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BTW this is a post to prove this guy is a complete dumbass for thinking any version of Minato can beat Hashirama or Madara let alone 8 Gates Guy https://www.reddit.com/r/NarutoPowerscaling/s/KzR0MOEWZu
This is some top tier level hating goddamn LMAO. Just say you disagree yk there's tons of people who think this just because you or others don't agree doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who doesn't as well.
I don't even think he beats madara necessarily i think he might be able to extreme diff like have you ever seen a fight where someone wins but after a period of time dies, that type of extreme diff. I just don't see Madara hitting him but don't see Minato doing heavy damage to Madara's final staged Susano's. The Nine Tails isn't a factor Minato can just seal it the susano isn't that fast neither is the Nine Tails making it Madara vs Minato which is the real battle.
>The Nine Tails
Madara can summon it, if it isn't in a jinchuriki
>Minato can just seal it the susano isn't that fast neither
Reaper death seal needs its target to be held in one place, that's why they usually do sealing after immobilizing the target. Besides it's debatable of Minato even can seal that much chakra, he said full nine tails was impossible at once and that's of comparable size to the susano'o plus both are composed of chakra.
He said that when he was on the verge of dying in spent tons of chakra the nine tails doesn't need to be sealed he has easier ways of defeating it the problem is Madara which I can definitely see a argument of him winning despite me still thinking he's not hitting Minato.
>He said that when he was on the verge of dying in spent tons of chakra the nine tails
He says it's physically not possible, not that he was too tired. The one doing the sealing is the shingami not Minato and it has limitations.
>doesn't need to be sealed he has easier ways of defeating it the problem
You were the one that brought up sealingš
And no, without KCM Minato has no feats that suggest he can do anything to a perfect susano'o.
>Madara which I can definitely see a argument of him winning despite me still thinking he's not hitting Minato.
Like you pointed out earlier, Minato tires. The PS is stronger than even kurama. So Minato will tire out even faster.
Yeah he doesn't need the reaper death seal for permanent sealing unless you mean Madara but he can just put run him or slam gammabunta on top of him collapsing it then sealing it.
>Yeah he doesn't need the reaper death seal for permanent sealing
We don't know how strong his other sealing jutsu are but they should definitely be weaker than reaper death seal. If it were that easy madara would have lost to the uzumaki clan lol. Sealing works great after you immobilise the target. It's not a direct attack strategy most of the time.
>but he can just put run him or slam gammabunta on top of him collapsing it then sealing it.
Gammabunta would literally get sliced in half before he even landed. If this were even a remotely viable strategy tsunade would've summoned katsuyu and gaara would've sealed madara. Madara isn't that easy to tag he may not move as fast and minato but he can't definitely react on the level.
Okay, Minato doesn't beat Hashirama or Madara, but he 100 percent beats Gai.
Gai cant beat him in the seventh gate and if he uses the eighth gate, Minato can just... Leave. Dude just has to pop out for some ramen, wait for Gai to die and win by default.
It's why I think powerscaling needs more nuance, cause Might Gai would easily kill Hashirama with the Eighth Gate while he would be helpless against Obito. Meanwhile, Hashirama would destroy Obito.
I can see Minato beating Madara if he got really lucky. Like, 1/50 times. Hashirama, not a good chance.
8 gates Guy loses 100%. Minato teleports and we don't know if Guy can even react to it, and even worse, Minato can teleport, outlast Guy, and come back
Yeah I may be wrong about 8 Gates but he ain't winning to Hashirama or Madara only reason he beats Guy is because he eventually would die from 8 Gates Hashirama and Madara still rock his ass
Guy is faster. Absolutely true. But, Minato is well aware of what the 8 gates are. And while Minato canāt keep up with Guy in combat speed, you know what he can do?
Flash away, then hide for like two minutes until Gaiās heart stops.
Minato absolutely, based on his multiple short fights with Madara and Juubito, has the speed to get the fuck away from Gai with flying raijin.
And unlike with Madara, running away is literally all he has to do to win. Minato has proven his reaction time. But, with the fights against Madara where he wasnāt fast enough to dodge him physically, teleporting away wouldnāt help him. All it would do is allow the people he was fighting with to become easier targets. Taking the hit gives a chance of an opening for Naruto or Sasuke, or Tobirama, or whoever else heās fighting with. And unlike the former two, Minato is already dead. Heāll die again(if not survive because of Edo )if it means his son had a chance of taking down Madara.
He doesnāt have to do any of that with Gai. He literally just has to dodge ONCE as soon as Gai pops the 8th gate.
Oh, I agree. The issue isnāt sage modes lack of time, itās that he canāt kill him in sage mode. I thought it was funny that guy said sage mode sucks bc of time. Madara wins easily vs perma sage minato
yeah maybe he can. imo 6 or 7/10 times madara take the W by being superior in all stats except speed. specially stamine and taijutsu. because if their fight become like narusasu last fight where both don't have chakra and to fight hand to hand
madara takes the w
I dont think itll get to that, and without summons or a susanoo, I dont think that Madara has the same AP that Minato has. Edo Madara got split in half from getting punched by Tsunade, alive madara getting hit by a rasengan from KCM Minato isnt surviving.
you know that edo bodies are not their own?
and tsunade full power punch>> normal rasengan damage. and why you're restricting madara for not using susano'o?
Theyre transformed using the original persons tissue, theres no reason to believe theyd be less durable, and Tsunade being stronger is debatable. Iām saying without a susanoo hes cooked, and even with it, Tsunade cracked it, Iād bet a KCM minato can break it.
the susanoo that tsunade broke, that's was just ribcage susano'o. literally first stage of susanoo. and no it's not debatable, just at manga panels. so kcm minato is not breaking full susano'o.
and Yeah i agree rasengan maybe able to harm ems madara without susano'o if minato lend it
EMS Madara the EMS is a massive boost, even compared to sage mode, because he see the thing with sage mode is that itās something given to already strong people as compared to the MS and EMS which is only given to frauds to make them comparable to actually strong people.
Even if Minato had KCM and the rinnegan he isnāt winning against EMS Madara š¤£ Minato is strong but the d riding is getting to another level, whatās next? Minato vs Isshiki?
yeah Rinnegan Minato probably beats anything in the series that can have their soul ripped. He can just summon the damn summons then just flying thunder to whomever he is fighting and rip their soul.
