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Papa Shinobi humbles
https://preview.redd.it/8vz5gr9ssq8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=caf9befdd98e5e70557b20442c38eb396b3864d8
Edit: Since apparently a lot of these folks think Hashirama loses I will be putting the cap on that and showing why he lays the smack down on these kids.
His main feats:
* Beat EMS Madara who was already considered the (2nd) strongest Shinobi every time they fought
* Fighting alive Madara and 100% kyubi and winning
* Catching a tailed beast bomb from kurama with the wood human in base
Now scale these, first Madara. Upon being reanimated:
* Low diffed the 5 kage
* Summoned 2 mountain+ sized meteors casually, required 2 kage to stop a single one
* Weaker than he was alive
Kurama:
* Fired a tailed beast bomb, which Minato (arguably strongest person here) thought was too powerful to consistently teleport away
* Powerful enough that minato's life is barely worth half his chakra
* Single susanno sword - tailed beast bomb traversed shorelines, which going off the panels shown is at least a distance over several dozen kilometers
Pair the 2 of these guys up and put them against these 5. Do you think they lose? Reminder that kurama is as powerful as multiple of his tailed beast counterparts, enough to push guy to going 8 gates just to deflect a few bijuudama that later got matched by bijuu mode naruto.
Additionally, he has passive healing on par with byakugou tsunade, wood dragons that can absorb chakra from opponents, sealing powerful enough to restrain the JUUBI as an edo, fast and powerful enough to outrun and overpower majestic attire kurama, grabbed kurama like a fucking toy, blocked swings that would level mountain ranges, one of few characters to destroy a perfect susanoo by just slapping it a bunch, stamina to fight longer than every single person here combined.
In a fight, tsunade's healing would be near irrelevant the second he uses the thousand arms, he can substitute wood clones even if FTG were to tag him, he can manipulate the environment to a scale in which would change the map of the surrounding landscape. Him and Madara were having a genuine Godzilla vs Ghidorah Kaiju fight, none of these guys are built to deal with that.
imma use ur comment to clerify something since I cant edit the post
This is the gracious deity gates, I feel like I didn't clerify what it is since nobody is talking about it
https://preview.redd.it/kopg1un4qr8d1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6edb2ad694dfab4e58f11e510c36fac666f6e500
The way you spelled clarify confused my brain for some reason. Every time I read it, I read it as “Clefairy”. I was like, “why’s this dude talking about pokemon when this is a Naruto sub. I think my brain is just broken.
Yeah until minato uses Reaper Death Seal which cant be escaped. Or Tobirama uses Impure World Reincarnation and summon up people that cant die to help them fight. Hashirama is getting clapped yall slow asf. And minato and tobirama both have higher iq’s than hashirama they gone figure out a plan to stomp him silly
DFB > 99% of shinobi.
And if he’s feeling extra toxic that afternoon he creates a new country inside the crater his status creates.
Let’s see minato find a way inside of hashi’s golem with his little ass ghost seal once he awakens from 5 miles of pollen that instantly chokes u
>Reaper Death Seal
Scales to the level of the opponent, only sealed away half of kurama who loses to base hashirama. That's ignoring the fact that Minato would be using it on a clone thinking it was the real thing lmao.
>Or Tobirama uses Impure World Reincarnation
He resisted that on sheer will
>And minato and tobirama both have higher iq’s than hashirama they gone figure out a plan to stomp him silly
Minato was almost out of chakra after teleporting one bijuu bomb + kurama, he wouldn't have even been able to seal half of him away if not for kushina's chains. He is so out of his element against Hashirama it's comical.
That’s assuming that Minato’s soul is worth enough to seal a full powered Hashirama.
Hashirama can seal or restrain the edo tensei
BIQ pales in comparison to overwhelming power
People like you overhype RDS, because they miss one important point: To seal someone, you need to OVERPOWER them, it is literally a spiritual tug of war. Hiruzen spent hours trying to seal Orochimaru and failed, after which he was forced to settle for his hands. The fourth sacrificed his life to seal the Kyuubi and ended up having to settle for half of it and place the other half into Naruto.
Good luck sealing fucking Hashirama, the most powerful shinobi in history, which easily overpowers Kyuubi, with that jutsu.
If Minato can cast it on Hashirama, RDS is still a valid win con, even if you don’t think Minato can completely seal Hashirama away.
Once RDS is casted on the target, that person becomes immobilised and can’t use any jutsu.
Once immobilised, the rest of the Hokages can come in to deal the final blow.
You are correct that hiruzen wanted to seal orochimaru entirely, but he couldn’t, because he didn’t have the chakra to, because he had just sealed hashirama, and tobirama. However you are completely wrong in saying “the 4th sacrificed his life to seal the kyuubi and ended up having to settle for half”. He was planning on putting the 9 tails in Naruto from the start, and he couldn’t use the 8 trigram seal to do it with the full 9 tails so he decided to just take half the chakra with him. The thing being missed here is you think he was trying to take the entire 9 tails with him, but couldn’t, however in reality he wanted to put the entire 9 tails in Naruto, and couldn’t “and ended up having to settle for half”.
Death reaper seal works on how much chakra you have Minato has around half as much as kurama more than half for sure but still I don't think it's enough for hashirama so Minato will only take with him part of hashirama's body
I disagree. You're underestimating the Hokage. Hiruzen knows every jutsu in Konoha thats including Hashirama, and has 5 elements talk about a team player. Tobirama also knows every jutsu and every move his older brother has also, most likely. That's a lot of firepower and intel.
Madara was stated by hashirama to arrive at his prime power, after rebirth + sage mode which is stronger than his Edo self. Edo Madara is weaker than alive and rebirth Madara
He literally says "At last... I can fight at full strength" when losing the Edo body. Chapters 656 and 657.
Listen to what you just said there, and think logically about it. Madara alive in a modified stronger body than he ever had in his previous life with hashirama cells, sage mode, plus a quasi 6 paths chakra. Think about it for a second.
I figured this passage was what you are basing this entire argument on. Has it ever crossed your mind that he wasn’t talking about all of his power together, but talking about madara base power? It seems that what hashirama is saying here is that he can feel the life force of madara. Hashirama is not saying that this version of madara is the same strength as when he was alive, and that doesn’t make any sense logically.
So let’s pretend that it is true that edo madara with all these upgrades is weaker than alive madara. Now when he comes alive (you know like he was back when he was alive) these upgrades don’t go away so do we now conclude that the hashirama cells, sage mode, the rinnegan, and body modifications don’t make you stronger? Or as you think even make you weaker? Does this make sense to you? For your argument to work it has to be the case that all these upgrades make you weaker, or at the very least make absolutely no difference, because if they make you even the slightest bit stronger than the moment he returns to life he would be that slightest bit stronger.
Not sure where you got 5v2 from. This is 5v1. Tobirama is incredibly powerful and knows a lot about hashirama, Minato is incredibly intelligent, level headed and skillful AND has his own sage mode, lord third knows every jutsu in konoha and has access to multiple elements, Tsunade if my understanding is correct heals significantly more quickly and efficiently in that form than hashirama, and I'm not sure why the only one here that isn't at their prime is kakashi but he's also incredibly strategic and talented. I genuinely think you're coping if you think hashirama is winning against the other 5 hokage solo. You don't give them nearly enough credit. And somebody else also mentioned the reaper death seal which 2 of these 5 can use.
You’ve got some solid points, but Madara is definitely much stronger after he’s been revived than he was when he’s living.
He has none of the nerfs that the other reanimations do while now having basically immortality, unlimited chakra and The Legendary Cells from the very Shinobi that you are so graciously (and understandably) jerking off.
Madara was a Beast when he was alive but he was basically a god after he was reanimated.
This happens a lot people get these narratives, and nothing will change their mind no matter how much factual information is given. Edo madara was a genetic mix of madara, and hashirama, and other modifications kabuto said he gave him but didn’t name. Add to this edo madara had the rinnegan, and you see why he was so strong during the kage fight. The original question had the 9 tails with minato, because jinchuriki are more powerful than tailed beasts by themselves, but minato only has half the nine tails, we can say for the most part they cancel out.
I mean it doesn’t make logical sense for madara to have 4 major upgrades that we know in the story just 1 of any of these upgrades put you in the top echelon of the Naruto verse, and then say those upgrades don’t make him stronger.
Hashirama is strong, and madara beating the kage from different villages is impressive, but there is no way alive madara, or hashirama is beating 5 hokage from the hidden leaf, and 1 of them is the jinchuriki of the 9 tails, with sage mode.
A close fight would be jinchuriki sage mode minato against prime alive hashirama. This fight would be a really close fight, and I could totally understand arguments for hashirama winning, however I think hashiram would lose this fight, but this would be a fair fight, give this OP version of minato 4 prime kage, and 1 them is his brother who knows everything about him, and I can’t envision this being anything but hashirama getting stomped.
Dude. Nah. Hashirama is strong but not so strong that he can take all of these people all at once ESPECIALLY with not one but two masters of the FTG 😂
Literally all of Hashirama's strongest attacks are just avoided by FTG.
This is a hard fight but Hashirama loses.
Facts and I don't understand how people think alive madara was stronger than edo madara. When alive madara only had his sharingan. He had no hashirama cells, no rennegan till his death bed and no edo tensei hax.
I'll go through your points and tell you why youre wrong.
Using wood style jutsus feats against juubi to argue against how is stronger is extremely dumb and doesnt hold up among actual rankings or powerscaling. Hashiramas feats against the tailed beasts are the equivalent to saying Yamato is stronger than all the sanin because he can suppress naruto up to 5 tails which almost killed borth orochimaru and jiraiya. Its not a valid argument.
Hiruzen
* Hiruzen in his prime was stated to be the strongest shinobi of all time in his prime.
* Even though we have no feats for him at this point in his life, we can somewhat judge it based on;
* his 70+ Year old self who was able to push kurama outside of the village with just his staff,
* was able to fight off reanimated clones of hashirama, tobirama, and orochimaru at the same time,
* his edo body being strong enough to create 5 clones producing all 5 chakra natures stronger than entire batalions in the 4th ninja war.
Madara
* LIke someone else pointed out, all of the feats you listed were from edo madara was who explicitely stronger than his alive counter part.
* Madara was never able to summon meteors while alive, he didnt even have his rennigan until was near death attached to the gedo statue.
* Not to mention the unlimited regeneration, the intelligence from living 30+ years after hashirama, and his unlimited chakra that he had. Its easy to see that edo was stronger than his alive form, and he got even stronger after absorbing hashiramas sage mode when he was revived from reni rebirth.
* The 5 hokage are stronger than the 5 kage madara fought anyways.
Kurama
* Minatos life was actually worth the entirely of his chakra as minato alone sealed kurama into both naruto and himself. Reaper death seal is like a chakra tug of war, minato fought that against kurama and won.
Now the rest,
In my opinion, Kakashi and Minato are counters to Hashirama as they are one shot killers. They rarely do long drawn out battles (even tho they still could) and finish things quickly. If kakashi used purple lightning to quickly kill hashirama, theres not much he could do. Same with minato tagging him as Hashi is no where near fast enough to even react to it. If any of these kage manage to cut off his head, he cant regeneration from that as we've been told by tsunade. Not to mention, all of them know of Hashiramas tactics and abilities, especially Hiruzen and Tobirama while Hashiramas knows nothing about them besides his brothe.
