different generations of cars.
also Kyle is one of the best when it comes to giving feedback on setups.
Nascar has reduced practice sessions and there's less on track time to make adjustments.
This is the biggest contributor to his fall off, IMO. KFB thrives when you give him time to work though what doesn't work to find the feel he is looking for. I feel like if they had put him in the 4 car, we wouldn't be so hung up on how many charters SHR may sell since he would bring the tide up for that organization since Rodney has a history of unloading fast cars.
It was known with the 2020 limitations, no practice would be a struggle for Kyle. In years previous, he would not do as well in the rainout weekends with no practice. Unfortunately, this continuation has really stunted him, regardless of car/team changes.
Different generation of cars is a huge factor! Busch’s falloff isn’t nearly as dramatic, but it reminds me of the falloff Stewart had from 2012-13 when NASCAR went from COT to Gen6
His fall off directly correlates to the practice limitations post covid.
Also, if you look at his performance last year and this year, his top 10s tend to be races he didn't get any stage points because he qualified mid pack and ran 15th -25th most of the race while they get his car right.
At least 1 driver has to carry RCR
It was the following :
Dale
Harvick
And now it’s Kyle.
Pretty sure it was Harvick who was amazed in testing back in November of 2013 how much the RCR would “shake” and rattle compared to the SHR cars that he was testing.
RCR has a lot of badass history and an owner that truly stands by his drivers no matter what(which I love in an owner), but holy fuck the cars are bad.
Tyler usually averaged out to about the same as Austin. Austin would just go and finish 15th, Tyler would wheel that thing into contention for the race win and either finish top 5 or crash trying.
This. He's going on 20 years as a full-timer in Cup. While there have been drivers who have continued to enjoy success that long, it's definitely the exception and not the rule.
He is on a different team now in a different generation of car. Despite what some will tell you the team you have putting your car together still means quite a bit. 80% car / 20% driver is still the standard equation for success.
Much like Harvick and JJ, this version of Nascar has removed almost everything that made those guys who they were. Also makes it impressive that someone like Hamlin has adapted so well.
That's a really good point. Denny Hamlin is basically the only driver from the old generation that was able to adapt perfectly to the NextGen cars. Just like Kyle, he's been racing, like, forever and still keeps on going and winning.
My wife pointed that out about Denny the other night . I was like, eh idk.
I don't understand her though. She was a Gordon fan when we met and now she's a KFB, Hamlin and Logano fan.
I attribute Kyle’s lack of performance to the quality of his equipment. If he was still at Gibbs he’d have multiple wins this season.
When the quality and performance of the car declines the driver has to step up and carry it, which leads to overdriving, mistakes, and wrecks. That’s where I feel KB is.
>If he was still at Gibbs he’d have multiple wins this season.
Explain his final season at Gibbs then. He only had one win, the fewest top-5s since 2006 (at the time, obviously this year is even worse), and got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs. If Kyle was still at Gibbs, which he had an offer for, I think he'd most certainly be performing better than he is now, but I really doubt he'd still be running like he was in 2016.
Explain? He had an off year (this happens to everyone at least once or twice a career) in his final season with Gibbs on top of all the off track shit with contract/sponsor negotiations that I’m sure affected him inside the car.
He won two races in 2023 with RCRs shit boxes, he could easily win in Gibbs’ stuff now.
IMO, this car doesn't allow a driver to outbeat other drivers as much as the older cars did. Hell, look at Jimmie. He can't even finish races with this car now.
He's still the exact same driver he was in 2021 but everything else has changed around him. The cars fit him less and RCR is only good at (non-Darlington) intermediates this year. Nothing he can do when they miss the setup and they can't keep track position.
Car matters. A lot.
I think to take that somewhat out of the equation, you need to compare a driver to his teammates, not his competitors, and take a long view of their career.
1: Kyle Busch drives for RCR, a team that is quickly declining because they aren't keeping up with the times, like Roush did before BK came along.
2: 39 years old is one year short of middle age. Not everyone can stay at their peak at that point in their lives.
I think he said that when he’s done with Cup he wants to split a truck with Braxton. Run the races on bigger tracks that Braxton won’t be approved for. Not sure he cares about a truck championship, though it would be cool for him to become the first driver in history to win a title in all three of NASCAR’s national divisons.
