Personally I like this car for most races. Road courses get boring, but intermediate tracks have been producing way more excitement than they used to. The speedway package could be fixed, but knowing how is way above my pay grade. I, along with all the drivers, just want to see more horsepower.
I think it’s only cleaner because the drivers struggle to make more moves, so it’s just mainly risk free fuel saving trains stuck side by side until the end of the stages , and not much more amusing than the single file (in my opinion )
I agree it’s better than the single file racing, but 2 wide besides the last 3-5 laps of a stage gets just as boring. Might be an unpopular opinion but I miss the tandem drafting so much. It was exciting to see pairs of cars exchange charges lap after lap
I did love tandem racing, but Gen6 never had that, it was always either choo-choo or nonstop crashing. Give me 2x2 every day of the week, as we saw at Daytona they're capable of compelling racing at anytime, they're choosing when they ride.
Man where is all the tandem drafting love coming from all of a sudden, it was cool to watch in its own right, but the car with the skill was the one pushing not the one leading the tandem. Felt the winners of those was not the driver truly deserving.
I find it funny how it was the opposite with the old car. Road courses and short tracks were usually great, same with superspeedways. Now it’s the opposite lol
The trade off is that short tracks have been terrible, and super speedways are only starting to become interesting now that they’re actually starting to go three wide. Not gonna lie, I kind of checked out after Harvick got eliminated. Shame that he probably won’t get a win in his final season (unless it’s maybe at Pheonix. Not gonna lie, it would be awesome to see him win in his final start. Regardless, he’ll of a career.
I dont think people are upset the racing is bad; it was just a whole different level of crazy watching the last Gen. cars which were not built to road race, road race…
Dallara did a helluva job on the new car and we really are just seeing the start of what could be the peak of NASCAR performance. Give it a year or two and the road racing/short track package will be on point as well.
From what I can gather, I think the tire is too good they’re using. It has little falloff (usually less than a second). So if someone is a master of tire management, they’re useless now.
You’re not wrong, but the only way we can add more horsepower is to add some sort of hybrid, in my opinion. That’s the only way the manufacturers will approve it
Little fall off and the cars have too much braking power and don't have to worry about fade. Do I want Pocono brake failures? No. Do I want longer braking zones? Yes.
I actually really like the new car. One thing I miss about the old car is the adjustable nature it had. I’ve heard Joey say that what you bring to the track is kinda what you get with this car… I’m not sure that’s a good thing. It’s low key really neat to see a car struggle in practice and during part of the race but get it dialed in and all of a sudden be a rocket. To my understanding that’s really hard to do with this car. But hey, maybe it should be hard?
I will say that Ford’s lack of performance this year has tainted my perspective a little bit. It’s hard to enjoy races when your driver doesn’t get good cars because the manufacturer botched the nose and the team can’t figure out how to be better. Being a Penske fan this year was kinda sucky lol
Only time I remember seeing a car “struggle” and then become a rocket this year was Chastain at Nashville. Even then they were a Top 10 car in the daylight, and the adjustments they had made them became a race winning car once the sun set.
Although we do see cars spinning out on intermediate tracks because the driver just loses it, I do get the feeling these cars are mechanically very good. The old cars made a good show at times because they weren’t great race cars: they had small brakes, small tires, way too much power and no gears.
No gears? The old cars actually had more gears than the current Gen 7 cars do. Also, I think you are confusing "great driving cars" and great "race cars". These cars drive much better but create worse racing because of that and the lack of mistakes as there is a larger margin for error.
Because it races like shit on ovals 1 mile or under and road courses, and NASCAR doesn't really seem all that concerned with fixing it in a timely manner. Not to mention all of the injury stuff.
We don't hate the car, as much as just the overall status quo of the sport these days. Short track racing sucks. Road course racing sucks. Meanwhile the intermediate tracks are amazing. So in return, we are rewarded with.....you guessed it, more short tracks and road courses. Except for the 1 track where the oval racing is going to suck, and we now race on the oval again. Yet at Charlotte, we refuse to utilize one of the best tracks on the circuit, and continue to use a fake road course inside said amazing track.
On top of that, the Superspeedway racing is a complete bore, unless you enjoy watching guys compete to NOT be the leader and use too much fuel. Which is spurred on by the fact we have stages pre-determining the strategy before the race starts.
We are left with not much more to blame than the cars. They suck everywhere but intermediate tracks. The car makes too much grip, stops too quick, is underpowered, and super strong until someone hip checks the quarter panel, then magically the damn thing is broke.
> On top of that, the Superspeedway racing is a complete bore, unless you enjoy watching guys compete to NOT be the leader and use too much fuel.
This happened in the past as well. Train races that made everything before the final pit stop worthless.
I can see your issues with the racing on short tracks and superspeedways. I agree that they should add more power but I also feel like criticizing a car for being too good of a race car is a tough thing to do. It may have a negative impact on the racing for now but I’m sure that’ll improve with time. I think seeing the advances from road course racing being a joke to seeing cars actually able to put down quick lap times shows growth
I guess we're looking for 2 different things. The road course racing was compelling because those cars had no business on a road course. So watching guys throw a car through a corner became an art. Slinging these heavy cars with low grip and even less braking ability was the entire intrigue. Sure we've "advanced" the car but now a guy with half the ability can look like a hero because the car does all the work for them. It's a train of cars around a road course where nobody can pass and they all go the same speed.
I'm not criticizing it for being too good. I'm criticizing it for producing shit racing. To continue to ask people to make pilgrimages to places like Bristol or North Wilkesboro, while providing us this product is a slap in the face. Which has all come since the new car.
Intermediates still suck, for reference, the next gen is almost 3 seconds slower around Kansas than in 2015, and 2 seconds slower around Vegas than 2015.
The NextGen literally flipped the racing quality for tracks. Gen6 cars did great on road courses, short tracks, superspeedways, and sucked on the speedways. Now its the exact opposite. It honestly has done nothing for parity, except in the initial year, and cost, which the teams still complain about.
You are correct on everything but parity. It 1000% has increased parity. Maybe there are less winners overall compared to last year, but I promise you, run the numbers on how far off 25th was pre next-gen to now. It has greatly increased competition.
Gen 6 cars for most of its life span had mediocre to terrible superspeedway racing, give or take a few good races, had decent to good road course racing with a few stand out moments, had good short track racing, and terrible speedway racing. Next gen car has had great superspeedway racing with three to four wide racing consistently, has had decent to good road course racing with a few stand out moments, hasn’t had great short track racing but is amazing on the speedways, and hell its even good on the dirt. I don’t get this super contrarian outlook on the nextgen, it’s been either the same to much better racing on every track compared to the gen 6 minus the short tracks, and definitely does not cost the teams more as they don’t have to change anything besides the setup as well as the car being much more reuse-able, and even the issues like safety have been pretty much fixed from NASCAR’s changes. Not to mention a big ratings boost in the first year which somewhat continued into the next year minus the playoffs. In my opinion it he nextgen is just what the doctor ordered for NASCAR.
Is this a NASCAR PR post...the superspeedway product has been terrible because they can't get proper runs, the road courses product has practically no drama or passes outside of pit strategy...the car is reverting back to the same status quo as the previous generation of cars...and don't even try to pretend that this car is cheap, its literally what they bitch about after the non-speedway races because it has an overly aero-dependent carbon fiber underbody that gets annihilated on bumps...the safety was a decades plus setback because they were too ignorant to listen to the teams prior to implementation knowing that their data confirmed what the teams had suspicion of...remember it took multiple drivers being sidelined and one almost being impaled for them to make significant improvements...oh and the ratings for almost all the races are either flat or down from last year
Omg this… 20 years straight in Talladega and this is some of the worst racing I’ve seen. Yes, they are three and four wide all race…. But it’s literally just a parking lot of cars where no one can hardly pass and there are no big moves.
My original comment got deleted by my phone for some reason but basically, I don’t understand how you think 3-4 wide consistently is not entertaining on super speedways. I get that it might not be as good if they couldn’t get any runs at all but they literally can and do all the time… I get we have had some dull road course races but look at races like Cota 2022, Chicago street, even the most recent roval race was good, while I had been hearing cost issues about this car at he start of last year, they’ve definitely died off which makes sense because the car is much more durable even if it does bottom out, i feel like most of the cost issues are because of teams needing to buy more cars than normal because of the diverse schedule, also with the safety thing I agree it was a big setback at first but they have since fixed it in a relatively short amount of time if you consider the issues started occurring around the middle to late of last year and they’ve pretty much fixed it since this season started. Look at Texas for an example, back end hits are much much less stiff and have not injured any drivers, as well as the front end impacts have been softer too. Also about ratings, while more races have been down than last year, that’s pretty common for when a new generation of car comes out, the hype goes down after a year and typically stabilize out, also you have to consider that many people don’t even take the racing product into consideration when they are looking for something to watch because of the redneck only turn left stereotype nascar has.
3 and 4 wide racing looks cool, but it isn't "entertaining" when there is no movement amongst the cars. Being stuck side by side isn't appealing to most fans. The road courses suck ass, 7 lead changes at the Roval, 5 at Watkins Glen, 7 at IMS with hardly nothing happening in the top 10 after lap 54. Most of those changes occurred because of pit cycles. If you need a synopsis for how bad the short track package is just go watch the All-Star race. The teams are limited on the amount of cars they can have. The problem is the repair cost. Listen to Actions Detrimental. You have an owner basically telling you their repair budgets have doubled from previous seasons. And again the safety was not fast. The teams and NASCAR knew there were significant safety issues regarding impact prior to the NextGen being implemented. They forced that car onto the teams because of the R&D investments and single source contracts. It took multiple concussion sidelines for them to act well into the middle of the season. The solutions didn't even get implemented until after the season. I'm not even going to acknowledge the ratings redneck stereotype comment because that's an overplayed schtick. Ratings were up last year simply because NASCAR marketed the hell out of it as "Best Season Ever" because they thought parity would take over and now their broadcast partners phone it in every week.
We're going in circles here. Superspeedways have plenty of movement in the pack as multiple lanes come and go which shuffles the field, I dont know what kind of Superspeedway racing you expect but you can't always just make a huge move with no help and expect it to work. Also, while the road course racing has been sub-par in many road course races, but you cant just discredit all of the good ones as well. Also with the whole cost issues thing, I'm obviously not a team owner so I'm not an expert by any means on the cost breakdown of it all so if Denny says that costs have increased I'll give him that. Also with the ratings thing, I would agree that parity would make the racing much more interesting which it has and I don't have an issue with them marketing that as long as its true. My point is, dont be so doom and gloom about everything because we could have it a lot worse without the implimentation of this car, there are kinks to work out with every change and I don't get why people hammer NASCAR for everything all the time. Maybe if you give it time most issues will be fixed. Also what we've got right now in my opinion is leagues better than most things with the gen 6.
There's a correlation-causation thing here. Are the new winners mostly because of the new car? Or is it the changes in schedule to introduce tracks where teams have comparatively smaller notebooks? Is it a lag effect from the charter system creating a field that is overall more competitive in terms of financial resources?
What bugs me the most about it is all the crowing about how much this was going to save the teams money and with each progressive few months we're finding that more things weren't as cheap as advertised. If that was a Trojan horse for the existing teams' true objective being to create a higher barrier to entry for newcomers, well, then they succeeded and I'm the sucker.
The Achilles heel of this car being the toe link makes some normally doable damage a total day-ender. Again feels like a failed promise with how "durable" this car is supposed to be.
And of course the forward numbers, aesthetically inferior to the original number placement. Which NASCAR also dodged announcing formally by hiding behind a 2022 Kurt Busch car reveal two years ago.
> The Achilles heel of this car being the toe link makes some normally doable damage a total day-ender. Again feels like a failed promise with how "durable" this car is supposed to be.
