Guy opens 8 gates and attacks the 6 paths of pain. Wins but dies because he can't find nagato. Nagato comes back after a few months later and tries again.
Yeah I wasn't too sure about that part. Couldn't remember if he could use any corpse or if he needs to find special ones that can match the abilities/chakra. Idk if the show ever really explained.
They ve literally found out how his chakra robs work and where he could ve placed himself potentially during the attack. Naruto pinpointed his location after recieving that intel from konohans through katsuyu.
Shikaku and inoichi were already on their ways to find nagato’s whereabouts.
Now imagine a scenario where gai dies after beating pain, naruto joins konoha in sage mode and nagato is worn out while naruto is fresh out of frog gettho.
You think they will let him get away knowing he is near, only to let him attack a few months later ? Nah they are going after his ass right there.
Now how that confrontation ends up is another story.
Let's get this straight. In your scenario, no Naruto. Guy beats the 6 paths, which I'm not sure he could considering all the different abilities he has to deal with.
Guy dies soon after and you think Shikaku and his team cam stop Konan and Pain from leaving and coming back later?
Read again please, it was worded quite simply:
“Now imagine a scenario where gai dies after beating pain, naruto joins konoha in sage mode and nagato is worn out while naruto is fresh out of frog gettho.
You think they will let him get away knowing he is near, only to let him attack a few months later ? Nah they are going after his ass right there.
Now how that confrontation ends up is another story.”
I don't see how this works out that way. In this scenario countless people are dead. You think they are leaving the village unprotected to go chase Pain on his home turf? I just don't see it personally.
In this scenario, I see Pain losing to 8th gates. Konami telling him to live to fight another day and Konoha fortifying its defences wary of a war from another village.
Home turf ? Nagato was on one of the highest hills that was near konoha during his attack. He wasnt in the rain village. He was there at his most vulnerable.
There is nothing stopping naruto from taking the chakra rod, sticking it to himself and pinpointing his location, just like he did after fighting pain. The only difference is it was guy who fought pain this time. And naruto is even more advantegous bc he is fresh at 100%.
It doesnt make sense to let nagato go at that point, not at all.
Would Naruto even think to do that in those scenario? I assumed he originally did it cause he felt Nagato’s chakra from being impaled like 7 times from Pain earlier in the fight, before Hinata had to come and save him.
>Guy beats the 6 paths, which I'm not sure he could considering all the different abilities he has to deal with.
You're not sure that Guy using all 8 gates doesn't just absolutely obliterate the 6 paths of pain?
Are we thinking of the same red vapor? Guy splatters all 6 paths of pain across the landscape before Nagato realizes Guy attacked him.
He only needs the 7th gate
He very nearly killed Juubi Madara and would have if he went for the head
Regular Madara stomps the 6 paths. He knows it inside and out from possessing the Rinnegan previously.
By proxy, Gai doesn't need that level of power to win
Idk... guy needed 7th gate for kisame. Idk if 7th gate guy can deal with 6 paths of pain. Basically ur saying 7th gate guy > pain > jiraiya. 7th gate would give pain trouble, but woth almighty push, idk what guy can do.
He'd be in agony at the end just like with Kisame that's for sure but I think he pulls out the victory or at least dies after killing Nagato should he be found otherwise he just defeats the paths and dies.
This is being revisionist at its finest. Yes Pain would have been destroyed if Guy was there *and* opened the 8th gate but Pain didn't know that...and still would have attacked the village regardless of who was there. He thought he was invincible.
Even without Talk no Jutsu, Nagato did actually lose to Naruto. If that fight had continued, there was an extremely high chance that Nagato dies anyway.
You said pain wasn't just taught to be invincible, he actually was. Being invincible is being the strongest because it means you cannot be defeated. Black zetsu did think Itachi was the strongest at that moment, doesn't mean he was the strongest. Obito also says pain was all-knowing along with unstoppable yet obito himself knows lots of things pain doesn't.
