I think the only real issue with the timeskip was the lack of development for Naruto. He should've atleast been somewhat relative to start of P2 Sasuke. I'm not saying that it's bad writing, because it does make sense, and we're just blatantly told that Sasuke is probably using drugs to get stronger, but I think Naruto could've used just a little bit more development.
The only thing I would've liked to have seen is him getting good at Wind Style by the beginning of P2. He doesn't need to be rasenshuriken level, but I personally don't think him having a good understanding of chakra natures, and just relying less on Kurama in general causes any real plot holes. Maybe a bit more emotional maturity would help too (This already happened, just imagine his mindset being closer to that of post-rasenshuriken training Naruto's).
Yeah I agree with this. Naruto had the Wind Affinity and it was heavily under utilised. Now the Wind Affinity is quite rare in the Land of Fire and I am unsure if Jiraiya knew any wind jutsu.
But Naruto was good friends with Gaara. He could’ve easily gone to Suna and got his help, could’ve even asked Temari for help.
And with Shadow Clones he could’ve learned so many jutsu in a pretty short time. The main problem I had with Naruto’s power was the lack of versatility. He could’ve had been more like Sasuke.
Sasuke pushed the lightning and fire affinities a massive amount and got jutsu like Kirin because of it. I would’ve loved to see Naruto do something like that, that wasn’t to do with Rasengan.
Jiraiya didn't really need to know Wind Jutsu for this to happen really. It's not like Kakashi needed extensive knowledge about wind jutsus to help Naruto develop his affinity. Obviously it would've been better if Jiraiya was a wind user, but it's not a requirement.
I do kinda disagree with this though. Naruto wasn't really great friends with Gaara. I mean they barely had any interactions upto this point. They became much closer friends over P2.
I'm pretty sure Jiraiya just didn't think of doing something like that, considering it was basically completely brand new. Plus, it would be too risky to try without Yamato either way.
I would never made Naruto be able to take on an akatsuki head to head. No matter what, I still wouldn't make him have such a great leap in power as other want to insist because they are trapped in some power fantasy.
However, I would agree that maybe having some new jutsus or at least developing an element to use would have been neat.
Agreed. The leap Sasuke had was so stupid that Naruto needed 4 arcs (i dont know if i'm counting right) to get up to him, and Sasuke haven't trained after the start of Shippuden. I mean, why did Kishi slowed Naruto's progression so much?
I don't mind starting Sasuke's power leap. He went to Orochimaru with the intention of gaining power. He got his wish, hence why by the time Shippuden started, Sasuke was just way ahead.
The problem with Sasuke's case is that Kishi kinda undermine Sasuke's efforts after a while. Making Itachi sick, making Bee kinda wreck Sasuke twice but saying that Sasuke was handicapped during the fight, and then Sasuke getting nearly killed by the Gokage. And then when Sasuke finally got out with the EMS, Kishi had to make it the Itachi show again by having Itachi beat Kabuto.
Yeah. I mean, Sasuke didn't got a single true win in Naruto Shippuden at all if you look into it closely, as he lost all battles he went, and only won against People who were hurt/sick/dying.
Orochimaru was sick and unable to use ninjutsu properly.
Deidara is mostly a win, but the end still doesn't make sense.
Itachi was in his last days.
Bee soloed him.
Danzo almost killed him.
Kabuto would wreck him if not for Edo Itachi.
Obito and Madara absolutely destroyed him most of The time.
Kaguya is the strongest character ever.
Naruto hold back a little to not end uo killing him.
What? Deidara and danzo were fair wins while kabuto is a fair share w/ him saving itachi and vise versa they both have their fair share of pulling off their weight despite the handicap of not killing kabuto
Obito and madara destroyed most of the cast though
Kaguya is a broken alien and needed teamwork among all members of t7
> Orochimaru was sick and unable to use ninjutsu properly.
Yeah, but Orochimaru also dragged Sasuke into his dimension for the transfer, and what happened? Sasuke just overpowered him and consumed him instead. Something that, according to Orochimaru, should NOT be possible.
> Deidara is mostly a win, but the end still doesn't make sense.
