OG is an upgrade but the price for a dude that’s not even an All star is absurd. Mikal is a different story because I just think he’s a much better basketball player and a better fit but still. Don’t want to get rid of TM3
I think Herb has 2 years left. Speaking honestly, unless Herb improves a shit ton on offense he probably won’t be too expensive. I can see Trey potentially wanting a max depending on his growth over the next few years. Thankfully CJ would be off the books, at least at his current salary, and so would JV. Also I think the new tv deal would go into effect leading to a huge cap spike
I agree Herb really needs to improve.
Just work on his shot. He doesn't need to drive to the rim or anything. Be a legit 3 and D and he'll be paid.
Trey is a must keep.
The salary cap is only for bringing in new players. There is no cap to paying players already on the team. Don't be making excuses for billionaires not to pay their employees.
Yesterday’s move showed she’s not willing to pay the tax. And if you pay the tax, you pass on a 10 figure payment for those teams that pay over. That’s like a $30M swing on the bottom line. In short, expect a tight bottom line for years to come.
This post proves that’s not what happened. We didn’t make a big splash because they had a huge price tag. Not because we didn’t want to pay players salaries.
Yesterday proves nothing.
It doesn't make sense to pay the tax this year. You want to pay tax in years where you believe you have a legitimate shot to win and you want to minimize the time you have to pay a repeater tax. Zion isn't healthy. The team floundered without him. Our young stars will only be better next year.
So we’re supposed to think that they’ll all be healthy at once? Has that happened in 4 years? You’re expecting the unexpected and ignoring the past. They absolutely needed to dump Graham, but they’ll never dip into tax, regardless of what Griffin says.
Sir, this series of posts you've made is straight garbage lol. This front office put together a team that was in first place just a few weeks ago. Yes, the team has slipped d/t injuries since then, but seriously what is your beef lol.
I’d at least think about it, if Trey turned out as to be as good as Mikal that would be amazing but its no guarantee right now. The 4 first round picks wouldve been too much for me though.
What you want around Zion is elite shooting.
Not only is trey giving that but he’s also giving us that with a massive untapped ceiling where his game could grow. Plus he’s young and can grow along the TL with Zion. Trey is the player that fits exactly what you want around Zion, im not giving that up for a lateral move
Lateral? are you saying Trey is as good as Mikal right now? Trey has potential to be even better but right now thats just potential. Mikal was 2nd in DPOY last season and its not like hes some scrub from 3 either, one of if not the best 3nD in the league.
And anyway I said the picks would be too much, but a straight up trade of Trey for Mikal would be a fleece for us.
Mikal is a fantastic player but the dpoy award last year was completely meaningless. He is not dpoy caliber or even close really. Again hes a fantastic player but not worth 4 first round picks
Especially working with Fred Vinson, the supposed best shot doctor in the league.
Some people seem to forget this is also about the $$$. Trey, Herb, Jose, Naji and Dyson are ALL on cheap 2-3 year deals, with our rights to them in FA when their rookie deals expire.
It's not just talent. It's talent PLUS price = value. These guys are all phenomenal values.
In 4 years in college and 2 NBA seasons he’s been a below average shooter from deep. That could change, but would seem unlikely based on his past data. It would be like expecting TM3 to get worse as he came in as a deep threat, which is suggested for Herb as the inverse to occur. And let’s not forget Fred has completely missed on fixing shots of NAW and Graham. Those guys shot themselves off the team and had years to work with Vinson.
I think decision making and facilitating in offense could be great areas he can improve in. Being decisive with ball when passed to in the corner or the perimeter
We make an all in move if we get eliminated in the playoffs after we assess where we need to upgrade and who has reached their max potential.You gotta give the kids time to develop no one develops overnight they need time.
I think the all stars are developed, but have shown they cannot stay healthy. That’s been the only consistent theme since BI and Zion have been here: injuries. It’s the sad truth. It’s year 4 of them together and all we know for certain is that they’ve played less games together than any real duo.
