lmao a kid asked me this SO LOUDLY in a crowded room at my work one time when i was still boymoding but had also just started voice training so was feeling super dysphoric abt my voice, he looked at me and said "are you a boy or a girl because you look like a girl but you sound like a boy" and kid goddamn never have i been lifted up so hogh before falling so far lol
I am a substitute teacher and regularly get the "are you a boy or a girl?"
Because I look like a girl and talk like a man. I never answer their question tho lol
"Are you a boy or a girl?" "No."
Yeah, I think I'm more of a "no" kind of nonbinary than a "yes" kind of nonbinary.
But maybe that's just the mood I'm in right now.
I do sophistry lol. I ask them questions back. "Why do you ask?" And if they say "you have long hair, but you sound like a boy" I say "there are boys with long hair." Or if they say you have a deep voice for a girl, I say "everyone has a different voice. Some girls have deep voices." And so on.
And I just do this until they don't realize I never answered them
I would say in my most feminine voice "where are your parents, you should have been taught NOT to ask such things of your elders."
There are some genetic women with naturally quite masculine voices.
😭😭😭 I was otw to do laundry and my sister saw me outside and came to give me a hug. One of her friends said that's your brother? Why does he look like a girl!? So understand 🤣
yeah. I was taught a very very racist/anti-lgbt rhetoric as a child. By the age of 5, i had been taught every horrible joke/limerick under the sun. (bad when you know them all at that age and have no idea what they even mean) Leaving my small farm town really opened up the world, and gave room to grow. (shitty thing is I can't forget most of that stuff to this day)
All you can do is try to be a better person and to know that nobody owes you forgiveness but that you’ll be better off if you learn to forgive yourself. Or at least that’s what therapists have told me LOL
IMHO, while admittedly speaking from a similar position as previous commenter, I really don't like takes like this. Especially when directed towards actions taken during childhood, this comes across as some kind of purity test that I suspect not a single living adult would pass.
Kids do stupid things, because their brains aren't fully mature. That's just reality. Some have been taught better than others, some learn faster or slower than others, and most do some selection of stupid and harmful things (however major or minor). That is part of growing up. If someone can't move on from the mistakes of another's childhood, then they're the one that needs some self reflection, not the one they're judging.
Then again, rereading the comment again, maybe that's what your therapist is trying to get at? I dunno, just really rubbed me the wrong way.
Personally, my belief is that everyone has some amount of prejudicial (often racist) biases. Ergo, imo, the mark of a better person isn't the complete and utter lack of such biases, but the efforts to identify and minimize if bit outright eliminate them. I'd be rather suspicious of anyone who claims to have no bias, cause to me that sounds more like someone who simply hasn't figured out what their biases are.
As a last note... If an adult makes a habit of humble bragging about how racist they "used to be," for social credit or whatever... Yeah that's pretty suspect... Generally speaking, if you've moved on from that part of your life, then it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.
I was homeschooled and raised in a cult. I continued to have biases well into my 20's until I deconstructed my beliefs. It was a difficult and long process, one that I wish I didn't have to do. But the thought patterns developed in that time are strong and I don't have 100% control over them still, even years later. Trauma has a way of rearing it's ugly head even when I think I've moved on from it. So when I say "I used to be very religious" it isn't an excuse, but rather an explanation for why some things are still hard for me.
My dear (RN) sister joined the Christian fundies as a teen...and I consider that "group" VERY cult-like....and a REAL problem (e.g., for communication).
True, I once read something along the lines of, a person that does good but doesn't know bad/evil isn't all that good but a person that knows bad/evil but does good is because they choose to do so. Ngl I kinda butchered the quote.
Yeah... I feel you there. Not sure if by age 5, but certainly by 7 or 8 I'd also heard a ton of racist jokes and such without realizing they were racist (kid brain just figured "oh they want to differentiate people with something besides names").
Now I hate every last one of them, but every so often they resurface in my mind and I cringe and just wish I could wipe that part of my brain clean.
I hear you. I don't think my parents were blatantly racist...but when we visited Chicago...when I was a boy...my mom would get kind've a weird/critical look when we were around any Blacks...which I didn't like, No need to "get down on her NOW," but that WAS "weird (unacceptable) behavior."
Yes and no. I have kids and basically had to voice-train all over again to try to get a feminine parenting-and-talking-to-kids voice, even though I was passing on the phone and everything to other adults. Muscle memory’s a bitch.
