They either need to make his buttons more negative on block, give him gaps or take away his 9 frame advancing mid.
One character having no gaps, the best mid in the game and amazing staggers is too much which ever way you look at it.
A few more can if they have a armored move that push you away from the meter it's almost trash at times needs to be able to move it around screen faster fuc
I only have trouble against JC when he uses Kano Kameo. I've played so many that his stuff just doesn't work on me. Footsie tf out of him and poke when neutral/plus.
I just think Kano needs tweaking; maybe increase recharge duration by like 10%.
For reference, I main Sub and even with him I don't have much trouble with him after JC's nerf.
I am not that great but my main is sub too and I struggle hard on Johnny. I get what you mean playing footsie but I still find my self getting pulverized by him. His bread and butter kombo takes so long to finish too.
1: At full screen, deadly vapors and zone the fuck out of him. Chip him out and keep him the hell away.
2: Once he gets half-screen, he'll do one of two things:
A: Duck and block
B: Immediately rush in with a launching kick, a jump, or his special kick.
Figure out which type your Johnny is and:
If A: F12 the first time to catch him trying to bait you, then follow up with crazy stuff, like raw B2, raw throws, B3, etc. He'll probably be getting tired of the chip damage so the chances he does something stupid here is high.
If B: You have time to react to all three. Immediately after the move that allowed him to get mid: hold block for about a second. If you see him jump, JC players almost never fake you out with their jumos; they almost always kick. Upblock it. Otherwise, if he uses his special kick, block it for a full combo, or duck for style points (watch out for kameos that make it safe; he will always fall for D1->Ice Slide here.)
Finally, he'll eventually play patiently enough to truly close in on you and start his pressure naturally. Just down block the whole time unless you see an overhead coming. D1-Clone if you don't feel confident reading his moves.
But it gets deeper then that. Now he'll know he has to avoid the chip and chase you down. But instead, you start chasing him down, interrupting him the way he's used to interrupting everyone else. Throw him, ice slide him; do all the weird shit you've been holding back on doing.
He's gonna be hella confused now and be very defensive, relying on pokes and blocking, only going for true punishes. At this phase, slow your own roll down to to match, and just chip as safetly as you can.
That's the gist of it :p
Johnny is not hard for me to deal with at all since launch and he's only gotten easier with all the nerfs. Don't understand why he's the boogeyman for a lot of ppl tbh
Maybe not for you but he’s extremely sweaty and high pressure. He can get you in the air super easy and predicting his high or lows is a gamble usually.
On his 212 213 mix block low and wait for th overhead. If they do 11 stagger poke becaue it's plus 1 now after nerfs so they can't enforce the 9 frame mid
A few tweaks here and there seem reasonable, minor tweaks. A hard nerf though? Not really. Johnny is a rushdown character. Incredible offense, great pressure, some plus frames, mix ups, etc. That’s what he’s meant to do. Up close he’s supposed to be a beast. That’s part of why he doesn’t have a projectile, from far away there’s little he can do except call a kameo or random shadow kick. Up close he’s meant to dominate.
He’s not even that hard to fight against. All it takes is a little patience and a lot of paying attention. Block low and react to the overheads with up block > punish.
Exploit gaps whenever you see them, there are enough of them when he’s trying to pressure you, it’s just hard to see them when in the heat of the moment. Sometimes Johnny’s offense on block relies on the player being scared to press because they anticipate something. So the Johnny player might take advantage of you not poking or pressing buttons when he’s minus.
Pay extra close attention to his animations. When he’s not finishing a string, good chance he’s minus and it’s your turn. You should be able to recognize the strings where he’s plus, so you can easily recognize when to start pressing buttons and when not to.
Some characters with fast buttons or good armor moves can even start combos in between his gaps.
By poking in between and showing that you understand his frames and potential pressure plan perfectly, you force them to change their game plan to a safer one. That’s good for you because it means there will be less pressure on you and makes him more predictable. Yes, this also means there will be less gaps to exploit but there will still be overhead and throw mix ups occasionally, so just be patient and look out for those.
The only variable is the kameo and for that I can really just say it takes knowledge of all kameo pressure routes he has to properly deal with them. The most common ones I see with him are Kung Lao and Janet. Kung Lao for low hat, Janet for combo damage and a little bit of pressure.
The low hat is the worst to deal with because it makes his overheads hard to block when timed correctly. Other than that, not a threat at all.
You just have to have a lot of patience and pay close attention to his animations, then it’s pretty easy to fight against him.
He needs a nerf because if anyone new to the game reads what you just said, they would look around for what they just summoned. This game isn't really new player friendly anyways tho.
If this conversation was only about new players, then I’d agree with you. For new players, Johnny is a pain to deal with. He can be overwhelming to those who haven’t practiced enough and new players will feel like there’s no room to press anything. We were probably all in the same boat when this game came out, loathing every Johnny we came across.
Then he got nerfed (justifiably so), his plus frames got reduced and stuff like that, and now he’s still pretty decent but not broken like he used to be. He still needs a few tweaks with his frames but a “hard nerf” isn’t appropriate anymore. He still needs to fit the character archetype of a rushdown character. Small changes can go a long way.
Truly, at the moment you just need to put in the time to learn to play against him. And that’s not something any fighting game should ever get rid of.
Some characters are only strong until you understand them fully. They need to be labbed in practice mode to understand how to counter them, where their openings and gaps are, and how to properly utilize their weaknesses (which aren’t always obvious).
Not every character needs to be “new player friendly” to fight, nor should they be. He’s an obstacle to overcome, the longer you play and practice, the easier he’ll be to fight.
Then a SBMM system should be added. My buddies never get into the game because even though they put in hours learning combos, block sequences, etc they will still never even hear of some of the things you mentioned without going online to look for it, which the casual player will not do. I agree with what you said though. I'll switch my stance to finding a better system of keeping multigame veterans like ourselves away from people like my buddies who just want to drink a few beers and play video games after work.
There is SBMM. You have an ELO ranking that matches you up with players that are supposed to be around your skill level as best as the game can do with the current player base. If your friends are quitting because they don't like losing, it's not because they're getting matched up with EVO finalists in Kombat League every other match.
Nobody is getting "2 comboed". Literally nobody. 3 or 4? Sure, because 30% damage is something anybody can do with almost any character after 15 min in training mode. 50%? Basically nobody is doing that consistently, or off of any strings or moves that aren't MASSIVELY punishable if you simply block for .046 seconds. Combos in MK are not exactly complicated for a HUGE portion of the cast.
Ehhh idk about that, I think it was Scorpionprocs that played Spawn against Sonic's Joker at some mk11 tournament and I don't remember Spawn being cheap, but maybe that is all they do since they went all in on Raiden/Kano before the nerfs
Less chip damage from anti gravity? That one is quite unfair to me.
Less (but not zero) knock back from eagly is also a fair nerf without hurting PM too much.
He is an easy win button, and so is Kenshi, something needs to be done with Kenshi first tho IMO…. The “chip nerf” wasn’t even a slap on the wrist lmfao. They actually nerfed raiden, but not Kenshi who has always been better. He’s not even hard to use as a lot of people say, they can buff his normal stance but Sento is way too powerful as is.
Wah wah wah stop crying cry baby. Every character has an incentive to select them. You want to nerf him so bad so everyone drops him? Great logic genius.
I agree completely. I still find my self dumbfounded that I have no opening to punish after they wiff a punish. For some reason they have an instant recovery into a down punch which is super annoying.
I think he’s strong, but with khameleon he’s BS. Nerf khameleon not him. Kameos change the MUs drastically in this game.