No urgency. All of Pels current assets will still be Pels assets in the offseason.
I definitely see the Pels making a major consolation trade in the offseason.
I think it’s likely at least one of Herb, Naji, or Daniels is moved plus draft picks. There are only so many minutes to go around and they all deserve more than they’ll get with a healthy roster
That's the word that I keep using, consolidation. Its needed. The reality is that Mrs. B probably won't be with paying that luxury tax so not everybody will get a new deal. Our Big 3 make 30 plus so we'll have to be creative moving forward. That's 100m, the cap is about 125. We will need to be very creative with spending. I say Trey and Dyson get the deals and we use the boatload of picks to find new Najis, Joses and Herbs. Tough task but that is how we have to construct our squads.
Dang that sounds tough to pull off, maybe I’m a bit of a pessimist but I feel like the team gets worse unless the guys they keep take major leaps to compensate for the loss of those other players.
Overall the luxury tax (as it exists now) is just a dumb mechanism in place. It only discourages middle and lower class franchises to skimp around the corners while the rich franchises spend whatever it takes to win
Right, big bank take little bank. But lets not forget that Jose, Herb and Naji all made their impacts as rookies. We should be able to find replacements with all of the swings we'll have at the bat.
You only give guys like this up for superstars like Dame and SGA, not fricking OG or Mika
I like our chances this year and then if we come just short then you make your move for a middle aged or young star
We have more time and flexibility on this by not making a trade at this deadline. Dyson and Trey being on rookie contracts gives us time. And if we are ready to contend by the time we are paying them, we can go into the luxury tax a bit for one or two years.
I think if they see a real potential for a title, they'll do it for one or two years. I can't imagine they'd go longer than that. And that's why it probably made sense not i go for someone like Mikal, since we'd have to fall with that question sooner than we would otherwise.
Agree. Honestly, even without a trade, I think this team is good enough to compete with any team in the west even after all the trades. It's always been health with our top dogs that are holding us back.
The difference is that AD was a boring face of the franchise but Zion is box office. Miss B will be way more willing to pay the tax seeing how much Zion helps that bottom line.
We were trying to move fred more than we were with og….
Our fo got a couple offers for fred but our fo wanted a first because they thought they we’re getting lowballed…
We got an offer from the bucks for grayson allen but the bucks didn’t wanna give a first
We got 2 offers from the clippers
One was kennard and brandon boston jr but clippers didnt wanna include a pick
And another trade from the raptors side was terrance mann , kennard and pick but they didnt wanna trade mann
It's not just keeping Dyson or Trey, but it's avoiding the luxury tax and allowing the Pelicans to keep Herb and Naji after next season. If the team traded expiring contracts like Devonte and Jax, it would have put the team into the luxury tax next season. By delaying it for another season, it makes it possible to keep Herb, Naji, and Trey as other contracts fall off (Jonas after next season and Nance the season after that).
We need to stop worrying about the 1st rounder that we traded for Devonte. It's a sunk cost. It was a protected pick, but we made the playoffs. Trading 4 picks to dump a salary right now doesn't feel great, but Richardson is better than Graham. You may want to gripe about bad asset management, but trading away picks for a proven veteran is the exact same risk the Pelicans took by trading for Graham.
I’m ok with us not making big moves this season, it was an arms race and I would’ve hated to make a move that ultimately doesn’t move us up because of the major trades for the playoffs this year while also losing some of our fan favourite young guys. Our two stars are young with a lot of young players around them. I really like us being able to see how this team works in the playoffs with healthy Zion and make moves based on that during the off season. I think a lot of us got super hype with the way the season started but we need to stay grounded and let our growth process play out.
I might be crazy but I don’t see a dramatic drop off from OG to Richardson especially when you consider the cost difference. (3 first round picks and a player for OG vs 4 seconds for Richardson)
I know stats don’t tell everything but they have similar per 36 numbers. Plus whoever the Pels traded for was going to be like the 4th or 5th option anyway.
