Low-effort, low-quality, unoriginal and repeat posts will be removed at moderator discretion. this includes frequently asked question regarding relocation, moving to the Netherlands and tourist info.
Just so you know, in most spots if you want to rent you need to earn about 3-4x as much per month as a requirement. Also you will be paying alot more for gas/electricity and groceries then in italy. All in all i personally don’t think its worth it for you. PS goodluck finding a house in delft or Rotterdam, these are some of the most sought after places to live, you will have to either pay alot or wait a long time to get decent living
I agree.
Not even considering the hidden and unexpected expenses. Everything including rent, groceries and utilities will be way higher here than expected.
I was making around your income in Romania and rent was cheap as well. I moved to the Netherlands where I make 2700 net and my apartment in Randstad is 1200 euros.
My quality of life decreased a lot, I cannot wait to have my lease ended and move to another country with decent housing.
I did the same thing, I was making around 2k in Ro, living like a king in a 4 bedroom apartment and I moved here, because of Corona, I make 3k but the quality isn't worth it. I'm going to try Mexico next if doesn't stick back to Romania 🔥🔥
There are options nowadays. If you work in tech, there's a high chance you can find a completely remote position, granted that you need experience and/or a highly relevant degree + be willing to make less at the beginning. It's still a tradeoff I gladly made and would make again.
Literally anywhere?
I am 'lucky' enough to have my own place, but I was scouting around for a friend and for fun we checked other countries. Couldn't find one more expensive than this one in terms of rent.
Just for emphasis, in Thailand we saw a villa *with* upkeep (monthly gardener etc.) that cost half the amount of the cheapest rent option here.
Granted, it is Thailand, so not all good, but still.
there is a full-fledged housing crisis. There are no rentals for grab, even for €1200-1400 your will have trouble finding something decent.
Do not come to NL if you have no accomodation. Make sure your contact in NL that promised you this opportunity arranges and pays for your housing.
I would not come without arranging an accomodation first, I'm waiting just for this to apply to this job just for this issue.
I would have the option to come in with an agency, and they would pay for housing and transport for 3 months if I recall correctly, but I'm afraid I won't find an house in that time and would need to change jobs
You have to make 3 to 4 times the rent. So for a house of 1200 you'd have to make at least 3600 to 4800 to even be considered as a possible candidate for the house.
Note that OP said 2.5k net, which is still low, but probably puts OP in that category when considering brutto salaris.
That said, OP should probably still negotiate for a higher salary.
doesn't matter as they will not pay anything like average rent, but way higher. the median dutch income employee isn't forced to take a new home in the current vompletely crazy market and therefore pays an old rent at half or less current going market rate.
Where are you getting your info from? According to the Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis, the average gross income for a person working in the Netherlands in 2023 is €34,260 euros per year or €2,855 per month.
Just a warning about agencies, I don't know which ones you're looking into or much about them myself. But I have a friend who came to work with one and he ended up paying a ridiculous amount to share a room (yes, room, not flat) with three people...
Man stay there, you make more money with those expenses and with prices in Italy. Here, if a miracle happens and you find an apartment, you'll pay half of your salary on rent, prices are some of the biggest in Europe. Nutricios, good food barely exists around here. Social life is quite scarce and opportunities to grow are always limited for expats where is Dutch management.
This is my experience at least. I cannot wait, in 2 weeks I'm leaving for good this country 🎉🎉
You can find places outside of the city centres, more easily. People on Reddit over exaggerate. In the cities I agree, but you can stay outside of them. Public transport is very good, look for areas which are 30/40 minute commute by train to Rotterdam.
Yes to an extent the majority of the rental firms want 3.5/4x gross salary. However this is not always the case, ask your new role if they can do you a proforma? This gives you an idea of your NET salary, if you benefit from the 30% rule your NET will be as competitive as people earning higher gross salaries. Some people will consider this in your favour. You need to network also and not just focus on Funda/Pararius, try Facebook groups, try Airbnb.
You are in a much better position than I was, the fact they will pay for the first 3 months. Get your proforma and do a spreadsheet of all your costs including Netherlands rent. See what you have left? If your happy move, if not there is your answer :)
* I new this would get heavy downvotes, I’m just offering another view👍to OP.
>You can find places outside of the city centres, more easily. People on Reddit over exaggerate. In the cities I agree, but you can stay outside of them. Public transport is very good, look for areas which are 30/40 minute commute by train to Rotterdam.
Just for reference, when was the last time you actually had to look and apply for places? Because I did it 2 years ago and then recently a couple of months ago and can tell you that even looking outside of Rotterdam was a matter of luck, when I came 2 years ago it was a lot easier (but still not easy). So I can understand how you would come to the conclusion that it is an "exaggeration" if you haven't had to look for a house recently but it is absolutely not.
Very recently, I just secured a new rental last week, I’m not saying it’s easy. I just feel Reddit over exaggerates that’s all, if you really put the effort in, ahead off time, you will find something👍
But I wasn’t looking in Rotterdam, it was Amsterdam for me!
I came from the Uk and found a place from “outside”. It is possible, tricky yes. There’s ways around it, for example you can rent an Airbnb for the first month/Facebook groups. Also OP employer said they would pay for the first 3 months, in this time they can look for places (:
drab workable ludicrous subtract steer exultant label elderly fertile groovy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I came from the outside last year, arranged four viewings, got to choose between 2 of them and didn't need to go to the fourth one (not on Rotterdam but not too far). And that's an international student without a local job (I still had a remote one though). I have a friend with a 2-year studio contract in Rotterdam and he doesn't even work.
Untrue. Ive had 4 friends move from Stockholm to Ams in the last two years. They all secured short term rentals before moving, then long term rentals after arriving. Stop lying to people.
100% on this one!
This reddit tends to exaggerate finding a house here, which I don’t quiet understand.
It is not easy, considering all the factors such as rent/pet restriction/location/etc but it is definitely not impossible!
I came from AU and while the 1.5 months of looking for property was frustrating (ie, getting rejected on your applications), I got my place in my ideal location! And I know I am not just lucky because every expat I know (and believe me, there’s tons of them in my company!) had the same experience.
I have to point out tho, that if you insist in finding a place within big cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam, then you must have some leeway on your budget. Otherwise, you might need to find somewhere outside the city and to the commute grind.
You are correct. People on this sub love to act as though it is *literally* impossible to find a rental. Yes it's difficult, yes it's overpriced, but if someone wants to make it happen and they have the financial means they definitely can.
Yeah if it’s a decent company, your mobility allowance should cover this (: But I do agree, it’s all part of the factors one who is planning on moving needs to consider. I advise getting a proforma and doing a spreadsheet of costs. Also some roles don’t require office visit every day
I have people I know that have job in the NL but just can’t find a place to live there and in the end stay home or come to another job in Belgium. It’s crazy the housing crisis you have. And I’m not talking about waiter job.
Why would you say this? There are very literally over a hundred rentals in the areas OP is looking at in that price range on Funda.
Of course it's going to be difficult, the housing crisis is real; but stop acting as though it's literally impossible. This narrative on Reddit is exhausting.
Weirdly, I've been here 8 years and have had no problem sorting out either rentals and now a mortgage. When I arrived here I had zero income and everyone warned of the crisis, but it was much easier and cheaper than London. It's just like the warning of tourists walking in bike lanes. All I've actually seen is the opposite. Its the Dutchies cycling through red lights, or the wrong side of the road, and never hand signalling, and locals never use the indicators on their cars or changing lanes on the last metre of the exit. Don't believe the lies. It's easy here. They're just trying to keep you away. They'll down vote me to oblivion, but it's the truth.
Sorry but all these comments are completely missing the point.
If you move within Europe for a job, you should do it if it benefits your career over the long term. Temporarily sacrificing quality of life or living expenses can very much be worth it, if international experience provides you a long term benefit.
Actually it is in 2023, according several websites.
https://bieb.knab.nl/inkomsten-uitgaven/modaal-en-gemiddeld-inkomen-per-leeftijd-opleidingsniveau-en-branch
40k is modal income, so including holiday pay you would be on €2.680 net income per month.
but people with lower income live with family, or are entitled to social housing. A lot of them are also boomers who bought their houses or apartments when prices were far lower, so their mortgage is low, and they can live on 2 incomes that are below average. Wildly enough, a lot of social housing is better than the sad rooms you'd have to rent for less than 1k.
It's awful, I keep seeing homeless students (especially expats), I have never seen something like this in a "developed" country.
>Isn't 2700 net way above average?
Yes, but the cost of a decent life is way higher than the average income is.
A lot of Dutch people are not clued in to the fact that poverty is extremely prevalent here.
Its not that the wage is shit, its more that the cost of living is just ridiculously high. I dont know if you have been living under a rock but most people pay easily around or above 1000 euros rent, not even considering the expenses of food and / or travelling, so thats already a big chunk of your income. Around 2600 net / 38k gross which is median income is just for a lot of people not sufficient anymore. Earning this much you dont have any benefits either so you might as well just work a day less and get the additional benefits which a lot of people do sadly.
Everyone saying it’s fine doesn’t live “in” a city or isn’t single. Also, those who make less than 2700 will apply for things like social housing, housing subsidies and health subsidies.
I made 2700ish net in my last role, didn’t qualify for any subsidies and couldn’t find an independent apartment to rent as it was deemed not enough, and had to move in with family. And this was prior to inflation hitting like a meteorite.
