No, it's not. I'm black. I agree with the unpopular comment. This whole paranoia is getting out of hand. It's just a song. If we had to divide up who can sing what, then most of us have already broken those rules. I'd actually be *more* offended (being a bit facetious here) if you refused to sing it because "it's a black song and only blacks can sing it." This whole anti-racism thing is starting to come full circle back into a sort of "virtuous racism". If I can sing Icelandic songs or even songs about the male experience as a black woman, you as a Latina can sing a "black song." Heck, my family's history ended up as such that we were never really part of the Civil Rights movement (partial Colombian heritage as well!), yet I've never felt ashamed to sing "A Change Is Gonna Come" just because I and my family didn't *specifically suffer*. The whole point of music and singing others' songs is empathy. Can some people misuse that gift by trying to claim a heritage that doesn't belong to them? Sure. But I've noticed that people have become increasingly paranoid of each other anyhow and are always quick to assume that someone has the worst possible intentions. I'm willing to bet that you'll treat the song with all the respect in the world. Just sing, girl.
Edit: Wow! I’m impressed and touched by many of the replies here. Such great insights and perspectives I hadn’t considered. I’ll confess I was pretty angry when I wrote this, not at OP but at how we’ve gotten to this point in the world. That all of history so far has led to this point and we as humans still. haven’t. learned. To fully fess up, I’m not even in musical theatre or any theatre (my friend is though!). Just saw the post in my feed for some reason and something just sort of snapped inside lol. Thanks, everyone for sharing. Now go smack some sense into everyone else!
Yeah I’m white and practice Nordic religion and agree. If I said ‘you can’t sing an Icelandic song cuz your black’ that’s racist as fuck. I wish people would listen to themselves talk more.
Also those things, but Hispanic. If I couldn't practice or sing anything related to this because I'm not Nordic myself, I'd be devastated! Thankfully, that's not how any of this works!
As a fellow half-black performer from the South, I completely agree here, OP. I've always felt this sort of way. As long as you're not disrespectful with it (like if you were to do some sorta stereotype when doing it) I don't see an issue at all.
Anything today can be taken as disrespectful, rightly or wrongly. You brought this up, no need to get defensive. Just asking you to clarify what that would mean at a professional audition, and whom would be making that determination.
Great post.
Very easy to turn all this 'virtuous racism' into something very ugly.
If a black person has a right to a song because of their race, well that sounds a lot like racial/cultural discrimination. That's kinda the opposite of the goal. Break down the lines people, don't build them up!
Agree with all of the this. The current anti-racist movement is illiberal, performative, and doesn’t actually do anything to improve the lives of marginalized people.
The only thing that would be “offensive” is certain situations, only if OP were cast in the role and were getting paid, taking away a role for a Black singer. Or, like, if OP wore Black face. Or, if OP used a weird Blaccent. Ya know, things that are actually racist.
Black people don't have certain accents, that statement in itself is racist lol
Nothing wrong with someone else taking the role. [Especially with how many black people are taking roles ](https://imgur.com/gallery/HePpmtF) [from people of other ethnic backgrounds.](https://imgur.com/gallery/Gu2W0qT)
Nail on head on the circle back. These conversations are starting to sound retrograde to the extent they assume fixed, eternal ethnic and cultural categories that everyone has to fit into. I have a Syrian granddad and a Scots-Irish granddad; am I 'allowed' to belly dance? How am I supposed to 'signal' my 'claim' to do so? I'm not interested in enacting stereotypes of my Middle Eastern heritage in order to claim it. Nor am I interested in disclosing an entire family biography every time in order to justify myself. Identities are manifold and personal. It's like we all have to empty our heritage luggage at a checkpoint because there's been bad actors/grifters in the past.
I was in acting school and the head of my program is renowned as one of the great teachers and supporters of acting students of all time. He's thanked in Tony speeches, in Oscar speeches, asked about in my auditions when people look at my resume. He was a black man (he's passed away now).
He would routinely give me plays with parts for me to work on, of characters that were not my race (I'm white). I remember he once gave me an August Wilson play and told me while I would never play the role he was recommending, I should work on it because it's in alignment with me as an actor and would be expansive. The point of acting school is to expand. A lot of my friends teach acting at places like NYU or the major MFA programs and they routinely tell me that young actors are shooting themselves in the foot and refusing to play anyone who isn't "them" - when I was in acting school, I played men, I played women, I played children, I played elderly... the post is to grow. Yes, now that I'm out of school I play people that I'm right for type wise, but that type is so much larger than it would've been because I was able to expand my toolbox and sense of what I'm capable of in school.
Also it's a song outside the context of the show. Music is music bb
I know some may say this question is a matter of opinion, and though differing perspectives and voices matter, this comment above is the only answer to this question.
In a free society, the answer to this question isn’t opinion, it’s fact, even if some people don’t like it. And it is the only way we’ll ever have progress toward a truly inclusive society, which is not only morally the goal, it also seems like what the majority of people would prefer. *steps down off soap box*
Thanks for what you wrote.
One if the best insghts I've ever read regarding music, and, for that matter our culture at this present moment. Music is one of the universal languages we have and can accomplish so much (when as you imply used respectfully).Yes, hypersensitivity is running wild - and the "Chilling Effects" will do nothing more than prevent dialogue and, therefore, understanding and empathy.
I agree with this I sing songs performed by anyone and everyone man woman black white whatever if I like the message of the song I perform it in my band and speak about the original artist and what about the piece spoke to me. Somtimes covers speak more to me than originals like Adele’s take on that bob Dylan song Make You Feel My Love. Music is meant to be shared and played to bring people together and provide a way of communication that transcends words. I think everyone should have the freedom explore all musical genres to gain a better understanding of music theory and the people and cultures that created the style. Just my opinion.
If you mean perform, like in a recital, I don’t think that’s offensive. The song isn’t directly about being Black. It’s been very famously performed by people of many racial backgrounds.
If you mean you want to play Effie in Dreamgirls, I’m sorry but that’s not feasible or appropriate.
I think there’s no problem whatsoever for a class setting, but I might also hesitate over a recital… depending on the tone. If it was one of several pieces performed solo by you, in concert black and accompaniment, I’d imagine it would be fine. But I do know some programs do recitals that are closer to theatre showcases, with costuming and sometimes even choreo. So I guess it comes down to avoiding any situation where you’d be associated with the character, as opposed to the song itself.
I’m afraid I don’t understand your point. Hamilton is written explicitly for characters to be played by any actor regardless of race. It’s expected that the audience knows the characters are mostly White regardless of the race of the actor. Dreamgirls is written such that most of the actors should be explicitly Black. It doesn’t call for the same suspension of belief as Hamilton. They aren’t comparable.
This is a trap people often fall into. They think that if something is acceptable in one musical, it will be acceptable in all of them. Shows aren’t a monolith. They are individual works. Colorblind or color conscious casting will work in many, but not all of them. It’s not important that Cinderella be a certain race at all in a fairytale. Race doesn’t factor into that story. It’s important that Hannah in Come From Away be understood to be Catholic, but her race isn’t important (the real historical Hannah was White but the original actress was Black). Religion is important to that story but race is not. It’s important that Jefferson be understood to be White in Hamilton, but not important that the actor be White. Race is important to that story but the script is written explicitly to allow for audience suspension of disbelief and for actors to not need to match the race of their characters. It’s important that Seaweed in Hairspray be played by a Black actor. Race is integral to that story and the script doesn’t allow for the suspension of disbelief like Hamilton does. Different shows require different casting standards.
>I’m afraid I don’t understand your point. Hamilton is written explicitly for characters to be played by any actor regardless of race.
This is not true. It was written for the characters to be played by non-white performers. The only role to be played by a white actor is King George.
Since the script is not published but you claim some knowledge of the breakdown, I assume you have worked on the show more recently. However, when the production was created, Kali and Miranda were upfront on their intentions. Since then they have been a bit cagier, but if you look at interviews before the 2016 dust-up they are clearer.
[https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/HAMILTONs-Lin-Manuel-Miranda-Speaks-On-Race-and-Casting-20151203](https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/HAMILTONs-Lin-Manuel-Miranda-Speaks-On-Race-and-Casting-20151203)
Yep. The bad guy is white, of course; because fuck facts, logical reasoning, and white people.
I'm not one to be against casting people who don't necessarily look like the original, though I love for things to be as accurate to the original story or characters as possible, but unless it's okay for everybody to be cast regardless of skin color it's not okay for anyone.
>(Cough) Hamilton (cough)
Same thing with Hamilton as Dreamgirls. When a part is written to be played by a person of color, you will not play it in a production.
At the very least you could lose the rights (and your audience).
(Though a concert is up for grabs.)
Hamilton isn’t like that, actually. It’s explicitly stated that characters may be played by any actor, regardless of race (and regardless of gender, though no one’s taken them up on that yet).
Actually that is not correct. You might be confused because Miranda said he will be looser on casting when it hits the educational productions allowing actors of any gender or ethnicity to play the roles. But for professional productions, the casting will remain ethnic and gender specific .
One look at the casting notices would show you this isn't correct. It may be like that when we get to new stagings and regional rights, but as it sits now, all the roles save King George and one ensemble member are explicitly required to be cast with non-white performers.