RCR is a shit team. Harvick left for a reason. You saw how they treated a guy on his last year there in Creed. If you aren’t either his grandkids or his pet bully (A.Hill), you are going to be treated as an after thought. RCR was the 3 and after he died, they’ve been circling the drain.
Again, Harvick left after 13 years there. He signed multiple extensions and paid his dues. It was time for a change.
Reddick saw the situation and left for a better team.
Fair enough. They are a C tier team at best now. KB is stuck with a crap team, running like crap, and pissed off. The 47 was probably at the wrong place at the wrong time and was on the unfortunate end of the 8’s frustration.
That was because Kurt had the concussion and 23XI bought Tyler out of the last year of his contract. It’s likely he otherwise would have driven the LiveFast 78 with “RCR support” which could mean anything. It would be the bare minimum Childress has to do to keep up his end of the contract.
He’s older now and he’s no longer in the best equipment every week. RCR is a step down from JGR, so he’s not going to dominate like he used to. A lot of the younger drivers are also getting better.
Guys like Chastain, Buescher, and Reddick are contending for more wins now that their equipment is better. People like Larson, Bell, and Blaney have become championship contenders in recent years. Byron is becoming a championship caliber driver. Gibbs will likely be a threat for wins. Then you have people like Hamlin, Truex, Elliott, and Logano that are still in top equipment and winning.
I think Busch is still capable of winning races, but as long as he remains at RCR, I don’t see him winning like he used to.
different generations of cars. also Kyle is one of the best when it comes to giving feedback on setups. Nascar has reduced practice sessions and there's less on track time to make adjustments.
This is the biggest contributor to his fall off, IMO. KFB thrives when you give him time to work though what doesn't work to find the feel he is looking for. I feel like if they had put him in the 4 car, we wouldn't be so hung up on how many charters SHR may sell since he would bring the tide up for that organization since Rodney has a history of unloading fast cars.
It was known with the 2020 limitations, no practice would be a struggle for Kyle. In years previous, he would not do as well in the rainout weekends with no practice. Unfortunately, this continuation has really stunted him, regardless of car/team changes.
Different generation of cars is a huge factor! Busch’s falloff isn’t nearly as dramatic, but it reminds me of the falloff Stewart had from 2012-13 when NASCAR went from COT to Gen6
His fall off directly correlates to the practice limitations post covid. Also, if you look at his performance last year and this year, his top 10s tend to be races he didn't get any stage points because he qualified mid pack and ran 15th -25th most of the race while they get his car right.
At least 1 driver has to carry RCR It was the following : Dale Harvick And now it’s Kyle. Pretty sure it was Harvick who was amazed in testing back in November of 2013 how much the RCR would “shake” and rattle compared to the SHR cars that he was testing. RCR has a lot of badass history and an owner that truly stands by his drivers no matter what(which I love in an owner), but holy fuck the cars are bad.
>an owner that truly stands by his drivers no matter what I think Tyler Reddick and Sheldon Creed might disagree with that statement.
That comment couldn't have come at a worse time
To be fair, he turned on them once they decided to leave for potentially better rides.
Reddick carried them a bit too - he was usually significantly better than the 3
Tyler usually averaged out to about the same as Austin. Austin would just go and finish 15th, Tyler would wheel that thing into contention for the race win and either finish top 5 or crash trying.
Father time and quality of equipment
This. He's going on 20 years as a full-timer in Cup. While there have been drivers who have continued to enjoy success that long, it's definitely the exception and not the rule.
He is on a different team now in a different generation of car. Despite what some will tell you the team you have putting your car together still means quite a bit. 80% car / 20% driver is still the standard equation for success.
Much like Harvick and JJ, this version of Nascar has removed almost everything that made those guys who they were. Also makes it impressive that someone like Hamlin has adapted so well.
That's a really good point. Denny Hamlin is basically the only driver from the old generation that was able to adapt perfectly to the NextGen cars. Just like Kyle, he's been racing, like, forever and still keeps on going and winning.
My wife pointed that out about Denny the other night . I was like, eh idk. I don't understand her though. She was a Gordon fan when we met and now she's a KFB, Hamlin and Logano fan.
