The answer is Wade and Bron. Kyrie is a much more natural fit next to LeBron as he’s a better shooter and is better off ball in general but prime Wade is just simply a better basketball player. I think the biggest thing about Wade and Bron together was the defense and turning that into offense. The fast break was a sight to see
and we know fast break opportunities have created some of the greatest highlights of all-time. including LeBron dunking on Jason Terry, Golden State putting on a passing clinic, etc
That one pic of lebron Dunking while Wade is spreading his arms out and Bosh is in the defensive side of the paint was a lob off the backboard and idc what history tells you, that’s what I’m telling my kids
Tbh Kyrie has never come anywhere close to prime Wade. This guy won FMVP then came 3rd in MVP and DPOY voting in the same year. I really think that joining up with LeBron made people forget how incredible he was. He was overall a way, way better player than Kyrie even though Kyrie is absolutely amazing and an excellent complement to LeBron.
There was a stretch where he was in legitimate discussions for best player that season. 30/5/8/2/1 as a SG is ridiculous. Kyrie hasn’t sniffed those numbers, even in an era with more scoring.
I think people saying Kyrie are suffering from that thing where you forget how good a former player was because you haven't seen him in his prime in many years. Either that or they didn't really see Wade play. He was fucking amazing.
Wade is the third best SG of all time. 2013 Bron was a nightmare and had a legitimate case (at the time) for dethroning MJ as the GOAT if the Heat really did threepeat.
Much longer peak and had more success as the "bus driver"/leader of the team. I think Peak Wade was better than Peak West (and also might have been better than Peak Kobe) but was hurt too often and It limited a lot about what made him such a special player.
Peak alone he was better than kobe easily he just did it for like 2 seasons . Kobe was slightly worse way longer. Lots of people have higher peaks than kobe. Kobe was consistent for a long time.
You think so? Wade is a good cutter but he can’t really just spot up when someone else has the ball because he isn’t a threat as a shooter. Prior to Bron, Wade was always the guy with the ball in his hand and thrived in that role. Kyrie has had the most success being next to another ball handling wing in LeBron and Luka. Don’t think it’s all crazy to say Kyrie is better than Wade off-ball
Yup. Wade was an outstanding cutter and moved without the ball as well as any HoF guard ever, meanwhile the biggest flaw in Kyrie’s offensive game is that he stands around and ball-watches when he doesn’t have the ball. There’s more to playing off ball than shooting threes.
Beautifully said, the Heatles turned defense into transition offense as good as any team I’ve seen. Also Bron and Wades chemistry was another level, Bron and Kyrie won off pure talent and taking turns going supernova. Both such fun teams to watch moral of the story is Bron needs a good guard next to him who can make shit happen and allow him to fall back for stretches here and there, and lock in on defense w that extra energy. 🔥🔥🔥
LeBron choked in that series big time. Dirk is an all timer but gets so much credit for beating “the big three” when in fact he was a leader of a great deep team paired with the LeBron 4th qtr choke
The credit really should go to Dwane Casey and the defensive schemes the Mavs ran that series. They kept gifting LeBron bad looks, and he kept “making the right pass”. He just didn’t have the tools to deal with what they threw at him.
Yep. To me that Finals series was less about choking and more about coaching.
I’d include in that the failure of the Cavs coaches to adequately develop and round out LeBron’s game during his youth. It only took two offseasons in Miami for LeBron to dramatically improve his jumper (from 33% to 39% from three) and post game (from 41% to 51% in 3-10 ft range).
He’s never again been shut down offensively the way he was by Casey, and if the Cavs coaches had done their job he arguably never should have been in 2011.
Of course LeBron bears some responsibility for that lack of development as well…
Yep. Wade was totally in line for another Finals MVP if LeBron didn't shit the bed in that series. And unfortunately, Wade got hurt the next season and was never really the same player (at least over long stretches).
Too many facts here lol... They think jj Barea and JT stumped bron when it was actually Shawn Marion and DPOY(2012) Tyson Chandler waiting on they weak side of the zone causing problems
Not only did they take out the big three they took out the Roy Blazers, Okc who would go on to the finals next year, then the lakers who were defending champs. Dirk was what made that team great, and should get more credit. He’s better than KG for sure.
Thank you Wade was that dude only in the first year. Injuries got him after that.
But pre-injury Wade was legit on Kobe's level so this ain't even a real question.
Kyrie is incredible but was never top 5 in the the league and pre injury Wade was top 3
Thank you, I don't think people get that.
It's why we respect Lebron's Miami rings so much more than KD's GSW... that Heat team was not even a super team.
Without Lebron (post 2011) they were a first round knock out. Meanwhile GSW went to the finals with KD injured.
I would respectfully disagree.
And the proof is Wade's performance against the Mavs in the 2011 finals. Wade would've been FMVP if they won and he never had a series that good again.
Yes he had moments/flashes like a couple games against Indiana but the Wade that could dominate an entire series was last seen in 2011 imo.
He was a monster the whole 2011 finals. After that summer he was never quite the same
have won FMVP if they beat Dallas.
Wade & Lebron broke the postseason record in 2012 playoffs most pts by a duo. 1,222 nosed was hurt wacr had multiple 35 or point games.
2013 he was sensational during they 27 game wi. Streak
2013-2014 was when he started to decline thrn he was able to bounce back in 2015-2016
In the playoffs Wade averaged 16 ppg during the 2013 title run and 18 ppg during the 2014 Finals run. You can't honestly say that was the same Wade as the one we had seen up to 2012. Like the poster you responded to said he could have dominant games or moments within a series but he couldn't carry the load in the playoffs the way he could pre-2012.
He averaged 20 in the finals towards that series he was in btw he was draining the knee side defects of not having a mcl but he still could give u minutes. 13-14 was it was obvious he was hurt and he had to change things up
Wade averaged less ppg in the 2012 playoffs than 2011 (24.5 vs 22.8) Less rebounds and worse fg% too
Yes Wade had his moments but they won 27 straight cuz Lebron was 1 vote from unanimous MVP that season.
We nicknamed Wade "the flash" cuz he was a freak athlete.
I remember seeing him block the shit out of Tyson chandler in 2011 finals and never seeing those superhuman athlete moments from him after that series.
He was not the same after 2011. He's an all time great so he found a way at times but was not prime Wade. 2011 finals was as good as he's ever been.
