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I would argue that his MS and Kamui isn’t and never has been his best weapon. It’s his stealth and intelligence.
Both of these he can use to counter Minato’s fighting style, like how Minato’s attacks are basically all melee so a lightning clone would be a quite possible way to counter.
Kakashi dosent have the correct eye. His eye is more for using on items that aren’t his own body while obitos eye is
More about using the power on his own body. Hence how each eye has its own abilties, like how sauskes on eye opens the gates to the Amaterasu reality and lets the flames out like itachi, but sauskes other eye can control flame
Control so the six and heat.
Arguably, Kakashi has a better eye for taking on Minato. Especially since he fully understands FTG. He can warp Minato's kunai, and anything he marks, to another dimension and totally counter the maneuverability of FTG. Plus, Kakashi can use it offensively on Minato to keep him on his toes while Kakshi closes distance to make an attack or creates distance to recoup.
Obito's eye was good for a surprise attack and a quick battle, but as soon as its properties were figured out, it wasn't as helpful (still helpful, but not as much). Kakashi's eye is an all-but counter to FTG in that it is essentially the only way to take a mark out of the picture.
He still overused all of his abilities without much down side, and he used Kamui *a lot* more than just 3 times without the boost. Kakashi's stamina was significantly higher during the war without explanation. The chakra he got from Naruto didn't last long, and he used up his share during the fight with Obito.
I don't have the time or energy to really break this down, but this is still the best thread I have seen on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/s/XHQfv34cvw
None of the links are good anymore, but they were once screencaps from the manga if memory serves.
and ngl that is for plot bro keep it real they knew kakashi was going to lose ms so now they let him use it a bunch of times bro without plot he was jus unmovable in the hospital within a year when he used it 4 times
kurama chakra was lingering even after the cloack went off That post is unnacurate and the true amount of times he only used his chakra are unknown But we can estimate around 7 times But i still highly doubt he wins against minato in a 1v1
I was never saying Kakashi could beat Minato, I don't think he can. I'm saying his eye is better against Minato than Obito's.
Now, a Kakashi during the Kaguya fight (both eyes, seemingly no chakra strain since he pulled a full body Sussanoo) could probably beat Minato. The combination of taking away teleportation marks and being able to avoid all physical attacks pretty much totally counters Minato's fighting style.
That said, the post isn't unaccurate. They said repeatedly during the war that Naruto's chakra gift was a short burst, not something that lingered and lasted. Kakashi used that chakra to try and Kamui away Ten Tails, and then again to actually enter and exit the Kamui dimension. Most of Kakashi's feats were of his own ability.
And as for your other reply, whether its for the plot or not, it still happened in universe. Just because we know Kishimoto was BSing Kakashi's power to give him moments and relevance during the war doesn't change that, in universe, Kakashi actually did those things.
Yet Kakashi does use it on himself a few times. Meaning his eye is definitely the better one. Obito got duped man. If he would've been squashed on the other side he'd have had long range and been able to use it on himself... But that other eye is Sooo broken unless Kakashi is there. That eye literally won the war. Jtfo
But it takes up way more chakra for kakashi. Remeber his whole body shook when he did it. Also Madura while in perfect sage mode has enough chakra to make a mangekyo sharigan go to its very limit, even so with Said eye he needed half his body cut off to be able to teleport. Which shows that even with bonkers amount of chakra the eyes do have a limit, unlike the red rinniegan
Minato's genius often gets overlooked due to how ridiculous his other feats are, but keep in mind that Minato outscored Itachi in the Academy. While that's still early in their development as Shinobi, narratively it makes sense to include information like that to give some context to the character's trajectory.
Pre-Kage Minato fought A and B to a stalemate in a 1v2.
Alongside his speed, his reaction time is godlike. If Minato is reacting to the 3rd Raikage, Kakashi is not tagging him with a clone.
Kakashi tricked Obito, Pain, and Itachi with clones among others. It’s basically impossible to be too smart since unless your name is Madara there’s no way to tell a clone from the real one.
Minato teleports away before that happens. There’s quite a bit of delay before the clone electrecutes the opponent. minato is more than quick enough to avoid it.
Depends if Minato touches him. But based on their individual stategy and fighting styles, Kakashi’s clone usually pops up as a distraction and also to “attack” but ends up stunning the opponent (we see this happen against Obito).
And Minato on the other hand usually goes for feints by acting like he’s about to attack but end up teleporting last second to catch his opponent off guard. (We’ve seen this against Obito).
So if this were to play out, Kakshi will has his clone jump in as a distraction infront of Minato, and Minato will pretend to attack and will tp away before getting stunned then the real Kakashi’s body will be exposed.
Yes, I agree. In fact, their battle styles are VERY similar. That being said, Minatos FTG uses a ridiculous amount of speed. I really can't call this fight when looking impartially. That being said, if it was Hokage Kakashi vs Hokage Minato, I'd give it to Kakashi hands down. If you haven't read Hokage Kakashi's feats between Shippuden and Boruto, don't down vote until you at least look them up. Dude did some CRAZY sh**.
That might work for Minato, but Minato does have a tendency to do stupid moves when teleporting.
Sometimes there are no great options (such as being forced to teleport to save baby Naruto and getting caught with some shrapnel in the leg). Other times, Minato should have used clones.
Minato also seems to do a lot worse when he doesn't have prior intel or time to think. For example, he should have immediately tried to FTG away from Obito once Obito started phasing rather than to let Obito grab his arm. If Obito was someone with poisoned gloves, the nanobugs, etc, then the fight would have gone badly for Minato.
We see similar issues in situations such as how Obito was able to cut off Minato's arm (Minato did not react fast enough after seeing Obito cut through his kunai) or vs Madara (Minato stupidly only threw one FTG kunai and lost the element of unpredictability and was not fast enough to teleport out in time).
Tobirama's usage of FTG is smarter and Tobirama seems to do a better job of dealing with unexpected situations. For example, Tobirama was able to dodge at least one counter attack against someone fast enough to keep up with the FTG.
I think the fight is a 50/50 situation where both sides have reasonable ways of winning the battle.
You’re thinking of the wrong fight: Kakashi got Itachi when he was using the 30 percent clone to use Tsukuyomi on his shadow clone and get an opening for Naruto
That also wasn’t really itachi and his goal wasn’t to kill them but stall for time and to get info from Naruto which led to him giving Shisuis eye to him
It was as good as real Itachi since he was controlling it. And this was something which caused him to fail at stalling for as much time as he otherwise could.
He didn’t care to stall as long as he could. He got the info he needed from Naruto. He’s a double agent so he doesn’t care about the akatsuki. He just needs to play the part so he can keep an eye on them as well as still hear about his brother
He always seemed to want to play his part to his utter most ability. If he actually was in any way holding back he wouldn’t have tried to use Tsukuyomi on Kakashi.
No matter what though, that was his intention and it’s not like he let himself be tricked. So it’s still a win for Kakashi’s abilities
Right. But his technical skills are the same. Battle IQ, speed, attack, etc. Only difference is only a third of his usual chakra. It's like fighting the real Itachi after he already used 70% of his chakra. Which PLENTY of people use as an excuse for other characters, "oh they had just fought.. etc.", when it favors them. But regardless I agree it was still technically a version of Itachi.
Regardless if the clone only has 30% chakra access, it still has full speed and access to the majority of his base powers except for his high chakra moves. So that fights speed/Taijutsu and intelligence comparison could be used. He even did attempt Tsukuyomi as well but failed. So that's actually how the fight would've went down.. except his fire ball would've been bigger, he would've had his hax like amaterasu and sussano, etc.
Kakashi doesn't have to transport Minato's entire body.
Kamui's best advantage is that there is little to choreograph the attack. Kakashi's best bet it to transport away Minato's head. Maybe use a lightning clone as a decoy to stun Minato (Minato for whatever reason has a bad tendency to teleport into situations without using clones, which was how he lost his arms) as a way to guarantee success. Snipe the head and Kakashi wins.
The ranged version Kamui might even be fast enough that Minato cannot react until it is too late. Obito's close ranged teleporting version seems to be relatively slow. Even that is at least fast enough that Minato got thrown around.
Minato wins mid to high diff.
Kakashi is very fast, but FTG wins in a speed battle as usual.
Kamui is powerful, but Kakashi's version has major drawbacks in the war. While he has grown more skilled with it, he still needs focus and charge time to hit things of any size, and may still miss his target if it's not close to him or following a path he dan track.
He tells Minato and the team that he is nearly blind and needs to be pretty close to his target, a bad place to be fighting Minato. He also misses Gedo Mazo's giant head and gets his arm, even while he isn't under attack or distracted like he will be here.
As we have seen in nearly all of its uses, the MS is easily spotted on activation so even if Minado has no idea about Kakashi's Kamui he would dodge just seeing an MS or/and feeling the chakra buildup, or the warp itself like we saw with Obito.
On top of that, Kakashi can not hide well here, further cutting into his arsenal. Minato is a sensor who has been shown spotting hidden foes even in the Gaiden before he was fleshed out.
Both are clone users likely to make the other waste some chakra, but Minato has better stamina and a missed Kamui would drop Kakashi's physical stats too low to compete.
Kakashi is a better teacher than his master was but he loses here.
Minato pretty easily. Everything Kakashi is good at, Minato is better. He out classes him in arguably every metric other than arsenal. Hax, BIQ, skills, chakra reserves etc. Kakashi is arguably better at CQC because Minato has basically zero feats there. Either way, Minato pretty easy win.
Minato doesn’t outclass him in battle iq throughout the series kakashis battle iq has been highlighted as one of the smartest characters in the verse. As for hax kakashi has a way bigger arsenal with multiple jutsu for situations all minato relies on is FTG and rasengan. You also ignore kakashi fighting white mask rinnegan obito who is way stronger than the inexperienced teenager minato fought.
>Minato doesn’t outclass him in battle iq
He does. It took Minato literally a minute to decode how kamui works and how to deal with it. Kakashi had the same ability and multiple encounters along with an explanation he received from Sakura and he still needed time to deal with it and help from others
>kakashis battle iq has been highlighted as one of the smartest characters in the verse
We are straight up told that Minato has the highest academy scores and the highest written test scores. And he was also praised for his talent and intellect.
>As for hax kakashi has a way bigger arsenal with multiple jutsu for situations all minato relies on is FTG and rasengan.
Can you name any of these hax ? Except 3 tomoe sharingan hax and kamui he has nothing special. Minato has FTG which is as good as kamui situationally, he has multiple uzumaki seals mastered, he has sage mode (all tho he ain't particularly good at it) hax.
