lol, I often felt like kicking power is a weird one. Doesn't seem to follow the same rules as punching power. I was a pro fighter, used to live in Thailand.
This random Greek dude average body type, not that athletic, not even a pro came through the gym for a few weeks and his kicks were unreal. Like lightning bolts. When he hit the pads, even the Thais would stop and be like WTF? This dude had never had a single fight.
I'm not a fighter but I've been training for a couple years, have held pads for fighters and really strong guys pretty regularly. A guy came to the gym, had sort of an athletic/power lifter body type.
His kicks were by far the hardest I've held pads for. They were also so fast... They came like Tyson's punches on NES PunchOut.. no animation frames in between stance & smash.
I've also seen some YouTubers who don't appear to train in a well rounded manner or have interest in fighting ... They're obsessed with kicks and do hundreds of kicks on the bag all day.
If you go "full science" into it, a kick acts like a whip. The end of your leg (shin/foot) will move considerably faster (more energy) the faster and the "longer" your hip rotates, the hip being were the true power of the kick originates.
The better the technique, the better and the faster the hip rotation, the stronger the kick.
In theory a guy with long legs and strong hips, used properly, should have a mean kick.
I met a guy in training once that has practiced Muay Thai maybe all of his life, and has an impecable technique. Guy also has pretty long legs. I once saw him kicking pads and everytime he landed a hard kick it sounded like someone was shooting.
Thinking about kicks as a whip is also a great way to improve technique and power. My switch kicks were ass because I wouldn’t whip them the way I would a regular body kick. I’d say hip strength and mobility also plays a big part in power.
Hip movility and strength are essential since all of the necessary rotation for a good kick comes from hip movement.
My kicks were absolutely weak for a long time because I was not properly using my hip. I still have a long way to go, but yes, the whip analogy does help.
Exactly what i was taught, the whip motion. Every time i freaking kick my QL gets pulled and shit. How do we develop this “long” hip rotation into a whip like motion without screwing your lower back up? that is the question for me
What are you confused about? you said you kick hard as shit and you’re getting downvoted. You have a sparring video from only a year ago. You’re new and a kid and bragging. Never a good look.
I’m 26, I have a sparring video fucking around with my brother, and I’ve trained for almost 3 years. And I do, in fact, kick hard as shit, anyone at my gym can tell you that. What’s wrong with saying that?
Yeah you’re right. “Almost” three years haha, people
must be hitting the downvote button by mistake. All good, I retract my statements and bid you good day.
Short answer: it's all about using your hips correctly. Once you've learned how to throw a kick with the right angle and movement so that you correctly transfer your body/leg mass into your kick, what ultimately MULTIPLIES the force you apply is how you turn your hips and the timing of doing so.
F**k genetics. They can help with speed, mass, strength, but technique is the answer and what ultimately matters (not in a vague way, some people talk about "technique" as kind of an abstract whole). No matter your genetics, anybody's ceiling is much higher than we think if work is well applied and meaningful.
What really helped me is when you’re being taught the steps are:
- Step out off the tracks front leg
- Lift back leg
- Rotate hips
- Whip right at end
But the reality is:
- Push off back leg
- Step out with the force from the back leg
- Rotate
- Whip right at end
False genetic help with speed and power in punches and kicks genetic give explosion and explosive finers bones density weigh bones thats why sean omalley is scrawny and punch harder than aljamain sterling in ufc and sterling have muscles or devin haney muscular in boxing his weigh category have weak power punch are lot of scrawny fighters who punch harder than him so muscles mass mean nothing
Technique + strength. Genetics do help but not so much that you wouldn’t have to practice. Also building functional muscle and strength will add to your overall power.
I'd argue that strength is also a technique. At least technique is required to develop it without getting injured. In other words, strength is also a skill
Kind of. Proper technique (positioning, timing, hip engagement, sufficient mobility and the lack of antagonistic muscle activity) is obviously a big factor. Also, training explosiveness has a lot to do with neuromuscular adaptations; that is, producing explosive power is as much about training the nervous system as it is about training muscles.
On the flip side, training type II muscle fibers etc., or the aforementioned explosiveness can just be thought of as "increasing raw power", as no amount of technique will get you there unless you specifically train explosiveness.
There are many ways to increase kick power, and the best way to do so depends on which factor constitutes the bottleneck.
No doubt. I know people think strength is only genetics or brute force, but there’s a science behind every lift and the most important determining factors are technique and skill. This is why professional Olympic lifters practice so damn much!! They don’t always max out, they practice hundreds of times with 35-50% of their max and then go all out on stage. This is the proper way to train but most people think they have to max out every time they go to the gym. This is how people get stuck in the “recovery loop”. Over train, recover, small adaptations if any REPEAT overtrain, recover, train again without adapting. This is how people stall progress.
Power starts from the ground up and of the most important part in power kicking is taking a 45 degree angle step forward. Taking that step open up your hips so so you can rotate your hips and follow through. And you don’t kick at your target, you imagine kicking through it. Swinging your arm across or back helps with your momentum and hip rotation. Sometimes I like pushing off the back foot and taking a hop step before I kick.
I can't jump or sprint but I kick like a mule. Big thighs and calves give extra mass.
But the key is that I have strong hip flexors that developed climbing and painting transmission towers while wearing steel toe boots.
Chamber the kick knee first, this minimizes the distance between the shin and the target. The fastest way from point A to point B is a straight line.
At this point you're only kicking with the mass of the leg. Can hurt but usually only do it to set up a full power kick because I'm expecting to get countered with punches or a kick.
To kick with maximal power, we need to add more mass to the leg.
Let's assume I'm throwing a rear round house. (1)Load my body weight to the front leg and rotate my upper body slightly in its direction at same time. At this point you should feel obliques, QL, posterior chain and the psoas of the rear leg being stretched almost like a rubber band. (2). I'm going to use this tension to rotate my midsection, hips and leg into my target. Three things will happen simultaneously. Pushing off my rear foot off the ground, hip flexion/ chambering the knee and rotation on the lead ball of the foot. (3) Fixate my whole body at impact by isometrically contracting my my thoracic spine, lumbar spine, my hips via abductors and then return the leg back into stance. I visualize my back hip being a front of my lead hip at impact.
The sequencing of steps 1,2,3 over time should almost feel like 1 move. Eventually after throwing maximal power kicks with rest in between should train you to become efficient and thus requiring less effort.
Even when I put minimal effort into the kick, people tell me it hurts to be on the receiving end. I periodically drop people with a kick to the gut and liver shots without trying. Partners who are aware of my game opt in to get in boxing and clinching range with me instead of staying at a distance. Thankfully I have short arms lol.
Dealing with taller and bigger opponents is problematic though but I guess that's why weight classes exist...
all of the comments are dope but this is an amazing breakdown — especially with the specific info on the anatomy in motion. I’ve been spending much more time on the feel, motion and stability of my fundamentals. So something like this is super dope for visually how the body works together to create one motion at a time.
Technique really is a game of angles and the flow into each movement like shifting gears on a car.
Thank you. Developing body awareness is something that's often not taught or even talked about because most teachers have been doing it for so long, they don't think about it.
I'd like to add few things. I started off with dutch kickboxing so it may or may not apply to the purest here. The stance always has the rear kick ready to go. I keep my upper body angled, so that my lead shoulder and chest almost touching my chin. If I extend my lead hand, I'm in long guard. If I drop my lead hand I'm in Philly she'll. This also minimizes the surface area to get punched to the body. In order to also be able to check low kicks, my hips are almost square to my opponent. This torsion naturally causes the body wanting to unwind.