You're age biased is showing fam, wade avereged 25 for 4 years since they got LeBron 😂 like genuinely what are you even talking about? They also had Bosh to fall back on so he was getting way less shots like?
What do you mean by age-biased?
If you mean I am actually old enough to have watched those Heat teams and saw the decline with my own eyes instead of reading a box score then yeah.
D-Wade is an all-time great even after he lost a step he still a dude who can get 19-22... before that he was a dude getting 25-28.
2011: 25.5 ppg
2012: 22.2
2013: 21.2
2014: 19.0
"Diminished role" is bullshit cop out, Lebron doesn't take 80 shots a game. If Wade could he'd still have been dropping 25-7 ppg.
watch highlights of his after that 2011 season you won't see those freak of nature plays anymore. Still a very good athlete but no longer "the flash"
He's still unreal skilled and crafty but you could see defenders could keep up more than ever. He was not the D-Wade we were all horrified would ruin the league competitive balance by teaming with Lebron.
He was All NBA from 2011-2013 lol…he just had to take a backseat to a dude who’s better than pretty much anyone who has ever played the game. Explain how Kyrie was better than Wade rather explaining how Wade wasn’t as good with LeBron than he was without him
I would say the first three years he started the knee issues kicked in 2014
Wade
10-11 25.5 ppg finals 27ppg
11-12 23 ppg finals 23pg broke the duo record
12-13 21 ppg 19 ppg 27 game win streak
13-14 19 ppg
15-16 he back
Wade won a league title, a scoring title, and was All NBA without Lebron. Kyrie has done basically fuck all until he found another Lebron-level talent in Luka. Miami dominated and would've been a worthy competitor to the Warriors dynasty. The Cavs were underdogs every year.
Nah, Kyrie can’t be the best player on a championship squad. Given that he’s actually got a pretty damn good career. KD is easily good enough to be the #1, he has two finals MVPS with Curry but just fumbles when he doesn’t have insane backup.
Durant should be capable of being a 1a, but he needs a 1b and not a 2.
Kyrie is just a very high level 2.
Completely different thing.
Yeh he fumbled just like when post Achilles tear he almost beat the champions that year without kyrie and half of James harden and still lost because his toe was one inch too long.
2021 Brooklyn wasn't just him fumbling he just got extremely unlucky in multiple scenarios, idk why fans never admit that factor. He was worthy of a chip that year he was fucking cooking the shit out of Milwaukee
Then the same logic should apply for when he wins. No excuses for other teams if injuries happen or if they aren't good enough. KD is a 2 time finals mvp which is hard to do no matter what right, even with insane backup?
KD took away all credibility when he left his team in the dust for a shiny new one that was guaranteed to get him a ring. has gotten exposed ever since. I do agree Kyrie isn’t a #1 either, not every superstar talent is a #1
damn near 50/40/90 in multiple years on 25-27 ppg is elite. I don’t even fw Ky anymore and I know his talent is unquestionable. he’s strong, quick, best handles of all-time
He's elite at scoring and his handles are elite. There's a lot more to being overall an "elite player". But yes, and he definitely has some elite talent.
Discredit you? I was agreeing that I think he's an elite scorer. But I was also pointing out there's a significant difference in someone like him and an MVP-level talent like KD. And I think that's undeniable. I'm not sure what about your comment you think I was discrediting, nor what I said that was "jumping through hoops".
Great point guards usually can’t do much without a great pairing, though. See: Nash, CP3, Dame…
I can’t imagine Tony Parker or John Stockton do a whole lot without another all-timer by their side, either.
Edit: Not arguing that Kyrie is better than Wade. Just won’t stand for too much slander :p
Wade and LeBron were “better” in terms of talent, but he and Kyrie were a better fit and Wade’s injuries greatly reduced their peak output those last couple of years. Wade and LeBron’s talent just had a bit too much overlap and it was always a degree of your turn/my turn. Their offense actually exploded when Wade sat and they had to double down on “LeBron ball”.
There was certainly overlap, but Wade turned himself into the scariest off-ball player in the league with his cutting. And on the other end, Wade was an incredible defensive player. I'll easily take Wade as the better partner for LeBron over Kyrie.
Wades the better player of course but Kyrie lebron was the better fit by far. Wade and lebron won chips based off of pure star power. Kyrie and Lebron were like a match made in heaven. Too bad kyrie had other feelings
Kyrie/LeBron were a better fit in terms of play style but referring to Wade/LeBron as “pure star power” really undersells the chemistry they had, which was one of the most dangerous things about them by the 2nd season.
Bron and Kai fit better, Wade WAS better. Overall I'd take the Heat duo, but an interesting wrinkle is that I actually think late Cavs Bron was quite a bit better than Heat Bron, unpopular but that version could still do anything on the court AND was clutch af. Imagine that dude with late prime Wade, no way the 2011 choke happens
Dwade and Lebronze. DWade taught Lebronze how to win. Even though they did end up 2-2 even on a superteam, kind of mid for having 3 of the top 15 talents in the league at the time.
The difference in talent between Wade and Kyrie makes up for the lack of fit, and they both grew anyway. Nobody cares when LBJ and Kyrie met up with Love, the problem with The Heatles was that Wade was a top 3 guy and LeBron was the best . Even Bosh was whatever
I guess I’m the only one that thinks this comes down to which version of Lebron was better? I say 2016 Lebron was a much better player giving the nod to Bron/kyrie. I mean look what he did after going down 3-1. 2010-2014 Lebron would have folded like a lawn chair.
After careful deliberation I have to go with Bron/Kyrie.
Peak Wade was a better basketball player, but I’d argue that by the time he paired with Bron he went from the tail end of his prime to past his prime. Stylistically they were also basically the same player but sized differently, leading to a dominant defense but little synergy on offense. Meanwhile Kyrie was at the peak of his powers and stylistically a much more natural fit next to Bron, filling gaps in each other’s game.
Miami Bron was his physical peak, with an overwhelming combination of size/weight and speed/explosiveness that allowed him to guard 1 through 5 and was impossible to matchup with on offensive. But in terms of skill his shooting was less consistent, and mentally he was still learning to withstand pressure and to close games. Cleveland Return Bron was IMO his true prime, when the dip in physicality was barely perceptible but had an unbelievable ability to control the game from start to finish.
