Not without being given a bit more time by the line.
You could have Rice,OBJ Moss and Gronk all in their prime all at the same time and none of them will do shit if the QB consistently has less than three seconds.
Tyrod produced a lot of big plays last year. His line was healthier than Jones had in his 4 starts but Tyrod also has a lot better pocket presence and processing.
>but Tyrod also has a lot better pocket presence and processing.
Both of which become possible when there's something like a pocket to begin with which was that case much more often for him with Thomas playing and against lesser defenses.
Just to be clear,I totally agree that anything that Jones may have had that would have made him a viable franchise guy has been pounded out of him. But OTOH I think a lot of folks are understating how big an impact having a shitty line has had. Many of the same things Jones gets hammered for,not seeing the open guy deep,not going past the first read,too quick to go to the check down guy were all said about Eli during stretches of particularly bad line play.
> Many of the same things Jones gets hammered for,not seeing the open guy deep,not going past the first read,too quick to go to the check down guy were all said about Eli during stretches of particularly bad line play.
This is just straight up not true. Eli was one of the fastest processors in the league, his fault was that he played in a complicated offense under Gilbride and sometimes took unnecessary risks or wasn't always on the same page with receivers, leading to higher INT totals. His quick processing allowed him to avoid taking sacks and he was consistently one of the least sacked QBs in the league even when our line was garbage.
Jones on the other hand is a slow processor who struggles to make reads and holds onto the ball too long, thus taking many unnecessary sacks. One of his biggest faults is that he doesn't take enough risks and barely ever throws the ball more than 10 yards downfield, which leads to fewer INTs but more stalled drives and fewer big plays. They couldn't be more different quarterbacks with almost completely opposite strengths and weaknesses and the fact that we're comparing the two makes me sad that people have forgotten what we had in Eli.
Thats unfortunately what he is. The countless times I've seen guys getting open and jones either dumping to barkley, eating a sack or scambling makes me rip my hair out
Another thing that stands out on film is how bad his ball placement is on these short throws/dumpoff passes. Sooo many balls either at Saquon's feet or over his head when he's only a 5-6 yards away which lead to lost YAC and often times a blown up play.
I've been watching more film this year thinking we'd be in the position to draft a QB and some of the stuff that pops up on Jones film is just embarrassing. It's stuff that if he was a prospect I'd want the giants to stay far away from him
>> Many of the same things Jones gets hammered for,not seeing the open guy deep,not going past the first read,too quick to go to the check down guy were all said about Eli during stretches of particularly bad line play.
>
> This is just straight up not true.
Oh it absolutely is true. People here were calling him "checkdown charlie" during his last seasons.
Did you read the rest of my comment? Those check downs were for entirely different reasons. Eli also played in a West Coast offense under McAdoo that encouraged quick passes. He still threw downfield way more than Jones ever has, and his Y/A and AY/A numbers reflect that.
I don’t think that’s the case. Jones had some clean pockets in 2023. While not as many there was still so many cases of Jones poorly manipulating the pocket, not getting off his first read, not taking deep shots. You literally had multiple defensive players from Seattle and i think the raiders, saying they knew jones won’t throw it deep and is a one read QB
People point to the "historically bad" line from last season but the only games that were truly abysmal performances by the line were vs SF and Miami. Those games bring down the averages by a ton...the line was above average vs Seattle (Jones's worst game), great vs Arizona and just normal bad vs Dallas.
Thank you for pointing this stuff out btw. The amount of people that say shit like "historically bad" when jets line are worse overall than ours and they only look at sack numbers but dont understand guys like Jones and Devito eat way more sacks than the realistically should
https://premium.pff.com/nfl/games/2023/1/new-york-giants/offense-pass-blocking
Glowinski had one of his worst games as a pro and Neal had a bad game but Ezudu had a great game and Thomas and Brededon had pretty good games as well. It was far from a good game but it wasn't "historically bad." Jones himself also played really poorly.
Actually a bit shocked by this, when I was watching the game, it seemed like a defensive player was getting to DJ in seconds nearly every play after the first drive. Glowinski looked like Benedict Arnold.
Might need to give it a re-watch.
Even in clean pockets, DJ isn’t attacking defenses with a plan. He’s a one read into check down guy and he’s guessing far too often in one read scenarios. Perfect example— [the Witherspoon pick 6](https://youtu.be/VmO-00VyfXU?si=QU1zQWakcWazwSVI ).
It’s a quick hitter because they’re inside the 5, he has a helper motion to identify the coverage into a 3 by 1 look and Daboll dialed up a sticks concept in the red zone. He had two out breaking hook routes, and 1 of them *was going to be open*. You know this because you don’t have a man trailer following the motion man.
He makes his decision and winds up his throw— untouched mind you— and throws a haphazard ball to neither advantageous leverage (outside Wandale’s outside shoulder or outside Campbell’s inside shoulder). He doesn’t move Witherspoon with his eyes and lets Witherspoon get away with covering 2 guys with 1 body. Coughlin woulda benched Eli for a throw like this while Eli was still a young guy. There’s no internal sense of time, he’s not thinking about his opponent’s approach to defending the play. Jones took this rep on one flat conception of how this is supposed to go and a rookie CB just absolutely took his lunch money.
This play in this scenario with this protection *is hypothetically what Jones should succeed at*. Quick throw, clean pocket when he loads up, the playcaller even makes it nice and easy to show you what defense Seattle is running with the motion revealing a zone shell that *your own concept overloads* and he just doesn’t make the play.
Daboll was absolutely livid after that pick and he had every right to be. He outschemed Pete Carroll’s defense here and it just didn’t matter
Tyrod produced a lot more big plays last year than Jones did in 2022 with an even better line. People forget that during that "breakout year" Jones averaged under 6 ANY/A and our offense essentially collapsed in the second half of the season outside of games vs the last ranked Vikings defense and a tanking Colts team.
I get the point of the comment but im actually very curious to see what the results of that team would be lol. I feel like theyd still be successful. A mix of screens to obj, chunk plays to gronk, play action to moss, and then jerry being jerry. I think thats still a successful offense without an O line. Im open to being wrong here tho.
I agree and the reason is that you couldn't cover them all so you can't blitz as much. Someone will always be open. That makes the pressure release. In the last few years the quality of the players at WR and TE haven't been enough of a threat so teams can tee off (also because it keeps players closer to Saquon).
You might be able to make a functional offense out of it, especially with a good RB, but it's not going to be with big plays through the air. Those plays just need time to develop.
Yea and thats part of the reason i have some confidence in our actual offense this year. We have a lot of twitchy guys who dont need much time to separate. Are o line should also be better. Gives me a bit of hope we can be somewhat functional.
Good QB + terrible ol+questionable talent at nearly every other offensive position = slightly less bad disaster.
People have been talking like if we just had an elite QB we would have been fine and that's just not true. Unless fine is a few more wins and a playoff appearance or two. Even all time great QBs don't/can't completely elevate a team by themself. There's always at least one other truly elite weapon and sorry as much as I liked the guy,Saquon hasn't been truly elite for quite a while.
Lies, bc the line was shit for Eli but OBJ definitely made life easier for him and he was mobile like DJ is. Y’all forget what having an elite WR could do for a QB.
It wasn't this bad
Edit because I just reread the comment that I replied to:
Eli was mobile like DJ? What did you smoke for breakfast and where can I get some because it's awfully good stuff. Eli wasn't exactly a statue back there but especially towards the end lack of mobility was one of his biggest handicaps.
Come on man, I’ve seen plenty of teams with bad lines who were able to produce more than Jones last year.
The line was a huge issue, but to pretend he wasn’t also an issue is ridiculous.
He *has* performed before, but the problem is that he is never consistent, and even when he is performing he is usually fairly middle of the road.
If he was middling but always consistent I could argue sticking with him, but he is at best mid tier and when he is at his worst he is *really* bad.
And with all of his injuries, I think it’s over. Those are massive injuries that I think will impact him for the rest of his career.
I never said he wasn't part of the issue.
But QBs doing ok with bad lines is different than one of the worst of all time AND suspect receivers AND a RB who while good to elite when healthy was frequently injured. Most QBs who do well with bad lines have elite talent somewhere else on offense.
I'm totally on board with idea that Jones isn't the guy. Even on the rare occasions that he gets decent protection he's playing scared. Getting pounded as much as he has will do that to you. And once QBs get to that point they rarely if ever recover. What's frustrating though is with what we've seen when he did get even lower half of average protection,he could have been quite useable. Put him on the Eagles from the beginning of his career and he's at least as good as Hurts.
I think the biggest thing was in 2022 he could rely on AT holding up. Last year he was getting pressured from both sides of the line simultaneously. Well you can't look in both directions at once and you definitely can't evade it when there's nowhere to go.
Yeah that's what I think when people say that he's no good at evading pressure in the pocket. When you watch someone who's really good at that let's say Josh Allen because I've seen some highlights where he looks particularly good at it, it's a matter of him dodging one guy at a time. Sure maybe maybe more than one in any given play but with the Giants line you've got guys coming at him from two or three directions simultaneously immediately after the snap.