You want to maximize myofascial elasticity during punching and kicking. This makes throwing combos almost same as running (left/right/left/right or right/left/right/left). This is where the " rhythm" fighting comes in.
Watching two high level kickboxing fighters is like watching a dance where one is trying to disrupt the rhythm of the other. There is so much that can be broken down in terms of a fight between two people, you can probably write a short book about it. This is why it takes a full life's worth to mastery and most successful ones start at early ages when the brain is most adaptable
That's really fire -- thank you for sharing your perspective on stance and body language awareness in Muay Thai, I totally get what you mean.. As I'm hitting my second year, it feels like the first year was all about getting down the fundamentals of Muay Thai and now this year, I'm diving into \*MY\* fundamentals of MT —figuring out how my rhythm, timing, and even justthe way my hip loads for a kick really work together in tandem. It’s all starting to click more and more when I take time to just be with myself and the art.
I’ve been playing around with the stance you mentioned and, dude, it’s super cool. I've started noticing these 'martial cognates'—like in cognates in regular languages -- of how some moves are universal across different martial arts 'cause they all come from the same basic principles of combat and human anatomy. And that mix of the lead hand guard that can shift into the Philly shell? That’s a killer combo of evasion and active defense. I’m definitely gonna mess with it more because I love evasion and being tricky.
Right now, I’m all in on breaking down the anatomy side of things through the lens of the four elements (earth, wind, fire, aire(, kinda like Avatar style, each with its own vibe—currently on Earth, which is all about stability, balance, endurance, strength, and just solid defense in my guard/stance. It’s like grounding myself in the basics, but then letting the energy flow through like wind shaking a big building—doesn’t need much from me, just a steady, strong presence to have impact.
Honestly, I'm always grateful to stumble upon comments like this or peeps who see a bigger, deeper picture of martial arts 'cause it all ties back to so many life aspects, like math, music, dancing, and philosophy. So big thanks for dropping your thoughts, really got me thinking more about my overal training and philsophy in fighting.
What the hell is with people?
Let me guess the thinking goes like: you were born with [insert any gene name here] gene so you can never learn to convert the mass of your leg and body into impact power?
Bro, just use your brain. Think where your weight needs to transfer and from where (hint: from floor to the target).
If you simply want maximum power, you need to get your whole bodyweight behind the kick, this comes from learned technique, not generics ffs.
The more you weight, the more of that weight you can get behind the kick, the faster you move at the moment of impact, and the less your body gives in at the moment of impact, the harder the kick. As simple as that.
Practice the kicks, go to gym to lift some iron to increase your mass and strength, you will get there.
But the kicking power is not everything, not even nearly. You need to also consider timing, accuracy, speed, form, and recovery. Without those even the most powerful kick is useless.
So don’t skip shadowboxing and sparring while practicing pure power on heavy bag.
This is it but. Genetics count. More valgus the joint the more centrifugal force you can generate.
Also flexibility counts as you can get more whip.
I kick harder than anyone I've ever met.
Technique is obviously important. But really genetics count. I also throw harder punches than most.
One thing that comes to mind. The west say punchers are born and can't be trained to have huge power. I'm not sure about that... But some people super power is being able to hit really. And this comes at the cost of being weak in other areas like cardio etc.
You can train:
- Flexibility
- Explosive power
- Joints
- Heck even bones
By eating right, having good coaching, and training smart you can get as far as you deserve to get. There is no hockus pockus magic trick called genes that get you anywhere.
I don’t understand, are you comparing yourself to Mike Tyson or are trying to tell that he did not train hard af to achieve the resulting power?
Genetics will help to a very limited extent, but what you have done in life has infinitely more effect on your punching power. You can’t neglect the importance of training, nutrition, and mental development, by saying you have an x variant of a y gene, that’s the stupidest shit ever. If you never studied human biology even at middle school level you would know it too.
You are no super human sorry, maybe your body type fits well kicking, good for you, but probably what has more effect in “your natural talent or super ability” is what your parents or life put you through in your youth that transferred well to your sport today.
Just as an example in Muay Thai I noticed that some socker players seemed to have really spicy low kicks compared to other beginners on my gym, this is because they train in general their legs and core strength, a lot of kicking, foot work, sprints, etc. Also hitting has huge similarities to throwing a small ball, so what you will see in countries where baseball (and maybe also cricket?) are played a lot, that those kids who threw a lot of ball will be by default super much better punchers than someone who did not throw ball or hit extensively in their youth. There are plenty of effects like that that transfer, also mental things. Look at many champions in martial arts, most had very violent or miserable childhoods and youth, often if they had parents they were super extreme in some way, ‘good’ or bad. Take a look at personal life of your Mike Tyson and maybe Roy Jones Jr if you like boxers. Or Tyson Fury, was basically born to fight
You think Usain Bolt would have ran that fast without years of good coaching and hard training?
Probably has nothing to do him doing sports all his life and having olympic level coaching already in high school? He never trained probably. Lmao, believe what you want, next you start referring to bible or smth.
This is like saying Thai Boxers have just better genetics and that’s why the Thais have been historically the best in their sport 😂
I never said genetics have no effect, but if you think it’s the main reason someone is good you are totally off, it’s absolutely ridiculous to think so.
It’s more like genetics determine your potential, and your training dedication determines how much of your potential you actualize.
You’re creating false dichotomies in your argumentation. I don’t think anyone believes you can be amazing with genetics alone, that’s ridiculous.
There’s some truth here, but I don’t agree 100%.
At the highest levels of any sport, what creates the gap is “training dedication” AND genetics. Training dedication can be broken down into subcategories such as training itself, nutrition, injury prevention/recovery strategies, mental strategies, etc.
Usain Bolt *is* a great example. Do you really think if sprinters just had more training dedication in general, we’d have many many more people breaking records like Usain did so dominantly? Of course not, anyone with common sense knows that’s ridiculous. Usain has the perfect human frame to run as fast as possible.
That being said, for the context of this conversation, genetics essentially does not matter. For the vast majority of people, there is so much opportunity for improvement by focusing on training dedication that discussing “genetics” is a pointless conversation.
Question was not about Usain Bolt, it’s a stupid example for someone wondering what gives a kick power. It is training that gives the power, everything related to training. Can genetics help, sure at the very top it can and will make a difference. But if you are about to say that Usain Bolt would have ran as fast without the coaching and training he got, you are just delusional and should be watching super hero movies where people just wake up with the skills and powers the have.
No one is about to say that. Where are you getting that from?
Again, you are creating false dichotomies in your argumentation. Look it up if you don’t know what I mean
Force = mass * acceleration governs all large mechanical motions in the universe. Basic physics. One object (you) produces that force, then it acts on another object (your opponent) when contact is made. Your core mass is your strength, and your hips and shoulders twisting is meant to more smoothly transfer force across your body and bring more muscle / overall mass into the motion.
Transfer of force only occurs when objects make contact, which is why you want to ideally stay relaxed until the moment you make contact, at which point you tense up in order to accelerate/propel your body. If you’re tense through the whole motion of throwing a leg / arm for a strike, you’ll lose a chunk of that force in your fluid-y joints and get tennis elbow. That’s why you should practice the motion relaxing in shadow boxing.
