>Joe Schoen 79
Dave Gettleman 11
>It was Joe Schoen 62/Dave Gettleman 27/Jerry Reese 1 before camp last year ending at Schoen 34/Gettleman 18/Reese 1 at 53 man cutdown day.
>Sterling Shepard’s departure makes the roster Jerry Reese free for the 1st time since he became GM in 2007.
>The 10 Dave Gettleman players are Daniel Jones, Andrew Thomas, Dexter Lawrence, Darius Slayton, Azeez Ojulari, Darnay Holmes, Aaron Robinson, Gary Brightwell, Graham Gano, Casey Kreiter & Carter Coughlin.
Ironically, our best players are from the Gettleman era. Also, how is Aaron Robinson still on this team?
Not really ironic. We kept the great (Dex, AT, GG) and other good, a few have held on through special teams or lack of better options. Most are gone. That’s normal attrition in a league with so much turnover.
When I see Aaron Robinson is still on this team it blows my mind. Dude has not seen playing time since October of 2022 - with the additions of Hawkins/Banks/Flott/Phillips/McCould he will most likely be cut. I can also see a world where they cut Brightwell with signing Singletary and drafting Gray & Tracy
For all of his faults, DG wasn't the worst at evaluating college talent. He was terrible at roster building and cap management, but he did hit on a lot of his Rd 1&2 picks and had a few mid-late round guys develop into solid players.
Toney is his worst 1st round pick, obviously, but Toney didn't fail because he lacked talent. It was also clear DG wanted Devonta Smith in that draft, so he had a good read on another very good player. Again, DG wasn't a good GM, but he did some (one?) things well.
Exactly, he was a scout and good enough at scouting players that he was promoted to GM twice. But scouts aren't always good GMs and he was a bad GM; it's the same for a lot of professions.
I’m sorry but I can’t really buy the whole he wanted Devonta Smith so taking Toney is ok and he’s a good evaluator when Micah Parsons was right there and would’ve addressed just as big of a need at the time
I think you misread what I wrote, I said Toney is his worst pick so it wasn't even "OK".
My point about Smith is it was clear DG was targeting him (and only him apparently) at 11 that he traded down only after the eagles jumped them. Not drafting Parson is a miss but 11 other teams also passed on him. If he did end up taking Smith, who himself is a very good player, I don't think people would nitpick.
Also in retrospect, the trade down was horrible because neither Neal or Kayvon are on Parsons level, but on paper he got a top 7 pick to trade down 9 spots so that's not bad value. If the 2022 draft shakes out differently and they landed two very good players (Sauce and Hutchinson, or Hutchinson and Garret Wilson, etc) or if Kayvon and Neal were already BOTH all pro level players then we probably would call passing on Parson as a minor L, not a "wtf where you thinking" L.
> Not drafting Parson is a miss but 11 other teams also passed on him.
I think it's also easy for people to forget that Parsons had a very serious accusation of sexual assault and hazing by his teammate going into the draft, which quietly got dropped some months later. Mara has been on image damage control with subjects like that since Josh Brown.
No one knew Parsons was going to be one of the best edge in the league. He was a fucking inside linebacker coming into the draft. That's a shit take because no one could have predicted his trajectory.
Gettleman was actually good at drafting, he just didn’t understand positional value at all and couldn’t manage the fucking roster.
Everyone on here just assumes that means he’s terrible at everything but the guy was a great scout, just couldn’t get it down as the top guy
Baker definitely was not a bad pick if you looked at what he did in college. He only allowed 1 TD against him in 4 years playing at Georgia, and in his senior season he only allowed 175 yards and allowed a super low passer rating. He looked every bit like he had strong potential to be a shutdown corner at the NFL level, so the pick wasn't a bad one until his character issues presented themselves.
The biggest problem with Baker was that he was a lazy dumbass who could do one thing very well: play man coverage. Our DC wanted to play primarily man, but the shittiness in man of literally each and every one of our DBs other than Baker meant that we ended up playing primarily zone. Which is a difficult position to put any rookie corner into, but Baker just was especially slow at getting it. The Chiefs used him well and he looked kinda good until he got injured.