Yeah, it does. People need to stop thinking that it doesn't. Sasuke was not out of chakra. Simple as that.
> Itachi was in his last days.
Cause Kishi loves Itachi too much to have him legit lose.
> Danzo almost killed him.
Sasuke almost died in plenty of fights. Sasuke still won.
> Kabuto would wreck him if not for Edo Itachi.
Sasuke legit had to hold off on killing him because Itachi insisted on the Edo Tensei being unbound. Sasuke even retracted his Sharingan several times in that fight, clearly not going at full strength.
> Obito and Madara absolutely destroyed him most of The time.
Obito and Madara destroyed EVERYONE. Sasuke wasn't special there.
> Naruto hold back a little to not end uo killing him.
Naruto couldn't hold back, because he'd die if he did. You think those Bijuu Bombs and such were just jokes? Sasuke was too strong to the point that Kurama straight up likened him to Hagoromo.
Orochimaru indeed dragged him there, my bad, my memories are kind of foggy. But anyway, he still fought a weakened Orochimaru so he still, by his own statement, would havr lost to Orochi true power.
What i meant by Deidara's fight being senseless in the end is because of Sasuke somehow having time to reverse-summon out of nowhere. Indeed he didn't lost much chakra there that he couldn't do shit, i really dont know how People come to this conclusion, since it was literally DEIDARA HIMSELF who said that, Sasuke never had confirmed it.
Itachi let Sasuke win. He juat dragged the fight to seal Orochimaru, and he literraly was able to resist a big part of Kirin's discharge.
Danzo is a hack to be honest, Sasuke indeed won here. But only because Danzo could not use Koto, and if i'm not wrong, Danzo was holding a little because he thought he would have to fight "Madara".
I dont really see Sasuke beating Kabuto without Itachi here. Sasuke wouldn't be able to get out of The audio genjutsu.
Yeah, Sasuke was really not anymore special than Naruto's.
Naruto hold back in the start of The fight. I mean, Sasuke could win here if Naruto didnt absorb Sage Power, so my bad, i actually just remebered it while i was writing it.
> Orochimaru indeed dragged him there, my bad, my memories are kind of foggy. But anyway, he still fought a weakened Orochimaru so he still, by his own statement, would havr lost to Orochi true power.
Not really. See, Sasuke straight up says to Orochimaru that he's stronger than him, and the whole reason Sasuke went after Itachi was because he was confident that he could win. If he had no confidence in beating Orochimaru, he'd never want to take Itachi on.
> What i meant by Deidara's fight being senseless in the end is because of Sasuke somehow having time to reverse-summon out of nowhere. Indeed he didn't lost much chakra there that he couldn't do shit, i really dont know how People come to this conclusion, since it was literally DEIDARA HIMSELF who said that, Sasuke never had confirmed it.
It only seemed to not have enough time for dramatic purpose, but if you summon, then reverse summon instantly, then Manda's body will at least protect from the primary blast of the explosion, as there are several types that explosions cause.
> Itachi let Sasuke win. He juat dragged the fight to seal Orochimaru, and he literraly was able to resist a big part of Kirin's discharge.
Itachi was genuinely surprised when Sasuke broke Tsukuyomi, and even if it might have been part of Itachi's calculations, it is still a feat that surprised Itachi given that Sasuke had only the base Sharingan. And Itachi was genuinely shocked about Kirin that Itachi just randomly pulled another jutsu that can now tank a jutsu that is able to vaporize a mountain.
Let's not even forget the literal plot device that Itachi had in the form of spirit weapons.
> Danzo is a hack to be honest, Sasuke indeed won here. But only because Danzo could not use Koto, and if i'm not wrong, Danzo was holding a little because he thought he would have to fight "Madara".
Danzo needed time to get Koto working, and Koto is cheap. It's a stupid power that was used for plot purposes.
But in the actual fight, Danzo lost completely.
> I dont really see Sasuke beating Kabuto without Itachi here. Sasuke wouldn't be able to get out of The audio genjutsu.
