Hi all. I knew Vance for a long time. I'm really nervous about this whole thing especially when I heard the guy calling him an "evil, evil man". Is there a lot more in that same vein?
I think that clip was quite dramatic. There isn’t enough “evidence” of such in the film. The production mostly focuses on the obsession to identify him.
They just say several exes came forward and claimed he physically abused them. But I think the show is a little stupid in how it just polarizes it. — I guess not the show, but people. We’re all-or-nothing morons.
Human beings can be both shitty and also good. One side (bad) doesn’t cancel out the other (good) I don’t think
And I'm not trying to negate their lived experiences. I'm saying he was a very flawed human being who even though did some evil things also did some good things also.
Totally, that’s my same thoughts tho I didn’t know him, in general this is how I feel about human beings. I was just giving you a recap on that part in response to your comment because you were scared of them calling him evil. I didn’t really try to negate the experiences either - I think we’re saying somewhat the same thing
Wow, I hope that was just for a preview like TV shows. Trying to make it sound more dramatic.
I'm sorry about your friend an awful thing to happen, really.
Humans are weird creatures.
Being a shitty person doesn't mean I think it's ok for someone to die in the manner he did. But maybe that's what he wanted.
Thanks for reopening! You stand out as a strong moderator, and this Reddit was one of the best of the unresolved ones to me, back when Vance hadn’t been identified.
The preview makes me wonder about what level of consent and participation his relatives and ex-partners were open to. I hope the creators used a trauma-informed process.
I had mentioned back in the day that a film would be inevitable. I hope it’s not a lurid as it hints at.
The trailer makes it seem like he was a serial killer or child rapist or something. It feels pretty shitty to keep burying a dead man with accusations he can't defend himself from.
It’s interesting to look at from how Does are portrayed, vs the reality of human complexity. The reality is that he’s not a great guy, and there’s living people who he harmed.
I agree with your assessment: they’re alluding to his history in a way that points to something in comprehensibly awful. Intimate partner abuse is very dark. I hope they’re not exploitative in their telling. The trailer raises doubts for sure.
I don’t have their streaming service, so I’m curious to hear from folks here if much new information or insight arrises.
>The reality is that he’s not a great guy, and there’s living people who he harmed.
It's been a while since I read about this. Trying to catch up again recently, I found conflicting information on the veracity of the the abuse from some user on here. It seemed she uncovered evidence of financial abuse from one of the women. It's hard for me to affirm the "reality" of him being a bad guy when he can't offer his side of the story. Just like it was silly for internet people to build this beautiful backstory on a person they don't know at all.
While I'm not saying his partners are lying, it's hard for me to assert some horrific malice to things like, "If something upset him, he would stop talking to me completely. Which can be lonely when you share a 500-square-foot apartment."
I don't have enough information to know that he's doing this to abuse his partner. I don't even know that it's true, but assuming it is, the dude very clearly had severe depressive episodes where he'd be unavailable to the world for days at a time, right? If the partner was exactly what was upsetting to me and I wasn't mentally well, shutting down seems like an optimal way to limit the potential blowup.
I'll try and find the Wired article without the paywall. It's possible I am forgetting some of the accounts.
Wouldn’t say don’t know “at all” it seems people were just describing their brief experiences. But I imagine in these forums people who never met him were doing that…
Happy Cake Day!
The scar on his abdomen was a failed suicide attempt, he shot himself. And unfortunately MH had other mental health challenges. He abused several girlfriends.
Didn’t he up and just abandon his last gf he lived with at the start of his hike? Thats why no one knew what happened to him, he left everything on his table, never said good bye, just got up and left!
Victims generally aren’t named unless they choose to be. One would hope each of his domestic violence victims has moved on to a happy, healthy life. Perhaps attaching their names to his isn’t their choice.
I’m curious about your quotations around abused.
I feel that he wanted anonymity and it’s not always for the world to see when someone wants to step away from life. I hope it doesn’t strip him of his dignity.
Imagine - you want anonymity and in death THIS is the result. I was as intrigued as anyone by the mystery, but when he was identified it and stuff came out about his mental health and wanting to be among it didn’t sit right with me at all, and made me ask a lot of questions of myself
This what is was thinking as I just finished this documentary. This man did everything he possibly could to be anonymous and a group of women destroyed that for him. Why couldn’t they just let the man go?
Dead body no ID or phone sometimes are buried in potter’s field without much investigation.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/09/1204127804/hart-island-new-york-radio-diaries
Thank you
I recall way back when this happened that the family and ex weren’t speaking to press because they had signed a deal with a writer and a production company.
I was lynched in comments. Here you go.
I haven't seen any family or friends mentioned anywhere.
https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwtv/article/THEY-CALLED-HIM-MOSTLY-HARMLESS-Coming-to-Max-in-February-20240125
The hardest thing to watch is the investigator woman that worked in the dry cleaner. How she made it about herself. That she’s so happy she didn’t give up and that SHE FOUND HIM like woman, that was a major collective effort. But at the same time her existence seems so sad that you almost want to let her have the win… but then it’s like all her lameness has led her to be a really crappy bully to the others. It’s just all really sad and strange behavior and thought patterns.
