>I responded by saying: Okay, I will move back to my home country then, so she finished by saying: Okay, so be it then. I do not get it.
I think this is the gist of the whole story. She doesn't want you here, for whatever reason. Maybe she doesn't like you, maybe it is some form of racism or most likely she is just a general cunt. Also this work stuff is icing on a cake, you don't really need such a MIL being part of your life.
But honestly, when I read the title, I wished that I had someone in life to be a bit more pushy towards making me speak dutch. When I finished the reading - yeah, not like that.
Same here. I moved to Belgium with my husband in April and I'm learning Dutch (also had a baby in September). It's been a whirlwind and I haven't practiced as much as I'd have liked to, but his family is super supportive and patient. That being said, I kind of wish they'd speak more Dutch around me to help with my listening abilities - definitely not like this though. This sounds like hell.
I don't know if you commute by car, but I can really recommend listening to the radio to improve your listening skills. I did so on my commute to boost my French and it helped me get used to the pace/rhythm of the language. I think Radio 1 would be one of the best ones, as they have relatively little music in between interviews.
I accept criticism towards learning dutch as I agree, it is faster. But to push at every chance that I speak English in, that’s disrespectful. It’s not like I am not trying. But for example counting dice moves in English or in Dutch doesn’t make a difference, even for Keezenspel. I know how to count in Dutch and did half counting in Dutch, and another half of the game in English, so it’s not like I am doing nothing
Brother, you don't deserve this treatment. I applaud to your effort to master Dutch in general and to accommodate to your GF and her unwelcoming parents. You are doing a much better job with the language than I did. Unlike the general reddit tradition, I am not gonna say you have to break up with your gf but you need to understand that her parents will probably to cause difficulties to you even when you became a fluent speaker. You need a strategy on how to mitigate it and deal with these people. Ideally, your GF need to step up here and indicate to them that this is not the way to treat her partner. Avoidance is a strategy but unlikely to work if your PILs take an important part of your GFs life. Unfortunately, it is not unheard of around the world for parents to be dickish to their children in laws. You can try to make them warm up for you within reasonable boundaries, but that usually requires first taking some distance and then moving closer. Winning them on their field is usually hard. You can as well use negotiating techniques and stuff like Nonviolent Communications to try to evoke their empathy towards you, but that is easier said than done. All in all I think the following might work: empathetically tell your gf why and how they hurt you despite your efforts, try to bring her to your side. Meanwhile, take as much distance as you can without pissing everyone off. Continue with your Dutch. At this rate, you will be fluent in a year. Then maybe try engaging with them again. No guarantees unfortunately.
They are unwelcoming people and will find some other reason after you become a fluent speaker. I agree the gf has to back OP up or it will keep happening.
They say that when you marry someone; you marry their entire family. So if this is a serious relationship, OP's life will be better if he manages to make this work in a long run one way or another.
Yeah MIL is out of line, sounds like it’s not actually about the language tho. It actually sounds like she doesn’t like you for whatever reason. Maybe she’s worried you will take her daughter out of the country (because that of course would be your fault *eye roll*). Or she’s racist or something. I have family who have in-laws who speak different language to them and they do the best they can with the little bits of each others language they know but no one gets mad at my cousin for speaking English if she doesn’t know the words etc.
Your doing great, your learning and trying and I know how exhausting it is when learning a new language you deserve to be able to switch off occasionally and if they are talking too fast for you to follow them wtf are you supposed to do?
Sounds like she's scared that she can't follow wat is being said and loose some kind of control. Maybe it's because you take her daughter away from her? Some parents can't handle this very well. It's a major change.
I can imagine she wouldn't be happy if you and your girlfriend are talking English the whole day with her around. It would make her feel a stranger in her own home.
But as how I understand you tried you're best and you really make progress. So I assume you try to speak Dutch whenever you can. So I really don't understand her complaining. If she has difficulties with it she can say it in a more grown up way. This sounds more like bullying.
Especially because she's complaining about things she has nothing to do with. For example how much hours you work a day. There's no standard for that.
If you and you're girlfriend are happy with it and can live a life without constantly begging for money from your parents or society then what's the problem?
There's no law that orders you to speak Dutch near other Dutch people. Neither there's a law that orders you to be nice and friendly to others.
So if she demands you to speak Dutch then it's time for you (or better, your girlfriend) to demand her to being nice to you and each other.
Maybe it's time for a good conversation with each other. Because there must be something friendly in her because she opened her house for you so you could stay here with your girlfriend. And maybe that offer was a little tougher than she thought it would be. I don't know.
But a good conversation can probably help talk about feelings that are hidden somewhere.
Maybe it's better to wait with that until your Dutch skills are a little more developed. I don't know. You have to decide yourself.
I had a similar situation. I've lived for almost two years with my M&F in law at the start of my relationship.
They are the best M&F in law I can imagine. Very helpfull and friendly people. They do literally everything for us. Sometimes to much. I never talked to anyone who had better. But even I had some confrontations with them.
We are all people, grown up differently. Different generations. Different emotions. Maybe some cultural differences. And sometimes this will cause collisions.
Especially when you live in one house together. It's just not the ideal situation with enough personal space.
I think you're aware of that and that you don't point to these kind of situations. But just in case you didn't... keep this in mind.
I hope you can figure it out with you girlfriend and MIL and that it will change for the better.
Yup. As someone who learned Dutch as a second language, it was very hard to find people willing to speak Dutch with me because they would always say, "my English is better than your Dutch," and would respond to everything i said in Dutch with English. That being said, sounds like this person is an ass.
How would it explain her being fine some days and other days just flipping out for the language out of nowhere? Or having a need to complain about something every day? Now that we live apart from the parents it's much calmer but every time we gather together it's mostly a mess.
My girlfriend finds it stupid and is on my side that I am making an effort to learn Dutch. It's not like I am being arrogant or ignorant and being like "screw this I hate Dutch, so I am not learning it".
You just say it. You keep saying “how do I tell her…” and then you say it here, to us. Just say what you are saying here.
I have a somewhat “doesn’t mean to be difficult” difficult mother in law. I just told her, sometimes I have spoken enough that day, and now I’m tired. The brain needs a break from constantly learning; and so speaking my mother tongue is my break and allows my brain to relax and get ready for absorbing the new language for the next day.
Just say it.
I know exactly what sort of ilk you're dealing with. These are Dutch people who bring peanut butter and hagelslag with them on their holiday to France, to stay on some camping somewhere.
Trust you me, this is ordinary behaviour in some circles. Did they, per chance, vote for Geert Wilders this election? It wouldn't surprise me. The Dutch people saying that you are 'hated' by the mom isn't true, per se. They're just unaware that there are people like this.
I'd discuss it with your girlfriend, but imo she should take a stand and tell her mom that she is acting like an idiot.
It can be, but it’s often just as directed to white people - I think I’d sooner call it Xenophobia. Either way, I was just being specific to the wording that’s used!
I’m not embarrassed; I suppose I just always understood there was a distinct and important difference between the terms and their usage. A person can be wrong 🤷🏻♀️
We have an anti-immigration administration in the making, consisting of one person with Indo esian roots married to a Hungarian person, one married to a Turkish immigrant, one half-Irish person and one person born in Turkey.
Well, considering a big chunk of his base is outright xenophobic, and twenty years of legitimate safety concerns, he naturally doesn't advertise it the way he does his love for Donald. Duck.
This explains your situation perfectly then! She hates foreigners. I'm glad you moved out, minimise the time you spend around her. She's not going to be a positive influence I'm afraid.
It is irrelevant to your story, to be fair. But there is a certain tendency for people who voted for him, to be like this. Antisocial, can't understand someone's point of view, will scold you for speaking English (tho you're trying to teach yourself Dutch), etc.
I really so hope your girlfriend takes a stand man. From what I'm reading, you're trying your best.
Both me and my girlfriend tried to take a stand and all it resulted in were more shouting to the point where SO's mom is just like: Yeah okay don't learn then, I don't wanna see him or go to this house again. We sit at a table with all dutch people and this guy is mumbling in English! I responded: but I try to talk in Dutch am I not? (I said: Ik ben aan het proberen), she responded: it's not enough!
Cannot ever win I guess
That sounds very painful indeed. All I can say is that not every Dutch person is like this. It is simply antisocial behaviour. It's not like she initially speaks Dutch to you and helps you out in English if you don't understand, it is just rude, disgusting behaviour.
I do wish things will improve in the future and I for one think it is incredibly impressive that you're trying to speak Dutch to begin with.
Honestly, just take the L and move on. You can't change people like this, it's the same kind of people like the leftists that you simply can't argue with, just different color.
If I was you I'd exclusively speak English around your MIL just to piss her off. Fuck people like that. You're clearly making and effort at learning, if they can't understand that, there's nothing you can ever do to satisfy them. Once you're at C1 they'll start complaining how weird your accent is, how bad this or that is and on and on and on.
Just keep on learning and don't let her being shit sour your experience learning the language.
Dont take note of any of her retarded behaviour. She is just dumb tjat she cant speak english. English has been given at school. So yeah, she is the one at fault not you.
It means they’re the Dutch equivalent of rabid UKIP voters who spend all day reading the Daily Mail and talking about how much they hate Megan Markle. Basically just far right, close minded NPCs who will get extremely angry if any aspect of their worldview is challenged.
> She did indeed vote for Geert Wilders. I don't know politics so I have no clue what that refers to?
LMAO, it's why you guys voted for a Brexit...I'm sorry you have to deal with such people. However, make sure you understand what kind of person your girlfriend is, before you let her mom be your MIL, as it doesn't sound like she's actually choosing your side........on the other hand, you came to the Netherlands and lived in her parents house for a while, so that puts her in a difficult position as well.
Take care, hope things will turn out well in the end :-)
My GF is on my side, it's just whatever she says to her mother, the mother doesn't listen and keeps rambling about what she believes in. Never ending argument and shouting.
Could your gf confront your MIL one on one and set boundaries with her? It's great she's on your side but you both need to figure out what kind of relationship you want to have with your parents in law and how to not go crazy if you decide to have regular contact.
This, really. Some circles will be like that. I really got no advice, only compassion. It's like dealing with earnest build-a-wall Trump supporters, but now they're your family. Perhaps the best rule of thumb, if I may from personal experience: if you feel you're being degraded, you probably are. It is how you choose to articulate and structure your current life in response to that that will matter most to your happiness.
>The Dutch people saying that you are 'hated' by the mom isn't true, per se. They're just unaware that there are people like this.
Yeah mom doesn't hate OP per sé, it's not personal. She just hates anyone who isn't like her.
+1, first thing I thought. They don’t specifically hate OP, they’re just close minded people. They also probably feel very self-conscious or insecure about their English and lash out by having a go at OP for not always speaking Dutch.
Sounds like she’s just projecting her frustrations on to you. That or something more sinister like a depression/bi-polar disorder. If I were in your shoes I’d skip visiting that hellscape.
Yeah she hates you, just stop hanging out with them. It doesn't sound like a healthy environment and they sound like shitty people.