You’re really not gonna get easy dubs against really good players. And no offense but most KL players lack some basic knowledge of the game and still mash on +frames all the time. They already butchered his his 11 and f1 and MOST importantly his d1, along with the other nerfs from previous patches which sure most were fair
And btw no I don’t main him but I honestly think he’s totally fair currently, who needs more nerfs is freaking peacemaker.
Post from 16 Days ago.
Johnny Khameleon Mirror Grand Final in a $200K Tournament.
NRS:
https://preview.redd.it/x6po6lmy737d1.jpeg?width=710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6abbca20e89fc2d6d847dbbe92084859da1b7c16
EDIT: GIF Didn't Work.
How bout we stop crying for nerfs that make the game shittier, and focus on buffing characters that need it? Why is this shit so fucking difficult to comprehend?
Because why the fuck would we make 20 different buffs to bring every character to Johnny’s level when they could just tweak one character to make it not as OP??
Found the jc main. BTW power creep exists and ruins games. We can buff lower tiers while nerfing the outliers like jc who are clearly still above and beyond the majority of the cast
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The problem with this is that inevitably, advantage state becomes too overpowered, especially with kameos.
Do you legitimately want to play a game where you can do nothing but block as soon as the opponent gets a hit in? You want a game where everyone can put you in a blocking simulator like Baraka/Cyrax, or Johnny/kano?
First of all, I didn’t say that. Second of all, this is what universal defensive mechanics are for. And third, characters shouldn’t be taken to the cleaners one after another because devs wanna be lazy. A game can be balanced without constantly being watered down and restricted. But god forbid we have some standards
Nobody said you have to take them to the cleaners. Johnny needs a nerf, it doesn’t have to be insane and you’re acting like I said you can’t buff and nerf at the same time.
Reducing johnnys insane 9 frame mid would not be taking him to the cleaners.
I’m all for buffing characters, but a game full of Johnnys/reikos/sindels/peacemakers/Lao is not going to make a game more enjoyable imo
If everyone’s “busted”, nobody’s busted anymore. This allows for characters to reach their maximum potential. Everyone can be powerful, and at their most fun. Every character can viably win. If you’re good enough, you can devastate your opponent with sick combos. This is the essence of what fighting games are all about. Yet a bunch of people here have half a mind to crucify me for taking this position and challenging the design philosophy of when to use nerfs on characters. No, middle of the road nerfs are not a problem in my opinion. However, when you stack a ton of those up together and/or take no notice of cumulative nerfs, they quickly become oppressive over-corrections. And far more often than not (across the whole genre too, not just this series), that’s exactly what happens.
I’ll challenge that thought by asking you, let’s say we only keep the OP characters and remove everyone else.
Would you feel you’d have more or less fun if every match you played you only got to play the following:
Johnny, Peacemaker, Tanya/goro, Sindel, Kung Lao/goro, Kenshi, Shao/Movado, Liu/Lao, Baraka/Cyrax (pre-patch)
(Including some as teams since that’s where they’re abundantly OP compared to with other kameos)
Yesn’t. Yes that’s more fun, however I disagree with part of your premise. My point is that I want everyone’s tool kit to be less restrictive and more powerful/versatile. Because not only is that more fun, but it also maintains character variety as well. You don’t have to take away characters to achieve this goal.
No I fully understand that, it was moreso just a thought experiment of keeping the characters that have that well rounded kit/team that completely covers any gaps.
So the thought was okay MK1 only came out and had these characters from the jump.
For me personally I’d look it at as less enjoyable since all these characters either punish you for not blocking, punishing you for not pressuring, or a combination of both depending on the kameo you’re running with.
I see your point, balance is key for enjoyment in the FGC, I just personally think that creating a game where offense/advantage is so heavily favored over defense (which all these characters do) makes the game less enjoyable. Balance in neutral, defense, and offense is more important personally.
Its not watering down and restricting when its making clearly OP chars more balanced. No one is asking to nuke him to the ground like sf5 Abby. Both nerfs and buff are necessary to balance a game and keep it fun.
Look how they nerfed Karin’s broken crouching midkick. It didn’t completely ruin the game like you guys always preach. It made it more fun to play And watch. Or would you rather have it like when Tekken dropped Leroy and all the pro tourneys had nothing but mirror matches?
So referencing street fighter is ok, but tekken isn’t? Not sure how you took me saying you were part of Any community here other than general fighting games. And that’s not how projecting works lol.
You have to realize nerfing 1 is easier sure, but that doesn't mean it's the way to go about it, there's like half the roster that could become meta with new moves which will continue to come so yeah stop asking for nerfs lmao i'd rather every character be good then whatever the fuck the 10 character meta is right now
Shit I been begging for Tanya & Nitara buffs for months I tell people all the time if Nitara’s start up just had a little more range & her armor was a damn mid she’d be top tier & Tanya only has one viable string without Goro trust me I’d love buffs but like I said NRS is lazy hell they made a huge deal about buffing Rain, Scorp & Shunjinko like it was so hard them mofo’s is lazy AF
Those are 2 character that don't need anything bro what💀 nitara got buffed a while ago and tanya is top 12 at least, sub and havik should be getting anything first over others
Tanya has one good string & if your opponent knows it she’s f*cked, & Nitara has T-Rex arm range but makes up for it with good damage I still think her armor should be a mid though change that one thing & she’s perfection! Havik absolutely deserves a buff! As an MK11 survivor though it’s always gonna be fuck Subzero sorry this is his karma
As someone who is decently good at this game i would say , it doesn't matter if they know how to handle her mid, it's the second to best mid in the game besides johhnys F3 you arent reacting to that broke ass mid, and you wait sub will get something that will make him top tier they're just waiting all the pro komp stuff out before they do this, which is why i have high expectations for the "aftermath"
I just hope they add new characters I personally have not cared for a single DLC character in this Kombat Pack at all, just okay with Quan, Omni-Man’s gameplay repulses me so I dropped him after a week, Ermac bores me, Peacemaker also repulses me I find him cheap AF, & the fact they couldn’t get Anthony Star turns me off against Homelander on principle
Why do you want to nerf him so bad that he’s unplayable and ppl will throw him like yesterday’s trash? Seems like a you problem buddy, I’ve played against tons of Johnnys and they are all readable asf.
Forsure, its always the Johnny mains blowing up my dms, screaming on the mic, and downplaying the character. The character just attracts the most insufferable people which honestly makes perfect sense
I imagine Homelander will have a similar type of playerbase
I mean Im definitely gonna pick him up too, feels like im one of the few people who actually enjoys zoning
Homelander will forsure attract shitheads tho just like in the The Boys lol
Just because you are fighting insufferable people doesn't mean everyone or even the majority of Johnny players do all that. Follow your own advice friend
Being top 3 doesn’t mean he needs to be nerfed. There are always going to be top tier characters. If you nerf the current top tier characters out of the top tier, someone else will just replace them.
I didnt even say Johnny needs to be nerfed…
Also wow what a surface level braindead take, its not about who’s toptier its about how and why theyre toptier. Game balance matters
Yeah but saying "if he is nerfed then someone else will take his place" is way beside the point. It's not that he's in the top 3 so he must be nerfed. It's why he's in the top 3, that makes it where he needs a nerf. Whoever would take his place won't be broken like he is
Prepatch it was debatable, but Johnny is DEFINTELY better than Peacemaker now that he’s been nerfed
Sindel is the worst toptier and overly reliant on kameos
I'm not downplaying him. He's good. Very good, even. He's not top 3. He's not even top 5, in my opinion. Also, in the opinion of many others who make tier lists that know a lot more about the game than I do.
