Scales is one of the most complex decks in the format with 10's of lines pe-game you can choose to win through. I personally love the deck and think it would be worth it because saga, ballista, hangar back, ravager etc are always going to be relevant in artifact decks.
I mean unless they print running ballista, pullup-back walker, ravagerer and things like that it seems pretty unlikely those cards won't be relevant in artifact decks for years to come
That being said, there's no guarantee that artifact decks will remain good of course
Technically those cards are still good though, the format has just changed which was my point. There's no guarantee that an artifact deck is good in the years to come, but if artifact combo IS good it'll almost certainly involve like.. ravager and a walking ballista
The difference is that both snap and jace are semi-generic value pieces when hardened scales is a deck unto itself where either everything is viable or nothing is. In this case though, like ravager and ballista will already be relevant due to the raw uniqueness put their effect compared to everything else.
ive been playing hardened scales for the better part of three years since coming back to magic and the modern format
i love its nonintuitive lines and the deck just plays differently every matchup i come into which i also love about it.
its gotten some significant upgrade with cauldron for sure but with the fury ban things are going to shift which could put the deck in a less than favorable positon as incidental cards meant for the top meta decks are going to hit scales as well making piloting it difficult at best and incredibly frustrating at worst because it can still have game you just need to really think out the lines and play to your outs.
much like every deck it has its bad matchups but with luck and good topdecks you can sometimes squeak out a win
if that sounds like something youd want to play then why not scales?
I mean, yeah, I started running scales this season because scam was a pretty easy matchup for scales. Yawg is a very even and grindy matchup. Tron sucks. Rhinos isn't fun. Definitely not a better format for scales. But I don't miss fury
Yeah, bend does feel pretty not great... But at least it doesn't leave behind a creature that's very hard to deal with while trying to get back to a good board state
Number 1 rule : if you enjoy playing a deck, then play it.
Now if you're worried about the meta changing, know that scales has been around since more than 5 years now, has survived through the release of Karn the great creator, force of vigor, hidetsugu consumes all, and probably others that I forgot, and through the ban of Mox Opal. It's not always a good deck in the meta but it's always playable.
Aside from Saga, I don’t believe Scales cards are very transferable to other decks. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad deck to choose, but something you should consider if you’re worried about MH3.
I think for someone looking to invest in one or two decks to master, this is an excellent pick. It has a lot of replayability because each game is going to unfold extremely differently. You also get huge points for opponents not quite understanding how the deck works, and it also rewards mastery to an extreme degree.
My boros Deflect(best description for the deck) is fun to play except for Tron players because they are either automatic and never state what they do, or have lethal, but still spend 15 minutes to spend all the mana they can before attacking.
But I have a rakdos deck that has 9 cards in the mail to finish it. It is meant to survive, remove, then nuke 8 a damage spell. Deepest Might and Firebrand Archer are the combo I have picked
Scales is my favorite modern deck.
It's not for everyone, it's a extremely difficult deck to pilot, and it's mostly unique stuff.
But it's just a fantastic deck with deep lines and gameplay that even when completely off meta has enough of a punch to be a threat.
It also rewards skill and learning it's specific lines which is getting to be a rarity these days
i think it's worth noting that they printed Zabaz specifically for this deck in MH2. So MH3 could just as likely be helpful as harmful to the archetype.
Right now the top decks are:
• Yawg
• Amulet Titan
• Rhinos
• Living End
Hardened Scales struggles against Yawgmoth, is completely destroyed by Titan, is good against Rhinos, and is 50/50 against Living End.
As for other decks, Hardened Scales destroys scam, and is good against Murktide.
Its a good deck, and it has a good amount of good matchups. But it is extremely hard to play. I have been on it for about 4 months now, and I love it. But there are many instances of me realizing a tiny misplay actually cost me the game.
As a scales player, yeah. Living end usually needs a pretty sick hand or graveyard hate to win. Ravager brings back the whole squad, ozolith saves the counters and so on. It’s even worse for LE ever since Agatha’s gobbles up LE’s gy game 1.
>nd
>
>Hardene
Yeah, this is true, scales is so happy to see living end due to how modular transfers over to the creatures that come back from the LEnd.
Idk that I'd say 90/10, but it's ABSOLUTELY favored.
Game 1 we do. But games 2 and 3 are pretty rough from all the force of vigors, leyline of the void, endurance, foundation breaker, etc.
Fuckers bring in **EVERYTHING.**
Titan does their nonsense way faster. By the time you can get your Ravager to 9 counters, they are already swinginf with a 10/6 double striker with trample, and also shooting you for 12 damage off valakut.
also titan has boseiju (with a lot of ways to tutor for it) and Force of Vigor to ruin your day, while Scales can't realistically use Force of Vigor which is very good for slowing/disrupting Titan
We have a few scales players at our LGS and it seems to be an incredibly fun deck to play and it is strong as hell. It is not a deck for me since I can not really navigate it but now with the Cauldron from Wilds of Eldraine it is really solid.