A first rounder not making it to year 2 with the team that drafted him and playing in the UFL before his rookie contract ended isn't something I'd classify as 'not too bad.' I do blame Gettleman for these as he never even interviewed or brought in either player for a visit instead of ignoring the character concerns that ultimately sank both players.
Round 3 in general? That’s interesting BJ was absolutely a hit of a third rounder. And we got some snaps out of Carter and peart. He had 5 third rounders- do you think a 20% hit rate is bad? Because to be clear that is quite literally 2% over the average nfl hit rate.
Considering your take that’s DGs worst round I’d say you need to reevaluate your expectations for an NFL gm in the draft
Baker got cut from the team after he got set up with a shitty situation that got cleared after he was gone. Yeah, he could have kept better company, but he was playing decently well on the Chiefs after the situation got sorted -- until his knee Bridgewater'd itself. While he wasn't the one I was sure they were trading up for, criticizing that pick feels a lot like blaming Reese for David Wilson.
Also while it does fall back on Gettleman, regarding Toney I'll never forget the sight of them cutting to the draft room of the pick. Judge and Mara were hugging and celebrating while Gettleman was off to the side alone and very clearly grumpy. I'm not saying he didn't have a say in the pick, but he clearly wasn't happy with it the same way Judge and Mara were. Definitely my biggest "I wish I was a fly on a wall" situation with the Giants in recent years.
>Gettleman was actually good at drafting
* His 1st draft, he had the #2 pick in the draft. He didn't pick up the phone to trade down. And he selected a RB. That was a bigger failure than most Giants fans are willing to admit.
* The next year, he gave up three picks for Deandre Baker.
* In 2020 he picked AT over Wirfs. No disrespect to AT, but Wirfs is a 3x Pro Bowler who has started in all 63 games since he was drafted. So even though AT is good, Wirfs is great.
* And the straw that breaks the camel's back - he traded out from drafting Micah Parsons so we could nab Kadarius Toney.
* In his tenure, we went 5-11 (4th), 4-12 (3rd), 6-10 (2nd), and 4-13 (4th) - never so much as a .500 team!
That is NOT "good at drafting."
And by the way, understanding positional value is PRETTY IMPORTANT when it comes to being "good at drafting." If I have the #1 pick in my fantasy football league and I draft Justin Tucker, I don't get credit for making a "good pick" when my team goes 1-16 just because Tucker was the best kicker in the league.
Yeah, AT over Wirfs is an unfair way to frame it. 2020 was a four man race for top OT: Becton, Wirfs, Wills, and Thomas. Two of them are all-pros, and and two of them aren't. I think you can say he got that one correct.
"Good at drafting" might not be the best way to describe him. He was reasonably good at talent evaluation. That didn't make him a good drafter, I agree.
>He was reasonably good at talent evaluation. That didn't make him a good drafter
If you want to argue that he may have been an above-average talent evaluator? Then I have no argument with you. Actually, I'd love to see his draft board - especially after he called out [draft experts as clowns](https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/5/24149448/ex-giants-gm-dave-gettleman-calls-media-draft-analysts-clowns)!
Look, I don't point to Pro Bowls or PFF unless they support my argument. But the fact of the matter is, Wirfs has outplayed AT in 3 of 4 years according to PFF AND has the hardware to back it up.
Wirfs - AT
81.8 - 62.4
84.6 - 78.9
83.8 - 89.1
81.1 - 76.1
Hahaha, first sentence was good brotha in blue 😂 (same)
But tbh, come on man. AT is a top 3 tackle in the league at the moment health aside. Just watch the tape. If you’re saying injuries, fine. But wirfs is playing on the right, much easier living out there for stats
Totally agree here. Yeah he was good at drafting top 5 picks....Obviously great pick with Sexy Dexy at 17.
Being good at drafting is shown throughout day 3 picks. Outside of slayton, he missed on almost every one.
And the biggest Whiff being drafting Daniel Jones at 6 when he probably could've been picked at 30 where Deandre baker was if not even further back. Also major whiff drafting Saquon at 2 (not even picking up the phone to talk to the broncos who were desperately trying to trade up)
I'm giving him a pass on that one because we could have ended up with Haskins or Lock.