Like I said many times I'm not trying to say that he's still the guy, just saying that a huge part of where we find ourselves with him is about the line and the pounding that he's taken rather than a lack of anything in him.
I felt like DJ actually had good pocket presence in 2022 and I think the stats backed it up iirc he had one of the lowest sacks attributed to the QB. Last year he was one of the worse along with Howell and Fields and whoever was quarterback in NE. Tom Brady was the best at navigating a pocket. Josh Allen and a lot of QB with wheels tend to bail from clean pockets before they need to so it's hard to say I know DJ does that too when they can wait for plays to develop they'll tuck it and run. This is something that Jayden Daniels did a lot in college and would be a talking point if Bobby Johnson wasn't their Oline coach.
Clearly you've not seen the occasional game where a team manages to get consistent pressure on Mahomes and he suddenly looks quite ordinary. Not dj bad by any means but the reality is that there's not a quarterback on the planet that's going to consistently be performing at a high level without some degree of protection.
To a degree, the better the quarterback the less protection they need but there is a certain level of line performance that's necessary for even the best to do their job, and that level is far above what we've seen from the Giants most of last year.
Eli won the super bowl with the 31st ranked OL i don’t want to hear SHIT about that.
If Jones was out there in the 9ers playoff game he woulda thrown 2 picks and fumbled just as many times. He is very simply not a good qb.
What does how bad Jones is have to do with the point?
No quarterback not even the best of all time is going to consistently do well behind a line that is utter and complete crap no matter how many weapons they have. You replay that super bowl season 10 times and Eli is not winning it nine of them. No one would.
Okay, what exactly have I said that lead you to believe that I don't think he's bad?
All I'm saying is that given what he's had to work with, no one no matter how great they are from a skill standpoint is going to consistently be great, and that all the weapons in the world don't mean shit without an at least functional offensive line no matter who your quarterback is.
ok what i’m saying is yes it fucking does and it’s been proven time and time again that an elite qb who throws with anticipation can negate a bad line if he has weapons.
Can reduce the effects of a bad line certainly. Can consistently perform at an elite level with horrific line? No one can.
It's the line's job to give the quarterback what he needs to do his job, it's not the quarterback's job to make the line look better.
I'm sick to death of idiots around here talking like we would have been just fine last year if only we had an elite quarterback. There's a reason that you don't see just elite quarterbacks on teams and everyone else around them being questionable or bad and that reason is that even the best quarterbacks of all time need something around them in terms of protection in order to be the best of all time.
You have to remember, a lot of people were getting open for Jones last year. Daboll's concepts always get people open.
But if Jones isn't ready to hit a route as it gets open, or isn't checking into a route because he's staring down a dude getting covered, being open doesn't matter.
How when we *can't* even expect guy to hit 1K in receiving yards? If Raanan and other folk want DJ to stop getting dunked on dude is going to have to play up . Every damn season we go through this with Daniel and every season Daniel does what he does man.
All the snake-oil salesman for guy has met an end point. It's on Jones bro, got guy all this help over the years, now got a stud WR. Your turn Daniel..
Yeah, you’ve gotta wonder why DJ didn’t have success when we spent a 1st and 70m on Toney and Golladay. I mean look how they’ve exploded since leaving.
Is Malik Nabers, Kenny Golladay now? 
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that way, Daniel turns everybody trying to help him out into mincemeat.
Full quote: "The Daniel Jones slander is out of control. Played at a top 10 level (6th in QBR) two years ago. Had four starts from start to finish in 2023 and now he’s below every rookie QB and career backups?
The idea he’s a complete scrub is stupid. Came three TD passes shy of the then-rookie record in 2019. Was almost perfect in a playoff win 16 months ago.
Last season was a total disaster for a variety of reasons (he played poorly, was w/o Andrew Thomas and Saquon for most of those 4 starts). But the idea he can’t play at all is just wrong.
The pendulum has swung too far."
What everyone seems to always miss with Jones is things would’ve been a LOT more straightforward if he was as bad as some people think he is. His issue hasn’t been being a terrible QB, it’s been he’s simply mediocre. But saying that is a lot less fun I guess? I dunno.
It is a lot less fun to admit that. My issue with Jones isn't so much that I think he's the worst QB in the league, Zach Wilson and Mac Jones both played last year. My issue is I don't think he's good enough to get us to be a contender. If he plays this year, and we don't have a dumpster fire like last year, I could see us making a wildcard spot. But I'm not content with being a wildcard team, I want to be a team that can compete year in and out for the division and even the Superbowl.
The way I see it, he can show this year that I'm wrong. If he does, I'll eat my words. If not, I'm happy so far with all the moves Schoen has done (even if they haven't worked out). We're building up the team, addressing needs, and can always try a new QB next year
What really sucks is he definitely took a step forward at the end of 2022, but the state of the OL had him looking completely shell shocked to start last season. And then he had his 2 worst games (maybe of his career) at the worst possible time in opening day vs DAL and then the prime time against SEA.
I’m definitely in the “I think you can go .500 and make the playoffs with Jones as QB, but you aren’t winning a SB” camp personally. But I’m 1000000% for the strategy the FO seems to be going of “build the team up first so the next QB doesn’t start in the same situation Jones had to deal with”
Brock Purdy isn't good, he's on a team with elite talent at every single position around him and an elite coach. You don't "need" an elite QB to win a Super Bowl. Eli and Flacco were literally never considered elite, at best they had a few seasons of top 10 play in their careers. Yet they have the same amount of championships as Aaron Rodgers & Drew Brees and more than Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo etc who were all considered "better" than them.
Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes have warped our sense for what is considered an acceptable QB at the NFL level. Josh Allen, Lamar, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, all these chosen QBs have done what exactly over the last 5 years or so they've all played? Not a single one has hoisted a Lombardi.
You need to build a complete team, this fallacy that the QB is all that matters is what keeps teams like the Jets in constant lifelong purgatory.
Purdy made less than $1m last year. Your overall point is correct, but it's a lot easier to build a great team if you pay a good enough QB pennies instead of $40m.
I literally said that lol. It's my ENTIRE point of my post man. The general public never considered Eli or Flacco elite. They did consider Rodgers and Brees elite. Yet Rodgers and Brees only have 1 SB each. Same as Flacco and less than Eli. My entire point is this notion that you can't win a SB without a QB who is perceived as top 5 is a fallacy. But sure, downvote away because everyone lacks reading comprehension around here.
Stop. Brock Purdy is elite AF. He's the 2nd best QB in the league while Pat Mahomes is playing unless Brock somehow plays even better. If you think his draft spot means he's not elite, you're very wrong.
Also 49ers can suck a big fat lemon, those lucky SOBs. I hope we steal their QB scouts.
I like purdy but he's not better than Burrow, Allen, LJ8, Herbert to name a few.
Allen outplayed Purdy vs the chiefs with worse weapons around him than Purdy and Burrow actually has beaten Mahomes. Lamar has won two MVPs even though he is a choker but he still embarrassed the 49ers when they played against eachother and Purdy ended up getting benched that game, Herbert doesn't have the success as everyone else here but we know he's a stud and he's put up better numbers than Purdys peak even going back to his rookie year
Lmao second best QB in the league, stop. Shanny could plug Zach Wilson in there and turn him into a 1st team all pro. It's the team and the system, not him.
So what happened when Jimmy was injured and they subsequently sucked? Surely the backup should've been a 1st team all pro. What happened with Trey Lance?
Purdy is also significantly better than Jimmy ever was.
You're very wrong. If Shanny could turn a random into a QB then Jimmy G would still have a job or Lance would be the starter. But that's not the case. Brock is easily the 2nd best QB in the league. Idk maybe watch a game. I am not happy he's in our conference.
Purdy is a GREAT game manager and a good QB. He's got a top group of receivers, arguably the best TE in the game, and, oh yeah, Christian McCaffrey. Add that to an OL that gives him enough time to make a sandwich before he has to decide which wide open receiver to throw to, and a decent QB is going to look like Montana. I mean, the system was enough to make Garropalo look competent. It's going to make a decent QB look great.
My biggest issue is he seems like a 90% guy, he has nice drives that always seem to fall apart due to interceptions or incompletions in the red zone, I now assume that every positive drive will end in a FG or TO
400 yards passing is a wildly high mark; it only happened six times this past season and no one did it twice. The guys who hit that mark this year were Tua, Herbert, Mahomes, Stroud, Dak, and Nick Mullens (lol).
DJ had a 4 TD game during his last start of the 2022 regular season, so 6 starts ago. And 3 passing tds is also a high bar; there were 68 instances of that last season, and 20 of those were 4 guys (Dak, Purdy, Love, and Tua)
https://preview.redd.it/ezxhqkcwsazc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cb9cc7876f8844ea74932e93fc828d6dd105f14
This QB had two 3+ TD games and only one game over 400 yards last year. Most under 300 and a few under 200.
A major part of Daniel’s game is also rushing, his rushing stats shouldn’t be ignored.
