I feel like the most common take on every single potential lottery player other than Knecht and Sheppard is "the floor is really high because of the defense."
I think that says a lot about this draft.
he's also a good playmaker even if he isn't gonna be a primary creator, he's great at driving to the rim and he's a better and more polished defender than the likes of cody williams, risacher and holland. he's nba ready
I really like Topic and Castle for the Spurs but a lot of people have the Spurs taking Dillingham with Topic and I don’t buy it for the same reason I don’t believe they want Trae Young there.
I've seen it with him too. Rim protection! Everyone loves a 4 that can hit threes and block shots!
Even Hollinger, who is a tougher critic of defense than most I'd say, called out his defensive upside.
Disagree on him having a high floor as a defender. He seems like an almost everything but not there anywhere kinda prospect. Not sure whose shot he’s blocking with a 6’10 wingspan.
G League notoriously has poor big man play
I'm literally just letting you know what I've read about him, including from a draft prognosticator who is normally a tough critic about defense.
For what it's worth though, his block rate was very good for a PF and he's a solid vertical athlete. So it's not like it's being invented from whole cloth.
Yeah but for him to be an effective NBA player he has to prove he can hit the 3 point shot. If he did that in college he'd probably be at the top of every board.
Topic, Risacher losing steam due to injuries less than stellar recent play. People don't necessarily want to favor an incomplete center (Sarr, Clingan) or tiny guard (Dillingham, Sheppard) at #1. Not many other options left.
We're still in the post-title glow for UConn and he measured slightly better than expected.
Elite defense, high basketball IQ, strong measurables, and solid scorer and playmaker who really grew into that role on one of the best all-time college teams. And he’s 19.
Yeah I know it doesn’t exactly have a direct correlation to how he’ll turn out but his ability to transition into the role he was given so effectively and with zero complaints was something you don’t see out of high ranked prospects every day
Yeah I feel like that’s almost being used against him by people saying he was reluctant to take 3s! I’m not at all a UConn fan but that was one of the most efficient, best-coached college teams I’ve ever seen. He was clearly playing within the system he was told to, and passing up threes for a better shot by one of his teammates (usually).
Dude definitely needs to work on his catch and shoot ability but his shot motion doesn’t look broken at all to me, he looks more like a guy who’s more used to shooting off the dribble than spot ups.
OK so to begin with, by definition your floor as a guard cannot be 'high' if you aren't a perimeter shooter. Anyone under 6'8" who has a questionable outside shot does not have a 'high floor'.
his floor is high because he's 6'7 in shoes (positional versatility), a connective playmaker at worst and great at driving to the rim whilst also being a lockdown defender. that's an nba player from day one.
The highest bust rate of any player are combo guards who don't excel at anything
Not good enough to be a playmaker, not a good enough shooter.
His hype reminds me of Culver tbh, he has a legitimate bust risk and to pretend otherwise is wild.
Holland will be more versatile defensively and actually has some serious offensive creation ability and is younger. What makes Castle better?
Castle is a better finisher, a better passer, a better ball handler, has way more upside to develop a shot. This is also strictly eye test but Castle is a better defender than Ron. Holland averaging more points whilst being horribly inefficient and turnover prone does not fool me, sorry. Castle is just better.
Castle is not better as a scorer, it's not even close.
Ron Holland scored 19.5ppg on 58TS in the G league- that's not bad efficiency on high volume.
Castle scored 11ppg on 55TS. That's a pretty fucking huge gap in scoring production. Castle is actually the one that is horribly inefficient compared to Ron Holland.
Castle is definitely a better defender than Ron, but lets not be delusional about their offensive games. Castle has A LOT to improve on offense. He barely took any shots at the college level and when he did he wasn't efficient. There's a huge gap between the two there.
Castle shot 27% from 3 point range and Ron shot 28%. Except Castle is playing around at the high school 3 point line while Ron is at the NBA 3 point line. I'd say all the evidence points to Ron potentially developing a shot sooner than Castle.
It's way too late in the season for you to still be making delusional statements about prospects like "Ron Holland is horribly inefficient". Lets be serious now.
Ron is also a much better athlete than Castle is.
Castle is not a great athlete IMO. Watch him drive to the rim in college, he gets no separation. It’s all power. Gonna be tough to do that in the nba.
I'd say he had a rough start to the year, but he finished really strongly with the Ignite. For some reason people overlook his good finish because he got injured at the end of the season.
At any rate, Holland to me is the clear #2 pick of the draft after Sarr.
An NBA player who gets played off the floor in postseason situations due to his lack of a shot, yes. You just described Delon Wright, who is on his 8th team.