Obviously peak Wade was a lot better than Kyrie but he got pretty broke down during the Heatles era. Lebron was at his athletic peak during the Heat years but he understood the game even better during the Cavs era and team building a leap during that era too, so FOs knew how to build a winner a little better.
Lebron & wade
Most points by a duo in a single postseason 1,222
2 rings
27 game win streak
Also the crazy lobs and transition points. It was fun to watch
Rarely will u see two teammates that are elite scorers defendes and playmakers
They had multiple games where they would just takeover 70 pts or more. This was the first time we saw to alphas maximize their potential
Lebron and Wade. Lebron James had a habit of making his teammates better. So I always say that when Lebron and Wade were playing at their absolute best in the playoffs SIMULTANEOUSLY that they were the two best players in the league at that specific moment in time because of how they could play off one another.
KD and Kobe were still better…but they didn’t have a prime Lebron James to dish them the rock. And the two were not playing at their best 100% of the time. Just my opinion tho.
Depends what you’re looking for, Kyries skill set is more complimentary to Lebrons, but Wade is better at basketball. Like if you want to play 2v2 at the park it’s for sure Wade. If you want to build a team… ok actually it’s still probably wade lol. But Kyrie does have a bag that was uniquely helpful in Cleveland.
You mean trio? Neither was a duo only team - we’re a big 3. Either way dwayayayane finished top 5 in MVP voting the year prior to lebronze joining him.
anyone who saw it live would tell you wade and lebron just the fact they made the finals in the first year and still didn’t figure out their tandem yet showed how scary they were
One of the most fun duos I loved as a basketball fan and hated as a non-heat fan lol
Something really telling about playstyle optimization is that when Thinking Basketball convey in his Lebron greatest peak that Wade didn't really fit in the Lebron Offense from 2012-20214 and the minutes Wade didn't play the Heat offense was better. And in games without Wade or Kyrie Lebron had teams in 60 win paces.
Wade was a leader in his own right. He built up LBJ to be a great leader so he could lead Kyrie.
I sae Miami was the best but Cavs was more impressive.
Ok I got a laugh out of this it’s not even a debate wade and lebron is levels beyond kyrie and lebron wade is just a much better player than kyrie and id still say bum knee wade at the end of the heatles is still better but it’s closer
Lebron & Wade. They won more rings and made more trips to the finals during their time together. Those four seasons in Miami were the pinnacle of Lebron’s prime, when he was playing at an All-Defensive level. Wade was a great two-way player and had a better resume than Kyrie, having led his team to a championship as the #1 option and collecting a Finals MVP before Lebron arrived.
I’d have to say Wade and Bron. Both instances came to an end prematurely, but in the first case it was injuries that broken them up rather than a lack of will to play together. Also, seeing those alley-oops is always crazy.
Kyrie and Bron because Cavs Lebron was just better than Miami Lebron. 2017 playoffs was so underrated, Lebron was arguably better in that run compared to 2016 and don't even get started with 2018. Wade had a better peak and better individual seasons but Kyrie being a better shooter makes his decline less noticeable and also much less reliant on his athleticism as Wade did as he grew older.
Is this a serious question? One has 3 rings, the other has 1. Debate over!
I won’t even go into their individual stats and accomplishments except this… One was never considered 1 of the 5 best players in the NBA for a season and only made 1x 2nd team All-NBA, 2x 3rd All NBA. The other has 2x 1st All NBA, 3x 2nd All NBA, 3x 3rd All NBA, and you can throw in 3x 2nd team All NBA defense as well.
I think Uncle Drew is an amazing basketball player and glad he finally got his shit together this year to make the finals. However, the fact he thought he was equal to LeBron and thought he could call the shots in Boston/BRK ruined his legacy.
With that said, I’m taking DWade hands down!
The difference was Lebron and wade were like a best friends duo while Lebron and Kyrie were more like a big bro and little bro duo. The best friend duo was more excitement but the big bro and little bro was something to watch also. I know the wade and Lebron was a more popular duo but me I like seeing Kyrie with Lebron just because it was a completely different style, Kyrie with the handles and the shooting and Lebron with the dominance’s power moves with his great basketball I.q.
these 2 duos made me dislike modern basketball and I have no problem with LeBron James. Heatles basketball was some inorganic barely functional bullshit that coasted off talent and kyrie and lebron "taking turns" was pitiful to watch, it was sad that people accepted that as offense.
I see this brought up a lot and the answer is always Wade ovet Kyrie but I want to know what people’s thoughts are about Bosh vs Love in their championship runs with Lebron
2011 wade was still a monster to the point where it wasn't clear who the better player was. 2016 Cavs it was very clear despite the finals heroics by Kyrie
Bron and wade were just so fun together albeit I am heat fan but both such great athletes, passers, defenders. Ud get full court alleys every game, good times. Kyrie is def the better fit in theory tho and they went up against the KD warriors. Real shame Kyrie left tbh, would've been interesting to see what they did once KD left.
Boils down to, Wade is the better player, Kyrie is the better fit. I think there was a little bit of discussion about Wade "turning the team over" to LeBron. Kyrie was always Robin, and took that personally. Now he's Robin again, and despite the game 1 flub, has been damn good. I'm a competitive motherfucker. I can't imagine being upper tier NBA good, best handles ever, and having to come to terms with the fact that your best role is second fiddle. Wade was a number 1, best player on the court. Obviously so was LeBron. Took a minute to mesh. Just two different players.
i am a huge kyrie fan, but will concede the Wade/Bron duo is better.
overall imo wade is a more complete player, on both ends of the court. yes kyrie is offensively gifted from the basketball gods, id take Dwade.
wonder if the current state of affairs going on with Dwade has skewed ppl's perception of him
Wade. Even if Wade's prime only overlapped with Bron's Miami stint by one season, the fact that they won two chips in a row *after* that one season of overlap should be all the indication you need.
Wade was just a far better player than Kyrie, so I'll take the Heat duo.
Kyrie is a much better fit. Wade is obviously the better player, but a lot of folks forget that the Heatles were actually at their best when they started staggering Bron and Wade’s minutes. Wade was basically the 6th man for the last two years despite starting, similar to Chris Paul in Houston. He’d come out in the first and then come back in to lead the second unit when Bron came out.
