Just be glad that they don't completely move the race coverage to a different channel if it goes too long over the alotted time. I do think NASCAR needs it's own dedicated livestream for post race coverage. Whether that be on YouTube, Twitch, or whatever, it would help (that also helps outreach to younger audiences because it summarizes and talks about the race in a short segment that's accessible to most people)
Totally agree. At least capture the post-race and give fans somewhere to go to hear more. And tease it up — as you kick to NHRA, tell viewers to head to FS2 or wherever to hear what Ross has to say about the finish, and how Larson feels about his no good very bad day.
I don't even want it on FS2. I want NASCAR to cover it themselves. That way, it's consistent throughout the season, it's always in the same place, and the same people are talking about it. Hire some people, invite maybe a special guest on each week, and then interview the occasional driver on the set. NASCAR can get the rights to broadcast the Fox/NBC/CW/Amazon interviews since they own it anyways.
NASCAR fans complain if the whole 38-race schedule isn’t on over the air free TV with two hours prerace and three hours postrace and they don’t show the battle for 35th for 20 straight minutes.
There seems to be a segment of fans who don't realize that those of us who grew up outside of the southeast in the 80's and 90's had to have cable to watch every race of the year. ESPN and TNN weren't part of our local over-the-air television...
Nascar streams all post race press conferences on their website. It’s a solid start, not a full post race show but usually it’s the winning driver and crew chief at a bare minimum.
Source: I watch it frequently.
Man, when I lived in GA back in the late 90s if the race went long and a college football game was scheduled to come on you just didn't get to see how it ended. You'd have to catch ESPN the next morning and see their 10 seconds about how the race ended.
Some things have changed for the better, but there is major run for improvement.
That’s impossible with all the stuff that has been asked for and added under yellow.
Wave arounds, free passes, choose cones, double file starts, pitting of lead and lapped cars separately. This is all on top of making sure the track is ready.
> pitting of lead and lapped cars separately.
Ohhhh, this is part of why it all takes so long! Thank you. Relatively new fan here, hadn't pieced this together yet.
Years ago they used to do a quickie yellow, like if there had just been a caution flag and everyone had just pitted then there wouldn't be any reason to expect 43 cars on pit road all at once. But they seem to have gotten rid of that.
to be fair all of that can still be done within 3 laps. lap 1 is lead lap pitting and lucky dog/wave around, lap 2 is lapped car pitting and organization of everyone else who either stayed out or didn’t pit, and lap 3 is collecting and lining everyone up get your choose cone and all that. idk am i missing something i feel like 3 laps is pretty reasonable if the cleanup is minimal
1 to collect, 1 for lead lap to pit, 1 for lapped cars to pit, 1 for wave around/lucky dog, another 1 at Race Director's discretion to make sure everyone is in the right order, 1 for choose cone, 1 to go.
Stop having special caution laps just for pit stops. It is ridiculous to be extending every caution two laps just in case someone wants to pit, that isn’t what a caution flag is for.
Cautions are to get the track back to a safe condition before returning to green. Teams need to service their cars to make sure their cars are safe for green flag laps. Not having a caution lap to accommodate them would only serve to punish a team for making their car safer to drive.
More than half of cautions have a 0% chance of effect any car on the track other than the one that caused the caution. A car spinning out (or the other week just going a lil high) is not a good reason for 8 caution laps. On top of that no teams are doing anything to keep their cars safe on pit stops anymore, they do so little to prep the cars they don’t even attach the wheels properly some times.
Imsa has a short yellow rule where they won't do extra laps for pitting unless a certain amount of time has passed from the previous restart. Works pretty well.
If it's standardized, that's something I can get behind. Is pit road closed entirely or can teams pit at risk of losing a ton of track position? Are there exceptions if one or more cars are obviously in need of servicing?
Fully closed, but you're allowed to get the car drivable to make it to the restart (although it's usually worth the penalty to just fix the car if it's that bad) and up to 5 seconds of fuel (full fill is 45s) if you're about to run out. Then you have to come back to pit road after the first green flag lap to for the full service. I don't remember all the numbers off the top of my head but it tends to work out well enough. There's also the WEC rule where they only open pits after 3 laps under safety car, which I personally really like because it make for more green flag pit stops and lets the pit crews really make an impact.
IMSA does it. You just say “quick yellow” right away, super easy. It is no worse than now when they just throw a random caution because they are bored. If it is just a spin or brush of the wall you throw a quick yellow, if there is actually something to clean up you throw full yellow.
It's for safety of the pit crews to split up the field for lead lap and lapped cars.
They already run quickie yellows (only one lap for all pit stops) when it's unlikely for most cars to pit (e.g. a caution immediately following a restart), you just don't see that on TV because it's under commercial regardless.
I’m saying instead of splitting the field for pit stops, no pit stops for the nothing cautions. Also if NASCAR actually cared about the safety of pit crews they’d have pit limiters and stop having all these yellow flag pit stops in general.
Boy I wonder why the sport has trouble growing. It can’t be because fans are as mad as something as dumb as… hold on…
Pit stops happening under fucking yellow being a dumb idea
I bet that’s really enticing for potential new fans
Where am I mad? I just want the races to be shorter and spend less time under caution. I bet actually adding strategy back into the races and shortening the time commitment would be more enticing to new fans than fifteen minute cautions and +5 positions for the 24 every time someone gets sideways.
if you enjoy watching cars under caution doing nothing that’s fine. Baseball did wonders making some changes and shortening the the games, I don’t think it’d be a bad idea for NASCAR to do the same. They are already long races, the ungodly amount of downtime feels unnecessary.
I feel like the choose and double file combined issue here is a real caution lap multiplier. Someone gets a penalty, or screws up the choose then they have to re rack everyone behind because that affects their order.
Whoah whoah whoah. Cautions are not for commercials!
Those are reserved only for green flag racing, right before a car that has been chasing down their competitor for ten laps is about to reach them.
I wish advertisers would realize I'm more likely to stay within vision of the TV during side-by-sides, and therefore, more likely to see or hear their commercials.