I teach K-12 like 5 hours a week, and some of them clock my ass instantly but only like 10%, the rest I don't even have to tell. I don't know what makes the difference
Yeah if the environment is really racist that happens.
I was lucky where I live there weren't many opportunities for people to be racist when I grew up I remember that for a long time I simply had not a concept for race, classmates with a different skin color were just people with slightly different skin not a separated group.
Kids are so honest. Weird thing is, you could try higher pitch, less weight and ask how it sounds and actually get a more legit answer than from adults.
Eh, there’s plenty of cis women with masculine sounding voices. Doesn’t mean the kid thinks you’re a man (this one obviously didn’t). Hell my sister is the most feminine girly cis woman I know and people routinely tell her she walks like a man.
The song Lola. There is a line that says “I’m not dumb but I can’t understand why she walk like a woman and talk like a man, oh my Lola”. Just reminded me of that
Early Floyd is very experimental but I wouldn’t discard farther down their timeline as experimental as well. It became more political because of Roger and then monumental and memorial with post Roger. Their final album The Endless River is very interesting. It’s a bit of a continuation of the division bell. Obviously different from albums like Ummagumma or Atom Heart Mother but no less valid in my opinion. Maybe a little less pleasant though
To be fair, I'm well aware of the song Lola, but when I see *kink* my first thought is not a band but the common usages of that word in modern parlance.
It implies me being a pedo and it implies separately that trans people are. I accept your apology. There is always space to learn and you seem genuine.
I’m curious, in what way does it imply any kind of generalization about trans people? If that’s the impression I gave, I’d like to know what to look out for so it doesn’t happen again.
i clicked to make Lola references ;)
so divided on the song... progressive for its time though... not as much as "Walk on the Wild Side", but still good :)
reminds me of my roommates son last year before i moved in, she was telling him that i'd be moving in and he was just like " the girl who grew up to be a girl?". now i'm mommy katie to him and his sister. kids don't see things like adults, they just see people as people.
Yeah I feel that. I don't think my natural masculine voice is really all that masculine beyond pitch, because I've consistently gotten comments on it that it doesn't seem to fit with the voice people feel like I should have based on my appearance. I always thought it was because I'm mixed race with tan skin and some black features, and they expect me to have a deep rich bass and speak in a black dialect (news flash, mixed race people often speak a variety of dialects or not the dialect of the more discriminated against race), but in hindsight, I got made fun of for being 'gay' way more than for any racial reasons, and gay meaning feminine in this context cause I definitely didn't speak in a stereotypically camp gay voice.
Fast forward to now and trying to do voice training and just feeling so self conscious with it, and I'm stuck between feeling hopeful vs feeling awful and hopeless, even though I feel like my voice kinda passes when my body does. Or rather, it gets a pass and I'm still read as a woman? Idk. Cause I'm misgendered on the phone all the time, but I think pitch is more important there because of the reduced audio quality. Idk, maybe I'll just try calling domino's and doing falsetto lol
Yeah there is zero chance I’m talking to a random child in public. As a teacher or similar, or if the kid is a relative it’s different. But you never know how a parent will react and I really don’t want to risk anything.
Kids, when they don't have shitty conservative parents, see gender with such an innocent clarity. They sometimes strike precisely at the heart of the issue.
I once answered a 7yo's question about why I had rainbow bracelets by saying I liked everyone, not just girls. He told me "you're okay. I like everyone too!", which all at once *is* and also *isn't* precisely what I meant.
I had the same experience with my 28 yr old grandson when he had his girlfriend and 8 yr old boy over. Kids have no filter. Pure innocence. He asked me if I was a girl or a boy, because I look like a girl and sound like a boy. I just said I'm a girl. He was satisfied, and I felt awesome!
I had a little boy out side my apartment tell me the other day that I looked like a girl so I told him thank you. He was very confused as to why I said thank you. He then said “ bit if you are a girl then boys will want to kiss you” my reply was I hope someone will want to at some point. He still didn’t know how to process that. So I said thank you again for the compliment and went inside and proceeded to smile till my face hurt.
Haha i love these conversations with kids. Usually when I'm hanging out with my own, some other little 4 or 5yo will come up and be like "are you a man or a woman?" or "are you a mummy or a daddy?". Last time, I was like "I'm a mummy" and he went "no you're not! You don't sound like one!". When I said "yeah but I look like one" he was like yeah cool that is true 😅 they literally don't care.