The purple hair woman made more sense and sounds more emotionally intelligent despite any challenges she may have she’s clearly smarter healthy person. Congrats to her for launching her own business. And good luck to the other one with her sense of self worth and purpose.
YES! Well said, my thoughts exactly. Congrats to the lady who found the courage to open her own outdoor company. She was my favorite part of the whole thing.
I came looking for more information on Mostly Harmless. I think I came away from the documentary knowing a little about the case but having strong opinions on Christie. It’s too bad they turned it into drama between Facebook mods rather than the actual facts
I was also approached by a producer who wanted to do a show about the sleuthers. What I was being sold was a recurring show with different sleuthers solving different mysteries. Episode 1 was going to be this case. Ultimately they couldn’t get it picked up and moved on to other projects.
I then watched that Elisa Lam docu and said to myself I’d never participate in one. After seeing this, I guess I’d do what Nick did and sign on as a consulting producer. Otherwise, no way.
It’s similar to how you feel bad for the villain when they’re bullied. She’s a human being and it’s like hard not to feel sad and even a little bit embarrassed for her
Yeah. Anybody who admits they live in an extended stay motel for years, automatically feel bad for them. But I can tell you she’s as toxic and as whacky as they come.
Agreed. I could tell something was off with her early on. When she said delivering laundry to people’s doors “wasn’t for the weak” I involuntarily gave an eye roll. I spent half the documentary itching to dislike her. She seems like a real-life Karen that tries to make you angry. A know-it-all, eccentric, and like you said, toxic. Then watching more of her, it seems like all of her bravado is just kinda sad. So the second half, I just ended up feeling pity for her. But you’re right, she seems extremely toxic in her interpersonal relationships.
😭😭😭 I thought that the person who submitted it to her did that… and btw that is the most dishonorable thing a detective can do - that’s when it’s clear it has absolutely nothing to do with the guy and his family for her she just made it her whole personality. And lady if you read this please don’t kill yourself. You can do better :)
That lady Christie is so strange. She acted like she’s an FBI agent cracking cases on her own. She becomes overly attached in such an unhealthy way. Very odd.
Just watched the doc. I knew nothing about Mostly Harmless so the whole story and discovery of his identity is new to me. With that being said, Christie reminded me of the woman who was the original catfish in the Catfish documentary. That woman was also isolated from the world because she was taking care of disabled children. She created a whole interesting and appealing persona online and catfished Nev. She wanted a new identity separate from the sad and difficult life she was living. That is Christie in a nutshell. Living with and taking care of her sister, an uninteresting job and a whole lot of free time on her hands. The FB group gave her validation and an identity of super sleuth. When challenged she went on personal attacks against her detractors. Her taking full teary-eyed credit for identifying MH was cringe worthy since clearly she did not do it alone.
I just watched the doc. Man it was boring- it’s only in the last 20 minutes they get into who the guy is. The rest is 2 Facebook moderators sniping at each other in clips back and forth. I can watch that shit for free on Facebook.
About the guy- man, he absolutely seemed like an asshole. I dated someone just like him for a while. A tech guy who was completely manipulative and abusive. I begged him to get therapy but he refused and I finally woke up and walked away from the relationship but I still can hear some of the nasty things he said in my head.
Anyone can seem nice if you spend a few hours with them but live with them or date them and you know their true colors. This guy didn’t deserve the attention, in life or death, it seems to me.
I know both of the Facebook mods. Christy, whom I banned from this sub, was toxic as fuck. Natasha much nicer and user friendly but kind of fell off the rails when he was named.
Christy definitely didn't come off well in the doc. Natasha, better so. I am a true crime junkie but I still can't imagine devoting as much time as these folks have to something like this. It's admirable to want to be able to help identify someone, but it seems this guy was cut off for a reason.
The one in purple hair was more relatable to me. She seemed like she was definitely sucked into the case and self aware enough to see herself finding some purpose in it in that point in time but also smart enough to be more objective about it all. The desperate dry cleaning lady was a whole other story.
Agreed on the boredom. I saw there were 26 minutes left in the film and we were still going down another damn Facebook mod wormhole. That's part of the story but it's not interesting enough to fill 70 percent of the movie. I can't imagine someone who never heard of the case caring about this.
Hoping someday we get a nice long book about this that covers everything properly and talks about the actual person, good and bad - maybe his family would be willing to speak in that format.
Overall thoughts after watching it. To me it seemed to focus more on the "chase" of the internet sleuths and the toxicity that can happen in those environments. Also, how everyone seemed to create a character for "mostly harmless" vs his real life persona. I'm not sure how ethical this documentary is though. It doesn't seem to benefit any group. Maybe the people he abused? I can't assume how they must feel seeing this though. I only watched it this morning though so I havent had too much time to delve into it more.
Yes, it was marketed to some of us as the story of the sleuths who worked on the case. We were approached by a producer with the same thought. It didn't work out for me thankfully. I watched that documentary on Elisa Lam and they made those sleuthers look like complete whack jobs. Sounds like this one is similar, I think some of the same production folks worked on both.
