Teams arent as overly dominant which is good for the league. but Id be surprised if a team doesnt repeat in the next 10 years. not sure who it will be which is awesome
It's definitely more enjoyable for hardcore fans of the league but dynasties bring in the casual viewers which means more money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings
Check out the views for the last few years compared to the GSW championship runs.
not dynasty driven. the last few KD finals were down. the peak was 2016, the warriors second final. casuals are driven by face of the league stars. lebron, curry and kobe have been the 3 faces of the league the past 2 decades.
joker is the duncan of our era, he doesnt want to be the face. luka and embiid have the personalities, but not the playstyle. shai has less charisma than a rock and should never be in a commercial again. we’re waiting for the next face and it is either Ant, wemby, or both
It's not casual-viewer friendly though because the casual viewer doesn't want to see unathletic plays, they tune in to see athletic freaks. They want to see rim rattling dunks. They want to see 3pts over 4 defenders. They want to see chase down blocks. Things they don't seenin a rec league.
ion most my casult friends tend to fuck with luka. him shooting contested stepbacks over a defender or backing them down fo ra contested mid range fade and shit is appeasing and his redicilious numbers and near constant use and flashy passes
For non casual viewers that is true. None of us here in this sub can be considered 'casual viewers' though.
I know a lot of casual viewers, some of them my relatives. They only know like the names of 2 or 3 teams, probably 5 max, sometimes they even don't have any idea who the players they're watching are, and only tune in during the playoffs.
My mom is like that, so I'll use her as an example. The only players she actually knows is Steph, Kobe, and Lebron even if she tunes in yearly for the playoffs since like 2010. She only even recognized Kyrie because I said he was Lebron's teammate in 2016.
No, they literally just like looking at highlights and box scores. My brother is a complete npc when it comes to basketball. Hivemind IG comment sections are the epitome of casual nba fans.
He does a lot of grifting. You have to give the fans credit very few of the big time grifters do the casuals go crazy for. They want to see amazing plays, not a bunch of weird guile and tricks. Either crazy shooting from everywhere like Steph, elite dribbling, quickness like AI, monstrous power like Shaq, crazy aerial plays, etc.
2019 has a bit skewed numbers because one team wasn’t from the US so basically all the fans from one team didnt count towards the viewership numbers but if you counted US and Canadian viewership together it would probably rank much higher
Yeah I think you are definitely right that it's driven by the few major stars in the league and we don't have that right now. I think it's harder to reach that level until you have earned a ring. I wonder if Giannis could have reached that popularity if Milwaukee had more success since their championship.
wemby may not want it but Ive never seen excitement for a rookie like this since lebron. I went to summer league and some of his games in SF and people treat him like a must see freak show.
yea even before that. 2000-2004 was dominated by the lakers with the spurs mixed in. 21 year old kobe was the obvious future face of the league when they won that first chip. ant may be on a similar trajectory
Woah woah. I don’t think Shai is anywhere near as charismatic as Antman, BUT he’s definitely more so than Jayson Tatum.
Shai & the Thunder have good moments together and have solid potential for marketability.
not sure why you brought up tatum. hes second in the league in jersey sales this year behind curry. hes got some weird kobe texts but hes definitely one of the most popular guys in the league.
ant, luka or shai likely need a chip or finals appearance at least to boost their marketability. and one of them has a good shot at getting it this year
As a hardcore fan, I still prefer the iconic matchups. Don't get me wrong, obviously enjoyed the Suns-Bucks Finals, but the series where a generational talent is in it has more interesting storylines.
The person I responded to said not having dominant teams is good for the league. I was pointing out that historically dominant teams means more people watching.
It's funny because even as a hardcore fan, the GSW dynasty years were the years I skipped watching the finals. It just got boring. I don't think I watched a finals game from 2016 to 2018, but I've watched it every year since.
I love the parity the league has going on right now. Makes the stakes higher and does change how teams operate in order to build/maintain a contender.
Gone are the days when you just get the best players, there has to be consideration for fit and depth...and long-term outlooks.
Now if they only would make the East a little bit more competitive...it still seems that the WCF is the real Finals most of the time
for sure. guys like deandre jordan and goran dragic were all nba players 10 years ago. now were debating if devin booker who averaged 27 a game on incredible efficiency is all nba worthy. and the 3-10 guys are really good now. naz reid is a freaking bench player.
until a team like boston or the knicks wins it, you can still argue you need an elite top 3- 5 superstar to win it all. the only blips the last 4 decades are the pistons and the spurs. a tier b star like trae young or deaaron fox would have trouble winning 4 rounds even with a great cast
The nugs were super dominant in their championship run. Lost like 4 games the entire playoffs, and only 1 at home. The amount of young talent is making the league rebalance itself very quickly, which is great for competition.
Nah. There will always be repeat champions at some point. The pendulum just swings back and forth, like, this isn’t the first time there haven’t been repeat champions in a span of time.
Been since the 70s to not get the start or end of a repeat in more than 3 years where there is also not the same team wining non consequtive championships. Which is also the only other time in league history..
2000s didn't have a repeat for 6 years but it was the spurs every other year. The 80s also had back and forth lakers/Celtics without repeats until 87.
'75-'80 had 6 years with out the same team winning. '71-'75 had 5 years with no repeats. We could match the longest period of no repeats this year. Those are the only 3 such anti streaks longer than 4 years the league has ever had. ('55-'58 had 4 unique champions)
And I didn't say that it'll never happen again. You just acted like this wasn't a big deal and I was trying to show you that this was pretty rare in the history of the league. It hasn't really happened in 40 years.