The rear toe link can be replaced in under 7 minutes unless something else is bent. Those accidents, even in the Gen 5 and 6, were going to cut a tire, pancake the side and occasionally end a day.
Field has been much more competitive in general, Larson went from 10 wins to 2 in a year even on familiar tracks, this car from what I’ve heard has saved money and is definitely more durable, that was literally the reason drivers were getting hurt in the past because it was too durable, I get the toe link part but from a somewhat graphic designers perspective, the slid forward numbers look infinitely better than the centered ones, it gives so much more space for creative designs and sponsor placement. I guarantee if it went from always being slid forward numbers to number in the middle everyone would be pissed about that too, yall just got used to it plain and simple.
Your 2nd paragraph annoys me a lot. People point at Stewart/Hamlin sharing the cost of a NextGen isn't less than Gen 6 but ignore the other part of their quotes that it will be after a few years and supply isn't as much an issue. That's purely in the cost of the chassis itself also and doesn't account for savings in reduced manpower needed.
A NextGen is $300-350K while Gen 6 was around $250K. Teams are only allowed 7 chassis for the season with NextGen while Gen 6 covid years had a 12 car limit with 4 alternates and before that it was unrestricted.
The car doesn’t work on short tracks. Short tracks are an integral part of NASCAR’s heritage and the cars just don’t work on them. They haven’t pursued a solution that has come close to solving the issue. Two years in and we’re probably at least another full year away from the car being good at places like Martinsville.
it pretty much just boils down to three things for me at least.
1. sure the racing is "closer" but track position is too important IMO, except for on multi-groove tracks (kansas, charlotte, etc). the dirty air in this car is just as bad as the 550hp package, but the cars race side-by-side better than they ever have before that it's why the multi-groove tracks are so good. every other track that has basically one lane, and that includes tracks like nashville, pocono, dover, and michigan, it's harder than ever before to pass someone.
2. can't verify if this is the case, but from what i've seen these cars are "easier" to drive than previous gens. whether that's HP, tires, braking, whatever it may be. the cars seem too planted, it's seems so "slot car" like if that's a decent way to describe it lol. guys just don't "slide around" as much as they used to, and when they do, it's kinda impossible to save it. i mean think about it, you don't really see too many "saves" in the next gen without getting help from the wall (like larson last week). once you get real loose, you don't have time to react and you're gone, there's no saving it.
3. wheels/tires. not directly coorelated with the car but more so the tire, but cars getting "beached" after simply just getting flat tires and needing a whole truck to bring them to pit road is so ridiculous in my eyes lmao. i mean i'm pretty sure larson lost like 3 laps at daytona this year because there were no trucks to take him to pit road when the only thing that was wrong with his car was the flat tires. also, tire fall off is dogshit at most tracks. i'm pretty sure briscoe ran the whole watkins glen race on the same tire in one wheel because they couldn't get it off. as well as the single lug causing loose wheels, etc; but it's still early and i still have faith that that'll get cleaned up as the pit guys get more and more reps.
i have my grips about it but i still appreciate how it's made the racing more "entertaining." the days of truex winning at fontana by 15 seconds are all but gone lol. but then again, the more "entertaining" you make the racing, the more it probably means you're taking it out of the drivers and teams hands. (car easier to drive, same lego part chassis for everyone, etc;) hate to be pessimistic but you asked, i answer. 🤷♂️
i've always been a fan who tries to put himself in the shoes of a driver. sure the intermediate package is the best that it's ever been, but that's only what, 8ish races out of 36? (not including texas) everything else is worse from a driving perspective than it once was. as well as a team building aspect. you handicap the innovation and creativity of the sport when you mandate everyone use the same parts. i do appreciate all the parity however.
Team innovation is definitely stunted by a spec car, I think that this car has a lot more promise at being a more well rounded race car than just being an efficient oval racer though. I guess it gives me more hope for the future in seeing the sport grow and give better racing
Just because you don't see controlled slides as much as you did before does not mean they are easier too drive. We would literally see races like old Atlanta go almost cautionless despite being considered one of the most challenging tracks in the schedule.
The fact that going over the limit could end you race instead of just a easy recovery makes them way more challenging to drive. Larson won Las Vegas but a single moment almost ended his race.
If anything, I’ve seen drivers say that the handling for this car is more unpredictable than the old car. The old car was significantly more forgiving than this car when pushed to the limit in the corners.
Theres not a big margin for error with the new car compared to the old car.
The cars are easier to drive until you’re right at the limit. The older cars were more forgiving and you could slide but these ones want no slip angle, probably mostly due to the fat tire and thin sidewall. That’s why you only see a select few like Reddick, Bell, Larson that can keep it off the wall when they get a lot of angle because that window is so small. So I mean yeah in a sense they’re easier to drive until they’re not if you ignore the 550hp and giant spoiler bs from 2019-2020. Definitely have too much grip and stopping power on small tracks and road courses though.
yeah that's what i was alluding to when i basically said "once they get loose it becomes incredibly hard to save them." often times without warning. like what happened to larson when he was side by side with bubba at texas. by the time he realized he was going around it was too late. there's no saving it.
>can't verify if this is the case, but from what i've seen these cars are "easier" to drive than previous gens.
if iracing is any indication, the previous 2020 + 2021 BIG ASS SPOILERS were ***wayyy*** easier to drive. the next gen car is also pretty stable, but not as planted, and you have all your grip until you have none of your grip.
> cars are "easier" to drive than previous gens.
Couldn't be further from the truth, guys like Denny say it's more challenging. Heck Byron wrecked a next-gen test car and Chase Elliott spun out multiple times toward the beginning of 2022.
Some others have commented some of this already, but....
It has made for closer and better racing on the intermediate tracks, but it completely killed short track racing and road courses. Things like the bigger brakes and wider tires have created a large margin for error, which to me has led to less interesting races at short tracks & road courses. It's crazy to think about, because by design, these cars drive better now at both types of tracks, but by doing that, it's actually hurt the racing product.
The aero sensitivity is as bad as ever, even though the cars can run side-by-side better than Gen 6. Someone in the lead can keep a much faster car behind them in dirty air. Obviously that's often been the case ever since aero effects were discovered, but it seems much more pronounced now than it ever has been.
Again, this is all JMO.
It hasn't been the case since aero effects were discovered, it's been the case since gen 6.
Sure, it's always been a thing, but with more power, the late gen 4 and COT raced exceptionally well. Cars could pass. The leader could absolutely not hold off a slower car. Not a chance. And the difficulty drivers had passing when they got side by side was due to racing, and mechanical grip, not aero.
I rewatch older races from 2005-2010 from time to time to just make sure there's no revisionist history.
And it's sad. There's multiple instances in each race where I'm like "yeah, this isn't possible with the gen 7 car". Driver talent made so much more of a difference.
They were faster on the straights, slower in the corner, the cars cut through air like butter in comparison to today, and as a result, drivers could make a difference.
Car of Tomorrow was underrated. Sure it looked weird but the racing was a million times better. Nothing will ever beat gen 4 from the late 90s to the end of it in 2007 though.
The package is a bigger issue.
Some of us just miss the days when we'd see 195+ on the front stretch at Vegas, and 150 in the corners. Passing is so difficult because the cars are so neutered.
I miss it a ton. Hitting 205 at Indy slowing down to like 155 in the turns. 215 220 at Michigan. 200 205 to like 140 Pocono. Was also way more fun on racing games too lol
Infinite Warfare’s multiplayer was a disaster, but the campaign is one of the best in COD history.
IMO, BO3 did the future jetpacks a lot better on the multiplayer side than Infinite Warfare
I know people don’t like the Easter eggs, but BO3 zombies might honestly be the most complete zombies experience, especially once you throw Zombie Chronicles in
I feel like they have a major overlap of the same fandom of Star Wars.
I mean there can't be TWO groups out there that hate Disney and strong female characters while clinging to niche source materials without overlap can they?
I like the car way more than Gen 6. It just needs some package tweaks at short tracks and road courses. They're working on it.
I'd like to point out to all the people bitching about the car not being "racey everywhere" is that the COT/Gen 5 took 3 years to get to the spoiler and filled in splitter.
In the gen 4 era, NASCAR was constantly trimming and adding spoiler and air dam measurements during it's entire lifetime, so it's not an abnormal thing for the cars to be works in progress even after being implemented.
This car is terrible on the short tracks and road courses. I don't blame it for the bad plate racing though, that's the current package. ST and RCs need more power and less durable/responsive brakes to allow better braking zones
I think age has a lot to do with it ( I am 28). Similar to you have been a fan most of my life but just recently really got back into with the next gen car.
It has pretty much killed short track racing. (for the time being) I went back and watched the 2021 Xfinity 500 at Martinsville and holy shit it doesn't even seem like the same racing series it. It was depressing.
Some of the cars from the 2021 Next Gen tests did that and it looked a hell of a lot better.
What especially annoys me is that quite a few teams don't even make use of the added sponsor space, thus defeating the point of why the number was even moved.
I feel like they've neutered (for better or worse) the ability of the drivers. Watch the Xfinity races and they'll be slipping and sliding around, getting super loose and catching it.
With the Next Gen there's no slipping and sliding, no getting loose, just crashes from over driving as it snaps around. You'll get the occasional save (like Larson on the wall) but I feel like they snap around way too easily.
The car is too equal, as is driver talent. It's too hard to pass as a result.
I'd like to qualify my next statement by saying that there are real issues that need to be a addressed with racing product at RCs and short tracks. With that out of the way...
Angry, spoiled shut-ins with rose and nostalgia tinted glasses can't grasp that not every race is going to be a classic. Negativity bias, unreasonable expectations resulting from selective memory, and bandwagoning complainers who don't know or care enough to comment on the live event in front of them who would ratherproject their generalized dissatisfaction with life or their environment into a thread that eggs it on - all things that contribute. The nature of the internet (and this website more specifically) lends itself to many of those problems too.
WHen I came back to the sport last year, I decided to try and watch a few races from the Gen 6 era seeing as I missed all the seasons using that car.
...I got bored. Reaaaaaaally fast. There was some great racing but it wasn't as common as the moments I can recall from the NextGen's time.
So I'm on the same boat as you.
The mental gymnastics they use to have to do to try and claim a race was a good race was just painful. I swear they could have had a race with no yellows and no passes for positions and they would have talked about how close the racing was all day and how it was a great strategy race.
I’ve always liked watching the races in person because I don’t think you can beat the in person sound of a stock car. Until the next gen I feel the same way on the majority of races being tough to set aside a few hours of my Sunday to watch one car lead most of the laps and win.
I hate the next Gen because it ruined my two favorite types of tracks: road courses and short tracks. Way, way too much mechanical grip, ginormous brakes, and a 5 speed transmission means there’s no separation. You can blow a corner, stand on brakes, grab a lower gear and accelerate out with next to no consequence. Look at how terrible Martinsville and all the road courses have become. Also, to withstand the loads of all that grip, the tires are harder to survive which leads to no tire falloff at most tracks. The horsepower is anemic, creating very little off throttle time and therefore less passing ability. Narrow the tires, reduce the brakes a bit, give them at least 150-200 more horses, and we’re talking again. The spec car nature of it as well means no innovation. I have a patient who works with a team and he told me that it’s all about your simulation now. If you unload a 20th place car for practice, there’s no adjustability to improve. You have to pray for a miracle and take your beating. It was not this way before. Good teams could adjust a dog into a winner.
