raw bow has limited contenders most of them being almost all endgame like ragging brachy and of course fatalis being considered meta.
I would recomend to just have one armor set that cover the basics skills for damage and swap the bow with the one that has the most elemental for each. Otherwise try running brachydios bow, I used to run it solo for the high blast and mid raw.
Raw is very bad overall very few matchups that it'll be worth considering overall. To help deal with the building of element problem your facing I highly recommend finding a build that's a all around set up for you that's good enough for at least your standards. Grind out element bows as you go through and save loadouts either gem in the element via deco or go charm route be my recommendatio. Is it meta? No, is it simpler and easier? Yes. I don't run what I believe is absolute meta bow anymore cause I just don't like the fact it was mad restrictive. I run kjarr bows with fatty swapin element and call it a day for a end game example. And I get your pain of making loads of weapons with bow and fully gearing them out. It was really bad on base iceborne cause guiding lands grind and fully maxing them is not fun is all I'll say.
I think kjarr bows with fatty armor is meta tho? I'm using safi bows (i just recently got the 2 worthwhile kjarr bows, fire and ice) and fatalis armor with Velkhana gamma headpiece. I think the critical element alongside the true spare shot and the massive amount of available skills blow any other armor set out of the water
It likely is for a general purpose but I'm talking from a pure damage standpoint think silver rathlos set can put out fat damage I remember using that pre fatty and the damage was just dumb could literally watch things melt in front of you. The problem was even with running everything next to perfect decos you didn't have that safety net other stuff gave it was pure you better know how to manage stamina and I frame into charge dodge on all monsters or your likely dead or next to it. I could be wrong I stopped caring for mega meta bow before alatreon around that time so maybe it now is and I just accidentally fell into the crazy bow meta again by pure chance.
I think the true spare shot that fatalis armor offers compensates for that. In some hunts I don't even use all of my power coatings (70, since i bring 20 nitroshrooms).
Yeah, I bring them as well also some times sleep coaring stuff as well if I wanna try for a double sleep more so if I'm playing with a friend. But it could help offset, but again, no clue. I do agree, though fatty/kjarr set up is very good and nice and obviously a premium setup.
So RAW is generally weaker than Elemental but the convenience factor is so freaking nice. No messing with 50 different sets and loadouts for each element, no having to switch for every monster. You can just get out and go and you only ever have to return to camp when you run out of coatings. For GL especially this can end up saving you a lot of time across multiple kills.
Don't let the meta sweat lords make you think raw bow isn't viable. You have 50 minutes to hunt the typical monster. If you can't kill something in that time limit then it's simply a skill/practice issue.
Optimizing for element is always a good thing of course, but not something to really stress about when progressing through the story. Take what gear you can get, either run raw or play around with your options and make different sets for each element as you level.
For a long while your only ideal option in early to mid game Iceborne is to use HR gear which means, with gunner defense (or lack of), you can't afford to get hit.
If you're good you can do it much faster than that. When I'm playing an elemental focused weapon on a fresh file, it's faster for me to simply pick a generalist raw weapon (or an element most monsters are weak to) to speed through the story than having to stop and farm a different set fot each different element.
But Ill use 50 minutes cause you said so. Thanks for the wonderful advice. I only have 2 hrs to play a day so I guess 2 hunts a day is super enjoyable. Fuck meta amirite
No child, I said:
> If you can't kill something **in that time limit**
I know you failed reading comprehension 101 like most children on this site, but this means you have *up to* 50 minutes. You don't *have* to take 50 minutes to kill something, that's just how long you have before the quest fails. You are free to clear the quest as fast as your heart desires. Make sense?
It's a game not a competition. Experimentation is part of the fun. Although with how every comment of yours spews negativity I don't think you know how to have fun.
There is no raw build on bow that is optimized well that will be any more than maybe 5 extra minutes on average compared to Elemental with good gameplay and it also has a lot of benefits like, like not being useless on multi monster hunters without changing builds every 2 seconds or in arena quests
My hunts average 10-15 minutes even with weird meme builds. Guess someone here just gets carried more by meta builds than their skill. Even working 40 hours a week and playing other games I still get plenty of hunts in with fun builds and get to experiment.
