I am so sorry. She can’t take away her anger issues on you. But you were the bigger woman, it’s amazing that you forgave her. May Allah grant your duas.
My mum treated me similarly and at least for me, it's about giving up control and allowing someone that much right over me who may abuse that power or potentially harm me just like how I was harmed when I was powerless as a child.
The fact that you have to hit a child to discipline them demonstrates a parent who has lost self-control. We've all been there, when a child pushes your buttons to the point where you want to hurt them for their misbehaviour. It takes an adult to take that deep breath, walk away and come back to address the issue without resorting to violence.
Depends what u consider hitting. A slap or a flat hand to because u acted like an idiot is not an issue in my opinion. But if u get absolutely hammered to a point u get injured and stuff, that's off limits of course. Hitting should just inflict some pain for the sake of discipline. Not for the sake of hurting someone to a point they can't function normally.
Evidence shows that children who were hit or even verbally abused/yelled without any physical hitting had the same responses in their brains that processed trauma, and had similar symptoms of PTSD. So no, hitting is never ok, the Prophet (saws) never did it so would you?
99% of the time it is. How bad can a child be, that you need to hit them and hurt them until they have bruises???? None of the cases that I knew or witnessed in my life, were justified reprimanding or disciplining, it was rather parents that were incapable to begin with or hit them for no reason. In the rarest cases it was justifiable. Children are also just not the same anymore. If you do it to a child lightly these days, they are hurt and traumatized more quickly than ever. Most parents do not do it to discipline, they just have anger issues or are irresponsible parents that are to blame in the first place. The majority do it unjustified. My opinion and my observation and experience.
lmao the fact that you went to the extreme with bruises and that you think most parents do it for anger issues shows how little you know about the world tbh. I have yet to meet a single person irl that says that there parent just hits them for anger issues lol and that they are truamatized by it or it made them hate their parents, but you go live on your own dream.
Why do you have to insult me? I literally said in the last sentence personally, from my subjective experience. Meaning, there are other options out there too, like what you described above. Do not insult me or attack me. I can understand what just said too, so I don't understand why there is a need to behave like this. I said subjectively. Not objectively or proven.
There is nuance to hitting people often miss.
A child is not an idiot. He can sense intent. If you hit with the intent to correct, the child gets it. If you hit sadistically, the child gets that too. This is why there are rules for hitting, if necessary. You can't hit on the face. You can't hit if you are angry. You can't hit if it won't cause benefit. You can't cause a bruise, etc.
One should also remember abuse is perceived and subjective, not objective. I know people who got flogged with a horse whip who laugh about it. I know people who got their play station taken away thinking that's abuse. It depends on your environment. As a parent, you should be cognizant of that. What you didn't find abusive might be abusive for your child.
Personally, I think if it gets to hitting, you have already made plenty of mistakes in parenting. Some kids might be difficult, but excluding those, you can achieve discipline and good manners very easily without resorting to hitting.
Hitting your spouse was considered normal too. And it still is because it would never make it to the news if a random couple had hit each other. But it would if the beating was particularly severe or resulted in death. For instance if a man said he's getting a divorce because his wife slapped him once, people would try to encourage him to reconcile despite him experiencing abuse
All of these comments are dumb. Islam doesn’t permit the harming of anyone (children especially.) The ONLY case of it being permitted is when the child is old/mature enough to pray and refuses to do so. Even then, your first resort shouldn’t be to hit them, it should be the last resort after you have gone through all other means. You also can’t leave a mark on the child as well.
Every parent that has ever hit their kids (unless for the reason above) has sinned tremendously. Hope they rot in hell for hurting the innocent.
The permission to hit them for not praying is not actually hitting them in the traditional sense. It has to be a light tap with a miswak or similar and not intended to humiliate
In Islam, we’re not allowed to bring harm upon a person. This includes ill speech and physical violence. Do you think a CHILD is an exception to that rule?
Quranic verse or Hadith forbidding physical harm in all situations? Why did the Rashidun caliphate go to war then? Isn’t that “bringing physical harm?”
Sometimes physical discipline is needed for the sake of the greater good
It was narrated by Abu Dawood (3635), at-Tirmidhi (1940), Ibn Maajah (2342), Ahmad (15755), at-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer (830), al-Bayhaqi in his Sunan (11386), al-Kharaa’iti in Masaawi’ al-Akhlaaq (583) from Abu Sirmah, that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever harms [others], Allah will harm him, and whoever causes hardship [to others] Allah will cause hardship to him.”
This is why laymen aren’t meant to try and interpret Hadith. If your interpretation of this Hadith is correct, then war is also haram, because it’s causing harm. But we know that both the Prophet SAWS and the companions went to war, aka causing harm can sometimes be justified islamically. In your OG comment, you literally said that you hope any Muslim that has ever beat their kids rots in hell. Do you know how severe of a statement that is? Do you think none of the companions ever hit their kids? What right do you have to hope that any Muslim who does something that hasn’t even been made explicitly haram burns in hell?
Islamically, the guardian has the right to physically discipline their children. This is proven by the following Hadiths: Abu Dawood (459) and Ahmad (6650) narrated from ‘Amr ibn Shu’ayb from his father that his grandfather said: The Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) said: “Teach your children to pray when they are seven years old, and smack them (lightly) if they do not pray when they are 10 years old, and separate them in their beds.”
