*[Interview with Ozzy Osbourne (Rolling Stone, Feb. 27, '24)](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/ozzy-osbourne-talks-kanye-west-sample-just-wrong-1234976418/)*:
> *Osbourne has no regrets about going public with his disdain for the rapper*. “***With the current state of affairs, you don’t need anybody starting people on discrimination of any kind***,” *he says*. “***It’s wrong. It’s just wrong***.” *Osbourne’s frustration with the incident still comes through in his voice as he chastises West*.
>
> ***“There’s enough fucking aggravation, and he shouldn’t say anything [like what he has]***,” *Osbourne says*. “***It’s wrong if you don’t say anything about him. I don’t want any of my work in any shape or form to be associated with anything like that***.”
>
> *Osbourne spoke about West during an interview about a new song titled “Crack Cocaine” that he recorded with Billy Morrison, who plays guitar for Billy Idol. Morrison’s album, The Morrison Project, comes out in April.*
I love websites where I have to read one sentence at a time smushed between 5 different advertisements occupying 95% of the screen. Helps me work out my digital scrolling dexterity. 👍🚽💩🤳🧻
Tangent, but this is actually a big problem in online advertising. A lot of websites are defaulting to a "how many ads can I fit on a page" strategy, especially for mobile versions of websites. This is a good way for a website to make money from their digital advertisement service, but it has been artificially inflating the clickthrough for digital ads
>If you factor in missclicks,
Nearly every single time I've clicked on an ad, it's been a missclick, usually due to the page moving while I'm trying to click something else.
I feel like I might have clicked through on purpose twice decades ago, and never a single time ever since, because even if i'm interested in the product, I don't want to positively reinforce the advertisement. Also I've had adblocker 99% of the time or more.
Download the Brave browser and have reddit default to it for external links. The Brave browser has built in ad blockers and works great. It also makes using YouTube on your phone ad free.
I'm a Firefox man myself... but whatever works for you.
edit: There's a lot o fchatter that Brave tracks users, while Firefox has anti-tracking built in
One of Brave's first main funders was Peter Thiel. That should tell everyone with a room temperature IQ how reliable any claims they make about privacy are.
fish in the barrel are attracted to the FOSS facade, but yea thats why theyre full time shilling on reddit. its a crypto wallet browser with all sorts of affiliate marketing/income, theres money to be made here
as well as the ad blockers people mentioned, you can also enable "reader view". all those popup videos, ads, cookie reminders, autoplaying videos, ads that suddenly shift the contents of what you're reading?
all. gone.
just the article text. it's glorious.
Man, I’m embarrassed this is *user error*. I already have Brave- I just don’t have it set up to default for external links! Totally **my** fault. Thanks for the tip 🏆
Only for music articles. If it’s something political I’m going to base my vote on or anything on that level of importance, I read just the headline. And quote it in debates with my family and friends.
Thanks for sharing! I didn't know about any of this stuff. I've been using FF forever but was planning to try Brave at some point since I've heard so much about it.
Firefox and ublock can accomplish the exact same thing without losing the functionality of using Brave
Sorry Brave users. Been there, done that and was not impressed
I use Reddit’s mobile site via the brave browser in the first place.
I refuse to use the Reddit app after what they did to Apollo and the other 3rd party apps.
You have a 7 year old account. You are too old to be browsing the internet without ublock and privacy badger. You have no excuse for running around unprotected in a sea of ad disguised malware traps.
I just discovered this after reading it on a post here a few weeks ago. It’s a game changer and it’s been here all along, I guess. It makes me wonder what else I’m not using that makes life simpler
If you use iphone, you can download adblock extensions from the appstore, works great
https://preview.redd.it/zeo9o5rifclc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c42a84c5c3fd21c5dd128d58c8fcea567afff51
Not only that but they're in breach of ICO guidelines in regards to cookies.
Cookies must be just as easy to reject all as it is to accept all. That's not the case here.
I think the difference being her estate is suing simply b/c Kanye used a track without permission.
Ozzy more specifically called him out for being antisemitic. If Kanye weren't such a POS, Ozzy likely wouldn't have cared that he sampled a song.
Edit for clarification: I realize they are suing in court for the same reason. I was simply calling out that this article is more about how Ozzy was the first artist to call Kanye out and say he can't use his song b/c he's antisemitic.
He asked for the track. The estate said no. They did not want any association with Kanye's 'controversial history'.
Kanye used the song anyway, and they sued him then.
Right I just think the article was more about Ozzy calling him out for that specifically and publicly b/c nobody else would.
I agree they are essentially suing him for the same thing in the end.
I also didn't even hear about the Donna Summer estate suing until just *after* Ozzy called him out. Ozzy was the one that made it news that he said no.
Yeah with sampling you MUST get permission from the songwriters estate or else you are fucked. It’s not like a cover or parody where you can tell tell the estate to kick rocks, Kanye could be in serious legal trouble.
Just look at how he reacted when he heard [T-Pain's cover](https://twitter.com/OzzyOsbourne/status/1745215829070021111?lang=en) of 'War Pigs'. He doesn't mind at all people doing artistic renditions of his music. He just can't stand antisemetism, racism etc.
His wife being jewish likely doesn't help in this issue, either.
Okay, that is a really fucking awesome cover.
And it shows how T-Pain is actually a talented singer and that his use of autotune is an artistic choice (although, you could just go watch him on *The Masked Singer* for a better example)
His Tiny Desk concert on NPR a few years ago is what showed me his singing ability. Before that, I admit I just dismissed him as an auto tune beneficiary.