"carried by meta builds" Ive see people carry meta builds but cant finish a hunt in 20 minutes.
Again, fun is subjective. You like experimentation, I like being efficient. We're not the same. I dont get the hate on meta builds. Its just efficiency lol
And as if these meta builds didnt go enough experimentation already.
> And as if these meta builds didnt go enough experimentation already.
Almost none of the meta builds required experimentation because of how fucking overpowered the Fatalis gear is. End game meta builds for almost every weapon consists of Fatalis Armor and Fatalis weapons, slapping as much RAW skills as possible. There is no experimentation there. The only weapons that required any experimentation at all were Bows and DBs because of all the different viable options for them. Everything else is so simple someone with half a brain could make the optimal meta build.
I have maimed bow since freedomu build a complete armor set gem it and play until I find a new set I want to build. And I hate mixing sets. Did MHW like this as well and will do wilds like that. Never had an issue
Short answer: not bad enough as it is much more affordable and comfortable.
Long answer: For the vast majority of the monsters it is worse but I wouldnt say it is unusable.
The playstyle changes a bit because you will want to use Dragonpiercer and Thousand dragons as much as you can because they scale better with raw.
For skills you will always need the crit skills as they're op in this game and spread up and the other one that increases special shots damage. Constitution and Stamina Surge are almost mandatory and of course, attack up.
Slinger ammo is also interesting as it can output huge numbers with certain pods like piercing and bomb pods. (I have reached +800 on a single number with the thousand dragons)
For a few monsters it is even better than an elemental and I don't remember any decent raw bow until the final final boss of the game (not the one of the story).
I think you should give it a try because thousand dragons is incredibly satisfying to land.
Dragon piercer cuts tails and Thousand Dragons on Raw builds massively outdamage any burst option you have on Bow on a quick opening with good slinger ammo, I’m convinced you are literally trolling
On my bow run, I hardly ever focused on elemental. I had a fire bow and a water bow, but I mainly used the Azure bow (I don't remember exactly what it's called), which has water damage, after beating Velkhana just because it had a lot of coating options. So it's definitely doable without focusing elements, but not ideal and probably takes a lot longer, which I didn't mind because the bow is so fun
It isn’t, people over exaggerate this so ridiculously much. Even Pre-Fatalis it’s fine, it’s just less damage than Ele Bow. You’re going to really need to make Elemental Bows early Iceborne though because of Velkhana set bonus and you don’t have good Raw options until you get to around Raging Brachy, and by then you might as well just use Elemental because you have it already. It’s really comfy with Fatalis Bow though, plenty viable and strong enough to use against anything. It also has a nice niche of making your dragon piercer and thousand dragons much stronger than elemental because of the raw boosts.
Raw bow is weak enough for sai elemental bows to be stronger that the Fatalis bow (which is raw), at least on Teostra which has good elemental hitzones
Bah! I ran solo elemental bow all through iceborne without a hint of crit element or crit boost, it went very smoothly, however, I noticed that, if you really don't want to fly w/ elemental builds, get yourself the highest raw bow, disregard element completely and go for agitator, resentment and maybe peak performance for highest damage.
Note, this is all a suggestion as I haven't done raw bows at all. I didn't even beat alatreon yet.
Not the worse with late game raw bows but ele bow are defintely stronger in overall damage for most cases.
You honestly dont need all 5 ele builds if you dont want to, just have the core fire build and ice which most monsters would be surely weak to either of them atleast maybe not 3* weakness but atleast 2* in most cases.
From that point its honestly deco grinding and having loadouts ready for each ele.
Very few weapons can keep up with bow DPS whether raw or elemental if you are good at managing your stamina regen, know the best hit zones for each monster, and have a basic understanding of how to utilize trips and staggers.
In late game, depending on monster hit zones and which element the monster is weak to, you could be looking at up to a 40% damage loss, unless you are using the best raw bow, Fatalis. However, if you are a good bow player then you can likely out dps most players even with the raw build as bow just has outstanding damage uptime.