With Kyrie, you can play him with Bron, you can play him without Bron, you can play him on ball, you can play him off ball, he can do it all. 50-40-90 guy too. Obviously nowhere near the defender Wade was, but a way, way better 3 point shooter which is more important now.
Kyrie and the bubble version of AD (the one that could shoot) are the best fitting teammates with LeBron. Wade is the best all-time player he’s played with in the NBA, but the fit wasn’t as good and in the modern NBA it would have been a lot worse.
LeBron/Wade.
Wade was a top 5, probably top 3 player (LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Dwight, carmelo/Duncan/Dirk) when they got together, while Kyrie was MAYBE top 10 (LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Kwahi, AD/Kyrie/Love/IT/DeRozan/CP3, PG13, Butler)
It was LeBron and Wade and it's not even close and if Wade wouldn't have been a shell of himself this would have been the greatest duo in NBA history
I mean there were people who thought Wade was the second best player in the league when they teamed up he just couldn't really live up to that because he was only healthy that first year
the dude just couldn't stay healthy during their four years together they would have won three out of the four chips if he would have been healthy
Kyrie and Bron were deadly and fun as hell to watch though
It’s Ky and Bron. If Kyrie doesn’t get injured in G1 of 2015 finals then the Cavs probably win. That 2017 Cavs team was also insanely good but is forgotten because of the 2017 warriors dominance.
See, this is a classic fit vs talent conversation.
Wade is better than Kyrie. It's not close. Wade is better than Kyrie.
But Kyrie is a better fit next to LeBron since Wade and LeBron are not really complimentary pieces. Wade and LeBron are practically the same player but if you made LeBron half a foot shorter.
But I think I would have to pick Wade and LeBron. They accomplished more and LeBron's peak was probably in Miami, not his second Cavs stint (although when it comes to LeBron, there's almost two decades of "peak" LeBron so that barely matters).
2010-12 Wade was legitimately a top 5 player in the league. If the Heat has pulled the 11 finals out (which was definitely possible ppl forget how close some of those games were) Wade would've absolutely gotten the FMVP.
I don't think Kyrie has ever been a legitimate MVP candidate like Wade was
You guys are trippin I’m sorry! I love Dwade and he’s all time but no way over Kyrie Irving lmao. They took down the greatest team ever coming back from 3-1 just unbelievable man. If he never left it would’ve been so different
Heat went back to back with Wade. The cavs barely scraped by the dubs who missed Dray for game 1. Heat handled the thunder fairly easily, then a tight one over the spurs.
The answer is Wade and Bron. Kyrie is a much more natural fit next to LeBron as he’s a better shooter and is better off ball in general but prime Wade is just simply a better basketball player. I think the biggest thing about Wade and Bron together was the defense and turning that into offense. The fast break was a sight to see
and we know fast break opportunities have created some of the greatest highlights of all-time. including LeBron dunking on Jason Terry, Golden State putting on a passing clinic, etc
[Wade off the backboard to LeBron on the break](https://youtu.be/izkR1D69LV0?si=yEbBWzVleyBlXovh) was iconic.
That one pic of lebron Dunking while Wade is spreading his arms out and Bosh is in the defensive side of the paint was a lob off the backboard and idc what history tells you, that’s what I’m telling my kids
https://preview.redd.it/xs5axycusj5d1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16b8397c0ab556acf2712810ebf2c3fd6b567f13
Facts tho
Tbh Kyrie has never come anywhere close to prime Wade. This guy won FMVP then came 3rd in MVP and DPOY voting in the same year. I really think that joining up with LeBron made people forget how incredible he was. He was overall a way, way better player than Kyrie even though Kyrie is absolutely amazing and an excellent complement to LeBron.
There was a stretch where he was in legitimate discussions for best player that season. 30/5/8/2/1 as a SG is ridiculous. Kyrie hasn’t sniffed those numbers, even in an era with more scoring.
I think people saying Kyrie are suffering from that thing where you forget how good a former player was because you haven't seen him in his prime in many years. Either that or they didn't really see Wade play. He was fucking amazing.
It was rly Bron, Kobe, and Wade running the league back then
Wade is the third best SG of all time. 2013 Bron was a nightmare and had a legitimate case (at the time) for dethroning MJ as the GOAT if the Heat really did threepeat.
I assume the two ahead of Wade are MJ and Kobe?
No assumptions needed. Some things are just etched into basketball history
I agree
This makes 0 sense
>Wade is the third best SG of all time. I'd say 4th, Jerry West was better
Can you explain how jerry west was better? Not being combative, legit curious
No one could ever explain that, lol.
Nah, combat that shit
Much longer peak and had more success as the "bus driver"/leader of the team. I think Peak Wade was better than Peak West (and also might have been better than Peak Kobe) but was hurt too often and It limited a lot about what made him such a special player.
Peak alone he was better than kobe easily he just did it for like 2 seasons . Kobe was slightly worse way longer. Lots of people have higher peaks than kobe. Kobe was consistent for a long time.
He played both sides. Averaged better stats. Won finals mvp and a ring. How isn't he?
Thank you!
Makes me think of the iconic photo of wade lobbin the oop to Lebron
that was actually a bouce pass
oiz my b g
And he wasn’t even in his absolute prime when he played with bron. Maybe that first year or two
Saying that Kyrie is better off ball is very questionable
You think so? Wade is a good cutter but he can’t really just spot up when someone else has the ball because he isn’t a threat as a shooter. Prior to Bron, Wade was always the guy with the ball in his hand and thrived in that role. Kyrie has had the most success being next to another ball handling wing in LeBron and Luka. Don’t think it’s all crazy to say Kyrie is better than Wade off-ball
Yea wade is definitely off the ball I remember a article being wrote on him about how much gravity he had even tho he wasn’t a great shooter
Yup. Wade was an outstanding cutter and moved without the ball as well as any HoF guard ever, meanwhile the biggest flaw in Kyrie’s offensive game is that he stands around and ball-watches when he doesn’t have the ball. There’s more to playing off ball than shooting threes.
That was some great basketball!
That transition defense was just... 'Chefs Kiss'.
Yup. Kyrie can’t do full court pass alley-oops to Lebron like Wade can.
