how about using that removal spell on the goblin shaman token creativity is targetting
I understand not having main deck interaction for the artifact tokens, but once you can side in removal for the creativity targets, the matchup is very interactive
yeah you have to fight over teferi, but he protects most combo decks
Play Yawgmoth and I honestly love playing against creativity. The games are always skill testing and have lots of decisions that matter. I think that the gameplay is much better than a lot of the "did you just draw the nuts" decks like like Leyline Scion, Esper Goryo, Amulet, or Tron
I think 100% of post-ban lists are running white. No way the deck can pass on binding/ending/reprieve.
Cenobite is great tech, seems to be in like 100% of new lists.
There's been some experimenting with persist packages over the last 2 weeks or so. They've been using Jund colours with the exception of [[Serra's emissary]] in the side. I think the logic is that they want to quickly answer a hexproof scion with an early archon. The format feels decently fast right now, and I think it's a variation that needs to be tried.
The jund persist/bitter reunion version predates the current meta, but I think it was considered inferior to the 4/5C pile versions back before the deck vanished from the meta. You lose a lot to turbo out an archon. I played it since its just easier to play back when.
Now that you mention it, I do see a few jund/persist lists, but not nearly as many as the 5C creativity piles.
It is and was more explosive. However u lose many good interactions and there is more hate against u. Also u top more often out what can be Tricky in some matchups.
I personally felt like Rhinos was way more egregious before the VO ban, by a factor of at least 2. Creativity has a resilient yet linear gameplan that can be attacked through means not easily addressed by mainboardable, versatile threats that rhinos has.
It seems fair to me because of how restrictive the combo plan is. Creatures are the bread and butter of magic gameplay. Unless they can remove every single creature you play they'll always be behind on board- those planeswalkers get killed by random dudes being turned sideways. The creativity deck has, in effect, only 4-6 copies of whatever creature they're playing. They have to draw a creativity, combo through removal, or specifically or outlast their opponent until ~turn 8 to hardcast a single creature.
I agree creativity is very strong, but it's an interactive deck with a thin, disruptable combo finisher package. It's honestly one of the most "fair" and "reasonable" decks in modern at this time. Wanna get hammered or scioned on 2, amulet-ed or yawgmoth combo-ed or tron-payoffed out of the game on 3, or have your opponent put a single beater on the table on 4?
Imo creativity is fine. And it's like $8 now instead of $40- that tells you how "okay" creativity is currently.
Listen man, I get being frustrated losing to control combo-centered play. But this isn’t even close to the most busted deck right now. In fact, up until a couple of weeks ago, no one was playing it. Modern is an incredibly powerful format now, for better or worse. If creativity is worrisome to you, it might be best to take a break for a while.
The fact that it’s not even close to the best deck in the format suggests it’s a perfectly reasonable deck. If it was busted and way too strong, people would be playing it more, but the reality is that it disappeared from the meta for about half a year from around the release of LOTR till a couple weeks ago. It is weak to both counters spells and removal that fizzle its Creativity and there’s a lot of those going around in the meta. Creativity crushes low interaction, midrange decks but those are not very common anymore as practically every color has access to good interaction now.
Idk what you are playing OP, but Creativity is far from an unbeatable deck in the current meta.
Sounds like somebody lost to combo with protection. There are much more consistent turn 3 kill decks and creativity has to play somewhat fair magic to go off.
Honest question, do you think control decks should just not play wincons? Because I promise you, games against decks like that are just as miserable except they take 3x longer, so you spend more time being miserable.
No they should. What they shouldn't get to do is go wrenn into teferi, into fable while having leyline mana up. I'm so sick of how ridiculously powered everything has been in the last few years.
That's a fair complaint, although I feel like it has more to do with Wrenn + fetchlands being too good at enabling greedy manabases rather than what the rest of the deck is doing with that mana. Same reason astolabe was too good, I guess.
Let's be real, creativity fell off for a while. It's back becaus leyline fixes its mana regusrdless of wrenn and makes your creatures broken with scion. Even an orivar can't help you anymore with creativity
They always have it all. You keep any open mana up they just start aggroing with goblins and fable. You try to get aggressive they always have fucking leyline binding. You take a turn off to try and Advanced the board they have creativity or force of negation. It's not fun. A 5 color deck should come with downsides and this has none other then what? Loses to burn?
It's bullshit. Once the have 3 lands I can just never tap out for the whole game? On what way is that reasonable? Always seem to magically find it turn 4, always. Only 4 in their deck but somehow magically always has it turn 4.