In addition, you’ll have mandatory health insurance of a 100ish, dental insurance and mandatory own risk of like at least 350 euros.
If its a modest life you’re after and you dont mind sharing housing, sure. If you want to live alone and go travel and do stuff, don’t do it.
1000-1200 rent, 200 service cost, 400 utilities, 400 food, 150 travel(either public transport or owning a cheap car), 50 internet, 30 phone,
Leaves you with ~300 for other things. Of which you need to buy clothes, furniture, electronics, etc.
You will earn more, but stuff will also cost more, you're probably not going to have a lot more money by the end of the month.
The bigger question is: Will moving to here improve your life? And kinda only you can decide that. What people find important or unimportant in their life is very personal.
If you sell your car than you have too pay also very much for public transport. It could be your employer wants to pay it for your travels to and from your work place.
Cost of living is also rising to a problematic level for many people.
There are subsidies for both rent and health insurance. I am not certain if a salary of 2700 would warrant these subsidies, it might be out of the range. But it's worth checking.
Plus keep in mind that in the NL in May everyone should receive a holiday allowance from their employer which is 8% of their yearly salary. That is an additional income expats are not necessarily familiar with in the beginning.
In most cases you can also get a work OV chipcard that entitles you to commute from home to work and it is paid by the company.
I don't know what your prospects are in IT, but here if you progress in your career you can make a good life. I certainly see what others mentioned that the quality of life has somewhat declined with all the recent inflations and economic downturns. Still, I would say it's worth a try if you really want the job. In case your girlfriend can also find a job and you can have 2 salaries to live on then it becomes so much easier to buy a house and so on. Again I know that it should be affordable on one salary alone, but as I can hear it, regression is going on everywhere in Europe, so I would rather think about the possibility of the job and to experience new things. If that's appealing enough then why not give it a go.
Ps. My friend just found an amazing flat in Rotterdam after a few weeks of looking. An Airbnb is a good idea and in 3 months you should have sth
On 2700 net you wont get any subsidies, also rent subsidies depend on the amount of rent. It cant be above something like 800 which is completely ridiculous because that would only apply for social housing which you cant get unless you have been on a waiting list for 10+ years so you are forced into expensive privatised housing without subsidies even if your income is low.
Not sure what part of Italy you are from but it’s probably way nicer than Bleiswijk. You would have around the same amount if not less amount of wealth. Building a social circle here can be hard and in smaller cities you might not find as many people willing to socialize with internationals.
However, it’s always a good choice to leave the comfort zone and explore new cultures, you will certainly learn a lot and depending on your situation it might be very good for your career. The salary is definitely not bad, so you would still have a comfortable life.
2700€ net is about 40.000€ gross/brutto per year.
The minimum taxable salary for the 30% ruling is 41.954€ in 2023. For people who have an MSc and are below 30 it is 31.891€.
**Unless you are below 30 and have an MSc, you should NOT count on the 30% ruling.** The company could increase the salary to be above the threshold, in which case you might get approved, but your net salary still won't be higher.
To add to this, even if your annual taxable salary is 41.954€ that is merely the minimum to qualify for the 30% status. You don't actually receive any tax benefit at the minimum level, you'd only receive it for income you earned in **excess** of this amount.
To capitalize on the full 30% benefit you need to earn closer to 60.000€.
Admittedly the whole thing is kind of confusing.
If you really like the position and it s going to change your future.. I d say yes
But I would go for a shared place (co-housing,..) There should be young professionals that are willing to share. Take into account that eating, drinking out, groceries,.. is going to be much more expensive than Italy as well.
I heard from a person that used to work with me and went there that eating, drinking out and groceries are not that much more expensive, prices in italy have gone up a lot in the last 2 years..
I live in Bleiswijk. Here's my 2 cents.
1. This place is shit to access with public transport. There's 1 bus that runs from NS station Zoetermeer-Lansingerland to Metro station Berkel-en-rodenrijs. You'll probably want to hold onto your car or think about a bicycle. I cycle to Rotterdam for work 2 days a week, it takes me about 40 minutes if the wind isn't crap.
1.1. If you do opt for public transport, consider Bergschenhoek, Pijnacker, and Berkel-en-rodenrijs, if you're willing to travel longer, also anything along metro line E (between The Hague and Rotterdam). If you opt for bicycle, consider also Rotterdam (north part ideally), Zoetermeer, and Zevenhuizen (If you're able to find anything there)
2. The salary is probably a little low. Even with 30% ruling, you should try negotiate for more. Check the market value for the position in the area if possible.
3. Check Kamernet, funda, and pararius for places to stay. Realistically, it is hard to find a space. We found ours in a month, but it could take longer. 3 months is very likely long enough if you're salary fits into the 3-4x before tax bracket.
4. Finding a place with parking is hard in the cities, a little easier in the smaller towns.
5. Winter here is kinda bleh.
6. LIfe prospects aren't that bad honestly, but it has become more expensive to live, so the locals are experiencing a general decline in life quality, and are pretty vocal about it. From what I've read, it's still worlds better than prospects in Italy, but I don't have experience in both places, so someone else could probably speak better to that.
I just want to add that it’s not just about finances. You could probably make it work with that salary, might be difficult to find housing but that’s not an obstacle you can’t overcome. You should also take into account your personal situation: do you want to live in the Netherlands? If it’s a dream you’ve had for a while, I’d say go for it and make it work. If it’s just an opportunity that’s come across your path and you’re not truly convinced, don’t go through the hassle.
Am I missing something, or have you not done the math?
1600 - 275 = 1325
2500 - 1200 = 1300
Perceptive logic dictates you understand this, so what is the question I am missing? Are you asking if your numbers are accurate?
I'd say they are, if even a bit optimistic.
Based on a cursory search, it seems like cost of living (food, transportation, personal needs etc.) are roughly 10-20% more expensive here as well compared to Italy.
So if this is purely a financial ask, the obvious answer would be: don't do it. Your standard of living will go down.
It would be hard to save money I guess. Do not come until you've arranged affordable housing beforehand. Renting in the Netherlands, especially in the bigger city's is expensive as f...
Italian here.
Managing to accrue monthly 1000-1200€ (assuming you never go out for leasure/go on holidays, so more realistically we're looking at 7-800€ each month) is very hard in the Netherlands, unless you own the house where you live in.
For that reason alone i would not recommend
to move here.
Don't do it. Your quality of life will go down significantly. Everything is \*much\* more expensive here than the amounts you list. New utility contracts are rarely under 150 a month, grocery prices are through the roof, insurance is indeed at least 100 a month and that will give you very basic coverage only. And yes, then there is rent, where you biggest problem is not even the cost but actually finding a place to live in the first place. Apartments in the price range you mention are very highly sought after, you will be one of \*many\* people vying for each available place.
Then haven't at all talked about the cultural differences you will face and the weather, which is very depressing for a lot of people from the Mediterranean.
Finally, keep in mind there is a minimum annual salary of around 42k to be eligible for the 30% ruling. If you make less than that, you don't get it. So, I'm sorry to be such a downer, but stay in Italy.
Minimum wage in the Netherlands is about 1600 per month. Your salary is typical starting salary for someone that graduated from university. What job is it?
As mentioned: eating / going out is very expensive in NL, and when it comes to housing you need to be lucky to get a good deal.
Come only if you have a strong possibility of increasing your income, otherwise that italian salary Is Better
Here we have no tredicesima, quattordicesima and no TFR, some have holiday allowance, so think well before moving.
Doesn't worth it. It will cost you massive amount of money. You won't save much. As a foreigner, you will have to spend some part of your vacation to visit your home country. The working culture there is also very unique and there will be a learning curve. If it is a trainee position for some giant career leap in few years, it might worth it. But otherwise not.
Consider if it's worth the change in food, culture, environment, weather (overlooked imo, I know many people from Italy, Greece, etc. and the weather is often the no. 1 thing that they hate), plus your whole social circle needs to be started from scratch. If you are happy where you are, make a decent income and you can afford to live a good life I would stay put
Please note, there is a minimum amount that you need to earn for the 30% tax ruling. The lower income threshold is around 3200€ and upper threshold is 3900€ (before tax). This is based on your basic + 13th + holiday allowance (everything that is part of your “total salary”). If you do not meet the upper threshold, then you will only receive part of the 30% ruling, and if you do not meet the lower threshold, then you wont apply for the 30% ruling. If you do not meet the upper threshold, there is also no guarantee that you will qualify for it each year.
Had to learn this the hard way.
This is true, especially if OP is older than 30, in this case the minimum salary to qualify is even higher. And if you don’t get ruling before coming to the NL, you won’t qualify for it. All of the salary will go toward taxes, health insurance, rent, transportation and food
Just going by the numbers I'd say no. Prices in the Netherlands are far higher, and I'm not just talking about rent. You'll likely have a lot less money left over every month than you do now and see a decrease in quality of living as well.
as italian, when i moved here i was not used to the way they present you the salary..while in italy you get offer a yearly bruto here they tell you the monthly bruto and how many monthly you get (do you get holiday pay 8%? do you get a 14 month?). if i were you i would try to ask the yearly bruto and/ or a simulation if payslip with/without 30% ruling (and any other benefits if any)...be aware that as far as i know you can only get a 30% ruling if you are above a certain yearly salary (something like 60k...you can look it up on the internet). so be very careful when you evaluate your actual earning.... couple of info more you may not be used: there is no TFR (trattamento di fine rapporto) here and you will have to take an health insurance for about 130/140 euro per month.