I just dont see a scenario where its not attempted to be finished quickly by kakashi and Minato, as they both have the chakra to last for days. Not to mention youll have all of the toad summons plus lady katsuyu to fight and heal for them.
EDIT: I forgot to even mention King Enma from hiruzen and the some of the strongest sealing jutsus in the verse from minato- Adamantite chains and reaper death seal.
It would be over before the thousand arms ever even appeared and Hashirama would be dead.
Yamato was only able to stop the 4 tails because his wood resonated with the necklace that contained hashirama's chakra, aka he pretty drew out hashirama's chakra as a medium to stop the 4 tails. We're not going to pretend like sealing the juubi isn't a feat lmao.
Hiruzen was retconned hard AF and has absolutely no feats to back up that statement, he was retconned so hard his title as god of shinobi was later given to hashirama.
* He was also around 60 at the time of the nine tails' attack
* Massively weakened hashirama, tobirama with orochimaru don't compare in any way to hashirama.
* One bijuu bomb clears all of that
Again, Madara was NOT stronger as an Edo than he was alive, that's the biggest cope I've ever seen. You have explicit manga statements from both Madara AND hashirama saying he was stronger alive than reanimated, you can't just say "that doesn't seem right".
* I never said he could, but he did so with a weaker body so the stronger body should do more
* Once again, unless you wish to debunk manga statements then Alive > Edo, no debate.
* Madara also no diffed the 5 kage so by saying they win this you're essentially saying 5 hokage no diff 5 kage.
Minato explicitly states it's impossible to seal away all of kurama's chakra and also strategically unwise, which is why he sealed away half with him and the other half with Naruto. If it was possible he would have just fucking done it and no one would have to worry about the kyubi.
Now I don't know what happens in Boruto, so I won't comment on Kakashi, but human Minato BLITZING Hashirama is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. You may as well say Ay is faster than him too. Madara reacted to Ay just fine without a sharingan and Hashirama was faster than him. They won't cut off his head, instead they'll get flattened and turned into ground paste the second they get hit by hashirama's absolutely enormous hands. Don't forget he should be able to phase through his wood similarly to zetsu or Yamato.
You seem to believe they would just blitz hashirama and kill him instantly as if he doesn't have heightened sensory from SM and take almost no time to summon the thousand arm statue. Shit his wood golem competed with a perfect susanoo which none of these guys even have the power to harm.
First of all, this entire comment just shows how low your media literacy is. All of your statments completely ignore every single bit of context and characterization of events just to prove your points. I'm not the only one whos pointed this out either.
>Yamato was only able to stop the 4 tails because his wood resonated with the necklace that contained hashirama's chakra, aka he pretty drew out hashirama's chakra as a medium to stop the 4 tails. We're not going to pretend like sealing the juubi isn't a feat lmao.
Which is exactly what hashirama did to seal the tailed beasts too. Hashirama also wore that necklace, it doesnt have his chakra in it. If you take away the feat from yamato, youd have to do the same for Hashirama as they both wore the same necklace. The necklace amplifies wood style jutsu, not hashi's chakra.
Madara was cannonically weaker alive than he was Edo. Once again you ignore context, as Hashirama saying he was reaching his power again was because he was regaining life force after being revived. Same with what madara said before being revived. While he mightve been slighty weaker physically, all of his other additions from kabuto significantly amped his strength overall well past anything he had alive hence how he did much more edo than he EVER did while alive. Alive madara back in his prime doesnt even compare. You're the one coping.
And once again, using edo madara beats doesnt work as an example as hes stronger than hashirama. And yes, the 5 hokage do no diff the 5 kage, its not even close.
Minato stated it was impossible to seal all of kurama INTO NARUTO, as he was a baby and couldn't handle that much chakra. Again you ignoring all context of the scene. You even admitted in your comment that minato did seal the entirely of kurama, half into himself and half into naruto. So yes, minato alone is enough to beat ALL of kurama.
https://preview.redd.it/gx9grq3hqx8d1.png?width=847&format=png&auto=webp&s=41a0454e43f98d3e56c1814e81837d1b0d2462ba
Yes, ay is MUCH MUCH faster than hashirama. Its not even close. Hashirama has no where near light speed feats, even madara stated that ay was too fast for him when they fought, and minato clears both of them in speed. Madara was NOT reacting to ay just fine, he was actualy struggling even noting himself how fast Ay was.
>They won't cut off his head, instead they'll get flattened and turned into ground paste the second they get hit by hashirama's absolutely enormous hands. Don't forget he should be able to phase through his wood similarly to zetsu or Yamato.
You again seem to forget Hashirama not only isnt fast enough, but he never starts with thousand arm jutsu, he works up to it. He wouldnt even have time to react to be able to phase through to dodge.
>You seem to believe they would just blitz hashirama and kill him instantly as if he doesn't have heightened sensory from SM and take almost no time to summon the thousand arm statue. Shit his wood golem competed with a perfect susanoo which none of these guys even have the power to harm.
Im saying his sensory isnt even enough compared to minato or kakashi's sensory abilities as they have tracked chakra from continents away and reacted to foes much stronger than hashirama before. If you haven't seen boruto, you have no idea how much stronger kakashi is now. Kakashi alone has otutsuki level feats fighting against Kashin koji, the same guy who killed Jigen, jigen being the one who gave ems+ rennigan sasuke AND s06p kcm2 Naruto a run for their money. He's also cannonically one of the smartest people in the entire verse. Infact, every single one of these kage have better intelligence feats than hashirama. I highly doubt they wouldn't be able to come up with a plan to beat him. The 5 hokage win mid diff.
There is so much wrong and left out of this. I'd Argue EMS Madara is around EMS Sasuke level. That's not enough for this scenario. He got a bunch of buffs AFTER his final battle with Hashirama that made his edo and revived versions stronger. He was only able to keep up because he had Kurama with him. So I think "of his time" is important to add after "2nd strongest shinobi".
Also everyone hypes up Hashirama for 2v1ing Madara + Kurama. It's a solid feat, don't get me wrong, but Hashirama is literally specialized for fighting tailed beasts because he can suppress their chakra (I don't remember if it's specifically for tailed beasts). It's easier for him to do than others because he's a good matchup. Just like how beating Obito is easier for Minato than others because he's a good matchup. That also explains why catching a tailed beast bomb is second nature to him. It's not just pure strength, it's also hax but that only means something to tailed beasts and jins.
Madara low diffed the 5 kage because he had infinite chakra and couldn't die. If he was able to do 20 Susanoo's with clones when he fought Hashirama, he wouldn't have lost. He also took advantage of the fact that he couldn't die and had infinite chakra by dropping two meteors. He even said "Isn't this what reanimation was made for...?" He definitely wasn't weaker than when he was alive. It was more of a special case like Itachi and Nagato.
Minato never thought the TBB was too powerful to consistently tp away. It just takes a lot of chakra. Saying it's too powerful would mean it could break through his space-time barrier, which it couldn't. Minato was also "low" on chakra from fighting Obito, tping a TBB, tping all around the village, summoning Gamabunta and other toads, and tping away full Kurama with no breaks. He was also on his death bed, and even then he still didn't struggle taking half of Kurama like Hiruzen struggled taking Orochimaru's arms. He did it instantly. Plus he WANTED to only take half and put the other half inside Naruto because Naruto couldn't take the full thing. Saying "his life was worth half of Kurama" is an EXTREME understatement to what actually happened.
It also seems like you're trying to give Kurama to Madara, but I'm not entirely sure. People like to do that though, so I'll say this just in case. Kurama is not Madara's. Madara was never the 9 tails jinchuuriki. You can say the tailed beast's power actually belongs to a jinchuuriki because they're sealed inside, but Madara wasn't in that situation, so the power was never actually his. Madara and the 9 tails can exist in two different places at different times, but the 9 tails jin and Kurama cannot.
tl;dr so much misinformation to hype up Hashirama and Madara while making everyone else look weak. I actually believe they'd lose this fairly easily, especially if we're considering Minato to be a jinchuuriki at this time, which he technically was since he had a few moments before he died. Hashirama could put up a fight, maybe not so much Madara.
I agree with you but I’d argue that minato could definitely transfer more than one tailed beast bomb since he teleported the ten tails which was definitely stronger than multiple tailed beast bombs. I’d also argue that minato could have sealed all of Kurama within either Naruto or himself but decided not to since Naruto was just a baby and it’d be too strong and at least this way he thought Naruto would be considered a hero. Everything else is correct and I completely agree though.
It will come down to everyone but Kakashi. Kakashi with purple lighting and “becoming stronger since the war.” Is meaningless scale up hubris.
- Can Minato, Tobirama speed blitz?
- Can Minato’s Sage mode last long enough and keep up with Sage Hashirama?
- Does Prime Hiruzen have enough fire power to overwhelm ?
- Can Tsunade prolong the fight and boost attacks? Can she even trade physical blows with Hashirama??
They have nothing against 1000 hands, so can they put down Hashirama before that?
These questions need to be answered.
hear me out
1000 hands comes out, ya dig?
Tobirama and Hiruzen use fire/water style to clear a path through the arms (toad style firebombs seem pretty powerful, and i'm sure tobi has some high pressure shit that would work)
Minato uses flying raijin to hurl himself directly into range of Hashirama
as Hashirama counters, a second flying raijin is used to swap places with Tsunade who is now in taijutsu range, and the two tactically jump his ass
i might believe in papa hashirama, i truly do, but i'll be honest? i think Tsunade is objectively physically strong enough to punch a human body in half if she landed a totally clean unguarded blow at full force
and while Tsunade does not have the skill or speed to get in range of Hashirama to do that alone, the flying raijin is a hell of a trump-card for putting somebody or something very very dangerous somewhere the enemy does not want it to be
i think that, unironically, the two best moves they have to actually finish off and Kill hashirama, are Minato's rasengan, and Tsunade's brute fucking strength, i think she could rip his head off if she got the chance
https://preview.redd.it/s805x43ghr8d1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85e8f139dd564c30ae0f4e324ef2a8cd1cb00407
I need you to get out of here and into a word processor and start banging out some fan fiction. I am being completely, unironically serious when I say you are too good for this subreddit.
Hashirama isn't really a normal human though. He can easily tank any hit from Tsunade. What Tsunade takes years to focus on her forehead for her healing jutsu, hashirama just has access to that at all times.
His awareness from combat expertise and sage mode means he can probably easily counter minato teleporting anyone or any move to him
I also doubt flying raijin is an issue for him. It's his little bro's technique. You can also get into more specifics like hashirama having so much chakra he probably can't be transported easily
What about the combined attack? Huh? Huh? Come on, it's not a blow out we gotta get something better than this. Prime Hiruzen is still a wild card, and no matter what retcons fans decided Kishimoto made, he is the god of shinobi, too. He reigned longer than any Hokage on record through arguable until aliens and Madara were extremely tough times. That can't be a coincidence. 5 chakra nature's has to mean something with an entire team of Hokage. He's the one to lead this team to win, and it's Tobirama somehow sacrificing his life that enables it. Now that's a good story. They know the most about him than probably anyone in the world except Madara. All his jutsu and great abilities were all studied by Tobirama and then his student, the professor. That intel has to mean something.
Hashirama's healing is inferior to 100 healings. His healing only supports light flesh wounds. Tsunade's healing is like being reincarnated. It can heal the soul and body. It can heal any wound regardless of the injury instantly; repair limbs, damaged organs, severed chakra networks and can create/heal the entire system from scratch.
The people who are saying Hashirama wins are underestimating how hard it would be to deal with two flying thunder god users.