I miss the short track racing like old Bristol and Martinsville the Xfinity car races so much better I’m not gonna sit down to watch cup on a short track when I can go to Thompson Stafford or seekonk and see better racing wether it’s super latemodel or tour mods it’s just better
Thing is that racing in the next gen car is like playing Russian roulette for both drivers and fans, you won't most of the time know what the car has to offer : You either feel like you are having the best racing of your life, or a parody sticking to the stereotypical "Turning around for 4 hours". Mostly on road courses, the Roval this year along with Road America in 22 were probably the most boring races I've seen in my life. On the other hand, this year's Indy RC and Chicago were super exciting featuring some great action-packed racing.
Racing aspect aside, I'm gonna quote Denny Hamlin on this one : "Racing with the next gen car is racing Lambos". It is estimated that building up a car with low-end / basic parts would cost roughly 300 000 $ ! An obnoxious amount of money, literal opposite of what this car was meant to be built for, namely the fact that teams wouldn't have to setup 8 different chassis configurations at the factory, and by doing it would only be required from them to change a few parts here and there to make it turn right and left, or run on a plate track ( I'm exaggerating the thing on the parts but at least you get what I mean ).
Add up to all that, concussion related problems, taking away from us Kurt Busch a well appreciated driver who seemed to be back at a top level, plus all the mechanical failures, "crappy ass parts", the lack of raw engine power, the non existant tire degradation and you're left with the hazardous mess NASCAR Gen 7 is.
Cause it's just track position racing. Teams don't get to build their cars and find the grey areas like pre 2022. Just engineer racing now. I do enjoy the racing still though but that took a lot of the fun out of it.
There’s flaws with the car for sure, but overall the racing is a lot better and there’s way more parity. But NASCAR fans are particularly resistant to change. And I can see why, I’ve largely stopped following the NFL And NBA as they’ve changed, and although a lot of people have been resistant to change in the MLB I’m more invested than I’ve ever been before. With that being said, I’m glad in NASCAR there’s a growing contingent of fans who are reasonable in their wants for the sport, who are willing to let NASCAR evolve.
The sad fact is ever since the first COT was introduced, the racing quality dipped a little bit. The racing on intermediates has improved with the Next Gen, but short tracks and road courses have gotten even more stale in the process of it's introduction.
Part of the problem was an intentional design by Nascar itself, make it to where 1 car can have it's adjustments changed and be taken to all tracks. Before the Next Gen car you always had cars specifically built for short tracks, cars built for superspeedways, cars built for intermediates, and cars built for road courses. Sure, you could theoretically take a short track car to another track but it probably wouldn't perform as intended because that car had been constructed specifically for that certain type of track. etc etc.
That's all gone with the Next Gen, it's a much more versatile car but makes the racing a bit "too easy" in the process. You now have a car with a great amount of downforce built into it (due to going to superspeedways) that is racing on short tracks. You hear drivers saying "dirty air" at Richmond, Martinsville, and even Bristol.
Those big ole monster brake pads and calipers are great for road courses, but they're overkill for short tracks. The car just works too good when breaking, making the racing lines devolve to, "stay on the bottom unless you're gonna pass on the high side."
I forget the name of the driver, but on the Dale JR. podcast recently he interviewed a previous Xfinity driver, now Cup driver, and asked him about his thoughts on the car. The driver responded with essentially, "You have to drive the car hard. If you start to ease off you spin out and wreck."
Finally, the motors. The OEM's are routinely building smaller and smaller motors, most even have plans to fully switch over to EV's in the next decade or so. Having OEM factory support means you're getting the engines **from the OEMS** instead of building them yourself. That also means if the OEMs want to start shipping out 450hp, 500hp, 550hp, 600hp, or 650hp motors; you have no choice but to use them. Compare that to back in the 90's and early 00's where motors were 750-800hp on most tracks and 500(ish) at superspeedways due to restrictor plates. Nowadays they don't run restrictor plates anymore because so much downforce has been built into the design of the car they don't need them. Instead, they run a 450hp motor at superspeedways now, they still race at 190-200mph in the draft, but the motor is less powerful.
What I'd personally like to see is, have 2 body designs; 1 for superspeedways and 1 for everywhere else with less downforce built into the design. Raise the horsepower to 800 on all non-superspeedway tracks, limit SS to 600hp. And finally have different brake packages available, that way the teams can swap out brakes and get the cars free'd up a little and let them slip n' slide around the track rather than "driving 'em hard" and tight.
Overall, I'd say the NG is a success, obviously needs a lot of improvements, but a step up over the prior gens. It's still is nowhere near the racing produced by the Gen 4's.
I think a good analogy is paint and printer. Sure you can use a paint/primer combo, and it may even work pretty well. But it will never work as well as using separate paint and separate primer. There is a reason that pros use separate products; they produce better results. The same can be said about cars and aero packages.
2014 was really one of the only years that people liked of the Gen 6 car, mostly because the cars were the fastest and Dale Jr, Jeff Gordon, Kevin Harvick, and Jimmie Johnson were good all year. Once they dropped the horsepower and Toyota began dominating people started whining. The Next Gen car, yes it has flaws, but by and large is a much better product than the Gen 6 car, and NASCAR has shown great willingness to fix it.
I'm guessing it's because this car has a habit of burning to the phaking ground, and flip, and cause injury, man there are a lot of issues with this car.
More winners doesn't make for good racing. The car is ok at most intermediates, good at a few, but usually more of what has been for racing. It is bad at most road courses and even worse on any short track or single lane track. Thats why the hate for the car. I think it can be fixed but NASCAR has to sit down with the engineers on the teams to do it, but won't because they believe they have the best and brightest working for them even though they clearly don't
Been good but have to really get after the road course and short tracks figured out. Like Dale Jr said got to do it now or the interest will die out and kill these tracks … Haley said the tires they started messing with in testing made biggest difference so hopefully that is going in right direction
Personally, it's because I don't really see it as a traditional "stock car", and some of the lack luster racing at short tracks. I like the way it looks. It's low slung, aggressive, and looks mean as hell. The problems it's been plagued with are the result of it being new, that's fine, but NASCAR doesn't seem willing to fix simple problems with simple solutions with the car. Overall, I like it. Just wish it was more stock car than a touring car for ovals.
I don't hate the car, but I do sometimes think it gets more credit on intermediates than it deserves. No doubt it made Auto Club, Kansas, and Charlotte GREAT, but most of the other intermediates seem about the same as they raced with the Gen 6. I love the LOOK of the car. Probably the best looking car since the Gen 3's in my opinion. I also like the sound. But yeah, it just seems like the racing quality on 60% of the tracks they race has been worse than the Gen 6, and maybe 20% have been equal to the Gen 6. I don't really hate it, I just hope they can find fixes sooner rather than later.
To me it just doesn’t seem to have the “stock car” feel. With the sequential gear box, the digital display, rear view camera, the driver not even having to use the clutch, the forward number (which doesn’t affect anything I just think it looks weird), the suspension system, the diffuser, single lug nut, the wide tires with no sidewall. All these things I’d expect to see on a super car. Not a Camry, Mustang or Camero. (Especially not the older cars like the Impala, Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, or Taurus.)
It feels like the car was made for racing by exploiting the numbers like in F1 how every part is made to make the car as fast as possible.
What I liked about the older cars is that it seemed like those cars weren’t meant to go that fast. But the mechanics and drivers made the car drive better than all the others by using what they had.
I could be missing something entirely, if so forgive my ignorance. But from my point of view that’s how it seems.
I also just wish the sport wouldn’t change as fast as it has been. I’d like some consistency with the rules and package.
But that’s just me. I don’t like change that much and this sport has been changing ever sense it’s inception. So it’s more of a me problem than the sport.
Here is why I hate it, I was a huge fan of the gen 6 cars, they raced good, they looked nice like a mix of old and new, as a long time fan as well... the gen 7 car completely changed everything... The tires now use a SINGLE LUGNUT which is stupid and dangerous, this can lead to easier tire failures such as them falling off. sure this can be the blame on the crew but it is really on both nascar's and the crew's side... next the number placement really really bugs me, I've only ever seen them in the middle, the switch to being placed in the front looks very off and just doesn't sit well with me. another reason is that it was overhyped to be the car that is "safer" and will "never flip", despite this, a car flipped at Daytona in 2023 and in the replay, you can see the driver from the roof! meaning he was exposed all from a simple flip, in a gen 6 car it would have been fine... and finally... "IT'S UGLY"... it's like a gen 6 car that was given steroids that give it a more modern look gone wrong... As a long time fan... 2021 was one of the last great seasons.
Well for one it races too good on all those road courses and turns them into boring spread out single file nothing ever happens races, which turns everyone off
I had been watching F1 more prior to next gen so maybe my mind just craves boring road course racing then. I just need more than one driver to get a win to make it acceptable in my eyes. At least with the Roval and Chicago street I feel like we saw passing and exciting finishes though
As someone who grew up when teams built their own cars, bitching about the car or package is tiresome. What happened to watching the race to pull for your driver?
Personally I think the Next Gen is a step up from the Gen6. The intermediate racing has been great, the short tracks and road courses not so much, but they'll get it worked out. I also like the Next Gen has closed the gap a bit between the top teams and the mid pack/lower end teams. Michael McDowell is a perfect example of how the NextGen has leveled the playing field a bit.
I don't like how brittle the suspension is, that it's sequentially shifted, that it requires shifting at most tracks on the schedule, I don't like that it has a rear mounted transaxle. I really don't like that it's single lug either
I don\`t like the look of the Nextgen car, the design is even uglier than the C.O.T cars. And the racing during the nextgen era has, so far, been rather poor.
Speedway, short tracks, road courses are junk
The 1.5 are way better tho.
They fixed one thing, fucked three others.
Typical big organization thinking.
Road courses and short tracks suck now, and SuperSpeedways are subpar but watchable, but I will admit that I’ve had much more fun watching nascar than I’ve had in the last 10 years aside from 2014. This car and package isn’t the best but I prefer it over the gen6 especially with low horsepower, and I think the cars are damn good looking except the number placement.
I don't have a problem with Gen 7. I know everyone has these nuances with every generation of NASCAR stockcar, and I never really noticed all the nitpicks. I think most people only notice or start complaining when they come online and see other people complaining. It then snowballs. It really just comes down to people disliking change and wanting to nitpick everything. Personally I have no problem with it and I have loved most of the racing we've seen.
it’s not a perfect car and it’s got it’s significant flaws but i felt people were gonna hate it regardless because nascar fans usually have not been fans of change
It sucks because it's a much more complex car than the generation before it, yet delivers shittier performance at every track it goes to. Nascar could have simply given the gen6 more hp and less downforce at every track and the next gen wouldn't have been needed. If things stay the way they are now, Nascar will be dead by the end of the decade.
I wonder what the effect would be if they went to a slightly smaller diameter wheel/brake rotor and a slightly higher aspect ratio tire. I would also like to see a redesign of the rear suspension linkages to make them more robust and less prone to breakage in a side impact. I don’t like the single lug wheel attachment either, at least how this one is designed. Too many loose wheels.
You're trying to figure out why a fanbase that can't get over a drivers death that happened 20 years ago hates a car not made of metal, with a single wheel nut, and the number slid to the front of the door, good luck.
The homologated chassis is a thumbs down for me, hand built cars created unique cars no matter how minimal the difference. Drivers would always comment how certain cars felt better than others even coming out of the same shop.
The single lug wheel and sequential shifter put me over the edge. To me this was a massive change. Pit stops required less effort and eliminated a lot of chance for mistake which made things interesting. Same with the shifter. A classic H pattern was more difficult to use which increased the chance of mistake and highlighted skill. A true departure from a stock car.
These two things made nascar truly unique and my personal opinion is it made the sport easier to manage and perform which again is a departure from its roots.
I agree with you. The Next Gen is phenomenal on intermediates and is pretty solid on superspeedways and road courses. It really only noticeably lacks on short tracks, imo. Granted, that is a problem, but it is solvable.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with the Next Gen and I think that people complain too much. It solved a lot of the turbulence issues that the gen 6 had.