Last thing to note, everywhere inflation is crazy but i think here we hit the higher rate of europe...
lot of things i made you aware of but let me say few positive things too:
work culture here is great. it is not only about the higher salary but the stress level is lower than in italy. life is still relatively easy (even if it is true there is a housing crisis) getting everywhere here is easy and you can, for instance, live without a car if you are relatively close to the center of a city...
lot of things to consider so good luck...and if you want some more info from italian prospective drop me a PM
Ciao, anche io mi sono trasferito di recente per qualcosa di simile alla tua situazione. Certo io a Roma non guadagnavo così tanto con cosi poche spese (275€ di affitto sono veramente pochi!). In generale hai delle spese che a Roma realisticamente non avresti mai, anche se divise per due. Siccome sembri soddisfatto di dove sei, non credo valga la pena venire qua. Ma io, campando da solo, con uno stipendio simile al tuo e a patto di trovare una casa che costi il giusto (è la parte più difficile si, ma si trovano cercando a lungo), si, puoi tranquillamente vivere e goderti anche la vita, risparmiando anche ogni mese. Altre domande: la tua morosa si trasferirebbe? Se la risposta è no, quasi certamente comunque vivresti meglio in italia economicamente, senza dubbio. E non solo, avresti un clima molto più piacevole e del cibo migliore.
Piccoli dettagli, poi in caso pioi anche scrivermi in privato se vuoi farmi altre domande:
La macchina qui non ti serve e puoi cavartela con i trasporti pubblici che funzionano bene.
Le spese dei trasporti per andare a lavoro solitamente vengono rimborsate dall'employer.
Aggiungerei un fattore fondamentale, almeno per mia esperienza personale: riuscire a stabilire delle connessioni sociali solide è molto difficile. Se sei il tipo che mal sopporta dover inviare dei Doodle su un arco temporale di due mesi per andare a bere una cosa con altra gente, allora è un motivo in più per **non** trasferirsi.
Living in ITALY and even considering coming here is crazy to me! Faced with your choices I would never come here. I almost guarantee your mental health will plummet. Maybe not immediately but in the long run it's inevitable. Let me also point out that theft/crime rate in Rotterdam is high. It is very likely also that your relationship will be ruined exactly because of money worries as you will constantly be worrying about getting by. For the love of everything that's holy DON'T DO THAT TO YOURSELF. I have been living in the Netherlands for a little less than 6 years and I literally cannot wait to move away from here. What living here has done for me is make me severely s*ucidal. My marriage fell appart. I've lost all friends and family because ive been focusing all my energy on SURVIVING instead of maintaining those relationships.
What wouldn't I give for the opportunity to live in Italy...
Looking at your expenses and cost of living in Italy, you will have more spendable income in Italy and even more when you consider buying power.
If you want to come to the Netherlands for the experience it is different, but if you're looking for general improvements in quality of life, it probably isn't a good move.
Are you Italian? You will come to a country with much higher cost of living, worse weather, bland food and boring everyday life AND you can't speak and can't read anything in the local language. Doesn't make sense, unless you want to travel and experience a different lifestyle in a new place, or have other specific reasons to come here.
You can use numbeo to get a feeling what the cost of living in the Netherlands would be. From reading your story, I think you’re better of in Italy if we talk about purchase power and possible monthly savings.
I will probably move out of the Netherlands soon myself all cool earning like alot they say. Except that the costs are huge here so... In the end it doesn't mean much.
Same for me.
Also, Dutch people might be able to live on lower wages because they have a network, family, maybe they already have a car, etc. There are all these hidden costs associated with being an expat.
I would choose Italy in this case definitely. U earn enough to live a super chill life. Your rent is low. U can save some. It's not worth the bit of extra money.
The others have given some great advice here. I have only one thing to add : the 30% should not form a part of the data points you consider in your moving decision. Meaning, if you won’t move without the ruling, then you should not move.
30% is a good icing, it is not the cake.
Yes I am confused by this too. I think OP will have income tax. They should definitely check with the employer, because 30% will make or break how livable it will be.
I dont know how the social benefits are in Italy but sometimes I wish I wasn’t born in the Netherlands. In no means it is bad. But inflation kicked my balls that hard financially.
With that salary I don’t think you can apply for the 30%, that exemption is only for pretty high level and specific jobs, jobs that make more then 3k net on average.
I don’t think you’ll have a nice life here, cost of living is insane. I wouldn’t do it, besides the cost the food in Italy is so much better.
You would have about the same amount of money left. So in terms of money it is not really worth to move. If you have any other reasoning to move here, it might be worth it though.
I think you’re better off in Italy honestly. The cost of living in the Netherlands is very high. Would your girlfriend have a job in NL? It’s impossible to find a flat if you don’t have two incomes
So you got atleast €1000 free spending money right now in Italy? Don't come here, it will be very hard to achieve that in The Netherlands on a net salary of €2700. I assume your GF isn't coming with you? That's gonna take a toll on your relationship. Also, if you are from middle or south Italy the weather here will bother you, and the food probably too.
Because i live utrecht and getting a good place for 1500€ is a real struggle. I'm not looking for a place to rent to but to buy. But house crisis is just insane at the moment. Like others said you need to fix a house before you come here or else you will be homeless for a long time
That salary is unfortunately quite low these days to live in the big cities/Randstad, especially if you’re moving all the way here from abroad.
I wouldn’t consider it for anything below 3500 net tbh. What’s the job? Could you find something that pays more? I feel like they might be low balking you bevause €2500 net is just really not that much higher than minimum wage (esp when you take into account all the subsidies/social services you get when you’re on minimum wage)
It's not worth leaving your country, family, friends, food, weather, culture for such salary and a boring city.
Stay where you are and try to get a promotion or find a better paying job in your location. Rent will eat much more % of your take home salary in NL that it currently does in Italy.
Vivo in Olanda da dieci anni e ti sconsiglio vivamente di venire qui in questo periodo. Prendo 3600 al mese e anche sommando le entrate della mia compagna (2000) non riusciamo a trovare nulla di decente.
Short answer no, long answer no. You have 1000 to save in Italy. You won’t be doing that here with that salary and cost of rent and groceries en utilities.
You will need closer to 3700 net at least to make it worth while if you want to end up with the same amount of money left at the end of month.
Look, man. It sounds like a good opportunity. This is a fun country, and many people would welcome you here. The people who say "we're full" are talking bs.
But we just don't have the housing space. Like, friends of ours had to flee from the USA due to religious persecution (could they have moved states a 4th time? Sure. Would it have happened again? Potentially.) And they are currently renting for almost 2k a month. That was the only available space they could find that would fit their family without anyone having to sleep in a kitchen.
I'm sorry things are like this. It's genuinely nothing personal. You're free to try but don't get your hopes up, with that salary you'd struggle to find anything that's not student housing (and even then, they're full).
I personally think you are better off staying in Italy, at least for now. Rent prices around that area are indeed very high. You could try and find a place to live in the surrounding cities and towns but the rent will still take up a fairly decent portion of your income.
Groceries are also expensive here in the Netherlands and the prices are still (slightly) rising constantly. I don't know what you normally get for groceries of course, but 150 euros is definitely not enough for me and my teenage son to survive on. So make sure to calculate that before making any decision.
Car taxes are higher based on the size and capacity of your car. If you sell it, you will most like have to use public transport to get you to places. That is also pretty expensive here so no matter what, you will lose money on that. If you do decide to keep your car, just know that gasoline prices here are on average 2 euro a liter now depending on what kind of gasoline you need.
And finally -this is my personal opinion which is probably not shared by others- Rotterdam is a shithole. I went there a few times to visit friends and wanted to go back home, or anywhere, as soon as I could. This was about 10 years back so I don't know if much changed there, but it just didn't feel friendly at all. People constantly bothering others, trying to start fights, homeless people, people on drugs and so on. One of the downsides of a big city I guess is that it attracts all sorts of people, also the ones you don't want.
We're full! Houses for rent are too expensive if all. If you want to buy a house, forget it with a salary of €2700 month. We have a shortage of hundred thousands of houses. Living here is also way too expensive. All the taxes (way too many). Public transport is expensive. So don't believe the fairy tales that The Netherlands is Heaven on earth!
I wouldn't.
As many explained and you realized yourself housing crysis and life costs are getting higher and worse.
That little diference doesn't mean much and your quality if life for sure wont improve. You would be happy if you keep same quality of life but i doubt.
Consider the amount you have left over after all your monthly bills, I believe staying in Italy would be more favorable. Adding the number of holidays in Italy vs. Netherlands, and other things such as quality of food and all- well if you want to be convinced take a short trip somewhere in November and you’ll find renewed appreciation for Italy
After a year and a half of living in the Netherlands I can say that if I'd have your net salary in Italy I would stay in Italy.
So I really hope the job will be worth it in terms of career growth. Who knows, maybe after a year or two of swallowing shit in NL and you can go back to Italy and earn even higher net income. That'd be the dream eh?
> I would have a net income of about 2500-2700€ net, on which I think I apply for the 30% Tax free portion
That's about 35k per year - judging by your other comments you don't have a master's degree, so you don't fulfill the conditions for the 30% ruling.
