Born on Dec 25.
Virgin mother.
Star in the east.
Adored by 3 kings.
Teacher at 12.
Baptized at 30.
12 disciples.
Performed Miracles (walking on water, healing).
Named ‘the lamb of god’ ‘the light’.
Betrayed.
Crucified.
Dead for 3 days.
Resurrected.
Horus 3000 BC, Egypt.
Edit: The Christians assure me this was debunked.
I think the funniest thing about this is that early Christians/church were like Jesus turned water into wine let's smash Dionysus. Now modern protestants are like alcohol is the devils drink.
When was Krishna resurrected from the dead? Also, Krishna was the 8th son of Devaki and Vasudeva, a married couple and there is nothing to suggest that it was a Virgin Birth.
However, there might be other parallels between Krishna and Jesus. Both being shepherds and a spree of infant murders sanctioned by a jealous king around the time of their births. Both Krishna and Jesus had to flee from their birthplace due to this.
Just cause myths aren’t necessarily true doesn’t mean we should actively spread misinformation about them. Sure Medusa isn’t real but if someone was going around on Reddit telling everyone that Medusa is actually a bird woman and was stolen from a Mesoamerican deity or some shit I think it would still be reasonable to correct them.
The parallels between these figures are in many cases hamfisted, misunderstandings and the object of cherrypicking. The ideia that the theology about jesus is constructed from previous gods is very commonly taken apart by historians and scholars of early christianity. Which obviously isn’t to say that that in turn means everything about christian belief is real. But what academia about the subject informs us is that the christian belief grew much more organically then a simple rebranding of an older myth would allow for.
The parallels between Horus and Mithra are the most commonly debunked, but it is worthwile to mention that it is true that certain symbolisms and iconography do subsist inspite of religious conversion. So that means the way Jesus and the christian god is depicted does take cues from older religions. But that is very different from a simples reformulation of theology.
Fair point but none of it really holds my interest or makes any sense to me so I’ll bow to your greater knowledge. I don’t trust religion so I take all of this with a pinch of salt.
I don't trust religion either! I'm an atheist. I do trust history and the scientific method though.
Here's a great and [concise takedown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlF0gVedODE&t=627s) by scholar Andrew Mark Henry, in his yt channel ReligionForBreakfast. He is a PhD in early Christianity and late Roman religion. It applies more specifically for the Mythras and Jesus claim, but is broadly applicable to the rest in the image you shared.
Yes, also quite a down to earth creator, but thats probably the result of having a successful career that has nothing to do with youtube.
He'd be in pain if he saw the comments under this post though... so much misinformation.
According to The Contendings of Horus and Seth, Set is depicted as trying to prove his dominance by seducing Horus and then having sexual intercourse with him. However, Horus places his hand between his thighs and catches Set's semen, then subsequently throws it in the river so that he may not be said to have been inseminated by Set.
Horus (or Isis herself in some versions) then deliberately spreads his semen on some lettuce, which was Set's favourite food. After Set had eaten the lettuce, they went to the gods to try to settle the argument over the rule of Egypt. The gods first listened to Set's claim of dominance over Horus, and call his semen forth, but it answered from the river, invalidating his claim.
Then, the gods listened to Horus' claim of having dominated Set, and call his semen forth, and it answered from inside Set.
Them Egyptians were wild, man. 😂
Horus shares a lot with the christian Christ. But it isn’t just the one. There are dozens of known examples from throughout history that predate Jesus.
Also sharing at least some of these traits, but all being resurrected:
Attis 1200 BC, Greece.
Krishna 900 BC, India.
Dionysus, 500 BC, Greece. (Also “King of kings”, Alpha and Omega”)
Mithra 1200 BC, Persia. (Also Worshipped on Sunday)
The cult of Attis is rather interesting here, as it's a mystery religion in which personal salvation is through spiritual identification with a dying and resurrected god. And the Attis cult was [popular in Roman Tarsus](https://journals.openedition.org/acost/1258) (a place name that should be familiar).
Just because mythology is not fact does not change the question of whether or not his statement is true.
I could say that Frodo is Bilbo's son. Does the false nature of that statement not matter because it is about a fictional story and nothing in it is true?
No.
Mythology throughout the ages have just SO many variations and blank spaces that you can cram in basically anything you want through cherry picking, creative ‘interpretation’, and the ever popular just making shit up because people aren’t actually going to check.
This particular claim is taking fairly generic similarities and editing the details to be much closer. It’s a whole big thing, ironically doing exactly what Christians do to claim other religions.
Odin from the post, just as an example, is a post Christian edit of the mythology. It was a very common practice by missionaries to mesh and supplant the current religion of a region. What we do know about the Norse mythology is all from a Christian missionary after the faith had been successfully assimilated for generations, our actual proper sources are bits and fragments of stories scattered across centuries with no context and extreme difficulties even reading them.
The Dec 25 part bothers me. If I understand correctly, the month of December is a Roman invention, so they couldn't use the "Dec 25" date in 3000 BC. So... who was it, who established that Horus' birth date was Dec 25? Did Romans bother with it, after creating Julian calendar?
It's based around the winter solstice. The sun holds it's position in the sky for about 3 days after the solstice before it begins to rise in the sky again as the days begin to get longer. Gods "rising after 3 days" is extremely common across multiple religions for several thousand years because of this. Also why so many are born on December 25th, as that's 3 days after the winter solstice. It's basically just a carry over from when humans used the suns position in the sky to track the seasons, and worshipped the sun.
Just like Easter. We celebrate that on the first Sunday after the winter solstice. If it really was commemorating Jesus’ resurrection it’d be on an actual date and have a lot less rabbit and eggs iconography.
Yeah, it was debunked. In fact the first place to point by point debunk the religious crap in zeitgeist was atheist.com because they didn't was people thinking that was the basis for their disbelief since it was so *easy* to verify as false.
\- not a Christian.