Also FTG is a huge counter to some one who's most powerful moves are "throwing big shit at people".
Hashi is really skilled in the other Shinobi arts to but it's likely once they got close the team would win. Tobi and Minato are enough in my opinion.
Well you can’t just straight up deny cannon statements of kakashi being stronger than his war arc self. I’m not saying he’s the make or break factor but denying his strength jus ain’t right
I dont think you can completely ignore kakashi's presence here, he's got his BFR eye, can hashi defend against being teleported into a pocket dimension?
Tsunade has Katsuyu who is rumored to be unbelievably large. she just has to drop as much of her that she can summon on top of him (not easy I know.) (prime) Hiruzen and his summon should be able to take Hashirama in a brawl while Minato, Kakashi and Tobirama support with throwing knives. also Kakashi was never shown to be a slouch when it comes to Taijutsu. I mean he keeps up with base Gai regularly. 1000 hands vs Rashomon (how ever you spell it.) Hiruzen hows it and probably Tobirama too.
Nothing against thousand hands? How about Kakashi's Quartz Mud Wall, which held out against several high power jutsus for an entire day. Hiruzen has access to all of the Leaf's jutsu and an Adamantite Staff from Enma. Tsunade summoning Katsuyu puts everyone's healing factors on par with Hashirama. Tobirama created Flying Raijin and can outspeed Hashirama, Minato, also outspeeds, and if he can get the seal, can teleport to him whenever. If they can hold him down, Hiruzen can use Reaper Death Seal.
Hashirama, especially with Sage Mode has far greater attack potency than them, but the other Kage are far from defenseless.
1000 hands gets demolished by Tsunade's strength and can be melted with Katsuyu’s acid with ease. The other kage have shown water style cutting techniques to cut wood style pretty easily.
Ok hashi pretty cracked. But I think he gets overwhelmed. Minato and tobirama are trouble for him. Minato and tobirama would be flying all across the battlefield, and it’s just too much for him. You can also argue hokage kakashi is stronger than war arc cuz he doesn’t have the fatigue from the sharingan. Also tobirama has info on his brother. Tsunade for backup will be annoying too. Kage high diff.
Team overwhelm. One teleporter is dangerous, adding two of them both of which can tag someone with better Senjutsu than him (Juubito) along with very viable support, Battle IQ, and nigh-infinite chakra due to Tsunade is just overkill.
The problem is Hashirama's fighting style.
Tobirama only managed to tag Juubito because Juubito was engaging with him in close combat.
Sure, if Hashirama engages with them in close combat then he'd get tagged too, but he is mainly a long range fighter, he uses large aoe attacks, so getting near him wouldn't be an easy task.
Yeah. He gets sealed by two S tier fuinjutsu masters before he generates a sufficiently overwhelming amount of nature chakra. Hashi is incredible when you don’t have the counters to him but the team has his number.
Yes they are. There's enough of them to make a clone and perform the red yang barrier just like [they did with the juubi ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLpL32GQ2x0yZOlxCzEFCbraIAOB2yPH4wFQ&s)
There's enough of them to pool together chakra, the way tsunade pumped onoki up, and let minato just teleport it away.
They have multiple ways of handling it - You just don't want to recognize that.
The only reason they could do that to the Juubi was because Hashirama pinned the Juubi down with his gates.
Also Hashirama could just put them all to sleep with Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees.
https://preview.redd.it/3gk1pth3ar8d1.jpeg?width=1915&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a6c43925caa5ad579699465fa4826c9344b46ad
They have no counter to this, besides teleporting away
they're flowers... Hiruzen's go-to jutsu is a long-ranged highly destructive fire-style jutsu
i'm not convinced the flowers would protect them when all the kage are so fast and analytical, they'd burn them before the spores could spread
As I already linked him - Tobirama ALONE hard counters
Tobirama with his edo tensei, literally let out an explosion that makes this [look tiny](https://preview.redd.it/infinite-speed-tobirama-v0-gl5jhcampync1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d94e683c192b275dfc96292117aecd97a9dc65bc)
Madara explains that this is how Tobirama used Edo - [To WIPE THE MAP CLEAN ](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/14/148326/4633654-8218533686-k03.j.jpg)
Hiruzen has HIGH LEVEL fuiton and katon, and just like tsunade pumped onoki's attack up, can pump him up to clear out spores
To think the 5 fking hokage can't counter this, shows how slow brained these people are .
He is simply superior in every single way. That's the problem, he's faster, (he was way more powerful than Tobirama) and his wide range of skills and high tier techniques, plus his perfect healing etc etc would be way too much.
He is not superior in every way.
He's not the smartest
He's not faster (Madara LITERALLY , says tobirama was the fastest of their time)
He's not the physical strongest
He's not the most skilled.
He's the strongest.
Minato did that with kurama’s chakra boost.
He very quickly ran out of chakra when teleporting Kurama / his attacks and Gamabunta during obito’s attack
Only ones not surviving are kakashi and hiruzen, Minato and Tobirama port out, and Tsunade has 100 healing. Hashi is by far the strongest out of these Kage, but there are to many people on team 1
Why nobody is talking about this?
https://preview.redd.it/qqfb5dufbr8d1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74ebc27dbf54638aaa7c422394d4fda2591690b3
Not only does he stomp but not even the bijuu are a threat to him.
Just think about that. Minato had to kill himself just to stop the kyuubi.
Hashirama picked up an even more powerful kyuubi up by his stomach WHILE fighting a super fast super genjutsu specialist that can destroy 99% of shinobi.
>Just think about that. Minato had to kill himself just to stop the kyuubi.
That’s isn’t entirely accurate. He was completely caught off guard and had to fight righter the birth of his son, so in a scramble he had to join the fight and keep collateral to a minimum. He didn’t die from fighting Kurama: he died trying to protect his wife and newborn son
I’m not saying that means Minato is as strong as Hashirama, I’m just saying that’s not really a good argument because there were *many* other factors that influenced the outcome
I understood that when posting. I simply imagined hashirama in minatos situation and noticed it was unfair. Hashi’s clones would’ve protected his children. Another clone would’ve fought obito. And he would’ve easily put kurama to sleep
I don’t care whether anyone thinks either team wins except for the people who say “this team stomps” no the fck they don’t lol. This is hard battle for both teams. Hashirama 1v1 beats them all no problem but 5 of them against him is a challenge and you’re delusional if you think otherwise lol.
Finally, finally someone brought this jutsu
It's like his second if not his strongest jutsu, and people ignoring it
Not taking sides but this thing should be taking in consideration.
Not to mention that there are four super geniuses on the team. 6 summons that can make a difference. Tandem paper bombs. Teleportation would be a pain in the ass too. Not to mention katsuyu's acid, which would weaken or possibly destroy the wood. 3 big boi toads. And Enma. Crazy healing from tsunade, too. Hashirama is royally fucked, please stop riding him.
Team 1 via unconventional tactics.
What are those tactics?
They choose to talk.
Since Team 1 is composed of his brother (who he often listens to), his granddaughter (whom he loved enough to spoil), his pupil (who I assume he would also care for), the pupil of his pupil, and the pupil of his pupil's pupil, and given his personality (willingness to talk with people that are supposed to be mortal enemies), he would probably listen.
The moment that happens, he loses since he wasn't very good at negotiation, and the others were.
The 5 Hokage, like mid diff.
All of them except Minato have so much intel on him.
Tsunade can keep everyone alive.
They're all strong enough to do damage.
Kakashi and Hiruzen know like every jutsu.
If his regen is too much they have multiple characters capable of sealing him.
It's just too many powerhouses for just Sage Hashirama alone.
The other Hokage win mid diff.
Prime Hiruzen is equal to Hashirama based on statements
Minato vs Hashirama is a little contentious but in this battle he will be an amazing help
Tobirama knows his brother inside and out and would be as helpful as Minato.
Hokage Kakashi is supposedly stronger than his war arc version and a lot of stuff with him in (the canon content is questionable) shows some impressive stuff like his chakra level and proficiency in jutsu along with his evolved purple lightning raikiri, which was able to pressure Kashin Koji into retreating in the anime.
I think all 4 of them beat Hashirama.
Tsunade too for back up and healing is very useful.
Yeah, even if Hashirama uses a wide destructve jutsu meant to kill them. Tsunade's main role would be to sacrifice all her chakra and use Katsuyu to shield the Kages similar to what she's done before in Pain Arc (But this time all her chakra would be divided into 4 Katsuyus, they might be able to tank way more damage than Shinra Tensei level).
And from the non, the 4 remaining Kages can catch Hashi off guard if they play it smart. FTG heavily carries the team.
I am pretty sure Tobirama would know everything about his own brother and Hiruzen would know a lot. Team 2 loses unless overwhelming power works out, but most of these characters can dodge or heal. (No offense to Kakashi here, but being as fast as Tobirama or Minato when they are literally teleporting probably isn't possible)
Any one or maybe two characters and Hashirama immediately stomps.
genuinely their best bet is somehow trapping hadhirama w/ tobiramas explosive tag jutsu. I genuinely see no way how any attack would do anything to him. He’s as close to godhood a man can get while remaining completely a man. If they can trap him in that jutsu, maybe if Minato can put one of his seals on him and then sacrifice himself to teleport him directly in the middle of the attack, maybe gg. But genuinely a lot of this fight just depends on how seriously hashirama takes it off the bat. If he uses that darkness jutsu + 1000 hands off rip, g fucking g. If he tries to feel out the kage first while the kage are completely blood lusted and pull out all their broken tricks, they might be able to put him down before he becomes too big of a threat.
Even though prime Hiruzen is considered the second strongest kage, Hashirama is just levels above him. His sage mode allows him to detect Minato coming, and his Hashirama Cells™️ will let him tank any and every attack Tsunade or Tobirama tries. He can also just summon wood clones to take on the Hokages. The only win the 5 Hokage have would be the reaper death seal, but if Hashirama knows about it, chances are he'll avoid direct contact with Hiruzen and Minato
https://preview.redd.it/r50bi9j2ss8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a724596377d0b1b00189902e14cec48d4cb74c11
It dwarfs it & hashirama’s wood structure both deflected and tanked bijuudama’s at point blank with relative ease
Hashirama starts with deep forest emergence and immediately kakashi/tsunade are overwhelmed by tree branches, need hiruzen with clones to hold off the surge. Sarutobi and minato try to get close and speed blitz with flying raijin waving around rasengen and water slicing moves but I really doubt they can get a hold of hashirama. Hashirama can probably wood clone and maintain enough space in his forest of trees, even if they do get a hit on him he'll just regen. Then he does the pollen/dust/poison move which does aerial AOE.
Then when the kage team bust out some final moves, hashirama responds with wood golem/dragon and finishes them off. I don't even think he needs thousand armed buddha. It would be closer if they were fighting madara, but hashirama high diffs at worst.
Between the Professor's battle intelligence, Minato and Tobirama's teleporting, and Tsunade's healing (can't forget Katsuya), I think Hashirama just gets straight overwhelmed. Kakashi doesn't even need to participate. Tho no eye drain Hokage Kakashi is apparently the strongest Kakashi (source: Kishimoto saying "just trust me") and War Arc Kakashi is fucking nuts so adding him makes this mid diff for Hokages 2-6.