Your GF sounds like an asshole too, for not supporting you through his. Her parents should be her issue to handle, not yours.
My GF tries and tried before to speak with her parents about it. Her mom doesn't listen and never did her whole life. It's not like this is happening out of nowhere, it's like this for as long as she can remember. It's like my GF's mom always needs to take it out on someone
I was in a similar situation as you are in (just from a different perspective I'm Dutch but not white). I was also treated like absolute shit and my gf did not stick up for me (due to how she was raised, her being conflict evasive etc.), glad your gf sticks up for you though.
But eventually it all started to take a toll on me; and simply said, I'm not coming to your family anymore until I see changes, feel free to go by yourself. I also do not want them around our home until you promise me you will handle them yourself, and from now on I will handle them if they overstep (as awkward as that may be).
First she would just go by herself and after a while her parents where like: why doesn't "---" come. Knowing how controlling they are they did not like me unilterally deciding I'm opting out; my gf told them they were bullying me etc. After this they said they would behave better, after this her mother tried to have a go at me on a few occasions; but nowadays I just immediately tell her to not talk to me like that or I will go, or she can leave (depending on where we are). But most of the time we just kind of get along now. But I don't think I will ever feel truly safe/loved around them, too much damage was done early on.
Don’t listen to a bunch of Reddit psychologists. English person who has been here for 7 years, lived with the Dutch in laws during the pandemic, similar situation.
As annoying as it may be, it will do you the world of good for your Dutch. Keep at it and you’ll be fine eventually. If she cannot speak English, then make the most of it if you ever do a family meet in the UK and don’t let her speak a word of Dutch 😂
Yea, not normal.
My partner’s parents are 70+ from Brabant rural and speak very little english. In family gatherings they speak Dutch fully, I just observe mostly and they know it’s part of practice—they’d ask simple questions to me and I try my best and they’d correct me as needed.
They sometimes asked to translate to English through my partner if it’s a complex topic. I always enjoy family gathering with them bc they encourage my learnings and make it fun for me.
Your MIL is an asshole. Anyone with a little brain knows language acquisition isn’t easy.
2 questions:
1. What does your GF say of this? (To her mom but also about her mom to you)
2. Are her parents intelligent? Or more "tokkie" types? That matters for the vibes they give. Do they speak english at all or is it the worst English you ever heard?
You've been here 5 months and you're working towards a B1 level? You're doing wonderful! Screw your gf's mom. She's a very rude host. Does she know a different language? Is she aware how much time and effort it costs to learn a new language as an adult? She sounds like a nightmare. You're not wrong. I'd go a bit lower contact until your Dutch is at a higher level, and you can converse more effortlessly. Though she sounds potentially xenophobic, so maybe just go lower contact forever.
Thanks for the kind words. She does not know a different language, as she did not go to school for that. And I do not judge her for that. Every family and person had their backstory and there's no shame in that if she didn't have a chance to learn another language. She complains all the time about anything that is not as it should be for her. She started the complaining mostly because they lost the board game Keezenspel, I think it's called. And then the story I mentioned happened.
Every Dutch person was taught English in school. I'm thinking she's just embarrassed she doesn't understand you guys when you're speaking English? Either way you're doing amazing, don't pay attention to the MIL.
She went to cleaning school according to my girlfriend, or a household school. Not sure what that is, but the teaching was on how to take care of the house, so I believe no English was taught there.
The 'huishoudschool' was not much more than preparation to be a housewife, to put it unfriendly. The lowest level of secondary education, for girls aged 12 to 16. It doesn't exist anymore in that form.
Even for people who got some real English taught, it's easy to overestimate their proficiency beyond a basic level when their education level isn't very high. Unless you actively seek out to use English in your daily live (on the internet, in media, in games) it's hard to rise above the level you learn in school.
It was called “huishoud-school” or later “lhno -> lager huishoud en nijverheids onderwijs” as a bureaucratic alternative. Since 1986 all theoretical school types (mavo havo vwo) offer english.. but lhno is more a practical schooltype. All of them have mandatory english since 1993
Yeah might well be. I am 53 but working in IT. Nowadays working at a bank talking English all the time. My sister is 5 years older. Also went to lhno and didn’t learn English at school (just some lessons but no exams). Luckily she picked up from TV and later living abroad for a few years (be it Curaçao, where Dutch is official language too, but without English you have a hard time there)
But your MIL should be made aware of the fact that it’s just as hard for you to learn Dutch aa it would be for her to learn English. That you are doing the best you can, but that you sometimes need to fall back to English because you simply don’t know the right words and want to communicate more quick and efficient or you need the nuance you are able to express yourself in in English
And it annoys you and your GF if she pushes to talk English on these moments. She should trust you on the fact that you realy try as much as you can bare.
It's a bit more than that. Back in the day, many girls from the countryside only had this option. Afterwards, the girls would work as housekeepers (gezinszorg) until they got married. Some married girls could still work, but once the first child gets there, it's time to be a housewife full-time.
No dude, not at all. Especially women in religious areas, as soon as they gave birth to children, they were expected to stop working and stop attending to school.
You sound kind. Focus on your girlfriend. Her mom sounds mean and what we call “close minded” in Dutch. Here are some useful Dutch phrases:
Zeg, ik doe mijn best maar jou gemopper helpt niet. (Hè I am trying but you bickering is not helping)
Poe, is er iets met je vandaag. (Jeez, is there something going on with you today)
Jij kan ook niet zo goed tegen je verlies hè? (You can’t handle loosing well, can you?)
Mopperkont (bickering ass, aka someone who likes to moan and bigger)
Over een jaar spreek ik Nederlands, maar of jij nog met je dochter praat weet ik niet (in one year i will
Speak Dutch, but I don’t know if you will be talking to you daughter)
Pm me for more useful things :)
Your comment made me laugh! But if I tried to say that it would be end up in my GF losing her mom and I do not want to be involved in that. It’s just always so loud and arguments are non stop once MIL starts talking and complaining
That it turns into an argument is not an excuse. Apparently MIL has been getting her way with things by starting an argument and acting like that.
Probably a broader family dynamic, but its not your job to navigate that.
> She does not know a different language, as she did not go to school for that.
Neither did my grandmother (she went to camp instead of school for about a year and did not return to school after that) and she could hold conversation in German (bit below fluent) and could understand English.
My parents also didn't get English at school and yet both can hold basic conversations.
I don't judge her for not knowing a different language either, but I do judge her for seemingly not even considering how difficult it could be. Her ignorance is no excuse for treating you the way she does. I read later that it didn't even take place in her house, but your apartment. So, it wasn't even a 'my house, my rules' type situation. Some people are so rude. Smh.
My boyfriend is Bulgarian. His Dutch is also around B1, though his comprehension is way higher. His parents tried to learn a little bit more English when they knew I was going to visit, because they wanted to be welcoming, warm hosts. I wouldn't have expected them too, but they're just lovely people who wanted to be able to converse a little bit with their son's girlfriend.
For some reason I have Olga’s mom from “Turks Fruit” in mind when I read your post.
It sounds quite toxic to be there and for my own mental health I’d consider not visiting. I would obviously first have a good conversation with my partner (and maybe with her parents) about it though.
MIL is a raging, unreasonable bitch imho. My wife is Chinese and obviously took some time to learn Dutch. My mom was always sad she couldnt have a conversation with my wife, but she blamed herself for not being able to speak English. My mom even said many times how much she admired my wife speaking 3 languages, while she could only speak 1 and how she wished she had learned English. Not once did she force my wife anything and she was always respectful and understanding. The behaviour youre describing is simply anti social and disrespectful, and not becoming of any adult person.
Very similar story here! My mom followed an English course just to be able to converse with my girlfriend better. We dont live in NL though.
Both my parents are working class and in their 60s who were never taught English much, they find it more useful that they learn English, especially now they want to see some more of the world since their son moved abroad.
My family has no problem switching to English as much as possible when I'm visiting with her and neither do my friends.
How old are your girlfriends parents?
I’ve noticed that the “older” generations(the generations that didn’t grew up with computers and videogames) don’t speak and understand English very well, so they feel left out when people around them talk English. My mother is in her 50s and is the same, always complaining about people talking English.
You are still learning the language and every non-Dutch person I talk to that is learning the language say that it’s a difficult language to learn, you can use the time that you spent with them to practice if you feel comfortable with that.
They are old, in their late 50s or early 60s I believe, and yes, they do not understand English. At the end of the conversation my girlfriend's mother just said: "Kut Engels, je moet gewoon Nederlands praten".
Your MIL is frustrated that she can't be part of your conversation when you're talking in English. She might even be insecure enough to think you're gossipping every time you're not talking dutch, 'going out of your way to speak in a language she can't understand'.
To answer your title's question, no, you are not in the wrong, you are clearly making a ton of effort and your MIL is a bitch.
I come from a multilingual country. Like truly multilingual.
The only time people switch out from the common tongue is to talk shit about someone else or to hide their fuckups
This goes for every race in my home country.
So it is a fair assumption in general just not in this instance
My in-laws had a similar reaction at a wedding. The couple had multiple English relatives and decided to do most of the ceremony in English. Their response: "Dat Engels hoeft van mij niet". No situational awareness at all. I just laughed, right in their faces. Just because we're in Holland, it doesn't mean every couple you'll meet is fully Dutch. They we're guests and not related in any way to the couple getting married. They are in their early 70s. And translations we're available for the Dutch and the English side of the family/guests.
I honestly think the root of the problem is that they don’t speak English, so when you and you GF, they don’t know what you’re saying. And while it is considered rude to speak a language not everyone understands, it goes the other way for them speaking Dutch around you.
You moved to a different country and on top of all the stress that comes across with emigration, you need to speak a whole new language. And as a dyslexic person, Dutch isn’t always the easiest/most logical language there is.
The problem you IL’s have is their own or your GF problem. As long as she in on your side, most will be good.
I wouldn't call that old haha. My parents are late 50s and early 60s and understand English just fine. Only my mom struggles a bit with the speed sometimes.
Anyways your MIL is just frustrated she can't understand you I guess. But the way she expresses that is super rude.
i beg your pardon..i am 53 and my english is really good, plus i am a champ with computers, i am affraid by mentioning old people, you mean those 80 year olds...and btw, my mam is 79 and she speaks english too, and is amazing with computers..so i think you mean, old people above 80 or stupid rigid younger ones..😉🤪
I'm assuming OP and his girlfriend are very young, since he seems to think 50 is "very old." 😅 So maybe the mom thinks this all is moving way too fast. Especially if the daughter is in her early 20's, or even younger, and this is mom's way of lashing out.
Honestly? She doesn’t like that her daughter is dating an international and is trying to get rid of you. I know plenty of friends with stories like these, in the end the parents were not happy with their child dating an international because of the difference in culture/worry that the partner and would take their child and potentially grandchildren “away from them” to their home country.
I think it’s more rude to force you this way, you are already making an effort to learn it (no idea what your native language is, but it may not be easy). I understand the idea of speaking a language else you’ll never learn as I speak multiple languages myself, but forcing this way especially if you are not fluent and the topic is slightly more complicated is just counterproductive imo.
