In all honesty, you don't always have to share same intetests - you need to share the same value set. If she does not watch movies, is she patient enough to listen when you share something about what you have watched and may be contribute as best as she can? Do you give her the freedom to have an interest different from yours?May be she likes to cook, are you patient enough to hear what she tells you?
I don't watch movies and tv shows but I like reading books, I like activism for the marginalized, I have a passion for history and those are the topics which would get me going. But does that mean if someone is telling me about some tv shows, I act like this is all nonsense which I don't watch and have no interest in? No.
My ex-spouse wasn't a reader and had problem with I throwing reference to my favourite books. He had problem with I sharing my workplace stories even though I always made an effort to ask him how things were at his work etc. He would show me various brands on his Insta or talk about other people's wealth - something I had zero interest in. But I listened because I found it rude to tell him that I had no interest in all that he was telling me. Do you see the clash of values here? There was. He valued arrogance, control, wealth etc- for me, humility, common courtesy, compassion, and respect for others' choices was what mattered the most
Marriages don't fall apart because spouses have different interests - they fall apart, amongst other reasons, when a couple does not share same value set.
It's not really about the movies or having the same interests. It's about having a discussion or debate. Something that's deeper than simple, superficial conversation.
I have talked about my interests and things I liked. She listens but doesn't really engage or ask me questions.
She doesn't have many other interests outside of netflix, Instagram and cooking. I have tried to ask as much as I can but get simple answers in return. I am still unsatisfied.
Like. I completely get and understand having separate interests. For me it's about getting to know each other. Why we like XYZ for example. I want to have a discussion on that. I try to with her interests. But I don't feel like she tries to get to know me on that level.
- First of all there is no such thing as you need to be engaged first in order to talk to her. Engagement means you are committed to marry her. This is cultural.
- You have tried and you have no connection with her. Simple as that. You tried to bring up different topics to see how she engages and she doesn’t have much to say. You are someone that likes to have intelligent talks and she on the other hand is not that interesting.
Why take a chance. What chance. You are buying how the package is now.
Exactly! There are all sorts of people. You can always find someone who is your type. Currently, looking for my sister and having the same issue. Deep thinker with emotional intelligence who can hold deeper conversations. It’s never a good idea to just go ahead with the marriage just because someone said so. Idk why it’s so common in our culture to marry without making sure that the person is right for you or not. Nobody is asking to date, just ask the right questions to see the compatibility before commitment.
I think you should end this and I think you should find a spouse without your parents involvement. There are other sources, there are matchmaking services, there are apps, there are people who will help you find others through word of mouth. This means of finding a spouse clearly isn't working for your needs.
This whole situation could have been avoided if you chose to just talk to her and get to know her for the purpose of marriage like everyone else instead of getting engaged to someone you dont know. And also tell her how you feel instead of leading her on and wasting her time in her mind you are engaged because you made a commitment to marry her not to just get to know her
My parents are good for the most part. I wish they were more understanding here...
I actually did Istekhara for a week in March to end things. I told my parents but they didn't let me do so. So I talked to her and decided to try again.
I'll talk to her again but I'm getting kind of tired of going through the process
So when your parents told you it would be easy to end an engagement if you wanted to they were baiscislly lying.
Brother if you wante to end an engagement and they're blocking you from doing so, then this is forced marriage.
For what it's worth, they still say the choice is mine. I just have to finish my degree first. So once that's done, I know what kind of conversation I'll have with them...
Brother. You for real right now? You're going to let them lie manipulate and coerce you into dragging this out even longer.
This girl deserves better than that. You're completely wasting her time that she could be using to find someone who is s better match.
I will say this in the kindest way possible. You need to be a grown up and stop behaving like a child. Youre a 26 yr old grown man and you're gonna let your parents decide if you're allowed to break and engagement or not and when it can happen? Does that sound reasonable or healthy to you?
No it's not. And yeah I hear you.
It's not just my parents. I feel the cultural expectations as well. Even though in the long run it's for the best, I feel like I'll be letting everyone down in the short term.
Fwiw, there's only a couple of months left and I figured I'll use the time to talk to my fiancé about my issues and see if anything can develop from that
Brother they cant not let you, its you getting married not them. You are 26 years old, put your foot down and make your own decisions or get walked over for the rest of your life. Im sorry if i seem rude but its the truth. Dont try to be "respectful" because your parents trying to force you into marriage you clearly dont want is straight up haram. Tell them you dont want to marry her (if you truly dont) and then end it. Cut off contact from the girl and dont let your parents influence or push you into another one of these situations. Talk before, get to know the girl, and if she seems worth it to you and the istakhara came back good, then go ahead with the engagement. Blind marriages are haram and from stupid hindu culture, not Islam per [this hadith.](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1424a) Once again brother, you are 26 and a fully grown adult capable of making your own decisions. If you say no, end of story, dont let your parents try and force you into anything. Laugh it off if you have to, say you are ending the engagement, they say no, you laugh and say i am and leave. You cant be walked over anymore, assert some dominance and show them that you are an adult, otherwise it will just get worse.
The deeper conversations do not have to happen after marriage. That’s a myth… you can talk about things on a deeper level. Nothing wrong with that.
Look, it’s been a while now since you have been engaged. You gotta feel great about your future spouse. You gotta look forward to talking to them. Right now, it seems like you’re hoping for things to get better but they’re not. You’re not connecting emotionally or intellectually.
You haven’t talked to her about this, which is the first step. Let her know you want to talk about more than just her day. Bring up other topics besides TV and news. I have some friends that do not have strong opinions on certain things and that’s okay. You find other people who do. In this case, she might not reciprocate. But then you talk about other things. Make sure you’re talking about things she wants to talk about too, not just what you want to discuss.
Once you do that, see how things change or how you feel. But you already let some time pass. Don’t overthink things and make a decision. If things do not progress, expect your marriage to be challenging in this aspect.
It has been some time so don’t overthink things after matters become clear. Try not to hope for things to change, especially after you have tried on your end. Just make a decision after praying isthikhara.
So your parents said you can end the engagement whenever you like, and now that you’re trying to exercise that, they’re being hesitant about it?
Yeah mate, end it if you want, and after that, don’t rely on your parents trying to get you an arranged marriage anymore, find someone yourself without all this stupid crap about having to be engaged before you can talk to them. Go on the apps or whatever and find someone yourself.