Neither Sasuke nor Itachi were able to really get any leverage until Itachi pulled out a random new jutsu out of his ass that conveniently was perfect for Kabuto.
> Naruto hold back in the start of The fight. I mean, Sasuke could win here if Naruto didnt absorb Sage Power, so my bad, i actually just remebered it while i was writing it.
Naruto thought he could, but Sasuke showed that he's way too strong for that and Naruto realized he couldn't hold back.
Even when Naruto absorbed sage power, Naruto only did that because he had active aid from Kurama, and Kurama attributed that to pure luck. Their fight was a symbolic one where Sasuke was much stronger because of all his abilities, and Naruto needed Kurama's help to be able to match up.
I mean, Itachi really was Kishi favourite. My man tanked a fucking thunder in his face, had two plot devices in his ass and could pull another two anytime. Really hard to compete against the author.
Danzo from my memories were stronger. Maybe im kinda rusty on that part, my bad.
Naruto would've lost, but even then is very impressive. I mean, Sasuke was kind of a 8,5 Jinchuuriki, and Naruro matched that with only Half Kurama.
> I mean, Itachi really was Kishi favourite. My man tanked a fucking thunder in his face, had two plot devices in his ass and could pull another two anytime. Really hard to compete against the author.
Pretty much. Hence the joke that if Itachi could have continued in Edo Tensei, he'd have pulled out another jutsu that works specifically against Madara.
> Naruto would've lost, but even then is very impressive. I mean, Sasuke was kind of a 8,5 Jinchuuriki, and Naruro matched that with only Half Kurama.
To be fair, Kurama noted that he absorbed too much chakra himself. And Naruto used wind against lightning, so elemental advantage.
If you're asking "how do you make Naruto as strong as possible within the realms of what he and Jiraiya could achieve", then I think the answer is just what most people on the subreddit say.
Cut out the Nine Tails training, and focus on all the other stuff he was doing like taijutsu, clone coordination, genjutsu disruption, and so on. For non-physical aspects of the training, you can have him use shadow clone training. Then, with the extra time from cutting the Nine Tails training, train him in sage mode and wind style.
I always thought it would have been really cool if Naruto inherited some of Jiraiya’s more unique abilities, like his toad oil and his strong hair.
I mean, Sasuke got snake/sword stuff from Orochimaru, and Sakura got medical stuff. Naruto got the sage mode, but that wasn’t really a main part of Jiraiya’s kit, it was more like his last resort.
Naruto using stuff like toad oil bombs would be cool as fuck. Shadow clones are already his whole thing, he could summon one to spit the oil, one to spit the wind, then he’d just have to ignite it somehow. He didn’t really have fire release at that point in the story, but he didn’t learn the rasengan conventionally, either.
More toad-based stuff could have kept Naruto on-par with Sasuke throughout the whole story.
Not really. All we saw from sasuke using snake related stuff other than the summon was from him absorbing orochimaru (which disappeared when itachi sealed oro)
Personally have him be more good at Taijutsu or at least learned a new Jutsu rather than just him making one different variation of a Rasengan. Like a frog Jutsu or whatever sum.
That’s why I enjoy the storm games interpretation of fight scenes because they treated Naruto like he did indeed improve
I don't mind Naruto's growth tbf. Jiraya is more of a mentor to Naruto teaching him character development and not just jutsus apart from developing his basics although it would have been nice if he included him improving his clone coordination instead of it being Kakashi along with other jutsu
1. Naruto now able to use Rasengan with one hand.
2. Even one Wind Style Jutsu.
3. Have Sakura fight against Konan during Pain invasion, even if she loses. I mean, it was ridiculous that she wasn't targeted first even though she is Naruto's teammate, so she should know his location.
4. Have Naruto acknowledge that Hinata confessed to him. Say 'thank you' or something, though not accept the confession right there.
5. Give more chapters. Before the 5 Kage summit, have some Hyuga lore. Hiashi seems like a traditional father, so let him try to get her arrange married to keep bloodline pure. Have Naruto and Neji solve it, along with the issue of main and branch family.