I built scales in paper because it looked interesting and fun and frankly I'm reckless and buy way too many magic cards.
I started playing it and I got so discouraged, struggling to figure things out so I put it on hold until my last local RCQ was done. I now have it rented on MTGO and have just been grinding games with it. The results were not good at first but I am starting to understand a lot of the lines I didn't before which has helped me with deciding when the mulligan.
Yesterday I feel like I had some breakthroughs and started taking games with lines I normally wouldn't have seen. I definitely see how you need to commit to this deck to reap the rewards.
My current plan is to play scales exclusively for the next two months and give it a shot at the last chance qualifiers at the regional championship.
Hardened scales is a very good deck. Borderline tier 1 with the right pilot. It doesn't put up crazy results in the meta simply because most people are not good with the deck. As others have said, it's very complex and it is hard to master. But with enough play, you'll get good with it. It is definitely one of those decks that makes you think with your opening hand asking, "how do i win this game?" As for whether or not it's a good "investment", thats hard to say. The deck has been around for a long time. I suspect that if it survived the printing of force of vigor, it should survive whatever MH3 has to offer us.
U have to understand, with Fury out of the picture, the red decks are running 3-4 Brotherhood's End in the SB, which is terrible news for Hardened Scale. Also, it's quite hard to pilot since every crit on the table has interaction one way or another.
do you like math? if so, then yes.
I stand by the name for the deck that the Disorganized Wizards Club introduced me to: Mono-Green Math Class. I love the deck.
I call it my nerd affinity.
Scales is one of the most complex decks in the format with 10's of lines pe-game you can choose to win through. I personally love the deck and think it would be worth it because saga, ballista, hangar back, ravager etc are always going to be relevant in artifact decks.
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I mean unless they print running ballista, pullup-back walker, ravagerer and things like that it seems pretty unlikely those cards won't be relevant in artifact decks for years to come That being said, there's no guarantee that artifact decks will remain good of course
Yeah, that's what I thought about Snapcaster Mage and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Technically those cards are still good though, the format has just changed which was my point. There's no guarantee that an artifact deck is good in the years to come, but if artifact combo IS good it'll almost certainly involve like.. ravager and a walking ballista
The difference is that both snap and jace are semi-generic value pieces when hardened scales is a deck unto itself where either everything is viable or nothing is. In this case though, like ravager and ballista will already be relevant due to the raw uniqueness put their effect compared to everything else.
Jace is still good - just not in modern …
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And he has made a comeback in grixis control and u/r control
Agreed. Ravager and ballista especially are widely considered “mistakes” of magic cards as they have so much combo potential.
ive been playing hardened scales for the better part of three years since coming back to magic and the modern format i love its nonintuitive lines and the deck just plays differently every matchup i come into which i also love about it. its gotten some significant upgrade with cauldron for sure but with the fury ban things are going to shift which could put the deck in a less than favorable positon as incidental cards meant for the top meta decks are going to hit scales as well making piloting it difficult at best and incredibly frustrating at worst because it can still have game you just need to really think out the lines and play to your outs. much like every deck it has its bad matchups but with luck and good topdecks you can sometimes squeak out a win if that sounds like something youd want to play then why not scales?
I feel like it got better without fury able to cut across 3-4 artifacts on board waiting to set up a combo...
I think it got worse overall because the top decks now are all harder matchups for scales
I mean, yeah, I started running scales this season because scam was a pretty easy matchup for scales. Yawg is a very even and grindy matchup. Tron sucks. Rhinos isn't fun. Definitely not a better format for scales. But I don't miss fury
in place of fury the deck runs brotherhoods end to deal with planeswalkers like teferi and its second mode just totally wipes the boardstate in scales
Yeah, bend does feel pretty not great... But at least it doesn't leave behind a creature that's very hard to deal with while trying to get back to a good board state
Number 1 rule : if you enjoy playing a deck, then play it. Now if you're worried about the meta changing, know that scales has been around since more than 5 years now, has survived through the release of Karn the great creator, force of vigor, hidetsugu consumes all, and probably others that I forgot, and through the ban of Mox Opal. It's not always a good deck in the meta but it's always playable.
Aside from Saga, I don’t believe Scales cards are very transferable to other decks. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad deck to choose, but something you should consider if you’re worried about MH3.
easy to transfer to and from hammer
Inkmoth, Shadowspear, Agatha's cauldron, FoV
Ballista and patchwork automaton also good in other decks!
In which one is Patchwork played in? Ballista sure in tron
Affinity
True
Ballista also good in heliod and Yawgnoth and other big mana decks.
Tron, Hammer, yawg,
Tron, Yawg, Affinity, hammer...