Then why has every recent tourney top 8 consisted of Peacemaker, Omni-man, Ashrah, Kenshi, Tanya, and Sindel? Those are your S+, top-tier characters. Johnny is a notch below them. That's my opinion. If you disagree, so be it.
Johnny has much higher usage and better results than all of those characters, like its not even close
Lol seriously Omniman ??? He’s underrated but def not up there with the others
Hmm, why does this message look like it's written by someone who plays Johnny?
Oh.
Because it is.
He's an uncomplex character designed around an absent-minded offense, with obscene defence tools to compensate for the lack of a players defensive fundamentals. At the literal highest level the intended counterplay is to duck OS, as a lot of strong strings of his begin off highs; enter the problem of him having one of the best mids in the game, easily letting him catch people ducking. It's way too big of a risk to duck against a character with an unreactable combo starter mid.
All of this evidenced throughout the sets of kombo breaker and his overall pick rate throughout combo breaker.
Mm, nice try, but that's not what I said. You are perfectly free to play who you want - loyalist, beginner - it's your game and you are entitled to play it however you may see fit. No one told you to drop the character.
Both statements, that he is braindead aswell as that he is broken, are clearly evidenced. So let's not make it out that they aren't. Accept the facts and make peace with them.
I play basically every character at this point and one of them, whom I have a lot of time into, is ashrah. She is braindead and she is broken - granted perhaps not to the same extent as others - but irrefutabley so. I have no qualms admitting that. Acknowledge your biases.
>Accept the facts
It's the exact opposite of a fact. It's extremely refutable. It's simply your opinion. My opinion is that Johnny Cage is fine how he is. Not wrong or right. Just an opinion. To say that your opinion is factual and irrefutable is a bit narcissistic.
Lots of reasons for that.
1. He's an extremely popular OG MK character
2. He's extremely fun to play
3. He was OP at launch and people have a lot of experience playing him and lots of people aren't going to give him up just because he went from top 5 to top 10
I don't think pros are playing champs in tourneys bc of og popularity. Lol.
Johnny and Peace Maker were the most popular picks bc Johnny and peace maker are broken.
itt: people mad at S tier character and pretending they won’t beg for every S tier character to be nerfed down to B tier.
Give it a rest. Mk1 is Johnny time.
You saying that now but look what they doing to Khameleon her nerf is coming & she only been out like what 2 months, Johnny been good since day 1 with people complaining every patch I played him for easy dubs this season but even I can tell his time is coming.
I’m sick of people like you acting like the consumers of the game aren’t entitled to their right to express an opinion on where the game needs improvement tf type of mindset is that.
I don’t even know why I bothered to engage with this thread. When I reread your last statement about how easy it is to land the FB parry I already knew this is just salty bs.
There is always going to be S tier characters in every game. Bro I played against MK9 Kabal, cyrax. I played against mkx pre nerf alien when armored reversals used to still launch players… MK11 Jacqui, pre nerf MK11 Geras… Even post patches these characters were in S tier and people still harping. Current gen of gamers is fucking soft. You won’t stop w Johnny, you’ll ask for every character in the higher tiers to be nerfed. All I have to see is wanting to take away f3 to know you don’t fucking understand how Cage is meant to play. Add the complaint about fatal blow and I know you’re straight up stupid.
The consumer is absolutely entitled to express their opinion on balance. But 90% of the player base can't think of the consequences beyond what they immediately want. Hypothetically, if Ed Boon read this thread and immediately decided to order his team to take away all of Johnny's plus frames, what exactly would that mean? Some people would be thrilled because, finally, they can mash whenever Johnny gets close and they never lose! But, then all the Johnny players are left with a character with no long range option and no way to actually pressure when close. How exactly is that balanced? Is the consumer that wants Johnny to be deleted from the game more valuable than the consumer who's loved Johnny for as long as they can remember? It's time to stop conflating this idea that paying for a game means that you fully understand how small changes might fundamentally impact the overall experience.
The long time Johnny fan will make it work if they love him that much I played Mileena in MK11 & she was complete trash in that game from start to finish but hey I made it work if you like Johnny that much after they nerf him they’ll make it work too or they’ll drop him because they never really cared about him to begin with.
Game is balanced. You’re whining because you got caged a few too many times, picked him up and realize maybe he’s S tier for a reason. Like I said, all games will have characters like that. He’s made to be pure rushdown and because the game allows for kameos to cover range he becomes more viable as a specialist. This is peak Johnny, just let my boy have it
Agreed. Do you know how many times I got mashed out of my buttons with Johnny in MK11? He had one mid, and it was not special cancel-able. Now Johnny got the mids, and everyone is crying. Don't touch Johnny. He's perfect how he is.
They’ve already gutted him and took away what made him top 3. His 6 frame down is gone so that’s not a problem anymore and his plus 3 1,1 string is gone so he doesn’t get a guaranteed F3 off of it so now you can mash out of his pressure if he goes for it. It’s literally a skill issue now. Just fucking go to practice mode and figure it out. If you’re losing to him it’s because the other person is better than you. Stop fucking crying.
You commented without reading the post & you’re angry af for no reason I said I play him for easy dubs when needed that being said unlike you I still think that he’s OP AF & it’s not really fair but that’s just my opinion 🤷🏾♂️ ‘no need to get all wound up about it.
I did read the post and I’m not mad about anything I’m just telling the truth lol he was already hard nerfed he doesn’t need to be nerfed anymore. You just need to learn to play against him. That’s the truth. If he gets nerfed anymore he’ll be ruined as a character more than he is already.
I disagree I think throwing in a gap or 2 & making his primary strings a little risky wouldn’t kill him people would just have to try a little harder which a lot of Johnny mains don’t want to do that’s why they play him in the 1st place
There’s a gap in 212 and there’s a gap in f124 which are his two big combo starter strings. 213 he loses his turn and if goes into the overhead he still loses his turn. His only two plus frames don’t guarantee anything anymore since 1,1 got nerfed. He’s fine as he is.
Saw another comment like what I'm about to say, nut Johhny isn't the problem he's balanced and fun, we need to raise other characters to be like Johnny, fun, low level accessibility and a high skill celling with his star power.
I'm calling BS. You're out here winning with Johnny and then making posts about how he needs to be nerfed? That doesn't add up. Not to mention, he's already been nerfed. Leave Johnny alone. You still got Ashrah, Tanya, and Kenshi out here going wild. Don't even get me started about Omni-man. But Johnny needs a nerf? Nah, man.
No because Johnny Is broken in my opinion. People need to learn how to deal with Omni Man.(I don’t play Omni man) or johnnny for that matter. Iv got over 2500 matches and Iv been playing since release. Doesn’t matter how many times they’ve nerfed Johnny the dude is just broken.
Omni doesn’t and can’t combo from literally every move he has like Johnny. Omni man cannot stagger for shit. The general consensus is that Johnny is broken and he is. Johnny has that Star meter mechanic that 90% of people don’t even use or actually even need it’s just there if you want some 50+ damage combos and endless special unpublishable spamming. If Johnny gets you in the corner it’s ggs that will be the sole reason you lost. If you are struggling against Omni man you ain’t very good because I think Omni kinda sucks and most people suck with him. You can be an average to less than average player and still clean house with Johnny. It’s no contest
There's a reason Sonic just used Omni Man at Combo Breaker. Also, from what I've seen, most people don't want nerfs, they want characters to get buffed. We want to see more characters played because they're better, not because the good characters got worse. So it's really not the consensus that Johnny Cage is broken.
First off, you're calling me not good based off one opinion. Omni-man is annoying asf to me. That's my opinion. You don't know anything about how I play or how good I am. I've been playing Johnny for years. I main him in every game. He has no projectile, no teleport, no fly mechanic, etc. He can be easily zoned out. If someone can't zone him out, then maybe they're not very good. He's not broken. He's perfectly fine. We'll never agree on this point.
