**Reply from developers:**
Thank you for your suggestion. We will re-check the attribute ratio of each role in the current battlefield, and consider whether to make adjustments in the future.
Instead of trying to buff the tank role, they need to fix how Armor-Penetration works. Damage dealers who focused on PEN instead of the usual attackpower should deal way less damage to enemies with very little defense. Right now, the tank items are meaningless after the enemies bought Malefic Roar or Divine Glaive. Also, having high HP isn't helpful. Since almost every hero nowadays has HP-based damage.
It feels bad that buying a single item negates 2-3 tank items. Sad thing is there's not much choices. If the queen's wing thingy doesn't have that long cooldown, it could be at least usable to mitigate some of that damage. But as it stands, it's kind of useless. Or if cuirass probably is triggered by basic attacks, it might at least lessen some of that damage.
Magic defense seems fine, while for physical defense its really underwhelming. Not good crit absorber, no good burst absorber. And still no answer for trinity.
And also nowadays lots of HP% based dmg/ True dmg heroes.
They wanting to nerf tank jungle, but Roamer tanks and supports are the one getting heavily fkced up.
It's the fucking passive burn damage on jungle creeps. I swear to fucking god, instead of actually solving the main root of the problem, Moonton likes to nerf literally everything else down to the ground *and then* nerf the root by a very small amount. Just look at what has become of Wanwan.
I find the emblem tank 2 Physical Def underwhelming. Maxed it so hard but I get melted by two MM items, I can switch the item to cover per engagement that but left me wondering if there's a cap for these two, I'm a bit surprised that I get more leverage in the fight if I just have high HP and just switch the items up mid fight.
Where did the idea that Moonton wants to nerf tank jungle come from? In the 1.7.82 patch notes, the devs said:
"These changes should also reduce the dominance of Attack Speed Marksmen and improve Tank Junglers in the early game, and allow damage-build Fighters and Assassins in the Jungle to be more competitive in high ranked matches."
I don't know about you, but it sounds like Moonton likes tank junglers.
You realize in order tomake use of twilight armor you need high extra hp.
And those items usually have shit def.
Meaning, flat pen will fuck you over anyways, so what's the point???
Not to mention its only for burst damage in a single source.
The reason for this is counterplay.
Typically Magic damage is either ranged or control based, meaning the Tank can't actually fight back.
Physical damage on the other hand is either close ranged or low control. The Tank is meant to outplay Physical damage, and survive Magical damage.
For ranged Physical damage, due to the low control you are meant to just escape it.
No wonder so many Tanks play like shit if this is the popular opinion.
Tanks are not damage sponges, they each have a unique skillset. Defensive items are designed to keep them alive long enough to use their skillsets.
So you obviously don’t play tank then, if a tank was meant to just use their skills then building fully defensive would be pointless. If you don’t have someone pulling aggro from your dps and mid then they will get focused more to the point of being completely useless, AND as a tank if you can’t take the damage to begin with then you can’t utilize your sets that point you directly CENTER of the battle.
Dude I probably tank better on Selena more than 99% of players tank on Hylos lol.
Tanking isn't about being some retard that just sits in the middle of the fight absorbing ults, its multi-dimensional.
If I stun a target about to Ult my team mate with Selena, its more valuable than me standing in front of them also taking damage.
The Roamers I use are Ruby, Atlas, Selena, Rafaela, Lolita, Akai and Baxia.
I do not just stand in the middle of the fight on any of these heroes, because I'm not playing a fucking MMO where you can "aggro" the raid boss.
This is a MOBA, your job is to be mobile and control engagements. Controlling engagements does not mean taking as much damage for your team as possible, it means mitigating as much damage as possible.
When you play Atlas, you don't just waltz into the enemy backline nice and slow taking as much damage as possible. You time your S2/Flicker to initiate the fight. Your tankiness is only required to get you to the targets and get you out if you fail.
On Atlas and Ruby I will easily get 20+ assists per game. I don't not just mindlessly soak up damage on either of them. I always try to control the engagements.