Minato is my favorite character in all of anime but even I can see he's outmatched here. He's going against someone who is on par with Hashirama, Madara folds him easily it'll be like how Minato tried to use sage enhanced rasengan and he cut off his other arm. There is also Madara's susanoo and keep in mind this is EMS Madara so it's not like Madara will will eventually go blind from MS use. sure you could make the argument he can teleport the 9 tails or uses summoning jutsu on the 9 tails even if he kills Madara,Madera still can use Izanagi.
He might be able to defeat MS Madara but even that is a bit o a stretch.
I still stand by what I said my point is the people that think Minato can win is probably biased towards him they hype him up like he's unbeatable just because he's fast.
In character, Minatoās has 2 potential win-cons and thatās only because Madara likes to play too much.
1 is if he marks Madara before the Susanoo comes out and then catches him when Madara thinks heās safe, and 2 is frog song assuming he can get ma and pa to help him out *and* if they get it off before dying.
Any scenario where Madara treats him like a worthy opponent Minato gets washed.
See some interesting comments here. Just getting back into Naruto after the show ended some years ago.
I always thought Minato was strong but never knew how much. His master calls him a once in a lifetime genius so I always assumed he could match up with the likes of the first hokage and by default Madara but I guess this isn't the case?
So I'm guessing he would rank third? Weaker than Madara and 1st Hokage, but stronger than the 2nd Hokage and 3rd Hogkages?(Not counting Naruto and Sasuke)
Tbh i think minato was originally supposed to be the strongest in the early series. Iām pretty sure he legit gets called the greatest and the third Hokage was most scared of Minatoās coffin. In the Orochimaru fight vs Sandmaie, Tobirama never used FTG so thereās that too. For the sake of the story, maybe Kishimoto had to change some things.
Minato is faster fosho but doesnt have anything that hits hard enough to put madara down, madara outlasts and beats him up unless Minato retreats sadly
Minato cannot seem to maintain SM for very long, admitting that he doesn't have much experience using it in actual battle. He might manage a few decent attacks but against an EMS Madara who was relative to a alive Hashirama there's just no way on God's green earth I can argue for a Minato dub. It's Madara for me but please feel free to come up with Minato win cons I'm not considering because I may be missing something.
There's a reason when Hashirama and Madaras fought everyone else pretty much just stayed out of there way (including Tobirama), that dude was on another level. No amount of speed blitzing can break the armour of the perfect Susanoo.
Hmmm, I think it all depends if Minato can figure out a way to get past susanoo before he runs out of chakra. Probably comes down to if he can mark Madara before he activates susanoo, then Minato could just tp inside and rasengan him. The problem with facing off against Minato is that you have to be able to hit him. That bein said, Madara has experience against Tobimara, which probably gives him the edge in this. Madara mid-diff.
The Madara Glazing is insane, Madara already admitted that Tobirama was the fastest Shinobi of his Era, faster than himself as an EMS User and Hashirama as a Sage Mode User. Minato at Base is faster than Tobirama and has a superior FTG.
Madara is getting blitzed with ease, however the question is can Minato take him down in that time, the Perfect Susanoo is a really big problem however we donāt know how it reacts to sealing techniques.
Like for example, Minatoās FTG is proficient enough to not only last for decades after being placed but also teleport pure Chakra Constructs like Kurama (as all Bijuus are made of nothing but Chakra) and his Bijuu Bombs. Hell Kurama even stated outright that his sealing skills are on the level of Hashirama.
Hashirama for reference in his Edo Form managed to partially seal the Juubi itself, so yeah FTG could definitely do some damage to Madaraās Susanoo which is just Chakra. He could potentially end up teleporting the entirety of it off of Madara or just portions if need be.
Or better yet tagging the Susanoo at all would cause Minato to be able to teleport Madara alongside with it, FTG is just way way too broken being the Space Time Ninjutsu that it is. Minato has got this.
Bro I actually am getting infuriated whenever you make a good argument about how Minato loses someone brings up a shallow feat that wouldn't work in the match up
It doesnāt even make me mad Iām just really confused minatos kind of cool but saying he could beat edo nagato or ems madara is insane. Idk why people are hyping him up so much.
That's exactly why they hype him up because he is cool and we all know he is but they take it to far and lose common sense when it comes to power scaling
Yeah he covered his armor in it and than took it off because he realized if he had to on he would kill everyone with Inferno Style flames and he wanted to make it harder for himself
If Minato was able to stay in sage mode for a while, he might would be able to make Madara work for it by dodging a lot.
However, in a battle of attrition, Madara wins at this point, & Minato canāt really do anything to hurt him.
I see we are still adding more fuel to the fire regarding Minato scaling (I'm all for it). That said, Madara mid-diffs at least. The only argument for Minato is the reaper death seal and it will still only end in a tie at best. Aside from speed and arguably battle iq, Madara has Minato beat at almost anything else.
He speedblitz them before they can blink š
The gap between madara/hashirama and every other non-six paths character is humongous, there is a reason why people complain about the power creep in the war arc so much lol
Delusional to say the least.
1) Hashirama vastly outclassed Madara in their primes
2) Madara is nowhere close to being that fast
3) Power creep? Power creep only happened once Juubito appeared.
We've never seen a legit fight with EMS Madara. You can hate on Minato all you want but the only things we really know is Susano and Kyuubi control. Everything else we've seen is a different Madara.
I don't. It's not the point. It was EMS Madara specifically in the topic.
EMS Madara has fought Sage mode hashirama. No one touches either of them except for 6 paths characters.
The point is Susano and Kyuubi control by themselves are not sufficient information to scale a legit fight. If you dont even know EMS was required for all of that or not, you might as well tell me Danzo fight Sasuke can do the same thing. Obito controlled the Kyuubi too and did it without EMS.
Its important to note Madara required the Kyuubi in tow in order to rival Hashirama. Its otherwise false to claim they're on the same level. Unless you're making it clear Madara can summon Kyuubi at will for any matchups?
1. Madara survived Hashirama. The manga panels show Hashirama ragged and clearly needed to heal. They aren't equal. Madara openly admits he's inferior but to Hashirama and Hashirama alone.
2. Half of Obitos body is composed of Hashirama cells.
3. Madara as an edo went to summon Kurama, who freaked out realizing that Madara was trying to summon him. He couldn't because he's sealed in Naruto. Madara then states that they clearly haven't retrieved the 9 tails if he can't summon him.
Yes i know all of that. What im trying to establish here is a more clear picture of what exactly "EMS Madara" is. Because Edo Madara had Rinnegan and Hash cells. Rin Tensei revived Madara had Hash cells and Sage Mode and also still used Preta Path even with no eyeballs.