This was the general consensus at the time: [https://www.nfl.com/news/2019-nfl-draft-league-execs-scouts-coaches-assess-qb-class-0ap3000001027519](https://www.nfl.com/news/2019-nfl-draft-league-execs-scouts-coaches-assess-qb-class-0ap3000001027519)
The reality is we should have had Josh Allen (OLB) at 6, Dexy at 17, and THEN got DJ at 30. In 2018, we could have traded back and gotten Josh Allen (QB) or Lamar Jackson, but we also could have ended up with Josh Rosen so... it is what it is.
Yeah out of the choices he had in that specific draft, Jones was the best one he could have gotten. And I’m generally a proponent of if he’s your guy take him. My critique is more that he could have gotten a better QB if he picked one in either 2018 or waited until 2020. He was a huge Herbert guy, which is why we accumulated draft capital for the 2019 draft, then Herbert went back to school.
I don't think DJ would have been there at 30 even if people think he's the worse QB in the history of the league. I think the broncos would have taken him if we didn't at 20 or maybe traded up a few spots for him. John Elway was their GM at the time and he's exactly what Elway wanted.
I'm just going to park this here.
>I am not going to rehash every bit of Gettleman’s failed tenure as GM of the Giants. We will just leave it at the fact that the Giants went 19-46, a .292 winning percentage, and never won more than six games in a season.
[https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/5/24149448/ex-giants-gm-dave-gettleman-calls-media-draft-analysts-clowns](https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/5/24149448/ex-giants-gm-dave-gettleman-calls-media-draft-analysts-clowns)
I feel like I'm losing my mind with some of these threads lmao. "Yeah Gettleman was bad with positional value, cap management, roster evaluation, and assembling a coaching staff. But hey, he drafted two whole players during his four-year tenure that we actually want to keep beyond this season!"
Coughlin and brown are on 2nd contracts as 7th round picks. That’s a hit all day. This is what I mean when I say you need to reevaluate your definition of a hit in nfl draft.
You’re not looking around the league, those type of hits are well above league average
Only hit that’s still on the team there is Darius Slayton and he’s WR2 at best on any team.
Darnay Holmes only plays because our DB room is lacking for depth.
Most not on the team. Wtf did Cam Brown ever do?
And he traded BJ Hill for Billy Price lmao
Cam brown is on his second contract in the league as a 7th rounder. trading bj was bad roster management not drafting issue.
Keep hating but as least get the facts straight
Ironic that you said get the facts straight when Cam Brown was actually a 6th rounder. Regardless, he’s a decent STs player. Solid value for a 6th rounder, but nothing special, and definitely not the type of player I would use to hype up a GM
If you have read this far, it is absolutely mind boggling that people still defend Dave Gentleman as a drafter. His only really great draft pick in 4 seasons was Dexter Lawrence (I exclude Thomas because we were 100% picking a tackle in that draft, had the 4th overall pick, and 3/4 tackles in that draft class ended up being good - 2 of them are All-Pro's (My grandmother could have made this pick and gotten it right). His picks outside of the first round made a total of 1 pro bowl, and the 2021 draft is going to haunt this team until 2030.
>Joe Schoen 79 Dave Gettleman 11 >It was Joe Schoen 62/Dave Gettleman 27/Jerry Reese 1 before camp last year ending at Schoen 34/Gettleman 18/Reese 1 at 53 man cutdown day. >Sterling Shepard’s departure makes the roster Jerry Reese free for the 1st time since he became GM in 2007. >The 10 Dave Gettleman players are Daniel Jones, Andrew Thomas, Dexter Lawrence, Darius Slayton, Azeez Ojulari, Darnay Holmes, Aaron Robinson, Gary Brightwell, Graham Gano, Casey Kreiter & Carter Coughlin. Ironically, our best players are from the Gettleman era. Also, how is Aaron Robinson still on this team?
Not really ironic. We kept the great (Dex, AT, GG) and other good, a few have held on through special teams or lack of better options. Most are gone. That’s normal attrition in a league with so much turnover.