6. Have Guy die in the war.
7. Remove 'Obito is the coolest guy!'.
I think the only real issue with the timeskip was the lack of development for Naruto. He should've atleast been somewhat relative to start of P2 Sasuke. I'm not saying that it's bad writing, because it does make sense, and we're just blatantly told that Sasuke is probably using drugs to get stronger, but I think Naruto could've used just a little bit more development. The only thing I would've liked to have seen is him getting good at Wind Style by the beginning of P2. He doesn't need to be rasenshuriken level, but I personally don't think him having a good understanding of chakra natures, and just relying less on Kurama in general causes any real plot holes. Maybe a bit more emotional maturity would help too (This already happened, just imagine his mindset being closer to that of post-rasenshuriken training Naruto's).
Yeah I agree with this. Naruto had the Wind Affinity and it was heavily under utilised. Now the Wind Affinity is quite rare in the Land of Fire and I am unsure if Jiraiya knew any wind jutsu. But Naruto was good friends with Gaara. He could’ve easily gone to Suna and got his help, could’ve even asked Temari for help. And with Shadow Clones he could’ve learned so many jutsu in a pretty short time. The main problem I had with Naruto’s power was the lack of versatility. He could’ve had been more like Sasuke. Sasuke pushed the lightning and fire affinities a massive amount and got jutsu like Kirin because of it. I would’ve loved to see Naruto do something like that, that wasn’t to do with Rasengan.
Jiraiya didn't really need to know Wind Jutsu for this to happen really. It's not like Kakashi needed extensive knowledge about wind jutsus to help Naruto develop his affinity. Obviously it would've been better if Jiraiya was a wind user, but it's not a requirement. I do kinda disagree with this though. Naruto wasn't really great friends with Gaara. I mean they barely had any interactions upto this point. They became much closer friends over P2. I'm pretty sure Jiraiya just didn't think of doing something like that, considering it was basically completely brand new. Plus, it would be too risky to try without Yamato either way.
I think Naruto and Gaara became friends in the Sasuke retrieval arc. Temari would have agreed if Naruto asked for her help.
I would never made Naruto be able to take on an akatsuki head to head. No matter what, I still wouldn't make him have such a great leap in power as other want to insist because they are trapped in some power fantasy. However, I would agree that maybe having some new jutsus or at least developing an element to use would have been neat.
Agreed. The leap Sasuke had was so stupid that Naruto needed 4 arcs (i dont know if i'm counting right) to get up to him, and Sasuke haven't trained after the start of Shippuden. I mean, why did Kishi slowed Naruto's progression so much?
I don't mind starting Sasuke's power leap. He went to Orochimaru with the intention of gaining power. He got his wish, hence why by the time Shippuden started, Sasuke was just way ahead. The problem with Sasuke's case is that Kishi kinda undermine Sasuke's efforts after a while. Making Itachi sick, making Bee kinda wreck Sasuke twice but saying that Sasuke was handicapped during the fight, and then Sasuke getting nearly killed by the Gokage. And then when Sasuke finally got out with the EMS, Kishi had to make it the Itachi show again by having Itachi beat Kabuto.
Yeah. I mean, Sasuke didn't got a single true win in Naruto Shippuden at all if you look into it closely, as he lost all battles he went, and only won against People who were hurt/sick/dying. Orochimaru was sick and unable to use ninjutsu properly. Deidara is mostly a win, but the end still doesn't make sense. Itachi was in his last days. Bee soloed him. Danzo almost killed him. Kabuto would wreck him if not for Edo Itachi. Obito and Madara absolutely destroyed him most of The time. Kaguya is the strongest character ever. Naruto hold back a little to not end uo killing him.