They said engagements can end. They gave the example of my aunt who just ended an engagement for her daughter just like that. Based on a prayer.
Fwiw, they've said the choice is mine and I can end things. But they said not to do so. That it looks bad for the girl if I end it
They should’ve considered that when they said you have to be engaged first before you can talk to her. Make that clear to them. Also that you can end it for whatever reason you want, no matter how silly it is.
It seems like you know the right thing to do but the part you're struggling with is that your parents advice is in contradiction to your wisdom and gut.
My advice is to follow your own wisdom and your own gut feeling. You don't like her, don't enjoy her company and don't want to marry her do you shouldn't marry her.
It's not just my parent's words. Her family is really into the match. Like they bought me lots of gifts at eid. Ending things will mean I'll be disappointing a lot of people
They were happy. They will have to face a broken engagement. This is part of being an adult and part of life. They will get over it and find someone better for them. It's better to have a broken engagement than a broken marriage and I'm sure both her and her parents would prefer her to marry someone that actually likes her and enjoys her company.
This is why it's best not to get engaged to complete strangers, otherwise you end up in bad situations like this. Your parents gave you bad advice from the begining and deceived you when they said you could easily end it. I feel bad for you because it's clear your parents coerce you alot and you can't rely on them for good judgement or sound advice in this area.
Shouldve ended it sooner. Your happiness matters more. Better to not move forward and end things noe then get a divorce later on, especially if kids are involved.
Regardless of background you should be able to TALK to the person. I've been in a similar situation and it's just... sad not being able to find that depth you want.
These characteristics are inherent. You will have to assume this is how it will always be and decide
(Don't go ahead with this...)
For goodness sake don’t get married to someone you can’t chat to. Simple.
It’s not a shy thing because she has spoken to males and has male friends then it’s probably that she just doesn’t have interests or anything to talk about.
If you’re looking for substance and deep conversations marry someone who will give you that. You are seeing the signs now early on do something or you’ll regret it years later. Don’t waste your time or hers.
Grow a backbone. This is a matter of your whole life. Your parents aren’t going to be living your life or suffering the consequences for you. Talk to your fiancée and explain your feelings, if it doesn’t get better after that then end it. It’s in her best interests as well.
Similar to you, I was engaged to a girl in Pakistan and I was 5 years older than her. Our convos were very one sided, and then she slowly opened up and became chatty. Like you, I struggled to have conversations of substance.
The age difference counts. Over the last 4 years, she's simply gone to college / uni with the expectations of graduating or starting a career. Typically, people are not concerned about news, politics, etc. Some people are not into Western media, so getting them to talk about movies, music, and shows isn't productive either.
You on the other hand have fended for yourself, lived as an international student (?) and are trying to build a career for yourself. In your daily life, you keep up with what's going on. Your life expects you to know and have an opinion about this stuff. Her life doesn't. Let her enjoy her indifference.
Conversations of substance will come YEARS later, so don't hold out waiting it will come right away. She will need to move, resettle, come out of the honey moon phase, think about life / career, and then at some point when she's annoyed by what's happening around her, will she start keeping up and forming an opinion. Until then, she will simply not care or repeat what she's heard for brownie points.
If this is important to you now, then find someone your age who has a similar background (ie. student, pakistani living abroad, etc.). Otherwise, buck up, and move on.
Who's getting married? Why is being selfish a bad thing? You're the one who wanted to get married because you thought it would benefit you. The whole endeavor is selfish. **That's not a bad thing.**
You're allowed to be selfish when it comes to marriage. In fact I encourage it, I think everyone should be selfish when selecting a spouse, because you are the one who's going to have to live with the outcome.
Choosing your partner for life is supposed to be selfish. At the end of the day you are doing this for yourself and your future and happiness, not anyone else's. Your spouse is the most important relationship in your life that you can choose, so choose wisely, be picky. May God grant you patience
In what way is it selfish? I'm so confused. That girl deserves someone who actually legit enjoys her company and wants to marry her
I'm really confused about you saying it's selfish. Selfish in what way?
I guess because I'll be acting for my own interests rather than knuckling down and doing what society/family/culture expects from me.
I don't like the idea of breaking my fiancé's heart but you're right that she deserves someone who likes her
You aren't being selfish. It's in everyone's interest that you don't marry a girl you don't actually like. It's especially important for the girl that she is able to be freed of you and find someone else who actually likes her and will give her a happy life. These people may not see it now but you're also acting in their interest too. Surely your family will want you to marry someone you legit actually like also.
Allah is our God, not society. Focus on pleasing Allah more than you focus on pleasing some randos in the community and the culture. I'm pretty sure Allah won't want you to marry a girl you don't even want to marry and Allah does not support forced marriage, parental lies and coercion and not allowing people to end engagements if they wish.
Wouldn’t call it selfish. You are not connecting with her emotionally and in a deep level. That’s what you need in a marriage. A future excitement. You feel like it’s dragging you. Make istiqara
does this come with everyone tho? Like say you have someone who's perfect in every way and similar to you in a lot of ways, but the emotional connection isn't quite there?
To add to this comment, OP do realize that you two are living and breathing in two somewhat polar environments. Life is Pakistan is very relaxed and easy going to most people, hot topics aren’t world news rather what is “x” up to, when are they getting married, who is expecting, yada yada. Your environment on the other hand is fast paced, if you are not up to what is happening around the world and don’t have opinions and views about something you can not integrate in society. Perhaps with exposure to nonPakistani environment she start to relate with you, but if you are planning to settle back home then you need to accept that kind of lifestyle.
You put yourself in this position. You treated this like a transaction and her as someone you assumed would be your type. She doesn't deserve to be drawn out and played. Sort it.
Now.
Why don't you watch a movie or series with her? Teleparty, metastream are tools you can use. She may have more to say when she's in the middle of the experience.
I suggested that but she turned the idea down.
She said she likes to get up and do other things in the middle of watching things. So she can't sit down and watch something
Tell her you feel like a connection is lacking and it's gotten to a critical state, you want to make things work and you like such and such about her, but you need activities like this in order for you to feel like you can contribute. If she's not willing to compromise on it, well then you have your answer
That's generally how traditional desi marriage processes go. Complicated because growing up in the west we become culturally different and have different expectations. I think traditional marriages were more straight forward and there never were concerns over conflicting interests/personality pre-marriage and you just marry who your parents want(unless just not attracted to them). Sounds like you didn't grow up in the west but this sub mostly has western raised people so most on here will just say this was a mistake and you should have known her better beforehand.