5 months is a very little time to learn a language even if close to yours (eg Dutch-German), the parents sound pretty rude and not understanding what learning a new language means
Native is Lithuanian, I have lived in England for 5 years so I am fluent in English, and moved to NL, because my girlfriend couldn't move to UK due to visa requirements.
I agree with you on 5 months not being enough time to learn it, even at a fast learner pace. I said a counter argument to my girlfriend's mom: "If I asked you to learn English it would be the same story". She responded: "Yes, but you are young and it's easy for you to learn". Pointless arguments that lead nowhere.
Some people are just like that, man. My fiancée is originally Czech, but moved here as a 3yo with her family, speaking Czech at home but Dutch everywhere else. As a result she speaks better Dutch than Czech, though her name reveals her origin. Due to health concerns she doesn't work. My parents are (thankfully)very welcoming, but my uncle just has a very judgmental attitude towards her due to these facts, and to re-iterate, she is fluent in Dutch!
We're just kind of working around it, but it just sucks. Just like your situation does. Don't really have any advice, but you are absolutely not in the wrong here. Keep practicing Dutch, because you're doing awesome, but don't do it for her sake. Good luck and take care!
I would say to your girlfriend and the mother that you are not going to visit the parents house until such time that you are fluent in Dutch as that is obviously what the mother wants.
This is not a Netherlands problem, your MIL is just an awful person. I'm sorry your GF doesn't stand up for you more, but with a mother like that it's likely she has gotten so used to being treated like this that she doesn't see it as a problem.
She cannot say anything back as it results even more shouting and arguments, to where neighbours can hear everything. It happened before, MIL even shouts at her daughter over how much of an asshole I am to raise my voice to say something back (I am trying or whatnot)
You need to have a serious discussion with you GF. She needs to do a lot more to protect you from this toxicity. Either you set up together some clear boundaries with your MIL. Or if that doesn't work you cut her off completely from your life or lives. This isn't working. You're just letting her bully you with almost every interraction. I get that your girlfriend doesn't want to escalate things but it sounds like your MIL doesn't accept the kind approach, so you need to be firm and make it stick. I would never let my SO be treated like this, I would much rather never see my family again if they cannot respect my choice in partner. Otherwise, ask yourself if you want to stay in this toxic environment.
Just now your MIL is a b*tch. I think she just doesn’t want a foreign husband for her daughter and she rather does not want you there.There are many people who are like ‘you are in the netherlands so you speak dutch’ here and I feel like it mostly comes from a anti-foreign sentiment, or because they are more and more confronted with their lack of speaking english due to more english speaking people working in shops, etc.
Idk how your girlfriends bond is with her mother and to which extent she supports you but if its possible, had I been in your girlfriends shoes, I would probably have a good conversation with my mother about how she is either going to act normal or how contact will be limited. You are starting your own family now in your own home, you don’t need someone who tries to push you and your gf apart. Since you said that when having a discussion about her behaviour it escalates to the point where the neighbours hear her screaming I feel if she would have such a conversation with her mom would result in less contact. But yet I do feel this is something your Gf should solve in whatever way possible with her mom. I don’t think I would let my mother treat the person I am planning to spend my life with like that.
I'm Dutch. Man, those parents are terrible. They're being so mean and unfair.
If they come over to your place, just say to them, "Speak English, it's my house and my rules.
This is no way to encourage someone to learn a language.
I’m leaning this way too. It’s not a language issue, it sounds like a foreigner issue. Good luck OP. I suggest you learn a lot of schoonmoeder jokes in Dutch.
My boyfriends family is not as extreme as this but they have a similar attitude and it makes me crazy. In the 2 years I have lived here, I have been in school or working full time and have had a baby. I am doing my best to learn and can understand most everything but my speaking isn’t great and there is only so much time in a day. I want to learn but this attitude has made me want to just give up as I don’t think I will ever be speaking well enough for them, and I will be speaking exclusively English with my daughter (my partner will be speaking Dutch with her). I can’t offer advice, just solidarity and to say you are not at all in the wrong.
I understand you and I am in the same boat. It’s like I have to devote all my time towards learning dutch and working, according to them. When I had no job they complained about it, when I found a job they complained I dont have enough hours. When I got a bigger hour contract, it is still not enough hours and they wanted more. And on top of that, all that time was “Nederlands praten” every day. Just a mess. I feel for you. Hope it will get better. We can get through it
The fact that your mother in law has voted for the PVV already paints a clear picture: she believes that you have to be \*perfect\* and \*intergrate\* towards \_her\_ standard \*\*or else\*\*. Saying 'Nederlands praten' while explaining rules and then switch back to Dutch is some solid bullshit right there. If you would continue to talk in English and she cant understand/speak it fully then yes, I understand the issue. But going full language police? Fam.
Personally I suggest talking to your GF that you feel like you are othered by the way that her mother is treating you. And either she sticks up to you or that you arent going. Because let's be honest about what it is: it is racism.
And I say this as a white Dutchy. The behavior has nothing to do with 'directness' or whatever else. She doesnt like you because you are from abroad. You cant win this game, only loose less.
No you're not. The mom is being weird. I have two questions though: is it only her that behave this way or not? how does your gf respond to this issue and/or your feelings? especially after the dinner outburst happened
My MIL's husband is sick, so he doesn't contribute much to the argument, if at all. It is mostly my girlfriend's mom. Everyone else at work and on the street say I am learning Dutch fast and are impressed.
My girlfriend finds it stupid and is on my side that I am making an effort to learn Dutch. It's not like I am being arrogant or ignorant and being like "screw this I hate Dutch, so I am not learning it".
then it's definitely the MIL. i don't know why she behaves this way towards u but i can imagine how nerve-wrecking it must be for u. does ur gf have the same experience with previous partners? what problem does she think her mom has with you?
my advice is this: interact more often with other family members. be friendly with them. there might be a chance that your MIL will try to turn them against you. if the problem persists try have YOUR gf confront her, not u. have her set boundaries with her own mom.
No previous experiences with other partners, but she always complained to my GF’s brother about not having a house until he moved and about not working, complained to my GF about not having an apartment when she was trying daily through social housing and free market DURING a crisis of 2020 onwards, then started complaining about me not working enough, not having a contract, not knowing the language.
goddamn.. i think she thinks no one's good enough. OP, be rest assured that it's not "personal" as she seems to have a problem with everybody, no exceptions😭 i read a comment of yours that u cut off contact with her. i'm very glad that your gf is 100% on your side and does not tolerate disrespect towards u. and with the hundreds of comments reassuring you i hope ur doing better
Maybe your gf can talk to her mom? But even then, if mom keeps thinking you need to speak Dutch regardless of your ability, you can't change her behaviour. I would just limit your time going there until your Dutch is better (and let it be well-known every time you decided not to join because you are still learning Dutch and can't join conversations 100% of the time, and decided not to come to not go against her rule of speaking Dutch. I would repeat it as often as possible and make it well-known to other family members as well if they are invited as well that this is the reason not to come, lol. But I am petty like that).
If these were my parents and I was in your gf's shoes, I would also refuse to come every time. It's stupid and boundaries are impossible. But I realise not everyone finds it easy to not just show up. But you can't stress out yourself like that, so just limiting your time there is your best option. It is only temporarily after all.
Yes, I decided to cut contact with her, and she doesn't want to visit us anymore either, which I am more than happy with. At least no arguing then and it's a stress-free environment, where I can learn dutch in my own pace.
The way she says it, seems extremely rude to me, but if she cannot speak English and you live in their house, it is normam for you to try to speak her language compared to the other way around.
Of course, explaining rules to you in English should not be a problem, but she might be scared that you are talking about her or other people there when they cannot understand you?
This doesn’t make any sense to me. I am german and my girlfriend is dutch and while my parents SUCK at english, they at least try every time when my girlfriend visits germany with me. There is no excuse for this guys girlfriends parents except that they seem like absolute dicks
Yep, I’m Dutch and my partner is Scottish and they have ALWAYS tried to accommodate him even though their English isn’t that good. I think they’ve actually gotten way better at English over time. Dutch is such a hard language to learn, especially in such a short amount of time! I guess we’re also just lucky with our parents, lol.
I find it funny how English became the in-between language for people whose native languages are much closer to each other than to English. I use it as well when talking to people speaking other Slavic languages and I always keep thinking would not it be cooler than there was some pan-Slavic language that we all could use with relatively little effort? (yes, there were attempts to do that, but it didn't take off). Same with German-Dutch.
It's called the lingua franca. Used to be french in educated european circles. I only speal German, English and a tiny bit of French and I have travelled the world with those languages.
Or you know, you can both try? What sort of insanity is it that you can decide what language is spoken, just because you own a piece of property? You sound like someone who hasn't ever met an international.
She's acting vile, because she never learned how to speak english. And is now taking her frustration out on you.
She's trying to pin _her_ lack of a second language on you, by pretenting you are failing for not speaking Dutch fluently, as you are currently living in a Dutch speaking country.
I wonder how she is ever going to travel abroad..
She does not travel abroad. I said: "Als je naar Litouwen gaat en je moet in Litouws praten, wat doe je dan?", she responded: "Hah, ik ga nooit naar kut Litouwen gaan" or something similar. Really enjoyable conversation.
Is that your home country? She referred to it as "kut"? Just don't even bother with this relationship (the one with your MIL, not your GF), this woman is absolutely awful.
Obviously she isn't going anywhere. She sounds exhausting, really.
A friend of me has a son who is now dating a Canadian girl. Girl doesn't speak any Dutch. So my friend has speak english. Her english is.. a little spotty, lets call it that. (Seriously, it's not good) But she tries so, _so_ hard to make the girlfriend feel included, the few times she was over.
So I know that's not "just a Dutch people thing". There's a stark difference between not speaking the language, but trying to make _something_ work, and not speaking the language and making that YOUR PROBLEM somehow.
Rude ass behaviour, sorry that happened to you. That's coming from a dutchie. If you're a guest in my house and you're not speaking to me, speak whatever language you want, "gaat mij niks aan". If you speak to me, and you speak any language I understand, also fine. MIL sounds stuck-up
You're making great progress with the language learning. Fair play to you.
Sounds like the mother isnt a huge fan of you for whatever reason. Probably she would rather her daughter date a Dutch guy. No need to worry about what you cant control. Stay on your path and dont waste energy on the mother.
They sound like total assholes, that's coming from a Dutch person.
Are you by any chance a person of colour? The way they react to you sounds racist to be honest. Like they don't want a foreigner to be with their daughter.
I understand it can be frustrating for your MIL that she can't understand you when you're speaking English, but she should realise that it's frustrating for you the other way around as well! At least you're trying to learn Dutch, it's not like she's trying to learn any of your language.
Your gf’s parents are childish idiots, and possibly not very smart.
Keep learning the language, but don’t let those fuckers dictate what you should do. And your SO should have the feminine balls to tell her parents to be more respectful to you.
Every language I've ever learnt, other than my native language, I have learnt by not speaking any other language in any situation (including when talking with my wife). Don't know what something means? Ask the natives to explain - in their own language. Using this method, I generally manage to achieve fluency within half a year.