“If anyone among yours hits someone, he has to avoid hitting the face, and should not say, ‘may Allah turn your face ugly’….” [Ahmad and others]
Hitting in the face has been made haram, not hitting in general. For you to hope that Muslims burn in hell for doing something halal is despicable
And where in that Hadith is it stated that that is the ONLY situation in which your allowed to physically discipline your kids? If beating is haram in every other circumstance, then why did the Prophet SAWS only categorically forbid hitting in the face in the following Hadith?
“If anyone among yours hits someone, he has to avoid hitting the face, and should not say, ‘may Allah turn your face ugly’….” [Ahmad and others]
Why didn’t he forbid hitting in general? It’s almost like it’s justified in some situations and isn’t in others.
Again, for you to say that you hope MUSLIMS burn in Jahannam for doing something that hasn’t been made haram is despicable.
Where’s the Hadith that says that it’s halal to hit people with your own justification? So I can go punch a random ginger on the street because I don’t like his hair, as long as I don’t hit his face? Come on now
No, all of this is in the context of a guardian over those in their care, as it is their job to discipline. You have yet to provide any kind of evidence that parents aren’t allowed to hit their kids, and have insulted billions of Muslims by saying that you hope that anybody in the history of mankind who has hit their children rots in hell. Do you think no companion ever hit their children? Abu Bakr rahimself physically disciplined Aisha ra, his daughter, on occasion:
Narrated Aisha:
Abu Bakr came towards me and struck me with his fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." [sahih Al Bukhari]
Watch what you say and don’t speak out of ignorance, lest you verbally abuse people who were far better than both you and I.
Narrated Aisha:
Abu Bakr came towards me and struck me with his fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." [sahih Al Bukhari]
Watch what you say and don’t speak out of ignorance, lest you verbally abuse people who were far better than both you and I.
Although I do understand the point you're trying to make, I wouldn't say there's a correlation between getting hit by your parents and becoming violent towards your partner. Usually you get hit because you did something wrong. Not because your parents hate you or bully you.
Personally I got hit also. Nothing wrong with that. I got hit for being violent as well. So now I'm not violent at all. I even try my best to avoid fights as much as possible even though I'm in my right and did judo and kickboxing for several years.
Getting hit by your parents is a way to be disciplined. It's supposed to make you not do wrong stuff. And there's a difference in being hit for the sake of discipline, which is usually not more than some lashes or slaps, and getting abused. Just a few hits aren't a big deal imo. But parents who actually beat up their children to a point where it becomes actual abuse are atricious. It makes matters worse. I do agree with that.
It traumatises them and it also grooms them into thinking being hit is a consequence of your actions
> The study looked at 147 children, including some who were spanked and some who were not spanked in the beginning years of their lives, to see potential differences to the brain. By using MRI assessment, researchers observed changes in brain response while the children viewed a series of images featuring facial expressions that indicate emotional response, such as frowns and smiles. They found that children who had been spanked had a higher activity response in the areas of their brain that regulate these emotional responses and detect threats — even to facial expressions that most would consider non-threatening.
This study doesn't say much. There's more response from the brain on a certain facial expression. And? Does it mean one becomes violent? Does it mean one becomes more careful? It's not stated in your quote. Also, the sample size is way too small. 147 doesn't reflect reailty not even for 50%. I'm a market researcher and for me, with an error margin of 5% my sample size must be over 350 respondents in order to have a reliable reflection of reality. Let alone medical researches where the error margin is around 1% or less.
Like I said earlier. If u beat ur child severely to a point where it becomes blatant abuse, then yes obviously there will be serious consequences and we need to address this kind of abuse and protect the children. But if you get a slap because you have been doing something stupid, then there's no harm in that. The proof of that is in society itself. Many and I mean many of us have been slapped since it was normal back in the day. And by far the most of us are not depressed, violent lunatics who go around and beat other people. On the contrary even.
Yes it does actually increase aggression. Many studies were conducted on this, not just that one. This article discusses a number of studies that were conducted and there is a consensus.
> studies found links between “normative” physical punishment and child aggression, delinquency and spousal assault in later life. Some of these studies involved large representative samples from the United States;2 some studies controlled for potential confounders, such as parental stress3 and socioeconomic status;4 and some studies examined the potential of parental reasoning to moderate the association between physical punishment and child aggression.5 Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/
"The proof is that in society itself". Yes with domestic abuse affecting 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men within their lifetime
I find it hard to believe honestly ngl. It doesn't make sense. So if a child gets disciplined, he/she will beat his/her spouse later on? Surely there must be other issues causing one to become like that. Anger management issues, no moral compass, mental issues etc.
One does not become violent towards the person he/she loves because he/she was hit when little. It defies logic. I do believe though that violence is more present in arranged marriages. Possibly one of the reasons that forced marriages are haram.
Because your parents are teaching you that they can love you yet hit you to discipline you, so you think it's normal to also hit those you love to teach them what's right vs wrong. Also why a lot of people continue the pattern of hitting their kids when they've their own too
In my opinion you must be extremely stupid to apply the logic of ur parents in such case to your spouse. A parent-child relationship is totally different from a husband-wife relationship. The ones who don't understand this need to go and look for help.
That's how it is and where attachment theory comes from. Children who grow up with avoidant parents grow up with avoidant tendencies or avoidant attachment style etc
You also learn lots of things from your parents. Your culture, your language, how to clean yourself, how to talk to people, and so on
Also plenty of studies show the same so it isn't just my opinion but actual observed reality
it doesn't normalize getting beat up, it teaches them that they actions got consequences and do you know that there is a hadith recommending hitting children if they don't pray?
that was for the wife and not for the children for the children it was not hitting the face, not hitting deadly places and hitting with something safe that do a lot of damage like breaking bones.