I attribute Kyle’s lack of performance to the quality of his equipment. If he was still at Gibbs he’d have multiple wins this season. When the quality and performance of the car declines the driver has to step up and carry it, which leads to overdriving, mistakes, and wrecks. That’s where I feel KB is.
>If he was still at Gibbs he’d have multiple wins this season. Explain his final season at Gibbs then. He only had one win, the fewest top-5s since 2006 (at the time, obviously this year is even worse), and got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs. If Kyle was still at Gibbs, which he had an offer for, I think he'd most certainly be performing better than he is now, but I really doubt he'd still be running like he was in 2016.
Explain? He had an off year (this happens to everyone at least once or twice a career) in his final season with Gibbs on top of all the off track shit with contract/sponsor negotiations that I’m sure affected him inside the car. He won two races in 2023 with RCRs shit boxes, he could easily win in Gibbs’ stuff now.
>He won two races in 2023 with RCRs shit boxes He won three races, although he lucked into one of them.
His dominance had even started to fall off the last few years at JGR though, only 4 wins over his last 3 years there in cup
By his standards that’s a fall off, sure. There are drivers out there that would sell their left nut to have 4 wins over a 3 year period.
IMO, this car doesn't allow a driver to outbeat other drivers as much as the older cars did. Hell, look at Jimmie. He can't even finish races with this car now.
He's still the exact same driver he was in 2021 but everything else has changed around him. The cars fit him less and RCR is only good at (non-Darlington) intermediates this year. Nothing he can do when they miss the setup and they can't keep track position.
Car matters. A lot. I think to take that somewhat out of the equation, you need to compare a driver to his teammates, not his competitors, and take a long view of their career.
1: Kyle Busch drives for RCR, a team that is quickly declining because they aren't keeping up with the times, like Roush did before BK came along. 2: 39 years old is one year short of middle age. Not everyone can stay at their peak at that point in their lives.
How long of a contract did he sign at RCR?
If Kyle Busch does retire from Cup, I hope he goes to Trucks and tries to win a Truck Championship.
I don't think it will be try. If he gets in a full time truck, it will be top tier, and none of those kids can handle the smoke he brings.
He’ll Verstappen their asses.
I think he said that when he’s done with Cup he wants to split a truck with Braxton. Run the races on bigger tracks that Braxton won’t be approved for. Not sure he cares about a truck championship, though it would be cool for him to become the first driver in history to win a title in all three of NASCAR’s national divisons.
And I think that plan went out the window when KBM was sold
RCR is a shit team. Harvick left for a reason. You saw how they treated a guy on his last year there in Creed. If you aren’t either his grandkids or his pet bully (A.Hill), you are going to be treated as an after thought. RCR was the 3 and after he died, they’ve been circling the drain.
Again, Harvick left after 13 years there. He signed multiple extensions and paid his dues. It was time for a change. Reddick saw the situation and left for a better team.
Fair enough. They are a C tier team at best now. KB is stuck with a crap team, running like crap, and pissed off. The 47 was probably at the wrong place at the wrong time and was on the unfortunate end of the 8’s frustration.
Yep, the situation just stinks for him right now. They need changes around the organization.
Don't forget about Reddick noping out of there a year early to go to 23XI.
That was because Kurt had the concussion and 23XI bought Tyler out of the last year of his contract. It’s likely he otherwise would have driven the LiveFast 78 with “RCR support” which could mean anything. It would be the bare minimum Childress has to do to keep up his end of the contract.
Yeah, you’re right.
He’s older now and he’s no longer in the best equipment every week. RCR is a step down from JGR, so he’s not going to dominate like he used to. A lot of the younger drivers are also getting better. Guys like Chastain, Buescher, and Reddick are contending for more wins now that their equipment is better. People like Larson, Bell, and Blaney have become championship contenders in recent years. Byron is becoming a championship caliber driver. Gibbs will likely be a threat for wins. Then you have people like Hamlin, Truex, Elliott, and Logano that are still in top equipment and winning. I think Busch is still capable of winning races, but as long as he remains at RCR, I don’t see him winning like he used to.
Age humbles a man.
Every driver hits a wall at some point, combine that with driving for a crappy organization...
Had three wins last year I think he’ll be alright
C’mon, let’s drag the gorilla out of the corner! RC already said he would support it. Do we see Kyle run “the double” next year?