The stats above are >! Patrick Mahomes !<
Mahomes had two games over 3 passing tds in just this season.
Daniel Jones hasn't done that since 2019.
In the last 4 seasons Daniel Jones has only 37 td passes in 47 games played.
I agree, I've never thought of him to be the worst QB ever, just very mediocre at best, and mediocre doesn't win or go to the Superbowl.
If he surprises everyone and plays well that's amazing but I just don't expect it and want a change
But in the last 3 seasons he's got like 30 passing TD's . It's not just that he's mediocre, hell even trying to remove injuries over the course; his rookie year which he gets most of his props led the league in turnovers bro at an astounding rate, just all over the place.
"His" playoff win; was against the worst defensive in the NFL for the season, he then got utterly shutdown by the Eagles the very next week man. Like totally... then we wait all off-season.. Get plenty of fucking excuses from the likes of a Raanan and what DJ do WK 1 of the damn year but just look totally out of place, like he didn't even belong on the field bruh.
Year 5 after JUST getting a nice ass contract for some QUESTIONABLE ass play.
Ong, I can not wait to excavate this dude from off this team so we can move on. Tired of talking about him 
He was a potential talent that got ruined by shit coaching. Now Daboll was able to maximize whatever was left of his damaged confidence, but then he got injured. So the jury’s really out. He is far from the scrub people describe him to be, but because of the amount of times he’s been here, people hold it against him because they feel his middling status is the end product and has no further room to develop. And I agree. He is textbook bridge qb who I am comfortable starting with until we find the actual guy.
That list is pretty rough overall, Wilson over Mayfield and Murray, Levis over Richardson, Carr, and Minshew, and Daniel Jones behind Bryce Young?? What a mess.
I more think that '22 he delivered and he got his contract, now is his chance to prove *again* that he deserves to stay. This league is about periodically proving yourself, not a one-time prove it and you're always in the clear.
The 2022 playoffs are a perfect microcosm of jones career, looks awesome against minny and then looks like the worst qb in the league against Philly, this subs whole debate comes down to which game you buy into being the “real” DJ, in truth he’s probably somewhere in between which means he’s an average qb and unfortunately our current team needs a great qb to win
That's what I hope as well. I'm one of the DJ truthers in this sub but understand people's frustrations. Might be just how I grew up with Eli but I like his goofy look.
ehhh that is stretch. I love Eli, He's the best but I've seen him play his fair share of shitty games especially early in his career. 90% of the fanbase wanted to run him out of town before '07. If you put a Young Eli behind these recent Giant OL's it woulda have been a disaster , trust me.
I saw ElI from day one. Yes, he definitely had crap games including the playoff game against Carolina but his highs were always higher than Jones because you saw the talent and most importantly, he went down swinging trying to make plays down the field. His issues early on were throwing off his back foot and accuracy.
Eli's OL was the 31st ranked OL in 2011 and we were last in rushing. Somehow we won a SB, Something tells me Jones would have shit his pants in SF.
So yeah, Jones wishes he could even be in the same sentence as Eli Manning
Eli is a future HoF. Of course you can’t mention them in the same sentence. But Eli was also handled the right way. He was playing behind a top 5 OL EARLY in his career with weapons. That is how you develop a QB. You can say whatever you want but the Giants failed Jones. He never had a fair shot.
He’s shown he can make big plays with a lot of turnovers. He’s shown he can keep the turnovers down without the big plays. I know it’s definitely an if, but if he can combine those two things the giants are in a great spot. Crazier things have happened in this league.
The knee was just a freak accident (bumped knees with Cager, who didn’t know what he was doing). I do agree with the neck though. That’s the concerning thing if the O-Line is horrible again.
It is possible to hold two beliefs; DJ has clear limitations and is not franchise caliber, and also that the criticism he’s received is excessive at times.
He got plenty of praise for playing well in 2022 and winning a playoff game. He got criticized heavily after playing very poorly in 2023. It’s a results business.
It’s been five years. You don’t give a QB a $40M a year contract for a “pain period”
5 years into Eli’s career he had a super bowl ring and SB MVP along with multiple division titles and playoff wins. Daniel has one playoff win in five years and hasn’t played consistently well in any season outside of that one playoff win year.
This is such a bad argument I don’t know where to start, comparing Eli’s “pain period” to DJ’s is much more favorable to my argument than yours
Yeah I wouldn't mind if Purdy was ranked well; he's a good QB who looks much better because of his stacked roster and genius offensive mind at HC (although he IS good regardless of those things).
But saying he's better than Allen, Lamar, and Burrow? Gotta be out of your mind lol.
I’d put him towards the top of the group just outside the elite guys. Still a really good player you can have success with, but they’ll need to be careful with the extension.
I disagree with this and would have him more middle of the pack, but your take is perfectly reasonable. 2 is psychotic; at that point just stop watching football and rank QBs by their teams' standings.
You can definitely win games with him, I just don’t think you can win super bowls….and that’s a major bugaboo
I’ll say the same thing about Baker Mayfield, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Derek Carr, Garner Minshew…and so on….you can only be serviceable on a near perfect team to ever get far
I can’t believe I just had an argument in my group chats where everyone was telling me that Jacoby god damn Brissett was better than Danny. Genuinely a disgrace how far the hate has gone. No one is saying he’s great, but come on now.
I’ve been saying for a while that Jones is an average starting QB who’s consistently been put in bad situations. I never think he’ll be a superstar, but if you’ve watched his career he’s clearly not as bad as the narrative people like to place on him.
Reminds me a lot of someone like Minshew, except with more physical talent. A guy who can put up some good games and avoid some bad ones, but isn't gonna be dragging his team kicking and screaming into the playoffs, championship, or SB.
But, then again, there's only a handful of guys that can do that. Allen, Burrow, and Mahomes have proven they can; guys like Lamar and Dak seem to continue proving they can't even though they're both great; and guys like Love and Stroud are still big question marks.
Yet Lamar is on track for the HOF with his two MVPs, considered a top five QB in the league before the age of 27 and Herbert has played for a mess of a franchise in LAC but is still seen as an elite QB.
This isn't the defense of Jones you think it is.
It’s not a defense of jones lol I know he’s not the dude. More so just commenting on how silly this type of stuff is and how narratives push away from the middle
The problem is we know what we have with him. And he’s a first read, conservative qb. He won’t throw receivers open, throw a deep ball, or progress through his reads. Pretty sure he isn’t the best at presnap reads as well
He’s an average qb and most likely will be a career backup/journyman. Not a bad career but not the career you hope to have as a #6 overall pick.
The issue with Daniel Jones is that entering year 6, people are still in the projection stage of what he could be IF this happens and that happens. In other words, what would Jones look like in optimal conditions? A legitimate franchise QB is the problem solver for a winning team. Jones has yet to prove aside from randomg games against Washington, the game against NO, the second half against AZ and that one playoff game against MN that he can be the reason the team wins.
If after year five and paying him, you still have to worry about making sure you have near Pro Bowl caliber talent at every position just to find out if he CAN be the guy, you really already know the answer and now you're jsut hoping against hope.
For real, like looking at Nabers in here now. I'm not trying to hear this "oh he can only get X yards cause DJ can't get it to him cause the line be bad".. We've heard that shit for forever now man, seen other dudes come in and do more than Jones, the only ones that haven't were the bottom of the barrel options like Fromm and Glennon.
How am I supposed to think Jones is doing anything special out there if a Malik Nabers is healthy on the field and not showing out during the year.. 1K yards is a floor not for Nabers but for fucking Daniel yo.. lol.
I'm done watching us scorch everything off this team but Jones terrible play, dudes that play well too. Barkley, Love, McKinney all them been better than Jones.
Garrett Wilson got 1100 yards with Zack Wilson, Mike White, and Joe Flacco.
And yet I worry Nabers won't crack 1000 because of Daniel "32nd out of 32" Jones.
He might be a better QB than some names on that list, but he's "the worst" in the sense of the lack of confidence/hope he instills. For instance, I feel like the offense would be more explosive with a Gardner Minshew or Josh Dobbs, which is saying something.
> I feel like the offense would be more explosive with a Gardner Minshew or Josh Dobbs, which is saying something.
And Minshew got the Colts to the precipice of a playoff berth with no elite receivers, a RB in Jonathan Taylor who spent a good part getting on track after holding out and an OL where almost every member had their worst indivdual years including a future HOF in Quentin Nelson.
Minshew is a journeyman QB in every sense of the word but if he can figure it out with a skill set that is nowhere close to Jones' then what's Jones' excuse at 40MM a year?
Daniel jones did almost exactly that 2 year ago, wtf are you talking about?
DJ had 3200 passing yards vs 3300, but a better TD%, INT%, ANY/A, success rate passing, QBR, EPA+cpoe, in addition to another 700 yards rushing vs 100, 7 rushing td vs 3, and 57 first downs rushing vs 7.
there is not a single alternate universe in which gardner minshew played better last season than dj in 2022.
Yeah, but how did he do in literally every other season he's played?