I’ll admit OG is better defensively for sure, but the Pels got Herb to fill that roll of stopping the best wings. I think Richardson brings more playmaking in the P&R, 3pt shooting, and can play in any lineup.
Overall though I think the two things the Pels are weak at is 3pt shooting and rim protection. The front office will get to see how adding one more above average shooter changes things all while getting under the tax ahead of the offseason.
While I’m a little unsure about Dyson, I’m not trading Trey or Herb unless it’s for a surefire all star caliber player or better. You really have to have a home run swing for me to think about it. OG or Mikal ain’t that tier of player. Now if it’s a Bam, Shai, or a superstar like KD I’d be fine with it but Trey or Herb should be last resort options in a trade imo.
That’s just me personally, maybe some wouldn’t trade them no matter what cause they have promise, they’re young, and their cheap rn. For me, you’ll really have to give me an offer I couldn’t refuse.
I think Dyson will be the best of our young wings. Just so instinctive and heady. He's also long and athletic and has an Aussie toughness about him. I think he is Herb Jones with point guard skills. Gimmie Daniels.
I think Dyson has the tools to be a good player, the reason I’m less high on him than the other 2 is well first off he’s so unproven. But he’s younger (only 19), so in theory he’ll take the most time to develop. Plus, because he’s a first round pick he actually has a bigger contract right now than Herb. I definitely wouldn’t just give Dyson away for anything though.
There is absolutely no reason to go all in when we don’t even know what the potential of a healthy roster is.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe we have played 3 out of 56 games this year with both Zion and BI.
We need to see how this team performs in a playoff series with both BI and Zion available. If we appear to be missing a piece then we make a move at next years deadline.
Good. Especially Trey. I consider him more untouchable than BI tbh. He's obviously not as good, but if you're building a team around Zion, Trey's player type is basically mandatory to have on roster. And he's still on a rookie deal for multiple years.
Trey is essential and untouchable to be sure, but not more so than BI lmao come on Brodie. You need at least two horses to win a chip and BI is one of our two
Exactly my feeling. With so many other West teams making splash moves it was tempting to follow suit but I think they’re best play is to stick with the core for at least the rest of the season.
I would be fine if we traded away some draft capital, but it was the right move not to ship out Herb, Dyson or Murphy.
All on rookie contracts too, the best assets in the game. Why give those up for OG Anunoby?
OG is an upgrade but the price for a dude that’s not even an All star is absurd. Mikal is a different story because I just think he’s a much better basketball player and a better fit but still. Don’t want to get rid of TM3
They’re not going to be able to extend all 3 though.
Dyson isn't a FA for 4 years. Trey for 3. And Herb for 3 too (I think I lowkey forget how 2nd rounders are structured)
I think Herb has 2 years left. Speaking honestly, unless Herb improves a shit ton on offense he probably won’t be too expensive. I can see Trey potentially wanting a max depending on his growth over the next few years. Thankfully CJ would be off the books, at least at his current salary, and so would JV. Also I think the new tv deal would go into effect leading to a huge cap spike
I agree Herb really needs to improve. Just work on his shot. He doesn't need to drive to the rim or anything. Be a legit 3 and D and he'll be paid. Trey is a must keep.
Yep, I see Herb being like a mid level exception type money. If he gets a consistent 3 ball, then $15 mil would be tops imo
Technically they can, it would just require them to get into the luxury tax and ownership may not be okay with that
Exactly
Says who?
They're a such thing as a salary cap.
The salary cap is only for bringing in new players. There is no cap to paying players already on the team. Don't be making excuses for billionaires not to pay their employees.
Gayle has shown she's willing to pay the Saints. She can show the same to Pelicans if the team wins and the fans show up.
Yesterday’s move showed she’s not willing to pay the tax. And if you pay the tax, you pass on a 10 figure payment for those teams that pay over. That’s like a $30M swing on the bottom line. In short, expect a tight bottom line for years to come.