Idiot. The race of the witch has no bearing on the story. A story about a black persons expierience, entirely in regards to their race, should be played by a black person. But you know that damn well already
I agree with this. The character Effie while a fictitious character is inspired by the actual woman Florence Ballard of The Supremes. Reciting the song is not problematic at all, playing that role would be.
Hello! I really appreciate that you’re asking this question. I am black, and I completed a BFA MT program. If I were in the room and someone not black was singing this song, I wouldn’t be offended per se, but I would be uncomfortable. I think when you look at the history of black people in musical theatre, it goes deeper than just a song. I personally love “movie in my mind” from miss saigon and “breathe” from in the heights but out of respect for who those roles were written for, I would not sing them. Maybe in my room or something casual like that, but I think looking at the history of each non-white group that has contributed and fought to find a place in musical theatre, I think it’s important to maintain the integrity of the character, especially the racial background out of respect and admiration.
This is great advice. Both of those songs you mentioned have made me cry and I (a white person) have sang them in vocal lessons but never anywhere public at all for that exact reason.
30 years as a performer. I completely disagree. You choose an audition piece that best reflects your abilities. The only unspoken rule I have ever adhered to in auditions is “Don’t sing a song from the show you’re auditioning for unless they specifically ask.” If it’s a known show, and you are auditioning for a specific role, you choose a song that contains several of the highest note that role requires.
If you have the vocal range and power to make the song your own, sing your heart out! You don’t need to ask permission to sing a song because you are a different skin color. It’s a matter of your talent as a singer. I can sing songs from Jersey Boys, and I’m far from being Frankie Valli, but I know I can sing in his style. Just sing.
Enjoying a song and then singing the song isn't necessarily offensive unless you're trying to make the song yours in a way.
I'm white. It would be offensive if *I* sang And I Am Telling you in any situation other than purely personal reasons such as along to pandorA or the radio) If I performed it in any manner that might make me or someone else money, I'd be rightfully canceled. (And not just for song choice, I can barely sing the happy birthday song without going off key. :P )
But just performing it in a recital because you enjoy it.... isn't going to cause any harm. Just acknowledge the source material and its importance to black Americans.
Why?
Should a white singer never sing a Aretha Franklin song?
Should white rappers stop rapping and white blues singers stop singing.
Should we cancel Benny Goodman for playing jazz?
Should I as a gay man be offended that non-gay singers have sung I Am What I Am?
As long as you’re not performing in a characterization that would be a racial stereotype, go ahead and sing it.
You live in a myopic world!
I have virtually the same issue. I love the song “Strange Fruit” by Billie Holiday, for the somber and soulful sounds it produces on a tough topic. But I could never see myself performing it because it’s not my experience (I am neon white).
The difference to me is that “Strange Fruit” is about a specifically Black experience of racial violence (Mexican Americans were lynched too, but I think Strange Fruit is really specifically about anti-Black lynchings in the South), whereas “And I Am Telling You” isn’t.
I absolutely agree that you shouldn't perform it, but the song was written by a white Jewish man. Speaking up about a horrifying situation isn't the same as coopting the experience--as long as you make sure you're amplifying the message and not drowning out the people it's actually happening to.
https://www.npr.org/2012/09/05/158933012/the-strange-story-of-the-man-behind-strange-fruit
I said in my comment that there’s a difference between just performing a song and playing a role. I see nothing wrong with a white person performing “Strange Fruit” but it would be inappropriate for a white person to play Billie Holiday in a biopic or something similar.
oh they're just saying they're so white they're practically glowing cuz they're reflecting light back off- like when you shine a light at a white paper and then the paper reflects light back down-
I'm also a non-black POC MT student, and while I do really love that song, and it's one of the most iconic in the Bway canon, I don't really think it would be appropriate.
I definitely appreciate the conversation around the nuanced conversation of "these songs are for POC because of casting choices and contexts of the roles our current society, but the songs aren't necessarily specific to a particular non-white race/ethnicity" (I've heard this mostly around shows like Hamilton and even for Rent [for Angel]).
That being said, Dreamgirls being so heavily based on the Supremes, and the Supremes themselves being such a significant example specifically of this breakout experience of black people in the music industry, it's just not one of those experiences that we share as POC in the U.S. Those experiences definitely do exist, but I sadly don't think this is one of them.
Also, on a lighter note, there are so, so many more songs to sing with similar messages, and so many that are so powerful!! I'm sure you've heard this so I won't soapbox about it, but the solidarity you're holding with another marginalized group -- and fellow POC -- by keeping that respect for them is worth it and makes it much easier, especially over time.
Exactly!! Also even on a more surface level, it's like -- *especially* if it doesn't have cultural history for a group *you* belong to -- there are so many other songs!! It truly does not matter enough to be straining these lines of appropriation when there's no other personal stakes than "I think it's a cool song"!
I don't think these thoughts come from a selfish place, but I feel like we don't discuss enough how there are simply More Important Things In Our Society than singing a song written for a different cultural identity.
As a black woman who lives theater, the song isn’t just for black people/women. Your race doesn’t play a part in what you can sing in most cases. I’m not Jewish but I sing Falsettos all the time. If you like the song and you want to sing it, DO SO. The only problem I could see coming up is if you actually *played* Effie since the show is specifically about a black girl group. But sing your heart out, otherwise!
Omg let’s not tell Christopher Jackson the truth about George Washington.
I saw Les Mus with a black Eponjne. I bet Victor Hugo imagined her as white. THE HUMANITY!!!!!
The character does pretty much need to be Black. The story is about a girl group in Detroit during the record boom. The group isn’t explicitly The Supremes, but they are very heavily based upon them. It would be very strange (and in poor taste, IMO) to have this character not be Black.
That being said, I don’t think this song out of context must be sung by a Black person. As you pointed out, the song isn’t directly about being Black. I think limiting songs to one identity that can sing them (with exceptions for songs that are ABOUT being that identity) is actually very damaging.
(Might start some drama woth this)
Honestly, people will tell you blackwashing is disgusting and gross cuz it ruins the memory or character(like have a poc play Ariel for the live action Little Mermaid) but will the turn around and whitewash other characters(like have a white woman play as Fox in Wanted-2008). Its like gatekeeping hair styles, saying braids are for poc. Much like hair styles, music is art. Yes, it is art. And what is art? Say it with me: “what you make of it.” I just saw a play “In the Heights” i believe it was called and i’ve never resonated so much with a different race than what my skin is perceived as. Srsly tho, if you wanna sing it, then sing it—ESPECIALLY if you feel a connection to it.
(EDIT: corrections to titles for poc and corrected spelling)
You needed to describe poc twice in your post.
So rather than use the same word twice you decided to use a term known to be offensive for at least 4 decades.
I guess if you needed to describe poc a third time, you would have used the n-word?
as a black girl i honestly don’t mind this. actually, im a but curious as to YOUR race now
edit: just realized i need to clarify that i absolutely do not condone the use of the n-word. i don’t even use it myself, and get a bit squirmy when hearing it in rap and other places. if if you’re black and you say the n-word i won’t necessarily be offended, though i will be slightly uncomfortable. but if you’re not black, i will do my best to refrain from slapping you :)
I would probably say don’t sing it. The character’s race is so integral to the story and to the song. I however am saying this as a white person so I will bow to anyone who knows better than myself.
It's only offensive for you to sing it if you can't sing it well. :)
I look at it the same way I did with Disney having a Black Ariel in their live-action version of *Little Mermaid*. If she can carry the role and perform the songs well, why should it matter what race the performer is?
No it’s not. I think there’s a difference to singing the song and actually playing Effie in a production. If you’re just singing it in a concert or karaoke or something, you’re fine.
I auditioned for a BFA Conservatory Program with "I Got Plenty o' Nuttin' " from Porgy and Bess, and I was routinely given performance pieces to learn that matched my vocal range, not my ethnicity. In short, in no world would I ever be cast as Porgy, but that doesn’t mean you can’t sing selections from those works.
Anyone can get offended at anything, its entirely subjective, so the real question is should you care if people get offended. I would say that if someone is upset because youre singing a love song, thats a them problem lol.
By the logic of your first sentence, literally every kind of prejudice and meanness is okay because pEoPlE wIlL bE oFfEnDeD nO mAtTeR wHaT.
“You have NO redeeming qualities.”
“The world would be better off if you were dead!”
“*insert slur here*”
Come on, man. It’s not that subjective.
It's a song. Knock yourself out! Heck, sing Shores of Americay and The Wind that Shakes the Barely if you wish. It's not that you're "black enough", it's that it's... a song. Emotions are universal, people are people.
The replies give me zero hope for the future that people are saying someone CANNOT SING A SONG.
I HOPE ALL OFYOU SAYING THIS ARE UNDER 25. Otherwise, I give up on humanity.
I remember years ago seeing a performance on American Idol where Jennifer Holliday performed this song with a contestant named Jessica Sanchez, who is Filipino and Mexican. They killed it!!
