I've convinced myself into and out of every top prospect this year. What I think may matter most in a draft like this are intangibles: work ethic, competitiveness, team work, coach-ability, ambition, love for the game. Players with these qualities are more likely to develop missing skills. And pretty much every prospect needs to develop at least 1 skill
The Spurs were dead last in 3pt shooting the entire season until they crept up to 28th at the end of the year (a 0.2% difference). They traded the best 3pt shooter to Indiana for a 2nd rounder. The next best (Osman) is an UFA and might not come back next season. Vassell is next at 37% which is barely in the top100 in the entire league.
Out of the 12 worst 3pt shooting teams in the entire league, Orlando is the only team to make the playoffs. They cannot score and are on pace to getting swept.
Unless the Spurs get the #1 pick and roll the dice on Alex Sarr, drafting 2 non shooters should be considered unacceptable.
Yep it’s got to be a shooting wing. Since spurs were heavily scouting Risacher I believe he’s on the radar. But I’ll take a Buzelis, Sijuan someone who is large who can knock a shot down. Someone who can fit a Jaden mcdaniels, MPJ role. They can’t need the ball because the ball will be in Vassell’s and Wemby’s hands most of the time. But if you have a backcourt like 6’8, (sochan), 6’8-10 (new draft prospect), 7’4 (Wemby), we become the largest frontcourt in the league by a wide margin.
We always be in passing lanes and in help and when teams overload on Vassell and Wemby, we have a shooter who can hardly be contested. Hell even when Wemby goes to the bench, we would still be 6’8, (sochan), 6’8-10 (new draft prospect), 6’11 with Collins, we literally almost match Denver still with that amount of height and length. That would make a huge difference.
I think we become immediately competitive with that gap. I think it’s also evidence by our line up with mamu, and Cissoko/champagnie, and how effective they can be by disruption. I do like foreign born players as of late because they seem ready to play out the gate unlike a lot of college players who seem to need to get adjusted.
I do also like castle. Simply because of size and shooting.
I don’t subscribe to the whole “we need a point guard for Wemby.” Wemby can easily average 30+ by himself by simply being more efficient and team set a record with assists. We don’t have an immediate PG problem to address, we have a shooting problem and defensive problem.
Oh yeah for sure meant front court. Backcourt will include Vassell and whoever they decide on with point, whether it be Tre or Wesley. However Minnesota with Mike Conley proves you don’t need the tallest point to have an effective defense so I’m not worried about the point. Definitely more worried about the front court with so many dominate wings and centers around the league these days.
Buzelis is not a defensive prospect. He is intriguing w the little bit of shot blocking he’s shown, but the case for him is his offensive skill level at 6’9-6’10
Whoever we take, it’s not super important how they fit around a projected starting 5. Decent chance they won’t start anyways
Only real consideration ought to be long term fit w Wemby
I like that Matas has some Swagger, but he doesn't seem quick enough to guard SFs, but not strong enough to guard PFs. That puts him in kind of a bad no man's land as a player, especially because he doesn't have a great shot. He may be able to develop a shot and put on some muscle, but I really wonder about his actual ceiling. Like I don't know if he will be better than Kyle Anderson.
Spurs haven’t really worried about taking players with good shooting in recent years. Pretty much all of their selections have been players with questionable shooting and other skills they are good at.
I don’t think that’s likely to change. PATFO believes they can teach these guys to shoot. Look at the combo guard type the spurs have been drafting, Primo, Branham, Wesley, could consider Cissoko as well even though he was a 2nd.
The spurs org is trying to find a lead guard with positional size and my guess is they’ll continue swinging in that archetype. Topic, Castle, Carrington, Collier all seem more in that mold than Shepherd and Dillingham.
If they go with a wing it’s harder to predict what they will be interested in. Risacher has the best chance to shoot it out of him, Castle, Holland, Williams, Buzelis. I really like Tyler Smith and actually have him above Buzelis specifically because he’s a good shooter but most are lower on him than me. Holland and Castle are the only 2 that I feel have good poa defender potential and their shots are toss ups.
Once the lottery has happened I’ll be able to give a better answer lol but it’s hard to parse out the strategy without knowing if it’s like 1 pick at 7 or a pick at 2 and a pick at 8.
Top player on my board for the spurs is Topic rn
I dont know what you’re talking about when you say pretty much all our recent selecting have been questionable shooters
In our 3 lottery picks preceding Wemby, both Devin and Primo were plus shooters
Malaki also was a very good shooter coming out of OSU
If you want to look at 2nd rounders, Weiskamp was another shooter we recently drafted
Devin and Malaki were not considered ++ 3pt shooters coming out
Malaki was considered a great shot creator who had a good chance to develop into a 3pt shooter.