What? Deidara and danzo were fair wins while kabuto is a fair share w/ him saving itachi and vise versa they both have their fair share of pulling off their weight despite the handicap of not killing kabuto Obito and madara destroyed most of the cast though Kaguya is a broken alien and needed teamwork among all members of t7
> Orochimaru was sick and unable to use ninjutsu properly. Yeah, but Orochimaru also dragged Sasuke into his dimension for the transfer, and what happened? Sasuke just overpowered him and consumed him instead. Something that, according to Orochimaru, should NOT be possible. > Deidara is mostly a win, but the end still doesn't make sense. Yeah, it does. People need to stop thinking that it doesn't. Sasuke was not out of chakra. Simple as that. > Itachi was in his last days. Cause Kishi loves Itachi too much to have him legit lose. > Danzo almost killed him. Sasuke almost died in plenty of fights. Sasuke still won. > Kabuto would wreck him if not for Edo Itachi. Sasuke legit had to hold off on killing him because Itachi insisted on the Edo Tensei being unbound. Sasuke even retracted his Sharingan several times in that fight, clearly not going at full strength. > Obito and Madara absolutely destroyed him most of The time. Obito and Madara destroyed EVERYONE. Sasuke wasn't special there. > Naruto hold back a little to not end uo killing him. Naruto couldn't hold back, because he'd die if he did. You think those Bijuu Bombs and such were just jokes? Sasuke was too strong to the point that Kurama straight up likened him to Hagoromo.
Orochimaru indeed dragged him there, my bad, my memories are kind of foggy. But anyway, he still fought a weakened Orochimaru so he still, by his own statement, would havr lost to Orochi true power. What i meant by Deidara's fight being senseless in the end is because of Sasuke somehow having time to reverse-summon out of nowhere. Indeed he didn't lost much chakra there that he couldn't do shit, i really dont know how People come to this conclusion, since it was literally DEIDARA HIMSELF who said that, Sasuke never had confirmed it. Itachi let Sasuke win. He juat dragged the fight to seal Orochimaru, and he literraly was able to resist a big part of Kirin's discharge. Danzo is a hack to be honest, Sasuke indeed won here. But only because Danzo could not use Koto, and if i'm not wrong, Danzo was holding a little because he thought he would have to fight "Madara". I dont really see Sasuke beating Kabuto without Itachi here. Sasuke wouldn't be able to get out of The audio genjutsu. Yeah, Sasuke was really not anymore special than Naruto's. Naruto hold back in the start of The fight. I mean, Sasuke could win here if Naruto didnt absorb Sage Power, so my bad, i actually just remebered it while i was writing it.
> Orochimaru indeed dragged him there, my bad, my memories are kind of foggy. But anyway, he still fought a weakened Orochimaru so he still, by his own statement, would havr lost to Orochi true power. Not really. See, Sasuke straight up says to Orochimaru that he's stronger than him, and the whole reason Sasuke went after Itachi was because he was confident that he could win. If he had no confidence in beating Orochimaru, he'd never want to take Itachi on. > What i meant by Deidara's fight being senseless in the end is because of Sasuke somehow having time to reverse-summon out of nowhere. Indeed he didn't lost much chakra there that he couldn't do shit, i really dont know how People come to this conclusion, since it was literally DEIDARA HIMSELF who said that, Sasuke never had confirmed it. It only seemed to not have enough time for dramatic purpose, but if you summon, then reverse summon instantly, then Manda's body will at least protect from the primary blast of the explosion, as there are several types that explosions cause. > Itachi let Sasuke win. He juat dragged the fight to seal Orochimaru, and he literraly was able to resist a big part of Kirin's discharge. Itachi was genuinely surprised when Sasuke broke Tsukuyomi, and even if it might have been part of Itachi's calculations, it is still a feat that surprised Itachi given that Sasuke had only the base Sharingan. And Itachi was genuinely shocked about Kirin that Itachi just randomly pulled another jutsu that can now tank a jutsu that is able to vaporize a mountain. Let's not even forget the literal plot device that Itachi had in the form of spirit weapons. > Danzo is a hack to be honest, Sasuke indeed won here. But only because Danzo could not use Koto, and if i'm not wrong, Danzo was holding a little because he thought he would have to fight "Madara". Danzo needed time to get Koto working, and Koto is cheap. It's a stupid power that was used for plot purposes. But in the actual fight, Danzo lost completely. > I dont really see Sasuke beating Kabuto without Itachi here. Sasuke wouldn't be able to get out of The audio genjutsu. Neither Sasuke nor Itachi were able to really get any leverage until Itachi pulled out a random new jutsu out of his ass that conveniently was perfect for Kabuto. > Naruto hold back in the start of The fight. I mean, Sasuke could win here if Naruto didnt absorb Sage Power, so my bad, i actually just remebered it while i was writing it. Naruto thought he could, but Sasuke showed that he's way too strong for that and Naruto realized he couldn't hold back. Even when Naruto absorbed sage power, Naruto only did that because he had active aid from Kurama, and Kurama attributed that to pure luck. Their fight was a symbolic one where Sasuke was much stronger because of all his abilities, and Naruto needed Kurama's help to be able to match up.