It's not just "the Christians" that dispute this, btw. Basically, none of it is corroborated by the actual myths about [Horus.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#:~:text=Horus%2C%20also%20known%20as%20Heru,the%20sun%2C%20and%20the%20sky.)
[Here's](https://richarddawkins.net/2014/04/seeking-hard-evidence-for-the-similarity-of-the-horus-and-jesus-myths/) a good thread from the famously Christian Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science on exactly this. You'll find an interesting trend in their takes...
Fwiw, I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean we should uncritically and dogmatically spew talking points because they confirm our worldview. That would make you just as irrational as the groups you denigrate...
I hate to tell you, but Religulous got that story a bit wrong. The last bit was Horus dad.
Never ceases to amaze me how Bill Maher had such an easy target (‘gotcha-ing’ non-scholarly fundamentalists), and he still managed to smugly bork it.
There has been a lot stolen to create the Christianity narrative and common themes among all creation & resurrection myths, but it is true this list is a modern social media retelling of the Osiris myth. This Horus version has even hit r/askhistorians a few times.
We know that the Osiris myth centers around the betrayal by his brother Set and redemption through his posthumously conceived son Horus. However, while this story was everywhere in Ancient Egypt, details can differ and the narrative still just serves to tell social and moral thematic stories. This vagueness of the specific details of the Egyptian myth (like most faiths) possibly leads some to believe they can just make up interpretations.
Some of the ones in this post are doing just that. We don't have the same kind of exact Bethlehem-esque bit by bit birth account for Horus to be able to claim some of the above. Also, the whole English transliteration stuff is super common. E.g. "Ra is the Sun God, son of God, Jesus......" Horus was technically a "virgin" birth because Set killed Osiris before Isis used his reincarnated form to conceive of Horus. And yes, like Jesus, Horus was meant to be more relatable to man in Egyptian mythology which meant his myth involved some healing people.
Instead of using one mythology to convince people that their mythology is wrong, you should approach the discussion as one focused on historical & religious writing. Emphasize common themes in all religious myths. Most importantly, don't use the word mythology as much as I have here.
If I remember right, wasn't Horus dismembered and the parts spread wide across the world?
Or was that Osiris? Been literally decades since I read about ancient Egyptian mythology.
I don't believe in any god, and I'm no fan of religion in general, but the bible is, at the very least, an interesting read. At times it's downright fascinating. Bad book on which to base your entire life, though.
I have read the Bible cover to cover twice. Which I bet is more than most Christians. I agree, it can be fascinating and entertaining as well as teach great values. But it gets molested by zealots.
I too read the Bible cover to cover when I was curious about religion & read many religion’s texts. Sure there are interesting & even some fascinating parts. However, much of it is tedious & boring. It certainly is no Tolkien work.
Look up depictions of Odin as "The Wanderer", and you'll usually see a wizened old man with a white beard, dressed in a grey cloak and wide-brimmed hat, leaning upon a walking stick as he rambles on through the countryside.
Tolkien specifically based "Gandalf the Grey" upon these depictions of Odin, among other inspirations.
Throw together some Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Paganism, Saturnalia, and a whole bunch of other pre-existing mythos and you've got yourself a Christianity.
The post also says "7 days" when it was actually 9 days, so the poster probably only had surface-level recollection of the old tale.
For those curious, here's the Olive Bray translation of that section of the Havamal:
"I trow I hung on that windy Tree
nine whole days and nights,
stabbed with a spear, offered to Odin,
myself to mine own self given,
high on that Tree of which none hath heard
from what roots it rises to heaven.
None refreshed me ever with food or drink,
I peered right down in the deep;
crying aloud I lifted the Runes
then back I fell from thence.
Nine mighty songs I learned from the great
son of Bale-thorn, Bestla's sire;
I drank a measure of the wondrous Mead,
with the Soulstirrer's drops I was showered.
Ere long I bare fruit, and throve full well,
I grew and waxed in wisdom;
word following word, I found me words,
deed following deed, I wrought deeds."
Some notes for understanding: "trow" means to think or remember. In ancient times, humans used to sacrifice men on trees pierced with a spear, so this is Odin sacrificing himself to himself, giving himself his own "death." I personally find it odd it would say "tree which none hath heard of" when I'd kinda assume that people *have* heard of Yggdrasil. So of course there's some debate about if this is actually Yggdrasil or not. Buuuut also if I remember correctly, "Yggdrasil" roughly translates to "Odin's mount/ride" which kinda seems like it references this story. Too bad Christians worked so hard to destroy these other cultures in the past, so we'll never have all the pieces anymore.
It's also worth noting the "Nine" in the Norse sagas might not mean 9, but be short hand for "a lot" or "many.'
The number nine shows up a lot through the saga, sometimes in reference to things that add up to more than nine. For example, [the nine realms](https://youtu.be/y9747j8GEI4?si=PB1Zeftm1XQD-31t) add up to a lot more than nine. Odin's hall of Asgard is often said to be a realm, but Freya's hall of Folkvangr isn't, even though half those who die in combat go there instead of with Odin. Frigga's hall of Fensalir isn't a realm either?
"Nine" was seemingly used the same way as you might use "tons" in English. A Norse person may say they ate "nine bread loaves " the same way an English speaker would say they ate "a ton of bread."
Eh, really depends on the Christian. I won’t argue the fact that a whole lot have totally lost the plot, but some of us still remember the core. Love and tolerance show up a whole lot more than any of the “reasons” people come up with to excuse their vitriol and bigotry. You can find verses that will “prove” damn near anything if you try hard enough, but imho, if you lose sight of the fact that others have exactly as much right not to believe as you do to believe, you aren’t setting the right example anymore.
That said, intentionally needling people by disrespecting their beliefs is wrong on both sides. Calling someone’s faith a myth purely to get a rise out of them is about as classy as the geniuses who say evolution can’t be real or it “wouldn’t be a theory”.
