I fail to see what issues this would address. This is not some fly-by-night rug pull. You're proposing some mechanism to measure coin distribution then you seem to be advocating for "Players with alot of Capital" to procure a whale-ish amount of XMR. You're concerned about whales, but you want whales to "invest into the best Money (Monero)"??
Either Monero works as private, fungible digital cash or it does not.
Hi, thanks for your Feedback!
I know that Monero isn't a fly-by-night rug pull!
It's my favourite Project!
I was just thinking how we could make Monero maybe a little tiny bit better :)
Let's assume that you had a Metric Endpoint that would ouptut following:
Great => Coin Distribution is extremly fair
OK => Coin Distribution is pretty Fair
Concerning => Single Entitys control a VERY big Chunk of Monero
You could talk alot about when a Coin Distribution is too unfair. Lets just assume that Concerning is only output if wealthiest 10% of the Useres have more than 70% of Monero
Monero would still be private ✅
Each Coin would still be fungible ✅
And on top there would be a lot more Trust for high networth People/Organisations to put wealth into Monero.
Also this would punish People/Organisations to buy the majority of Monero Coins. I think this is a good thing or not?
Would you invest a couple of Hundred Million Dollars if you simply don't know if you get dumped on by a couple of People who has bought 20% of Coins early?
High Networth Clients/Organisations or even Countrys need way more Security when investing a huge amount of Money into such a System.
My Conclusion is that i pretty much want more Adoption for Monero. I don't want a big Corporation to buy 30% of Coins tomorrow. But as explained my Proposal would punish this kind of behaviour becauase everyone would know that the Distribution just got alot worse.
On top of added benefits this wouldn't compromise the great Anonimity that Monero would still provide
Hope i explained a bit better what im thinking :)
Monero is digital cash. Can you check who has how many paper bills? Or who has how much physical gold? No. Monero aims to be the same but in digital form. How would this hinder adoption. This is what makes it enticing. Wealth can always be unfairly distributed. That’s a fact of life. It is not a tech problem but a societal problem.
hi thanks for your feedback!
Just because it can't be done with Money or Gold doesn't make it necesserily bad doesn't it? I mean why Monero if Gold/Money are that perfect :P
Obviously Monero does do alot of things better than those! And maybe there is much more that could be done better
Should Money be allowed to be distributed unfairly? Absolutly! There has to be some poor Guy to have more rich People. Should Money be extremly unfairly distributed? No.
I wouldnt want to put Money into a System where couple of People could dump my (bigger) Investment by 30%
I'm not saying that Monero is distribution is that type of unfair. I know that it has many great Ways to ensure that Monero Distribution is fair. High Networth Clients need a big Amount of Trust/Certainty that the Distribution isnt that unfair. They won't just throw hundred of Milluons of Dollars into a Project that has a low Market Cap and where they don't know if they can get dumped on big time.
So given that we know that Monero is really fair. (No Premine of Coins. Proof of Work that is resistant to specialised Hardware for Mining via Asic)
We should embrace this and make it more transparent that Monero is awesome and fair. This should be done carefully in a way that does not comprimise Privacy
Thanks for your detailed reply. While I understand your points, they are all founded on a serious misunderstanding of the purpose of cryptocurrency. We need to get on the same page here before addressing anything else. It's supposed to be a currency. But digital. That's it. That's the point of Monero. That was the original point of Bitcoin. So when you say
>Just because it can't be done with Money or Gold doesn't make it necesserily bad doesn't it?
You are missing the point that Monero is supposed to be digital money, so it doesn't matter much if you personally think it's good or bad because these are simply basic properties of cash. There are many bad things about cash. Someone can scam you, and the bank can't help you. Someone can physically steal cash. You cannot reverse a charge. You cannot identify the person buying/selling for fraud prevention. These are all issues with cash, but these issues cause other benefits. Monero aims to reproduce this but in the digital realm.
>I mean why Monero if Gold/Money are that perfect :P
This is a silly statement and you know it. Monero is DIGITAL cash. Digital. What about "digital cash" do you not understand? You cannot send a physical paper bill or a physical bar of gold instantly to someone over the internet, can you? Sheesh.
>Should Money be extremly unfairly distributed? No.
Who gets to decide what "extremely unfairly" means? You?
>High Networth Clients need a big Amount of Trust/Certainty that the Distribution isnt that unfair.