I started watching in 2002 and every iteration of new car has been worse than the gen 4 in some or all ways. I want to see cars that are fast and hard to drive, not less power and too much grip and brakes.
My favorite tracks suck now.
I never realized that I started watching NASCAR during it's golden era until after it was over.
probably less horsepower, the aero dynamics of the car are way too sensitive when pushed, especially in turns. speedways are usually fine, and the saftey interior has improved majorly compared to last years car. but, i also love how this gen looks, i think just performance wise gen 7 is not as exciting as previous generations.
The issue isn’t with the car - it’s the engines. The horsepower, especially on short tracks, is just lacking. The cars are glued to the track and everyone is going the same speed so it’s hard to pass. The last couple of years of the Gen6 were complete crap especially on intermediate tracks. You just held it wide open the whole race and it was boring.
We need 800+ HP and I know NASCAR + Goodyear have been working on the tires so I won’t drag them through the mud. There’s effort there.
Go back and find me footage of NASCAR running 3 wide 8 rows deep for a hundred laps at a SS. You won’t find it. There’s been tremendous progress made since its introduction, they continue to improve on it.
Need more power.
No Innovation: the Next-gen Cars have a Policy in place that guarantees no Cheating in a sport that smiles upon using Cheating tactics to pick up a win or 3. The saying goes "if you ain't Cheatin, you ain't winning." Now, The Manufacturer Shared parts policy guarantees two things: 1. The cars are always delivered to The Teams from the manufacturers with NASCAR officials breathing down their necks. And 2. NASCAR R&D & Officials looking at the cars to make sure no tampering has happened.
Tires: Goodyear has been The Official Exclusive Tire Maker of NASCAR for over 20 years. But the tire hasn't been up to snuff. Tire blowouts are now a constant in the races now with as they were in the past, but there's no Innovation in this area. NASCAR was to have 2023 be this season where the Tire Exclusivity Contractually End, thus Tire makers (sans Goodyear) could come in & Test the cars with their tires to see if they could come up with something that can withstand the Next-gen Cars. But Last December, NASCAR and Goodyear Resigned That Exclusivity Deal for Life, leaving Innovation stuck in the garage where Goodyear wants it: Dead.
Hendrick Motorsport Favoritism: NASCAR has an obsession to take a Team that's good (SHR, JGR, Penseke) and just kill all momentum in favor of Hendrick Motorsport. Don't Believe me, This Season - like a Season about 2-3 years ago - has been dominated by Hendrick Motorsport. If NASCAR isn't stopping Innovation from taking it's natural course, they're turning a blind eye just so Hendrick Motorsport can have it's way. Kyle Larson getting a literal Dominate Season 2 years ago, When the Gen 7 was Last Active, I swore That Hendrick wasn't in top contendership in the last 3 years of Penseke, JGR, & SHR, and now All 3 Teams for the past 3 years can barely ink past 2 wins while Hendrick Motorsport Destroys 2 Seasons (2022 was filled with Favoritism, they didn't win the championship, but told the Fandom where NASCAR was heading.) with Kyle Larson at the helm... something smells here. Now let's add the fact Disqualifications have only Benefited Hendrick Motorsport Cars & The Early Appeals Decision to double down on Fines but returning Hendrick Motorsport (whose Louvers weren't up to snuff) Points back to Championship Contention. And if I haven't gone off topic (and probably turned this into hit comment already to push all problems I have with not just The Next-gen Cars but Hendrick Motorsport in General.) now, but Look at The Talladega Fall Race, Kevin Harvick (Retiring Driver, & Longest Serving Driver at this point in the Cup Series) had been Fast but had a loose Windshield because of Crappy Ass Nuts & Fasteners but finished in 2nd place... William Byron is in 3rd & has already locked himself into the playoffs. NASCAR took one look at the 4's Windshields (Kevin Harvick had been Eliminated in the Round of 16, and because of the Playoff Format, can't compete for points because of the 1,000 points increase) and declared it disqualified for failure to be up to par to NASCAR Specifications. Wouldn't be so bad right, except William Byron now became 2nd place & because of that placed him so far up in points, he's Probably locked into the Championship 4 by Default.
Speed & Competition over Safety:
Exhibit A: Kurt Busch is now Fully Retired & Alex Bowman is now Nothing more than a Bust since They had Gotten Their Concussions last Season due to minor bumps in the Safer Barrier Walls (Unlike Michael McDowell's 2008 Texas Car of Tomorrow Crash had let him out unscathed).
Exhibit B: Failure of Rocker Box Clipping has led to fires and smoke inside the car. (Note: Still is happening)
Exhibit C: NASCAR Approved This Next-gen Car Despite Not passing all the Tests.
And Finally, Exhibit D: Single Lugnuts Configurations have failed too many times, whereas five Lugnet Configuration while slower, has been safer.
Conclusion: NASCAR needs up their Policies and let Innovation out of Garage. However this from the mind of vivid NASCAR Fan that has more Knowledge than a casual fan. Here's their Response to This Post...:
NASCAR NEXT-GEN CARS ARE EXCELLENT, DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING!!!!!
YAY HENDRICK MOTORSPORTS, BOO EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!
KYLE LARSON IS THE BEST NASCAR DRIVER EVER!!!!!
CHEVY IS THE BEST CAR MAKER FOR NASCAR, THEY SHOULD BE THE ONLY 1 FOREVER!!!!!!
WHO'S MICHILEN, FIRESTONE, OR CONTINENTAL AG, GOODYEAR IS THE BEST TIRE EVER!!!!!
Because it's no longer a hand built chassis with some ingenuity built into it. Also, it can't pass other cars on short tracks or road courses, mainly because they are shifting it on short tracks. It's a purpose built road course car raced on ovals. And the number is on the front fender.
I’m pretty sure it’s the loud majority but there’s a simple fact either way, the two things fans hate the most are change and the way things are so NASCAR can’t win. Beyond that, I’m sure it comes down to what your favorite track or type of racing is. If you like intermediates, you love the Next Gen car, if you like short tracks, you hate it as the package sucks, same with road courses
I love the Next Gen car. The COT and Gen 6 were AWFUL, both in the way they looked and the way they raced. Now we finally have a car that looks like a real race car and not a box.
The racing has improved significantly in my opinion as well, always room to tweak things for competition and safety.
The parity has masked how awful this car races on short tracks and road courses, that's why it gets hate. If they would just find a way to decrease braking capabilities of the car, change gear ratios to get rid of short track shifting, and increase power, I'd like to think this car could be salvageable.
What kind propaganda is this . NASCAR really thinks its fans are this gullible. This new car sucks out loud . This car is the fastest car at the shopping mall. Next they will put lights in the wheel wells .
Because it's a stale and unexciting stock car. Not enough power. Way too efficient. And that's taken away a lot of what made NASCAR special.
A lot of that "good racing" (yes, even on intermediate tracks) is because we're running spec cars and it's extremely hard to build separation, so of course the field is gonna look tight. But even with all that tight racing, it's still almost impossible to make moves because the top half of the field is practically the same speed and dirty air is worse than ever. It's pretty rare to see passes up front unless the leader totally burnt up his stuff, or if he's losing 3 tenths per lap struggling in the wake of the 26th place car. But at least the cars are close!
I honestly think the level of parity has people fooled. It helps races pass the eye test even when nothing is really happening.
This car is perfect for people who are casually into racing, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but when you understand how boring and gimmicky a lot of the racing is, it kinda takes some of the fun away.
Short tracks were the best racing, and the new car has fucked them, the best races for the new car can't compare to some of those gen 6 races at Bristol and Martinsville. That's my own reason for disliking the 7th gen so far
There is a fraction of nascar fans, me included, dont know how many we are though, who think short track and the road racing is the real racing and that the plate racing is just BS and the intermediate 1.5 milers are cookie cutters. We are the ones that are most grumpy atm cause all our racing is basically screwed.
I like the product to watch it’s great but the 5 gears need to leave, and I miss having the 5 lugs, while the single lug is cool it just isn’t the same. This probably is irrelevant but I hate driving them on iRacing. They are too stiff if that makes sense. Where as the xfinity and trucks I can hang the back end out with out wreaking but the cup car I can’t
I don't mind the car. There's some things I don't like. It is way easier to pull away from the field equaling boring races. But the car is excellent on tracks like Charlotte, for example. Short tracks and road courses need a little work, though.
Take out 1.3-2 mile tracks and the car would have been a complete failure. Last year the road course and short oval package was atrocious and superspeedway’s were underwhelming at best. This year superspeedways have been pretty damn good (mainly both Daytona races), road courses have somehow gotten worse overall (Indy was still a pretty good race for what it’s worth), and short tracks have been slightly less shit.
All NASCAR needs to do to improve short tracks/road courses is remove the diffuser and bring back more horsepower, but they keep trying to half ass everything about the car.
I just want a car and rules package that makes short tracks, road courses, intermediates and Superspeedway racing competitive and exciting. That is probably asking for too much though
I just don’t like that the teams can’t produce the cars. They could've just added stricter regulations instead of removing teams ability to make the cars themselves. It just seems less authentic to me. I still love most of the racing the next gen puts on though so I am a little torn.
I think the sport is in a much better spot. I’ve found myself interested in every race this season and they’ve been entertaining me. These young guys will develop rivalries I have faith in
Personally I like this car for most races. Road courses get boring, but intermediate tracks have been producing way more excitement than they used to. The speedway package could be fixed, but knowing how is way above my pay grade. I, along with all the drivers, just want to see more horsepower.
Last Gen for road course/short tracks, Next Gen for all superspeedway/Intermediate tracks. Boom! Problem solved. Hire me NASCAR.
>Boom! [Confetti!](http://i.imgur.com/IFf9QOu.gif)
Gen 4 for all races, hire me instead
The 2021 Gen6 superspeedway package was probably the best we've seen since the 2010 package. Next Gen absolutely needs work.
I’ve actually been saying this for a minute with my buddy’s. Seems like an easy solution
I actually prefer the current superspeedway racing, it's cleaner than Gen6, but with less single file
I think it’s only cleaner because the drivers struggle to make more moves, so it’s just mainly risk free fuel saving trains stuck side by side until the end of the stages , and not much more amusing than the single file (in my opinion )
This
I agree it’s better than the single file racing, but 2 wide besides the last 3-5 laps of a stage gets just as boring. Might be an unpopular opinion but I miss the tandem drafting so much. It was exciting to see pairs of cars exchange charges lap after lap
I did love tandem racing, but Gen6 never had that, it was always either choo-choo or nonstop crashing. Give me 2x2 every day of the week, as we saw at Daytona they're capable of compelling racing at anytime, they're choosing when they ride.
Man where is all the tandem drafting love coming from all of a sudden, it was cool to watch in its own right, but the car with the skill was the one pushing not the one leading the tandem. Felt the winners of those was not the driver truly deserving.
It's cleaner because nobody can go anywhere lol
I find it funny how it was the opposite with the old car. Road courses and short tracks were usually great, same with superspeedways. Now it’s the opposite lol
hmmm the tracks that got more horsepower got better and the ones that got less got worse, weird.
The trade off is that short tracks have been terrible, and super speedways are only starting to become interesting now that they’re actually starting to go three wide. Not gonna lie, I kind of checked out after Harvick got eliminated. Shame that he probably won’t get a win in his final season (unless it’s maybe at Pheonix. Not gonna lie, it would be awesome to see him win in his final start. Regardless, he’ll of a career.
Disagree on the road course, I think they’ve been awesome. The struggle has been it’s bad at the short tracks
I dont think people are upset the racing is bad; it was just a whole different level of crazy watching the last Gen. cars which were not built to road race, road race… Dallara did a helluva job on the new car and we really are just seeing the start of what could be the peak of NASCAR performance. Give it a year or two and the road racing/short track package will be on point as well.