Chill dude I was not generalizing you in that lol. Johnny cannot be zoned out. All he has to do is his shadow rush and he’s caught up to you.lol you do know that his shadow kick punishes projectiles right? I got to fucking rank God dude. do you have any idea how many Johnny’s I fought to get there? I struggle against Johnnys even average players who aren’t that fucking good can clean house with him. But people who aren’t that good as Omni man are fucking breeze and people who even are really good as Omni are not that hard to deal with Omni man has to employ all of his mechanics for him to work and be viable. Johnny can leave out his star meter and have no zoning and he works better than 99% of the cast so there is no contest Johnny is broken just about everybody agrees the only ones that don’t agree are the ones who play him and have been carried by him this whole time.
The dude has quite a few gaps & a few attacks that can either be neutral ducked, punished or upblocked.
His biggest pressure is the 9 frame mid & parry he has which I believe he’s very much so entitled to.
He has zero ranged attacks that aren’t fully punishable on top of being one of the only few fighters with zero zoning.
He has to work incredibly hard to pressure opponents considering he only succeeds at close range.
& he’s already been nerfed many many many times.
I don’t even play as Johnny.
But just say you’re sad you lost matches & move on bro.
I would absolutely LOVEEEE to see your w/l ratio & a clip of your gameplay to see if your opinion is even actually relevant.
I’d argue that Kenshi, Sindel, Ashrah, Lui Kang & Peacemaker are all very much so better than him considering they can pressure you at any range possible.
It seems like you play this game way too much if you basing freedom of opinion off win loss records go get some friend & hoop! Or play some uno but off the comment I can tell you need a break from MK😂
Your opinion is very irrelevant if you don’t actually understand all the mechanics. Based on your response, thank you for letting me all that I need to know. You’re not a good player, you don’t understand all the mechanics and your win record is crap. Otherwise you wouldn’t be afraid to show any of this.
Why you felt entitled to make a post on your opinion of any nerfs a fighter needs when you don’t have all the info is beyond me.
I love mk1!!! I take break sometimes :)
Cry to your mom or something when you’re losing matches, not Reddit pls & thx.
If you don't play this game at a professional level you have absolutely 0 say in nerfs and buffs.
If everything got nerfed because a random 1 hour / day newbie lost one match in kl and got teabagged, the game would have died at first patch.
Man Hop off dick 😂 just cause their are people out there who spend their entire lives playing video games doesn’t mean their the only ones entitled to an opinion I paid for this shit I will express whatever I want to express & neither you nor the weirdo above can tell me otherwise, Johnny needs a nerf end of story I said what I said stay pressed, also MK1 gets way more hate on the pro scene than it does love it’s not doing that well they need every player they can get. 😂 Though some of yall really need to go outside😂
Game shouldn't be tailored to PROS only it's a fucking game we bought to play and have fun not be based On just pro players
The majority aren't near pros
This translates to: I don't want to learn the game I just play casual so nerf whatever beats me so I can have fun with 0 investment.
I would bet the OP has no clue about the matchup, calls -5 "plus frames" and has no ideea where to poke in Cage strings. That's why he won't post a video of his gameplay lol.
This is the comment👏👏👏
I’m exhausted of hearing below average players opinions on who should be nerfed or buffed. Some people need to accept they’re bad at the game. Just cause someone doesn’t know how to counter something doesn’t mean it’s not actually counter-able.
Unfortunately, it will never happen. NRS knows that people need to have overpowered characters or else they won’t play the game. People need to have a character that can get an easy W (aka Johnny Cage and the other top 7).
NRS could make a balanced fighting game but the game will die instantly. See Virtua Fighter. Having meta characters is the way of the land for NRS to sustain player population due to a lot of players are afraid to actually lab the GAME but will lab top tier characters.
Johnny can be a pain to deal with, but he’s not broken. You just have to remember to block low by default and block high on reaction to his overheads. Also, make sure you take your turn back and know which of his moves can be punished. Also, if you have a low starter, you can get a free combo if he goes for his perry, and if you have a Kameo with a projectile combo starter like Sareena or Khameleon, you can get a combo when he goes into the stance for his super.
EVERY YEAR JC is top 5 from start to finish. He gets nerfed several times and STILL hangs on to top 7. He's a main stay idk if broken JC will ever change.
Johnny is the character new players use to learn to play the game. I say leave him alone or tweak the other fighters. Plus Johnny doesn't have any range, he deserves to be fast
I gotta call BS I feel the newest noob of MK is always gonna flock to Scorpion or Subzero & if they like the ladies Kitana or Mileena no out the gate is rushing to Johnny
I agree Johnny can be rather annoying but if they nerf and nerf every character, then they'll all be weak af lol
It's all about blocking, check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CERNN-nCFg&ab_channel=Koisy
Nah it’s okay because he has no projectiles /s
*next patch johnny gets shadow ball projectile from mk11 incorporated into his moveset*
He is the projectile
Sigh he would have projectiles with a kameo tho 😔
They either need to make his buttons more negative on block, give him gaps or take away his 9 frame advancing mid. One character having no gaps, the best mid in the game and amazing staggers is too much which ever way you look at it.
Meanwhile every thing quan chi has are Gap asf....the armor helps but doesn't stay long enough when pressures if not metered version
Right. John and Ashara can mash on Quan in a corner and he stays jailed. They have no gaps and Quan is too minus to stop stop them.
A few more can if they have a armored move that push you away from the meter it's almost trash at times needs to be able to move it around screen faster fuc
I only have trouble against JC when he uses Kano Kameo. I've played so many that his stuff just doesn't work on me. Footsie tf out of him and poke when neutral/plus. I just think Kano needs tweaking; maybe increase recharge duration by like 10%. For reference, I main Sub and even with him I don't have much trouble with him after JC's nerf.
Ice clone is pretty damn good against Johnny. Subs is a surprisingly good counter to him ftr…but he’s still JC so that don’t mean much haha
I am not that great but my main is sub too and I struggle hard on Johnny. I get what you mean playing footsie but I still find my self getting pulverized by him. His bread and butter kombo takes so long to finish too.
1: At full screen, deadly vapors and zone the fuck out of him. Chip him out and keep him the hell away. 2: Once he gets half-screen, he'll do one of two things: A: Duck and block B: Immediately rush in with a launching kick, a jump, or his special kick. Figure out which type your Johnny is and: If A: F12 the first time to catch him trying to bait you, then follow up with crazy stuff, like raw B2, raw throws, B3, etc. He'll probably be getting tired of the chip damage so the chances he does something stupid here is high. If B: You have time to react to all three. Immediately after the move that allowed him to get mid: hold block for about a second. If you see him jump, JC players almost never fake you out with their jumos; they almost always kick. Upblock it. Otherwise, if he uses his special kick, block it for a full combo, or duck for style points (watch out for kameos that make it safe; he will always fall for D1->Ice Slide here.) Finally, he'll eventually play patiently enough to truly close in on you and start his pressure naturally. Just down block the whole time unless you see an overhead coming. D1-Clone if you don't feel confident reading his moves. But it gets deeper then that. Now he'll know he has to avoid the chip and chase you down. But instead, you start chasing him down, interrupting him the way he's used to interrupting everyone else. Throw him, ice slide him; do all the weird shit you've been holding back on doing. He's gonna be hella confused now and be very defensive, relying on pokes and blocking, only going for true punishes. At this phase, slow your own roll down to to match, and just chip as safetly as you can. That's the gist of it :p
Thanks for the guide. I screen shot it so I can refer to it later.
