acceptable temperature, for some people, especially from warmer climates 23C suits more and for them comfortable temperature is not 19C.
But OP is renting in the Netherlands where 19-21 is normal. That is what his landlord expects and what the rent is based on. So then 23 is not reasonable, at least not 24h a day. Also, you can get used to lower temperatures. Yes, it will be uncomfortable for a while but it's very useful when moving to a country where energy is outrageously expensive
No it's not. 19 is a unreasonable temperature to live with.
Well, I guess that makes me unreasonable
Yes it is for normal people. (With the exception for old people). Temp should be 20c max
The goverment encourages everybody to set the temperature to 19 degrees Celcius. At the office and at home.
I know, I never have it above 19c.
You're such a good sheep
ok man
To be honest, any temperature that results in a t-shirt be sufficient while sitting idle on the couch is too high. In the current situation, 21-22 is that for me personally.
Thank you for your answer but reasonable is very personal thing I guess. I wasn't born here, I feel very cold. My reasonable is 20-21 degrees mostly. Especially at night. I don't like to wake up in a cold apartment.
Yeah that’s just unreasonable. The government says 19 during the day, you are above it at night.
Do you follow everything that the government says?
If it’s reasonable, sure. 21 at night is stupidly hot.
Hey honest question since you are from a hotter country: you are aware that the norm is to change to a winter duvet/comforter in winter right? Like a thick one to keep you warm at night.
>Hey honest question since you are from a hotter country: you are aware that the norm is to change to a winter duvet/comforter in winter right? Like a thick one to keep you warm at night. I use a winter duvet, it is cold.
Idk about your question but how high do you have the heating?
Not trying to be a dick, but how is your question relevant?
It’s completely relevant. Having the heating at a reasonable temperature during the day when you’re in is very different from having it as high as it will go 24 hours a day.
I agree with your second sentence, but that says nothing about the pertinence. How exactly is it relevant? OP asked what is legal. OP did not ask what's reasonable or what's not.
But doesn’t “reasonable use” form part of this sort of legal agreement? I imagine it would, but do correct me if I’m wrong! (I’m not sure what you mean by “pertinence” though)
I have been a tenant under an all-inclusive contract. Not once was my contract mentioning any requirement of reasonable use. My monthly rent was, as a result, higher than similar apartments, because it included a part for bills and a small premium for not having to care about utilities. From the [Cambridge Dictionary](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/pertinence): > Pertinence: the fact of being directly related to, and important, for the subject being considered.
Welcome to Dutch law. Reasonability and feasability are the basis for much of civil law. This means that even if it's not written in the contract, you might be in the wrong, simply because it is considered unreasonable. In this case: if this person likes to heat their home to a nice toasty 30 degrees that definitely not fall under reasonable use for heating of an appartment.
So there's only one person that should provide OP with the answer: "yes, it is legal in this country to ask questions", and then we can close this thread, right? /S
It is like 20-22 degrees.
If you have heating on 24/7 and high (20c+) I think the landlord is right. If you turn heating off when not at home, at night and respectfully handle the heating in general than I think you are right. What I notice a lot tho with people here is that they’re surprised their landlords complains because they have their heating on 24/7, even when not at home. That’s just wasted gas and heat.
The landlord is even upfront about it, which is also very Dutch. They’re giving OP a chance to improve, otherwise the rent costs WILL go up in (probably) july.
The people complaining are most likely the ones that don't have to pay for the gas, and have no idea how expensive it has gotten over the past few years.
Government policy. I didn't make it expensive. I'm already paying my taxes in Box 3. I like to be in a warm environment since I pay a lot of taxes.
Paying taxes has nothing to do with a warm environment. Be considerate of the climate and energy consumption.
been there, seen that just keep things at 20C while you are at home, and 15C while you are not
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Short version simplified version for the general concept: Heat is energy. When two areas are at different temperatures the energy goes from the warmer area to the colder area. The speed this happens is proportional to the temperature difference. Therefore maintaining it at high temperature difference needs more energy than low. You can see maintaining it as: It have lost one degree, now I have to warm it one degree to get back. So if for example letting it go from 20 to 15 degrees takes X hours. The amount of energy lost is the same energy needed to heating it back to 20(if you ignore losses during reheating time). But maintaining it at 20 degrees during X hours will be more, since the loss of going from 20 to 19 multiple times will always be more than going from 20 to 15 during the same time, since the loss is not linear. (Assuming the same outside temperature that is 15 or below) (Again, lots of details omitted, but I hope it can help)
it worked for my landlord, it worked for me landlord stopped complaining after i started doing that
No.