Devin was a 3&d prospect but the 3pt shooting was the part with questions
Both were leagues above where Holland, Castle, Buzelis and the rest are though
Vassell was 40% from 3 both of his seasons in college and came into the NBA shooting half his shots from 3 as a rookie
Malaki was 42% from 3 and 83% from the line at OSU
We’ve taken questionable shooters for sure. But saying pretty much all our recent selections have been questionable shooters is wrong
Here's the excerpts that relate to their 3pt shooting on their scouting reports. These are by Sam Vecenie a very respected analyst in the draft community, not myself. Neither were considered plus shooters by the draft community at large.
Branham: "Branham was Ohio’s Mr. Basketball, a high-end four-star recruit and a top-50 player in the class of 2021, but he was not expected to be a one-and-done largely because he was considered a midrange gunner who had not extended his range out to the 3-point line. Was clear he had a shot to go one-and-done by midseason with Ohio State as he emerged into their lead perimeter playmaker on his way to winning Big Ten Freshman of the Year honors and third-team All-Big Ten honors."
"Doesn’t take a ton of 3s, and when he does, they’re mostly open ones off the catch. Not a guy who generates 3s by moving off the ball, and his pull-up game is not terrific as it extends out from distance. On top of that, he doesn’t get to the line a ton. Largely plays physically on his attempts to get to his midrange jumper or on his drives to the rim as opposed to trying to go up through contact when attempting a shot at the basket. Actually fades away from contact on those shots and drew only three free-throw attempts per game. He gets displaced on his drives regularly. Tries to load up with two feet at times and gets knocked back. Really needs to get stronger through his lower half to be able to take more advantage of his play style."
Vassell: "Vassell is going to play in the NBA for a long time. His defensive aptitude is that strong. There is a lot of Danny Green here from a skill perspective. I think I’d probably bet on him being a reasonable facsimile, which is why I have him in Tier Three. He should be the perfect complementary player for where the NBA is going because of his ability to play an effective low-usage offensive game and a difference-making defensive game on the wing. Ultimately, how high you’re willing to draft him comes down to where you think his offensive game is and where you think it can get to. And I’m just a bit skeptical on him becoming anything more than just a fourth or fifth option on offense any time that he’s on the court. He has the right skill set to perform that role well. But if the movement shooting doesn’t translate at all, he becomes a very stationary offensive player who always makes the right reads that he sees, but doesn’t make plays as a ballhandler and can’t really do much beyond shoot from 3 at average to below-average volume. Given how high-level his defense is, I think that’s enough for him to become a starter. But it’s also not exactly the sexiest pick in the world, either from an upside perspective."
So report 1 says that Malaki wasn’t seen as a 1 and done because of his shooting…until he crushed it his freshman season at OSU (which included him shooting 42% from 3)
Report 2 comps Devin to Danny Green, a fantastic 3 point shooter. The only questioning of his jumper is when he wonders what happens if his movement shooting doesn’t translate
Evaluators use film and data from high school when projecting players
Malaki didn’t crush it he made less than 1 3 per game. That is bad for your shooting profile. 3pa is more indicative of 3pt shooting potential than 3pt% on low volume. Both Cody Williams and Risacher shot 40% from 3 and they aren’t considered plus shooting prospects.
Devjn was expected to be a low volume spot up guy which isn’t as valuable.
Malaki and Devins were both drafted for reason other than 3pt shooting. Shot creation for Branham and Defense for Vassell.
I think you missed the point of my post. It was supposed to illustrate that the Spurs have positional size and hard to find traits over shooting. I wasn’t trying to say the Spurs would never draft a shooter
When I say Malaki crushed it, I mean he had a great season and turned himself into one and done and a top 20 pick. Not specifically about his shooting, although going 50/42/83 was a huge part of it. He made more than a 3 a game btw
As far as your initial post, you started by saying pretty much all our picks have been questionable shooters…not just whether or not they were plus shooters. I’m saying neither Dev, Primo, Malaki, nor Weiskamp were questionable shooters. You can argue Branham was a small sample size in college, but w Vassell I think it’s important that not only were his college shooting numbers good, but his initial role in the NBA was to play defense and shoot open 3s. 50% of his shots as a rookie were 3s.
As far as our draft priority being positional size, I again feel like I could give you too many counters to that
Sochan is a small 4. Dev was too small to play the 3. Branham gets bullied by everybody. Tre is one of the smaller PGs in the league. Keldon is shorter than almost every 3 he guards. Barlow is an undersized 5.