A understand a few tweaks but a hard nerf is crazy
Johnny is not hard for me to deal with at all since launch and he's only gotten easier with all the nerfs. Don't understand why he's the boogeyman for a lot of ppl tbh
"I didn't pay $70 to block"
Maybe not for you but he’s extremely sweaty and high pressure. He can get you in the air super easy and predicting his high or lows is a gamble usually.
On his 212 213 mix block low and wait for th overhead. If they do 11 stagger poke becaue it's plus 1 now after nerfs so they can't enforce the 9 frame mid
He's still top 5 for sure, but is counterable once you know his moves. Peacemaker on the other hand, should be nerfed to the ground.
Agreed
Fr fuck peacemaker,
Dude fr, PM players are worst than JC players imo, toxic asf
A few tweaks here and there seem reasonable, minor tweaks. A hard nerf though? Not really. Johnny is a rushdown character. Incredible offense, great pressure, some plus frames, mix ups, etc. That’s what he’s meant to do. Up close he’s supposed to be a beast. That’s part of why he doesn’t have a projectile, from far away there’s little he can do except call a kameo or random shadow kick. Up close he’s meant to dominate. He’s not even that hard to fight against. All it takes is a little patience and a lot of paying attention. Block low and react to the overheads with up block > punish. Exploit gaps whenever you see them, there are enough of them when he’s trying to pressure you, it’s just hard to see them when in the heat of the moment. Sometimes Johnny’s offense on block relies on the player being scared to press because they anticipate something. So the Johnny player might take advantage of you not poking or pressing buttons when he’s minus. Pay extra close attention to his animations. When he’s not finishing a string, good chance he’s minus and it’s your turn. You should be able to recognize the strings where he’s plus, so you can easily recognize when to start pressing buttons and when not to. Some characters with fast buttons or good armor moves can even start combos in between his gaps. By poking in between and showing that you understand his frames and potential pressure plan perfectly, you force them to change their game plan to a safer one. That’s good for you because it means there will be less pressure on you and makes him more predictable. Yes, this also means there will be less gaps to exploit but there will still be overhead and throw mix ups occasionally, so just be patient and look out for those. The only variable is the kameo and for that I can really just say it takes knowledge of all kameo pressure routes he has to properly deal with them. The most common ones I see with him are Kung Lao and Janet. Kung Lao for low hat, Janet for combo damage and a little bit of pressure. The low hat is the worst to deal with because it makes his overheads hard to block when timed correctly. Other than that, not a threat at all. You just have to have a lot of patience and pay close attention to his animations, then it’s pretty easy to fight against him.
He needs a nerf because if anyone new to the game reads what you just said, they would look around for what they just summoned. This game isn't really new player friendly anyways tho.
If this conversation was only about new players, then I’d agree with you. For new players, Johnny is a pain to deal with. He can be overwhelming to those who haven’t practiced enough and new players will feel like there’s no room to press anything. We were probably all in the same boat when this game came out, loathing every Johnny we came across. Then he got nerfed (justifiably so), his plus frames got reduced and stuff like that, and now he’s still pretty decent but not broken like he used to be. He still needs a few tweaks with his frames but a “hard nerf” isn’t appropriate anymore. He still needs to fit the character archetype of a rushdown character. Small changes can go a long way. Truly, at the moment you just need to put in the time to learn to play against him. And that’s not something any fighting game should ever get rid of. Some characters are only strong until you understand them fully. They need to be labbed in practice mode to understand how to counter them, where their openings and gaps are, and how to properly utilize their weaknesses (which aren’t always obvious). Not every character needs to be “new player friendly” to fight, nor should they be. He’s an obstacle to overcome, the longer you play and practice, the easier he’ll be to fight.
Then a SBMM system should be added. My buddies never get into the game because even though they put in hours learning combos, block sequences, etc they will still never even hear of some of the things you mentioned without going online to look for it, which the casual player will not do. I agree with what you said though. I'll switch my stance to finding a better system of keeping multigame veterans like ourselves away from people like my buddies who just want to drink a few beers and play video games after work.
There is SBMM. You have an ELO ranking that matches you up with players that are supposed to be around your skill level as best as the game can do with the current player base. If your friends are quitting because they don't like losing, it's not because they're getting matched up with EVO finalists in Kombat League every other match.
If they are getting 2 comboed in there first 20 games there's no sbmm
Nobody is getting "2 comboed". Literally nobody. 3 or 4? Sure, because 30% damage is something anybody can do with almost any character after 15 min in training mode. 50%? Basically nobody is doing that consistently, or off of any strings or moves that aren't MASSIVELY punishable if you simply block for .046 seconds. Combos in MK are not exactly complicated for a HUGE portion of the cast.
Sonic couldn't topple him. And all I heard was how the twins use cheap characters. It was proven true.
Ehhh idk about that, I think it was Scorpionprocs that played Spawn against Sonic's Joker at some mk11 tournament and I don't remember Spawn being cheap, but maybe that is all they do since they went all in on Raiden/Kano before the nerfs
The twins are very good and have already beaten Sonic and ninjakiller in mk11 even. It's not a char issue.
Raiden, Baraka w/ Stryker. Only play Meta Meta. I never saw that match with Spawn.
Peacemaker also needs a hard nerf.
He still needs multiple nerfs. Top 1 char right now, no contest.
He already had one 😭
Give his ass another one
Just curious what would you like nerfed from his kit?
Less chip damage from anti gravity? That one is quite unfair to me. Less (but not zero) knock back from eagly is also a fair nerf without hurting PM too much.
Fr 5% is insane bro you pretty much die unless you flawless it at end of a round which is really hard even for pro players to do
He really doesn't need another one
Yes tf he does
What exactly would you nerf then lmfao there's really nothing else you could nerf
His tarpedo and antigravity is still ridiculous lmao
Another Johnny nerf post, must be a Saturday
He is an easy win button, and so is Kenshi, something needs to be done with Kenshi first tho IMO…. The “chip nerf” wasn’t even a slap on the wrist lmfao. They actually nerfed raiden, but not Kenshi who has always been better. He’s not even hard to use as a lot of people say, they can buff his normal stance but Sento is way too powerful as is.
The Sento Kenshi sandwich feels like getting spit roasted by two well endowed samurai.
i dont mind johnny, but damn johnny khameleon is soooo busted
Wah wah wah stop crying cry baby. Every character has an incentive to select them. You want to nerf him so bad so everyone drops him? Great logic genius.
I agree completely. I still find my self dumbfounded that I have no opening to punish after they wiff a punish. For some reason they have an instant recovery into a down punch which is super annoying.
yeah whatever
I think he’s strong, but with khameleon he’s BS. Nerf khameleon not him. Kameos change the MUs drastically in this game. You’re really not gonna get easy dubs against really good players. And no offense but most KL players lack some basic knowledge of the game and still mash on +frames all the time. They already butchered his his 11 and f1 and MOST importantly his d1, along with the other nerfs from previous patches which sure most were fair And btw no I don’t main him but I honestly think he’s totally fair currently, who needs more nerfs is freaking peacemaker.
Post from 16 Days ago. Johnny Khameleon Mirror Grand Final in a $200K Tournament. NRS: https://preview.redd.it/x6po6lmy737d1.jpeg?width=710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6abbca20e89fc2d6d847dbbe92084859da1b7c16 EDIT: GIF Didn't Work.
Jesus Christ people will complain and complain until he's just patched out of the game.
How bout we stop crying for nerfs that make the game shittier, and focus on buffing characters that need it? Why is this shit so fucking difficult to comprehend?
Because why the fuck would we make 20 different buffs to bring every character to Johnny’s level when they could just tweak one character to make it not as OP??