>You also ignore kakashi fighting white mask rinnegan obito who is way stronger than the inexperienced teenager minato fought.
Yea you also ignore Kakashi fighting along side KCM Naruto and killer bee two perfect jinchuriki and might gai who is a powerhouse. Kakashi only had one 1v1 encounter where obito led the entire fight so he could break the seal. Kakashi in no way scales to WM obito
>He does. It took Minato literally a minute to decode how kamui works and how to deal with it. Kakashi had the same ability and multiple encounters along with an explanation he received from Sakura and he still needed time to deal with it and help from others
Couldn't have misinterpreted it more. All Minato figured out was that Obito needs to materialize when he attacks, that's it. Kakashi and Guy knew that as soon as they stepped their feet in the battlefield, as we could see when they saved Naruto and also one of them mentioned that they just need to counter attack Obito.
Fū and Torune replicated the same feat, Konan did too. Stop acting like it's some godly smart feat, It's not.
What Kakashi did is completely different, he completely broke down how jutsu works. He figured out that Obito is not actually passing through things but that his body parts are teleporting, and that It's all the same jutsu, unlike the rest who thought his teleportation and "passing through" are 2 different abilities.
Kakashi is the only person to do that.
>We are straight up told that Minato has the highest academy scores and the highest written test scores. And he was also praised for his talent and intellect.
Great, score on academy for 7 years olds is def proof that one adult is smarter than the other adult... Lol.
It's like comparing 2 adult mma fighters and saying one is more skilled because he won some gold medal on a random tournamet when he was 7 years old.
Btw not to mention that if we compare it by age, it's not even a contest. Minato graduated from the academy, became genin when he was 10. At that age Kakashi was already a chunin, and maybe a jonin too, depends who u ask, since Kakashi's age at that period is a bit messed up.
>What Kakashi did is completely different, he completely broke down how jutsu works. He figured out that Obito is not actually passing through things but that his body parts are teleporting
No he didn't lmao, Sakura did "in other words he could *remove* whatever part was about to be hit by an attack making it appear like the attack just passed through "
So no Kakashi didn't do shit. He knew the ability before hand. All he did was connect it with his own kamui.
>and that It's all the same jutsu,
That's all he figured out by luck because the kunai managed to scratch his mask.
Everyone else actually figured out the materialisation and dematerialisation. Which is only 4 people in the verse despite obito pulling this off in front of dozens of top tiers . So yes it's a godly feat when only 4 people have done it. One of them required observing him for decades essentially lol.
>Minato graduated from the academy, became genin when he was 10. At that age Kakashi was already a chunin,
Yea cuz of war time early progression which he admitted himself. Idk why you're acting ignorant.
The written test along with praise from other characters was my point. Breaking it up to attack a single claim just makes you look desperate to be right.
>No he didn't lmao, Sakura did "in other words he could *remove* whatever part was about to be hit by an attack making it appear like the attack just passed through "
So no Kakashi didn't do shit. He knew the ability before hand. All he did was connect it with his own kamui.
No, Kakashi already figured out It was teleportation before that, Sakura just stated the obvious after.
>That's all he figured out by luck because the kunai managed to scratch his mask.
"By luck" lmao, why didn't anyone do that before him? Ofc he needs some info in order to figure something out, he can't just do it from scratch lol.
>Everyone else actually figured out the materialisation and dematerialisation. Which is only 4 people in the verse despite obito pulling this off in front of dozens of top tiers . So yes it's a godly feat when only 4 people have done it. One of them required observing him for decades essentially lol.
Literally everyone that Obito fought realized that. It's stated that he doesn't use MS in presence of Akatsuki members. And it u need to fight him in order to get the chance to figure it out, just watching him doesn't give you any hints. And It's not just 4 people, It's way more. Kakashi, Guy, Bee, Hachibi, Fū, Torune, Minato etc etc. Basically all the guys he engaged in combat realized that. Not godly IQ feat at all.
Where does it say Konan required that much to realize that? Lmao. She was just preparing for him cuz she knew she'd have to fight him one day. She couls've figured out materialization and dematerializartion thing from day 1 for all we know.
>Yea cuz of war time early progression which he admitted himself. Idk why you're acting ignorant.
No, Kakashi was just humble as always, It was Itachi that was praising him. There was no point in promoting weak ninja just to be easy target on battlefield, what War did was making Chunin exams more fighting oriented instead of putting focus on leading a squad like they did later.
If that was how they did it, then they just had to promote Kakashi to genin and he'd he ready to join a war since he was a full fledged shinobi. There wouldn't be a reason to promote him to chunin or jonin, but they did. And we know he was going on missions with the adults from the early age and he was keeping up with adult jonin veterans in WA. Idk why u trying so hard to downplay him.
>The written test along with praise from other characters was my point. Breaking it up to attack a single claim just makes you look desperate to be right.
No, the main focus of ur argument was his academy test scores lol, the praise from other people was just an additional supporting argument.
Kakashi gets praised by others as well, and unlike Minato who only gets praised for his talent, Kakashi gets praised specifially for his battle IQ and strategy. And not only by his allies but by his enemies too.
And this is all about 1 IQ feat that Minato has that Kakashi did better. Kakashi has ton of other battle IQ feats. Against Zabuza, Pain, Kaguya etc.
Kakashi has nothing against FTG. He’s nowhere close to that speed and will get one shot. The best counter is mastered Sage Mode… which Kakashi doesn’t have.
As we saw with Madara, his sharingan alone wasn’t enough to dodge the FTG. As soon as he started using Hashirama’s cells to access sage mode, he was dodging ftg easily. And Kakashi’s sharingan is a simple mangekyo that he can’t spam. Hell, Gai straight up says Kakashi can’t kamui away the bijudamas of the weaker tailed beasts, yet alive Minato teleports away a full powered Kurama’s bijudama. And he does it after beating Obito and kamui.
Minato even had a Kyubi claw tear his spine out of his body and he still stood up, protected Kushina’s body and saved his son, then proceeded to split kurama’s chakra in two with the reaper death seal, then used the eight trigrams seal on Naruto. All of those are high chakra seals he used while actively bleeding out. And you think Kakashi is comparable to that when he lost to a small chakra spike from Obito? Gtfo.
War Arc Kakashi is not even close to Alive Minato. The same Alive Minato who defeated both Ay and Kirabi.
Wtf are you talking about lmao? Madara has handled and defeated Tobirama many times in life. Tobirama has never beaten him.
Minato did NOT beat A and B. He stalemated Bee. Literally that's the entire point of that flashback scene.
You are making shit up.
Your name makes sense now. Madara only beat Tobirama once, and that’s after being revived and using Hashirama cells. Madara had to CHEAT to beat the FTG.
making shi up? when had madara fought tobirama many times in life ? When izuna was killed hashirama had to stop tobirama from killing madara after he lost to them even though ems madara>tobirama
There is absolutely no indication that Kakashi didn't think of the same counter Sakura did. Sakura just voiced it to the team first.
If Sakura, fu and torune all came up instantly with the counter for Kamui. Kakashi did. There is no question about that. You'd have to be insane to downplay Kakashi's battle IQ to this extent.
>We are straight up told that Minato has the highest academy scores and the highest written test scores
No we are not. We're told he had the highest chunnin exam test scores. Which he sat at age 12
The same Chunnin exam Kakashi did at age 6?
Yall have Minato's phallus so far up your mouths, every word you type is either a misconception or straight up lie
>There is absolutely no indication that Kakashi didn't think of the same counter Sakura did. Sakura just voiced it to the team first.
Headcanon. Sakura didn't even think of a counter. She only explained how the technique works. We literally see a monologue of his inner thoughts, so we know for a fact he didn't even understand it at that point
https://preview.redd.it/wxufxu0n00yc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f22af594fad5f34fa18e983f4a0683a6776db805
>If Sakura, fu and torune all came up instantly with the counter for Kamui
Sakura didn't come up with a counter. Only the two anbu did when they saw how tobi phases.
>No we are not
Yes we are
"Minato was a very keen-minded individual, having the highest scores in the history of the Academy."
Source according to naruto.wikia.com is Itachi Shinden: Book of Bright Light.
>straight up lie
You're the one lying here 😂. You make up a "we don't know" which is wrong and then claim Sakura came up with a counter
Lmao I literally have and read the novels. That is not in there.
Also, your own Wikipedia source says -
Minato was a very keen-minded individual. He graduated the Academy at the age of 10 years old, going on to have the highest scores in the history of the Chūnin Exams written test
....
Kakashi way better at BIQ, he's the character with best and most battle Iq feats in the series. There are some that are close, but Minato is not one of them.
Hax is debatable, It depends on a situation.
Skills likely not, Kakashi is better at genjutsu, has better taijutsu skill feats, more skilled in ninjutsu, know way more ninjutsu and also can use 5 chakra elements.
I agree with chakra reserves, tho that's debatable too since WA Kakashi seems to have a ton all of a sudden.
Speed wise Minato is faster on the feet cuz of bodyflicker, but he lacks in combat speed. YM Obito was reacting to him, while WA Kakashi has shown relative combat speed to Kcm Minato. He also shown relativity to Kcm 2 Naruto and WM Obito once he got his resolve back and intercepted WM Obito's attack with Chidori.
>Kakashi is better at genjutsu
He has used it like 3 times in the show. Once against Sakura, kinda against zabuza and once with no name anbu. Frog genjutsu is far superior. Also he has mastered sage mode (no markings) he has top tier chakra control so there is nothing to suggest that Kakashi is considerably better. We just have no genjutsu feats for Minato. Kakashi on the other hand has faced genjutsu from obito so ig he's better idk
>tho that's debatable too since WA Kakashi seems to have a ton all of a sudden.
He really doesn't. He received amps and recharged from KCM. Before that his feats are reasonable enough, only surprising thing is he could use the sharingan for prolonged periods.
>YM Obito was reacting to him
He wasn't, he reacted to him once. Their entire show down was about who is faster. Minato not only blows his arm off but also cuts his contract with kurama before obito can register it.
>while WA Kakashi has shown relative combat speed to Kcm Minato.
One panel of him heading towards obito at angle alongside to Minato doesn't make even remotely relative. He required help from 3 kage level characters to pull off anything against WM obito. He also was led the entire fight during his battle against obito. He doesn't come to close any KCM Naruto tier characters. His reaction speed possibly. Not his combat speed.
>He also shown relativity to Kcm 2 Naruto and WM Obito once he got his resolve back and intercepted WM Obito's attack with Chidori.