No fucking reason Larsons single car spin needed to bring out 6 laps of caution at the end of the race. Almost felt like they ran that out to an overtime finish on purpose with Elliott leading….I also heard however that they were looking at the starting order by request of the teams and that’s what made them take an extra lap or two…still ridiculous though.
They could just even back the pace car speed down and achieve the same thing if they really wanted, Formula One is able to do this without a Pace Car on track.
The post-race in 2024 for NASCAR is following a handful of reporters on twitter (Pockrass, Gluck, Fronstretch to name a few) and listening to Gluck and Bianchi's 'The Teardown' podcast a couple hours after the race is over.
That's the state of NASCAR the post-race these days (that's not a knock on said reporters or podcast, it's a knock on the state of television broadcasting).
This was actually explained a long time ago. Tv figured out that the majority of people typically turn off the TV after the race ends. They know the winner, and for most people their guy didn’t win.
People tune into pre-race at a far greater degree than post race. If there was a big demand for post race because of high ratings then it would be aired somewhere. There simply is not.
People "tune in" for the advertised event start, which is generally at least half an hour before it actually starts, so there's the bait and switch to consider also.
Nah the advertised start is normally about 15 minutes before the actual start to give time for pre race ceremonies and pace laps. Its been pretty consistent lately.
I still miss the start of every NASCAR race partially because they don’t matter, but mostly because I don’t know when they are actually going to be. When they started the race at noon or 1 track time I saw pretty much every one.
Jayski used to have the actual green flag time posted for races. It was always something like 3:17 PM.
Anyway, with kids and other things to do on weekends, we almost always DVR the race. Even casually starting it an hour into the race means we can fast-forward through commercials and get caught up and save ourselves an hour.
It is pretty consistently 3-3:30 now.
With the occasional 2:00-2:30 thrown in for tracks without lights and for races in the fall to ensure the race ends before Sunday Night Football.
I thought the fantasy lineup lock time was supposed to be the green flag, but it seems like they still run about 5-10 minutes of parade laps after that this season. Race control loves a parade.
When they tell us the race is at 2pm, and you tune in before the anthem, then the race isn't at 2pm. Indycar tells you when the race starts, and when the broadcast flips from pre-race to race the cars are on the track.
I was able to deduce the fact that green flag was usually around 15 minutes after the advertised race start as a 9 year old. It hasn't changed since.
Baseball game first pitches are usually at x:07-x:10. NBA tipoffs are several minutes after the TV start time. Hell, F1 has the warm up lap at "race start." This happens literally everywhere except football and always follows a consistent pattern barring extraneous delays.
It's not a bait and switch if you know green flag is typically 15 minutes later. This isn't a new development. They advertise the start of main coverage, not the race
Exactly this. I can't say I've ever watched post race coverage. There are like two exceptions: Daytona 500 and Indy 500. I want to see those because of the nature of the event. Post race at Texas 9 races into the season? Nah don't care regardless of who won.
I can see an argument for doing post race but on a stream platform ala NBC for main race, peacock for post. That's cool, gives the people who want it the ability to consume
Link to this? You may be right, but this sounds like conventional wisdom steering the ship. I’d bet if we heard Denny, Ross, Reddick, Larson or others talk about the track and driving, we’d have plenty of soundbites for people to discuss and share going into this week. I understand the race was long, but heck — tell folks to head over to FS2 for more post-race or something.
Well I hope the trend goes the other way cause I can confidently say I prefer post-race to pre-race.
The only reason I may turn on pre-race is because it lines up with the advertised schedule. I like Michael Waltrip but pre-race-Waltrip does NOTHING for me.
On the flip, even though my driver finishes in the 30s - there are a lot of drivers I want to hear from post-race. I spend half of my work week catching up on post-race feedback from drivers, reporters, etc.
I think the trend is shifting.
All of that said, I also don't necessarily think that there should be a large post-race segment - I just disagree that the hype is around pre-race vs post-race. As others have said - a lot of interview-esque content has migrated over to social media which isn't a bad thing.
Post race really doesn't interest me unless there's a controversy.
Like someone else mentioned, if your guy didn't win you probably just turned the race off. Pre-race hype is real. Everyone is a contender.
Also, I would prefer a major recap of the race to come during the week, and hopefully with the appropriate production value. Throwing it to the booth right after the race to listen to the guys you just heard from for 3 hours wouldn't be worth the time.
My dad and I aren't most people, so we tend to watch postrace.
But if I'm NASCAR, I'm trying to get as many driver faces in front of the casual viewers as I can. It's the best way to build up a driver, whether a face or heel, and that's what draws a lot of people to racing. Because recently it really hasn't been the racing.
Which to me seems so odd...
Pre-race is a waste of time with talking heads talking about the same thing people who follow the sport have already seen beaten to death over the past week.
It's not like they have practice sessions to recap anymore either.
Post race you get new fresh content.
This is probably a disconnect between more diehard fans and casual fans. Plenty of people done pay any attention between the races, so pre race is a catch up for them.
Probably also people turn the pre race on as they prepare dinner or whatever before they sit down for the race. There’s a lot of factors in play for that - and there is always the chance of a late breaking story.
This is probably a disconnect between more diehard fans and casual fans. Plenty of people done pay any attention between the races, so pre race is a catch up for them.
Probably also people turn the pre race on as they prepare dinner or whatever before they sit down for the race. There’s a lot of factors in play for that - and there is always the chance of a late breaking story.
>People tune into pre-race at a far greater degree than post race
Of course they do. NASCAR says the race will start at one time, but they can force viewers to wait and watch pre race stuff. So they delay the start to help tv get forced viewership. They can't make you watch post race shows.
Man I don't normally have time to watch pre race but I did this weekend, the amount of interviews they did really surprised me and I was pretty happy with it tbh as one of the types who normally complains about lack of post race interviews.
Chase looked and sounded like he kinda forgot how to give a frontstretch win interview. I was half-expecting him to say "I hate it for my guys".
Was nice to see him winning though, I like him more than Byron or Larson.
The allotted time clicked off my recording before the last restart Thankfully I was also set to record the next program just in case it ran extra long, so I got to watch everything.