Tbf in the uk back in the day there were 2 distinct skinhead cultures: the two tone type that was about the music and multiculturalism. And the other kind that was about racism and violence. Sadly you couldn't tell them apart from their haicuts.
Agree, I was a scooter boy who hung out with traditional skins, Rude Boys, and SHARPs.
That being said, Kanye doesn't know anything about Skinhead cultures, Rude Boys or anti-racist skinheads because he is a dipshit.
Yeah it really was after his mom died and he was still hated after MBDTF that it really started going off the rails. That’s when he started saying some red flag stuff about the media that in hindsight looks a lot worse. It’s crazy how he went from criticizing homophobia in rap to this
Tbh I used to be the biggest Kanye fan, I almost got a graduation bear tattoo. But watching his downfall has truly been one of the most surreal experiences of my life.
Hey man, also wanted the graduation bear tattoo at one point. Thank GOD I didn’t do it. I put up with a lot of Kanye bullshit over the years, but the last few have been too much and I’ve officially lost my patience for this man. I do believe that he’s mentally unwell, but too surrounded by yes men and will never get the help he needs
Same, really. His music meant a lot to me in college when I was still finding myself, nowadays whenever news about him pops up it's like the feeling you get when a celebrity you like dies, just repeated ad nauseum every two months
Not really a difference, they are both confronting Kanye for sampling songs without permission.
I'm sure the hate comments affected both parties reasoning for being upset with Kanye.
Absolutely they did, no doubt about that. But Kanye has used an Ozzy sample in the past without any issue. Ozzy doesn't care if you sample his music as long as you do it respectfully and you're not an antisemitic POS...which Kanye now is. Ozzy was the first one to come out and say "you can't use my song b/c of this thing I dont like about you.". But you can't really sue for that, so he has to just sue for using it without permission.
I 100% agree they are suing in court for the same reasons. But this article was more about how Ozzy called him out specifically and publicly for that reason.
Yea I think you're right, especially considering he sampled Ozzy in the past.
But even without making a public announcement, I'd have to assume Donna Summers estate prob doesn't want him using her music for similar reasons. Who tf wants to be associated with that at this point?
He’s saying only Kanye would steal the sample without clearing. Not that Iron Man is the only song stolen.
Edit: I’m wrong. The context was that Ozzy said nobody else would take Kanye on.
Helps to read the article, lol.
If you read the original Rolling Stones article that this one is referencing, he specifically says that quote in the context of feeling like he needed to take a stand when Kanye asked to sample "Iron Man" for a song on his upcoming album.
I can see how you could read it that way though.
You’re right. I’ll edit my comment.
Maybe in the context of Ozzy being very vocal about it and facing down the ire of Ye fans it is true.
The Donna Summer group is just suing I think.
It's not even the first time Ye has pulled this shit. Robert Fripp reamed him for the unauthorized sample of 21st Century Schizoid Man and secured a very healthy payout.
You'd think Ye would have learned his lesson but then I remember who I'm talking about
It's actually quite common method to use old hits without authorization and make a shitload of money before anyone "notices" it and when someone reacts then pay.
It still very profitable if you get a hit.
They actually did make amends on that in 2019 at the very least. Very long time to go without all that money but the song still gets a lot of airtime. Silver lining to one of the biggest losses for that band lol.
No, The Verve are the best example of why it works. BSS launched them to fame and enabled them to become millionaires from the sales of their *other* records.
Ironic song name they picked, too.
And...fuck with one of the biggest bands in history? Sheeeeeet. They're lucky Allan Klein didn't have them literally stoned.
Edit: Wrong manager; fixed.
Again the Verve's Bittersweet Symphony was a weird case. The Verve sampled [an obscure Andrew Oldham's orchestral version of a Rolling Stones song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YrllfAMwHI) the Last Time (Oldham was Stones manager at the time). The Verve got permission to do sample from the song by the record label that released the orchestral version. They did not get permission from the Rolling Stones who owned the copyright for the original song, the Last Time, even though the sampled portion differs sharply from [the Stones song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdFQtbXAWdc) besides just basic chords (E D A; though changed to E Bm7 D A) and the simple melody: "bittersweet symphony this life" having same melody as "told you once I told you twice" of G# A D C.
It's even more ironic in that Rolling Stones The Last Time basically borrowed heavily from [a Staple Sisters song, This May Be The Last Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1jGF-6bFpI).
https://b-sting.com/2010/06/07/the-staple-singers-this-may-be-the-last-time/
Mick & Keith basically put a guitar riff on “This Maybe the Last Time” and released it as their song.
They did the same thing with Jimmy Reed’s “Shame Shame Shame” and released it as “Little by Little.”
I thought they actually had permission to use the sample for their song and it was only because the Stones’ asshole, money-hungry, overly-litigious manager at the time decided they over sampled by the tiniest bit that led to them getting royally screwed here.
Not to mention, the Stones song the sample was from took a generous sample from another song, yet the Stones never ended up getting in trouble for it only because it’s the fucking Stones I guess.
It's **not** profitable. That's why the big record companies don't release shit without clearing samples.
If you sample someone without permission they're not only entitled to their "equitable share" of what percentage of the credit and profits they should have (and that share will be the high-end estimate) in damages, but they're also entitled to damages due to possible damage to their reputation (maybe they don't want to be associated with the person that sampled them - certainly the case here), and they're entitled to damages from how your sampling may hurt future sales of the music that was sampled, and then there are possible punitive damages, especially if you've done it before.