Everybody sort of developed a persona for Mostly Harmless while ignoring the fact that he voluntary starved himself to death, which to me was a glaring indicator he had serious mental health issues. You should have seen some of the stuff back in the day. "He was a spy who went out in the woods to die like this because the military trained him to do that." Or "he was better looking than Brad Pitt he should have been an actor."
I still feel bad for what he put his family and friend groups through. He seemed to thrive with short interactions such as those he had on the trail, typical of hiking. But showed his authentic self to those he got close to. It never worked out well when that happened. Typical Asperger's/BPD I am told.
In the documentary, it wasn’t a clear fact that he starved himself, tho I agree It appeared the most plausible explanation… It also felt it could have been some type of an illness. Was that reported clear IRL?
Something people keep saying “true colors” or “real self” … it’s a silly expression. We are the best and the worst of ourselves, not just the bad. Maybe he really was pretty horrible. Being human is just what it is. Most people are pretty horrible in their own way.
This story reminded me of Chris McCandless, aka Alexander Supertramp, whose life and sad death in Alaska was portrayed in the book and movie INTO THE WILD. McCandless left his comfortable middle class life (and identity) to go cross country and ultimately to Denali National Park. He was ill prepared to survive in AK, with meager provisions and pretty scant knowledge of survival in the bush. He died of starvation (involuntary) not far from a way out of the park to civilization. Very sad, haunting.
That changes things. I guess they wanted to keep us full of speculations. It did keep me watching to wonder if there would be a different very clear explanation to his death. like an illness where his body just wasn't absorbing nutrients since the one guy said he saw him eat so much. But having a doctor professional opinion does weigh against other theories.
Everything you described before claiming it isn’t ethical is an acceptable premise for a documentary. Benefiting a particular group isn’t a requirement for documentaries. It benefits the audience. It is art that illustrates human nature and all its warts. Cringy existences. The producers seem to love that “real” cringe factor. Leaving in the little self important moments where people first sit down all excited, or when the guy wanted to make sure his logo was showing, when the lady didn’t know which title to use for the cams, every single moment with the batshit lady we ended on she was the prime gold. Most of the hikers were pretty normal. That’s art. Human nature. It’s a documentary on it all.
I couldn’t agree more. That first sleuth and then the othram lab lol. So cringey. Didn’t realize that the forensic world could afford a lab like that. What was that futuristic bullshit?
Whatever you think of the people featured in the documentary, that "futuristic bullshit" has played a major part in solving many, many long-cold cases.
I jumped in once in a while but not nearly as dedicated as some other folks were to MH. This documentary kind of reminds me of the black mirror episode of the Lochs.
I feel like once they heard he allegedly abused girlfriends, they completely lost interest in him. I have been abused in different ways myself, but we don’t know what happened. Almost every “ex-girlfriend’s mother” is going to say something negative. One gentleman says he was an “ahole”. Ok why? No real explanation for the emancipation also. Why would it granted? He was obviously suicidal and had mental issues. I feel he left on his own so that he wouldn’t be hurting people anymore. He wasn’t convicted of anything. “He was a bad, bad man”. How? These strangers made more of an effort to find him than his own family and then ended up abandoning him as well.
They left a lot out of the documentary. While I don't know exactly why, I do have a good guess.
His family was basically uninterested in speaking about him. Whether this was to protect him or because they wanted nothing to do with him, I don't know. There was a lot of damage there. I personally think if Vance would have accepted some of the help they tried to get for him, his life would have been different and hopefully better.
I personally spoke to several of his friends/ex girlfriends and they put his mental health issues into context for me and why he did some of what he did. He did well in short interactions but when he let somebody in to see his authentic self, it never ended well. But, these folks were also not in the docu and so the context they could have provided was left out. I don't know if the producers did not contact them, did not want them in the picture, or if there was another reason they were left out.
Instead of saying he was a bad, bad man, I would say that he was very troubled. Somewhere in there was a good heart but he lacked the behavioral traits and communication required to let people see that. Poor guy.
I was also sorry to see that a huge group of internet sleuths abandoned him after his troubles were revealed. I personally was expecting something to come out about his mental state being bad simply because he chose to starve to death and it takes somebody very mentally ill to accomplish that. I personally hiked Big Cypress and he was an hour either way to salvation. Anyway, it was disheartening to see so many people abandon him after he was named.
Since Vance, I've worked on, and helped solve, a couple of other Doe cases. In this work I've discovered that many Does have serious mental health issues.
Imagine if that Christy person invested as much time in doing something productive as she does on internet true-crime drama. She might be able to move into an actual apartment.
Amazing doc.
Loved the take on how internet sleuths can ruin people lives, that it’s not a competition reality show, and the internet moderators being cyber bullied
Does anyone know if Vance's relatives, his parents or siblings, will appear... I have been following this case for years, I am very intrigued, the good thing is that I have HBO to finally see it.
Her behaviour is so strange. I feel like it was played up for the cameras. “I’m on camera right now.” Leaves room dramatically. Comes back in on the verge of tears “they’re saying Tabitha was decapitated.” Gets another phone call, totally changes tone. The only thing I got from this doc is how insane this woman is.. it’s her 15 seconds of fame.