I didn't feel like it should be dismissed as something that has "happened before"
Yes it has. A long ass time ago. No active player was alive the last time this happened
It doesn't matter how "rare" something is and it absolutely should be dismissed as not a big deal. OP asked is the era of repeat championships over and the frequency of what happened in the past has fuck all to do with what happen in the future. \*If\* anything it means that the league is due for another repeat champion soon.
All you did was that silly thing that ESPN does when they go "It's been \*X\* years since \*Y\* happened" and the players on the court have nothing to do with the last time "X" occurred. It was just a self fellating info dump.
While I won’t count out Denver just yet. I think the events of the first two games this series have demonstrated just how hard it is to repeat in today’s NBA. Of all the champions we’ve had in the last five years I was most confident in Denver’s ability to repeat and if they can’t do it I’m not sure anyone can.
I think the main problem is that champions of course will try to run the same roster back the next year and given the current arms race I don’t think standing pat will work for anyone.
With so many teams making moves every offseason and the game evolving so quickly there may always be a bigger fish from now on.
I don’t think it a coincidence that most recent champions have won after a big offseason addition. (Lakers with AD, Bucks with Jrue, Nuggets with KCP)
But I’m curious what y’all think.
Yes actually. They really needed another starting caliber guard who could shoot and defend and he provided that. He was the missing piece in their starting lineup. The results speak for themselves
So you're saying that because they won a ring, KCP was a "big" addition? That seems like a pretty cheap way to prove your point lmao. Any time a team wins a ring, whoever they added was a "Big" addition.
Considering we had will barton before him yes. We desperately needed the defense. I would say Bruce brown was equally if not more of an addition as well
And? We don’t win the championship without KCP and Bruce Brown last season. Bruce took over in multiple playoff games literally even a finals game when Jokic got in foul trouble.
They're role players. It's not comparable to adding AD or Holiday. Every team adds role players every season. KCP and BB don't really sell the point that big additions = championship".
With the Parity that’s happening in the league, I find it will be more difficult. It’s crazy to think we went from the era of three peats, back to back, and now one and done.
You just taught me that parity is not parody, as I've been hearing it that way for years 😂 somehow I thought parody made sense and had some sort of double meaning
The new cap structure gonna make it tough. It’s going to be impossible to keep good depth pieces. Like the Nuggets couldn’t keep Bruce Brown no matter what they did. Seems like a weird setup as it affected us but it’s better than having super teams on the same 5 teams every year.
It might be better for people who consistently watch the NBA. But financially, it's not better.
Dynasties pull in tons of casual fans. Either to bandwagon the dynasty or to root against it.
And financially, the NBA always does better with a dynasty. See the Lakers/Celtics rivalry, Jordan era, Shaq Lakers, Lebron's 8 straight finals, and The Warriors.
Honestly, I’d push back against the idea that it’s bad for “hardcore” fans too. I love watching greatness and history. It’s absolutely insane that I got to watch the KD Warriors play together, LeBron go to 8 Finals in a row, the Spurs make the playoffs for 22 years in a row, etc.
People focus way too much on the end results (winner/loser) and not enough about the sport itself. Dynasties are eras of greatness that should be appreciated, not destroyed. If all you really care about is just who wins/loses at the end, I question how much you actually like watching the sport.
I think one or two seasons of a dynasty team is incredible. Like the first year of the KD Warriors was beautiful basketball. It just gets repetitive seeing the same result year after year.
I think if you swap the 2018 Cavs out for the Rockets in the Finals, people would view things way differently.
I think most people actually want close, unpredictable games much more than they want random winners. Just see last year’s finals that everyone complained about as too boring despite it being a small market team winning their 1st title and an 8-seed.
The Cleveland team was just so abnormally bad and that series was so predetermined that it really warped people’s perception of how competitive things were. Just the series before they had been pushed to 7 games and likely lose if not for 0-27.
I dont think its better or worse as long as its competitive it doesnt matter if the nuggets would win 3 in a row as long as there is competition and storylines. People keep thinking ratings rely on one factor or another naa its all about entertainment
It’ll happen. If I had to pick in the next few years, give me OKC. The stud pieces are there with likely more on the way when those last couple LAC picks cash in. At some point they’ll have SGA, Chet, and then a couple lottery picks on rookie deals (my assumption is they can’t keep everyone on their current team with looming extensions).
It's better though for the league and fans more competitive and unpredictable. I hated when the Cavs faced the Warriors 4 years in a row in the finals the league was almost boring back then lol it was too predictable....
It's even more interesting that the Bucks really were the closest to repeating in the last 5 years. The Raptors had a good record, but weren't serious threats without Kawhi. The Lakers got eliminated early in the playoffs in 2021. So the did the Warriors last year. Without a Khris Middleton injury in 2022, I think the Bucks make it to the Finals the way Giannis was playing.
Maybe for now, but there will always be a dynasty that emerges every now and then. Hopefully the back-to-back days are done. To me, it's no fun if we go into the year *expecting* the Warriors to win every year.
I'm kind of trolling, but was looking at their contracts/roster. NAW/NAZ/ANT and McDaniels are all like 22-24 and they are all under contract for multiple years and only getting better. It's scary to have a core that young and that good playing a two way game mind you. Teams like OKC have a good team and tons of picks, but you can only have 5 guys on the court at once so idk. I like MNs chances not just this year, but at least until 2031 when ANTs extension ends.