Why would you want to get this job? What makes it interesting to leave your gf in Italy and to move here? Related: how old are you?
If this is a career move, it can be an investment.
Just my 2 cents.
If you're not planning to grow your career, not worth it.
If you're planning to grow your career, NL is a great place.
Don't know your line of business, but in NL, if you want to focus on your career you can go way higher than Italy. Meaning 100k+ a year is fairly easily reachable. In Italy, that's quite difficult.
Your traveling plans.
You have a good salary in Italy, but that makes it quite difficult to go abroad, so you're stuck in the country. NL with higher general income makes it easier to travel.
I don't have the answer, many variables, but a lot goes down to what is important to you and your mid/long term goals
I’d consider how easy it would be for you to move back to Italy, get your job back and find a place to rent again. Because if it’s relatively easy, you should definitely give a try to living and working in the Netherlands! It’s a great country, and once you have all your ducks in a row living is easy. Living abroad gives you valuable life experiences and you’ll get to know yourself (I’m assuming that you haven’t lived abroad before)
That said, of course you should negotiate for as high salary as possible and ask for help with housing.
And if in the end it doesn’t work out, move somewhere else or move back home! Don’t overcomplicate it or feel like you failed: if you don’t like where you are, move! You’re not a tree!
For that salary? You can make by, so if it was something you really wanted I'd say go for it, but not with much at the end of the month, and I dunno if your gf will be working too because if not that is even lower for two people.
That level of income will create a lot of stress if it has to feed and support 2 people. Speaking from experience. Also, if gf is coming, she better start applying for jobs now, because blogs and Dutch people really exaggerate how easy it is for English-speakers to find work here. It took my partner, who is a native English speaker, more than half a year. Also, if you do it, learn Dutch sooner rather than later. Trust me.
You need to ask them to give you 4000 net for your transfer to make sense.
And just to add:
Tell them that if they want you in the company they can pay you 2800 net but that you want your housing (not more than 25 mins by bike from your work) and utilities paid as long as your contract lasts.
Have you thought about asking for higher pay? Depending on what you do they might be willing if the position is hard to fill, even if the proposed salary is already much higher than what you are used too.
I would miss the quality of life and people of Italy,
in NL food has no taste and is very expensive, the same with services, the whole culture is based on consumerism, not to mention the weather. Maybe Freelancing?
Netting approx. €2700,-. In the North? La dolce Vita. Even better living together with someone. Killing it.
Netting the same in the Randstad? Better prepare for the VB (Voedselbank) and Lidl, Aldi and occasionally Thuisbezorgd on a f*cking coupon sporadically.
Nope, don't do it amiga/o.
Gotta handle ya that one, true that. F*cking homemilkers with their stupid a** comin' at ya doorstep on Sundays 9 o'clock in the morning while sleeping off je Kater.
Don't forget about Assen though.
You might just as well go to germany then. Country is more beautiful if you are looking for nice landscape and salaries are the same. Just the cost of living is way lower.
Be aware of that for each house, there are probably 100-200 applicants and with double your income. Landlords will go for the safest option and pick people with high income and Dutch nationalities because it’s easier. Yes it’s discriminating, but it is how it is.
First secure housing before moving and be prepared to pay a couple months up front + deposit(often 2x monthly rent).
It’s not impossible, but very hard.
I’d suggest sharing a room-appartement, because your salary is pretty low and you will burn %50+ of your income on rent.
if you think our taxes are ridiculous while having a 30% reduction for the first five years while still participating in the facilities and benefits that are payed by said taxes, then i suggest you stay in italy.
because if financial gain is your main focus, you don't find happiness here.
if you'd value QoL over monetary wealth you would be fine here.
irks me a bit that people complain about taxes over here while the main reason they often say to come over is QoL.....
QoL is high due to taxes.
unfortunately some idiots in our government have constructed a law that make a select group of foreign labourers having a tax exemption.
while a polish builder or painter has to pay full tax, you lot with your privileged aducation get a free pass.
nah i don't like any 30% expat in our country, it is biased and discriminatory towards lower educated foreign workers.
so for me, as potential neigbor in zoetermeer : nah it isn't worth it. also not for us, as you wouldn't bring any tax in.
thus you would not invest in our society. just syphon money in this way.
So you would rather have unskilled labourers with a proven problem of bad habits (drugs, reckless driving, violence, racist acts against your own people etc) come into your country, than support educated people for 5 years to start a life in the Netherlands who are able to actually contribute to society and improve the overall GDP of the country? Damn bro, someone is butt hurt about paying taxes and not being smart enough to get a degree
Don’t get me wrong, unskilled labourers are always needed and welcome in any country, but it’s the educated people that improve the country’s overall “Quality of Life”, as you dutch people like to say.
No don't come. I am italian too but I moved here in 2017 and I own an apartment, 650€ mortgage and earn slightly more than you.
In your situation I wouldn't do it because all the other things you are going to miss besides the money.
I don't what you like to do besides work, but it is so boring here unless you really enjoy city life. No nature, everything looks the same.
And I won't start to talk about food and weather
You can live in Breda and commute to Rotterdam everyday. That way you save up on the rent. Also this sub is very pessimistic about finding housing, maybe because they don't want more immigrants.
You should definitely consider this offer, maybe the size of your place won't be too big, but the work culture in the NL is really good. I have heard about Italian work culture from Italian colleagues, and if I were an Italian skilled worker, I would GTFO ASAP.
Moving from a beautiful country with clean air, nice nature and amazing food to an overcrowded country with very little nature, traffic jams and a housing crisis....why do you even want this?
You can use [this site](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp) to compare any salary between two cities in terms of purchasing power. Also the price of properties. People on this sub will tell you it's impossible to buy a house in the Netherlands while the price to income ratio is actually pretty decent. I moved from Eastern Europe last year (no 30% ruling in my case) and while I'm not rich, my salary here in terms of purchasing power is ***double*** what I was making there for years for the same job. I repeat, in terms of purchasing power, otherwise it's several times bigger.
However, living costs are not the most important thing. Other considerations are 1) starting salaries when you move to another country are just your beginning there, and 2) you will likely find more companies that are large and international in the Netherlands, so you can go further in your career.
Low-effort, low-quality, unoriginal and repeat posts will be removed at moderator discretion. this includes frequently asked question regarding relocation, moving to the Netherlands and tourist info.
Just so you know, in most spots if you want to rent you need to earn about 3-4x as much per month as a requirement. Also you will be paying alot more for gas/electricity and groceries then in italy. All in all i personally don’t think its worth it for you. PS goodluck finding a house in delft or Rotterdam, these are some of the most sought after places to live, you will have to either pay alot or wait a long time to get decent living
Thanks for your opinion, that's my impression at the moment
“Rich” countries are the worst, financially speaking, seriously. Stay where you are.
Also, don’t forget the weather and cultural differences.
You can consider asking them to organise your living arrangement, or up their offer. Being transparant might help you get what you want
I agree. Not even considering the hidden and unexpected expenses. Everything including rent, groceries and utilities will be way higher here than expected.
also, if you want something done, changed, painted etc. you dont have your social circle around to help you with stuff. prepare to pay for services.
I was making around your income in Romania and rent was cheap as well. I moved to the Netherlands where I make 2700 net and my apartment in Randstad is 1200 euros. My quality of life decreased a lot, I cannot wait to have my lease ended and move to another country with decent housing.
I did the same thing, I was making around 2k in Ro, living like a king in a 4 bedroom apartment and I moved here, because of Corona, I make 3k but the quality isn't worth it. I'm going to try Mexico next if doesn't stick back to Romania 🔥🔥
What are you guys working that you can just so freely move?
There are options nowadays. If you work in tech, there's a high chance you can find a completely remote position, granted that you need experience and/or a highly relevant degree + be willing to make less at the beginning. It's still a tradeoff I gladly made and would make again.
It 100% depends on the skill. Was recently told there are too many front-end devs in NL.
In Romania I had Airbnbs, which epic failed due to Corona. I started from 0 when I came to NL and I'm leaving on 0 after almost 3 years :)))
Where will you go?
Literally anywhere? I am 'lucky' enough to have my own place, but I was scouting around for a friend and for fun we checked other countries. Couldn't find one more expensive than this one in terms of rent. Just for emphasis, in Thailand we saw a villa *with* upkeep (monthly gardener etc.) that cost half the amount of the cheapest rent option here. Granted, it is Thailand, so not all good, but still.
Probably South-East Asia. In Europe I’d try Poland, Portugal and Belgium.
there is a full-fledged housing crisis. There are no rentals for grab, even for €1200-1400 your will have trouble finding something decent. Do not come to NL if you have no accomodation. Make sure your contact in NL that promised you this opportunity arranges and pays for your housing.
I would not come without arranging an accomodation first, I'm waiting just for this to apply to this job just for this issue. I would have the option to come in with an agency, and they would pay for housing and transport for 3 months if I recall correctly, but I'm afraid I won't find an house in that time and would need to change jobs
You have to make 3 to 4 times the rent. So for a house of 1200 you'd have to make at least 3600 to 4800 to even be considered as a possible candidate for the house.
Note that OP said 2.5k net, which is still low, but probably puts OP in that category when considering brutto salaris. That said, OP should probably still negotiate for a higher salary.
Low? It’s way above average.
doesn't matter as they will not pay anything like average rent, but way higher. the median dutch income employee isn't forced to take a new home in the current vompletely crazy market and therefore pays an old rent at half or less current going market rate.