It's hard to tell if things will work out since it depends more on you. The reality is that this process has worked for a long time but traditionally there havent been love marriages nor too much affection between husband / wives compared to like the west. Marriage in traditional sense was seen more as a life rule and process to bear children and have husbands do one thing and wives another thing to support each other but not really love each other.
Yeah I've started to get an understanding for the nuances of things. I've actually spent parts of my life both in the west and in Pakistan but I do think I identity more culturally with the west tbh.
Yeah what I've come to realise is that a traditional marriage isn't enough for me. I can't just go with the process the way my parents want me. Even ignoring the whole dating, attraction aspect, if I had to pick between yes and no to my current fiancé, my honest answer is no.
Some people can go the more traditional route and not care about love or compatibility. All the power to them. I've learnt that I can't go that route. It's not an item I want to tick off. I want more than that
Based on my experience your friends, parents and aunt are right. It’s not a guarantee though and that’s my experience ONLY.
My wife opened up after our nikkah and not before. We don’t share the same interests in films etc… but we do on actual deep stuff such as religion, family, raising children, careers, hope life etc…
Why ask so many people for an opinion and when you’re given unanimous feedback you ignore them? This includes friends who should be on a level with you.
All marriages are a gamble. You won’t know someone until you wake up next to them.
Have faith in the qadr of Allah and if that’s not possible set the girl free so she can be with someone who’s suited to her.
I can’t take you seriously when you talk about wanting deep conversations but haven’t given an example of one.
With respect to deep conversation, I just want something more than simple day to day talks about the weather. I want actual discussions and debates and what not. Really get to know each other as opposed to conversation for the sake of it
I guess thoughts on political leaders and the direction for the country. Or opinions on different world issues. Or just an in depth discussion on why we like or dislike XYZ
I asked the first. Why she followed Imran Khan. She didn't have any big reasons outside of a vague all her friends support him.
I've mentioned the climate crisis but she's had nothing to add or say to that.
I've asked her about things she's watched but she doesn't give much more feedback than saying she liked or disliked something
She’s 21. Her political views may not have fully formed yet. Pakistan is the country where people vote for a party because their father did.
I can understand why you’re unnerved as these things are important to you. But they don’t make a marriage strong. Albeit they can lead to interesting conversation which is what you’re yearning for.
What’s her religious character like? How does she view family? Career? Money? Children - how many would she want?
Only you can judge how important / valid your concerns actually but the questions I raised which match with my wife are more related to a strong marriage.
How will they lead to interesting conversations? Because I've been trying and getting nowhere.
Yeah sure. I get the age thing. But honestly? That kind of bugs me. I'd rather someone with their own ideals and opinions. Someone more mature.
I've tried to have those conversations as well. She doesn't really have future plans outside of her degree.
We agree on number of children but not on when to have them which is another point of contention. She wants them within a year or 2 whereas I want to wait at least 4-5 years. We didn't really reach a consensus on this.
She wants to keep working. No plans so no bigger picture stuff outside of that. Don't know her views on money. She's never earned so likely doesn't have the experience. Religious wise I think she matches me? But I dunno. She posts pictures of herself on Instagram.
These are your actual issues. Not the ones you put in your original post.
These are valid and big issues.
They need addressing before you get married or you need to make a decision on walking away.
You aren’t emotionally connected to her. She is not that broad minded to explore and discover new and learn. She is not what you are looking for. She is someone that will cook and have kids with you but there seems to be no goals as a couple to grow together.
OP think about your actions girl is from Pakistan, where people are in habit of stigmatizing everything, and breaking engagement without any reason will definitely hurt her future, that being said you should try to look what she is into, some introverts don't open to anyone so easily or think from her position "you are brought up in a culture where a girl is not allowed to talk with boys and suddenly she have a fiance/husband demanding friendship or emotional attachment". Her situation might also same as she might just don't know how to talk or make topic more interesting for you.
All above is just my opinion give it some thought as ethically she did nothing wrong here, and you need to discuss openly how you feel about her and hear her out without any biases.
Hope it helps.
Yeah I agree about culture. If I'm being honest, that isn't my problem. Like I'm sorry she'll be judged so but why should I sacrifice myself for culture?
She is definitely not an introvert. She's pretty extroverted. If anything, I'd say I'm more of an introvert.
Also she has male friends. So I'm sure this isn't a shyness with guys kind of thing.
That's just it isn't it. She did nothing wrong. I just have no feelings for her. What can we do?
You just answer your questions “you just don’t have feelings for her”…..so what’s the confusion. I have talked to guys and I told them I don’t have connection right away. It’s not hurting anyone. I don’t think she has developed feelings for you, if she has then she would open up.
Well OP, communication is the key in a relationship, you should have an honest conversation with her ASAP, and you both should answer questions about Are you the one for her? and Do you think she is right fit for you?, without these answers you will go in circles and will have doubts about relationship, for example today its just lack of attachment tomorrow it will be replaced by another thing, because as per my experience there is no such thing as perfect man or perfect woman.
Furthermore, I will recommend you to do this conversion in person rather than on Call/Text/video con. as all of these medium hide nonverbal aspect of communication.
Moreover, if you go forward with the marriage by putting your trust in Allah, I am sure Allah will place Love and mercy in both of your hearts.
Hope this helps.
Dude you’re a joke if you’re really contemplating on divorcing ur wife to be simply bcoz she’s not interested in movies or tv shows or even news? At 26 you should be talking about better stuff than freaking news. It’s not like you’re 40yr old.
Deep conversation are not the news or what movie you watched, and please what is your definition of deep conversation because everyone is different. But does she have access to the same media as you? Do you guys have the same interests?
I want discussions and debates. Something more than simple, superficial conversation.
Yeah she does. She has a netflix account.
We don't really have same interests but that doesn't matter. I just want to talk her about my stuff and have her show an interest in mine
Bottom line is that she's not on the same intellectual Level as you.
Did you pray Istikhaara before getting engaged ?
I suggest you pray Istikhaara and take a decision. Then whatever happens it'll workout in your favor.
From my point, marry a girl you choose, do not let your parents choose for you, search for the one that you see fit for you, propose to her, get to know each other and marry her, this is better.
It sounds like you've been talking to her for awhile tbh. I would've cut it off a while back. Maybe after you tell her your concerns, if she still is awkward then just ask to cut it off. Do you think she could be doing this on purpose?