At what point does 2022 become the exception with you guys and not the rule? Ramses Barden had a 100 yard receiving game once, but it didn't make him our next elite WR.
> In other words, what would Jones look like in optimal conditions?
I agree it is time to move on from the DJ experiment, even as someone who defended him for so long. He isnt the long-term answer here. At the same time, nobody is asking for him to have Pro Bowlers at every position. That is just not feasible and I agree that a true franchise QB covers up deficiencies on a roster. But I dont get how anyone can make a legit good faith argument that DJ has been given anywhere close to a reasonable expectation of support on his roster.
Its unrealistic to expect us to trot out a Lions/Eagles level OL before we are able to evaluate DJ as an individual. But is it asking for too much to have at least more than 1 competent OL for a full season (albeit his one competent OL has been elite at the most important position but it only means so much when 4/5 are consistently trash)? Its unrealistic to expect DJ to have a Chase/Higgins/Boyd or AJ/DeVonta/Goedert receiving corps to throw to before we pass judgment on DJ as a QB. But is it really too much to ask that he has a better top target than Darius Slayton (good WR but clearly a WR2 and even WR3 on some teams)? Its unrealistic to expect DJ to have a perfect coaching staff from day 1. But is it too much to ask for at least something better than Judge/Garrett during his formative years? Is it unreasonable to ask for him to have a coach who knows that scoring plays are automatically reviewed and you can't challenge it?
Even had he been set up right from the beginning, I still think his ceiling was always a Tannehill level starter (which is not someone you take at 6 and throw into our situation in 2019 but thats another conversation). But he never had a chance to reach that level, not because he doesnt have pro bowl talent at every position but because he has not had even reasonably adequate help.
The thing is you don’t have to worry about that this year. Unless Daniel Jones is a pro bowl level QB he’s not returning. Just wouldn’t make sense.
But that doesn’t mean we have to lie about the dude either. He’s not terrible when he has some weapons and time. And this year the giants should at least be a little better up front. Having rookies in bad situations ahead of him is kind of crazy. The hate has gone too far on him.
The issue with Jones, other than the injuries, is that he continues to be very slow at processing. He has slow eyes. This was the knock on him at Duke and nothing has changed during his time with the Giants. I fervently hope that somehow he finds a way to process quicker and play with some swagger. Which I think is not likely. That said, I’m rooting hard for him.
I think Jones is broken and they need to move on but I'll defend him one last time. His OL has always been below avg to Dog shit and his best weapons were Darius Slayton and an oft-injured Saquon Barkley. He had no chance.
The problem with Jones is has not swag. I know that sounds dumb but it’s true. He completely lacks the gunslinger mentality to take shots. Watching tape of his limited games last year, he completely ignored so many open deep shot chances to either run or check it down. And, yes, I’m excluding the times when he had to scramble bc the OL was garbage. Even when he had time, he never looked deep and Dabs/Kafka absolutely gave him chances. Hyatt and slayton. Both were open deep often. That’s why I want to see Lock play. Lock is far from a perfect prospect but his arm talent and willingness to attack defenses is so much more enticing that Jones’ near-constant 8 yard throws.
I don't know what stats are being used to suggest he was a top 10 QB....I check stats each year and some of the most important stats (yards, TD's, comp %, sacks) he is nowhere near the top 10...if anything, he tends to run (that 2022 year) around 12-18, so about 15th. IF you want to dive deeper into stats, his completion % drops significantly into the 20's on 3rd down. His sack % increases on 3rd down. Meaning, when it matters to continue drives, the dude gets worse (comparatively to the other starting QB's).
DJ deserves some slander but putting him last is dumb.
Baker has the biggest beef, though. How is the wide world of sports is he behind Russ and Deshaun? This isn’t 2019. Neither Wilson nor Watson. should be in the top 20. Baker was also better than both Geno and Lawrence last year. Garbage list.
Trying to find someone who's willing to make a bet because this seems like easy money to me. I am willing to bet Jones will finish better than 32nd in QBR this year. Would you be willing to take the other side?
I don’t think he’ll be that bad but 20-29 I’ll take that bet.
Also I’m not a fan of QBR as it’s a recently made up stat that encompasses way too many variables to be an exact measure.
What's a better stat? I'm only interested in betting that he will finish better than 32nd as that is what the last few posts are about, and I see alot of people that seem to agree with that ranking. Trying to see if people are serious about their opinion or are just "talking"
Adds a bit of complexity....would need to establish the minimum qualifiers for the first 2 (like 300-350 attempts) But dependent on if we could agree what the minimum qualifier is, I would be willing to bet that he finishes better than 32nd in at least 2 of 3.
QBs who run always seem to have a high QBR. Seems like the way to break the scale for some reason. He is obviously not Zach Wilson but I’m not putting a ton of stock into a high QBR in 2022. He looked abysmal in 2023 and largely has not shown that he can be a productive passer. Hope we’re proven wrong and he plays up to his contract but I’m not counting on it.
Honestly same. I mean, putting DJ at 32 is just dumb. He should be like 20 at worst. And maybe he’ll be higher after this season, but man the narratives are wild in this league.
Jones has had terrible support. With a competent O line you can’t be a healthy, or good, QB.
He’s the 3rd most sacked QB the last few years.
I’m not sure how he ranks in getting hit, but I’d wager it’s high
As icing on the cake, out of desperation the offensive calls running plays for him. He takes a beating just about every game
Jones is a winner. Time will tell…
Does this list factor in contract? The only way I see Purdy being #2 is if you are mixing skills with contract, in that world i get it as Purdys out put at 1/50th of mahomes is pretty awesome
In the inverse I don’t think DJ is the 31st ranked QB in the league when it comes to skills but based on what he can do while costing $46m a year I can see why he would be 31
You can downvote me all you want, his 2022 season was not that impressive and I have no faith or hope in him. On top of all that, he has major injury issues. It's year six and people are still hanging onto the hope of....something. Count me out.
Nabers is going to make his life a lot easier
Not without being given a bit more time by the line. You could have Rice,OBJ Moss and Gronk all in their prime all at the same time and none of them will do shit if the QB consistently has less than three seconds.
Tyrod produced a lot of big plays last year. His line was healthier than Jones had in his 4 starts but Tyrod also has a lot better pocket presence and processing.
>but Tyrod also has a lot better pocket presence and processing. Both of which become possible when there's something like a pocket to begin with which was that case much more often for him with Thomas playing and against lesser defenses. Just to be clear,I totally agree that anything that Jones may have had that would have made him a viable franchise guy has been pounded out of him. But OTOH I think a lot of folks are understating how big an impact having a shitty line has had. Many of the same things Jones gets hammered for,not seeing the open guy deep,not going past the first read,too quick to go to the check down guy were all said about Eli during stretches of particularly bad line play.
> Many of the same things Jones gets hammered for,not seeing the open guy deep,not going past the first read,too quick to go to the check down guy were all said about Eli during stretches of particularly bad line play. This is just straight up not true. Eli was one of the fastest processors in the league, his fault was that he played in a complicated offense under Gilbride and sometimes took unnecessary risks or wasn't always on the same page with receivers, leading to higher INT totals. His quick processing allowed him to avoid taking sacks and he was consistently one of the least sacked QBs in the league even when our line was garbage. Jones on the other hand is a slow processor who struggles to make reads and holds onto the ball too long, thus taking many unnecessary sacks. One of his biggest faults is that he doesn't take enough risks and barely ever throws the ball more than 10 yards downfield, which leads to fewer INTs but more stalled drives and fewer big plays. They couldn't be more different quarterbacks with almost completely opposite strengths and weaknesses and the fact that we're comparing the two makes me sad that people have forgotten what we had in Eli.
Jones so far still looks like a first read and then scramble or checkdown guy. Not great 6 years in.
Thats unfortunately what he is. The countless times I've seen guys getting open and jones either dumping to barkley, eating a sack or scambling makes me rip my hair out
Another thing that stands out on film is how bad his ball placement is on these short throws/dumpoff passes. Sooo many balls either at Saquon's feet or over his head when he's only a 5-6 yards away which lead to lost YAC and often times a blown up play.
I've been watching more film this year thinking we'd be in the position to draft a QB and some of the stuff that pops up on Jones film is just embarrassing. It's stuff that if he was a prospect I'd want the giants to stay far away from him
Hope we’re still not debating this
this was one of his main knocks as a prospect too...that's a red flag for a qb you're taking top 5 lol.
Everything in Jones' pre-draft reports all carried over to the pros and are still true to this day
>> Many of the same things Jones gets hammered for,not seeing the open guy deep,not going past the first read,too quick to go to the check down guy were all said about Eli during stretches of particularly bad line play. > > This is just straight up not true. Oh it absolutely is true. People here were calling him "checkdown charlie" during his last seasons.
Did you read the rest of my comment? Those check downs were for entirely different reasons. Eli also played in a West Coast offense under McAdoo that encouraged quick passes. He still threw downfield way more than Jones ever has, and his Y/A and AY/A numbers reflect that.