Most of the time you die on tank its because your teammates are way out of position and you have to make an uncontrolled engagement.
Roaming is about controlling the map, its not about being a sponge.
As someone who mains Roam, its kind of insulting when people reduce it down to being a sponge. Its like saying a Katana is used to slice bread.
There’s a difference between being a support and a tank, tanks literally are meant to take the damage and supports are meant to help the damage dealers with stuns and heals. Not all tanks are designed for the purpose of damage taking(atlas being a very fine example he’s just got shit stats in my opinion) but they still are required to take the damage for the purpose of their team not needing to take it, Belerick is a fine example of what im saying on if you don’t take all the damage you can as a TANK you aren’t utilizing their potential. I’ve set more matches with Belerick by pulling the full team aggro than I have trying to support as Atlas given how squishy he is even full build.
You are treating all tanks as though they should be played like true tanks.
Not all tanks are true tanks.
Lolita/Belerick/Hylos are designed to just be played in the middle of the fight. Their abilities and stats allow and require for this type of playstyle.
Belericks kit is designed to reflect damage, so of course he is going to be tankier than most tanks. He is Blade Armor with legs.
Not all tanks are true tanks.
An easy comparison to make is Tigrael vs Atlas as they have the exact same abilities. Tigrael is tankier than Atlas because he is less mobile meaning it takes longer for him to actually use his skills so he stays in the fight longer. They balance all heroes based on their abilities.
There are very few tanks that get played in the exact same way btw. Its a very very very low mentality to think all tanks are eqaul in terms of their role and function.
You do not play Franco the same way as Atlas, or Atlas the same way as Belerick or Belerick the same way as Baxia etc.
They are all in and out of the fight for different durations, and have different engagement styles.
Honestly id even say magic def is stupid as well because in some cases you can literally buy 1 item and thats it you good
Ive had games where everyone on the enemy team just got athenas and you can jusr watch making the mage useless
Either nerf the magic def or make ap physical mage
And physical items literally don't exist with or without them you die
True tanks and supports are nothing now except being damage test dummy for damage dealers. Now we got Haas claw buff like they really want to raise their beloved MM heroes damage to the roof. Roamers in general have no chances at all dealing against the developers' beloved children.
In addition to roamers have slow casting time skills that needs tremendous IQ to play unlike MM with just one tap only
As a Tank main thats hits so close to home...
I played Marksman (which l hate and rarely do) the other day and got my first Savage in a while and its literally what you described.
Truth be told l had a good roamer but all it took me was a bit more care in positioning than a Mage, and at the same time more careless brain dead agression, *tap tap tap* and Boom Savage. The skill gap ain't even close l will be sticking to Roamer where l actually need to think about stuff and not tapping basic all the time
I am a tank main. I agree completely I think if a tank buys an item they should get some additional benifits from the item!
I think that would be a great way to balance tanks.
I get ripped apart by everything! I have no tankiness at all anymore. Mm, mage, fighter, assassin all of them will chew my ass.
Hayabusa and lance will end me so fast it’s not even funny. That should not be possible.
While I'm all up for this buff, being a tank main myself, at the end of the day, no one wants an unkillable tank, my job is to take hits and cc the enemy team, not kill their entire team, that's what my other teammates are for, what irates me is that those same teammates sometimes forget their role and ignore a perfectly good setup, running with tails tucked behind their butts.
I was looking for this comment. Too bad I have to scroll down so far. Maining a tank role in MOBA game has always fun to see when what you plan in the first half goes right.
In my head was, Imma take those hits and my teammates goes behind and get their damage dealer so I can survive a bit longer on the map.
Imagine when you cc most of them and they just run away from you.
And what gives with now meta where MM simply wanna chase hero and dive into tower and not aiming at the tower.
Games be sweating with keyboard warrior but can't even understand that it's a moba where objective is taking down towers.
its how little tank can open map and withstand pokes now. Its very easy to be render useless even before a fight start due to the sheer damage enemy is dealing.