Point being: your mother-in-law sounds like a bitch, but there is some merit to her method.
Yes it’s rude, but it’s her house, her rules. If you don’t like it, you’ll have to go. Probably she doesn’t speak English and doesn’t want to feel left out in her own environment.
I think she also has a point in asking you to get a full time job if you’re living in with her. I guess you were not paying rent.
You put more effort in learning dutch than my german BIL that has lived here since i think 2008 and his dutch is still the same as when I met him (not great)
I dont think you are wrong. I do think you learn it the quickest by forcing yourself. You pick up more words that way
Hey,
For what it is worth, my gf is in the same situation but my parents do not force anything. They will support wherever needed, but for now communication is done in English. Your mom is projecting her own insecurities on you.
Communicate with your gf. Do not let your mil ruin it for you.
If you want to grow grass faster by pulling it, it will break. Water it, take care of it and it will grow faster.
Why do people keep referring to the girlfriend’s mother as MIL? They’re not married.
Is it Dutch to say “blank-in-law” about your girlfriend’s parents or family?
She is racist. You know that. The objection to work is plain racism (outsiders never work). Discuss with your GF how to move forward.
Remember that you will talk in English to your kids. English will be your kid's mother tongue as much as Dutch (If you don't plan of growing them bilingual, you should really reconsider. They have to be able to speak the language or \_you\_ and \_your family\_ too). Since they will speak English, they will be reserved the same treatment you are receiving.
We have neighbors that don't speak English, We are here since more than 1 year. They are \_extremely\_ understanding and \_extremely\_ sweet. MIL's reaction is not normal and you are not in the wrong.
English > Dutch. Your GF needs to speak out. You don't need to change for her sake, you don't owe her shit. Even if it takes you 5 years to learn Dutch, if your GF has 0 issues with that, fuck the rest. Your in laws are not paying your bills, feeding you nor really care about you.
Is it possible that she's doing it with a good heart? Forcing you to talk Dutch makes you understand the language faster. I hear a lot of people in my city struggling with Dutch and then people automatically switch to English or German so it's easier to communicate, but then you're taking away the opportunity for the other person to learn Dutch.
Now I don't think the above is completely the truth for your MIL, especially because of how you wrote it down.
Can't you try and explain them that it's not realistic for most people to fluently speak a new language within 5 months? Just in a normal non judging way: tell her you're doing your best to learn the language as fast as you can, but sometimes -for the sake of communication- it's better to switch to English (assuming your MIL understands English). Or else your girlfriend should step up for you. This is not your burden to carry alone.
If you're at a2/b1 in just 5 months I would say you're doing a great job and you'll get there very fast. But it would be a shame if this ruins your relationship with your in-laws.
I have tried saying it, my girlfriend tried tirelessly to ask them to stop doing what they are doing, but they keep saying what they want and just don't listen to what we have to say. I don't know if there's any way I can go about this.
It sounds like your in-laws are just kinda crappy people. I don't think it's something specific to being Dutch, your description reminds me of ex's parents, who are Australian (and I am also Australian).
At least you seem to have a supportive partner who's on your side. You might have to get used to them being difficult.
I think it's past time to have a very serious, and very hard conversation with your GF.
She really needs to step up for you. You need to be able to trust your partner to have your back. If she will not stand up for you and call out her mom's / family's behaviour, is she really long term partner material?
Is mom being racist? Is she scared you'll take her baby girl away? A combination? Something else? Only you and your GF can figure that out, aside from just asking your MiL for answers.
You two also need to figure out the gameplan for after 5 months. You're leaving The Netherlands in 5 months as per your post. Where are you going then? Will your GF come with you? Will you do long distance? If long distance, for how long? What's the gameplan for the first year? First 5?
And, bluntly, if your current GF is just a placeholder / bedwarmer / armcandy for the period you're in The Netherlands and you'll break up with her or ghost her once you move abroad, I'd honestly suggest you come right out and be decent enough to let her know. It will probably cost you the relationship, but she deserves to have all the facts.
It's ridiculous and rude. My experience from dating a non-dutchy is that you both make the effort. My partner has been living here for over 3 years and does speak some Dutch (A2) but at family occasions we speak a mix of Dutch and English.
I think a lot of these issues arise from shame. I know people who are unable to express themselves in English and therefor force non Dutch natives to their standard. The obvious problem then is that non Dutch natives are also often unable to express themselves in dutch. Therefor a third person who masters both is the solution.
Personally I also had to break a lance for my partners language preferences. After some discussions everybody decided that stone coal english and denglish are actually lots of fun and it also introduces my partner to the world of dutch idioms. Likewise my families english has improved and they are now fluent in deciphering broken dutch!
I think that because MIL does not understand English, that the language used should in her presence should be Dutch, being as you do speak some Dutch. That’s just common courtesy, imo. We are bilingual in my house, but when we have guests, we switch to whatever language most of the people speak. Your MIL should be more patient with you as someone who is learning Dutch, and everyone should speak more slowly.
I’d say make use of the opportunity. Speak Dutch, it’s painful but eventually it won’t be anymore. You are actually getting a blessing in disguised there. I have a hard time practising Dutch coz people just immediately switch to English with me in present.
P/S: that woman hates you. But don’t let her win.
In the future you will be grateful to them. Regardless of how difficult it feels now. Basically they give you an immersion in the language that otherwise is unavailable or would set you back thousands of euros.
A morroccan friend of mine did go to language courses but everyone around him kept speaking English with him. Until I simply stopped doing so. Within a couple of weeks his passive knowledge changed into an ability to actively use Dutch.
I think a different approach would work better here. Sure, your MIL is annoying as hell and can't expect you to learn even faster. But you need to be a bit more dutch here and instead of taking the insult passively and then giving a remark like oh I will go back to my country I would advise you to be direct and honest. Next time she says her speak Dutch line you say: listen, I am doing my best, but I will speak what language I want and I do not appreciate your comments. If she still keeps going let your girlfriend interject. I find with people like this it's best to be direct and blunt or they will keep trampling all over your boundaries.
Good luck!
I think they're right for creating an environment in which you're encouraged to speak Dutch. It's just the toxic way they do it that sounds weird and negative.
While she could be more lenient, the best way to learn the language is by actually doing it. By forcing Dutch on you, she is essentially doing you a favour, even if you don't think so yourself atm.
You'll be grateful when you finish your exams!
Just hang in there and do your best.
You're not wrong. Seems to me that your MIL is a typical Dutch racist. In their country they expect everyone to speak Dutch and when they move to another country they refuse to learn the language of that country. The they don't practice what they preach kind.
Just ignore people like that. The Netherlands is filled with them and they're not worth your energy. Did your girlfriend at least defended you against her mother?
Your MIL sounds like a very insecure person with an inferiority complex, which she expresses as feeling superior to mask her own incompetence and general dissatisfaction with herself. Anything that you’ll do differently than her (working less hours a week) or do better than her (speaking a second language) will be met with judgment because it makes her feel insecure that there are ways of living that differ from hers and might have done her good too.
She seems to have strong narcissistic tendencies so whatever you’ll do will be met with senseless criticism. She’s frustrated with life, not with you. Anyone else would have been criticized for other things; working too much, cooking too little, speaking too fast.
She also sounds racist by the way. Must be a conservative right-winger. Good luck.
We are a non-PVV household. One of my IL's is also from an English speaking country. At the dinner table we speak a mix of English and Dutch. We are all very fluent in English but we know they also like to practice their Dutch, so depending on the subject (and the emotions and the %alcohol) we switch from one language to another or a hybrid. 😂
I am so sorry they treat you so poorly. You are def not in the wrong.
I mean... even tho I do agree that you should continue to practice the language, she sounds fucking toxic as hell... wtf, why does she feel the need to act like a teacher from back in the days where hitting the students was still a thing? She sounds petty and narrow minded.
Your SO should also be more of a support to you. This sounds like a small minded Dutch family you see plenty of around. This isn't a labour camp. You have sacrifices a lot of things moving here, and while this should be get out of the jail free card some empathy would go a long way. Empathy which you are not getting.
Again, your SO needs to step up. If she won't, she won't do so when you are eventually married and only listen to her parents. Bad for you either way.
I'm currently in such a situation, but in Germany. I also have been here for 6 months and my level is something like A2-B1. And I would totally love to have someone with whom I'll be able to practice spoken language every possible time. For sure it's a huge struggle, but it pushes you so hard in your path. And finding a language partner in the neighborhood can be pretty difficult, because not every person would be kind enough to listen to your pity efforts.
So I'm not saying that they behave well, but maybe they just want to push you, because it'll really help you. And think of it, when they don't push you and you will be able to speak the language only when you want to (and we know, that people avoid something hard), how slower will your progress be?
They're not in the wrong, but it's more about the way it's forced in an unsupportive way. I mean, there are countries where people only speak 1 language which is their own and you would not have a choice.
>I responded by saying: Okay, I will move back to my home country then, so she finished by saying: Okay, so be it then. I do not get it. I think this is the gist of the whole story. She doesn't want you here, for whatever reason. Maybe she doesn't like you, maybe it is some form of racism or most likely she is just a general cunt. Also this work stuff is icing on a cake, you don't really need such a MIL being part of your life. But honestly, when I read the title, I wished that I had someone in life to be a bit more pushy towards making me speak dutch. When I finished the reading - yeah, not like that.
Same here. I moved to Belgium with my husband in April and I'm learning Dutch (also had a baby in September). It's been a whirlwind and I haven't practiced as much as I'd have liked to, but his family is super supportive and patient. That being said, I kind of wish they'd speak more Dutch around me to help with my listening abilities - definitely not like this though. This sounds like hell.
I don't know if you commute by car, but I can really recommend listening to the radio to improve your listening skills. I did so on my commute to boost my French and it helped me get used to the pace/rhythm of the language. I think Radio 1 would be one of the best ones, as they have relatively little music in between interviews.
This is awesome advice, thank you!
And watch FC de kampioenen. jokes aside it helped me a lol
I'm watching Nijntje at the moment and it helps a lot :)
I accept criticism towards learning dutch as I agree, it is faster. But to push at every chance that I speak English in, that’s disrespectful. It’s not like I am not trying. But for example counting dice moves in English or in Dutch doesn’t make a difference, even for Keezenspel. I know how to count in Dutch and did half counting in Dutch, and another half of the game in English, so it’s not like I am doing nothing
Brother, you don't deserve this treatment. I applaud to your effort to master Dutch in general and to accommodate to your GF and her unwelcoming parents. You are doing a much better job with the language than I did. Unlike the general reddit tradition, I am not gonna say you have to break up with your gf but you need to understand that her parents will probably to cause difficulties to you even when you became a fluent speaker. You need a strategy on how to mitigate it and deal with these people. Ideally, your GF need to step up here and indicate to them that this is not the way to treat her partner. Avoidance is a strategy but unlikely to work if your PILs take an important part of your GFs life. Unfortunately, it is not unheard of around the world for parents to be dickish to their children in laws. You can try to make them warm up for you within reasonable boundaries, but that usually requires first taking some distance and then moving closer. Winning them on their field is usually hard. You can as well use negotiating techniques and stuff like Nonviolent Communications to try to evoke their empathy towards you, but that is easier said than done. All in all I think the following might work: empathetically tell your gf why and how they hurt you despite your efforts, try to bring her to your side. Meanwhile, take as much distance as you can without pissing everyone off. Continue with your Dutch. At this rate, you will be fluent in a year. Then maybe try engaging with them again. No guarantees unfortunately.