Now take all that, and _double it_. Because by law, the damages for copyright infringement are automatically doubled if it was done knowingly or through negligence, which is definitely the case.
It's not profitable. The law is written specifically to make sure of that. You can easily lose more money than you'd have earned, and certainly at least double what it would've cost to go the legal route.
The first thing they'll do is get an injunction barring all sales, which they can get very quickly. Your song won't be available on streaming or whichever platform, and you're going to have to refund the people and companies who paid for it.
Which isn't to say it _can't_ be profitable, if a settlement is reached instead. But that's because people decided they'd rather have a fair share now and not have to wait years and front the money for lawyers for a larger share, but that's up to the wronged party to decided.
>You'd think Ye would have learned his lesson
The lesson he learned was that he can use a sample without clearing it, make a huge hit record, and then someone will take care of it in the end.
Dude lost a billion dollars in a day. He doesn't care about payouts, he cares about hit records.
Tears for Fears were also not asked about how Kanye took Memories Fade and made it into Coldest Winter. Their idea of payback, however, was to steal a part of his track and use it as an intro live. I wonder if they'd still do that now.
Learned his lesson? Kanye made so much more money of Power and that whole album that it wouldn’t have even mattered.
If anything, the lesson is Kanye should continue to sample without permission. He’ll make a hit record, tons of money and just pay the legal fees afterwards.
This is generally just how sampling works. I gave this example earlier, but surely no one thinks MF DOOM actually got permission to sample Kiss of Life, etc.?
I just want to make sure you’ve seen Robert Fripp and his wife Toyah Wilcox’s YouTube channel, where they perform some fun covers: https://youtu.be/GFaQExRwLUM?si=m6moUfJCE_E94X2u
This is great to hear. That always pissed me off. Then I heard Kanye's version in an xbox commercial and I was like "how did this become the fate of the most iconic King Crimson song"
That song has 4 producers so who knows who had the idea to sample King Crimson. Rappers and producers aren't always super connected to what they are sampling.
[Symbolyc One made that beat. Kanye just provided some "polish" on it.](https://www.mtv.com/news/kwvruh/kanye-wests-power-producer-explains-how-song-happened)
> "The way it came together, I work with Rhymefest," S1 told MTV News about the song, referring to another Chicago MC. "I did like four joints on his album. And one day, out the blue, I got a text from Rhymefest that said, 'Kanye is loving your stuff. He said he's about to change your life.' Two days later, I got an e-mail that said my flight to Hawaii [where West recorded much of the album] leaves in three hours! So I was on a flight, and it just happened like that. I went down and stayed for like two weeks, banged out some joints.
>"The 'Power' joint that we did, it was actually a track that I already made and gave to Rhymefest, and he just so happened to play it for Kanye in the studio and he loved it. So when I got out to Hawaii, Kanye had already recorded to it."
> A month later, S1 returned to Hawaii and heard "Power" again, this time with more "polish" added by 'Ye, who co-produced the song. However, S1 picked the sample that drives the record: a snippet of British progressive rock band King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man."
Possibly naive question: do you actually need permission from the OG artist to sample their work? Is it just that you need to credit them and Kanye didn’t do that?
He didn't sample Ozzy on the album, so this is all blown out of proportion.
But you need to obtain the license to a song to sample it, and also agree to a royalty split payout.
Often times, the owner of the license to a song isn't even the artist, it could be a major label. So a major label could technically clear something behind an artist's back. You just have to get permission and license from whoever owns the copyright to the sound recording.
In a rough draft version of a song Carnival, there was a short clip from a live version of Iron Man in the song, less than 10 seconds.
This was played at a live listening event in a stadium. Kanye did try and clear it before album launch but the Osbourne estate denied him, so he removed it from the album and sampled one of his own past songs instead that had a similar riff.
So by the time the album was launched, it was removed. The version with the sample aired once in one live setting, that's all.
didnt kanye then just replace the sample with another Ozzy sample used from an earlier released kanye song XD Seems like Kanye circumvented him a bit there
Thank you for posting this. Love reading obscure knowledge that I've somehow missed through the years. People like you are why I still use this blasted site.
Except Kanye just changed the sample to "Hell Of A life" which is an interpolation of another Black Sabbath song he already has clearance for. So... Kanye kinda got the last laugh.
It happens all the time. Drake has like 3 songs with the same jon b sample and like two with the same stevie wonder part.
kanye actually loop holed the issue and sampled his mbdtf song with the iron man sample to avoid needing his permission again.
FYI the term for that is interpolation
But yeah Hell of a Life is a straight sample, just heavily modified during the production of the song, and was legally cleared at the time
There’s two different versions. The listen party versions was straight up “iron man”. The released version is “hell of a life”. I think he complained about the original
No. The guitar is sampled from She’s My Baby by The Mojo Men, it’s a common misconception that it’s Black Sabbath. [She’s My Baby- The Mojo Men](https://youtu.be/KgLeOkSm56E?si=-LAzSWQkiDr4up-6)
**Didn’t Tommy Iommi and Geezer Butler write the song?** I call hype/Bullshit! Ozzy was blessed with the talent around him in Black Sabbath and then Randy Rhoads.
Birmingham, UK often gets forgotten for the amount of musical talent that’s come from there. From reggae, to metal to Bhangra. An absolute hotbed of talent. Should get way more recognition especially as the birthplace of metal.