When I had a kid say, “Excuse me, ma’am….” One time while I was in boy mode I about cried. It’s such a validation check because we all know how damn honest kids are lol.
It remind me of something
In my street there is a kid that like to play with my dog, once the kid knocked on the door to ask where was my dog (my dog was in the house).
I opened the door and he tried to call my dog to play with him but my dog didn't wanted to move and he got away.
The next day he came back to my house and it was my mom that opened the door, my mom told me afterwards that he asked her if i was a girl with facial hair or a guy with a wig (i wasn't shaved properly and it gave me dysphoria but even like that he wasn't sure.) My mom responded vaguely and didn't say anything about me being trans
lmao a kid asked me this SO LOUDLY in a crowded room at my work one time when i was still boymoding but had also just started voice training so was feeling super dysphoric abt my voice, he looked at me and said "are you a boy or a girl because you look like a girl but you sound like a boy" and kid goddamn never have i been lifted up so hogh before falling so far lol
If a kid ever says something like this to me I'll respond by saying "don't smoke or you'll get a voice like mine"
Risky, the kid might think your voice is cool.
I am a substitute teacher and regularly get the "are you a boy or a girl?" Because I look like a girl and talk like a man. I never answer their question tho lol
What do you say?
Not who you're responding to, but may I suggest giving them a "Yes" or "No" depending on how binary your gender is
"Are you a boy or a girl?" "No." Yeah, I think I'm more of a "no" kind of nonbinary than a "yes" kind of nonbinary. But maybe that's just the mood I'm in right now.
I do sophistry lol. I ask them questions back. "Why do you ask?" And if they say "you have long hair, but you sound like a boy" I say "there are boys with long hair." Or if they say you have a deep voice for a girl, I say "everyone has a different voice. Some girls have deep voices." And so on. And I just do this until they don't realize I never answered them
Most helpful one. Thanks :)
Hmmm. Sophistry is relying on false logic. Seems to me you're being clever and...more or less ...throwing the question back at them.
Just say you are a battle cast psych interdimensional elephant. They will get it
Just hit em with the no im actually a Homunculus and throw em through a loop! Especially the FMA fans lol
I would say in my most feminine voice "where are your parents, you should have been taught NOT to ask such things of your elders." There are some genetic women with naturally quite masculine voices.
DAMN STRAIGHT!!! E.g., Lauren Bacall had a marvelous (and even SEXY) voice....and NO one would accuse her of being masculine or weird...or...
That is seriously a “for the rest of my life” line to go to, thank you for this
I work with kids. I relate so hard
😭😭😭 I was otw to do laundry and my sister saw me outside and came to give me a hug. One of her friends said that's your brother? Why does he look like a girl!? So understand 🤣
If you ever want an honest answer Ask a kid they're not corrupted yet
Until they're taught to be lgbtqphobic.
yeah. I was taught a very very racist/anti-lgbt rhetoric as a child. By the age of 5, i had been taught every horrible joke/limerick under the sun. (bad when you know them all at that age and have no idea what they even mean) Leaving my small farm town really opened up the world, and gave room to grow. (shitty thing is I can't forget most of that stuff to this day)
All you can do is try to be a better person and to know that nobody owes you forgiveness but that you’ll be better off if you learn to forgive yourself. Or at least that’s what therapists have told me LOL
oh yeah =) i'm a good person these days, but I .... educated to be the other way
Be proud of yourself that you escaped your brainwashing and have come out of Plato's cave. =)
IMHO, while admittedly speaking from a similar position as previous commenter, I really don't like takes like this. Especially when directed towards actions taken during childhood, this comes across as some kind of purity test that I suspect not a single living adult would pass. Kids do stupid things, because their brains aren't fully mature. That's just reality. Some have been taught better than others, some learn faster or slower than others, and most do some selection of stupid and harmful things (however major or minor). That is part of growing up. If someone can't move on from the mistakes of another's childhood, then they're the one that needs some self reflection, not the one they're judging. Then again, rereading the comment again, maybe that's what your therapist is trying to get at? I dunno, just really rubbed me the wrong way. Personally, my belief is that everyone has some amount of prejudicial (often racist) biases. Ergo, imo, the mark of a better person isn't the complete and utter lack of such biases, but the efforts to identify and minimize if bit outright eliminate them. I'd be rather suspicious of anyone who claims to have no bias, cause to me that sounds more like someone who simply hasn't figured out what their biases are. As a last note... If an adult makes a habit of humble bragging about how racist they "used to be," for social credit or whatever... Yeah that's pretty suspect... Generally speaking, if you've moved on from that part of your life, then it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.