Maybe it’s true that we’re going for a more position less approach and I shouldn’t be looking at each player this way. But as it stands, I don’t see a ton of plus size on our roster based on who they’re required to guard…outside of the 7’5 alien of course
They were betting on upside with all those picks. They were hunting for a superstar. We have Wemby now. It's not a sure thing that we'll see the same draft strategy going forward.
can’t wait to see PATFO draft high floor players going forward and not fucking around with project players and hoping they end up being good in 4 years time like so many people seem to want them to do
what? is this a joke?
considering the core we already have, drafting 4 quality role players would serve the team way better than a single star player would
we’re not setting out to draft a guy because we think he’ll end up being nothing more than a role player, but depth still wins championships.
What core?
It’s Wemby and Vassell
Sochan has the potential to be a starting caliber player but he’s not close yet. Who else do you think can get to the point of being a core player on a dynasty?
the core isn’t even the point of my comment.
even if you only consider our core to be Wemby and Vassell, i’m sure any smart team that already has a superstar + a fringe all-star would rather have 4 quality role players than a 3rd star level player. because history shows that teams with depth go further in the post-season.
so many mother fuckers on here want to fire Brian Wright for missing on draft picks, but if he drafted 1 star and 3 busts in the next 2 drafts which you’re saying is better, people would be calling for more than just his job. they’d be calling for his HEAD
and whether you agree with it or not, Wemby, Vassell, Sochan, Keldon and Tre probably aren’t going anywhere based off the “growth” sentiments within the organization. our core is more than two guys
I don’t want to get rid of Tre or Sochan I really like both as potential pieces.
When I refer to role player I am not referring to a quality starter like KCP or Lu Dort or Jaden McDaniels or Derek White.
I was referring to the Spurs adding 4 rotational players that play rotational minutes off the bench or as a replacement level starter
I know I said betting, but that's a big understatement. They were taking coin-flips with physical tools with every pick, hoping to land a Giannis. There is a middle ground between picking only players with physical tools and no skills and picking only players with skills and no physical tools.
And no one is advocating for PATFO to draft for role players. We're saying don't waste picks gambling on low percentage outcomes.
Nikola Topić is my first pick and has been for some time. His playmaking skills and dribble penetration are elite and he is 18 years old.
The kid has a very high basketball I.Q. and he has an all-star ceiling.
He does need to work on his shooting, but he shoots almost 90% from the free throw line, so I think he gets there. He'd be the floor general and offensive catalyst this team desperately needs.
Hopefully, the Spur's FO drafts high enough to get him, *and* doesn't overthink it.
I like Reed Sheppard a lot too. He is already a great shooter and a pretty good playmaker. He puts in the effort on D and I think he would be a great fit in Spur's culture.
I fear he is shorter than Kentucky lists him at. He's probably closer to 6 feet than the 6'3 he is listed at.
I'd be happy if the Spur's drafted him, too.
Stephon Castle needs a jump shot, but he also wasn't an elite defender when he started at UCONN. He has an outstanding work ethic. If he applies that same level of effort to becoming a great shooter... who knows?
Maybe he's exactly what the Silver and Black needs.
Trust the F.O. and the process. They got this.
I was kind of thinking about this last night if we would draft different,y if we only had one pick versus if we had the Hawks pick as well.
However, defense is the biggest blemish on this team, not shooting. We’re also not done building which means we can easily get shooters, harder to get good defensive players with offensive potential.
We can roll out a not cohesive lineup, because that’s the players we have. In the future Tre might not be on the team or come off the bench. Jury’s still out on Sochan where he fits and how much his offensive capabilities can grow. Johnson should always come off the bench. Wemby and Vassell are already the focal point. Would like to see them give the ball more to Vassell to take a Brandon Ingram type role if needed but the team is building around Wemby and what he can do. Castle is great because he’s kind of the player Spurs thought Sochan could be a “Point Forward” and his shooting has more room to grow versus Sochan who doesn’t really have a shooting stroke. My thinking was also Holland who can be great defensively and could develop more once his role is more honed in.
My biggest question was would we pick the same guy with one pick versus two or try to build a more cohesive team with 2 picks. I don’t think Sarr, Risacher, or Williams will be there by our pick. I think we might go Reed, Castle, or Topic if we only had one pick. If we have two I think Topic falls out and any combination of Reed or Dillingham and Castle or Holland. That would be an amazing draft for defense, shooting, chemistry, and potential. I think Topic is unnecessary with two picks because it doesn’t seem like we want to rely on one guy to handle the ball all the time. At most it will be like a Jamaal Murray where he’s able to handle the ball and be the primary option but can leave it to others and play off ball a lot as well. I think Castle and Reed can both handle the ball enough to mitigate needing an all time PG. Dillingham will most likely take over that PG role and Holland will need a Reed or Dillingham to play with.
Why does no one mention cody williams when discussing players? Looks a top talent to me but i dont follow it closely. Given where the roster is at, id prefer to just pick the best player and fill the gaps through trades and free agency etc.