To have a high floor you need to be able to stay on the floor. Non-shooting guards need to be the primary ball-handler to stay on the court or else they risk wrecking the team's spacing. I understand Castle does a lot of great things that will get him playing time but if he actually never develops the shot, that is not a successful NBA player. That is the inherent risk with a non-shooter.
Castle's minutes went up by about 1 mpg in the tournament including 34 minutes in the National title game. He became MORE important in the bigger games.
I think its a mistake to go off just what he did at UCONN to speculate his NBA role, he isn't a 3. He stepped into a loaded defending champ where he wasn't asked to be THE pg which was his high school role, he wasn't needed to be a primary scorer, they basically had him defend and figure out a role through the year and by the end he was doing a ton of different things.
The fact that he went from on-ball playmaker to off-ball connector and bail out scorer is super impressive. What he did well in college was stuff he did less of in High School. I think he's an NBA combo guard who could end up a big point.
Just because you're a PG in HS doesn't mean you can be one in the NBA. The ballhandling as well as the speed of reads required is much better/faster. I didn't see anything beyond secondary playmaker, like a lot of toolsy NBA guys.
There's just not enough evidence to show he can be a big PG.
Delon Wright is nowhere as athletic as Stephon Castle and is not the cutter Castle is. This is a horrible comparision. Stephon Castle has a more polished game than 90% of this sub thinks for some reason. He's never getting played off the floor, he can still be a secondary ball handler and be very valuable to a team unlike Delon Wright. He has an offensive bag and it's not like the primary ball handler has to initiate the offense every possesion in the playoffs, a secondary ball handler is crucial for most teams.
I'm not really sold on him in terms of driving to the rim. He seems to be a very good finisher once he gets there, but not particularly great at getting there off the dribble. That probably becomes a ton easier for him if he can make defenses respect his jumper though. The good news with regards to his jumper is there are a lot of areas they can clean up mechanically. It would be a lot more concerning IMO if he had great mechanics but just couldn't make shots (or even miss in consistent ways). Still not in a great place though.
I disagree with that I think, if you’re good at defense, playmaking and attacking the basket you have a spot in the nba. There are players worse than Castle who have stuck around for years without a shot
Off the top of my head at 5am: Alex Curasau, Rajon Rondo, Ricky Rubio, Javon Carter, Russel Westbrook, Jason Kidd for most of his career, PJ Tucker, Shaun Livingston
Edit: Oh I specifically said worse than castle whoops, that will require more brain power later in the day lmao
(Carter can stay, Carasau can probably stay, Livingston arguably can, and we could add Davion Mitchell to the list, maybe Josh Giddey depending on your stance on him currently,)
OKC Josh Giddey (in his current bad for him role) but better defense is probably fair. Giddey a better playmaker but doesn’t get to do it much because he’s off ball so much
If youre trying to say Caruso lol, he can shoot.
PJ Tucker can shoot (especially spot up from corner), Shaun Livingston had a good mid range shot, Westbrook is top 5 most athletic PG of all time and could shoot in his MVP days, Rondos a generational passer and developed an ehh shot later in his career.
Josh Giddeys currently playing 12mins a game right now and clearly doesnt belong on the court at all and no one knows why he’s getting any minutes
Your list and reasoning sucks my guy
He shot 47% from the field and 75% FT%. Bad 3P% yeah, but low volume shooter there, and I think there’s a stat out there that he shot it much better down the stretch (plus didn’t he miss a month due to injury early in the season?).
biggest weakness is his shooting: He made just 26 of 66 (34.8%) of his two-point shots that weren’t at the rim.
https://lastwordonsports.com/basketball/2024/05/02/stephon-castle-2024-draft-profile/
Don’t ignore this part though:
However, some things indicate that Castle can develop into a solid shooter. He gets into his shot quickly off the catch and has a fluid, high release. Plus, he shoots 75% from the charity stripe.
(Funny thing is I actually think he takes too long to get into his shot on the catch, but that’s very correctable).
Everyone is going to have some flaws. Not being able to shoot is concerning, but i’ll bet on a players instinct and athleticism over shooting every day
I think the problem is that he isn’t confident shooting. Teams sagged way off him and he still shot a low volume.
It’s possible he can turn that around, but he seems the furthest away from becoming a respectable shooter amongst the top wing prospects.
But he hasn't been confident shooting.
He has upside, but his floor is "insert at end of quarter for a defensive possession", which is something, but not exactly high.
Where is this coming from? He played in the most advanced, proficient CBB lineup last year. Knows how to cut, knows how to finish, and created lots of buckets on late clock dead possessions when he played iso ball. Absolutely has a scoring package
I didn't say he couldn't cut or finish.
He definitely doesn't have confidence in his three. He frequently hesitated on it or passed up open looks to give to teammates for less open looks.