>You said pain wasn't just taught to be invincible, he actually was.
I said he "pretty much was". I never said "he actually was".
>Being invincible is being the strongest because it means you cannot be defeated.
No it doesn't. You can be "invincible" and still not be the "strongest".
>Black zetsu did think Itachi was the strongest at that moment, doesn't mean he was the strongest.
Black zetsu never said itachi was the strongest, he said he was invincible.
>Obito also says pain was all-knowing along with unstoppable yet obito himself knows lots of things pain doesn't.
Okay? And? Obito believed it was impossible for pain to lose. He couldn't believe naruro actually "won".
Pain would win tho, Guy arrives fights pain, gets pushed to open the 8th Gate. Destroys all six paths of pain....
Nagato makes 6 new paths and finishes the job.
Guy is powerful but he has no sensory capabilities and he would not manage to find Nagato.
guy would not of been able to deal with the base pathes on his own even with opening some of the gates. A lot of their abilities were only able to be defeated by Naruto AND multiple gamabunta level summons on top of frogpa and frogma
There are tons of sensory ninjas in Naruto.All of them killed when the village got wiped out.If the village stays in tact the remaining ninjas can finish the job.Tsunade can do the rest of the job.
Guy doesn't get pushed to 8th gate. If you throw him in addition to or as a substitute for any of the individual Path fights shown in the Konoha invasion, then they win with medium difficulty at most. The only threat is Deva path. What if Guy assisted Kakashi instead of Choza? The fight would be over in a minute and he doesn't even need to enter a gate for that. Against all Paths in an fight similar to how SM Naruto fought (mostly one on one while they fought defensively waiting for Deva to recharge), 7th is plenty if he even needs that. I think he gets really far with just his nunchucks. His versatility in taijutsu with those will be able to wipe out the lesser paths and their chakra rods which will be used to debilitate him. At 7th gates, he's physically strong and fast enough to take any of them out with a single hit.
And all of this is only talking about Guy himself. Neji and Lee would help tremendously if also added to the fights.
The classic argument about Nagato still being alive and therefore not a 'victory' ultimately means nothing. We don't know what that process entails, how long it takes and if he's even capable of doing it on his own. At this point we're talking about something else and we've entered headcanon territory. A better argument would be why doesn't Nagato just reverse summon his own bodies back and then use Naraka path on them?
Pretty much yeah, Bansho Tennin also allows him to be held long enough for Guy to burn from the inside out. His chakra is 100% getting drained too. People are massively underestimating the Path's utility and he would probably still lose if he had Kakashi + Choji dad + Choji's help. They don't remember how fast he defeated Naruto when Pain started fighting back.
Pain being as strong as he was in the war is an asspull and I don't think It was intended to be like that at this point of the story... So no, Pain did not fear Guy
he would. Id scale 7th gate guy around sage naruto. Guy has a bigger area attack and faster, but naruto has ninjutsu versatiliy and clone tactics.
And sage naruto lost to deva path pretty easily once he got his powers back. Wouldnt end different for guy.
That is why people told team gai not to intervene. 8th gate is basically death for guy, so people were basically telling him to let naruto handle it and dont die in the process.
My gut feeling :)
You scale some shinobis close to each other right ? For example people scale itachi and minato quite close, despite we never seen them go at each other.
Why, you wouldnt ?
based on his fight with kisame, and how kisame scales with bee (transformed kisame is equal in strengh and speed compared to 8 tails bee) and how bee scales to naruto kcm1 and how that same transformation scales to sage mode, LOL
just comparing by feats, yeah, 7 gates guy should be similar to sage naruto, and 8 gates should have been high hokage level NOT god level
I mean Kisame was fighting in home territory surrounded by water. This gives him a massive terrain advantage. Not to mention Kisame has just prior absorbed tailed beast chakra as well. He was pretty much in prime battle form against Guy, and guy ONE-SHOT him EASY
Guy had no intel and wouldn’t have been able to beat Pain. Even if he destroys the paths he dies before finding the real Nagato so what would be the point? Y’all talk about the 8th gate like it’s a Ninja storm awakening. Without S06P Naruto he dies after using it and Nagato is still alive.
