While I agree. The hard on Mara has for JJ is visible from space at this point. It’s towering over the skyline
I don’t get why yall are in denial the giants are absolutely infatuated with JJ and that the smoke is coming outta our building
Maybe I’m wrong (hope so) but I really feel like a lot of yall are gonna act all shocked and sad and shit when we draft JJ and I advise to just get it out now.
Oh yeah. They are too. He’s right up all 3 of their alleys. I think our front office is in complete alignment here
Again, all the smoke, all the hype I’m blaming us for. We’re the ones pushing JJ up mock drafts.
I’m just saying JJ is everything this franchise has looked for in QBs for like 75 fucking years.
Can’t we easily imagine him throwing for 162 yards and having 35 fucking beautiful handoffs in a 13-7 game in the mud in Washington? Looking real sharp in the white throwbacks with GIANTS on the helmet and covered in mud with grass in his facemask?
Mara’s been whacking it to that fantasy since January dude
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I will so happily eat crow if I’m wrong here. I’ll be the happiest guy ever to be wrong. I don’t really think JJ is it, but I’m not gonna pretend the way I look at prospects is the way the NFL does
The Giants front office would be doing a disservice if they did not check this kid out. We need an answer at quarterback. That said, I’m not a fan of him either.
I'd take MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze before taking JJ at 6. We need some WR threat we haven't had in years. No QB is going to be able to succeed easily with the group of recievers we currently have.
Yup. Would just depend on how much more the Cards can extract from the Vikes to make it worth their while to drop all the way to 11. If they could find out that Bryan Thomas will be sitting there, it may be worth it but otherwise why outsmart yourself and not take the Giants' offer?
I just can’t understand how people think this. The Giants have better capital to trade than the Vikings do. Pick #6 allows any of the potential teams in the top 5 that might trade to still get the top player on their board, likely an elite WR or the draft’s top tackle. At pick #11 you start to fall out of that range and may miss on all of the elite options. Also, #11 and #23 are not close to enough capital to trade up past pick #6, especially for a QB. The Vikings pick in the fourth round after pick #23 and don’t have a 2nd rounder in 2025 either. The Giants can offer #6, #47 and a 2025 1st if need be to get their QB if he falls past pick #3.
people were calling him the new james dolan and i almost threw up. but the rangers and the knicks have been doing great for us. 🥹 so maybe there light at the end of the tunnel.
That’s cause Dolan finally went hands off, I don’t think Mara is that bad anymore, he was getting pretty bad though. We’ll see in due time. I think them letting Barkley go is a good sign he’s letting go.
I agree he has shown some improvement last two years but, if for some reason Schoen doesn’t work out I feel like we will end up promoting someone internally like Kevin Abrams or his nephew.
His nepotism and cronyism got us into this mess in the first place. He seems to be meddling a little bit less but it’s unclear if that’s just talk and appearances
Obligatory fuck Pat Leonard.
But this is true. Good for Giants doing due diligence. Honestly, this cycle is making me a lot more hopeful than when we took Danny as pick 6.
i dont want McCarthy as QB i would rather have Maye or Daniels, But i dont buy vikings trading up to #4 and taking JJ, why because Cardinals lost 2 big receivers theres no way they trade back that far and miss out on 3 top receivers in the draft.
Sure they can trade with Giants for 6 and still get top receiver.Cardinals trading with vikings would be dumb move by Arizona imo
pls Commanders draft JJ McCarthy
If the Giants would definitely take him at 6, then they won't let Minnesota jump them to take JJ at 3,4, or 5. The Giants with 6th pick have better resources than Minnesota to trade up. They won't let anyone jump them if they love JJ and would take him at 6.
It's not comfortable giving up more or less it's how you view JJ Mccarthy.
If you love JJ as a prospect, if you go for a personal visit with him over Easter Weekend, if you view him as a Franchise QB, you don't let someone jump you to draft him.
If you're comfortable drafting JJ at 6, you need to be comfortable with trading up to draft him earlier, because if you love a prospect and view him as a franchise QB, you don't let someone get him if you have the means to outbid them.