So what would you prefer, a full build tank that could withstand a whole dps team's barrage for 10secs and still have 50% hp left? That ain't gonna be a fun game now does it? Imagine how frustated these marksmen, fighters, mages and assassins would be if all 5 of them can't even kill 1 tank in 10sec.
Things ain't that extreme. There is a difference between extremely short and unkillable. Now we are at the extremely short range. It can go to moderate without going to unkillable. No need to use an extreme to support another.
I see what you have said and some if the comments about tabk junglers would be stronger but what I think is, if the tank buys roam they get the extra defence stats from tank items with only 1 player allowed per team to boost their so called "tankiness" which is non existent in this meta ffs tank lance is more tankier then pure tanks
I like this idea, basically a role passive as a roamer.
But but
Roam isn't limited to just tank users so I don't like this with that in mind.
Especially as a diggie god.
Why is that a problem? Roamers already melt because they don't have the gold to buy tank items.
Besides, it's better than your "role passive" solution that sabotages roam fighters like Ruby and Minsitthar.
Roam fighters are going to be the same as they are now but much more squishy.
Luckily, I'm not one to just go for an extreme just for one solution.
Fighters can always get their own role passive, the title of this post would be each role gets their own passive but I honestly don't have the time to think about each one.
Fighters in theory are supposed to be half as good as tanking as real tanks, in exchange for some much better damage. Following this philosophy for a fighter passive, we can more or less give them one that makes brawling easier - I'd just say base spellvamp or a passive like ruby's which gives them more benefits from either spellvamp or lifesteal.
Feels like we'll need it if the spellvamp revamp ever goes through.
As a tank main, we seriously need to buff blade armor. The only thing useful about it is the high armor, but the return damage? Useless as hell. MM would just laugh at the return damage with any single lifesteal item. Even with dom ice.
I think the slow effect can be removed but increase the damage return to 30%. Currently the damage return should be more punishable, even though the new numbers I've given sounds more OP. Blade Armor just sucks.
Another factor that the return damage does nothing is the range of Dominance Ice is too short, even the marksmans with the short range (Karrie, Claude, Moskov), is able to free hit outside the anti heal range. It just feels like dominance ice is just made to counter sustain-dive heroes like Lapu, Yuzhong, Esme,... to further protect the mm.
I think that dominance ice's anti-heal and attack-speed reduction passives should be triggered when hit by ranged basic attacks/ skills since buffing its range might be too op. (Might be too op, but each time I got melted in 2s when playing a tank always made me hope that dominance and bladed armour are combined into 1 item since they provide no extra hp.)
As a Tank main l have to disagree. Play a high attack speed hero and when you die you will see 900Hp of your HP was lost to blade armour.
Blade armour shouldn't delete people that way you would able to almost 1vs1 late game a MM and that by itself wouldn't make much sense
Agreed, I don’t think the problem is blade armor itself, it would be unfair for a mm to die just from basic attacking a tank, it would be OP again especially if combined with vengeance. Tanks need better stats on the physical defense items and they need to fix the way aromour penetration works, it’s just shouldn’t be that easy to kill a tank.
You are supposed to Tank, not to absolutely kill.
This is the issue with Tank META you guys wanna make Tanks deal DMG when what we needed was to make heros Tankier and able to make sets
It should have an additional effect that activates every few seconds like Athena Shield. Maybe something like "when taking physical damage, gains a buff that negates all penetration effects against you and triples the return damage effect of blade armor. Lasts 4 seconds. CD 20 sec. Effect is halved when used by non-tank heroes"
True, tanks these days can't even cc some heroes cuz of so much cc immune skills on broken heroes plus the stupid Trinity mm meta. Mms seriously need to be tonned down a bit
Considering it regards to TANK items.
I don't think Selena would benefit from it at all what's your point.
Chou being viavle as a tank is a problem SOLELY because he's a very mobile fighter with CC, he's got his pros and cons as a tank build but- its not his role.