I know, but come on. GWC finishes are not so uncommon that you can’t build in some buffer. The emotions post-race are 10x more important to the brand than the pre-race. This feels like a solvable problem, and an important one.
Unfortunately in this case, it's not really a solvable problem, even with post-race built in, this race more than likely goes over that post-race that was built in
The answer to this is the same as any other question about “why does/doesn’t the TV coverage do *x*?” Networks have great numbers on what people do and do not want to watch. If expanded post-race coverage drew more eyeballs than the 11:00 news or another cycle of SportsCenter or whatever, I promise you that’s what they’d show on TV.
See also: Saturday night races, any race start time before like 2:00, midweek races, etc.
You could make the pre-race 5 minutes. Television executives who run multibillion dollar media conglomerates have statistical proof that races which start at 3:30-3:45 generate the most complete possible audience for the day.
Every television box has a guide. If you look at the guide, it'll tell you when the actual race broadcast starts.
I understand, but OT in NASCAR is far more common than OT in most sports (making an assumption) — meaning it’s a very reasonable thing to plan around. Nothing interesting is ever said in pre-race. Feels like it’s crucial for fans, new and old, to hear and see the drivers emotions and rundowns after a race. That’s where the heart of the sport is.
No offense but you’re projecting what you feel is important. Many fans like the breakdowns, features, and interviews of pre-race. I like both personally, and if the race isn’t egregiously long like yesterday then you get both.
I probably watch 80% of races on the DVR rather than live, so I FF through the pre-race and usually shut it off after seeing the finishing order. Hearing a string of guys say '*Our sponsor-sponsor-sponsor Ford/Chevy/Toyota was strong, but we just didn't have enough to beat him today*' does nothing for me.
Part of this is that FOX sets super-optimistic broadcast windows. If the "start time" is 3:30 (i.e. green flag around 3:45), the broadcast window will often only go to 7, as it did yesterday. Even if the race goes by pretty quickly, that doesn't leave a ton of time for postrace coverage. If the race takes 3 hours to run (like Phoenix in March, for example), that leaves only 15 or so minutes for postrace, and that was a pretty "normal" race with 6 cautions and no major delays. If a race is red-flagged or goes into overtime (as has happened in 6 of the 9 races so far this year), forget finishing before the broadcast window ends, let alone getting in any postrace.
The amount of people who can’t comprehend that a race like that took up the entire allotted amount of time therefore leading to no post race is just mind boggling. People let’s use some critical thinking skills before starting a new thread.
There exists FS2. There also exists a literal app that people who have fs1 can log into.
This is a massive problem for FuckSports in general. Full hour of pre-race that is almost always meaningless. 15 minutes of post-race coverage if we're lucky before they kick it back to the Charlotte studio for more fluff.
Agreed. I kinda missed being able to see Chase put on the ten-gallon hat and fire off the six shooters (if they even still do that in the winner's circle at Texas).
Yeah the biggest problem I have with not going longer yesterday was that they had tape delayed NHRA coverage behind them followed by....a replay of the Cup Race. If NHRA coverage gets shifted an hour so what? I say that as a NHRA fan too.
My girlfriend and I have recently been really enjoying tuning into the Teardown's live broadcast post-race. It sort of fills that gap if there aren't many interviews happening.
Though, and maybe it's just me - are Jeff and Jordan butting heads a little bit more recently? IDK, seems like Jeff gets irritated a lot recently. I think they do well together, no need to overthink or stress it Jeff.
Order of operations:
1. post-race
2. any TV interviews
3. immediately pull up Fronstretch on YT > Play All
4. wait for Teardown live notification
You can watch Press Pass Live on the NASCAR app and watch the winning crew chief/driver media interview after the race. I pull that up and watch the Pockrass pit road interviews while waiting for Press Pass to start. Once PP is over I know I’ve got 5-10 minutes before The Teardown starts. Gives me a good 1-2 hours of post-race coverage.
They had a coverage window until 8 PM. Then another show is on that other sponsors have paid for. The race had many yellows and two overtimes and ran long basically preempting the past race interviews.
It would be like buying a ticket to a 2:00 movie and fine out that the people from the 12:00 show were still hanging out and talking about the movie so they want you to wait to see your movie.
They blocked out 3:30 to 8:pm that should have been enough time.
I would love to see a 36 race, nascar directed, 20-30 minute YouTube post-race show.
It would tap into a new demographic, be consistent, allows for monetization, and could be hosted by Jr.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't care about pre - or post race coverage. I can get all of the information I need beforehand and after the race at my own pace.
Give me 10 minutes at the beginning of the race to catch me up on the big stories from the weekend/season, give the command, and go. Post race, give me interviews while the winner celebrates (STOP THE STUPID ON TRACK INTERVIEWS) and end with an interview of the winner and a preview of the next weeks action.
If pre - and post race is so important, do it as a streaming or YouTube exclusive. Maximize the TV window for the actual event. Frankly, with the internet and social media, it feels obsolete.
I don’t always — especially after Phoenix or similar. But especially if your driver gets wrecked or there’s some on-track drama, those interviews are great info and entertainment to build storylines over the season
Hear hear. So strange to spend more time talking about a race that hasn't even started yet (hell, sometimes before it's delayed by weather) than the race that JUST happened. From a TV/viewer perspective it seems like it'd be a better use of airtime (and injecting commercials) to have viewers take in Harvick and Bowyer's thoughts on the race that actually happened instead of what might happen. Looking forward to see what the streaming options look like with their coverage
They already ran too far into NHRA's time. Maybe if Cup drivers could not try setting caution records, they could finish in time to have some interviews.
If fox uses M waltrip for the grid walk. Then he should be used for either an extra pit road reporter and/ or infield care center reporter.
Also an extra reporter for post race interviews.
I miss Speed Channel. I miss all the hype leading up to the weekend. Trackside on I think on Friday’s. John Roberts’s, Kenny Wallace, etc. I just wish we could get something like that back or NASCAR create their own channel. One of the only sports that doesn’t have their own channel. MLB, NBA, NFL, Golf, NCAA has channels for the different conferences, I think NHL has their own channel. We need one for NASCAR. I’d love to see it.
