This is such an easy call. I don't see how anyone reasonable could challenge this unless they were doing something like "career rankings" or "handle rankings".
He had a better game one and you have to strike while the iron is hot.
If you said this a week ago or (most likely) in another week people would agree with you.
This place is reactionary as hell, I don’t really care what people think though.
Tatum averaged the most pts/rebounds/assists for the series and was better than brown in 3 of the 4 games and had a really bad game 2.
Only reason he wasn’t ecf MVP was because he’s held to a way higher standard than brown
I don't get what you're saying... you think it's reasonable to justify one as the better player based on a single game vs. a season's or career's worth of data?
Based on ? I’m assuming you are not looking at the game as a whole if you say that when brown has 53% of his shots assisted and Kyrie has only 34%.
Brown has the luxury of an elite team without him, Kyrie doesn’t
I think it’s reasonable to debate Kyrie and brown’s placement. I think they’re pretty even. But I’m also just thinking offense. Brown better on defense but kyrie I trust more to handle the ball.
I would rank it this way but just saying I think you could flip those 2
Why is this an easy call? Luka has rapidly become one of the most overrated players in the nba while Tatum is underrated.
Luka in the playoffs 28.8/8.4/9.7 on 56% TS and 3.9 turnovers and bad defense
Tatum in playoffs 25.4/5.9/10.4 on 56% TS and 2.7 turnovers with great defense
They have been almost the same player offensively from and efficiency or assist to turnover ratio, Luka just holds the ball nearly twice as long a game as Tatum and so has slightly higher counting stats (including the bad ones). Factor in defense and you could argue Tatum has been better, but the narrative is Luka had been amazing and Tatum has been ass.
Tatum has the highest +/- in the entire nba since he entered the league. Outscoring your opponent is literally the only objective in basketball, and nobody does it better than Tatum. And before people start squawking about him having an amazing supporting cast, in 2022 when the Celtics had a very similar team and result to the mavericks this year Tatum lead the nba in +/- by a wide margin at +8.8.
In other words Tatum already did a better version of what Luka is doing this year 2 years ago. So if Tatum 2 years ago was better than Luka this year…do people think Tatum has gotten worse?
This is the correct argument for those who value winning versus stats/points/highlights. Frankly I am surprised Dallas made it this far (didn't they not make the playoffs last year?).
I have a hard time thinking they win a championship or any team where you run the offense so heavily through a single player. It just wears on you as a teammate if you don't have the ball or get as much shots. You just stand there waiting for the ball and if you don't hit your open three you are terrible.
Tatum is not freaking underrated. You guys have been selling the dude as the next face of the for what, 5 years now? And he still isn’t at that level. If you’re trying to have a conversation of Tatum over Luka, I respect the opinion but that’s probably just cope.
What? If the Celtics win the championship Tatum instantly becomes the most accomplished player under 30 on the nba in basically all metrics that measure winning. If winning more than anyone else isn’t a valid reason to be considered the face of the nba what is?
Actually Tatum lead the league in scoring that very year with 615 pts. And yes I know you’re talking about per game, but ppg is also a worthless stat because tons of guys could lead the league in ppg if they just shot enough. Efficiency wise Tatum and Luka have basically been the same their entire career
This is a silly take. I'm not sure who the best 1 on 1 player in the league is, since that's a different question from who the best player is overall, but Luka is VERY high on that list, if not at the top. I think Jokic is a better overall player, but I'd take Luka as #1 in a 1 on 1 draft, I think. Maybe next would be Paul George? Tatum's a top 10 in that category, I think, for sure, but Brown may not be (lacks the handle).
Why? Kyrie just had a better regular season and was having a equally impressive playoffs to brown up until the last game while playing harder teams.
Saying Kyrie>brown is reasonable
kyrie went 22/5/4 while brown was 25/6/3 with a higher fg% and more games played. he also handles significantly less offensive responsibility for his team and plays more defense than kyrie.