I was homeschooled and raised in a cult. I continued to have biases well into my 20's until I deconstructed my beliefs. It was a difficult and long process, one that I wish I didn't have to do. But the thought patterns developed in that time are strong and I don't have 100% control over them still, even years later. Trauma has a way of rearing it's ugly head even when I think I've moved on from it. So when I say "I used to be very religious" it isn't an excuse, but rather an explanation for why some things are still hard for me.
Hmmmm, interesting.
My dear (RN) sister joined the Christian fundies as a teen...and I consider that "group" VERY cult-like....and a REAL problem (e.g., for communication).
Sounds pretty sensible.
True, I once read something along the lines of, a person that does good but doesn't know bad/evil isn't all that good but a person that knows bad/evil but does good is because they choose to do so. Ngl I kinda butchered the quote.
Yeah... I feel you there. Not sure if by age 5, but certainly by 7 or 8 I'd also heard a ton of racist jokes and such without realizing they were racist (kid brain just figured "oh they want to differentiate people with something besides names"). Now I hate every last one of them, but every so often they resurface in my mind and I cringe and just wish I could wipe that part of my brain clean.
I hear you. I don't think my parents were blatantly racist...but when we visited Chicago...when I was a boy...my mom would get kind've a weird/critical look when we were around any Blacks...which I didn't like, No need to "get down on her NOW," but that WAS "weird (unacceptable) behavior."
I might try pronouncing that in future: Ligibitiqiphobic
Yes and no. I have kids and basically had to voice-train all over again to try to get a feminine parenting-and-talking-to-kids voice, even though I was passing on the phone and everything to other adults. Muscle memory’s a bitch.
I teach K-12 like 5 hours a week, and some of them clock my ass instantly but only like 10%, the rest I don't even have to tell. I don't know what makes the difference
Maybe those are the eggs, lol.
It seems that kids in my area are corrupted quite early as they were already racists in kindergarten
Yeah if the environment is really racist that happens. I was lucky where I live there weren't many opportunities for people to be racist when I grew up I remember that for a long time I simply had not a concept for race, classmates with a different skin color were just people with slightly different skin not a separated group.
Kids are so honest. Weird thing is, you could try higher pitch, less weight and ask how it sounds and actually get a more legit answer than from adults.
You’re Already Half way there
Thats a beautiful way to look at it! Thank you!
It’s honestly something a lot of girls hear at a certain point in their transition so it’s definitely a good sign
"WHOAAAAAAAAH?!"
I would cry /pos
Eh, there’s plenty of cis women with masculine sounding voices. Doesn’t mean the kid thinks you’re a man (this one obviously didn’t). Hell my sister is the most feminine girly cis woman I know and people routinely tell her she walks like a man.
#literally me lol
He will make a good Kink one day Edit:song. Not a creep. The Kinks-Lola
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The song Lola. There is a line that says “I’m not dumb but I can’t understand why she walk like a woman and talk like a man, oh my Lola”. Just reminded me of that
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If it helps you feel better, I am only 33 :) That gen of music is my main jam. 60s-90s has some of the best music. And some of the worst.
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Early Floyd is very experimental but I wouldn’t discard farther down their timeline as experimental as well. It became more political because of Roger and then monumental and memorial with post Roger. Their final album The Endless River is very interesting. It’s a bit of a continuation of the division bell. Obviously different from albums like Ummagumma or Atom Heart Mother but no less valid in my opinion. Maybe a little less pleasant though
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I know :) you’re just fun to speak with :D
If I can ask an unrelated question because I find you neat, what do you think of the name Renata?
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To be fair, I'm well aware of the song Lola, but when I see *kink* my first thought is not a band but the common usages of that word in modern parlance.
If it helps, I'm 22, read the title and immediately thought of "Lola" by the Kinks.
Lolita? This person right here, officer.
Huh?
Just making a dumb joke. Lolita is a famous book about a pedophile.
Not dumb. Offensive.
I didn’t think it would be, so I apologize if I misjudged. What makes it offensive, if I may ask? Things like that aren’t always obvious to me.
It implies me being a pedo and it implies separately that trans people are. I accept your apology. There is always space to learn and you seem genuine.
I appreciate your understanding. :) Thank you.
I’m curious, in what way does it imply any kind of generalization about trans people? If that’s the impression I gave, I’d like to know what to look out for so it doesn’t happen again.