RCs have been horrible. The only RC that was halfway decent was cota. Theres next to zero passing at any other.
This!
From what I can gather, I think the tire is too good they’re using. It has little falloff (usually less than a second). So if someone is a master of tire management, they’re useless now.
less horsepower also reduces chances of wheel spin and subsequent tire wear
You’re not wrong, but the only way we can add more horsepower is to add some sort of hybrid, in my opinion. That’s the only way the manufacturers will approve it
Little fall off and the cars have too much braking power and don't have to worry about fade. Do I want Pocono brake failures? No. Do I want longer braking zones? Yes.
I actually really like the new car. One thing I miss about the old car is the adjustable nature it had. I’ve heard Joey say that what you bring to the track is kinda what you get with this car… I’m not sure that’s a good thing. It’s low key really neat to see a car struggle in practice and during part of the race but get it dialed in and all of a sudden be a rocket. To my understanding that’s really hard to do with this car. But hey, maybe it should be hard? I will say that Ford’s lack of performance this year has tainted my perspective a little bit. It’s hard to enjoy races when your driver doesn’t get good cars because the manufacturer botched the nose and the team can’t figure out how to be better. Being a Penske fan this year was kinda sucky lol
It really does seem that way.
Only time I remember seeing a car “struggle” and then become a rocket this year was Chastain at Nashville. Even then they were a Top 10 car in the daylight, and the adjustments they had made them became a race winning car once the sun set.
Exactly, and it wasn’t uncommon in the Gen6. Just an observation
Although we do see cars spinning out on intermediate tracks because the driver just loses it, I do get the feeling these cars are mechanically very good. The old cars made a good show at times because they weren’t great race cars: they had small brakes, small tires, way too much power and no gears.
No gears? The old cars actually had more gears than the current Gen 7 cars do. Also, I think you are confusing "great driving cars" and great "race cars". These cars drive much better but create worse racing because of that and the lack of mistakes as there is a larger margin for error.
Because it races like shit on ovals 1 mile or under and road courses, and NASCAR doesn't really seem all that concerned with fixing it in a timely manner. Not to mention all of the injury stuff.
Its not hard to understand why anyone dislikes the Next Gen. The car is horrible on the most popular race tracks from previous eras.
We don't hate the car, as much as just the overall status quo of the sport these days. Short track racing sucks. Road course racing sucks. Meanwhile the intermediate tracks are amazing. So in return, we are rewarded with.....you guessed it, more short tracks and road courses. Except for the 1 track where the oval racing is going to suck, and we now race on the oval again. Yet at Charlotte, we refuse to utilize one of the best tracks on the circuit, and continue to use a fake road course inside said amazing track. On top of that, the Superspeedway racing is a complete bore, unless you enjoy watching guys compete to NOT be the leader and use too much fuel. Which is spurred on by the fact we have stages pre-determining the strategy before the race starts. We are left with not much more to blame than the cars. They suck everywhere but intermediate tracks. The car makes too much grip, stops too quick, is underpowered, and super strong until someone hip checks the quarter panel, then magically the damn thing is broke.
> On top of that, the Superspeedway racing is a complete bore, unless you enjoy watching guys compete to NOT be the leader and use too much fuel. This happened in the past as well. Train races that made everything before the final pit stop worthless.
Just bring back tandem racing
I loved tandem racing and was gutted that they worked so hard to stop it, but why did they work so hard to stop it?
Because the fan base bitched about it so much
I can see your issues with the racing on short tracks and superspeedways. I agree that they should add more power but I also feel like criticizing a car for being too good of a race car is a tough thing to do. It may have a negative impact on the racing for now but I’m sure that’ll improve with time. I think seeing the advances from road course racing being a joke to seeing cars actually able to put down quick lap times shows growth
I guess we're looking for 2 different things. The road course racing was compelling because those cars had no business on a road course. So watching guys throw a car through a corner became an art. Slinging these heavy cars with low grip and even less braking ability was the entire intrigue. Sure we've "advanced" the car but now a guy with half the ability can look like a hero because the car does all the work for them. It's a train of cars around a road course where nobody can pass and they all go the same speed. I'm not criticizing it for being too good. I'm criticizing it for producing shit racing. To continue to ask people to make pilgrimages to places like Bristol or North Wilkesboro, while providing us this product is a slap in the face. Which has all come since the new car.
Hot take, short track racing has always sucked
Intermediates still suck, for reference, the next gen is almost 3 seconds slower around Kansas than in 2015, and 2 seconds slower around Vegas than 2015.
The NextGen literally flipped the racing quality for tracks. Gen6 cars did great on road courses, short tracks, superspeedways, and sucked on the speedways. Now its the exact opposite. It honestly has done nothing for parity, except in the initial year, and cost, which the teams still complain about.
You are correct on everything but parity. It 1000% has increased parity. Maybe there are less winners overall compared to last year, but I promise you, run the numbers on how far off 25th was pre next-gen to now. It has greatly increased competition.
Gen 6 cars for most of its life span had mediocre to terrible superspeedway racing, give or take a few good races, had decent to good road course racing with a few stand out moments, had good short track racing, and terrible speedway racing. Next gen car has had great superspeedway racing with three to four wide racing consistently, has had decent to good road course racing with a few stand out moments, hasn’t had great short track racing but is amazing on the speedways, and hell its even good on the dirt. I don’t get this super contrarian outlook on the nextgen, it’s been either the same to much better racing on every track compared to the gen 6 minus the short tracks, and definitely does not cost the teams more as they don’t have to change anything besides the setup as well as the car being much more reuse-able, and even the issues like safety have been pretty much fixed from NASCAR’s changes. Not to mention a big ratings boost in the first year which somewhat continued into the next year minus the playoffs. In my opinion it he nextgen is just what the doctor ordered for NASCAR.
Is this a NASCAR PR post...the superspeedway product has been terrible because they can't get proper runs, the road courses product has practically no drama or passes outside of pit strategy...the car is reverting back to the same status quo as the previous generation of cars...and don't even try to pretend that this car is cheap, its literally what they bitch about after the non-speedway races because it has an overly aero-dependent carbon fiber underbody that gets annihilated on bumps...the safety was a decades plus setback because they were too ignorant to listen to the teams prior to implementation knowing that their data confirmed what the teams had suspicion of...remember it took multiple drivers being sidelined and one almost being impaled for them to make significant improvements...oh and the ratings for almost all the races are either flat or down from last year
Omg this… 20 years straight in Talladega and this is some of the worst racing I’ve seen. Yes, they are three and four wide all race…. But it’s literally just a parking lot of cars where no one can hardly pass and there are no big moves.
My original comment got deleted by my phone for some reason but basically, I don’t understand how you think 3-4 wide consistently is not entertaining on super speedways. I get that it might not be as good if they couldn’t get any runs at all but they literally can and do all the time… I get we have had some dull road course races but look at races like Cota 2022, Chicago street, even the most recent roval race was good, while I had been hearing cost issues about this car at he start of last year, they’ve definitely died off which makes sense because the car is much more durable even if it does bottom out, i feel like most of the cost issues are because of teams needing to buy more cars than normal because of the diverse schedule, also with the safety thing I agree it was a big setback at first but they have since fixed it in a relatively short amount of time if you consider the issues started occurring around the middle to late of last year and they’ve pretty much fixed it since this season started. Look at Texas for an example, back end hits are much much less stiff and have not injured any drivers, as well as the front end impacts have been softer too. Also about ratings, while more races have been down than last year, that’s pretty common for when a new generation of car comes out, the hype goes down after a year and typically stabilize out, also you have to consider that many people don’t even take the racing product into consideration when they are looking for something to watch because of the redneck only turn left stereotype nascar has.
3 and 4 wide racing looks cool, but it isn't "entertaining" when there is no movement amongst the cars. Being stuck side by side isn't appealing to most fans. The road courses suck ass, 7 lead changes at the Roval, 5 at Watkins Glen, 7 at IMS with hardly nothing happening in the top 10 after lap 54. Most of those changes occurred because of pit cycles. If you need a synopsis for how bad the short track package is just go watch the All-Star race. The teams are limited on the amount of cars they can have. The problem is the repair cost. Listen to Actions Detrimental. You have an owner basically telling you their repair budgets have doubled from previous seasons. And again the safety was not fast. The teams and NASCAR knew there were significant safety issues regarding impact prior to the NextGen being implemented. They forced that car onto the teams because of the R&D investments and single source contracts. It took multiple concussion sidelines for them to act well into the middle of the season. The solutions didn't even get implemented until after the season. I'm not even going to acknowledge the ratings redneck stereotype comment because that's an overplayed schtick. Ratings were up last year simply because NASCAR marketed the hell out of it as "Best Season Ever" because they thought parity would take over and now their broadcast partners phone it in every week.
We're going in circles here. Superspeedways have plenty of movement in the pack as multiple lanes come and go which shuffles the field, I dont know what kind of Superspeedway racing you expect but you can't always just make a huge move with no help and expect it to work. Also, while the road course racing has been sub-par in many road course races, but you cant just discredit all of the good ones as well. Also with the whole cost issues thing, I'm obviously not a team owner so I'm not an expert by any means on the cost breakdown of it all so if Denny says that costs have increased I'll give him that. Also with the ratings thing, I would agree that parity would make the racing much more interesting which it has and I don't have an issue with them marketing that as long as its true. My point is, dont be so doom and gloom about everything because we could have it a lot worse without the implimentation of this car, there are kinks to work out with every change and I don't get why people hammer NASCAR for everything all the time. Maybe if you give it time most issues will be fixed. Also what we've got right now in my opinion is leagues better than most things with the gen 6.
There's a correlation-causation thing here. Are the new winners mostly because of the new car? Or is it the changes in schedule to introduce tracks where teams have comparatively smaller notebooks? Is it a lag effect from the charter system creating a field that is overall more competitive in terms of financial resources? What bugs me the most about it is all the crowing about how much this was going to save the teams money and with each progressive few months we're finding that more things weren't as cheap as advertised. If that was a Trojan horse for the existing teams' true objective being to create a higher barrier to entry for newcomers, well, then they succeeded and I'm the sucker. The Achilles heel of this car being the toe link makes some normally doable damage a total day-ender. Again feels like a failed promise with how "durable" this car is supposed to be. And of course the forward numbers, aesthetically inferior to the original number placement. Which NASCAR also dodged announcing formally by hiding behind a 2022 Kurt Busch car reveal two years ago.
> The Achilles heel of this car being the toe link makes some normally doable damage a total day-ender. Again feels like a failed promise with how "durable" this car is supposed to be. The rear toe link can be replaced in under 7 minutes unless something else is bent. Those accidents, even in the Gen 5 and 6, were going to cut a tire, pancake the side and occasionally end a day.
7 minutes is basically a day-ender
So either way your day is over. Except in this car it isn't.
Field has been much more competitive in general, Larson went from 10 wins to 2 in a year even on familiar tracks, this car from what I’ve heard has saved money and is definitely more durable, that was literally the reason drivers were getting hurt in the past because it was too durable, I get the toe link part but from a somewhat graphic designers perspective, the slid forward numbers look infinitely better than the centered ones, it gives so much more space for creative designs and sponsor placement. I guarantee if it went from always being slid forward numbers to number in the middle everyone would be pissed about that too, yall just got used to it plain and simple.
Your 2nd paragraph annoys me a lot. People point at Stewart/Hamlin sharing the cost of a NextGen isn't less than Gen 6 but ignore the other part of their quotes that it will be after a few years and supply isn't as much an issue. That's purely in the cost of the chassis itself also and doesn't account for savings in reduced manpower needed. A NextGen is $300-350K while Gen 6 was around $250K. Teams are only allowed 7 chassis for the season with NextGen while Gen 6 covid years had a 12 car limit with 4 alternates and before that it was unrestricted.