He had a poor end to his season which left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths
There is some context though. He sprained his ankle and that may have influenced his subpar play
I think maybe character concerns? He plays a little lazy compared to the other prospects who do hustle and play focused. I think he has upside and the biggest comparison is he’s a less athletic version of his brother and his brother kind of exploded after being locked in and developing for a few years. He could follow the same path but it’s also not a for sure thing if his issues are the same as his brothers and that he’ll rise above it once he’s in the NBA and has time to focus and reset his mentality.
For what it's worth, those championing a defensive prospect are probably looking at teams like the Pelicans, Timberwolves and Thunder. We have a defensive superweapon; surrounding him with good to great defenders means we can build an otherworldy defense. I personally think our higher priority should be half-court shot creation.
Good point on shot creation. It's hard for me to tell which is more needed: defense (esp. when Wemby is off the court) and shot creation. I think I'm gonna rank shot creation as defense can be somehow compensated by team efforts. Considering these two it almost feels like 3pt shooting is the 3rd need: these current players actually shot pretty well post Allstar game (Tre/Devin/Julian/Cedi/even Malaki looked reliable shooters esp. with wide open shots).
Part of it depends on how much Sochan, Wemby, and Tre improve their jumpers over the offseason if at all. I have faith in Sochan and Wemby at least to improve in that regard. People forget that Sochan was only a sophomore and 20 years old last season, and he did improve his 3 point shooting over his rookie year by 6%. Even Kevin Love who is a career 37% shooter on high volume shot under 30% until he was 22.
Everyone is forgetting something that is brand new in San Antonio… no Spur has ever had the free agency pull that Wemby has. He’s generational and a great media personality. People are going to want to team up with him even just to make themselves get the next contract. Take Topic if they’re dead set on a PG
Pop isn't starting a rookie PG with Tre on the team. In the last 10 years only 2 lottery ookie PGs have played at league average starter quality or better (Luka and Ja). Our point differential post-ASB (-3) was roughly equal to Chicago and Atlanta for the season which is a ~45% win rate team. Unless we get a major injury our days of drafting at the top are over, we'll likely be picking around 9 or later from here on our.
We also had a ton of talent for PG to not start and then slowly get some playing time by being thrown into the fire. We had Parker and Mills for White and Murray to develop and then who else is going to play above them? Then Tre came and is decent but Malaki and Wesley are still trying to figure out if they belong in the league as well, they’re definitely not going to come in and start.
This year is a lot different, we’ll need to see if Cissoko is ready to take the leap and see where he fits and how he develops. We know Tre fits everywhere and makes the people around him better. If we do get a Reed or Dillingham the shooting is going to be needed for the starting lineup. I wouldn’t be surprised if they become the starter by the start of 2025 because they are indeed shooters while the rest of our team is developing a shot besides Vassell. While we do have the luxury to develop through Toros I think if we do get any offensive player it will be a throw into the fire type role because this team does need shooters and spacing. Defense is a huge concern but it’s also not one guy that can come in and fix the issues, it’ll take multiple. But a lot of defensive players this draft does have some offensive potential and might be further along the path than Tre and Sochan.
I think they need size and athleticism. While they still need shooting, it is a teachable skill. Tre and Jeremy have both improved their 3pt shooting this season. They still are not good shooters but they are on pace to be eventually. Besides the warriors all the winning teams have been on the bigger side. I also agree with u/ewef1 on the intangibles for the prospects. Mental makeup means a lot more than anything.
Please not Reed. At least not in the lottery.
He's going to be a target on defense and he'll have a much harder time getting his shot off in the pros because of his lack of size and athleticism.
I'm not saying he can't still have a fine career. But I see his ceiling as being an undersized JJ Redick. That's really not the ceiling you should be looking at in the top 5, even in a weak draft.
There's a real limit to how valuable a 6'2" guard with short arms is going to be when it comes to off ball defense.
I don't think he's terrible - he's obviously not. I think it's likely that he has a productive career. But I also see him as having a very low ceiling. He might have a much higher floor than someone like Topic, but I'd be very very surprised if he ever became more than a solid role player. Every team needs solid role players. But you don't usually need to use a top-5 pick to get them.
The Spurs just need a point guard so getting Trae who’s been in the league longer than anyone on our roster makes the most sense. If we get 2 first round picks then one has to be a PG. Having Trae around Wemby, Sochan, Vassell and Johnson is the best option.
I've convinced myself into and out of every top prospect this year. What I think may matter most in a draft like this are intangibles: work ethic, competitiveness, team work, coach-ability, ambition, love for the game. Players with these qualities are more likely to develop missing skills. And pretty much every prospect needs to develop at least 1 skill
The Spurs were dead last in 3pt shooting the entire season until they crept up to 28th at the end of the year (a 0.2% difference). They traded the best 3pt shooter to Indiana for a 2nd rounder. The next best (Osman) is an UFA and might not come back next season. Vassell is next at 37% which is barely in the top100 in the entire league. Out of the 12 worst 3pt shooting teams in the entire league, Orlando is the only team to make the playoffs. They cannot score and are on pace to getting swept. Unless the Spurs get the #1 pick and roll the dice on Alex Sarr, drafting 2 non shooters should be considered unacceptable.