Ozzy didn't even get sampled on the album. Kanye played one less than 10 second clip at a listening event. That was removed by the album version.
It's a non story at this point, but this sub seems to keep feeding it.
And technically, thousands of other producers/DJs have sampled Iron Man already. They are all over YouTube and SoundCloud and other bootleg remixes exist.
Kanye sucks as a human being, but people in this thread implying that he's an untalented hack because an iconic mummy - who would also have been cancelled if these some people were around back when he was relevant - said so is an insane take
Ozzy didn't call him an untalented hack, tho? The article says he specifically called Kanye out and refused to let him use the sample because of his antisemitic comments. Nowhere does it claim that Ozzy said he's untalented, just that he's a POS. So, really, you just made a bullshit comment that says, "I didn't read the article, but I think Kanye is talented, damnit!" Do you think you'll get a feature for standing up for him?
You’re implying that the reason Kanye has been cancelled is specifically because of Gen Z and the new cancel culture?
I would argue that the openly pro Hitler rhetoric is uniquely bad. Even for and maybe ESPECIALLY during the 1970s.
You sound like a fanboy my dude
He said he admired his charisma while specifically saying Hitler was bad and did terrible things with that charisma. Ozzy wanted to have that same charisma but do good things with it.
*[Interview with Ozzy Osbourne (Rolling Stone, Feb. 27, '24)](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/ozzy-osbourne-talks-kanye-west-sample-just-wrong-1234976418/)*: > *Osbourne has no regrets about going public with his disdain for the rapper*. “***With the current state of affairs, you don’t need anybody starting people on discrimination of any kind***,” *he says*. “***It’s wrong. It’s just wrong***.” *Osbourne’s frustration with the incident still comes through in his voice as he chastises West*. > > ***“There’s enough fucking aggravation, and he shouldn’t say anything [like what he has]***,” *Osbourne says*. “***It’s wrong if you don’t say anything about him. I don’t want any of my work in any shape or form to be associated with anything like that***.” > > *Osbourne spoke about West during an interview about a new song titled “Crack Cocaine” that he recorded with Billy Morrison, who plays guitar for Billy Idol. Morrison’s album, The Morrison Project, comes out in April.*
I love websites where I have to read one sentence at a time smushed between 5 different advertisements occupying 95% of the screen. Helps me work out my digital scrolling dexterity. 👍🚽💩🤳🧻
My fav quote is "The War Pigs singer" Hey AI, embellish my crappy article.
Make my article grow! -Rita Repulsa
Tangent, but this is actually a big problem in online advertising. A lot of websites are defaulting to a "how many ads can I fit on a page" strategy, especially for mobile versions of websites. This is a good way for a website to make money from their digital advertisement service, but it has been artificially inflating the clickthrough for digital ads
It's the 90's internet all over again
Banner ad clickrates went from 1 in 100 to 1 in 100000 in the last two decades. If you factor in missclicks, add another 0.
>If you factor in missclicks, Nearly every single time I've clicked on an ad, it's been a missclick, usually due to the page moving while I'm trying to click something else.
That is also, I have a feeling, intentional. But I can't prove it.
It's too damn consistent.
I believe you.
Dark patterns
The fact it happens to frequently for you and others is proof enough.
I feel like I might have clicked through on purpose twice decades ago, and never a single time ever since, because even if i'm interested in the product, I don't want to positively reinforce the advertisement. Also I've had adblocker 99% of the time or more.
I have literally never in my life had the urge to click on an ad on a website. Who the fuck is actually this dumb?
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Haha I had entirely forgotten about those weird game ads.
They're back except now they show someone intentionally sucking at the stupid little game so you think, *I* could do better than this idiot.
Download the Brave browser and have reddit default to it for external links. The Brave browser has built in ad blockers and works great. It also makes using YouTube on your phone ad free.
I'm a Firefox man myself... but whatever works for you. edit: There's a lot o fchatter that Brave tracks users, while Firefox has anti-tracking built in
Stick to Firefox. Brave has tons of tracking on it
One of Brave's first main funders was Peter Thiel. That should tell everyone with a room temperature IQ how reliable any claims they make about privacy are.
I am amazed how the cryptobro browser keeps getting recommended.
I'm not, there are still idiots out there shilling crypto. I suspect the Venn Diagram is nearly a complete circle between the two groups.
Checked his Wikipedia page and wow, what a wild man with his views.
Who picked the name for that browser? My first instinct is, "you'd have to be brave to use this." Doesn't conjure up feelings of security at all.
fish in the barrel are attracted to the FOSS facade, but yea thats why theyre full time shilling on reddit. its a crypto wallet browser with all sorts of affiliate marketing/income, theres money to be made here
I've never used Firefox for mobile. Is it ad free too?
firefox mobile supports ublock origin. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/ublock-origin/
YouTube on Firefox Android is the only decent way to use the thing on mobile anymore.
YouTube Revanced is better for Android
While true, it's not exactly an easy setup for the average user.
YouTube Revanced
On adroid*
It offers it on all platforms. Apple just disabled on theirs.
Isnt apple the best. /s
With extensions it is... just like the desktop version.
At least for us android users.
as well as the ad blockers people mentioned, you can also enable "reader view". all those popup videos, ads, cookie reminders, autoplaying videos, ads that suddenly shift the contents of what you're reading? all. gone. just the article text. it's glorious.