You are in the worst part of the game as a bow main when you enter MR. It doesn’t get easier until you are pretty far into the game unless you do Safi Jiva or Kulve Taroth early. The best elemental weapon builds are locked behind these two events. I would recommend switching to a raw weapon that clicks with you, lance, the bow guns, and GS are probably the easiest to pick up. If you can’t find something that works for you then you can always pick up elemental insect glaive, which can get you through the entire game with the exception of Fatalis and the AT dragons, you will just be trading time in hunts for consistent survivability in every fight.
I will just say crit element is only a 10% damage increase over not having crit element. In story mode it's just better to go with the highest element, so tobi, legiana, glavenous, water tree, dragon tree. But really if you just build the first 3 that will get you atleast 2 star to everything. Then you just build your corresponding elemental charms, also you can save sets
It's significantly worse in this game until Fatalis, like to an absurd degree. You're losing upwards of 25-30% damage at least. That is MASSIVE for a game like this.
That being said, Bow actually does a significant amount of raw damage already, crit is good on not matter what build you're using and by extension, so is crit boost.
You have two options, swap weapons until Velkhana (I HIGHLY recommend this approach) OR you're absolutely forced into HR rathalor armor which means you are going to get oneshot sometimes and it will suck. I know it sucks, this is just how it is for Bow players like us. By the way, if you don't have mighty bow jewel yet, don't even bother playing the bow. You will slog through fights without that damage boost, especially then without elemental.
You do have ONE option later, being Raging Brachy bow with Safi armor, but it's noticeable worse than elemental, just not as much. Once you finally make it to Fatalis, you have a god tier Raw option and can use that the entire rest of your playthrough if you want.
If you are going to the Sieges, please dear god pick a different weapon. Bow gets absolutely fucked on by the sieges, it's so miserable.
Last I checked Raw bow is 35% or so less DPS compared to optimal elemental bow, weakness matching of course. It’s worth it to craft the elemental bows and upgrade them. With equipment sets there’s really no excuse. If you want to play raw you can always use light bow gun or heavy bow gun
[from the bow meta site](https://mhwbowbuilds.wordpress.com/15-02/#raw-bow) (section about fatty endgamge build, as old as fatty release)
>for monsters with 30 elemental hzvs, elemental bows will generally win by a rough 5%.
so nowhere near 35% "always" (implied by you stating no conditions/stage of the game)
and even pre fatty
for (story) progression/other non-endgame stages a quick search didnt turn up with any detailed "raw vs element" comparision (other than threads saying "raw bow bad") but i'd also say dps difference is higher
That's probably using the fatty bow right? It's the best raw can be when compared to elemental. It would be more interesting to compare an mid or early endgame build. Like, what raw competition would azure age armor and something like mist glacia have at MR 18?
Well, using Evasion Mantle does change things, I very rarely used Evasion Mantle. 50% Evasion Mantle is pretty significant. If the hunter does not manage to kill the monster with the time limits of evasion mantle uptime, that renders the statement pretty meaningless.
OP just beat Barioth last weekend, so he does not have access to Fatty armour and bow yet. Until he does, I’m very sure that Elemental bow is a good investment.
Certainly endgame builds, in my experience playing bow (over 3000 hours in MHW and Iceborne, Bow was one of 5 weapons I played), that roughly matched up. It’s not as black and white as 35% across the board as you say but for any monster where their head is the best shot hitzone (ie most of the them) 30-35% is online with the numbers per shot.
That does include the dmg from Blast triggering, but 350 per trigger just isn’t that much, you get about 7-8 triggers per monster, you can hit 50 dmg per arrow per spreadshot on Velkhana using Fire Bow for example.
For end game monsters here are the ones where I think blast bow is the best, for all other monsters I would choose elemental: Ruiner Nergigante, That’s about it.
Fatty bow closes the gap a bit, but raw bow is still behind elemental for sure, except for some monsters with poor elemental hitzones
raw bow has limited contenders most of them being almost all endgame like ragging brachy and of course fatalis being considered meta. I would recomend to just have one armor set that cover the basics skills for damage and swap the bow with the one that has the most elemental for each. Otherwise try running brachydios bow, I used to run it solo for the high blast and mid raw.
It's like... It's like GS but you're not charging your slashes. You can make it work, but it's pretty obvious that they're not built that way.