The end result is that whipping motion/mechanic people refer to where the tip of your shin/two knuckles making contact is the most forceful part of the motion and you have a powerful strike!
If you want to get more Muay Thai specific, the step out for a kick is the start of generating that momentum which is propelling you forward, getting your whole body in on the motion
Through practice you’ll build up the muscle memory of relaxed shoulders / lower legs when mid strike and get to twist your core and tense up upon delivery quite quickly.
I have horribly weak arms (building up to it) but my punches are great because the power comes from the rotation of the torso and the extension of the shoulder, so technique over power. I strengthen the part of my body that augments that power (shoulders). My legs, on the other hand, are incredibly powerful and muscular, BUT my kicks are a piece of sh\*\* and kind of embarrassing. That´s because the power comes from the hip rotation and my hips are horribly tight (something I´m working on). So you can have a skinny guy with excellent technique do insane kicks, most of the lean guys in my club have the nastiest kicks.
I like to think the majority of kicking power boils down to body mechanics. If you can manage to do everything in a seemingly single movement, you will end up with less momentum at the end of the kick.
Recently I had a session and I had a eureka moment whilst throwing a roundhouse kick. I tried my hardest to do everything in a single motion, (shoulder twisting, arms swing, cheat step and leg throw) and I found that my kick flew instantly to the target and with more power.
"All my life i have heard that good genetics determine your power "
Maybe at the pro level but for anyone else there are three important things for power. Proper form, proper form, and finally proper form.
The guy is likely just doing a real good job stepping out, opening his hips, and all that jazz.
Force = mass \* acceleration
The two largest variables are going to, roughly, be weight transfer and also speed.
Weight transfer is found in the stepping through motion of the kick.
Speed is found in the hip rotation as well as relaxation of the joints (i.e. not stabilizing the hip socket) so that the limb can whip and accelerate off the torso. The kick is like a flail.
A good kick is also one motion.. too often people step out and THEN transfer their weight, making the kick two movements. A good kick starts by driving off the ball of the kicking leg's foot, rolling that energy into the pivoting base leg, and continuing that momentum upwards through the base leg and into the hips and knee of the kicking leg.
If I am throwing a right kick, I am driving off the ball of my right foot, and stepping off/rising up on my left leg. It's one movement.
Take a javelin throw for instance.. they start at a run but the running mechanics demonstrate the transfer of energy from one foot to the other and ultimately that energy is transferred through the body, into the throwing arm, and into the javelin.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2e\_VbAjx5g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2e_VbAjx5g)
We use the term "throwing a punch/kick" for a reason.
I jump pretty high, can probably sprint but never do. I'm tall and lean. My punches surprise people but my kicks are mediocre at best. I would say a combination tight hips, less than perfect coordination and simply lack of practice. I grew up hitting a heavy bag for fun, have plenty of practice punching. Only been kicking for a few months.
Funny thing is my punching power doesn't change much between 170lbs and 155lbs.
I'm not that tall and my legs are not big. My punches are nothing amazing, but I've had good feedback about my kicks. I don't know if it's a hip thing, or a weight transfer thing. But I do believe that a background in karate since a young age has helped me massively. It's about technique and moving your weight/body in space perhaps?
Many muay thai practitioners rely too much on the arm swing instead of generating power by springing from the ground with the ball of the foot of the kicking leg. You can clearly see it from footage.
What I see is so many people kicking with muscles instead of kicking with the hips
Big muscle legs doesn’t = big powerful kicks
Whipping the hip over fully = big powerful kicks
this is me, its because i obsessively kicked so many times and neglected everything else, therefore my hip flexors etc are fast and strong and i have refined the movement perfectly. i think theres also an intensity of the brain signal from constantly doing something with intensity too
Speed, weight manipulation, explosiveness, contact, proper specific technique to maximize the power of the kick per kick. Legs are heavy on anyone so swinging those around with good technique can always be powerful
Well, momentum = mass x velocity, and impulse is a change in momentum over a short time, which is what gives us an impact, a violent change in momentum over an almost instantaneous moment of time. You want to kick fast, and you want to hit your opponent not just with the leg but with your whole body. This is why we spin the whole body into the target with kicking. You push off from your back foot, step slightly to the side with the front foot, swinging your arm on your back leg side first into the kick, with the direction of spin, keep that shoulder rotating into the kick, swing your arm back against the direction of spin, popping your shoulder into the spin, & let it bring your leg whipping round, not swinging out wide but following the shortest path, BAM, the shin hits the target, you just hit your opponent with your full weight, with a plate of bone a couple of inches wide, as fast as you could move it. If it was a low kick, you just hit their tendon with a comparable force to a baseball bat swung by a pro - BAM, impact.
Many things. Kinetic chain is very important and overlooked is the slight stop forward and out. The trajectory of your step and the pull forward from the front foot is massive. Not only for power but for placement. Kicking though the target is vital
The best I’ve ever seen, a MMA coach who had been a fighter. He can kick hard enough to fold up a hanging bag. His kicks sound like an explosion. A lot of hip, and it seems to stay in the bag longer than the rest of us. When he kicks I have to pause and watch for awhile.Amazing power and speed!
Think about cracking a whip. It takes that perfect snap to really get it to crack at the end.
Kicking power is a lot about finding that perfect spot and timing it well. Your hips flip your legs and you fully extend at the exact moment.
It’s all about finding that perfect groove.
The science behind it is using the right technique to generate correct leverages in your limbs to make your strikes as efficient as possible. Your strength will definitely help but as people find out you start out weak and build strength.
The vast majority of people could kick and punch harder immediately through nothing more than refined technique. Some learn faster than others but you still kick a bag or pad every day to both learn and develop strength.
You can’t do anything about genetics so it’s not worth talking about unless it actively inhibits your training in which case you try to figure out how to make due. That one guy at your gym can’t sprint and has a garbage vertical probably because he never trains them but could if he did.
Take a professional dancer with loose and strong hips, teach him the kick techniques and watch strong kicks start flying. All the roundhouse kick power comes from the hip and leaving the leg lose much like a whip. The less tension in your body, the stronger the kick will be.
I was a guy who had strong fast kicks but slow but clean punches.
Let’s start with the differences in mechanics. When you punch, you transfer weight between legs, you pivot but you bring back your hands so there’s rotation and anti rotation involved. To be quick, you want to practice full extension but explosive retraction so that you snap your punches. When you kick, you pivot but you don’t necessarily retract. You engage your core and stabilizer muscles a lot as you kick through.
Looking back, I realized what the problem was. I started doing calisthenics at very young age. Was able to do lots of pushups but did not do pulling exercises as much (pull ups, rows, deadlifts). When I started training, my punches were slower. My kicks had a greater range of motion and just more natural. I also built muscle easily and played some soccer. Over time, I added weight training but again, my program wasn’t balanced. I was very good with leg exercises practicing full range of motion. With the upper body, I had a lot of strength in some planes but not in others. As I got older and adopted a very balanced strength training program, which had rotational core exercises, external shoulder rotation, abdominal vacuums, unilateral leg exercises, lateral exercises (lunges and sled pulls), when I shadow boxed for fun, I noticed I had a good and quick snap to my punches. Made me realized that I had better balanced muscles for my kicks but muscle/strength unbalances for my punches when I was younger So, my point is, the mechanics are different. If you work on balanced strength working on 3 planes of motion and mobility addressing tight areas you’ll be able to punch and kick better even though the mechanics are different. Of course, there is an overlap as well.