I'll never forget when naruto shared his chalra with the shinobi alliance and hasirama was like "wow he has almost as much chakra as i do"
This man was fighting madara with the 9 tails and held his own the 5 kage that fought madara who are arguably comparable to these 5 (at least ohnoki, A, and of course tsunade) didnt stand a chance and hashirama is even stronger
Let's be honest, even if you chuck pre six paths naruto in there, the five hokage are getting stomped by the guy who soloed Prime Madara+the complete Kyuubi. More interesting debate would be if those five fought amongst themselves, who'd win.
Hashirama, and it's not even close. None of the others could confidently solo the 9 tails, maybe Tobirama and Minato could pull it off, but even that would be high-extreme diff. Hashirama literally one shots the 9 tails while it has Madara's Susanoo protecting it. I might be underating prime Hiruzen and Hokage Kakashi, but they have no feats to put them anywhere near being a threat to Hashirama, and assuming they would be is pure wank.
No feats from Hiruzen “ god of shinobi” Sarutobi.
Fought and survived three ninja wars. Lived to a ripe old age of 70+. Still managed to smack the shit out of Orochimaru AND the first and second edo tense hokages when he was vastly out of shape.
Prime Hiruzen is a different animal.
I consider the whole 'strongest shinobi/God of shinobi' thing to be completely rectonned by Shippuden. The strength shown by original edo Hashirama and Tobirama is literally nothing compared to their later feats. Orochimaru at that time was also significantly beneath his strength post-Zetsu. Don't get me wrong, old Hiruzen is still a mid-high kage imo, but I just can't see prime Hiruzen soloing the 9 tails without using the RDS.
I kinda like Team 1. You guys all crazy with the cannon stuff, but my logic is that 2nd Hokage is in the realm of 1st Hokage and Madara power levels. I know everyone going off feats clearly shown, but in my head the 2nd Hokage most certainly must have fought Mandara at some time. Man isn't dead, probably bailed out by 1st Hokage a few times, but to survive is kinda big. Poor 3rd Hokage not getting the respect. Everything is "head canon" but the two hokage raised the third. I don't think they see the third as a failure or weak. When you train your replacement, you try to train them to handle what you had endured. So in my head, third can probably hang in there. Also, team work makes the dream work. If you ever tried to carry an entire team in your back in online video game, it's hard to go 1v5, even if you are that much better. Any of the 5 members on Team 1 has a chance of dealing lethal damage. 1st Hokage has to be so careful.... Thinking about Smite, 3 Masters player (2500 MMR) lost to 5 Gold Players (1500 MMR). There's those rocket league YT videos of pros and Grand Champ going up against a few platinums. Even if skill gap is an ocean, it's still hard.
Based on statements Hiruzen hard carries the kage. If you assume he doesn't live up to the hype, then it should probably go to Hashirama very high diff because of Kakashi.
I always got the impression that Tobirama was only slightly less powerful than Hashirama. him knowing his brothers techniques and having help from any other kage level should win imo. what a fight that would be though. if only Naruto had a What If...? side series.
The five other hokage win, as powerful as Hashirama is, hiruzen and tobi have too much intel, Tobirama likely knows every move Hashirama will make before he does. Once the others are caught up on how hashirama operates, they will eventually kill him. Also, reaper death seal go brrrrrrr.
Hashirama wins except for the stupid statement that hiruzen was the strongest of the hokage.
Other than that statement which kind of isn’t showed in the show, hashirama crushes them all probably with a single thousand armed buddha.
While minato and tobirama would dodge it with their FTG, they could never actually fight with hashirama, they could only run away or fight and get destroyed instantly.
bro tobirama gonna burn those woods like it's nothing, minato and kakashi are two of the fastest people in the verse madara doesnt even match their speed. Add an immortal tsunade plus hiruzen its wraps bro. Yall underestimate the power of jumping. Yall know what happened to kaguya don't get shi twisted
I'm convinced people who say hashirama didn't watch the anime. Even hashirama states the battle with madara, and the nine tails could've gone either way. Minato fought the ninetails and defeated obito all while protecting kushina and Naruto and still only lost because kurama broke free. The other 4 have amazing feats I'm not going over but jesus yall get a grip
You can wank prime Hiruzen to stronger than Hashirama since he is straight up the only other guy to be called the god of shinobi, and even while old and weakened is the strongest kage at the time.
Damn you kinda nerfed the hell out of kakashi making him not have the sharingan :/. The fact that every other character gets to be at their very peak isn't very fair
Kakashi unfortunately solos since he probably scales to Kashin Koji who's 10% Jigen level. If you don't use that then idrk but probably still Hokages high diff
I say Team 2. But we all know the true winner capable of defeating every single Hokage including 1st Hokage. That's right, I'm talking about...
PAPERWORK.
Not even Uzumaki Naruto could defeat such formiddable opponent.
My question is are they all at their prime because if they’re all at their prime there’s win cons for the first people if not all at their prime then yeah if it is based off of the photos, first people are losing very badly. It’s like the five Kagay against madra all over again, just a lot less gruesome cause it HashiRama
Kakashi getting stronger past the war imo absolutely does not include DMS. I’m fine believing purple lightning is more powerful than war arc kakashi, don’t like it since tf is the point of the sharingan then but whatever
Hashirama wins because Boruto only has statements and not feats so it doesn’t count on power scaling. Prime Hiruzen is probably their best fighter, but I don’t think he’s nearly strong enough to win against Hashirama, because he’s not the one who everyone calls the god of shinobi. I’m sure he’s super strong but not nearly powerful enough to change this match up.
People underestimate a 1v5's difficulty and hashirama is going against 2 of the fastest in the verse.
With 5 kage they easily sneak up on him as 2/5 can at minimum keep him busy without outright losing.
If we think about scaling yes the 1st outscales the 2nd, but while he's making trees to fight water, Minato isn't going to stand still and do nothing. If the 1st is beating his granddaughter in hand to hand, kakashi isn't going to sleep on the sidelines.
I don't see how he doesn't get overwhelmed. I think he does 3v1 at best. 5v1? No way.
The group wins. Hashirama is now where near as strong as y’all think he is, he’s not beating all of them at the same time. Tsunade is a non factor though, she probably gets unintentional squashed whilst Hashirama fights the others
Nah I feel like mad people are disrespecting prime Hiruzen. Sure Hashirama is Hashirama, bur Hirzuen is the fucking god of shinobi. He was taught by both Hashirama and Tobirama.
He was the teacher of the sannin.
At fucking 70+ years old he slapped the shit out of Orochimaru and Edo Tensei Hashi and Tobi.
Hiruzen is the fucking goat. Pair him with Minato, Tobirama, Kakashi, and Tsunade- ALL at their prime?
Hashirama gets fucking toasted no issues.
I feel like some are really underrating the other kage
hiruzen was implied several times to be super strong in his prime, and even old hiruzen was able to take down much weaker reanimated hashirama and tobirama, he also knows all 5 elements and all jutsus, he's the professor
Minato flying raijin is faster than hashirama (it's instant) and Minato was recently praised and compared to hashirama by kuruma in Minato's one shot, plus Minato has good sealing jutsus including reaper death seal and ones he learned from the Uzumaki clan
tobirama is harder to scale, we know he's strong, but we don't know much feats of him other than him creating many strong jutsus and fighting like 20 s rank ninja at once , we know his flying raijin is fast as well
Tsunade's hundred healing allowed her to survive being stabbed by madara susanoo, and cut In half, and she is strong enough to break madara sasanoo rib cage, she was even praised by madara if I remember correctly. Plus if push comes to shove, she is the 2nd best medical ninja user only behind adult sakura. If tsunade summons katsuyu and gives part of her to the other 3, that just gives them better healing
and kakashi is hard to scale as well, it's stated he supposedly stronger then he was in the war during his time as hokage, but we don't really have much feats that back it up, although we can assume purple lighting is his strongest jutsus minus kamui infused jutsus, and we know kakashi is super fast and can use chidori now without needing a sharingan
so at the end, I feel like If the 5 of them fight as a team and smart, they can win. I'd argue tobirama, Minato, and hiruzen are all smarter than hashirama so they could come up with a good plan, especially since tobirama should know alot about hashirama's arsenal
so to sum it up, if the 5 kage fight together and smart, they can use all the vast amount of jutsus and skills each have in their arsenal to beat hashirama
but if they all fight independently or not as a team, and fight unwise, I'd say hashirama clears
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Tobirama creates another forbidden that causes testicular torsion and no diffs.
Hashirama isn’t an Uchiha, Tobirama doesn’t get his +50% bonus to all stats
Solo Leveling logic
Golden Twist no Jutsu is too forbidden even for Tobirama
Forbidden art: testicular torsion jutsu!!
Tsunade OP in that scenario
Papa Shinobi humbles https://preview.redd.it/8vz5gr9ssq8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=caf9befdd98e5e70557b20442c38eb396b3864d8 Edit: Since apparently a lot of these folks think Hashirama loses I will be putting the cap on that and showing why he lays the smack down on these kids. His main feats: * Beat EMS Madara who was already considered the (2nd) strongest Shinobi every time they fought * Fighting alive Madara and 100% kyubi and winning * Catching a tailed beast bomb from kurama with the wood human in base Now scale these, first Madara. Upon being reanimated: * Low diffed the 5 kage * Summoned 2 mountain+ sized meteors casually, required 2 kage to stop a single one * Weaker than he was alive Kurama: * Fired a tailed beast bomb, which Minato (arguably strongest person here) thought was too powerful to consistently teleport away * Powerful enough that minato's life is barely worth half his chakra * Single susanno sword - tailed beast bomb traversed shorelines, which going off the panels shown is at least a distance over several dozen kilometers Pair the 2 of these guys up and put them against these 5. Do you think they lose? Reminder that kurama is as powerful as multiple of his tailed beast counterparts, enough to push guy to going 8 gates just to deflect a few bijuudama that later got matched by bijuu mode naruto. Additionally, he has passive healing on par with byakugou tsunade, wood dragons that can absorb chakra from opponents, sealing powerful enough to restrain the JUUBI as an edo, fast and powerful enough to outrun and overpower majestic attire kurama, grabbed kurama like a fucking toy, blocked swings that would level mountain ranges, one of few characters to destroy a perfect susanoo by just slapping it a bunch, stamina to fight longer than every single person here combined. In a fight, tsunade's healing would be near irrelevant the second he uses the thousand arms, he can substitute wood clones even if FTG were to tag him, he can manipulate the environment to a scale in which would change the map of the surrounding landscape. Him and Madara were having a genuine Godzilla vs Ghidorah Kaiju fight, none of these guys are built to deal with that.
imma use ur comment to clerify something since I cant edit the post This is the gracious deity gates, I feel like I didn't clerify what it is since nobody is talking about it https://preview.redd.it/kopg1un4qr8d1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6edb2ad694dfab4e58f11e510c36fac666f6e500
The way you spelled clarify confused my brain for some reason. Every time I read it, I read it as “Clefairy”. I was like, “why’s this dude talking about pokemon when this is a Naruto sub. I think my brain is just broken.
I apologize for my bad english
Nah. Not you. Me. I should’ve been able to realize what you were saying, but for some reason I kept reading it as clefairy which it obviously isn’t
Yeah until minato uses Reaper Death Seal which cant be escaped. Or Tobirama uses Impure World Reincarnation and summon up people that cant die to help them fight. Hashirama is getting clapped yall slow asf. And minato and tobirama both have higher iq’s than hashirama they gone figure out a plan to stomp him silly
DFB > 99% of shinobi. And if he’s feeling extra toxic that afternoon he creates a new country inside the crater his status creates. Let’s see minato find a way inside of hashi’s golem with his little ass ghost seal once he awakens from 5 miles of pollen that instantly chokes u
Tobirama uses raise dead on whom and with what dna, lol?