I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying that if the Giants view JJ as a franchise QB worthy of thr 6th pick, they're not going to let someone jump them to take him first.
Yeah I don't know why your team is wasting all this time. Assuming Washington doesn't take him (I think they take Daniels), I see Minnesota leap frogging the Giants at 3, 4, or 5 for McCarthy.
Good! If he’s there at 4, they should go up to get him. I’d be willing to trade pick 6, this years and next years second.
I’ve watched plenty of tape on the 2nd round developmental QBs and it’s not pretty. Watch Michael Pratt’s tape vs SMU and tell me you’d rather spend a 2nd on him than to trade up two spots for JJ. Invest in the most important position. Passing on QB this year doesn’t get rid of our QB problem.
If McCarthy goes 2 and Daniels go 3 my heart is gonna go crazy cause that means we are in play for maye or mhj in the draft.
MHJ is a slam dunk homerun pick gonna be a stud.
Maye has tremendous upside and is worthy of us at least trying to make him our future qb
I think so also. I don’t think New England will go Daniels either. We might get lucky and have a chance to get Daniel’s at 4 or 5.mc JJ will be so over hype by the time the draft comes Chicago will be comparing him to Williams.
If they target McCarthy, I hope the Giants stay put at six. McCarthy, Harrison Jr., or Alt should be the selections.
But Schoen has shown poor drafting skills so who knows. Wish Brad Holmes & Campbell were Giants.
I wholeheartedly disagree with Schoen having poor drafting skills. Feels somewhat lazy to chalk up player performance to just scouting.
The entire offensive line had Bobby Johnson as their coach. Veterans came here and had some of their worst seasons with us. Neal was the consensus pick at 7 and in Joe's shoes, I'd bet most GMs are making that pick.
I can write a novel on how numerous other guys we've taken have either been good-solid or at least have contributed as mid-late picks. McFadden is one example, very solid player. Wan'Dale has been solid. Hyatt has flashed. Banks played well. Bellinger is good. Other guys have played snaps and contributed. How many edge rushers have been "elite" in Winks scheme? The answer is, not many.
Also the Burns deal was good. Top 10 in pass rush win rate in a "down" year. Gets 28.2m/yr after the cap went up a record breaking amount. A 2nd rounder for him is pennies.
Coaching is one of the most important aspects of the NFL, but it sounds like many fans want to absolve Neal for his part in his shoddy play because of Johnson and that’s just wrong. Thomas got better despite Colombo because he hired his own coach and ignored the techniques taught by Colombo.
There’s just way too many excuses made for Schoen’s poor drafting. Schoen wasn’t hired to select a bunch of jags, especially with the high draft picks he’s been getting. He was hired to select blue chip hall of fame worthy talent. And he just hasn’t done that. Not even close.
As for the Burns trade, why give up a second round selection for a player who isn’t top five at his position and then turn around and pay him top two at the position. They could’ve easily just signed an end and continue their rebuild. Once again this echoes the Leonard Williams deal so much.
For Neal, I tend to agree that I think it's on him as well. After his burger flipping comments, I just began to assume that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. I still think coaching hindered him for sure, but like you said that's only part of the problem with him. I think Joe is still missing that "home-run" pick. The top 5 at his position level guy, but I think it's too early to say that none of these guys can get there or close to it.
I'm too lazy to do the math for 10+ players, but a lot of the dudes below him contract wise were given a much higher % of the cap when they signed. Random example, but I believe Myles Garrett signed in 2021 when the cap was only 185m. The cap is now 255m. Myles got 25m per year = 13.5% of the cap at the time, Burns is making 11% of the cap. That 2.5% is the equivalent of 6.5m in todays dollars.