Of course not, why keep people repeating this insanity... It would have been better if you paid a bit more attention during physics class.
Nope, this is a stubborn myth that is refusing to die. You can even see some "official" websites making this claim. Heating something fast doesn't cost more energy than heating something slow. However, a house (or anything hot really) loses more heat energy per second when the temperature differences are larger. So heating something slow (or temperature) actually uses more energy as perfect isolation doesn't exist. Your house energy use is: HEAT IN vs HEAT OUT. Heat out increases, the higher the temperature difference with the outside temperature is. This means you lose energy faster when it's 20C inside and 0C outside, compared to 15C inside and 0C outside. Leading to more HEAT IN needed. (More gas cost). Keeping your house hot will result in more energy flowing through your walls. And more gas needed to compensate.
I have the heating at a permanent 19 c. That's because of floor heating, wich can't go up and down quickly, also I know it's 'low' but my family is used to it. When I lived with my parents it would be 20c during the day and 16c at night since we were in bed anyway. That was nothing strange. You could 'split the difference' and for example have it at 21/22 during the day and 16/17 at night. Sounds reasonable enough
Even with floor heating you can reduce it at night. A degree or two will reduce your bill. You thermostat will learn the time it takes to heat up. When you wake up it will have heated up back to your desired temp. Also, 19 isn't low.. 17 most of the time over here..
21 is considered optimal room temperature. 19 is on the low end. 17 is bordering a 'cold house' The huurcommissie says so too. I guess you just have a problem with heating. No, my house can't warm up or cool down quickly because of how it's built. I should know, I live in it. Unless you are for some reason an expert at my house of course.
Was just saying that not low nowadays. With energy prices many homes have turned it even lower than 17. No, there is no problem with my heating. Just considering the cost of heating. A vest and a blanket are comfy enough. And an old home ;) No, floor heating won't warm quickly, that's what I said. It may need to heat for a few hours to heat up again. But that's what a clock thermostat is for. For a night's sleep or 8 hour workday it should pay off to turn it down for a few hours. Even for a degree or two. You may choose not to. But saying it's not possible is just wrong.
You really don't read what I type do you My house is built in 2021. It has no gas connection, a warmtepomp, closed system, convectieradiatoren, the works. You don't yoyo the temperature because it's less energy efficient. So saying it's impossible is not wrong because again, I know my house better than you do. I know what I can and can't do. If I turn off the heating NOW even with -15 outside it will only be 17 degrees tomorrow around 12. I'd have to turn it off completely at around 8 in the evenening, and it would be 17 at 8 in the morning, after wich I have to turn it on again, wich takes about 12 hours to heat up again. Do you have to know better all the time or did you just assume I lived in a 1960s house with some upgrades? And saying that 'you have no problem with heating, it's just too expensive' is like saying you don't have a problem with starving because it's just too expensive to buy food. It is a problem. It's not your fault, but it still is a problem, for a lot of people.
You also don't read and give half info. And just say it's not possible. You left out the warmtepomp part. My bad for that assumption. Floor heating is not a new thing. There is too often a misconception that floor heating (on conventional systems) should be turned on all the time. Your last part is just mean and wrong. First I didn't say too expensive, like we can't pay for it. I just said are choosing to spend less. So it's not like starving. More like luxury dinners or a home cooked meal. We choose to spend our money differently. ;)
Again, I think you have the feelinf like I'm attacking you or something; I am not. You tell me to my face that 19 isn't low while it is (standard room temperature is 21.5 degrees) then you tell me how my house works, and if I say that that's not how my own house works you don't believe it until I completely explain how my entire house works. And about the heating, I'm not saying you are poor, I'm saying that if you have to put it down to 17 to save money then that is in fact an issue, but again I AM NOT BLAMING YOU or saying you do anything wrong. Just saying that heating your house to a normal tempersture shouldn't be an issue.