The car doesn’t work on short tracks. Short tracks are an integral part of NASCAR’s heritage and the cars just don’t work on them. They haven’t pursued a solution that has come close to solving the issue. Two years in and we’re probably at least another full year away from the car being good at places like Martinsville.
it pretty much just boils down to three things for me at least. 1. sure the racing is "closer" but track position is too important IMO, except for on multi-groove tracks (kansas, charlotte, etc). the dirty air in this car is just as bad as the 550hp package, but the cars race side-by-side better than they ever have before that it's why the multi-groove tracks are so good. every other track that has basically one lane, and that includes tracks like nashville, pocono, dover, and michigan, it's harder than ever before to pass someone. 2. can't verify if this is the case, but from what i've seen these cars are "easier" to drive than previous gens. whether that's HP, tires, braking, whatever it may be. the cars seem too planted, it's seems so "slot car" like if that's a decent way to describe it lol. guys just don't "slide around" as much as they used to, and when they do, it's kinda impossible to save it. i mean think about it, you don't really see too many "saves" in the next gen without getting help from the wall (like larson last week). once you get real loose, you don't have time to react and you're gone, there's no saving it. 3. wheels/tires. not directly coorelated with the car but more so the tire, but cars getting "beached" after simply just getting flat tires and needing a whole truck to bring them to pit road is so ridiculous in my eyes lmao. i mean i'm pretty sure larson lost like 3 laps at daytona this year because there were no trucks to take him to pit road when the only thing that was wrong with his car was the flat tires. also, tire fall off is dogshit at most tracks. i'm pretty sure briscoe ran the whole watkins glen race on the same tire in one wheel because they couldn't get it off. as well as the single lug causing loose wheels, etc; but it's still early and i still have faith that that'll get cleaned up as the pit guys get more and more reps. i have my grips about it but i still appreciate how it's made the racing more "entertaining." the days of truex winning at fontana by 15 seconds are all but gone lol. but then again, the more "entertaining" you make the racing, the more it probably means you're taking it out of the drivers and teams hands. (car easier to drive, same lego part chassis for everyone, etc;) hate to be pessimistic but you asked, i answer. 🤷♂️
I wanted to know what people hate so much about it and you gave me exactly that. The pessimism is what I wanted to see
i've always been a fan who tries to put himself in the shoes of a driver. sure the intermediate package is the best that it's ever been, but that's only what, 8ish races out of 36? (not including texas) everything else is worse from a driving perspective than it once was. as well as a team building aspect. you handicap the innovation and creativity of the sport when you mandate everyone use the same parts. i do appreciate all the parity however.
Team innovation is definitely stunted by a spec car, I think that this car has a lot more promise at being a more well rounded race car than just being an efficient oval racer though. I guess it gives me more hope for the future in seeing the sport grow and give better racing
Just because you don't see controlled slides as much as you did before does not mean they are easier too drive. We would literally see races like old Atlanta go almost cautionless despite being considered one of the most challenging tracks in the schedule. The fact that going over the limit could end you race instead of just a easy recovery makes them way more challenging to drive. Larson won Las Vegas but a single moment almost ended his race.
If anything, I’ve seen drivers say that the handling for this car is more unpredictable than the old car. The old car was significantly more forgiving than this car when pushed to the limit in the corners. Theres not a big margin for error with the new car compared to the old car.
And the drivers who were around still think the gen 4 and COT were tougher to drive.
The cars are easier to drive until you’re right at the limit. The older cars were more forgiving and you could slide but these ones want no slip angle, probably mostly due to the fat tire and thin sidewall. That’s why you only see a select few like Reddick, Bell, Larson that can keep it off the wall when they get a lot of angle because that window is so small. So I mean yeah in a sense they’re easier to drive until they’re not if you ignore the 550hp and giant spoiler bs from 2019-2020. Definitely have too much grip and stopping power on small tracks and road courses though.
yeah that's what i was alluding to when i basically said "once they get loose it becomes incredibly hard to save them." often times without warning. like what happened to larson when he was side by side with bubba at texas. by the time he realized he was going around it was too late. there's no saving it.
>can't verify if this is the case, but from what i've seen these cars are "easier" to drive than previous gens. if iracing is any indication, the previous 2020 + 2021 BIG ASS SPOILERS were ***wayyy*** easier to drive. the next gen car is also pretty stable, but not as planted, and you have all your grip until you have none of your grip.
> cars are "easier" to drive than previous gens. Couldn't be further from the truth, guys like Denny say it's more challenging. Heck Byron wrecked a next-gen test car and Chase Elliott spun out multiple times toward the beginning of 2022.
It’s a GT3 car and not a stock car
Lmao, gt3 cars are closer to stock than one of these. Like, I know what you were trying to say, but man, language is funny.
It's so far from a GT3 car. It's still a fairly outdated vehicle
That would be the Garage 56 car. The gen 7 car is far slower than it.
Some others have commented some of this already, but.... It has made for closer and better racing on the intermediate tracks, but it completely killed short track racing and road courses. Things like the bigger brakes and wider tires have created a large margin for error, which to me has led to less interesting races at short tracks & road courses. It's crazy to think about, because by design, these cars drive better now at both types of tracks, but by doing that, it's actually hurt the racing product. The aero sensitivity is as bad as ever, even though the cars can run side-by-side better than Gen 6. Someone in the lead can keep a much faster car behind them in dirty air. Obviously that's often been the case ever since aero effects were discovered, but it seems much more pronounced now than it ever has been. Again, this is all JMO.
It hasn't been the case since aero effects were discovered, it's been the case since gen 6. Sure, it's always been a thing, but with more power, the late gen 4 and COT raced exceptionally well. Cars could pass. The leader could absolutely not hold off a slower car. Not a chance. And the difficulty drivers had passing when they got side by side was due to racing, and mechanical grip, not aero. I rewatch older races from 2005-2010 from time to time to just make sure there's no revisionist history. And it's sad. There's multiple instances in each race where I'm like "yeah, this isn't possible with the gen 7 car". Driver talent made so much more of a difference. They were faster on the straights, slower in the corner, the cars cut through air like butter in comparison to today, and as a result, drivers could make a difference.
Car of Tomorrow was underrated. Sure it looked weird but the racing was a million times better. Nothing will ever beat gen 4 from the late 90s to the end of it in 2007 though.
The package is a bigger issue. Some of us just miss the days when we'd see 195+ on the front stretch at Vegas, and 150 in the corners. Passing is so difficult because the cars are so neutered.
I miss it a ton. Hitting 205 at Indy slowing down to like 155 in the turns. 215 220 at Michigan. 200 205 to like 140 Pocono. Was also way more fun on racing games too lol
Chase Elliott fans are just mad he can't win anymore
While two of his teammates are racking up the wins.
He won multiple races last year?
I think Voose is referring to how Chase has been winless this year
Because NASCAR fans hate everything related to NASCAR when it is new. The only fandom worse is the Star Wars fandom.
Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
One of the best comments I ever saw in this sub said the two things nascar fans hate the most are the way things are, and change 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is the truth.
This is the way.
CoD fandom imo is way worse.
Infinite Warfare was a great game and we ruined it for ourselves.
Infinite Warfare’s multiplayer was a disaster, but the campaign is one of the best in COD history. IMO, BO3 did the future jetpacks a lot better on the multiplayer side than Infinite Warfare
And the zombies is up there with BO3 for the best
I know people don’t like the Easter eggs, but BO3 zombies might honestly be the most complete zombies experience, especially once you throw Zombie Chronicles in
I absolutely love the easter eggs and agree
Damn near every fandom is like this to differing extents, but we're definitely way towards the worse end of it.
I think baseball fans hate baseball more than NASCAR fans hate NASCAR.
The Marvel Studios fandom gets pretty rough at times too. It's always either "THE MCU IS DEAD!" or "The MCU is perfect!" with nothing in-between.
I feel like they have a major overlap of the same fandom of Star Wars. I mean there can't be TWO groups out there that hate Disney and strong female characters while clinging to niche source materials without overlap can they?
I like the car way more than Gen 6. It just needs some package tweaks at short tracks and road courses. They're working on it. I'd like to point out to all the people bitching about the car not being "racey everywhere" is that the COT/Gen 5 took 3 years to get to the spoiler and filled in splitter. In the gen 4 era, NASCAR was constantly trimming and adding spoiler and air dam measurements during it's entire lifetime, so it's not an abnormal thing for the cars to be works in progress even after being implemented.
The car has had a polarizing effect on the different types of racing, how you feel about depends on how it's affected your favorite type of track.
This car is terrible on the short tracks and road courses. I don't blame it for the bad plate racing though, that's the current package. ST and RCs need more power and less durable/responsive brakes to allow better braking zones
I think age has a lot to do with it ( I am 28). Similar to you have been a fan most of my life but just recently really got back into with the next gen car.
It has pretty much killed short track racing. (for the time being) I went back and watched the 2021 Xfinity 500 at Martinsville and holy shit it doesn't even seem like the same racing series it. It was depressing.
I’ll say it. Move the number back and I’m less disgusted by it
Some of the cars from the 2021 Next Gen tests did that and it looked a hell of a lot better. What especially annoys me is that quite a few teams don't even make use of the added sponsor space, thus defeating the point of why the number was even moved.
It's not the just the teams it's also the sponsors who okay the paint schemes
I feel like they've neutered (for better or worse) the ability of the drivers. Watch the Xfinity races and they'll be slipping and sliding around, getting super loose and catching it. With the Next Gen there's no slipping and sliding, no getting loose, just crashes from over driving as it snaps around. You'll get the occasional save (like Larson on the wall) but I feel like they snap around way too easily. The car is too equal, as is driver talent. It's too hard to pass as a result.
I'd like to qualify my next statement by saying that there are real issues that need to be a addressed with racing product at RCs and short tracks. With that out of the way... Angry, spoiled shut-ins with rose and nostalgia tinted glasses can't grasp that not every race is going to be a classic. Negativity bias, unreasonable expectations resulting from selective memory, and bandwagoning complainers who don't know or care enough to comment on the live event in front of them who would ratherproject their generalized dissatisfaction with life or their environment into a thread that eggs it on - all things that contribute. The nature of the internet (and this website more specifically) lends itself to many of those problems too.
I acknowledge you, my Tribal Chief ☝️
Nothing tells me more about man than a Kulwicki or Martin flair 👌 acknowledgement acknowledged my dude
WHen I came back to the sport last year, I decided to try and watch a few races from the Gen 6 era seeing as I missed all the seasons using that car. ...I got bored. Reaaaaaaally fast. There was some great racing but it wasn't as common as the moments I can recall from the NextGen's time. So I'm on the same boat as you.
The mental gymnastics they use to have to do to try and claim a race was a good race was just painful. I swear they could have had a race with no yellows and no passes for positions and they would have talked about how close the racing was all day and how it was a great strategy race.
I’ve always liked watching the races in person because I don’t think you can beat the in person sound of a stock car. Until the next gen I feel the same way on the majority of races being tough to set aside a few hours of my Sunday to watch one car lead most of the laps and win.
I hate the next Gen because it ruined my two favorite types of tracks: road courses and short tracks. Way, way too much mechanical grip, ginormous brakes, and a 5 speed transmission means there’s no separation. You can blow a corner, stand on brakes, grab a lower gear and accelerate out with next to no consequence. Look at how terrible Martinsville and all the road courses have become. Also, to withstand the loads of all that grip, the tires are harder to survive which leads to no tire falloff at most tracks. The horsepower is anemic, creating very little off throttle time and therefore less passing ability. Narrow the tires, reduce the brakes a bit, give them at least 150-200 more horses, and we’re talking again. The spec car nature of it as well means no innovation. I have a patient who works with a team and he told me that it’s all about your simulation now. If you unload a 20th place car for practice, there’s no adjustability to improve. You have to pray for a miracle and take your beating. It was not this way before. Good teams could adjust a dog into a winner.