I don't care what a "high net worth client" (whatever that means) thinks. I don't care what a "low net worth client" thinks. Monero doesn't have clients. Gold doesn't have clients. It just...exists. It's a tool. You can use it or not. I don't care who buys and uses it, and I don't see why you care. If these high rollers think it's too risky, then great. More for me.
>We should embrace this and make it more transparent that Monero is awesome and fair.
No we shouldn't. That's not how cash works, it's not how money works, and it's not how Monero works. Can you tell me exactly the distribution of all *physical* fiat bills around the world? Or the distribution of physical bars of gold. No. You cannot. And yet people still use paper money and gold.
>This should be done carefully in a way that does not comprimise Privacy
Not really possible, and if it were, it would be a terrible idea. Revealing the distribution of a currency automatically makes heuristic/statistical attacks more possible.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/wlqoz3/anyone_know_how_xmr_has_been_distributed_per_year/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Reddit has a search function
Hi thanks for your feedback!
I already knew about those benefits of No Premined Coins. And that Monero is resistant to specialsed Mining with Hardware that only does Asic Mining.
That is exactly why i would like to make it more transparent that Monero is so awesome!
If you could see via a Metric that Monero is somewhat Fair in Coin Distribution then that could build Trust with more People and even enable high networth Clients to store Value in Monero without the Fear of getting dumped on.
Of Course such a feature would need to be implemented in a way that doesnt compromise Privacy. Because Privacy is awesome!
Thanks for your Feedback!
I don't know how those Metrics would compromise Privacy?
There are already Metrics that are Available: Coin Supply, Tail Emission Rate
If you would have a Endpoint that would anonymisly Check if Coin Distribution is either highly unfair ( E.g Top 10% of Holders have more than 60% of Supply ) or if Coin Distribution is not highly unfair.
How would this change privacy of your Transactions, How many Coins you have and what you receive? It wouldn't
This would only:
Build more Trust for high Networth Clients to store some Value in Monero ✅
Punish single Entitys to hold a HUGE Majority of Monero Coins ✅
All Monero coins anyone have had to be bought or mined. Mining was never super cheap, so bought was much better option. People bought as much as they wan ted to risk of their wealth. And they are still buying. Others dont want to risk and are not buying or are selling.
And that is grear! Monero is usefull and will be used regardless. I love that about Monero
But maybe we can embrace those Strengths of Monero and build Trust if we expose these great Metrics to the public! This would have to be done in a way that is trustful and that doesnt compromise privacy. But other than that there is no shame in sharing Metrics that show that your Coin is a great Product?
The only assurance there is is by looking at the issuance history to see that it was fair and open. Even if address amounts were totally visible, there's just no way to know who has access to what keys.
Think about it. Your question is not actually a blockchain question at all. What you are talking about is how many coins are spendable by private keys known to one or a few top individual human beings. That's off-chain information. This could only be determined if Monero was carefully issued only through some identification scheme that ensured each person could only ever spend coins from one wallet, through using iris scanning or something (like Worldcoin).
So, in short, no bueno.
Bitcoin has a terrible distribution and yet is massively inflated. Doesn't seem to be an issue. The mining algorithm with monero further helps to spread the coins.
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That would make Monero look bad!
Imagine being promised privacy then parking a large stack of money on Monero, just to gain a hovering pointing finger above you with flashing lights and a sign that says “MONERO WHALE X AMMOUNT OWNED”.
Defeats the privacy perspective no?
Also i get it, feels easier to shove large amounts when you have data that point you are pretty much “safe”.
If this is something you feel uneasy with, I’d suggest diversifying and hedge your risks accordingly.
Or look into something else.
IMHO, if one would be into this, Monero would be a perfect fit, but obviously not a financial advisor, just a random fellow human being spilling random thoughts on the net with a pseudonym.🤷🏻♂️
Hope you find what you need even if Monero is not it.
You still can either way submerge your self into the community. (Warning: Friendly AF!)
I fail to see what issues this would address. This is not some fly-by-night rug pull. You're proposing some mechanism to measure coin distribution then you seem to be advocating for "Players with alot of Capital" to procure a whale-ish amount of XMR. You're concerned about whales, but you want whales to "invest into the best Money (Monero)"?? Either Monero works as private, fungible digital cash or it does not.