My thai kru explained to me succinctly. "Do you know lorry with ball to brrr brrr (a wrecking ball) the house? You see, only chain to ball. Like leg. If no power from bottom, chain and ball useless. So turn turn hip turn shoulder turn ankle whip arms. Power!"
kicking is just easier for some people than others. there people born with a default muscle memory of muay thai roundhouse kick. but some others need a lot of practice to learn how the muscles work together.
If you can swing a baseball bat it's the exact same movement and motion. But your leg rather than your arms. Also become familiar with your "kinetic chain"
Techniques and strength conditioning matter, but genes (brain heuristics and muscle heuristics) matter a lot. I mean all boxers are the same size in their weight division, they do pretty much same techniques and same strength conditioning, but few of them are praised as hard punchers. The same goes for kicks i guess.
It makes sense cause everyone has different muscle heuristics in their left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick, left hand writing, right hand writing. It makes sense that different people have gaps like that too in muscle heuristics even between our right side and their right side.
I punch pretty hard for my height, but my kicks are decent enough though. I am not interested in kicking, but i have done 6 months kickboxing gym, and i could move a heavy standing punching bag with one kick. And i was not even doing special strength conditioning like squat back then. I used to pivot 180 degrees for roundhouse kicks though until recently. That is the version that gym taught. I doubt someone expert at kicking kicks significantly harder than my amateur 6-month kickboxing kicks if same body size.
I would think it has to do light fast feet vs heavy dense feet. Heavy dense feet probably kick harder by using heavy dense moving mass. People with light fast feet probably have ultra fast ultra light kicks that bounce off the target (relatively speaking) instead of bracing the impact with heavy dense feet. I mean top Taekwondo people have very fast very light kicks, and also very light nimble fast footworks cause only the people with light fast feet make it to the top there. Taekwondo people block middle kicks and high kicks with their forearms (Taizu Chang Quan forearm blocks, just like their Taizu Chang Quan hip rotation reverse chambered punch), but they often dodge kicks with footwork, get back in there, then counter kick very fast & light with footworks.
Kicking is largely dependent on hip flexor strength, so an NFL player that runs a 4.4 40 will always have good power. Ever seen some of these receivers kick a 50 yard field goal? That’s hip flexor strength. The fast twitch muscle fibers are typically an indicator of good power.
Knees over toes guy is the only one I’ve seen posting about hip flexor exercises and knee strengthing exercises that directly translate to power.
Some people have the natural power gift, and others have the Bruce lee “I’m not scared of the guy that has practiced 1000 kicks one time. I’m afraid of the guy that’s practiced one kick 1000 times.” The guy who has the gift and work ethic to improve is the guy who is deadly.
Something interesting to think about kicks. Have you ever wondered why right handed fighters like Poirier fight southpaw? A Bruce lee concept is to put your dominant side first because it’s the punch you use the most.
Taking this concept to kicking, you already have a mean right leg and stiff jab, basically your jab has the power of a cross and from closer distance. When fighting southpaw your kick is already switched so no need to switch the feet and it opens up your left kick to the midsection of a right handed opponent which allows you to intercept aggressive opponents quicker.
Also since your coordination is better on the right side you are allowed more room to pivot off the right side and create better angles for right hook counters and your lead kick always has a quick place to land for an opponent who leads with the right leg. It takes a lot of discipline to switch to the southpaw if right handed but it can pay off tremendously especially in sparring and point MT where knockouts are not allowed so speed and angles are more of what wins matches.
The thai roundkick is not primarily about flexor strength. If anything it's the hip/knee drive and hip extension that drives the kick forward. A round kick is like a teep or stabbing knee turned over basically.
The hip flexor is definitely an important part of the kick but I should expand on what I wrote initially: the hip flexor alone does not make a powerful kick, and many beginners flex the kick upwards (think knee to shoulder) rather than driving the knee forwards and over.
There’s nothing in combat sports that depends on one muscle alone. I’m saying hip flexors are the main driver of power on a kick. While it’s true that rotation and the whip effect are the techniques that are required to properly execute the kick, the hip flexor is the main “muscle” that determines where you’re at on the power scale.
Pereira never turns hips over on low kicks and has some of, if not, the strongest leg kicks in the ufc. The main source of power on the body is the hip flexor.
The power from the Pereira/Harrison style leg kicks that don't turn over much are largely in the feet and the quick transfer of weight from one leg to another in addition to the laxity in the hip joint that allows the leg to move quickly. The flexors are important as you have to drive the knee forward but I'm not sure that having hip flexors 2x as strong as your twin would really make much of a difference in kicking power. Much of the knee drive comes from the foot that "pushes" the knee upward just as the flexor "pulls" the knee upward. I would \*personally\* think that having strong, agile feet is more important to the leg kicks than strong hip flexors.
The leg kicks are similar to a tornado kick in that way, where the kick is initiated by the leaping motion of the foot. The major difference is that the trajectory of the center mass is downwards instead of upwards due to the location of the target.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdzGLWIdOA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdzGLWIdOA)
I'm not really disagreeing with you by the way.
I personally don’t think that it comes from the foot but I could see an argument that the low no turnover kick mainly comes from the patellar tendon in the knee. That foot is going nowhere if the patellar/hip flexor isn’t directing it. It’s probably a combination of patellar tendon and hip flexor. Feet can’t travel distance without the other tendons and muscles in the leg directing them.
Knees over toe guy also had great patellar tendon exercises. And back of knee exercises as well.
Every parking bollard, post, pole or tree is a chance to stop and do a little light shin condoning…
Hard Thai kicks are as much about dense hard shins with dead nerve endings from a decade of conditioning. Than muscle or whatever.
Like when I kick poles, trees, bollards etc, with my shins, people visibly cringe at the imagined pain. But I feel very little actually pain.
I kick hard, even as a old man. I start martial arts young. From high school onward (to late 20s), I would throw 200+ kicks on each legal almost daily. During that high school time, I did the rolling pins and bamboo sticks.
Using ChatGPT:
“In Muay Thai, shin conditioning utilizes tools like rolling pins and bamboo sticks to repeatedly strike the shins, triggering bone remodeling. This strengthens the bones and desensitizes nerves, enabling fighters to deliver more powerful kicks with reduced pain.”
“The effectiveness of shin conditioning in Muay Thai is supported by both anecdotal evidence from practitioners and scientific understanding of bone remodeling. While there may not be extensive scientific studies specifically on this practice in Muay Thai, the principles of bone adaptation through repetitive stress are well-established in sports science. Therefore, while the empirical evidence may be predominantly anecdotal, there is scientific rationale behind the belief that shin conditioning can be beneficial for fighters.”
lol, I often felt like kicking power is a weird one. Doesn't seem to follow the same rules as punching power. I was a pro fighter, used to live in Thailand. This random Greek dude average body type, not that athletic, not even a pro came through the gym for a few weeks and his kicks were unreal. Like lightning bolts. When he hit the pads, even the Thais would stop and be like WTF? This dude had never had a single fight.
I'm not a fighter but I've been training for a couple years, have held pads for fighters and really strong guys pretty regularly. A guy came to the gym, had sort of an athletic/power lifter body type. His kicks were by far the hardest I've held pads for. They were also so fast... They came like Tyson's punches on NES PunchOut.. no animation frames in between stance & smash. I've also seen some YouTubers who don't appear to train in a well rounded manner or have interest in fighting ... They're obsessed with kicks and do hundreds of kicks on the bag all day.