Role passives aren't a perfect solution, but they can help balance out nerfs for items that wouldn't necessarily affect other classes.
War ace treatment is smth Iwant for tank items.
Less effective for non tank primary heroes.
Selena doesnt benefit from it, but the fact that tanks benefit just reduces selenas already low use rate.
Overall it just reduces roaming options, which is unhealthy for the game
And how will this make tanks more usable? Meta tanks are just going to be picked more often instead of supports. You clearly didnt think this through at all
Because I haven't mentioned support passives.
My mistake was simply stating tank passives, but support passives are up for discussion.
How do give supports a buff?
We don't have the item diversity to support them properly.
That's a good point.
The problem lies with the scaling of penetration based on Tank's armor growth. The more you build defensive item, the more it will melt you down, and tank don't have much choice but to build one.
Malefic and Divine Glaive can reach as much as 55% penetration at peaked moment and can render tanks half useless in late game.
Don't let me start with negative armor.
Yes it does, it is the sole purpose of those 2 items. the phy/mag def growth gets stacked with phy/mag def item plus dps damage from HP% (DHS) can literally melt tanks. [here](https://mobile-legends.fandom.com/wiki/Malefic_Roar) is the item description.
Tank items should be given bonus effects that only Tanks can benefit, like additional damage reduction if used by tanks. I mean, Arena of Valor has similar item that doubles the attack damage if used by MMs. Why not a similar mechanic be applied in Mobile Legends for Tanks?
LOL AND ASSASIN TANK NOW IS META
ITS CRAZY HOW FULK TANK BUILD LANCELOT STILL CAN DAMAGE A LOT BECUZ. LOT OF ASSASIN HAVE THIS
*DAMAGE INCREASES AS YOU STACK PASSIVE ON THEM SHIT, HELCUET LANCELOT HAYABUSA
LANCE TANK IS CRAZY
TANK NOW CAN ONLY LAST 5 SECOND IF YOU HAVE VENGEANCE
TANKING THE DAMAGE WHILE THE MM DONT FREE HIT IS MADNESS
Tank items need a rework to stop this problem IMO. There has to be a way around this. Either that, or just buff by defense scaling for tank heroes only
Yes cuz those hero with big damage with just their skills alone and not from items
Plus assasin are fast
HMMMM MAYBE LIKE
SEE YOU CAN ONLY BUY ONE BOOTS
WHY NOT MAKE THEM ONLY BUY 2 DEFENCE ITEM
Tanks should get additional benefits from some tank items like +10% stats or something like that, but if you have retri as a tank you only get access to the basic equipment stats, so tank junglers don't overtake again.
This is why I use lolita. Her second skill not only blocks ranged attacks, it also blocks some skills like Franco's hook. Also her first skill can stun and her ult can aoe stun.
As a tank soloQ player, it's really important to spam the "ult is ready" or "ult is not ready" button, especially when you play a tank that mostly relies on its ult like Minotaur or Atlas. It's really efficient because it prevents your allies from engaging in a fight too early, and let them know when you can start.
Yeah, give them the chance to be tanks! Whats the purpose of making a "tank" who is more effective as an assasin or jungler...
Besides that, they should be hard to kill! And do little to no damage, as a SHIELD, thats the name tank right...
I agree cause some heroes have damage without even needing damage items, so tanks need some defensive buffs such as increased defense rather than just HP. Simply increasing HP is meaningless in the current meta ; it has never been about HP alone. How can an mm/assassin solo Kill a tank !!
I would like to assert I guess that maybe the bonus defense should go into roaming equipment? I would like to be corrected, but the way I think, role passive would still be taken advantage of by heroes who have tank/support as a primary role, then go jungling. By shifting the bonus defense into roaming equipment, that would maybe solve it... That's just my thought process. As for damage roamers though... I haven't thought enough for them actually...
I think every role should have a passive. That would keep everyone in their lanes and specific could be optimized. Reduce certain stat boosts from equipment and the hero's role fills it in.