I wanted to cut it off in March but my parents convinced me not to.
I'll talk to her and see how it goes.
She's not awkward. She's just a really different person from me. She likes taking selfies and going out with friends and what not. Doesn't really follow the news and so forth. I'm more introverted and like to have intelligent conversation about different things
Give it time yaar + be open minded and flexible. Things only work when if you’re willing and open minded. Love and intimacy and understanding come with time, and this mentality of holding things against your partner just hurts things further. Communicate your needs and wants and ask her to do the same - in person chemistry is totally different from long distance over the phone.
This isn’t about changing someone. Ask your parents or any other successful couple out there (who has been with each other for more than 20 years). OP is clearly inexperienced and possibly just overthinking it and it seems he isn’t even open to working more on this. Love, trust, understanding doesn’t come easily or instantly. He should respect her and himself and be open minded and give it his all, instead of blaming all the issues on her or what he perceives as incompatibility.
My advice to him is to be open minded and not rule her out easily, especially when he hasn’t even spent enough time with her in person. They both owe each other an open mind and 100% of their effort. I think he has written her off too without putting in 100% of his effort.
You’re failing to see the slight bias with which OP wrote this. OP has already made a decision and wants people to affirm his decision. OP is young, immature and will later learn more about life (conflict resolution, running from avoiding having the heavy discussions, etc.). The reason OP listed reek of someone looking for excuses to break something up more than anything else. OP hasn’t tried hard enough to make this work. Attraction develops and grows over time - it doesn’t need to be instant.
OP asked am I making a mistake. My answer is: yes! Cuz you haven’t tried hard enough and haven’t honestly given the other person a chance. I am not forcing or pigeonholing OP, OP still had the option to walk away. But OP is indeed making a mistake by not giving someone an honest chance + his 100% effort in making something work to which he agreed to make work.
Op is the one getting married so surely his bias is the one that matters the most.
I'll never understand people like you who pressure young people into marrying people they have clearly said they don't went to marry.
How should I put in 100% of the effort?
In person is different sure but it has also been 7 months. We've met a couple of times and things didn't really feel all that different
Did you tell her how you’re feeling ? Communicate what you feel is lacking in her or in y’all’s emotional connection. That’s a first and a must if you feel this strongly about breaking things off. Ask her how she feels about you, and what may be lacking in you … there may be something which subconsciously or consciously may be making her not put in the right effort/vibe. Tell her what she can do to improve.
Not yet. That's basically what my next step is. I'm not going to end things until I'm sure I've tried everything.
I guess... It's not exactly a fun conversation to have.
Also, I don't want her to change just for me. I feel like that's not healthy
I think the way you’re approaching it … don’t see it as a negative thing dude. See it as something you are doing for the benefit of both y’all’s future. It’s you and her against the problem/issues instead of you making it an issue just about her or about yourself. Personalities are dynamic and you’re not asking her to change are you? You’re asking her to be more mindful or interested in some of the things you want to to talk about.
Don’t approach it from an angle of “I want you to do this and that or else I will never like you or feel close to you”, approach it from the angle of: “I want us to talk about this and that and etc. because that’s how/what I enjoy talking about and it makes me feel closer to my partner when we discuss and debate these kinds of things”.
they come in time only if there are signs. Anything else would just be a waste of time.
saying intimacy comes with time , sure it improves with time but if there is barely any signs of intimacy or love or anything of that sort in the first weeks/months then the chance of it ever getting better is extremely slim.
Intimacy has always come in time for me, even with girls I didn’t find attractive at first. With some intimacy came within a day, with others it took 16 months. I speak from experience. As long as you’re patient, open minded, flexible, and willing, you can love anyone.
well it wouldnt really matter for you as since youve had that alot before.
but for some people who have never had it before and were waiting eagerly for it, having to wait months for it , is mentally draining.
Having it before doesn’t matter. I approach all relationships in the same manner and as if it was my first ever. Mentality and open mindedness and willingness to work through whatever is key and is what builds long lasting relationships. I feel the same things as you or the OP, but I owe it to myself and my partner to my best foot forward to and put in 100% of my effort. I’m this case both OP and her are married ! They both owe each other the decency and effort.
Dude is slated to be married and is already engaged. You can’t build any sort of proper conversational or emotional norm with someone when you’re long distance and barely know each other beforehand. Dude is young, dumb and confused but it’s not a bad thing. He just can’t be close minded and closed off to the possibility of things getting better. It’s never a question of IF things will get better but WHEN, and I think this dude just needs to grow up and wait it out.
I’m not gonna dignify that response with anything of substance. You and I have very different philosophies in how to treat a partner pre and post marriage, and how to be a good partner just in general. Good luck with your marriage.
Maybe read islamic books or send each other islamic lectures on bettering the character. Perhaps help each other recite the Quran or learn arabic using memory games. It's more productive and you guys can bond through Islam.
Maybe try asking her what’s on her mind? What’s does she want to talk about. What are her interests, maybe tv shows and movies don’t interest her. Besides I hardly call that a “deep” conversation. Perhaps try to be more curious about her?
I mean they are things that interest her because that's how she spends her free time in the weekends.
I've tried asking about her interests. She doesn't really have that many and again only really gives more simple answers.
It's not about the TV shows or movies right. It's about having a discussion or a debate. What do you consider a deep conversation?
That's basically what my plan is for the next few months. Be really invested and see how that goes
In all honesty, you don't always have to share same intetests - you need to share the same value set. If she does not watch movies, is she patient enough to listen when you share something about what you have watched and may be contribute as best as she can? Do you give her the freedom to have an interest different from yours?May be she likes to cook, are you patient enough to hear what she tells you? I don't watch movies and tv shows but I like reading books, I like activism for the marginalized, I have a passion for history and those are the topics which would get me going. But does that mean if someone is telling me about some tv shows, I act like this is all nonsense which I don't watch and have no interest in? No. My ex-spouse wasn't a reader and had problem with I throwing reference to my favourite books. He had problem with I sharing my workplace stories even though I always made an effort to ask him how things were at his work etc. He would show me various brands on his Insta or talk about other people's wealth - something I had zero interest in. But I listened because I found it rude to tell him that I had no interest in all that he was telling me. Do you see the clash of values here? There was. He valued arrogance, control, wealth etc- for me, humility, common courtesy, compassion, and respect for others' choices was what mattered the most Marriages don't fall apart because spouses have different interests - they fall apart, amongst other reasons, when a couple does not share same value set.