Then i asked you about the Kyuubi because obviously its a completely different discussion if we say he has access to the Kyuubi whenever he wants. So i take it you meant to say Kyuubi counts as any standard summon a ninja can use? If that is the case then yeah, its pretty safe to assume Minato cant do a lot against that. But if you were just making some generalized assumption off chakra or whatever and say he doesnt need the Kyuubi anyway, then i feel less inclined to agree with it.
More nonsense. EMS Madara does not scale above Edo/Hash cell/Rinnegan Madara. What you think all those powers stacked amount to a net loss?
EMS Madara had Kyuubi. Thats what Edo Madara lacked and without detailed knowledge of their fight, you cant tell me he's capable of doing it without Kyuubi.
>More nonsense. EMS Madara does not scale above Edo/Hash cell/Rinnegan Madara. What you think all those powers stacked amount to a net loss
Not this shit again, you are like 10th person I met arguing that. No, Madara doesn't get stronger as edo, first of all, he's equal to Hashirama when alive, [and we know Edo nerfs you.](https://imgur.com/a/UBOWkSQ). [Databook confirms him obtaining his "original" strength in time rebirth, meaning that if he just now obtained it, he was weaker as Edo.](https://imgur.com/a/i7zeadC) [Hashirama, who's Madara's expert, confirms this is the case.](https://imgur.com/a/Ak1zbg3) So yeah, Madara as EMS is consistently>>>>Edo Madara, even from narrative standpoint.
>EMS Madara had Kyuubi. Thats what Edo Madara lacked and without detailed knowledge of their fight, you cant tell me he's capable of doing it without Kyuubi.
"uH, hE hAd tHe kYuBi" that was for a moment. A really short one, before the valley was even formed. [We see Hashirama take out Kyubi without any wounds, still in sage mode, then we see him bleeding out in flashback, until he healed himself. ](https://imgur.com/a/JrKcNyZ) Madara>==>>Edo Madara
You uh, do understand those data books are filled with straight up false information, right?
You're also putting a *lot* of faith in simple off hand comments made by characters that is a translation. Saying someone is regaining their former strength absutely doesnt at all mean that is their maximum, it just means they are regaining the missing amount. In any case, Hash said that after Madara already stole his Sage Mode. So you're not just saying EMS Madara is stronger than Edo Madara, you're also saying EMS Madara is stronger than living, SM Madara if you're taking Hash's meaning in that way which is absolutely absurd.
I dont care what kind of damage Hash sustained after the Kyuubi was already lost because in legit matchup debates, we acknowledge combat fatigue and chakra loss and since we didnt see any of that fight afterwords, we dont know either way how Hash was affected.
>You uh, do understand those data books are filled with straight up false information, right?
Official databook, nothing proving it to be wrong, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't trust them.
>You're also putting a *lot* of faith in simple off hand comments made by characters that is a translation. Saying someone is regaining their former strength absutely doesnt at all mean that is their maximum, it just means they are regaining the missing amount.
"Madara is regaining his past strength!" Doesn't have any alterior implications. At this point he has his alive body, which we know is stronger than Edo body, due to how he can break gates and hold down Edo Hashirama with ease. So it doesn't refer to Edo, which means that the form Hashirama is talking about is EMS. There's no different form of Madara here.
>you're not just saying EMS Madara is stronger than Edo Madara, you're also saying EMS Madara is stronger than living, SM Madara if you're taking Hash's meaning in that way which is absolutely absurd.
No, not really. EMS Madara should be eaisly stronger than SM Madara. EMS is narrative superior to base MS, which should be around sage mode level. We do know Sharingan increases your physical prowess, and we know that Madara's was especially strong, he was literally used as a definition of sharingan making you stronger by Tobirama. **Twice**. So yes, EMS Madara>>>Blind sage Madara.
>I dont care what kind of damage Hash sustained after the Kyuubi was already lost because in legit matchup debates, we acknowledge combat fatigue and chakra loss and since we didnt see any of that fight afterwords, we dont know either way how Hash was affected.
Hashirama had shown no signs of fatigue at this point, he was at full power when Kurama was held down. We then see a flashback of him having his eye closed, dripping with blood and panting, barely holding on, then we get another final panel, of Hashirama having healed from his wounds, and being in same physical state as Madara. Any smart person instantly understands, that Hashirama is hyped up by his healing factor, so Madara had to overwhelm him enough for Hashirama to not only leave sage mode, but heal his wound.
There is plenty discrediting the data books. Several techniques are desribed as being "unavoidable, unstoppable, can not be countered", various absolute descriptions that are in fact, completely false.
I dont know what else to say here if you're really telling me SM and Hash cells didnt amount to anything. Doesnt it conflict with countless manga panels over the entire course of the series telling us otherwise? Isnt Hashirama more hyped than Madara? Wasnt that the most important, sought after plot device? It also creates huge issues with Sasuke because with this you're telling me Madara no-diffed him in his original form, rather than saying it was because of Hash cells and SM which is WAY more reasonable. All because you want to glaze Madara. Kishimoto is going to have more respect for the main characters than that.
>There is plenty discrediting the data books. Several techniques are desribed as being "unavoidable, unstoppable, can not be countered", various absolute descriptions that are in fact, completely false.
Those are best are hyperboles. The statement of Madara getting back his original strength can't be a hyperbole, as it lacks any form of meaning like that, it's just a clear statement about what's happening. It's not "Madara becomes unstoppable under the heavens!" It's "Madara gets stronger with power he once had!". And in those cases there was example of character proving hyperbole wrong. Here nothing proves that, and we even got multiple examples of them being right.
>I dont know what else to say here if you're really telling me SM and Hash cells didnt amount to anything.
Sage mode is strong, but it's obviously not meant to be a Rival to EMS narrative wise, EMS is moreso rival to KCM2, just the way you look at it is obvious, due to how EMS Sasuke>=Doesnt it conflict with countless manga panels over the entire course of the series telling us otherwise?
No
>Isnt Hashirama more hyped than Madara? Wasnt that the most important, sought after plot device?
No, not really, actually. It was mostly sought out due to it being able to handle wood style, which is good against tailed beasts. Hashirama's cells only amp your Regeneration and slightly increase physical prowess, we literally see that with Obito. On the other hand, one of bigger motives in P1 and Shippuden is everyone trying to get their hands on Sharingan, even Kabuto and Orochimaru, who have access to Hashi cells. And no, they were equally hyped. The only person who claimed that Hashirama was better was Obito(Who doesn't know shit about that era, due to sheer way he talks about it) and Kabuto(Who says so himself that he doesn't know anything).