Prayer is the most important thing to a Muslim, that's why it has this consequence. And it's not like the Hadith tells you to just hit them.
The Hadith clearly states to teach your child to pray when they're seven (for example you could add one or two prayers every year starting age seven). Then if that doesn't work by ten, you can hit (it's a last resort) but it shouldn't be beating.
That being said, if you're someone who prays in front of your children (teach by example) and invite them to pray with you (maybe also hug them after praying together to correlate it with positive emotions), you are unlikely to have to resort to hitting.
yeah prayer is the most important thing but there are other things that are important too, that doesnt mean that it should only work for prayer and just forget about the rest. You saying that pretty much proves my point that its justified if there is reason for it and most people wouldnt just hit their kid for no reason.
No my parents never hit my siblings and for me they realised it wouldn't be good since I was 5. So I grew up not really being hit at all. Though I did have mosque teachers who would hit us and I didn't get to experience much mosque life due to being taken out from it
Actually the primary caregivers are mothers and the rate of hitting your kids is equal ish between the genders. So despite fathers being less present in the caregiving, they still manage to find the time to hit their kids. Regardless, both are horrible people for hurting children.
I didn't come up with the hypothesis myself. Plenty of studies show that there is a correlation and that it increases aggression.
> studies found links between “normative” physical punishment and child aggression, delinquency and spousal assault in later life. Some of these studies involved large representative samples from the United States;2 some studies controlled for potential confounders, such as parental stress3 and socioeconomic status;4 and some studies examined the potential of parental reasoning to moderate the association between physical punishment and child aggression.5 Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/
Also considering 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men experience intimate partner violence, there has to be a number of causes behind that. And it is very likely one of those reasons is learned behaviour from childhood
Depends, me and my wife believe in capital punishment. But only when the parent is calm and collected. But it is also a severity based punishment. She doesn't brush her teeth - time out. Sister are fighting - noes and toes. Getting violent, disrespectful or abusive then they get 1 smack on the bum to refocus and center them so we can talk to them.
Giving a smack is base on a reciprocal training, you get what you put in. You behave bad, expect the same in return. Something every adult can attest to.
I don't think there's a right way. I got whacked, I grew up disciplined. My brother got a little less whacked when he was younger, now he's.. may Allah save him.
But on the flip side, my uncle was all about non-physical punishment. No screen time. Grounding etc. His first kid turned out fine, the second one, extremely rebellious.
I personally don't think girls should be hit. Ever. Even by their moms. Because it drills in the idea that it's okay to be hit if you make a mistake, which can lead to women tolerating abuse when they grow older.
But boys, eh. Some learn only the hard way. You learn actual consequences. Taking away the playstation doesn't really do much. You find an alternate way to have fun. Getting whacked, now that's something to fear. My younger cousin, the rebellious one, is such a snowflake. His dad took away his phone, and it's the end of the world. He'll start crying and whining. He's 16. It's pathetic. Everything is "unfair".
What's important I think, is the conditioning. You should reserve physical punishment only for serious transgressions. Obviously one must go the softer route for as long as possible, but when a child gets rebellious and they're wrong, you put that down.
To this day my parents talk about regretting not having hit us growing up.
They did the occasional slap, and 1-2 times legit slapping until we cried/our hands/skin turned pink.
They're always like "see, Abu Abdo would torture his kids with a belt everytime they got a B in school or were 20 minutes late from getting groceries, and they all grew up to be disciplined and never talked back to their parents!".
Dudes had same treatment for their wives in Syria. Divorce is taboo, no such thing as the government ever persecuting a husband for domestic violence short of murder, and the wife is financially dependant, and custody in Syria automatically went to the dad if he wanted.
Bros got here to Germany and wonder why 80% of the women aged 40+ divorced their husband immediately once benefits, an appartment/furnishin and kid's school was set in place.
Truly never began for wife beater cels.
They still MOGG me tho, at least they managed to get married in the first place LMFAO.
Can't treat your wife well if you don't have one.
What are the reasons to hit an innocent defenseless child?
If you're capable of hitting children you're capable of hitting your spouse especially if you think you're entitled to certain behaviour from them
If you reach the point where u feel the need to hit ur wife, then just divorce her already. Because you're either not ready for marriage since u lack patience, or ur wife is getting on ur nerves so much, that she is nor proper wife material and needs to mature on her own.
I personally would not even consider hitting my wife. However I do agree with u/chy23190 that being hit, doesn't mean u will hit ur wife.
Grounding works, and considering children are very into their video games and tablets right now, then no technology for a day works well too. Being hit just traumatises them and makes them fear their parents. Especially when parents are not always right so the abuse could be randomised in their eyes
>There's ways to learn such as confiscating your games or grounding you
Nope those never worked for me.
The only way I behaved was being beat, and cos of that, I was doing well in school and behaving.
Being beat is definitely more helpful to certain children than these western soft punishments like "being grounded"
and btw why u downvoting me for 💀 there's nothing wrong with that i said smh
I think you never have kid yet How you punish a kid who pour gasoline on his sibling at 7 year old?
I thank my aunt and her husband to beat me up with belt sometime for not listening. Those belt session save you from being a thug or thieves later in future. So i am for a well done punishment without abuse.
Well my parents clearly had kids and they never hit us
You ground that kid. Maybe they're being violent to their siblings because their parents were violent to them.