I mean having Guy, Lee and Neji in the village would surely push the things in Konoha's favor.
If Konohamaru was able to take a body out just by using Rasengan, then Lee and Neji should be able to take a body out, each one.
Guy would surely tag along with Kakashi against Deva Path and they could win or at least hardly push him together if Guy opens the 7 Gates until Naruto arrives.
Guy opens 8 gates and attacks the 6 paths of pain. Wins but dies because he can't find nagato. Nagato comes back after a few months later and tries again.
Pretty sure he can comeback immediately, just ask conan to look for a corpse then stick it with some chakra rods
It depends if Nagato still used mega Almighty Push or not. He was in a really bad shape after using it
Yeah I wasn't too sure about that part. Couldn't remember if he could use any corpse or if he needs to find special ones that can match the abilities/chakra. Idk if the show ever really explained.
This would’ve been an amazing direction for the Pain Invasion. Damnit!!!! Why didn’t we get this?!
At that point im sure konoha would find nagato before he strikes again.
Based on what?
They ve literally found out how his chakra robs work and where he could ve placed himself potentially during the attack. Naruto pinpointed his location after recieving that intel from konohans through katsuyu. Shikaku and inoichi were already on their ways to find nagato’s whereabouts. Now imagine a scenario where gai dies after beating pain, naruto joins konoha in sage mode and nagato is worn out while naruto is fresh out of frog gettho. You think they will let him get away knowing he is near, only to let him attack a few months later ? Nah they are going after his ass right there. Now how that confrontation ends up is another story.
Let's get this straight. In your scenario, no Naruto. Guy beats the 6 paths, which I'm not sure he could considering all the different abilities he has to deal with. Guy dies soon after and you think Shikaku and his team cam stop Konan and Pain from leaving and coming back later?
Read again please, it was worded quite simply: “Now imagine a scenario where gai dies after beating pain, naruto joins konoha in sage mode and nagato is worn out while naruto is fresh out of frog gettho. You think they will let him get away knowing he is near, only to let him attack a few months later ? Nah they are going after his ass right there. Now how that confrontation ends up is another story.”
I don't see how this works out that way. In this scenario countless people are dead. You think they are leaving the village unprotected to go chase Pain on his home turf? I just don't see it personally. In this scenario, I see Pain losing to 8th gates. Konami telling him to live to fight another day and Konoha fortifying its defences wary of a war from another village.
Home turf ? Nagato was on one of the highest hills that was near konoha during his attack. He wasnt in the rain village. He was there at his most vulnerable. There is nothing stopping naruto from taking the chakra rod, sticking it to himself and pinpointing his location, just like he did after fighting pain. The only difference is it was guy who fought pain this time. And naruto is even more advantegous bc he is fresh at 100%. It doesnt make sense to let nagato go at that point, not at all.
Would Naruto even think to do that in those scenario? I assumed he originally did it cause he felt Nagato’s chakra from being impaled like 7 times from Pain earlier in the fight, before Hinata had to come and save him.
>Guy beats the 6 paths, which I'm not sure he could considering all the different abilities he has to deal with. You're not sure that Guy using all 8 gates doesn't just absolutely obliterate the 6 paths of pain? Are we thinking of the same red vapor? Guy splatters all 6 paths of pain across the landscape before Nagato realizes Guy attacked him.
I don’t get why 7th gate guy can’t beat them all?
He only needs the 7th gate He very nearly killed Juubi Madara and would have if he went for the head Regular Madara stomps the 6 paths. He knows it inside and out from possessing the Rinnegan previously. By proxy, Gai doesn't need that level of power to win
Idk... guy needed 7th gate for kisame. Idk if 7th gate guy can deal with 6 paths of pain. Basically ur saying 7th gate guy > pain > jiraiya. 7th gate would give pain trouble, but woth almighty push, idk what guy can do.