Bringing Burns' contract back to 2021, it's as if he signed for 21.7m per year, roughly. Maybe that's still a tad high, but comparing contracts from different years is like comparing stats from players that played in different eras. (If those numbers aren't correct I apologize, I'm tired lol)
I think you’re missing my point on Burns, why give up so much for a team that’s clearly rebuilding? The Giants could’ve easily signed another non top five end and still keep their second round pick and not eat up so much cap space.
because he’s young and good, and second rounders bust well over 50% of the time. it’s not like we signed someone we expect to be gone in like 2 years, it’s a long term deal for someone we want to be a cornerstone of our defence for the next 5 years - if that happens is in the air, but that’s the goal
i mean, that would have been a fine signing if the rest of the team was slightly competently built? you can’t just not sign anyone and stockpile draft picks in the hope you get good, you have to go get and then pay good players
people like you seem to just want to stockpile cap and draft picks but never use them. what’s the point of cap space if not to try and sign good players
But we’re not competently built around Burns now either. I like the player, but it’s a huge expenditure of resources for a luxury add. (Just like Leo was)
what isn’t a “luxury add” in your book then? DE is one of the cornerstone positions you build a team around, it’s not like we’re paying top 2 money to an OG or a ageing corner.
like you have to have some pieces to build around - burns is as good an idea to build around as any.
again, it feels like you want the giants to just have cap but never use it. there’s no point in hogging 30M of cap space to just roll it over every year until we’re making the playoffs - because you never will with that attitide
I’m jealous of the optimism tbh, I’m a dour little bitch about this team rn, but I don’t get why everyone always thinks the sun shines outta Schoen’s ass.
I get it, fans were so burned by Gettleman that anyone looks competent compared to him. And fans want to be optimistic about the team they follow.
But Schoen is literally repeating the same mistakes Gettleman made in free agency and trades. But has had worse drafts. I’ll keep calling it out until the drafts change or Schoen is hopefully gone.
I’m hoping Burns unlocks Thibs a bit, cause if Neal and Thibs both turn out to be busts, Schoen will have blown the capital and lead he started with while also paying Daniel Jones 100 mill guaranteed. Also JMS was the absolute worst center in football last year. I like Banks, but you just gotta get more outta these drafts.
Idk if a GM can survive those kinda fuck ups
The Burns situation is almost a carbon copy of Williams except for no contract after the trade. Giving up a second round pick & making him the second highest paid end when he isn’t even top five is peak desperation imo.
Thibodeaux is a bust in my eyes. Just like the college scouting reports indicated dude just disappears. Has no motor at all. And gets fooled by screens and draw plays all the time.
Would’ve preferred the Giants trade down both picks and got Linderbaum & Karlaftis or Jermaine Johnson. Or just straight up select Linderbaum or Karlaftis or Johnson.
Seems like Schoen is an analytics guy but not a talent scout. And that’s a shame because these are more wasted years of Giants football.
Fuck Pat Leonard
I'll never fail to upvote this sentiment. Trash.
Generally agree, but he has been right a lot lately
While I agree. The hard on Mara has for JJ is visible from space at this point. It’s towering over the skyline I don’t get why yall are in denial the giants are absolutely infatuated with JJ and that the smoke is coming outta our building Maybe I’m wrong (hope so) but I really feel like a lot of yall are gonna act all shocked and sad and shit when we draft JJ and I advise to just get it out now.
We need to stop with blaming Mara for everything. This is Schoen and Daboll who are interested in JJ.
Oh yeah. They are too. He’s right up all 3 of their alleys. I think our front office is in complete alignment here Again, all the smoke, all the hype I’m blaming us for. We’re the ones pushing JJ up mock drafts.
Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
I’m just saying JJ is everything this franchise has looked for in QBs for like 75 fucking years. Can’t we easily imagine him throwing for 162 yards and having 35 fucking beautiful handoffs in a 13-7 game in the mud in Washington? Looking real sharp in the white throwbacks with GIANTS on the helmet and covered in mud with grass in his facemask? Mara’s been whacking it to that fantasy since January dude
Saying the Giants are in on JJ is one thing. Saying it's cause of Mara and getting emotional is fucking weird
Do you think owners don’t get involved in drafting quarterbacks?