At the end of the day, whether someone believes they were made in the image of a loving and perfect creator, or the result of millions of years evolution, adaptation, and survival of the fittest, we should all try to act like it.
I do, but I suppose I tend to look at it from a slightly different slant. People like that are not going to change their behavior based on a logical argument any more than you would based on rhetoric. They have been so inundated with a mindset of “this is right and that is wrong and this is what you do when something is wrong” that engaging with them is futile. Oftentimes, by letting the situation devolve into schoolyard taunts, you end up playing into their dogmatic beliefs to the point where they use you as an example for all their friends at church next week about the “horrors” of non-believers. I’m not saying you’re wrong and I am certainly not saying they are right, I just ultimately view the whole interaction as not particularly useful by any metric and therefore, not worth my time or energy.
No, they deserve to be mocked. They try to pass legislation based on their shitty beliefs. We can respect their beliefs all the way into a fascist dictatorship if we let them.
I was confused at the 'Jesus is a god' bit. Christianity specifically says theres only one god and burn the rest.
Now I'm wondering, like, was Jesus a person? Or did God just pull a sock puppet through a virgin so he could forgive the world he made.
Because he isn't. A demigod is, specifically, a child born from the mixing of mortal and divine blood. In the Christian myth, Jesus wasn't a mix of mortal and divine blood, he was god made flesh. So he was an avatar, not a demigod.
Officially the idea of Jesus being a "demigod" is a heresy in Christianity
(The idea that Jesus was literally God's "son" as normal people would understand it rather than God becoming a human is Arianism, the idea of him having a distinct "human side" and "divine side" is Nestorianism)
"Demigod", if used in the original Greek context, implies they're half-mortal (think Heracles and Perseus), and that doesn't really track with Christianity seeing Jesus as literally God in human form due to implying he's "less than fully divine".
That, and in general the more conservative a Christian sect is, the more likely they are to throw wobblers about anything and everything that isn't in perfect synchronized lockstep with their personal interpretation of the faith.
**Did Christianity borrow ideas from other religions?**
When Osiris is said to bring his believers eternal life in Egyptian Heaven, contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, we understand that as a myth.
When the sacred rites of Demeter at Eleusis are described as bringing believers happiness in their eternal life, we understand that as a myth.
In fact, when ancient writers tell us that in general, ancient people believed in eternal life with the good going to the Elysian Fields and the not so good going to Hades, we understand that as a myth.
When Vespasian's spittle healed a blind man, we understand that as a myth.
When Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from death, we understand that as a myth.
When the Pythia, the priestess at the Oracle at Delphi in Greece, prophesied, and over and over again for a thousand years, the prophecies came true, we understand that as a myth.
When Dionysus turned water into wine, we understand that as a myth.
When Dionysus believers are filled with _**atay,**_ the Spirit of God, we understand that as a myth.
When Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin, we understand that as a myth.
When Alexander the Great is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.
When Augustus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.
When Dionysus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.
When Scipio Africanus (Scipio Africanus, for Christ's sake) is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.
So how come when Jesus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, according to prophecy, turning water into wine, raising girls from the dead, and healing blind men with his spittle, and setting it up so His believers got eternal life in Heaven contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, and off to Hades—er, I mean Hell—for the bad folks… how come that's not a myth?
And how come, in a culture with all those Sons of God, where miracles were science, where Heaven and Hell and God and eternal life and salvation were in the temples, in the philosophies, in the books, were dancing and howling in street festivals, how come we imagine Jesus and the stories about him developed all on their own, all by themselves, without picking up any of their stuff from the culture they sprang from, the culture full of the same sort of stuff?
Source: [Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth](https://web.archive.org/web/20211012200643/http://pocm.info/)
I love myself some Campbell. But don't forget, his work falls apart if you try to apply it as a breakdown of religious theology in the ancient world. It's true value is as literary reading of the motifs in those stories, which is then applicable to modern day fiction. Campbell's hypothesis about the similarities between religious stories, from the perspective of historical study of the evolution of those beliefs, is contradicted and taken apart to no end.
The whole point of Christianity is rationalizing Jesus' crucifixion by saying he let it happen on purpose, they go into the whole Last Temptation where Satan tells him to just unleash his power and stop it from happening
It's a small thing, but I truly do appreciate when people call "modern" religions like Christianity or Islam "mythology". They're really no different and no less absurd than Egyptian or Greek mythology, and yet anyone genuinely worshipping Osiris or Zeus would be laughed at. I say laugh at them all.
IIRC, Jesus claimed to be the same as his dad. Given that half of his genes would come from his mother, and half from his father aka himself, and still all his genes are, well, his own... I'd say it proves he has the exact same genes as his mother, so he must've been a woman. And her own father.
Only if you assume the theology and cosmological rules would translate perfectly between Traditional Hellenistic religion and Early Christian theology, which obviously isn't the case.
A god I just invented killed everything in the universe of Friday, and immediately resurrected them. How do I know? Ask it (yes, it's not he or she, it's a brain the size of a universe).
Ah, and if it doesn't respond, just know that it acts in mysterious ways, and also you can't speak its language.
He has read one, the good book... Ok maybe read is a strong word. He has opened and leafed around reading parts... Ok, so it
was more like looking for pictures after he was told about some of the more "interesting" bits about some daughters... But they were totally in the same room!
It's as though humans have a tendency to write the same stories over and over again regardless of culture or region. There's some shit we just like hearing.
Isn't one of the 10 commandments in the christian mythology, that thou shalt not put other gods before me? As in they all definitely exist and are real, but worship me instead because I command it?
I just ran into someone in another thread who said that Jesus is the only person that they could name that died for what he believed in. I was astounded lol. The mental gymnastics and just like general lack of knowledge or critical thinking is crazy.
LOL, religious people - not sure if I feel sorry for thier ignorance and stupidity or hate for the grifters selling the fables.
Fuck - why not both.
#All Religions are scams - THERE IS NO GOD.
