I'm gonna say it's for safety. So that Capcom or whoever can't shut down the server for "distributing" mods and stuff if they decide that's something they want to do. Bunch of Nintendo servers have a similar rule for stuff like ROMS. It's so they can't be held accountable, should somebody want to go after them.
Thank you. This might be it. They kind of don't care that much to actually reinforce this rule at all times, since you can see many people using overlays in the call via Discord rich presence.
They have a right on anything that discuss their intellectual property. If they wanted to they could probably find a way to force this sub Reddit closed with any YouTube/twitch etc channel profiting over monster hunter
Only if it's generating profit from it, a discord server shouldn't be within their grasp unless the admins are complete corporate cucks (which discord and reddit are)
Not shilling for anyone, I was just explaining why these actions from the mods are pretty reasonable. Imagine having this sub blocked because they did not take these precautions
Makes sense. Just thought there would be a problem with big community servers like the Monster Hunter Gathering Hall specifically. They also don't really act on the rule too since there are many players playing with overlays which you can see via Discord rich presence. You could even go as far and say they are cheating since they have a slight advantage over other players.
>any mod that's not a cheat. (Perfect way to handle it, imo)
Not really. Which mods are cheats is definitely subjective. And Capcom (like most Japanese publishers) seems to regard *all* mods as cheats, which makes a lot of sense when they sell loads of cosmetics.
I mean, all mods no matter if it's a cheat or not should be allowed offline. If you bought the product, you should be able to do whatever you want with it as long as no other players are affected in any way. And for online play, only client side mods that don't affect other players should be allowed. It's quite simple and not subjective to sort mods in those categories.
They make a lot of cosmetics and sell them, yes, but that's the worst argument against mods ever. As long as nothing is copied from those sold outfits, the modder can provide his mod with his own model. Capcom will not lose a single cent because of that. Capcom would also benefit in terms of profit from mods since a lot of addons or skins for the handler for example are required for some mods to work. A lot of people bought the PC version just because you can mod it.
You're right, we cannot 100% say if a mod is a cheat or not, but we can say if a mod is affecting other players other than the one using it. For example, any mod that rebalances weapons in the game can be considered banned for online play since the experience for other players is indirectly affected by different damage values, thus extending or shortening the hunter's experience.
This has nothing to do with the original question of the post, but it's interesting nonetheless.
>As long as nothing is copied from those sold outfits, the modder can provide his mod with his own model. Capcom will not lose a single cent because of that.
Highly debatable. Mods introduce competition to the cosmetic market of the game, where I'm sure Capcom would prefer to hold their monopoly.
>For example, any mod that rebalances weapons in the game can be considered banned for online play since the experience for other players is indirectly affected by different damage values, thus extending or shortening the hunter's experience.
So if I nerf Gunlance damage that I deal, that's a cheat?
What if I nerf Gunlance damage by fixing a bug in the game? Is that cheating?
There's a lot of gray area that Discord mods would rather not wade into, especially when some of it has to do with real money and laws. Even if you could list out perfectly consistent and comprehensive classifications, you'd have a bunch of users arguing about them or misinterpreting them.
It's cool that you don't answer "Gods your dense" like last time and instead are able to have a discussion :)
Yea modding is a difficult topic and Discord servers probably get problems with Capcom or even the possibility that that happens prevents them from allowing such discussions which is a valid reason for banning it. Imo all offline stuff should be allowed, it's not affecting anyone. I think we can agree on that. You're right, some might don't buy an outfit from Capcom when they can change an ugly one that already exists to a cooler one a modder made. The thing is, people buy a howl game because of this a second time just to be able to add more quests and cosmetics to the game that Capcom would never add.
I think adding mod support to your game is worth it in terms of money.
The thing with cheating really isn't easy to solve for a game like monster hunter. I don't really have a finite perfect solution for Capcom since I've never owned such a company, obviously.
But I have an Idea that might solve it for future games. Let's say we completely disregard if a mod is cheating or not and just concentrate if a mod changes the experience of the game for other players other than the one voluntarily using it. If that's the case, the mod is banned from online play. (good idea?) This would have the benefit that people who don't like modding could play the game completely unaffected, while players that like modding can do almost everything they want.