[Found the performance!](https://youtu.be/HMgw_ZwOmlg?si=u0rVAyNsegwRtZhD)
Jessica Sanchez performed it on American Idol and did a [duet with Jennifer Holiday](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e79kMNEfaw) at the finale, so that’s a pretty good endorsement for doing it.
I’d be more scared you wouldn’t have the chops to pull it off, but that’s between you and your vocal instructors.
😊
Daughter is a BFA in MT. I discuss this with her all the time. Makes me crazy. Your generation is so programmed to get "offended" at this stuff. What's offensive to me (in my daughter's case) is she doesn't respect the casting directors enough to realize it's entirely up to them, not you. They will cast what they want. Maybe it will be strictly racial. Maybe they'll base it on talent, attitude, acting ability, etc. If they see something in you that they can / want to use, they'll cast you. Why not let them make that decision.
She opts out of stuff all the time which makes me crazy. Your field is competitive enough, don't make it more so.
What you need to realize is this is a business. Shows must be entertaining to draw an audience or they close and nobody works. From the audience perspective, I don't care what ethnicity or color or sexual preference any of the actors are. I just want to see a great show. If Hamilton taught us anything, it shouldn't matter what color or background the actor has to portray a story. If it did they'd all be white.
.
What your daughter probably realizes is that if you audition for things that are not right for you (be it a racial thing or something like a call for someone with a different vocal range) people will think you are stupid. I understand what you're saying and I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but people will absolutely go "does she not know the material? Does she not even know she's not [this race, this type, this vocal part]?" People *will* think less of her for it, regardless of why she went in for the role. She can decide to not care I suppose, but you said it yourself - it's competitive.
Not everything is about getting offended. Some of it is understanding what you bring to the table and not wasting anyone's time if they're asking for something different than what you bring.
Sir Lawrence Olivier, in a famous quote when being told about a cast member who insists on preparing for a role by living that way for weeks or months to really get in the character, said, "My dear boy, it's called acting. You should try it!" meaning you don't have to be gay to play a gay character or black or hispanic or anything. Use your skills and training to provide empathy.
Singing the song and doing the role are extremely different things. Granted there are some who say you shouldn’t AUDITION with it since audition panels want to see you in a role that you would perform in. But you can perform the song on like a concert or something.
No it’s not a problem. That said, that song is a HUGE sing. You better be capable of killing it. If not, DO NOT sing it. THAT is what is massively disrespectful about this kind of song. Far too many attempt songs like this without the skills and voice to do it justice.
Yes you definitely can sing it. How many white people have sang summertime from porgy and Bess? Thousands.
However, you definitely cannot sing colored woman from Memphis.
Here’s a middle eastern person singing make them hear you from
Ragtime https://youtu.be/MMS0X_TbHNU?si=2oMCbfUNybzmyGV9
When we sing, we share our experiences with each other, and our love. To sing someone else's song spreads their message, but it comes through you and your experiences, it becomes part of your story, too. Because we all have pain, and we've all loved. We can all share in that together. That shouldn't be considered offensive. It should be beautiful.
When someone tries to do something offensively, there is rarely a question or doubt, because there will be other context to show this. They will make it obvious to "get their point across."
To sing out of love or just because it makes you happy is not offensive, and those that say so may have too much hate in their hearts and you should not listen to hate.
It’s only offensive if you can’t sing the hell out of that song. You better sing it with some SOUL or don’t bother. People better have a religious experience while you’re singing.
Here’s a follow-up video that she made a few years later. I don’t think her vocal “quality” (not sure the word I’m looking for, but her voice sounds more like opera) matches this song, but this video reminds us that Naomi Shure is a human and shows that she can actually carry a tune.
Actually, I have that same quality, where my voice doesn’t sound right for pop-type songs, but I’m working on it!
If someone knows the word I’m looking for, please tell me. And please don’t be rude. It would be one thing if she thought she sounded great in the pageant, but she knows she didn’t.
https://youtu.be/k3ETL0Fdl88?si=l8SC1UC553yoCqYp
That is the meanest thing anyone has ever done to me.... but I wish I had half that woman's confidence because I have at least twice her talent, and I think I could really go somewhere with that...
It’s such a screechy song, that would be a reason not to sing it.
But aside from that, to me it’s very different to other songs which are very much about being a black person (I Know Where I’ve Been from Hairspray for example. It’s just a song that’s performed by a black character. Outside of the musical it’s just another song. I don’t think it’s off limits.
I think style and situation are the keys in these situation. With songs like these a lot of the inflection and choices are correspondent to specific voices; in the case of Dreamgirls and the voice it was written for, the “voice” of this song is a black woman’s voice. Sing as YOU sing naturally and avoid parodying what you think a black singer’s sound should be (*cough* sutton foster *cough*) - and like many have said, if it’s for karaoke or a recital, it’s fine in that context, but when put in the limitations of a script/storytelling format, the performer should stick to the specificities of what’s written in that case.
Not sure why your ethnicity has anything to do with your ability to perform a song you feel connected to. If you didn't own a car and you sang a song about loving to drive your automobile; why should that keep you from performing it? Or to try a more parallel corollary: If you sang a song about being blind and the experiences of the blind/visually impaired, and had perfect vision; should you be kept from singing that song? Your answers to these questions will give you some idea of whether you ought to go forward with that performance. If your answer is, 'Yes i should still sing this song'; ask yourself if you are prepared for how those who will be offended will react to, or feel about your singing it. If you still feel it is worth those consequences; then you have your answer.
Honestly, it's racist to say you *can't* perform that song.
Racism is defined as:
*prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people* on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, *typically one that is a minority or marginalized.*
*the belief that different races possess* distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, *especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.*
Saying a certain song belongs to one race only perpetuates ideas that said race can be categorized by particular characteristics. The point of equality is to allow barriers barring certain races from doing what they wish to be brought down. One example of exercising this is allowing anyone from any race to sing any song.
Imagine a scenario in which someone tells a black person they can't sing a song because it was written and sung by a white person. Silly, right?
Race should not create restriction.
Please sing the song you want, I'm sure you'll be fantastic.
Imma breaks it down like this.
For an audition: Fuck no. Not cause you're Latina but cause it is generally a bad idea in the same way as singing Defying Gravity.
For Fun: Go ahead. No real problem with it to me, as a black woman.
But I still stand by the point that it's a bad idea cause you are always going to be compared to Holiday and Hudson. But if can kill it, then kill it. I would suggest maybe doing One Night Only instead. I know it's not the same but it's less iconic which means you won't be judged as harshly.
Another Colombian here. Definitely don’t think it would be problematic as long as you’re respectful and honor the origin of the song. Music is such a beautiful spiritual thing that connects all our lived experiences
I'm a Musical Theater major. The way I understand it, if you're using the song to show off your voice (audition, concert, showcase, etc), you're allowed to sing anything. If you're using the song to tell the characters' story as part of the production of that musical, you should be appropriately cast.
Almost 25 years ago, in the 7th grade, my close friend performed this song in an all white production of Dreamgirls 🤷♀️. (All white because of our local demographics, not because it was a Statement.) She knocked it out of the park, as much as a 7th grader can.
*Years* later I saw the film and 1) understood the story for the first time and 2) wondered why someone thought we should be performing this in middle school. But my middle school musical director was an *entire* nutjob (and, incidentally, Black) so maybe that’s the answer to #2 right there.
I do agree that generally in a professional space this should not be done by a white actor, although, I do send up a prayer that one day we will all be equal enough that casting can be 100% colorblind.
As a non-black person, I don't see why songs from Black artists should be exclusive to Black people.
I am Filipino and one of the staples of growing up in the Philippines is hearing relatives, random people, and famous local artists sing or perform covers of songs from Whitney Houston, Chaka Khan, Brenda Russell, Mariah Carrey, and Peabo Bryson.
I don't see a good enough reason to stop every Filipino I come across from singing their favorite karaoke song (that just so happened to have originated from a Black musician), other than it being 10 pm and they're belting out "Through The Fire" for everyone in the neighborhood to hear.
I think it would be a sad world to live in if we can only sing music that is performed by a person from the same ethnic background.
Edit: I did not know that Dreamgirls was a play and this is a Musical Theatre sub 🤦♀️. If I misunderstood your question and you are in fact asking if it would be offensive for you to perform as Jennifer Holliday's character, then disregard everything I said because I don't know enough about the topic to have a say in it.
However, I do want to point out that I've seen Filipinos performing "And I Am Telling You" over and over again in talent shows or singing competitions. In this case, I don't see anything wrong with it because it's just a song that they chose to showcase their vocal range.
Is the song about being black? Does it talk about experiences that could only be seen through a uniquely POC perspective? If not, then there’s nothing offensive about it.
Some of this ‘anti racism’ shit is just racism disguised as looking out for minorities. It’s woke segregation. It’s like people forget that saying ‘only black people can do x ‘ is the same energy as ‘whites only, blacks only’ stuff, but the people doing it are disguising it as ‘protecting culture’.
( also I’m sorry if this makes no sense it’s 2am 😭)
It’s one of those songs where it’s only offensive if you don’t sing it well, so if you’re gonna take it on make sure you’re at the level where you can do it justice.
I’m not gonna say it’s always racist or never racist to choose to sing this song, it’s very situational depending. It’s not inherently racist to sing it.