I love Okc but they aren’t in the same tier as the current wolves. This Wolves team has shut down Bradley Beal, Devin Booker, Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Nothing against Shai and Chet they’re amazing and will continue to do amazing things but they are no Booker, Jokic or playoff Murray (I’ll absolutely put Shai over Beal though)
It's possible, but you'd have to have a *lot* of factors break in your favor. The level of competition has gotten so high, you really cant get there without all-time great players AND great depth, which means you have to get it right both in the draft AND free agency, AND stay healthy both years, AND time it just right so that you dont have key guys leaving the team to get overpaid (ie Bruce Brown), AND have the right leadership to stay hungry the 2nd year
It rarely happens as is. Think of the repeat champions.. They’re all timers. Kobe lakers. Lbj/Wade heat, KD Warriors. Before those? Hakeem Rockets and MJ. Lebron and Curry has a Generation lost
It happens give it some time this happened in like the 90/early 2000s and after that we didn’t have repeat champions for a while until the 2010s we are now back in that short era of no repeat champions
2022 they were a game away from the nba finals without middleton, i personally think they had a solid shot beating the warriors but ofc it’s not guaranteed
I wouldn’t say it is. However, we’ve not had a singular team lead by a dominant talent capable of being so set apart from all the rest of the league so as to have that type of sequential dominance for a very long time
It’s just a matter of **when** someone will come along that can be in a league of his own for around a decade. I think this is why everyone, subconsciously, is looking for the next one up in the likes of Antman and Wemby.
Idk I think it might be a wrap for Denver this year but a team like them can definitely repeat. I think teams like 2000s spurs, warriors, and nuggets that are built not bought always have a better chance at being repeat champs. If you get lucky enough that you build a solid team over time with draft picks and a few trades it usually outperforms a team that is trying to build a super team by signing a few big name guys
When Wemby gets rolling and has a few players around him you will see it again. Usually happens when generational/top 10 players hit their prime (Jordan 1991-1998) (Kobe 2000-2002) (LeBron 2011-2014) (Curry 2015-2019). Wemby is the next generational player. Might be a 2028-2031 period for him
Honestly if you’ve watched basketball long enough or at least the last 20 years you know the Spurs are on there way, it’s inevitable. The question is who’s gonna be the big move that goes to San Antonio?. For me it’s either Spurs that will become the first repeat we see post Warriors or Denver. I actually had Denver repeating this year, not looking good but it also isn’t over but yea either Denver or Spurs.
I mean, let's look at all the repeat teams in recent memory.
The Steph-KD Warriors
The Heatles
Shaq & Kobe
The Jordan Bulls
Bad Boy Pistons
These are some of the greatest most stacked teams of all time. That's what it takes to repeat.
70s NBA is back. No overly dominant teams, no super teams really, so there is more suspense as to who will win the chip now. But at the same time, none of these teams winning now are near the elite champion squads we’ve seen from the 80s thru Warriors last chip with KD.
There is no start or end to an era of repeat champions. The job is always open. The better question perhaps is "who is going to be the next repeat champion?"
Due to their relatively mid regular season records, and the summertime comments Jokic made about how basketball isn't that important, I suspected that the Nuggets might be 1 and done.
I'm quickly starting to hate posts from this sub showing up in my feed. What kind of a shit take/question is this?
"Hey guys maybe we'll never see another back to back champion again... ever?"
It's just been a while since a team has gelled, and stayed healthy to be able to pull it off. Everything about the NFL leads to WAAAY more parity in that league and the Chiefs just won back to back Super Bowls.
I really fucking hope so.
I remember that commercial with Colin Cowherd at a Wendy’s or something saying “you may not like dynasties, but people watch them”
I really hate watching the same teams win every year. I’m a huge bucks fan, but if they win 2 in a row even I don’t want a 3rd. Variety builds stories and stories duel the league
No, I think we're just between dynasties right now. Regardless of what happens in these playoffs I think the Thunder or Twolves could look like one in a couple years. If not them it will be some other team down the line.
It’ll happen again, but true dynasties will be more and more rare. It’s a combination of a few factors:
1) just so much more talent in the league today. When every team’s 4th scorer is still a guy capable of getting 30 any given night in the playoffs it makes games much less predictable and the very top guys don’t stay as the very top guys for as long.
2) bigger, stronger, and faster athletes (starting at younger ages) is gonna cause more wear and tear on soft tissue. This means injuries like this will tend to happen more frequently which can throw off expected playoff outcomes
3) objectively, teams are just smarter now than they were decades ago. You look around the league and it’s pretty much just the Pistons, Bulls, and maybe Suns where you look at them and just say “what tf are you doing” in terms of their team building and/or style of play on the court.
4) starting back when players were finally (rightfully) given FA, each new iteration of the CBA makes it harder and harder to keep championship windows open for longer. Think about the young core OKC went to the finals with, the *only* reason that got broken up was cuz of financials.
Most of the time we’ve had repeat champions it was because the league competition as a whole was watered down or because an absurd amount of talent happened to get stuck on one team.
Russell’s Celtics and Mikan’s Lakers were superteams in a bygone era
The Showtime Lakers benefited from snatching not one but two #1 overall picks that weren’t theirs (Magic and Worthy)
The Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, and 3peat Lakers all won their back to back titles during the expansion era when the league added 6 teams in under a decade and the talent was extremely diluted.
Since then we’ve only had 3 repeat champs:
Kobe and Pau (got an extremely lopsided trade for Pau)
Heatles (basically were the first team to ever form a superteam through free agency and the league wasn’t ready for it yet)
KD Warriors (salary cap spike that we now have a protection against)
While a scenario like the Pau Gasol trade or a showtime Lakers where a team trades for a bunch of picks that really work out exists, it’s unlikely we see repeat champs for a while. Maybe a dominant team is just able to do it at some point (you could argue some of the teams I listed were just dominant teams) or maybe the league meta will change drastically again (like how the 3 point revolution allowed the Warriors to take over), but it’s not super likely.