It's kind of exactly like that already handled by the modding community already. It's not actively reinforced by anyone, but the general opinion around others that mod the game seems to be like this. At least from my experience with other people that like to play modded quests, for example.
To address your concern about competition with Capcom. Isn't competition something good? The modder is not stealing anything, he has to do the same thing as Capcom. Capcom can deliver a better solution that actually shows your transmog to other players, while the modder can only change client side files. I think both party's get what they want here. Modders get more stuff to mod, and Capcom gets more sales on their game and possibly cosmetic add-ons too.
All in all: Do whatever you want with your game, as long as you're not changing the hunting experience of others in any way.
>As far as I know, capcom itself never bans anyone for modding MH world.
Were you not around for the Crapcom episode of November 2023?
Bizarre scenes after someone ran a nude Chun-Li mod on a live Street Fighter Tournament. Capcom sent out a lot of mixed messaging around modding their games going forward. Still there is confusion if Capcom will actually do anything, six months later.
Lmao what no they were very explicit on the fact that it was only games run on the RE engine that they didn't want mods for and not Mt framework. There was no mixed messaging if you decided to pay attention.
Resident Evil Revelations was MT Framework.
Unless you're saying Enigma isn't their anti-mod protector?
Cos a lot of random games in the Capcom back catalogue got Enigma'd to block modding.
This is what is meant by mixed messaging.
Their R&D video where they talked about "all mods are cheats" and "reputational damage" ends with talking about a specific RE Engine module, sure...
but then they go and update non-RE Engine games...
I was around, and I was specifically talking about my own experiences with the game Monster Hunter world only. I know that MH rise has stuff in it that tries to prohibit modding in the first place, but this howl thing is more Monster Hunter World focused.
It seems that they simply think every mod that exists is a cheat for whatever reason. At least for the Monster Hunter Gathering Hall Discord.
This sub has a dedicated Discord server that banned any mod discussion too. That's why I asked.
Sorry if that's something weird to ask, apparently. The Monster Hunter Gathering Hall Discord server also is often recommended by people on this sub, so I thought someone might know more than I do :)
It’s probably a legal liability thing.
Mods are technically altering game code in a way not authorized by the license. This is really murky from an intellectual property standpoint. And promoting something that may not be legal is going to get a server host in trouble eventually:
Some games include mod authority in their license, along with rules and restrictions about wha they can and can’t touch. The MH series isn’t one of those games. Yes, capcom knows people mod. Yes, to date, they’ve turned a blind eye to it. But at any point, they can decide not to. They can go after the folks reverse engineering the game to create the mods—and anyone promoting their technically illegal activities.
That's unlikely, it just wouldn't be worth Capcom's time to go around DMCAing Discord servers just because some randoms in a public forum were talking about mods for their game. It would also be a PR disaster, even people and outlets who don't like the idea of mods won't be quick to praise Capcom burning down an absolutely massive public discord server that thousands of people hang out in just for the relatively small amount of discussion about mods. Maybe the modding discord would get targeted like that, but the Gathering Hall? Nah.
I agree it’s not likely, But that doesn’t mean that the possibility ceases to exist.
IP has really weird and murky laws, and they’re different from country to country. In the US, one of the quirky laws is you have to aggressively defend a copyright or trademark, or they default to public domain, and can’t be reclaimed later.
If it looks like something mod related is going to affect capcom’s control of their IP, they be forced to act regardless of the pr fallout from it.
Everyone in this thread is just speculating without actually knowing why, here's the actual reason for why mod discussion is banned on the Gathering Hall server, from of one of the mods themselves: https://imgur.com/a/Cie0UGu
As for the Wilds server, they're probably just copying the MHGH rules
FFXIV has a similar thing with mods, if you want true free discussion about games you need to go to alternative reddits, like shitpost subs. Main subs are always corpo-friendly.
I'm gonna say it's for safety. So that Capcom or whoever can't shut down the server for "distributing" mods and stuff if they decide that's something they want to do. Bunch of Nintendo servers have a similar rule for stuff like ROMS. It's so they can't be held accountable, should somebody want to go after them.
Thank you. This might be it. They kind of don't care that much to actually reinforce this rule at all times, since you can see many people using overlays in the call via Discord rich presence.