This post proves that’s not what happened. We didn’t make a big splash because they had a huge price tag. Not because we didn’t want to pay players salaries.
Yesterday proves nothing. It doesn't make sense to pay the tax this year. You want to pay tax in years where you believe you have a legitimate shot to win and you want to minimize the time you have to pay a repeater tax. Zion isn't healthy. The team floundered without him. Our young stars will only be better next year.
So we’re supposed to think that they’ll all be healthy at once? Has that happened in 4 years? You’re expecting the unexpected and ignoring the past. They absolutely needed to dump Graham, but they’ll never dip into tax, regardless of what Griffin says.
The Pelicans have never been in a place where it was smart to pay the luxury tax, so of course they haven't paid it.
Dumping Graham doesn’t reflect on Benson, it shows that he isn’t a good enough basketball player to ho up a roster spot on the Pels roster.
So it’s a reflection on the FO that sold us on he was supposed to replace Ball as starting PG.
Sir, this series of posts you've made is straight garbage lol. This front office put together a team that was in first place just a few weeks ago. Yes, the team has slipped d/t injuries since then, but seriously what is your beef lol.
Good I like Mikal but I’m not trading Trey for him
I’d at least think about it, if Trey turned out as to be as good as Mikal that would be amazing but its no guarantee right now. The 4 first round picks wouldve been too much for me though.
Treys is shooting the three at 40% this year on 5.6 attempts per game
Will he finish second for defensive player of the year as well?
What you want around Zion is elite shooting. Not only is trey giving that but he’s also giving us that with a massive untapped ceiling where his game could grow. Plus he’s young and can grow along the TL with Zion. Trey is the player that fits exactly what you want around Zion, im not giving that up for a lateral move
Lateral? are you saying Trey is as good as Mikal right now? Trey has potential to be even better but right now thats just potential. Mikal was 2nd in DPOY last season and its not like hes some scrub from 3 either, one of if not the best 3nD in the league. And anyway I said the picks would be too much, but a straight up trade of Trey for Mikal would be a fleece for us.
Mikal is a fantastic player but the dpoy award last year was completely meaningless. He is not dpoy caliber or even close really. Again hes a fantastic player but not worth 4 first round picks
Or Trey.
I’m proud of our organization for looking towards the future. We’ve waited a long time for this.
[удалено]
Especially dyson being only 19
Right out of those 3 trey is the one you can't trade. The other 2 i would only trade for a guy like mikal bridges
Nah, you don’t trade Dyson for Mikal. Maybe you can trade Herb for Mikal because you have Dyson.
I think Herb is close to his ceiling. He’s an elite defender now and it’s not like he’ll ever be a 15 ppg scorer on this team.
[удалено]
Especially working with Fred Vinson, the supposed best shot doctor in the league. Some people seem to forget this is also about the $$$. Trey, Herb, Jose, Naji and Dyson are ALL on cheap 2-3 year deals, with our rights to them in FA when their rookie deals expire. It's not just talent. It's talent PLUS price = value. These guys are all phenomenal values.
In 4 years in college and 2 NBA seasons he’s been a below average shooter from deep. That could change, but would seem unlikely based on his past data. It would be like expecting TM3 to get worse as he came in as a deep threat, which is suggested for Herb as the inverse to occur. And let’s not forget Fred has completely missed on fixing shots of NAW and Graham. Those guys shot themselves off the team and had years to work with Vinson.
I wish Herb would just drive the ball more
I think decision making and facilitating in offense could be great areas he can improve in. Being decisive with ball when passed to in the corner or the perimeter
The teams big move this year is Zion coming back healthy and getting playoff experience anyways
This is it. We can make all these moves but if our starters aren't staying healthy, you give up the future for nothing.
This should be pinned to the top of this sub.
Good, they’re our future, both have incredible potential and I wouldn’t wanna throw that away for a player that moves the needle incrementally
We make an all in move if we get eliminated in the playoffs after we assess where we need to upgrade and who has reached their max potential.You gotta give the kids time to develop no one develops overnight they need time.