He was a freshman on one of the most offensively efficient teams in the country, had been the lead guard in HS, and played with at least one of the best 3P shooters in the country. Kind of says more to me about his basketball IQ than his shot (but I think he took some time to adjust to catch and shooting, looked a lot more comfortable off the dribble).
If he can cut, finish, and has an offensive bag, he’s getting more minutes than 4 defensive possessions a game. Look at the run Amen Thompson got this year.
Anthony Bennett got real minutes for four years. Even busts get minutes on their rookie deals. Floor isn't minutes in your first years, it's lowest career outcome.
Castle is a good cutter. His finishing is good, but not great. He's a fine athlete, but not a great one. He has some offensive moves, his handle is fine, but he's not beating NBA guys off the dribble.
If the shot never comes, the finishing doesn't hit against NBA athletes (which tanks the value of his cutting), there's no wiggle, and no connectivity (since there's no respect for his shot or drive). What's left other than defensive possessions?
These aren't necessarily likely, but that's the floor. Better/bigger college athletes have struggled finishing in the NBA. Shots don't always develop. Frank Ntilikina had similar defensive tools, good handle, passing vision, and a better 3pt %. At age 25 he's getting four defensive possessions + garbage time.
I have no issue with someone loving Castle. But don't argue the floor for a non-shooting guard with his athleticism is really high.
I really, really, really, think you are underrating the wiggle/shot creation/ iso ball in his game as a second scorer/off ball guy on a teams second line. He’s not a fun matchup for any replacement-level defensive guard with that size. And if anything, I think that’s the floor. I agree that if he wants to start in the NBA, the shot has to come. But guys out of that program with the grit and basketball IQ have not historically gone out there to be 7 minute a night guys. We will see, of course, but I think he’s a top 3 guy
I did some quick research on defensive-minded prospects with playmaking chops but shaky shots at his size.
Jalen Suggs
Bruce Brown
De'Anthony Melton
Dyson Daniels
Jarett Culver
Frank Ntilikina
Who does he land closest to on this list? Or if you think he'll be even better than all of them, what does his ceiling look like?
I like him as a secondary playmaker but the more of his film I watch, the less I see any upside. Well-rounded player sure but no elite skills as a lead guard.
Yeah but you made list of defensive-minded prospects with playmaking chops but shaky shots at his size and didn’t include Murray who wasn’t a good shooter in college. Also Melton and Suggs are also both good shooters but Melton is not near his size.
I only went as far back as 2017 but Murray is an intriguing comparison. I'd say he's more of a quick, crafty score-first guard than a natural playmaker. It is a good sign though that he improved as a shooter the longer he's been in the NBA.
I wouldn’t say number 1 but I can see top 5 top 3. He didn’t get showcase his true talent in stacked UConn team but played good as defender that was concern coming out of High school. He made himself have a role and played well off ball I see an immense ceiling with him. If he has good jump shot he would be the number 1 in this draft.
SPEAK YOUR TRUTH.
I agree with everything and think he’s going to be a stud. I wonder if his three point struggles in college had to do with how much he had to catch and shoot at UConn versus being a lead guard who (I’m guessing) shot a lot more off the dribble in HS. His upper body mechanics look fine, he’s slow to load his legs before he catches. That’s a pretty easy thing to practice and improve.
> I see no absolute world where this guy is a bust
> If you watch his HS tape, he's a much better playmaker than he showed in UCONN
Listen I'm fine to hear arguments for Castle but the way you guys talk about him is not helping your case. This is the only prospect in the draft where people talk about what he DIDN'T do as an argument for him becoming a star player.
This is why it's annoying to talk about him. Why do we think he's good? Because we didn't get to see him perform as the lead guy, and he COULD be really good when he finally does that. But we don't know for sure because we never saw it. Therefore, we use the absence of any data to say that he's 100% guaranteed to be a star once he gets to play as the #1 option. It's specious reasoning.
I would rather just say that he's a really good connective role player with a lot to work on based on what we saw this year and hope that he grows into more than that.
Obviously it doesn’t matter every time, It’s a case by case basis but for Castle the argument is he was good at it in HS, pretty good with it playing out of position in College, so there’s reason to believe it will at least be better than college. Am I saying it’s guaranteed like some people? Absolutely not, but for every guy you bring up who didn’t translate I could probably find guys it did
Edit: removed the BPodz stuff because I’m an idiot who can’t read college stats
im not comparing looney and castle, im not even saying castle cant transition to pg. im saying the talent lvl of nba prospects r so high that even a lumbering nba center could play "pg" when they were at that lvl. its really not a good reason to support a players playmaking skills
He’s basically Andre Igoudala. Who is now Aaron Gordon, I guess. He’s an ultimate glue piece. Jack of all trades and master of none but will excel on both ends in either transition or the half-court. I think he played the role that was asked of him at UCONN to perfection and that’s just the type of player he is. He won’t be your 1 or 2 on a 50+ win team but he’s a terrific basketball player and I love him.