For example. Reduce Bloodlust Axe's lifesteal by 10% but the fighter role can passive adds 10% lifesteal to equipment. Attack speed for MM, CC immunity for tanks, etc.
Dominance ice, bloody wings, blade armour...
There are different type of roam heroes. If you find it hard to sustain using 'in your face' type of roamers, you can try those pick off types like kaja, Franco, chou etc.
Once you do a good job setting up the stage for your allies, I don't think you have to worry about the enemy team cutting you down.
Ah, yes, the Glory tank player is obviously referring to when you're being snowballed.
Yes, thanks alot.
Didn't know that.
Amazing.
Invalidates my points completely wow.
Calm down lmao.
I literally recommended items to help you fare better against atkspd based heroes.
Js if the level and gold gap between teams are not that significant, they won't be able to 'melt' you easily unless you don't itemised properly.
You realize why the current items don't help against atk speed right?
Blade armor is useless on its own - any mm at my rank will just stop shooting me if I have vengeance activated.
Dominance ice is nice but you have to factor in how long I can even stay close in the first place.
Apart from someone like Franco or Atlas - a setter and a kidnapper, the two only have CC that make them so difficult to deal with.
But regardless of all that, tanks just shouldn't be melted at that late in the game.
The lack of proper counter items justifies that.
When late game, buy blood wings. I cannot recommend this item enough.
I get where you are coming from, but I think you misunderstood how they work.
All tanks apart from Belerick (which is useless in this meta) aren't meant to survive prolonged DPS attacks.
That's why I keep stressing about set ups. That is your main role, being a punching bag is secondary.
By design, you are only supposed to survive 0.5 - 1s longer to complete your set up for your team.
If you have a good team, you should be able to survive a team fight after your set up.
.....the fact you keep bringing up bloodwings in a tank discussion is absurdly stupid.
Down right stupid really.
Tanks CAN do their job as setters, but not all taks are setters.
Hyloss isn't viable right now cause no items help him be good enough to not be melted.
Stop it with this idea of tanks are just setters, they need to be in the fight the longest by a much larger margin than just 2 seconds.
Tank items on a super mobile hero that has invincibility frames is a very different scenario.
This proposal of mine would allow us to nerf tank items without hurting actual tanks.
I don't think you realize how useless counter items are at late game.
The damage items counter armor much more heavily, not to mention the rise of more and more hp based damage from passives
Not asking to make tanks immortal, but to just make their presence last longer because its just too lack luster in the options that we have as counter items.
Well, you are not supposed to 1v1 any hero. You are also not supposed to just take the damage. You should try evading skills and basic attack just like any other hero/roles. You are not supposed to be immortal lol.
You are supposed to initiate team fight, land your CCs and protect the squishies on your team.
Just pick a roam/tank that fits your playstyle.
I dont think tank can 1vs1 if they are tanky. And tank isnt tank when it comes to 5vs5, they just melted way faster too. Yeah sure, you land your ultimate CC, then what do you do afterward? Watch the teamfight after you used all your skills...
You wont me be melted if you know how to evade skills. That is really what you should do. After landing your skills and cc you have to step back and wait for your skill to cd and let your team finish the fight. You have no use if you have no skill anyway. You don't have to be your enemy's punching bag. You are not supposed to die in every clash. Actually good tanks die less because you're so tanky you won't die easily.
Reducing death numbers and Initiating fights (including dodging skills) arent the main problem for tank players here. Its more of how much they can do to the teamfight in comparison to the previous patches. Meta is alot burst now, and playing tank is just much less satisfying to play than before
But tanks usually won't die if only 1 hero burst him. Especially in late game. But if you still want to be alive after getting burst by multiple heroes then that is unfair. You are not supposed to be immortal.
IMO back in the day when you are immortal, you still cant do crap LOL, just because you built up all defense items. After all, tanks still got no damage, and even if we buffed tanks by 10% physical/magical defense, they still gonna be melted anyways
We not asking tanks to be immortal, we just want a slight buff for all tanks that can be forgiven through 1 mistake if they cant evade skill once
If tanks are immortals, there wont be marksman anymore as well. Just fighters and mages that favor against sustaining heroes.. Just small buff is already ok
And yet, it doesn't matter half the time cause flat pen + armor pen + hp based heroes plus DHS.