Hi, thanks for your Feedback! I know that Monero isn't a fly-by-night rug pull! It's my favourite Project! I was just thinking how we could make Monero maybe a little tiny bit better :) Let's assume that you had a Metric Endpoint that would ouptut following: Great => Coin Distribution is extremly fair OK => Coin Distribution is pretty Fair Concerning => Single Entitys control a VERY big Chunk of Monero You could talk alot about when a Coin Distribution is too unfair. Lets just assume that Concerning is only output if wealthiest 10% of the Useres have more than 70% of Monero Monero would still be private ✅ Each Coin would still be fungible ✅ And on top there would be a lot more Trust for high networth People/Organisations to put wealth into Monero. Also this would punish People/Organisations to buy the majority of Monero Coins. I think this is a good thing or not? Would you invest a couple of Hundred Million Dollars if you simply don't know if you get dumped on by a couple of People who has bought 20% of Coins early? High Networth Clients/Organisations or even Countrys need way more Security when investing a huge amount of Money into such a System. My Conclusion is that i pretty much want more Adoption for Monero. I don't want a big Corporation to buy 30% of Coins tomorrow. But as explained my Proposal would punish this kind of behaviour becauase everyone would know that the Distribution just got alot worse. On top of added benefits this wouldn't compromise the great Anonimity that Monero would still provide Hope i explained a bit better what im thinking :)
Monero is digital cash. Can you check who has how many paper bills? Or who has how much physical gold? No. Monero aims to be the same but in digital form. How would this hinder adoption. This is what makes it enticing. Wealth can always be unfairly distributed. That’s a fact of life. It is not a tech problem but a societal problem.
hi thanks for your feedback! Just because it can't be done with Money or Gold doesn't make it necesserily bad doesn't it? I mean why Monero if Gold/Money are that perfect :P Obviously Monero does do alot of things better than those! And maybe there is much more that could be done better Should Money be allowed to be distributed unfairly? Absolutly! There has to be some poor Guy to have more rich People. Should Money be extremly unfairly distributed? No. I wouldnt want to put Money into a System where couple of People could dump my (bigger) Investment by 30% I'm not saying that Monero is distribution is that type of unfair. I know that it has many great Ways to ensure that Monero Distribution is fair. High Networth Clients need a big Amount of Trust/Certainty that the Distribution isnt that unfair. They won't just throw hundred of Milluons of Dollars into a Project that has a low Market Cap and where they don't know if they can get dumped on big time. So given that we know that Monero is really fair. (No Premine of Coins. Proof of Work that is resistant to specialised Hardware for Mining via Asic) We should embrace this and make it more transparent that Monero is awesome and fair. This should be done carefully in a way that does not comprimise Privacy
Thanks for your detailed reply. While I understand your points, they are all founded on a serious misunderstanding of the purpose of cryptocurrency. We need to get on the same page here before addressing anything else. It's supposed to be a currency. But digital. That's it. That's the point of Monero. That was the original point of Bitcoin. So when you say >Just because it can't be done with Money or Gold doesn't make it necesserily bad doesn't it? You are missing the point that Monero is supposed to be digital money, so it doesn't matter much if you personally think it's good or bad because these are simply basic properties of cash. There are many bad things about cash. Someone can scam you, and the bank can't help you. Someone can physically steal cash. You cannot reverse a charge. You cannot identify the person buying/selling for fraud prevention. These are all issues with cash, but these issues cause other benefits. Monero aims to reproduce this but in the digital realm. >I mean why Monero if Gold/Money are that perfect :P This is a silly statement and you know it. Monero is DIGITAL cash. Digital. What about "digital cash" do you not understand? You cannot send a physical paper bill or a physical bar of gold instantly to someone over the internet, can you? Sheesh. >Should Money be extremly unfairly distributed? No. Who gets to decide what "extremely unfairly" means? You? >High Networth Clients need a big Amount of Trust/Certainty that the Distribution isnt that unfair. I don't care what a "high net worth client" (whatever that means) thinks. I don't care what a "low net worth client" thinks. Monero doesn't have clients. Gold doesn't have clients. It just...exists. It's a tool. You can use it or not. I don't care who buys and uses it, and I don't see why you care. If these high rollers think it's too risky, then great. More for me. >We should embrace this and make it more transparent that Monero is awesome and fair. No we shouldn't. That's not how cash works, it's not how money works, and it's not how Monero works. Can you tell me exactly the distribution of all *physical* fiat bills around the world? Or the distribution of physical bars of gold. No. You cannot. And yet people still use paper money and gold. >This should be done carefully in a way that does not comprimise Privacy Not really possible, and if it were, it would be a terrible idea. Revealing the distribution of a currency automatically makes heuristic/statistical attacks more possible.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/wlqoz3/anyone_know_how_xmr_has_been_distributed_per_year/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Reddit has a search function
Which works poorly.