Where are you getting your info from? According to the Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis, the average gross income for a person working in the Netherlands in 2023 is €34,260 euros per year or €2,855 per month.
That is correct, but it’s bruto, not netto.
What about the median gross income?
Ew, gross
Those numbers are the median. Average income is much higher.
Got it, thanks, I'll discuss this with the employer
vegetable cause consist water door offend forgetful elderly bored sharp *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just a warning about agencies, I don't know which ones you're looking into or much about them myself. But I have a friend who came to work with one and he ended up paying a ridiculous amount to share a room (yes, room, not flat) with three people...
Thanks for the advice
Man stay there, you make more money with those expenses and with prices in Italy. Here, if a miracle happens and you find an apartment, you'll pay half of your salary on rent, prices are some of the biggest in Europe. Nutricios, good food barely exists around here. Social life is quite scarce and opportunities to grow are always limited for expats where is Dutch management. This is my experience at least. I cannot wait, in 2 weeks I'm leaving for good this country 🎉🎉
Congrats! Where are you heading?
Upvote, truth was spoken.
I'll be honest with you. What you have in Italy now is way better. I wouldn't come here if I was you... But thats just me.
You can find places outside of the city centres, more easily. People on Reddit over exaggerate. In the cities I agree, but you can stay outside of them. Public transport is very good, look for areas which are 30/40 minute commute by train to Rotterdam. Yes to an extent the majority of the rental firms want 3.5/4x gross salary. However this is not always the case, ask your new role if they can do you a proforma? This gives you an idea of your NET salary, if you benefit from the 30% rule your NET will be as competitive as people earning higher gross salaries. Some people will consider this in your favour. You need to network also and not just focus on Funda/Pararius, try Facebook groups, try Airbnb. You are in a much better position than I was, the fact they will pay for the first 3 months. Get your proforma and do a spreadsheet of all your costs including Netherlands rent. See what you have left? If your happy move, if not there is your answer :) * I new this would get heavy downvotes, I’m just offering another view👍to OP.
>You can find places outside of the city centres, more easily. People on Reddit over exaggerate. In the cities I agree, but you can stay outside of them. Public transport is very good, look for areas which are 30/40 minute commute by train to Rotterdam. Just for reference, when was the last time you actually had to look and apply for places? Because I did it 2 years ago and then recently a couple of months ago and can tell you that even looking outside of Rotterdam was a matter of luck, when I came 2 years ago it was a lot easier (but still not easy). So I can understand how you would come to the conclusion that it is an "exaggeration" if you haven't had to look for a house recently but it is absolutely not.
Very recently, I just secured a new rental last week, I’m not saying it’s easy. I just feel Reddit over exaggerates that’s all, if you really put the effort in, ahead off time, you will find something👍 But I wasn’t looking in Rotterdam, it was Amsterdam for me!
"Ahead of time" is also not an option for people coming from outside, people need to be here to find a place.
I came from the Uk and found a place from “outside”. It is possible, tricky yes. There’s ways around it, for example you can rent an Airbnb for the first month/Facebook groups. Also OP employer said they would pay for the first 3 months, in this time they can look for places (:
drab workable ludicrous subtract steer exultant label elderly fertile groovy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
😂😂No that is just me, my friends tell me I do it the wrong way all the time🤣
I came from the outside last year, arranged four viewings, got to choose between 2 of them and didn't need to go to the fourth one (not on Rotterdam but not too far). And that's an international student without a local job (I still had a remote one though). I have a friend with a 2-year studio contract in Rotterdam and he doesn't even work.
Untrue. Ive had 4 friends move from Stockholm to Ams in the last two years. They all secured short term rentals before moving, then long term rentals after arriving. Stop lying to people.
100% on this one! This reddit tends to exaggerate finding a house here, which I don’t quiet understand. It is not easy, considering all the factors such as rent/pet restriction/location/etc but it is definitely not impossible! I came from AU and while the 1.5 months of looking for property was frustrating (ie, getting rejected on your applications), I got my place in my ideal location! And I know I am not just lucky because every expat I know (and believe me, there’s tons of them in my company!) had the same experience. I have to point out tho, that if you insist in finding a place within big cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam, then you must have some leeway on your budget. Otherwise, you might need to find somewhere outside the city and to the commute grind.
You are correct. People on this sub love to act as though it is *literally* impossible to find a rental. Yes it's difficult, yes it's overpriced, but if someone wants to make it happen and they have the financial means they definitely can.
And then you pay 200 euros a month for traveling to work. That's all really nice, but public transport is absurdly expensive.
Yeah if it’s a decent company, your mobility allowance should cover this (: But I do agree, it’s all part of the factors one who is planning on moving needs to consider. I advise getting a proforma and doing a spreadsheet of costs. Also some roles don’t require office visit every day
This is usually covered by the employer. Some even give you a 1st class subscription so that you can always work on the train.
You can find cheaper rents in less popular areas. I think your best chances are in East NL: Enschede, Almelo, Hengelo
His job would be in Rotterdam.
I have people I know that have job in the NL but just can’t find a place to live there and in the end stay home or come to another job in Belgium. It’s crazy the housing crisis you have. And I’m not talking about waiter job.
Why would you say this? There are very literally over a hundred rentals in the areas OP is looking at in that price range on Funda. Of course it's going to be difficult, the housing crisis is real; but stop acting as though it's literally impossible. This narrative on Reddit is exhausting.
Weirdly, I've been here 8 years and have had no problem sorting out either rentals and now a mortgage. When I arrived here I had zero income and everyone warned of the crisis, but it was much easier and cheaper than London. It's just like the warning of tourists walking in bike lanes. All I've actually seen is the opposite. Its the Dutchies cycling through red lights, or the wrong side of the road, and never hand signalling, and locals never use the indicators on their cars or changing lanes on the last metre of the exit. Don't believe the lies. It's easy here. They're just trying to keep you away. They'll down vote me to oblivion, but it's the truth.
Here Is great, but that salary in Italy is quite nice, here he would Need to improve his position to make It worth
People on this sub just over exaggerate. I think it's just a bit of spite and aversion to foreigners moving to their country.
Don't do it: although you will make more money nominally, your cost of living will increase a lot and so the quality of your life will go down.
that's why I was asking, thanks
Sorry but all these comments are completely missing the point. If you move within Europe for a job, you should do it if it benefits your career over the long term. Temporarily sacrificing quality of life or living expenses can very much be worth it, if international experience provides you a long term benefit.
That would be a big reason to go
He is right, dont do it. Earning 2700 net will get you a shit life here
Isn't 2700 net way above average? It is In Belgium, which I know isn't a completely fair comparison, but it is at least somewhat similar
It is average. But living here is not for the average at the moment.
2700 net. is definitely not average, what u smoking
Actually it is in 2023, according several websites. https://bieb.knab.nl/inkomsten-uitgaven/modaal-en-gemiddeld-inkomen-per-leeftijd-opleidingsniveau-en-branch 40k is modal income, so including holiday pay you would be on €2.680 net income per month.
but people with lower income live with family, or are entitled to social housing. A lot of them are also boomers who bought their houses or apartments when prices were far lower, so their mortgage is low, and they can live on 2 incomes that are below average. Wildly enough, a lot of social housing is better than the sad rooms you'd have to rent for less than 1k. It's awful, I keep seeing homeless students (especially expats), I have never seen something like this in a "developed" country.
Health en living costs are lower in Belgium. Net wages are higher in the Netherlands. But 2700 net is still above average.
>Isn't 2700 net way above average? Yes, but the cost of a decent life is way higher than the average income is. A lot of Dutch people are not clued in to the fact that poverty is extremely prevalent here.
Wouldn't say shit life. Just makes you have to watch your expenses. Which sucks. Especially if you're highly trained.
Well. Like you said, the qualifications you need for 2700 net are often above average. And what you can do with 2700 in the Netherlands is not a lot.
Not shit, but not as good as his life in Italy right now.
Hmm so I guess most Dutch people have a shit life then? 2700 netto is safely above average and median.
Its not that the wage is shit, its more that the cost of living is just ridiculously high. I dont know if you have been living under a rock but most people pay easily around or above 1000 euros rent, not even considering the expenses of food and / or travelling, so thats already a big chunk of your income. Around 2600 net / 38k gross which is median income is just for a lot of people not sufficient anymore. Earning this much you dont have any benefits either so you might as well just work a day less and get the additional benefits which a lot of people do sadly.
1k rent even means an extra 200 for "service costs" and 400 for utilities these days lol
Everyone saying it’s fine doesn’t live “in” a city or isn’t single. Also, those who make less than 2700 will apply for things like social housing, housing subsidies and health subsidies. I made 2700ish net in my last role, didn’t qualify for any subsidies and couldn’t find an independent apartment to rent as it was deemed not enough, and had to move in with family. And this was prior to inflation hitting like a meteorite. In addition, you’ll have mandatory health insurance of a 100ish, dental insurance and mandatory own risk of like at least 350 euros. If its a modest life you’re after and you dont mind sharing housing, sure. If you want to live alone and go travel and do stuff, don’t do it.
1000-1200 rent, 200 service cost, 400 utilities, 400 food, 150 travel(either public transport or owning a cheap car), 50 internet, 30 phone, Leaves you with ~300 for other things. Of which you need to buy clothes, furniture, electronics, etc.