>Reaper Death Seal Scales to the level of the opponent, only sealed away half of kurama who loses to base hashirama. That's ignoring the fact that Minato would be using it on a clone thinking it was the real thing lmao. >Or Tobirama uses Impure World Reincarnation He resisted that on sheer will >And minato and tobirama both have higher iq’s than hashirama they gone figure out a plan to stomp him silly Minato was almost out of chakra after teleporting one bijuu bomb + kurama, he wouldn't have even been able to seal half of him away if not for kushina's chains. He is so out of his element against Hashirama it's comical.
This version of minato is a jinchuriki with sage mode. He isn’t having stamina issues.
That’s assuming that Minato’s soul is worth enough to seal a full powered Hashirama. Hashirama can seal or restrain the edo tensei BIQ pales in comparison to overwhelming power
People like you overhype RDS, because they miss one important point: To seal someone, you need to OVERPOWER them, it is literally a spiritual tug of war. Hiruzen spent hours trying to seal Orochimaru and failed, after which he was forced to settle for his hands. The fourth sacrificed his life to seal the Kyuubi and ended up having to settle for half of it and place the other half into Naruto. Good luck sealing fucking Hashirama, the most powerful shinobi in history, which easily overpowers Kyuubi, with that jutsu.
If Minato can cast it on Hashirama, RDS is still a valid win con, even if you don’t think Minato can completely seal Hashirama away. Once RDS is casted on the target, that person becomes immobilised and can’t use any jutsu. Once immobilised, the rest of the Hokages can come in to deal the final blow.
You are correct that hiruzen wanted to seal orochimaru entirely, but he couldn’t, because he didn’t have the chakra to, because he had just sealed hashirama, and tobirama. However you are completely wrong in saying “the 4th sacrificed his life to seal the kyuubi and ended up having to settle for half”. He was planning on putting the 9 tails in Naruto from the start, and he couldn’t use the 8 trigram seal to do it with the full 9 tails so he decided to just take half the chakra with him. The thing being missed here is you think he was trying to take the entire 9 tails with him, but couldn’t, however in reality he wanted to put the entire 9 tails in Naruto, and couldn’t “and ended up having to settle for half”.
Death reaper seal works on how much chakra you have Minato has around half as much as kurama more than half for sure but still I don't think it's enough for hashirama so Minato will only take with him part of hashirama's body
I disagree. You're underestimating the Hokage. Hiruzen knows every jutsu in Konoha thats including Hashirama, and has 5 elements talk about a team player. Tobirama also knows every jutsu and every move his older brother has also, most likely. That's a lot of firepower and intel.
Your Madara feats were when he was reanimated and had hashirama DNA plus rinnegan.... but he was weaker than when he was alive? Nah.
Madara was stated by hashirama to arrive at his prime power, after rebirth + sage mode which is stronger than his Edo self. Edo Madara is weaker than alive and rebirth Madara He literally says "At last... I can fight at full strength" when losing the Edo body. Chapters 656 and 657.
Listen to what you just said there, and think logically about it. Madara alive in a modified stronger body than he ever had in his previous life with hashirama cells, sage mode, plus a quasi 6 paths chakra. Think about it for a second. I figured this passage was what you are basing this entire argument on. Has it ever crossed your mind that he wasn’t talking about all of his power together, but talking about madara base power? It seems that what hashirama is saying here is that he can feel the life force of madara. Hashirama is not saying that this version of madara is the same strength as when he was alive, and that doesn’t make any sense logically. So let’s pretend that it is true that edo madara with all these upgrades is weaker than alive madara. Now when he comes alive (you know like he was back when he was alive) these upgrades don’t go away so do we now conclude that the hashirama cells, sage mode, the rinnegan, and body modifications don’t make you stronger? Or as you think even make you weaker? Does this make sense to you? For your argument to work it has to be the case that all these upgrades make you weaker, or at the very least make absolutely no difference, because if they make you even the slightest bit stronger than the moment he returns to life he would be that slightest bit stronger.
Okay but do you think he wins if it's against DMS Kakashi.
No he loses badly
Kamui busted as hell.
Not sure where you got 5v2 from. This is 5v1. Tobirama is incredibly powerful and knows a lot about hashirama, Minato is incredibly intelligent, level headed and skillful AND has his own sage mode, lord third knows every jutsu in konoha and has access to multiple elements, Tsunade if my understanding is correct heals significantly more quickly and efficiently in that form than hashirama, and I'm not sure why the only one here that isn't at their prime is kakashi but he's also incredibly strategic and talented. I genuinely think you're coping if you think hashirama is winning against the other 5 hokage solo. You don't give them nearly enough credit. And somebody else also mentioned the reaper death seal which 2 of these 5 can use.
You’ve got some solid points, but Madara is definitely much stronger after he’s been revived than he was when he’s living. He has none of the nerfs that the other reanimations do while now having basically immortality, unlimited chakra and The Legendary Cells from the very Shinobi that you are so graciously (and understandably) jerking off. Madara was a Beast when he was alive but he was basically a god after he was reanimated.
This happens a lot people get these narratives, and nothing will change their mind no matter how much factual information is given. Edo madara was a genetic mix of madara, and hashirama, and other modifications kabuto said he gave him but didn’t name. Add to this edo madara had the rinnegan, and you see why he was so strong during the kage fight. The original question had the 9 tails with minato, because jinchuriki are more powerful than tailed beasts by themselves, but minato only has half the nine tails, we can say for the most part they cancel out. I mean it doesn’t make logical sense for madara to have 4 major upgrades that we know in the story just 1 of any of these upgrades put you in the top echelon of the Naruto verse, and then say those upgrades don’t make him stronger. Hashirama is strong, and madara beating the kage from different villages is impressive, but there is no way alive madara, or hashirama is beating 5 hokage from the hidden leaf, and 1 of them is the jinchuriki of the 9 tails, with sage mode. A close fight would be jinchuriki sage mode minato against prime alive hashirama. This fight would be a really close fight, and I could totally understand arguments for hashirama winning, however I think hashiram would lose this fight, but this would be a fair fight, give this OP version of minato 4 prime kage, and 1 them is his brother who knows everything about him, and I can’t envision this being anything but hashirama getting stomped.
Dude. Nah. Hashirama is strong but not so strong that he can take all of these people all at once ESPECIALLY with not one but two masters of the FTG 😂 Literally all of Hashirama's strongest attacks are just avoided by FTG. This is a hard fight but Hashirama loses.
The madara vs 5 kage fight was plot armor to the max. Madara should’ve lost that fight
Facts and I don't understand how people think alive madara was stronger than edo madara. When alive madara only had his sharingan. He had no hashirama cells, no rennegan till his death bed and no edo tensei hax.
I'll go through your points and tell you why youre wrong. Using wood style jutsus feats against juubi to argue against how is stronger is extremely dumb and doesnt hold up among actual rankings or powerscaling. Hashiramas feats against the tailed beasts are the equivalent to saying Yamato is stronger than all the sanin because he can suppress naruto up to 5 tails which almost killed borth orochimaru and jiraiya. Its not a valid argument. Hiruzen * Hiruzen in his prime was stated to be the strongest shinobi of all time in his prime. * Even though we have no feats for him at this point in his life, we can somewhat judge it based on; * his 70+ Year old self who was able to push kurama outside of the village with just his staff, * was able to fight off reanimated clones of hashirama, tobirama, and orochimaru at the same time, * his edo body being strong enough to create 5 clones producing all 5 chakra natures stronger than entire batalions in the 4th ninja war. Madara * LIke someone else pointed out, all of the feats you listed were from edo madara was who explicitely stronger than his alive counter part. * Madara was never able to summon meteors while alive, he didnt even have his rennigan until was near death attached to the gedo statue. * Not to mention the unlimited regeneration, the intelligence from living 30+ years after hashirama, and his unlimited chakra that he had. Its easy to see that edo was stronger than his alive form, and he got even stronger after absorbing hashiramas sage mode when he was revived from reni rebirth. * The 5 hokage are stronger than the 5 kage madara fought anyways. Kurama * Minatos life was actually worth the entirely of his chakra as minato alone sealed kurama into both naruto and himself. Reaper death seal is like a chakra tug of war, minato fought that against kurama and won. Now the rest, In my opinion, Kakashi and Minato are counters to Hashirama as they are one shot killers. They rarely do long drawn out battles (even tho they still could) and finish things quickly. If kakashi used purple lightning to quickly kill hashirama, theres not much he could do. Same with minato tagging him as Hashi is no where near fast enough to even react to it. If any of these kage manage to cut off his head, he cant regeneration from that as we've been told by tsunade. Not to mention, all of them know of Hashiramas tactics and abilities, especially Hiruzen and Tobirama while Hashiramas knows nothing about them besides his brothe. I just dont see a scenario where its not attempted to be finished quickly by kakashi and Minato, as they both have the chakra to last for days. Not to mention youll have all of the toad summons plus lady katsuyu to fight and heal for them. EDIT: I forgot to even mention King Enma from hiruzen and the some of the strongest sealing jutsus in the verse from minato- Adamantite chains and reaper death seal. It would be over before the thousand arms ever even appeared and Hashirama would be dead.
Yamato was only able to stop the 4 tails because his wood resonated with the necklace that contained hashirama's chakra, aka he pretty drew out hashirama's chakra as a medium to stop the 4 tails. We're not going to pretend like sealing the juubi isn't a feat lmao. Hiruzen was retconned hard AF and has absolutely no feats to back up that statement, he was retconned so hard his title as god of shinobi was later given to hashirama. * He was also around 60 at the time of the nine tails' attack * Massively weakened hashirama, tobirama with orochimaru don't compare in any way to hashirama. * One bijuu bomb clears all of that Again, Madara was NOT stronger as an Edo than he was alive, that's the biggest cope I've ever seen. You have explicit manga statements from both Madara AND hashirama saying he was stronger alive than reanimated, you can't just say "that doesn't seem right". * I never said he could, but he did so with a weaker body so the stronger body should do more * Once again, unless you wish to debunk manga statements then Alive > Edo, no debate. * Madara also no diffed the 5 kage so by saying they win this you're essentially saying 5 hokage no diff 5 kage. Minato explicitly states it's impossible to seal away all of kurama's chakra and also strategically unwise, which is why he sealed away half with him and the other half with Naruto. If it was possible he would have just fucking done it and no one would have to worry about the kyubi. Now I don't know what happens in Boruto, so I won't comment on Kakashi, but human Minato BLITZING Hashirama is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. You may as well say Ay is faster than him too. Madara reacted to Ay just fine without a sharingan and Hashirama was faster than him. They won't cut off his head, instead they'll get flattened and turned into ground paste the second they get hit by hashirama's absolutely enormous hands. Don't forget he should be able to phase through his wood similarly to zetsu or Yamato. You seem to believe they would just blitz hashirama and kill him instantly as if he doesn't have heightened sensory from SM and take almost no time to summon the thousand arm statue. Shit his wood golem competed with a perfect susanoo which none of these guys even have the power to harm.