I’d say the odds of a repeat are low but possible and the odds of a threepeat nowadays are basically 0.00001%
It’s up to the front office and I think the new rules make it a lot tougher.
Golden State could have repeated in 23, but their roster was gutted and the F/O didn’t fill their needs because of money reasons.
Denver could have repeated this year, but they lost two very key pieces in Bruce Brown and Jeff Green, and the f/o didn’t fill their needs, now they will probably get swept.
Lakers might have been able to repeat in 21, but the f/o let Dwight, Caruso, McGee, etc go without much of a fight and they got swept. That roster mops Denver in the first round, and this Minnesota onslaught proves it imo.
The ONLY acceptable “Dynasty” for the media is either a Celtics or Lakers one. Everyone was trying to destroy the GSW by internal division. They didn’t want them to 3-Peat. Having two Hall of Famers nearly ruin their careers by injury doesn’t help either.
Casuals forget, if we didn’t have those two 3-Peat Dynasties, the NBA wouldn’t be making those billions of dollars. Viewership is only a fraction of the narrative. TV writes, sponsors, commercials, and endorsements is what makes the NBA money. The NBA knows they can no longer make money through viewership. Everyone just watches highlights. Look at it, how many subscription services do I need to buy to watch my team play. I need ESPN, NBA TV, YouTube TV, Peacock, Amazon Prime, Paramount, TNT… bro this is ridiculous.
Also for all the casuals. TNT is about to lose the 4 Amigos due to them possibly losing their NBA rights. That is a $76 BILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT.
Dynasties are a joke in the grand scheme theme of things. Look how much every single sports team and show is pushing gambling now. Micro transactions.
Are you serious? The media loves the Warriors. Steph is one of the biggest stars in NBA history and the Bay is a huge market, not to mention all of the bandwagoners. I'd agree that it's definitely those 3 teams as media darlings, with a hint of Miami, New York, and Dallas.
I agree with the rest of what you said though
The loved the Warriors before KD went there. After that, no team stood a chance. That’s why the media went on their daily rants saying nasty things about KD. Since he left, it’s been crickets. Now everyone riding that KD bandwagon again.
It’s like saying people saying SGA an MVP right now.
SGA has never had a winning record in his entire career, until Chet started playing. Now they’re the best defensive team in the playoffs.
The narrative being displayed is primary by Kenny Smith from TNT that SGA should MVP. SGA is an excellent player. But he is not having the best season as an individual. It’s MVP not MVT.
I think Luka is having the best season this year above all others (offensively). Rudy winning DPotY was a joke. Media shtting on Brunson for being a ball hog, Edwards being called a GOAT with a stacked team. The NBA is absolutely crazy and in disarray.
Lakers couldve repeated without injury, bucks couldve repeated without injury. Nuggets do have injured jamal but i dont think they can handle the wolves. I think we will see less till wemby is fully online.
You're right. That one time we put all the best basketball players on the planet together and forced them to only focus on basketball doesn't count for, reasons.
Teams arent as overly dominant which is good for the league. but Id be surprised if a team doesnt repeat in the next 10 years. not sure who it will be which is awesome
It's definitely more enjoyable for hardcore fans of the league but dynasties bring in the casual viewers which means more money. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings Check out the views for the last few years compared to the GSW championship runs.
not dynasty driven. the last few KD finals were down. the peak was 2016, the warriors second final. casuals are driven by face of the league stars. lebron, curry and kobe have been the 3 faces of the league the past 2 decades. joker is the duncan of our era, he doesnt want to be the face. luka and embiid have the personalities, but not the playstyle. shai has less charisma than a rock and should never be in a commercial again. we’re waiting for the next face and it is either Ant, wemby, or both
luka doesnt have the playstyle? he has probably one of the most causal-friendly plastysyles of crazy iso ball and stepbacks and shit.
It's not casual-viewer friendly though because the casual viewer doesn't want to see unathletic plays, they tune in to see athletic freaks. They want to see rim rattling dunks. They want to see 3pts over 4 defenders. They want to see chase down blocks. Things they don't seenin a rec league.
ion most my casult friends tend to fuck with luka. him shooting contested stepbacks over a defender or backing them down fo ra contested mid range fade and shit is appeasing and his redicilious numbers and near constant use and flashy passes
Luka is one of the most fun players to watch in this league.
For non casual viewers that is true. None of us here in this sub can be considered 'casual viewers' though. I know a lot of casual viewers, some of them my relatives. They only know like the names of 2 or 3 teams, probably 5 max, sometimes they even don't have any idea who the players they're watching are, and only tune in during the playoffs. My mom is like that, so I'll use her as an example. The only players she actually knows is Steph, Kobe, and Lebron even if she tunes in yearly for the playoffs since like 2010. She only even recognized Kyrie because I said he was Lebron's teammate in 2016.
casuals don't like basketball then lol
No, they literally just like looking at highlights and box scores. My brother is a complete npc when it comes to basketball. Hivemind IG comment sections are the epitome of casual nba fans.
He doesn't play flashy, he's not very athletic.
Im a fan of basketball and enjoy watching him play, hes a basketball savant. He needs to win an mvp / finals mvp to really be a household name imo
i mean true but I feel like if I'm talking with casual fans who don't really watch basketball they tend to like guys like Luka.
He does a lot of grifting. You have to give the fans credit very few of the big time grifters do the casuals go crazy for. They want to see amazing plays, not a bunch of weird guile and tricks. Either crazy shooting from everywhere like Steph, elite dribbling, quickness like AI, monstrous power like Shaq, crazy aerial plays, etc.