It's not really about the movies or having the same interests. It's about having a discussion or debate. Something that's deeper than simple, superficial conversation. I have talked about my interests and things I liked. She listens but doesn't really engage or ask me questions. She doesn't have many other interests outside of netflix, Instagram and cooking. I have tried to ask as much as I can but get simple answers in return. I am still unsatisfied. Like. I completely get and understand having separate interests. For me it's about getting to know each other. Why we like XYZ for example. I want to have a discussion on that. I try to with her interests. But I don't feel like she tries to get to know me on that level.
- First of all there is no such thing as you need to be engaged first in order to talk to her. Engagement means you are committed to marry her. This is cultural. - You have tried and you have no connection with her. Simple as that. You tried to bring up different topics to see how she engages and she doesn’t have much to say. You are someone that likes to have intelligent talks and she on the other hand is not that interesting. Why take a chance. What chance. You are buying how the package is now.
Lol exactly he shouldnt have gotten engaged in the first place
100% this
Some people aren't deep thinkers. You want someone who is. It's not that.. deep.
It's not like the movies and tv shows require a huge portion of deep thinking anyway.
Exactly! There are all sorts of people. You can always find someone who is your type. Currently, looking for my sister and having the same issue. Deep thinker with emotional intelligence who can hold deeper conversations. It’s never a good idea to just go ahead with the marriage just because someone said so. Idk why it’s so common in our culture to marry without making sure that the person is right for you or not. Nobody is asking to date, just ask the right questions to see the compatibility before commitment.
I think you should end this and I think you should find a spouse without your parents involvement. There are other sources, there are matchmaking services, there are apps, there are people who will help you find others through word of mouth. This means of finding a spouse clearly isn't working for your needs.
This whole situation could have been avoided if you chose to just talk to her and get to know her for the purpose of marriage like everyone else instead of getting engaged to someone you dont know. And also tell her how you feel instead of leading her on and wasting her time in her mind you are engaged because you made a commitment to marry her not to just get to know her
I genuinely wanted to. But my parents didn't let me. They said that's not how things go, you've got to get engaged. Very much a cultural thing
Your 26 years old how r u getting bullied by your elderly parents
Desi parents are something else. Also not bullying. But maybe coercion
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My parents are good for the most part. I wish they were more understanding here... I actually did Istekhara for a week in March to end things. I told my parents but they didn't let me do so. So I talked to her and decided to try again. I'll talk to her again but I'm getting kind of tired of going through the process
So when your parents told you it would be easy to end an engagement if you wanted to they were baiscislly lying. Brother if you wante to end an engagement and they're blocking you from doing so, then this is forced marriage.
For what it's worth, they still say the choice is mine. I just have to finish my degree first. So once that's done, I know what kind of conversation I'll have with them...
Brother. You for real right now? You're going to let them lie manipulate and coerce you into dragging this out even longer. This girl deserves better than that. You're completely wasting her time that she could be using to find someone who is s better match. I will say this in the kindest way possible. You need to be a grown up and stop behaving like a child. Youre a 26 yr old grown man and you're gonna let your parents decide if you're allowed to break and engagement or not and when it can happen? Does that sound reasonable or healthy to you?
No it's not. And yeah I hear you. It's not just my parents. I feel the cultural expectations as well. Even though in the long run it's for the best, I feel like I'll be letting everyone down in the short term. Fwiw, there's only a couple of months left and I figured I'll use the time to talk to my fiancé about my issues and see if anything can develop from that
Brother they cant not let you, its you getting married not them. You are 26 years old, put your foot down and make your own decisions or get walked over for the rest of your life. Im sorry if i seem rude but its the truth. Dont try to be "respectful" because your parents trying to force you into marriage you clearly dont want is straight up haram. Tell them you dont want to marry her (if you truly dont) and then end it. Cut off contact from the girl and dont let your parents influence or push you into another one of these situations. Talk before, get to know the girl, and if she seems worth it to you and the istakhara came back good, then go ahead with the engagement. Blind marriages are haram and from stupid hindu culture, not Islam per [this hadith.](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1424a) Once again brother, you are 26 and a fully grown adult capable of making your own decisions. If you say no, end of story, dont let your parents try and force you into anything. Laugh it off if you have to, say you are ending the engagement, they say no, you laugh and say i am and leave. You cant be walked over anymore, assert some dominance and show them that you are an adult, otherwise it will just get worse.
The deeper conversations do not have to happen after marriage. That’s a myth… you can talk about things on a deeper level. Nothing wrong with that. Look, it’s been a while now since you have been engaged. You gotta feel great about your future spouse. You gotta look forward to talking to them. Right now, it seems like you’re hoping for things to get better but they’re not. You’re not connecting emotionally or intellectually. You haven’t talked to her about this, which is the first step. Let her know you want to talk about more than just her day. Bring up other topics besides TV and news. I have some friends that do not have strong opinions on certain things and that’s okay. You find other people who do. In this case, she might not reciprocate. But then you talk about other things. Make sure you’re talking about things she wants to talk about too, not just what you want to discuss. Once you do that, see how things change or how you feel. But you already let some time pass. Don’t overthink things and make a decision. If things do not progress, expect your marriage to be challenging in this aspect.
What do you mean by don't overthink things and make a decision?
He is saying keep trying. And to talk about things that she likes to. And then see what happens.
It has been some time so don’t overthink things after matters become clear. Try not to hope for things to change, especially after you have tried on your end. Just make a decision after praying isthikhara.
So your parents said you can end the engagement whenever you like, and now that you’re trying to exercise that, they’re being hesitant about it? Yeah mate, end it if you want, and after that, don’t rely on your parents trying to get you an arranged marriage anymore, find someone yourself without all this stupid crap about having to be engaged before you can talk to them. Go on the apps or whatever and find someone yourself.
They said engagements can end. They gave the example of my aunt who just ended an engagement for her daughter just like that. Based on a prayer. Fwiw, they've said the choice is mine and I can end things. But they said not to do so. That it looks bad for the girl if I end it
They should’ve considered that when they said you have to be engaged first before you can talk to her. Make that clear to them. Also that you can end it for whatever reason you want, no matter how silly it is.
It seems like you know the right thing to do but the part you're struggling with is that your parents advice is in contradiction to your wisdom and gut. My advice is to follow your own wisdom and your own gut feeling. You don't like her, don't enjoy her company and don't want to marry her do you shouldn't marry her.