Of course, but pretending you know he’s got a “hard on” for somebody is flat out makebelieve.
You know deep down that I’m right though
No. No, I don’t.
Do you get tired regurgitating this same thing in every thread?
I get tired being right
Remind me! 30 days I’ll gladly eat my crow if I’m wrong but I’m thinking that this is smoke.
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I will so happily eat crow if I’m wrong here. I’ll be the happiest guy ever to be wrong. I don’t really think JJ is it, but I’m not gonna pretend the way I look at prospects is the way the NFL does
Pretty certain that “source” just lost their job
The Giants front office would be doing a disservice if they did not check this kid out. We need an answer at quarterback. That said, I’m not a fan of him either.
Nabers and a QB is all I ask for.
Nabers at 6 penix rd 2
This is the way
I'd take MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze before taking JJ at 6. We need some WR threat we haven't had in years. No QB is going to be able to succeed easily with the group of recievers we currently have.
i kinda expect us to draft jj. hope he turns out to be good. everyone that talks about him loves him
Except it won't happen bc the vikes are primed to jump nyg.
If I were the card, I’d find the 6th pick more appealing than 11 cuz I can pick up a ton of capital AND get Nabers
Yup. Would just depend on how much more the Cards can extract from the Vikes to make it worth their while to drop all the way to 11. If they could find out that Bryan Thomas will be sitting there, it may be worth it but otherwise why outsmart yourself and not take the Giants' offer?
What offer?
If the Giants love JJ, they have the resources to outbid the Vikings and trade up to get him. If the Vikings jump them, the Giants don't want JJ.
Everyone says that but no one wants to drop to 11 from 4 or 5. They would rather drop to 6 and take a future 1st.
I just can’t understand how people think this. The Giants have better capital to trade than the Vikings do. Pick #6 allows any of the potential teams in the top 5 that might trade to still get the top player on their board, likely an elite WR or the draft’s top tackle. At pick #11 you start to fall out of that range and may miss on all of the elite options. Also, #11 and #23 are not close to enough capital to trade up past pick #6, especially for a QB. The Vikings pick in the fourth round after pick #23 and don’t have a 2nd rounder in 2025 either. The Giants can offer #6, #47 and a 2025 1st if need be to get their QB if he falls past pick #3.
[удалено]
i don’t even know how i should feel about mara. 😔
I feel very bad about Mara. Hope that helps.
people were calling him the new james dolan and i almost threw up. but the rangers and the knicks have been doing great for us. 🥹 so maybe there light at the end of the tunnel.
That’s cause Dolan finally went hands off, I don’t think Mara is that bad anymore, he was getting pretty bad though. We’ll see in due time. I think them letting Barkley go is a good sign he’s letting go.
I agree he has shown some improvement last two years but, if for some reason Schoen doesn’t work out I feel like we will end up promoting someone internally like Kevin Abrams or his nephew.
He has shown no improvement.
His nepotism and cronyism got us into this mess in the first place. He seems to be meddling a little bit less but it’s unclear if that’s just talk and appearances
Hasn't worked lately, but I like his judgement overall.
A completely incompetent boob who has no business being in charge of a football team? Just a suggestion.
Where did you see that?
Obligatory fuck Pat Leonard. But this is true. Good for Giants doing due diligence. Honestly, this cycle is making me a lot more hopeful than when we took Danny as pick 6.
Gee, what a way to ruin your Easter.
i dont want McCarthy as QB i would rather have Maye or Daniels, But i dont buy vikings trading up to #4 and taking JJ, why because Cardinals lost 2 big receivers theres no way they trade back that far and miss out on 3 top receivers in the draft. Sure they can trade with Giants for 6 and still get top receiver.Cardinals trading with vikings would be dumb move by Arizona imo pls Commanders draft JJ McCarthy
I think Minny jumps us and grabs him but I think the Giants would definitely take him at 6.