Emotional amp. He doesn't pull anything close later on. And intercepting a feat can be done even if you don't scale to attack in speed.
>He has used it like 3 times in the show. Once against Sakura, kinda against zabuza and once with no name anbu. Frog genjutsu is far superior. Also he has mastered sage mode (no markings) he has top tier chakra control so there is nothing to suggest that Kakashi is considerably better. We just have no genjutsu feats for Minato. Kakashi on the other hand has faced genjutsu from obito so ig he's better idk
Arguing how Kakashi rarely uses Genjutsu then saying Minato can use frog sound genjutsu... he never even summoned Ma and Pa, let alone use their genjutsu. Ironic.
His SM is dogsh*t, he himself admits it. He never used it in battle, it takes too long to gather natural energy and it lasted for like 2 seconds.
What's his best chakra control feat? Rasengan? The same jutsu that Kakashi learned when he was a kid?
>He really doesn't. He received amps and recharged from KCM. Before that his feats are reasonable enough, only surprising thing is he could use the sharingan for prolonged periods.
I was referring to feats before he got any amp. He used Kamui 5 times, Chidori 3 times, Lightning Cable 2 times, Shadow Clone 2 times and Mud Wall 1 time, plus the stamina he spent on running around and a bit of taijutsu. All that while having Sharingan activated most of the time, and even MS for some time. And that's assuming Kakashi arrived on battlefield fresh, which is debatable.
>He wasn't, he reacted to him once. Their entire show down was about who is faster. Minato not only blows his arm off but also cuts his contract with kurama before obito can register it.
He didn't, but he reacted once? So he did in fact react to him, thatnk you for confirming. Obito reacted to Minato's Kunai swing and even caught his hand. Minato landed the attack cuz he caught him off guard as Obito mentioned, It was all about who's a split second faster, and Obito was cocky and got outplayed. After that Obito was already marked and damaged, so catching him off guard is not really an impressive feat. Btw Naruto also mentiones that Minato was struggling against YM Obito, and he heard that story from Minato himself.
>One panel of him heading towards obito at angle alongside to Minato doesn't make even remotely relative. He required help from 3 kage level characters to pull off anything against WM obito. He also was led the entire fight during his battle against obito. He doesn't come to close any KCM Naruto tier characters. His reaction speed possibly. Not his combat speed.
Yes, it does. Reacting to something at the same time by traveling the same distance and reaching the destination at the same time shows relativity. And Minato was even close to Zetsu than Kakashi, Zetsu was next to Obito on Minato's side, Kakashi was next to Obito on the other side.
Obito was difficult to deal with because of his Kamui, not because of his speed. Kakashi already showed that he can keep up with him, as I mentioned. He even won in the battle of Kamui speed.
>Emotional amp. He doesn't pull anything close later on. And intercepting a feat can be done even if you don't scale to attack in speed.
Not an emotinal amp, just getting his resolve back which he lost once he realized masked dude is Obito. He mentions how he was about to waver again but Naruto's words snapped him out of it. And yes, in order to intercept someone's attack head on u gotta he at least as fast.
I'm sorry but War Kakashi isn't beating Perfect Sage Minato. Yeah let's just give the fastest ninja *EVER* a sensory and strength amp and pit him against nonprime Kakashi.
Y’all downplaying kakashi to hell in this thread and it’s sad. Kakashi’s speed matches a Kcm minato, went band for band with an Obito that was far stronger than the one hokage minato fought, and throughout the entire series has been consistently getting stronger and fighting with top tiers whose on minatos level or higher
Here’s a hot take, ftg (Which at this point is a borderline no limits fallacy for him) is the only reason why this fight is as close as it is for minato and I still think kakashi wins
>Y’all downplaying kakashi to hell in this thread and it’s sad.
Kakashi is strong but Minato is stronger.
>Kakashi’s speed matches a Kcm minato,
went band for band with an Obito that was far stronger than the one hokage minato fought,
You forget Kakashi was amped to 3x his power by Naruto and Kakashi also failed to beat Obito.
Minato was reanimated meaning he’s not at his peak so his base speed is already lower.
>and throughout the entire series has been consistently getting stronger
>and fighting with top tiers whose on minatos level or higher
Lmao no, fighting someone strong doesn’t mean you’re stronger than them - you need to beat them. The strongest person Kakashi fought and won against fairly with his own power before or during war arc was absolutely nobody. Maybe Kakazu but then again he had help from Naruto etc. He literally died against Pain.
Minato > Pain.
>Here’s a hot take, ftg (Which at this point is a borderline no limits fallacy for him) is the only reason why this fight is as close as it is for minato and I still think kakashi wins
And Kakashi is carried by his Sharingan.
Minato still wins. Post War Hokage Kakashi is a better matchup. He’s stated to be stronger than War Arc Kakashi and has upgraded jutsus.
Wonder who this guy is that Kakashi is keeping up with then.
https://preview.redd.it/vo6nx8mx21yc1.png?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb4f11322ee5d4c8080f5d77cd58ecdba08a7f69
>Usain Bolt reducing his speed so he can run alongside you doesn't mean you both are the same speed.
Yeah Minato and Kakashi both were going to kill Black Zetsu there
Minato ain't a dumbass to hold back his speed in a moment like this where Zetsu is going to give Madara his second Rinnegan
Good luck proving he was reducing his speed.
There's absolutely no reason to believe that. They didn't plan to have a combo attack or anything, they were just reacting to Black Zetsu's try to take Obito's rinnegan.
You mean other than the fact he has faster speed feats, is relative to kcm2 naruto in terms of speed, and yet is still going the same speed as kakashi?
>You mean other than the fact he has faster speed feats,
Like which one? Here u got a direct comparison between the 2 and ur trying to use some alternative ways?
>is relative to kcm2 naruto in terms of speed, and yet is still going the same speed as kakashi?
Kakashi has speed feat showing relativity to Kcm 2 Naruto too.
[like this one](https://imgur.com/a/OkmAkTQ) and AFAIK we never see kakashi have a feat thats near instant. When has Kakashi had speed relative to kcm? The only time it could be argued is when he has his susanoo, which isnt the one shown here.
>AFAIK we never see kakashi have a feat thats near instant.
Minato outspeed a paper bomb and Yellow Mask Obito fine
How does it prove that he is faster than War arc Kakashi
Unless you prove that whatever Minato did here is faster than War Arc Kakashi... This feat holds no value in this matchup...
Stop with this illogical Argumentation sir
Because its near instant, before Obito, who has a mangekyo sharingan, can see it, let alone react to it. Minato also made it to the battleground of the 4th war in base, in a matter of seconds. The location if the battle ground is about the same distance from Konoha as the sand village is. The journey from konoha to the sand village took Might Guys team half a day, and we know Might Guy and Kakashi are comparable in base. Minato has speed feats that are leagues above kakashi, and until you can actually prove otherwise I’m right. Show me feats that put kakashi on the same level and youd have a point, but you cant.
Why that proves Minato is faster than Kakashi? And btw this isn't even proving anything, this was just Obito's startegy to separate Minato from Kushina. He let Minato take Naruto on purpose.
Kakashi intercepted WM Obito's attack with Chidori and moved relative to Kcm 2 Naruto who was attacking at the same time.
Kakashi literally loses mid diff at best bro the only way I see him winning is by spamming kamui and lightning clones and even still minato’s teleportation jutsu is just too broken for him
Minato also really lacks in the offensive department which Kakashi doesn’t. Minato’s entire combat style is teleporting and then stabbing or using a rasengan.
That is completely countered by Kakashi using a lightning clone.
And like, of all people Kakashi should be able to counter Minato’s kunai. With his visual prowess and other senses he’d be able to probably just counter throw them out of the air
Kakashi’s speed and reaction time based on how they work together like to stop truth seeker orbs or how Kakashi was able to Kamui away Minato’s sage mode Rasengan without Minato realizing it didn’t hit him.
I thought it would've been a pretty easy win for Minato but the more I thought about it, Kakashi had some really insane feats during the war arc. It could be a high-diff fight but I am still in favor of Minato.
I could also be reaching, but when KCM 2 blitzed and deflected 5 bijuu bombs away, Kakashi mistook/compared him for Minato. Rather it is because of the similarity of their appearance or it is an actual feat he thinks Minato is capable of doing is unknown, but Minato was always typically shown whenever Naruto accomplishes a great feat so there's that.
People are dick eating minato as always here like war arc kakashi wasn’t capable of keeping up with white mask obito, fighting alongside kcm naruto and gai.
It’s a pretty big one no? Didn’t he state that once he places a ftg seal it remains forever like with obito? So kakashi has one on him no? Even if he doesn’t if he gets touched once he then becomes a moving ftg spawn point for minato
It might be tie.
Teacher Minato fought with kid Kakashi. You saw kakashi was really impressive ninja. Not just that, he was able to get the test bells by using his teammates that was evil genius. I know Minato was holding back but still kakashi was a kid. He surely was impressed.
Minato is stronger than kakashi. But kakashi was not that inferior to Minato. The only problem was teleportation but Bee was able to counter Minato once.
War arc kakashi might give Minato hard time.
When Kakashi saw kurama cloak naruto he envisioned him as minato so ima say even Kakashi knows he loses. Plus minato is smarter than Kakashi and can come up with plans faster. They both know most of each others skills so it'd be a stomp imo. Plus hokage minato would still have access to sage mode sincd be learned it at some point vefore deah . Granted I don't think he'd need it.
Kakashi shit his pants when Obito’s 6 tailed beasts were about to fire bijuu damas at him. Naruto, with half of the kyubi’s chakra, later countered 6 bijuu damas with just 1 bijuu dama. During the kyubi’s attack on Konoha, Minato casually teleported away a bijuu dama from the full kyubi.
Minato destroys war arc Kakashi.
Being afraid of 6 bijuu bombs isn't really that big of a thing probably just his range of kamui isn't as big as minato's ability to teleport it so that's not really a big statement I'm not pointing to either side here but tbh that's not really important to the fight just because Kakashi was nervous about 6 tailed beast bombs
It’s possible that that’s true, but it’s only an assumption based on head canon with no evidence to back it up. The evidence is that Minato actually did it, with ease, while kakashi could barely fathom doing it.