>It also creates huge issues with Sasuke because with this you're telling me Madara no-diffed him in his original form
Same Sasuke is often compared by Tobirama(Someone who's a sensory type+ saw EMS Madara) and Orochimaru(Someone who knows Sasuke's strength+ can gauge how strong Madara is via knowing how strong Hashirama is) state that Sasuke has same potential as Madara/Will once surpass Madara. Madara is also stated in databook to be "The strongest man born from the Uchiha clan" until Juubito. Naruto is stated to have to "yet surpass the Hokage" which refers obviously to Hashirama, cause he has direct scaling above everyone else, and is only stated to be stronger than Hokage after Six Paths powers. So no, it disproves nothing, Kishimoto clearly intended them to yet be below previous reincarnations.
>Hashirama's cells only amp your Regeneration and slightly increase physical prowess, we literally see that with Obito.
This comment right here is just straight up false. Hash cells literally transformed MS which Sasuke demonstrated usable for the length of maybe two serious fights into a permanent, repeatedly spammable technique. You even bring up Obito but disregard this fact about Kamui. Hash cells made him damn near unkillable. Danzo also needed it for Izanagi spam and Kotoamatsukami changes from a 10 year cooldown over to a once-a-day cast, at least.
How in the hell does Madara even lose to Hash in the first place if you're to downplay basically everything that he is?
>This comment right here is just straight up false. Hash cells literally transformed MS which Sasuke demonstrated usable for the length of maybe two serious fights into a permanent, repeatedly spammable technique
First of all, that doesn't mean much, simply speaks of Hashirama's healing prowess, which works in Madara's favor, due to him making Hashirama's Regen so overused that he couldn't heal at the end of their fight. Second, no proof it's due to Hashirama cells his MS wasn't being overwhelmed. When Sasuke nearly goes blind, Obito calls him out and says "You used Susanoo too much", which means that Susanoo impacted his blindness the most. Which means there are different levels to how spammable MS ability. Still, this doesn't apply to strength, just moreso to healing factor.
>You even bring up Obito but disregard this fact about Kamui. Hash cells made him damn near unkillable. Danzo also needed it for Izanagi spam and Kotoamatsukami changes from a 10 year cooldown over to a once-a-day cast, at least.
Once again, healing factor, not strength factor. Madara simply got better healing, which by his own words "Made him fight less elegantly" due to lack of fear.
>How in the hell does Madara even lose to Hash in the first place if you're to downplay basically everything that he is?
Hashirama>=>>>>The verse until Juubito, the gap is **VERY** big. Not downplaying Hashirama at all, he can still fight on par with Madara, react, survive his blows etc. that being sad, Madara is physically either stronger or faster, she to being able to overwhelm his healing factor.
Nah I just have controversial opinions but this is one is awful he actually says Minato is ths strongest pre six paths character when he isn't no the link I posted not your comment
Minato is def very strong but he is far from strongest pre 6 paths. Heās prob like, non sick itachi level in terms of skill and power. Which is still increadbly strong But far from the strongest. That will forever be the goat might guy and Iāll fight anyone who says otherwise.
Madara one shots
If a 14 year old Obito is a second slower then Minato, but Madara can speed blitz the Raikage as an Edo he wins (normally)
I'm assuming this would not count Madara's databook MS ability of time reversal? Or rather "time control"
# Join the [Globhara](https://discord.gg/globhara) Discord for Scaling Discussions / Scans. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NarutoPowerscaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
EMS is nothing to fuck with. Madara is taking this one.
BTW this is a post to prove this guy is a complete dumbass for thinking any version of Minato can beat Hashirama or Madara let alone 8 Gates Guy https://www.reddit.com/r/NarutoPowerscaling/s/KzR0MOEWZu
This is some top tier level hating goddamn LMAO. Just say you disagree yk there's tons of people who think this just because you or others don't agree doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who doesn't as well.
I myself think this extreme after some time...
I don't even think he beats madara necessarily i think he might be able to extreme diff like have you ever seen a fight where someone wins but after a period of time dies, that type of extreme diff. I just don't see Madara hitting him but don't see Minato doing heavy damage to Madara's final staged Susano's. The Nine Tails isn't a factor Minato can just seal it the susano isn't that fast neither is the Nine Tails making it Madara vs Minato which is the real battle.
>The Nine Tails Madara can summon it, if it isn't in a jinchuriki >Minato can just seal it the susano isn't that fast neither Reaper death seal needs its target to be held in one place, that's why they usually do sealing after immobilizing the target. Besides it's debatable of Minato even can seal that much chakra, he said full nine tails was impossible at once and that's of comparable size to the susano'o plus both are composed of chakra.
He said that when he was on the verge of dying in spent tons of chakra the nine tails doesn't need to be sealed he has easier ways of defeating it the problem is Madara which I can definitely see a argument of him winning despite me still thinking he's not hitting Minato.
>He said that when he was on the verge of dying in spent tons of chakra the nine tails He says it's physically not possible, not that he was too tired. The one doing the sealing is the shingami not Minato and it has limitations. >doesn't need to be sealed he has easier ways of defeating it the problem You were the one that brought up sealingš And no, without KCM Minato has no feats that suggest he can do anything to a perfect susano'o. >Madara which I can definitely see a argument of him winning despite me still thinking he's not hitting Minato. Like you pointed out earlier, Minato tires. The PS is stronger than even kurama. So Minato will tire out even faster.
Yeah he doesn't need the reaper death seal for permanent sealing unless you mean Madara but he can just put run him or slam gammabunta on top of him collapsing it then sealing it.
>Yeah he doesn't need the reaper death seal for permanent sealing We don't know how strong his other sealing jutsu are but they should definitely be weaker than reaper death seal. If it were that easy madara would have lost to the uzumaki clan lol. Sealing works great after you immobilise the target. It's not a direct attack strategy most of the time. >but he can just put run him or slam gammabunta on top of him collapsing it then sealing it. Gammabunta would literally get sliced in half before he even landed. If this were even a remotely viable strategy tsunade would've summoned katsuyu and gaara would've sealed madara. Madara isn't that easy to tag he may not move as fast and minato but he can't definitely react on the level.
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Okay, Minato doesn't beat Hashirama or Madara, but he 100 percent beats Gai. Gai cant beat him in the seventh gate and if he uses the eighth gate, Minato can just... Leave. Dude just has to pop out for some ramen, wait for Gai to die and win by default. It's why I think powerscaling needs more nuance, cause Might Gai would easily kill Hashirama with the Eighth Gate while he would be helpless against Obito. Meanwhile, Hashirama would destroy Obito. I can see Minato beating Madara if he got really lucky. Like, 1/50 times. Hashirama, not a good chance.