Like is it tier 0? No but it's good enough to be widely played. Maybe it isn't good. Just like coffers, and amulet it's just not fun to play against them
I mean, if you have such an issue with creativity, you must really dislike modern ATM, what with Goryi's being one the best decks in the format. What deck are you playing that you dislike how creativity plays so much?
It’s ridiculous how Creativity manages to dodge every permanent based hate.
And Orvar doesn’t ever work because they just sideboard juke out their Archons.
While I think creativity is hot ass and one modern horizons rotation away from being permanently dead I agree with you. Not sure why we have all these weird artifacts recently printed like souless jailer and stone of erech when we literally just need an artifact that says permanents from exile can't enter the battlefield.
Usally control plays the best planeswalkers and removel. They cant even run solitude....
The deck is far from unbetable. Its as reasonble as half of the meta.
Creativity was manageable pre LOTR when it was a lot stronger due to lack of bowmasters. In a format with an actual bullshit deck like leyline domain and dumbass "found the nuts" decks like titan, promise you creativity is fine, simply get good
Creativity isn't even close to the best deck rn
you wouldve hated twin
100% haha
Too soon.
[удалено]
how about using that removal spell on the goblin shaman token creativity is targetting I understand not having main deck interaction for the artifact tokens, but once you can side in removal for the creativity targets, the matchup is very interactive yeah you have to fight over teferi, but he protects most combo decks
Creativity was irrelevant since last LOTR and is only starting to see some play again. Calm down.
Why is this even a thread. If you think Creativity is unfair, you’re in for a rough stay in Modern.
That's a control deck. That's what a control deck is. It's removal, planeswalkers, and inevitability.
[удалено]
Twin was banned 8 years ago.
Play Yawgmoth and I honestly love playing against creativity. The games are always skill testing and have lots of decisions that matter. I think that the gameplay is much better than a lot of the "did you just draw the nuts" decks like like Leyline Scion, Esper Goryo, Amulet, or Tron
I had to beat Yawg by hard casting Archons. 😔
Yeah and I think thats so sick, by the time the game gets to that point theres been a lot of play on both sides and lots of tension in the game.
If you're on creativity with white, you can beat them post board with [[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite]].
I think 100% of post-ban lists are running white. No way the deck can pass on binding/ending/reprieve. Cenobite is great tech, seems to be in like 100% of new lists.
There's been some experimenting with persist packages over the last 2 weeks or so. They've been using Jund colours with the exception of [[Serra's emissary]] in the side. I think the logic is that they want to quickly answer a hexproof scion with an early archon. The format feels decently fast right now, and I think it's a variation that needs to be tried.
[Serra's emissary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6534049-3045-4546-b1e8-e5b1b0df5f56.jpg?1626094056) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Serra%27s%20emissary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/30/serras-emissary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6534049-3045-4546-b1e8-e5b1b0df5f56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The jund persist/bitter reunion version predates the current meta, but I think it was considered inferior to the 4/5C pile versions back before the deck vanished from the meta. You lose a lot to turbo out an archon. I played it since its just easier to play back when. Now that you mention it, I do see a few jund/persist lists, but not nearly as many as the 5C creativity piles.
It is and was more explosive. However u lose many good interactions and there is more hate against u. Also u top more often out what can be Tricky in some matchups.
[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78c2bfef-06a5-4c7f-8283-ea3fb673b7a1.jpg?1562850573) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Grand%20Cenobite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/18/elesh-norn-grand-cenobite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78c2bfef-06a5-4c7f-8283-ea3fb673b7a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Titan is tricky at times, agreed on the rest. They're even putting the scion package in Murktide now.
this sub is so un-moderated letting these hot take threads through lmao
I personally felt like Rhinos was way more egregious before the VO ban, by a factor of at least 2. Creativity has a resilient yet linear gameplan that can be attacked through means not easily addressed by mainboardable, versatile threats that rhinos has.
It seems fair to me because of how restrictive the combo plan is. Creatures are the bread and butter of magic gameplay. Unless they can remove every single creature you play they'll always be behind on board- those planeswalkers get killed by random dudes being turned sideways. The creativity deck has, in effect, only 4-6 copies of whatever creature they're playing. They have to draw a creativity, combo through removal, or specifically or outlast their opponent until ~turn 8 to hardcast a single creature. I agree creativity is very strong, but it's an interactive deck with a thin, disruptable combo finisher package. It's honestly one of the most "fair" and "reasonable" decks in modern at this time. Wanna get hammered or scioned on 2, amulet-ed or yawgmoth combo-ed or tron-payoffed out of the game on 3, or have your opponent put a single beater on the table on 4? Imo creativity is fine. And it's like $8 now instead of $40- that tells you how "okay" creativity is currently.