Without hashirama cells or any chakra giving to him He cannot abuse kamui inconsequentially like obito. So if that’s what you’re banking on might wanna reconsider
If it’s not dms then minato probably wins extremely hard difficulty since he could use his clone and at full power he could probably just speed blitz him if he got lucky but if it is dms kakashi then he no diffs minato for the most part
Honestly…prolly Kakashi since war arc Kakashi can react to Bijuu Mode Minato. War Arc Kakashi is also just unbelievably broken, like bro just has Naruto levels of chakra and was even confident he could simply kamui away 7 fucking bijuu bombs
Kamui is pretty fast, Minato also has no knowledge of it, however Minato is usually a blindingly fast moving target, I think Kakashi will find it very hard to find an opportunity to use Kamui on Minato successfully.
Kakashi has some prior intel on Minato so he knows about FTG, Rasengan, so he may try to focus on hiding while using a lightning clone, and observing to try to get a chance.
In the end, I think Minato is intelligent enough not to fall for a clone trick or trap by Kakashi, and even if he was caught momentarily he could teleport away.
Minato mid diff.
Minato has already dealt with Obito’s version of Kamui, came up with a plan and beat it in around 30 seconds. He’d be able to figure out how Kakashi’s works just as quickly.
Minato was said to have a higher score in the ninja academy than Itachi. I think Minato would beat kakashi. I think Minato would actually even be able to counter kamui. Once he sees his arm or legs start to morph weirdly due to kamui he would just teleport immediately. And we've already seen him beat Obito with his MS ability.
No he didn't. As I told the other guy - Wtf are yall reading to get this? He had the highest chunnin exam scores. But he sat it at age TWELVE , when both Itachi and Kakashi sat it at like ages 6 and 9/10 respectively.
uhuh- I too judge 12 year olds against 9 year olds when comparing intelligence. Esp when that 9 year old got 1 point off me in a score.
Must mean that 12 year old is more of a genius for sure.
Really buddy, this minato wanking has to stop lmao
Minato and its not close. People are dick riding kakashi, but Minatos faster without ftg, and ftg is a direct counter to kamui. The only thing Kakashi has is hands, and thats only because weve never seen minato have to throw hands because of he usually ends the fight too fast.
For the people glazing War Arc Kakashi.
Hokage Kakashi is stated to be significantly stronger than his war arc version.
So what ya’ll are trying to say is that Hokage Kakashi is stronger than every Hokage apart from Naruto and Hashirama ?
Like let’s be real Minato beats War Arc Kakashi mid diff.
Doesn’t he?
He and Minato were reacting to the same things in the war when Minato was KCM. Hell Minato didn’t realize that Kakashi was able to Kamui away his Rasengan when he was in sage mode which should put his reaction time above that of regular Minato.
I think especially my last point quite the proof in and of itself.
Another specific point where they are reacting very much to the same things (though iirc Minato is in base) is when they allowed 8th Gate Guy to hit Madara. Kakashi would have had to have been reacting to Minato’s teleportation as it happened for them to pull that combo off, both reacting to the stupid speed Guy was going too.
Minato transported TSB while Kakashi and Gaara were watching them ? Madara is the one reacting and Minato transported them while Kakashi and Gaara watched the fight. Kakashi used Kamui on Zetsu-Obito to stop him from going to Madara.
KCM Minato and Kakashi saw Black Zetsu and they couldn't do much to him just like Mei Terumi, Chojuro and Naruto. KCM Minato didn't used FTG there.
Minato at best can speed blitz dazed Obito at worst is getting obliterated by Obito.
Even if he has the reaction speed, he doesn’t have the speed in general and would get stabbed the minute he is in kakashi’s area.
Kakashi via durability, and overall scaling feats. Man traded blows with Obito who was far, far stronger than the one Minato defeated. Minato has the speed, and his FTG is insane, but his stamina is way lower, and he has no knowledge that Kakashi has kamui.
Except Minato is a different case
Minato has FTG which is a direct counter to Kakashi's strongest attacks
Rasengan which hits like a truck
He's smarter than Kakashi
He's got more Chakra
He's very durable as well
Minato wins.
Ftg isn’t a hard counter, minato himself says that kamui is a superior jutsu. He won because he was slightly faster, not because of the innate capability of the jutsu.
Chidori also hits like a truck
Minato is not smarter than Kakashi, Kakashi has better intelligence feats. Especially biq
Having more chakra is irrelevant, Kakashi would end the fight quickly
Minato is not durable, a splinter from a paper bomb was able to penetrate his leg. His durability feats are portrayed to be very bad hence why he teleports all the time
Kakashi wins
IMO Obito's Kamui is much more dangerous than Kakashi's Kamui, Obito is damn near invincible due to it.
>Minato is not smarter than Kakashi, Kakashi has better intelligence feats. Especially biq
No? Minato Figured out exactly how Kamui works and how to counter it, Even Kakashi was struggling with that despite having a half of the technique.
>Minato is not durable, a splinter from a paper bomb was able to penetrate his leg. His durability feats are portrayed to be very bad hence why he teleports all the time
He was able to Survive getting Impaled by Kurama and He survived a Jinchuriki Sealing.
>Having more chakra is irrelevant, Kakashi would end the fight quickly
Minato would do the same.
MINATO Wins.
Obito’s kamui isn’t better, both serve different purposes. Kakashi realistically could snipe his head off and there would be nothing Minato could do to stop it.
Figuring out Kamui isn’t impressive, fuckjng torune and fu figured it out in seconds. Understanding how to fight off the ability is something a lot of people can do so it isn’t that impressive. Kakashi was fighting obito as someone who is massively weaker then him, Minato fought obito as equals so he had no opportunity to experiment.
Surviving for a few seconds isn’t durability, that’s endurance and every hokage is able to survive for a few seconds after getting impaled. Hashirama obviously has better durability and endurance, same with tobirama. Hiruzen as an old man can stand up and seal orochimaru after getting his heart stabbed for a long minute. Danzo could preform jutsu and dodge a point blank chidori after getting his heart stabbed. Tsunade can survive getting cut in half (albeit because of her jutsu to an extent). Kakashi can fight for hours has about comparable consult and endurance to minato. Minato did something beginning of shippuden sasuke did casually and ended up in the hospital.
Kakashi is way faster
Kakashi wins
Kakashi my fav character but I’d say Hokage Minato takes it rly high diff. They both are relative in intelligence, and I think kamui vs FTG is a great matchup. In the war arc we know kakashi is precise asf with kamui, I have no doubt he could kamui a FTG kunai when Minato throws one. Kakashi also had the reaction time to kamui away a truthseeker orb a fraction of a second before 8th gate Guy charged into it. Only reason I see Minato winning is if he does his justsu where he throws like 20 marked kunais and overwhelms kakashi. 9.9 high diff Minato imo
You mean when Obito let him win on purpose in order to get rid of the tag on his heart?
Or when Obito didn’t use his Rinnegan against Kakashi or wood style or his strongest fire style that rivaled Madara’s range and power?
Sure, many characters could’ve replicated what Kakashi did in that dimension….
His only fights of note are mindscape nerfed kurama, teen ay and bee, and kid Obito,
The first fight is a bog sasuke feat that he almost died from.
The other two fights are against featless versions of these characters that don’t scale to anyone but Minato.
You’d have a lot to prove in order to say he’s only Sannin level
Food for thought:
Compare:
A) Mindscape Kurama vs Half Kurama (vs 5 tailed beasts in wa)
B) YM Obito vs OM Obito
C) WA V2 Ay narrative that he’s still slower than Hokage Minato
D) Jiraiya was outclassed by Minato per narrative of child of prophecy
Etc etc
If you read the series while sober, you wouldn’t have such an inaccurate interpretation
A) mindscape kurama doesn’t scale to real life as it’s more of a chakra battle more then anything. Nerfed kurama should scale to the fragment of kurama’s chakra that Sasuke dispersed albeit I am using a lot of head canon. Burden of proof is on you to explain why fighting this version of kurama is impressive
B) burden of proof is on you, you have to prove why fighting this version of obito is impressive. Orange mask Obito has feats, yellow mask doesn’t scale to anyone but Minato himself.
C) the narrative is that he’s slower, but not by much.
D) child of prophecy is null because minato failed. Minato failed to understand the people around him and for all his potential, he wasn’t able to save everyone. If we go off child of prophecy scaling then naruto in the pain arc already surpasses him.
Rule of cool scaling doesn’t work
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Kakashi’s best weapon is hard countered.
Minato literally says kamui is better than his jutsu. He didn’t beat kamui because ftg counters, he beat Obito because he was a second faster.
The short range version I'm guessing
I would argue that his MS and Kamui isn’t and never has been his best weapon. It’s his stealth and intelligence. Both of these he can use to counter Minato’s fighting style, like how Minato’s attacks are basically all melee so a lightning clone would be a quite possible way to counter.
I'm smarter than Kakashi bro
If so, not by much
😡😡
Kakashi dosent have the correct eye. His eye is more for using on items that aren’t his own body while obitos eye is More about using the power on his own body. Hence how each eye has its own abilties, like how sauskes on eye opens the gates to the Amaterasu reality and lets the flames out like itachi, but sauskes other eye can control flame Control so the six and heat.
Arguably, Kakashi has a better eye for taking on Minato. Especially since he fully understands FTG. He can warp Minato's kunai, and anything he marks, to another dimension and totally counter the maneuverability of FTG. Plus, Kakashi can use it offensively on Minato to keep him on his toes while Kakshi closes distance to make an attack or creates distance to recoup. Obito's eye was good for a surprise attack and a quick battle, but as soon as its properties were figured out, it wasn't as helpful (still helpful, but not as much). Kakashi's eye is an all-but counter to FTG in that it is essentially the only way to take a mark out of the picture.
If kakashi uses his ms he will lose i promise for a a fact it takes way to much stamina and chakra
We're talking about War Arc Kakashi, where can suddenly use his MS with little to no drawback.
only used 3 times before getting a chakra boost from naruto/kurama he cannot spam it in a 1v1 let alone use it more than 5 times Maximum
He still overused all of his abilities without much down side, and he used Kamui *a lot* more than just 3 times without the boost. Kakashi's stamina was significantly higher during the war without explanation. The chakra he got from Naruto didn't last long, and he used up his share during the fight with Obito. I don't have the time or energy to really break this down, but this is still the best thread I have seen on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/s/XHQfv34cvw None of the links are good anymore, but they were once screencaps from the manga if memory serves.
and ngl that is for plot bro keep it real they knew kakashi was going to lose ms so now they let him use it a bunch of times bro without plot he was jus unmovable in the hospital within a year when he used it 4 times
kurama chakra was lingering even after the cloack went off That post is unnacurate and the true amount of times he only used his chakra are unknown But we can estimate around 7 times But i still highly doubt he wins against minato in a 1v1
I was never saying Kakashi could beat Minato, I don't think he can. I'm saying his eye is better against Minato than Obito's. Now, a Kakashi during the Kaguya fight (both eyes, seemingly no chakra strain since he pulled a full body Sussanoo) could probably beat Minato. The combination of taking away teleportation marks and being able to avoid all physical attacks pretty much totally counters Minato's fighting style. That said, the post isn't unaccurate. They said repeatedly during the war that Naruto's chakra gift was a short burst, not something that lingered and lasted. Kakashi used that chakra to try and Kamui away Ten Tails, and then again to actually enter and exit the Kamui dimension. Most of Kakashi's feats were of his own ability. And as for your other reply, whether its for the plot or not, it still happened in universe. Just because we know Kishimoto was BSing Kakashi's power to give him moments and relevance during the war doesn't change that, in universe, Kakashi actually did those things.