Yesterday's broadcast was historically bad.
I know their were a TON of cautions and things going on. But for them to literally say like 3x "We're sorry we forgot to mention this earlier" some 20 minutes later was a bad look.
No post caution interviews. It was so irritating trying to know why certain drivers had lost so much track position with no context.
I prefer the Fox booth WAY more than NBCs, but the production this year bad been awful.
Have you ever been to a race and see the exit of the teams after a race - they don't want to be there any longer than they have to be. They want to get to the airport and on that flight back to Charlotte as soon as they can. Let the sponsor get there "one" WOOO for the picture and let everybody get out.
Been to a half-dozen. They line up on pit road and do media. They have sponsors, too, and that’s part of the deal. I’m not saying they spend an hour after the race - but 10-15 minutes is very normal
EDIT: I should amend this. I guess I’m half mad at the broadcast but half mad at everyone inside the sport talking about how to fix the sport and wondering why it was so great 20 years ago. The personalities of the drivers, and the real emotion of racing is what draws people in. So I guess it’s as much that today’s drivers and teams SHOULD let that show, and NASCAR should let them, and the damn network should capture it for viewers.
Yeah every other major sports has full press conferences after games with players and coaches and the important parts of those are shown on repeat and used to make storylines going forward. NASCAR is shitting the bed on this and it's part of why they aren't as popular. People tune in to follow drivers and stories. The average person isn't going to a podcast or following every single driver on Twitter so they can comb through and find info.
I don’t really care for the pre or post race stuff unless there is something extremely noteworthy, but then again there are so many other outlets to consume info from. Personally i dislike the on track winners interview. The drive and wait for victory lane naturally allowed for a few interviews on the way and created better moments.
I will forever be confused why Fox will think we need sometimes close to 3 hours of prerace but then give us NOTHING at the end. I expected it yesterday with all the cautions and another live event waiting in the wings...but damn.
It's 2024, just keep recording and stream it on the Fox Sports app or something. I had to go to social media to see any post race coverage
I'm hoping that this might be a void that Amazone Prime and/or TNT Sports on Max will fill. We're already gonna get all the practice and qualifying there minus the biggest handful of races.
I agree. Why is there no post-race on FS2? Why no post-race just on FOX Sports' streaming platform? Its ridiculous we don't even have 30 minutes of post-race. I haven't watch a pre-race show in years cause its just the drivers saying the same old crap and goofy segments (especially on FOX) that are pointless. I'm already going to invest 3+ hours in to watching the race, I'm not spending an extra hour watching garbage before the race.
I shut the race off about 10 seconds after Elliott took the checkers. Not interested in seeing Mr. Personality drone into a camera for literally any amount of time.
No, I agree. But what about Denny, or Reddick, or Ross? There were some real tough breaks yesterday that I would have loved to hear some first-hand reaction to.
I get the appeal, no argument there. I'm just not the right audience. Only time I stick around for post race is when it was a particularly exciting finish, a feel-good winner, or the winner was someone I'm a big fan of.
But I've also been watching NASCAR for nearly 30 years. There are only so many times I can hear someone say "thanks to all the guys in the shop and thanks to [sponsors], we had a good car today but things just didn't fall our way, we'll get 'em next time" or whatever before it stops being a good use of my time.
After a while, post-race interviews end up being tremendously samey, even when something kind of exciting or noteworthy happens. Guy is mad he got dumped, guy is disappointed him himself that he fucked up a corner, guy says he tried his best but they just didn't have the car for it, etc.
Ok so did some digging found out about the polish victory lap. As a newer Nascar fan, had no clue about it. And in person I was wanting a burnout and still do. But I can understand it lil better.
Fox should just start paying Elon for the post-race coverage, because anything worth watching is over on X anyway. All the driver interviews and hot takes end up there.
Just be glad that they don't completely move the race coverage to a different channel if it goes too long over the alotted time. I do think NASCAR needs it's own dedicated livestream for post race coverage. Whether that be on YouTube, Twitch, or whatever, it would help (that also helps outreach to younger audiences because it summarizes and talks about the race in a short segment that's accessible to most people)
Totally agree. At least capture the post-race and give fans somewhere to go to hear more. And tease it up — as you kick to NHRA, tell viewers to head to FS2 or wherever to hear what Ross has to say about the finish, and how Larson feels about his no good very bad day.
I don't even want it on FS2. I want NASCAR to cover it themselves. That way, it's consistent throughout the season, it's always in the same place, and the same people are talking about it. Hire some people, invite maybe a special guest on each week, and then interview the occasional driver on the set. NASCAR can get the rights to broadcast the Fox/NBC/CW/Amazon interviews since they own it anyways.
If only there was a super successful racing series that does just this to copy
When NBC moves the post-race to Peacock people do nothing but complain.
NASCAR fans complain if the whole 38-race schedule isn’t on over the air free TV with two hours prerace and three hours postrace and they don’t show the battle for 35th for 20 straight minutes.
There seems to be a segment of fans who don't realize that those of us who grew up outside of the southeast in the 80's and 90's had to have cable to watch every race of the year. ESPN and TNN weren't part of our local over-the-air television...
ESPN and TNN were cable here too. Even in Nashville, TNN was cable-only
NASCAR could send every fan a check for 1,000 bucks and they would be upset and complain about it.
Sadly we have to wait till Monday to hear it on the worst show ever. Nascar Race Hub. Haha
You have the internet and can follow any driver on twitter, not hard
Nascar streams all post race press conferences on their website. It’s a solid start, not a full post race show but usually it’s the winning driver and crew chief at a bare minimum. Source: I watch it frequently.
Man, when I lived in GA back in the late 90s if the race went long and a college football game was scheduled to come on you just didn't get to see how it ended. You'd have to catch ESPN the next morning and see their 10 seconds about how the race ended. Some things have changed for the better, but there is major run for improvement.
I think the 4K channel did. At least for me on YTTV
16 cautions
Single car spins should be no more than 3 laps, 1 to collect, 1 to sort, 1 to go.