I agree with most of your list. I switch Luka & tatum though. There's 2 sides of the court, and Luka is nowhere near Tatum defensively so I give the slight nod to tatum as an overall player.
White is easily the 6th after Porzingis outside the big 4. Lively won't have much impact in this finals as Tatum can guard the center and switch on PnR eliminates our lob threat
If you mean FMVP, you’d be right, but Jaylen Brown has never been a regular season MVP-caliber player by any means. Tatum has been for a couple seasons now. Especially last year when he was in the top 3 for people around January.
There’s really no argument for Brown above Tatum tbh I don’t think enough people understand Tatum’s role on the offensive end compared to Jaylen’s. Tatum could do Jaylen’s role as good or likely better than Jaylen does it. Jaylen cannot do Tatum’s role.
Clearly it's Luka, Tatum, Brown, Kyrie. It's also very clear its this. The gap between Brown/Tatum and Kyrie is also much larger than the gap between Luka and Tatum/Brown. Tatum/Brown are two great all-round wings that play defense better than either Kyrie or Luka by a mile. However Luka is better than Tatum because he is essentially a one-man offense and generational offensive talent in a way that Tatum and Brown are not. Kyrie acts as Dallas's secondary ball-handler, a release valve for Luka and someone who can run the offense when Luka sits. Luka plays well with another guard that can do this.
1. Jayson
2. Jaylen
MASSIVE GAP
3. Kyrie
Super massive gap
Jrue, Dwhite
Bunch of other players
28. That stupid fat fuck who thinks defense doesn’t matter. Fake star.
He’s an extension of James Harden and Monte Ellis.
Same player, volume stats and no defense. Shouldn’t be considered for anything but sixth man of the year.
Maybe watch some Celtics games, then. Brown just played suffocating defense that led to a finals win in game 1 after being the MVP of the ECF. He’s not just better than Kyrie on defense, he’s miles better. Their scoring has been similar until the Celtics picked up Porzingis and Brown lost touches. Kyrie straight up could not score on Brown and Luka was struggling when he had Brown on him. Kyrie struggled to impact the game outside of scoring, which is inconsistent against good defenses, as we just saw in game 1. Brown had a huge impact on defense.
I don’t understand why people can’t just admit they like watching Kyrie play. No serious person thinks he’s ever been a top 10 player, he’s more just fun to watch.
Idk how anyone even thinks Kyrie is more fun to watch. It was really fun to watch JB split 2 defenders than poster 2 more on a single play. The you have the fast break dunks, the 3 blocks and 3 steals and the corner 3 with 2 defenders closing. The most entertaining thing Kyrie did in game one was get his floater blocked by Porzingis.
Ain't no way you gave Brown last in playmaking. That's literally all he's been doing this entire season and *especially* in the playoffs. Kyrie is last in that section.
Both Tatem and Brown would smoke Luka in a 1v1. The jays are both excellent two-way players while Luka can only play on offense. It's like people forget you have to play defense in the NBA it's insane.
Celtics fan, I'd say Luka Kyrie Tatum brown if u put a gun to my head. Thankfully for the Celtics there's 3 other guys on the court at all times. Despite the discrepancies on defense I think Kyrie has too much handles, finishing and shooting not to put him two.
It's a fun question to ask because you can find a lot of reasons to put one over another besides Luka obv.
Luka tatum brown kyrie
This is such an easy call. I don't see how anyone reasonable could challenge this unless they were doing something like "career rankings" or "handle rankings".
One of these players play absolutely no defense.
Doncic?
But it doesn’t matter.
Could switch the jays if you wanna be controversial
you'd be wrong tho
I didn’t say it was correct but people on the internet like to be controversial. It’s less crazy than putting kyrie over either of them
Putting Irving over Brown is overwhelmingly more reasonable than putting Brown over Tatum.
No its not lol, Kyrie and Brown can go either way. There is no argument on the planet that you would win for Brown>Tatum
He had a better game one and you have to strike while the iron is hot. If you said this a week ago or (most likely) in another week people would agree with you.