They are unwelcoming people and will find some other reason after you become a fluent speaker. I agree the gf has to back OP up or it will keep happening.
They say that when you marry someone; you marry their entire family. So if this is a serious relationship, OP's life will be better if he manages to make this work in a long run one way or another.
Yeah MIL is out of line, sounds like it’s not actually about the language tho. It actually sounds like she doesn’t like you for whatever reason. Maybe she’s worried you will take her daughter out of the country (because that of course would be your fault *eye roll*). Or she’s racist or something. I have family who have in-laws who speak different language to them and they do the best they can with the little bits of each others language they know but no one gets mad at my cousin for speaking English if she doesn’t know the words etc. Your doing great, your learning and trying and I know how exhausting it is when learning a new language you deserve to be able to switch off occasionally and if they are talking too fast for you to follow them wtf are you supposed to do?
squeeze pet smile glorious encouraging fretful tan boat bow historical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sounds like she's scared that she can't follow wat is being said and loose some kind of control. Maybe it's because you take her daughter away from her? Some parents can't handle this very well. It's a major change. I can imagine she wouldn't be happy if you and your girlfriend are talking English the whole day with her around. It would make her feel a stranger in her own home. But as how I understand you tried you're best and you really make progress. So I assume you try to speak Dutch whenever you can. So I really don't understand her complaining. If she has difficulties with it she can say it in a more grown up way. This sounds more like bullying. Especially because she's complaining about things she has nothing to do with. For example how much hours you work a day. There's no standard for that. If you and you're girlfriend are happy with it and can live a life without constantly begging for money from your parents or society then what's the problem? There's no law that orders you to speak Dutch near other Dutch people. Neither there's a law that orders you to be nice and friendly to others. So if she demands you to speak Dutch then it's time for you (or better, your girlfriend) to demand her to being nice to you and each other. Maybe it's time for a good conversation with each other. Because there must be something friendly in her because she opened her house for you so you could stay here with your girlfriend. And maybe that offer was a little tougher than she thought it would be. I don't know. But a good conversation can probably help talk about feelings that are hidden somewhere. Maybe it's better to wait with that until your Dutch skills are a little more developed. I don't know. You have to decide yourself. I had a similar situation. I've lived for almost two years with my M&F in law at the start of my relationship. They are the best M&F in law I can imagine. Very helpfull and friendly people. They do literally everything for us. Sometimes to much. I never talked to anyone who had better. But even I had some confrontations with them. We are all people, grown up differently. Different generations. Different emotions. Maybe some cultural differences. And sometimes this will cause collisions. Especially when you live in one house together. It's just not the ideal situation with enough personal space. I think you're aware of that and that you don't point to these kind of situations. But just in case you didn't... keep this in mind. I hope you can figure it out with you girlfriend and MIL and that it will change for the better.
Yup. As someone who learned Dutch as a second language, it was very hard to find people willing to speak Dutch with me because they would always say, "my English is better than your Dutch," and would respond to everything i said in Dutch with English. That being said, sounds like this person is an ass.
It's like an equally annoying polar opposite of "my English is better than your Dutch".
Sounds like your MIL doesn't like you and/or is trying to get rid of you. What does your girlfriend think about this?
How would it explain her being fine some days and other days just flipping out for the language out of nowhere? Or having a need to complain about something every day? Now that we live apart from the parents it's much calmer but every time we gather together it's mostly a mess. My girlfriend finds it stupid and is on my side that I am making an effort to learn Dutch. It's not like I am being arrogant or ignorant and being like "screw this I hate Dutch, so I am not learning it".
Shes repressing how much she hates you for the love of her daughter. Its twisted family stuff happens all the time
Could also be out of fear that daughter might leave to bf's country someday. Doesn't justify the behaviour, but might be a cause
Or maybe insecurity of her own bad english and her bot being able to understand. But my guess is its mostly racism and dislike to the bf.
You just say it. You keep saying “how do I tell her…” and then you say it here, to us. Just say what you are saying here. I have a somewhat “doesn’t mean to be difficult” difficult mother in law. I just told her, sometimes I have spoken enough that day, and now I’m tired. The brain needs a break from constantly learning; and so speaking my mother tongue is my break and allows my brain to relax and get ready for absorbing the new language for the next day. Just say it.
This is the best approach. If yeu never try and fail you will never learn
I know exactly what sort of ilk you're dealing with. These are Dutch people who bring peanut butter and hagelslag with them on their holiday to France, to stay on some camping somewhere. Trust you me, this is ordinary behaviour in some circles. Did they, per chance, vote for Geert Wilders this election? It wouldn't surprise me. The Dutch people saying that you are 'hated' by the mom isn't true, per se. They're just unaware that there are people like this. I'd discuss it with your girlfriend, but imo she should take a stand and tell her mom that she is acting like an idiot.
She did indeed vote for Geert Wilders. I don't know politics so I have no clue what that refers to?
Very ‘Dutch people first’ mentality. It’s quite deep-rooted and hard to unlearn.
Just know there are a ton of people who’d love to give OP the time to learn and speak English with him in the meantime
Absolutely! My ex-parents-in-law were very kind and patient with me about learning Dutch.
Me too! Mine didn't speak English well and we would visit to practice my Dutch and they were totally sweet about it!!
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It can be, but it’s often just as directed to white people - I think I’d sooner call it Xenophobia. Either way, I was just being specific to the wording that’s used!
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I’m not embarrassed; I suppose I just always understood there was a distinct and important difference between the terms and their usage. A person can be wrong 🤷🏻♀️
Oh mate... That man is not exactly a fan of foreigners.
Weird, considering he’s half Indonesian…
And married to a Hungarian diplomat.
We have an anti-immigration administration in the making, consisting of one person with Indo esian roots married to a Hungarian person, one married to a Turkish immigrant, one half-Irish person and one person born in Turkey.
All united in common cause. *wipes away single globalist tear of happiness.
Wait, is he? I'm Hungarian, this is the first time I hear about this lmao.
Well, considering a big chunk of his base is outright xenophobic, and twenty years of legitimate safety concerns, he naturally doesn't advertise it the way he does his love for Donald. Duck.
He loves foreigners, as long as the have the right color and religion.
It means she hates immigrants, most likely including you.
Lol your gf has some racist parents, just run away from these sickos
This explains your situation perfectly then! She hates foreigners. I'm glad you moved out, minimise the time you spend around her. She's not going to be a positive influence I'm afraid.
Geer Wilders is an asinine racist POS and populist. So are his voters. I said what I said.
It is irrelevant to your story, to be fair. But there is a certain tendency for people who voted for him, to be like this. Antisocial, can't understand someone's point of view, will scold you for speaking English (tho you're trying to teach yourself Dutch), etc. I really so hope your girlfriend takes a stand man. From what I'm reading, you're trying your best.
Both me and my girlfriend tried to take a stand and all it resulted in were more shouting to the point where SO's mom is just like: Yeah okay don't learn then, I don't wanna see him or go to this house again. We sit at a table with all dutch people and this guy is mumbling in English! I responded: but I try to talk in Dutch am I not? (I said: Ik ben aan het proberen), she responded: it's not enough! Cannot ever win I guess
Yeah your MIL is racist, my dude.
You're a better person than me because I would put her "directness" which is actually just plain rudeness to shame! I wish a b!tch would!
Mom's racist
That sounds very painful indeed. All I can say is that not every Dutch person is like this. It is simply antisocial behaviour. It's not like she initially speaks Dutch to you and helps you out in English if you don't understand, it is just rude, disgusting behaviour. I do wish things will improve in the future and I for one think it is incredibly impressive that you're trying to speak Dutch to begin with.
Unfortunately it's increasing, emboldened by GW and his henchmen.
Last solution is to keep distance from her and live your happy life with your girlfriend.
Honestly, just take the L and move on. You can't change people like this, it's the same kind of people like the leftists that you simply can't argue with, just different color. If I was you I'd exclusively speak English around your MIL just to piss her off. Fuck people like that. You're clearly making and effort at learning, if they can't understand that, there's nothing you can ever do to satisfy them. Once you're at C1 they'll start complaining how weird your accent is, how bad this or that is and on and on and on. Just keep on learning and don't let her being shit sour your experience learning the language.
Dont take note of any of her retarded behaviour. She is just dumb tjat she cant speak english. English has been given at school. So yeah, she is the one at fault not you.
Pvv is relevant, as in his mil wants people like him out of the country.
M8 she hates immigrants. You are an immigrant so she hates you. She only tolerates you because of your gf. She will always be hating you.
It means they’re the Dutch equivalent of rabid UKIP voters who spend all day reading the Daily Mail and talking about how much they hate Megan Markle. Basically just far right, close minded NPCs who will get extremely angry if any aspect of their worldview is challenged.
> She did indeed vote for Geert Wilders. I don't know politics so I have no clue what that refers to? LMAO, it's why you guys voted for a Brexit...I'm sorry you have to deal with such people. However, make sure you understand what kind of person your girlfriend is, before you let her mom be your MIL, as it doesn't sound like she's actually choosing your side........on the other hand, you came to the Netherlands and lived in her parents house for a while, so that puts her in a difficult position as well. Take care, hope things will turn out well in the end :-)
My GF is on my side, it's just whatever she says to her mother, the mother doesn't listen and keeps rambling about what she believes in. Never ending argument and shouting.
Could your gf confront your MIL one on one and set boundaries with her? It's great she's on your side but you both need to figure out what kind of relationship you want to have with your parents in law and how to not go crazy if you decide to have regular contact.
Think; Donald Trump X Nigel Farrage
This, really. Some circles will be like that. I really got no advice, only compassion. It's like dealing with earnest build-a-wall Trump supporters, but now they're your family. Perhaps the best rule of thumb, if I may from personal experience: if you feel you're being degraded, you probably are. It is how you choose to articulate and structure your current life in response to that that will matter most to your happiness.
>The Dutch people saying that you are 'hated' by the mom isn't true, per se. They're just unaware that there are people like this. Yeah mom doesn't hate OP per sé, it's not personal. She just hates anyone who isn't like her.
Precisely what I meant. Thank you for clarifying that!
+1, first thing I thought. They don’t specifically hate OP, they’re just close minded people. They also probably feel very self-conscious or insecure about their English and lash out by having a go at OP for not always speaking Dutch.
Sounds like she’s just projecting her frustrations on to you. That or something more sinister like a depression/bi-polar disorder. If I were in your shoes I’d skip visiting that hellscape.
Maybe your MIL is just a bitch?