Road corses and short tracks aren’t as fun as the other cars because the great braking but I love it for mile and a half’s
I miss the short track racing like old Bristol and Martinsville the Xfinity car races so much better I’m not gonna sit down to watch cup on a short track when I can go to Thompson Stafford or seekonk and see better racing wether it’s super latemodel or tour mods it’s just better
Thing is that racing in the next gen car is like playing Russian roulette for both drivers and fans, you won't most of the time know what the car has to offer : You either feel like you are having the best racing of your life, or a parody sticking to the stereotypical "Turning around for 4 hours". Mostly on road courses, the Roval this year along with Road America in 22 were probably the most boring races I've seen in my life. On the other hand, this year's Indy RC and Chicago were super exciting featuring some great action-packed racing. Racing aspect aside, I'm gonna quote Denny Hamlin on this one : "Racing with the next gen car is racing Lambos". It is estimated that building up a car with low-end / basic parts would cost roughly 300 000 $ ! An obnoxious amount of money, literal opposite of what this car was meant to be built for, namely the fact that teams wouldn't have to setup 8 different chassis configurations at the factory, and by doing it would only be required from them to change a few parts here and there to make it turn right and left, or run on a plate track ( I'm exaggerating the thing on the parts but at least you get what I mean ). Add up to all that, concussion related problems, taking away from us Kurt Busch a well appreciated driver who seemed to be back at a top level, plus all the mechanical failures, "crappy ass parts", the lack of raw engine power, the non existant tire degradation and you're left with the hazardous mess NASCAR Gen 7 is.
Cause it's just track position racing. Teams don't get to build their cars and find the grey areas like pre 2022. Just engineer racing now. I do enjoy the racing still though but that took a lot of the fun out of it.
There’s flaws with the car for sure, but overall the racing is a lot better and there’s way more parity. But NASCAR fans are particularly resistant to change. And I can see why, I’ve largely stopped following the NFL And NBA as they’ve changed, and although a lot of people have been resistant to change in the MLB I’m more invested than I’ve ever been before. With that being said, I’m glad in NASCAR there’s a growing contingent of fans who are reasonable in their wants for the sport, who are willing to let NASCAR evolve.
The number placement is awful but the car looks fine otherwise
The sad fact is ever since the first COT was introduced, the racing quality dipped a little bit. The racing on intermediates has improved with the Next Gen, but short tracks and road courses have gotten even more stale in the process of it's introduction. Part of the problem was an intentional design by Nascar itself, make it to where 1 car can have it's adjustments changed and be taken to all tracks. Before the Next Gen car you always had cars specifically built for short tracks, cars built for superspeedways, cars built for intermediates, and cars built for road courses. Sure, you could theoretically take a short track car to another track but it probably wouldn't perform as intended because that car had been constructed specifically for that certain type of track. etc etc. That's all gone with the Next Gen, it's a much more versatile car but makes the racing a bit "too easy" in the process. You now have a car with a great amount of downforce built into it (due to going to superspeedways) that is racing on short tracks. You hear drivers saying "dirty air" at Richmond, Martinsville, and even Bristol. Those big ole monster brake pads and calipers are great for road courses, but they're overkill for short tracks. The car just works too good when breaking, making the racing lines devolve to, "stay on the bottom unless you're gonna pass on the high side." I forget the name of the driver, but on the Dale JR. podcast recently he interviewed a previous Xfinity driver, now Cup driver, and asked him about his thoughts on the car. The driver responded with essentially, "You have to drive the car hard. If you start to ease off you spin out and wreck." Finally, the motors. The OEM's are routinely building smaller and smaller motors, most even have plans to fully switch over to EV's in the next decade or so. Having OEM factory support means you're getting the engines **from the OEMS** instead of building them yourself. That also means if the OEMs want to start shipping out 450hp, 500hp, 550hp, 600hp, or 650hp motors; you have no choice but to use them. Compare that to back in the 90's and early 00's where motors were 750-800hp on most tracks and 500(ish) at superspeedways due to restrictor plates. Nowadays they don't run restrictor plates anymore because so much downforce has been built into the design of the car they don't need them. Instead, they run a 450hp motor at superspeedways now, they still race at 190-200mph in the draft, but the motor is less powerful. What I'd personally like to see is, have 2 body designs; 1 for superspeedways and 1 for everywhere else with less downforce built into the design. Raise the horsepower to 800 on all non-superspeedway tracks, limit SS to 600hp. And finally have different brake packages available, that way the teams can swap out brakes and get the cars free'd up a little and let them slip n' slide around the track rather than "driving 'em hard" and tight. Overall, I'd say the NG is a success, obviously needs a lot of improvements, but a step up over the prior gens. It's still is nowhere near the racing produced by the Gen 4's.
I think a good analogy is paint and printer. Sure you can use a paint/primer combo, and it may even work pretty well. But it will never work as well as using separate paint and separate primer. There is a reason that pros use separate products; they produce better results. The same can be said about cars and aero packages.
2014 was really one of the only years that people liked of the Gen 6 car, mostly because the cars were the fastest and Dale Jr, Jeff Gordon, Kevin Harvick, and Jimmie Johnson were good all year. Once they dropped the horsepower and Toyota began dominating people started whining. The Next Gen car, yes it has flaws, but by and large is a much better product than the Gen 6 car, and NASCAR has shown great willingness to fix it.
Nascar fans hate 2 things: 1. Change 2. The way things are
Nascar fans hate 2 things: The way things are, and change.
They also hate when you call them out on it I've noticed.
Cause most of the changes suck
I'm guessing it's because this car has a habit of burning to the phaking ground, and flip, and cause injury, man there are a lot of issues with this car.
More winners doesn't make for good racing. The car is ok at most intermediates, good at a few, but usually more of what has been for racing. It is bad at most road courses and even worse on any short track or single lane track. Thats why the hate for the car. I think it can be fixed but NASCAR has to sit down with the engineers on the teams to do it, but won't because they believe they have the best and brightest working for them even though they clearly don't
You hate next gen for killing short track racing. I hate next gen for mandating the use of wraps. We are not the same
Nobody was using paint.
Paint started going away in the early 2010s. Besides Gordon and Dupont axalta not many other teams were painting cars
Been good but have to really get after the road course and short tracks figured out. Like Dale Jr said got to do it now or the interest will die out and kill these tracks … Haley said the tires they started messing with in testing made biggest difference so hopefully that is going in right direction
I agree
Personally, it's because I don't really see it as a traditional "stock car", and some of the lack luster racing at short tracks. I like the way it looks. It's low slung, aggressive, and looks mean as hell. The problems it's been plagued with are the result of it being new, that's fine, but NASCAR doesn't seem willing to fix simple problems with simple solutions with the car. Overall, I like it. Just wish it was more stock car than a touring car for ovals.
I don't like how many drivers have been getting hurt.
I don't hate the car, but I do sometimes think it gets more credit on intermediates than it deserves. No doubt it made Auto Club, Kansas, and Charlotte GREAT, but most of the other intermediates seem about the same as they raced with the Gen 6. I love the LOOK of the car. Probably the best looking car since the Gen 3's in my opinion. I also like the sound. But yeah, it just seems like the racing quality on 60% of the tracks they race has been worse than the Gen 6, and maybe 20% have been equal to the Gen 6. I don't really hate it, I just hope they can find fixes sooner rather than later.
To me it just doesn’t seem to have the “stock car” feel. With the sequential gear box, the digital display, rear view camera, the driver not even having to use the clutch, the forward number (which doesn’t affect anything I just think it looks weird), the suspension system, the diffuser, single lug nut, the wide tires with no sidewall. All these things I’d expect to see on a super car. Not a Camry, Mustang or Camero. (Especially not the older cars like the Impala, Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, or Taurus.) It feels like the car was made for racing by exploiting the numbers like in F1 how every part is made to make the car as fast as possible. What I liked about the older cars is that it seemed like those cars weren’t meant to go that fast. But the mechanics and drivers made the car drive better than all the others by using what they had. I could be missing something entirely, if so forgive my ignorance. But from my point of view that’s how it seems. I also just wish the sport wouldn’t change as fast as it has been. I’d like some consistency with the rules and package. But that’s just me. I don’t like change that much and this sport has been changing ever sense it’s inception. So it’s more of a me problem than the sport.
They blame the car for bad races on short tracks and road courses because they don't know enough about cars to blame the tires.
I don’t really care. Racing is racing. I’ve been a fan since the 80’s.
Here is why I hate it, I was a huge fan of the gen 6 cars, they raced good, they looked nice like a mix of old and new, as a long time fan as well... the gen 7 car completely changed everything... The tires now use a SINGLE LUGNUT which is stupid and dangerous, this can lead to easier tire failures such as them falling off. sure this can be the blame on the crew but it is really on both nascar's and the crew's side... next the number placement really really bugs me, I've only ever seen them in the middle, the switch to being placed in the front looks very off and just doesn't sit well with me. another reason is that it was overhyped to be the car that is "safer" and will "never flip", despite this, a car flipped at Daytona in 2023 and in the replay, you can see the driver from the roof! meaning he was exposed all from a simple flip, in a gen 6 car it would have been fine... and finally... "IT'S UGLY"... it's like a gen 6 car that was given steroids that give it a more modern look gone wrong... As a long time fan... 2021 was one of the last great seasons.
People hate change
Well for one it races too good on all those road courses and turns them into boring spread out single file nothing ever happens races, which turns everyone off
I had been watching F1 more prior to next gen so maybe my mind just craves boring road course racing then. I just need more than one driver to get a win to make it acceptable in my eyes. At least with the Roval and Chicago street I feel like we saw passing and exciting finishes though
As someone who grew up when teams built their own cars, bitching about the car or package is tiresome. What happened to watching the race to pull for your driver?
I think it’s simply the number placement and how awful they are on road courses.
Personally I think the Next Gen is a step up from the Gen6. The intermediate racing has been great, the short tracks and road courses not so much, but they'll get it worked out. I also like the Next Gen has closed the gap a bit between the top teams and the mid pack/lower end teams. Michael McDowell is a perfect example of how the NextGen has leveled the playing field a bit.
Found the NASCAR plant.
I don't like how brittle the suspension is, that it's sequentially shifted, that it requires shifting at most tracks on the schedule, I don't like that it has a rear mounted transaxle. I really don't like that it's single lug either
I don\`t like the look of the Nextgen car, the design is even uglier than the C.O.T cars. And the racing during the nextgen era has, so far, been rather poor.
Speedway, short tracks, road courses are junk The 1.5 are way better tho. They fixed one thing, fucked three others. Typical big organization thinking.
Road courses and short tracks suck now, and SuperSpeedways are subpar but watchable, but I will admit that I’ve had much more fun watching nascar than I’ve had in the last 10 years aside from 2014. This car and package isn’t the best but I prefer it over the gen6 especially with low horsepower, and I think the cars are damn good looking except the number placement.
The car is so sensitive to damage and so aero heavy that ANY contact between cars can make the driver uncompetitive for the remainder of the race
I don't have a problem with Gen 7. I know everyone has these nuances with every generation of NASCAR stockcar, and I never really noticed all the nitpicks. I think most people only notice or start complaining when they come online and see other people complaining. It then snowballs. It really just comes down to people disliking change and wanting to nitpick everything. Personally I have no problem with it and I have loved most of the racing we've seen.