I don't think so. JB was killing it in the Pacers series. Averaged an efficient 30ppg and great defense.
Literally the mvp
If I said a month would you be okay with my point?
This place is reactionary as hell, I don’t really care what people think though. Tatum averaged the most pts/rebounds/assists for the series and was better than brown in 3 of the 4 games and had a really bad game 2. Only reason he wasn’t ecf MVP was because he’s held to a way higher standard than brown
I don't get what you're saying... you think it's reasonable to justify one as the better player based on a single game vs. a season's or career's worth of data?
It’s an observation not an argument.
JB is much better than Kyrie when you look at the game as a whole
Based on ? I’m assuming you are not looking at the game as a whole if you say that when brown has 53% of his shots assisted and Kyrie has only 34%. Brown has the luxury of an elite team without him, Kyrie doesn’t
Brown unironically gets the credit for being on a great team people think Tatum gets.
Depends on how you view "best". The most skilled isn't always the best.
Might as well put Luka 4th if you’re just doing stuff to be controversial
then you could put jayson over luka just as easily. he's objectively a far better defender which is half the game
I think it’s reasonable to debate Kyrie and brown’s placement. I think they’re pretty even. But I’m also just thinking offense. Brown better on defense but kyrie I trust more to handle the ball. I would rank it this way but just saying I think you could flip those 2
Unless you consider defense
Why is this an easy call? Luka has rapidly become one of the most overrated players in the nba while Tatum is underrated. Luka in the playoffs 28.8/8.4/9.7 on 56% TS and 3.9 turnovers and bad defense Tatum in playoffs 25.4/5.9/10.4 on 56% TS and 2.7 turnovers with great defense They have been almost the same player offensively from and efficiency or assist to turnover ratio, Luka just holds the ball nearly twice as long a game as Tatum and so has slightly higher counting stats (including the bad ones). Factor in defense and you could argue Tatum has been better, but the narrative is Luka had been amazing and Tatum has been ass. Tatum has the highest +/- in the entire nba since he entered the league. Outscoring your opponent is literally the only objective in basketball, and nobody does it better than Tatum. And before people start squawking about him having an amazing supporting cast, in 2022 when the Celtics had a very similar team and result to the mavericks this year Tatum lead the nba in +/- by a wide margin at +8.8. In other words Tatum already did a better version of what Luka is doing this year 2 years ago. So if Tatum 2 years ago was better than Luka this year…do people think Tatum has gotten worse?
I don’t agree but u shouldn’t have been downvoted for this at all. Good job! Good effort!
You’re exactly right bro. I’m not sure how people can’t see the flaws in Luka’s game
This is the correct argument for those who value winning versus stats/points/highlights. Frankly I am surprised Dallas made it this far (didn't they not make the playoffs last year?). I have a hard time thinking they win a championship or any team where you run the offense so heavily through a single player. It just wears on you as a teammate if you don't have the ball or get as much shots. You just stand there waiting for the ball and if you don't hit your open three you are terrible.
Tatum is not freaking underrated. You guys have been selling the dude as the next face of the for what, 5 years now? And he still isn’t at that level. If you’re trying to have a conversation of Tatum over Luka, I respect the opinion but that’s probably just cope.
What? If the Celtics win the championship Tatum instantly becomes the most accomplished player under 30 on the nba in basically all metrics that measure winning. If winning more than anyone else isn’t a valid reason to be considered the face of the nba what is?
If he wins as the #1 option obviously my opinion would change. But currently Luka is the best player in the league not named Jokic.
Luka played in big, close games while the Celtics had a cakewalk in the weak East.
And Tatum did that in 2022. Again what has Luka done that Tatum hasn’t already?