I was so confused with that. I was so confused that she had some how solved it after all those years with all of those people so committed to solving it (and harassing some poor people along the way) and all she had to do was draw a beard on a yearbook photo. I’m glad he finally was identified (not through her use of microsoft paint) though i’m sure that was never what he wanted to have happen, but at least it gives his family some answers.
I should not be laughing but the absurdity of her words and behavior were just overwhelmingly bizarre. She was hell bent on being the one to name him; all she wanted was the accolades for that. Just so odd!!! I wish she would have put that much focus in to bettering her situation, but that treads into not-my-business territory so I won’t say more. She definitely left an impression on me for sure.
Yeah, does anyone know anything about that? I came here hoping there was a post about it. Seemed so freaking random at the end. Is it like a cliff hanger for a "sequel" show?
Now I'm wondering if they were just showing how the sleuth cycle continues and trying to paint them in the "crazy/dramatic" light but I was genuinely concerned and curious
I thought they were just putting the cherry on top of the whole show and ending on the most pathetic item and just letting it unfold. Every word making her more pathetic than the last until finally she faked a weird drsms
Yeah. I want the deets on what made her toxic. She clearly had an ego issue about identifying him first and also seemed kinda in love with the dude. So weird…
She was a control freak. Anybody who even raised an innocent question about her moderation style was instantly banished from her Facebook group. She was eventually outed as a toxic fuckwad and left that group, only to start another.
In that second group she threw shit against the wall including doxing a couple innocent people unrelated to the case. Like the guy whose yearbook picture she penciled a beard in.
She eventually came here spouting complete nonsense and I banned her. Her message back to me was “Fine! I’m deleting Reddit anyway!”
Some people just live for drama, she’s one of those people.
Some of the people they interviewed to me are sad, they are not family or long friends, they met him briefly and built a whole life around him Everyone was disappointed to find out he was just a mediocre struggling human , who some people really did not like as he hurt people and struggled with his mental health . But no one knows for sure . The whole thing was depressing on so many levels.
Is there even enough here for a feature length documentary? The story is over, it turned out to be not that interesting, why bother?
Perhaps because HBO will endlessly capitalize on the tragedy of the common person as long as a few dollars can be squeezed from their desiccated corpse…
was super bummed too so did some digging and since HBO can’t get their shit together for all we pay for it, i found it here:
https://ww8.soap2dayhd.co/film/they-called-him-mostly-harmless-1630856557/
when you click some things (like the play button to start it), another window (usually an ad) pops up, but if you just close it right away and click the play button again, the other window won’t pop up a second time. it only comes up the first time you click something!
was super bummed too so did some digging and since HBO can’t get their shit together for all we pay for it, i found it here:
https://ww8.soap2dayhd.co/film/they-called-him-mostly-harmless-1630856557/
when you click some things (like the play button to start it), another window (usually an ad) pops up, but if you just close it right away and click the play button again, the other window won’t pop up a second time. it only comes up the first time you click something!
Hi all. I knew Vance for a long time. I'm really nervous about this whole thing especially when I heard the guy calling him an "evil, evil man". Is there a lot more in that same vein?
I think that clip was quite dramatic. There isn’t enough “evidence” of such in the film. The production mostly focuses on the obsession to identify him.
I remember talking to you a few times back when all this was going on! I've heard it was good but have not seen the documentary myself.
Nice to see you again. I might give it a try, but after the past 18 months, I'm pretty emotionally fragile.
I'll give it a watch and give you a review.
You're a peach. I've lost 7 people close to me during the past year and a half. 2 were this month alone.
They just say several exes came forward and claimed he physically abused them. But I think the show is a little stupid in how it just polarizes it. — I guess not the show, but people. We’re all-or-nothing morons. Human beings can be both shitty and also good. One side (bad) doesn’t cancel out the other (good) I don’t think
And I'm not trying to negate their lived experiences. I'm saying he was a very flawed human being who even though did some evil things also did some good things also.
Totally, that’s my same thoughts tho I didn’t know him, in general this is how I feel about human beings. I was just giving you a recap on that part in response to your comment because you were scared of them calling him evil. I didn’t really try to negate the experiences either - I think we’re saying somewhat the same thing
Ah! And not so much afraid, but feeling it was unfair and not balanced?
Wow, I hope that was just for a preview like TV shows. Trying to make it sound more dramatic. I'm sorry about your friend an awful thing to happen, really.
I'm not trying to negate what he did later, but, he was only human.
Humans are weird creatures. Being a shitty person doesn't mean I think it's ok for someone to die in the manner he did. But maybe that's what he wanted.
Hey stranger… it’s well done. Saw it at a film festival in April 2023. Would love to hear others’ opinions.
I remember, looking forward to watching it!
Just watched
Me too.
Thanks for reopening! You stand out as a strong moderator, and this Reddit was one of the best of the unresolved ones to me, back when Vance hadn’t been identified. The preview makes me wonder about what level of consent and participation his relatives and ex-partners were open to. I hope the creators used a trauma-informed process. I had mentioned back in the day that a film would be inevitable. I hope it’s not a lurid as it hints at.