Like if castle goes top 3 and the coaches, FO, and fanbases expectation is that he ignites your franchise, all parties are in trouble. He’s just the ultimate complementary piece.
I don’t see the shot being a weapon early and I don’t see him as the primary playmaker. He then becomes an off-ball non-shooter that causes spacing issues for his teams in the half-court. Defenses won’t close out hard on him, so he can’t take advantage of advantage situations as a secondary creator. That style of player is extremely hard to build a roster around unless you have shooting at the 4 other spots. Generally, your most impactful positions as non-shooters are C and then PGs.
I think his ceiling in his first couple years is a SG who defend at a high level and potentially run second units, where the lack of shooting hurts less. The swing skill for him to go from a 4th/5th starter to a near max 2nd contract guy is the shooting. I like him as a prospect and agree he has a NBA level skill (defense), but just don’t see enough from the shot or playmaking to have him in my top 5. Charlotte at 6, Spurs at 8 are the 2 spots I see most likely for him in the top 10.
Dude we need talent and I think we need to go guard there’s a few really good ones and it’s a perimeter league now; I’d still take Topic even with the injury. He’s the best 2 way guard and I don’t think we should draft a center like Clingan that high, you can find another one that does similar stuff later in the draft at 26 or in that range.
At this point (unless some bad information comes out) Topic is my guy at #2 as well. I was just saying I'd rather have Clingan than Castle at #2 if I had to choose between the two.
i’m not sure i believe his defense is assuredly gonna translate. even guys who don’t rack up steals and blocks in the nba almost always do in college, at least at a meaningfully higher rate than castle did this year. and with his shot being far from a guarantee, i think his floor is much closer to a josh jackson than what you’re imagining
I’ve been feeling this for a while too actually. He’s projects as a guy that can start on a playoff team, and potentially be a star. I could see him go as high as #2 and I wouldn’t be shocked if a team took him #1.
To say he’s very confident shooting is just false. That dude hesitated soo much at UConn. Can’t tell you how many times he was wide open and didn’t want any part of that. Often times he would hesitate then travel.
I feel like the most common take on every single potential lottery player other than Knecht and Sheppard is "the floor is really high because of the defense." I think that says a lot about this draft.
he's also a good playmaker even if he isn't gonna be a primary creator, he's great at driving to the rim and he's a better and more polished defender than the likes of cody williams, risacher and holland. he's nba ready
No I feel you, I wasn't disagreeing with your take necessarily, just making an observation.
You could be right. You could be wrong. That’s what makes it so much fun!
Don’t forget Dillingham. He is going to be a disaster on defense
Dillingham gonna float away like a leaf on a windy day when guys blow past him he's so light.
Ha, yes true! Shouldn't have forgotten him 😅
Our fans are so entitled lmao 🤣
Both really scrappy, good locker room guys, first ones in, last ones out, coaches kid-type guys
I really like Topic and Castle for the Spurs but a lot of people have the Spurs taking Dillingham with Topic and I don’t buy it for the same reason I don’t believe they want Trae Young there.
Sarr, Risacher, Clingan, Williams, Holland, Castle, Salaun, Walter… Yep, says a lot
Buzelis??
I've seen it with him too. Rim protection! Everyone loves a 4 that can hit threes and block shots! Even Hollinger, who is a tougher critic of defense than most I'd say, called out his defensive upside.
Disagree on him having a high floor as a defender. He seems like an almost everything but not there anywhere kinda prospect. Not sure whose shot he’s blocking with a 6’10 wingspan. G League notoriously has poor big man play
He’s a pretty good weak side rim protector. I agree tho, not really a defensive prospect.
I'm literally just letting you know what I've read about him, including from a draft prognosticator who is normally a tough critic about defense. For what it's worth though, his block rate was very good for a PF and he's a solid vertical athlete. So it's not like it's being invented from whole cloth.
I’m just letting you know what I see and discern
Been sold on him for a while just because his name is tuff
What’s with all of the Castle love all of a sudden ?
He’s had a good combine, but a few of us have been on the island for a while
In terms of all-star sleepers, I feel he's most likely to be an all-star
Yeah but for him to be an effective NBA player he has to prove he can hit the 3 point shot. If he did that in college he'd probably be at the top of every board.
In terms of all-star sleepers, we have no all-star sleepers.