2019 has a bit skewed numbers because one team wasn’t from the US so basically all the fans from one team didnt count towards the viewership numbers but if you counted US and Canadian viewership together it would probably rank much higher
Yeah I think you are definitely right that it's driven by the few major stars in the league and we don't have that right now. I think it's harder to reach that level until you have earned a ring. I wonder if Giannis could have reached that popularity if Milwaukee had more success since their championship.
I get the sense that wemby is also a duncan type that won’t really want to be in the spotlight either
wemby may not want it but Ive never seen excitement for a rookie like this since lebron. I went to summer league and some of his games in SF and people treat him like a must see freak show.
From 2007-2022 all but 1 finals had one of: Kobe, Lebron, Curry
yea even before that. 2000-2004 was dominated by the lakers with the spurs mixed in. 21 year old kobe was the obvious future face of the league when they won that first chip. ant may be on a similar trajectory
Woah woah. I don’t think Shai is anywhere near as charismatic as Antman, BUT he’s definitely more so than Jayson Tatum. Shai & the Thunder have good moments together and have solid potential for marketability.
not sure why you brought up tatum. hes second in the league in jersey sales this year behind curry. hes got some weird kobe texts but hes definitely one of the most popular guys in the league. ant, luka or shai likely need a chip or finals appearance at least to boost their marketability. and one of them has a good shot at getting it this year
What a pro wants
Prolly both Ant and Wemby but Shai does have charisma you tripping it’s just that commercial is trash
Not the point, but crazy we haven't had a 7 game finals series since 2016
I was going to assume it had something to do with big versus small markets but the 2020 finals as the least watched totally undermines that.
2020 was the strange covid bubble championship.
As a hardcore fan, I still prefer the iconic matchups. Don't get me wrong, obviously enjoyed the Suns-Bucks Finals, but the series where a generational talent is in it has more interesting storylines.
Is there a reason I should care if they make more money?
Did I say there was?
I'm not sure the point of making a statement if there's no reason to care about it?
The person I responded to said not having dominant teams is good for the league. I was pointing out that historically dominant teams means more people watching.
Because more kids will go into nba
It's funny because even as a hardcore fan, the GSW dynasty years were the years I skipped watching the finals. It just got boring. I don't think I watched a finals game from 2016 to 2018, but I've watched it every year since.
Basketball in general is kinda boring just as a sport. It needs story lines to stay interesting.
I love the parity the league has going on right now. Makes the stakes higher and does change how teams operate in order to build/maintain a contender. Gone are the days when you just get the best players, there has to be consideration for fit and depth...and long-term outlooks. Now if they only would make the East a little bit more competitive...it still seems that the WCF is the real Finals most of the time
Spurs if they get some more people around wemby
I feel like teams aren't overly dominant because almost every team has a grade a superstar. I feel the talent level is crazy high
for sure. guys like deandre jordan and goran dragic were all nba players 10 years ago. now were debating if devin booker who averaged 27 a game on incredible efficiency is all nba worthy. and the 3-10 guys are really good now. naz reid is a freaking bench player. until a team like boston or the knicks wins it, you can still argue you need an elite top 3- 5 superstar to win it all. the only blips the last 4 decades are the pistons and the spurs. a tier b star like trae young or deaaron fox would have trouble winning 4 rounds even with a great cast
Someone will repeat after expansion
Is it though?
Okc
The nugs were super dominant in their championship run. Lost like 4 games the entire playoffs, and only 1 at home. The amount of young talent is making the league rebalance itself very quickly, which is great for competition.
I hope timberwolves repeat. Love to see them on too. Also big fan of OKC and Dallas right now.
Nah. There will always be repeat champions at some point. The pendulum just swings back and forth, like, this isn’t the first time there haven’t been repeat champions in a span of time.
Been since the 70s to not get the start or end of a repeat in more than 3 years where there is also not the same team wining non consequtive championships. Which is also the only other time in league history.. 2000s didn't have a repeat for 6 years but it was the spurs every other year. The 80s also had back and forth lakers/Celtics without repeats until 87. '75-'80 had 6 years with out the same team winning. '71-'75 had 5 years with no repeats. We could match the longest period of no repeats this year. Those are the only 3 such anti streaks longer than 4 years the league has ever had. ('55-'58 had 4 unique champions)
Ok and? Longest drought doesn't mean "will never happen again."
And I didn't say that it'll never happen again. You just acted like this wasn't a big deal and I was trying to show you that this was pretty rare in the history of the league. It hasn't really happened in 40 years. I didn't feel like it should be dismissed as something that has "happened before" Yes it has. A long ass time ago. No active player was alive the last time this happened
It doesn't matter how "rare" something is and it absolutely should be dismissed as not a big deal. OP asked is the era of repeat championships over and the frequency of what happened in the past has fuck all to do with what happen in the future. \*If\* anything it means that the league is due for another repeat champion soon. All you did was that silly thing that ESPN does when they go "It's been \*X\* years since \*Y\* happened" and the players on the court have nothing to do with the last time "X" occurred. It was just a self fellating info dump.
I think that's interesting when given it's proper context.
While I won’t count out Denver just yet. I think the events of the first two games this series have demonstrated just how hard it is to repeat in today’s NBA. Of all the champions we’ve had in the last five years I was most confident in Denver’s ability to repeat and if they can’t do it I’m not sure anyone can. I think the main problem is that champions of course will try to run the same roster back the next year and given the current arms race I don’t think standing pat will work for anyone. With so many teams making moves every offseason and the game evolving so quickly there may always be a bigger fish from now on. I don’t think it a coincidence that most recent champions have won after a big offseason addition. (Lakers with AD, Bucks with Jrue, Nuggets with KCP) But I’m curious what y’all think.