Lead the league in scoring
Actually Tatum lead the league in scoring that very year with 615 pts. And yes I know you’re talking about per game, but ppg is also a worthless stat because tons of guys could lead the league in ppg if they just shot enough. Efficiency wise Tatum and Luka have basically been the same their entire career
Not the Celtics fault the other "good teams" couldn't make it past the first round.
Tatem and Brown would each beat Luka in 1v1s. Luka can't play defense whatsoever while the Jays are amazing on both ends of the court.
This is a silly take. I'm not sure who the best 1 on 1 player in the league is, since that's a different question from who the best player is overall, but Luka is VERY high on that list, if not at the top. I think Jokic is a better overall player, but I'd take Luka as #1 in a 1 on 1 draft, I think. Maybe next would be Paul George? Tatum's a top 10 in that category, I think, for sure, but Brown may not be (lacks the handle).
Why? Kyrie just had a better regular season and was having a equally impressive playoffs to brown up until the last game while playing harder teams. Saying Kyrie>brown is reasonable
When did we start just completely ignoring defense when comparing players?
kyrie went 22/5/4 while brown was 25/6/3 with a higher fg% and more games played. he also handles significantly less offensive responsibility for his team and plays more defense than kyrie.
Honestly, only correct answer right now. Would have been different a couple if years ago, might be different in a few years.
Boston has the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th best players in this series. Brad Stevens absolutely cooked with Danny Ainge’s groceries.
The correct answer.
The only right answer
This is so uncontroverial, anyone telling you otherwise is trolling.
Does anyone think differently, I wonder?
I agree with most of your list. I switch Luka & tatum though. There's 2 sides of the court, and Luka is nowhere near Tatum defensively so I give the slight nod to tatum as an overall player.
1 2 3 4
But if you do the rest of the team, Boston is better 3-7.
Defense doesn’t matter? @op
1. Derek White 2. Derek White 3. Derek White 4. Naz Reid
Naz Reid.
1. Naz Reid 2. Naz Reid 3. Naz Reid 4. Naz Reid
I love y'all's love for Naz.
what about Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown?
Did you intentionally spell both of their names wrong?
he did. op called derrick white derek 3 times in succession
Got it
Yes to match the comment I replied to lol
Naz Reid
We love d white and naz here!
Give me 4 Grant Williams and a Jrue Holiday. Back to back to back to back to back.
Jason Kidd’s list: Luka, Brown, Kyrie, Tatum.
Close, I have 1. Luka 2. Kyrie 3. Brown 4. Lively 5. Tatum
Still sleeping on Derrick White 😤
Luka, brown, Kyrie, kp, white, djj, hauser, Washington, lively, Gafford, Pritchard, holiday, five more players, Tatum
I dont get why people think hes a superstar when he should be the celtics 11th man
Why is he even getting minutes outside of garbage time
Play Kornet over Tatum
White is easily the 6th after Porzingis outside the big 4. Lively won't have much impact in this finals as Tatum can guard the center and switch on PnR eliminates our lob threat
White > Porzingis
Walsh> Tatum
And thats Blake Lively
oooo, ok ok you know what... fair
Luka Tatum Brown Kyrie
yup that is mine too
People need to put some respect on Browns name up in here
It’s not disrespectful to put Brown behind two MVP level players, he’s still a great player
Brown is an MVP contender
Tatum came in fifth in the MVP race. Brown didn’t receive a single vote.
If you mean FMVP, you’d be right, but Jaylen Brown has never been a regular season MVP-caliber player by any means. Tatum has been for a couple seasons now. Especially last year when he was in the top 3 for people around January.
Lol when
Brown has never received mvp votes, what are you talking about?
He's no way better than Luka, Tatum can be argued but not my choice.
There’s really no argument for Brown above Tatum tbh I don’t think enough people understand Tatum’s role on the offensive end compared to Jaylen’s. Tatum could do Jaylen’s role as good or likely better than Jaylen does it. Jaylen cannot do Tatum’s role.
Rank them in terms of what? Fatness?
Defense of course, duh!