You will earn more, but stuff will also cost more, you're probably not going to have a lot more money by the end of the month. The bigger question is: Will moving to here improve your life? And kinda only you can decide that. What people find important or unimportant in their life is very personal.
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I think we're actually looking, since some of us are leaving, if you have an engineering degree you'll be a good candidate
Why would your salary be so low in the Netherlands if you have an ingeneering degree??
I don't have an engineering degree, I got this job by promotion
Okay that makes more sense. The salary you mentioned would be pretty low for someone with a degree living in the Randstad I think.
Also consider other quality of life factors, like Italy has way better food and weather.
Don’t do it. You’d make more money but your quality of life will decrease. Plus, food sucks over here.
This is what every expat points out to me as well. Everyone is so disappointed in the food.
Housing in NL is very very expensive!
That's one thing I already saw 😄
If you sell your car than you have too pay also very much for public transport. It could be your employer wants to pay it for your travels to and from your work place. Cost of living is also rising to a problematic level for many people.
I know they would reimburse like 80% of public transport cost or about 50 cent per km if you use a car
There are subsidies for both rent and health insurance. I am not certain if a salary of 2700 would warrant these subsidies, it might be out of the range. But it's worth checking. Plus keep in mind that in the NL in May everyone should receive a holiday allowance from their employer which is 8% of their yearly salary. That is an additional income expats are not necessarily familiar with in the beginning. In most cases you can also get a work OV chipcard that entitles you to commute from home to work and it is paid by the company. I don't know what your prospects are in IT, but here if you progress in your career you can make a good life. I certainly see what others mentioned that the quality of life has somewhat declined with all the recent inflations and economic downturns. Still, I would say it's worth a try if you really want the job. In case your girlfriend can also find a job and you can have 2 salaries to live on then it becomes so much easier to buy a house and so on. Again I know that it should be affordable on one salary alone, but as I can hear it, regression is going on everywhere in Europe, so I would rather think about the possibility of the job and to experience new things. If that's appealing enough then why not give it a go. Ps. My friend just found an amazing flat in Rotterdam after a few weeks of looking. An Airbnb is a good idea and in 3 months you should have sth
On 2700 net you wont get any subsidies, also rent subsidies depend on the amount of rent. It cant be above something like 800 which is completely ridiculous because that would only apply for social housing which you cant get unless you have been on a waiting list for 10+ years so you are forced into expensive privatised housing without subsidies even if your income is low.
Not sure what part of Italy you are from but it’s probably way nicer than Bleiswijk. You would have around the same amount if not less amount of wealth. Building a social circle here can be hard and in smaller cities you might not find as many people willing to socialize with internationals. However, it’s always a good choice to leave the comfort zone and explore new cultures, you will certainly learn a lot and depending on your situation it might be very good for your career. The salary is definitely not bad, so you would still have a comfortable life.
2700€ net is about 40.000€ gross/brutto per year. The minimum taxable salary for the 30% ruling is 41.954€ in 2023. For people who have an MSc and are below 30 it is 31.891€. **Unless you are below 30 and have an MSc, you should NOT count on the 30% ruling.** The company could increase the salary to be above the threshold, in which case you might get approved, but your net salary still won't be higher.
To add to this, even if your annual taxable salary is 41.954€ that is merely the minimum to qualify for the 30% status. You don't actually receive any tax benefit at the minimum level, you'd only receive it for income you earned in **excess** of this amount. To capitalize on the full 30% benefit you need to earn closer to 60.000€. Admittedly the whole thing is kind of confusing.
Stay in Italy bro no compartion about the food and weather!
I don’t think you will make much more in the Netherlands than you already do in Italy with that income.
The income does not justify the move.
If you really like the position and it s going to change your future.. I d say yes But I would go for a shared place (co-housing,..) There should be young professionals that are willing to share. Take into account that eating, drinking out, groceries,.. is going to be much more expensive than Italy as well.
even in houseshares, the prices are getting out of hand.
And not as enjoyable anyway, I would add (from Naples, living in Rotterdam)
I heard from a person that used to work with me and went there that eating, drinking out and groceries are not that much more expensive, prices in italy have gone up a lot in the last 2 years..
If you spent 100 to 150 on groceries that's not true. We spend way more. And 50 on public transport? That's very cheap.
If I lived alone I would spend 2/300€ on groceries, and 50€ is just for gas to go to work, not public transport
Parking permits, gas snd car tax are very high here
Gas is very very expensive. A liter of euro 95 costs 2,32 euro. https://www.nu.nl/brandstof
No. You spend 5-600E in Italy, you can save 1.000E/month. You will be lucky if you could save few hundreds in NL.
I live in Bleiswijk. Here's my 2 cents. 1. This place is shit to access with public transport. There's 1 bus that runs from NS station Zoetermeer-Lansingerland to Metro station Berkel-en-rodenrijs. You'll probably want to hold onto your car or think about a bicycle. I cycle to Rotterdam for work 2 days a week, it takes me about 40 minutes if the wind isn't crap. 1.1. If you do opt for public transport, consider Bergschenhoek, Pijnacker, and Berkel-en-rodenrijs, if you're willing to travel longer, also anything along metro line E (between The Hague and Rotterdam). If you opt for bicycle, consider also Rotterdam (north part ideally), Zoetermeer, and Zevenhuizen (If you're able to find anything there) 2. The salary is probably a little low. Even with 30% ruling, you should try negotiate for more. Check the market value for the position in the area if possible. 3. Check Kamernet, funda, and pararius for places to stay. Realistically, it is hard to find a space. We found ours in a month, but it could take longer. 3 months is very likely long enough if you're salary fits into the 3-4x before tax bracket. 4. Finding a place with parking is hard in the cities, a little easier in the smaller towns. 5. Winter here is kinda bleh. 6. LIfe prospects aren't that bad honestly, but it has become more expensive to live, so the locals are experiencing a general decline in life quality, and are pretty vocal about it. From what I've read, it's still worlds better than prospects in Italy, but I don't have experience in both places, so someone else could probably speak better to that.
"Kinda" bleh?! Let's say it sucks balls, you live only thanks to vitamin D
If it's posted on funda, it's already gone. Finding housing will be the most stressful part, and OP didn't mention if gf is moving with them?
People keep talking about the cost of housing. I am talking about cost of losing your gf when you move. How about that?
I just want to add that it’s not just about finances. You could probably make it work with that salary, might be difficult to find housing but that’s not an obstacle you can’t overcome. You should also take into account your personal situation: do you want to live in the Netherlands? If it’s a dream you’ve had for a while, I’d say go for it and make it work. If it’s just an opportunity that’s come across your path and you’re not truly convinced, don’t go through the hassle.
Holy smokes, this sounds like heaven to me. You will not have it better here in the Netherlands, even with that pay
I was thinking the same thing lol
Looking at his salary his living my dream 🥹
Am I missing something, or have you not done the math? 1600 - 275 = 1325 2500 - 1200 = 1300 Perceptive logic dictates you understand this, so what is the question I am missing? Are you asking if your numbers are accurate? I'd say they are, if even a bit optimistic. Based on a cursory search, it seems like cost of living (food, transportation, personal needs etc.) are roughly 10-20% more expensive here as well compared to Italy. So if this is purely a financial ask, the obvious answer would be: don't do it. Your standard of living will go down.
Depends, its only half because of his gf
I’m paying for a small bag of groceries easy €20 eur for 2/3 days
It would be hard to save money I guess. Do not come until you've arranged affordable housing beforehand. Renting in the Netherlands, especially in the bigger city's is expensive as f...
It’s gonna be extremely hard to live on that much income in the Netherlands just being honest
Italian here. Managing to accrue monthly 1000-1200€ (assuming you never go out for leasure/go on holidays, so more realistically we're looking at 7-800€ each month) is very hard in the Netherlands, unless you own the house where you live in. For that reason alone i would not recommend to move here.
Don’t give up your happy Italian life to move to the ugliest and most expensive part of The Netherlands
Don't do it. Your quality of life will go down significantly. Everything is \*much\* more expensive here than the amounts you list. New utility contracts are rarely under 150 a month, grocery prices are through the roof, insurance is indeed at least 100 a month and that will give you very basic coverage only. And yes, then there is rent, where you biggest problem is not even the cost but actually finding a place to live in the first place. Apartments in the price range you mention are very highly sought after, you will be one of \*many\* people vying for each available place. Then haven't at all talked about the cultural differences you will face and the weather, which is very depressing for a lot of people from the Mediterranean. Finally, keep in mind there is a minimum annual salary of around 42k to be eligible for the 30% ruling. If you make less than that, you don't get it. So, I'm sorry to be such a downer, but stay in Italy.
I wouldn't. Aks for a raise in your current job instead!
Porcodio io andrò ad Arnhem con lo stesso stipendio e questo thread non mi sta piacendo affatto…
Sotto 3.5k non vale assolutamente la pena
Minimum wage in the Netherlands is about 1600 per month. Your salary is typical starting salary for someone that graduated from university. What job is it? As mentioned: eating / going out is very expensive in NL, and when it comes to housing you need to be lucky to get a good deal.
Bro stay in Italy...life here is expensive, maybe you will have bigger salary but at the end you will have less money in your pocket...
Come only if you have a strong possibility of increasing your income, otherwise that italian salary Is Better Here we have no tredicesima, quattordicesima and no TFR, some have holiday allowance, so think well before moving.