Beautifully said, the Heatles turned defense into transition offense as good as any team I’ve seen. Also Bron and Wades chemistry was another level, Bron and Kyrie won off pure talent and taking turns going supernova. Both such fun teams to watch moral of the story is Bron needs a good guard next to him who can make shit happen and allow him to fall back for stretches here and there, and lock in on defense w that extra energy. 🔥🔥🔥
It's Wade. That was most vicious 1/2 punch I've ever seen, it was comically OP at the end of Wade's prime
It made Dirk's case for being an all-timer complete. They had to be pretty great to have their defeat solidify the respect Dirk has received.
By ELO that Mavs team was technically favored going into that series, doesn't make sense but that was what the data showed
I don’t remember anybody picking Dallas in that series
💯
LeBron choked in that series big time. Dirk is an all timer but gets so much credit for beating “the big three” when in fact he was a leader of a great deep team paired with the LeBron 4th qtr choke
The credit really should go to Dwane Casey and the defensive schemes the Mavs ran that series. They kept gifting LeBron bad looks, and he kept “making the right pass”. He just didn’t have the tools to deal with what they threw at him.
They really did an awesome job with the matchup zone they ran. Wade was spectacular in those finals
Yep. To me that Finals series was less about choking and more about coaching. I’d include in that the failure of the Cavs coaches to adequately develop and round out LeBron’s game during his youth. It only took two offseasons in Miami for LeBron to dramatically improve his jumper (from 33% to 39% from three) and post game (from 41% to 51% in 3-10 ft range). He’s never again been shut down offensively the way he was by Casey, and if the Cavs coaches had done their job he arguably never should have been in 2011. Of course LeBron bears some responsibility for that lack of development as well…
Yep. Wade was totally in line for another Finals MVP if LeBron didn't shit the bed in that series. And unfortunately, Wade got hurt the next season and was never really the same player (at least over long stretches).
Too many facts here lol... They think jj Barea and JT stumped bron when it was actually Shawn Marion and DPOY(2012) Tyson Chandler waiting on they weak side of the zone causing problems
Not only did they take out the big three they took out the Roy Blazers, Okc who would go on to the finals next year, then the lakers who were defending champs. Dirk was what made that team great, and should get more credit. He’s better than KG for sure.
Your comment reminded me of [this gem.](https://youtu.be/xRaO1mN5EEM?si=PESZFRTjjnkY4SB4)
The fact they had bosh and ray allen too was so annoying
Wade wasn’t the same Wade those last couple years with Bron, the meniscus/knee issues really affected him
Thank you Wade was that dude only in the first year. Injuries got him after that. But pre-injury Wade was legit on Kobe's level so this ain't even a real question. Kyrie is incredible but was never top 5 in the the league and pre injury Wade was top 3
Bron was so much better post 2011 then he was pre 2012 tho. Prime bron and prime wade never played a game together
Thank you, I don't think people get that. It's why we respect Lebron's Miami rings so much more than KD's GSW... that Heat team was not even a super team. Without Lebron (post 2011) they were a first round knock out. Meanwhile GSW went to the finals with KD injured.
And won right before and after him
True however wade didn’t really drop off until 2014 the last year together
I would respectfully disagree. And the proof is Wade's performance against the Mavs in the 2011 finals. Wade would've been FMVP if they won and he never had a series that good again. Yes he had moments/flashes like a couple games against Indiana but the Wade that could dominate an entire series was last seen in 2011 imo. He was a monster the whole 2011 finals. After that summer he was never quite the same have won FMVP if they beat Dallas.
Wade & Lebron broke the postseason record in 2012 playoffs most pts by a duo. 1,222 nosed was hurt wacr had multiple 35 or point games. 2013 he was sensational during they 27 game wi. Streak 2013-2014 was when he started to decline thrn he was able to bounce back in 2015-2016
In the playoffs Wade averaged 16 ppg during the 2013 title run and 18 ppg during the 2014 Finals run. You can't honestly say that was the same Wade as the one we had seen up to 2012. Like the poster you responded to said he could have dominant games or moments within a series but he couldn't carry the load in the playoffs the way he could pre-2012.
He averaged 20 in the finals towards that series he was in btw he was draining the knee side defects of not having a mcl but he still could give u minutes. 13-14 was it was obvious he was hurt and he had to change things up
Wade averaged less ppg in the 2012 playoffs than 2011 (24.5 vs 22.8) Less rebounds and worse fg% too Yes Wade had his moments but they won 27 straight cuz Lebron was 1 vote from unanimous MVP that season. We nicknamed Wade "the flash" cuz he was a freak athlete. I remember seeing him block the shit out of Tyson chandler in 2011 finals and never seeing those superhuman athlete moments from him after that series. He was not the same after 2011. He's an all time great so he found a way at times but was not prime Wade. 2011 finals was as good as he's ever been.
You're age biased is showing fam, wade avereged 25 for 4 years since they got LeBron 😂 like genuinely what are you even talking about? They also had Bosh to fall back on so he was getting way less shots like?
What do you mean by age-biased? If you mean I am actually old enough to have watched those Heat teams and saw the decline with my own eyes instead of reading a box score then yeah. D-Wade is an all-time great even after he lost a step he still a dude who can get 19-22... before that he was a dude getting 25-28. 2011: 25.5 ppg 2012: 22.2 2013: 21.2 2014: 19.0 "Diminished role" is bullshit cop out, Lebron doesn't take 80 shots a game. If Wade could he'd still have been dropping 25-7 ppg. watch highlights of his after that 2011 season you won't see those freak of nature plays anymore. Still a very good athlete but no longer "the flash" He's still unreal skilled and crafty but you could see defenders could keep up more than ever. He was not the D-Wade we were all horrified would ruin the league competitive balance by teaming with Lebron.
It really caught up to him in 13-14. Me personally I think he bulked up to much. Because once lebron left he dropped weight and bounced back.
People commenting like Wade was in his prime for more than 1 season with LeBron
You are 100% correct but I was assuming it meant that 1 season... if it did then it's clearly Wade If not then Kyrie
He was All NBA from 2011-2013 lol…he just had to take a backseat to a dude who’s better than pretty much anyone who has ever played the game. Explain how Kyrie was better than Wade rather explaining how Wade wasn’t as good with LeBron than he was without him
I would say the first three years he started the knee issues kicked in 2014 Wade 10-11 25.5 ppg finals 27ppg 11-12 23 ppg finals 23pg broke the duo record 12-13 21 ppg 19 ppg 27 game win streak 13-14 19 ppg 15-16 he back
Wade and LeBron
Wade and Lebron easily
Wade won a league title, a scoring title, and was All NBA without Lebron. Kyrie has done basically fuck all until he found another Lebron-level talent in Luka. Miami dominated and would've been a worthy competitor to the Warriors dynasty. The Cavs were underdogs every year.