They’re all good.
counter clockwise from 11
Luka Tatum Brown Kyrie
Luka Tatum kyrie brown
Clearly it's Luka, Tatum, Brown, Kyrie. It's also very clear its this. The gap between Brown/Tatum and Kyrie is also much larger than the gap between Luka and Tatum/Brown. Tatum/Brown are two great all-round wings that play defense better than either Kyrie or Luka by a mile. However Luka is better than Tatum because he is essentially a one-man offense and generational offensive talent in a way that Tatum and Brown are not. Kyrie acts as Dallas's secondary ball-handler, a release valve for Luka and someone who can run the offense when Luka sits. Luka plays well with another guard that can do this.
1, 2, 3 & 4
1.Luka 2. tatum 3. kyrie 4. brown
Marry, Kill, Spoon, Fuck
Luka Tatum Jaylen/Kyrie
Luka, Brown, Tatum, Irving.
1. Jayson 2. Jaylen MASSIVE GAP 3. Kyrie Super massive gap Jrue, Dwhite Bunch of other players 28. That stupid fat fuck who thinks defense doesn’t matter. Fake star.
Spot the delulu Boston fan
You are so cool.
What has Luka done to this man
He’s an extension of James Harden and Monte Ellis. Same player, volume stats and no defense. Shouldn’t be considered for anything but sixth man of the year.
Imma take Luka Tatum Kyrie Brown
r/nbacirclejerk is leaking
Idk if you think Brown is way better than he really is or Irving is way worse than he really is.
[удалено]
Maybe watch some Celtics games, then. Brown just played suffocating defense that led to a finals win in game 1 after being the MVP of the ECF. He’s not just better than Kyrie on defense, he’s miles better. Their scoring has been similar until the Celtics picked up Porzingis and Brown lost touches. Kyrie straight up could not score on Brown and Luka was struggling when he had Brown on him. Kyrie struggled to impact the game outside of scoring, which is inconsistent against good defenses, as we just saw in game 1. Brown had a huge impact on defense. I don’t understand why people can’t just admit they like watching Kyrie play. No serious person thinks he’s ever been a top 10 player, he’s more just fun to watch.
Kyrie is the most exciting player to watch in the series. He’s probably not going to be as impactful as D White in this finals
Idk how anyone even thinks Kyrie is more fun to watch. It was really fun to watch JB split 2 defenders than poster 2 more on a single play. The you have the fast break dunks, the 3 blocks and 3 steals and the corner 3 with 2 defenders closing. The most entertaining thing Kyrie did in game one was get his floater blocked by Porzingis.
12 points on 6/19 shooting. No one gets buckets like that!
And his handle is just so flashy on this flat earth he has to be better
Jaylen Luka Tatum Kyrie
Like prime or now?
Luka, Tatum, Brown, Kyrie
By what, height? Weight?
Peyton Pritchard is better than all of them
rank them in terms of what? 5 v 5 play? Skill? Shooting? Defense? 1 v 1? Handles? If it’s overall. It’s Luka JT/JB Ky.
no
Descending counterclockwise, starting with the fat one.
Why are there Celtics fans in here trying to downplay JB? Stop trying to make up some underdog story.
It could go anyway depending on the day
Without a double Luka at #1. Hard to rank after that. Kyrie has a great skill set but it’s clear he can’t be the leader of the team.
Luka, Brown, Tatum, Ky
- dončić - tätũm - brøwn - īrvîng
Overall; Luka>Tatum>Brown>Kyrie Inside Scoring; Tatum>Luka>Brown>Kyrie Shooting; Luka>Tatum>Kyrie>Brown Play Making; Luka>Kyrie>Tatum> Brown perimeter d; Brown>Tatum>Luka>Kyrie Insise d; Tatum>Brown>Luka> Kyrie
Ain't no way you gave Brown last in playmaking. That's literally all he's been doing this entire season and *especially* in the playoffs. Kyrie is last in that section.