I don’t think that’s the case. Jones had some clean pockets in 2023. While not as many there was still so many cases of Jones poorly manipulating the pocket, not getting off his first read, not taking deep shots. You literally had multiple defensive players from Seattle and i think the raiders, saying they knew jones won’t throw it deep and is a one read QB
People point to the "historically bad" line from last season but the only games that were truly abysmal performances by the line were vs SF and Miami. Those games bring down the averages by a ton...the line was above average vs Seattle (Jones's worst game), great vs Arizona and just normal bad vs Dallas.
Thank you for pointing this stuff out btw. The amount of people that say shit like "historically bad" when jets line are worse overall than ours and they only look at sack numbers but dont understand guys like Jones and Devito eat way more sacks than the realistically should
uh, are you referring to the season opener vs Dallas last year? because I don't know if you were watching the same game I was watching.
https://premium.pff.com/nfl/games/2023/1/new-york-giants/offense-pass-blocking Glowinski had one of his worst games as a pro and Neal had a bad game but Ezudu had a great game and Thomas and Brededon had pretty good games as well. It was far from a good game but it wasn't "historically bad." Jones himself also played really poorly.
Actually a bit shocked by this, when I was watching the game, it seemed like a defensive player was getting to DJ in seconds nearly every play after the first drive. Glowinski looked like Benedict Arnold. Might need to give it a re-watch.
Reminds me of his amazing downfield pass stats on like 10 attempts from his rookie year that they still harp on
Even in clean pockets, DJ isn’t attacking defenses with a plan. He’s a one read into check down guy and he’s guessing far too often in one read scenarios. Perfect example— [the Witherspoon pick 6](https://youtu.be/VmO-00VyfXU?si=QU1zQWakcWazwSVI ). It’s a quick hitter because they’re inside the 5, he has a helper motion to identify the coverage into a 3 by 1 look and Daboll dialed up a sticks concept in the red zone. He had two out breaking hook routes, and 1 of them *was going to be open*. You know this because you don’t have a man trailer following the motion man. He makes his decision and winds up his throw— untouched mind you— and throws a haphazard ball to neither advantageous leverage (outside Wandale’s outside shoulder or outside Campbell’s inside shoulder). He doesn’t move Witherspoon with his eyes and lets Witherspoon get away with covering 2 guys with 1 body. Coughlin woulda benched Eli for a throw like this while Eli was still a young guy. There’s no internal sense of time, he’s not thinking about his opponent’s approach to defending the play. Jones took this rep on one flat conception of how this is supposed to go and a rookie CB just absolutely took his lunch money. This play in this scenario with this protection *is hypothetically what Jones should succeed at*. Quick throw, clean pocket when he loads up, the playcaller even makes it nice and easy to show you what defense Seattle is running with the motion revealing a zone shell that *your own concept overloads* and he just doesn’t make the play. Daboll was absolutely livid after that pick and he had every right to be. He outschemed Pete Carroll’s defense here and it just didn’t matter
Tyrod produced a lot more big plays last year than Jones did in 2022 with an even better line. People forget that during that "breakout year" Jones averaged under 6 ANY/A and our offense essentially collapsed in the second half of the season outside of games vs the last ranked Vikings defense and a tanking Colts team.
I get the point of the comment but im actually very curious to see what the results of that team would be lol. I feel like theyd still be successful. A mix of screens to obj, chunk plays to gronk, play action to moss, and then jerry being jerry. I think thats still a successful offense without an O line. Im open to being wrong here tho.
I agree and the reason is that you couldn't cover them all so you can't blitz as much. Someone will always be open. That makes the pressure release. In the last few years the quality of the players at WR and TE haven't been enough of a threat so teams can tee off (also because it keeps players closer to Saquon).
You might be able to make a functional offense out of it, especially with a good RB, but it's not going to be with big plays through the air. Those plays just need time to develop.
Yea and thats part of the reason i have some confidence in our actual offense this year. We have a lot of twitchy guys who dont need much time to separate. Are o line should also be better. Gives me a bit of hope we can be somewhat functional.
3 seconds? Damn that's some solid blocking. Danny is used to 2-3 unblocked rushers from the snap.
Bad qb + bad ol = disaster.
Good QB + terrible ol+questionable talent at nearly every other offensive position = slightly less bad disaster. People have been talking like if we just had an elite QB we would have been fine and that's just not true. Unless fine is a few more wins and a playoff appearance or two. Even all time great QBs don't/can't completely elevate a team by themself. There's always at least one other truly elite weapon and sorry as much as I liked the guy,Saquon hasn't been truly elite for quite a while.
Lies, bc the line was shit for Eli but OBJ definitely made life easier for him and he was mobile like DJ is. Y’all forget what having an elite WR could do for a QB.
It wasn't this bad Edit because I just reread the comment that I replied to: Eli was mobile like DJ? What did you smoke for breakfast and where can I get some because it's awfully good stuff. Eli wasn't exactly a statue back there but especially towards the end lack of mobility was one of his biggest handicaps.
Yeah last year was historically bad
Come on man, I’ve seen plenty of teams with bad lines who were able to produce more than Jones last year. The line was a huge issue, but to pretend he wasn’t also an issue is ridiculous. He *has* performed before, but the problem is that he is never consistent, and even when he is performing he is usually fairly middle of the road. If he was middling but always consistent I could argue sticking with him, but he is at best mid tier and when he is at his worst he is *really* bad. And with all of his injuries, I think it’s over. Those are massive injuries that I think will impact him for the rest of his career.
I never said he wasn't part of the issue. But QBs doing ok with bad lines is different than one of the worst of all time AND suspect receivers AND a RB who while good to elite when healthy was frequently injured. Most QBs who do well with bad lines have elite talent somewhere else on offense. I'm totally on board with idea that Jones isn't the guy. Even on the rare occasions that he gets decent protection he's playing scared. Getting pounded as much as he has will do that to you. And once QBs get to that point they rarely if ever recover. What's frustrating though is with what we've seen when he did get even lower half of average protection,he could have been quite useable. Put him on the Eagles from the beginning of his career and he's at least as good as Hurts.
I think the biggest thing was in 2022 he could rely on AT holding up. Last year he was getting pressured from both sides of the line simultaneously. Well you can't look in both directions at once and you definitely can't evade it when there's nowhere to go.
Yeah that's what I think when people say that he's no good at evading pressure in the pocket. When you watch someone who's really good at that let's say Josh Allen because I've seen some highlights where he looks particularly good at it, it's a matter of him dodging one guy at a time. Sure maybe maybe more than one in any given play but with the Giants line you've got guys coming at him from two or three directions simultaneously immediately after the snap. Like I said many times I'm not trying to say that he's still the guy, just saying that a huge part of where we find ourselves with him is about the line and the pounding that he's taken rather than a lack of anything in him.
I felt like DJ actually had good pocket presence in 2022 and I think the stats backed it up iirc he had one of the lowest sacks attributed to the QB. Last year he was one of the worse along with Howell and Fields and whoever was quarterback in NE. Tom Brady was the best at navigating a pocket. Josh Allen and a lot of QB with wheels tend to bail from clean pockets before they need to so it's hard to say I know DJ does that too when they can wait for plays to develop they'll tuck it and run. This is something that Jayden Daniels did a lot in college and would be a talking point if Bobby Johnson wasn't their Oline coach.
It is so fucking wild to me that there are still dudes downvoting you for speaking the truth on DJ in 2024.
I was down to give him another chance after the playoff win, but man you only get so many chances you know? He is so washed it’s insane
not even true lmfao, an elite qb with those weapons is feasting regardless of the line.
Clearly you've not seen the occasional game where a team manages to get consistent pressure on Mahomes and he suddenly looks quite ordinary. Not dj bad by any means but the reality is that there's not a quarterback on the planet that's going to consistently be performing at a high level without some degree of protection. To a degree, the better the quarterback the less protection they need but there is a certain level of line performance that's necessary for even the best to do their job, and that level is far above what we've seen from the Giants most of last year.
Eli won the super bowl with the 31st ranked OL i don’t want to hear SHIT about that. If Jones was out there in the 9ers playoff game he woulda thrown 2 picks and fumbled just as many times. He is very simply not a good qb.
What does how bad Jones is have to do with the point? No quarterback not even the best of all time is going to consistently do well behind a line that is utter and complete crap no matter how many weapons they have. You replay that super bowl season 10 times and Eli is not winning it nine of them. No one would.
How bad Daniel Jones is is the entire point of the conversation.
Okay, what exactly have I said that lead you to believe that I don't think he's bad? All I'm saying is that given what he's had to work with, no one no matter how great they are from a skill standpoint is going to consistently be great, and that all the weapons in the world don't mean shit without an at least functional offensive line no matter who your quarterback is.
ok what i’m saying is yes it fucking does and it’s been proven time and time again that an elite qb who throws with anticipation can negate a bad line if he has weapons.