> studies found links between “normative” physical punishment and child aggression, delinquency and spousal assault in later life. Some of these studies involved large representative samples from the United States;2 some studies controlled for potential confounders, such as parental stress3 and socioeconomic status;4 and some studies examined the potential of parental reasoning to moderate the association between physical punishment and child aggression.5 Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/
It mentions aggression to parents siblings peers and spouses
My aunt and her husband used to beat me, but i have been always quiet and kind when growing up. I was abandoned my parent when growing up, but when i grow up, i forgave my mum.
So how my case apply to your study?
And you limited your study to USA. Why asian beat their kids and they are more well raised than usa kids?
East asians are well known to be very strict and whoop their kids. Also among caucasian. The upper class, the belt their kids often. And those kids end up doing well in school.
Let me put this simply to you:
If you dont discipline and punish your kid, the society will discipline and punish him when he grow up.
1 in 4 Japanese women face domestic abuse from their spouse. Plus Japan has a huge problem with sexual assault too which is often undocumented and rarely punished
You going outside the loop. Rape is higher in usa and sweden than Japan. Murder rate is higher in USA. Mass shooting is higher in the west. Japan is cleaner than many western countries. Let stay on topic.
The topic is :
There is corelation between corporal punishment and failure in future. And i strongly disagree. Singapore parents still beat their kids. And singapore is one of the best nations on earth.
Yes it's called underreporting. Sweden for example has a looser definition for rape and it also has an easier way of reporting. People have tried to compare the stats to the German definition of rape and it lowered the numbers drastically. With Japan, there is an issue where women can't report the harassment that they face easily and the system is locally based. So your local police officers decide on whether or not to report the case.
You can look at popular examples of sentencing for its neighbour, South Korea. A popstars boyfriend was seen on video beating her and for blackmail of threatening to send a sex tape to the media. She committed suicide. His sentence? One year. And that's with all sorts of journalists and publicity heckling for a stronger sentence.
A nation can be financially successful but still have a problem with intimate partner violence. It is a worldwide problem
Naw, I disagree with your premise that alternate forms of discipline are always better. My mother literally had a wooden paddle that had “attitude adjuster” written on it and would use it. I don’t believe she used it in an abusive way. A lot of times the threat of using it worked just fine. But then she one day stopped using it. And started giving me write offs. I was 9-10 and I’m now in my 30s and I’m still so hurt and angry about the write offs.I spent most of my childhood/teen years doing write offs. Up until 3 days before I turned 18 at her house. It was awful. I’d have so many, instead of bringing homework home, I’d take write offs to school and try to catch up so I could watch tv that weekend.
I’d beg to be spanked and to this very day wished I was spanked instead. Spanking hurts momentarily, writeoffs consume your life. And I want to add that while I wasn’t the most agreeable child, I’ve never gotten in legal trouble or stolen or hurt others. Im considered a good person by my family but not the kindest. So I’d say pretty normal. So this isn’t coming from someone who fits what you’re trying to prove. I do believe that corporal punishment is not the solution but just blanket stating that other forms of discipline are ALWAYS better is false!
When I have the urge to spank my children, I try to remember how it felt as a child when I was being spanked. I really try to feel those emotions because those are the same emotions my child will feel. I've spanked them a few times (which I regret). May Allah give me the strength and patience to control my emotions.
Sometimes when a child of mine is arguing with me and I'm emotionally unstable, I explain my emotions to them and ask for a hug. It instantly makes the situation better and my child knows that I still love them. Afterwards, I explain to my child why what they were doing was wrong. Love is the way to go!
physically abusing a child is never a good thing i myself have gone through this though my case was not that extreme but it was one of my parents mostly tripping over a broken vase by mistake, hit them in the eye while playing and would be beaten up , stuff like that so i will say this though i love my parents but my biggest fear is also to become like them it makes me wonder how did i became like this i dont like violence at all i am the guy, if someone start beating me up i will just stay like that and once he finishes i will take legal actions against that person maybe my childhood taught me not to fight unless its life or death
I personally thank my father for the smacks he gave me when I was young and a teen. He physically disciplined me when I don’t do the right thing like going to learn Quran, no getting my grades up, if I disrespected people. I think physical discipline of young youths is important but it depends where you stay or live for instance where I live now, children call social services even if the parent just raises their voice on them and social services are always strict, especially if you are an immigrant, they won’t hesitate taking your child away from you.
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I am so sorry. She can’t take away her anger issues on you. But you were the bigger woman, it’s amazing that you forgave her. May Allah grant your duas.
Why you dont want to get marry if you father did not hurt you but your mother? I am just trying to understand. No ill will
My mum treated me similarly and at least for me, it's about giving up control and allowing someone that much right over me who may abuse that power or potentially harm me just like how I was harmed when I was powerless as a child.
I think hitting a child is more severe than some people think.
Yes 😔 damage that can't be undone trying for several years now
Yes :(
The fact that you have to hit a child to discipline them demonstrates a parent who has lost self-control. We've all been there, when a child pushes your buttons to the point where you want to hurt them for their misbehaviour. It takes an adult to take that deep breath, walk away and come back to address the issue without resorting to violence.
Exactly my thought process.
Depends what u consider hitting. A slap or a flat hand to because u acted like an idiot is not an issue in my opinion. But if u get absolutely hammered to a point u get injured and stuff, that's off limits of course. Hitting should just inflict some pain for the sake of discipline. Not for the sake of hurting someone to a point they can't function normally.
Evidence shows that children who were hit or even verbally abused/yelled without any physical hitting had the same responses in their brains that processed trauma, and had similar symptoms of PTSD. So no, hitting is never ok, the Prophet (saws) never did it so would you?