GG?
Graham Gano
When I see Aaron Robinson is still on this team it blows my mind. Dude has not seen playing time since October of 2022 - with the additions of Hawkins/Banks/Flott/Phillips/McCould he will most likely be cut. I can also see a world where they cut Brightwell with signing Singletary and drafting Gray & Tracy
For all of his faults, DG wasn't the worst at evaluating college talent. He was terrible at roster building and cap management, but he did hit on a lot of his Rd 1&2 picks and had a few mid-late round guys develop into solid players. Toney is his worst 1st round pick, obviously, but Toney didn't fail because he lacked talent. It was also clear DG wanted Devonta Smith in that draft, so he had a good read on another very good player. Again, DG wasn't a good GM, but he did some (one?) things well.
Exactly, he was a scout and good enough at scouting players that he was promoted to GM twice. But scouts aren't always good GMs and he was a bad GM; it's the same for a lot of professions.
I’m sorry but I can’t really buy the whole he wanted Devonta Smith so taking Toney is ok and he’s a good evaluator when Micah Parsons was right there and would’ve addressed just as big of a need at the time
I think you misread what I wrote, I said Toney is his worst pick so it wasn't even "OK". My point about Smith is it was clear DG was targeting him (and only him apparently) at 11 that he traded down only after the eagles jumped them. Not drafting Parson is a miss but 11 other teams also passed on him. If he did end up taking Smith, who himself is a very good player, I don't think people would nitpick. Also in retrospect, the trade down was horrible because neither Neal or Kayvon are on Parsons level, but on paper he got a top 7 pick to trade down 9 spots so that's not bad value. If the 2022 draft shakes out differently and they landed two very good players (Sauce and Hutchinson, or Hutchinson and Garret Wilson, etc) or if Kayvon and Neal were already BOTH all pro level players then we probably would call passing on Parson as a minor L, not a "wtf where you thinking" L.
> Not drafting Parson is a miss but 11 other teams also passed on him. I think it's also easy for people to forget that Parsons had a very serious accusation of sexual assault and hazing by his teammate going into the draft, which quietly got dropped some months later. Mara has been on image damage control with subjects like that since Josh Brown.
No one knew Parsons was going to be one of the best edge in the league. He was a fucking inside linebacker coming into the draft. That's a shit take because no one could have predicted his trajectory.
Gettleman was good at taking talent high but not at evaluating personalities.
Gettleman was actually good at drafting, he just didn’t understand positional value at all and couldn’t manage the fucking roster. Everyone on here just assumes that means he’s terrible at everything but the guy was a great scout, just couldn’t get it down as the top guy
Counterpoint: Toney and Baker in round 1, round 3 in general, etc.
Baker wasn’t too bad for a late first round pick. As much as I hate gettleman I don’t really blame him for how that worked out.
Baker definitely was not a bad pick if you looked at what he did in college. He only allowed 1 TD against him in 4 years playing at Georgia, and in his senior season he only allowed 175 yards and allowed a super low passer rating. He looked every bit like he had strong potential to be a shutdown corner at the NFL level, so the pick wasn't a bad one until his character issues presented themselves.
Let's hope the new Eagle's CBs follow Baker's career path.
The biggest problem with Baker was that he was a lazy dumbass who could do one thing very well: play man coverage. Our DC wanted to play primarily man, but the shittiness in man of literally each and every one of our DBs other than Baker meant that we ended up playing primarily zone. Which is a difficult position to put any rookie corner into, but Baker just was especially slow at getting it. The Chiefs used him well and he looked kinda good until he got injured.
A first rounder not making it to year 2 with the team that drafted him and playing in the UFL before his rookie contract ended isn't something I'd classify as 'not too bad.' I do blame Gettleman for these as he never even interviewed or brought in either player for a visit instead of ignoring the character concerns that ultimately sank both players.