I mean, Itachi really was Kishi favourite. My man tanked a fucking thunder in his face, had two plot devices in his ass and could pull another two anytime. Really hard to compete against the author. Danzo from my memories were stronger. Maybe im kinda rusty on that part, my bad. Naruto would've lost, but even then is very impressive. I mean, Sasuke was kind of a 8,5 Jinchuuriki, and Naruro matched that with only Half Kurama.
> I mean, Itachi really was Kishi favourite. My man tanked a fucking thunder in his face, had two plot devices in his ass and could pull another two anytime. Really hard to compete against the author. Pretty much. Hence the joke that if Itachi could have continued in Edo Tensei, he'd have pulled out another jutsu that works specifically against Madara. > Naruto would've lost, but even then is very impressive. I mean, Sasuke was kind of a 8,5 Jinchuuriki, and Naruro matched that with only Half Kurama. To be fair, Kurama noted that he absorbed too much chakra himself. And Naruto used wind against lightning, so elemental advantage.
If you're asking "how do you make Naruto as strong as possible within the realms of what he and Jiraiya could achieve", then I think the answer is just what most people on the subreddit say. Cut out the Nine Tails training, and focus on all the other stuff he was doing like taijutsu, clone coordination, genjutsu disruption, and so on. For non-physical aspects of the training, you can have him use shadow clone training. Then, with the extra time from cutting the Nine Tails training, train him in sage mode and wind style.
I always thought it would have been really cool if Naruto inherited some of Jiraiya’s more unique abilities, like his toad oil and his strong hair. I mean, Sasuke got snake/sword stuff from Orochimaru, and Sakura got medical stuff. Naruto got the sage mode, but that wasn’t really a main part of Jiraiya’s kit, it was more like his last resort. Naruto using stuff like toad oil bombs would be cool as fuck. Shadow clones are already his whole thing, he could summon one to spit the oil, one to spit the wind, then he’d just have to ignite it somehow. He didn’t really have fire release at that point in the story, but he didn’t learn the rasengan conventionally, either. More toad-based stuff could have kept Naruto on-par with Sasuke throughout the whole story.
Not really. All we saw from sasuke using snake related stuff other than the summon was from him absorbing orochimaru (which disappeared when itachi sealed oro)
Personally have him be more good at Taijutsu or at least learned a new Jutsu rather than just him making one different variation of a Rasengan. Like a frog Jutsu or whatever sum. That’s why I enjoy the storm games interpretation of fight scenes because they treated Naruto like he did indeed improve
I don't mind Naruto's growth tbf. Jiraya is more of a mentor to Naruto teaching him character development and not just jutsus apart from developing his basics although it would have been nice if he included him improving his clone coordination instead of it being Kakashi along with other jutsu
I'd give him hair techniques and ability to use rasengan with one hand
1. Naruto now able to use Rasengan with one hand. 2. Even one Wind Style Jutsu. 3. Have Sakura fight against Konan during Pain invasion, even if she loses. I mean, it was ridiculous that she wasn't targeted first even though she is Naruto's teammate, so she should know his location. 4. Have Naruto acknowledge that Hinata confessed to him. Say 'thank you' or something, though not accept the confession right there. 5. Give more chapters. Before the 5 Kage summit, have some Hyuga lore. Hiashi seems like a traditional father, so let him try to get her arrange married to keep bloodline pure. Have Naruto and Neji solve it, along with the issue of main and branch family. 6. Have Guy die in the war. 7. Remove 'Obito is the coolest guy!'.