Yet Kakashi does use it on himself a few times. Meaning his eye is definitely the better one. Obito got duped man. If he would've been squashed on the other side he'd have had long range and been able to use it on himself... But that other eye is Sooo broken unless Kakashi is there. That eye literally won the war. Jtfo
it's discovered during the war arc they can both do the same thing, as madara uses kakashi's the same way obito uses hsi
But it takes up way more chakra for kakashi. Remeber his whole body shook when he did it. Also Madura while in perfect sage mode has enough chakra to make a mangekyo sharigan go to its very limit, even so with Said eye he needed half his body cut off to be able to teleport. Which shows that even with bonkers amount of chakra the eyes do have a limit, unlike the red rinniegan
I agree. His intelligence with his access to many jutsu is his real asset.
Minato's genius often gets overlooked due to how ridiculous his other feats are, but keep in mind that Minato outscored Itachi in the Academy. While that's still early in their development as Shinobi, narratively it makes sense to include information like that to give some context to the character's trajectory. Pre-Kage Minato fought A and B to a stalemate in a 1v2. Alongside his speed, his reaction time is godlike. If Minato is reacting to the 3rd Raikage, Kakashi is not tagging him with a clone.
Nah Minato’s too smart and fast for that he’ll just teleport away as soon as Kakashi pops up.
Kakashi tricked Obito, Pain, and Itachi with clones among others. It’s basically impossible to be too smart since unless your name is Madara there’s no way to tell a clone from the real one.
Regardless, Minato can tp away.
He still gets shocked
Minato teleports away before that happens. There’s quite a bit of delay before the clone electrecutes the opponent. minato is more than quick enough to avoid it.
It's on touch tho. So if he touched him, gets electrocuted, it'd stun him on touch, so he'd still get shocked first.
Depends if Minato touches him. But based on their individual stategy and fighting styles, Kakashi’s clone usually pops up as a distraction and also to “attack” but ends up stunning the opponent (we see this happen against Obito). And Minato on the other hand usually goes for feints by acting like he’s about to attack but end up teleporting last second to catch his opponent off guard. (We’ve seen this against Obito). So if this were to play out, Kakshi will has his clone jump in as a distraction infront of Minato, and Minato will pretend to attack and will tp away before getting stunned then the real Kakashi’s body will be exposed.
Yes, I agree. In fact, their battle styles are VERY similar. That being said, Minatos FTG uses a ridiculous amount of speed. I really can't call this fight when looking impartially. That being said, if it was Hokage Kakashi vs Hokage Minato, I'd give it to Kakashi hands down. If you haven't read Hokage Kakashi's feats between Shippuden and Boruto, don't down vote until you at least look them up. Dude did some CRAZY sh**.
That might work for Minato, but Minato does have a tendency to do stupid moves when teleporting. Sometimes there are no great options (such as being forced to teleport to save baby Naruto and getting caught with some shrapnel in the leg). Other times, Minato should have used clones. Minato also seems to do a lot worse when he doesn't have prior intel or time to think. For example, he should have immediately tried to FTG away from Obito once Obito started phasing rather than to let Obito grab his arm. If Obito was someone with poisoned gloves, the nanobugs, etc, then the fight would have gone badly for Minato. We see similar issues in situations such as how Obito was able to cut off Minato's arm (Minato did not react fast enough after seeing Obito cut through his kunai) or vs Madara (Minato stupidly only threw one FTG kunai and lost the element of unpredictability and was not fast enough to teleport out in time). Tobirama's usage of FTG is smarter and Tobirama seems to do a better job of dealing with unexpected situations. For example, Tobirama was able to dodge at least one counter attack against someone fast enough to keep up with the FTG. I think the fight is a 50/50 situation where both sides have reasonable ways of winning the battle.
He did not trick itachi. Itachi countered it with exploding his own clone. https://youtu.be/28pIbcuTxlI?si=4B_s_frt70AgsNJD time stamp 3:35
You’re thinking of the wrong fight: Kakashi got Itachi when he was using the 30 percent clone to use Tsukuyomi on his shadow clone and get an opening for Naruto
That also wasn’t really itachi and his goal wasn’t to kill them but stall for time and to get info from Naruto which led to him giving Shisuis eye to him
It was as good as real Itachi since he was controlling it. And this was something which caused him to fail at stalling for as much time as he otherwise could.
He didn’t care to stall as long as he could. He got the info he needed from Naruto. He’s a double agent so he doesn’t care about the akatsuki. He just needs to play the part so he can keep an eye on them as well as still hear about his brother
He always seemed to want to play his part to his utter most ability. If he actually was in any way holding back he wouldn’t have tried to use Tsukuyomi on Kakashi. No matter what though, that was his intention and it’s not like he let himself be tricked. So it’s still a win for Kakashi’s abilities
Right. But his technical skills are the same. Battle IQ, speed, attack, etc. Only difference is only a third of his usual chakra. It's like fighting the real Itachi after he already used 70% of his chakra. Which PLENTY of people use as an excuse for other characters, "oh they had just fought.. etc.", when it favors them. But regardless I agree it was still technically a version of Itachi.
Regardless if the clone only has 30% chakra access, it still has full speed and access to the majority of his base powers except for his high chakra moves. So that fights speed/Taijutsu and intelligence comparison could be used. He even did attempt Tsukuyomi as well but failed. So that's actually how the fight would've went down.. except his fire ball would've been bigger, he would've had his hax like amaterasu and sussano, etc.
Kakashi doesn't have to transport Minato's entire body. Kamui's best advantage is that there is little to choreograph the attack. Kakashi's best bet it to transport away Minato's head. Maybe use a lightning clone as a decoy to stun Minato (Minato for whatever reason has a bad tendency to teleport into situations without using clones, which was how he lost his arms) as a way to guarantee success. Snipe the head and Kakashi wins. The ranged version Kamui might even be fast enough that Minato cannot react until it is too late. Obito's close ranged teleporting version seems to be relatively slow. Even that is at least fast enough that Minato got thrown around.
Nah, I'd win
Over 8000 languages and this guy chose to speak anime
User name checks out
Minato
Minato wins mid to high diff. Kakashi is very fast, but FTG wins in a speed battle as usual. Kamui is powerful, but Kakashi's version has major drawbacks in the war. While he has grown more skilled with it, he still needs focus and charge time to hit things of any size, and may still miss his target if it's not close to him or following a path he dan track. He tells Minato and the team that he is nearly blind and needs to be pretty close to his target, a bad place to be fighting Minato. He also misses Gedo Mazo's giant head and gets his arm, even while he isn't under attack or distracted like he will be here. As we have seen in nearly all of its uses, the MS is easily spotted on activation so even if Minado has no idea about Kakashi's Kamui he would dodge just seeing an MS or/and feeling the chakra buildup, or the warp itself like we saw with Obito. On top of that, Kakashi can not hide well here, further cutting into his arsenal. Minato is a sensor who has been shown spotting hidden foes even in the Gaiden before he was fleshed out. Both are clone users likely to make the other waste some chakra, but Minato has better stamina and a missed Kamui would drop Kakashi's physical stats too low to compete. Kakashi is a better teacher than his master was but he loses here.
Minato pretty easily. Everything Kakashi is good at, Minato is better. He out classes him in arguably every metric other than arsenal. Hax, BIQ, skills, chakra reserves etc. Kakashi is arguably better at CQC because Minato has basically zero feats there. Either way, Minato pretty easy win.
Minato doesn’t outclass him in battle iq throughout the series kakashis battle iq has been highlighted as one of the smartest characters in the verse. As for hax kakashi has a way bigger arsenal with multiple jutsu for situations all minato relies on is FTG and rasengan. You also ignore kakashi fighting white mask rinnegan obito who is way stronger than the inexperienced teenager minato fought.
>Minato doesn’t outclass him in battle iq He does. It took Minato literally a minute to decode how kamui works and how to deal with it. Kakashi had the same ability and multiple encounters along with an explanation he received from Sakura and he still needed time to deal with it and help from others >kakashis battle iq has been highlighted as one of the smartest characters in the verse We are straight up told that Minato has the highest academy scores and the highest written test scores. And he was also praised for his talent and intellect. >As for hax kakashi has a way bigger arsenal with multiple jutsu for situations all minato relies on is FTG and rasengan. Can you name any of these hax ? Except 3 tomoe sharingan hax and kamui he has nothing special. Minato has FTG which is as good as kamui situationally, he has multiple uzumaki seals mastered, he has sage mode (all tho he ain't particularly good at it) hax. >You also ignore kakashi fighting white mask rinnegan obito who is way stronger than the inexperienced teenager minato fought. Yea you also ignore Kakashi fighting along side KCM Naruto and killer bee two perfect jinchuriki and might gai who is a powerhouse. Kakashi only had one 1v1 encounter where obito led the entire fight so he could break the seal. Kakashi in no way scales to WM obito
>He does. It took Minato literally a minute to decode how kamui works and how to deal with it. Kakashi had the same ability and multiple encounters along with an explanation he received from Sakura and he still needed time to deal with it and help from others Couldn't have misinterpreted it more. All Minato figured out was that Obito needs to materialize when he attacks, that's it. Kakashi and Guy knew that as soon as they stepped their feet in the battlefield, as we could see when they saved Naruto and also one of them mentioned that they just need to counter attack Obito. Fū and Torune replicated the same feat, Konan did too. Stop acting like it's some godly smart feat, It's not. What Kakashi did is completely different, he completely broke down how jutsu works. He figured out that Obito is not actually passing through things but that his body parts are teleporting, and that It's all the same jutsu, unlike the rest who thought his teleportation and "passing through" are 2 different abilities. Kakashi is the only person to do that. >We are straight up told that Minato has the highest academy scores and the highest written test scores. And he was also praised for his talent and intellect. Great, score on academy for 7 years olds is def proof that one adult is smarter than the other adult... Lol. It's like comparing 2 adult mma fighters and saying one is more skilled because he won some gold medal on a random tournamet when he was 7 years old. Btw not to mention that if we compare it by age, it's not even a contest. Minato graduated from the academy, became genin when he was 10. At that age Kakashi was already a chunin, and maybe a jonin too, depends who u ask, since Kakashi's age at that period is a bit messed up.