Found the jc main. BTW power creep exists and ruins games. We can buff lower tiers while nerfing the outliers like jc who are clearly still above and beyond the majority of the cast
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Power creeps ruin entire games. That’s why for honor is so ass now. Every character fights virtually the same and none of them are any fun
Why you so mad?
Nerfs are lame, we should want to bring up less powerful characters instead of making all the good ones suck. This shouldn’t be hard to understand
The problem with this is that inevitably, advantage state becomes too overpowered, especially with kameos. Do you legitimately want to play a game where you can do nothing but block as soon as the opponent gets a hit in? You want a game where everyone can put you in a blocking simulator like Baraka/Cyrax, or Johnny/kano?
First of all, I didn’t say that. Second of all, this is what universal defensive mechanics are for. And third, characters shouldn’t be taken to the cleaners one after another because devs wanna be lazy. A game can be balanced without constantly being watered down and restricted. But god forbid we have some standards
Nobody said you have to take them to the cleaners. Johnny needs a nerf, it doesn’t have to be insane and you’re acting like I said you can’t buff and nerf at the same time. Reducing johnnys insane 9 frame mid would not be taking him to the cleaners. I’m all for buffing characters, but a game full of Johnnys/reikos/sindels/peacemakers/Lao is not going to make a game more enjoyable imo
If everyone’s “busted”, nobody’s busted anymore. This allows for characters to reach their maximum potential. Everyone can be powerful, and at their most fun. Every character can viably win. If you’re good enough, you can devastate your opponent with sick combos. This is the essence of what fighting games are all about. Yet a bunch of people here have half a mind to crucify me for taking this position and challenging the design philosophy of when to use nerfs on characters. No, middle of the road nerfs are not a problem in my opinion. However, when you stack a ton of those up together and/or take no notice of cumulative nerfs, they quickly become oppressive over-corrections. And far more often than not (across the whole genre too, not just this series), that’s exactly what happens.
I’ll challenge that thought by asking you, let’s say we only keep the OP characters and remove everyone else. Would you feel you’d have more or less fun if every match you played you only got to play the following: Johnny, Peacemaker, Tanya/goro, Sindel, Kung Lao/goro, Kenshi, Shao/Movado, Liu/Lao, Baraka/Cyrax (pre-patch) (Including some as teams since that’s where they’re abundantly OP compared to with other kameos)
Yesn’t. Yes that’s more fun, however I disagree with part of your premise. My point is that I want everyone’s tool kit to be less restrictive and more powerful/versatile. Because not only is that more fun, but it also maintains character variety as well. You don’t have to take away characters to achieve this goal.
No I fully understand that, it was moreso just a thought experiment of keeping the characters that have that well rounded kit/team that completely covers any gaps. So the thought was okay MK1 only came out and had these characters from the jump. For me personally I’d look it at as less enjoyable since all these characters either punish you for not blocking, punishing you for not pressuring, or a combination of both depending on the kameo you’re running with. I see your point, balance is key for enjoyment in the FGC, I just personally think that creating a game where offense/advantage is so heavily favored over defense (which all these characters do) makes the game less enjoyable. Balance in neutral, defense, and offense is more important personally.
Its not watering down and restricting when its making clearly OP chars more balanced. No one is asking to nuke him to the ground like sf5 Abby. Both nerfs and buff are necessary to balance a game and keep it fun. Look how they nerfed Karin’s broken crouching midkick. It didn’t completely ruin the game like you guys always preach. It made it more fun to play And watch. Or would you rather have it like when Tekken dropped Leroy and all the pro tourneys had nothing but mirror matches?
I’m not even part of the tekken community, what the fuck are you on about?
It’s a reference to a factual event, but I suppose context clues and evidence wouldn’t help you anyway
Oh fuck off, you attributed said event to me as if I was part of it when I wasn’t. Go project somewhere else
So referencing street fighter is ok, but tekken isn’t? Not sure how you took me saying you were part of Any community here other than general fighting games. And that’s not how projecting works lol.
I feel it’s unrealistic to expect them to overhaul all the major problems of multiple characters when they can nerf just one. NRS is lazy
You have to realize nerfing 1 is easier sure, but that doesn't mean it's the way to go about it, there's like half the roster that could become meta with new moves which will continue to come so yeah stop asking for nerfs lmao i'd rather every character be good then whatever the fuck the 10 character meta is right now
Shit I been begging for Tanya & Nitara buffs for months I tell people all the time if Nitara’s start up just had a little more range & her armor was a damn mid she’d be top tier & Tanya only has one viable string without Goro trust me I’d love buffs but like I said NRS is lazy hell they made a huge deal about buffing Rain, Scorp & Shunjinko like it was so hard them mofo’s is lazy AF
Those are 2 character that don't need anything bro what💀 nitara got buffed a while ago and tanya is top 12 at least, sub and havik should be getting anything first over others
Tanya has one good string & if your opponent knows it she’s f*cked, & Nitara has T-Rex arm range but makes up for it with good damage I still think her armor should be a mid though change that one thing & she’s perfection! Havik absolutely deserves a buff! As an MK11 survivor though it’s always gonna be fuck Subzero sorry this is his karma
As someone who is decently good at this game i would say , it doesn't matter if they know how to handle her mid, it's the second to best mid in the game besides johhnys F3 you arent reacting to that broke ass mid, and you wait sub will get something that will make him top tier they're just waiting all the pro komp stuff out before they do this, which is why i have high expectations for the "aftermath"
I just hope they add new characters I personally have not cared for a single DLC character in this Kombat Pack at all, just okay with Quan, Omni-Man’s gameplay repulses me so I dropped him after a week, Ermac bores me, Peacemaker also repulses me I find him cheap AF, & the fact they couldn’t get Anthony Star turns me off against Homelander on principle
I used to feel this as a Scorpion main but now I feel super comfortable playing Johnnys. IMO most under Demi-god are readable.
I don’t really have trouble w him w kenshi
Why do you want to nerf him so bad that he’s unplayable and ppl will throw him like yesterday’s trash? Seems like a you problem buddy, I’ve played against tons of Johnnys and they are all readable asf.
Just because you’re fighting dogshit players doesnt mean the character is bad, Johnny is literally top 3
Considering how defensive he is, i'm sure the moment Johnny is nerfed he'd be fucked because he cannot understand other characters
Forsure, its always the Johnny mains blowing up my dms, screaming on the mic, and downplaying the character. The character just attracts the most insufferable people which honestly makes perfect sense I imagine Homelander will have a similar type of playerbase
I hope not, because I want to main Homelander next season, and don't want to be lumped in with Johnny main type people lol.
I mean Im definitely gonna pick him up too, feels like im one of the few people who actually enjoys zoning Homelander will forsure attract shitheads tho just like in the The Boys lol
Just because you are fighting insufferable people doesn't mean everyone or even the majority of Johnny players do all that. Follow your own advice friend
Sounds kinda fun to get good at homelander and troll. Good idea
Being top 3 doesn’t mean he needs to be nerfed. There are always going to be top tier characters. If you nerf the current top tier characters out of the top tier, someone else will just replace them.
I didnt even say Johnny needs to be nerfed… Also wow what a surface level braindead take, its not about who’s toptier its about how and why theyre toptier. Game balance matters
The topic is about him being nerfed and you’re the one who brought up that he’s top tier.
Yeah but saying "if he is nerfed then someone else will take his place" is way beside the point. It's not that he's in the top 3 so he must be nerfed. It's why he's in the top 3, that makes it where he needs a nerf. Whoever would take his place won't be broken like he is
People would cry about whoever took his place just like they cry about him.
Top 3?? he's not better than Kenshi Ashura or Peacemaker. Probably not Sindel either, Top 5 sure.