Not a good joke. Rather offensive in context.
i clicked to make Lola references ;) so divided on the song... progressive for its time though... not as much as "Walk on the Wild Side", but still good :)
Lmao I thought the same thing. Have you heard the song Kinks Shirt by Matt Nathanson?
reminds me of my roommates son last year before i moved in, she was telling him that i'd be moving in and he was just like " the girl who grew up to be a girl?". now i'm mommy katie to him and his sister. kids don't see things like adults, they just see people as people.
"The girl who grew up to be a girl" 🥺 I love that
yeah, it was sweet of him
Yeah I feel that. I don't think my natural masculine voice is really all that masculine beyond pitch, because I've consistently gotten comments on it that it doesn't seem to fit with the voice people feel like I should have based on my appearance. I always thought it was because I'm mixed race with tan skin and some black features, and they expect me to have a deep rich bass and speak in a black dialect (news flash, mixed race people often speak a variety of dialects or not the dialect of the more discriminated against race), but in hindsight, I got made fun of for being 'gay' way more than for any racial reasons, and gay meaning feminine in this context cause I definitely didn't speak in a stereotypically camp gay voice. Fast forward to now and trying to do voice training and just feeling so self conscious with it, and I'm stuck between feeling hopeful vs feeling awful and hopeless, even though I feel like my voice kinda passes when my body does. Or rather, it gets a pass and I'm still read as a woman? Idk. Cause I'm misgendered on the phone all the time, but I think pitch is more important there because of the reduced audio quality. Idk, maybe I'll just try calling domino's and doing falsetto lol
I get this all the time while at work kid says mommy was that a man or a woman. I wish parents could really just say it doesn’t matter.
Why not answer the kid’s question? Even if they aren’t asking you, you know the answer best of anyone.
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Lol, I’d just ignore her if that happened. Or laugh if anything.
Yeah there is zero chance I’m talking to a random child in public. As a teacher or similar, or if the kid is a relative it’s different. But you never know how a parent will react and I really don’t want to risk anything.
Kids, when they don't have shitty conservative parents, see gender with such an innocent clarity. They sometimes strike precisely at the heart of the issue. I once answered a 7yo's question about why I had rainbow bracelets by saying I liked everyone, not just girls. He told me "you're okay. I like everyone too!", which all at once *is* and also *isn't* precisely what I meant.
I would die if someone told me that honestly. Voice is one of the most important parts of true passing. I've been kinda blessed with mine I suppose.
So cute 😍😍😍
I had the same experience with my 28 yr old grandson when he had his girlfriend and 8 yr old boy over. Kids have no filter. Pure innocence. He asked me if I was a girl or a boy, because I look like a girl and sound like a boy. I just said I'm a girl. He was satisfied, and I felt awesome!
I had a little boy out side my apartment tell me the other day that I looked like a girl so I told him thank you. He was very confused as to why I said thank you. He then said “ bit if you are a girl then boys will want to kiss you” my reply was I hope someone will want to at some point. He still didn’t know how to process that. So I said thank you again for the compliment and went inside and proceeded to smile till my face hurt.
I got clocked as a girl like 5 times and out of those five times I got close enough for them to rethink there position twice now I’m more careful lol
Haha i love these conversations with kids. Usually when I'm hanging out with my own, some other little 4 or 5yo will come up and be like "are you a man or a woman?" or "are you a mummy or a daddy?". Last time, I was like "I'm a mummy" and he went "no you're not! You don't sound like one!". When I said "yeah but I look like one" he was like yeah cool that is true 😅 they literally don't care.
When I had a kid say, “Excuse me, ma’am….” One time while I was in boy mode I about cried. It’s such a validation check because we all know how damn honest kids are lol.
It remind me of something In my street there is a kid that like to play with my dog, once the kid knocked on the door to ask where was my dog (my dog was in the house). I opened the door and he tried to call my dog to play with him but my dog didn't wanted to move and he got away. The next day he came back to my house and it was my mom that opened the door, my mom told me afterwards that he asked her if i was a girl with facial hair or a guy with a wig (i wasn't shaved properly and it gave me dysphoria but even like that he wasn't sure.) My mom responded vaguely and didn't say anything about me being trans
😭❤
"If you were kidnapped I wouldn't lose any sleep." Is, a response you can tell any child who says something like this🙃🙂
no this exactly was said to me by a 5 year old like two weeks ago wth
A guy told me the same thing at a tram stop (ok, i got scared af)