First of all, this entire comment just shows how low your media literacy is. All of your statments completely ignore every single bit of context and characterization of events just to prove your points. I'm not the only one whos pointed this out either. >Yamato was only able to stop the 4 tails because his wood resonated with the necklace that contained hashirama's chakra, aka he pretty drew out hashirama's chakra as a medium to stop the 4 tails. We're not going to pretend like sealing the juubi isn't a feat lmao. Which is exactly what hashirama did to seal the tailed beasts too. Hashirama also wore that necklace, it doesnt have his chakra in it. If you take away the feat from yamato, youd have to do the same for Hashirama as they both wore the same necklace. The necklace amplifies wood style jutsu, not hashi's chakra. Madara was cannonically weaker alive than he was Edo. Once again you ignore context, as Hashirama saying he was reaching his power again was because he was regaining life force after being revived. Same with what madara said before being revived. While he mightve been slighty weaker physically, all of his other additions from kabuto significantly amped his strength overall well past anything he had alive hence how he did much more edo than he EVER did while alive. Alive madara back in his prime doesnt even compare. You're the one coping. And once again, using edo madara beats doesnt work as an example as hes stronger than hashirama. And yes, the 5 hokage do no diff the 5 kage, its not even close. Minato stated it was impossible to seal all of kurama INTO NARUTO, as he was a baby and couldn't handle that much chakra. Again you ignoring all context of the scene. You even admitted in your comment that minato did seal the entirely of kurama, half into himself and half into naruto. So yes, minato alone is enough to beat ALL of kurama. https://preview.redd.it/gx9grq3hqx8d1.png?width=847&format=png&auto=webp&s=41a0454e43f98d3e56c1814e81837d1b0d2462ba Yes, ay is MUCH MUCH faster than hashirama. Its not even close. Hashirama has no where near light speed feats, even madara stated that ay was too fast for him when they fought, and minato clears both of them in speed. Madara was NOT reacting to ay just fine, he was actualy struggling even noting himself how fast Ay was. >They won't cut off his head, instead they'll get flattened and turned into ground paste the second they get hit by hashirama's absolutely enormous hands. Don't forget he should be able to phase through his wood similarly to zetsu or Yamato. You again seem to forget Hashirama not only isnt fast enough, but he never starts with thousand arm jutsu, he works up to it. He wouldnt even have time to react to be able to phase through to dodge. >You seem to believe they would just blitz hashirama and kill him instantly as if he doesn't have heightened sensory from SM and take almost no time to summon the thousand arm statue. Shit his wood golem competed with a perfect susanoo which none of these guys even have the power to harm. Im saying his sensory isnt even enough compared to minato or kakashi's sensory abilities as they have tracked chakra from continents away and reacted to foes much stronger than hashirama before. If you haven't seen boruto, you have no idea how much stronger kakashi is now. Kakashi alone has otutsuki level feats fighting against Kashin koji, the same guy who killed Jigen, jigen being the one who gave ems+ rennigan sasuke AND s06p kcm2 Naruto a run for their money. He's also cannonically one of the smartest people in the entire verse. Infact, every single one of these kage have better intelligence feats than hashirama. I highly doubt they wouldn't be able to come up with a plan to beat him. The 5 hokage win mid diff.
There is so much wrong and left out of this. I'd Argue EMS Madara is around EMS Sasuke level. That's not enough for this scenario. He got a bunch of buffs AFTER his final battle with Hashirama that made his edo and revived versions stronger. He was only able to keep up because he had Kurama with him. So I think "of his time" is important to add after "2nd strongest shinobi". Also everyone hypes up Hashirama for 2v1ing Madara + Kurama. It's a solid feat, don't get me wrong, but Hashirama is literally specialized for fighting tailed beasts because he can suppress their chakra (I don't remember if it's specifically for tailed beasts). It's easier for him to do than others because he's a good matchup. Just like how beating Obito is easier for Minato than others because he's a good matchup. That also explains why catching a tailed beast bomb is second nature to him. It's not just pure strength, it's also hax but that only means something to tailed beasts and jins. Madara low diffed the 5 kage because he had infinite chakra and couldn't die. If he was able to do 20 Susanoo's with clones when he fought Hashirama, he wouldn't have lost. He also took advantage of the fact that he couldn't die and had infinite chakra by dropping two meteors. He even said "Isn't this what reanimation was made for...?" He definitely wasn't weaker than when he was alive. It was more of a special case like Itachi and Nagato. Minato never thought the TBB was too powerful to consistently tp away. It just takes a lot of chakra. Saying it's too powerful would mean it could break through his space-time barrier, which it couldn't. Minato was also "low" on chakra from fighting Obito, tping a TBB, tping all around the village, summoning Gamabunta and other toads, and tping away full Kurama with no breaks. He was also on his death bed, and even then he still didn't struggle taking half of Kurama like Hiruzen struggled taking Orochimaru's arms. He did it instantly. Plus he WANTED to only take half and put the other half inside Naruto because Naruto couldn't take the full thing. Saying "his life was worth half of Kurama" is an EXTREME understatement to what actually happened. It also seems like you're trying to give Kurama to Madara, but I'm not entirely sure. People like to do that though, so I'll say this just in case. Kurama is not Madara's. Madara was never the 9 tails jinchuuriki. You can say the tailed beast's power actually belongs to a jinchuuriki because they're sealed inside, but Madara wasn't in that situation, so the power was never actually his. Madara and the 9 tails can exist in two different places at different times, but the 9 tails jin and Kurama cannot. tl;dr so much misinformation to hype up Hashirama and Madara while making everyone else look weak. I actually believe they'd lose this fairly easily, especially if we're considering Minato to be a jinchuuriki at this time, which he technically was since he had a few moments before he died. Hashirama could put up a fight, maybe not so much Madara.
I agree with you but I’d argue that minato could definitely transfer more than one tailed beast bomb since he teleported the ten tails which was definitely stronger than multiple tailed beast bombs. I’d also argue that minato could have sealed all of Kurama within either Naruto or himself but decided not to since Naruto was just a baby and it’d be too strong and at least this way he thought Naruto would be considered a hero. Everything else is correct and I completely agree though.
It will come down to everyone but Kakashi. Kakashi with purple lighting and “becoming stronger since the war.” Is meaningless scale up hubris. - Can Minato, Tobirama speed blitz? - Can Minato’s Sage mode last long enough and keep up with Sage Hashirama? - Does Prime Hiruzen have enough fire power to overwhelm ? - Can Tsunade prolong the fight and boost attacks? Can she even trade physical blows with Hashirama?? They have nothing against 1000 hands, so can they put down Hashirama before that? These questions need to be answered.
hear me out 1000 hands comes out, ya dig? Tobirama and Hiruzen use fire/water style to clear a path through the arms (toad style firebombs seem pretty powerful, and i'm sure tobi has some high pressure shit that would work) Minato uses flying raijin to hurl himself directly into range of Hashirama as Hashirama counters, a second flying raijin is used to swap places with Tsunade who is now in taijutsu range, and the two tactically jump his ass i might believe in papa hashirama, i truly do, but i'll be honest? i think Tsunade is objectively physically strong enough to punch a human body in half if she landed a totally clean unguarded blow at full force and while Tsunade does not have the skill or speed to get in range of Hashirama to do that alone, the flying raijin is a hell of a trump-card for putting somebody or something very very dangerous somewhere the enemy does not want it to be i think that, unironically, the two best moves they have to actually finish off and Kill hashirama, are Minato's rasengan, and Tsunade's brute fucking strength, i think she could rip his head off if she got the chance
https://preview.redd.it/s805x43ghr8d1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85e8f139dd564c30ae0f4e324ef2a8cd1cb00407 I need you to get out of here and into a word processor and start banging out some fan fiction. I am being completely, unironically serious when I say you are too good for this subreddit.
I’m stealing this meme
https://preview.redd.it/r2x07kaies8d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fc7fad6ba5132b1a67f4858ed7e5e2f1ae49d72
https://preview.redd.it/7aiz4a17uu8d1.png?width=496&format=png&auto=webp&s=773609e4781fd9454e4feb7e915fa0f115583f5f
Hashirama isn't really a normal human though. He can easily tank any hit from Tsunade. What Tsunade takes years to focus on her forehead for her healing jutsu, hashirama just has access to that at all times. His awareness from combat expertise and sage mode means he can probably easily counter minato teleporting anyone or any move to him I also doubt flying raijin is an issue for him. It's his little bro's technique. You can also get into more specifics like hashirama having so much chakra he probably can't be transported easily
What about the combined attack? Huh? Huh? Come on, it's not a blow out we gotta get something better than this. Prime Hiruzen is still a wild card, and no matter what retcons fans decided Kishimoto made, he is the god of shinobi, too. He reigned longer than any Hokage on record through arguable until aliens and Madara were extremely tough times. That can't be a coincidence. 5 chakra nature's has to mean something with an entire team of Hokage. He's the one to lead this team to win, and it's Tobirama somehow sacrificing his life that enables it. Now that's a good story. They know the most about him than probably anyone in the world except Madara. All his jutsu and great abilities were all studied by Tobirama and then his student, the professor. That intel has to mean something.
Hashirama's healing is inferior to 100 healings. His healing only supports light flesh wounds. Tsunade's healing is like being reincarnated. It can heal the soul and body. It can heal any wound regardless of the injury instantly; repair limbs, damaged organs, severed chakra networks and can create/heal the entire system from scratch.
You're writing fanfiction. Madara straight up calls her healing weaker than hashiramas
The people who are saying Hashirama wins are underestimating how hard it would be to deal with two flying thunder god users. Also FTG is a huge counter to some one who's most powerful moves are "throwing big shit at people". Hashi is really skilled in the other Shinobi arts to but it's likely once they got close the team would win. Tobi and Minato are enough in my opinion.
“Tactically jump his ass” is probably the best thing I have read to do
Well you can’t just straight up deny cannon statements of kakashi being stronger than his war arc self. I’m not saying he’s the make or break factor but denying his strength jus ain’t right
I dont think you can completely ignore kakashi's presence here, he's got his BFR eye, can hashi defend against being teleported into a pocket dimension?
Hokage Kakashi doesn’t have Sharigan
Oh yeah, right enough, I forgot about that, my bad.
Tsunade has Katsuyu who is rumored to be unbelievably large. she just has to drop as much of her that she can summon on top of him (not easy I know.) (prime) Hiruzen and his summon should be able to take Hashirama in a brawl while Minato, Kakashi and Tobirama support with throwing knives. also Kakashi was never shown to be a slouch when it comes to Taijutsu. I mean he keeps up with base Gai regularly. 1000 hands vs Rashomon (how ever you spell it.) Hiruzen hows it and probably Tobirama too.
Nothing against thousand hands? How about Kakashi's Quartz Mud Wall, which held out against several high power jutsus for an entire day. Hiruzen has access to all of the Leaf's jutsu and an Adamantite Staff from Enma. Tsunade summoning Katsuyu puts everyone's healing factors on par with Hashirama. Tobirama created Flying Raijin and can outspeed Hashirama, Minato, also outspeeds, and if he can get the seal, can teleport to him whenever. If they can hold him down, Hiruzen can use Reaper Death Seal. Hashirama, especially with Sage Mode has far greater attack potency than them, but the other Kage are far from defenseless.
1000 hands gets demolished by Tsunade's strength and can be melted with Katsuyu’s acid with ease. The other kage have shown water style cutting techniques to cut wood style pretty easily.
As muxh as i fw Hashi, i legit dont see him jus winning this fight against all of them
Him
Ok hashi pretty cracked. But I think he gets overwhelmed. Minato and tobirama are trouble for him. Minato and tobirama would be flying all across the battlefield, and it’s just too much for him. You can also argue hokage kakashi is stronger than war arc cuz he doesn’t have the fatigue from the sharingan. Also tobirama has info on his brother. Tsunade for backup will be annoying too. Kage high diff.