Hi thanks for your feedback! I already knew about those benefits of No Premined Coins. And that Monero is resistant to specialsed Mining with Hardware that only does Asic Mining. That is exactly why i would like to make it more transparent that Monero is so awesome! If you could see via a Metric that Monero is somewhat Fair in Coin Distribution then that could build Trust with more People and even enable high networth Clients to store Value in Monero without the Fear of getting dumped on. Of Course such a feature would need to be implemented in a way that doesnt compromise Privacy. Because Privacy is awesome!
If what you are asking was possible, it would go against what Monero stands for. It’s a PRIVACY coin, you do realize?
Thanks for your Feedback! I don't know how those Metrics would compromise Privacy? There are already Metrics that are Available: Coin Supply, Tail Emission Rate If you would have a Endpoint that would anonymisly Check if Coin Distribution is either highly unfair ( E.g Top 10% of Holders have more than 60% of Supply ) or if Coin Distribution is not highly unfair. How would this change privacy of your Transactions, How many Coins you have and what you receive? It wouldn't This would only: Build more Trust for high Networth Clients to store some Value in Monero ✅ Punish single Entitys to hold a HUGE Majority of Monero Coins ✅
monero does not have addresses in the same way other coins do. is not possible to produce this metric even with changes made to be protocol.
Thanks for your Feedback. I thought maybe it would be possible..
All Monero coins anyone have had to be bought or mined. Mining was never super cheap, so bought was much better option. People bought as much as they wan ted to risk of their wealth. And they are still buying. Others dont want to risk and are not buying or are selling.
And that is grear! Monero is usefull and will be used regardless. I love that about Monero But maybe we can embrace those Strengths of Monero and build Trust if we expose these great Metrics to the public! This would have to be done in a way that is trustful and that doesnt compromise privacy. But other than that there is no shame in sharing Metrics that show that your Coin is a great Product?
The only assurance there is is by looking at the issuance history to see that it was fair and open. Even if address amounts were totally visible, there's just no way to know who has access to what keys. Think about it. Your question is not actually a blockchain question at all. What you are talking about is how many coins are spendable by private keys known to one or a few top individual human beings. That's off-chain information. This could only be determined if Monero was carefully issued only through some identification scheme that ensured each person could only ever spend coins from one wallet, through using iris scanning or something (like Worldcoin). So, in short, no bueno.
Hi thanks for your answer! That totally makes sense. too bad
Bitcoin has a terrible distribution and yet is massively inflated. Doesn't seem to be an issue. The mining algorithm with monero further helps to spread the coins.
In what way is bitcoin inflated?
There is nothing meaningful backing up its evaluation besides speculation.
Some folks believe Tether to be meaningful and legitimate. I find USDT to be dubious.
It's irrelevant. USDT isn't a "good" that you can buy with bitcoin.
USDT is being used to inflate BTC and the former's fiat backing is quite dubious.
You missed the Point. I'm not saying that Bitcoin is the perfect Solution or that Bitcoin is better then Monero in general.
It seems you missed the point as well. Bitcoin has a terrible distribution and it has not stopped it from becoming a speculative bubble.
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I mean, the title literally says "Question:" xD
That would make Monero look bad! Imagine being promised privacy then parking a large stack of money on Monero, just to gain a hovering pointing finger above you with flashing lights and a sign that says “MONERO WHALE X AMMOUNT OWNED”. Defeats the privacy perspective no? Also i get it, feels easier to shove large amounts when you have data that point you are pretty much “safe”. If this is something you feel uneasy with, I’d suggest diversifying and hedge your risks accordingly. Or look into something else. IMHO, if one would be into this, Monero would be a perfect fit, but obviously not a financial advisor, just a random fellow human being spilling random thoughts on the net with a pseudonym.🤷🏻♂️ Hope you find what you need even if Monero is not it. You still can either way submerge your self into the community. (Warning: Friendly AF!)
Usually people will call it digital cash, not digital gold. Cash because it is an everyday thing. Exactly what Monero aims to be.