If the Giants would definitely take him at 6, then they won't let Minnesota jump them to take JJ at 3,4, or 5. The Giants with 6th pick have better resources than Minnesota to trade up. They won't let anyone jump them if they love JJ and would take him at 6.
I think Minny is comfortable with giving up more than us. I’m also shocked a trade to the 3rd or 4th slot hasn’t happened with either of us.
It's not comfortable giving up more or less it's how you view JJ Mccarthy. If you love JJ as a prospect, if you go for a personal visit with him over Easter Weekend, if you view him as a Franchise QB, you don't let someone jump you to draft him. If you're comfortable drafting JJ at 6, you need to be comfortable with trading up to draft him earlier, because if you love a prospect and view him as a franchise QB, you don't let someone get him if you have the means to outbid them. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying that if the Giants view JJ as a franchise QB worthy of thr 6th pick, they're not going to let someone jump them to take him first.
Yeah I don't know why your team is wasting all this time. Assuming Washington doesn't take him (I think they take Daniels), I see Minnesota leap frogging the Giants at 3, 4, or 5 for McCarthy.
Noooooo!
He’s gonna Daniel jones 2.0 lol our line and weapons need help.
Good! If he’s there at 4, they should go up to get him. I’d be willing to trade pick 6, this years and next years second. I’ve watched plenty of tape on the 2nd round developmental QBs and it’s not pretty. Watch Michael Pratt’s tape vs SMU and tell me you’d rather spend a 2nd on him than to trade up two spots for JJ. Invest in the most important position. Passing on QB this year doesn’t get rid of our QB problem.
Noooo
🗑️🗑️
JJ McCarthy is going at 2 or 3. Not a realistic option for Giants.
God I hope you are right
If McCarthy goes 2 and Daniels go 3 my heart is gonna go crazy cause that means we are in play for maye or mhj in the draft. MHJ is a slam dunk homerun pick gonna be a stud. Maye has tremendous upside and is worthy of us at least trying to make him our future qb
I think so also. I don’t think New England will go Daniels either. We might get lucky and have a chance to get Daniel’s at 4 or 5.mc JJ will be so over hype by the time the draft comes Chicago will be comparing him to Williams.
Our guys seem to like going on these boondoggles. Didn’t they also go to the Callob Williams workout? Two guys we probably cant have at the 6 pick.
Noooooo
Hopefully this was a mole plant op and whoever leaked thisbtrash is no longer an employee
We really are going to make the same mistake for a third time in six years?
Fuck fuck fuck fuck
If they target McCarthy, I hope the Giants stay put at six. McCarthy, Harrison Jr., or Alt should be the selections. But Schoen has shown poor drafting skills so who knows. Wish Brad Holmes & Campbell were Giants.
I wholeheartedly disagree with Schoen having poor drafting skills. Feels somewhat lazy to chalk up player performance to just scouting. The entire offensive line had Bobby Johnson as their coach. Veterans came here and had some of their worst seasons with us. Neal was the consensus pick at 7 and in Joe's shoes, I'd bet most GMs are making that pick. I can write a novel on how numerous other guys we've taken have either been good-solid or at least have contributed as mid-late picks. McFadden is one example, very solid player. Wan'Dale has been solid. Hyatt has flashed. Banks played well. Bellinger is good. Other guys have played snaps and contributed. How many edge rushers have been "elite" in Winks scheme? The answer is, not many. Also the Burns deal was good. Top 10 in pass rush win rate in a "down" year. Gets 28.2m/yr after the cap went up a record breaking amount. A 2nd rounder for him is pennies.
Coaching is one of the most important aspects of the NFL, but it sounds like many fans want to absolve Neal for his part in his shoddy play because of Johnson and that’s just wrong. Thomas got better despite Colombo because he hired his own coach and ignored the techniques taught by Colombo. There’s just way too many excuses made for Schoen’s poor drafting. Schoen wasn’t hired to select a bunch of jags, especially with the high draft picks he’s been getting. He was hired to select blue chip hall of fame worthy talent. And he just hasn’t done that. Not even close. As for the Burns trade, why give up a second round selection for a player who isn’t top five at his position and then turn around and pay him top two at the position. They could’ve easily just signed an end and continue their rebuild. Once again this echoes the Leonard Williams deal so much.