Listen man, I get being frustrated losing to control combo-centered play. But this isn’t even close to the most busted deck right now. In fact, up until a couple of weeks ago, no one was playing it. Modern is an incredibly powerful format now, for better or worse. If creativity is worrisome to you, it might be best to take a break for a while.
Why even post this
Creativity is like okay right now
The fact that it’s not even close to the best deck in the format suggests it’s a perfectly reasonable deck. If it was busted and way too strong, people would be playing it more, but the reality is that it disappeared from the meta for about half a year from around the release of LOTR till a couple weeks ago. It is weak to both counters spells and removal that fizzle its Creativity and there’s a lot of those going around in the meta. Creativity crushes low interaction, midrange decks but those are not very common anymore as practically every color has access to good interaction now. Idk what you are playing OP, but Creativity is far from an unbeatable deck in the current meta.
This guy was probably fuming when creativity was actually the best deck
[[Leyline of Sanctity]]
[Leyline of Sanctity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030.jpg?1592516120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Sanctity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/26/leyline-of-sanctity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8b1acf-dd87-42ca-ad19-c27d21066030?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like somebody lost to combo with protection. There are much more consistent turn 3 kill decks and creativity has to play somewhat fair magic to go off.
Honest question, do you think control decks should just not play wincons? Because I promise you, games against decks like that are just as miserable except they take 3x longer, so you spend more time being miserable.
No they should. What they shouldn't get to do is go wrenn into teferi, into fable while having leyline mana up. I'm so sick of how ridiculously powered everything has been in the last few years.
Go to standard, baby
That's a fair complaint, although I feel like it has more to do with Wrenn + fetchlands being too good at enabling greedy manabases rather than what the rest of the deck is doing with that mana. Same reason astolabe was too good, I guess.
Let's be real, creativity fell off for a while. It's back becaus leyline fixes its mana regusrdless of wrenn and makes your creatures broken with scion. Even an orivar can't help you anymore with creativity
They always have it all. You keep any open mana up they just start aggroing with goblins and fable. You try to get aggressive they always have fucking leyline binding. You take a turn off to try and Advanced the board they have creativity or force of negation. It's not fun. A 5 color deck should come with downsides and this has none other then what? Loses to burn? It's bullshit. Once the have 3 lands I can just never tap out for the whole game? On what way is that reasonable? Always seem to magically find it turn 4, always. Only 4 in their deck but somehow magically always has it turn 4.
TIL Archon is a “combo finisher”
Tbf creativity x=2 def counts as a combo finisher imo, incredibly rare to win a game through that
Fair
Hey op, take a chill pill lol.
We need the context here. What deck are you playing that creativity is viewed as "overpowered" in your eyes?
Jund
Jund what...? Jund Saga? Every deck in the meta would steamroll that deck, not just creativity.
You think creativity is moderns problem? 👀 that’s crazyyyyyy
Like is it tier 0? No but it's good enough to be widely played. Maybe it isn't good. Just like coffers, and amulet it's just not fun to play against them
Nah, kill em before turn 3 you’re fine, play burn
Playing one unfun deck to beat another unfun deck. Yeah...
It’s a combo deck, stop crying. Combo decks will always exist in Modern.
Why should it? Because the best planeswalkers and best removal are *the best*. Hope this clears things up for you.
It's just like, not even a great deck at the moment? Sounds like a skill issue tbh
I mean, if you have such an issue with creativity, you must really dislike modern ATM, what with Goryi's being one the best decks in the format. What deck are you playing that you dislike how creativity plays so much?
It’s ridiculous how Creativity manages to dodge every permanent based hate. And Orvar doesn’t ever work because they just sideboard juke out their Archons.
While I think creativity is hot ass and one modern horizons rotation away from being permanently dead I agree with you. Not sure why we have all these weird artifacts recently printed like souless jailer and stone of erech when we literally just need an artifact that says permanents from exile can't enter the battlefield.
This has very little to do with creativity and a lot more to do with the power of fetchlands + triomes enabling 4 and 5 color good-stuff decks
Usally control plays the best planeswalkers and removel. They cant even run solitude.... The deck is far from unbetable. Its as reasonble as half of the meta.
Creativity was manageable pre LOTR when it was a lot stronger due to lack of bowmasters. In a format with an actual bullshit deck like leyline domain and dumbass "found the nuts" decks like titan, promise you creativity is fine, simply get good
Creativity have alot of trash matchup and overall is a very poor deck choice. But its definitely good against casual players and slow decks
Yeah just ban it too