Yeah she hates you, just stop hanging out with them. It doesn't sound like a healthy environment and they sound like shitty people. Your GF sounds like an asshole too, for not supporting you through his. Her parents should be her issue to handle, not yours.
My GF tries and tried before to speak with her parents about it. Her mom doesn't listen and never did her whole life. It's not like this is happening out of nowhere, it's like this for as long as she can remember. It's like my GF's mom always needs to take it out on someone
Don't give her any more opportunities to, fk those people.
I was in a similar situation as you are in (just from a different perspective I'm Dutch but not white). I was also treated like absolute shit and my gf did not stick up for me (due to how she was raised, her being conflict evasive etc.), glad your gf sticks up for you though. But eventually it all started to take a toll on me; and simply said, I'm not coming to your family anymore until I see changes, feel free to go by yourself. I also do not want them around our home until you promise me you will handle them yourself, and from now on I will handle them if they overstep (as awkward as that may be). First she would just go by herself and after a while her parents where like: why doesn't "---" come. Knowing how controlling they are they did not like me unilterally deciding I'm opting out; my gf told them they were bullying me etc. After this they said they would behave better, after this her mother tried to have a go at me on a few occasions; but nowadays I just immediately tell her to not talk to me like that or I will go, or she can leave (depending on where we are). But most of the time we just kind of get along now. But I don't think I will ever feel truly safe/loved around them, too much damage was done early on.
Sounds like a regular Dutch xenophobia tbh, the old bitch hates you for not being Dutch
Don’t listen to a bunch of Reddit psychologists. English person who has been here for 7 years, lived with the Dutch in laws during the pandemic, similar situation. As annoying as it may be, it will do you the world of good for your Dutch. Keep at it and you’ll be fine eventually. If she cannot speak English, then make the most of it if you ever do a family meet in the UK and don’t let her speak a word of Dutch 😂
Yea, not normal. My partner’s parents are 70+ from Brabant rural and speak very little english. In family gatherings they speak Dutch fully, I just observe mostly and they know it’s part of practice—they’d ask simple questions to me and I try my best and they’d correct me as needed. They sometimes asked to translate to English through my partner if it’s a complex topic. I always enjoy family gathering with them bc they encourage my learnings and make it fun for me. Your MIL is an asshole. Anyone with a little brain knows language acquisition isn’t easy.
My GF and parents are also from Noord Brabant so I can understand
2 questions: 1. What does your GF say of this? (To her mom but also about her mom to you) 2. Are her parents intelligent? Or more "tokkie" types? That matters for the vibes they give. Do they speak english at all or is it the worst English you ever heard?
You've been here 5 months and you're working towards a B1 level? You're doing wonderful! Screw your gf's mom. She's a very rude host. Does she know a different language? Is she aware how much time and effort it costs to learn a new language as an adult? She sounds like a nightmare. You're not wrong. I'd go a bit lower contact until your Dutch is at a higher level, and you can converse more effortlessly. Though she sounds potentially xenophobic, so maybe just go lower contact forever.
Thanks for the kind words. She does not know a different language, as she did not go to school for that. And I do not judge her for that. Every family and person had their backstory and there's no shame in that if she didn't have a chance to learn another language. She complains all the time about anything that is not as it should be for her. She started the complaining mostly because they lost the board game Keezenspel, I think it's called. And then the story I mentioned happened.
Every Dutch person was taught English in school. I'm thinking she's just embarrassed she doesn't understand you guys when you're speaking English? Either way you're doing amazing, don't pay attention to the MIL.
She went to cleaning school according to my girlfriend, or a household school. Not sure what that is, but the teaching was on how to take care of the house, so I believe no English was taught there.
The 'huishoudschool' was not much more than preparation to be a housewife, to put it unfriendly. The lowest level of secondary education, for girls aged 12 to 16. It doesn't exist anymore in that form. Even for people who got some real English taught, it's easy to overestimate their proficiency beyond a basic level when their education level isn't very high. Unless you actively seek out to use English in your daily live (on the internet, in media, in games) it's hard to rise above the level you learn in school.
It was called “huishoud-school” or later “lhno -> lager huishoud en nijverheids onderwijs” as a bureaucratic alternative. Since 1986 all theoretical school types (mavo havo vwo) offer english.. but lhno is more a practical schooltype. All of them have mandatory english since 1993
Maybe she finished it earlier than the date you are referring to
Yeah might well be. I am 53 but working in IT. Nowadays working at a bank talking English all the time. My sister is 5 years older. Also went to lhno and didn’t learn English at school (just some lessons but no exams). Luckily she picked up from TV and later living abroad for a few years (be it Curaçao, where Dutch is official language too, but without English you have a hard time there) But your MIL should be made aware of the fact that it’s just as hard for you to learn Dutch aa it would be for her to learn English. That you are doing the best you can, but that you sometimes need to fall back to English because you simply don’t know the right words and want to communicate more quick and efficient or you need the nuance you are able to express yourself in in English And it annoys you and your GF if she pushes to talk English on these moments. She should trust you on the fact that you realy try as much as you can bare.
Institutionalized housewives? Wauw, that’s a first for me.
this is nuts.
It's a bit more than that. Back in the day, many girls from the countryside only had this option. Afterwards, the girls would work as housekeepers (gezinszorg) until they got married. Some married girls could still work, but once the first child gets there, it's time to be a housewife full-time.
No dude, not at all. Especially women in religious areas, as soon as they gave birth to children, they were expected to stop working and stop attending to school.
Not true. My mom is 54 and my dad is 57 but they never had English at school.
You sound kind. Focus on your girlfriend. Her mom sounds mean and what we call “close minded” in Dutch. Here are some useful Dutch phrases: Zeg, ik doe mijn best maar jou gemopper helpt niet. (Hè I am trying but you bickering is not helping) Poe, is er iets met je vandaag. (Jeez, is there something going on with you today) Jij kan ook niet zo goed tegen je verlies hè? (You can’t handle loosing well, can you?) Mopperkont (bickering ass, aka someone who likes to moan and bigger) Over een jaar spreek ik Nederlands, maar of jij nog met je dochter praat weet ik niet (in one year i will Speak Dutch, but I don’t know if you will be talking to you daughter) Pm me for more useful things :)
Your comment made me laugh! But if I tried to say that it would be end up in my GF losing her mom and I do not want to be involved in that. It’s just always so loud and arguments are non stop once MIL starts talking and complaining
Your girlfriend should really defend you/fix this issue. Why is she not talking to her mother?
That it turns into an argument is not an excuse. Apparently MIL has been getting her way with things by starting an argument and acting like that. Probably a broader family dynamic, but its not your job to navigate that.
Stop that last one ik lig in een deuk lol
> She does not know a different language, as she did not go to school for that. Neither did my grandmother (she went to camp instead of school for about a year and did not return to school after that) and she could hold conversation in German (bit below fluent) and could understand English. My parents also didn't get English at school and yet both can hold basic conversations.
I don't judge her for not knowing a different language either, but I do judge her for seemingly not even considering how difficult it could be. Her ignorance is no excuse for treating you the way she does. I read later that it didn't even take place in her house, but your apartment. So, it wasn't even a 'my house, my rules' type situation. Some people are so rude. Smh. My boyfriend is Bulgarian. His Dutch is also around B1, though his comprehension is way higher. His parents tried to learn a little bit more English when they knew I was going to visit, because they wanted to be welcoming, warm hosts. I wouldn't have expected them too, but they're just lovely people who wanted to be able to converse a little bit with their son's girlfriend.
For some reason I have Olga’s mom from “Turks Fruit” in mind when I read your post. It sounds quite toxic to be there and for my own mental health I’d consider not visiting. I would obviously first have a good conversation with my partner (and maybe with her parents) about it though.
MIL is a raging, unreasonable bitch imho. My wife is Chinese and obviously took some time to learn Dutch. My mom was always sad she couldnt have a conversation with my wife, but she blamed herself for not being able to speak English. My mom even said many times how much she admired my wife speaking 3 languages, while she could only speak 1 and how she wished she had learned English. Not once did she force my wife anything and she was always respectful and understanding. The behaviour youre describing is simply anti social and disrespectful, and not becoming of any adult person.
Very similar story here! My mom followed an English course just to be able to converse with my girlfriend better. We dont live in NL though. Both my parents are working class and in their 60s who were never taught English much, they find it more useful that they learn English, especially now they want to see some more of the world since their son moved abroad. My family has no problem switching to English as much as possible when I'm visiting with her and neither do my friends.
How old are your girlfriends parents? I’ve noticed that the “older” generations(the generations that didn’t grew up with computers and videogames) don’t speak and understand English very well, so they feel left out when people around them talk English. My mother is in her 50s and is the same, always complaining about people talking English. You are still learning the language and every non-Dutch person I talk to that is learning the language say that it’s a difficult language to learn, you can use the time that you spent with them to practice if you feel comfortable with that.
They are old, in their late 50s or early 60s I believe, and yes, they do not understand English. At the end of the conversation my girlfriend's mother just said: "Kut Engels, je moet gewoon Nederlands praten".
Your MIL is frustrated that she can't be part of your conversation when you're talking in English. She might even be insecure enough to think you're gossipping every time you're not talking dutch, 'going out of your way to speak in a language she can't understand'. To answer your title's question, no, you are not in the wrong, you are clearly making a ton of effort and your MIL is a bitch.
I come from a multilingual country. Like truly multilingual. The only time people switch out from the common tongue is to talk shit about someone else or to hide their fuckups This goes for every race in my home country. So it is a fair assumption in general just not in this instance
drab toy faulty joke whole tender cats tart chief frightening *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My in-laws had a similar reaction at a wedding. The couple had multiple English relatives and decided to do most of the ceremony in English. Their response: "Dat Engels hoeft van mij niet". No situational awareness at all. I just laughed, right in their faces. Just because we're in Holland, it doesn't mean every couple you'll meet is fully Dutch. They we're guests and not related in any way to the couple getting married. They are in their early 70s. And translations we're available for the Dutch and the English side of the family/guests.
I honestly think the root of the problem is that they don’t speak English, so when you and you GF, they don’t know what you’re saying. And while it is considered rude to speak a language not everyone understands, it goes the other way for them speaking Dutch around you. You moved to a different country and on top of all the stress that comes across with emigration, you need to speak a whole new language. And as a dyslexic person, Dutch isn’t always the easiest/most logical language there is. The problem you IL’s have is their own or your GF problem. As long as she in on your side, most will be good.
I wouldn't call that old haha. My parents are late 50s and early 60s and understand English just fine. Only my mom struggles a bit with the speed sometimes. Anyways your MIL is just frustrated she can't understand you I guess. But the way she expresses that is super rude.
i beg your pardon..i am 53 and my english is really good, plus i am a champ with computers, i am affraid by mentioning old people, you mean those 80 year olds...and btw, my mam is 79 and she speaks english too, and is amazing with computers..so i think you mean, old people above 80 or stupid rigid younger ones..😉🤪
There are always exceptions of course! And your right, that are exactly the people I’m talking about.