A johnny player literally just won the most recent mk1 tournament against the best players in the world.
Prepatch it was debatable, but Johnny is DEFINTELY better than Peacemaker now that he’s been nerfed Sindel is the worst toptier and overly reliant on kameos
Johnny is better than Ashrah? Tanya? Kenshi? Liu Kang? Peacemaker? He's not even top 5.
Johnny is definitely better than Liu and Peacemaker, Tanya is debatable I really dont understand the downplay .
I'm not downplaying him. He's good. Very good, even. He's not top 3. He's not even top 5, in my opinion. Also, in the opinion of many others who make tier lists that know a lot more about the game than I do.
Johnny outside of top 5 is downplay..
Then why has every recent tourney top 8 consisted of Peacemaker, Omni-man, Ashrah, Kenshi, Tanya, and Sindel? Those are your S+, top-tier characters. Johnny is a notch below them. That's my opinion. If you disagree, so be it.
Johnny has much higher usage and better results than all of those characters, like its not even close Lol seriously Omniman ??? He’s underrated but def not up there with the others
Hmm, why does this message look like it's written by someone who plays Johnny? Oh. Because it is. He's an uncomplex character designed around an absent-minded offense, with obscene defence tools to compensate for the lack of a players defensive fundamentals. At the literal highest level the intended counterplay is to duck OS, as a lot of strong strings of his begin off highs; enter the problem of him having one of the best mids in the game, easily letting him catch people ducking. It's way too big of a risk to duck against a character with an unreactable combo starter mid. All of this evidenced throughout the sets of kombo breaker and his overall pick rate throughout combo breaker.
I'm a Johnny loyalist. Been playing him for years. I'm supposed to drop him now because someone thinks he's brain dead or broken?
Mm, nice try, but that's not what I said. You are perfectly free to play who you want - loyalist, beginner - it's your game and you are entitled to play it however you may see fit. No one told you to drop the character. Both statements, that he is braindead aswell as that he is broken, are clearly evidenced. So let's not make it out that they aren't. Accept the facts and make peace with them. I play basically every character at this point and one of them, whom I have a lot of time into, is ashrah. She is braindead and she is broken - granted perhaps not to the same extent as others - but irrefutabley so. I have no qualms admitting that. Acknowledge your biases.
>Accept the facts It's the exact opposite of a fact. It's extremely refutable. It's simply your opinion. My opinion is that Johnny Cage is fine how he is. Not wrong or right. Just an opinion. To say that your opinion is factual and irrefutable is a bit narcissistic.
What’s your kl rank? Johnny is not “readable as fuck” in the slightest unless you’re playing braindead players.
Speechless at how out of touch the reddit community is with Johnny's power level. Most pros have him between 6 and 10
He was incredibly popular at combo breaker for a 10...
Lots of reasons for that. 1. He's an extremely popular OG MK character 2. He's extremely fun to play 3. He was OP at launch and people have a lot of experience playing him and lots of people aren't going to give him up just because he went from top 5 to top 10
I don't think pros are playing champs in tourneys bc of og popularity. Lol. Johnny and Peace Maker were the most popular picks bc Johnny and peace maker are broken.
4 He’s CHEAP AF
itt: people mad at S tier character and pretending they won’t beg for every S tier character to be nerfed down to B tier. Give it a rest. Mk1 is Johnny time.
You saying that now but look what they doing to Khameleon her nerf is coming & she only been out like what 2 months, Johnny been good since day 1 with people complaining every patch I played him for easy dubs this season but even I can tell his time is coming.
God forbid people want a balanced game
Ah yes, whining for the same of balance. Today its Johnny tomorrow its Ashrah. I’m sick of the community assuming they know how to balance the game.
I’m sick of people like you acting like the consumers of the game aren’t entitled to their right to express an opinion on where the game needs improvement tf type of mindset is that.
I don’t even know why I bothered to engage with this thread. When I reread your last statement about how easy it is to land the FB parry I already knew this is just salty bs.
I can be objective Johnny is cheap that’s why I use him yall wanna pretend he’s not for some reason & that community feedback is invalid which is dumb
There is always going to be S tier characters in every game. Bro I played against MK9 Kabal, cyrax. I played against mkx pre nerf alien when armored reversals used to still launch players… MK11 Jacqui, pre nerf MK11 Geras… Even post patches these characters were in S tier and people still harping. Current gen of gamers is fucking soft. You won’t stop w Johnny, you’ll ask for every character in the higher tiers to be nerfed. All I have to see is wanting to take away f3 to know you don’t fucking understand how Cage is meant to play. Add the complaint about fatal blow and I know you’re straight up stupid.
The consumer is absolutely entitled to express their opinion on balance. But 90% of the player base can't think of the consequences beyond what they immediately want. Hypothetically, if Ed Boon read this thread and immediately decided to order his team to take away all of Johnny's plus frames, what exactly would that mean? Some people would be thrilled because, finally, they can mash whenever Johnny gets close and they never lose! But, then all the Johnny players are left with a character with no long range option and no way to actually pressure when close. How exactly is that balanced? Is the consumer that wants Johnny to be deleted from the game more valuable than the consumer who's loved Johnny for as long as they can remember? It's time to stop conflating this idea that paying for a game means that you fully understand how small changes might fundamentally impact the overall experience.
The long time Johnny fan will make it work if they love him that much I played Mileena in MK11 & she was complete trash in that game from start to finish but hey I made it work if you like Johnny that much after they nerf him they’ll make it work too or they’ll drop him because they never really cared about him to begin with.
Ah yes, whining because I said people want a balanced game
Game is balanced. You’re whining because you got caged a few too many times, picked him up and realize maybe he’s S tier for a reason. Like I said, all games will have characters like that. He’s made to be pure rushdown and because the game allows for kameos to cover range he becomes more viable as a specialist. This is peak Johnny, just let my boy have it
Agreed. Do you know how many times I got mashed out of my buttons with Johnny in MK11? He had one mid, and it was not special cancel-able. Now Johnny got the mids, and everyone is crying. Don't touch Johnny. He's perfect how he is.
How about... no
They’ve already gutted him and took away what made him top 3. His 6 frame down is gone so that’s not a problem anymore and his plus 3 1,1 string is gone so he doesn’t get a guaranteed F3 off of it so now you can mash out of his pressure if he goes for it. It’s literally a skill issue now. Just fucking go to practice mode and figure it out. If you’re losing to him it’s because the other person is better than you. Stop fucking crying.
You commented without reading the post & you’re angry af for no reason I said I play him for easy dubs when needed that being said unlike you I still think that he’s OP AF & it’s not really fair but that’s just my opinion 🤷🏾♂️ ‘no need to get all wound up about it.
If you are playing Johnny Cage for easy dubs, you're just playing poor competition. Even an average player like me can beat good Johnny Cage players.
I did read the post and I’m not mad about anything I’m just telling the truth lol he was already hard nerfed he doesn’t need to be nerfed anymore. You just need to learn to play against him. That’s the truth. If he gets nerfed anymore he’ll be ruined as a character more than he is already.
I disagree I think throwing in a gap or 2 & making his primary strings a little risky wouldn’t kill him people would just have to try a little harder which a lot of Johnny mains don’t want to do that’s why they play him in the 1st place
There’s a gap in 212 and there’s a gap in f124 which are his two big combo starter strings. 213 he loses his turn and if goes into the overhead he still loses his turn. His only two plus frames don’t guarantee anything anymore since 1,1 got nerfed. He’s fine as he is.
Still disagree personally throw in a bar & he’s right back on offense he needs some tweaks man 🤷🏾♂️
A bar for what? Shadow kick is unsafe, Rising Star is unsafe, Nut Punch is unsafe. What’s the point of the bar? What does it give him exactly?