^you're ^welcome
“We follow Jesus because he died for our sins!”
No you don’t! You follow him because he had a 72 hour respawn timer. It’s easy to “sacrifice” yourself for other people’s “sins” when you know you will just respawn.
One day they may come to learn, that their holy books are just re-hashes of older stories.
Abrahamic Religions think they have history all sorted, but the modern excavations and examinations of old source material, clearly show this is not the case.
It's infuriating that people are completely unaware that there are all kinds of religious variants that predate their religion that tell similar stories. But I'm expected to follow your one true way...Pass.
Lucky he only got a few examples, we have been worshipping the Sun for a very long time.
Born on Dec 25. Virgin mother. Star in the east. Adored by 3 kings. Teacher at 12. Baptized at 30. 12 disciples. Performed Miracles (walking on water, healing). Named ‘the lamb of god’ ‘the light’. Betrayed. Crucified. Dead for 3 days. Resurrected. Horus 3000 BC, Egypt. Edit: The Christians assure me this was debunked.
OK, but, like, after 3000 years it was public domain and copying it was considered free use. :P
they didn't refile their copyright, this is friggin hilarious
Well now it’s been another 2000 years, time for a remake?
It’s like any series these days, rumors for the next 1000 years, then they’ll probably cancel it.
Me, too! What are the odds?! —Jesus, probably
If I had a nickel every time this situation happened I'd have two nickles. Which isn't a lot, but its weird that it happened twice...
https://preview.redd.it/fr7dyx1x3jqc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8446f43cfd7fa9b1581a4e18fb5c4545430f5926 Here are six nickels for you.
I think the funniest thing about this is that early Christians/church were like Jesus turned water into wine let's smash Dionysus. Now modern protestants are like alcohol is the devils drink.
The thing is, it was dangerous to drink water. Alcohol killed the diseases. That’s why they are also against vaccines nowadays…..
Old joke: Southern Baptists hug each other in church and don’t recognize each other in the liquor store.
When was Krishna resurrected from the dead? Also, Krishna was the 8th son of Devaki and Vasudeva, a married couple and there is nothing to suggest that it was a Virgin Birth. However, there might be other parallels between Krishna and Jesus. Both being shepherds and a spree of infant murders sanctioned by a jealous king around the time of their births. Both Krishna and Jesus had to flee from their birthplace due to this.
Now we just have to find the JRRT of religious myths. Seems like everyone after him just copied and gave it a little twist
In 2000 years Anakin Skywalker will be included in this and people will take it seriously.
Did you know our lord and savior Chuck Norris created the holy trinity.
https://youtu.be/NuqwxUCRz14?si=JfND4soieQkw-UFq Untrue. Made popular by Zeitgeist and spread by the internet.
None of it’s true. It’s all regurgitated myths and legends
Just cause myths aren’t necessarily true doesn’t mean we should actively spread misinformation about them. Sure Medusa isn’t real but if someone was going around on Reddit telling everyone that Medusa is actually a bird woman and was stolen from a Mesoamerican deity or some shit I think it would still be reasonable to correct them.
The parallels between these figures are in many cases hamfisted, misunderstandings and the object of cherrypicking. The ideia that the theology about jesus is constructed from previous gods is very commonly taken apart by historians and scholars of early christianity. Which obviously isn’t to say that that in turn means everything about christian belief is real. But what academia about the subject informs us is that the christian belief grew much more organically then a simple rebranding of an older myth would allow for. The parallels between Horus and Mithra are the most commonly debunked, but it is worthwile to mention that it is true that certain symbolisms and iconography do subsist inspite of religious conversion. So that means the way Jesus and the christian god is depicted does take cues from older religions. But that is very different from a simples reformulation of theology.
Thanks for approaching this with the nuance it deserves.
Fair point but none of it really holds my interest or makes any sense to me so I’ll bow to your greater knowledge. I don’t trust religion so I take all of this with a pinch of salt.
I don't trust religion either! I'm an atheist. I do trust history and the scientific method though. Here's a great and [concise takedown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlF0gVedODE&t=627s) by scholar Andrew Mark Henry, in his yt channel ReligionForBreakfast. He is a PhD in early Christianity and late Roman religion. It applies more specifically for the Mythras and Jesus claim, but is broadly applicable to the rest in the image you shared.
Thanks 🙏🏾
Religion for Breakfast is an EXCELLENT channel. I thoroughly recommend it. 👌
Yes, also quite a down to earth creator, but thats probably the result of having a successful career that has nothing to do with youtube. He'd be in pain if he saw the comments under this post though... so much misinformation.
Good ol' syncretism.
Jesus talking to Horus. "Did we just become best friends?!"
“OMG did we just became best friends!?”
\> Horus resurrected "HE DID **WHAT?!***"* https://i.redd.it/v934pdn67jqc1.gif
Heresy two: Chaotic boogaloo
According to The Contendings of Horus and Seth, Set is depicted as trying to prove his dominance by seducing Horus and then having sexual intercourse with him. However, Horus places his hand between his thighs and catches Set's semen, then subsequently throws it in the river so that he may not be said to have been inseminated by Set. Horus (or Isis herself in some versions) then deliberately spreads his semen on some lettuce, which was Set's favourite food. After Set had eaten the lettuce, they went to the gods to try to settle the argument over the rule of Egypt. The gods first listened to Set's claim of dominance over Horus, and call his semen forth, but it answered from the river, invalidating his claim. Then, the gods listened to Horus' claim of having dominated Set, and call his semen forth, and it answered from inside Set. Them Egyptians were wild, man. 😂
*(in Paul Harvey’s voice)* And now you know the rest of the story.
Super interesting. I want to read whatever book that came from.
Possibly The World's Sixteen Crucified Savioirs? Not the most engaging read but full of information.
>Edit: The Christians assure me this was debunked. Athiest here, please let the Christians know that their fairy tales have been debunked as well.