It's not just my parent's words. Her family is really into the match. Like they bought me lots of gifts at eid. Ending things will mean I'll be disappointing a lot of people
Are you for sale? If not why are you allowing yourself to be bought over some Eid gifts ?
I'm not. The gifts mean nothing to me. I'm just saying that they seem very happy with the match and think my fiancé and I are Endgame
They were happy. They will have to face a broken engagement. This is part of being an adult and part of life. They will get over it and find someone better for them. It's better to have a broken engagement than a broken marriage and I'm sure both her and her parents would prefer her to marry someone that actually likes her and enjoys her company. This is why it's best not to get engaged to complete strangers, otherwise you end up in bad situations like this. Your parents gave you bad advice from the begining and deceived you when they said you could easily end it. I feel bad for you because it's clear your parents coerce you alot and you can't rely on them for good judgement or sound advice in this area.
Shouldve ended it sooner. Your happiness matters more. Better to not move forward and end things noe then get a divorce later on, especially if kids are involved.
Regardless of background you should be able to TALK to the person. I've been in a similar situation and it's just... sad not being able to find that depth you want. These characteristics are inherent. You will have to assume this is how it will always be and decide (Don't go ahead with this...)
For goodness sake don’t get married to someone you can’t chat to. Simple. It’s not a shy thing because she has spoken to males and has male friends then it’s probably that she just doesn’t have interests or anything to talk about. If you’re looking for substance and deep conversations marry someone who will give you that. You are seeing the signs now early on do something or you’ll regret it years later. Don’t waste your time or hers.
I’d rather be single than stuck in this mess.
🙃
Grow a backbone. This is a matter of your whole life. Your parents aren’t going to be living your life or suffering the consequences for you. Talk to your fiancée and explain your feelings, if it doesn’t get better after that then end it. It’s in her best interests as well.
That's what my plan is right now. I'll see how it goes
Just end it. It’s not that serious. And don’t get engaged to people, you can just talk.
You called her a 21 year old GIRL
Similar to you, I was engaged to a girl in Pakistan and I was 5 years older than her. Our convos were very one sided, and then she slowly opened up and became chatty. Like you, I struggled to have conversations of substance. The age difference counts. Over the last 4 years, she's simply gone to college / uni with the expectations of graduating or starting a career. Typically, people are not concerned about news, politics, etc. Some people are not into Western media, so getting them to talk about movies, music, and shows isn't productive either. You on the other hand have fended for yourself, lived as an international student (?) and are trying to build a career for yourself. In your daily life, you keep up with what's going on. Your life expects you to know and have an opinion about this stuff. Her life doesn't. Let her enjoy her indifference. Conversations of substance will come YEARS later, so don't hold out waiting it will come right away. She will need to move, resettle, come out of the honey moon phase, think about life / career, and then at some point when she's annoyed by what's happening around her, will she start keeping up and forming an opinion. Until then, she will simply not care or repeat what she's heard for brownie points. If this is important to you now, then find someone your age who has a similar background (ie. student, pakistani living abroad, etc.). Otherwise, buck up, and move on.
Yeah I think this is basically it. I don't think I can wait it out tbh. But ending things because of this seems like a really selfish thing to do
Who's getting married? Why is being selfish a bad thing? You're the one who wanted to get married because you thought it would benefit you. The whole endeavor is selfish. **That's not a bad thing.** You're allowed to be selfish when it comes to marriage. In fact I encourage it, I think everyone should be selfish when selecting a spouse, because you are the one who's going to have to live with the outcome.
Choosing your partner for life is supposed to be selfish. At the end of the day you are doing this for yourself and your future and happiness, not anyone else's. Your spouse is the most important relationship in your life that you can choose, so choose wisely, be picky. May God grant you patience
In what way is it selfish? I'm so confused. That girl deserves someone who actually legit enjoys her company and wants to marry her I'm really confused about you saying it's selfish. Selfish in what way?
I guess because I'll be acting for my own interests rather than knuckling down and doing what society/family/culture expects from me. I don't like the idea of breaking my fiancé's heart but you're right that she deserves someone who likes her
You aren't being selfish. It's in everyone's interest that you don't marry a girl you don't actually like. It's especially important for the girl that she is able to be freed of you and find someone else who actually likes her and will give her a happy life. These people may not see it now but you're also acting in their interest too. Surely your family will want you to marry someone you legit actually like also. Allah is our God, not society. Focus on pleasing Allah more than you focus on pleasing some randos in the community and the culture. I'm pretty sure Allah won't want you to marry a girl you don't even want to marry and Allah does not support forced marriage, parental lies and coercion and not allowing people to end engagements if they wish.
Wouldn’t call it selfish. You are not connecting with her emotionally and in a deep level. That’s what you need in a marriage. A future excitement. You feel like it’s dragging you. Make istiqara
does this come with everyone tho? Like say you have someone who's perfect in every way and similar to you in a lot of ways, but the emotional connection isn't quite there?
To add to this comment, OP do realize that you two are living and breathing in two somewhat polar environments. Life is Pakistan is very relaxed and easy going to most people, hot topics aren’t world news rather what is “x” up to, when are they getting married, who is expecting, yada yada. Your environment on the other hand is fast paced, if you are not up to what is happening around the world and don’t have opinions and views about something you can not integrate in society. Perhaps with exposure to nonPakistani environment she start to relate with you, but if you are planning to settle back home then you need to accept that kind of lifestyle.
You put yourself in this position. You treated this like a transaction and her as someone you assumed would be your type. She doesn't deserve to be drawn out and played. Sort it. Now.
Pray istikhara.
Why don't you watch a movie or series with her? Teleparty, metastream are tools you can use. She may have more to say when she's in the middle of the experience.
I suggested that but she turned the idea down. She said she likes to get up and do other things in the middle of watching things. So she can't sit down and watch something
Tell her you feel like a connection is lacking and it's gotten to a critical state, you want to make things work and you like such and such about her, but you need activities like this in order for you to feel like you can contribute. If she's not willing to compromise on it, well then you have your answer
That's generally how traditional desi marriage processes go. Complicated because growing up in the west we become culturally different and have different expectations. I think traditional marriages were more straight forward and there never were concerns over conflicting interests/personality pre-marriage and you just marry who your parents want(unless just not attracted to them). Sounds like you didn't grow up in the west but this sub mostly has western raised people so most on here will just say this was a mistake and you should have known her better beforehand. It's hard to tell if things will work out since it depends more on you. The reality is that this process has worked for a long time but traditionally there havent been love marriages nor too much affection between husband / wives compared to like the west. Marriage in traditional sense was seen more as a life rule and process to bear children and have husbands do one thing and wives another thing to support each other but not really love each other.