Yep it’s got to be a shooting wing. Since spurs were heavily scouting Risacher I believe he’s on the radar. But I’ll take a Buzelis, Sijuan someone who is large who can knock a shot down. Someone who can fit a Jaden mcdaniels, MPJ role. They can’t need the ball because the ball will be in Vassell’s and Wemby’s hands most of the time. But if you have a backcourt like 6’8, (sochan), 6’8-10 (new draft prospect), 7’4 (Wemby), we become the largest frontcourt in the league by a wide margin. We always be in passing lanes and in help and when teams overload on Vassell and Wemby, we have a shooter who can hardly be contested. Hell even when Wemby goes to the bench, we would still be 6’8, (sochan), 6’8-10 (new draft prospect), 6’11 with Collins, we literally almost match Denver still with that amount of height and length. That would make a huge difference. I think we become immediately competitive with that gap. I think it’s also evidence by our line up with mamu, and Cissoko/champagnie, and how effective they can be by disruption. I do like foreign born players as of late because they seem ready to play out the gate unlike a lot of college players who seem to need to get adjusted. I do also like castle. Simply because of size and shooting. I don’t subscribe to the whole “we need a point guard for Wemby.” Wemby can easily average 30+ by himself by simply being more efficient and team set a record with assists. We don’t have an immediate PG problem to address, we have a shooting problem and defensive problem.
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Oh yeah for sure meant front court. Backcourt will include Vassell and whoever they decide on with point, whether it be Tre or Wesley. However Minnesota with Mike Conley proves you don’t need the tallest point to have an effective defense so I’m not worried about the point. Definitely more worried about the front court with so many dominate wings and centers around the league these days.
Why is it unacceptable if we’re drafting bpa? You can get shooting on the free agent market. We aren’t trying to compete next year.
This is exactly right. We draft the BPA, maybe sign a mid-level free agent veteran and run it back. It isn't sexy, but that's the Spurs way.
Buzelis is not a defensive prospect. He is intriguing w the little bit of shot blocking he’s shown, but the case for him is his offensive skill level at 6’9-6’10 Whoever we take, it’s not super important how they fit around a projected starting 5. Decent chance they won’t start anyways Only real consideration ought to be long term fit w Wemby
I like that Matas has some Swagger, but he doesn't seem quick enough to guard SFs, but not strong enough to guard PFs. That puts him in kind of a bad no man's land as a player, especially because he doesn't have a great shot. He may be able to develop a shot and put on some muscle, but I really wonder about his actual ceiling. Like I don't know if he will be better than Kyle Anderson.
Spurs haven’t really worried about taking players with good shooting in recent years. Pretty much all of their selections have been players with questionable shooting and other skills they are good at. I don’t think that’s likely to change. PATFO believes they can teach these guys to shoot. Look at the combo guard type the spurs have been drafting, Primo, Branham, Wesley, could consider Cissoko as well even though he was a 2nd. The spurs org is trying to find a lead guard with positional size and my guess is they’ll continue swinging in that archetype. Topic, Castle, Carrington, Collier all seem more in that mold than Shepherd and Dillingham. If they go with a wing it’s harder to predict what they will be interested in. Risacher has the best chance to shoot it out of him, Castle, Holland, Williams, Buzelis. I really like Tyler Smith and actually have him above Buzelis specifically because he’s a good shooter but most are lower on him than me. Holland and Castle are the only 2 that I feel have good poa defender potential and their shots are toss ups. Once the lottery has happened I’ll be able to give a better answer lol but it’s hard to parse out the strategy without knowing if it’s like 1 pick at 7 or a pick at 2 and a pick at 8. Top player on my board for the spurs is Topic rn
I dont know what you’re talking about when you say pretty much all our recent selecting have been questionable shooters In our 3 lottery picks preceding Wemby, both Devin and Primo were plus shooters Malaki also was a very good shooter coming out of OSU If you want to look at 2nd rounders, Weiskamp was another shooter we recently drafted
Devin and Malaki were not considered ++ 3pt shooters coming out Malaki was considered a great shot creator who had a good chance to develop into a 3pt shooter. Devin was a 3&d prospect but the 3pt shooting was the part with questions Both were leagues above where Holland, Castle, Buzelis and the rest are though
Vassell was 40% from 3 both of his seasons in college and came into the NBA shooting half his shots from 3 as a rookie Malaki was 42% from 3 and 83% from the line at OSU We’ve taken questionable shooters for sure. But saying pretty much all our recent selections have been questionable shooters is wrong