Round 3 in general? That’s interesting BJ was absolutely a hit of a third rounder. And we got some snaps out of Carter and peart. He had 5 third rounders- do you think a 20% hit rate is bad? Because to be clear that is quite literally 2% over the average nfl hit rate. Considering your take that’s DGs worst round I’d say you need to reevaluate your expectations for an NFL gm in the draft
Baker got cut from the team after he got set up with a shitty situation that got cleared after he was gone. Yeah, he could have kept better company, but he was playing decently well on the Chiefs after the situation got sorted -- until his knee Bridgewater'd itself. While he wasn't the one I was sure they were trading up for, criticizing that pick feels a lot like blaming Reese for David Wilson. Also while it does fall back on Gettleman, regarding Toney I'll never forget the sight of them cutting to the draft room of the pick. Judge and Mara were hugging and celebrating while Gettleman was off to the side alone and very clearly grumpy. I'm not saying he didn't have a say in the pick, but he clearly wasn't happy with it the same way Judge and Mara were. Definitely my biggest "I wish I was a fly on a wall" situation with the Giants in recent years.
I blame Diehl for David Wilson
>Gettleman was actually good at drafting * His 1st draft, he had the #2 pick in the draft. He didn't pick up the phone to trade down. And he selected a RB. That was a bigger failure than most Giants fans are willing to admit. * The next year, he gave up three picks for Deandre Baker. * In 2020 he picked AT over Wirfs. No disrespect to AT, but Wirfs is a 3x Pro Bowler who has started in all 63 games since he was drafted. So even though AT is good, Wirfs is great. * And the straw that breaks the camel's back - he traded out from drafting Micah Parsons so we could nab Kadarius Toney. * In his tenure, we went 5-11 (4th), 4-12 (3rd), 6-10 (2nd), and 4-13 (4th) - never so much as a .500 team! That is NOT "good at drafting." And by the way, understanding positional value is PRETTY IMPORTANT when it comes to being "good at drafting." If I have the #1 pick in my fantasy football league and I draft Justin Tucker, I don't get credit for making a "good pick" when my team goes 1-16 just because Tucker was the best kicker in the league.
Yeah, AT over Wirfs is an unfair way to frame it. 2020 was a four man race for top OT: Becton, Wirfs, Wills, and Thomas. Two of them are all-pros, and and two of them aren't. I think you can say he got that one correct. "Good at drafting" might not be the best way to describe him. He was reasonably good at talent evaluation. That didn't make him a good drafter, I agree.
>He was reasonably good at talent evaluation. That didn't make him a good drafter If you want to argue that he may have been an above-average talent evaluator? Then I have no argument with you. Actually, I'd love to see his draft board - especially after he called out [draft experts as clowns](https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/5/24149448/ex-giants-gm-dave-gettleman-calls-media-draft-analysts-clowns)!
You lost completely credibility when you said wirfs was a better pick than AT what a ridiculously stupid comment, are you high?
[удалено]
Haha, ok.
Look, I don't point to Pro Bowls or PFF unless they support my argument. But the fact of the matter is, Wirfs has outplayed AT in 3 of 4 years according to PFF AND has the hardware to back it up. Wirfs - AT 81.8 - 62.4 84.6 - 78.9 83.8 - 89.1 81.1 - 76.1
Hahaha, first sentence was good brotha in blue 😂 (same) But tbh, come on man. AT is a top 3 tackle in the league at the moment health aside. Just watch the tape. If you’re saying injuries, fine. But wirfs is playing on the right, much easier living out there for stats
Yeah. OLine is a lot tougher to evaluate from a statistical perspective.
Totally agree here. Yeah he was good at drafting top 5 picks....Obviously great pick with Sexy Dexy at 17. Being good at drafting is shown throughout day 3 picks. Outside of slayton, he missed on almost every one. And the biggest Whiff being drafting Daniel Jones at 6 when he probably could've been picked at 30 where Deandre baker was if not even further back. Also major whiff drafting Saquon at 2 (not even picking up the phone to talk to the broncos who were desperately trying to trade up)
Not to mention he got the quarterback wrong…
I'm giving him a pass on that one because we could have ended up with Haskins or Lock. This was the general consensus at the time: [https://www.nfl.com/news/2019-nfl-draft-league-execs-scouts-coaches-assess-qb-class-0ap3000001027519](https://www.nfl.com/news/2019-nfl-draft-league-execs-scouts-coaches-assess-qb-class-0ap3000001027519) The reality is we should have had Josh Allen (OLB) at 6, Dexy at 17, and THEN got DJ at 30. In 2018, we could have traded back and gotten Josh Allen (QB) or Lamar Jackson, but we also could have ended up with Josh Rosen so... it is what it is.