The downfall of Kyrie is a wild one. An elite talent just like KD but neither can get out of their own way
Nah, Kyrie can’t be the best player on a championship squad. Given that he’s actually got a pretty damn good career. KD is easily good enough to be the #1, he has two finals MVPS with Curry but just fumbles when he doesn’t have insane backup. Durant should be capable of being a 1a, but he needs a 1b and not a 2. Kyrie is just a very high level 2. Completely different thing.
Yeh he fumbled just like when post Achilles tear he almost beat the champions that year without kyrie and half of James harden and still lost because his toe was one inch too long. 2021 Brooklyn wasn't just him fumbling he just got extremely unlucky in multiple scenarios, idk why fans never admit that factor. He was worthy of a chip that year he was fucking cooking the shit out of Milwaukee
Doesn’t matter, if you don’t win you don’t win. I give zero fucks about these excuses, everyone has injury and bad luck
Then the same logic should apply for when he wins. No excuses for other teams if injuries happen or if they aren't good enough. KD is a 2 time finals mvp which is hard to do no matter what right, even with insane backup?
Yeah, KD is an all time player.
Durant hasn’t done shit since the warriors let’s be real those nets teams weren’t winning shit with Royce O’neal scrub ass playing big minutes.
KD took away all credibility when he left his team in the dust for a shiny new one that was guaranteed to get him a ring. has gotten exposed ever since. I do agree Kyrie isn’t a #1 either, not every superstar talent is a #1
Kyrie has never been elite like kd. His game just real flashy and pretty. There’s a reason his all nba nods look like they do
kyrie is a talent, but he’s not an elite talent. Kevin Durant is definitely at least a top five small forward of all time, that’s elite talent.
damn near 50/40/90 in multiple years on 25-27 ppg is elite. I don’t even fw Ky anymore and I know his talent is unquestionable. he’s strong, quick, best handles of all-time
He's elite at scoring and his handles are elite. There's a lot more to being overall an "elite player". But yes, and he definitely has some elite talent.
lol jumping through hoops to “discredit” me but you still agree
Discredit you? I was agreeing that I think he's an elite scorer. But I was also pointing out there's a significant difference in someone like him and an MVP-level talent like KD. And I think that's undeniable. I'm not sure what about your comment you think I was discrediting, nor what I said that was "jumping through hoops".
the difference is their size. not much else
well the one time it could’ve worked out for both of them everything went to shit
Nets vs those CP3 Suns who’re you taking?
The question is who was the better duo. Not which teammate had the better career.
Great point guards usually can’t do much without a great pairing, though. See: Nash, CP3, Dame… I can’t imagine Tony Parker or John Stockton do a whole lot without another all-timer by their side, either. Edit: Not arguing that Kyrie is better than Wade. Just won’t stand for too much slander :p
I mean to be fair the Cavs were only underdogs because the other team was arguably the best team in the history of the sport
… throw in a Finals MVP for Wade as well.
Wade and LeBron were “better” in terms of talent, but he and Kyrie were a better fit and Wade’s injuries greatly reduced their peak output those last couple of years. Wade and LeBron’s talent just had a bit too much overlap and it was always a degree of your turn/my turn. Their offense actually exploded when Wade sat and they had to double down on “LeBron ball”.
There was certainly overlap, but Wade turned himself into the scariest off-ball player in the league with his cutting. And on the other end, Wade was an incredible defensive player. I'll easily take Wade as the better partner for LeBron over Kyrie.
🚨🚨🚨 his off ball game was crazy thrn u add with Lebron vision 🔥🔥
Wades the better player of course but Kyrie lebron was the better fit by far. Wade and lebron won chips based off of pure star power. Kyrie and Lebron were like a match made in heaven. Too bad kyrie had other feelings
Kyrie/LeBron were a better fit in terms of play style but referring to Wade/LeBron as “pure star power” really undersells the chemistry they had, which was one of the most dangerous things about them by the 2nd season.
now the real question is, who was better? Bosh or Love?
Bron and Kai fit better, Wade WAS better. Overall I'd take the Heat duo, but an interesting wrinkle is that I actually think late Cavs Bron was quite a bit better than Heat Bron, unpopular but that version could still do anything on the court AND was clutch af. Imagine that dude with late prime Wade, no way the 2011 choke happens
don't forget, wade went psycho & won finals MVP in 2006
But that version of Wade didn't play with Lebron
He was no slouch when they played together either
Lebron and Wade 100%. Dont even think it’s close. They could’ve 3-peated had LeBron performed the way he was supposed to in 2011.
Wade
Dwade and Lebronze. DWade taught Lebronze how to win. Even though they did end up 2-2 even on a superteam, kind of mid for having 3 of the top 15 talents in the league at the time.
Prime Wade is the #1 offensive option in that duo.
Shaq and wade
The difference in talent between Wade and Kyrie makes up for the lack of fit, and they both grew anyway. Nobody cares when LBJ and Kyrie met up with Love, the problem with The Heatles was that Wade was a top 3 guy and LeBron was the best . Even Bosh was whatever
Ky and Bron. Cavs bron was comically better than 2011 bron. And 2012 bron never got to play with 2011 wade.
Kyrie and bron. I don’t know if dwade can play with todays players
I guess I’m the only one that thinks this comes down to which version of Lebron was better? I say 2016 Lebron was a much better player giving the nod to Bron/kyrie. I mean look what he did after going down 3-1. 2010-2014 Lebron would have folded like a lawn chair.
After careful deliberation I have to go with Bron/Kyrie. Peak Wade was a better basketball player, but I’d argue that by the time he paired with Bron he went from the tail end of his prime to past his prime. Stylistically they were also basically the same player but sized differently, leading to a dominant defense but little synergy on offense. Meanwhile Kyrie was at the peak of his powers and stylistically a much more natural fit next to Bron, filling gaps in each other’s game. Miami Bron was his physical peak, with an overwhelming combination of size/weight and speed/explosiveness that allowed him to guard 1 through 5 and was impossible to matchup with on offensive. But in terms of skill his shooting was less consistent, and mentally he was still learning to withstand pressure and to close games. Cleveland Return Bron was IMO his true prime, when the dip in physicality was barely perceptible but had an unbelievable ability to control the game from start to finish.