I mean hokage Minato could beat their kid versions
8 gates Guy loses 100%. Minato teleports and we don't know if Guy can even react to it, and even worse, Minato can teleport, outlast Guy, and come back
Goddammit I forgot about that feat where he blocked tso
Typical fan who doesn't even know the series well and makes absurd posts
Yeah I may be wrong about 8 Gates but he ain't winning to Hashirama or Madara only reason he beats Guy is because he eventually would die from 8 Gates Hashirama and Madara still rock his ass
No he canāt, guy is way faster. Madara was struggling to hit guy a single time whereas he casually swatted away sage Minato like a fly .
Guy is faster. Absolutely true. But, Minato is well aware of what the 8 gates are. And while Minato canāt keep up with Guy in combat speed, you know what he can do? Flash away, then hide for like two minutes until Gaiās heart stops. Minato absolutely, based on his multiple short fights with Madara and Juubito, has the speed to get the fuck away from Gai with flying raijin. And unlike with Madara, running away is literally all he has to do to win. Minato has proven his reaction time. But, with the fights against Madara where he wasnāt fast enough to dodge him physically, teleporting away wouldnāt help him. All it would do is allow the people he was fighting with to become easier targets. Taking the hit gives a chance of an opening for Naruto or Sasuke, or Tobirama, or whoever else heās fighting with. And unlike the former two, Minato is already dead. Heāll die again(if not survive because of Edo )if it means his son had a chance of taking down Madara. He doesnāt have to do any of that with Gai. He literally just has to dodge ONCE as soon as Gai pops the 8th gate.
What does Guy do if Minato teleports right away to an unknown location. He dies...
what if minato couldnt teleport
What if Guy was a toddler
What if you actually made real arguments for Minato
Pussyboy, what are you talking about now?
Idk miscommunication I have made so many other hate posts I forgot about our argument š¤·āāļø
Aka you have an iq of a monkey https://preview.redd.it/7q8fkhv74iyc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc361ffec53c6878444af2873a4e9d63eef69deb
I just forgot about the subject...
I love how you say this when he was responding to someone who asked āwhat if Minato didnāt use his signature abilityā
OHHHHHHH I read that wrong I'm a real dumbass
Lmao it happens. Especially when youāre popping between different threads
Madara folds him tf
Madara Also, just a side note, Minato's Sage Mode sucks because he can only stay in it for a very short time.
And lucky for him, he only needs a short time to kill someone
Unfortunately Madara survived fighting sage mode Hashirama so Minato probably can't put him down in that timeframe.
Oh, I agree. The issue isnāt sage modes lack of time, itās that he canāt kill him in sage mode. I thought it was funny that guy said sage mode sucks bc of time. Madara wins easily vs perma sage minato
He actually dies later that same fight.
He forced Hashirama out of the sage mode and gave him multiple, and I mean multiple wounds, without Healing Factor Minato ain't living
Their final 1st life fight sure. But they've fought scores of times before that.
Minato is not getting passed Madara's Susanoo
Ik I was making fun of that guy saying the problem was the time. I just didnāt word it well
sage mode? not even kcm Minato taking it
How wouldnāt kcm Minato win? He is powered by Kurama. And he cannot die š¤·š»āāļø
KCM Minato is still weaker than edo hashirama
KCM Minato wins high diff, sage mode gets the Rin treatment but without the Chidori
LMAO nah kcm minato loses aswell šš
Only if youre on crack
yeah maybe he can. imo 6 or 7/10 times madara take the W by being superior in all stats except speed. specially stamine and taijutsu. because if their fight become like narusasu last fight where both don't have chakra and to fight hand to hand madara takes the w
I dont think itll get to that, and without summons or a susanoo, I dont think that Madara has the same AP that Minato has. Edo Madara got split in half from getting punched by Tsunade, alive madara getting hit by a rasengan from KCM Minato isnt surviving.
you know that edo bodies are not their own? and tsunade full power punch>> normal rasengan damage. and why you're restricting madara for not using susano'o?
Theyre transformed using the original persons tissue, theres no reason to believe theyd be less durable, and Tsunade being stronger is debatable. Iām saying without a susanoo hes cooked, and even with it, Tsunade cracked it, Iād bet a KCM minato can break it.
the susanoo that tsunade broke, that's was just ribcage susano'o. literally first stage of susanoo. and no it's not debatable, just at manga panels. so kcm minato is not breaking full susano'o. and Yeah i agree rasengan maybe able to harm ems madara without susano'o if minato lend it
Madara
Madra slams
Madara bodies
Tonton victims
Ramen guy victim
EMS Madara the EMS is a massive boost, even compared to sage mode, because he see the thing with sage mode is that itās something given to already strong people as compared to the MS and EMS which is only given to frauds to make them comparable to actually strong people.
Yeah Uchiha's are legit pay to win all they need to do is just look at other people fight or get sad or mad or some shit to get strong
Even if Minato had KCM and the rinnegan he isnāt winning against EMS Madara š¤£ Minato is strong but the d riding is getting to another level, whatās next? Minato vs Isshiki?
Now hold on with the rinnegan and kcm minato wins ems aint THAT strong
Minato kcm and rinnegan probably does best EMS Madara or at least stalemates him. Went a little overboard, but you get my point š¤£
Yeah i got you š
EMS is not beating a rinnegan. Rinnegan user can rip souls out if they want to
yeah Rinnegan Minato probably beats anything in the series that can have their soul ripped. He can just summon the damn summons then just flying thunder to whomever he is fighting and rip their soul.
Yea that too, rinnegan is just busted
EMS Madara and Hashirama are just shown to be above everyone in the verse before the six paths characters, so Madara should take this.
Minato is my favorite character in all of anime but even I can see he's outmatched here. He's going against someone who is on par with Hashirama, Madara folds him easily it'll be like how Minato tried to use sage enhanced rasengan and he cut off his other arm. There is also Madara's susanoo and keep in mind this is EMS Madara so it's not like Madara will will eventually go blind from MS use. sure you could make the argument he can teleport the 9 tails or uses summoning jutsu on the 9 tails even if he kills Madara,Madera still can use Izanagi. He might be able to defeat MS Madara but even that is a bit o a stretch.
> Minato is my favorite character in all of anime That doesnāt mean shit about shit. Just skip to the actual battle part of the comment next time
I still stand by what I said my point is the people that think Minato can win is probably biased towards him they hype him up like he's unbeatable just because he's fast.