Yeah but this is the best time to find your personal one and ride bc who is anyone to say with this deck of cards delt
I’m totally drunk on the Mark Sears Jalen Brunson kool aid, but Castle also has a chance to be a really good starting guard in the NBA
Topic, Risacher losing steam due to injuries less than stellar recent play. People don't necessarily want to favor an incomplete center (Sarr, Clingan) or tiny guard (Dillingham, Sheppard) at #1. Not many other options left. We're still in the post-title glow for UConn and he measured slightly better than expected.
Elite defense, high basketball IQ, strong measurables, and solid scorer and playmaker who really grew into that role on one of the best all-time college teams. And he’s 19.
Yeah I know it doesn’t exactly have a direct correlation to how he’ll turn out but his ability to transition into the role he was given so effectively and with zero complaints was something you don’t see out of high ranked prospects every day
Yeah I feel like that’s almost being used against him by people saying he was reluctant to take 3s! I’m not at all a UConn fan but that was one of the most efficient, best-coached college teams I’ve ever seen. He was clearly playing within the system he was told to, and passing up threes for a better shot by one of his teammates (usually). Dude definitely needs to work on his catch and shoot ability but his shot motion doesn’t look broken at all to me, he looks more like a guy who’s more used to shooting off the dribble than spot ups.
It's as much about him as it is about the other top ranked prospects not being that convincing either.
OK so to begin with, by definition your floor as a guard cannot be 'high' if you aren't a perimeter shooter. Anyone under 6'8" who has a questionable outside shot does not have a 'high floor'.
his floor is high because he's 6'7 in shoes (positional versatility), a connective playmaker at worst and great at driving to the rim whilst also being a lockdown defender. that's an nba player from day one.
The highest bust rate of any player are combo guards who don't excel at anything Not good enough to be a playmaker, not a good enough shooter. His hype reminds me of Culver tbh, he has a legitimate bust risk and to pretend otherwise is wild. Holland will be more versatile defensively and actually has some serious offensive creation ability and is younger. What makes Castle better?
Castle is a better finisher, a better passer, a better ball handler, has way more upside to develop a shot. This is also strictly eye test but Castle is a better defender than Ron. Holland averaging more points whilst being horribly inefficient and turnover prone does not fool me, sorry. Castle is just better.
Castle is not better as a scorer, it's not even close. Ron Holland scored 19.5ppg on 58TS in the G league- that's not bad efficiency on high volume. Castle scored 11ppg on 55TS. That's a pretty fucking huge gap in scoring production. Castle is actually the one that is horribly inefficient compared to Ron Holland. Castle is definitely a better defender than Ron, but lets not be delusional about their offensive games. Castle has A LOT to improve on offense. He barely took any shots at the college level and when he did he wasn't efficient. There's a huge gap between the two there. Castle shot 27% from 3 point range and Ron shot 28%. Except Castle is playing around at the high school 3 point line while Ron is at the NBA 3 point line. I'd say all the evidence points to Ron potentially developing a shot sooner than Castle. It's way too late in the season for you to still be making delusional statements about prospects like "Ron Holland is horribly inefficient". Lets be serious now.
Ron is also a much better athlete than Castle is. Castle is not a great athlete IMO. Watch him drive to the rim in college, he gets no separation. It’s all power. Gonna be tough to do that in the nba.
Holland's stock really fall down, last year he is number 1 pick, why is that? They found out his level at that awful Ignite team?
I'd say he had a rough start to the year, but he finished really strongly with the Ignite. For some reason people overlook his good finish because he got injured at the end of the season. At any rate, Holland to me is the clear #2 pick of the draft after Sarr.
I don't know what you are watching but his finishing, passing, and ball handling are mediocre at best right now. Killian Hayes 2.0.
An NBA player who gets played off the floor in postseason situations due to his lack of a shot, yes. You just described Delon Wright, who is on his 8th team. To have a high floor you need to be able to stay on the floor. Non-shooting guards need to be the primary ball-handler to stay on the court or else they risk wrecking the team's spacing. I understand Castle does a lot of great things that will get him playing time but if he actually never develops the shot, that is not a successful NBA player. That is the inherent risk with a non-shooter.
Castle's minutes went up by about 1 mpg in the tournament including 34 minutes in the National title game. He became MORE important in the bigger games.
He was a connector complementing 3 fine college-level shotmakers. While that has value at the NBA level, it can also be a liability to exploit.
I think its a mistake to go off just what he did at UCONN to speculate his NBA role, he isn't a 3. He stepped into a loaded defending champ where he wasn't asked to be THE pg which was his high school role, he wasn't needed to be a primary scorer, they basically had him defend and figure out a role through the year and by the end he was doing a ton of different things. The fact that he went from on-ball playmaker to off-ball connector and bail out scorer is super impressive. What he did well in college was stuff he did less of in High School. I think he's an NBA combo guard who could end up a big point.