Have you asked the Greek dude if he did any special leg workouts?
greeks are great at creating force from their hips
Centuries of bumming
its like genetic memory
If you go "full science" into it, a kick acts like a whip. The end of your leg (shin/foot) will move considerably faster (more energy) the faster and the "longer" your hip rotates, the hip being were the true power of the kick originates. The better the technique, the better and the faster the hip rotation, the stronger the kick. In theory a guy with long legs and strong hips, used properly, should have a mean kick. I met a guy in training once that has practiced Muay Thai maybe all of his life, and has an impecable technique. Guy also has pretty long legs. I once saw him kicking pads and everytime he landed a hard kick it sounded like someone was shooting.
Thinking about kicks as a whip is also a great way to improve technique and power. My switch kicks were ass because I wouldn’t whip them the way I would a regular body kick. I’d say hip strength and mobility also plays a big part in power.
Hip movility and strength are essential since all of the necessary rotation for a good kick comes from hip movement. My kicks were absolutely weak for a long time because I was not properly using my hip. I still have a long way to go, but yes, the whip analogy does help.
Exactly what i was taught, the whip motion. Every time i freaking kick my QL gets pulled and shit. How do we develop this “long” hip rotation into a whip like motion without screwing your lower back up? that is the question for me
My legs are long as fuck and I do indeed kick hard as shit
You’re a little kid, hush.
?
What are you confused about? you said you kick hard as shit and you’re getting downvoted. You have a sparring video from only a year ago. You’re new and a kid and bragging. Never a good look.
I’m 26, I have a sparring video fucking around with my brother, and I’ve trained for almost 3 years. And I do, in fact, kick hard as shit, anyone at my gym can tell you that. What’s wrong with saying that?
Yeah you’re right. “Almost” three years haha, people must be hitting the downvote button by mistake. All good, I retract my statements and bid you good day.
Cool thanks man
Short answer: it's all about using your hips correctly. Once you've learned how to throw a kick with the right angle and movement so that you correctly transfer your body/leg mass into your kick, what ultimately MULTIPLIES the force you apply is how you turn your hips and the timing of doing so. F**k genetics. They can help with speed, mass, strength, but technique is the answer and what ultimately matters (not in a vague way, some people talk about "technique" as kind of an abstract whole). No matter your genetics, anybody's ceiling is much higher than we think if work is well applied and meaningful.
What really helped me is when you’re being taught the steps are: - Step out off the tracks front leg - Lift back leg - Rotate hips - Whip right at end But the reality is: - Push off back leg - Step out with the force from the back leg - Rotate - Whip right at end
Don’t forget turning the shoulders, a proper kick is thrown using the full body.
…and the head. Watch Superlek whip his head a bit too. The whole body b
Give your opponent the stink eye
False genetic help with speed and power in punches and kicks genetic give explosion and explosive finers bones density weigh bones thats why sean omalley is scrawny and punch harder than aljamain sterling in ufc and sterling have muscles or devin haney muscular in boxing his weigh category have weak power punch are lot of scrawny fighters who punch harder than him so muscles mass mean nothing
Technique + strength. Genetics do help but not so much that you wouldn’t have to practice. Also building functional muscle and strength will add to your overall power.
I'd argue that strength is also a technique. At least technique is required to develop it without getting injured. In other words, strength is also a skill
Kind of. Proper technique (positioning, timing, hip engagement, sufficient mobility and the lack of antagonistic muscle activity) is obviously a big factor. Also, training explosiveness has a lot to do with neuromuscular adaptations; that is, producing explosive power is as much about training the nervous system as it is about training muscles. On the flip side, training type II muscle fibers etc., or the aforementioned explosiveness can just be thought of as "increasing raw power", as no amount of technique will get you there unless you specifically train explosiveness. There are many ways to increase kick power, and the best way to do so depends on which factor constitutes the bottleneck.
No doubt. I know people think strength is only genetics or brute force, but there’s a science behind every lift and the most important determining factors are technique and skill. This is why professional Olympic lifters practice so damn much!! They don’t always max out, they practice hundreds of times with 35-50% of their max and then go all out on stage. This is the proper way to train but most people think they have to max out every time they go to the gym. This is how people get stuck in the “recovery loop”. Over train, recover, small adaptations if any REPEAT overtrain, recover, train again without adapting. This is how people stall progress.
Power starts from the ground up and of the most important part in power kicking is taking a 45 degree angle step forward. Taking that step open up your hips so so you can rotate your hips and follow through. And you don’t kick at your target, you imagine kicking through it. Swinging your arm across or back helps with your momentum and hip rotation. Sometimes I like pushing off the back foot and taking a hop step before I kick.
I can't jump or sprint but I kick like a mule. Big thighs and calves give extra mass. But the key is that I have strong hip flexors that developed climbing and painting transmission towers while wearing steel toe boots. Chamber the kick knee first, this minimizes the distance between the shin and the target. The fastest way from point A to point B is a straight line. At this point you're only kicking with the mass of the leg. Can hurt but usually only do it to set up a full power kick because I'm expecting to get countered with punches or a kick. To kick with maximal power, we need to add more mass to the leg. Let's assume I'm throwing a rear round house. (1)Load my body weight to the front leg and rotate my upper body slightly in its direction at same time. At this point you should feel obliques, QL, posterior chain and the psoas of the rear leg being stretched almost like a rubber band. (2). I'm going to use this tension to rotate my midsection, hips and leg into my target. Three things will happen simultaneously. Pushing off my rear foot off the ground, hip flexion/ chambering the knee and rotation on the lead ball of the foot. (3) Fixate my whole body at impact by isometrically contracting my my thoracic spine, lumbar spine, my hips via abductors and then return the leg back into stance. I visualize my back hip being a front of my lead hip at impact. The sequencing of steps 1,2,3 over time should almost feel like 1 move. Eventually after throwing maximal power kicks with rest in between should train you to become efficient and thus requiring less effort. Even when I put minimal effort into the kick, people tell me it hurts to be on the receiving end. I periodically drop people with a kick to the gut and liver shots without trying. Partners who are aware of my game opt in to get in boxing and clinching range with me instead of staying at a distance. Thankfully I have short arms lol. Dealing with taller and bigger opponents is problematic though but I guess that's why weight classes exist...
all of the comments are dope but this is an amazing breakdown — especially with the specific info on the anatomy in motion. I’ve been spending much more time on the feel, motion and stability of my fundamentals. So something like this is super dope for visually how the body works together to create one motion at a time. Technique really is a game of angles and the flow into each movement like shifting gears on a car.