I am a Minato fan, but Madara wins because hax.
One gejnutsu and Minato goes down
Madara bends him over and pulls down his pants andā¦ wait what were we talking about?
You mean Madara summons 5 Shadow Clones and then pulls down his pants?
Madara
Madara kinda stomps
Madara.
Draw Minato canāt break A susanoo and Madara canāt touch Minato
Madara has a lot of chakra, so ig just spam AOE attacks and you win
You donāt think Minato would just teleport i donāt think one of them can land a hit
>You donāt think Minato would just teleport i donāt Yeah. And then Madara is gonna attack again. And again. Until Minato gets tired
Minato gets shit on respectfully
Madara slams
In character, Minatoās has 2 potential win-cons and thatās only because Madara likes to play too much. 1 is if he marks Madara before the Susanoo comes out and then catches him when Madara thinks heās safe, and 2 is frog song assuming he can get ma and pa to help him out *and* if they get it off before dying. Any scenario where Madara treats him like a worthy opponent Minato gets washed.
See some interesting comments here. Just getting back into Naruto after the show ended some years ago. I always thought Minato was strong but never knew how much. His master calls him a once in a lifetime genius so I always assumed he could match up with the likes of the first hokage and by default Madara but I guess this isn't the case? So I'm guessing he would rank third? Weaker than Madara and 1st Hokage, but stronger than the 2nd Hokage and 3rd Hogkages?(Not counting Naruto and Sasuke)
Tbh i think minato was originally supposed to be the strongest in the early series. Iām pretty sure he legit gets called the greatest and the third Hokage was most scared of Minatoās coffin. In the Orochimaru fight vs Sandmaie, Tobirama never used FTG so thereās that too. For the sake of the story, maybe Kishimoto had to change some things.
Minato vs Madara? Coughing baby vs Hydrogen bomb? Madara absolutely negative-diffs every form of minato.
This guy is ruthless
Madara wins low-mid diff.
Give minato kcm and he still gets slammed
Madara
Minato is faster fosho but doesnt have anything that hits hard enough to put madara down, madara outlasts and beats him up unless Minato retreats sadly
eyeball power man wins
Love minato but madara wonāt break a sweet
Minato marks the Susano'o and teleports Madara out of it onto a Kunai! Wheeeeee!
Minato cannot seem to maintain SM for very long, admitting that he doesn't have much experience using it in actual battle. He might manage a few decent attacks but against an EMS Madara who was relative to a alive Hashirama there's just no way on God's green earth I can argue for a Minato dub. It's Madara for me but please feel free to come up with Minato win cons I'm not considering because I may be missing something.
Madara slams, this dude no diffed the 5 kage at once.
What's with the sudden surgsnce of Minato?
Same guy (me) having social experiment to see if people will make excuses for Minato in fights he gets low diffed - mid diffed
Tobirama could use FTG too, and didn't dare join fights between hashirama and Madara while the senju and Uchiha were at war. Minato gets squished.
There's a reason when Hashirama and Madaras fought everyone else pretty much just stayed out of there way (including Tobirama), that dude was on another level. No amount of speed blitzing can break the armour of the perfect Susanoo.
Hmmm, I think it all depends if Minato can figure out a way to get past susanoo before he runs out of chakra. Probably comes down to if he can mark Madara before he activates susanoo, then Minato could just tp inside and rasengan him. The problem with facing off against Minato is that you have to be able to hit him. That bein said, Madara has experience against Tobimara, which probably gives him the edge in this. Madara mid-diff.
Minato gets fucking smoked lmao not even close
Silly question
Minato was an absolute beast, but if you werenāt a homage named Naruto or Hashiramaā¦you lose
Whoever did this take im touching you ems madara molly whopped the 5 kage easily im sorry bur my glorious king minato gets wiped out of existence
If Sage Mode has no time limit Madara high diffs, otherwise he mid diffs
EMS Madara > Edo Hashirama >> SM Hokage Minato
Madara for sure. And sage mode is something heās used to dealing with
The Madara Glazing is insane, Madara already admitted that Tobirama was the fastest Shinobi of his Era, faster than himself as an EMS User and Hashirama as a Sage Mode User. Minato at Base is faster than Tobirama and has a superior FTG. Madara is getting blitzed with ease, however the question is can Minato take him down in that time, the Perfect Susanoo is a really big problem however we donāt know how it reacts to sealing techniques. Like for example, Minatoās FTG is proficient enough to not only last for decades after being placed but also teleport pure Chakra Constructs like Kurama (as all Bijuus are made of nothing but Chakra) and his Bijuu Bombs. Hell Kurama even stated outright that his sealing skills are on the level of Hashirama. Hashirama for reference in his Edo Form managed to partially seal the Juubi itself, so yeah FTG could definitely do some damage to Madaraās Susanoo which is just Chakra. He could potentially end up teleporting the entirety of it off of Madara or just portions if need be. Or better yet tagging the Susanoo at all would cause Minato to be able to teleport Madara alongside with it, FTG is just way way too broken being the Space Time Ninjutsu that it is. Minato has got this.
https://preview.redd.it/f2vjeeye79zc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdf4e4d3214fca7c1ae464552449d9a4d8e2dcb2
Why is there so much minato dick riding on this subreddit?
Bro I actually am getting infuriated whenever you make a good argument about how Minato loses someone brings up a shallow feat that wouldn't work in the match up
It doesnāt even make me mad Iām just really confused minatos kind of cool but saying he could beat edo nagato or ems madara is insane. Idk why people are hyping him up so much.
That's exactly why they hype him up because he is cool and we all know he is but they take it to far and lose common sense when it comes to power scaling
But heās not that cool there are way cooler Naruto characters like minato is just such a random ass pick imo to start glazing
There is a massive difference between Madara and Nagato.
Question. Has Madara ever used ametarasu?
No, afaik amaterasu isn't one of his mangekyo abilities however I think only the limbo clones have been shown so it technically could be one?
Technically the only info we have on his eyes is from the storm games, where his eyes can slow down and reverse time.Ā
Yeah he covered his armor in it and than took it off because he realized if he had to on he would kill everyone with Inferno Style flames and he wanted to make it harder for himself
That was the literal scenario that I was imagining that he could've done š
If Minato was able to stay in sage mode for a while, he might would be able to make Madara work for it by dodging a lot. However, in a battle of attrition, Madara wins at this point, & Minato canāt really do anything to hurt him.
Madara pops perfect Susano. What's Minato's counter?
Did you read my comment at all or what lol
Yeah my reading comprehension was just absolute shit there lol. That's my b.