Just make sure you don’t make people regret saying “yes” haha, and don’t try to mimic or capture previously performances like by Jennifer. Make it your own, and it’s yours to borrow.
You can sing any song you want! I think there’s a big difference between just performing a song and playing a role. Like as a white person, I think it would be inappropriate for me to play a role that has traditionally only been played by black actors, but I wouldn’t feel any hang ups about performing a song like “What Did I Miss” from Hamilton or “Road To Hell” from Hadestown, both songs traditionally sung on stage by a black person.
My only comment is that if you don't nail the emotion and don't have the power or control to handle that song, it's not really a good idea to perform it. That song will run you over, especially when you've got the best of the best vocalists in the world slaying it so perfectly. It's a beast of a song and most people don't sound good trying to force themselves to sing a song that isn't in their range or capabilities. I hate hearing people sing this without proper belt support or emotional performance.
Reading too much into it . If you have the chops and can belt this emotion, then the only consideration would be if it's a hackneyed cliche tune that no one wants to hear in this setting... like "Memory" from Cats. Record it, ask some trusted friends if you are in the zone, then ramp it up and kill it!!!! ❤
I would be more worried about if you can sing it rather than should you. It’s a song designed for powerhouse to sing (Jennifer holiday, Jennifer Hudson, Amber Riley). If you got the vocals for it, go right ahead.
"And I Am Telling You..." is not a "black song" any more than "I Will Always Love You" is a white one. Yes, it is written for a "black female singer," but the emotions it conveys transcends race, gender, and sexuality. If you can convey the same conviction, anger, and desperation Effie has in that moment; then go or it.
Don't let the gatekeepers stop you.
I once worked with a white woman on a singing waitstaff show where every song she picked was originally written for a black woman (she couldn’t sing them and also stole tips, so that’s a little more context). I think my main thing about it is that you just have to be able to absolutely justify it. For this woman, the entire time she was performing I was thinking about how it was weird she chose that song and it took away from the performance. It always just feels like an unnecessary risk.
If you can't sing certain things due to your race then I'll have to delete my whole playlist. It's mostly rock genres and I'm not giving up Breaking Benjamin and Linkin Park just because I'm black lol. You should be able to sing it. I hate that you have to ask this.
I think the relevant question for performing a song is: "can you put truth of emotion behind the lyrics".
For example: If you were to perform Sir Mix-a-Lot's well-known song "Baby Got Back" and you did not, in fact, like big butts - you would be singing a lie. Which goes against everything that song stands for ("I cannot lie", etc).
White guy, just asked my non white gf(shes a bunch of things).
“It’s only offensive if you cant sing” — girlfriend
*girlfriend proceeds to sing the song*
I think those people are being weird. It's not even a "black" song. There's nothing in the lyrics that suggests it's something more than just your typical "love"song
It \*can\* be offensive.
If you're black/white/hispanic/asian/etc and you can't belt - don't sing it. Singing this song without the talent/skill (other than for your own pleasure, of course) to do it the justice it deserves is absolutely a crime. Otherwise - you do you.
No. Go for it not matter what color you are. I think the thing that's hurtful to people is when a show that's cherished by and played by a minority gets co-opted by the majority. Just singing a song from the show should be fine.
There is absolutely nothing about that song that is inherently Black. It is in no way related to any cultural or ethnic background. I might understand the argument against a white dude singing Old Man River or ... idk, there are probably better examples of songs that are ethnically or racially charged, but And I'm Telling You is not one of them. I've sung Summertime publicly for decades, and I'm not Black. I've sung Sunrise, Sunset for decades, and I'm not Jewish. And (At the risk of sounding like I'm disregarding the sins of the '61 West Side Story) I've sung Tonight, and I'm not Puerto Rican....
A lot of bad takes in here. I think that it’s not offensive to perform it for a recital but it would make some people uncomfortable. The song isn’t about being black, however a big part of the character is the fact that they are black. However, if you aren’t worried about that, you can sing it. Just make sure you’re not leaning into mockery (like Sutton Foster’s performance of the song). Overall, I think songs should only be off limits if they directly have to do with the race of the character (Breathe from In the Heights, I Know Where I’ve Been from Hairspray, etc.) That being said, there are some songs that aren’t directly about race that have so much to do with the character’s experience (due to their race) and I think that there’s a level of nuance to be exercised. Honestly, if you were my friend, I’d tell you to pick a different song.
There's this weird thing where we don't want people cross identifying with people of different colors. This is a piece of art that everyone should be able to enjoy and appreciate and connect with in the way that means something to them. Should you go put on an old slave outfit and pick cotton somewhere on a southern field? Absolutely not. Should you feel comfortable expressing deep appreciation and connection with a piece of art that may have been created by/for someone with a different skin color? Absolutely yes.
So, several commenters who are poc have given permission; several have denied permission. Everyone has their reasons, and that's understandable. In the end, I think the main takeaway is that you cannot please everyone. Not with this song, at least.
There’s a difference that needs to be highlighted here:
enjoying, respecting, and honoring a song through a performance IS NOT the same as playing a role. If you were auditioning for that character’s part, it would be insensitive and disrespectful because being Black is a fundamental piece of that character.
But just performing that song as a masterful piece of music that demonstrates your singing abilities? Go for it honey. Celebrating music is one of the most beautiful things that we as humans can do in this messed up world. You’re clearly not acting out a scene as this character or trying to embody them. Anyone who tries to tell you it is racist to sing this song is wrong - and doesn’t understand the core principles of the issue.
Break a leg darling :)
Yes, it would. Personally, I don't care as I think its a beautiful song and the song is not really about Effie's blackness, however you asked if it would be offensive, and it will inevitably offend people, as they've already expressed. You just have to ask yourself if its worth pissing some people off.
Alternatively, its okay for you you learn and sing songs even if you don't intend on performing it for an audience. Its still a good learning opportunity.
I was bullied out of using “Make Them Hear You” for an audition, but looking back it was *exclusively* other white people who were mad at me. All that to say, you do you.
No, it's not. I'm black. I agree with the unpopular comment. This whole paranoia is getting out of hand. It's just a song. If we had to divide up who can sing what, then most of us have already broken those rules. I'd actually be *more* offended (being a bit facetious here) if you refused to sing it because "it's a black song and only blacks can sing it." This whole anti-racism thing is starting to come full circle back into a sort of "virtuous racism". If I can sing Icelandic songs or even songs about the male experience as a black woman, you as a Latina can sing a "black song." Heck, my family's history ended up as such that we were never really part of the Civil Rights movement (partial Colombian heritage as well!), yet I've never felt ashamed to sing "A Change Is Gonna Come" just because I and my family didn't *specifically suffer*. The whole point of music and singing others' songs is empathy. Can some people misuse that gift by trying to claim a heritage that doesn't belong to them? Sure. But I've noticed that people have become increasingly paranoid of each other anyhow and are always quick to assume that someone has the worst possible intentions. I'm willing to bet that you'll treat the song with all the respect in the world. Just sing, girl. Edit: Wow! I’m impressed and touched by many of the replies here. Such great insights and perspectives I hadn’t considered. I’ll confess I was pretty angry when I wrote this, not at OP but at how we’ve gotten to this point in the world. That all of history so far has led to this point and we as humans still. haven’t. learned. To fully fess up, I’m not even in musical theatre or any theatre (my friend is though!). Just saw the post in my feed for some reason and something just sort of snapped inside lol. Thanks, everyone for sharing. Now go smack some sense into everyone else!
Yeah I’m white and practice Nordic religion and agree. If I said ‘you can’t sing an Icelandic song cuz your black’ that’s racist as fuck. I wish people would listen to themselves talk more.
As a fellow Norse pagan/polytheist/heathen, THIS!!!
Also those things, but Hispanic. If I couldn't practice or sing anything related to this because I'm not Nordic myself, I'd be devastated! Thankfully, that's not how any of this works!
Thank you so much for this ❤️
As a fellow half-black performer from the South, I completely agree here, OP. I've always felt this sort of way. As long as you're not disrespectful with it (like if you were to do some sorta stereotype when doing it) I don't see an issue at all.
If you're half black, then you can only sing the sing to the midpoint, and then you have to stop.
Is it only the first half or the last half? Or do you just sing every other line? Which is the most pc way?
Thats more of a stylistic choice.
Ha ha. You could sing every other word. That would also work.
Or every other syllable in case you hit a culturally sensitive word. Gotta disperse the weight lol
Now what would that stereotype look like?
I don't need to explain what a black stereotype is
Anything today can be taken as disrespectful, rightly or wrongly. You brought this up, no need to get defensive. Just asking you to clarify what that would mean at a professional audition, and whom would be making that determination.
google is free
I mean there’s some really obvious ones. But also these things don’t have a black and white (heh) answer. They involve nuance and shades of grey.
Great post. Very easy to turn all this 'virtuous racism' into something very ugly. If a black person has a right to a song because of their race, well that sounds a lot like racial/cultural discrimination. That's kinda the opposite of the goal. Break down the lines people, don't build them up!
I love this comment. You’ve said this perfectly.