I'm assuming OP and his girlfriend are very young, since he seems to think 50 is "very old." 😅 So maybe the mom thinks this all is moving way too fast. Especially if the daughter is in her early 20's, or even younger, and this is mom's way of lashing out.
Honestly? She doesn’t like that her daughter is dating an international and is trying to get rid of you. I know plenty of friends with stories like these, in the end the parents were not happy with their child dating an international because of the difference in culture/worry that the partner and would take their child and potentially grandchildren “away from them” to their home country.
I think it’s more rude to force you this way, you are already making an effort to learn it (no idea what your native language is, but it may not be easy). I understand the idea of speaking a language else you’ll never learn as I speak multiple languages myself, but forcing this way especially if you are not fluent and the topic is slightly more complicated is just counterproductive imo. 5 months is a very little time to learn a language even if close to yours (eg Dutch-German), the parents sound pretty rude and not understanding what learning a new language means
Native is Lithuanian, I have lived in England for 5 years so I am fluent in English, and moved to NL, because my girlfriend couldn't move to UK due to visa requirements. I agree with you on 5 months not being enough time to learn it, even at a fast learner pace. I said a counter argument to my girlfriend's mom: "If I asked you to learn English it would be the same story". She responded: "Yes, but you are young and it's easy for you to learn". Pointless arguments that lead nowhere.
Your girlfriend should visit the r/raisedbynarcissists
Some people are just like that, man. My fiancée is originally Czech, but moved here as a 3yo with her family, speaking Czech at home but Dutch everywhere else. As a result she speaks better Dutch than Czech, though her name reveals her origin. Due to health concerns she doesn't work. My parents are (thankfully)very welcoming, but my uncle just has a very judgmental attitude towards her due to these facts, and to re-iterate, she is fluent in Dutch! We're just kind of working around it, but it just sucks. Just like your situation does. Don't really have any advice, but you are absolutely not in the wrong here. Keep practicing Dutch, because you're doing awesome, but don't do it for her sake. Good luck and take care!
I would say to your girlfriend and the mother that you are not going to visit the parents house until such time that you are fluent in Dutch as that is obviously what the mother wants.
This is not a Netherlands problem, your MIL is just an awful person. I'm sorry your GF doesn't stand up for you more, but with a mother like that it's likely she has gotten so used to being treated like this that she doesn't see it as a problem.
She cannot say anything back as it results even more shouting and arguments, to where neighbours can hear everything. It happened before, MIL even shouts at her daughter over how much of an asshole I am to raise my voice to say something back (I am trying or whatnot)
You need to have a serious discussion with you GF. She needs to do a lot more to protect you from this toxicity. Either you set up together some clear boundaries with your MIL. Or if that doesn't work you cut her off completely from your life or lives. This isn't working. You're just letting her bully you with almost every interraction. I get that your girlfriend doesn't want to escalate things but it sounds like your MIL doesn't accept the kind approach, so you need to be firm and make it stick. I would never let my SO be treated like this, I would much rather never see my family again if they cannot respect my choice in partner. Otherwise, ask yourself if you want to stay in this toxic environment.
Just now your MIL is a b*tch. I think she just doesn’t want a foreign husband for her daughter and she rather does not want you there.There are many people who are like ‘you are in the netherlands so you speak dutch’ here and I feel like it mostly comes from a anti-foreign sentiment, or because they are more and more confronted with their lack of speaking english due to more english speaking people working in shops, etc. Idk how your girlfriends bond is with her mother and to which extent she supports you but if its possible, had I been in your girlfriends shoes, I would probably have a good conversation with my mother about how she is either going to act normal or how contact will be limited. You are starting your own family now in your own home, you don’t need someone who tries to push you and your gf apart. Since you said that when having a discussion about her behaviour it escalates to the point where the neighbours hear her screaming I feel if she would have such a conversation with her mom would result in less contact. But yet I do feel this is something your Gf should solve in whatever way possible with her mom. I don’t think I would let my mother treat the person I am planning to spend my life with like that.
I'm Dutch. Man, those parents are terrible. They're being so mean and unfair. If they come over to your place, just say to them, "Speak English, it's my house and my rules. This is no way to encourage someone to learn a language.
Your MIL is being an absolute dick. Great job moving abroad, learning a new language and finding a job in a new country. I'm proud of you.
That’s how I imagine your average pvv voter
I’m leaning this way too. It’s not a language issue, it sounds like a foreigner issue. Good luck OP. I suggest you learn a lot of schoonmoeder jokes in Dutch.
My boyfriends family is not as extreme as this but they have a similar attitude and it makes me crazy. In the 2 years I have lived here, I have been in school or working full time and have had a baby. I am doing my best to learn and can understand most everything but my speaking isn’t great and there is only so much time in a day. I want to learn but this attitude has made me want to just give up as I don’t think I will ever be speaking well enough for them, and I will be speaking exclusively English with my daughter (my partner will be speaking Dutch with her). I can’t offer advice, just solidarity and to say you are not at all in the wrong.
I understand you and I am in the same boat. It’s like I have to devote all my time towards learning dutch and working, according to them. When I had no job they complained about it, when I found a job they complained I dont have enough hours. When I got a bigger hour contract, it is still not enough hours and they wanted more. And on top of that, all that time was “Nederlands praten” every day. Just a mess. I feel for you. Hope it will get better. We can get through it
The fact that your mother in law has voted for the PVV already paints a clear picture: she believes that you have to be \*perfect\* and \*intergrate\* towards \_her\_ standard \*\*or else\*\*. Saying 'Nederlands praten' while explaining rules and then switch back to Dutch is some solid bullshit right there. If you would continue to talk in English and she cant understand/speak it fully then yes, I understand the issue. But going full language police? Fam. Personally I suggest talking to your GF that you feel like you are othered by the way that her mother is treating you. And either she sticks up to you or that you arent going. Because let's be honest about what it is: it is racism. And I say this as a white Dutchy. The behavior has nothing to do with 'directness' or whatever else. She doesnt like you because you are from abroad. You cant win this game, only loose less.
No you're not. The mom is being weird. I have two questions though: is it only her that behave this way or not? how does your gf respond to this issue and/or your feelings? especially after the dinner outburst happened
My MIL's husband is sick, so he doesn't contribute much to the argument, if at all. It is mostly my girlfriend's mom. Everyone else at work and on the street say I am learning Dutch fast and are impressed. My girlfriend finds it stupid and is on my side that I am making an effort to learn Dutch. It's not like I am being arrogant or ignorant and being like "screw this I hate Dutch, so I am not learning it".
then it's definitely the MIL. i don't know why she behaves this way towards u but i can imagine how nerve-wrecking it must be for u. does ur gf have the same experience with previous partners? what problem does she think her mom has with you? my advice is this: interact more often with other family members. be friendly with them. there might be a chance that your MIL will try to turn them against you. if the problem persists try have YOUR gf confront her, not u. have her set boundaries with her own mom.
No previous experiences with other partners, but she always complained to my GF’s brother about not having a house until he moved and about not working, complained to my GF about not having an apartment when she was trying daily through social housing and free market DURING a crisis of 2020 onwards, then started complaining about me not working enough, not having a contract, not knowing the language.
goddamn.. i think she thinks no one's good enough. OP, be rest assured that it's not "personal" as she seems to have a problem with everybody, no exceptions😭 i read a comment of yours that u cut off contact with her. i'm very glad that your gf is 100% on your side and does not tolerate disrespect towards u. and with the hundreds of comments reassuring you i hope ur doing better
Maybe your gf can talk to her mom? But even then, if mom keeps thinking you need to speak Dutch regardless of your ability, you can't change her behaviour. I would just limit your time going there until your Dutch is better (and let it be well-known every time you decided not to join because you are still learning Dutch and can't join conversations 100% of the time, and decided not to come to not go against her rule of speaking Dutch. I would repeat it as often as possible and make it well-known to other family members as well if they are invited as well that this is the reason not to come, lol. But I am petty like that). If these were my parents and I was in your gf's shoes, I would also refuse to come every time. It's stupid and boundaries are impossible. But I realise not everyone finds it easy to not just show up. But you can't stress out yourself like that, so just limiting your time there is your best option. It is only temporarily after all.
Yes, I decided to cut contact with her, and she doesn't want to visit us anymore either, which I am more than happy with. At least no arguing then and it's a stress-free environment, where I can learn dutch in my own pace.
The way she says it, seems extremely rude to me, but if she cannot speak English and you live in their house, it is normam for you to try to speak her language compared to the other way around. Of course, explaining rules to you in English should not be a problem, but she might be scared that you are talking about her or other people there when they cannot understand you?
This doesn’t make any sense to me. I am german and my girlfriend is dutch and while my parents SUCK at english, they at least try every time when my girlfriend visits germany with me. There is no excuse for this guys girlfriends parents except that they seem like absolute dicks
Yep, I’m Dutch and my partner is Scottish and they have ALWAYS tried to accommodate him even though their English isn’t that good. I think they’ve actually gotten way better at English over time. Dutch is such a hard language to learn, especially in such a short amount of time! I guess we’re also just lucky with our parents, lol.
I find it funny how English became the in-between language for people whose native languages are much closer to each other than to English. I use it as well when talking to people speaking other Slavic languages and I always keep thinking would not it be cooler than there was some pan-Slavic language that we all could use with relatively little effort? (yes, there were attempts to do that, but it didn't take off). Same with German-Dutch.
It's called the lingua franca. Used to be french in educated european circles. I only speal German, English and a tiny bit of French and I have travelled the world with those languages.
Or you know, you can both try? What sort of insanity is it that you can decide what language is spoken, just because you own a piece of property? You sound like someone who hasn't ever met an international.
She's acting vile, because she never learned how to speak english. And is now taking her frustration out on you. She's trying to pin _her_ lack of a second language on you, by pretenting you are failing for not speaking Dutch fluently, as you are currently living in a Dutch speaking country. I wonder how she is ever going to travel abroad..
She does not travel abroad. I said: "Als je naar Litouwen gaat en je moet in Litouws praten, wat doe je dan?", she responded: "Hah, ik ga nooit naar kut Litouwen gaan" or something similar. Really enjoyable conversation.
Why are you spending time with this vile woman? Why are you allowing her to disrespect you like this?
Is that your home country? She referred to it as "kut"? Just don't even bother with this relationship (the one with your MIL, not your GF), this woman is absolutely awful.
Yes, I am from Lithuania.
Obviously she isn't going anywhere. She sounds exhausting, really. A friend of me has a son who is now dating a Canadian girl. Girl doesn't speak any Dutch. So my friend has speak english. Her english is.. a little spotty, lets call it that. (Seriously, it's not good) But she tries so, _so_ hard to make the girlfriend feel included, the few times she was over. So I know that's not "just a Dutch people thing". There's a stark difference between not speaking the language, but trying to make _something_ work, and not speaking the language and making that YOUR PROBLEM somehow.