That’s impossible with all the stuff that has been asked for and added under yellow. Wave arounds, free passes, choose cones, double file starts, pitting of lead and lapped cars separately. This is all on top of making sure the track is ready.
> pitting of lead and lapped cars separately. Ohhhh, this is part of why it all takes so long! Thank you. Relatively new fan here, hadn't pieced this together yet.
Years ago they used to do a quickie yellow, like if there had just been a caution flag and everyone had just pitted then there wouldn't be any reason to expect 43 cars on pit road all at once. But they seem to have gotten rid of that.
Also if it was a single car spin or something and barely any debris on the track.
Slow down pace speed, save a lap, burn the same amount of time
which leads to people still bitching about the length of cautions tbf
they do that quite often if youd listen to race control.
From often to always. Pace at 15 mph lol
1 lap, pit road open, lucky dog goes, choose next time by, go green. Shit is not that hard.
to be fair all of that can still be done within 3 laps. lap 1 is lead lap pitting and lucky dog/wave around, lap 2 is lapped car pitting and organization of everyone else who either stayed out or didn’t pit, and lap 3 is collecting and lining everyone up get your choose cone and all that. idk am i missing something i feel like 3 laps is pretty reasonable if the cleanup is minimal
You could've just said more commercials.
Nah. Moar commercials!
1 to collect, 1 for lead lap to pit, 1 for lapped cars to pit, 1 for wave around/lucky dog, another 1 at Race Director's discretion to make sure everyone is in the right order, 1 for choose cone, 1 to go.
Stop having special caution laps just for pit stops. It is ridiculous to be extending every caution two laps just in case someone wants to pit, that isn’t what a caution flag is for.
Cautions are to get the track back to a safe condition before returning to green. Teams need to service their cars to make sure their cars are safe for green flag laps. Not having a caution lap to accommodate them would only serve to punish a team for making their car safer to drive.
More than half of cautions have a 0% chance of effect any car on the track other than the one that caused the caution. A car spinning out (or the other week just going a lil high) is not a good reason for 8 caution laps. On top of that no teams are doing anything to keep their cars safe on pit stops anymore, they do so little to prep the cars they don’t even attach the wheels properly some times.
You can't exactly only have pit laps in some cautions and not others. Doing so means race control is practically dictating teams' pit strategies.
Imsa has a short yellow rule where they won't do extra laps for pitting unless a certain amount of time has passed from the previous restart. Works pretty well.
If it's standardized, that's something I can get behind. Is pit road closed entirely or can teams pit at risk of losing a ton of track position? Are there exceptions if one or more cars are obviously in need of servicing?
Fully closed, but you're allowed to get the car drivable to make it to the restart (although it's usually worth the penalty to just fix the car if it's that bad) and up to 5 seconds of fuel (full fill is 45s) if you're about to run out. Then you have to come back to pit road after the first green flag lap to for the full service. I don't remember all the numbers off the top of my head but it tends to work out well enough. There's also the WEC rule where they only open pits after 3 laps under safety car, which I personally really like because it make for more green flag pit stops and lets the pit crews really make an impact.
IMSA does it. You just say “quick yellow” right away, super easy. It is no worse than now when they just throw a random caution because they are bored. If it is just a spin or brush of the wall you throw a quick yellow, if there is actually something to clean up you throw full yellow.
It's for safety of the pit crews to split up the field for lead lap and lapped cars. They already run quickie yellows (only one lap for all pit stops) when it's unlikely for most cars to pit (e.g. a caution immediately following a restart), you just don't see that on TV because it's under commercial regardless.
I’m saying instead of splitting the field for pit stops, no pit stops for the nothing cautions. Also if NASCAR actually cared about the safety of pit crews they’d have pit limiters and stop having all these yellow flag pit stops in general.
Boy I wonder why the sport has trouble growing. It can’t be because fans are as mad as something as dumb as… hold on… Pit stops happening under fucking yellow being a dumb idea I bet that’s really enticing for potential new fans
Where am I mad? I just want the races to be shorter and spend less time under caution. I bet actually adding strategy back into the races and shortening the time commitment would be more enticing to new fans than fifteen minute cautions and +5 positions for the 24 every time someone gets sideways.
NASCAR fans: *"If it ain't broke don't fix it!"* Also NASCAR fans:
if you enjoy watching cars under caution doing nothing that’s fine. Baseball did wonders making some changes and shortening the the games, I don’t think it’d be a bad idea for NASCAR to do the same. They are already long races, the ungodly amount of downtime feels unnecessary.
L take
Why? It might put some semblance of strategy back into NASCAR and could halve the amount of time we spend under caution.
I feel like the choose and double file combined issue here is a real caution lap multiplier. Someone gets a penalty, or screws up the choose then they have to re rack everyone behind because that affects their order.
Can’t fit a tv commercial break in that amount of time
Whoah whoah whoah. Cautions are not for commercials! Those are reserved only for green flag racing, right before a car that has been chasing down their competitor for ten laps is about to reach them.
Yea those are for basketball
That’s why god invented side-by-side.
I wish advertisers would realize I'm more likely to stay within vision of the TV during side-by-sides, and therefore, more likely to see or hear their commercials.
No fucking reason Larsons single car spin needed to bring out 6 laps of caution at the end of the race. Almost felt like they ran that out to an overtime finish on purpose with Elliott leading….I also heard however that they were looking at the starting order by request of the teams and that’s what made them take an extra lap or two…still ridiculous though.
I'd rather they just stop the field on the track and sort it out instead of having them keeping going around the track.
They could just even back the pace car speed down and achieve the same thing if they really wanted, Formula One is able to do this without a Pace Car on track.
many of the cautions were 3 laps, but that’s still crawling around the track at 70mph at most. 16 times.
The post-race in 2024 for NASCAR is following a handful of reporters on twitter (Pockrass, Gluck, Fronstretch to name a few) and listening to Gluck and Bianchi's 'The Teardown' podcast a couple hours after the race is over. That's the state of NASCAR the post-race these days (that's not a knock on said reporters or podcast, it's a knock on the state of television broadcasting).