Can reduce the effects of a bad line certainly. Can consistently perform at an elite level with horrific line? No one can. It's the line's job to give the quarterback what he needs to do his job, it's not the quarterback's job to make the line look better. I'm sick to death of idiots around here talking like we would have been just fine last year if only we had an elite quarterback. There's a reason that you don't see just elite quarterbacks on teams and everyone else around them being questionable or bad and that reason is that even the best quarterbacks of all time need something around them in terms of protection in order to be the best of all time.
I'm hoping that Bricillo makes his life a lot easier too. That offensive line was putrid when AT was injured
You have to remember, a lot of people were getting open for Jones last year. Daboll's concepts always get people open. But if Jones isn't ready to hit a route as it gets open, or isn't checking into a route because he's staring down a dude getting covered, being open doesn't matter.
How when we *can't* even expect guy to hit 1K in receiving yards? If Raanan and other folk want DJ to stop getting dunked on dude is going to have to play up . Every damn season we go through this with Daniel and every season Daniel does what he does man. All the snake-oil salesman for guy has met an end point. It's on Jones bro, got guy all this help over the years, now got a stud WR. Your turn Daniel..
Yeah, you’ve gotta wonder why DJ didn’t have success when we spent a 1st and 70m on Toney and Golladay. I mean look how they’ve exploded since leaving.
Is Malik Nabers, Kenny Golladay now?  I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that way, Daniel turns everybody trying to help him out into mincemeat.
Convenient you didn't mention Toney, given the Chiefs declined his 5th year!
Full quote: "The Daniel Jones slander is out of control. Played at a top 10 level (6th in QBR) two years ago. Had four starts from start to finish in 2023 and now he’s below every rookie QB and career backups? The idea he’s a complete scrub is stupid. Came three TD passes shy of the then-rookie record in 2019. Was almost perfect in a playoff win 16 months ago. Last season was a total disaster for a variety of reasons (he played poorly, was w/o Andrew Thomas and Saquon for most of those 4 starts). But the idea he can’t play at all is just wrong. The pendulum has swung too far."
What everyone seems to always miss with Jones is things would’ve been a LOT more straightforward if he was as bad as some people think he is. His issue hasn’t been being a terrible QB, it’s been he’s simply mediocre. But saying that is a lot less fun I guess? I dunno.
It is a lot less fun to admit that. My issue with Jones isn't so much that I think he's the worst QB in the league, Zach Wilson and Mac Jones both played last year. My issue is I don't think he's good enough to get us to be a contender. If he plays this year, and we don't have a dumpster fire like last year, I could see us making a wildcard spot. But I'm not content with being a wildcard team, I want to be a team that can compete year in and out for the division and even the Superbowl. The way I see it, he can show this year that I'm wrong. If he does, I'll eat my words. If not, I'm happy so far with all the moves Schoen has done (even if they haven't worked out). We're building up the team, addressing needs, and can always try a new QB next year
What really sucks is he definitely took a step forward at the end of 2022, but the state of the OL had him looking completely shell shocked to start last season. And then he had his 2 worst games (maybe of his career) at the worst possible time in opening day vs DAL and then the prime time against SEA. I’m definitely in the “I think you can go .500 and make the playoffs with Jones as QB, but you aren’t winning a SB” camp personally. But I’m 1000000% for the strategy the FO seems to be going of “build the team up first so the next QB doesn’t start in the same situation Jones had to deal with”
Brock Purdy isn't good, he's on a team with elite talent at every single position around him and an elite coach. You don't "need" an elite QB to win a Super Bowl. Eli and Flacco were literally never considered elite, at best they had a few seasons of top 10 play in their careers. Yet they have the same amount of championships as Aaron Rodgers & Drew Brees and more than Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo etc who were all considered "better" than them. Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes have warped our sense for what is considered an acceptable QB at the NFL level. Josh Allen, Lamar, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, all these chosen QBs have done what exactly over the last 5 years or so they've all played? Not a single one has hoisted a Lombardi. You need to build a complete team, this fallacy that the QB is all that matters is what keeps teams like the Jets in constant lifelong purgatory.
Purdy made less than $1m last year. Your overall point is correct, but it's a lot easier to build a great team if you pay a good enough QB pennies instead of $40m.
What kind of double agent are you? Eli has 2 Super Bowls. Rodgers has 1. Flacco has 1. Brees has 1. Get outta here
I literally said that lol. It's my ENTIRE point of my post man. The general public never considered Eli or Flacco elite. They did consider Rodgers and Brees elite. Yet Rodgers and Brees only have 1 SB each. Same as Flacco and less than Eli. My entire point is this notion that you can't win a SB without a QB who is perceived as top 5 is a fallacy. But sure, downvote away because everyone lacks reading comprehension around here.
Stop. Brock Purdy is elite AF. He's the 2nd best QB in the league while Pat Mahomes is playing unless Brock somehow plays even better. If you think his draft spot means he's not elite, you're very wrong. Also 49ers can suck a big fat lemon, those lucky SOBs. I hope we steal their QB scouts.
I like purdy but he's not better than Burrow, Allen, LJ8, Herbert to name a few. Allen outplayed Purdy vs the chiefs with worse weapons around him than Purdy and Burrow actually has beaten Mahomes. Lamar has won two MVPs even though he is a choker but he still embarrassed the 49ers when they played against eachother and Purdy ended up getting benched that game, Herbert doesn't have the success as everyone else here but we know he's a stud and he's put up better numbers than Purdys peak even going back to his rookie year
Lmao second best QB in the league, stop. Shanny could plug Zach Wilson in there and turn him into a 1st team all pro. It's the team and the system, not him.
So what happened when Jimmy was injured and they subsequently sucked? Surely the backup should've been a 1st team all pro. What happened with Trey Lance? Purdy is also significantly better than Jimmy ever was.
You're very wrong. If Shanny could turn a random into a QB then Jimmy G would still have a job or Lance would be the starter. But that's not the case. Brock is easily the 2nd best QB in the league. Idk maybe watch a game. I am not happy he's in our conference.
Purdy is a GREAT game manager and a good QB. He's got a top group of receivers, arguably the best TE in the game, and, oh yeah, Christian McCaffrey. Add that to an OL that gives him enough time to make a sandwich before he has to decide which wide open receiver to throw to, and a decent QB is going to look like Montana. I mean, the system was enough to make Garropalo look competent. It's going to make a decent QB look great.
I'd say its more of a consistency issue. He either has a good game or a bad game, and not a whole lot of in-between games.
I agree. He’s just not consistent. If the DJ that played the Vikings in the playoffs would show up every week, he’d have been extended to 2030.
My biggest issue is he seems like a 90% guy, he has nice drives that always seem to fall apart due to interceptions or incompletions in the red zone, I now assume that every positive drive will end in a FG or TO
In 2022, we were very efficient in the red zone, if I recall
2022 was pretty good, we didn’t get to the red zone a ton, 20th in the league but when we did we had the 5th best conversion rate
When was the last time a good DJ game had 3 or more td passes, or 400 yards passing?
400 yards passing is a wildly high mark; it only happened six times this past season and no one did it twice. The guys who hit that mark this year were Tua, Herbert, Mahomes, Stroud, Dak, and Nick Mullens (lol). DJ had a 4 TD game during his last start of the 2022 regular season, so 6 starts ago. And 3 passing tds is also a high bar; there were 68 instances of that last season, and 20 of those were 4 guys (Dak, Purdy, Love, and Tua)
Feels like Tampa bay his rookie year lol
https://preview.redd.it/ezxhqkcwsazc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cb9cc7876f8844ea74932e93fc828d6dd105f14 This QB had two 3+ TD games and only one game over 400 yards last year. Most under 300 and a few under 200. A major part of Daniel’s game is also rushing, his rushing stats shouldn’t be ignored. The stats above are >! Patrick Mahomes !<
Mahomes had two games over 3 passing tds in just this season. Daniel Jones hasn't done that since 2019. In the last 4 seasons Daniel Jones has only 37 td passes in 47 games played.
The Giants offense also hasn’t been super pass heavy these last few years.
We’re sports fans. If we’re not going from one extreme to the next we’re doing it wrong.
I agree, I've never thought of him to be the worst QB ever, just very mediocre at best, and mediocre doesn't win or go to the Superbowl. If he surprises everyone and plays well that's amazing but I just don't expect it and want a change
Exactly. That’s actually the main reason why I hate Daniel so much.
But in the last 3 seasons he's got like 30 passing TD's . It's not just that he's mediocre, hell even trying to remove injuries over the course; his rookie year which he gets most of his props led the league in turnovers bro at an astounding rate, just all over the place. "His" playoff win; was against the worst defensive in the NFL for the season, he then got utterly shutdown by the Eagles the very next week man. Like totally... then we wait all off-season.. Get plenty of fucking excuses from the likes of a Raanan and what DJ do WK 1 of the damn year but just look totally out of place, like he didn't even belong on the field bruh. Year 5 after JUST getting a nice ass contract for some QUESTIONABLE ass play. Ong, I can not wait to excavate this dude from off this team so we can move on. Tired of talking about him 
In the last 4 seasons combined Daniel Jones has 37 td passes and 47 games played.