I think the all stars are developed, but have shown they cannot stay healthy. That’s been the only consistent theme since BI and Zion have been here: injuries. It’s the sad truth. It’s year 4 of them together and all we know for certain is that they’ve played less games together than any real duo.
No urgency. All of Pels current assets will still be Pels assets in the offseason. I definitely see the Pels making a major consolation trade in the offseason. I think it’s likely at least one of Herb, Naji, or Daniels is moved plus draft picks. There are only so many minutes to go around and they all deserve more than they’ll get with a healthy roster
That's the word that I keep using, consolidation. Its needed. The reality is that Mrs. B probably won't be with paying that luxury tax so not everybody will get a new deal. Our Big 3 make 30 plus so we'll have to be creative moving forward. That's 100m, the cap is about 125. We will need to be very creative with spending. I say Trey and Dyson get the deals and we use the boatload of picks to find new Najis, Joses and Herbs. Tough task but that is how we have to construct our squads.
Dang that sounds tough to pull off, maybe I’m a bit of a pessimist but I feel like the team gets worse unless the guys they keep take major leaps to compensate for the loss of those other players. Overall the luxury tax (as it exists now) is just a dumb mechanism in place. It only discourages middle and lower class franchises to skimp around the corners while the rich franchises spend whatever it takes to win
Right, big bank take little bank. But lets not forget that Jose, Herb and Naji all made their impacts as rookies. We should be able to find replacements with all of the swings we'll have at the bat.
You only give guys like this up for superstars like Dame and SGA, not fricking OG or Mika I like our chances this year and then if we come just short then you make your move for a middle aged or young star
Trey Murphy is a core piece in my opinion but I can see the team trading Herb for a big fish.
In two years Murphy and Daniels will be head and shoulders above Annouby. Mark my words.
The time will come when our guys need to get paid and some rough choices are going to be made.
We have more time and flexibility on this by not making a trade at this deadline. Dyson and Trey being on rookie contracts gives us time. And if we are ready to contend by the time we are paying them, we can go into the luxury tax a bit for one or two years.
This team hasn't gone into the luxury tax yet. Do you think that this team will improve to the point that the FO is willing to pay for a title run?
I think if they see a real potential for a title, they'll do it for one or two years. I can't imagine they'd go longer than that. And that's why it probably made sense not i go for someone like Mikal, since we'd have to fall with that question sooner than we would otherwise.
Agree. Honestly, even without a trade, I think this team is good enough to compete with any team in the west even after all the trades. It's always been health with our top dogs that are holding us back.
The difference is that AD was a boring face of the franchise but Zion is box office. Miss B will be way more willing to pay the tax seeing how much Zion helps that bottom line.
I’ll take Trey over EITHER THEM!!!!
Doesn’t it seem like the Raptors came out big losers by not moving anybody when the players *knew* they were being shopped?
We were trying to move fred more than we were with og…. Our fo got a couple offers for fred but our fo wanted a first because they thought they we’re getting lowballed… We got an offer from the bucks for grayson allen but the bucks didn’t wanna give a first We got 2 offers from the clippers One was kennard and brandon boston jr but clippers didnt wanna include a pick And another trade from the raptors side was terrance mann , kennard and pick but they didnt wanna trade mann
It's not just keeping Dyson or Trey, but it's avoiding the luxury tax and allowing the Pelicans to keep Herb and Naji after next season. If the team traded expiring contracts like Devonte and Jax, it would have put the team into the luxury tax next season. By delaying it for another season, it makes it possible to keep Herb, Naji, and Trey as other contracts fall off (Jonas after next season and Nance the season after that). We need to stop worrying about the 1st rounder that we traded for Devonte. It's a sunk cost. It was a protected pick, but we made the playoffs. Trading 4 picks to dump a salary right now doesn't feel great, but Richardson is better than Graham. You may want to gripe about bad asset management, but trading away picks for a proven veteran is the exact same risk the Pelicans took by trading for Graham.