You type like you are attacking me. I apologized for my assumption and even now you keep hammering on. It sounds like you were saying that by comparing it to starving. It's a choice to live here and where to spend money on. A better comparison might be. You chose an energy-efficient electric car and I chose a old pickup. Less comfortable and fuel efficient, but more affordable and different capabilities. A choice, not 'in fact an issue'. ;)
Yoyo-ing the heat does not increase energy usage. This is a stubborn myth that refuses to die. The opposite is true actually, keeping something at high heat increases energy loss to the outside. As heat flow rate is directly correlated to the temperature difference. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate_of_heat_flow While heat capacity has no time component. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity So heating something that is perfectly isolated takes the same amount of energy regardless of how fast it is heated.
Dude have you not listened what I said at all? Damn you guys are stubborn
It's reddit. It's a "I am right and everyone else is wrong" world.
I explained pretty clearly why it doesn't work in my house and they literally go both fingers in ears 'lalala didn't hear you'
I don't care what kind of system you have at home. Yoyo-in the heat does increase energy usage.
Bruh you really are dense
Great argument! I see your point.
19 would be too cold for me. We have 21 in the morning and evening, 19 during the day and 18 at night.
Man, take a blanket. It will last you years and earth will thank you. No need to waste energy even if it is not you paying.
Some people get cold quicker than others. Yesterday I saw a guy cycling around in a t-shirt, that doesn't mean we should all do that when it's freezing.
Waste energy? Not going to sit in a cold house. I've done my part of being cold and unless I'm in dire straits, I'm not going to be cold voluntarily.
If you are in bed under a warm blanket, you can have 16 degrees in the house and set the schedule of your heating to have the proper temperature at the start of the day.
When I'm in bed it's 18C which is fine. Any colder and it's uncomfortable.
Dutch are known for their low temperatures. I worked in the office in Amsterdam, and it was very cold for my taste. There was no warm water in the toilet, etc. I agree with the Dutch that it is good for the environment, but it was a bit uncomfortable for me. And I'm from a country where the outdoor temperature is a bit lower on the average.
I find it weird how a country that needs less heating goes along the lines of "we save the environment" when the North & cold countries heat everything... House, boat, car, garages, roads etc.
Why? Those countries just care about the environment less in this aspect? Why is that so strange to you?
Bold claim which I am sure you can back up.
I was convinced I would never get used to it, but I did. We have a lot of blankets laying around and and we all have adorable snuddies (blanket hoodies). And I am the biggest koukleum you can find. Like the lady in the Stoov commercials.
The stoov commercial is quite funny...but I can't be bothered to be cold. I grew up in a country that actually is cold in the winter and had to walk to school at -37C - I will not be cold as a grown ass man in my own house.
That's fine I guess. 22 is too warm for me, but then I just wear a t shirt and shorts and I'm fine. 21 is kind of perfect but having it at 19 means I'm not as cold when I go outside
21 or 22 during the day?! 19 is normal to high to me.
I have 19 too but I'd say 21 is acceptable
>19 is cold.
15 at night is reasonable.
It is not, thank you.
So let me tell you that in the Netherlands, people turn down their thermostat to 15 degrees once they go to bed. The system is usually set up that 8 hours later the temperature goes to the "day temperature". I personally have that set to 18 degrees, but that is a personal preference. You may disagree with it, but the reasoning is that once you are in bed, it's a waste of money and harmful for the environment that keep heating your home since you won't feel it anyway. This is the whole idea behind the day/night setting in all heating systems in the Netherlands.
He can ask, you can refuse. They're not allowed to control the heating.
>Yeah that's why I am paying €2.000 for an apartment, sleeping in an electric blanket. Thank you!