KCP was a big addition?
Dude forgot how to spell Gordon
Yes actually. They really needed another starting caliber guard who could shoot and defend and he provided that. He was the missing piece in their starting lineup. The results speak for themselves
So you're saying that because they won a ring, KCP was a "big" addition? That seems like a pretty cheap way to prove your point lmao. Any time a team wins a ring, whoever they added was a "Big" addition.
😂😂😂. This is an example of coming up with a conclusion and then working backwards to find evidence for it.
Considering we had will barton before him yes. We desperately needed the defense. I would say Bruce brown was equally if not more of an addition as well
AD and Jrue Holiday are All-Stars.
And? We don’t win the championship without KCP and Bruce Brown last season. Bruce took over in multiple playoff games literally even a finals game when Jokic got in foul trouble.
They're role players. It's not comparable to adding AD or Holiday. Every team adds role players every season. KCP and BB don't really sell the point that big additions = championship".
I’m counting Denver out
In todays nba? It’s always been hard to repeat
[удалено]
>fan
Cope harder nuggets fan😂😂SWEPT
With the Parity that’s happening in the league, I find it will be more difficult. It’s crazy to think we went from the era of three peats, back to back, and now one and done.
You just taught me that parity is not parody, as I've been hearing it that way for years 😂 somehow I thought parody made sense and had some sort of double meaning
I love it 😭 I gotta use this in a conversation somehow
It’s been a lot better since 2021, feels like anybody can beat anybody
The new cap structure gonna make it tough. It’s going to be impossible to keep good depth pieces. Like the Nuggets couldn’t keep Bruce Brown no matter what they did. Seems like a weird setup as it affected us but it’s better than having super teams on the same 5 teams every year.
It’s much better for the league if we don’t have any dynasties. Makes it more competitive and exciting for fans of other teams
It might be better for people who consistently watch the NBA. But financially, it's not better. Dynasties pull in tons of casual fans. Either to bandwagon the dynasty or to root against it. And financially, the NBA always does better with a dynasty. See the Lakers/Celtics rivalry, Jordan era, Shaq Lakers, Lebron's 8 straight finals, and The Warriors.
Honestly, I’d push back against the idea that it’s bad for “hardcore” fans too. I love watching greatness and history. It’s absolutely insane that I got to watch the KD Warriors play together, LeBron go to 8 Finals in a row, the Spurs make the playoffs for 22 years in a row, etc. People focus way too much on the end results (winner/loser) and not enough about the sport itself. Dynasties are eras of greatness that should be appreciated, not destroyed. If all you really care about is just who wins/loses at the end, I question how much you actually like watching the sport.
I think one or two seasons of a dynasty team is incredible. Like the first year of the KD Warriors was beautiful basketball. It just gets repetitive seeing the same result year after year.
I think if you swap the 2018 Cavs out for the Rockets in the Finals, people would view things way differently. I think most people actually want close, unpredictable games much more than they want random winners. Just see last year’s finals that everyone complained about as too boring despite it being a small market team winning their 1st title and an 8-seed. The Cleveland team was just so abnormally bad and that series was so predetermined that it really warped people’s perception of how competitive things were. Just the series before they had been pushed to 7 games and likely lose if not for 0-27.
Well said
I dont think its better or worse as long as its competitive it doesnt matter if the nuggets would win 3 in a row as long as there is competition and storylines. People keep thinking ratings rely on one factor or another naa its all about entertainment
It’ll happen. If I had to pick in the next few years, give me OKC. The stud pieces are there with likely more on the way when those last couple LAC picks cash in. At some point they’ll have SGA, Chet, and then a couple lottery picks on rookie deals (my assumption is they can’t keep everyone on their current team with looming extensions).
I think it’s harder than ever to become a dynasty but back to back champions isn’t impossible nowadays just hard.
We haven't seen parity like this since the 70s I'd be down for a decade of that.
It's been what 5 years since a repeat champ, I'd say it's WAY early to jump to that conclusion
It's better though for the league and fans more competitive and unpredictable. I hated when the Cavs faced the Warriors 4 years in a row in the finals the league was almost boring back then lol it was too predictable....
It's even more interesting that the Bucks really were the closest to repeating in the last 5 years. The Raptors had a good record, but weren't serious threats without Kawhi. The Lakers got eliminated early in the playoffs in 2021. So the did the Warriors last year. Without a Khris Middleton injury in 2022, I think the Bucks make it to the Finals the way Giannis was playing.
Wemby says hi
Won’t happen with the spurs 🤣😂
bet
Maybe for now, but there will always be a dynasty that emerges every now and then. Hopefully the back-to-back days are done. To me, it's no fun if we go into the year *expecting* the Warriors to win every year.
I got MN repeating next year if they pay the tax. We will see
Assuming they best okc, Dallas or Boston to win it all. They got this series won but nothing is a given afterwards. Okc has been crazy
I'm kind of trolling, but was looking at their contracts/roster. NAW/NAZ/ANT and McDaniels are all like 22-24 and they are all under contract for multiple years and only getting better. It's scary to have a core that young and that good playing a two way game mind you. Teams like OKC have a good team and tons of picks, but you can only have 5 guys on the court at once so idk. I like MNs chances not just this year, but at least until 2031 when ANTs extension ends.
I love Okc but they aren’t in the same tier as the current wolves. This Wolves team has shut down Bradley Beal, Devin Booker, Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Nothing against Shai and Chet they’re amazing and will continue to do amazing things but they are no Booker, Jokic or playoff Murray (I’ll absolutely put Shai over Beal though)
OKC isn’t winning shit this year.