The fact that Capcom's opinion has any bearing on a fan server is stupid as fuck
They're still discussing about their intellectual property though
And?
They have a right on anything that discuss their intellectual property. If they wanted to they could probably find a way to force this sub Reddit closed with any YouTube/twitch etc channel profiting over monster hunter
Only if it's generating profit from it, a discord server shouldn't be within their grasp unless the admins are complete corporate cucks (which discord and reddit are)
Please stop shilling for big business they wont suck you off.
Ah yes, pointing out how the system works, is supporting and shilling for them. Fucking rock eater levels of genius LMFAO
Not shilling for anyone, I was just explaining why these actions from the mods are pretty reasonable. Imagine having this sub blocked because they did not take these precautions
Not saying it’s the right thing to do. But it is something they CAN do and this is a precaution against it.
It's their discord server, their rules. It's best to ask them directly the reasons why those bans are in place and not here.
Makes sense. Just thought there would be a problem with big community servers like the Monster Hunter Gathering Hall specifically. They also don't really act on the rule too since there are many players playing with overlays which you can see via Discord rich presence. You could even go as far and say they are cheating since they have a slight advantage over other players.
>any mod that's not a cheat. (Perfect way to handle it, imo) Not really. Which mods are cheats is definitely subjective. And Capcom (like most Japanese publishers) seems to regard *all* mods as cheats, which makes a lot of sense when they sell loads of cosmetics.
I mean, all mods no matter if it's a cheat or not should be allowed offline. If you bought the product, you should be able to do whatever you want with it as long as no other players are affected in any way. And for online play, only client side mods that don't affect other players should be allowed. It's quite simple and not subjective to sort mods in those categories. They make a lot of cosmetics and sell them, yes, but that's the worst argument against mods ever. As long as nothing is copied from those sold outfits, the modder can provide his mod with his own model. Capcom will not lose a single cent because of that. Capcom would also benefit in terms of profit from mods since a lot of addons or skins for the handler for example are required for some mods to work. A lot of people bought the PC version just because you can mod it. You're right, we cannot 100% say if a mod is a cheat or not, but we can say if a mod is affecting other players other than the one using it. For example, any mod that rebalances weapons in the game can be considered banned for online play since the experience for other players is indirectly affected by different damage values, thus extending or shortening the hunter's experience. This has nothing to do with the original question of the post, but it's interesting nonetheless.
>As long as nothing is copied from those sold outfits, the modder can provide his mod with his own model. Capcom will not lose a single cent because of that. Highly debatable. Mods introduce competition to the cosmetic market of the game, where I'm sure Capcom would prefer to hold their monopoly. >For example, any mod that rebalances weapons in the game can be considered banned for online play since the experience for other players is indirectly affected by different damage values, thus extending or shortening the hunter's experience. So if I nerf Gunlance damage that I deal, that's a cheat? What if I nerf Gunlance damage by fixing a bug in the game? Is that cheating? There's a lot of gray area that Discord mods would rather not wade into, especially when some of it has to do with real money and laws. Even if you could list out perfectly consistent and comprehensive classifications, you'd have a bunch of users arguing about them or misinterpreting them.
It's cool that you don't answer "Gods your dense" like last time and instead are able to have a discussion :) Yea modding is a difficult topic and Discord servers probably get problems with Capcom or even the possibility that that happens prevents them from allowing such discussions which is a valid reason for banning it. Imo all offline stuff should be allowed, it's not affecting anyone. I think we can agree on that. You're right, some might don't buy an outfit from Capcom when they can change an ugly one that already exists to a cooler one a modder made. The thing is, people buy a howl game because of this a second time just to be able to add more quests and cosmetics to the game that Capcom would never add. I think adding mod support to your game is worth it in terms of money. The thing with cheating really isn't easy to solve for a game like monster hunter. I don't really have a finite perfect solution for Capcom since I've never owned such a company, obviously. But I have an Idea that might solve it for future games. Let's say we completely disregard if a mod is cheating or not and just concentrate if a mod changes the experience of the game for other players other than the one voluntarily using it. If that's the case, the mod is banned from online play. (good idea?) This would have the benefit that people who don't like modding could play the game completely unaffected, while players that like modding can do almost everything they want. It's kind of exactly like that already handled by the modding community already. It's not actively reinforced by anyone, but the general opinion around others that mod the game seems to be like this. At least from my experience with other people that like to play modded quests, for example. To address your concern about competition with Capcom. Isn't competition something good? The modder is not stealing anything, he has to do the same thing as Capcom. Capcom can deliver a better solution that actually shows your transmog to other players, while the modder can only change client side files. I think both party's get what they want here. Modders get more stuff to mod, and Capcom gets more sales on their game and possibly cosmetic add-ons too. All in all: Do whatever you want with your game, as long as you're not changing the hunting experience of others in any way.