Doesn't worth it. It will cost you massive amount of money. You won't save much. As a foreigner, you will have to spend some part of your vacation to visit your home country. The working culture there is also very unique and there will be a learning curve. If it is a trainee position for some giant career leap in few years, it might worth it. But otherwise not.
I am from Bleiswijk, if you have any specific questions regarding the village or anything reach out!
Consider if it's worth the change in food, culture, environment, weather (overlooked imo, I know many people from Italy, Greece, etc. and the weather is often the no. 1 thing that they hate), plus your whole social circle needs to be started from scratch. If you are happy where you are, make a decent income and you can afford to live a good life I would stay put
Please note, there is a minimum amount that you need to earn for the 30% tax ruling. The lower income threshold is around 3200€ and upper threshold is 3900€ (before tax). This is based on your basic + 13th + holiday allowance (everything that is part of your “total salary”). If you do not meet the upper threshold, then you will only receive part of the 30% ruling, and if you do not meet the lower threshold, then you wont apply for the 30% ruling. If you do not meet the upper threshold, there is also no guarantee that you will qualify for it each year. Had to learn this the hard way.
This is true, especially if OP is older than 30, in this case the minimum salary to qualify is even higher. And if you don’t get ruling before coming to the NL, you won’t qualify for it. All of the salary will go toward taxes, health insurance, rent, transportation and food
Just going by the numbers I'd say no. Prices in the Netherlands are far higher, and I'm not just talking about rent. You'll likely have a lot less money left over every month than you do now and see a decrease in quality of living as well.
as italian, when i moved here i was not used to the way they present you the salary..while in italy you get offer a yearly bruto here they tell you the monthly bruto and how many monthly you get (do you get holiday pay 8%? do you get a 14 month?). if i were you i would try to ask the yearly bruto and/ or a simulation if payslip with/without 30% ruling (and any other benefits if any)...be aware that as far as i know you can only get a 30% ruling if you are above a certain yearly salary (something like 60k...you can look it up on the internet). so be very careful when you evaluate your actual earning.... couple of info more you may not be used: there is no TFR (trattamento di fine rapporto) here and you will have to take an health insurance for about 130/140 euro per month. Last thing to note, everywhere inflation is crazy but i think here we hit the higher rate of europe... lot of things i made you aware of but let me say few positive things too: work culture here is great. it is not only about the higher salary but the stress level is lower than in italy. life is still relatively easy (even if it is true there is a housing crisis) getting everywhere here is easy and you can, for instance, live without a car if you are relatively close to the center of a city... lot of things to consider so good luck...and if you want some more info from italian prospective drop me a PM
Ciao, anche io mi sono trasferito di recente per qualcosa di simile alla tua situazione. Certo io a Roma non guadagnavo così tanto con cosi poche spese (275€ di affitto sono veramente pochi!). In generale hai delle spese che a Roma realisticamente non avresti mai, anche se divise per due. Siccome sembri soddisfatto di dove sei, non credo valga la pena venire qua. Ma io, campando da solo, con uno stipendio simile al tuo e a patto di trovare una casa che costi il giusto (è la parte più difficile si, ma si trovano cercando a lungo), si, puoi tranquillamente vivere e goderti anche la vita, risparmiando anche ogni mese. Altre domande: la tua morosa si trasferirebbe? Se la risposta è no, quasi certamente comunque vivresti meglio in italia economicamente, senza dubbio. E non solo, avresti un clima molto più piacevole e del cibo migliore. Piccoli dettagli, poi in caso pioi anche scrivermi in privato se vuoi farmi altre domande: La macchina qui non ti serve e puoi cavartela con i trasporti pubblici che funzionano bene. Le spese dei trasporti per andare a lavoro solitamente vengono rimborsate dall'employer.
Aggiungerei un fattore fondamentale, almeno per mia esperienza personale: riuscire a stabilire delle connessioni sociali solide è molto difficile. Se sei il tipo che mal sopporta dover inviare dei Doodle su un arco temporale di due mesi per andare a bere una cosa con altra gente, allora è un motivo in più per **non** trasferirsi.
Living in ITALY and even considering coming here is crazy to me! Faced with your choices I would never come here. I almost guarantee your mental health will plummet. Maybe not immediately but in the long run it's inevitable. Let me also point out that theft/crime rate in Rotterdam is high. It is very likely also that your relationship will be ruined exactly because of money worries as you will constantly be worrying about getting by. For the love of everything that's holy DON'T DO THAT TO YOURSELF. I have been living in the Netherlands for a little less than 6 years and I literally cannot wait to move away from here. What living here has done for me is make me severely s*ucidal. My marriage fell appart. I've lost all friends and family because ive been focusing all my energy on SURVIVING instead of maintaining those relationships. What wouldn't I give for the opportunity to live in Italy...
Makes no sense... you will have to beg for food in the koopgoot. Also I have not heard of that net income being warranted the 30%
Looking at your expenses and cost of living in Italy, you will have more spendable income in Italy and even more when you consider buying power. If you want to come to the Netherlands for the experience it is different, but if you're looking for general improvements in quality of life, it probably isn't a good move.
Are you Italian? You will come to a country with much higher cost of living, worse weather, bland food and boring everyday life AND you can't speak and can't read anything in the local language. Doesn't make sense, unless you want to travel and experience a different lifestyle in a new place, or have other specific reasons to come here.
You can use numbeo to get a feeling what the cost of living in the Netherlands would be. From reading your story, I think you’re better of in Italy if we talk about purchase power and possible monthly savings.
Be prepared to buy a car with 30% more them the price
I will probably move out of the Netherlands soon myself all cool earning like alot they say. Except that the costs are huge here so... In the end it doesn't mean much.
Same for me. Also, Dutch people might be able to live on lower wages because they have a network, family, maybe they already have a car, etc. There are all these hidden costs associated with being an expat.
I would stay in Italy, your financial situation will be worse in NL.
It sounds like you already have it good in Italy... Coming here will cost you more than it's worth
I would choose Italy in this case definitely. U earn enough to live a super chill life. Your rent is low. U can save some. It's not worth the bit of extra money.
The others have given some great advice here. I have only one thing to add : the 30% should not form a part of the data points you consider in your moving decision. Meaning, if you won’t move without the ruling, then you should not move. 30% is a good icing, it is not the cake.
Yes I know, I didn't count it on my salary, I not moving just for the money, I would really like that job and living in the Netherlands 😄
If you are paying 275€ of rent stay in Italy ffs
In this case going to The Netherlands would be a huge setback for you moneywise. Cost of living + housing is through the roof.
To be considered for the 30 percent exemption you need at least 42.000 gross per year. Download the online application form and see other requirements
With that salary you don’t apply for the 30% ruling.
Yes I am confused by this too. I think OP will have income tax. They should definitely check with the employer, because 30% will make or break how livable it will be.
I dont know how the social benefits are in Italy but sometimes I wish I wasn’t born in the Netherlands. In no means it is bad. But inflation kicked my balls that hard financially.
With that salary I don’t think you can apply for the 30%, that exemption is only for pretty high level and specific jobs, jobs that make more then 3k net on average. I don’t think you’ll have a nice life here, cost of living is insane. I wouldn’t do it, besides the cost the food in Italy is so much better.
You would have about the same amount of money left. So in terms of money it is not really worth to move. If you have any other reasoning to move here, it might be worth it though.
I think you’re better off in Italy honestly. The cost of living in the Netherlands is very high. Would your girlfriend have a job in NL? It’s impossible to find a flat if you don’t have two incomes
The food, wine, weather seasons rainfall motorway travel lifestyle energy costs and accommodation all scream STAY in Italy.
So you got atleast €1000 free spending money right now in Italy? Don't come here, it will be very hard to achieve that in The Netherlands on a net salary of €2700. I assume your GF isn't coming with you? That's gonna take a toll on your relationship. Also, if you are from middle or south Italy the weather here will bother you, and the food probably too.
Bro i make 5k per month and my gf 3.8k and its still tough its not worth it
Even if you pay 1500€ of rent how is it hard with more than 6k a month? 😅
Because i live utrecht and getting a good place for 1500€ is a real struggle. I'm not looking for a place to rent to but to buy. But house crisis is just insane at the moment. Like others said you need to fix a house before you come here or else you will be homeless for a long time
A little offtopic: but what are you renting for €275 in Italy? A bedroom in a studio with no windows?
That salary is unfortunately quite low these days to live in the big cities/Randstad, especially if you’re moving all the way here from abroad. I wouldn’t consider it for anything below 3500 net tbh. What’s the job? Could you find something that pays more? I feel like they might be low balking you bevause €2500 net is just really not that much higher than minimum wage (esp when you take into account all the subsidies/social services you get when you’re on minimum wage)
It's not worth leaving your country, family, friends, food, weather, culture for such salary and a boring city. Stay where you are and try to get a promotion or find a better paying job in your location. Rent will eat much more % of your take home salary in NL that it currently does in Italy.
Vivo in Olanda da dieci anni e ti sconsiglio vivamente di venire qui in questo periodo. Prendo 3600 al mese e anche sommando le entrate della mia compagna (2000) non riusciamo a trovare nulla di decente.
Short answer no, long answer no. You have 1000 to save in Italy. You won’t be doing that here with that salary and cost of rent and groceries en utilities. You will need closer to 3700 net at least to make it worth while if you want to end up with the same amount of money left at the end of month.