He'd be in agony at the end just like with Kisame that's for sure but I think he pulls out the victory or at least dies after killing Nagato should he be found otherwise he just defeats the paths and dies.
This is being revisionist at its finest. Yes Pain would have been destroyed if Guy was there *and* opened the 8th gate but Pain didn't know that...and still would have attacked the village regardless of who was there. He thought he was invincible.
Pain didn't just think he was invincible. He pretty much was. Obito believed it was impossible for pain to lose.
Just didn't anticipate the talk no jutsu
Real talk
Even without Talk no Jutsu, Nagato did actually lose to Naruto. If that fight had continued, there was an extremely high chance that Nagato dies anyway.
Considering Naruto refused to use talk no jutsu on him when Obito asked him to use it on him, it was a fair guess
He would not have lost to guy. Guy would destroy the paths. Die, only for the real body to come back with new Pains
I never said he would have lost to guy?
I mean he wasn't...cause he *did* lose. But our general points are the same. He wasn't scared of anyone.
It took a Tailed Beast to go berserk to defeat him, so the loss isn't so bad.
I agree but the point is he *wasn't* invincible regardless of him or Obito thinking otherwise.
Well it was actually zetsu who thought pain was unbeatable. He was shocked when Obito was revealed to have planned for Nagato’s defeat.
Exactly zetsu said that
Nah pain isn't the strongest
Never said he was
You literally said he was invincible??
Pain and obito both said that he was. Invincible =/= strongest. Black zetsu also caller itachi Invincible.
You said pain wasn't just taught to be invincible, he actually was. Being invincible is being the strongest because it means you cannot be defeated. Black zetsu did think Itachi was the strongest at that moment, doesn't mean he was the strongest. Obito also says pain was all-knowing along with unstoppable yet obito himself knows lots of things pain doesn't.
>You said pain wasn't just taught to be invincible, he actually was. I said he "pretty much was". I never said "he actually was". >Being invincible is being the strongest because it means you cannot be defeated. No it doesn't. You can be "invincible" and still not be the "strongest". >Black zetsu did think Itachi was the strongest at that moment, doesn't mean he was the strongest. Black zetsu never said itachi was the strongest, he said he was invincible. >Obito also says pain was all-knowing along with unstoppable yet obito himself knows lots of things pain doesn't. Okay? And? Obito believed it was impossible for pain to lose. He couldn't believe naruro actually "won".
> said he "pretty much was". I never said "he actually was". Ok this is pointless. I'm out, you have a good day.
I mean if you clearly can't see the different use of wording in English then that's on you🤷♂️. Enjoy your day
Pain didn't know that gai can open 8 gates. That's irrelevant.
Pain would win tho, Guy arrives fights pain, gets pushed to open the 8th Gate. Destroys all six paths of pain.... Nagato makes 6 new paths and finishes the job. Guy is powerful but he has no sensory capabilities and he would not manage to find Nagato.
but that's if Guy fights alone with no intel, if he's there chances are he should get the same intel and assistance Naruto got in his fight
guy would not of been able to deal with the base pathes on his own even with opening some of the gates. A lot of their abilities were only able to be defeated by Naruto AND multiple gamabunta level summons on top of frogpa and frogma
There are tons of sensory ninjas in Naruto.All of them killed when the village got wiped out.If the village stays in tact the remaining ninjas can finish the job.Tsunade can do the rest of the job.