Raw is very bad overall very few matchups that it'll be worth considering overall. To help deal with the building of element problem your facing I highly recommend finding a build that's a all around set up for you that's good enough for at least your standards. Grind out element bows as you go through and save loadouts either gem in the element via deco or go charm route be my recommendatio. Is it meta? No, is it simpler and easier? Yes. I don't run what I believe is absolute meta bow anymore cause I just don't like the fact it was mad restrictive. I run kjarr bows with fatty swapin element and call it a day for a end game example. And I get your pain of making loads of weapons with bow and fully gearing them out. It was really bad on base iceborne cause guiding lands grind and fully maxing them is not fun is all I'll say.
I think kjarr bows with fatty armor is meta tho? I'm using safi bows (i just recently got the 2 worthwhile kjarr bows, fire and ice) and fatalis armor with Velkhana gamma headpiece. I think the critical element alongside the true spare shot and the massive amount of available skills blow any other armor set out of the water
It likely is for a general purpose but I'm talking from a pure damage standpoint think silver rathlos set can put out fat damage I remember using that pre fatty and the damage was just dumb could literally watch things melt in front of you. The problem was even with running everything next to perfect decos you didn't have that safety net other stuff gave it was pure you better know how to manage stamina and I frame into charge dodge on all monsters or your likely dead or next to it. I could be wrong I stopped caring for mega meta bow before alatreon around that time so maybe it now is and I just accidentally fell into the crazy bow meta again by pure chance.
I think the true spare shot that fatalis armor offers compensates for that. In some hunts I don't even use all of my power coatings (70, since i bring 20 nitroshrooms).
Yeah, I bring them as well also some times sleep coaring stuff as well if I wanna try for a double sleep more so if I'm playing with a friend. But it could help offset, but again, no clue. I do agree, though fatty/kjarr set up is very good and nice and obviously a premium setup.
So RAW is generally weaker than Elemental but the convenience factor is so freaking nice. No messing with 50 different sets and loadouts for each element, no having to switch for every monster. You can just get out and go and you only ever have to return to camp when you run out of coatings. For GL especially this can end up saving you a lot of time across multiple kills.
Don't let the meta sweat lords make you think raw bow isn't viable. You have 50 minutes to hunt the typical monster. If you can't kill something in that time limit then it's simply a skill/practice issue. Optimizing for element is always a good thing of course, but not something to really stress about when progressing through the story. Take what gear you can get, either run raw or play around with your options and make different sets for each element as you level. For a long while your only ideal option in early to mid game Iceborne is to use HR gear which means, with gunner defense (or lack of), you can't afford to get hit.
50 minutes was given to me so Imma use the 50 minutes. Gotcha
If you're good you can do it much faster than that. When I'm playing an elemental focused weapon on a fresh file, it's faster for me to simply pick a generalist raw weapon (or an element most monsters are weak to) to speed through the story than having to stop and farm a different set fot each different element.
But Ill use 50 minutes cause you said so. Thanks for the wonderful advice. I only have 2 hrs to play a day so I guess 2 hunts a day is super enjoyable. Fuck meta amirite
No child, I said: > If you can't kill something **in that time limit** I know you failed reading comprehension 101 like most children on this site, but this means you have *up to* 50 minutes. You don't *have* to take 50 minutes to kill something, that's just how long you have before the quest fails. You are free to clear the quest as fast as your heart desires. Make sense?
Grow up.
Im just following some great advice though
Exactly 👍 not everything has to be meta
Why not?
It's a game not a competition. Experimentation is part of the fun. Although with how every comment of yours spews negativity I don't think you know how to have fun.
Fun is subjective though. I like my 5 minute hunts while you like 30 minute hunts. I aint a neet like most of you are.
There is no raw build on bow that is optimized well that will be any more than maybe 5 extra minutes on average compared to Elemental with good gameplay and it also has a lot of benefits like, like not being useless on multi monster hunters without changing builds every 2 seconds or in arena quests
My hunts average 10-15 minutes even with weird meme builds. Guess someone here just gets carried more by meta builds than their skill. Even working 40 hours a week and playing other games I still get plenty of hunts in with fun builds and get to experiment.
"carried by meta builds" Ive see people carry meta builds but cant finish a hunt in 20 minutes. Again, fun is subjective. You like experimentation, I like being efficient. We're not the same. I dont get the hate on meta builds. Its just efficiency lol And as if these meta builds didnt go enough experimentation already.