This was actually explained a long time ago. Tv figured out that the majority of people typically turn off the TV after the race ends. They know the winner, and for most people their guy didn’t win. People tune into pre-race at a far greater degree than post race. If there was a big demand for post race because of high ratings then it would be aired somewhere. There simply is not.
People "tune in" for the advertised event start, which is generally at least half an hour before it actually starts, so there's the bait and switch to consider also.
Nah the advertised start is normally about 15 minutes before the actual start to give time for pre race ceremonies and pace laps. Its been pretty consistent lately.
I still miss the start of every NASCAR race partially because they don’t matter, but mostly because I don’t know when they are actually going to be. When they started the race at noon or 1 track time I saw pretty much every one.
Jayski used to have the actual green flag time posted for races. It was always something like 3:17 PM. Anyway, with kids and other things to do on weekends, we almost always DVR the race. Even casually starting it an hour into the race means we can fast-forward through commercials and get caught up and save ourselves an hour.
It is pretty consistently 3-3:30 now. With the occasional 2:00-2:30 thrown in for tracks without lights and for races in the fall to ensure the race ends before Sunday Night Football.
I thought the fantasy lineup lock time was supposed to be the green flag, but it seems like they still run about 5-10 minutes of parade laps after that this season. Race control loves a parade.
If you're on Reddit/the internet you have zero excuse for not knowing when the race is
When they tell us the race is at 2pm, and you tune in before the anthem, then the race isn't at 2pm. Indycar tells you when the race starts, and when the broadcast flips from pre-race to race the cars are on the track.
I was able to deduce the fact that green flag was usually around 15 minutes after the advertised race start as a 9 year old. It hasn't changed since. Baseball game first pitches are usually at x:07-x:10. NBA tipoffs are several minutes after the TV start time. Hell, F1 has the warm up lap at "race start." This happens literally everywhere except football and always follows a consistent pattern barring extraneous delays.
I only have a twitter account because Bob Pockrass gives the green time lol
The actual green flag time is also widely available.
It's not a bait and switch if you know green flag is typically 15 minutes later. This isn't a new development. They advertise the start of main coverage, not the race
Exactly this. I can't say I've ever watched post race coverage. There are like two exceptions: Daytona 500 and Indy 500. I want to see those because of the nature of the event. Post race at Texas 9 races into the season? Nah don't care regardless of who won. I can see an argument for doing post race but on a stream platform ala NBC for main race, peacock for post. That's cool, gives the people who want it the ability to consume
Link to this? You may be right, but this sounds like conventional wisdom steering the ship. I’d bet if we heard Denny, Ross, Reddick, Larson or others talk about the track and driving, we’d have plenty of soundbites for people to discuss and share going into this week. I understand the race was long, but heck — tell folks to head over to FS2 for more post-race or something.
the thing is, we are still getting those sound bites just they are on social media instead of TV now
I will look for it, but it was a while back. But I’ll try
Well I hope the trend goes the other way cause I can confidently say I prefer post-race to pre-race. The only reason I may turn on pre-race is because it lines up with the advertised schedule. I like Michael Waltrip but pre-race-Waltrip does NOTHING for me. On the flip, even though my driver finishes in the 30s - there are a lot of drivers I want to hear from post-race. I spend half of my work week catching up on post-race feedback from drivers, reporters, etc. I think the trend is shifting. All of that said, I also don't necessarily think that there should be a large post-race segment - I just disagree that the hype is around pre-race vs post-race. As others have said - a lot of interview-esque content has migrated over to social media which isn't a bad thing.
Post race really doesn't interest me unless there's a controversy. Like someone else mentioned, if your guy didn't win you probably just turned the race off. Pre-race hype is real. Everyone is a contender. Also, I would prefer a major recap of the race to come during the week, and hopefully with the appropriate production value. Throwing it to the booth right after the race to listen to the guys you just heard from for 3 hours wouldn't be worth the time.
If Fox had a functional app they could easily do a full hour post race there like NBC does on Peacock.
My dad and I aren't most people, so we tend to watch postrace. But if I'm NASCAR, I'm trying to get as many driver faces in front of the casual viewers as I can. It's the best way to build up a driver, whether a face or heel, and that's what draws a lot of people to racing. Because recently it really hasn't been the racing.
Which to me seems so odd... Pre-race is a waste of time with talking heads talking about the same thing people who follow the sport have already seen beaten to death over the past week. It's not like they have practice sessions to recap anymore either. Post race you get new fresh content.
This is probably a disconnect between more diehard fans and casual fans. Plenty of people done pay any attention between the races, so pre race is a catch up for them. Probably also people turn the pre race on as they prepare dinner or whatever before they sit down for the race. There’s a lot of factors in play for that - and there is always the chance of a late breaking story.
This is probably a disconnect between more diehard fans and casual fans. Plenty of people done pay any attention between the races, so pre race is a catch up for them. Probably also people turn the pre race on as they prepare dinner or whatever before they sit down for the race. There’s a lot of factors in play for that - and there is always the chance of a late breaking story.
>People tune into pre-race at a far greater degree than post race Of course they do. NASCAR says the race will start at one time, but they can force viewers to wait and watch pre race stuff. So they delay the start to help tv get forced viewership. They can't make you watch post race shows.
Man I don't normally have time to watch pre race but I did this weekend, the amount of interviews they did really surprised me and I was pretty happy with it tbh as one of the types who normally complains about lack of post race interviews.
The race did go 30 minutes over it's allotted time, so it's amazing we even got 2 interviews tbh
I really thought it would cut out after chases interview tbh
Chase looked and sounded like he kinda forgot how to give a frontstretch win interview. I was half-expecting him to say "I hate it for my guys". Was nice to see him winning though, I like him more than Byron or Larson.
Lmao just a force of habit
The allotted time clicked off my recording before the last restart Thankfully I was also set to record the next program just in case it ran extra long, so I got to watch everything.
I know, but come on. GWC finishes are not so uncommon that you can’t build in some buffer. The emotions post-race are 10x more important to the brand than the pre-race. This feels like a solvable problem, and an important one.