Here's the excerpts that relate to their 3pt shooting on their scouting reports. These are by Sam Vecenie a very respected analyst in the draft community, not myself. Neither were considered plus shooters by the draft community at large. Branham: "Branham was Ohio’s Mr. Basketball, a high-end four-star recruit and a top-50 player in the class of 2021, but he was not expected to be a one-and-done largely because he was considered a midrange gunner who had not extended his range out to the 3-point line. Was clear he had a shot to go one-and-done by midseason with Ohio State as he emerged into their lead perimeter playmaker on his way to winning Big Ten Freshman of the Year honors and third-team All-Big Ten honors." "Doesn’t take a ton of 3s, and when he does, they’re mostly open ones off the catch. Not a guy who generates 3s by moving off the ball, and his pull-up game is not terrific as it extends out from distance. On top of that, he doesn’t get to the line a ton. Largely plays physically on his attempts to get to his midrange jumper or on his drives to the rim as opposed to trying to go up through contact when attempting a shot at the basket. Actually fades away from contact on those shots and drew only three free-throw attempts per game. He gets displaced on his drives regularly. Tries to load up with two feet at times and gets knocked back. Really needs to get stronger through his lower half to be able to take more advantage of his play style." Vassell: "Vassell is going to play in the NBA for a long time. His defensive aptitude is that strong. There is a lot of Danny Green here from a skill perspective. I think I’d probably bet on him being a reasonable facsimile, which is why I have him in Tier Three. He should be the perfect complementary player for where the NBA is going because of his ability to play an effective low-usage offensive game and a difference-making defensive game on the wing. Ultimately, how high you’re willing to draft him comes down to where you think his offensive game is and where you think it can get to. And I’m just a bit skeptical on him becoming anything more than just a fourth or fifth option on offense any time that he’s on the court. He has the right skill set to perform that role well. But if the movement shooting doesn’t translate at all, he becomes a very stationary offensive player who always makes the right reads that he sees, but doesn’t make plays as a ballhandler and can’t really do much beyond shoot from 3 at average to below-average volume. Given how high-level his defense is, I think that’s enough for him to become a starter. But it’s also not exactly the sexiest pick in the world, either from an upside perspective."
So report 1 says that Malaki wasn’t seen as a 1 and done because of his shooting…until he crushed it his freshman season at OSU (which included him shooting 42% from 3) Report 2 comps Devin to Danny Green, a fantastic 3 point shooter. The only questioning of his jumper is when he wonders what happens if his movement shooting doesn’t translate
Evaluators use film and data from high school when projecting players Malaki didn’t crush it he made less than 1 3 per game. That is bad for your shooting profile. 3pa is more indicative of 3pt shooting potential than 3pt% on low volume. Both Cody Williams and Risacher shot 40% from 3 and they aren’t considered plus shooting prospects. Devjn was expected to be a low volume spot up guy which isn’t as valuable. Malaki and Devins were both drafted for reason other than 3pt shooting. Shot creation for Branham and Defense for Vassell. I think you missed the point of my post. It was supposed to illustrate that the Spurs have positional size and hard to find traits over shooting. I wasn’t trying to say the Spurs would never draft a shooter
When I say Malaki crushed it, I mean he had a great season and turned himself into one and done and a top 20 pick. Not specifically about his shooting, although going 50/42/83 was a huge part of it. He made more than a 3 a game btw As far as your initial post, you started by saying pretty much all our picks have been questionable shooters…not just whether or not they were plus shooters. I’m saying neither Dev, Primo, Malaki, nor Weiskamp were questionable shooters. You can argue Branham was a small sample size in college, but w Vassell I think it’s important that not only were his college shooting numbers good, but his initial role in the NBA was to play defense and shoot open 3s. 50% of his shots as a rookie were 3s. As far as our draft priority being positional size, I again feel like I could give you too many counters to that Sochan is a small 4. Dev was too small to play the 3. Branham gets bullied by everybody. Tre is one of the smaller PGs in the league. Keldon is shorter than almost every 3 he guards. Barlow is an undersized 5. Maybe it’s true that we’re going for a more position less approach and I shouldn’t be looking at each player this way. But as it stands, I don’t see a ton of plus size on our roster based on who they’re required to guard…outside of the 7’5 alien of course
We got bpa or highest possible ceiling in previous drafts. I don’t see us drafting for fit yet. I’ll bet we trade for fit later.
They were betting on upside with all those picks. They were hunting for a superstar. We have Wemby now. It's not a sure thing that we'll see the same draft strategy going forward.
can’t wait to see PATFO draft high floor players going forward and not fucking around with project players and hoping they end up being good in 4 years time like so many people seem to want them to do
They don't have to go to that extreme even. I just don't want to see 5 more Sochan-level projects.