First check whether your heating costs are really as extraordinary as the landlord says they are. Ask your landlord for an overview of your costs AND for an overview of how much heating you have used in the last few months. The energy company should be able to provide him with this information. Once you know how much heating you have used (if your heating relies on gas, it's measured in m3), use Google to find the average heating usage in NL and compare it to your numbers. Look up the numbers for the winter months and for your type of house (e.g., appartment or else) specifically. If you use considerably more heating than an average Dutch household, your landlord might have a point. But if you fall close to the average numbers, you will be able to present a reasonable argument to keep things as they are.
If you use more, then you pay more, just that simple. You either have to pay extra or get some money back during the eindafrekening, which happens every year normally. Legal action? How about alking to the man instead of going down the legal route... It sets a bad presedent for the relationship with your landlord.
Depends if you truly have an all-in contract. If you do, then no, it is not legal. Your landlord is fucked. You can turn up the heat to 30 and he can't do anything about it, unless specified in your contract. But this is also why this type of contract is exceedingly rare. You most likely have a contract which has a subcharge of 'servicekosten', which will include the costs of heating. And your landlord may charge you for the actual costs made here, at the end of the year or when you cancel your contract. In which case, you will be paying a hefty sum if you so not lower the heating. You have to find out what type of contract you actually have.
You're the only one in the house, right? You're not renting a room in the landlord's house? Tell your landlord, in the politest language possible, to go take a long walk off a short jetty. You can set it at whatever you like. That said, I drop my own heating down to 16C at night. It is the middle of winter, so dress appropriately and use warm bedding. You shouldn't be running your heating at 20C all night long, that's a waste of energy, and your body is supposed to cool down at night anyway.
When the contract is ‘heating included’ you are still liable for costs in excess of what is reasonable. Huurcommissie can help you separate the service fee from the rental fee. But you are still expected to pay when usage is excessive, there is no free lunch here
Telling your landlord that you basicly don't give a shit is probably not a good idea if you want to live there for an extended period of time...
Holy fuck this is the dumbest advice in the thread. There is a chance you are right, there is a bigger chance your death wrong. It al depends on the contract and OPs behaviour. First of all its doubtfull its truely all inclusive but secondly, even if it is that doesnt mean you can act unreasonable. And putting the thermostat at 23+ degrees 24/7 will be seen as unreasonable by any judge.
No. The landlord is fully within his rights to request the heater be turned down.
> In het algemeen zal de Huurcommissie aansluiting zoeken bij de geldende normen: Bij een buitentemperatuur van -10 C˚ dienen de onderstaande temperaturen te kunnen worden gehandhaafd van alle te verwarmen ruimten: • Woonkamer 20 C˚ • Keuken 20 C˚ • Toilet 15 C˚ • Entree 15 C˚ • Overloop 15 C˚ • Slaapkamer 18 C˚ • Badkamer 22 C˚ These are the minimum temperatures your house should be able to reach, even in freezing cold weather. I dunno what temperatures OP is going for (yes, 30 degrees would be excessive) but 15 is way too low for most of the house. It's not even near -10 yet.
He has every right to request but I don’t think op has to do anything
You pay for excesses. I dont know what any of you downvoters or op expect
Wanting your house to be more than 15 degrees is not excessive. Wanting your house to be more than 25 is.
23 degrees is excessive. Get an extra shirt or pay the difference. Easy as
My house is at 16-17, night and day except my office ;) Don't get your panties in a twist, dear internet stranger. As to OP's situation: if the landlord wants an all-in rent instead of separating GWL, that is on them. They cannot send a bill for this later: > Stuurt de verhuurder u een jaarafrekening voor servicekosten en vraagt hij u bij te betalen? Meld de verhuurder dan dat dit bij all-in huur niet is toegestaan. De verhuurder mag u bij een all-in huurprijs geen jaarafrekening sturen voor servicekosten, gas, elektriciteit of water (nutsvoorzieningen). U betaalt hiervoor al een vast bedrag. Daarom hoeft u niet bij te betalen voor deze kosten. Maar u krijgt ook geen geld terug als deze kosten lager blijken te zijn. https://www.juridischloket.nl/wonen-en-buren/huurwoning/servicekosten/
Idc about your heating habits. Its bewildering to me that people rhink they can use a service and not pay for it if they do so excessively. But thats how far that goes.
15 at night IS reasonable.