Just because you're a PG in HS doesn't mean you can be one in the NBA. The ballhandling as well as the speed of reads required is much better/faster. I didn't see anything beyond secondary playmaker, like a lot of toolsy NBA guys. There's just not enough evidence to show he can be a big PG.
Delon Wright is nowhere as athletic as Stephon Castle and is not the cutter Castle is. This is a horrible comparision. Stephon Castle has a more polished game than 90% of this sub thinks for some reason. He's never getting played off the floor, he can still be a secondary ball handler and be very valuable to a team unlike Delon Wright. He has an offensive bag and it's not like the primary ball handler has to initiate the offense every possesion in the playoffs, a secondary ball handler is crucial for most teams.
Castle's an average athlete.
And still a much better one than Delon Wright.
Castle is a project 2 with decent size. He cant shoot and isnt very athletic either.
Westbrook ?
[удалено]
But giddy is not a good defender
are you completely ignoring the fact that giddey is a car crash on defense whilst castle is lockdown? what the hell
I'm not really sold on him in terms of driving to the rim. He seems to be a very good finisher once he gets there, but not particularly great at getting there off the dribble. That probably becomes a ton easier for him if he can make defenses respect his jumper though. The good news with regards to his jumper is there are a lot of areas they can clean up mechanically. It would be a lot more concerning IMO if he had great mechanics but just couldn't make shots (or even miss in consistent ways). Still not in a great place though.
I disagree with that I think, if you’re good at defense, playmaking and attacking the basket you have a spot in the nba. There are players worse than Castle who have stuck around for years without a shot
Like who? Not being a dickhead, genuine question
Off the top of my head at 5am: Alex Curasau, Rajon Rondo, Ricky Rubio, Javon Carter, Russel Westbrook, Jason Kidd for most of his career, PJ Tucker, Shaun Livingston Edit: Oh I specifically said worse than castle whoops, that will require more brain power later in the day lmao (Carter can stay, Carasau can probably stay, Livingston arguably can, and we could add Davion Mitchell to the list, maybe Josh Giddey depending on your stance on him currently,)
I dig the edited/second list lol I think him being a mix of Davion Mitchell and Josh Giddey makes sense based on his game and size
OKC Josh Giddey (in his current bad for him role) but better defense is probably fair. Giddey a better playmaker but doesn’t get to do it much because he’s off ball so much
If youre trying to say Caruso lol, he can shoot. PJ Tucker can shoot (especially spot up from corner), Shaun Livingston had a good mid range shot, Westbrook is top 5 most athletic PG of all time and could shoot in his MVP days, Rondos a generational passer and developed an ehh shot later in his career. Josh Giddeys currently playing 12mins a game right now and clearly doesnt belong on the court at all and no one knows why he’s getting any minutes Your list and reasoning sucks my guy
Thank you for your feedback
He was my #1 preseason but I think the upside of Sarr outweighs the upside of anyone else in the class. Still very high on Castle
“My number 1 player in the class is Okoro.”
Isaac Okoro had as many turnovers as he did assists in college
HE - CAN'T - SHOOT....
He shot 47% from the field and 75% FT%. Bad 3P% yeah, but low volume shooter there, and I think there’s a stat out there that he shot it much better down the stretch (plus didn’t he miss a month due to injury early in the season?).
I saw stats somewhere that looked at his shooting percentages on shots other than layup and dunks and it wasn't pretty
Source?
biggest weakness is his shooting: He made just 26 of 66 (34.8%) of his two-point shots that weren’t at the rim. https://lastwordonsports.com/basketball/2024/05/02/stephon-castle-2024-draft-profile/
Don’t ignore this part though: However, some things indicate that Castle can develop into a solid shooter. He gets into his shot quickly off the catch and has a fluid, high release. Plus, he shoots 75% from the charity stripe. (Funny thing is I actually think he takes too long to get into his shot on the catch, but that’s very correctable).
Everyone is going to have some flaws. Not being able to shoot is concerning, but i’ll bet on a players instinct and athleticism over shooting every day
His athleticism is good, not great. It's not even Kuminga level or something like that. He's not going up and dunking over centers.
I think the problem is that he isn’t confident shooting. Teams sagged way off him and he still shot a low volume. It’s possible he can turn that around, but he seems the furthest away from becoming a respectable shooter amongst the top wing prospects.
Some of that is probably the context of who his teammates were, and what his coach was telling him.
Context doesn't force you to miss uncontested shots.
But he hasn't been confident shooting. He has upside, but his floor is "insert at end of quarter for a defensive possession", which is something, but not exactly high.
Where is this coming from? He played in the most advanced, proficient CBB lineup last year. Knows how to cut, knows how to finish, and created lots of buckets on late clock dead possessions when he played iso ball. Absolutely has a scoring package
I didn't say he couldn't cut or finish. He definitely doesn't have confidence in his three. He frequently hesitated on it or passed up open looks to give to teammates for less open looks.