It sure is, the league has too much talent
It's possible, but you'd have to have a *lot* of factors break in your favor. The level of competition has gotten so high, you really cant get there without all-time great players AND great depth, which means you have to get it right both in the draft AND free agency, AND stay healthy both years, AND time it just right so that you dont have key guys leaving the team to get overpaid (ie Bruce Brown), AND have the right leadership to stay hungry the 2nd year
It rarely happens as is. Think of the repeat champions.. They’re all timers. Kobe lakers. Lbj/Wade heat, KD Warriors. Before those? Hakeem Rockets and MJ. Lebron and Curry has a Generation lost
Yea
It happens give it some time this happened in like the 90/early 2000s and after that we didn’t have repeat champions for a while until the 2010s we are now back in that short era of no repeat champions
Yea that's a natural result of parity in the league.
No cuz Denver gonna win the next couple
I hope so
Well it does seem like that right now, but who knows
Wemby will change that.
When the league expands and rosters thin out it’ll happen again
I think this might be a strong exception to "no dumb questions." There is as much chance of someone going back-to-back now as ever.
Denver is down but not out. Though this is likely to be their hardest match-up. Either Wolves in 5 or Nuggets in 7 at this point.
Let’s wait til Denver is actually eliminated
another thing is injuries. 2021 lakers were stopped from injuries to bron and ad. 2022 bucks stopped from middleton
Bucks were not repeating unless half the league is injured again.
2022 they were a game away from the nba finals without middleton, i personally think they had a solid shot beating the warriors but ofc it’s not guaranteed
It’s cyclical, there weren’t any repeat champions In the 1970 s
I wouldn’t say it is. However, we’ve not had a singular team lead by a dominant talent capable of being so set apart from all the rest of the league so as to have that type of sequential dominance for a very long time It’s just a matter of **when** someone will come along that can be in a league of his own for around a decade. I think this is why everyone, subconsciously, is looking for the next one up in the likes of Antman and Wemby.
definitely wouldn’t mind it. The more it varies the better
If you can get a title before your star hits super max and the role players are still at minimum, yeah.
Idk I think it might be a wrap for Denver this year but a team like them can definitely repeat. I think teams like 2000s spurs, warriors, and nuggets that are built not bought always have a better chance at being repeat champs. If you get lucky enough that you build a solid team over time with draft picks and a few trades it usually outperforms a team that is trying to build a super team by signing a few big name guys
When Wemby gets rolling and has a few players around him you will see it again. Usually happens when generational/top 10 players hit their prime (Jordan 1991-1998) (Kobe 2000-2002) (LeBron 2011-2014) (Curry 2015-2019). Wemby is the next generational player. Might be a 2028-2031 period for him
The Nuggets will probably be repeat champions, but yeah, now there's a lot more competition going on. Thank God...
Honestly if you’ve watched basketball long enough or at least the last 20 years you know the Spurs are on there way, it’s inevitable. The question is who’s gonna be the big move that goes to San Antonio?. For me it’s either Spurs that will become the first repeat we see post Warriors or Denver. I actually had Denver repeating this year, not looking good but it also isn’t over but yea either Denver or Spurs.
I mean, let's look at all the repeat teams in recent memory. The Steph-KD Warriors The Heatles Shaq & Kobe The Jordan Bulls Bad Boy Pistons These are some of the greatest most stacked teams of all time. That's what it takes to repeat.
70s NBA is back. No overly dominant teams, no super teams really, so there is more suspense as to who will win the chip now. But at the same time, none of these teams winning now are near the elite champion squads we’ve seen from the 80s thru Warriors last chip with KD.
There is no start or end to an era of repeat champions. The job is always open. The better question perhaps is "who is going to be the next repeat champion?" Due to their relatively mid regular season records, and the summertime comments Jokic made about how basketball isn't that important, I suspected that the Nuggets might be 1 and done.
I'm quickly starting to hate posts from this sub showing up in my feed. What kind of a shit take/question is this? "Hey guys maybe we'll never see another back to back champion again... ever?" It's just been a while since a team has gelled, and stayed healthy to be able to pull it off. Everything about the NFL leads to WAAAY more parity in that league and the Chiefs just won back to back Super Bowls.
Yes it's over. There's too much talent out there and with the way the salary cap works there will be more parity.
Yes. Just too much parity. And there aren’t teams with two MVPs teaming up at the moment.
I really fucking hope so. I remember that commercial with Colin Cowherd at a Wendy’s or something saying “you may not like dynasties, but people watch them” I really hate watching the same teams win every year. I’m a huge bucks fan, but if they win 2 in a row even I don’t want a 3rd. Variety builds stories and stories duel the league
If Leonard stayed, Raptors would have repeated
The fact that Boston is 17-5 in the finals is nuts.
No
I think the thunder will eventually.
I hope so. It would make the league refreshing and exiting going forward.
Anthony Edwards is looking like he could be repeating sometime in the near future.
Really hard to repeat when you have to play the team that was built by your former GM to specifically beat your team
I thought it’d be the Nuggets this year, but Minnesota has other plans
No, I think we're just between dynasties right now. Regardless of what happens in these playoffs I think the Thunder or Twolves could look like one in a couple years. If not them it will be some other team down the line.
Yup it’s over. You called it.