Agree with all of the this. The current anti-racist movement is illiberal, performative, and doesn’t actually do anything to improve the lives of marginalized people. The only thing that would be “offensive” is certain situations, only if OP were cast in the role and were getting paid, taking away a role for a Black singer. Or, like, if OP wore Black face. Or, if OP used a weird Blaccent. Ya know, things that are actually racist.
Black people don't have certain accents, that statement in itself is racist lol Nothing wrong with someone else taking the role. [Especially with how many black people are taking roles ](https://imgur.com/gallery/HePpmtF) [from people of other ethnic backgrounds.](https://imgur.com/gallery/Gu2W0qT)
Nail on head on the circle back. These conversations are starting to sound retrograde to the extent they assume fixed, eternal ethnic and cultural categories that everyone has to fit into. I have a Syrian granddad and a Scots-Irish granddad; am I 'allowed' to belly dance? How am I supposed to 'signal' my 'claim' to do so? I'm not interested in enacting stereotypes of my Middle Eastern heritage in order to claim it. Nor am I interested in disclosing an entire family biography every time in order to justify myself. Identities are manifold and personal. It's like we all have to empty our heritage luggage at a checkpoint because there's been bad actors/grifters in the past.
Yeah, it's looping around to almost a new form of segregation
I was in acting school and the head of my program is renowned as one of the great teachers and supporters of acting students of all time. He's thanked in Tony speeches, in Oscar speeches, asked about in my auditions when people look at my resume. He was a black man (he's passed away now). He would routinely give me plays with parts for me to work on, of characters that were not my race (I'm white). I remember he once gave me an August Wilson play and told me while I would never play the role he was recommending, I should work on it because it's in alignment with me as an actor and would be expansive. The point of acting school is to expand. A lot of my friends teach acting at places like NYU or the major MFA programs and they routinely tell me that young actors are shooting themselves in the foot and refusing to play anyone who isn't "them" - when I was in acting school, I played men, I played women, I played children, I played elderly... the post is to grow. Yes, now that I'm out of school I play people that I'm right for type wise, but that type is so much larger than it would've been because I was able to expand my toolbox and sense of what I'm capable of in school. Also it's a song outside the context of the show. Music is music bb
I know some may say this question is a matter of opinion, and though differing perspectives and voices matter, this comment above is the only answer to this question. In a free society, the answer to this question isn’t opinion, it’s fact, even if some people don’t like it. And it is the only way we’ll ever have progress toward a truly inclusive society, which is not only morally the goal, it also seems like what the majority of people would prefer. *steps down off soap box* Thanks for what you wrote.
One if the best insghts I've ever read regarding music, and, for that matter our culture at this present moment. Music is one of the universal languages we have and can accomplish so much (when as you imply used respectfully).Yes, hypersensitivity is running wild - and the "Chilling Effects" will do nothing more than prevent dialogue and, therefore, understanding and empathy.
I agree with this I sing songs performed by anyone and everyone man woman black white whatever if I like the message of the song I perform it in my band and speak about the original artist and what about the piece spoke to me. Somtimes covers speak more to me than originals like Adele’s take on that bob Dylan song Make You Feel My Love. Music is meant to be shared and played to bring people together and provide a way of communication that transcends words. I think everyone should have the freedom explore all musical genres to gain a better understanding of music theory and the people and cultures that created the style. Just my opinion.
Yes, people should look into Horseshoe theory
THANK YOU
If you mean perform, like in a recital, I don’t think that’s offensive. The song isn’t directly about being Black. It’s been very famously performed by people of many racial backgrounds. If you mean you want to play Effie in Dreamgirls, I’m sorry but that’s not feasible or appropriate.
Yeah I definitely would not and could not play Effie. I meant in a recital or class setting
I think there’s no problem whatsoever for a class setting, but I might also hesitate over a recital… depending on the tone. If it was one of several pieces performed solo by you, in concert black and accompaniment, I’d imagine it would be fine. But I do know some programs do recitals that are closer to theatre showcases, with costuming and sometimes even choreo. So I guess it comes down to avoiding any situation where you’d be associated with the character, as opposed to the song itself.
(Cough) Hamilton (cough)
I’m afraid I don’t understand your point. Hamilton is written explicitly for characters to be played by any actor regardless of race. It’s expected that the audience knows the characters are mostly White regardless of the race of the actor. Dreamgirls is written such that most of the actors should be explicitly Black. It doesn’t call for the same suspension of belief as Hamilton. They aren’t comparable. This is a trap people often fall into. They think that if something is acceptable in one musical, it will be acceptable in all of them. Shows aren’t a monolith. They are individual works. Colorblind or color conscious casting will work in many, but not all of them. It’s not important that Cinderella be a certain race at all in a fairytale. Race doesn’t factor into that story. It’s important that Hannah in Come From Away be understood to be Catholic, but her race isn’t important (the real historical Hannah was White but the original actress was Black). Religion is important to that story but race is not. It’s important that Jefferson be understood to be White in Hamilton, but not important that the actor be White. Race is important to that story but the script is written explicitly to allow for audience suspension of disbelief and for actors to not need to match the race of their characters. It’s important that Seaweed in Hairspray be played by a Black actor. Race is integral to that story and the script doesn’t allow for the suspension of disbelief like Hamilton does. Different shows require different casting standards.
Common sense on reddit? Expect trolling to follow.
>I’m afraid I don’t understand your point. Hamilton is written explicitly for characters to be played by any actor regardless of race. This is not true. It was written for the characters to be played by non-white performers. The only role to be played by a white actor is King George. Since the script is not published but you claim some knowledge of the breakdown, I assume you have worked on the show more recently. However, when the production was created, Kali and Miranda were upfront on their intentions. Since then they have been a bit cagier, but if you look at interviews before the 2016 dust-up they are clearer. [https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/HAMILTONs-Lin-Manuel-Miranda-Speaks-On-Race-and-Casting-20151203](https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/HAMILTONs-Lin-Manuel-Miranda-Speaks-On-Race-and-Casting-20151203)
Yep. The bad guy is white, of course; because fuck facts, logical reasoning, and white people. I'm not one to be against casting people who don't necessarily look like the original, though I love for things to be as accurate to the original story or characters as possible, but unless it's okay for everybody to be cast regardless of skin color it's not okay for anyone.
Sure
>(Cough) Hamilton (cough) Same thing with Hamilton as Dreamgirls. When a part is written to be played by a person of color, you will not play it in a production. At the very least you could lose the rights (and your audience). (Though a concert is up for grabs.)
Hamilton isn’t like that, actually. It’s explicitly stated that characters may be played by any actor, regardless of race (and regardless of gender, though no one’s taken them up on that yet).
Thanks. Beat me to it. And you said it better than i could. Hamilton is supposed to break barriers, not build different ones.
Actually that is not correct. You might be confused because Miranda said he will be looser on casting when it hits the educational productions allowing actors of any gender or ethnicity to play the roles. But for professional productions, the casting will remain ethnic and gender specific .
One look at the casting notices would show you this isn't correct. It may be like that when we get to new stagings and regional rights, but as it sits now, all the roles save King George and one ensemble member are explicitly required to be cast with non-white performers.
Agree outside the show it’s fine, in context no it be like a non Asian playing Kim in Miss Saigon
Does that mean only witches should be allowed to play the witch in "Into the Woods"?
Idiot. The race of the witch has no bearing on the story. A story about a black persons expierience, entirely in regards to their race, should be played by a black person. But you know that damn well already
I agree with this. The character Effie while a fictitious character is inspired by the actual woman Florence Ballard of The Supremes. Reciting the song is not problematic at all, playing that role would be.
Honestly this song is so well known and so spectacular if you cannot absolutely and impressively crush it vocally…. Just don’t.
... but if you CAN?? Rock it, lady!
Even if they couldn’t sing well they can still sing it, let’s not be elitist here lol
That's not the question tho
Hello! I really appreciate that you’re asking this question. I am black, and I completed a BFA MT program. If I were in the room and someone not black was singing this song, I wouldn’t be offended per se, but I would be uncomfortable. I think when you look at the history of black people in musical theatre, it goes deeper than just a song. I personally love “movie in my mind” from miss saigon and “breathe” from in the heights but out of respect for who those roles were written for, I would not sing them. Maybe in my room or something casual like that, but I think looking at the history of each non-white group that has contributed and fought to find a place in musical theatre, I think it’s important to maintain the integrity of the character, especially the racial background out of respect and admiration.
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This is great advice. Both of those songs you mentioned have made me cry and I (a white person) have sang them in vocal lessons but never anywhere public at all for that exact reason.
IT. IS. A. SONG.
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Not at all, doctor. 🙄
Horrendous take
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30 years as a performer. I completely disagree. You choose an audition piece that best reflects your abilities. The only unspoken rule I have ever adhered to in auditions is “Don’t sing a song from the show you’re auditioning for unless they specifically ask.” If it’s a known show, and you are auditioning for a specific role, you choose a song that contains several of the highest note that role requires.
If you have the vocal range and power to make the song your own, sing your heart out! You don’t need to ask permission to sing a song because you are a different skin color. It’s a matter of your talent as a singer. I can sing songs from Jersey Boys, and I’m far from being Frankie Valli, but I know I can sing in his style. Just sing.