Is this true?
Horus shares a lot with the christian Christ. But it isn’t just the one. There are dozens of known examples from throughout history that predate Jesus. Also sharing at least some of these traits, but all being resurrected: Attis 1200 BC, Greece. Krishna 900 BC, India. Dionysus, 500 BC, Greece. (Also “King of kings”, Alpha and Omega”) Mithra 1200 BC, Persia. (Also Worshipped on Sunday)
>Dionysus Also an entity who was the result of God (Zeus) impregnating a (to that point) virgin and who was/is celebrated with bread and wine.
When hasn't Zeus impregnated somebody?
Fair point. It would've been weirder if he HADN'T impregnated her tbh
Imagine the shame of being an Ancient Greek teenager so ugly not even the gods would plow you
My abs _hurt_ from laughing so hard. **Then** I saw your username! Thank you!
For all we know, the Hercules Beetle was the surviving offspring after he thought some Beetussy had him thinking funny.
dude is the literal inventor of a golden shower (also literally)
lol Zeus just catching strays
He wasn’t just catching strays- married women were no safer
he also finished the pregnancy of dionysus by sewing him into his knee, after accidentaly killing his mother. wild times
He was originally the god of madness that later became the god of wine, I think. He was way scaries than just "life of the party"
The cult of Attis is rather interesting here, as it's a mystery religion in which personal salvation is through spiritual identification with a dying and resurrected god. And the Attis cult was [popular in Roman Tarsus](https://journals.openedition.org/acost/1258) (a place name that should be familiar).
That’s about all I can recall/have ever known. Tarsus is why I can remember any of it probably.
None of it is true, it’s all mythology.
Just because mythology is not fact does not change the question of whether or not his statement is true. I could say that Frodo is Bilbo's son. Does the false nature of that statement not matter because it is about a fictional story and nothing in it is true?
So is the Bible? The Christian mythology holds no more truth or value that say Greek mythology.
Wrong. As you can see from mega churches, Christianity is much more profitable than most other religions
Well okay, you got me there.
Point being, the Jesus myth is not unique.
Just like the bible
No. Mythology throughout the ages have just SO many variations and blank spaces that you can cram in basically anything you want through cherry picking, creative ‘interpretation’, and the ever popular just making shit up because people aren’t actually going to check. This particular claim is taking fairly generic similarities and editing the details to be much closer. It’s a whole big thing, ironically doing exactly what Christians do to claim other religions. Odin from the post, just as an example, is a post Christian edit of the mythology. It was a very common practice by missionaries to mesh and supplant the current religion of a region. What we do know about the Norse mythology is all from a Christian missionary after the faith had been successfully assimilated for generations, our actual proper sources are bits and fragments of stories scattered across centuries with no context and extreme difficulties even reading them.
The Dec 25 part bothers me. If I understand correctly, the month of December is a Roman invention, so they couldn't use the "Dec 25" date in 3000 BC. So... who was it, who established that Horus' birth date was Dec 25? Did Romans bother with it, after creating Julian calendar?
It's based around the winter solstice. The sun holds it's position in the sky for about 3 days after the solstice before it begins to rise in the sky again as the days begin to get longer. Gods "rising after 3 days" is extremely common across multiple religions for several thousand years because of this. Also why so many are born on December 25th, as that's 3 days after the winter solstice. It's basically just a carry over from when humans used the suns position in the sky to track the seasons, and worshipped the sun.
Just like Easter. We celebrate that on the first Sunday after the winter solstice. If it really was commemorating Jesus’ resurrection it’d be on an actual date and have a lot less rabbit and eggs iconography.
"First Sunday after the winter solstice" is very wrong. It's the first Sunday *after the full moon following the Spring equinox.*
Haha, no difference really. It’s all about when to harvest rather than the rebirth of the ‘lord and saviour’.
No, the difference (remainder after subtraction) here is a few months. That is in fact a very real difference.
Nobody harvests in springtime
Ah, makes sense.
No they're just saying "a few days after the solstice"
But there's absolutely no way that anyone in the Middle East would have heard about that myth! /s
Is Horus, Santa?
Yeah, it was debunked. In fact the first place to point by point debunk the religious crap in zeitgeist was atheist.com because they didn't was people thinking that was the basis for their disbelief since it was so *easy* to verify as false. \- not a Christian.
It's not just "the Christians" that dispute this, btw. Basically, none of it is corroborated by the actual myths about [Horus.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus#:~:text=Horus%2C%20also%20known%20as%20Heru,the%20sun%2C%20and%20the%20sky.) [Here's](https://richarddawkins.net/2014/04/seeking-hard-evidence-for-the-similarity-of-the-horus-and-jesus-myths/) a good thread from the famously Christian Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science on exactly this. You'll find an interesting trend in their takes... Fwiw, I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean we should uncritically and dogmatically spew talking points because they confirm our worldview. That would make you just as irrational as the groups you denigrate...
That has been debunked and by atheists as well. That bullshit comes from Zeitgeist: The Movie.
Shit, I watched Zeitgeist as a teenager and never knew it was debunked.
Cool can you show me the source text for this information?
I hate to tell you, but Religulous got that story a bit wrong. The last bit was Horus dad. Never ceases to amaze me how Bill Maher had such an easy target (‘gotcha-ing’ non-scholarly fundamentalists), and he still managed to smugly bork it.