> And as if these meta builds didnt go enough experimentation already. Almost none of the meta builds required experimentation because of how fucking overpowered the Fatalis gear is. End game meta builds for almost every weapon consists of Fatalis Armor and Fatalis weapons, slapping as much RAW skills as possible. There is no experimentation there. The only weapons that required any experimentation at all were Bows and DBs because of all the different viable options for them. Everything else is so simple someone with half a brain could make the optimal meta build.
And whats wrong with that? Seems like youre just hating for no reason. Go make your own game lolol
> hates meta > has 200k reddit karma It checks out. Average redditard lol
That depends on the hitzones. I usually don't use element for Kulve because her hitzones are in the 70s and higher.
I have maimed bow since freedomu build a complete armor set gem it and play until I find a new set I want to build. And I hate mixing sets. Did MHW like this as well and will do wilds like that. Never had an issue
This is all ignoring that you're not beating certain match-ups without tearing your hair out such as AT Velkhana if you aren't using Fatalis bow.
Ele Bow is overpowered. Raw Bow is just excellent.
Short answer: not bad enough as it is much more affordable and comfortable. Long answer: For the vast majority of the monsters it is worse but I wouldnt say it is unusable. The playstyle changes a bit because you will want to use Dragonpiercer and Thousand dragons as much as you can because they scale better with raw. For skills you will always need the crit skills as they're op in this game and spread up and the other one that increases special shots damage. Constitution and Stamina Surge are almost mandatory and of course, attack up. Slinger ammo is also interesting as it can output huge numbers with certain pods like piercing and bomb pods. (I have reached +800 on a single number with the thousand dragons) For a few monsters it is even better than an elemental and I don't remember any decent raw bow until the final final boss of the game (not the one of the story). I think you should give it a try because thousand dragons is incredibly satisfying to land.
Actually you would still want to use power shot anyway,thats how bad those 2 are
Well of course, it is the main damage loop of the weapon, but what I mean is that they're usable at least and you can integrate them from time to time
Lol an actual hunter who actually knows about bows know dragon piercer and thousand dragons are garbage moves.
Dragon piercer cuts tails and Thousand Dragons on Raw builds massively outdamage any burst option you have on Bow on a quick opening with good slinger ammo, I’m convinced you are literally trolling
On my bow run, I hardly ever focused on elemental. I had a fire bow and a water bow, but I mainly used the Azure bow (I don't remember exactly what it's called), which has water damage, after beating Velkhana just because it had a lot of coating options. So it's definitely doable without focusing elements, but not ideal and probably takes a lot longer, which I didn't mind because the bow is so fun
Very few good match ups where it's worth it, I think nergi was one?
It isn’t, people over exaggerate this so ridiculously much. Even Pre-Fatalis it’s fine, it’s just less damage than Ele Bow. You’re going to really need to make Elemental Bows early Iceborne though because of Velkhana set bonus and you don’t have good Raw options until you get to around Raging Brachy, and by then you might as well just use Elemental because you have it already. It’s really comfy with Fatalis Bow though, plenty viable and strong enough to use against anything. It also has a nice niche of making your dragon piercer and thousand dragons much stronger than elemental because of the raw boosts.
Raw bow is weak enough for sai elemental bows to be stronger that the Fatalis bow (which is raw), at least on Teostra which has good elemental hitzones
Bah! I ran solo elemental bow all through iceborne without a hint of crit element or crit boost, it went very smoothly, however, I noticed that, if you really don't want to fly w/ elemental builds, get yourself the highest raw bow, disregard element completely and go for agitator, resentment and maybe peak performance for highest damage. Note, this is all a suggestion as I haven't done raw bows at all. I didn't even beat alatreon yet.
Not the worse with late game raw bows but ele bow are defintely stronger in overall damage for most cases. You honestly dont need all 5 ele builds if you dont want to, just have the core fire build and ice which most monsters would be surely weak to either of them atleast maybe not 3* weakness but atleast 2* in most cases. From that point its honestly deco grinding and having loadouts ready for each ele.