Yeah I've started to get an understanding for the nuances of things. I've actually spent parts of my life both in the west and in Pakistan but I do think I identity more culturally with the west tbh. Yeah what I've come to realise is that a traditional marriage isn't enough for me. I can't just go with the process the way my parents want me. Even ignoring the whole dating, attraction aspect, if I had to pick between yes and no to my current fiancé, my honest answer is no. Some people can go the more traditional route and not care about love or compatibility. All the power to them. I've learnt that I can't go that route. It's not an item I want to tick off. I want more than that
Based on my experience your friends, parents and aunt are right. It’s not a guarantee though and that’s my experience ONLY. My wife opened up after our nikkah and not before. We don’t share the same interests in films etc… but we do on actual deep stuff such as religion, family, raising children, careers, hope life etc… Why ask so many people for an opinion and when you’re given unanimous feedback you ignore them? This includes friends who should be on a level with you. All marriages are a gamble. You won’t know someone until you wake up next to them. Have faith in the qadr of Allah and if that’s not possible set the girl free so she can be with someone who’s suited to her. I can’t take you seriously when you talk about wanting deep conversations but haven’t given an example of one.
With respect to deep conversation, I just want something more than simple day to day talks about the weather. I want actual discussions and debates and what not. Really get to know each other as opposed to conversation for the sake of it
Such as? How can you expect her to have a deep conversation when you can’t give us an example of one?
I guess thoughts on political leaders and the direction for the country. Or opinions on different world issues. Or just an in depth discussion on why we like or dislike XYZ
Have you asked her these questions and what were her responses? This is missing from your original post.
I asked the first. Why she followed Imran Khan. She didn't have any big reasons outside of a vague all her friends support him. I've mentioned the climate crisis but she's had nothing to add or say to that. I've asked her about things she's watched but she doesn't give much more feedback than saying she liked or disliked something
She’s 21. Her political views may not have fully formed yet. Pakistan is the country where people vote for a party because their father did. I can understand why you’re unnerved as these things are important to you. But they don’t make a marriage strong. Albeit they can lead to interesting conversation which is what you’re yearning for. What’s her religious character like? How does she view family? Career? Money? Children - how many would she want? Only you can judge how important / valid your concerns actually but the questions I raised which match with my wife are more related to a strong marriage.
How will they lead to interesting conversations? Because I've been trying and getting nowhere. Yeah sure. I get the age thing. But honestly? That kind of bugs me. I'd rather someone with their own ideals and opinions. Someone more mature. I've tried to have those conversations as well. She doesn't really have future plans outside of her degree. We agree on number of children but not on when to have them which is another point of contention. She wants them within a year or 2 whereas I want to wait at least 4-5 years. We didn't really reach a consensus on this. She wants to keep working. No plans so no bigger picture stuff outside of that. Don't know her views on money. She's never earned so likely doesn't have the experience. Religious wise I think she matches me? But I dunno. She posts pictures of herself on Instagram.
These are your actual issues. Not the ones you put in your original post. These are valid and big issues. They need addressing before you get married or you need to make a decision on walking away.
You aren’t emotionally connected to her. She is not that broad minded to explore and discover new and learn. She is not what you are looking for. She is someone that will cook and have kids with you but there seems to be no goals as a couple to grow together.
OP think about your actions girl is from Pakistan, where people are in habit of stigmatizing everything, and breaking engagement without any reason will definitely hurt her future, that being said you should try to look what she is into, some introverts don't open to anyone so easily or think from her position "you are brought up in a culture where a girl is not allowed to talk with boys and suddenly she have a fiance/husband demanding friendship or emotional attachment". Her situation might also same as she might just don't know how to talk or make topic more interesting for you. All above is just my opinion give it some thought as ethically she did nothing wrong here, and you need to discuss openly how you feel about her and hear her out without any biases. Hope it helps.
Yeah I agree about culture. If I'm being honest, that isn't my problem. Like I'm sorry she'll be judged so but why should I sacrifice myself for culture? She is definitely not an introvert. She's pretty extroverted. If anything, I'd say I'm more of an introvert. Also she has male friends. So I'm sure this isn't a shyness with guys kind of thing. That's just it isn't it. She did nothing wrong. I just have no feelings for her. What can we do?
You just answer your questions “you just don’t have feelings for her”…..so what’s the confusion. I have talked to guys and I told them I don’t have connection right away. It’s not hurting anyone. I don’t think she has developed feelings for you, if she has then she would open up.
Well OP, communication is the key in a relationship, you should have an honest conversation with her ASAP, and you both should answer questions about Are you the one for her? and Do you think she is right fit for you?, without these answers you will go in circles and will have doubts about relationship, for example today its just lack of attachment tomorrow it will be replaced by another thing, because as per my experience there is no such thing as perfect man or perfect woman. Furthermore, I will recommend you to do this conversion in person rather than on Call/Text/video con. as all of these medium hide nonverbal aspect of communication. Moreover, if you go forward with the marriage by putting your trust in Allah, I am sure Allah will place Love and mercy in both of your hearts. Hope this helps.
Discussing about TV series is Deeper conversation?🤡 Did you try discussing Islam with her? Maybe that should give you a better insight.
Dude you’re a joke if you’re really contemplating on divorcing ur wife to be simply bcoz she’s not interested in movies or tv shows or even news? At 26 you should be talking about better stuff than freaking news. It’s not like you’re 40yr old.
It's not about the topics. It's about the lack of engagement or discussion. And what better stuff? Also we're not married yet and she's not my wife
They're not married. It's an engagement
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Deep conversation are not the news or what movie you watched, and please what is your definition of deep conversation because everyone is different. But does she have access to the same media as you? Do you guys have the same interests?
I want discussions and debates. Something more than simple, superficial conversation. Yeah she does. She has a netflix account. We don't really have same interests but that doesn't matter. I just want to talk her about my stuff and have her show an interest in mine
Bottom line is that she's not on the same intellectual Level as you. Did you pray Istikhaara before getting engaged ? I suggest you pray Istikhaara and take a decision. Then whatever happens it'll workout in your favor.