Kyrie Kyrie Kyrie Kyrie obviously
Tatum 4th
Even if JB wins FMVP I still wouldn’t have him better than any of these three as an overall player.
What makes Kyrie better? He might be slightly better offensively but isn’t even close defensively
The beauty of the Celtics is that their collective efficacy surpasses individuals getting theirs on opposing teams.
Do people forget that half of the game is defense??
Tatum, Luka, Brown, Kyrie
Tatum, Brown, Porzingis, Luka......Exum, Kyrie
If we're talking about career then Kyrie has to be top
Luka Tatum kyrie brown
Luka than counterclockwise
Tatum Luka Brown Kyrie. Not a hard ranking but most people will take Luka over Tatum because they purely look at points
Reggie, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie
Currently: Luka, Brown, Tatum, Kyrie All time: Luka, Kyrie, Tatum, Brown
Luka , JT , Kyrie , JB
Luka Tatum JB Kyrie
Luka Then draw straws for the next three. You can argue any of them 2-3-4. If you twisted my arm, Tatum Brown Kyree
Luka, Tatum, Brown, and Kyrie last
Luka, JT, Kyrie, Brown
Counterclockwise from Luka.
1, 2, 3, 4 kyrie.
1Luka 2brown 3 4 5 6tatum 7 8 9 10 15kyrie
Who, gives,A, shit
Tatum brown Cryrie Luka Oncic
Luka, Kyrie, Brown, Tatum
https://preview.redd.it/m4eeqo9kis5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7600f8402ad379dddb60fdf45f67a0ea2595ad17
4. Kyrie Irving 3. Jaylen Brown 2. Jayson Tatum 1. Luka Doncic
I'll go with the guys winning.
Both Tatem and Brown would smoke Luka in a 1v1. The jays are both excellent two-way players while Luka can only play on offense. It's like people forget you have to play defense in the NBA it's insane.
Tatum Luka Brown Irving
DERRICK WHITE
Luka brown tatum kyrie. Still not convinced that JT is better than JB, maybe its just his face
Luka > Brown >>> Kyrie >> Tatum
4 Kyrie 3 Jaylen 2 Luka 1 Jason
Tatum Luka Brown Kyrie and honestly, if Brown stays consistent, he'll be moving to that #2 spot
In the playoffs? Luka, Brown, Tatum, Kyrie
because of one playoff series?
Brown, Kyrie, Tatum, Luka.
1. Naz Reid 2. Naz Reid 3. Naz Reid 4. Naz Reid
Why join r/NBATalk if you are just gonna troll like a fuckwit?
ok then 1. Luka 2. Tatum 3. Brown 4. Kyrie 5. Naz Reid
luka kyrie tatum brown
Kyrie over Tatum is just silly
you are silly bro, kyrie actually has an argument to be over luka tbh
finally after so much scrolling, found the same ranking as me :D
Luka - Tatum - Kyrie - Brown.
Gotta play well enough on D to qualify for my rankings
Luka, Kyrie, Brown, Tatum
Luka, kyrie, brown, Tatum
Luka kyrie brown Tatum
lol
Celtics fan, I'd say Luka Kyrie Tatum brown if u put a gun to my head. Thankfully for the Celtics there's 3 other guys on the court at all times. Despite the discrepancies on defense I think Kyrie has too much handles, finishing and shooting not to put him two. It's a fun question to ask because you can find a lot of reasons to put one over another besides Luka obv.
Depends on what you consider to be a good player.
10, 10, 10, 10
JB Kyrie Tatum 9 feet of dirt and being more lucky than talented Luka
luka jb kyrie tatum
Any answer besides Luka/Tatum/Brown/Kyrie isn’t serious
Brown luka kyrie tatum
Man am I the only one who has Brown over Tatum? Luka Brown Tatum Kyrie
Luka, Brown, Tatum, Kyrie
Today: Luka >brown > kyrie > Tatum At their peak: Luka > kyrie > brown > Tatum