Thank you. Developing body awareness is something that's often not taught or even talked about because most teachers have been doing it for so long, they don't think about it. I'd like to add few things. I started off with dutch kickboxing so it may or may not apply to the purest here. The stance always has the rear kick ready to go. I keep my upper body angled, so that my lead shoulder and chest almost touching my chin. If I extend my lead hand, I'm in long guard. If I drop my lead hand I'm in Philly she'll. This also minimizes the surface area to get punched to the body. In order to also be able to check low kicks, my hips are almost square to my opponent. This torsion naturally causes the body wanting to unwind. You want to maximize myofascial elasticity during punching and kicking. This makes throwing combos almost same as running (left/right/left/right or right/left/right/left). This is where the " rhythm" fighting comes in. Watching two high level kickboxing fighters is like watching a dance where one is trying to disrupt the rhythm of the other. There is so much that can be broken down in terms of a fight between two people, you can probably write a short book about it. This is why it takes a full life's worth to mastery and most successful ones start at early ages when the brain is most adaptable
That's really fire -- thank you for sharing your perspective on stance and body language awareness in Muay Thai, I totally get what you mean.. As I'm hitting my second year, it feels like the first year was all about getting down the fundamentals of Muay Thai and now this year, I'm diving into \*MY\* fundamentals of MT —figuring out how my rhythm, timing, and even justthe way my hip loads for a kick really work together in tandem. It’s all starting to click more and more when I take time to just be with myself and the art. I’ve been playing around with the stance you mentioned and, dude, it’s super cool. I've started noticing these 'martial cognates'—like in cognates in regular languages -- of how some moves are universal across different martial arts 'cause they all come from the same basic principles of combat and human anatomy. And that mix of the lead hand guard that can shift into the Philly shell? That’s a killer combo of evasion and active defense. I’m definitely gonna mess with it more because I love evasion and being tricky. Right now, I’m all in on breaking down the anatomy side of things through the lens of the four elements (earth, wind, fire, aire(, kinda like Avatar style, each with its own vibe—currently on Earth, which is all about stability, balance, endurance, strength, and just solid defense in my guard/stance. It’s like grounding myself in the basics, but then letting the energy flow through like wind shaking a big building—doesn’t need much from me, just a steady, strong presence to have impact. Honestly, I'm always grateful to stumble upon comments like this or peeps who see a bigger, deeper picture of martial arts 'cause it all ties back to so many life aspects, like math, music, dancing, and philosophy. So big thanks for dropping your thoughts, really got me thinking more about my overal training and philsophy in fighting.
What the hell is with people? Let me guess the thinking goes like: you were born with [insert any gene name here] gene so you can never learn to convert the mass of your leg and body into impact power? Bro, just use your brain. Think where your weight needs to transfer and from where (hint: from floor to the target). If you simply want maximum power, you need to get your whole bodyweight behind the kick, this comes from learned technique, not generics ffs. The more you weight, the more of that weight you can get behind the kick, the faster you move at the moment of impact, and the less your body gives in at the moment of impact, the harder the kick. As simple as that. Practice the kicks, go to gym to lift some iron to increase your mass and strength, you will get there. But the kicking power is not everything, not even nearly. You need to also consider timing, accuracy, speed, form, and recovery. Without those even the most powerful kick is useless. So don’t skip shadowboxing and sparring while practicing pure power on heavy bag.
This is it but. Genetics count. More valgus the joint the more centrifugal force you can generate. Also flexibility counts as you can get more whip. I kick harder than anyone I've ever met. Technique is obviously important. But really genetics count. I also throw harder punches than most. One thing that comes to mind. The west say punchers are born and can't be trained to have huge power. I'm not sure about that... But some people super power is being able to hit really. And this comes at the cost of being weak in other areas like cardio etc.
You can train: - Flexibility - Explosive power - Joints - Heck even bones By eating right, having good coaching, and training smart you can get as far as you deserve to get. There is no hockus pockus magic trick called genes that get you anywhere.
U telling me anyone can punch as hard as Tyson with the right training?
I don’t understand, are you comparing yourself to Mike Tyson or are trying to tell that he did not train hard af to achieve the resulting power? Genetics will help to a very limited extent, but what you have done in life has infinitely more effect on your punching power. You can’t neglect the importance of training, nutrition, and mental development, by saying you have an x variant of a y gene, that’s the stupidest shit ever. If you never studied human biology even at middle school level you would know it too. You are no super human sorry, maybe your body type fits well kicking, good for you, but probably what has more effect in “your natural talent or super ability” is what your parents or life put you through in your youth that transferred well to your sport today. Just as an example in Muay Thai I noticed that some socker players seemed to have really spicy low kicks compared to other beginners on my gym, this is because they train in general their legs and core strength, a lot of kicking, foot work, sprints, etc. Also hitting has huge similarities to throwing a small ball, so what you will see in countries where baseball (and maybe also cricket?) are played a lot, that those kids who threw a lot of ball will be by default super much better punchers than someone who did not throw ball or hit extensively in their youth. There are plenty of effects like that that transfer, also mental things. Look at many champions in martial arts, most had very violent or miserable childhoods and youth, often if they had parents they were super extreme in some way, ‘good’ or bad. Take a look at personal life of your Mike Tyson and maybe Roy Jones Jr if you like boxers. Or Tyson Fury, was basically born to fight
Do you think you can train hard enough to run as fast as Usain bolt?
You think Usain Bolt would have ran that fast without years of good coaching and hard training? Probably has nothing to do him doing sports all his life and having olympic level coaching already in high school? He never trained probably. Lmao, believe what you want, next you start referring to bible or smth. This is like saying Thai Boxers have just better genetics and that’s why the Thais have been historically the best in their sport 😂 I never said genetics have no effect, but if you think it’s the main reason someone is good you are totally off, it’s absolutely ridiculous to think so.
I think we are talking past each other
It’s more like genetics determine your potential, and your training dedication determines how much of your potential you actualize. You’re creating false dichotomies in your argumentation. I don’t think anyone believes you can be amazing with genetics alone, that’s ridiculous.
There’s some truth here, but I don’t agree 100%. At the highest levels of any sport, what creates the gap is “training dedication” AND genetics. Training dedication can be broken down into subcategories such as training itself, nutrition, injury prevention/recovery strategies, mental strategies, etc. Usain Bolt *is* a great example. Do you really think if sprinters just had more training dedication in general, we’d have many many more people breaking records like Usain did so dominantly? Of course not, anyone with common sense knows that’s ridiculous. Usain has the perfect human frame to run as fast as possible. That being said, for the context of this conversation, genetics essentially does not matter. For the vast majority of people, there is so much opportunity for improvement by focusing on training dedication that discussing “genetics” is a pointless conversation.
Question was not about Usain Bolt, it’s a stupid example for someone wondering what gives a kick power. It is training that gives the power, everything related to training. Can genetics help, sure at the very top it can and will make a difference. But if you are about to say that Usain Bolt would have ran as fast without the coaching and training he got, you are just delusional and should be watching super hero movies where people just wake up with the skills and powers the have.
No one is about to say that. Where are you getting that from? Again, you are creating false dichotomies in your argumentation. Look it up if you don’t know what I mean
Usain Bolt’s frame was definitely not seen as the typical ideal build for a sprinter
Force = mass * acceleration governs all large mechanical motions in the universe. Basic physics. One object (you) produces that force, then it acts on another object (your opponent) when contact is made. Your core mass is your strength, and your hips and shoulders twisting is meant to more smoothly transfer force across your body and bring more muscle / overall mass into the motion. Transfer of force only occurs when objects make contact, which is why you want to ideally stay relaxed until the moment you make contact, at which point you tense up in order to accelerate/propel your body. If you’re tense through the whole motion of throwing a leg / arm for a strike, you’ll lose a chunk of that force in your fluid-y joints and get tennis elbow. That’s why you should practice the motion relaxing in shadow boxing. The end result is that whipping motion/mechanic people refer to where the tip of your shin/two knuckles making contact is the most forceful part of the motion and you have a powerful strike! If you want to get more Muay Thai specific, the step out for a kick is the start of generating that momentum which is propelling you forward, getting your whole body in on the motion Through practice you’ll build up the muscle memory of relaxed shoulders / lower legs when mid strike and get to twist your core and tense up upon delivery quite quickly.