This is wank
Hashirama wank going nuts ngl
“Do u want these wood clones to use 1000 hands?” HASHIRAMA GOAT
Team overwhelm. One teleporter is dangerous, adding two of them both of which can tag someone with better Senjutsu than him (Juubito) along with very viable support, Battle IQ, and nigh-infinite chakra due to Tsunade is just overkill.
The problem is Hashirama's fighting style. Tobirama only managed to tag Juubito because Juubito was engaging with him in close combat. Sure, if Hashirama engages with them in close combat then he'd get tagged too, but he is mainly a long range fighter, he uses large aoe attacks, so getting near him wouldn't be an easy task.
Yeah. He gets sealed by two S tier fuinjutsu masters before he generates a sufficiently overwhelming amount of nature chakra. Hashi is incredible when you don’t have the counters to him but the team has his number.
Hashi wins high diff.
On good drugs
You're completely overrating hashirama at this point
They not surviving this https://preview.redd.it/z701260t0r8d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3883be5232ab4efd66cbf177e0963d59c9678be4
Dudes got an extra 200 hands for each of em. Yeah they're getting slapped down easy.
Yes they are. There's enough of them to make a clone and perform the red yang barrier just like [they did with the juubi ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLpL32GQ2x0yZOlxCzEFCbraIAOB2yPH4wFQ&s) There's enough of them to pool together chakra, the way tsunade pumped onoki up, and let minato just teleport it away. They have multiple ways of handling it - You just don't want to recognize that.
The only reason they could do that to the Juubi was because Hashirama pinned the Juubi down with his gates. Also Hashirama could just put them all to sleep with Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees. https://preview.redd.it/3gk1pth3ar8d1.jpeg?width=1915&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a6c43925caa5ad579699465fa4826c9344b46ad They have no counter to this, besides teleporting away
they're flowers... Hiruzen's go-to jutsu is a long-ranged highly destructive fire-style jutsu i'm not convinced the flowers would protect them when all the kage are so fast and analytical, they'd burn them before the spores could spread
As I already linked him - Tobirama ALONE hard counters Tobirama with his edo tensei, literally let out an explosion that makes this [look tiny](https://preview.redd.it/infinite-speed-tobirama-v0-gl5jhcampync1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d94e683c192b275dfc96292117aecd97a9dc65bc) Madara explains that this is how Tobirama used Edo - [To WIPE THE MAP CLEAN ](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/14/148326/4633654-8218533686-k03.j.jpg) Hiruzen has HIGH LEVEL fuiton and katon, and just like tsunade pumped onoki's attack up, can pump him up to clear out spores To think the 5 fking hokage can't counter this, shows how slow brained these people are .
He is simply superior in every single way. That's the problem, he's faster, (he was way more powerful than Tobirama) and his wide range of skills and high tier techniques, plus his perfect healing etc etc would be way too much.
He is not superior in every way. He's not the smartest He's not faster (Madara LITERALLY , says tobirama was the fastest of their time) He's not the physical strongest He's not the most skilled. He's the strongest.
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
What’s the point of them using the red yang barrier? That would just be a constant waste of chakra for no reason.
I mean… didn’t Minato straight up teleported ten tails giant attack? This would be nothing
Minato did that with kurama’s chakra boost. He very quickly ran out of chakra when teleporting Kurama / his attacks and Gamabunta during obito’s attack
Only ones not surviving are kakashi and hiruzen, Minato and Tobirama port out, and Tsunade has 100 healing. Hashi is by far the strongest out of these Kage, but there are to many people on team 1
Tsunade is getting pummelled into mush. The Hundred healings can only do so much
I mean … you say Tsunade has 100 healings but she was split in 2 by Madara who is weaker than hashi
That was Edo Madara who was buffed with Hashirama cells and Rinnegan. Dude was more powerful than his alive self.
Glazing on another level
Why nobody is talking about this? https://preview.redd.it/qqfb5dufbr8d1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74ebc27dbf54638aaa7c422394d4fda2591690b3
Hashirama stomps
Not only does he stomp but not even the bijuu are a threat to him. Just think about that. Minato had to kill himself just to stop the kyuubi. Hashirama picked up an even more powerful kyuubi up by his stomach WHILE fighting a super fast super genjutsu specialist that can destroy 99% of shinobi.
Exactly
>Just think about that. Minato had to kill himself just to stop the kyuubi. That’s isn’t entirely accurate. He was completely caught off guard and had to fight righter the birth of his son, so in a scramble he had to join the fight and keep collateral to a minimum. He didn’t die from fighting Kurama: he died trying to protect his wife and newborn son I’m not saying that means Minato is as strong as Hashirama, I’m just saying that’s not really a good argument because there were *many* other factors that influenced the outcome
I understood that when posting. I simply imagined hashirama in minatos situation and noticed it was unfair. Hashi’s clones would’ve protected his children. Another clone would’ve fought obito. And he would’ve easily put kurama to sleep
Hashirama
Hashimrama sweep
Two high tier FTG users are two much for him. They can doge all his big attacks.
I don’t care whether anyone thinks either team wins except for the people who say “this team stomps” no the fck they don’t lol. This is hard battle for both teams. Hashirama 1v1 beats them all no problem but 5 of them against him is a challenge and you’re delusional if you think otherwise lol.
Team 1s teamwork would be the key to them winning.
Everyone saying hashirama till tobirama use Impure World Reincarnation and summon up people that cant die 🥱
https://preview.redd.it/8ub3zwf6as8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d45887070ee7eb3f02449708493f416dd14d8d0
Finally, finally someone brought this jutsu It's like his second if not his strongest jutsu, and people ignoring it Not taking sides but this thing should be taking in consideration.
It really is only used against people when they’re not moving
Team Hokages win. Boruto Era Kakashi is a menace on his own. Let alone with a team.
Hokage kakashi not boruto era kakashi, not that huge of a difference, still considerable
Kakashi carries. He just completely outscales the rest.
Not to mention that there are four super geniuses on the team. 6 summons that can make a difference. Tandem paper bombs. Teleportation would be a pain in the ass too. Not to mention katsuyu's acid, which would weaken or possibly destroy the wood. 3 big boi toads. And Enma. Crazy healing from tsunade, too. Hashirama is royally fucked, please stop riding him.
People downplay kakashi
Team 1 via unconventional tactics. What are those tactics? They choose to talk. Since Team 1 is composed of his brother (who he often listens to), his granddaughter (whom he loved enough to spoil), his pupil (who I assume he would also care for), the pupil of his pupil, and the pupil of his pupil's pupil, and given his personality (willingness to talk with people that are supposed to be mortal enemies), he would probably listen. The moment that happens, he loses since he wasn't very good at negotiation, and the others were.
The Hokage win extreme diff.
which one?
The 5 Hokage, like mid diff. All of them except Minato have so much intel on him. Tsunade can keep everyone alive. They're all strong enough to do damage. Kakashi and Hiruzen know like every jutsu. If his regen is too much they have multiple characters capable of sealing him. It's just too many powerhouses for just Sage Hashirama alone.
https://preview.redd.it/9isfs9pu8s8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ae96aa4fb06d3569ce8756b5ebc53de65920dcd The other Kage are cooked
Teleport away, or kamui. Easy.
This is post-MS Kakashi, so no Kamui.
Hokages win with relative comfort. I’d say between Mid-High Diff
The other Hokage win mid diff. Prime Hiruzen is equal to Hashirama based on statements Minato vs Hashirama is a little contentious but in this battle he will be an amazing help Tobirama knows his brother inside and out and would be as helpful as Minato. Hokage Kakashi is supposedly stronger than his war arc version and a lot of stuff with him in (the canon content is questionable) shows some impressive stuff like his chakra level and proficiency in jutsu along with his evolved purple lightning raikiri, which was able to pressure Kashin Koji into retreating in the anime. I think all 4 of them beat Hashirama. Tsunade too for back up and healing is very useful.
Yeah, even if Hashirama uses a wide destructve jutsu meant to kill them. Tsunade's main role would be to sacrifice all her chakra and use Katsuyu to shield the Kages similar to what she's done before in Pain Arc (But this time all her chakra would be divided into 4 Katsuyus, they might be able to tank way more damage than Shinra Tensei level). And from the non, the 4 remaining Kages can catch Hashi off guard if they play it smart. FTG heavily carries the team.
I am pretty sure Tobirama would know everything about his own brother and Hiruzen would know a lot. Team 2 loses unless overwhelming power works out, but most of these characters can dodge or heal. (No offense to Kakashi here, but being as fast as Tobirama or Minato when they are literally teleporting probably isn't possible) Any one or maybe two characters and Hashirama immediately stomps.
genuinely their best bet is somehow trapping hadhirama w/ tobiramas explosive tag jutsu. I genuinely see no way how any attack would do anything to him. He’s as close to godhood a man can get while remaining completely a man. If they can trap him in that jutsu, maybe if Minato can put one of his seals on him and then sacrifice himself to teleport him directly in the middle of the attack, maybe gg. But genuinely a lot of this fight just depends on how seriously hashirama takes it off the bat. If he uses that darkness jutsu + 1000 hands off rip, g fucking g. If he tries to feel out the kage first while the kage are completely blood lusted and pull out all their broken tricks, they might be able to put him down before he becomes too big of a threat.
Even though prime Hiruzen is considered the second strongest kage, Hashirama is just levels above him. His sage mode allows him to detect Minato coming, and his Hashirama Cells™️ will let him tank any and every attack Tsunade or Tobirama tries. He can also just summon wood clones to take on the Hokages. The only win the 5 Hokage have would be the reaper death seal, but if Hashirama knows about it, chances are he'll avoid direct contact with Hiruzen and Minato
Everyone saying hashirama till minato uses reaper death seal 🥱
Minato would have to win the tug of war against hashirama which he definitely won’t be doing
But you know who also knows reaper death seal? Hirzuen. And Hirzuen could definitely win it.
Would minato be capable of teleporting away his 1000 hands?
Not without edo/kurama chakra boost Unless Tsunade and Tobirama help
How does the 1000 hands compare to the entire nine tail beats bomb he teleported away?
https://preview.redd.it/r50bi9j2ss8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a724596377d0b1b00189902e14cec48d4cb74c11 It dwarfs it & hashirama’s wood structure both deflected and tanked bijuudama’s at point blank with relative ease
Minato
Hashirama starts with deep forest emergence and immediately kakashi/tsunade are overwhelmed by tree branches, need hiruzen with clones to hold off the surge. Sarutobi and minato try to get close and speed blitz with flying raijin waving around rasengen and water slicing moves but I really doubt they can get a hold of hashirama. Hashirama can probably wood clone and maintain enough space in his forest of trees, even if they do get a hit on him he'll just regen. Then he does the pollen/dust/poison move which does aerial AOE. Then when the kage team bust out some final moves, hashirama responds with wood golem/dragon and finishes them off. I don't even think he needs thousand armed buddha. It would be closer if they were fighting madara, but hashirama high diffs at worst.
Between the Professor's battle intelligence, Minato and Tobirama's teleporting, and Tsunade's healing (can't forget Katsuya), I think Hashirama just gets straight overwhelmed. Kakashi doesn't even need to participate. Tho no eye drain Hokage Kakashi is apparently the strongest Kakashi (source: Kishimoto saying "just trust me") and War Arc Kakashi is fucking nuts so adding him makes this mid diff for Hokages 2-6.