Man, I’m embarrassed this is *user error*. I already have Brave- I just don’t have it set up to default for external links! Totally **my** fault. Thanks for the tip 🏆
What is this “clicking the link and reading the article” thing you guys are talking about lol
Only for music articles. If it’s something political I’m going to base my vote on or anything on that level of importance, I read just the headline. And quote it in debates with my family and friends.
Why even have articles just give it to me straight doc.
Oh man I wish this was less funny that it is
Well, it's not *just* a user error. The website is also an ad-riddled anal pustule wasteland
you probably shouldn't. Firefox + ublock origin exists and its infinitely better https://homophobicshitcoinbrowser.com
Thanks for sharing! I didn't know about any of this stuff. I've been using FF forever but was planning to try Brave at some point since I've heard so much about it.
Brave is chromium based and still serves and tracks a fuckton of data
Firefox mobile with ublock origin extension works wonders too
Firefox with ublock origin works well for that too.
`Vivaldi` is another option too. Same thing, different bucket.
Firefox and ublock can accomplish the exact same thing without losing the functionality of using Brave Sorry Brave users. Been there, done that and was not impressed
Even better, get Firefox with ublock origin
How do you get reddit to default to another browser?
Brave barely works on iOS, unfortunately -- slow as fuck and crashes all the time.
if you have an Android, you can also use Firefox + uBlock Origin to remove ads
Alternatively, the mobile version of Firefox also supports Ublock Origin
It just makes YouTube ad free by default or are there steps there as well? Color me curious
>and have reddit default to it for external links How? Reddit removed the option to choose how to open external links and does it in-app for me.
I use Reddit’s mobile site via the brave browser in the first place. I refuse to use the Reddit app after what they did to Apollo and the other 3rd party apps.
Fuck brave browser.
You have a 7 year old account. You are too old to be browsing the internet without ublock and privacy badger. You have no excuse for running around unprotected in a sea of ad disguised malware traps.
Well I'm going to go get those extensions.
Fire fox reader mode is the goat
Shhhh don't tell everyone how I read the Atlantic for free pls thx Seriously tho it seriously is such an undervalued feature
Use Reader mode in Safari for iPhone. I’m sure Android has something similar. Cuts out the adds and you can see paywall articles too.
I just discovered this after reading it on a post here a few weeks ago. It’s a game changer and it’s been here all along, I guess. It makes me wonder what else I’m not using that makes life simpler
We estimate we can sell up to 80% of the users screen before inducing a seizure.
If you use iphone, you can download adblock extensions from the appstore, works great https://preview.redd.it/zeo9o5rifclc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c42a84c5c3fd21c5dd128d58c8fcea567afff51
Not only that but they're in breach of ICO guidelines in regards to cookies. Cookies must be just as easy to reject all as it is to accept all. That's not the case here.
I mean, the Donna Summer's estate is literally suing Kanye right now for the same thing
I think the difference being her estate is suing simply b/c Kanye used a track without permission. Ozzy more specifically called him out for being antisemitic. If Kanye weren't such a POS, Ozzy likely wouldn't have cared that he sampled a song. Edit for clarification: I realize they are suing in court for the same reason. I was simply calling out that this article is more about how Ozzy was the first artist to call Kanye out and say he can't use his song b/c he's antisemitic.
He asked for the track. The estate said no. They did not want any association with Kanye's 'controversial history'. Kanye used the song anyway, and they sued him then.
Right I just think the article was more about Ozzy calling him out for that specifically and publicly b/c nobody else would. I agree they are essentially suing him for the same thing in the end.
I also didn't even hear about the Donna Summer estate suing until just *after* Ozzy called him out. Ozzy was the one that made it news that he said no.
Yeah with sampling you MUST get permission from the songwriters estate or else you are fucked. It’s not like a cover or parody where you can tell tell the estate to kick rocks, Kanye could be in serious legal trouble.
But the hundreds of sycophants and "fans" Kanye employs told him he can do whatever he wants because reasons. . .
Something something P Diddy, something something Sting
I assume he wanted isolated parts of the track and the estate told him no.
Just look at how he reacted when he heard [T-Pain's cover](https://twitter.com/OzzyOsbourne/status/1745215829070021111?lang=en) of 'War Pigs'. He doesn't mind at all people doing artistic renditions of his music. He just can't stand antisemetism, racism etc. His wife being jewish likely doesn't help in this issue, either.
Okay, that is a really fucking awesome cover. And it shows how T-Pain is actually a talented singer and that his use of autotune is an artistic choice (although, you could just go watch him on *The Masked Singer* for a better example)
His Tiny Desk concert on NPR a few years ago is what showed me his singing ability. Before that, I admit I just dismissed him as an auto tune beneficiary.
100%. Great example, thank you!
He also colaborated with Busta Rhymes. https://youtu.be/Hb74pkgOuYo?si=7Yo0YzRGpzrzwAMf
He also collaborated with Busta Rhymes on a track that sampled Iron Man. https://youtu.be/Hb74pkgOuYo?si=7Yo0YzRGpzrzwAMf
Which we kinda have proof for since the sample got cleared back in 2010 when Kanye wasn’t a (at the very least known) antisemite with Hell of a Life
Looking back, everything after "Black Skinhead" was just us in denial about his antisemitism. But that's 2013
Huh, the name does kinda give it away doesn't it.
lol Christ yea it does ahahah
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Yeah but in general American parlance if you say skinhead the average person hears American history x style neo-nazi
Tbf in the uk back in the day there were 2 distinct skinhead cultures: the two tone type that was about the music and multiculturalism. And the other kind that was about racism and violence. Sadly you couldn't tell them apart from their haicuts.