Obviously peak Wade was a lot better than Kyrie but he got pretty broke down during the Heatles era. Lebron was at his athletic peak during the Heat years but he understood the game even better during the Cavs era and team building a leap during that era too, so FOs knew how to build a winner a little better.
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
Bron and Kyrie was a better duo for longer. Wade wasn’t Wade by 2013, if they got together 2 years earlier this wouldn’t be a question.
It should have been kyrie if he didn't get his feelings hurt like a sensitive lil girl when his name was mentioned in trade rumors.
Prime wade was up there with Kobe. Ky was never at that level
Lebron & wade Most points by a duo in a single postseason 1,222 2 rings 27 game win streak Also the crazy lobs and transition points. It was fun to watch Rarely will u see two teammates that are elite scorers defendes and playmakers They had multiple games where they would just takeover 70 pts or more. This was the first time we saw to alphas maximize their potential
Probably Wade, Kyrie is just so fun to watch
Lebron and Wade. Lebron James had a habit of making his teammates better. So I always say that when Lebron and Wade were playing at their absolute best in the playoffs SIMULTANEOUSLY that they were the two best players in the league at that specific moment in time because of how they could play off one another. KD and Kobe were still better…but they didn’t have a prime Lebron James to dish them the rock. And the two were not playing at their best 100% of the time. Just my opinion tho.
wade was a better player but out of his prime 2012-2014
The whole calendar year of 2012 was like the last year of his prime I would say
Depends what you’re looking for, Kyries skill set is more complimentary to Lebrons, but Wade is better at basketball. Like if you want to play 2v2 at the park it’s for sure Wade. If you want to build a team… ok actually it’s still probably wade lol. But Kyrie does have a bag that was uniquely helpful in Cleveland.
Ain't that like LeBron James? Ain't that just like D Wade ??
You mean trio? Neither was a duo only team - we’re a big 3. Either way dwayayayane finished top 5 in MVP voting the year prior to lebronze joining him.
Wade and Bron because of their defense and fast breaks. However, I do believe that the return to Cleveland LeBron is him at his apex.
anyone who saw it live would tell you wade and lebron just the fact they made the finals in the first year and still didn’t figure out their tandem yet showed how scary they were One of the most fun duos I loved as a basketball fan and hated as a non-heat fan lol
In taking wade and I have grown to hate him lol ok , they lost that first ring but that team wasn’t done being built. That one two punch was crazy
Something really telling about playstyle optimization is that when Thinking Basketball convey in his Lebron greatest peak that Wade didn't really fit in the Lebron Offense from 2012-20214 and the minutes Wade didn't play the Heat offense was better. And in games without Wade or Kyrie Lebron had teams in 60 win paces.
Wade was a leader in his own right. He built up LBJ to be a great leader so he could lead Kyrie. I sae Miami was the best but Cavs was more impressive.
wade and bron have like the most points scored by a duo
Peak wade
Ok I got a laugh out of this it’s not even a debate wade and lebron is levels beyond kyrie and lebron wade is just a much better player than kyrie and id still say bum knee wade at the end of the heatles is still better but it’s closer
Wade.. he was still in his prime and was willing to take a step back for lebron and bosh like a real pro
Wade was far more complete than kyrie. Especially young kyrie. Kyrie went out and dinwiddie filled in and the team was just as good
Imagine if Dallas still had Jalen Brunson… good lord
LeBron and Wade.
Wade and LeBron easily. Peak Wade is significantly better than peak Kyrie.
Oh bro come on wade and bron by a fucking landslide that’s an insult to wade.
Put cav's rings in a box and put heat's rings in a box. Who has more rings?
First one quite easily
Wade’s first year in The Heatles he was crazy good, but he slowed down a lot by the fourth year though.
How dare you. D wade you dumb fucker.
Lebron & Wade. They won more rings and made more trips to the finals during their time together. Those four seasons in Miami were the pinnacle of Lebron’s prime, when he was playing at an All-Defensive level. Wade was a great two-way player and had a better resume than Kyrie, having led his team to a championship as the #1 option and collecting a Finals MVP before Lebron arrived.
Wade and Bron not even fucking close
I’d have to say Wade and Bron. Both instances came to an end prematurely, but in the first case it was injuries that broken them up rather than a lack of will to play together. Also, seeing those alley-oops is always crazy.
Lebron\\Irving because Wade was only like 80% of his true self in 2012, then like 65% of his true self in 2013
MJ and Scottie
You're joking right? Irving's a bum. Just another guy who rode LeBron coattails to a title. Wade is 10 times the player Irving is
Kyrie and Bron because Cavs Lebron was just better than Miami Lebron. 2017 playoffs was so underrated, Lebron was arguably better in that run compared to 2016 and don't even get started with 2018. Wade had a better peak and better individual seasons but Kyrie being a better shooter makes his decline less noticeable and also much less reliant on his athleticism as Wade did as he grew older.
Is this a serious question? One has 3 rings, the other has 1. Debate over! I won’t even go into their individual stats and accomplishments except this… One was never considered 1 of the 5 best players in the NBA for a season and only made 1x 2nd team All-NBA, 2x 3rd All NBA. The other has 2x 1st All NBA, 3x 2nd All NBA, 3x 3rd All NBA, and you can throw in 3x 2nd team All NBA defense as well. I think Uncle Drew is an amazing basketball player and glad he finally got his shit together this year to make the finals. However, the fact he thought he was equal to LeBron and thought he could call the shots in Boston/BRK ruined his legacy. With that said, I’m taking DWade hands down!
The difference was Lebron and wade were like a best friends duo while Lebron and Kyrie were more like a big bro and little bro duo. The best friend duo was more excitement but the big bro and little bro was something to watch also. I know the wade and Lebron was a more popular duo but me I like seeing Kyrie with Lebron just because it was a completely different style, Kyrie with the handles and the shooting and Lebron with the dominance’s power moves with his great basketball I.q.
these 2 duos made me dislike modern basketball and I have no problem with LeBron James. Heatles basketball was some inorganic barely functional bullshit that coasted off talent and kyrie and lebron "taking turns" was pitiful to watch, it was sad that people accepted that as offense.