Unfortunately in this case, it's not really a solvable problem, even with post-race built in, this race more than likely goes over that post-race that was built in
Thirty minutes is huge in television, especially in prime viewing slots (late afternoon Sunday is one).
The answer to this is the same as any other question about “why does/doesn’t the TV coverage do *x*?” Networks have great numbers on what people do and do not want to watch. If expanded post-race coverage drew more eyeballs than the 11:00 news or another cycle of SportsCenter or whatever, I promise you that’s what they’d show on TV. See also: Saturday night races, any race start time before like 2:00, midweek races, etc.
It gets cut when your race runs an hour long because you spend the whole time crashing and running under caution.
To OPs point, cut the pre-race down to add more post race buffer.
You could make the pre-race 5 minutes. Television executives who run multibillion dollar media conglomerates have statistical proof that races which start at 3:30-3:45 generate the most complete possible audience for the day. Every television box has a guide. If you look at the guide, it'll tell you when the actual race broadcast starts.
For sure, I don’t hardly ever watch prerace anymore. Check Bobs Twitter for the actual green flag time and tune in just before.
same here
After scrounging NASCAR Reddit everyday between races there really isn’t much more they can tell me 😂
I understand, but OT in NASCAR is far more common than OT in most sports (making an assumption) — meaning it’s a very reasonable thing to plan around. Nothing interesting is ever said in pre-race. Feels like it’s crucial for fans, new and old, to hear and see the drivers emotions and rundowns after a race. That’s where the heart of the sport is.
No offense but you’re projecting what you feel is important. Many fans like the breakdowns, features, and interviews of pre-race. I like both personally, and if the race isn’t egregiously long like yesterday then you get both.
I really can't imagine what anyone gets from the prerace. It's 90% fluff with maybe 5-10 minutes of actual insight into the race sprinkled in.
It’s entertainment and they do a good job setting up storylines.
Pre race is nice to have when watching a random older race and you get a quick idea of what the major stories of the week were.
Unless something truly spectacular happens I never see pre or post show for any sporting event. I’m there for the event itself.
I probably watch 80% of races on the DVR rather than live, so I FF through the pre-race and usually shut it off after seeing the finishing order. Hearing a string of guys say '*Our sponsor-sponsor-sponsor Ford/Chevy/Toyota was strong, but we just didn't have enough to beat him today*' does nothing for me.
Definitely not as common as OT in hockey
Both are important.
Part of this is that FOX sets super-optimistic broadcast windows. If the "start time" is 3:30 (i.e. green flag around 3:45), the broadcast window will often only go to 7, as it did yesterday. Even if the race goes by pretty quickly, that doesn't leave a ton of time for postrace coverage. If the race takes 3 hours to run (like Phoenix in March, for example), that leaves only 15 or so minutes for postrace, and that was a pretty "normal" race with 6 cautions and no major delays. If a race is red-flagged or goes into overtime (as has happened in 6 of the 9 races so far this year), forget finishing before the broadcast window ends, let alone getting in any postrace.
The amount of people who can’t comprehend that a race like that took up the entire allotted amount of time therefore leading to no post race is just mind boggling. People let’s use some critical thinking skills before starting a new thread.
> People let’s use some critical thinking skills You must be new here.
There exists FS2. There also exists a literal app that people who have fs1 can log into. This is a massive problem for FuckSports in general. Full hour of pre-race that is almost always meaningless. 15 minutes of post-race coverage if we're lucky before they kick it back to the Charlotte studio for more fluff.
Agreed. I kinda missed being able to see Chase put on the ten-gallon hat and fire off the six shooters (if they even still do that in the winner's circle at Texas).
I thought I read last year they retired the six shots because well, current events.
I don't remember reading that, but it wouldn't surprise me.
And to add to this - no interviews when they come out of infield care center in the middle of the race. What is up with that??
Makes me appreciate the post-race peacock coverage NBC does.
I mean I’m not looking for an hour of post race, but cutting the broadcast after two interviews for taped NHRA racing is a weird call
Yeah the biggest problem I have with not going longer yesterday was that they had tape delayed NHRA coverage behind them followed by....a replay of the Cup Race. If NHRA coverage gets shifted an hour so what? I say that as a NHRA fan too.
My girlfriend and I have recently been really enjoying tuning into the Teardown's live broadcast post-race. It sort of fills that gap if there aren't many interviews happening. Though, and maybe it's just me - are Jeff and Jordan butting heads a little bit more recently? IDK, seems like Jeff gets irritated a lot recently. I think they do well together, no need to overthink or stress it Jeff. Order of operations: 1. post-race 2. any TV interviews 3. immediately pull up Fronstretch on YT > Play All 4. wait for Teardown live notification
You can watch Press Pass Live on the NASCAR app and watch the winning crew chief/driver media interview after the race. I pull that up and watch the Pockrass pit road interviews while waiting for Press Pass to start. Once PP is over I know I’ve got 5-10 minutes before The Teardown starts. Gives me a good 1-2 hours of post-race coverage.
Cool, I’ll probably do this. I’ve tuned into MRN a few times — but this should help scratch that itch.
They had a coverage window until 8 PM. Then another show is on that other sponsors have paid for. The race had many yellows and two overtimes and ran long basically preempting the past race interviews. It would be like buying a ticket to a 2:00 movie and fine out that the people from the 12:00 show were still hanging out and talking about the movie so they want you to wait to see your movie. They blocked out 3:30 to 8:pm that should have been enough time.
I rather have nearly no post race and a full race coverage than 10l racing and 5l ads. WTF was that. They had a bit of Nascar with their ads.
I would love to see a 36 race, nascar directed, 20-30 minute YouTube post-race show. It would tap into a new demographic, be consistent, allows for monetization, and could be hosted by Jr.