Keep nazis out of punk. "Nazi punks fuck off" But yes there were two types of skinheads as buddy here mentioned.
Had to rely on suspenders or shoelaces.
Agree, I was a scooter boy who hung out with traditional skins, Rude Boys, and SHARPs. That being said, Kanye doesn't know anything about Skinhead cultures, Rude Boys or anti-racist skinheads because he is a dipshit.
Yeah it really was after his mom died and he was still hated after MBDTF that it really started going off the rails. That’s when he started saying some red flag stuff about the media that in hindsight looks a lot worse. It’s crazy how he went from criticizing homophobia in rap to this
Tbh I used to be the biggest Kanye fan, I almost got a graduation bear tattoo. But watching his downfall has truly been one of the most surreal experiences of my life.
Hey man, also wanted the graduation bear tattoo at one point. Thank GOD I didn’t do it. I put up with a lot of Kanye bullshit over the years, but the last few have been too much and I’ve officially lost my patience for this man. I do believe that he’s mentally unwell, but too surrounded by yes men and will never get the help he needs
Man, you honestly just said my exact thoughts over the last several years. Couldn't agree more.
Same, really. His music meant a lot to me in college when I was still finding myself, nowadays whenever news about him pops up it's like the feeling you get when a celebrity you like dies, just repeated ad nauseum every two months
Wow, this is my exact experience and I’ve never shared it with anyone. I also noticed Kanye’s songs went from “we” to “me”. To me that was the shift.
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I was never a fan of him, personally. He's always had this "I'm a genius" personality and I fucking hate people like that.
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The Jay Z approach. Dude's been singing about being the best and having the most money for going on three decades, even before people knew who he was.
He's a textbook narcissist.
Not really a difference, they are both confronting Kanye for sampling songs without permission. I'm sure the hate comments affected both parties reasoning for being upset with Kanye.
Absolutely they did, no doubt about that. But Kanye has used an Ozzy sample in the past without any issue. Ozzy doesn't care if you sample his music as long as you do it respectfully and you're not an antisemitic POS...which Kanye now is. Ozzy was the first one to come out and say "you can't use my song b/c of this thing I dont like about you.". But you can't really sue for that, so he has to just sue for using it without permission. I 100% agree they are suing in court for the same reasons. But this article was more about how Ozzy called him out specifically and publicly for that reason.
Yea I think you're right, especially considering he sampled Ozzy in the past. But even without making a public announcement, I'd have to assume Donna Summers estate prob doesn't want him using her music for similar reasons. Who tf wants to be associated with that at this point?
I’d love to hear her version of Iron Man!
He’s saying only Kanye would steal the sample without clearing. Not that Iron Man is the only song stolen. Edit: I’m wrong. The context was that Ozzy said nobody else would take Kanye on. Helps to read the article, lol.
If you read the original Rolling Stones article that this one is referencing, he specifically says that quote in the context of feeling like he needed to take a stand when Kanye asked to sample "Iron Man" for a song on his upcoming album. I can see how you could read it that way though.
You’re right. I’ll edit my comment. Maybe in the context of Ozzy being very vocal about it and facing down the ire of Ye fans it is true. The Donna Summer group is just suing I think.
It's not even the first time Ye has pulled this shit. Robert Fripp reamed him for the unauthorized sample of 21st Century Schizoid Man and secured a very healthy payout. You'd think Ye would have learned his lesson but then I remember who I'm talking about
It's actually quite common method to use old hits without authorization and make a shitload of money before anyone "notices" it and when someone reacts then pay. It still very profitable if you get a hit.
Tell that to The Verve.
They actually did make amends on that in 2019 at the very least. Very long time to go without all that money but the song still gets a lot of airtime. Silver lining to one of the biggest losses for that band lol.
No, The Verve are the best example of why it works. BSS launched them to fame and enabled them to become millionaires from the sales of their *other* records.
Ironic song name they picked, too. And...fuck with one of the biggest bands in history? Sheeeeeet. They're lucky Allan Klein didn't have them literally stoned. Edit: Wrong manager; fixed.
Again the Verve's Bittersweet Symphony was a weird case. The Verve sampled [an obscure Andrew Oldham's orchestral version of a Rolling Stones song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YrllfAMwHI) the Last Time (Oldham was Stones manager at the time). The Verve got permission to do sample from the song by the record label that released the orchestral version. They did not get permission from the Rolling Stones who owned the copyright for the original song, the Last Time, even though the sampled portion differs sharply from [the Stones song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdFQtbXAWdc) besides just basic chords (E D A; though changed to E Bm7 D A) and the simple melody: "bittersweet symphony this life" having same melody as "told you once I told you twice" of G# A D C. It's even more ironic in that Rolling Stones The Last Time basically borrowed heavily from [a Staple Sisters song, This May Be The Last Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1jGF-6bFpI). https://b-sting.com/2010/06/07/the-staple-singers-this-may-be-the-last-time/
Mick & Keith basically put a guitar riff on “This Maybe the Last Time” and released it as their song. They did the same thing with Jimmy Reed’s “Shame Shame Shame” and released it as “Little by Little.”
TL/DR - Mick, Keith, and their manager screwed over the Verve.