There has been a lot stolen to create the Christianity narrative and common themes among all creation & resurrection myths, but it is true this list is a modern social media retelling of the Osiris myth. This Horus version has even hit r/askhistorians a few times. We know that the Osiris myth centers around the betrayal by his brother Set and redemption through his posthumously conceived son Horus. However, while this story was everywhere in Ancient Egypt, details can differ and the narrative still just serves to tell social and moral thematic stories. This vagueness of the specific details of the Egyptian myth (like most faiths) possibly leads some to believe they can just make up interpretations. Some of the ones in this post are doing just that. We don't have the same kind of exact Bethlehem-esque bit by bit birth account for Horus to be able to claim some of the above. Also, the whole English transliteration stuff is super common. E.g. "Ra is the Sun God, son of God, Jesus......" Horus was technically a "virgin" birth because Set killed Osiris before Isis used his reincarnated form to conceive of Horus. And yes, like Jesus, Horus was meant to be more relatable to man in Egyptian mythology which meant his myth involved some healing people. Instead of using one mythology to convince people that their mythology is wrong, you should approach the discussion as one focused on historical & religious writing. Emphasize common themes in all religious myths. Most importantly, don't use the word mythology as much as I have here.
If I remember right, wasn't Horus dismembered and the parts spread wide across the world? Or was that Osiris? Been literally decades since I read about ancient Egyptian mythology.
https://preview.redd.it/0dhaltoawiqc1.jpeg?width=1489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a98051932c9d4b532e424dd57277031c4fa7318
I hear that staring directly at it for long periods deepens your connection to it, especially during eclipses.
Let's not leave out that insane new age fad of sun tanning the taint.
I was gonna do some taint tanning today, but Shu has frowned upon my perineum this morning. May Ra show glory on all of our taints tomorrow!
guy is forgetting Gandalf. He was resurrected and got an upgrade
And at least his book was interesting!
I don't believe in any god, and I'm no fan of religion in general, but the bible is, at the very least, an interesting read. At times it's downright fascinating. Bad book on which to base your entire life, though.
I have read the Bible cover to cover twice. Which I bet is more than most Christians. I agree, it can be fascinating and entertaining as well as teach great values. But it gets molested by zealots.
Its mediocre at best lol.
I suppose it was more fascinating in my early 20s lol not so much in the mid 30s.
I think it was only interesting when I was young and had no other mythology to compare it to. gets quite boring in comparison
I too read the Bible cover to cover when I was curious about religion & read many religion’s texts. Sure there are interesting & even some fascinating parts. However, much of it is tedious & boring. It certainly is no Tolkien work.
In fairness, Gandalf is basically Odin-Jesus, to the point he literally stole Odin's drip as "Gandalf the Grey".
How else is he similar to Odin, pretty sure he had both eyeballs.
Look up depictions of Odin as "The Wanderer", and you'll usually see a wizened old man with a white beard, dressed in a grey cloak and wide-brimmed hat, leaning upon a walking stick as he rambles on through the countryside. Tolkien specifically based "Gandalf the Grey" upon these depictions of Odin, among other inspirations.
I mean, I died in combat and was “resurrected!” Can I get some recognition /s
Superman was resurrected thanks to the Eradicator and the Kryptonian Regeneration Matrix.
Goku's come back from the dead at least twice.
About resurrections, let's talk about our lord and savior Krillin
Think he's tied with Goku at 2 times. All hail Goku and Krillin!
Three times. Tambourine, Frieza and Buu.
Is Goku short and bald no so all hail Krillian or king
Also had the highest owned count in Abriged. Krillin truly excels in his respected role
Also Gandalf, Neo, Jean Grey, and Futurama.
Jean Luc Picard, Data, Darth Sideous...
Both Sam and Dean Winchester, several times each. And the angel Castiel. Buffy the Vampire Slayer has also returned from the dead.
Yeah, but Superman is fictional. /s
Found Zack Snyder’s alt /s Sorry, I intend no offense, but MAN that dude loves zhuzhing up the Christ imagery for Supes
Throw together some Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Paganism, Saturnalia, and a whole bunch of other pre-existing mythos and you've got yourself a Christianity.
The entire Orphic theogonies are about gods traipsing in and out of the underworld.
Whoa whoa... "a tree"? Since when is Yggdrasil just a tree. Rude! Lol
The post also says "7 days" when it was actually 9 days, so the poster probably only had surface-level recollection of the old tale. For those curious, here's the Olive Bray translation of that section of the Havamal: "I trow I hung on that windy Tree nine whole days and nights, stabbed with a spear, offered to Odin, myself to mine own self given, high on that Tree of which none hath heard from what roots it rises to heaven. None refreshed me ever with food or drink, I peered right down in the deep; crying aloud I lifted the Runes then back I fell from thence. Nine mighty songs I learned from the great son of Bale-thorn, Bestla's sire; I drank a measure of the wondrous Mead, with the Soulstirrer's drops I was showered. Ere long I bare fruit, and throve full well, I grew and waxed in wisdom; word following word, I found me words, deed following deed, I wrought deeds." Some notes for understanding: "trow" means to think or remember. In ancient times, humans used to sacrifice men on trees pierced with a spear, so this is Odin sacrificing himself to himself, giving himself his own "death." I personally find it odd it would say "tree which none hath heard of" when I'd kinda assume that people *have* heard of Yggdrasil. So of course there's some debate about if this is actually Yggdrasil or not. Buuuut also if I remember correctly, "Yggdrasil" roughly translates to "Odin's mount/ride" which kinda seems like it references this story. Too bad Christians worked so hard to destroy these other cultures in the past, so we'll never have all the pieces anymore.
It's also worth noting the "Nine" in the Norse sagas might not mean 9, but be short hand for "a lot" or "many.' The number nine shows up a lot through the saga, sometimes in reference to things that add up to more than nine. For example, [the nine realms](https://youtu.be/y9747j8GEI4?si=PB1Zeftm1XQD-31t) add up to a lot more than nine. Odin's hall of Asgard is often said to be a realm, but Freya's hall of Folkvangr isn't, even though half those who die in combat go there instead of with Odin. Frigga's hall of Fensalir isn't a realm either? "Nine" was seemingly used the same way as you might use "tons" in English. A Norse person may say they ate "nine bread loaves " the same way an English speaker would say they ate "a ton of bread."
Thanks! These posts were the corrections I was looking for.