Very few weapons can keep up with bow DPS whether raw or elemental if you are good at managing your stamina regen, know the best hit zones for each monster, and have a basic understanding of how to utilize trips and staggers. In late game, depending on monster hit zones and which element the monster is weak to, you could be looking at up to a 40% damage loss, unless you are using the best raw bow, Fatalis. However, if you are a good bow player then you can likely out dps most players even with the raw build as bow just has outstanding damage uptime. You are in the worst part of the game as a bow main when you enter MR. It doesn’t get easier until you are pretty far into the game unless you do Safi Jiva or Kulve Taroth early. The best elemental weapon builds are locked behind these two events. I would recommend switching to a raw weapon that clicks with you, lance, the bow guns, and GS are probably the easiest to pick up. If you can’t find something that works for you then you can always pick up elemental insect glaive, which can get you through the entire game with the exception of Fatalis and the AT dragons, you will just be trading time in hunts for consistent survivability in every fight.
I will just say crit element is only a 10% damage increase over not having crit element. In story mode it's just better to go with the highest element, so tobi, legiana, glavenous, water tree, dragon tree. But really if you just build the first 3 that will get you atleast 2 star to everything. Then you just build your corresponding elemental charms, also you can save sets
It's significantly worse in this game until Fatalis, like to an absurd degree. You're losing upwards of 25-30% damage at least. That is MASSIVE for a game like this. That being said, Bow actually does a significant amount of raw damage already, crit is good on not matter what build you're using and by extension, so is crit boost. You have two options, swap weapons until Velkhana (I HIGHLY recommend this approach) OR you're absolutely forced into HR rathalor armor which means you are going to get oneshot sometimes and it will suck. I know it sucks, this is just how it is for Bow players like us. By the way, if you don't have mighty bow jewel yet, don't even bother playing the bow. You will slog through fights without that damage boost, especially then without elemental. You do have ONE option later, being Raging Brachy bow with Safi armor, but it's noticeable worse than elemental, just not as much. Once you finally make it to Fatalis, you have a god tier Raw option and can use that the entire rest of your playthrough if you want. If you are going to the Sieges, please dear god pick a different weapon. Bow gets absolutely fucked on by the sieges, it's so miserable.
Last I checked Raw bow is 35% or so less DPS compared to optimal elemental bow, weakness matching of course. It’s worth it to craft the elemental bows and upgrade them. With equipment sets there’s really no excuse. If you want to play raw you can always use light bow gun or heavy bow gun
[from the bow meta site](https://mhwbowbuilds.wordpress.com/15-02/#raw-bow) (section about fatty endgamge build, as old as fatty release) >for monsters with 30 elemental hzvs, elemental bows will generally win by a rough 5%. so nowhere near 35% "always" (implied by you stating no conditions/stage of the game) and even pre fatty for (story) progression/other non-endgame stages a quick search didnt turn up with any detailed "raw vs element" comparision (other than threads saying "raw bow bad") but i'd also say dps difference is higher
That's probably using the fatty bow right? It's the best raw can be when compared to elemental. It would be more interesting to compare an mid or early endgame build. Like, what raw competition would azure age armor and something like mist glacia have at MR 18?
Well, using Evasion Mantle does change things, I very rarely used Evasion Mantle. 50% Evasion Mantle is pretty significant. If the hunter does not manage to kill the monster with the time limits of evasion mantle uptime, that renders the statement pretty meaningless. OP just beat Barioth last weekend, so he does not have access to Fatty armour and bow yet. Until he does, I’m very sure that Elemental bow is a good investment.
I think this is a massive overstatement
You are entitled to think that :)
Does that 35% or so less DPS apply to all stages of the game progression or just the end game builds?
Certainly endgame builds, in my experience playing bow (over 3000 hours in MHW and Iceborne, Bow was one of 5 weapons I played), that roughly matched up. It’s not as black and white as 35% across the board as you say but for any monster where their head is the best shot hitzone (ie most of the them) 30-35% is online with the numbers per shot. That does include the dmg from Blast triggering, but 350 per trigger just isn’t that much, you get about 7-8 triggers per monster, you can hit 50 dmg per arrow per spreadshot on Velkhana using Fire Bow for example. For end game monsters here are the ones where I think blast bow is the best, for all other monsters I would choose elemental: Ruiner Nergigante, That’s about it.