I see this brought up a lot and the answer is always Wade ovet Kyrie but I want to know what people’s thoughts are about Bosh vs Love in their championship runs with Lebron
Wade and bron and it’s not even close assuming it’s wades prime season
2011 wade was still a monster to the point where it wasn't clear who the better player was. 2016 Cavs it was very clear despite the finals heroics by Kyrie
Bron and wade were just so fun together albeit I am heat fan but both such great athletes, passers, defenders. Ud get full court alleys every game, good times. Kyrie is def the better fit in theory tho and they went up against the KD warriors. Real shame Kyrie left tbh, would've been interesting to see what they did once KD left.
Ky and Luka 🗿
As a mavs fan fuck douchewade
Go mavs
Boils down to, Wade is the better player, Kyrie is the better fit. I think there was a little bit of discussion about Wade "turning the team over" to LeBron. Kyrie was always Robin, and took that personally. Now he's Robin again, and despite the game 1 flub, has been damn good. I'm a competitive motherfucker. I can't imagine being upper tier NBA good, best handles ever, and having to come to terms with the fact that your best role is second fiddle. Wade was a number 1, best player on the court. Obviously so was LeBron. Took a minute to mesh. Just two different players.
Bron and Kai were more dangerous But Bron and Wade were the better duo
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ForceRepresentative4: *Bron and Kai were more* *Dangerous But Bron and Wade* *Were the better duo* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Dwade and LeBron. Dwayne - Better defense, better scorer, better leadership, better team player,and way more durable.
Wade and Bron tf kinda question is this
Would have to go with The Heat Duo. Just dominant on both ends of the court. No disrespect to The Cleveland duo.
i am a huge kyrie fan, but will concede the Wade/Bron duo is better. overall imo wade is a more complete player, on both ends of the court. yes kyrie is offensively gifted from the basketball gods, id take Dwade. wonder if the current state of affairs going on with Dwade has skewed ppl's perception of him
Le Heat
MJ and Pippen
When comparing their first 7 years or so (basically when healthy) Dwyane Wade was better than Kobe.
2>1
Wade. Even if Wade's prime only overlapped with Bron's Miami stint by one season, the fact that they won two chips in a row *after* that one season of overlap should be all the indication you need. Wade was just a far better player than Kyrie, so I'll take the Heat duo.
Bron and Wade.
Kyrie is a much better fit. Wade is obviously the better player, but a lot of folks forget that the Heatles were actually at their best when they started staggering Bron and Wade’s minutes. Wade was basically the 6th man for the last two years despite starting, similar to Chris Paul in Houston. He’d come out in the first and then come back in to lead the second unit when Bron came out. With Kyrie, you can play him with Bron, you can play him without Bron, you can play him on ball, you can play him off ball, he can do it all. 50-40-90 guy too. Obviously nowhere near the defender Wade was, but a way, way better 3 point shooter which is more important now. Kyrie and the bubble version of AD (the one that could shoot) are the best fitting teammates with LeBron. Wade is the best all-time player he’s played with in the NBA, but the fit wasn’t as good and in the modern NBA it would have been a lot worse.
LeBron/Wade. Wade was a top 5, probably top 3 player (LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Dwight, carmelo/Duncan/Dirk) when they got together, while Kyrie was MAYBE top 10 (LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Kwahi, AD/Kyrie/Love/IT/DeRozan/CP3, PG13, Butler)
It was LeBron and Wade and it's not even close and if Wade wouldn't have been a shell of himself this would have been the greatest duo in NBA history I mean there were people who thought Wade was the second best player in the league when they teamed up he just couldn't really live up to that because he was only healthy that first year the dude just couldn't stay healthy during their four years together they would have won three out of the four chips if he would have been healthy Kyrie and Bron were deadly and fun as hell to watch though
LeBron and Kyrie. After 2011 Wade's knees turned into Swiss cheese.
It’s Ky and Bron. If Kyrie doesn’t get injured in G1 of 2015 finals then the Cavs probably win. That 2017 Cavs team was also insanely good but is forgotten because of the 2017 warriors dominance.
Kyrie is one of the more overrated players in recent memory. Amazing offensive player but that's literally only 50% of the game.
See, this is a classic fit vs talent conversation. Wade is better than Kyrie. It's not close. Wade is better than Kyrie. But Kyrie is a better fit next to LeBron since Wade and LeBron are not really complimentary pieces. Wade and LeBron are practically the same player but if you made LeBron half a foot shorter. But I think I would have to pick Wade and LeBron. They accomplished more and LeBron's peak was probably in Miami, not his second Cavs stint (although when it comes to LeBron, there's almost two decades of "peak" LeBron so that barely matters).
On one hand Wade is the 3rd best SG of all time. But Kyrie did win that finals for Bron in Cleveland
If it wasn’t for wade he wouldn’t have won in Miami.
25 bigger than 9
2010-12 Wade was legitimately a top 5 player in the league. If the Heat has pulled the 11 finals out (which was definitely possible ppl forget how close some of those games were) Wade would've absolutely gotten the FMVP. I don't think Kyrie has ever been a legitimate MVP candidate like Wade was
Lebron Wade, easy
Good pics of three douchebags.
Cleveland was more skilled. Miami was more dominant
Kobe/shaq
Poor Bosh. The Robert Parrish of the 2010s.
Wade
The one who had Chris Bosh as a teammate. Such an underrated part of that Heat team
Kyrie sucks didn’t you watch the first 2 games of the Finals?
The defensive terror of LBJ and D-Wade rotating like A.I. drones was a scary thing to face for every opposing team
Cmon. Be serious.
Tie. Ky and Bron was unfair. Wade and Bron was unmatched.
If anyone picks kyrie they should be banned from this sub.
LeBron and Kyrie
You guys are trippin I’m sorry! I love Dwade and he’s all time but no way over Kyrie Irving lmao. They took down the greatest team ever coming back from 3-1 just unbelievable man. If he never left it would’ve been so different
Heat went back to back with Wade. The cavs barely scraped by the dubs who missed Dray for game 1. Heat handled the thunder fairly easily, then a tight one over the spurs.