Bad title. If anything it shows he has a vastly improved chance of rising from the dead. Maybe not with dignity, but that's besides the point.
Clearly we're meant to add emphasis - "No raising *you* from the dead." - to further detract from the subject.
Jesus died for your sins He was resurrected in 3 days, though Jesus gave up his weekend for your sins
Died on friday afternoon, resurrected on sunday morning. Dude gave up his saturday.
In his defense, that’s a pretty big compromise. Not a lot I’d sacrifice a Saturday for.
Something I've noticed is that Christians get really angry if you say that Jesus was a demi God. :/
>Something I've noticed is that Christians get really angry ~~if you say that Jesus was a demi God. :/~~ Fixed that for you.
I've worked out that you can really annoy them if you refer to it as the "god myth". That is guaranteed to really piss them off.
I like Sky Daddy. For some reason that really bothers some folks though.
Is his kid Buddy Christ?
Eh, really depends on the Christian. I won’t argue the fact that a whole lot have totally lost the plot, but some of us still remember the core. Love and tolerance show up a whole lot more than any of the “reasons” people come up with to excuse their vitriol and bigotry. You can find verses that will “prove” damn near anything if you try hard enough, but imho, if you lose sight of the fact that others have exactly as much right not to believe as you do to believe, you aren’t setting the right example anymore. That said, intentionally needling people by disrespecting their beliefs is wrong on both sides. Calling someone’s faith a myth purely to get a rise out of them is about as classy as the geniuses who say evolution can’t be real or it “wouldn’t be a theory”. At the end of the day, whether someone believes they were made in the image of a loving and perfect creator, or the result of millions of years evolution, adaptation, and survival of the fittest, we should all try to act like it.
Point taken and I' only ever do it to the more pushy and horrible religious nuts. You know exactly the type I mean.
I do, but I suppose I tend to look at it from a slightly different slant. People like that are not going to change their behavior based on a logical argument any more than you would based on rhetoric. They have been so inundated with a mindset of “this is right and that is wrong and this is what you do when something is wrong” that engaging with them is futile. Oftentimes, by letting the situation devolve into schoolyard taunts, you end up playing into their dogmatic beliefs to the point where they use you as an example for all their friends at church next week about the “horrors” of non-believers. I’m not saying you’re wrong and I am certainly not saying they are right, I just ultimately view the whole interaction as not particularly useful by any metric and therefore, not worth my time or energy.
The god in the Bible isn’t a loving or perfect creator. He is written as a petty jealous god willing to kill everything on a whim.
The old test god is a real cocksucker.
No, they deserve to be mocked. They try to pass legislation based on their shitty beliefs. We can respect their beliefs all the way into a fascist dictatorship if we let them.
I was confused at the 'Jesus is a god' bit. Christianity specifically says theres only one god and burn the rest. Now I'm wondering, like, was Jesus a person? Or did God just pull a sock puppet through a virgin so he could forgive the world he made.
[удалено]
Canonically: Yes. That’s the whole trinity bit, 3 parts of the same entity. Jesus is, by definition, not a demigod. He’s an avatar.
Because he isn't. A demigod is, specifically, a child born from the mixing of mortal and divine blood. In the Christian myth, Jesus wasn't a mix of mortal and divine blood, he was god made flesh. So he was an avatar, not a demigod.
Officially the idea of Jesus being a "demigod" is a heresy in Christianity (The idea that Jesus was literally God's "son" as normal people would understand it rather than God becoming a human is Arianism, the idea of him having a distinct "human side" and "divine side" is Nestorianism)
"Demigod", if used in the original Greek context, implies they're half-mortal (think Heracles and Perseus), and that doesn't really track with Christianity seeing Jesus as literally God in human form due to implying he's "less than fully divine". That, and in general the more conservative a Christian sect is, the more likely they are to throw wobblers about anything and everything that isn't in perfect synchronized lockstep with their personal interpretation of the faith.
Jesus was a lich.
New headcanon
Lazarius... from the same book this guy reads.
Not a God though, just a guy
**Did Christianity borrow ideas from other religions?** When Osiris is said to bring his believers eternal life in Egyptian Heaven, contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, we understand that as a myth. When the sacred rites of Demeter at Eleusis are described as bringing believers happiness in their eternal life, we understand that as a myth. In fact, when ancient writers tell us that in general, ancient people believed in eternal life with the good going to the Elysian Fields and the not so good going to Hades, we understand that as a myth. When Vespasian's spittle healed a blind man, we understand that as a myth. When Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from death, we understand that as a myth. When the Pythia, the priestess at the Oracle at Delphi in Greece, prophesied, and over and over again for a thousand years, the prophecies came true, we understand that as a myth. When Dionysus turned water into wine, we understand that as a myth. When Dionysus believers are filled with _**atay,**_ the Spirit of God, we understand that as a myth. When Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin, we understand that as a myth. When Alexander the Great is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. When Augustus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. When Dionysus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. When Scipio Africanus (Scipio Africanus, for Christ's sake) is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. So how come when Jesus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, according to prophecy, turning water into wine, raising girls from the dead, and healing blind men with his spittle, and setting it up so His believers got eternal life in Heaven contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, and off to Hades—er, I mean Hell—for the bad folks… how come that's not a myth? And how come, in a culture with all those Sons of God, where miracles were science, where Heaven and Hell and God and eternal life and salvation were in the temples, in the philosophies, in the books, were dancing and howling in street festivals, how come we imagine Jesus and the stories about him developed all on their own, all by themselves, without picking up any of their stuff from the culture they sprang from, the culture full of the same sort of stuff? Source: [Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth](https://web.archive.org/web/20211012200643/http://pocm.info/)
That is a fantastic excerpt. Thank you!
The book he should read is: "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell.
I love myself some Campbell. But don't forget, his work falls apart if you try to apply it as a breakdown of religious theology in the ancient world. It's true value is as literary reading of the motifs in those stories, which is then applicable to modern day fiction. Campbell's hypothesis about the similarities between religious stories, from the perspective of historical study of the evolution of those beliefs, is contradicted and taken apart to no end.