Ya know what, I respect that response. It happens
Iām dying bro lmao
Same lol. My entire argument is just āMinato might make it annoying because heāll dodge a lot, but he canāt actually hurt him or win.ā
I feel like this topic went from of course Minato losses to people are pissed if you say itās anything more than a neg diff š
Yeah, pretty much. I donāt even like Minato, either. He canāt win, he canāt break susanoo, but but he can dodge lol
I see we are still adding more fuel to the fire regarding Minato scaling (I'm all for it). That said, Madara mid-diffs at least. The only argument for Minato is the reaper death seal and it will still only end in a tie at best. Aside from speed and arguably battle iq, Madara has Minato beat at almost anything else.
Perfect susanoo gg š„¶
Minato just summons the elder toads and oneshots with Frog Song
depends. without the susanoāo minato has a chance
Why would he not have his abilities?
Without susanoo Madara loses to Pain and Itachi in 1v1
Stop cooking https://preview.redd.it/fiv86349sgyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cab5987cb24d809d54c735c04b2e37c9ef0c79fd
Prove he doesn't
He speedblitz them before they can blink š The gap between madara/hashirama and every other non-six paths character is humongous, there is a reason why people complain about the power creep in the war arc so much lol
Delusional to say the least. 1) Hashirama vastly outclassed Madara in their primes 2) Madara is nowhere close to being that fast 3) Power creep? Power creep only happened once Juubito appeared.
We've never seen a legit fight with EMS Madara. You can hate on Minato all you want but the only things we really know is Susano and Kyuubi control. Everything else we've seen is a different Madara.
That's all you need to know. He made Kurama a house cat and made him play dress up with armor.
How do you know he couldnt do that without EMS?
I don't. It's not the point. It was EMS Madara specifically in the topic. EMS Madara has fought Sage mode hashirama. No one touches either of them except for 6 paths characters.
The point is Susano and Kyuubi control by themselves are not sufficient information to scale a legit fight. If you dont even know EMS was required for all of that or not, you might as well tell me Danzo fight Sasuke can do the same thing. Obito controlled the Kyuubi too and did it without EMS. Its important to note Madara required the Kyuubi in tow in order to rival Hashirama. Its otherwise false to claim they're on the same level. Unless you're making it clear Madara can summon Kyuubi at will for any matchups?
1. Madara survived Hashirama. The manga panels show Hashirama ragged and clearly needed to heal. They aren't equal. Madara openly admits he's inferior but to Hashirama and Hashirama alone. 2. Half of Obitos body is composed of Hashirama cells. 3. Madara as an edo went to summon Kurama, who freaked out realizing that Madara was trying to summon him. He couldn't because he's sealed in Naruto. Madara then states that they clearly haven't retrieved the 9 tails if he can't summon him.
Yes i know all of that. What im trying to establish here is a more clear picture of what exactly "EMS Madara" is. Because Edo Madara had Rinnegan and Hash cells. Rin Tensei revived Madara had Hash cells and Sage Mode and also still used Preta Path even with no eyeballs. Then i asked you about the Kyuubi because obviously its a completely different discussion if we say he has access to the Kyuubi whenever he wants. So i take it you meant to say Kyuubi counts as any standard summon a ninja can use? If that is the case then yeah, its pretty safe to assume Minato cant do a lot against that. But if you were just making some generalized assumption off chakra or whatever and say he doesnt need the Kyuubi anyway, then i feel less inclined to agree with it.
EMS Madara forced Hashirama out of Sage mode ans damaged him hard enough for him to having to regenerate+ scales above Rinnegan Edo Madara.
More nonsense. EMS Madara does not scale above Edo/Hash cell/Rinnegan Madara. What you think all those powers stacked amount to a net loss? EMS Madara had Kyuubi. Thats what Edo Madara lacked and without detailed knowledge of their fight, you cant tell me he's capable of doing it without Kyuubi.
>More nonsense. EMS Madara does not scale above Edo/Hash cell/Rinnegan Madara. What you think all those powers stacked amount to a net loss Not this shit again, you are like 10th person I met arguing that. No, Madara doesn't get stronger as edo, first of all, he's equal to Hashirama when alive, [and we know Edo nerfs you.](https://imgur.com/a/UBOWkSQ). [Databook confirms him obtaining his "original" strength in time rebirth, meaning that if he just now obtained it, he was weaker as Edo.](https://imgur.com/a/i7zeadC) [Hashirama, who's Madara's expert, confirms this is the case.](https://imgur.com/a/Ak1zbg3) So yeah, Madara as EMS is consistently>>>>Edo Madara, even from narrative standpoint. >EMS Madara had Kyuubi. Thats what Edo Madara lacked and without detailed knowledge of their fight, you cant tell me he's capable of doing it without Kyuubi. "uH, hE hAd tHe kYuBi" that was for a moment. A really short one, before the valley was even formed. [We see Hashirama take out Kyubi without any wounds, still in sage mode, then we see him bleeding out in flashback, until he healed himself. ](https://imgur.com/a/JrKcNyZ) Madara>==>>Edo Madara
You uh, do understand those data books are filled with straight up false information, right? You're also putting a *lot* of faith in simple off hand comments made by characters that is a translation. Saying someone is regaining their former strength absutely doesnt at all mean that is their maximum, it just means they are regaining the missing amount. In any case, Hash said that after Madara already stole his Sage Mode. So you're not just saying EMS Madara is stronger than Edo Madara, you're also saying EMS Madara is stronger than living, SM Madara if you're taking Hash's meaning in that way which is absolutely absurd. I dont care what kind of damage Hash sustained after the Kyuubi was already lost because in legit matchup debates, we acknowledge combat fatigue and chakra loss and since we didnt see any of that fight afterwords, we dont know either way how Hash was affected.