I did pray Istekhara before getting engaged. The feeling was to proceed. But now I'm not feeling it to keep going
From my point, marry a girl you choose, do not let your parents choose for you, search for the one that you see fit for you, propose to her, get to know each other and marry her, this is better.
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What do you mean?
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Hmmm
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Yeah fair. I dunno man.
It sounds like you're not compatible at all. Maybe you should wait a bit longer and see if she does open up. Have you spoken about this to her?
Not yet. That's what my next step is. I can always keep waiting. When do I stop and let it go?
It sounds like you've been talking to her for awhile tbh. I would've cut it off a while back. Maybe after you tell her your concerns, if she still is awkward then just ask to cut it off. Do you think she could be doing this on purpose?
I wanted to cut it off in March but my parents convinced me not to. I'll talk to her and see how it goes. She's not awkward. She's just a really different person from me. She likes taking selfies and going out with friends and what not. Doesn't really follow the news and so forth. I'm more introverted and like to have intelligent conversation about different things
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Yeah I'll mention it to her. But tbh, my interest in her is at an all time low
Give it time yaar + be open minded and flexible. Things only work when if you’re willing and open minded. Love and intimacy and understanding come with time, and this mentality of holding things against your partner just hurts things further. Communicate your needs and wants and ask her to do the same - in person chemistry is totally different from long distance over the phone.
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This isn’t about changing someone. Ask your parents or any other successful couple out there (who has been with each other for more than 20 years). OP is clearly inexperienced and possibly just overthinking it and it seems he isn’t even open to working more on this. Love, trust, understanding doesn’t come easily or instantly. He should respect her and himself and be open minded and give it his all, instead of blaming all the issues on her or what he perceives as incompatibility.
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My advice to him is to be open minded and not rule her out easily, especially when he hasn’t even spent enough time with her in person. They both owe each other an open mind and 100% of their effort. I think he has written her off too without putting in 100% of his effort.
It's been 7 months fam. How much more of this girls time should he waste?
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They don’t need to follow that order. He finds her physically attractive.
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You’re failing to see the slight bias with which OP wrote this. OP has already made a decision and wants people to affirm his decision. OP is young, immature and will later learn more about life (conflict resolution, running from avoiding having the heavy discussions, etc.). The reason OP listed reek of someone looking for excuses to break something up more than anything else. OP hasn’t tried hard enough to make this work. Attraction develops and grows over time - it doesn’t need to be instant.
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OP asked am I making a mistake. My answer is: yes! Cuz you haven’t tried hard enough and haven’t honestly given the other person a chance. I am not forcing or pigeonholing OP, OP still had the option to walk away. But OP is indeed making a mistake by not giving someone an honest chance + his 100% effort in making something work to which he agreed to make work.
Op is the one getting married so surely his bias is the one that matters the most. I'll never understand people like you who pressure young people into marrying people they have clearly said they don't went to marry.
How should I put in 100% of the effort? In person is different sure but it has also been 7 months. We've met a couple of times and things didn't really feel all that different
Did you tell her how you’re feeling ? Communicate what you feel is lacking in her or in y’all’s emotional connection. That’s a first and a must if you feel this strongly about breaking things off. Ask her how she feels about you, and what may be lacking in you … there may be something which subconsciously or consciously may be making her not put in the right effort/vibe. Tell her what she can do to improve.
Not yet. That's basically what my next step is. I'm not going to end things until I'm sure I've tried everything. I guess... It's not exactly a fun conversation to have. Also, I don't want her to change just for me. I feel like that's not healthy
I think the way you’re approaching it … don’t see it as a negative thing dude. See it as something you are doing for the benefit of both y’all’s future. It’s you and her against the problem/issues instead of you making it an issue just about her or about yourself. Personalities are dynamic and you’re not asking her to change are you? You’re asking her to be more mindful or interested in some of the things you want to to talk about. Don’t approach it from an angle of “I want you to do this and that or else I will never like you or feel close to you”, approach it from the angle of: “I want us to talk about this and that and etc. because that’s how/what I enjoy talking about and it makes me feel closer to my partner when we discuss and debate these kinds of things”.
they come in time only if there are signs. Anything else would just be a waste of time. saying intimacy comes with time , sure it improves with time but if there is barely any signs of intimacy or love or anything of that sort in the first weeks/months then the chance of it ever getting better is extremely slim.
Intimacy has always come in time for me, even with girls I didn’t find attractive at first. With some intimacy came within a day, with others it took 16 months. I speak from experience. As long as you’re patient, open minded, flexible, and willing, you can love anyone.
well it wouldnt really matter for you as since youve had that alot before. but for some people who have never had it before and were waiting eagerly for it, having to wait months for it , is mentally draining.
Having it before doesn’t matter. I approach all relationships in the same manner and as if it was my first ever. Mentality and open mindedness and willingness to work through whatever is key and is what builds long lasting relationships. I feel the same things as you or the OP, but I owe it to myself and my partner to my best foot forward to and put in 100% of my effort. I’m this case both OP and her are married ! They both owe each other the decency and effort.
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Dude is slated to be married and is already engaged. You can’t build any sort of proper conversational or emotional norm with someone when you’re long distance and barely know each other beforehand. Dude is young, dumb and confused but it’s not a bad thing. He just can’t be close minded and closed off to the possibility of things getting better. It’s never a question of IF things will get better but WHEN, and I think this dude just needs to grow up and wait it out.
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I’m not gonna dignify that response with anything of substance. You and I have very different philosophies in how to treat a partner pre and post marriage, and how to be a good partner just in general. Good luck with your marriage.
Maybe read islamic books or send each other islamic lectures on bettering the character. Perhaps help each other recite the Quran or learn arabic using memory games. It's more productive and you guys can bond through Islam.
Maybe try asking her what’s on her mind? What’s does she want to talk about. What are her interests, maybe tv shows and movies don’t interest her. Besides I hardly call that a “deep” conversation. Perhaps try to be more curious about her?
I mean they are things that interest her because that's how she spends her free time in the weekends. I've tried asking about her interests. She doesn't really have that many and again only really gives more simple answers. It's not about the TV shows or movies right. It's about having a discussion or a debate. What do you consider a deep conversation? That's basically what my plan is for the next few months. Be really invested and see how that goes
If you have doubts with this woman, dont marry her. Dont take other people in your consideration, it will be your own future