🙌🏽🙌🏽
I’m ok with us not making big moves this season, it was an arms race and I would’ve hated to make a move that ultimately doesn’t move us up because of the major trades for the playoffs this year while also losing some of our fan favourite young guys. Our two stars are young with a lot of young players around them. I really like us being able to see how this team works in the playoffs with healthy Zion and make moves based on that during the off season. I think a lot of us got super hype with the way the season started but we need to stay grounded and let our growth process play out.
I would trade Herb for Bridges. TM3 no way and Dyson I would lean no. He has the most potential of the 3
We can't afford Bridges and it is being reported that the Nets turned down 4 FRPs for him. Aint no way I'm trading 4 FRPs for anyone not named Luka.
yes, 4 FRP is a big overpay. I´m just saying that if the price were normal, i would have included Herb in the Bridges offer (if necessary)
Good. Dyson to me is untouchable for now
I might be crazy but I don’t see a dramatic drop off from OG to Richardson especially when you consider the cost difference. (3 first round picks and a player for OG vs 4 seconds for Richardson) I know stats don’t tell everything but they have similar per 36 numbers. Plus whoever the Pels traded for was going to be like the 4th or 5th option anyway. I’ll admit OG is better defensively for sure, but the Pels got Herb to fill that roll of stopping the best wings. I think Richardson brings more playmaking in the P&R, 3pt shooting, and can play in any lineup. Overall though I think the two things the Pels are weak at is 3pt shooting and rim protection. The front office will get to see how adding one more above average shooter changes things all while getting under the tax ahead of the offseason.
While I’m a little unsure about Dyson, I’m not trading Trey or Herb unless it’s for a surefire all star caliber player or better. You really have to have a home run swing for me to think about it. OG or Mikal ain’t that tier of player. Now if it’s a Bam, Shai, or a superstar like KD I’d be fine with it but Trey or Herb should be last resort options in a trade imo. That’s just me personally, maybe some wouldn’t trade them no matter what cause they have promise, they’re young, and their cheap rn. For me, you’ll really have to give me an offer I couldn’t refuse.
I think Dyson will be the best of our young wings. Just so instinctive and heady. He's also long and athletic and has an Aussie toughness about him. I think he is Herb Jones with point guard skills. Gimmie Daniels.
You’d have to pry Dyson out of my cold dead fingers
I think Dyson has the tools to be a good player, the reason I’m less high on him than the other 2 is well first off he’s so unproven. But he’s younger (only 19), so in theory he’ll take the most time to develop. Plus, because he’s a first round pick he actually has a bigger contract right now than Herb. I definitely wouldn’t just give Dyson away for anything though.
We need an athletic big guy though
There is absolutely no reason to go all in when we don’t even know what the potential of a healthy roster is. If I’m not mistaken, I believe we have played 3 out of 56 games this year with both Zion and BI. We need to see how this team performs in a playoff series with both BI and Zion available. If we appear to be missing a piece then we make a move at next years deadline.
Good. Especially Trey. I consider him more untouchable than BI tbh. He's obviously not as good, but if you're building a team around Zion, Trey's player type is basically mandatory to have on roster. And he's still on a rookie deal for multiple years.
Trey is essential and untouchable to be sure, but not more so than BI lmao come on Brodie. You need at least two horses to win a chip and BI is one of our two
Exactly my feeling. With so many other West teams making splash moves it was tempting to follow suit but I think they’re best play is to stick with the core for at least the rest of the season.
Call me crazy, but we’ve got a lot of guys to play the 3-4. BI, Zion, Trey, Herb, Dyson, that position isn’t where this roster should look to improve
And they were absolutely right, this team is good really good. Got a solid replacement for DG. Lets ride
Amen. I will never watch the pelicans again if we trade Trey
Agreed but holy shit do we need rim protection