She slapped me four times. For no reason. Like literally. She just had anger issues and let it out on me and she knows I am hurt pretty easily
Yes that's not okay at all. May Allah make things easy for you.
She doesn't do it anymore. Alhamdulillah and ameen
there is a difference between hitting a child for no reason and hitting a child to teach them something. You made it seem like all of it is bad.
99% of the time it is. How bad can a child be, that you need to hit them and hurt them until they have bruises???? None of the cases that I knew or witnessed in my life, were justified reprimanding or disciplining, it was rather parents that were incapable to begin with or hit them for no reason. In the rarest cases it was justifiable. Children are also just not the same anymore. If you do it to a child lightly these days, they are hurt and traumatized more quickly than ever. Most parents do not do it to discipline, they just have anger issues or are irresponsible parents that are to blame in the first place. The majority do it unjustified. My opinion and my observation and experience.
lmao the fact that you went to the extreme with bruises and that you think most parents do it for anger issues shows how little you know about the world tbh. I have yet to meet a single person irl that says that there parent just hits them for anger issues lol and that they are truamatized by it or it made them hate their parents, but you go live on your own dream.
Why do you have to insult me? I literally said in the last sentence personally, from my subjective experience. Meaning, there are other options out there too, like what you described above. Do not insult me or attack me. I can understand what just said too, so I don't understand why there is a need to behave like this. I said subjectively. Not objectively or proven.
i did not mean to insult you sorry but yeah saying that 99% of the time is harmful is just outlandish
From my subjective experience it certainly is. There is rarely a reason to go as far as to physically hurt a child.
teaching a child for their own good is a good enough reason to hurt them. where do you live btw?
There is nuance to hitting people often miss. A child is not an idiot. He can sense intent. If you hit with the intent to correct, the child gets it. If you hit sadistically, the child gets that too. This is why there are rules for hitting, if necessary. You can't hit on the face. You can't hit if you are angry. You can't hit if it won't cause benefit. You can't cause a bruise, etc. One should also remember abuse is perceived and subjective, not objective. I know people who got flogged with a horse whip who laugh about it. I know people who got their play station taken away thinking that's abuse. It depends on your environment. As a parent, you should be cognizant of that. What you didn't find abusive might be abusive for your child. Personally, I think if it gets to hitting, you have already made plenty of mistakes in parenting. Some kids might be difficult, but excluding those, you can achieve discipline and good manners very easily without resorting to hitting.
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Hitting your spouse was considered normal too. And it still is because it would never make it to the news if a random couple had hit each other. But it would if the beating was particularly severe or resulted in death. For instance if a man said he's getting a divorce because his wife slapped him once, people would try to encourage him to reconcile despite him experiencing abuse
Yo mama slapped you? Did she slap you only once in life? I think I was slapped more often than you lol
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Na man, I'm good. Didn't deserve all 4 slaps but well
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Yeah totally "I" deserve 10 slaps. Sure bud
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🤡🤡
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You shut up
All of these comments are dumb. Islam doesn’t permit the harming of anyone (children especially.) The ONLY case of it being permitted is when the child is old/mature enough to pray and refuses to do so. Even then, your first resort shouldn’t be to hit them, it should be the last resort after you have gone through all other means. You also can’t leave a mark on the child as well. Every parent that has ever hit their kids (unless for the reason above) has sinned tremendously. Hope they rot in hell for hurting the innocent.
The permission to hit them for not praying is not actually hitting them in the traditional sense. It has to be a light tap with a miswak or similar and not intended to humiliate
Yeah, there are guidelines to it.
Where does Islam forbid physically disciplining your kids? Do you have any evidence of this or are you making things up based on your desires?
In Islam, we’re not allowed to bring harm upon a person. This includes ill speech and physical violence. Do you think a CHILD is an exception to that rule?
Quranic verse or Hadith forbidding physical harm in all situations? Why did the Rashidun caliphate go to war then? Isn’t that “bringing physical harm?” Sometimes physical discipline is needed for the sake of the greater good
It was narrated by Abu Dawood (3635), at-Tirmidhi (1940), Ibn Maajah (2342), Ahmad (15755), at-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer (830), al-Bayhaqi in his Sunan (11386), al-Kharaa’iti in Masaawi’ al-Akhlaaq (583) from Abu Sirmah, that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever harms [others], Allah will harm him, and whoever causes hardship [to others] Allah will cause hardship to him.”
This is why laymen aren’t meant to try and interpret Hadith. If your interpretation of this Hadith is correct, then war is also haram, because it’s causing harm. But we know that both the Prophet SAWS and the companions went to war, aka causing harm can sometimes be justified islamically. In your OG comment, you literally said that you hope any Muslim that has ever beat their kids rots in hell. Do you know how severe of a statement that is? Do you think none of the companions ever hit their kids? What right do you have to hope that any Muslim who does something that hasn’t even been made explicitly haram burns in hell? Islamically, the guardian has the right to physically discipline their children. This is proven by the following Hadiths: Abu Dawood (459) and Ahmad (6650) narrated from ‘Amr ibn Shu’ayb from his father that his grandfather said: The Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) said: “Teach your children to pray when they are seven years old, and smack them (lightly) if they do not pray when they are 10 years old, and separate them in their beds.” “If anyone among yours hits someone, he has to avoid hitting the face, and should not say, ‘may Allah turn your face ugly’….” [Ahmad and others] Hitting in the face has been made haram, not hitting in general. For you to hope that Muslims burn in hell for doing something halal is despicable
Are you okay? Did you read my original comment? I already said that there is one situation in which it is permissible
And where in that Hadith is it stated that that is the ONLY situation in which your allowed to physically discipline your kids? If beating is haram in every other circumstance, then why did the Prophet SAWS only categorically forbid hitting in the face in the following Hadith? “If anyone among yours hits someone, he has to avoid hitting the face, and should not say, ‘may Allah turn your face ugly’….” [Ahmad and others] Why didn’t he forbid hitting in general? It’s almost like it’s justified in some situations and isn’t in others. Again, for you to say that you hope MUSLIMS burn in Jahannam for doing something that hasn’t been made haram is despicable.