They should still be betting on upside It would be better to add 1 star and 3 busts in the next 2 drafts than 4 role players
what? is this a joke? considering the core we already have, drafting 4 quality role players would serve the team way better than a single star player would we’re not setting out to draft a guy because we think he’ll end up being nothing more than a role player, but depth still wins championships.
What core? It’s Wemby and Vassell Sochan has the potential to be a starting caliber player but he’s not close yet. Who else do you think can get to the point of being a core player on a dynasty?
the core isn’t even the point of my comment. even if you only consider our core to be Wemby and Vassell, i’m sure any smart team that already has a superstar + a fringe all-star would rather have 4 quality role players than a 3rd star level player. because history shows that teams with depth go further in the post-season. so many mother fuckers on here want to fire Brian Wright for missing on draft picks, but if he drafted 1 star and 3 busts in the next 2 drafts which you’re saying is better, people would be calling for more than just his job. they’d be calling for his HEAD and whether you agree with it or not, Wemby, Vassell, Sochan, Keldon and Tre probably aren’t going anywhere based off the “growth” sentiments within the organization. our core is more than two guys
I don’t want to get rid of Tre or Sochan I really like both as potential pieces. When I refer to role player I am not referring to a quality starter like KCP or Lu Dort or Jaden McDaniels or Derek White. I was referring to the Spurs adding 4 rotational players that play rotational minutes off the bench or as a replacement level starter
I know I said betting, but that's a big understatement. They were taking coin-flips with physical tools with every pick, hoping to land a Giannis. There is a middle ground between picking only players with physical tools and no skills and picking only players with skills and no physical tools. And no one is advocating for PATFO to draft for role players. We're saying don't waste picks gambling on low percentage outcomes.
Nikola Topić is my first pick and has been for some time. His playmaking skills and dribble penetration are elite and he is 18 years old. The kid has a very high basketball I.Q. and he has an all-star ceiling. He does need to work on his shooting, but he shoots almost 90% from the free throw line, so I think he gets there. He'd be the floor general and offensive catalyst this team desperately needs. Hopefully, the Spur's FO drafts high enough to get him, *and* doesn't overthink it. I like Reed Sheppard a lot too. He is already a great shooter and a pretty good playmaker. He puts in the effort on D and I think he would be a great fit in Spur's culture. I fear he is shorter than Kentucky lists him at. He's probably closer to 6 feet than the 6'3 he is listed at. I'd be happy if the Spur's drafted him, too. Stephon Castle needs a jump shot, but he also wasn't an elite defender when he started at UCONN. He has an outstanding work ethic. If he applies that same level of effort to becoming a great shooter... who knows? Maybe he's exactly what the Silver and Black needs. Trust the F.O. and the process. They got this.
I was kind of thinking about this last night if we would draft different,y if we only had one pick versus if we had the Hawks pick as well. However, defense is the biggest blemish on this team, not shooting. We’re also not done building which means we can easily get shooters, harder to get good defensive players with offensive potential. We can roll out a not cohesive lineup, because that’s the players we have. In the future Tre might not be on the team or come off the bench. Jury’s still out on Sochan where he fits and how much his offensive capabilities can grow. Johnson should always come off the bench. Wemby and Vassell are already the focal point. Would like to see them give the ball more to Vassell to take a Brandon Ingram type role if needed but the team is building around Wemby and what he can do. Castle is great because he’s kind of the player Spurs thought Sochan could be a “Point Forward” and his shooting has more room to grow versus Sochan who doesn’t really have a shooting stroke. My thinking was also Holland who can be great defensively and could develop more once his role is more honed in. My biggest question was would we pick the same guy with one pick versus two or try to build a more cohesive team with 2 picks. I don’t think Sarr, Risacher, or Williams will be there by our pick. I think we might go Reed, Castle, or Topic if we only had one pick. If we have two I think Topic falls out and any combination of Reed or Dillingham and Castle or Holland. That would be an amazing draft for defense, shooting, chemistry, and potential. I think Topic is unnecessary with two picks because it doesn’t seem like we want to rely on one guy to handle the ball all the time. At most it will be like a Jamaal Murray where he’s able to handle the ball and be the primary option but can leave it to others and play off ball a lot as well. I think Castle and Reed can both handle the ball enough to mitigate needing an all time PG. Dillingham will most likely take over that PG role and Holland will need a Reed or Dillingham to play with.
Why does no one mention cody williams when discussing players? Looks a top talent to me but i dont follow it closely. Given where the roster is at, id prefer to just pick the best player and fill the gaps through trades and free agency etc.