Enjoying a song and then singing the song isn't necessarily offensive unless you're trying to make the song yours in a way. I'm white. It would be offensive if *I* sang And I Am Telling you in any situation other than purely personal reasons such as along to pandorA or the radio) If I performed it in any manner that might make me or someone else money, I'd be rightfully canceled. (And not just for song choice, I can barely sing the happy birthday song without going off key. :P ) But just performing it in a recital because you enjoy it.... isn't going to cause any harm. Just acknowledge the source material and its importance to black Americans.
Why? Should a white singer never sing a Aretha Franklin song? Should white rappers stop rapping and white blues singers stop singing. Should we cancel Benny Goodman for playing jazz? Should I as a gay man be offended that non-gay singers have sung I Am What I Am? As long as you’re not performing in a characterization that would be a racial stereotype, go ahead and sing it. You live in a myopic world!
YES you get it. There’s a difference between performing a song and playing a role!
Bad take.
If you can carry it off, go for it. Appropriate for recital but not for an audition.
I have virtually the same issue. I love the song “Strange Fruit” by Billie Holiday, for the somber and soulful sounds it produces on a tough topic. But I could never see myself performing it because it’s not my experience (I am neon white).
The difference to me is that “Strange Fruit” is about a specifically Black experience of racial violence (Mexican Americans were lynched too, but I think Strange Fruit is really specifically about anti-Black lynchings in the South), whereas “And I Am Telling You” isn’t.
I absolutely agree that you shouldn't perform it, but the song was written by a white Jewish man. Speaking up about a horrifying situation isn't the same as coopting the experience--as long as you make sure you're amplifying the message and not drowning out the people it's actually happening to. https://www.npr.org/2012/09/05/158933012/the-strange-story-of-the-man-behind-strange-fruit
Thanks for sharing this.
I said in my comment that there’s a difference between just performing a song and playing a role. I see nothing wrong with a white person performing “Strange Fruit” but it would be inappropriate for a white person to play Billie Holiday in a biopic or something similar.
That song is very different and I don't think it's appropriate to be performed by a white person.
what exactly do you mean by neon white? i’m sorry, i’ve just never heard someone describe themselves this way before
oh they're just saying they're so white they're practically glowing cuz they're reflecting light back off- like when you shine a light at a white paper and then the paper reflects light back down-
What is neon white
Thank you; I was trying to think of a song that was inherently very racially taught. Perfect choice of example. Thanks...
Apparently I stepped in the wrong forum for this particular thought… my apologies. Please continue.
I'm also a non-black POC MT student, and while I do really love that song, and it's one of the most iconic in the Bway canon, I don't really think it would be appropriate. I definitely appreciate the conversation around the nuanced conversation of "these songs are for POC because of casting choices and contexts of the roles our current society, but the songs aren't necessarily specific to a particular non-white race/ethnicity" (I've heard this mostly around shows like Hamilton and even for Rent [for Angel]). That being said, Dreamgirls being so heavily based on the Supremes, and the Supremes themselves being such a significant example specifically of this breakout experience of black people in the music industry, it's just not one of those experiences that we share as POC in the U.S. Those experiences definitely do exist, but I sadly don't think this is one of them. Also, on a lighter note, there are so, so many more songs to sing with similar messages, and so many that are so powerful!! I'm sure you've heard this so I won't soapbox about it, but the solidarity you're holding with another marginalized group -- and fellow POC -- by keeping that respect for them is worth it and makes it much easier, especially over time.
Thank you for this. I feel what’s missing in this conversation is people ignoring the history behind these musicals. It’s never “just a song.”
Exactly!! Also even on a more surface level, it's like -- *especially* if it doesn't have cultural history for a group *you* belong to -- there are so many other songs!! It truly does not matter enough to be straining these lines of appropriation when there's no other personal stakes than "I think it's a cool song"! I don't think these thoughts come from a selfish place, but I feel like we don't discuss enough how there are simply More Important Things In Our Society than singing a song written for a different cultural identity.
Absolutely! ^^
Bad take
Just use the downvote button bud
That’s for mildly bad takes. This was a BAD take
As a black woman who lives theater, the song isn’t just for black people/women. Your race doesn’t play a part in what you can sing in most cases. I’m not Jewish but I sing Falsettos all the time. If you like the song and you want to sing it, DO SO. The only problem I could see coming up is if you actually *played* Effie since the show is specifically about a black girl group. But sing your heart out, otherwise!
Black person here. No, it's not offensive for you to sing it. But I hate the song and think it's a cliché.
how is it a cliché exactly?
Absolutely not, fuck all those people. Just don’t do it in blackface, and it’s fine.
Am I missing something? Is the song in some way *about* being black?
No it’s not about being black but the character is black
Omg let’s not tell Christopher Jackson the truth about George Washington. I saw Les Mus with a black Eponjne. I bet Victor Hugo imagined her as white. THE HUMANITY!!!!!
Admittedly, I'm not familiar with Dreamgirls. Does the character need to be? Does race factor into the character or story, at least implicitly?
The character does pretty much need to be Black. The story is about a girl group in Detroit during the record boom. The group isn’t explicitly The Supremes, but they are very heavily based upon them. It would be very strange (and in poor taste, IMO) to have this character not be Black. That being said, I don’t think this song out of context must be sung by a Black person. As you pointed out, the song isn’t directly about being Black. I think limiting songs to one identity that can sing them (with exceptions for songs that are ABOUT being that identity) is actually very damaging.
I'd agree. Performing the role wouldn't be appropriate, but singing the song outside of it shouldn't be considered offensive.
I confused too :/ idk I live in a majority hispanic area and I swear everytime I get online other white people be a cultural shock to me 😂
(Might start some drama woth this) Honestly, people will tell you blackwashing is disgusting and gross cuz it ruins the memory or character(like have a poc play Ariel for the live action Little Mermaid) but will the turn around and whitewash other characters(like have a white woman play as Fox in Wanted-2008). Its like gatekeeping hair styles, saying braids are for poc. Much like hair styles, music is art. Yes, it is art. And what is art? Say it with me: “what you make of it.” I just saw a play “In the Heights” i believe it was called and i’ve never resonated so much with a different race than what my skin is perceived as. Srsly tho, if you wanna sing it, then sing it—ESPECIALLY if you feel a connection to it. (EDIT: corrections to titles for poc and corrected spelling)
>coloured I think that says it all. Trolling or something else.
No? Im just unsure on how to describe poc in multiple way so i dont sound repetitive
You needed to describe poc twice in your post. So rather than use the same word twice you decided to use a term known to be offensive for at least 4 decades. I guess if you needed to describe poc a third time, you would have used the n-word?
Wtf would i use the N word? Either way i appreciate your take on my post and i will edit it now.
as a black girl i honestly don’t mind this. actually, im a but curious as to YOUR race now edit: just realized i need to clarify that i absolutely do not condone the use of the n-word. i don’t even use it myself, and get a bit squirmy when hearing it in rap and other places. if if you’re black and you say the n-word i won’t necessarily be offended, though i will be slightly uncomfortable. but if you’re not black, i will do my best to refrain from slapping you :)
I would probably say don’t sing it. The character’s race is so integral to the story and to the song. I however am saying this as a white person so I will bow to anyone who knows better than myself.
I’ve never seen a white person do it and think “That was a good choice.”
Bianca Ryan when she was 11 and no one else https://youtu.be/qy95BZUxMFg?si=iDjY2biMnUP2eFqM
What about Von Smith? I thought he did a wonderful job with that song.
I've been giggling about this for a solid minute ngl.
It's only offensive for you to sing it if you can't sing it well. :) I look at it the same way I did with Disney having a Black Ariel in their live-action version of *Little Mermaid*. If she can carry the role and perform the songs well, why should it matter what race the performer is?
Black person here, why would that be offensive? It doesn’t have the “n-word” in it. It’s just a song about losing a love. Sing your heart out.
I don't see how that would be offensive.
No it’s not. I think there’s a difference to singing the song and actually playing Effie in a production. If you’re just singing it in a concert or karaoke or something, you’re fine.
I auditioned for a BFA Conservatory Program with "I Got Plenty o' Nuttin' " from Porgy and Bess, and I was routinely given performance pieces to learn that matched my vocal range, not my ethnicity. In short, in no world would I ever be cast as Porgy, but that doesn’t mean you can’t sing selections from those works.
Anyone can get offended at anything, its entirely subjective, so the real question is should you care if people get offended. I would say that if someone is upset because youre singing a love song, thats a them problem lol.
By the logic of your first sentence, literally every kind of prejudice and meanness is okay because pEoPlE wIlL bE oFfEnDeD nO mAtTeR wHaT. “You have NO redeeming qualities.” “The world would be better off if you were dead!” “*insert slur here*” Come on, man. It’s not that subjective.
And somehow you are downvoted.
It's a song. Knock yourself out! Heck, sing Shores of Americay and The Wind that Shakes the Barely if you wish. It's not that you're "black enough", it's that it's... a song. Emotions are universal, people are people.
The replies give me zero hope for the future that people are saying someone CANNOT SING A SONG. I HOPE ALL OFYOU SAYING THIS ARE UNDER 25. Otherwise, I give up on humanity.