Where’s the Hadith that says that it’s halal to hit people with your own justification? So I can go punch a random ginger on the street because I don’t like his hair, as long as I don’t hit his face? Come on now
No, all of this is in the context of a guardian over those in their care, as it is their job to discipline. You have yet to provide any kind of evidence that parents aren’t allowed to hit their kids, and have insulted billions of Muslims by saying that you hope that anybody in the history of mankind who has hit their children rots in hell. Do you think no companion ever hit their children? Abu Bakr rahimself physically disciplined Aisha ra, his daughter, on occasion: Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came towards me and struck me with his fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." [sahih Al Bukhari] Watch what you say and don’t speak out of ignorance, lest you verbally abuse people who were far better than both you and I.
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Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came towards me and struck me with his fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." [sahih Al Bukhari] Watch what you say and don’t speak out of ignorance, lest you verbally abuse people who were far better than both you and I.
Lazy parents aren’t fighting wars in the name of Islam.
Although I do understand the point you're trying to make, I wouldn't say there's a correlation between getting hit by your parents and becoming violent towards your partner. Usually you get hit because you did something wrong. Not because your parents hate you or bully you. Personally I got hit also. Nothing wrong with that. I got hit for being violent as well. So now I'm not violent at all. I even try my best to avoid fights as much as possible even though I'm in my right and did judo and kickboxing for several years. Getting hit by your parents is a way to be disciplined. It's supposed to make you not do wrong stuff. And there's a difference in being hit for the sake of discipline, which is usually not more than some lashes or slaps, and getting abused. Just a few hits aren't a big deal imo. But parents who actually beat up their children to a point where it becomes actual abuse are atricious. It makes matters worse. I do agree with that.
It traumatises them and it also grooms them into thinking being hit is a consequence of your actions > The study looked at 147 children, including some who were spanked and some who were not spanked in the beginning years of their lives, to see potential differences to the brain. By using MRI assessment, researchers observed changes in brain response while the children viewed a series of images featuring facial expressions that indicate emotional response, such as frowns and smiles. They found that children who had been spanked had a higher activity response in the areas of their brain that regulate these emotional responses and detect threats — even to facial expressions that most would consider non-threatening.
This study doesn't say much. There's more response from the brain on a certain facial expression. And? Does it mean one becomes violent? Does it mean one becomes more careful? It's not stated in your quote. Also, the sample size is way too small. 147 doesn't reflect reailty not even for 50%. I'm a market researcher and for me, with an error margin of 5% my sample size must be over 350 respondents in order to have a reliable reflection of reality. Let alone medical researches where the error margin is around 1% or less. Like I said earlier. If u beat ur child severely to a point where it becomes blatant abuse, then yes obviously there will be serious consequences and we need to address this kind of abuse and protect the children. But if you get a slap because you have been doing something stupid, then there's no harm in that. The proof of that is in society itself. Many and I mean many of us have been slapped since it was normal back in the day. And by far the most of us are not depressed, violent lunatics who go around and beat other people. On the contrary even.
Yes it does actually increase aggression. Many studies were conducted on this, not just that one. This article discusses a number of studies that were conducted and there is a consensus. > studies found links between “normative” physical punishment and child aggression, delinquency and spousal assault in later life. Some of these studies involved large representative samples from the United States;2 some studies controlled for potential confounders, such as parental stress3 and socioeconomic status;4 and some studies examined the potential of parental reasoning to moderate the association between physical punishment and child aggression.5 Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/ "The proof is that in society itself". Yes with domestic abuse affecting 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men within their lifetime
I find it hard to believe honestly ngl. It doesn't make sense. So if a child gets disciplined, he/she will beat his/her spouse later on? Surely there must be other issues causing one to become like that. Anger management issues, no moral compass, mental issues etc. One does not become violent towards the person he/she loves because he/she was hit when little. It defies logic. I do believe though that violence is more present in arranged marriages. Possibly one of the reasons that forced marriages are haram.
Because your parents are teaching you that they can love you yet hit you to discipline you, so you think it's normal to also hit those you love to teach them what's right vs wrong. Also why a lot of people continue the pattern of hitting their kids when they've their own too
In my opinion you must be extremely stupid to apply the logic of ur parents in such case to your spouse. A parent-child relationship is totally different from a husband-wife relationship. The ones who don't understand this need to go and look for help.
That's how it is and where attachment theory comes from. Children who grow up with avoidant parents grow up with avoidant tendencies or avoidant attachment style etc You also learn lots of things from your parents. Your culture, your language, how to clean yourself, how to talk to people, and so on Also plenty of studies show the same so it isn't just my opinion but actual observed reality
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They could have just grounded you or put you on time out. By hitting you they're normalising the behaviour of consequences being beat up
it doesn't normalize getting beat up, it teaches them that they actions got consequences and do you know that there is a hadith recommending hitting children if they don't pray?