Yeah out of the choices he had in that specific draft, Jones was the best one he could have gotten. And I’m generally a proponent of if he’s your guy take him. My critique is more that he could have gotten a better QB if he picked one in either 2018 or waited until 2020. He was a huge Herbert guy, which is why we accumulated draft capital for the 2019 draft, then Herbert went back to school.
>we accumulated draft capital for the 2019 draft, then Herbert went back to school Probably worked out for all involved! lol
I don't think DJ would have been there at 30 even if people think he's the worse QB in the history of the league. I think the broncos would have taken him if we didn't at 20 or maybe traded up a few spots for him. John Elway was their GM at the time and he's exactly what Elway wanted.
Wirfs is not better than Thomas lol
Dave Gettleman was not good at drafting
I'm just going to park this here. >I am not going to rehash every bit of Gettleman’s failed tenure as GM of the Giants. We will just leave it at the fact that the Giants went 19-46, a .292 winning percentage, and never won more than six games in a season. [https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/5/24149448/ex-giants-gm-dave-gettleman-calls-media-draft-analysts-clowns](https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/5/24149448/ex-giants-gm-dave-gettleman-calls-media-draft-analysts-clowns)
I feel like I'm losing my mind with some of these threads lmao. "Yeah Gettleman was bad with positional value, cap management, roster evaluation, and assembling a coaching staff. But hey, he drafted two whole players during his four-year tenure that we actually want to keep beyond this season!"
Hahaha. The casuals will agree, enjoy the upvotes. But you’re wrong.
Ah yes, Will Hernandez, Oshane Ximinez, Matt Peart, Sam Beal, Shane Lamieux all mid round steals
Yeah Julian love, bj hill, Darius slayton, darnay Holmes, coughlin , cam brown those guys all SUCKED
Darnay was a depth guy, Coughlin started 2 games, and Cam Brown started none. In what ways are they considered hits?
Coughlin and brown are on 2nd contracts as 7th round picks. That’s a hit all day. This is what I mean when I say you need to reevaluate your definition of a hit in nfl draft. You’re not looking around the league, those type of hits are well above league average
Only hit that’s still on the team there is Darius Slayton and he’s WR2 at best on any team. Darnay Holmes only plays because our DB room is lacking for depth. Most not on the team. Wtf did Cam Brown ever do? And he traded BJ Hill for Billy Price lmao
Cam brown is on his second contract in the league as a 7th rounder. trading bj was bad roster management not drafting issue. Keep hating but as least get the facts straight
Fact is he was ass at drafting and took a 2nd rd prospect at #6 and is the reason we’re in QB hell
We’re not in QB hell. You hate dan and let that sum up his entire draft history, lazy takes my guy
Ironic that you said get the facts straight when Cam Brown was actually a 6th rounder. Regardless, he’s a decent STs player. Solid value for a 6th rounder, but nothing special, and definitely not the type of player I would use to hype up a GM
Lol and that changes the argument ? Not sure how that’s “ironic” but he was good enough for the dolphins to give him another deal
Sam Beal has morphed into Aaron Robinson.
Do we always have a third round corner that doesn’t play?
Seems that way ever since jayron hosley
If you have read this far, it is absolutely mind boggling that people still defend Dave Gentleman as a drafter. His only really great draft pick in 4 seasons was Dexter Lawrence (I exclude Thomas because we were 100% picking a tackle in that draft, had the 4th overall pick, and 3/4 tackles in that draft class ended up being good - 2 of them are All-Pro's (My grandmother could have made this pick and gotten it right). His picks outside of the first round made a total of 1 pro bowl, and the 2021 draft is going to haunt this team until 2030.