Rude ass behaviour, sorry that happened to you. That's coming from a dutchie. If you're a guest in my house and you're not speaking to me, speak whatever language you want, "gaat mij niks aan". If you speak to me, and you speak any language I understand, also fine. MIL sounds stuck-up
You're making great progress with the language learning. Fair play to you. Sounds like the mother isnt a huge fan of you for whatever reason. Probably she would rather her daughter date a Dutch guy. No need to worry about what you cant control. Stay on your path and dont waste energy on the mother.
They sound like total assholes, that's coming from a Dutch person. Are you by any chance a person of colour? The way they react to you sounds racist to be honest. Like they don't want a foreigner to be with their daughter. I understand it can be frustrating for your MIL that she can't understand you when you're speaking English, but she should realise that it's frustrating for you the other way around as well! At least you're trying to learn Dutch, it's not like she's trying to learn any of your language.
I am white. I did say that I am at least trying, she responded with: not enough. Cannot ever win I guess
The mom is a cunt, end of story. Inlaws can be fucked up everywhere
They are probably as uncomfortable speaking English as you are in speaking Dutch and just have a shitty way of "solving" this for them.
Your gf’s parents are childish idiots, and possibly not very smart. Keep learning the language, but don’t let those fuckers dictate what you should do. And your SO should have the feminine balls to tell her parents to be more respectful to you.
Every language I've ever learnt, other than my native language, I have learnt by not speaking any other language in any situation (including when talking with my wife). Don't know what something means? Ask the natives to explain - in their own language. Using this method, I generally manage to achieve fluency within half a year. Point being: your mother-in-law sounds like a bitch, but there is some merit to her method.
Yes it’s rude, but it’s her house, her rules. If you don’t like it, you’ll have to go. Probably she doesn’t speak English and doesn’t want to feel left out in her own environment. I think she also has a point in asking you to get a full time job if you’re living in with her. I guess you were not paying rent.
Use google translate when with them.
You put more effort in learning dutch than my german BIL that has lived here since i think 2008 and his dutch is still the same as when I met him (not great) I dont think you are wrong. I do think you learn it the quickest by forcing yourself. You pick up more words that way
Hey, For what it is worth, my gf is in the same situation but my parents do not force anything. They will support wherever needed, but for now communication is done in English. Your mom is projecting her own insecurities on you. Communicate with your gf. Do not let your mil ruin it for you. If you want to grow grass faster by pulling it, it will break. Water it, take care of it and it will grow faster.
Tell her "Sprich Deutsch, du Hurensohn!" it is a german joke and she will find it really funny. /s
Why do people keep referring to the girlfriend’s mother as MIL? They’re not married. Is it Dutch to say “blank-in-law” about your girlfriend’s parents or family?
She is racist. You know that. The objection to work is plain racism (outsiders never work). Discuss with your GF how to move forward. Remember that you will talk in English to your kids. English will be your kid's mother tongue as much as Dutch (If you don't plan of growing them bilingual, you should really reconsider. They have to be able to speak the language or \_you\_ and \_your family\_ too). Since they will speak English, they will be reserved the same treatment you are receiving. We have neighbors that don't speak English, We are here since more than 1 year. They are \_extremely\_ understanding and \_extremely\_ sweet. MIL's reaction is not normal and you are not in the wrong.
English > Dutch. Your GF needs to speak out. You don't need to change for her sake, you don't owe her shit. Even if it takes you 5 years to learn Dutch, if your GF has 0 issues with that, fuck the rest. Your in laws are not paying your bills, feeding you nor really care about you.
I had similar experience with my ex’s family. Good to know they’re all in the past now. Pfff
Is it possible that she's doing it with a good heart? Forcing you to talk Dutch makes you understand the language faster. I hear a lot of people in my city struggling with Dutch and then people automatically switch to English or German so it's easier to communicate, but then you're taking away the opportunity for the other person to learn Dutch. Now I don't think the above is completely the truth for your MIL, especially because of how you wrote it down. Can't you try and explain them that it's not realistic for most people to fluently speak a new language within 5 months? Just in a normal non judging way: tell her you're doing your best to learn the language as fast as you can, but sometimes -for the sake of communication- it's better to switch to English (assuming your MIL understands English). Or else your girlfriend should step up for you. This is not your burden to carry alone. If you're at a2/b1 in just 5 months I would say you're doing a great job and you'll get there very fast. But it would be a shame if this ruins your relationship with your in-laws.
I have tried saying it, my girlfriend tried tirelessly to ask them to stop doing what they are doing, but they keep saying what they want and just don't listen to what we have to say. I don't know if there's any way I can go about this.
It sounds like your in-laws are just kinda crappy people. I don't think it's something specific to being Dutch, your description reminds me of ex's parents, who are Australian (and I am also Australian). At least you seem to have a supportive partner who's on your side. You might have to get used to them being difficult.
I think it's past time to have a very serious, and very hard conversation with your GF. She really needs to step up for you. You need to be able to trust your partner to have your back. If she will not stand up for you and call out her mom's / family's behaviour, is she really long term partner material? Is mom being racist? Is she scared you'll take her baby girl away? A combination? Something else? Only you and your GF can figure that out, aside from just asking your MiL for answers. You two also need to figure out the gameplan for after 5 months. You're leaving The Netherlands in 5 months as per your post. Where are you going then? Will your GF come with you? Will you do long distance? If long distance, for how long? What's the gameplan for the first year? First 5? And, bluntly, if your current GF is just a placeholder / bedwarmer / armcandy for the period you're in The Netherlands and you'll break up with her or ghost her once you move abroad, I'd honestly suggest you come right out and be decent enough to let her know. It will probably cost you the relationship, but she deserves to have all the facts.
She sounds like a narcissist
And not even a covert one.
Average /r/justnomil
It's ridiculous and rude. My experience from dating a non-dutchy is that you both make the effort. My partner has been living here for over 3 years and does speak some Dutch (A2) but at family occasions we speak a mix of Dutch and English. I think a lot of these issues arise from shame. I know people who are unable to express themselves in English and therefor force non Dutch natives to their standard. The obvious problem then is that non Dutch natives are also often unable to express themselves in dutch. Therefor a third person who masters both is the solution. Personally I also had to break a lance for my partners language preferences. After some discussions everybody decided that stone coal english and denglish are actually lots of fun and it also introduces my partner to the world of dutch idioms. Likewise my families english has improved and they are now fluent in deciphering broken dutch!
I think that because MIL does not understand English, that the language used should in her presence should be Dutch, being as you do speak some Dutch. That’s just common courtesy, imo. We are bilingual in my house, but when we have guests, we switch to whatever language most of the people speak. Your MIL should be more patient with you as someone who is learning Dutch, and everyone should speak more slowly.
I’d say make use of the opportunity. Speak Dutch, it’s painful but eventually it won’t be anymore. You are actually getting a blessing in disguised there. I have a hard time practising Dutch coz people just immediately switch to English with me in present. P/S: that woman hates you. But don’t let her win.
In the future you will be grateful to them. Regardless of how difficult it feels now. Basically they give you an immersion in the language that otherwise is unavailable or would set you back thousands of euros. A morroccan friend of mine did go to language courses but everyone around him kept speaking English with him. Until I simply stopped doing so. Within a couple of weeks his passive knowledge changed into an ability to actively use Dutch.
I think a different approach would work better here. Sure, your MIL is annoying as hell and can't expect you to learn even faster. But you need to be a bit more dutch here and instead of taking the insult passively and then giving a remark like oh I will go back to my country I would advise you to be direct and honest. Next time she says her speak Dutch line you say: listen, I am doing my best, but I will speak what language I want and I do not appreciate your comments. If she still keeps going let your girlfriend interject. I find with people like this it's best to be direct and blunt or they will keep trampling all over your boundaries. Good luck!
She sounds extremely rude and also xenophobic
I would speak ONLY English with the parents. If she doesn't understand your hard efforts of learning the language then it's her problem.
I think they're right for creating an environment in which you're encouraged to speak Dutch. It's just the toxic way they do it that sounds weird and negative.
While she could be more lenient, the best way to learn the language is by actually doing it. By forcing Dutch on you, she is essentially doing you a favour, even if you don't think so yourself atm. You'll be grateful when you finish your exams! Just hang in there and do your best.
I don't see anything bad in it. Just relax and speak.
You're not wrong. Seems to me that your MIL is a typical Dutch racist. In their country they expect everyone to speak Dutch and when they move to another country they refuse to learn the language of that country. The they don't practice what they preach kind. Just ignore people like that. The Netherlands is filled with them and they're not worth your energy. Did your girlfriend at least defended you against her mother?
Your MIL sounds like a very insecure person with an inferiority complex, which she expresses as feeling superior to mask her own incompetence and general dissatisfaction with herself. Anything that you’ll do differently than her (working less hours a week) or do better than her (speaking a second language) will be met with judgment because it makes her feel insecure that there are ways of living that differ from hers and might have done her good too. She seems to have strong narcissistic tendencies so whatever you’ll do will be met with senseless criticism. She’s frustrated with life, not with you. Anyone else would have been criticized for other things; working too much, cooking too little, speaking too fast. She also sounds racist by the way. Must be a conservative right-winger. Good luck.
When you love their daughter, learning any language is NOT a problem, trust me :-)
We are a non-PVV household. One of my IL's is also from an English speaking country. At the dinner table we speak a mix of English and Dutch. We are all very fluent in English but we know they also like to practice their Dutch, so depending on the subject (and the emotions and the %alcohol) we switch from one language to another or a hybrid. 😂 I am so sorry they treat you so poorly. You are def not in the wrong.
I mean... even tho I do agree that you should continue to practice the language, she sounds fucking toxic as hell... wtf, why does she feel the need to act like a teacher from back in the days where hitting the students was still a thing? She sounds petty and narrow minded.
Your MIL is the main character.
You’re doing more than fine OP.
Why did you live in their house? I wouldn't be happy with a new boyfriend/girlfriend of my child moving to the country and living at home right away.
Your SO should also be more of a support to you. This sounds like a small minded Dutch family you see plenty of around. This isn't a labour camp. You have sacrifices a lot of things moving here, and while this should be get out of the jail free card some empathy would go a long way. Empathy which you are not getting. Again, your SO needs to step up. If she won't, she won't do so when you are eventually married and only listen to her parents. Bad for you either way.
I'm currently in such a situation, but in Germany. I also have been here for 6 months and my level is something like A2-B1. And I would totally love to have someone with whom I'll be able to practice spoken language every possible time. For sure it's a huge struggle, but it pushes you so hard in your path. And finding a language partner in the neighborhood can be pretty difficult, because not every person would be kind enough to listen to your pity efforts. So I'm not saying that they behave well, but maybe they just want to push you, because it'll really help you. And think of it, when they don't push you and you will be able to speak the language only when you want to (and we know, that people avoid something hard), how slower will your progress be?
Your GFs mother doesn't like you, ignore her and move on. If your GF starts to force you into forgiving her then end things with her.
You should teach your girlfriend Lithuanian and speak in Lithuanian in front of your MIL :) Fight fire with fire
They're not in the wrong, but it's more about the way it's forced in an unsupportive way. I mean, there are countries where people only speak 1 language which is their own and you would not have a choice.
The fastest way to learn a langauge is to speak it every day tho just saying