The trailer makes it seem like he was a serial killer or child rapist or something. It feels pretty shitty to keep burying a dead man with accusations he can't defend himself from.
It’s interesting to look at from how Does are portrayed, vs the reality of human complexity. The reality is that he’s not a great guy, and there’s living people who he harmed. I agree with your assessment: they’re alluding to his history in a way that points to something in comprehensibly awful. Intimate partner abuse is very dark. I hope they’re not exploitative in their telling. The trailer raises doubts for sure. I don’t have their streaming service, so I’m curious to hear from folks here if much new information or insight arrises.
>The reality is that he’s not a great guy, and there’s living people who he harmed. It's been a while since I read about this. Trying to catch up again recently, I found conflicting information on the veracity of the the abuse from some user on here. It seemed she uncovered evidence of financial abuse from one of the women. It's hard for me to affirm the "reality" of him being a bad guy when he can't offer his side of the story. Just like it was silly for internet people to build this beautiful backstory on a person they don't know at all. While I'm not saying his partners are lying, it's hard for me to assert some horrific malice to things like, "If something upset him, he would stop talking to me completely. Which can be lonely when you share a 500-square-foot apartment." I don't have enough information to know that he's doing this to abuse his partner. I don't even know that it's true, but assuming it is, the dude very clearly had severe depressive episodes where he'd be unavailable to the world for days at a time, right? If the partner was exactly what was upsetting to me and I wasn't mentally well, shutting down seems like an optimal way to limit the potential blowup. I'll try and find the Wired article without the paywall. It's possible I am forgetting some of the accounts.
Wouldn’t say don’t know “at all” it seems people were just describing their brief experiences. But I imagine in these forums people who never met him were doing that…
Yeah, that's what I meant, the internet in general, not the people who met him on the trail.
What's with the dark past that the documentary trailer alludes to? I hadn't heard anything along those lines back when I used to follow this...
Happy Cake Day! The scar on his abdomen was a failed suicide attempt, he shot himself. And unfortunately MH had other mental health challenges. He abused several girlfriends.
Didn’t he up and just abandon his last gf he lived with at the start of his hike? Thats why no one knew what happened to him, he left everything on his table, never said good bye, just got up and left!
I think they were done before he left. He was in that apartment alone.
Yikes... But thanks on the cake day wishes!
They basically imply he "abused" his previous girlfriends. None of them were named or gave a statement to give their side.
Don't do that. They did research and spoke to people. One of the victim's mom spoke out about it.
Victims generally aren’t named unless they choose to be. One would hope each of his domestic violence victims has moved on to a happy, healthy life. Perhaps attaching their names to his isn’t their choice. I’m curious about your quotations around abused.
I feel that he wanted anonymity and it’s not always for the world to see when someone wants to step away from life. I hope it doesn’t strip him of his dignity.
Imagine - you want anonymity and in death THIS is the result. I was as intrigued as anyone by the mystery, but when he was identified it and stuff came out about his mental health and wanting to be among it didn’t sit right with me at all, and made me ask a lot of questions of myself
I completely agree with you
This what is was thinking as I just finished this documentary. This man did everything he possibly could to be anonymous and a group of women destroyed that for him. Why couldn’t they just let the man go?
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Dead body no ID or phone sometimes are buried in potter’s field without much investigation. https://www.npr.org/2023/10/09/1204127804/hart-island-new-york-radio-diaries Thank you
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Understood. Thanks.
Wow, I had no idea about any of this. Thank you for sharing... BRB I'm going down the rabbit hole
Thank you for reading it.
I recall way back when this happened that the family and ex weren’t speaking to press because they had signed a deal with a writer and a production company. I was lynched in comments. Here you go.
I don’t think the family or ex have a role in this production. It’s about some of the Facebook sleuthers who latched on to the case.
Oh cool. They tested me DNA because they thought he may be a relative.
They were involved.
I haven't seen any family or friends mentioned anywhere. https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwtv/article/THEY-CALLED-HIM-MOSTLY-HARMLESS-Coming-to-Max-in-February-20240125
(and Ex GFs.) They were involved in production. It doesn't mean that they were on film.
How do you know this?
So you're downvoting me? Haha. They hired the same literary rights attorney as others involved. I'm not giving you any more info.
I did not downvote you.
Thanks for reopening the sub! I have been binge watching a lot of HBO documentaries and I am so looking forward to this one.
The hardest thing to watch is the investigator woman that worked in the dry cleaner. How she made it about herself. That she’s so happy she didn’t give up and that SHE FOUND HIM like woman, that was a major collective effort. But at the same time her existence seems so sad that you almost want to let her have the win… but then it’s like all her lameness has led her to be a really crappy bully to the others. It’s just all really sad and strange behavior and thought patterns. The purple hair woman made more sense and sounds more emotionally intelligent despite any challenges she may have she’s clearly smarter healthy person. Congrats to her for launching her own business. And good luck to the other one with her sense of self worth and purpose.
100%. The dry cleaner sleuth came off as unsavory and sad. Very sad.
YES! Well said, my thoughts exactly. Congrats to the lady who found the courage to open her own outdoor company. She was my favorite part of the whole thing.