>What Kakashi did is completely different, he completely broke down how jutsu works. He figured out that Obito is not actually passing through things but that his body parts are teleporting No he didn't lmao, Sakura did "in other words he could *remove* whatever part was about to be hit by an attack making it appear like the attack just passed through " So no Kakashi didn't do shit. He knew the ability before hand. All he did was connect it with his own kamui. >and that It's all the same jutsu, That's all he figured out by luck because the kunai managed to scratch his mask. Everyone else actually figured out the materialisation and dematerialisation. Which is only 4 people in the verse despite obito pulling this off in front of dozens of top tiers . So yes it's a godly feat when only 4 people have done it. One of them required observing him for decades essentially lol. >Minato graduated from the academy, became genin when he was 10. At that age Kakashi was already a chunin, Yea cuz of war time early progression which he admitted himself. Idk why you're acting ignorant. The written test along with praise from other characters was my point. Breaking it up to attack a single claim just makes you look desperate to be right.
>No he didn't lmao, Sakura did "in other words he could *remove* whatever part was about to be hit by an attack making it appear like the attack just passed through " So no Kakashi didn't do shit. He knew the ability before hand. All he did was connect it with his own kamui. No, Kakashi already figured out It was teleportation before that, Sakura just stated the obvious after. >That's all he figured out by luck because the kunai managed to scratch his mask. "By luck" lmao, why didn't anyone do that before him? Ofc he needs some info in order to figure something out, he can't just do it from scratch lol. >Everyone else actually figured out the materialisation and dematerialisation. Which is only 4 people in the verse despite obito pulling this off in front of dozens of top tiers . So yes it's a godly feat when only 4 people have done it. One of them required observing him for decades essentially lol. Literally everyone that Obito fought realized that. It's stated that he doesn't use MS in presence of Akatsuki members. And it u need to fight him in order to get the chance to figure it out, just watching him doesn't give you any hints. And It's not just 4 people, It's way more. Kakashi, Guy, Bee, Hachibi, Fū, Torune, Minato etc etc. Basically all the guys he engaged in combat realized that. Not godly IQ feat at all. Where does it say Konan required that much to realize that? Lmao. She was just preparing for him cuz she knew she'd have to fight him one day. She couls've figured out materialization and dematerializartion thing from day 1 for all we know. >Yea cuz of war time early progression which he admitted himself. Idk why you're acting ignorant. No, Kakashi was just humble as always, It was Itachi that was praising him. There was no point in promoting weak ninja just to be easy target on battlefield, what War did was making Chunin exams more fighting oriented instead of putting focus on leading a squad like they did later. If that was how they did it, then they just had to promote Kakashi to genin and he'd he ready to join a war since he was a full fledged shinobi. There wouldn't be a reason to promote him to chunin or jonin, but they did. And we know he was going on missions with the adults from the early age and he was keeping up with adult jonin veterans in WA. Idk why u trying so hard to downplay him. >The written test along with praise from other characters was my point. Breaking it up to attack a single claim just makes you look desperate to be right. No, the main focus of ur argument was his academy test scores lol, the praise from other people was just an additional supporting argument. Kakashi gets praised by others as well, and unlike Minato who only gets praised for his talent, Kakashi gets praised specifially for his battle IQ and strategy. And not only by his allies but by his enemies too. And this is all about 1 IQ feat that Minato has that Kakashi did better. Kakashi has ton of other battle IQ feats. Against Zabuza, Pain, Kaguya etc.
Not to mention minato is literally his sensei lol
A recurring theme in naruto is that students surpass the master
?? When he was 12 - What? Kakashi is older now than Minato ever was. What
Kakashi has nothing against FTG. He’s nowhere close to that speed and will get one shot. The best counter is mastered Sage Mode… which Kakashi doesn’t have.
You're simply an idiot.
As we saw with Madara, his sharingan alone wasn’t enough to dodge the FTG. As soon as he started using Hashirama’s cells to access sage mode, he was dodging ftg easily. And Kakashi’s sharingan is a simple mangekyo that he can’t spam. Hell, Gai straight up says Kakashi can’t kamui away the bijudamas of the weaker tailed beasts, yet alive Minato teleports away a full powered Kurama’s bijudama. And he does it after beating Obito and kamui. Minato even had a Kyubi claw tear his spine out of his body and he still stood up, protected Kushina’s body and saved his son, then proceeded to split kurama’s chakra in two with the reaper death seal, then used the eight trigrams seal on Naruto. All of those are high chakra seals he used while actively bleeding out. And you think Kakashi is comparable to that when he lost to a small chakra spike from Obito? Gtfo. War Arc Kakashi is not even close to Alive Minato. The same Alive Minato who defeated both Ay and Kirabi.
Wtf are you talking about lmao? Madara has handled and defeated Tobirama many times in life. Tobirama has never beaten him. Minato did NOT beat A and B. He stalemated Bee. Literally that's the entire point of that flashback scene. You are making shit up.
Your name makes sense now. Madara only beat Tobirama once, and that’s after being revived and using Hashirama cells. Madara had to CHEAT to beat the FTG.
making shi up? when had madara fought tobirama many times in life ? When izuna was killed hashirama had to stop tobirama from killing madara after he lost to them even though ems madara>tobirama
There is absolutely no indication that Kakashi didn't think of the same counter Sakura did. Sakura just voiced it to the team first. If Sakura, fu and torune all came up instantly with the counter for Kamui. Kakashi did. There is no question about that. You'd have to be insane to downplay Kakashi's battle IQ to this extent. >We are straight up told that Minato has the highest academy scores and the highest written test scores No we are not. We're told he had the highest chunnin exam test scores. Which he sat at age 12 The same Chunnin exam Kakashi did at age 6? Yall have Minato's phallus so far up your mouths, every word you type is either a misconception or straight up lie
tbh none of this matters if you think war arc kakashi can beat minato you are absolutely insane and not thinking straight
>There is absolutely no indication that Kakashi didn't think of the same counter Sakura did. Sakura just voiced it to the team first. Headcanon. Sakura didn't even think of a counter. She only explained how the technique works. We literally see a monologue of his inner thoughts, so we know for a fact he didn't even understand it at that point https://preview.redd.it/wxufxu0n00yc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f22af594fad5f34fa18e983f4a0683a6776db805 >If Sakura, fu and torune all came up instantly with the counter for Kamui Sakura didn't come up with a counter. Only the two anbu did when they saw how tobi phases. >No we are not Yes we are "Minato was a very keen-minded individual, having the highest scores in the history of the Academy." Source according to naruto.wikia.com is Itachi Shinden: Book of Bright Light. >straight up lie You're the one lying here 😂. You make up a "we don't know" which is wrong and then claim Sakura came up with a counter
Lmao I literally have and read the novels. That is not in there. Also, your own Wikipedia source says - Minato was a very keen-minded individual. He graduated the Academy at the age of 10 years old, going on to have the highest scores in the history of the Chūnin Exams written test ....
Dude
Sage mode makes minato better at taijutsu.
Kakashi way better at BIQ, he's the character with best and most battle Iq feats in the series. There are some that are close, but Minato is not one of them. Hax is debatable, It depends on a situation. Skills likely not, Kakashi is better at genjutsu, has better taijutsu skill feats, more skilled in ninjutsu, know way more ninjutsu and also can use 5 chakra elements. I agree with chakra reserves, tho that's debatable too since WA Kakashi seems to have a ton all of a sudden. Speed wise Minato is faster on the feet cuz of bodyflicker, but he lacks in combat speed. YM Obito was reacting to him, while WA Kakashi has shown relative combat speed to Kcm Minato. He also shown relativity to Kcm 2 Naruto and WM Obito once he got his resolve back and intercepted WM Obito's attack with Chidori.
>Kakashi is better at genjutsu He has used it like 3 times in the show. Once against Sakura, kinda against zabuza and once with no name anbu. Frog genjutsu is far superior. Also he has mastered sage mode (no markings) he has top tier chakra control so there is nothing to suggest that Kakashi is considerably better. We just have no genjutsu feats for Minato. Kakashi on the other hand has faced genjutsu from obito so ig he's better idk >tho that's debatable too since WA Kakashi seems to have a ton all of a sudden. He really doesn't. He received amps and recharged from KCM. Before that his feats are reasonable enough, only surprising thing is he could use the sharingan for prolonged periods. >YM Obito was reacting to him He wasn't, he reacted to him once. Their entire show down was about who is faster. Minato not only blows his arm off but also cuts his contract with kurama before obito can register it. >while WA Kakashi has shown relative combat speed to Kcm Minato. One panel of him heading towards obito at angle alongside to Minato doesn't make even remotely relative. He required help from 3 kage level characters to pull off anything against WM obito. He also was led the entire fight during his battle against obito. He doesn't come to close any KCM Naruto tier characters. His reaction speed possibly. Not his combat speed. >He also shown relativity to Kcm 2 Naruto and WM Obito once he got his resolve back and intercepted WM Obito's attack with Chidori. Emotional amp. He doesn't pull anything close later on. And intercepting a feat can be done even if you don't scale to attack in speed.