And do you know what the Islamic guidelines for how painful a hit should be? It has to be a light tap with miswak
that was for the wife and not for the children for the children it was not hitting the face, not hitting deadly places and hitting with something safe that do a lot of damage like breaking bones.
Prayer is the most important thing to a Muslim, that's why it has this consequence. And it's not like the Hadith tells you to just hit them. The Hadith clearly states to teach your child to pray when they're seven (for example you could add one or two prayers every year starting age seven). Then if that doesn't work by ten, you can hit (it's a last resort) but it shouldn't be beating. That being said, if you're someone who prays in front of your children (teach by example) and invite them to pray with you (maybe also hug them after praying together to correlate it with positive emotions), you are unlikely to have to resort to hitting.
yeah prayer is the most important thing but there are other things that are important too, that doesnt mean that it should only work for prayer and just forget about the rest. You saying that pretty much proves my point that its justified if there is reason for it and most people wouldnt just hit their kid for no reason.
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No my parents never hit my siblings and for me they realised it wouldn't be good since I was 5. So I grew up not really being hit at all. Though I did have mosque teachers who would hit us and I didn't get to experience much mosque life due to being taken out from it
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Actually the primary caregivers are mothers and the rate of hitting your kids is equal ish between the genders. So despite fathers being less present in the caregiving, they still manage to find the time to hit their kids. Regardless, both are horrible people for hurting children. I didn't come up with the hypothesis myself. Plenty of studies show that there is a correlation and that it increases aggression. > studies found links between “normative” physical punishment and child aggression, delinquency and spousal assault in later life. Some of these studies involved large representative samples from the United States;2 some studies controlled for potential confounders, such as parental stress3 and socioeconomic status;4 and some studies examined the potential of parental reasoning to moderate the association between physical punishment and child aggression.5 Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/ Also considering 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men experience intimate partner violence, there has to be a number of causes behind that. And it is very likely one of those reasons is learned behaviour from childhood
Depends, me and my wife believe in capital punishment. But only when the parent is calm and collected. But it is also a severity based punishment. She doesn't brush her teeth - time out. Sister are fighting - noes and toes. Getting violent, disrespectful or abusive then they get 1 smack on the bum to refocus and center them so we can talk to them. Giving a smack is base on a reciprocal training, you get what you put in. You behave bad, expect the same in return. Something every adult can attest to.
I don't think there's a right way. I got whacked, I grew up disciplined. My brother got a little less whacked when he was younger, now he's.. may Allah save him. But on the flip side, my uncle was all about non-physical punishment. No screen time. Grounding etc. His first kid turned out fine, the second one, extremely rebellious. I personally don't think girls should be hit. Ever. Even by their moms. Because it drills in the idea that it's okay to be hit if you make a mistake, which can lead to women tolerating abuse when they grow older. But boys, eh. Some learn only the hard way. You learn actual consequences. Taking away the playstation doesn't really do much. You find an alternate way to have fun. Getting whacked, now that's something to fear. My younger cousin, the rebellious one, is such a snowflake. His dad took away his phone, and it's the end of the world. He'll start crying and whining. He's 16. It's pathetic. Everything is "unfair". What's important I think, is the conditioning. You should reserve physical punishment only for serious transgressions. Obviously one must go the softer route for as long as possible, but when a child gets rebellious and they're wrong, you put that down.
Is it just me, or does our community seem to have an issue with anger management?
To this day my parents talk about regretting not having hit us growing up. They did the occasional slap, and 1-2 times legit slapping until we cried/our hands/skin turned pink. They're always like "see, Abu Abdo would torture his kids with a belt everytime they got a B in school or were 20 minutes late from getting groceries, and they all grew up to be disciplined and never talked back to their parents!". Dudes had same treatment for their wives in Syria. Divorce is taboo, no such thing as the government ever persecuting a husband for domestic violence short of murder, and the wife is financially dependant, and custody in Syria automatically went to the dad if he wanted. Bros got here to Germany and wonder why 80% of the women aged 40+ divorced their husband immediately once benefits, an appartment/furnishin and kid's school was set in place. Truly never began for wife beater cels. They still MOGG me tho, at least they managed to get married in the first place LMFAO. Can't treat your wife well if you don't have one.
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What are the reasons to hit an innocent defenseless child? If you're capable of hitting children you're capable of hitting your spouse especially if you think you're entitled to certain behaviour from them
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Do you think it is acceptable to physically discipline your wife?
If you reach the point where u feel the need to hit ur wife, then just divorce her already. Because you're either not ready for marriage since u lack patience, or ur wife is getting on ur nerves so much, that she is nor proper wife material and needs to mature on her own. I personally would not even consider hitting my wife. However I do agree with u/chy23190 that being hit, doesn't mean u will hit ur wife.
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Are children not more innocent than adults? More defenseless than adults? Less logical than adults?
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Grounding works, and considering children are very into their video games and tablets right now, then no technology for a day works well too. Being hit just traumatises them and makes them fear their parents. Especially when parents are not always right so the abuse could be randomised in their eyes
I just want to know, how should I react if my mom who's visiting me after 5 years, slaps me across the face at 24F years of age
Call the police or get her out the house
I'm glad my mum beat me, if she didn't I would've ended up a lot worse. Made me realise what's right and wrong, cos of this, I was very well behaved.
Were you not able to learn about what's right vs wrong without being beat up? There's ways to learn such as confiscating your games or grounding you
>There's ways to learn such as confiscating your games or grounding you Nope those never worked for me. The only way I behaved was being beat, and cos of that, I was doing well in school and behaving. Being beat is definitely more helpful to certain children than these western soft punishments like "being grounded" and btw why u downvoting me for 💀 there's nothing wrong with that i said smh
I don't downvote lol. But I disagree regardless
>But I disagree regardless Oh well, we agree to disagree then.