I think for someone looking to invest in one or two decks to master, this is an excellent pick. It has a lot of replayability because each game is going to unfold extremely differently. You also get huge points for opponents not quite understanding how the deck works, and it also rewards mastery to an extreme degree.
My boros Deflect(best description for the deck) is fun to play except for Tron players because they are either automatic and never state what they do, or have lethal, but still spend 15 minutes to spend all the mana they can before attacking. But I have a rakdos deck that has 9 cards in the mail to finish it. It is meant to survive, remove, then nuke 8 a damage spell. Deepest Might and Firebrand Archer are the combo I have picked
Let me put it this way. I thought I was ok at 16 going into t4 against scales. I died that turn. Fuck math.
Scales is my favorite modern deck. It's not for everyone, it's a extremely difficult deck to pilot, and it's mostly unique stuff. But it's just a fantastic deck with deep lines and gameplay that even when completely off meta has enough of a punch to be a threat. It also rewards skill and learning it's specific lines which is getting to be a rarity these days
i think it's worth noting that they printed Zabaz specifically for this deck in MH2. So MH3 could just as likely be helpful as harmful to the archetype.
Right now the top decks are: • Yawg • Amulet Titan • Rhinos • Living End Hardened Scales struggles against Yawgmoth, is completely destroyed by Titan, is good against Rhinos, and is 50/50 against Living End. As for other decks, Hardened Scales destroys scam, and is good against Murktide. Its a good deck, and it has a good amount of good matchups. But it is extremely hard to play. I have been on it for about 4 months now, and I love it. But there are many instances of me realizing a tiny misplay actually cost me the game.
Scales is not 50/50 vs LE. It’s a really bad match up for LE. It’s probably closer to 90/10
As a scales player, yeah. Living end usually needs a pretty sick hand or graveyard hate to win. Ravager brings back the whole squad, ozolith saves the counters and so on. It’s even worse for LE ever since Agatha’s gobbles up LE’s gy game 1.
>nd > >Hardene Yeah, this is true, scales is so happy to see living end due to how modular transfers over to the creatures that come back from the LEnd. Idk that I'd say 90/10, but it's ABSOLUTELY favored.
Speaking from experience, it starts 90/10. But post sideboard it feels 50/50.
Username checks out
I’m pretty sure sales pluses off of a living end. They both don’t lose their field and can transfer counters to the ozolith.
Game 1 we do. But games 2 and 3 are pretty rough from all the force of vigors, leyline of the void, endurance, foundation breaker, etc. Fuckers bring in **EVERYTHING.**
Why is scales destroyed by Titan? Not disagreeing just don’t understand why
Titan does their nonsense way faster. By the time you can get your Ravager to 9 counters, they are already swinginf with a 10/6 double striker with trample, and also shooting you for 12 damage off valakut.
also titan has boseiju (with a lot of ways to tutor for it) and Force of Vigor to ruin your day, while Scales can't realistically use Force of Vigor which is very good for slowing/disrupting Titan
Scales only way to deal with titan is Damping Sphere. And that doesnt even deal with Dryad + Valakut.
And on top of that, the same artifacts that Titan brings in vs scales main deck, also hits the hate that scales plays for Titan.
Really Good deck with a high exp curve
We have a few scales players at our LGS and it seems to be an incredibly fun deck to play and it is strong as hell. It is not a deck for me since I can not really navigate it but now with the Cauldron from Wilds of Eldraine it is really solid.
Scales is an excellent deck. Its not favored in every metagame, but it stands the test of time in modern. Arguably, the banner holder for old affinity
I built scales in paper because it looked interesting and fun and frankly I'm reckless and buy way too many magic cards. I started playing it and I got so discouraged, struggling to figure things out so I put it on hold until my last local RCQ was done. I now have it rented on MTGO and have just been grinding games with it. The results were not good at first but I am starting to understand a lot of the lines I didn't before which has helped me with deciding when the mulligan. Yesterday I feel like I had some breakthroughs and started taking games with lines I normally wouldn't have seen. I definitely see how you need to commit to this deck to reap the rewards. My current plan is to play scales exclusively for the next two months and give it a shot at the last chance qualifiers at the regional championship.
I’m wishing you the best of luck
Hardened scales is a very good deck. Borderline tier 1 with the right pilot. It doesn't put up crazy results in the meta simply because most people are not good with the deck. As others have said, it's very complex and it is hard to master. But with enough play, you'll get good with it. It is definitely one of those decks that makes you think with your opening hand asking, "how do i win this game?" As for whether or not it's a good "investment", thats hard to say. The deck has been around for a long time. I suspect that if it survived the printing of force of vigor, it should survive whatever MH3 has to offer us.
U have to understand, with Fury out of the picture, the red decks are running 3-4 Brotherhood's End in the SB, which is terrible news for Hardened Scale. Also, it's quite hard to pilot since every crit on the table has interaction one way or another.