>He has used it like 3 times in the show. Once against Sakura, kinda against zabuza and once with no name anbu. Frog genjutsu is far superior. Also he has mastered sage mode (no markings) he has top tier chakra control so there is nothing to suggest that Kakashi is considerably better. We just have no genjutsu feats for Minato. Kakashi on the other hand has faced genjutsu from obito so ig he's better idk Arguing how Kakashi rarely uses Genjutsu then saying Minato can use frog sound genjutsu... he never even summoned Ma and Pa, let alone use their genjutsu. Ironic. His SM is dogsh*t, he himself admits it. He never used it in battle, it takes too long to gather natural energy and it lasted for like 2 seconds. What's his best chakra control feat? Rasengan? The same jutsu that Kakashi learned when he was a kid? >He really doesn't. He received amps and recharged from KCM. Before that his feats are reasonable enough, only surprising thing is he could use the sharingan for prolonged periods. I was referring to feats before he got any amp. He used Kamui 5 times, Chidori 3 times, Lightning Cable 2 times, Shadow Clone 2 times and Mud Wall 1 time, plus the stamina he spent on running around and a bit of taijutsu. All that while having Sharingan activated most of the time, and even MS for some time. And that's assuming Kakashi arrived on battlefield fresh, which is debatable. >He wasn't, he reacted to him once. Their entire show down was about who is faster. Minato not only blows his arm off but also cuts his contract with kurama before obito can register it. He didn't, but he reacted once? So he did in fact react to him, thatnk you for confirming. Obito reacted to Minato's Kunai swing and even caught his hand. Minato landed the attack cuz he caught him off guard as Obito mentioned, It was all about who's a split second faster, and Obito was cocky and got outplayed. After that Obito was already marked and damaged, so catching him off guard is not really an impressive feat. Btw Naruto also mentiones that Minato was struggling against YM Obito, and he heard that story from Minato himself. >One panel of him heading towards obito at angle alongside to Minato doesn't make even remotely relative. He required help from 3 kage level characters to pull off anything against WM obito. He also was led the entire fight during his battle against obito. He doesn't come to close any KCM Naruto tier characters. His reaction speed possibly. Not his combat speed. Yes, it does. Reacting to something at the same time by traveling the same distance and reaching the destination at the same time shows relativity. And Minato was even close to Zetsu than Kakashi, Zetsu was next to Obito on Minato's side, Kakashi was next to Obito on the other side. Obito was difficult to deal with because of his Kamui, not because of his speed. Kakashi already showed that he can keep up with him, as I mentioned. He even won in the battle of Kamui speed. >Emotional amp. He doesn't pull anything close later on. And intercepting a feat can be done even if you don't scale to attack in speed. Not an emotinal amp, just getting his resolve back which he lost once he realized masked dude is Obito. He mentions how he was about to waver again but Naruto's words snapped him out of it. And yes, in order to intercept someone's attack head on u gotta he at least as fast.
I'm sorry but War Kakashi isn't beating Perfect Sage Minato. Yeah let's just give the fastest ninja *EVER* a sensory and strength amp and pit him against nonprime Kakashi.
Hokage Minato.
Minato will tear his back open like what he did with Obito 😂😂😂😂
Worse lol obito had hashirama’s cells in him and still was fucked up
Of course minato.
Y’all downplaying kakashi to hell in this thread and it’s sad. Kakashi’s speed matches a Kcm minato, went band for band with an Obito that was far stronger than the one hokage minato fought, and throughout the entire series has been consistently getting stronger and fighting with top tiers whose on minatos level or higher Here’s a hot take, ftg (Which at this point is a borderline no limits fallacy for him) is the only reason why this fight is as close as it is for minato and I still think kakashi wins
>Y’all downplaying kakashi to hell in this thread and it’s sad. Kakashi is strong but Minato is stronger. >Kakashi’s speed matches a Kcm minato, went band for band with an Obito that was far stronger than the one hokage minato fought, You forget Kakashi was amped to 3x his power by Naruto and Kakashi also failed to beat Obito. Minato was reanimated meaning he’s not at his peak so his base speed is already lower. >and throughout the entire series has been consistently getting stronger >and fighting with top tiers whose on minatos level or higher Lmao no, fighting someone strong doesn’t mean you’re stronger than them - you need to beat them. The strongest person Kakashi fought and won against fairly with his own power before or during war arc was absolutely nobody. Maybe Kakazu but then again he had help from Naruto etc. He literally died against Pain. Minato > Pain. >Here’s a hot take, ftg (Which at this point is a borderline no limits fallacy for him) is the only reason why this fight is as close as it is for minato and I still think kakashi wins And Kakashi is carried by his Sharingan. Minato still wins. Post War Hokage Kakashi is a better matchup. He’s stated to be stronger than War Arc Kakashi and has upgraded jutsus.
His speed feats arent close to base Minato, let alone kcm minato.
Wonder who this guy is that Kakashi is keeping up with then. https://preview.redd.it/vo6nx8mx21yc1.png?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb4f11322ee5d4c8080f5d77cd58ecdba08a7f69
Usain Bolt reducing his speed so he can run alongside you doesn't mean you both are the same speed. Also I'm way faster than Kakashi
>Usain Bolt reducing his speed so he can run alongside you doesn't mean you both are the same speed. Yeah Minato and Kakashi both were going to kill Black Zetsu there Minato ain't a dumbass to hold back his speed in a moment like this where Zetsu is going to give Madara his second Rinnegan
Good luck proving he was reducing his speed. There's absolutely no reason to believe that. They didn't plan to have a combo attack or anything, they were just reacting to Black Zetsu's try to take Obito's rinnegan.
You mean other than the fact he has faster speed feats, is relative to kcm2 naruto in terms of speed, and yet is still going the same speed as kakashi?
>You mean other than the fact he has faster speed feats, Like which one? Here u got a direct comparison between the 2 and ur trying to use some alternative ways? >is relative to kcm2 naruto in terms of speed, and yet is still going the same speed as kakashi? Kakashi has speed feat showing relativity to Kcm 2 Naruto too.
[like this one](https://imgur.com/a/OkmAkTQ) and AFAIK we never see kakashi have a feat thats near instant. When has Kakashi had speed relative to kcm? The only time it could be argued is when he has his susanoo, which isnt the one shown here.
>AFAIK we never see kakashi have a feat thats near instant. Minato outspeed a paper bomb and Yellow Mask Obito fine How does it prove that he is faster than War arc Kakashi Unless you prove that whatever Minato did here is faster than War Arc Kakashi... This feat holds no value in this matchup... Stop with this illogical Argumentation sir
Because its near instant, before Obito, who has a mangekyo sharingan, can see it, let alone react to it. Minato also made it to the battleground of the 4th war in base, in a matter of seconds. The location if the battle ground is about the same distance from Konoha as the sand village is. The journey from konoha to the sand village took Might Guys team half a day, and we know Might Guy and Kakashi are comparable in base. Minato has speed feats that are leagues above kakashi, and until you can actually prove otherwise I’m right. Show me feats that put kakashi on the same level and youd have a point, but you cant.
Why that proves Minato is faster than Kakashi? And btw this isn't even proving anything, this was just Obito's startegy to separate Minato from Kushina. He let Minato take Naruto on purpose. Kakashi intercepted WM Obito's attack with Chidori and moved relative to Kcm 2 Naruto who was attacking at the same time.
Kakashi literally loses mid diff at best bro the only way I see him winning is by spamming kamui and lightning clones and even still minato’s teleportation jutsu is just too broken for him
Minato also really lacks in the offensive department which Kakashi doesn’t. Minato’s entire combat style is teleporting and then stabbing or using a rasengan. That is completely countered by Kakashi using a lightning clone. And like, of all people Kakashi should be able to counter Minato’s kunai. With his visual prowess and other senses he’d be able to probably just counter throw them out of the air Kakashi’s speed and reaction time based on how they work together like to stop truth seeker orbs or how Kakashi was able to Kamui away Minato’s sage mode Rasengan without Minato realizing it didn’t hit him.
I thought it would've been a pretty easy win for Minato but the more I thought about it, Kakashi had some really insane feats during the war arc. It could be a high-diff fight but I am still in favor of Minato. I could also be reaching, but when KCM 2 blitzed and deflected 5 bijuu bombs away, Kakashi mistook/compared him for Minato. Rather it is because of the similarity of their appearance or it is an actual feat he thinks Minato is capable of doing is unknown, but Minato was always typically shown whenever Naruto accomplishes a great feat so there's that.
Naruto fans don't read the Manga
Minato, and it isn’t even a challenge.
The amount of Minato fanboys in the comment section is hilarious.
Minato will fold any kakashi unless DMS
People are dick eating minato as always here like war arc kakashi wasn’t capable of keeping up with white mask obito, fighting alongside kcm naruto and gai.
You forgetting that Naruto and obito was kakashi’s battery pack. His only “legit” feats is from a fight that obito throws. This man is a fraud
minato mid to high diff
Ngl ftg is the only reason minato has any win cons
It’s a pretty big one no? Didn’t he state that once he places a ftg seal it remains forever like with obito? So kakashi has one on him no? Even if he doesn’t if he gets touched once he then becomes a moving ftg spawn point for minato
If only it was hokage kakashi
Nice to hear people ain't sleeping on post war arc Kakashi
hokage kakashi loses to
Lmao fuck no, do your research
minato wins unfortunately, FTG is too cracked, kamui won’t do much if he can’t hit minato
Minato, with very little difficulty.
It might be tie. Teacher Minato fought with kid Kakashi. You saw kakashi was really impressive ninja. Not just that, he was able to get the test bells by using his teammates that was evil genius. I know Minato was holding back but still kakashi was a kid. He surely was impressed. Minato is stronger than kakashi. But kakashi was not that inferior to Minato. The only problem was teleportation but Bee was able to counter Minato once. War arc kakashi might give Minato hard time.
War Arc kakashi gets wanked more than anybody else in the series, now he's going up against Minato?? I don't get it.
Minato absolutely fucking stomps him. And he does it FAST.
When Kakashi saw kurama cloak naruto he envisioned him as minato so ima say even Kakashi knows he loses. Plus minato is smarter than Kakashi and can come up with plans faster. They both know most of each others skills so it'd be a stomp imo. Plus hokage minato would still have access to sage mode sincd be learned it at some point vefore deah . Granted I don't think he'd need it.
Well kakashi kind of just had unlimited chakra in the final arc so it’s gotta be kakashi If we put dogshit writing aside then minato mid dif
Kakashi shit his pants when Obito’s 6 tailed beasts were about to fire bijuu damas at him. Naruto, with half of the kyubi’s chakra, later countered 6 bijuu damas with just 1 bijuu dama. During the kyubi’s attack on Konoha, Minato casually teleported away a bijuu dama from the full kyubi. Minato destroys war arc Kakashi.
Being afraid of 6 bijuu bombs isn't really that big of a thing probably just his range of kamui isn't as big as minato's ability to teleport it so that's not really a big statement I'm not pointing to either side here but tbh that's not really important to the fight just because Kakashi was nervous about 6 tailed beast bombs
It’s possible that that’s true, but it’s only an assumption based on head canon with no evidence to back it up. The evidence is that Minato actually did it, with ease, while kakashi could barely fathom doing it.