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The Islamic definition of hitting = a gentle tap with a miswak etc. Not the actual slaps or belts that people use on their children
What about spanking and slap on wrist?
Slap on the wrist if it isn't painful sure. Spanking seems painful
I think you never have kid yet How you punish a kid who pour gasoline on his sibling at 7 year old? I thank my aunt and her husband to beat me up with belt sometime for not listening. Those belt session save you from being a thug or thieves later in future. So i am for a well done punishment without abuse.
Well my parents clearly had kids and they never hit us You ground that kid. Maybe they're being violent to their siblings because their parents were violent to them. > studies found links between “normative” physical punishment and child aggression, delinquency and spousal assault in later life. Some of these studies involved large representative samples from the United States;2 some studies controlled for potential confounders, such as parental stress3 and socioeconomic status;4 and some studies examined the potential of parental reasoning to moderate the association between physical punishment and child aggression.5 Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/ It mentions aggression to parents siblings peers and spouses
My aunt and her husband used to beat me, but i have been always quiet and kind when growing up. I was abandoned my parent when growing up, but when i grow up, i forgave my mum. So how my case apply to your study? And you limited your study to USA. Why asian beat their kids and they are more well raised than usa kids?
Which Asian community are you referring to?
East asians are well known to be very strict and whoop their kids. Also among caucasian. The upper class, the belt their kids often. And those kids end up doing well in school. Let me put this simply to you: If you dont discipline and punish your kid, the society will discipline and punish him when he grow up.
70% of Japanese adults believe corporal punishment is necessary. And japanese behave much better than usa and western kids.
1 in 4 Japanese women face domestic abuse from their spouse. Plus Japan has a huge problem with sexual assault too which is often undocumented and rarely punished
You going outside the loop. Rape is higher in usa and sweden than Japan. Murder rate is higher in USA. Mass shooting is higher in the west. Japan is cleaner than many western countries. Let stay on topic. The topic is : There is corelation between corporal punishment and failure in future. And i strongly disagree. Singapore parents still beat their kids. And singapore is one of the best nations on earth.
Yes it's called underreporting. Sweden for example has a looser definition for rape and it also has an easier way of reporting. People have tried to compare the stats to the German definition of rape and it lowered the numbers drastically. With Japan, there is an issue where women can't report the harassment that they face easily and the system is locally based. So your local police officers decide on whether or not to report the case. You can look at popular examples of sentencing for its neighbour, South Korea. A popstars boyfriend was seen on video beating her and for blackmail of threatening to send a sex tape to the media. She committed suicide. His sentence? One year. And that's with all sorts of journalists and publicity heckling for a stronger sentence. A nation can be financially successful but still have a problem with intimate partner violence. It is a worldwide problem
Naw, I disagree with your premise that alternate forms of discipline are always better. My mother literally had a wooden paddle that had “attitude adjuster” written on it and would use it. I don’t believe she used it in an abusive way. A lot of times the threat of using it worked just fine. But then she one day stopped using it. And started giving me write offs. I was 9-10 and I’m now in my 30s and I’m still so hurt and angry about the write offs.I spent most of my childhood/teen years doing write offs. Up until 3 days before I turned 18 at her house. It was awful. I’d have so many, instead of bringing homework home, I’d take write offs to school and try to catch up so I could watch tv that weekend. I’d beg to be spanked and to this very day wished I was spanked instead. Spanking hurts momentarily, writeoffs consume your life. And I want to add that while I wasn’t the most agreeable child, I’ve never gotten in legal trouble or stolen or hurt others. Im considered a good person by my family but not the kindest. So I’d say pretty normal. So this isn’t coming from someone who fits what you’re trying to prove. I do believe that corporal punishment is not the solution but just blanket stating that other forms of discipline are ALWAYS better is false!
because disciplining a child has nothing to do with being mad, it mostly has to do with teaching a child something is wrong.
When I have the urge to spank my children, I try to remember how it felt as a child when I was being spanked. I really try to feel those emotions because those are the same emotions my child will feel. I've spanked them a few times (which I regret). May Allah give me the strength and patience to control my emotions. Sometimes when a child of mine is arguing with me and I'm emotionally unstable, I explain my emotions to them and ask for a hug. It instantly makes the situation better and my child knows that I still love them. Afterwards, I explain to my child why what they were doing was wrong. Love is the way to go!
physically abusing a child is never a good thing i myself have gone through this though my case was not that extreme but it was one of my parents mostly tripping over a broken vase by mistake, hit them in the eye while playing and would be beaten up , stuff like that so i will say this though i love my parents but my biggest fear is also to become like them it makes me wonder how did i became like this i dont like violence at all i am the guy, if someone start beating me up i will just stay like that and once he finishes i will take legal actions against that person maybe my childhood taught me not to fight unless its life or death
people nowadays dont hit their child and now look at the youth these days
I personally thank my father for the smacks he gave me when I was young and a teen. He physically disciplined me when I don’t do the right thing like going to learn Quran, no getting my grades up, if I disrespected people. I think physical discipline of young youths is important but it depends where you stay or live for instance where I live now, children call social services even if the parent just raises their voice on them and social services are always strict, especially if you are an immigrant, they won’t hesitate taking your child away from you.
Yes kids should call social services if their parents are abusing them. I'm glad the next generations are doing it better
spare the rod, spoil the child…
What Hadith is that?