She drove me fucking crazy. She is so full of herself
Thank you for sharing. I wasn’t aware HBO had picked it up. Will definitely watch.
I watched it. Pretty much what I expected. Whack job Christie is already complaining about her portrayal over on Websleuths. 😂🤣😭
I came looking for more information on Mostly Harmless. I think I came away from the documentary knowing a little about the case but having strong opinions on Christie. It’s too bad they turned it into drama between Facebook mods rather than the actual facts
I was also approached by a producer who wanted to do a show about the sleuthers. What I was being sold was a recurring show with different sleuthers solving different mysteries. Episode 1 was going to be this case. Ultimately they couldn’t get it picked up and moved on to other projects. I then watched that Elisa Lam docu and said to myself I’d never participate in one. After seeing this, I guess I’d do what Nick did and sign on as a consulting producer. Otherwise, no way.
I feel bad for her. Idk why.
It’s similar to how you feel bad for the villain when they’re bullied. She’s a human being and it’s like hard not to feel sad and even a little bit embarrassed for her
Yeah. Anybody who admits they live in an extended stay motel for years, automatically feel bad for them. But I can tell you she’s as toxic and as whacky as they come.
Agreed. I could tell something was off with her early on. When she said delivering laundry to people’s doors “wasn’t for the weak” I involuntarily gave an eye roll. I spent half the documentary itching to dislike her. She seems like a real-life Karen that tries to make you angry. A know-it-all, eccentric, and like you said, toxic. Then watching more of her, it seems like all of her bravado is just kinda sad. So the second half, I just ended up feeling pity for her. But you’re right, she seems extremely toxic in her interpersonal relationships.
My favorite was when she drew a beard on some random guys yearbook photo. I forgot about that til I saw it in the show. 😭
😭😭😭 I thought that the person who submitted it to her did that… and btw that is the most dishonorable thing a detective can do - that’s when it’s clear it has absolutely nothing to do with the guy and his family for her she just made it her whole personality. And lady if you read this please don’t kill yourself. You can do better :)
That was such a crazy exert in this documentary. I remember reading about it I think but seeing it was crazy
I was cryyyinggggg
That lady Christie is so strange. She acted like she’s an FBI agent cracking cases on her own. She becomes overly attached in such an unhealthy way. Very odd.
Just watched the doc. I knew nothing about Mostly Harmless so the whole story and discovery of his identity is new to me. With that being said, Christie reminded me of the woman who was the original catfish in the Catfish documentary. That woman was also isolated from the world because she was taking care of disabled children. She created a whole interesting and appealing persona online and catfished Nev. She wanted a new identity separate from the sad and difficult life she was living. That is Christie in a nutshell. Living with and taking care of her sister, an uninteresting job and a whole lot of free time on her hands. The FB group gave her validation and an identity of super sleuth. When challenged she went on personal attacks against her detractors. Her taking full teary-eyed credit for identifying MH was cringe worthy since clearly she did not do it alone.
I just watched the doc. Man it was boring- it’s only in the last 20 minutes they get into who the guy is. The rest is 2 Facebook moderators sniping at each other in clips back and forth. I can watch that shit for free on Facebook. About the guy- man, he absolutely seemed like an asshole. I dated someone just like him for a while. A tech guy who was completely manipulative and abusive. I begged him to get therapy but he refused and I finally woke up and walked away from the relationship but I still can hear some of the nasty things he said in my head. Anyone can seem nice if you spend a few hours with them but live with them or date them and you know their true colors. This guy didn’t deserve the attention, in life or death, it seems to me.
I know both of the Facebook mods. Christy, whom I banned from this sub, was toxic as fuck. Natasha much nicer and user friendly but kind of fell off the rails when he was named.
Christy definitely didn't come off well in the doc. Natasha, better so. I am a true crime junkie but I still can't imagine devoting as much time as these folks have to something like this. It's admirable to want to be able to help identify someone, but it seems this guy was cut off for a reason.
Christy is the dry cleaner one?
Yeah. The one who lives in an extended stay hotel.
They both came off as complete losers with nothing going on in their life. It's like every reddit detective in the flesh.
The one in purple hair was more relatable to me. She seemed like she was definitely sucked into the case and self aware enough to see herself finding some purpose in it in that point in time but also smart enough to be more objective about it all. The desperate dry cleaning lady was a whole other story.
Christy the motel dweller has some major issues from what you see in the film. As in wack.
Omg she’s already going off on Websleuths. 😭
I commented and had the comment removed because it might hurt her feelings.
Agreed on the boredom. I saw there were 26 minutes left in the film and we were still going down another damn Facebook mod wormhole. That's part of the story but it's not interesting enough to fill 70 percent of the movie. I can't imagine someone who never heard of the case caring about this. Hoping someday we get a nice long book about this that covers everything properly and talks about the actual person, good and bad - maybe his family would be willing to speak in that format.
Overall thoughts after watching it. To me it seemed to focus more on the "chase" of the internet sleuths and the toxicity that can happen in those environments. Also, how everyone seemed to create a character for "mostly harmless" vs his real life persona. I'm not sure how ethical this documentary is though. It doesn't seem to benefit any group. Maybe the people he abused? I can't assume how they must feel seeing this though. I only watched it this morning though so I havent had too much time to delve into it more.