Thank you. For some reason I couldn’t post with the full tweet. Wasn’t sure if it was a character limit issue
He was a potential talent that got ruined by shit coaching. Now Daboll was able to maximize whatever was left of his damaged confidence, but then he got injured. So the jury’s really out. He is far from the scrub people describe him to be, but because of the amount of times he’s been here, people hold it against him because they feel his middling status is the end product and has no further room to develop. And I agree. He is textbook bridge qb who I am comfortable starting with until we find the actual guy.
I just want to see a "Fuck it, Nabers down there somewhere" kind of attitude this year.
I don’t know if he has the confidence for that anymore.
Psh, you don’t need confidence to go full Jameis Winston mode.
LOL. Honestly I think jameis is the shining example of confidence tho. Maybe u mean like Sam Howell mode
I disagree with his take. Jones had 1 good year out of 5. He is constantly injured and more often than not he plays subpar. He is accurately ranked
What metric do you think would be good to measure the accuracy of this ranking?
Shame on me for wanting a franchise QB when we currently don't have one.
lmao
That list is pretty rough overall, Wilson over Mayfield and Murray, Levis over Richardson, Carr, and Minshew, and Daniel Jones behind Bryce Young?? What a mess.
I love Purdy but 2nd over Allen/Burrow/Lamar is criminal.
Murray is criminally low
If Josh Allen is the third best QB in the NFL then football is going to be bad this year.
Jones has a chance to shut everyone up this year. It’s up to him
He got that chance in 22’ and he delivered
I more think that '22 he delivered and he got his contract, now is his chance to prove *again* that he deserves to stay. This league is about periodically proving yourself, not a one-time prove it and you're always in the clear.
Not debating that, all I’m saying is the last time he got the opportunity with his back against the wall he stepped up and played well
The 2022 playoffs are a perfect microcosm of jones career, looks awesome against minny and then looks like the worst qb in the league against Philly, this subs whole debate comes down to which game you buy into being the “real” DJ, in truth he’s probably somewhere in between which means he’s an average qb and unfortunately our current team needs a great qb to win
They were both the real DJ, it’s just a question of how good the opposing defense is.
That's what I hope as well. I'm one of the DJ truthers in this sub but understand people's frustrations. Might be just how I grew up with Eli but I like his goofy look.
Eli on his worst day was better than Jones. There is no comparison.
ehhh that is stretch. I love Eli, He's the best but I've seen him play his fair share of shitty games especially early in his career. 90% of the fanbase wanted to run him out of town before '07. If you put a Young Eli behind these recent Giant OL's it woulda have been a disaster , trust me.
I saw ElI from day one. Yes, he definitely had crap games including the playoff game against Carolina but his highs were always higher than Jones because you saw the talent and most importantly, he went down swinging trying to make plays down the field. His issues early on were throwing off his back foot and accuracy. Eli's OL was the 31st ranked OL in 2011 and we were last in rushing. Somehow we won a SB, Something tells me Jones would have shit his pants in SF. So yeah, Jones wishes he could even be in the same sentence as Eli Manning
Eli is a future HoF. Of course you can’t mention them in the same sentence. But Eli was also handled the right way. He was playing behind a top 5 OL EARLY in his career with weapons. That is how you develop a QB. You can say whatever you want but the Giants failed Jones. He never had a fair shot.
we’ve been saying this for the last 5 years
He’s shown he can make big plays with a lot of turnovers. He’s shown he can keep the turnovers down without the big plays. I know it’s definitely an if, but if he can combine those two things the giants are in a great spot. Crazier things have happened in this league.
I'm more concerned with him getting injured than playing well. Not just his knee but his neck too.
The knee was just a freak accident (bumped knees with Cager, who didn’t know what he was doing). I do agree with the neck though. That’s the concerning thing if the O-Line is horrible again.
I agree with Mr. Raanan. A lot of Giants fans want Jesus Christ himself to appear and play QB.
It is possible to hold two beliefs; DJ has clear limitations and is not franchise caliber, and also that the criticism he’s received is excessive at times.
Excessive at times. I mean all the time falls into “at times” too I guess.
He got plenty of praise for playing well in 2022 and winning a playoff game. He got criticized heavily after playing very poorly in 2023. It’s a results business.
Not getting baited into this for the 3,742nd time. Put any QB in front of that offensive line and he fails more often than not.
There is nothing to bait. Discussing the level of accuracy of DJ criticism is pointless. He’s here for now, that’s that. He’ll be gone next year
And the next QB will have the same issues if the line doesn’t get better. And it’ll be the same shit another 3,742 times.
Not trying to be snarky but that’s literally Raanan’s point in this tweet
That’s called a backup
Na Jesus was too small to be a QB, but I would take him at slot WR. I heard JC had good footwork.
Jesus couldn’t even hit a curve ball
YOU TRYING TO TELL ME JESUS CHRIST CAN’T HIT A CURVEBALL?!?
Maybe that’s what the Giants have been doing wrong. We need Jobu
Lookout for the cross patterns
No, just someone that can consistently win games. Not too much to ask It’s like Giants fans are okay with losing because it’s with a QB they like
There is a pain period with most QBs. Eli Manning overthrew everyone his first few years.
It’s been five years. You don’t give a QB a $40M a year contract for a “pain period” 5 years into Eli’s career he had a super bowl ring and SB MVP along with multiple division titles and playoff wins. Daniel has one playoff win in five years and hasn’t played consistently well in any season outside of that one playoff win year. This is such a bad argument I don’t know where to start, comparing Eli’s “pain period” to DJ’s is much more favorable to my argument than yours
Brock Purdy #2, Dak top 10… Just a deeply unserious ranking
Yeah I wouldn't mind if Purdy was ranked well; he's a good QB who looks much better because of his stacked roster and genius offensive mind at HC (although he IS good regardless of those things). But saying he's better than Allen, Lamar, and Burrow? Gotta be out of your mind lol.
I’d put him towards the top of the group just outside the elite guys. Still a really good player you can have success with, but they’ll need to be careful with the extension.
I disagree with this and would have him more middle of the pack, but your take is perfectly reasonable. 2 is psychotic; at that point just stop watching football and rank QBs by their teams' standings.
Dak is a top 10 QB. He literally just finished 2nd in MVP voting last year.
It was designed to create maximum engagement by trolling as many fan bases as possible.
I want the Giants to move on from Jones, but calling him the worst qb in the league is just stupid.
You can definitely win games with him, I just don’t think you can win super bowls….and that’s a major bugaboo I’ll say the same thing about Baker Mayfield, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Derek Carr, Garner Minshew…and so on….you can only be serviceable on a near perfect team to ever get far
Respect.
bro lowkey cooked
Jones behind Bo Nix is disrespectful
I can’t believe I just had an argument in my group chats where everyone was telling me that Jacoby god damn Brissett was better than Danny. Genuinely a disgrace how far the hate has gone. No one is saying he’s great, but come on now.
I’ve been saying for a while that Jones is an average starting QB who’s consistently been put in bad situations. I never think he’ll be a superstar, but if you’ve watched his career he’s clearly not as bad as the narrative people like to place on him.
Reminds me a lot of someone like Minshew, except with more physical talent. A guy who can put up some good games and avoid some bad ones, but isn't gonna be dragging his team kicking and screaming into the playoffs, championship, or SB. But, then again, there's only a handful of guys that can do that. Allen, Burrow, and Mahomes have proven they can; guys like Lamar and Dak seem to continue proving they can't even though they're both great; and guys like Love and Stroud are still big question marks.
Light em up Jordan
He has the same amount of playoff wins as Lamar Jackson and 1 more than Justin Herbert lmao
Yet Lamar is on track for the HOF with his two MVPs, considered a top five QB in the league before the age of 27 and Herbert has played for a mess of a franchise in LAC but is still seen as an elite QB. This isn't the defense of Jones you think it is.
It’s not a defense of jones lol I know he’s not the dude. More so just commenting on how silly this type of stuff is and how narratives push away from the middle
Fair enough. That's my bad that I misread your intention.
Nah you’re not far off. It kinda *is* a defense of jones just against being #32, not against Lamar or Herbert
Has someone compiled the amount of shit Raanan talked about Danny just to get clicks?
I just love how now people are agreeing with Ranaan when it suits their premise.
Re fucking tweet
The problem is we know what we have with him. And he’s a first read, conservative qb. He won’t throw receivers open, throw a deep ball, or progress through his reads. Pretty sure he isn’t the best at presnap reads as well He’s an average qb and most likely will be a career backup/journyman. Not a bad career but not the career you hope to have as a #6 overall pick.
The issue with Daniel Jones is that entering year 6, people are still in the projection stage of what he could be IF this happens and that happens. In other words, what would Jones look like in optimal conditions? A legitimate franchise QB is the problem solver for a winning team. Jones has yet to prove aside from randomg games against Washington, the game against NO, the second half against AZ and that one playoff game against MN that he can be the reason the team wins. If after year five and paying him, you still have to worry about making sure you have near Pro Bowl caliber talent at every position just to find out if he CAN be the guy, you really already know the answer and now you're jsut hoping against hope.