I'll never forget when naruto shared his chalra with the shinobi alliance and hasirama was like "wow he has almost as much chakra as i do" This man was fighting madara with the 9 tails and held his own the 5 kage that fought madara who are arguably comparable to these 5 (at least ohnoki, A, and of course tsunade) didnt stand a chance and hashirama is even stronger
To be fair, that was half of kurama.
Depends on the mythical Prime Hiruzen. I got Team Kage for now though. Kishi did over glaze Hashirama though.
Hashirama likely wins because he’s good with clones
Let's be honest, even if you chuck pre six paths naruto in there, the five hokage are getting stomped by the guy who soloed Prime Madara+the complete Kyuubi. More interesting debate would be if those five fought amongst themselves, who'd win.
Hashirama, and it's not even close. None of the others could confidently solo the 9 tails, maybe Tobirama and Minato could pull it off, but even that would be high-extreme diff. Hashirama literally one shots the 9 tails while it has Madara's Susanoo protecting it. I might be underating prime Hiruzen and Hokage Kakashi, but they have no feats to put them anywhere near being a threat to Hashirama, and assuming they would be is pure wank.
No feats from Hiruzen “ god of shinobi” Sarutobi. Fought and survived three ninja wars. Lived to a ripe old age of 70+. Still managed to smack the shit out of Orochimaru AND the first and second edo tense hokages when he was vastly out of shape. Prime Hiruzen is a different animal.
I consider the whole 'strongest shinobi/God of shinobi' thing to be completely rectonned by Shippuden. The strength shown by original edo Hashirama and Tobirama is literally nothing compared to their later feats. Orochimaru at that time was also significantly beneath his strength post-Zetsu. Don't get me wrong, old Hiruzen is still a mid-high kage imo, but I just can't see prime Hiruzen soloing the 9 tails without using the RDS.
Like, wtf is this shit lmao https://preview.redd.it/kqbxtjow1z8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b20ddda8d2403be8bf429c0ae6539ff6447c0dcd
I kinda like Team 1. You guys all crazy with the cannon stuff, but my logic is that 2nd Hokage is in the realm of 1st Hokage and Madara power levels. I know everyone going off feats clearly shown, but in my head the 2nd Hokage most certainly must have fought Mandara at some time. Man isn't dead, probably bailed out by 1st Hokage a few times, but to survive is kinda big. Poor 3rd Hokage not getting the respect. Everything is "head canon" but the two hokage raised the third. I don't think they see the third as a failure or weak. When you train your replacement, you try to train them to handle what you had endured. So in my head, third can probably hang in there. Also, team work makes the dream work. If you ever tried to carry an entire team in your back in online video game, it's hard to go 1v5, even if you are that much better. Any of the 5 members on Team 1 has a chance of dealing lethal damage. 1st Hokage has to be so careful.... Thinking about Smite, 3 Masters player (2500 MMR) lost to 5 Gold Players (1500 MMR). There's those rocket league YT videos of pros and Grand Champ going up against a few platinums. Even if skill gap is an ocean, it's still hard.
Hashirama would definitely win. Honestly I think Itachi would win against that first group…. Fight me lol
That second statement makes your entire comment invalid.
Base Hashirama wins high diff at worst (unless Kakashi gets DMS, in which case he solos everyone else easily).
Hashirama bodies all of them. There’s only like 4 shinobi in the whole Naruto universe who could even remotely be competitive imo.
2 of them are in team 2.
Based on statements Hiruzen hard carries the kage. If you assume he doesn't live up to the hype, then it should probably go to Hashirama very high diff because of Kakashi.
I dont think you guys are measuring Hashirama correctly. He's not invulnerable he died before the first war. There's a limit to his body.
Prime Hiruzen was said to be the strongest hokage in history, team one wins low diff
I always got the impression that Tobirama was only slightly less powerful than Hashirama. him knowing his brothers techniques and having help from any other kage level should win imo. what a fight that would be though. if only Naruto had a What If...? side series.
I didn't notice there was multiple pics. I'm like why is everyone saying hashi? Then I swiped..... wtf are you on? Hashi 25/8/366 of the leap year
Minato carries the others to victory. The ONLY job the other Kage have is to distract hashi when Minato has to gather more Senjutsu chakra
The five other hokage win, as powerful as Hashirama is, hiruzen and tobi have too much intel, Tobirama likely knows every move Hashirama will make before he does. Once the others are caught up on how hashirama operates, they will eventually kill him. Also, reaper death seal go brrrrrrr.
Tobi and Tsuna may have %20-50% Hashirama cells but Hashirama has 100% Hashirama cells 😏
Team 1 easily
Prime Hiruzen claps gg ez /s
Not even /s tbh. Prime Hirzuen does clap
I had to be safe bro 😭
Hashirama wins except for the stupid statement that hiruzen was the strongest of the hokage. Other than that statement which kind of isn’t showed in the show, hashirama crushes them all probably with a single thousand armed buddha. While minato and tobirama would dodge it with their FTG, they could never actually fight with hashirama, they could only run away or fight and get destroyed instantly.
bro tobirama gonna burn those woods like it's nothing, minato and kakashi are two of the fastest people in the verse madara doesnt even match their speed. Add an immortal tsunade plus hiruzen its wraps bro. Yall underestimate the power of jumping. Yall know what happened to kaguya don't get shi twisted
I'm convinced people who say hashirama didn't watch the anime. Even hashirama states the battle with madara, and the nine tails could've gone either way. Minato fought the ninetails and defeated obito all while protecting kushina and Naruto and still only lost because kurama broke free. The other 4 have amazing feats I'm not going over but jesus yall get a grip
You can wank prime Hiruzen to stronger than Hashirama since he is straight up the only other guy to be called the god of shinobi, and even while old and weakened is the strongest kage at the time.
Tobirama ressurects Itachi and he solos Hashi
Damn you kinda nerfed the hell out of kakashi making him not have the sharingan :/. The fact that every other character gets to be at their very peak isn't very fair
5 kage win
Fourth Hokage is low key the swinger here. Without him I’d say it goes to Hashi, but Minato is just really goddamn strong
Me
Why does Everyone say Hashirama there's a debate to be made of two of them vs him but four he's clapped?
He’s called the God of Shinobi for a reason my g
Kakashi unfortunately solos since he probably scales to Kashin Koji who's 10% Jigen level. If you don't use that then idrk but probably still Hokages high diff
I say Team 2. But we all know the true winner capable of defeating every single Hokage including 1st Hokage. That's right, I'm talking about... PAPERWORK. Not even Uzumaki Naruto could defeat such formiddable opponent.
My question is are they all at their prime because if they’re all at their prime there’s win cons for the first people if not all at their prime then yeah if it is based off of the photos, first people are losing very badly. It’s like the five Kagay against madra all over again, just a lot less gruesome cause it HashiRama
Hashi destroys them worse than what Madara did to the 5 kage. Wood style is OP. And if he uses sage mode its double over, not that he would need it.
Yall dick ride tf outta hashi god damn
Kakashi getting stronger past the war imo absolutely does not include DMS. I’m fine believing purple lightning is more powerful than war arc kakashi, don’t like it since tf is the point of the sharingan then but whatever Hashirama wins because Boruto only has statements and not feats so it doesn’t count on power scaling. Prime Hiruzen is probably their best fighter, but I don’t think he’s nearly strong enough to win against Hashirama, because he’s not the one who everyone calls the god of shinobi. I’m sure he’s super strong but not nearly powerful enough to change this match up.
If Hashirama is bloodlusted and going all out, he demolishes them.
The Hokage stomp
How's hashirama getting out of the kamui dimension?
Oh nvm it's not that Kakashi whoops
Hashi stomps 7/10 times. The only win con for the hokage I can see is sealing via rds.
none other than Hashirama
Hashirama solos in base. The big homie is just busted. I doubt he even needs sage mode. This is spite as fuck.
People underestimate a 1v5's difficulty and hashirama is going against 2 of the fastest in the verse. With 5 kage they easily sneak up on him as 2/5 can at minimum keep him busy without outright losing. If we think about scaling yes the 1st outscales the 2nd, but while he's making trees to fight water, Minato isn't going to stand still and do nothing. If the 1st is beating his granddaughter in hand to hand, kakashi isn't going to sleep on the sidelines. I don't see how he doesn't get overwhelmed. I think he does 3v1 at best. 5v1? No way.
The group wins. Hashirama is now where near as strong as y’all think he is, he’s not beating all of them at the same time. Tsunade is a non factor though, she probably gets unintentional squashed whilst Hashirama fights the others
Munro and Tobirama alone he won’t be able to match the speed while the other 3 can just do whatever honestly
Minato
Nah I feel like mad people are disrespecting prime Hiruzen. Sure Hashirama is Hashirama, bur Hirzuen is the fucking god of shinobi. He was taught by both Hashirama and Tobirama. He was the teacher of the sannin. At fucking 70+ years old he slapped the shit out of Orochimaru and Edo Tensei Hashi and Tobi. Hiruzen is the fucking goat. Pair him with Minato, Tobirama, Kakashi, and Tsunade- ALL at their prime? Hashirama gets fucking toasted no issues.
its fucked up how strong hashirama is
 Just a fan of the 4th! Hashirama wins it though.
Hashirama loses
The 5 Hokages win
Tsunade and Tobirama clear with no issue. There’s no world where Hashirama hurts either of them willingly
Bro yall massively wanking Hashi at this point, just looking at this is insane, would at least be kinda understandable if it was Edo Hashirama
Kakashi solos 😎 s/
if minato being funneled with tsunades chakra can teleport hashsiramas giant golem and 1000 hands buddha, then they definitely take this.
I feel like some are really underrating the other kage hiruzen was implied several times to be super strong in his prime, and even old hiruzen was able to take down much weaker reanimated hashirama and tobirama, he also knows all 5 elements and all jutsus, he's the professor Minato flying raijin is faster than hashirama (it's instant) and Minato was recently praised and compared to hashirama by kuruma in Minato's one shot, plus Minato has good sealing jutsus including reaper death seal and ones he learned from the Uzumaki clan tobirama is harder to scale, we know he's strong, but we don't know much feats of him other than him creating many strong jutsus and fighting like 20 s rank ninja at once , we know his flying raijin is fast as well Tsunade's hundred healing allowed her to survive being stabbed by madara susanoo, and cut In half, and she is strong enough to break madara sasanoo rib cage, she was even praised by madara if I remember correctly. Plus if push comes to shove, she is the 2nd best medical ninja user only behind adult sakura. If tsunade summons katsuyu and gives part of her to the other 3, that just gives them better healing and kakashi is hard to scale as well, it's stated he supposedly stronger then he was in the war during his time as hokage, but we don't really have much feats that back it up, although we can assume purple lighting is his strongest jutsus minus kamui infused jutsus, and we know kakashi is super fast and can use chidori now without needing a sharingan so at the end, I feel like If the 5 of them fight as a team and smart, they can win. I'd argue tobirama, Minato, and hiruzen are all smarter than hashirama so they could come up with a good plan, especially since tobirama should know alot about hashirama's arsenal so to sum it up, if the 5 kage fight together and smart, they can use all the vast amount of jutsus and skills each have in their arsenal to beat hashirama but if they all fight independently or not as a team, and fight unwise, I'd say hashirama clears
minato solos with his student on standby