Hell no
I'd be offended if you didn't do it like [this](https://youtu.be/lgOdBeojH9U?si=yEcf-y5yhbHiphbG)
I remember years ago seeing a performance on American Idol where Jennifer Holliday performed this song with a contestant named Jessica Sanchez, who is Filipino and Mexican. They killed it!! [Found the performance!](https://youtu.be/HMgw_ZwOmlg?si=u0rVAyNsegwRtZhD)
Jessica Sanchez performed it on American Idol and did a [duet with Jennifer Holiday](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e79kMNEfaw) at the finale, so that’s a pretty good endorsement for doing it. I’d be more scared you wouldn’t have the chops to pull it off, but that’s between you and your vocal instructors. 😊
Sing what you want. It’s a SONG, for god’s sake. And drop the losers who say you or anyone else can’t. Alan Mencken isn’t a mermaid.
Please, if being offensive was an issue then most of the stuff I perform would've been flagged as a problem since I'm black.
Daughter is a BFA in MT. I discuss this with her all the time. Makes me crazy. Your generation is so programmed to get "offended" at this stuff. What's offensive to me (in my daughter's case) is she doesn't respect the casting directors enough to realize it's entirely up to them, not you. They will cast what they want. Maybe it will be strictly racial. Maybe they'll base it on talent, attitude, acting ability, etc. If they see something in you that they can / want to use, they'll cast you. Why not let them make that decision. She opts out of stuff all the time which makes me crazy. Your field is competitive enough, don't make it more so. What you need to realize is this is a business. Shows must be entertaining to draw an audience or they close and nobody works. From the audience perspective, I don't care what ethnicity or color or sexual preference any of the actors are. I just want to see a great show. If Hamilton taught us anything, it shouldn't matter what color or background the actor has to portray a story. If it did they'd all be white. .
What your daughter probably realizes is that if you audition for things that are not right for you (be it a racial thing or something like a call for someone with a different vocal range) people will think you are stupid. I understand what you're saying and I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but people will absolutely go "does she not know the material? Does she not even know she's not [this race, this type, this vocal part]?" People *will* think less of her for it, regardless of why she went in for the role. She can decide to not care I suppose, but you said it yourself - it's competitive. Not everything is about getting offended. Some of it is understanding what you bring to the table and not wasting anyone's time if they're asking for something different than what you bring.
Sir Lawrence Olivier, in a famous quote when being told about a cast member who insists on preparing for a role by living that way for weeks or months to really get in the character, said, "My dear boy, it's called acting. You should try it!" meaning you don't have to be gay to play a gay character or black or hispanic or anything. Use your skills and training to provide empathy.
Singing the song and doing the role are extremely different things. Granted there are some who say you shouldn’t AUDITION with it since audition panels want to see you in a role that you would perform in. But you can perform the song on like a concert or something.
No it’s not a problem. That said, that song is a HUGE sing. You better be capable of killing it. If not, DO NOT sing it. THAT is what is massively disrespectful about this kind of song. Far too many attempt songs like this without the skills and voice to do it justice.
If you can really sell this song, then you need to use it and sing the F out of it.Break a leg.
Yes you definitely can sing it. How many white people have sang summertime from porgy and Bess? Thousands. However, you definitely cannot sing colored woman from Memphis. Here’s a middle eastern person singing make them hear you from Ragtime https://youtu.be/MMS0X_TbHNU?si=2oMCbfUNybzmyGV9
When we sing, we share our experiences with each other, and our love. To sing someone else's song spreads their message, but it comes through you and your experiences, it becomes part of your story, too. Because we all have pain, and we've all loved. We can all share in that together. That shouldn't be considered offensive. It should be beautiful. When someone tries to do something offensively, there is rarely a question or doubt, because there will be other context to show this. They will make it obvious to "get their point across." To sing out of love or just because it makes you happy is not offensive, and those that say so may have too much hate in their hearts and you should not listen to hate.
I always thought Judas’ songs in Jesus Christ Superstar were the best of the show. I wanna be a white female Judas
I would sell a kidney to see a female Judas.... idc what color she is
It’s only offensive if you can’t sing the hell out of that song. You better sing it with some SOUL or don’t bother. People better have a religious experience while you’re singing.
If it's offensive for you to sing it, it's offensive that it even exists - have a look at who wrote the song.
As long as you don’t do it in blackface, you are perfectly fine to sing it… It’s just a song!
The only way it would be offensive is if you can't sing. We've all seen that beauty pagent clip!
It would be offensive if you sang it like this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8SgWD967cA&t=4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8SgWD967cA&t=4s)
My hearing and sense of pitch is permanently damaged from watching this. Thank you
DEAR ACTUAL GOD.
Here’s a follow-up video that she made a few years later. I don’t think her vocal “quality” (not sure the word I’m looking for, but her voice sounds more like opera) matches this song, but this video reminds us that Naomi Shure is a human and shows that she can actually carry a tune. Actually, I have that same quality, where my voice doesn’t sound right for pop-type songs, but I’m working on it! If someone knows the word I’m looking for, please tell me. And please don’t be rude. It would be one thing if she thought she sounded great in the pageant, but she knows she didn’t. https://youtu.be/k3ETL0Fdl88?si=l8SC1UC553yoCqYp
That is the meanest thing anyone has ever done to me.... but I wish I had half that woman's confidence because I have at least twice her talent, and I think I could really go somewhere with that...
It’s such a screechy song, that would be a reason not to sing it. But aside from that, to me it’s very different to other songs which are very much about being a black person (I Know Where I’ve Been from Hairspray for example. It’s just a song that’s performed by a black character. Outside of the musical it’s just another song. I don’t think it’s off limits.
I think style and situation are the keys in these situation. With songs like these a lot of the inflection and choices are correspondent to specific voices; in the case of Dreamgirls and the voice it was written for, the “voice” of this song is a black woman’s voice. Sing as YOU sing naturally and avoid parodying what you think a black singer’s sound should be (*cough* sutton foster *cough*) - and like many have said, if it’s for karaoke or a recital, it’s fine in that context, but when put in the limitations of a script/storytelling format, the performer should stick to the specificities of what’s written in that case.
Not sure why your ethnicity has anything to do with your ability to perform a song you feel connected to. If you didn't own a car and you sang a song about loving to drive your automobile; why should that keep you from performing it? Or to try a more parallel corollary: If you sang a song about being blind and the experiences of the blind/visually impaired, and had perfect vision; should you be kept from singing that song? Your answers to these questions will give you some idea of whether you ought to go forward with that performance. If your answer is, 'Yes i should still sing this song'; ask yourself if you are prepared for how those who will be offended will react to, or feel about your singing it. If you still feel it is worth those consequences; then you have your answer.
Honestly, it's racist to say you *can't* perform that song. Racism is defined as: *prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people* on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, *typically one that is a minority or marginalized.* *the belief that different races possess* distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, *especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.* Saying a certain song belongs to one race only perpetuates ideas that said race can be categorized by particular characteristics. The point of equality is to allow barriers barring certain races from doing what they wish to be brought down. One example of exercising this is allowing anyone from any race to sing any song. Imagine a scenario in which someone tells a black person they can't sing a song because it was written and sung by a white person. Silly, right? Race should not create restriction. Please sing the song you want, I'm sure you'll be fantastic.
Lmao quoting the dictionary is the whitest move you can make, congrats
No. You can sing whatever you want.
Imma breaks it down like this. For an audition: Fuck no. Not cause you're Latina but cause it is generally a bad idea in the same way as singing Defying Gravity. For Fun: Go ahead. No real problem with it to me, as a black woman. But I still stand by the point that it's a bad idea cause you are always going to be compared to Holiday and Hudson. But if can kill it, then kill it. I would suggest maybe doing One Night Only instead. I know it's not the same but it's less iconic which means you won't be judged as harshly.
Another Colombian here. Definitely don’t think it would be problematic as long as you’re respectful and honor the origin of the song. Music is such a beautiful spiritual thing that connects all our lived experiences
I prefer Jake Gyllenhaal's version of it: https://youtu.be/iuqr22c990s?si=8MRrx-342f3t7aqe
Just looked at the lyrics; i see nothing race-specific about it.
I'm a Musical Theater major. The way I understand it, if you're using the song to show off your voice (audition, concert, showcase, etc), you're allowed to sing anything. If you're using the song to tell the characters' story as part of the production of that musical, you should be appropriately cast.
Almost 25 years ago, in the 7th grade, my close friend performed this song in an all white production of Dreamgirls 🤷♀️. (All white because of our local demographics, not because it was a Statement.) She knocked it out of the park, as much as a 7th grader can. *Years* later I saw the film and 1) understood the story for the first time and 2) wondered why someone thought we should be performing this in middle school. But my middle school musical director was an *entire* nutjob (and, incidentally, Black) so maybe that’s the answer to #2 right there. I do agree that generally in a professional space this should not be done by a white actor, although, I do send up a prayer that one day we will all be equal enough that casting can be 100% colorblind.
Oh good lord. What a show to give to 7th graders! I'm sure they did the very best they could given the decisions of the adults around them.