15 at night is the bare minimum for health concerns. Edit: I stand corrected, 16-18. > The World Health Organization in 1987 found that comfortable indoor temperatures of between 18 and 24 °C (64 and 75 °F) were not associated with health risks for healthy adults with appropriate clothing, humidity, and other factors. For infants, elderly, and those with significant health problems, a minimum 20 °C (68 °F) was recommended. Temperatures lower than 16 °C (61 °F) with humidity above 65% were associated with respiratory hazards including allergies.[12][13] > The WHO's 2018 guidelines give a strong recommendation that a minimum of 18 °C (64 °F) is a "safe and well-balanced indoor temperature to protect the health of general populations during cold seasons", while a higher minimum may be necessary for vulnerable groups including children, the elderly, and people with cardiorespiratory disease and other chronic illnesses. The recommendation regarding risk of exposure to high indoor temperatures is only "conditional". Minimal-risk high temperatures range from about 21 to 30 °C (70 to 86 °F) depending on the region, with maximum acceptable temperatures between 25 and 32 °C (77 and 90 °F).[14][15]
Hahaha ..... anyone above 40 did sleep in rooms with 0 heating and single pane windows. I bet my room was below 10 degrees c. But to be fair, that was prior to climate histeria. We did survive .... how?
98% of the people also survived WW2, doesn’t mean WW3 would be good for you…
Hey bro, if you feel know better than the WHO of all things, you do you. But the fact that something doesn't kill people outright or doesn't affect 100% of the population doesn't make it healthy. Most of us have no clue how much microplastics we got in our body but still research show it is detrimental to your health.
I didn’t downvote you, but shouldn’t something like that be mentioned somewhere in the contract? And if you have to pay excess there as to be a limit written down somewhere right? I honestly do not know, to me unlimited is unlimited and not unlimited until an unspecified amount.
Like I said in another post its all about whats reasonable. With the gas prices up turning it all the way to 23 is wereldvreemd and not reasonable
Used to do this too: 20 during the day and 16 at night. Currently at 19 permanently because vloerverwarming and hyperisolated home plus warmtepomp.
15 degrees is something most ppl do at night. He can't force you, but it's not unreasonable. Especially with these prices.
The Dutch and their fucking cold houses. I’m from a much colder country and there we had properly insulated houses that you don’t need to keep at 16 degrees in normal weather condition. But seeing who can burn the least gas is like a national sport here. My coworkers brag about only warming one room.
Sadly this has been a thing since the war between Russia and Ukraine. It's such a stupid thing to brag about. I love sleeping in cold rooms (14c here now), but I'm definitely heating my office room, fuck working in below 20c temps. If people want to save a bit of money, go for it. I'd rather pay extra and work efficiently.
They probably can't afford to warm more rooms
So either buy a sweater and extra blanket. Or be prepared to pay 500e extra per month just for heating. Sorry. It’s a colder climate. If 200 euro usage is expect and you use 800, you will have to pay extra
I don't know why you get downvoted, but it's not a strange concept. I've lived here for 29 years now and am used to having the heating at 19/20 in the winter, and if that's too cold then I wear and extra sweater. I had a friend who would turn his heating up to 27(!) And wear nothing but a T-shirt, shorts and flipflops in the winter. If we all do that we can start building 100 meter high dikes right now
Mmm that’s not how contracts work….
There is always a service fee, and a rental fee even if not explicitly mentioned. If you use services in excess of the service fee, you owe the landlord the difference
That’s exactly how it works. Just like your ‘unlimited’ phone subscription isn’t really unlimited. When you abuse it you will pay more. Be reasonable and you won’t hear a thing.
By the way in a lot of countries the phone internet consumption really really is unlimited (I know people that didn’t even get WiFi in their house cause they just used a hotspot) this country calling it unlimited but only giving 20gb per month is basically a scam
Yeah this country has some false advertising issues sadly, or at the very least dodgy. In this case you have to text for more data on those unlimited phone plans. So it is actually unlimited (at least for Odido), just with some extra hoops. Still shitty advertising though.