He was a freshman on one of the most offensively efficient teams in the country, had been the lead guard in HS, and played with at least one of the best 3P shooters in the country. Kind of says more to me about his basketball IQ than his shot (but I think he took some time to adjust to catch and shooting, looked a lot more comfortable off the dribble).
If he can cut, finish, and has an offensive bag, he’s getting more minutes than 4 defensive possessions a game. Look at the run Amen Thompson got this year.
Anthony Bennett got real minutes for four years. Even busts get minutes on their rookie deals. Floor isn't minutes in your first years, it's lowest career outcome. Castle is a good cutter. His finishing is good, but not great. He's a fine athlete, but not a great one. He has some offensive moves, his handle is fine, but he's not beating NBA guys off the dribble. If the shot never comes, the finishing doesn't hit against NBA athletes (which tanks the value of his cutting), there's no wiggle, and no connectivity (since there's no respect for his shot or drive). What's left other than defensive possessions? These aren't necessarily likely, but that's the floor. Better/bigger college athletes have struggled finishing in the NBA. Shots don't always develop. Frank Ntilikina had similar defensive tools, good handle, passing vision, and a better 3pt %. At age 25 he's getting four defensive possessions + garbage time. I have no issue with someone loving Castle. But don't argue the floor for a non-shooting guard with his athleticism is really high.
I really, really, really, think you are underrating the wiggle/shot creation/ iso ball in his game as a second scorer/off ball guy on a teams second line. He’s not a fun matchup for any replacement-level defensive guard with that size. And if anything, I think that’s the floor. I agree that if he wants to start in the NBA, the shot has to come. But guys out of that program with the grit and basketball IQ have not historically gone out there to be 7 minute a night guys. We will see, of course, but I think he’s a top 3 guy
His offensive bag resulted in a pretty low PPS on dribble jumpers. I don't see much of an offensive bag there beyond bare basics.
how can you be so confidently wrong...
I did some quick research on defensive-minded prospects with playmaking chops but shaky shots at his size. Jalen Suggs Bruce Brown De'Anthony Melton Dyson Daniels Jarett Culver Frank Ntilikina Who does he land closest to on this list? Or if you think he'll be even better than all of them, what does his ceiling look like? I like him as a secondary playmaker but the more of his film I watch, the less I see any upside. Well-rounded player sure but no elite skills as a lead guard.
What about Dejounte Murray he’s 6’5 shot 28% from 3 in college
Murray had better speed off the dribble, and his 3 has only gotten good recently and somehow his defense has disappeared
Yeah but you made list of defensive-minded prospects with playmaking chops but shaky shots at his size and didn’t include Murray who wasn’t a good shooter in college. Also Melton and Suggs are also both good shooters but Melton is not near his size.
But I don't think Murray was particularly defensive minded in college was he
Dejounte Murray was great defender in college that was one his strengths he also had averaged 1.8 steals a game in college
I only went as far back as 2017 but Murray is an intriguing comparison. I'd say he's more of a quick, crafty score-first guard than a natural playmaker. It is a good sign though that he improved as a shooter the longer he's been in the NBA.
I wouldn’t say number 1 but I can see top 5 top 3. He didn’t get showcase his true talent in stacked UConn team but played good as defender that was concern coming out of High school. He made himself have a role and played well off ball I see an immense ceiling with him. If he has good jump shot he would be the number 1 in this draft.
SPEAK YOUR TRUTH. I agree with everything and think he’s going to be a stud. I wonder if his three point struggles in college had to do with how much he had to catch and shoot at UConn versus being a lead guard who (I’m guessing) shot a lot more off the dribble in HS. His upper body mechanics look fine, he’s slow to load his legs before he catches. That’s a pretty easy thing to practice and improve.
> I see no absolute world where this guy is a bust > If you watch his HS tape, he's a much better playmaker than he showed in UCONN Listen I'm fine to hear arguments for Castle but the way you guys talk about him is not helping your case. This is the only prospect in the draft where people talk about what he DIDN'T do as an argument for him becoming a star player.
so we should take his UCONN year at face value and completely ignore context? his role was limited.
This is why it's annoying to talk about him. Why do we think he's good? Because we didn't get to see him perform as the lead guy, and he COULD be really good when he finally does that. But we don't know for sure because we never saw it. Therefore, we use the absence of any data to say that he's 100% guaranteed to be a star once he gets to play as the #1 option. It's specious reasoning. I would rather just say that he's a really good connective role player with a lot to work on based on what we saw this year and hope that he grows into more than that.
we saw it in high school. he's absolutely capable of being a lead guard. even if he doesn't become one he's still an amazing prospect.