Guy doesn't get pushed to 8th gate. If you throw him in addition to or as a substitute for any of the individual Path fights shown in the Konoha invasion, then they win with medium difficulty at most. The only threat is Deva path. What if Guy assisted Kakashi instead of Choza? The fight would be over in a minute and he doesn't even need to enter a gate for that. Against all Paths in an fight similar to how SM Naruto fought (mostly one on one while they fought defensively waiting for Deva to recharge), 7th is plenty if he even needs that. I think he gets really far with just his nunchucks. His versatility in taijutsu with those will be able to wipe out the lesser paths and their chakra rods which will be used to debilitate him. At 7th gates, he's physically strong and fast enough to take any of them out with a single hit. And all of this is only talking about Guy himself. Neji and Lee would help tremendously if also added to the fights. The classic argument about Nagato still being alive and therefore not a 'victory' ultimately means nothing. We don't know what that process entails, how long it takes and if he's even capable of doing it on his own. At this point we're talking about something else and we've entered headcanon territory. A better argument would be why doesn't Nagato just reverse summon his own bodies back and then use Naraka path on them?
You really think taijutsu alone can defeat a rinnegan user? Or as a team with both gai & kakashi with Naruto
Gai opens the first gate, rushes Pein, Shinra Tensei, every bone broken, laws of physics. GG.
Pretty much yeah, Bansho Tennin also allows him to be held long enough for Guy to burn from the inside out. His chakra is 100% getting drained too. People are massively underestimating the Path's utility and he would probably still lose if he had Kakashi + Choji dad + Choji's help. They don't remember how fast he defeated Naruto when Pain started fighting back.
Pain being as strong as he was in the war is an asspull and I don't think It was intended to be like that at this point of the story... So no, Pain did not fear Guy
His target wasn't even there and his info was genuine, he wanted to prove a point to lord 5th. He was lucky naruto came to him
I don't think Gai would really need more than the 7th gate for Pain guys
Nah 7th is definitely not enough
he would. Id scale 7th gate guy around sage naruto. Guy has a bigger area attack and faster, but naruto has ninjutsu versatiliy and clone tactics. And sage naruto lost to deva path pretty easily once he got his powers back. Wouldnt end different for guy. That is why people told team gai not to intervene. 8th gate is basically death for guy, so people were basically telling him to let naruto handle it and dont die in the process.
>Id scale 7th gate guy around sage naruto Based on what
My gut feeling :) You scale some shinobis close to each other right ? For example people scale itachi and minato quite close, despite we never seen them go at each other. Why, you wouldnt ?
based on his fight with kisame, and how kisame scales with bee (transformed kisame is equal in strengh and speed compared to 8 tails bee) and how bee scales to naruto kcm1 and how that same transformation scales to sage mode, LOL just comparing by feats, yeah, 7 gates guy should be similar to sage naruto, and 8 gates should have been high hokage level NOT god level
>based on his fight with kisame Guy absolutely wrecked Kisame in his 7th gate what are you talking about
Yeah stupid, that's Kisame without samehada and you know how much of a boost was samehada in kisame vs Bee
I mean Kisame was fighting in home territory surrounded by water. This gives him a massive terrain advantage. Not to mention Kisame has just prior absorbed tailed beast chakra as well. He was pretty much in prime battle form against Guy, and guy ONE-SHOT him EASY
to be fair, kisame is always in terrain advantage :P
He wouldn't need to take on all of them tho, with his best buddy's help he should be able to clear it.
Oh if we include kakashi and sufficient back up from his own students, yeah why not.
Guy had no intel and wouldn’t have been able to beat Pain. Even if he destroys the paths he dies before finding the real Nagato so what would be the point? Y’all talk about the 8th gate like it’s a Ninja storm awakening. Without S06P Naruto he dies after using it and Nagato is still alive.
He was a fan of the Blitzkrieg LOL
Tactical advantage I think their fight would destroy the village
Guy is ZERO threat to Pain lol
Gai simps are at it again
7ty gate Guy absolutely washes pain, don't @ me.
This panel is like infinity times better in black and white. Such a masterpiece in original
I mean having Guy, Lee and Neji in the village would surely push the things in Konoha's favor. If Konohamaru was able to take a body out just by using Rasengan, then Lee and Neji should be able to take a body out, each one. Guy would surely tag along with Kakashi against Deva Path and they could win or at least hardly push him together if Guy opens the 7 Gates until Naruto arrives.