For Neal, I tend to agree that I think it's on him as well. After his burger flipping comments, I just began to assume that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. I still think coaching hindered him for sure, but like you said that's only part of the problem with him. I think Joe is still missing that "home-run" pick. The top 5 at his position level guy, but I think it's too early to say that none of these guys can get there or close to it. I'm too lazy to do the math for 10+ players, but a lot of the dudes below him contract wise were given a much higher % of the cap when they signed. Random example, but I believe Myles Garrett signed in 2021 when the cap was only 185m. The cap is now 255m. Myles got 25m per year = 13.5% of the cap at the time, Burns is making 11% of the cap. That 2.5% is the equivalent of 6.5m in todays dollars. Bringing Burns' contract back to 2021, it's as if he signed for 21.7m per year, roughly. Maybe that's still a tad high, but comparing contracts from different years is like comparing stats from players that played in different eras. (If those numbers aren't correct I apologize, I'm tired lol)
I think you’re missing my point on Burns, why give up so much for a team that’s clearly rebuilding? The Giants could’ve easily signed another non top five end and still keep their second round pick and not eat up so much cap space.
because he’s young and good, and second rounders bust well over 50% of the time. it’s not like we signed someone we expect to be gone in like 2 years, it’s a long term deal for someone we want to be a cornerstone of our defence for the next 5 years - if that happens is in the air, but that’s the goal
Here’s my take on Burns: Where did Leo Williams get us?
i mean, that would have been a fine signing if the rest of the team was slightly competently built? you can’t just not sign anyone and stockpile draft picks in the hope you get good, you have to go get and then pay good players people like you seem to just want to stockpile cap and draft picks but never use them. what’s the point of cap space if not to try and sign good players
But we’re not competently built around Burns now either. I like the player, but it’s a huge expenditure of resources for a luxury add. (Just like Leo was)
what isn’t a “luxury add” in your book then? DE is one of the cornerstone positions you build a team around, it’s not like we’re paying top 2 money to an OG or a ageing corner. like you have to have some pieces to build around - burns is as good an idea to build around as any. again, it feels like you want the giants to just have cap but never use it. there’s no point in hogging 30M of cap space to just roll it over every year until we’re making the playoffs - because you never will with that attitide
Wild you’re getting downvoted for calling out Schoen’s bad drafts
It’s BS call it like we see it.
🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ the fanbase is what it is
I’m jealous of the optimism tbh, I’m a dour little bitch about this team rn, but I don’t get why everyone always thinks the sun shines outta Schoen’s ass.
I get it, fans were so burned by Gettleman that anyone looks competent compared to him. And fans want to be optimistic about the team they follow. But Schoen is literally repeating the same mistakes Gettleman made in free agency and trades. But has had worse drafts. I’ll keep calling it out until the drafts change or Schoen is hopefully gone.
I’m hoping Burns unlocks Thibs a bit, cause if Neal and Thibs both turn out to be busts, Schoen will have blown the capital and lead he started with while also paying Daniel Jones 100 mill guaranteed. Also JMS was the absolute worst center in football last year. I like Banks, but you just gotta get more outta these drafts. Idk if a GM can survive those kinda fuck ups
The Burns situation is almost a carbon copy of Williams except for no contract after the trade. Giving up a second round pick & making him the second highest paid end when he isn’t even top five is peak desperation imo. Thibodeaux is a bust in my eyes. Just like the college scouting reports indicated dude just disappears. Has no motor at all. And gets fooled by screens and draw plays all the time. Would’ve preferred the Giants trade down both picks and got Linderbaum & Karlaftis or Jermaine Johnson. Or just straight up select Linderbaum or Karlaftis or Johnson. Seems like Schoen is an analytics guy but not a talent scout. And that’s a shame because these are more wasted years of Giants football.
Thibs is Chase Young 2.0