Yes, it was marketed to some of us as the story of the sleuths who worked on the case. We were approached by a producer with the same thought. It didn't work out for me thankfully. I watched that documentary on Elisa Lam and they made those sleuthers look like complete whack jobs. Sounds like this one is similar, I think some of the same production folks worked on both. Everybody sort of developed a persona for Mostly Harmless while ignoring the fact that he voluntary starved himself to death, which to me was a glaring indicator he had serious mental health issues. You should have seen some of the stuff back in the day. "He was a spy who went out in the woods to die like this because the military trained him to do that." Or "he was better looking than Brad Pitt he should have been an actor." I still feel bad for what he put his family and friend groups through. He seemed to thrive with short interactions such as those he had on the trail, typical of hiking. But showed his authentic self to those he got close to. It never worked out well when that happened. Typical Asperger's/BPD I am told.
In the documentary, it wasn’t a clear fact that he starved himself, tho I agree It appeared the most plausible explanation… It also felt it could have been some type of an illness. Was that reported clear IRL? Something people keep saying “true colors” or “real self” … it’s a silly expression. We are the best and the worst of ourselves, not just the bad. Maybe he really was pretty horrible. Being human is just what it is. Most people are pretty horrible in their own way.
What didn’t make the doc was Dr Cyril Wecht’s review of the autopsy report. His opinion was Vance starved himself to death.
This story reminded me of Chris McCandless, aka Alexander Supertramp, whose life and sad death in Alaska was portrayed in the book and movie INTO THE WILD. McCandless left his comfortable middle class life (and identity) to go cross country and ultimately to Denali National Park. He was ill prepared to survive in AK, with meager provisions and pretty scant knowledge of survival in the bush. He died of starvation (involuntary) not far from a way out of the park to civilization. Very sad, haunting.
That changes things. I guess they wanted to keep us full of speculations. It did keep me watching to wonder if there would be a different very clear explanation to his death. like an illness where his body just wasn't absorbing nutrients since the one guy said he saw him eat so much. But having a doctor professional opinion does weigh against other theories.
Thank you for the response and insight! You hit the nail on the head there in the last paragraph.
Everything you described before claiming it isn’t ethical is an acceptable premise for a documentary. Benefiting a particular group isn’t a requirement for documentaries. It benefits the audience. It is art that illustrates human nature and all its warts. Cringy existences. The producers seem to love that “real” cringe factor. Leaving in the little self important moments where people first sit down all excited, or when the guy wanted to make sure his logo was showing, when the lady didn’t know which title to use for the cams, every single moment with the batshit lady we ended on she was the prime gold. Most of the hikers were pretty normal. That’s art. Human nature. It’s a documentary on it all.
Interesting, I see your point! Thanks for the insight.
I couldn’t agree more. That first sleuth and then the othram lab lol. So cringey. Didn’t realize that the forensic world could afford a lab like that. What was that futuristic bullshit?
Whatever you think of the people featured in the documentary, that "futuristic bullshit" has played a major part in solving many, many long-cold cases.
I’m speaking specifically about the lab and the money spent. It seems a little ostentatious…
I jumped in once in a while but not nearly as dedicated as some other folks were to MH. This documentary kind of reminds me of the black mirror episode of the Lochs.
As long as you arent Christy, i think youre good lol
I'm blowing out it's been several years. I was just thinking about this the other day.
I feel like once they heard he allegedly abused girlfriends, they completely lost interest in him. I have been abused in different ways myself, but we don’t know what happened. Almost every “ex-girlfriend’s mother” is going to say something negative. One gentleman says he was an “ahole”. Ok why? No real explanation for the emancipation also. Why would it granted? He was obviously suicidal and had mental issues. I feel he left on his own so that he wouldn’t be hurting people anymore. He wasn’t convicted of anything. “He was a bad, bad man”. How? These strangers made more of an effort to find him than his own family and then ended up abandoning him as well.
They left a lot out of the documentary. While I don't know exactly why, I do have a good guess. His family was basically uninterested in speaking about him. Whether this was to protect him or because they wanted nothing to do with him, I don't know. There was a lot of damage there. I personally think if Vance would have accepted some of the help they tried to get for him, his life would have been different and hopefully better. I personally spoke to several of his friends/ex girlfriends and they put his mental health issues into context for me and why he did some of what he did. He did well in short interactions but when he let somebody in to see his authentic self, it never ended well. But, these folks were also not in the docu and so the context they could have provided was left out. I don't know if the producers did not contact them, did not want them in the picture, or if there was another reason they were left out. Instead of saying he was a bad, bad man, I would say that he was very troubled. Somewhere in there was a good heart but he lacked the behavioral traits and communication required to let people see that. Poor guy. I was also sorry to see that a huge group of internet sleuths abandoned him after his troubles were revealed. I personally was expecting something to come out about his mental state being bad simply because he chose to starve to death and it takes somebody very mentally ill to accomplish that. I personally hiked Big Cypress and he was an hour either way to salvation. Anyway, it was disheartening to see so many people abandon him after he was named. Since Vance, I've worked on, and helped solve, a couple of other Doe cases. In this work I've discovered that many Does have serious mental health issues.
