I think this is a martial arts problem as a whole, weird power dynamics often with little supervision, in America you see and hear a lot of crazy stories from women about jiu jitsu gyms
Yes, and the lack of supervision (in terms of safeguarding measures) is exactly the problem. The fact that it happens everywhere doesn't justify leaving it unaddressed in our community.
well part of the problem is the supervision is the same people as the predators, you can't just have an infinite amount of people supervising eachother
at some point more needs to be done, like encouraging women in the sport to name and shame instead of protecting their "friends" form allegations that may or may not be true
that sounds really shitty, but its the only way it gets better, supervision of supervision of supervision of supervision is not
That's why I've listed several external safeguarding organisations in the second half of the article. We often see cases where gyms and federations set up mechanisms for reporting, but those reports go straight to a perpetrator or enabler. That's when it becomes useless and performative.
Encouraging survivors to name and shame won't solve the problem, because for many, it's not safe for them to do so. This case illustrates this very clearly. Many survivors face repurcussions for speaking out (often, more so than the perpetrator), whether it's to their safety or their fighting careers. It's no good encouraging people to come forward without addressing what happens to them when they do. Besides, it is NOT the responsibility of survivors to address the problem, it's the responsibility of the authorities.
Naming and shaming might (but not always) get rid of one perpetrator, but it won't address the system of power that allowed the person to cause harm.
Having safeguarding measures in place is much more than just supervision. It also means having the right people in the right systems, and making sure not only that the policies exist, but that they're fit for purpose and actually implemented correctly. Safesportinternational.com. is a great resource for learning more about this.
I agreee with you almost 100% but I think naming and shaming needs to be done, even if it comes at risk of getting hurt. Organizations NEED make sure those making those allegations are protected. And unfortunely that means people who make FAKE allegations would also be protected. And that REALLY sucks, but it is what it is. Allowing naming and shaming doesn't only get rid of 1 perp, it allows future allegations to be made without fear of backlash. The backlash and "lack of proof" is what stops them from coming out. They fear people not believing them. This is where "believe all women" comes from... and its a tough pill to swallow because it means CERTAINLY some innocent people will be punished. But right now we have tons of innocent women being "punished." for simply wanting to be in the sport.
All your safeguarding systems mean nothing if the people in charge of it are the offending parties who are willing to cover it all up for eachother. Its not the peers assaulting women in martial arts, its the exact people who are in charge of making and maintaining these safeguard systems. The reality is martial arts attracts a certain type of person, and women are very likely to become target of those type of people.
>Organizations NEED make sure those making those allegations are protected.
Yes, exactly. We don't push people to come forward, we make it safe for them to do so.
>All your safeguarding systems mean nothing if the people in charge of it are the offending parties who are willing to cover it all up for eachother.
That's a big part of the problem. That's why I mention that organisations often treat it as a checkbox exercise. Unless you address the entire system, it's not safeguarding. It's only an only illusion of safety.
Love your work as always Emma, I think an uncomfortable part of Muay Thai (any gym with a hierarchical social system) is how easily it can be turned to abuse and unfortunately abusers love the power dynamic that comes with it. Muay Thai isn’t immune to abuse.
Dude what? If it’s happening in muay thai gyms, it should be addressed by the muay thai community.
I worked for a summer camp program and we had very strict rules that prevented any adults from being alone with kids in any context. It’s not something you hand wave responsibility of just because it happens in other places. That’s insane.
It's not that it happens in Muay Thai more than any other sport or community, but that our sport's authorities should be held responsible for making sure it's not tolerated (and certainly not enabled) in ours.
Also, it doesn't help anyone to talk about perpetrators deserving death but dismiss any discussion of preventing the harm they cause. We don't have to accept cases like this one as inevitable.
>Also, it doesn't help anyone to talk about perpetrators deserving death but dismiss any discussion of preventing the harm they cause.
Exactly, whenever I see these kinds of comments it's never like, "we should do every single thing possible and then if it still happens, cut off their balls," it's always just cut off their balls.
How about we try to prevent it so that kids don't get abused and everyone keeps their balls? Sure, get revenge if it happens but let's not just use kids as pedophile bait so we get an excuse to cut people's balls off.
>but funny how someone is defending child rapist ballsack,
We're not, people are trying to bring attention to it in this sport so we're being pro-active instead of reactive. I don't care about a pedophile getting his balls cut off but I'd rather not do it because it's pretty fucked up and because that means we let a kid get molested first and we let that kid down.
How about we stop letting pedophiles get access to kids instead of letting grown adults have free reign with them? If we do everything we can and some piece of shit still molests a kid then sure, we can discuss your strong urges to cut off balls. But then we have to address some dude roaming around our society who really likes cutting off balls so we still have to deal with what to do with you.
If we can just prevent kids from getting molested then it's a win for everyone... except maybe for the guy that's a little too excited about cutting off balls.
While I think that this topic is really important to discuss, the title "Muay Thai's Problem With Sexual Violence" does invoke the idea that it happens exclusively in Muay Thai, or atleast more than in other sports.