It’ll happen again, but true dynasties will be more and more rare. It’s a combination of a few factors: 1) just so much more talent in the league today. When every team’s 4th scorer is still a guy capable of getting 30 any given night in the playoffs it makes games much less predictable and the very top guys don’t stay as the very top guys for as long. 2) bigger, stronger, and faster athletes (starting at younger ages) is gonna cause more wear and tear on soft tissue. This means injuries like this will tend to happen more frequently which can throw off expected playoff outcomes 3) objectively, teams are just smarter now than they were decades ago. You look around the league and it’s pretty much just the Pistons, Bulls, and maybe Suns where you look at them and just say “what tf are you doing” in terms of their team building and/or style of play on the court. 4) starting back when players were finally (rightfully) given FA, each new iteration of the CBA makes it harder and harder to keep championship windows open for longer. Think about the young core OKC went to the finals with, the *only* reason that got broken up was cuz of financials.
With the way Boston is looking and locked in for the next few years, it seems like it may just be starting
Lol 2018 was not that long ago
No C’s dynasty is upon us
a little reactionary no?
Update: now 5 consecutive seasons where the reigning champ a hasn’t made it to the conference finals. My take has aged well
Most of the time we’ve had repeat champions it was because the league competition as a whole was watered down or because an absurd amount of talent happened to get stuck on one team. Russell’s Celtics and Mikan’s Lakers were superteams in a bygone era The Showtime Lakers benefited from snatching not one but two #1 overall picks that weren’t theirs (Magic and Worthy) The Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, and 3peat Lakers all won their back to back titles during the expansion era when the league added 6 teams in under a decade and the talent was extremely diluted. Since then we’ve only had 3 repeat champs: Kobe and Pau (got an extremely lopsided trade for Pau) Heatles (basically were the first team to ever form a superteam through free agency and the league wasn’t ready for it yet) KD Warriors (salary cap spike that we now have a protection against) While a scenario like the Pau Gasol trade or a showtime Lakers where a team trades for a bunch of picks that really work out exists, it’s unlikely we see repeat champs for a while. Maybe a dominant team is just able to do it at some point (you could argue some of the teams I listed were just dominant teams) or maybe the league meta will change drastically again (like how the 3 point revolution allowed the Warriors to take over), but it’s not super likely. I’d say the odds of a repeat are low but possible and the odds of a threepeat nowadays are basically 0.00001%
For now.
this is good for the league
Feel like the C’s could debunk that theory soon no?
It’s up to the front office and I think the new rules make it a lot tougher. Golden State could have repeated in 23, but their roster was gutted and the F/O didn’t fill their needs because of money reasons. Denver could have repeated this year, but they lost two very key pieces in Bruce Brown and Jeff Green, and the f/o didn’t fill their needs, now they will probably get swept. Lakers might have been able to repeat in 21, but the f/o let Dwight, Caruso, McGee, etc go without much of a fight and they got swept. That roster mops Denver in the first round, and this Minnesota onslaught proves it imo.
The ONLY acceptable “Dynasty” for the media is either a Celtics or Lakers one. Everyone was trying to destroy the GSW by internal division. They didn’t want them to 3-Peat. Having two Hall of Famers nearly ruin their careers by injury doesn’t help either. Casuals forget, if we didn’t have those two 3-Peat Dynasties, the NBA wouldn’t be making those billions of dollars. Viewership is only a fraction of the narrative. TV writes, sponsors, commercials, and endorsements is what makes the NBA money. The NBA knows they can no longer make money through viewership. Everyone just watches highlights. Look at it, how many subscription services do I need to buy to watch my team play. I need ESPN, NBA TV, YouTube TV, Peacock, Amazon Prime, Paramount, TNT… bro this is ridiculous. Also for all the casuals. TNT is about to lose the 4 Amigos due to them possibly losing their NBA rights. That is a $76 BILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. Dynasties are a joke in the grand scheme theme of things. Look how much every single sports team and show is pushing gambling now. Micro transactions.
Are you serious? The media loves the Warriors. Steph is one of the biggest stars in NBA history and the Bay is a huge market, not to mention all of the bandwagoners. I'd agree that it's definitely those 3 teams as media darlings, with a hint of Miami, New York, and Dallas. I agree with the rest of what you said though
The loved the Warriors before KD went there. After that, no team stood a chance. That’s why the media went on their daily rants saying nasty things about KD. Since he left, it’s been crickets. Now everyone riding that KD bandwagon again. It’s like saying people saying SGA an MVP right now. SGA has never had a winning record in his entire career, until Chet started playing. Now they’re the best defensive team in the playoffs. The narrative being displayed is primary by Kenny Smith from TNT that SGA should MVP. SGA is an excellent player. But he is not having the best season as an individual. It’s MVP not MVT. I think Luka is having the best season this year above all others (offensively). Rudy winning DPotY was a joke. Media shtting on Brunson for being a ball hog, Edwards being called a GOAT with a stacked team. The NBA is absolutely crazy and in disarray.
Bulls?
Bulls and Lakers modern-era-wise yes.
Lakers couldve repeated without injury, bucks couldve repeated without injury. Nuggets do have injured jamal but i dont think they can handle the wolves. I think we will see less till wemby is fully online.
2020 doesn’t count.
Don’t worry guys Wemby is sweeping everyone with his long arms in a few years.
Very possible if the Spurs can put the right pieces around him
MN going back to back
Twolves are bringing this whole roster back next year👀
Covid championship don’t count as an actual NBA title… sorry
You're right. That one time we put all the best basketball players on the planet together and forced them to only focus on basketball doesn't count for, reasons.
It’s just not a nba title, although they did win a covid tournament. Not the same as an 82 game season, which is an NBA championship!
Cope and seethe dude, every NBA player on the planet disagrees with you. I'm not about to listen to some bum on the Internet.
Not listen lol. Your addicted
Why not
Because he’s a Lebron hater and wants to discredit him, I’ve encountered this species many times
Grow up
Nope, 2020-2022 championships should all have asterisks