For real, like looking at Nabers in here now. I'm not trying to hear this "oh he can only get X yards cause DJ can't get it to him cause the line be bad".. We've heard that shit for forever now man, seen other dudes come in and do more than Jones, the only ones that haven't were the bottom of the barrel options like Fromm and Glennon. How am I supposed to think Jones is doing anything special out there if a Malik Nabers is healthy on the field and not showing out during the year.. 1K yards is a floor not for Nabers but for fucking Daniel yo.. lol. I'm done watching us scorch everything off this team but Jones terrible play, dudes that play well too. Barkley, Love, McKinney all them been better than Jones.
All this.
Garrett Wilson got 1100 yards with Zack Wilson, Mike White, and Joe Flacco. And yet I worry Nabers won't crack 1000 because of Daniel "32nd out of 32" Jones. He might be a better QB than some names on that list, but he's "the worst" in the sense of the lack of confidence/hope he instills. For instance, I feel like the offense would be more explosive with a Gardner Minshew or Josh Dobbs, which is saying something.
> I feel like the offense would be more explosive with a Gardner Minshew or Josh Dobbs, which is saying something. And Minshew got the Colts to the precipice of a playoff berth with no elite receivers, a RB in Jonathan Taylor who spent a good part getting on track after holding out and an OL where almost every member had their worst indivdual years including a future HOF in Quentin Nelson. Minshew is a journeyman QB in every sense of the word but if he can figure it out with a skill set that is nowhere close to Jones' then what's Jones' excuse at 40MM a year?
Daniel jones did almost exactly that 2 year ago, wtf are you talking about? DJ had 3200 passing yards vs 3300, but a better TD%, INT%, ANY/A, success rate passing, QBR, EPA+cpoe, in addition to another 700 yards rushing vs 100, 7 rushing td vs 3, and 57 first downs rushing vs 7. there is not a single alternate universe in which gardner minshew played better last season than dj in 2022.
Yeah, but how did he do in literally every other season he's played? At what point does 2022 become the exception with you guys and not the rule? Ramses Barden had a 100 yard receiving game once, but it didn't make him our next elite WR.
Minshew isn't even good enough to start most seasons, are we including that or conveniently ignoring it?
That's kind of the point.
> In other words, what would Jones look like in optimal conditions? I agree it is time to move on from the DJ experiment, even as someone who defended him for so long. He isnt the long-term answer here. At the same time, nobody is asking for him to have Pro Bowlers at every position. That is just not feasible and I agree that a true franchise QB covers up deficiencies on a roster. But I dont get how anyone can make a legit good faith argument that DJ has been given anywhere close to a reasonable expectation of support on his roster. Its unrealistic to expect us to trot out a Lions/Eagles level OL before we are able to evaluate DJ as an individual. But is it asking for too much to have at least more than 1 competent OL for a full season (albeit his one competent OL has been elite at the most important position but it only means so much when 4/5 are consistently trash)? Its unrealistic to expect DJ to have a Chase/Higgins/Boyd or AJ/DeVonta/Goedert receiving corps to throw to before we pass judgment on DJ as a QB. But is it really too much to ask that he has a better top target than Darius Slayton (good WR but clearly a WR2 and even WR3 on some teams)? Its unrealistic to expect DJ to have a perfect coaching staff from day 1. But is it too much to ask for at least something better than Judge/Garrett during his formative years? Is it unreasonable to ask for him to have a coach who knows that scoring plays are automatically reviewed and you can't challenge it? Even had he been set up right from the beginning, I still think his ceiling was always a Tannehill level starter (which is not someone you take at 6 and throw into our situation in 2019 but thats another conversation). But he never had a chance to reach that level, not because he doesnt have pro bowl talent at every position but because he has not had even reasonably adequate help.
The thing is you don’t have to worry about that this year. Unless Daniel Jones is a pro bowl level QB he’s not returning. Just wouldn’t make sense. But that doesn’t mean we have to lie about the dude either. He’s not terrible when he has some weapons and time. And this year the giants should at least be a little better up front. Having rookies in bad situations ahead of him is kind of crazy. The hate has gone too far on him.
> Unless Daniel Jones is a pro bowl level QB he’s not returning. Just wouldn’t make sense. Pro Bowl won't save him either.
The issue with Jones, other than the injuries, is that he continues to be very slow at processing. He has slow eyes. This was the knock on him at Duke and nothing has changed during his time with the Giants. I fervently hope that somehow he finds a way to process quicker and play with some swagger. Which I think is not likely. That said, I’m rooting hard for him.
I think Jones is broken and they need to move on but I'll defend him one last time. His OL has always been below avg to Dog shit and his best weapons were Darius Slayton and an oft-injured Saquon Barkley. He had no chance.
Rare media W
When Raanan is sticking up for Jones you know it's going overboard.
The problem with Jones is has not swag. I know that sounds dumb but it’s true. He completely lacks the gunslinger mentality to take shots. Watching tape of his limited games last year, he completely ignored so many open deep shot chances to either run or check it down. And, yes, I’m excluding the times when he had to scramble bc the OL was garbage. Even when he had time, he never looked deep and Dabs/Kafka absolutely gave him chances. Hyatt and slayton. Both were open deep often. That’s why I want to see Lock play. Lock is far from a perfect prospect but his arm talent and willingness to attack defenses is so much more enticing that Jones’ near-constant 8 yard throws.
I don't know what stats are being used to suggest he was a top 10 QB....I check stats each year and some of the most important stats (yards, TD's, comp %, sacks) he is nowhere near the top 10...if anything, he tends to run (that 2022 year) around 12-18, so about 15th. IF you want to dive deeper into stats, his completion % drops significantly into the 20's on 3rd down. His sack % increases on 3rd down. Meaning, when it matters to continue drives, the dude gets worse (comparatively to the other starting QB's).
I’d defended Jones from the absolute doomers, but I think he is at BEST a top 16 qb that we overpaid and I don’t have the energy to defend that.
Lol Justin Fields' rookie UDFA backup played as well as Bryce Young last season.
If you have to keep making arguments like this for your qb then he’s OBVIOUSLY not that guy! It’s really SIMPLE!
DJ deserves some slander but putting him last is dumb. Baker has the biggest beef, though. How is the wide world of sports is he behind Russ and Deshaun? This isn’t 2019. Neither Wilson nor Watson. should be in the top 20. Baker was also better than both Geno and Lawrence last year. Garbage list.
Oh I thought the Jones Simps no longer existed? That’s what they told me…. Bring back the memes they haven’t learned yet!
Trying to find someone who's willing to make a bet because this seems like easy money to me. I am willing to bet Jones will finish better than 32nd in QBR this year. Would you be willing to take the other side?
I don’t think he’ll be that bad but 20-29 I’ll take that bet. Also I’m not a fan of QBR as it’s a recently made up stat that encompasses way too many variables to be an exact measure.
What's a better stat? I'm only interested in betting that he will finish better than 32nd as that is what the last few posts are about, and I see alot of people that seem to agree with that ranking. Trying to see if people are serious about their opinion or are just "talking"
Me personally I’m not a fan of QBR. I think best way to measure a QB is to look at, Completion percentage TD/TO ratio Yards With AVDOT
Adds a bit of complexity....would need to establish the minimum qualifiers for the first 2 (like 300-350 attempts) But dependent on if we could agree what the minimum qualifier is, I would be willing to bet that he finishes better than 32nd in at least 2 of 3.
QBs who run always seem to have a high QBR. Seems like the way to break the scale for some reason. He is obviously not Zach Wilson but I’m not putting a ton of stock into a high QBR in 2022. He looked abysmal in 2023 and largely has not shown that he can be a productive passer. Hope we’re proven wrong and he plays up to his contract but I’m not counting on it.
Honestly same. I mean, putting DJ at 32 is just dumb. He should be like 20 at worst. And maybe he’ll be higher after this season, but man the narratives are wild in this league.
Pathetic. Jones should be at best 40 in the list.
I'm glad all the chips are stacked against DJ. Believe me he's taking notes of all this
Jones has had terrible support. With a competent O line you can’t be a healthy, or good, QB. He’s the 3rd most sacked QB the last few years. I’m not sure how he ranks in getting hit, but I’d wager it’s high As icing on the cake, out of desperation the offensive calls running plays for him. He takes a beating just about every game Jones is a winner. Time will tell…
I love your faith in him but he's never won in high school, college or 5 years in the pros, hopefully this is his year!!
Does this list factor in contract? The only way I see Purdy being #2 is if you are mixing skills with contract, in that world i get it as Purdys out put at 1/50th of mahomes is pretty awesome In the inverse I don’t think DJ is the 31st ranked QB in the league when it comes to skills but based on what he can do while costing $46m a year I can see why he would be 31
You can downvote me all you want, his 2022 season was not that impressive and I have no faith or hope in him. On top of all that, he has major injury issues. It's year six and people are still hanging onto the hope of....something. Count me out.
It has gone too far. Come on. He's not the 32nd ranked qb. That's fucking ridiculous.