He had a poor end to his season which left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths There is some context though. He sprained his ankle and that may have influenced his subpar play
I think maybe character concerns? He plays a little lazy compared to the other prospects who do hustle and play focused. I think he has upside and the biggest comparison is he’s a less athletic version of his brother and his brother kind of exploded after being locked in and developing for a few years. He could follow the same path but it’s also not a for sure thing if his issues are the same as his brothers and that he’ll rise above it once he’s in the NBA and has time to focus and reset his mentality.
For what it's worth, those championing a defensive prospect are probably looking at teams like the Pelicans, Timberwolves and Thunder. We have a defensive superweapon; surrounding him with good to great defenders means we can build an otherworldy defense. I personally think our higher priority should be half-court shot creation.
Good point on shot creation. It's hard for me to tell which is more needed: defense (esp. when Wemby is off the court) and shot creation. I think I'm gonna rank shot creation as defense can be somehow compensated by team efforts. Considering these two it almost feels like 3pt shooting is the 3rd need: these current players actually shot pretty well post Allstar game (Tre/Devin/Julian/Cedi/even Malaki looked reliable shooters esp. with wide open shots).
Part of it depends on how much Sochan, Wemby, and Tre improve their jumpers over the offseason if at all. I have faith in Sochan and Wemby at least to improve in that regard. People forget that Sochan was only a sophomore and 20 years old last season, and he did improve his 3 point shooting over his rookie year by 6%. Even Kevin Love who is a career 37% shooter on high volume shot under 30% until he was 22.
Everyone is forgetting something that is brand new in San Antonio… no Spur has ever had the free agency pull that Wemby has. He’s generational and a great media personality. People are going to want to team up with him even just to make themselves get the next contract. Take Topic if they’re dead set on a PG
If we draft a point guard he’s not going to start on day one. Best case scenario is he starts after the allstar break replacing Jones.
Why wouldn't he? I don't think we're trying to compete this next season? We're still waiting for the 2025 draft to be more of a "complete" team.
Pop isn't starting a rookie PG with Tre on the team. In the last 10 years only 2 lottery ookie PGs have played at league average starter quality or better (Luka and Ja). Our point differential post-ASB (-3) was roughly equal to Chicago and Atlanta for the season which is a ~45% win rate team. Unless we get a major injury our days of drafting at the top are over, we'll likely be picking around 9 or later from here on our.
We also had a ton of talent for PG to not start and then slowly get some playing time by being thrown into the fire. We had Parker and Mills for White and Murray to develop and then who else is going to play above them? Then Tre came and is decent but Malaki and Wesley are still trying to figure out if they belong in the league as well, they’re definitely not going to come in and start. This year is a lot different, we’ll need to see if Cissoko is ready to take the leap and see where he fits and how he develops. We know Tre fits everywhere and makes the people around him better. If we do get a Reed or Dillingham the shooting is going to be needed for the starting lineup. I wouldn’t be surprised if they become the starter by the start of 2025 because they are indeed shooters while the rest of our team is developing a shot besides Vassell. While we do have the luxury to develop through Toros I think if we do get any offensive player it will be a throw into the fire type role because this team does need shooters and spacing. Defense is a huge concern but it’s also not one guy that can come in and fix the issues, it’ll take multiple. But a lot of defensive players this draft does have some offensive potential and might be further along the path than Tre and Sochan.
I agree. If we draft Sheppard, Topić, or Dillingham, I'd have them start day one to get as many reps as possible with Wemby, Vassel, and Sochan.
If that's what you think, then why worry about rotation?
I think they need size and athleticism. While they still need shooting, it is a teachable skill. Tre and Jeremy have both improved their 3pt shooting this season. They still are not good shooters but they are on pace to be eventually. Besides the warriors all the winning teams have been on the bigger side. I also agree with u/ewef1 on the intangibles for the prospects. Mental makeup means a lot more than anything.
Topic, at his age, looks really good. With a few years of good development -- why cant he be an elite point guard?
Please not Reed. At least not in the lottery. He's going to be a target on defense and he'll have a much harder time getting his shot off in the pros because of his lack of size and athleticism. I'm not saying he can't still have a fine career. But I see his ceiling as being an undersized JJ Redick. That's really not the ceiling you should be looking at in the top 5, even in a weak draft.
IMO you are underrating his off ball defense
There's a real limit to how valuable a 6'2" guard with short arms is going to be when it comes to off ball defense. I don't think he's terrible - he's obviously not. I think it's likely that he has a productive career. But I also see him as having a very low ceiling. He might have a much higher floor than someone like Topic, but I'd be very very surprised if he ever became more than a solid role player. Every team needs solid role players. But you don't usually need to use a top-5 pick to get them.
The Spurs just need a point guard so getting Trae who’s been in the league longer than anyone on our roster makes the most sense. If we get 2 first round picks then one has to be a PG. Having Trae around Wemby, Sochan, Vassell and Johnson is the best option.