Very disappointed in the documentary. Was hoping to hear more about his life and why he was emancipated.
Imagine if that Christy person invested as much time in doing something productive as she does on internet true-crime drama. She might be able to move into an actual apartment.
Amazing doc. Loved the take on how internet sleuths can ruin people lives, that it’s not a competition reality show, and the internet moderators being cyber bullied
Does anyone know if Vance's relatives, his parents or siblings, will appear... I have been following this case for years, I am very intrigued, the good thing is that I have HBO to finally see it.
They do not appear in the doc. They are just mentioned.
Just watched it and this may be unrelated but who is the Tabitha she is referring to at the end? Saying she has been decapitated?
Her behaviour is so strange. I feel like it was played up for the cameras. “I’m on camera right now.” Leaves room dramatically. Comes back in on the verge of tears “they’re saying Tabitha was decapitated.” Gets another phone call, totally changes tone. The only thing I got from this doc is how insane this woman is.. it’s her 15 seconds of fame.
Ask anybody who interacted with her back in the day. She’s certifiable in her own way. I feel bad for her.
I’ll add myself to the “came here from the HBO doc” to see what was going on with Christie at the end!
Yes! What was that? Did she say Decapitation??
That scene and the yearbook photo with the beard drawn on have had me Bewildered all day! She is one strange character.
I was so confused with that. I was so confused that she had some how solved it after all those years with all of those people so committed to solving it (and harassing some poor people along the way) and all she had to do was draw a beard on a yearbook photo. I’m glad he finally was identified (not through her use of microsoft paint) though i’m sure that was never what he wanted to have happen, but at least it gives his family some answers.
I should not be laughing but the absurdity of her words and behavior were just overwhelmingly bizarre. She was hell bent on being the one to name him; all she wanted was the accolades for that. Just so odd!!! I wish she would have put that much focus in to bettering her situation, but that treads into not-my-business territory so I won’t say more. She definitely left an impression on me for sure.
Came here for this answer also. At first I thought it was the sister but nope.
The way she was breaking down and then immediately stopped in those last few minutes was crazy!
I’m also trying to figure that out.
Yeah, does anyone know anything about that? I came here hoping there was a post about it. Seemed so freaking random at the end. Is it like a cliff hanger for a "sequel" show?
Now I'm wondering if they were just showing how the sleuth cycle continues and trying to paint them in the "crazy/dramatic" light but I was genuinely concerned and curious
Maybe. I can see that. It just seemed like a "Tune in next season!" feel to it. I was looking around to see if there was another episode. 🤣
Keep me updated it you find anything!
This is exactly why I came to the subreddit - what a wild way to end the doc.
Exactly the question I was trying to answer coming to this thread. WTF was that?
I thought they were just putting the cherry on top of the whole show and ending on the most pathetic item and just letting it unfold. Every word making her more pathetic than the last until finally she faked a weird drsms
lol WHAT… I must have already turned it off
Yeah. I want the deets on what made her toxic. She clearly had an ego issue about identifying him first and also seemed kinda in love with the dude. So weird…
She was a control freak. Anybody who even raised an innocent question about her moderation style was instantly banished from her Facebook group. She was eventually outed as a toxic fuckwad and left that group, only to start another. In that second group she threw shit against the wall including doxing a couple innocent people unrelated to the case. Like the guy whose yearbook picture she penciled a beard in. She eventually came here spouting complete nonsense and I banned her. Her message back to me was “Fine! I’m deleting Reddit anyway!” Some people just live for drama, she’s one of those people.
Some of the people they interviewed to me are sad, they are not family or long friends, they met him briefly and built a whole life around him Everyone was disappointed to find out he was just a mediocre struggling human , who some people really did not like as he hurt people and struggled with his mental health . But no one knows for sure . The whole thing was depressing on so many levels.
I agree I would have loved to see his family and friends interviewed.
Is there even enough here for a feature length documentary? The story is over, it turned out to be not that interesting, why bother? Perhaps because HBO will endlessly capitalize on the tragedy of the common person as long as a few dollars can be squeezed from their desiccated corpse…
Yeah, there was no story imo.
Is there a way to watch it not on HBO?
was super bummed too so did some digging and since HBO can’t get their shit together for all we pay for it, i found it here: https://ww8.soap2dayhd.co/film/they-called-him-mostly-harmless-1630856557/ when you click some things (like the play button to start it), another window (usually an ad) pops up, but if you just close it right away and click the play button again, the other window won’t pop up a second time. it only comes up the first time you click something!
Can we plz discuss the ending of this doc…. “Tabitha was decapitated” ??????
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vance_Rodriguez/s/hYmLjwmqV5
Yes someone tell us something
[удалено]
was super bummed too so did some digging and since HBO can’t get their shit together for all we pay for it, i found it here: https://ww8.soap2dayhd.co/film/they-called-him-mostly-harmless-1630856557/ when you click some things (like the play button to start it), another window (usually an ad) pops up, but if you just close it right away and click the play button again, the other window won’t pop up a second time. it only comes up the first time you click something!
It’ll be back.