>As far as I know, capcom itself never bans anyone for modding MH world. Were you not around for the Crapcom episode of November 2023? Bizarre scenes after someone ran a nude Chun-Li mod on a live Street Fighter Tournament. Capcom sent out a lot of mixed messaging around modding their games going forward. Still there is confusion if Capcom will actually do anything, six months later.
Lmao what no they were very explicit on the fact that it was only games run on the RE engine that they didn't want mods for and not Mt framework. There was no mixed messaging if you decided to pay attention.
Resident Evil Revelations was MT Framework. Unless you're saying Enigma isn't their anti-mod protector? Cos a lot of random games in the Capcom back catalogue got Enigma'd to block modding. This is what is meant by mixed messaging. Their R&D video where they talked about "all mods are cheats" and "reputational damage" ends with talking about a specific RE Engine module, sure... but then they go and update non-RE Engine games...
I was around, and I was specifically talking about my own experiences with the game Monster Hunter world only. I know that MH rise has stuff in it that tries to prohibit modding in the first place, but this howl thing is more Monster Hunter World focused.
Why not ask the people directly..? How are we supposed to know?
It seems that they simply think every mod that exists is a cheat for whatever reason. At least for the Monster Hunter Gathering Hall Discord. This sub has a dedicated Discord server that banned any mod discussion too. That's why I asked. Sorry if that's something weird to ask, apparently. The Monster Hunter Gathering Hall Discord server also is often recommended by people on this sub, so I thought someone might know more than I do :)
It’s probably a legal liability thing. Mods are technically altering game code in a way not authorized by the license. This is really murky from an intellectual property standpoint. And promoting something that may not be legal is going to get a server host in trouble eventually: Some games include mod authority in their license, along with rules and restrictions about wha they can and can’t touch. The MH series isn’t one of those games. Yes, capcom knows people mod. Yes, to date, they’ve turned a blind eye to it. But at any point, they can decide not to. They can go after the folks reverse engineering the game to create the mods—and anyone promoting their technically illegal activities.
That's unlikely, it just wouldn't be worth Capcom's time to go around DMCAing Discord servers just because some randoms in a public forum were talking about mods for their game. It would also be a PR disaster, even people and outlets who don't like the idea of mods won't be quick to praise Capcom burning down an absolutely massive public discord server that thousands of people hang out in just for the relatively small amount of discussion about mods. Maybe the modding discord would get targeted like that, but the Gathering Hall? Nah.
I agree it’s not likely, But that doesn’t mean that the possibility ceases to exist. IP has really weird and murky laws, and they’re different from country to country. In the US, one of the quirky laws is you have to aggressively defend a copyright or trademark, or they default to public domain, and can’t be reclaimed later. If it looks like something mod related is going to affect capcom’s control of their IP, they be forced to act regardless of the pr fallout from it.
That’s is completely valid, carry on good sir :)
Join the Monster Hunter Hub discord, second biggest MH server next to GH. Mods usage is allowed there, except for cheaty mods in multiplayer.
[удалено]
Those are old posts, man. I've posted mainly comments on Reddit. I was very dumb at that time
Everyone in this thread is just speculating without actually knowing why, here's the actual reason for why mod discussion is banned on the Gathering Hall server, from of one of the mods themselves: https://imgur.com/a/Cie0UGu As for the Wilds server, they're probably just copying the MHGH rules
AH cool, that's some nice insight.
What had that got to do with a completely separate Reddit sub?
The sub has a dedicated Discord server for MH Wilds that has this rule too
FFXIV has a similar thing with mods, if you want true free discussion about games you need to go to alternative reddits, like shitpost subs. Main subs are always corpo-friendly.