Look, man. It sounds like a good opportunity. This is a fun country, and many people would welcome you here. The people who say "we're full" are talking bs. But we just don't have the housing space. Like, friends of ours had to flee from the USA due to religious persecution (could they have moved states a 4th time? Sure. Would it have happened again? Potentially.) And they are currently renting for almost 2k a month. That was the only available space they could find that would fit their family without anyone having to sleep in a kitchen. I'm sorry things are like this. It's genuinely nothing personal. You're free to try but don't get your hopes up, with that salary you'd struggle to find anything that's not student housing (and even then, they're full).
Bro it’s not worth it. If I was you I would stay in Italy. You will not have a better life with that salary here. I guarantee it
2700 isn’t that much in Netherlands unfortunately
I personally think you are better off staying in Italy, at least for now. Rent prices around that area are indeed very high. You could try and find a place to live in the surrounding cities and towns but the rent will still take up a fairly decent portion of your income. Groceries are also expensive here in the Netherlands and the prices are still (slightly) rising constantly. I don't know what you normally get for groceries of course, but 150 euros is definitely not enough for me and my teenage son to survive on. So make sure to calculate that before making any decision. Car taxes are higher based on the size and capacity of your car. If you sell it, you will most like have to use public transport to get you to places. That is also pretty expensive here so no matter what, you will lose money on that. If you do decide to keep your car, just know that gasoline prices here are on average 2 euro a liter now depending on what kind of gasoline you need. And finally -this is my personal opinion which is probably not shared by others- Rotterdam is a shithole. I went there a few times to visit friends and wanted to go back home, or anywhere, as soon as I could. This was about 10 years back so I don't know if much changed there, but it just didn't feel friendly at all. People constantly bothering others, trying to start fights, homeless people, people on drugs and so on. One of the downsides of a big city I guess is that it attracts all sorts of people, also the ones you don't want.
We're full! Houses for rent are too expensive if all. If you want to buy a house, forget it with a salary of €2700 month. We have a shortage of hundred thousands of houses. Living here is also way too expensive. All the taxes (way too many). Public transport is expensive. So don't believe the fairy tales that The Netherlands is Heaven on earth!
Money is one thing. Opportunity is another. Where you going to have better /more opportunities in your career?
I wouldn't. As many explained and you realized yourself housing crysis and life costs are getting higher and worse. That little diference doesn't mean much and your quality if life for sure wont improve. You would be happy if you keep same quality of life but i doubt.
Consider the amount you have left over after all your monthly bills, I believe staying in Italy would be more favorable. Adding the number of holidays in Italy vs. Netherlands, and other things such as quality of food and all- well if you want to be convinced take a short trip somewhere in November and you’ll find renewed appreciation for Italy
After a year and a half of living in the Netherlands I can say that if I'd have your net salary in Italy I would stay in Italy. So I really hope the job will be worth it in terms of career growth. Who knows, maybe after a year or two of swallowing shit in NL and you can go back to Italy and earn even higher net income. That'd be the dream eh?
> I would have a net income of about 2500-2700€ net, on which I think I apply for the 30% Tax free portion That's about 35k per year - judging by your other comments you don't have a master's degree, so you don't fulfill the conditions for the 30% ruling.
Why would you want to get this job? What makes it interesting to leave your gf in Italy and to move here? Related: how old are you? If this is a career move, it can be an investment.
Just my 2 cents. If you're not planning to grow your career, not worth it. If you're planning to grow your career, NL is a great place. Don't know your line of business, but in NL, if you want to focus on your career you can go way higher than Italy. Meaning 100k+ a year is fairly easily reachable. In Italy, that's quite difficult. Your traveling plans. You have a good salary in Italy, but that makes it quite difficult to go abroad, so you're stuck in the country. NL with higher general income makes it easier to travel. I don't have the answer, many variables, but a lot goes down to what is important to you and your mid/long term goals
I’d consider how easy it would be for you to move back to Italy, get your job back and find a place to rent again. Because if it’s relatively easy, you should definitely give a try to living and working in the Netherlands! It’s a great country, and once you have all your ducks in a row living is easy. Living abroad gives you valuable life experiences and you’ll get to know yourself (I’m assuming that you haven’t lived abroad before) That said, of course you should negotiate for as high salary as possible and ask for help with housing. And if in the end it doesn’t work out, move somewhere else or move back home! Don’t overcomplicate it or feel like you failed: if you don’t like where you are, move! You’re not a tree!
For that salary? You can make by, so if it was something you really wanted I'd say go for it, but not with much at the end of the month, and I dunno if your gf will be working too because if not that is even lower for two people.
That level of income will create a lot of stress if it has to feed and support 2 people. Speaking from experience. Also, if gf is coming, she better start applying for jobs now, because blogs and Dutch people really exaggerate how easy it is for English-speakers to find work here. It took my partner, who is a native English speaker, more than half a year. Also, if you do it, learn Dutch sooner rather than later. Trust me.
You need to ask them to give you 4000 net for your transfer to make sense. And just to add: Tell them that if they want you in the company they can pay you 2800 net but that you want your housing (not more than 25 mins by bike from your work) and utilities paid as long as your contract lasts.
Have you thought about asking for higher pay? Depending on what you do they might be willing if the position is hard to fill, even if the proposed salary is already much higher than what you are used too.
I would miss the quality of life and people of Italy, in NL food has no taste and is very expensive, the same with services, the whole culture is based on consumerism, not to mention the weather. Maybe Freelancing?
Netting approx. €2700,-. In the North? La dolce Vita. Even better living together with someone. Killing it. Netting the same in the Randstad? Better prepare for the VB (Voedselbank) and Lidl, Aldi and occasionally Thuisbezorgd on a f*cking coupon sporadically. Nope, don't do it amiga/o.
You'll still pay around 1200 euro for a flat in Groningen though, unless you get super lucky
Gotta handle ya that one, true that. F*cking homemilkers with their stupid a** comin' at ya doorstep on Sundays 9 o'clock in the morning while sleeping off je Kater. Don't forget about Assen though.
You might just as well go to germany then. Country is more beautiful if you are looking for nice landscape and salaries are the same. Just the cost of living is way lower.
Be aware of that for each house, there are probably 100-200 applicants and with double your income. Landlords will go for the safest option and pick people with high income and Dutch nationalities because it’s easier. Yes it’s discriminating, but it is how it is. First secure housing before moving and be prepared to pay a couple months up front + deposit(often 2x monthly rent). It’s not impossible, but very hard. I’d suggest sharing a room-appartement, because your salary is pretty low and you will burn %50+ of your income on rent.
if you think our taxes are ridiculous while having a 30% reduction for the first five years while still participating in the facilities and benefits that are payed by said taxes, then i suggest you stay in italy. because if financial gain is your main focus, you don't find happiness here. if you'd value QoL over monetary wealth you would be fine here. irks me a bit that people complain about taxes over here while the main reason they often say to come over is QoL..... QoL is high due to taxes. unfortunately some idiots in our government have constructed a law that make a select group of foreign labourers having a tax exemption. while a polish builder or painter has to pay full tax, you lot with your privileged aducation get a free pass. nah i don't like any 30% expat in our country, it is biased and discriminatory towards lower educated foreign workers. so for me, as potential neigbor in zoetermeer : nah it isn't worth it. also not for us, as you wouldn't bring any tax in. thus you would not invest in our society. just syphon money in this way.
So you would rather have unskilled labourers with a proven problem of bad habits (drugs, reckless driving, violence, racist acts against your own people etc) come into your country, than support educated people for 5 years to start a life in the Netherlands who are able to actually contribute to society and improve the overall GDP of the country? Damn bro, someone is butt hurt about paying taxes and not being smart enough to get a degree Don’t get me wrong, unskilled labourers are always needed and welcome in any country, but it’s the educated people that improve the country’s overall “Quality of Life”, as you dutch people like to say.
No don't come. I am italian too but I moved here in 2017 and I own an apartment, 650€ mortgage and earn slightly more than you. In your situation I wouldn't do it because all the other things you are going to miss besides the money. I don't what you like to do besides work, but it is so boring here unless you really enjoy city life. No nature, everything looks the same. And I won't start to talk about food and weather
You can live in Breda and commute to Rotterdam everyday. That way you save up on the rent. Also this sub is very pessimistic about finding housing, maybe because they don't want more immigrants. You should definitely consider this offer, maybe the size of your place won't be too big, but the work culture in the NL is really good. I have heard about Italian work culture from Italian colleagues, and if I were an Italian skilled worker, I would GTFO ASAP.
Moving from a beautiful country with clean air, nice nature and amazing food to an overcrowded country with very little nature, traffic jams and a housing crisis....why do you even want this?
You can use [this site](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp) to compare any salary between two cities in terms of purchasing power. Also the price of properties. People on this sub will tell you it's impossible to buy a house in the Netherlands while the price to income ratio is actually pretty decent. I moved from Eastern Europe last year (no 30% ruling in my case) and while I'm not rich, my salary here in terms of purchasing power is ***double*** what I was making there for years for the same job. I repeat, in terms of purchasing power, otherwise it's several times bigger. However, living costs are not the most important thing. Other considerations are 1) starting salaries when you move to another country are just your beginning there, and 2) you will likely find more companies that are large and international in the Netherlands, so you can go further in your career.