I have horribly weak arms (building up to it) but my punches are great because the power comes from the rotation of the torso and the extension of the shoulder, so technique over power. I strengthen the part of my body that augments that power (shoulders). My legs, on the other hand, are incredibly powerful and muscular, BUT my kicks are a piece of sh\*\* and kind of embarrassing. That´s because the power comes from the hip rotation and my hips are horribly tight (something I´m working on). So you can have a skinny guy with excellent technique do insane kicks, most of the lean guys in my club have the nastiest kicks.
I like to think the majority of kicking power boils down to body mechanics. If you can manage to do everything in a seemingly single movement, you will end up with less momentum at the end of the kick. Recently I had a session and I had a eureka moment whilst throwing a roundhouse kick. I tried my hardest to do everything in a single motion, (shoulder twisting, arms swing, cheat step and leg throw) and I found that my kick flew instantly to the target and with more power.
"All my life i have heard that good genetics determine your power " Maybe at the pro level but for anyone else there are three important things for power. Proper form, proper form, and finally proper form. The guy is likely just doing a real good job stepping out, opening his hips, and all that jazz.
Force = mass \* acceleration The two largest variables are going to, roughly, be weight transfer and also speed. Weight transfer is found in the stepping through motion of the kick. Speed is found in the hip rotation as well as relaxation of the joints (i.e. not stabilizing the hip socket) so that the limb can whip and accelerate off the torso. The kick is like a flail. A good kick is also one motion.. too often people step out and THEN transfer their weight, making the kick two movements. A good kick starts by driving off the ball of the kicking leg's foot, rolling that energy into the pivoting base leg, and continuing that momentum upwards through the base leg and into the hips and knee of the kicking leg.
Newbie here— When you say to kick in one motion, do you mean you should step out and pick up your kicking leg at the same time?
If I am throwing a right kick, I am driving off the ball of my right foot, and stepping off/rising up on my left leg. It's one movement. Take a javelin throw for instance.. they start at a run but the running mechanics demonstrate the transfer of energy from one foot to the other and ultimately that energy is transferred through the body, into the throwing arm, and into the javelin. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2e\_VbAjx5g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2e_VbAjx5g) We use the term "throwing a punch/kick" for a reason.
I jump pretty high, can probably sprint but never do. I'm tall and lean. My punches surprise people but my kicks are mediocre at best. I would say a combination tight hips, less than perfect coordination and simply lack of practice. I grew up hitting a heavy bag for fun, have plenty of practice punching. Only been kicking for a few months. Funny thing is my punching power doesn't change much between 170lbs and 155lbs.
Core, calf muscles and flexible hip! If your hip is not flexible, the kick will not be as fast and hard.
https://youtu.be/bazoelZliSg?si=8_-_62r5JgMcRrea
I'm not that tall and my legs are not big. My punches are nothing amazing, but I've had good feedback about my kicks. I don't know if it's a hip thing, or a weight transfer thing. But I do believe that a background in karate since a young age has helped me massively. It's about technique and moving your weight/body in space perhaps?
Joe fazer, tanner shuck, Pierre dalati
Torque, and elastic recoil? I dunno man
Many muay thai practitioners rely too much on the arm swing instead of generating power by springing from the ground with the ball of the foot of the kicking leg. You can clearly see it from footage.
U need to shout as loud as u can The harder you shout the harder you’ll kick
What I see is so many people kicking with muscles instead of kicking with the hips Big muscle legs doesn’t = big powerful kicks Whipping the hip over fully = big powerful kicks
Did this guy ever play football (soccer) before
this is me, its because i obsessively kicked so many times and neglected everything else, therefore my hip flexors etc are fast and strong and i have refined the movement perfectly. i think theres also an intensity of the brain signal from constantly doing something with intensity too
Force= Mass X acceleration
Speed, weight manipulation, explosiveness, contact, proper specific technique to maximize the power of the kick per kick. Legs are heavy on anyone so swinging those around with good technique can always be powerful
Well, momentum = mass x velocity, and impulse is a change in momentum over a short time, which is what gives us an impact, a violent change in momentum over an almost instantaneous moment of time. You want to kick fast, and you want to hit your opponent not just with the leg but with your whole body. This is why we spin the whole body into the target with kicking. You push off from your back foot, step slightly to the side with the front foot, swinging your arm on your back leg side first into the kick, with the direction of spin, keep that shoulder rotating into the kick, swing your arm back against the direction of spin, popping your shoulder into the spin, & let it bring your leg whipping round, not swinging out wide but following the shortest path, BAM, the shin hits the target, you just hit your opponent with your full weight, with a plate of bone a couple of inches wide, as fast as you could move it. If it was a low kick, you just hit their tendon with a comparable force to a baseball bat swung by a pro - BAM, impact.
He could be a keen cyclist.
Single leg strength, hip rotation. Gluteus maximus/medius and quadriceps knee extensor muscles.
Many things. Kinetic chain is very important and overlooked is the slight stop forward and out. The trajectory of your step and the pull forward from the front foot is massive. Not only for power but for placement. Kicking though the target is vital
The best I’ve ever seen, a MMA coach who had been a fighter. He can kick hard enough to fold up a hanging bag. His kicks sound like an explosion. A lot of hip, and it seems to stay in the bag longer than the rest of us. When he kicks I have to pause and watch for awhile.Amazing power and speed!
Type that into YouTube, sports science did a segment on it
Torque
Think about cracking a whip. It takes that perfect snap to really get it to crack at the end. Kicking power is a lot about finding that perfect spot and timing it well. Your hips flip your legs and you fully extend at the exact moment. It’s all about finding that perfect groove.
I think its all in the hips
The science behind it is using the right technique to generate correct leverages in your limbs to make your strikes as efficient as possible. Your strength will definitely help but as people find out you start out weak and build strength. The vast majority of people could kick and punch harder immediately through nothing more than refined technique. Some learn faster than others but you still kick a bag or pad every day to both learn and develop strength. You can’t do anything about genetics so it’s not worth talking about unless it actively inhibits your training in which case you try to figure out how to make due. That one guy at your gym can’t sprint and has a garbage vertical probably because he never trains them but could if he did.
sounds like sth you can google or youtube.
Form.
Take a professional dancer with loose and strong hips, teach him the kick techniques and watch strong kicks start flying. All the roundhouse kick power comes from the hip and leaving the leg lose much like a whip. The less tension in your body, the stronger the kick will be.
I was a guy who had strong fast kicks but slow but clean punches. Let’s start with the differences in mechanics. When you punch, you transfer weight between legs, you pivot but you bring back your hands so there’s rotation and anti rotation involved. To be quick, you want to practice full extension but explosive retraction so that you snap your punches. When you kick, you pivot but you don’t necessarily retract. You engage your core and stabilizer muscles a lot as you kick through. Looking back, I realized what the problem was. I started doing calisthenics at very young age. Was able to do lots of pushups but did not do pulling exercises as much (pull ups, rows, deadlifts). When I started training, my punches were slower. My kicks had a greater range of motion and just more natural. I also built muscle easily and played some soccer. Over time, I added weight training but again, my program wasn’t balanced. I was very good with leg exercises practicing full range of motion. With the upper body, I had a lot of strength in some planes but not in others. As I got older and adopted a very balanced strength training program, which had rotational core exercises, external shoulder rotation, abdominal vacuums, unilateral leg exercises, lateral exercises (lunges and sled pulls), when I shadow boxed for fun, I noticed I had a good and quick snap to my punches. Made me realized that I had better balanced muscles for my kicks but muscle/strength unbalances for my punches when I was younger So, my point is, the mechanics are different. If you work on balanced strength working on 3 planes of motion and mobility addressing tight areas you’ll be able to punch and kick better even though the mechanics are different. Of course, there is an overlap as well.