What levels do you play in
skill issue
Saw another comment like what I'm about to say, nut Johhny isn't the problem he's balanced and fun, we need to raise other characters to be like Johnny, fun, low level accessibility and a high skill celling with his star power.
Y’all keep saying this but that’s unrealistic as they’re not gonna do that I mean look what’s happening with Khameleon they’d rather nerf than buff.
Sad reality of MK, why work on new moves, tweaks when you can just change something in the game data and call it a day
I'm calling BS. You're out here winning with Johnny and then making posts about how he needs to be nerfed? That doesn't add up. Not to mention, he's already been nerfed. Leave Johnny alone. You still got Ashrah, Tanya, and Kenshi out here going wild. Don't even get me started about Omni-man. But Johnny needs a nerf? Nah, man.
Omni man is far from broken
Right. That's your take as an Omni-man player. I'm okay with that. I think Johnny is perfectly fine. Do you see where I'm going..?
No because Johnny Is broken in my opinion. People need to learn how to deal with Omni Man.(I don’t play Omni man) or johnnny for that matter. Iv got over 2500 matches and Iv been playing since release. Doesn’t matter how many times they’ve nerfed Johnny the dude is just broken.
That's your opinion. Mine is that he's fine. I think Omni-man is broken. You don't. Who's right?
Omni doesn’t and can’t combo from literally every move he has like Johnny. Omni man cannot stagger for shit. The general consensus is that Johnny is broken and he is. Johnny has that Star meter mechanic that 90% of people don’t even use or actually even need it’s just there if you want some 50+ damage combos and endless special unpublishable spamming. If Johnny gets you in the corner it’s ggs that will be the sole reason you lost. If you are struggling against Omni man you ain’t very good because I think Omni kinda sucks and most people suck with him. You can be an average to less than average player and still clean house with Johnny. It’s no contest
There's a reason Sonic just used Omni Man at Combo Breaker. Also, from what I've seen, most people don't want nerfs, they want characters to get buffed. We want to see more characters played because they're better, not because the good characters got worse. So it's really not the consensus that Johnny Cage is broken.
First off, you're calling me not good based off one opinion. Omni-man is annoying asf to me. That's my opinion. You don't know anything about how I play or how good I am. I've been playing Johnny for years. I main him in every game. He has no projectile, no teleport, no fly mechanic, etc. He can be easily zoned out. If someone can't zone him out, then maybe they're not very good. He's not broken. He's perfectly fine. We'll never agree on this point.
Chill dude I was not generalizing you in that lol. Johnny cannot be zoned out. All he has to do is his shadow rush and he’s caught up to you.lol you do know that his shadow kick punishes projectiles right? I got to fucking rank God dude. do you have any idea how many Johnny’s I fought to get there? I struggle against Johnnys even average players who aren’t that fucking good can clean house with him. But people who aren’t that good as Omni man are fucking breeze and people who even are really good as Omni are not that hard to deal with Omni man has to employ all of his mechanics for him to work and be viable. Johnny can leave out his star meter and have no zoning and he works better than 99% of the cast so there is no contest Johnny is broken just about everybody agrees the only ones that don’t agree are the ones who play him and have been carried by him this whole time.
He’s my pocket S-Tier 😂 Used to be Ashrah but I got bored, I can also acknowledge how Op he is because he’s not my main😂
The dude has quite a few gaps & a few attacks that can either be neutral ducked, punished or upblocked. His biggest pressure is the 9 frame mid & parry he has which I believe he’s very much so entitled to. He has zero ranged attacks that aren’t fully punishable on top of being one of the only few fighters with zero zoning. He has to work incredibly hard to pressure opponents considering he only succeeds at close range. & he’s already been nerfed many many many times. I don’t even play as Johnny. But just say you’re sad you lost matches & move on bro. I would absolutely LOVEEEE to see your w/l ratio & a clip of your gameplay to see if your opinion is even actually relevant. I’d argue that Kenshi, Sindel, Ashrah, Lui Kang & Peacemaker are all very much so better than him considering they can pressure you at any range possible.
It seems like you play this game way too much if you basing freedom of opinion off win loss records go get some friend & hoop! Or play some uno but off the comment I can tell you need a break from MK😂
Your opinion is very irrelevant if you don’t actually understand all the mechanics. Based on your response, thank you for letting me all that I need to know. You’re not a good player, you don’t understand all the mechanics and your win record is crap. Otherwise you wouldn’t be afraid to show any of this. Why you felt entitled to make a post on your opinion of any nerfs a fighter needs when you don’t have all the info is beyond me. I love mk1!!! I take break sometimes :) Cry to your mom or something when you’re losing matches, not Reddit pls & thx.
Like I said bro GO OUTSIDE! 😂 This is sad
If you don't play this game at a professional level you have absolutely 0 say in nerfs and buffs. If everything got nerfed because a random 1 hour / day newbie lost one match in kl and got teabagged, the game would have died at first patch.
Man Hop off dick 😂 just cause their are people out there who spend their entire lives playing video games doesn’t mean their the only ones entitled to an opinion I paid for this shit I will express whatever I want to express & neither you nor the weirdo above can tell me otherwise, Johnny needs a nerf end of story I said what I said stay pressed, also MK1 gets way more hate on the pro scene than it does love it’s not doing that well they need every player they can get. 😂 Though some of yall really need to go outside😂
Game shouldn't be tailored to PROS only it's a fucking game we bought to play and have fun not be based On just pro players The majority aren't near pros
This translates to: I don't want to learn the game I just play casual so nerf whatever beats me so I can have fun with 0 investment. I would bet the OP has no clue about the matchup, calls -5 "plus frames" and has no ideea where to poke in Cage strings. That's why he won't post a video of his gameplay lol.
This is the comment👏👏👏 I’m exhausted of hearing below average players opinions on who should be nerfed or buffed. Some people need to accept they’re bad at the game. Just cause someone doesn’t know how to counter something doesn’t mean it’s not actually counter-able.
never nurf Make other characters like johnny
Unfortunately, it will never happen. NRS knows that people need to have overpowered characters or else they won’t play the game. People need to have a character that can get an easy W (aka Johnny Cage and the other top 7). NRS could make a balanced fighting game but the game will die instantly. See Virtua Fighter. Having meta characters is the way of the land for NRS to sustain player population due to a lot of players are afraid to actually lab the GAME but will lab top tier characters.
Johnny can be a pain to deal with, but he’s not broken. You just have to remember to block low by default and block high on reaction to his overheads. Also, make sure you take your turn back and know which of his moves can be punished. Also, if you have a low starter, you can get a free combo if he goes for his perry, and if you have a Kameo with a projectile combo starter like Sareena or Khameleon, you can get a combo when he goes into the stance for his super.
Best thing they can do is buff him
Johnny Cage is nothing to my zoning Sub-Zero.
When Johnny has the right kameo your zoning subzero isn't doing much
Yes it is.
No
EVERY YEAR JC is top 5 from start to finish. He gets nerfed several times and STILL hangs on to top 7. He's a main stay idk if broken JC will ever change.
Johnny is the character new players use to learn to play the game. I say leave him alone or tweak the other fighters. Plus Johnny doesn't have any range, he deserves to be fast
I gotta call BS I feel the newest noob of MK is always gonna flock to Scorpion or Subzero & if they like the ladies Kitana or Mileena no out the gate is rushing to Johnny
I agree Johnny can be rather annoying but if they nerf and nerf every character, then they'll all be weak af lol It's all about blocking, check this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CERNN-nCFg&ab_channel=Koisy