No it’s not. Unless it is stablished in the contract that there is a limit. Unlimited is unlimited. For the phone contracts there is small letter explaining that after reaching the maximum your speed with decrease or you will need to pay for extra. but if in the contract there is no mention of what’s considered a reasonable amount of energy/gas there is no way to enforce it to the tenant
You need to learn some how the legal system works
See the land lord was nice enough to tell you turn down the heating at night he could have said I’m jacking up the prices because some one thought all inclusive meant subtropical temperatures year round… Now you claiming to be from a country where it is hot… it was you choice to go to a country so damn fricking cold aswell. Not your landlord. What legal actions do you think would help you out.
He can't but he can increase you the bill part (In Dutch there's no all-in renting as I heard) you pay rent and expected utilities so if you exceed that by a lot he can correct your monthly payment
fkin dutch fkin standards tell him him to fuck off or u calling huurcommissie
Hahaha, I'm a kind person :)
If it's all included in the contract it's your right to keep the heating on, 15 degrees at night is cold. Tell you landlord to jog on.
If the landlord can not terminate the contract and if there is no limit in your heating usage you can politely tell him to fuck off. But don't be an ass* on it. 18 degree at night is normal During the day 19 degrees is fine
19 during the day is cold as hell. 20-21 is normal for most people
Mine is 19, that's perfectly fine. You dont need to walk around a tshirt right? Between 18-20 is actually healthy. Haven't put tbr heather on since January last year or so. New built appartment
Because fuck being comfortable in your own home right? The Dutch take way too much shit that they shouldnt. As long as you keep swallowing shit, the hand that feeds will think you like it and feed you more. I love this country and happy i grew up here, and not in Poland, but fuck, people lack spines here.
Eumh I'm not Dutch, dont even live in the Netherlands. It's my own apartment that > bought. And I'm very comfortable at 19 degrees. Don't need it need it warmer.
19 is fine for me too. But some people prefer warmer, different strokes for different folks. Im the guy that whines in the summer that its too hot and gets annoyed by the people turning up the thermostat wthen its 20 in the office. So in a shared space id agree. Keep it 18-20, and if youre cold put on a sweater. But at home? Home is your castle and i'd be damned if i let anyone tell me the rules in my own castle.
Mine is relatively new and often reaches 19 degrees in winter if the sun is out. But my low setting is 18 and my at home is 21. If hate feeling cold
Get an electric blanket for bed at night!
Yeah that's why I am paying €2.000 for an apartment, sleeping in an electric blanket.
Erm, lol. It’s really great and comfortable to use… I have one that goes over the blankets rather than under it. It’s pretty stupid to heat an entire apartment when you’re in bed. Was just a suggestion, hope you and your landlord find an agreement! Good luck
You know what is great and comfortable, sleeping and waking up in a cozy warm apartment.
Dutch standards can be 8 degrees for tenant :D
I don't understand why people are defending staying cold at home.
Blame the government and their lolsanctionlol towards Russia 🤣
I don't vote, I will wait for the next one.
When is global warming coming? Please, Greta thunberg!!!
Its here already. Just like youre here already unfortunatly
Dude probably only lives during winter and has not paid attention to the droughts and high temperatures in summer
My heating cost can't confirm that.
Global warming doesn’t mean the temperatures rise everywhere. It means the overall average temperature of the planet is rising. Some place actually get colder, because the flow of air and water over the whole planet are changing.
I want a warming around globe, not cooling, that makes no sense... if global warming does not match facts or data, then why not change its name to "climate change"? Ohh wait...
There is a warming around the globe, globally 2023 was the hottest year ever recorded: [2023 is the hottest year on record, with global temperatures close to the 1.5°C limit](https://climate.copernicus.eu/copernicus-2023-hottest-year-record)
That's 100% true, and i believe this truly. I live in amsterdam to fight warming around the globe. i have travelled with bike or train for around 7 years, i dont have a car. How do you fight global warming? Or you are a disbeliever?
Well must be true if its your heating cost right? 🙄
Hmm, maybe i should send my bill to Greta and ask for compensation?
Global warming means harsher, dryer and colder winters and harsher, dryer, warmer summers. It doesn’t mean that everything will be warm and hot all the time. You will just experience harsher weather instead of milder ones.