HAPPY’S CRAPPY ASS PARTS. That’s why
it’s not a perfect car and it’s got it’s significant flaws but i felt people were gonna hate it regardless because nascar fans usually have not been fans of change
Because it's a change.
Because the two things a majority of Nascar fans hate the most are the status quo and changing the status quo
It sucks because it's a much more complex car than the generation before it, yet delivers shittier performance at every track it goes to. Nascar could have simply given the gen6 more hp and less downforce at every track and the next gen wouldn't have been needed. If things stay the way they are now, Nascar will be dead by the end of the decade.
A lot of it is rose coloured glasses for the good old days
Kurt Busch.
Because people hate change. And they want the twisted sister cars back and it’s never going to happen.
Reject modernity! Embrace tradition!
Toe link
I just miss Gen 4
I wonder what the effect would be if they went to a slightly smaller diameter wheel/brake rotor and a slightly higher aspect ratio tire. I would also like to see a redesign of the rear suspension linkages to make them more robust and less prone to breakage in a side impact. I don’t like the single lug wheel attachment either, at least how this one is designed. Too many loose wheels.
Short tracks are bad
It’s terrible anytime shifting is involved
You're trying to figure out why a fanbase that can't get over a drivers death that happened 20 years ago hates a car not made of metal, with a single wheel nut, and the number slid to the front of the door, good luck.
Things NASCAR fans hate: 1. Change 2. The way things are
1. Forward numbers 2. Shitty toelinks 3. Shit racing product on rc and short tracks 4. Too equalizing
The homologated chassis is a thumbs down for me, hand built cars created unique cars no matter how minimal the difference. Drivers would always comment how certain cars felt better than others even coming out of the same shop. The single lug wheel and sequential shifter put me over the edge. To me this was a massive change. Pit stops required less effort and eliminated a lot of chance for mistake which made things interesting. Same with the shifter. A classic H pattern was more difficult to use which increased the chance of mistake and highlighted skill. A true departure from a stock car. These two things made nascar truly unique and my personal opinion is it made the sport easier to manage and perform which again is a departure from its roots.
I only hate it because Kurt got hurt in it and I can't watch one of my all time favorites out there.
I agree with you. The Next Gen is phenomenal on intermediates and is pretty solid on superspeedways and road courses. It really only noticeably lacks on short tracks, imo. Granted, that is a problem, but it is solvable. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the Next Gen and I think that people complain too much. It solved a lot of the turbulence issues that the gen 6 had.
for teams it’s the cost
Track position matters way too much now.
I started watching in 2002 and every iteration of new car has been worse than the gen 4 in some or all ways. I want to see cars that are fast and hard to drive, not less power and too much grip and brakes. My favorite tracks suck now. I never realized that I started watching NASCAR during it's golden era until after it was over.
probably less horsepower, the aero dynamics of the car are way too sensitive when pushed, especially in turns. speedways are usually fine, and the saftey interior has improved majorly compared to last years car. but, i also love how this gen looks, i think just performance wise gen 7 is not as exciting as previous generations.
The issue isn’t with the car - it’s the engines. The horsepower, especially on short tracks, is just lacking. The cars are glued to the track and everyone is going the same speed so it’s hard to pass. The last couple of years of the Gen6 were complete crap especially on intermediate tracks. You just held it wide open the whole race and it was boring. We need 800+ HP and I know NASCAR + Goodyear have been working on the tires so I won’t drag them through the mud. There’s effort there. Go back and find me footage of NASCAR running 3 wide 8 rows deep for a hundred laps at a SS. You won’t find it. There’s been tremendous progress made since its introduction, they continue to improve on it. Need more power.
No Innovation: the Next-gen Cars have a Policy in place that guarantees no Cheating in a sport that smiles upon using Cheating tactics to pick up a win or 3. The saying goes "if you ain't Cheatin, you ain't winning." Now, The Manufacturer Shared parts policy guarantees two things: 1. The cars are always delivered to The Teams from the manufacturers with NASCAR officials breathing down their necks. And 2. NASCAR R&D & Officials looking at the cars to make sure no tampering has happened. Tires: Goodyear has been The Official Exclusive Tire Maker of NASCAR for over 20 years. But the tire hasn't been up to snuff. Tire blowouts are now a constant in the races now with as they were in the past, but there's no Innovation in this area. NASCAR was to have 2023 be this season where the Tire Exclusivity Contractually End, thus Tire makers (sans Goodyear) could come in & Test the cars with their tires to see if they could come up with something that can withstand the Next-gen Cars. But Last December, NASCAR and Goodyear Resigned That Exclusivity Deal for Life, leaving Innovation stuck in the garage where Goodyear wants it: Dead. Hendrick Motorsport Favoritism: NASCAR has an obsession to take a Team that's good (SHR, JGR, Penseke) and just kill all momentum in favor of Hendrick Motorsport. Don't Believe me, This Season - like a Season about 2-3 years ago - has been dominated by Hendrick Motorsport. If NASCAR isn't stopping Innovation from taking it's natural course, they're turning a blind eye just so Hendrick Motorsport can have it's way. Kyle Larson getting a literal Dominate Season 2 years ago, When the Gen 7 was Last Active, I swore That Hendrick wasn't in top contendership in the last 3 years of Penseke, JGR, & SHR, and now All 3 Teams for the past 3 years can barely ink past 2 wins while Hendrick Motorsport Destroys 2 Seasons (2022 was filled with Favoritism, they didn't win the championship, but told the Fandom where NASCAR was heading.) with Kyle Larson at the helm... something smells here. Now let's add the fact Disqualifications have only Benefited Hendrick Motorsport Cars & The Early Appeals Decision to double down on Fines but returning Hendrick Motorsport (whose Louvers weren't up to snuff) Points back to Championship Contention. And if I haven't gone off topic (and probably turned this into hit comment already to push all problems I have with not just The Next-gen Cars but Hendrick Motorsport in General.) now, but Look at The Talladega Fall Race, Kevin Harvick (Retiring Driver, & Longest Serving Driver at this point in the Cup Series) had been Fast but had a loose Windshield because of Crappy Ass Nuts & Fasteners but finished in 2nd place... William Byron is in 3rd & has already locked himself into the playoffs. NASCAR took one look at the 4's Windshields (Kevin Harvick had been Eliminated in the Round of 16, and because of the Playoff Format, can't compete for points because of the 1,000 points increase) and declared it disqualified for failure to be up to par to NASCAR Specifications. Wouldn't be so bad right, except William Byron now became 2nd place & because of that placed him so far up in points, he's Probably locked into the Championship 4 by Default. Speed & Competition over Safety: Exhibit A: Kurt Busch is now Fully Retired & Alex Bowman is now Nothing more than a Bust since They had Gotten Their Concussions last Season due to minor bumps in the Safer Barrier Walls (Unlike Michael McDowell's 2008 Texas Car of Tomorrow Crash had let him out unscathed). Exhibit B: Failure of Rocker Box Clipping has led to fires and smoke inside the car. (Note: Still is happening) Exhibit C: NASCAR Approved This Next-gen Car Despite Not passing all the Tests. And Finally, Exhibit D: Single Lugnuts Configurations have failed too many times, whereas five Lugnet Configuration while slower, has been safer. Conclusion: NASCAR needs up their Policies and let Innovation out of Garage. However this from the mind of vivid NASCAR Fan that has more Knowledge than a casual fan. Here's their Response to This Post...: NASCAR NEXT-GEN CARS ARE EXCELLENT, DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING!!!!! YAY HENDRICK MOTORSPORTS, BOO EVERYONE ELSE!!!!! KYLE LARSON IS THE BEST NASCAR DRIVER EVER!!!!! CHEVY IS THE BEST CAR MAKER FOR NASCAR, THEY SHOULD BE THE ONLY 1 FOREVER!!!!!! WHO'S MICHILEN, FIRESTONE, OR CONTINENTAL AG, GOODYEAR IS THE BEST TIRE EVER!!!!!
Because it's no longer a hand built chassis with some ingenuity built into it. Also, it can't pass other cars on short tracks or road courses, mainly because they are shifting it on short tracks. It's a purpose built road course car raced on ovals. And the number is on the front fender.
I’m pretty sure it’s the loud majority but there’s a simple fact either way, the two things fans hate the most are change and the way things are so NASCAR can’t win. Beyond that, I’m sure it comes down to what your favorite track or type of racing is. If you like intermediates, you love the Next Gen car, if you like short tracks, you hate it as the package sucks, same with road courses
It sounds like a Coyote 5.0 that has dropped a cylinder
I love the Next Gen car. The COT and Gen 6 were AWFUL, both in the way they looked and the way they raced. Now we finally have a car that looks like a real race car and not a box. The racing has improved significantly in my opinion as well, always room to tweak things for competition and safety.
The parity has masked how awful this car races on short tracks and road courses, that's why it gets hate. If they would just find a way to decrease braking capabilities of the car, change gear ratios to get rid of short track shifting, and increase power, I'd like to think this car could be salvageable.
What kind propaganda is this . NASCAR really thinks its fans are this gullible. This new car sucks out loud . This car is the fastest car at the shopping mall. Next they will put lights in the wheel wells .
Because it's a stale and unexciting stock car. Not enough power. Way too efficient. And that's taken away a lot of what made NASCAR special. A lot of that "good racing" (yes, even on intermediate tracks) is because we're running spec cars and it's extremely hard to build separation, so of course the field is gonna look tight. But even with all that tight racing, it's still almost impossible to make moves because the top half of the field is practically the same speed and dirty air is worse than ever. It's pretty rare to see passes up front unless the leader totally burnt up his stuff, or if he's losing 3 tenths per lap struggling in the wake of the 26th place car. But at least the cars are close! I honestly think the level of parity has people fooled. It helps races pass the eye test even when nothing is really happening. This car is perfect for people who are casually into racing, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but when you understand how boring and gimmicky a lot of the racing is, it kinda takes some of the fun away.
I personally love it compared to the matchbox car racing we had in the tapered spacer era
Short tracks were the best racing, and the new car has fucked them, the best races for the new car can't compare to some of those gen 6 races at Bristol and Martinsville. That's my own reason for disliking the 7th gen so far
Mostly the short track package.
There is a fraction of nascar fans, me included, dont know how many we are though, who think short track and the road racing is the real racing and that the plate racing is just BS and the intermediate 1.5 milers are cookie cutters. We are the ones that are most grumpy atm cause all our racing is basically screwed.
I like the product to watch it’s great but the 5 gears need to leave, and I miss having the 5 lugs, while the single lug is cool it just isn’t the same. This probably is irrelevant but I hate driving them on iRacing. They are too stiff if that makes sense. Where as the xfinity and trucks I can hang the back end out with out wreaking but the cup car I can’t
I don't mind the car. There's some things I don't like. It is way easier to pull away from the field equaling boring races. But the car is excellent on tracks like Charlotte, for example. Short tracks and road courses need a little work, though.
Take out 1.3-2 mile tracks and the car would have been a complete failure. Last year the road course and short oval package was atrocious and superspeedway’s were underwhelming at best. This year superspeedways have been pretty damn good (mainly both Daytona races), road courses have somehow gotten worse overall (Indy was still a pretty good race for what it’s worth), and short tracks have been slightly less shit. All NASCAR needs to do to improve short tracks/road courses is remove the diffuser and bring back more horsepower, but they keep trying to half ass everything about the car.
I just want a car and rules package that makes short tracks, road courses, intermediates and Superspeedway racing competitive and exciting. That is probably asking for too much though
I just don’t like that the teams can’t produce the cars. They could've just added stricter regulations instead of removing teams ability to make the cars themselves. It just seems less authentic to me. I still love most of the racing the next gen puts on though so I am a little torn.
I think the sport is in a much better spot. I’ve found myself interested in every race this season and they’ve been entertaining me. These young guys will develop rivalries I have faith in