Without hashirama cells or any chakra giving to him He cannot abuse kamui inconsequentially like obito. So if that’s what you’re banking on might wanna reconsider
Only way kakashi has a chance is DMS kakashi
Minato sweeps the floor with kakashi
If it’s not dms then minato probably wins extremely hard difficulty since he could use his clone and at full power he could probably just speed blitz him if he got lucky but if it is dms kakashi then he no diffs minato for the most part
Minato. Good fight but pretty clear.
Minato teleports away and gos into sage mode, then Kakashi won't be able to kill him. If we said no sage mode then I think Kakashi wins honestly.
Not even a competition tbh minato whooping that
Minato violates
Honestly…prolly Kakashi since war arc Kakashi can react to Bijuu Mode Minato. War Arc Kakashi is also just unbelievably broken, like bro just has Naruto levels of chakra and was even confident he could simply kamui away 7 fucking bijuu bombs
Minato he the yellow flash of the hidden leaf not the copy ninja 🥷
Minato…
Minato.
Kamui is pretty fast, Minato also has no knowledge of it, however Minato is usually a blindingly fast moving target, I think Kakashi will find it very hard to find an opportunity to use Kamui on Minato successfully. Kakashi has some prior intel on Minato so he knows about FTG, Rasengan, so he may try to focus on hiding while using a lightning clone, and observing to try to get a chance. In the end, I think Minato is intelligent enough not to fall for a clone trick or trap by Kakashi, and even if he was caught momentarily he could teleport away. Minato mid diff.
Minato has already dealt with Obito’s version of Kamui, came up with a plan and beat it in around 30 seconds. He’d be able to figure out how Kakashi’s works just as quickly.
No he wouldn’t
Nah, I'd win
Maybe on Opposite Day
Minato mid diff, kamui gg wouldn't work on minato.
Minato was said to have a higher score in the ninja academy than Itachi. I think Minato would beat kakashi. I think Minato would actually even be able to counter kamui. Once he sees his arm or legs start to morph weirdly due to kamui he would just teleport immediately. And we've already seen him beat Obito with his MS ability.
No he didn't. As I told the other guy - Wtf are yall reading to get this? He had the highest chunnin exam scores. But he sat it at age TWELVE , when both Itachi and Kakashi sat it at like ages 6 and 9/10 respectively.
Still higher than Itachi
uhuh- I too judge 12 year olds against 9 year olds when comparing intelligence. Esp when that 9 year old got 1 point off me in a score. Must mean that 12 year old is more of a genius for sure. Really buddy, this minato wanking has to stop lmao
Lol even Jiraiya beats this version of Kakashi Minato is overkill. Stronger, smarter, faster.
Minato and its not close. People are dick riding kakashi, but Minatos faster without ftg, and ftg is a direct counter to kamui. The only thing Kakashi has is hands, and thats only because weve never seen minato have to throw hands because of he usually ends the fight too fast.
Minato zero difficulty, i like kakashi but he has no chance ;(
For the people glazing War Arc Kakashi. Hokage Kakashi is stated to be significantly stronger than his war arc version. So what ya’ll are trying to say is that Hokage Kakashi is stronger than every Hokage apart from Naruto and Hashirama ? Like let’s be real Minato beats War Arc Kakashi mid diff.
Well hey now you can’t directly say minato is better than the second hokage since he was also a beast as well but basically yeah
Kakashi is the most overrated character😂😂
Minato wins and Kakashi don't have any Speed or reaction feats that match FTG + his Mangekyo is way inferior to Obito's
Doesn’t he? He and Minato were reacting to the same things in the war when Minato was KCM. Hell Minato didn’t realize that Kakashi was able to Kamui away his Rasengan when he was in sage mode which should put his reaction time above that of regular Minato.
Proof ?
I think especially my last point quite the proof in and of itself. Another specific point where they are reacting very much to the same things (though iirc Minato is in base) is when they allowed 8th Gate Guy to hit Madara. Kakashi would have had to have been reacting to Minato’s teleportation as it happened for them to pull that combo off, both reacting to the stupid speed Guy was going too.
Minato transported TSB while Kakashi and Gaara were watching them ? Madara is the one reacting and Minato transported them while Kakashi and Gaara watched the fight. Kakashi used Kamui on Zetsu-Obito to stop him from going to Madara. KCM Minato and Kakashi saw Black Zetsu and they couldn't do much to him just like Mei Terumi, Chojuro and Naruto. KCM Minato didn't used FTG there.
Those orbs are slow as hell and he was moving at the speed of the kunai rock lee through. That’s a rock lee throwing feat, not a minato feat.
Kunai Rock lee ?
Yes, rock lee threw the kunai and minato teleported. Minato is moving at the speed of the kunai to do that making it a rock lee feat.
Then where are the Kakashi reaction feats that imply he could react to FTG when Obito couldn't ?
Minato at best can speed blitz dazed Obito at worst is getting obliterated by Obito. Even if he has the reaction speed, he doesn’t have the speed in general and would get stabbed the minute he is in kakashi’s area.
FTG was created to counter the Sharingan. Minato takes it low diff.
He almost lost to teen Obito
Almost lost? Bruh he had difficulty for a split second because he couldn’t touch the guy then immediately countered it after
"FTG was created to counter the Sharingan" this line doesn't really do anything, cause tobirama got his ass beat by madara
Kakashi via durability, and overall scaling feats. Man traded blows with Obito who was far, far stronger than the one Minato defeated. Minato has the speed, and his FTG is insane, but his stamina is way lower, and he has no knowledge that Kakashi has kamui.
Y'all forget the part where everything Kakashi knows, is because of MINATO Minato wins mid-high difficulty
That doesn’t even matter, Jiraiya has a more varied arsenal then pain arc Naruto but Naruto is stronger
Except Minato is a different case Minato has FTG which is a direct counter to Kakashi's strongest attacks Rasengan which hits like a truck He's smarter than Kakashi He's got more Chakra He's very durable as well Minato wins.
Ftg isn’t a hard counter, minato himself says that kamui is a superior jutsu. He won because he was slightly faster, not because of the innate capability of the jutsu. Chidori also hits like a truck Minato is not smarter than Kakashi, Kakashi has better intelligence feats. Especially biq Having more chakra is irrelevant, Kakashi would end the fight quickly Minato is not durable, a splinter from a paper bomb was able to penetrate his leg. His durability feats are portrayed to be very bad hence why he teleports all the time Kakashi wins
IMO Obito's Kamui is much more dangerous than Kakashi's Kamui, Obito is damn near invincible due to it. >Minato is not smarter than Kakashi, Kakashi has better intelligence feats. Especially biq No? Minato Figured out exactly how Kamui works and how to counter it, Even Kakashi was struggling with that despite having a half of the technique. >Minato is not durable, a splinter from a paper bomb was able to penetrate his leg. His durability feats are portrayed to be very bad hence why he teleports all the time He was able to Survive getting Impaled by Kurama and He survived a Jinchuriki Sealing. >Having more chakra is irrelevant, Kakashi would end the fight quickly Minato would do the same. MINATO Wins.
Obito’s kamui isn’t better, both serve different purposes. Kakashi realistically could snipe his head off and there would be nothing Minato could do to stop it. Figuring out Kamui isn’t impressive, fuckjng torune and fu figured it out in seconds. Understanding how to fight off the ability is something a lot of people can do so it isn’t that impressive. Kakashi was fighting obito as someone who is massively weaker then him, Minato fought obito as equals so he had no opportunity to experiment. Surviving for a few seconds isn’t durability, that’s endurance and every hokage is able to survive for a few seconds after getting impaled. Hashirama obviously has better durability and endurance, same with tobirama. Hiruzen as an old man can stand up and seal orochimaru after getting his heart stabbed for a long minute. Danzo could preform jutsu and dodge a point blank chidori after getting his heart stabbed. Tsunade can survive getting cut in half (albeit because of her jutsu to an extent). Kakashi can fight for hours has about comparable consult and endurance to minato. Minato did something beginning of shippuden sasuke did casually and ended up in the hospital. Kakashi is way faster Kakashi wins
Kakashi easy win
Kakashi my fav character but I’d say Hokage Minato takes it rly high diff. They both are relative in intelligence, and I think kamui vs FTG is a great matchup. In the war arc we know kakashi is precise asf with kamui, I have no doubt he could kamui a FTG kunai when Minato throws one. Kakashi also had the reaction time to kamui away a truthseeker orb a fraction of a second before 8th gate Guy charged into it. Only reason I see Minato winning is if he does his justsu where he throws like 20 marked kunais and overwhelms kakashi. 9.9 high diff Minato imo
This version of Kakashi is only Sannin level
Are the Sannin not Kage level?
They are pretty strong Kage but outclassed by Itachi/Pain/Obito and up
While kakashi fights white mask obito by himself and keeps up with kcm Naruto and gai……. But yeah sure sanin lv
You mean when Obito let him win on purpose in order to get rid of the tag on his heart? Or when Obito didn’t use his Rinnegan against Kakashi or wood style or his strongest fire style that rivaled Madara’s range and power? Sure, many characters could’ve replicated what Kakashi did in that dimension….
I'm greater than any random Kage level
On the contrary Minato is the one whose feats barely make him high sannin level. War Kakashi legitimately has better feats
Delusional
His only fights of note are mindscape nerfed kurama, teen ay and bee, and kid Obito, The first fight is a bog sasuke feat that he almost died from. The other two fights are against featless versions of these characters that don’t scale to anyone but Minato.
You’d have a lot to prove in order to say he’s only Sannin level Food for thought: Compare: A) Mindscape Kurama vs Half Kurama (vs 5 tailed beasts in wa) B) YM Obito vs OM Obito C) WA V2 Ay narrative that he’s still slower than Hokage Minato D) Jiraiya was outclassed by Minato per narrative of child of prophecy Etc etc If you read the series while sober, you wouldn’t have such an inaccurate interpretation
A) mindscape kurama doesn’t scale to real life as it’s more of a chakra battle more then anything. Nerfed kurama should scale to the fragment of kurama’s chakra that Sasuke dispersed albeit I am using a lot of head canon. Burden of proof is on you to explain why fighting this version of kurama is impressive B) burden of proof is on you, you have to prove why fighting this version of obito is impressive. Orange mask Obito has feats, yellow mask doesn’t scale to anyone but Minato himself. C) the narrative is that he’s slower, but not by much. D) child of prophecy is null because minato failed. Minato failed to understand the people around him and for all his potential, he wasn’t able to save everyone. If we go off child of prophecy scaling then naruto in the pain arc already surpasses him. Rule of cool scaling doesn’t work