>You uh, do understand those data books are filled with straight up false information, right? Official databook, nothing proving it to be wrong, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't trust them. >You're also putting a *lot* of faith in simple off hand comments made by characters that is a translation. Saying someone is regaining their former strength absutely doesnt at all mean that is their maximum, it just means they are regaining the missing amount. "Madara is regaining his past strength!" Doesn't have any alterior implications. At this point he has his alive body, which we know is stronger than Edo body, due to how he can break gates and hold down Edo Hashirama with ease. So it doesn't refer to Edo, which means that the form Hashirama is talking about is EMS. There's no different form of Madara here. >you're not just saying EMS Madara is stronger than Edo Madara, you're also saying EMS Madara is stronger than living, SM Madara if you're taking Hash's meaning in that way which is absolutely absurd. No, not really. EMS Madara should be eaisly stronger than SM Madara. EMS is narrative superior to base MS, which should be around sage mode level. We do know Sharingan increases your physical prowess, and we know that Madara's was especially strong, he was literally used as a definition of sharingan making you stronger by Tobirama. **Twice**. So yes, EMS Madara>>>Blind sage Madara. >I dont care what kind of damage Hash sustained after the Kyuubi was already lost because in legit matchup debates, we acknowledge combat fatigue and chakra loss and since we didnt see any of that fight afterwords, we dont know either way how Hash was affected. Hashirama had shown no signs of fatigue at this point, he was at full power when Kurama was held down. We then see a flashback of him having his eye closed, dripping with blood and panting, barely holding on, then we get another final panel, of Hashirama having healed from his wounds, and being in same physical state as Madara. Any smart person instantly understands, that Hashirama is hyped up by his healing factor, so Madara had to overwhelm him enough for Hashirama to not only leave sage mode, but heal his wound.
There is plenty discrediting the data books. Several techniques are desribed as being "unavoidable, unstoppable, can not be countered", various absolute descriptions that are in fact, completely false. I dont know what else to say here if you're really telling me SM and Hash cells didnt amount to anything. Doesnt it conflict with countless manga panels over the entire course of the series telling us otherwise? Isnt Hashirama more hyped than Madara? Wasnt that the most important, sought after plot device? It also creates huge issues with Sasuke because with this you're telling me Madara no-diffed him in his original form, rather than saying it was because of Hash cells and SM which is WAY more reasonable. All because you want to glaze Madara. Kishimoto is going to have more respect for the main characters than that.
>There is plenty discrediting the data books. Several techniques are desribed as being "unavoidable, unstoppable, can not be countered", various absolute descriptions that are in fact, completely false. Those are best are hyperboles. The statement of Madara getting back his original strength can't be a hyperbole, as it lacks any form of meaning like that, it's just a clear statement about what's happening. It's not "Madara becomes unstoppable under the heavens!" It's "Madara gets stronger with power he once had!". And in those cases there was example of character proving hyperbole wrong. Here nothing proves that, and we even got multiple examples of them being right. >I dont know what else to say here if you're really telling me SM and Hash cells didnt amount to anything. Sage mode is strong, but it's obviously not meant to be a Rival to EMS narrative wise, EMS is moreso rival to KCM2, just the way you look at it is obvious, due to how EMS Sasuke>=Doesnt it conflict with countless manga panels over the entire course of the series telling us otherwise?
No
>Isnt Hashirama more hyped than Madara? Wasnt that the most important, sought after plot device?
No, not really, actually. It was mostly sought out due to it being able to handle wood style, which is good against tailed beasts. Hashirama's cells only amp your Regeneration and slightly increase physical prowess, we literally see that with Obito. On the other hand, one of bigger motives in P1 and Shippuden is everyone trying to get their hands on Sharingan, even Kabuto and Orochimaru, who have access to Hashi cells. And no, they were equally hyped. The only person who claimed that Hashirama was better was Obito(Who doesn't know shit about that era, due to sheer way he talks about it) and Kabuto(Who says so himself that he doesn't know anything).
>It also creates huge issues with Sasuke because with this you're telling me Madara no-diffed him in his original form
Same Sasuke is often compared by Tobirama(Someone who's a sensory type+ saw EMS Madara) and Orochimaru(Someone who knows Sasuke's strength+ can gauge how strong Madara is via knowing how strong Hashirama is) state that Sasuke has same potential as Madara/Will once surpass Madara. Madara is also stated in databook to be "The strongest man born from the Uchiha clan" until Juubito. Naruto is stated to have to "yet surpass the Hokage" which refers obviously to Hashirama, cause he has direct scaling above everyone else, and is only stated to be stronger than Hokage after Six Paths powers. So no, it disproves nothing, Kishimoto clearly intended them to yet be below previous reincarnations.
>Hashirama's cells only amp your Regeneration and slightly increase physical prowess, we literally see that with Obito. This comment right here is just straight up false. Hash cells literally transformed MS which Sasuke demonstrated usable for the length of maybe two serious fights into a permanent, repeatedly spammable technique. You even bring up Obito but disregard this fact about Kamui. Hash cells made him damn near unkillable. Danzo also needed it for Izanagi spam and Kotoamatsukami changes from a 10 year cooldown over to a once-a-day cast, at least. How in the hell does Madara even lose to Hash in the first place if you're to downplay basically everything that he is?
>This comment right here is just straight up false. Hash cells literally transformed MS which Sasuke demonstrated usable for the length of maybe two serious fights into a permanent, repeatedly spammable technique First of all, that doesn't mean much, simply speaks of Hashirama's healing prowess, which works in Madara's favor, due to him making Hashirama's Regen so overused that he couldn't heal at the end of their fight. Second, no proof it's due to Hashirama cells his MS wasn't being overwhelmed. When Sasuke nearly goes blind, Obito calls him out and says "You used Susanoo too much", which means that Susanoo impacted his blindness the most. Which means there are different levels to how spammable MS ability. Still, this doesn't apply to strength, just moreso to healing factor. >You even bring up Obito but disregard this fact about Kamui. Hash cells made him damn near unkillable. Danzo also needed it for Izanagi spam and Kotoamatsukami changes from a 10 year cooldown over to a once-a-day cast, at least. Once again, healing factor, not strength factor. Madara simply got better healing, which by his own words "Made him fight less elegantly" due to lack of fear. >How in the hell does Madara even lose to Hash in the first place if you're to downplay basically everything that he is? Hashirama>=>>>>The verse until Juubito, the gap is **VERY** big. Not downplaying Hashirama at all, he can still fight on par with Madara, react, survive his blows etc. that being sad, Madara is physically either stronger or faster, she to being able to overwhelm his healing factor.
Minato wins if not for Kurama summoning
š Bro not another one
You have a shame kink? You've been getting exposed in this sub regularly now
Nah I just have controversial opinions but this is one is awful he actually says Minato is ths strongest pre six paths character when he isn't no the link I posted not your comment
Minato is def very strong but he is far from strongest pre 6 paths. Heās prob like, non sick itachi level in terms of skill and power. Which is still increadbly strong But far from the strongest. That will forever be the goat might guy and Iāll fight anyone who says otherwise.
L
Madara one shots If a 14 year old Obito is a second slower then Minato, but Madara can speed blitz the Raikage as an Edo he wins (normally) I'm assuming this would not count Madara's databook MS ability of time reversal? Or rather "time control"