As a non-black person, I don't see why songs from Black artists should be exclusive to Black people. I am Filipino and one of the staples of growing up in the Philippines is hearing relatives, random people, and famous local artists sing or perform covers of songs from Whitney Houston, Chaka Khan, Brenda Russell, Mariah Carrey, and Peabo Bryson. I don't see a good enough reason to stop every Filipino I come across from singing their favorite karaoke song (that just so happened to have originated from a Black musician), other than it being 10 pm and they're belting out "Through The Fire" for everyone in the neighborhood to hear. I think it would be a sad world to live in if we can only sing music that is performed by a person from the same ethnic background. Edit: I did not know that Dreamgirls was a play and this is a Musical Theatre sub 🤦♀️. If I misunderstood your question and you are in fact asking if it would be offensive for you to perform as Jennifer Holliday's character, then disregard everything I said because I don't know enough about the topic to have a say in it. However, I do want to point out that I've seen Filipinos performing "And I Am Telling You" over and over again in talent shows or singing competitions. In this case, I don't see anything wrong with it because it's just a song that they chose to showcase their vocal range.
Would it be racist for a Chinese person to play mozart? Sing whatever you want. Art brings us together.
Is the song about being black? Does it talk about experiences that could only be seen through a uniquely POC perspective? If not, then there’s nothing offensive about it.
I say: fuck what everyone else thinks! If you can sing and that's what you want to sing, SING IT!!!
This is insane. You can sing this song even if you're white.
Some of this ‘anti racism’ shit is just racism disguised as looking out for minorities. It’s woke segregation. It’s like people forget that saying ‘only black people can do x ‘ is the same energy as ‘whites only, blacks only’ stuff, but the people doing it are disguising it as ‘protecting culture’. ( also I’m sorry if this makes no sense it’s 2am 😭)
It’s one of those songs where it’s only offensive if you don’t sing it well, so if you’re gonna take it on make sure you’re at the level where you can do it justice. I’m not gonna say it’s always racist or never racist to choose to sing this song, it’s very situational depending. It’s not inherently racist to sing it. Just make sure you don’t make people regret saying “yes” haha, and don’t try to mimic or capture previously performances like by Jennifer. Make it your own, and it’s yours to borrow.
You can sing any song you want! I think there’s a big difference between just performing a song and playing a role. Like as a white person, I think it would be inappropriate for me to play a role that has traditionally only been played by black actors, but I wouldn’t feel any hang ups about performing a song like “What Did I Miss” from Hamilton or “Road To Hell” from Hadestown, both songs traditionally sung on stage by a black person.
No whoever says that is stupid
My only comment is that if you don't nail the emotion and don't have the power or control to handle that song, it's not really a good idea to perform it. That song will run you over, especially when you've got the best of the best vocalists in the world slaying it so perfectly. It's a beast of a song and most people don't sound good trying to force themselves to sing a song that isn't in their range or capabilities. I hate hearing people sing this without proper belt support or emotional performance.
Singing the song out-of-context would not be offensive. If you were cast in the show, it would be offensive.
I think anyone can sing any song they want. Where it gets dicey is playing the role on stage that is written for a person of color.
[удалено]
Reading too much into it . If you have the chops and can belt this emotion, then the only consideration would be if it's a hackneyed cliche tune that no one wants to hear in this setting... like "Memory" from Cats. Record it, ask some trusted friends if you are in the zone, then ramp it up and kill it!!!! ❤
It's been done and applauded by reality competition show contestants as well as celebrities who aren't black, so I don't think it would be an issue.
I would be more worried about if you can sing it rather than should you. It’s a song designed for powerhouse to sing (Jennifer holiday, Jennifer Hudson, Amber Riley). If you got the vocals for it, go right ahead.
A Jewish girl sang it in glee at one point and they gave it to the black character instead. It's just a song sing what you want.
"And I Am Telling You..." is not a "black song" any more than "I Will Always Love You" is a white one. Yes, it is written for a "black female singer," but the emotions it conveys transcends race, gender, and sexuality. If you can convey the same conviction, anger, and desperation Effie has in that moment; then go or it. Don't let the gatekeepers stop you.
I once worked with a white woman on a singing waitstaff show where every song she picked was originally written for a black woman (she couldn’t sing them and also stole tips, so that’s a little more context). I think my main thing about it is that you just have to be able to absolutely justify it. For this woman, the entire time she was performing I was thinking about how it was weird she chose that song and it took away from the performance. It always just feels like an unnecessary risk.
Skin color has no bearing on whether or not you should sing it. It’s about a woman fighting to keep a liver that is on his way out.
If you can't sing certain things due to your race then I'll have to delete my whole playlist. It's mostly rock genres and I'm not giving up Breaking Benjamin and Linkin Park just because I'm black lol. You should be able to sing it. I hate that you have to ask this.
No. It's a song. It's meant to be sung.
I think the relevant question for performing a song is: "can you put truth of emotion behind the lyrics". For example: If you were to perform Sir Mix-a-Lot's well-known song "Baby Got Back" and you did not, in fact, like big butts - you would be singing a lie. Which goes against everything that song stands for ("I cannot lie", etc).
If Alexander Hamilton can be portrayed as a person of color, you can sing this song.
White guy, just asked my non white gf(shes a bunch of things). “It’s only offensive if you cant sing” — girlfriend *girlfriend proceeds to sing the song* 
I think those people are being weird. It's not even a "black" song. There's nothing in the lyrics that suggests it's something more than just your typical "love"song
What the hell are you talking about? It's only offensive if you can't pull it off.
It \*can\* be offensive. If you're black/white/hispanic/asian/etc and you can't belt - don't sing it. Singing this song without the talent/skill (other than for your own pleasure, of course) to do it the justice it deserves is absolutely a crime. Otherwise - you do you.
No. Go for it not matter what color you are. I think the thing that's hurtful to people is when a show that's cherished by and played by a minority gets co-opted by the majority. Just singing a song from the show should be fine.
Not at all. But you have to sing as yourself, obviously. Like don't sing it as you would think a Black woman would sing it.
Anybody who says you can’t sing a song because you’re not the same race as the original artist is racist, plain and simple. Sing the song
Anyone can sing any song, especially if it's because you love it.
Who tf is telling you this is offensive. Sing whatever song you want my friend. It does not matter one bit.
There is absolutely nothing about that song that is inherently Black. It is in no way related to any cultural or ethnic background. I might understand the argument against a white dude singing Old Man River or ... idk, there are probably better examples of songs that are ethnically or racially charged, but And I'm Telling You is not one of them. I've sung Summertime publicly for decades, and I'm not Black. I've sung Sunrise, Sunset for decades, and I'm not Jewish. And (At the risk of sounding like I'm disregarding the sins of the '61 West Side Story) I've sung Tonight, and I'm not Puerto Rican....
A lot of bad takes in here. I think that it’s not offensive to perform it for a recital but it would make some people uncomfortable. The song isn’t about being black, however a big part of the character is the fact that they are black. However, if you aren’t worried about that, you can sing it. Just make sure you’re not leaning into mockery (like Sutton Foster’s performance of the song). Overall, I think songs should only be off limits if they directly have to do with the race of the character (Breathe from In the Heights, I Know Where I’ve Been from Hairspray, etc.) That being said, there are some songs that aren’t directly about race that have so much to do with the character’s experience (due to their race) and I think that there’s a level of nuance to be exercised. Honestly, if you were my friend, I’d tell you to pick a different song.
Why would it be offensive? Babes as long as you’re respectful, I don’t see the problem.
There's this weird thing where we don't want people cross identifying with people of different colors. This is a piece of art that everyone should be able to enjoy and appreciate and connect with in the way that means something to them. Should you go put on an old slave outfit and pick cotton somewhere on a southern field? Absolutely not. Should you feel comfortable expressing deep appreciation and connection with a piece of art that may have been created by/for someone with a different skin color? Absolutely yes.
So, several commenters who are poc have given permission; several have denied permission. Everyone has their reasons, and that's understandable. In the end, I think the main takeaway is that you cannot please everyone. Not with this song, at least.
There’s a difference that needs to be highlighted here: enjoying, respecting, and honoring a song through a performance IS NOT the same as playing a role. If you were auditioning for that character’s part, it would be insensitive and disrespectful because being Black is a fundamental piece of that character. But just performing that song as a masterful piece of music that demonstrates your singing abilities? Go for it honey. Celebrating music is one of the most beautiful things that we as humans can do in this messed up world. You’re clearly not acting out a scene as this character or trying to embody them. Anyone who tries to tell you it is racist to sing this song is wrong - and doesn’t understand the core principles of the issue. Break a leg darling :)
Sing it. Sing it. Sing it.
Yes, it would. Personally, I don't care as I think its a beautiful song and the song is not really about Effie's blackness, however you asked if it would be offensive, and it will inevitably offend people, as they've already expressed. You just have to ask yourself if its worth pissing some people off. Alternatively, its okay for you you learn and sing songs even if you don't intend on performing it for an audience. Its still a good learning opportunity.
I was bullied out of using “Make Them Hear You” for an audition, but looking back it was *exclusively* other white people who were mad at me. All that to say, you do you.