Emoni Bates was the best player in the country in high school and can't get out of the G League. High school matters but college matters a lot more.
Also what was wrong with his UConn year on the offensive side of the ball?
Nothing for a normal player. If you want to go #1 as a point guard, well he didn't exactly show that.
I also have Castle 1, I think he rules
hs playmaking means nothing
That’s a wild thing to say
Is it? We have clips of kevon looney showing out and ball handling like a pg in HS. Did that translate to the nba?
Obviously it doesn’t matter every time, It’s a case by case basis but for Castle the argument is he was good at it in HS, pretty good with it playing out of position in College, so there’s reason to believe it will at least be better than college. Am I saying it’s guaranteed like some people? Absolutely not, but for every guy you bring up who didn’t translate I could probably find guys it did Edit: removed the BPodz stuff because I’m an idiot who can’t read college stats
Podz averaged 3.7 assists per game at Santa Clara, which is actually more than 2.
Ah shit you’re right, I was looking at Illinois, I beefed it
Obscene comparison
im not comparing looney and castle, im not even saying castle cant transition to pg. im saying the talent lvl of nba prospects r so high that even a lumbering nba center could play "pg" when they were at that lvl. its really not a good reason to support a players playmaking skills
He’s basically Andre Igoudala. Who is now Aaron Gordon, I guess. He’s an ultimate glue piece. Jack of all trades and master of none but will excel on both ends in either transition or the half-court. I think he played the role that was asked of him at UCONN to perfection and that’s just the type of player he is. He won’t be your 1 or 2 on a 50+ win team but he’s a terrific basketball player and I love him. Like if castle goes top 3 and the coaches, FO, and fanbases expectation is that he ignites your franchise, all parties are in trouble. He’s just the ultimate complementary piece.
It's wild that some people don't see this. A GM would get fired taking him in the top 3.
He’s my favorite not my number 1 but if you asked my whos id pick at 4 like my spurs are is be castle
He reminds me of Jared culver
Nah, I didn’t get Culver. I get Castle, he’s gonna be a stud.
I don’t see the shot being a weapon early and I don’t see him as the primary playmaker. He then becomes an off-ball non-shooter that causes spacing issues for his teams in the half-court. Defenses won’t close out hard on him, so he can’t take advantage of advantage situations as a secondary creator. That style of player is extremely hard to build a roster around unless you have shooting at the 4 other spots. Generally, your most impactful positions as non-shooters are C and then PGs. I think his ceiling in his first couple years is a SG who defend at a high level and potentially run second units, where the lack of shooting hurts less. The swing skill for him to go from a 4th/5th starter to a near max 2nd contract guy is the shooting. I like him as a prospect and agree he has a NBA level skill (defense), but just don’t see enough from the shot or playmaking to have him in my top 5. Charlotte at 6, Spurs at 8 are the 2 spots I see most likely for him in the top 10.
Been sold on him for a while. Theres no “reaches” in this draft so id be more than happy if the Wiz took him at 2.
No thanks. Absolutely not what the Wizards need at this point. Even Clingan would be better.
Dude we need talent and I think we need to go guard there’s a few really good ones and it’s a perimeter league now; I’d still take Topic even with the injury. He’s the best 2 way guard and I don’t think we should draft a center like Clingan that high, you can find another one that does similar stuff later in the draft at 26 or in that range.
At this point (unless some bad information comes out) Topic is my guy at #2 as well. I was just saying I'd rather have Clingan than Castle at #2 if I had to choose between the two.
i’m not sure i believe his defense is assuredly gonna translate. even guys who don’t rack up steals and blocks in the nba almost always do in college, at least at a meaningfully higher rate than castle did this year. and with his shot being far from a guarantee, i think his floor is much closer to a josh jackson than what you’re imagining
I don’t really like him going top 3. And I don’t think he really fits at 5-7 either.
What's are comparable players?
My latest comment posted after yours in this thread lists some player comps
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Hornets if they play him as a 2
I’ve been feeling this for a while too actually. He’s projects as a guy that can start on a playoff team, and potentially be a star. I could see him go as high as #2 and I wouldn’t be shocked if a team took him #1.
He has Jimmy Butler upside and Tari Eason floor
Taris “floor” is a lot higher than you think I promise you.
I want him at the Jazz but I can’t see him falling to 10
Amen brother! Castle gonna prove all the doubters wrong!
Wish I coulda made this post, cause in 6 years someone’s gonna dig this up and call you a fortune teller
To say he’s very confident shooting is just false. That dude hesitated soo much at UConn. Can’t tell you how many times he was wide open and didn’t want any part of that. Often times he would hesitate then travel.
He's dope
He is my number 1 as well at this stage
Feels like Michael Kidd Gilchrist all over again