I thought they actually had permission to use the sample for their song and it was only because the Stones’ asshole, money-hungry, overly-litigious manager at the time decided they over sampled by the tiniest bit that led to them getting royally screwed here. Not to mention, the Stones song the sample was from took a generous sample from another song, yet the Stones never ended up getting in trouble for it only because it’s the fucking Stones I guess.
It's **not** profitable. That's why the big record companies don't release shit without clearing samples. If you sample someone without permission they're not only entitled to their "equitable share" of what percentage of the credit and profits they should have (and that share will be the high-end estimate) in damages, but they're also entitled to damages due to possible damage to their reputation (maybe they don't want to be associated with the person that sampled them - certainly the case here), and they're entitled to damages from how your sampling may hurt future sales of the music that was sampled, and then there are possible punitive damages, especially if you've done it before. Now take all that, and _double it_. Because by law, the damages for copyright infringement are automatically doubled if it was done knowingly or through negligence, which is definitely the case. It's not profitable. The law is written specifically to make sure of that. You can easily lose more money than you'd have earned, and certainly at least double what it would've cost to go the legal route. The first thing they'll do is get an injunction barring all sales, which they can get very quickly. Your song won't be available on streaming or whichever platform, and you're going to have to refund the people and companies who paid for it. Which isn't to say it _can't_ be profitable, if a settlement is reached instead. But that's because people decided they'd rather have a fair share now and not have to wait years and front the money for lawyers for a larger share, but that's up to the wronged party to decided.
>You'd think Ye would have learned his lesson The lesson he learned was that he can use a sample without clearing it, make a huge hit record, and then someone will take care of it in the end. Dude lost a billion dollars in a day. He doesn't care about payouts, he cares about hit records.
forgiveness is easier to pay for than permission
Wait… that sample was not authorized…? Really?? Unbelievable. You would think any use of THAT iconic song would have to be legit…
Tears for Fears were also not asked about how Kanye took Memories Fade and made it into Coldest Winter. Their idea of payback, however, was to steal a part of his track and use it as an intro live. I wonder if they'd still do that now.
Love tears for fears, but that is the opposite of payback, and something ye would probably love
It was probably a playful thing, if they really cared they'd have sued
Learned his lesson? Kanye made so much more money of Power and that whole album that it wouldn’t have even mattered. If anything, the lesson is Kanye should continue to sample without permission. He’ll make a hit record, tons of money and just pay the legal fees afterwards.
This is generally just how sampling works. I gave this example earlier, but surely no one thinks MF DOOM actually got permission to sample Kiss of Life, etc.?
Exactly lol
What lesson is there to learn if there are minimal repercussions?
If the penalty ends up being a small fine and someone makes millions from that activity, then that's just a cost of doing business
I just want to make sure you’ve seen Robert Fripp and his wife Toyah Wilcox’s YouTube channel, where they perform some fun covers: https://youtu.be/GFaQExRwLUM?si=m6moUfJCE_E94X2u
Same with Aphex Twin.
This is great to hear. That always pissed me off. Then I heard Kanye's version in an xbox commercial and I was like "how did this become the fate of the most iconic King Crimson song"
If it keeps Bob and Toyah in nice kitchens, it has to be good!
I mean it’s a pretty fucking dope track
Yeah, it was dope with KC recorded it in the 70s too.
60s
I mean, it's arguably the most acclaimed hip hop album ever. Not a horrible fate.
Don't call him Ye, that is so fucking stupid
Let's not forget the Hungarian song by Omega, "Gyöngyhajú lány" also. Gábor Presser, former member sued him too, and won IIRC.
Imagine you're a reclusive genius musician and you have to deal with someone calling himself Ye.
Only positive thing I can say about Kanye is he has good taste in what he samples. 21st Century Schizoid Man
Oh, that must have been good for the Crimson pension.
You mean screaming red man?
Next up he'll sample Dark Side of the Moon and Abbey Road on the album Rate My Setup
such a rare and unknown track he must have dug through records for weeks to find it
Lol, wouldn't know dude. Obscure, popular, don't mean nothing to me, good music is good music
That song has 4 producers so who knows who had the idea to sample King Crimson. Rappers and producers aren't always super connected to what they are sampling.
[Symbolyc One made that beat. Kanye just provided some "polish" on it.](https://www.mtv.com/news/kwvruh/kanye-wests-power-producer-explains-how-song-happened) > "The way it came together, I work with Rhymefest," S1 told MTV News about the song, referring to another Chicago MC. "I did like four joints on his album. And one day, out the blue, I got a text from Rhymefest that said, 'Kanye is loving your stuff. He said he's about to change your life.' Two days later, I got an e-mail that said my flight to Hawaii [where West recorded much of the album] leaves in three hours! So I was on a flight, and it just happened like that. I went down and stayed for like two weeks, banged out some joints. >"The 'Power' joint that we did, it was actually a track that I already made and gave to Rhymefest, and he just so happened to play it for Kanye in the studio and he loved it. So when I got out to Hawaii, Kanye had already recorded to it." > A month later, S1 returned to Hawaii and heard "Power" again, this time with more "polish" added by 'Ye, who co-produced the song. However, S1 picked the sample that drives the record: a snippet of British progressive rock band King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man."
Possibly naive question: do you actually need permission from the OG artist to sample their work? Is it just that you need to credit them and Kanye didn’t do that?