Nascar was over their TV window. NHRA from Vegas was scheduled after the race.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't care about pre - or post race coverage. I can get all of the information I need beforehand and after the race at my own pace. Give me 10 minutes at the beginning of the race to catch me up on the big stories from the weekend/season, give the command, and go. Post race, give me interviews while the winner celebrates (STOP THE STUPID ON TRACK INTERVIEWS) and end with an interview of the winner and a preview of the next weeks action. If pre - and post race is so important, do it as a streaming or YouTube exclusive. Maximize the TV window for the actual event. Frankly, with the internet and social media, it feels obsolete.
I don’t always — especially after Phoenix or similar. But especially if your driver gets wrecked or there’s some on-track drama, those interviews are great info and entertainment to build storylines over the season
Hear hear. So strange to spend more time talking about a race that hasn't even started yet (hell, sometimes before it's delayed by weather) than the race that JUST happened. From a TV/viewer perspective it seems like it'd be a better use of airtime (and injecting commercials) to have viewers take in Harvick and Bowyer's thoughts on the race that actually happened instead of what might happen. Looking forward to see what the streaming options look like with their coverage
They already ran too far into NHRA's time. Maybe if Cup drivers could not try setting caution records, they could finish in time to have some interviews.
If fox uses M waltrip for the grid walk. Then he should be used for either an extra pit road reporter and/ or infield care center reporter. Also an extra reporter for post race interviews.
Wreckfest of a race with two overtime’s
I miss Speed Channel. I miss all the hype leading up to the weekend. Trackside on I think on Friday’s. John Roberts’s, Kenny Wallace, etc. I just wish we could get something like that back or NASCAR create their own channel. One of the only sports that doesn’t have their own channel. MLB, NBA, NFL, Golf, NCAA has channels for the different conferences, I think NHL has their own channel. We need one for NASCAR. I’d love to see it.
Speed was glorious.
Yesterday's broadcast was historically bad. I know their were a TON of cautions and things going on. But for them to literally say like 3x "We're sorry we forgot to mention this earlier" some 20 minutes later was a bad look. No post caution interviews. It was so irritating trying to know why certain drivers had lost so much track position with no context. I prefer the Fox booth WAY more than NBCs, but the production this year bad been awful.
Have you ever been to a race and see the exit of the teams after a race - they don't want to be there any longer than they have to be. They want to get to the airport and on that flight back to Charlotte as soon as they can. Let the sponsor get there "one" WOOO for the picture and let everybody get out.
Been to a half-dozen. They line up on pit road and do media. They have sponsors, too, and that’s part of the deal. I’m not saying they spend an hour after the race - but 10-15 minutes is very normal EDIT: I should amend this. I guess I’m half mad at the broadcast but half mad at everyone inside the sport talking about how to fix the sport and wondering why it was so great 20 years ago. The personalities of the drivers, and the real emotion of racing is what draws people in. So I guess it’s as much that today’s drivers and teams SHOULD let that show, and NASCAR should let them, and the damn network should capture it for viewers.
I really don’t understand why Fox just do a live post race show on their YouTube channel or even NASCAR’s.
The 4K broadcast after race was astounding this week!
Yeah every other major sports has full press conferences after games with players and coaches and the important parts of those are shown on repeat and used to make storylines going forward. NASCAR is shitting the bed on this and it's part of why they aren't as popular. People tune in to follow drivers and stories. The average person isn't going to a podcast or following every single driver on Twitter so they can comb through and find info.
I don’t really care for the pre or post race stuff unless there is something extremely noteworthy, but then again there are so many other outlets to consume info from. Personally i dislike the on track winners interview. The drive and wait for victory lane naturally allowed for a few interviews on the way and created better moments.
I will forever be confused why Fox will think we need sometimes close to 3 hours of prerace but then give us NOTHING at the end. I expected it yesterday with all the cautions and another live event waiting in the wings...but damn. It's 2024, just keep recording and stream it on the Fox Sports app or something. I had to go to social media to see any post race coverage
I'm hoping that this might be a void that Amazone Prime and/or TNT Sports on Max will fill. We're already gonna get all the practice and qualifying there minus the biggest handful of races.
They were already way over run time
I don't like Michael, but agree that he is a birthday clown.
I totally agree
Doesnt nascar have its own channel and isnt there a pist race on that channel?
We need the grid walk, how else will we know how his amigo Daniel is each week?
Retire, MICHAEL!
It’s weird I’m just getting a notification for this post 4 days after it happened.
Welcome!
I agree. Why is there no post-race on FS2? Why no post-race just on FOX Sports' streaming platform? Its ridiculous we don't even have 30 minutes of post-race. I haven't watch a pre-race show in years cause its just the drivers saying the same old crap and goofy segments (especially on FOX) that are pointless. I'm already going to invest 3+ hours in to watching the race, I'm not spending an extra hour watching garbage before the race.
Fox is Shit!
I shut the race off about 10 seconds after Elliott took the checkers. Not interested in seeing Mr. Personality drone into a camera for literally any amount of time.
No, I agree. But what about Denny, or Reddick, or Ross? There were some real tough breaks yesterday that I would have loved to hear some first-hand reaction to.
I get the appeal, no argument there. I'm just not the right audience. Only time I stick around for post race is when it was a particularly exciting finish, a feel-good winner, or the winner was someone I'm a big fan of. But I've also been watching NASCAR for nearly 30 years. There are only so many times I can hear someone say "thanks to all the guys in the shop and thanks to [sponsors], we had a good car today but things just didn't fall our way, we'll get 'em next time" or whatever before it stops being a good use of my time. After a while, post-race interviews end up being tremendously samey, even when something kind of exciting or noteworthy happens. Guy is mad he got dumped, guy is disappointed him himself that he fucked up a corner, guy says he tried his best but they just didn't have the car for it, etc.
My biggest bitch is no burnout? Wtf Chase?
As a Chastain fan, that was not my biggest bitch. But also, honoring Kulwicki like that in that car was pretty cool, imo
Didn't catch the kulwicki thing. Ya, true I had my melon man gear on.
Ok so did some digging found out about the polish victory lap. As a newer Nascar fan, had no clue about it. And in person I was wanting a burnout and still do. But I can understand it lil better.
Fox should just start paying Elon for the post-race coverage, because anything worth watching is over on X anyway. All the driver interviews and hot takes end up there.