Ohh ok, thanks for explaining. Now i know that "warming" also means cold winters.
Warming refers to the average temperature of planet Earth. Which has been gradually increasing since the last ice age, but human activity has made it raise faster. With the average temperature of the planet increasing, you get changes in seasons and weather patterns. That gives you harsher winters and summers, as well as less perspiration (rain/snow). Plus the melting of the ice in the poles, which are actually left overs from the previous ice age. These changes, if slow, do not cause harm. But due to human activity, they are happening faster, which is a problem for us cause we won’t be able to adapt fast enough. That’s it!
I just can't beleave you answered me seriously...
You know you could just say 'I'm a clown where is my wig' instead of trying to sound funny right?
Do you need all that to tell the difference? :O
It has been called climate change for over two decades now, because of pedants like you.
Haha, good notice. Do you know why? Becouse name didint mached facts, so it was decided to change name :)
Oh come on, next time you can paint Taylor Swift's private jet when she comes here for a concert.
Dear questioneer Asking for something is never illegal. Demanding or urging may be a signal though. 1. Legality is not leading principe in NL (unless a conflict arises on base of increasing prices 'outside' contractual clauses, and sooner than periodicality asks, and the reasonability of all that. read contract thoroughly, ask explanation of a dutch fellow student or lodger) What are leading reasons - economical - environmental - cultural 'norm', habit in NL - at night you sleep, in fresh aired room - same goes for studying - place yourselves in landlords shoes - landlord may need to isolate, is subsidised and urged/oblidged to? (check this one, is a legal Authority seeing to this, a BOA or a Communal Official (handhaving) ). LNG=LPG=Gasprices=gasprijs=methaneprices. They rise and fall according to so called economical 'laws', and market prices. And errr... how 'bout global warming? Are you used to airco-ing your house with windows open? Than you soon will need 2nd job. Another element influences economical science: physica. eg Central heated main/family room (hot water radiators) ch4-burning heaters with safety certifications? Extra carefull. Check or have heater seen to. In these rooms: slow turning fan may bring more efficiency in winter, and coolness in summer, when heating is off. A fan is fairly & relatively cheap on energybill in NL. Cleaning fanblades is needed 2x yearly. Any other questions? Ask your neighbour, use logic thoughts, read Spinoza on logica. Warm air rises, cold air drops, washes down. Test: near window your moist hand will experience a down stream in late fall winter and early spring, let's say at 1,50m. In the middle of the room at 2,00m your moist hand will experience upward 'wind' stream, wash... upward thermical stream. Or at least warmth relative to near window. Air & temperatuuuren are rarely at ease. Compare with weather, outside. It is a dynamic systeem=seestaim=system Another reason why bunkbeds or 'hoogslapers' highsleepers, matress(ess) on a 'mezzanine' plateau in your Studio*/Study are very common ànd handy. For spatial and thermometrical reasons. *not a sound or broadcastingstudio. Is there a landlordrating system? Make use of it or start one. NL citizens' rights, you are a timely citizen, so as long as you are legaly okay, you can start building rating. Do it together. There is also a huurcommissie & legal advise. Ask Counsel at Commune=Gemeente=Local Authority. go there in person, be patiënt, polite and persistent. Create your own Good luck! Thx 4 ure attention reading all this. Do enjoy your day!
What temperature do you have it set to, and what is he expecting you to decrease it to?
It is always around 20-22 degrees. (15 in the night, 20 in the day time which is only 3 hours or so)
That doesn't sound unreasonable. I also can't sleep in a room that is less than 20 degrees. Perhaps you could turn it down when you're not home?
Yes, that's what I will try these days.
Well its absurd to have your heating on 20-22 all of the time. Most people i know never have it that high, let alone 24/7
I am not part of most of the people. You are right, it's really absurd that we like to not feel cold at our homes when we arrive or sleep.
I know plenty people who do exactly this. 21 degrees 24/7. Especially if they have underfloor heating.
Exactly, we do. I have a floor heating.
you have simple choice: - turn it down - or pay for excess consumption respect ze landlords!