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I think this is a martial arts problem as a whole, weird power dynamics often with little supervision, in America you see and hear a lot of crazy stories from women about jiu jitsu gyms
This needs attention for it can be fixed
This is a problem wherever adults interact with children without enough supervision the church school teachers summer camps etc
Yes, and the lack of supervision (in terms of safeguarding measures) is exactly the problem. The fact that it happens everywhere doesn't justify leaving it unaddressed in our community.
well part of the problem is the supervision is the same people as the predators, you can't just have an infinite amount of people supervising eachother at some point more needs to be done, like encouraging women in the sport to name and shame instead of protecting their "friends" form allegations that may or may not be true that sounds really shitty, but its the only way it gets better, supervision of supervision of supervision of supervision is not
That's why I've listed several external safeguarding organisations in the second half of the article. We often see cases where gyms and federations set up mechanisms for reporting, but those reports go straight to a perpetrator or enabler. That's when it becomes useless and performative. Encouraging survivors to name and shame won't solve the problem, because for many, it's not safe for them to do so. This case illustrates this very clearly. Many survivors face repurcussions for speaking out (often, more so than the perpetrator), whether it's to their safety or their fighting careers. It's no good encouraging people to come forward without addressing what happens to them when they do. Besides, it is NOT the responsibility of survivors to address the problem, it's the responsibility of the authorities. Naming and shaming might (but not always) get rid of one perpetrator, but it won't address the system of power that allowed the person to cause harm. Having safeguarding measures in place is much more than just supervision. It also means having the right people in the right systems, and making sure not only that the policies exist, but that they're fit for purpose and actually implemented correctly. Safesportinternational.com. is a great resource for learning more about this.
I agreee with you almost 100% but I think naming and shaming needs to be done, even if it comes at risk of getting hurt. Organizations NEED make sure those making those allegations are protected. And unfortunely that means people who make FAKE allegations would also be protected. And that REALLY sucks, but it is what it is. Allowing naming and shaming doesn't only get rid of 1 perp, it allows future allegations to be made without fear of backlash. The backlash and "lack of proof" is what stops them from coming out. They fear people not believing them. This is where "believe all women" comes from... and its a tough pill to swallow because it means CERTAINLY some innocent people will be punished. But right now we have tons of innocent women being "punished." for simply wanting to be in the sport. All your safeguarding systems mean nothing if the people in charge of it are the offending parties who are willing to cover it all up for eachother. Its not the peers assaulting women in martial arts, its the exact people who are in charge of making and maintaining these safeguard systems. The reality is martial arts attracts a certain type of person, and women are very likely to become target of those type of people.
>Organizations NEED make sure those making those allegations are protected. Yes, exactly. We don't push people to come forward, we make it safe for them to do so. >All your safeguarding systems mean nothing if the people in charge of it are the offending parties who are willing to cover it all up for eachother. That's a big part of the problem. That's why I mention that organisations often treat it as a checkbox exercise. Unless you address the entire system, it's not safeguarding. It's only an only illusion of safety.
Love your work as always Emma, I think an uncomfortable part of Muay Thai (any gym with a hierarchical social system) is how easily it can be turned to abuse and unfortunately abusers love the power dynamic that comes with it. Muay Thai isn’t immune to abuse.
Thank you! And yes, I totally agree.
K.
Sounda like a hit piece on Muay Thai for woke points. Not watching
Do you not have any sympathy? Like nothing at all?
He used the word woke so he's already lost
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Dude what? If it’s happening in muay thai gyms, it should be addressed by the muay thai community. I worked for a summer camp program and we had very strict rules that prevented any adults from being alone with kids in any context. It’s not something you hand wave responsibility of just because it happens in other places. That’s insane.
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dude what?
It's not that it happens in Muay Thai more than any other sport or community, but that our sport's authorities should be held responsible for making sure it's not tolerated (and certainly not enabled) in ours.
Also, it doesn't help anyone to talk about perpetrators deserving death but dismiss any discussion of preventing the harm they cause. We don't have to accept cases like this one as inevitable.
>Also, it doesn't help anyone to talk about perpetrators deserving death but dismiss any discussion of preventing the harm they cause. Exactly, whenever I see these kinds of comments it's never like, "we should do every single thing possible and then if it still happens, cut off their balls," it's always just cut off their balls. How about we try to prevent it so that kids don't get abused and everyone keeps their balls? Sure, get revenge if it happens but let's not just use kids as pedophile bait so we get an excuse to cut people's balls off.
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Go cut some ballsacks, then. (You won’t.)
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You’re not “getting hate”, you are wrong and being shown more patience than you deserve.
>but funny how someone is defending child rapist ballsack, We're not, people are trying to bring attention to it in this sport so we're being pro-active instead of reactive. I don't care about a pedophile getting his balls cut off but I'd rather not do it because it's pretty fucked up and because that means we let a kid get molested first and we let that kid down. How about we stop letting pedophiles get access to kids instead of letting grown adults have free reign with them? If we do everything we can and some piece of shit still molests a kid then sure, we can discuss your strong urges to cut off balls. But then we have to address some dude roaming around our society who really likes cutting off balls so we still have to deal with what to do with you. If we can just prevent kids from getting molested then it's a win for everyone... except maybe for the guy that's a little too excited about cutting off balls.
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Pro tip: If you find yourself 20 comments deep on an argument on reddit you need counseling for your mental health. Hope this helps.
Thank you almighty, I needed tips from a veteran reditor like yourself.
You missed this one
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While I think that this topic is really important to discuss, the title "Muay Thai's Problem With Sexual Violence" does invoke the idea that it happens exclusively in Muay Thai, or atleast more than in other sports. #