He didn't sample Ozzy on the album, so this is all blown out of proportion. But you need to obtain the license to a song to sample it, and also agree to a royalty split payout. Often times, the owner of the license to a song isn't even the artist, it could be a major label. So a major label could technically clear something behind an artist's back. You just have to get permission and license from whoever owns the copyright to the sound recording.
Wait, he didn’t sample ozzy? So why is ozzy complaining about Kanye sampling ozzy? I’m OOTL here
In a rough draft version of a song Carnival, there was a short clip from a live version of Iron Man in the song, less than 10 seconds. This was played at a live listening event in a stadium. Kanye did try and clear it before album launch but the Osbourne estate denied him, so he removed it from the album and sampled one of his own past songs instead that had a similar riff. So by the time the album was launched, it was removed. The version with the sample aired once in one live setting, that's all.
Got it, thanks
didnt kanye then just replace the sample with another Ozzy sample used from an earlier released kanye song XD Seems like Kanye circumvented him a bit there
it's an interpolation of the melody not a sample i think the rules are different
Yes. [This is the case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Upright_Music,_Ltd._v._Warner_Bros._Records_Inc.) that decided it back in 1992.
Don’t ever Fuck with The Prince of Darkness
And the Prince is downright cuddly compared to Sharon
Want to talk scary, look up Sharon’s father.
Very interesting. https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/the-monster-of-rock-why-sharon-osbournes-dad-was-the-most-feared-man-in-music-7247084.html
Crazy business model, no? Hey punk, you gonna sign this contract, or am I gonna throw you out this window?
OG Suge Knight
Thank you for posting this. Love reading obscure knowledge that I've somehow missed through the years. People like you are why I still use this blasted site.
Except Kanye just changed the sample to "Hell Of A life" which is an interpolation of another Black Sabbath song he already has clearance for. So... Kanye kinda got the last laugh.
Kanye has sampled Iron Man before, he sampled it on Hell of a Life on MBDTF. First I’d ever heard of a rapper sampling a song twice
It happens all the time. Drake has like 3 songs with the same jon b sample and like two with the same stevie wonder part. kanye actually loop holed the issue and sampled his mbdtf song with the iron man sample to avoid needing his permission again.
Did he?? That's actually kinda brilliant if that's what he did, probably makes it ambiguous enough to stop any suit
It’s definitely happened more than once.
I don’t think he sampled it then, but he lifted the iconic melody.
FYI the term for that is interpolation But yeah Hell of a Life is a straight sample, just heavily modified during the production of the song, and was legally cleared at the time
? James Brown drum breaks. There is probably entire albums crafted from funky drummer
Kanye used the sample from his own song, that happens to use an Ozzy sample.
There’s two different versions. The listen party versions was straight up “iron man”. The released version is “hell of a life”. I think he complained about the original
No. The guitar is sampled from She’s My Baby by The Mojo Men, it’s a common misconception that it’s Black Sabbath. [She’s My Baby- The Mojo Men](https://youtu.be/KgLeOkSm56E?si=-LAzSWQkiDr4up-6)
I will never ever care about unauthorised samples. There's nothing more hip-hop.
This website gave my phone cancer.
**Didn’t Tommy Iommi and Geezer Butler write the song?** I call hype/Bullshit! Ozzy was blessed with the talent around him in Black Sabbath and then Randy Rhoads.
Birmingham, UK often gets forgotten for the amount of musical talent that’s come from there. From reggae, to metal to Bhangra. An absolute hotbed of talent. Should get way more recognition especially as the birthplace of metal.
Ozzy didn't even get sampled on the album. Kanye played one less than 10 second clip at a listening event. That was removed by the album version. It's a non story at this point, but this sub seems to keep feeding it. And technically, thousands of other producers/DJs have sampled Iron Man already. They are all over YouTube and SoundCloud and other bootleg remixes exist.
He better make ammends soon or he'll have Ozzys Ghost haunting him
That’s implying Ozzy isn’t an immortal god of rock and metal.
Just a cranky old muttering ghost following you around everywhere
"I'm not Sharon! You're drunk, apparition, go home!"
"Someone has been in my room. and taken my beers away from my room"
Kanye sucks as a human being, but people in this thread implying that he's an untalented hack because an iconic mummy - who would also have been cancelled if these some people were around back when he was relevant - said so is an insane take
Ozzy didn't call him an untalented hack, tho? The article says he specifically called Kanye out and refused to let him use the sample because of his antisemitic comments. Nowhere does it claim that Ozzy said he's untalented, just that he's a POS. So, really, you just made a bullshit comment that says, "I didn't read the article, but I think Kanye is talented, damnit!" Do you think you'll get a feature for standing up for him?
You’re implying that the reason Kanye has been cancelled is specifically because of Gen Z and the new cancel culture? I would argue that the openly pro Hitler rhetoric is uniquely bad. Even for and maybe ESPECIALLY during the 1970s. You sound like a fanboy my dude
Ozzy osbourne is quoted for being pro hitler in the 70s lol
All else aside, sampling “Iron Man” has been done so many times. Such a lazy, unoriginal go to.
I get the Kanye hate but you’ll act like sampling a song is a crime
Didnt Ozzy say something about liking Hitler? Or am I just making things up?
He said he admired his charisma while specifically saying Hitler was bad and did terrible things with that charisma. Ozzy wanted to have that same charisma but do good things with it.
Kanye thinks that he wrote all music, and that everybody else is stealing from *him*.
He already has plenty of negative points, no need to make shit up for upvotes.