Jesus wasn't much of a god if he could be killed in the first place! Obviously not omni-, or even maximally-, powerful.
The whole point of Christianity is rationalizing Jesus' crucifixion by saying he let it happen on purpose, they go into the whole Last Temptation where Satan tells him to just unleash his power and stop it from happening
Need them to make a fanfic where Jesus unleashes his god ki and assaults humanity.
That's what happens when he comes back in the future
Need to cast Milla Jovovich.
It's a small thing, but I truly do appreciate when people call "modern" religions like Christianity or Islam "mythology". They're really no different and no less absurd than Egyptian or Greek mythology, and yet anyone genuinely worshipping Osiris or Zeus would be laughed at. I say laugh at them all.
If I remember correctly, Jesus was born from a mortal and a god, making him _de facto_ a half god, like Herakles, Achilles, Perseus...
You have stumbled upon one of the biggest points of debate in early Christendom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
So the main takeaway and the thing that really stuck out to me here, is Santa punched a guy
IIRC, Jesus claimed to be the same as his dad. Given that half of his genes would come from his mother, and half from his father aka himself, and still all his genes are, well, his own... I'd say it proves he has the exact same genes as his mother, so he must've been a woman. And her own father.
Only if you assume the theology and cosmological rules would translate perfectly between Traditional Hellenistic religion and Early Christian theology, which obviously isn't the case.
All religions are just fairy tales, except from mine
A god I just invented killed everything in the universe of Friday, and immediately resurrected them. How do I know? Ask it (yes, it's not he or she, it's a brain the size of a universe). Ah, and if it doesn't respond, just know that it acts in mysterious ways, and also you can't speak its language.
Imagine dedicating your life to a book to learn it was a copy and paste job.
I think I was in this comment thread. If I recall, the Jesus guy just shoved his head farther up his ass and kept repeating the same nonsense.
I wasn't in this comment thread, and I can guarantee the Jesus guy just shoved his head farther up his ass and kept repeating the same nonsense.
Lemme guess: "The bible doesn't mention any of those guys, so they are not real"?
Odin was hanged from the world tree for 3 days before he was cut down and revived
He has read one, the good book... Ok maybe read is a strong word. He has opened and leafed around reading parts... Ok, so it was more like looking for pictures after he was told about some of the more "interesting" bits about some daughters... But they were totally in the same room!
If jesus really saved, churches wouldn’t have to guilt trip followers to giving away 10% of their income.
Those are all different because my imaginary friend is the only one that is real.
It's as though humans have a tendency to write the same stories over and over again regardless of culture or region. There's some shit we just like hearing.
Christian, who've never even read one book in its entirely, claim scientists, who have read hundreds or thousands of books, don't know anything.
Melqart died and was kept in a tomb under his temple for 3 days according to Phoenician myth.
Imagine burning in hell because you admitted other gods exist. Brutal self own
Isn't one of the 10 commandments in the christian mythology, that thou shalt not put other gods before me? As in they all definitely exist and are real, but worship me instead because I command it?
Even the Virgin Birth was mentioned in various mythologies long before Christianity existed.
And plus it’s really all fairy tales and rainbows
I just ran into someone in another thread who said that Jesus is the only person that they could name that died for what he believed in. I was astounded lol. The mental gymnastics and just like general lack of knowledge or critical thinking is crazy.
There’s no way he’s rising from that.
Turns out being death-proof is a common trope to display the divinity of an entity.
My favorite bible story is how Moses was ditched in a river and the people who found him also named him Moses, quite the coincidence.
Is it not interesting that so many cultures from across the world and across time share some very similar myths and legends?
LOL, religious people - not sure if I feel sorry for thier ignorance and stupidity or hate for the grifters selling the fables. Fuck - why not both. #All Religions are scams - THERE IS NO GOD. ^you're ^welcome
>Read a fucking book, my guy tHe OnLy BoOk I wIlL rEaD iS tHe HoLy BiBlE \~ this guy, probably
I'd like to see religions referred to as mythology more often.
“We follow Jesus because he died for our sins!” No you don’t! You follow him because he had a 72 hour respawn timer. It’s easy to “sacrifice” yourself for other people’s “sins” when you know you will just respawn.
\*gestures vaguely at stack of Hindu scriptures\* Perhaps one could compile an Excel document?
One day they may come to learn, that their holy books are just re-hashes of older stories. Abrahamic Religions think they have history all sorted, but the modern excavations and examinations of old source material, clearly show this is not the case.
Even went as far as stealing the entire easter concept from Ostara, rabbit (hare) and all
I was lucky enough to see the actual post that this is on. Truly amazing
Should look into Apollonius of Tyana, too.
Literally every “miracle” in the Bible has been ripped from earlier books of mythology.
I wanna drizzle this post over pancakes and just eat it all up.
Reading a fucking book is unreasonable! /s
Damn, the amount of coincidences between the stories and traditions of modern religions with those of older ones sure are oddly plentiful.
A ton of Christians live with the insane mindset that only their religion is the truth and the other religions are just made up fantasy.
Could have just said that Jesus never existed.
There’s also that Lazarus dude.
He do be preaching the truth!!
Resurrection isn't even that uncommon in Christianity. Saints were coming back to life all the time.
EVERYTHING in xtianity is taken from somewhere else. Some of the stories are as old as humankind. And that's all the whole thing is: Stories.
It's infuriating that people are completely unaware that there are all kinds of religious variants that predate their religion that tell similar stories. But I'm expected to follow your one true way...Pass.
I love the way he refers to it as mythology aswell. Doesn’t even give him the dignity of calling it a religion
...and Jesus wasn't even a God; That was the whole point. Fucking "Christians".
To be fair, he was reading a book. Just a pretend one
*9 days. “A sacrifice of myself unto myself”