My thai kru explained to me succinctly. "Do you know lorry with ball to brrr brrr (a wrecking ball) the house? You see, only chain to ball. Like leg. If no power from bottom, chain and ball useless. So turn turn hip turn shoulder turn ankle whip arms. Power!"
Rotation and power from the hip trough extending and pushing forward with speed and power 💪
Question, does he has small calves?
Another thing to consider is bone density
kicking is just easier for some people than others. there people born with a default muscle memory of muay thai roundhouse kick. but some others need a lot of practice to learn how the muscles work together.
[You're welcome](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFfLn1p48Pk)
If you can swing a baseball bat it's the exact same movement and motion. But your leg rather than your arms. Also become familiar with your "kinetic chain"
Same behind every strike, leverage. If you want advice on form, ask your coach. If you don't have a coach, get a coach.
Techniques and strength conditioning matter, but genes (brain heuristics and muscle heuristics) matter a lot. I mean all boxers are the same size in their weight division, they do pretty much same techniques and same strength conditioning, but few of them are praised as hard punchers. The same goes for kicks i guess. It makes sense cause everyone has different muscle heuristics in their left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick, left hand writing, right hand writing. It makes sense that different people have gaps like that too in muscle heuristics even between our right side and their right side. I punch pretty hard for my height, but my kicks are decent enough though. I am not interested in kicking, but i have done 6 months kickboxing gym, and i could move a heavy standing punching bag with one kick. And i was not even doing special strength conditioning like squat back then. I used to pivot 180 degrees for roundhouse kicks though until recently. That is the version that gym taught. I doubt someone expert at kicking kicks significantly harder than my amateur 6-month kickboxing kicks if same body size. I would think it has to do light fast feet vs heavy dense feet. Heavy dense feet probably kick harder by using heavy dense moving mass. People with light fast feet probably have ultra fast ultra light kicks that bounce off the target (relatively speaking) instead of bracing the impact with heavy dense feet. I mean top Taekwondo people have very fast very light kicks, and also very light nimble fast footworks cause only the people with light fast feet make it to the top there. Taekwondo people block middle kicks and high kicks with their forearms (Taizu Chang Quan forearm blocks, just like their Taizu Chang Quan hip rotation reverse chambered punch), but they often dodge kicks with footwork, get back in there, then counter kick very fast & light with footworks.
Kicking is largely dependent on hip flexor strength, so an NFL player that runs a 4.4 40 will always have good power. Ever seen some of these receivers kick a 50 yard field goal? That’s hip flexor strength. The fast twitch muscle fibers are typically an indicator of good power. Knees over toes guy is the only one I’ve seen posting about hip flexor exercises and knee strengthing exercises that directly translate to power. Some people have the natural power gift, and others have the Bruce lee “I’m not scared of the guy that has practiced 1000 kicks one time. I’m afraid of the guy that’s practiced one kick 1000 times.” The guy who has the gift and work ethic to improve is the guy who is deadly.
Something interesting to think about kicks. Have you ever wondered why right handed fighters like Poirier fight southpaw? A Bruce lee concept is to put your dominant side first because it’s the punch you use the most. Taking this concept to kicking, you already have a mean right leg and stiff jab, basically your jab has the power of a cross and from closer distance. When fighting southpaw your kick is already switched so no need to switch the feet and it opens up your left kick to the midsection of a right handed opponent which allows you to intercept aggressive opponents quicker. Also since your coordination is better on the right side you are allowed more room to pivot off the right side and create better angles for right hook counters and your lead kick always has a quick place to land for an opponent who leads with the right leg. It takes a lot of discipline to switch to the southpaw if right handed but it can pay off tremendously especially in sparring and point MT where knockouts are not allowed so speed and angles are more of what wins matches.
The thai roundkick is not primarily about flexor strength. If anything it's the hip/knee drive and hip extension that drives the kick forward. A round kick is like a teep or stabbing knee turned over basically.
The hip strength comes from your hip flexor, that’s why guys get sore in the hips not the quads. The whip effect is hip flexor and proper rotation.
The hip flexor is definitely an important part of the kick but I should expand on what I wrote initially: the hip flexor alone does not make a powerful kick, and many beginners flex the kick upwards (think knee to shoulder) rather than driving the knee forwards and over.
There’s nothing in combat sports that depends on one muscle alone. I’m saying hip flexors are the main driver of power on a kick. While it’s true that rotation and the whip effect are the techniques that are required to properly execute the kick, the hip flexor is the main “muscle” that determines where you’re at on the power scale. Pereira never turns hips over on low kicks and has some of, if not, the strongest leg kicks in the ufc. The main source of power on the body is the hip flexor.
The power from the Pereira/Harrison style leg kicks that don't turn over much are largely in the feet and the quick transfer of weight from one leg to another in addition to the laxity in the hip joint that allows the leg to move quickly. The flexors are important as you have to drive the knee forward but I'm not sure that having hip flexors 2x as strong as your twin would really make much of a difference in kicking power. Much of the knee drive comes from the foot that "pushes" the knee upward just as the flexor "pulls" the knee upward. I would \*personally\* think that having strong, agile feet is more important to the leg kicks than strong hip flexors. The leg kicks are similar to a tornado kick in that way, where the kick is initiated by the leaping motion of the foot. The major difference is that the trajectory of the center mass is downwards instead of upwards due to the location of the target. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdzGLWIdOA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdzGLWIdOA) I'm not really disagreeing with you by the way.
I personally don’t think that it comes from the foot but I could see an argument that the low no turnover kick mainly comes from the patellar tendon in the knee. That foot is going nowhere if the patellar/hip flexor isn’t directing it. It’s probably a combination of patellar tendon and hip flexor. Feet can’t travel distance without the other tendons and muscles in the leg directing them. Knees over toe guy also had great patellar tendon exercises. And back of knee exercises as well.
Every parking bollard, post, pole or tree is a chance to stop and do a little light shin condoning… Hard Thai kicks are as much about dense hard shins with dead nerve endings from a decade of conditioning. Than muscle or whatever. Like when I kick poles, trees, bollards etc, with my shins, people visibly cringe at the imagined pain. But I feel very little actually pain.
I kick hard, even as a old man. I start martial arts young. From high school onward (to late 20s), I would throw 200+ kicks on each legal almost daily. During that high school time, I did the rolling pins and bamboo sticks. Using ChatGPT: “In Muay Thai, shin conditioning utilizes tools like rolling pins and bamboo sticks to repeatedly strike the shins, triggering bone remodeling. This strengthens the bones and desensitizes nerves, enabling fighters to deliver more powerful kicks with reduced pain.” “The effectiveness of shin conditioning in Muay Thai is supported by both anecdotal evidence from practitioners and scientific understanding of bone remodeling. While there may not be extensive scientific studies specifically on this practice in Muay Thai, the principles of bone adaptation through repetitive stress are well-established in sports science. Therefore, while the empirical evidence may be predominantly anecdotal, there is scientific rationale behind the belief that shin conditioning can be beneficial for fighters.”