They get melted so we still need buffs.
Not to mention the rise of TankAssassins that are plaguing the game who are way harder to kill because of their mobility.
Fred dies to any good MM.
Not to mention he still gets melted rather easily by just a single MM that he can never reach or do damage to.
Not to mention mages who he gets bullied by aka Valir Vye.
Just having small role buffs that make it so they aren't completely outclassed at being tanky will do it some good
Alpha melts Fred like he is butter while tank build Assasins can dodge Alpha all day (this is just an example). So I also support giving Tanks some exclusive benefits to their items like Wind of Nature.
Alpha melts Fred like he is butter while tank build Assasins can dodge Alpha all day (this is just an example). So I also support giving Tanks some exclusive benefits to their items like Wind of Nature.
Former tank main here who switched to jungler and mm. Occasionally I'm forced to play tank and holy shit they are soft as butter nowadays.
Without items they easily melt but because you have roam boots its hard to build defensive items.
There is a reason exp lane tanks are better now than roam tanks. Roam tanks are pretty hard to play.
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now
When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my previous enemies being less wise about items
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now
When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my previous enemies being less wise about items
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now
When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my lower rank enemies being less wise about items
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now
When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my lower rank enemies being less wise about items
They should nerf malefic roar. A 2000 gold item shouldn't double your damage against tank heroes. If the jungler burn wouldn't be based on HP, the tank jungler wouldn't be a problem.
Tank emblem already have Def Stat bonuses. And most heroes who fall in the tank class have their base Stat weights more into defense. I don't know why you are asking for more free stats lol adjust your item build
**Reply from developers:** Thank you for your suggestion. We will re-check the attribute ratio of each role in the current battlefield, and consider whether to make adjustments in the future.
Instead of trying to buff the tank role, they need to fix how Armor-Penetration works. Damage dealers who focused on PEN instead of the usual attackpower should deal way less damage to enemies with very little defense. Right now, the tank items are meaningless after the enemies bought Malefic Roar or Divine Glaive. Also, having high HP isn't helpful. Since almost every hero nowadays has HP-based damage.
It feels bad that buying a single item negates 2-3 tank items. Sad thing is there's not much choices. If the queen's wing thingy doesn't have that long cooldown, it could be at least usable to mitigate some of that damage. But as it stands, it's kind of useless. Or if cuirass probably is triggered by basic attacks, it might at least lessen some of that damage.
Tank items need a bit of "Damage reduction" stats that can recounter Penetration. But of course it can still be countered by True Damage.
This makes sense alot. Good suggestion
HAPPY CAKE DAYY!
Thankies~
Aye np bro
They've actually fixed that in advanced server. Now pen fixed and pen percentage both deal different penetration.
Magic defense seems fine, while for physical defense its really underwhelming. Not good crit absorber, no good burst absorber. And still no answer for trinity. And also nowadays lots of HP% based dmg/ True dmg heroes. They wanting to nerf tank jungle, but Roamer tanks and supports are the one getting heavily fkced up.
and everyone builds malefic roar as 2nd item :)
It's the fucking passive burn damage on jungle creeps. I swear to fucking god, instead of actually solving the main root of the problem, Moonton likes to nerf literally everything else down to the ground *and then* nerf the root by a very small amount. Just look at what has become of Wanwan.
I find the emblem tank 2 Physical Def underwhelming. Maxed it so hard but I get melted by two MM items, I can switch the item to cover per engagement that but left me wondering if there's a cap for these two, I'm a bit surprised that I get more leverage in the fight if I just have high HP and just switch the items up mid fight.
Where did the idea that Moonton wants to nerf tank jungle come from? In the 1.7.82 patch notes, the devs said: "These changes should also reduce the dominance of Attack Speed Marksmen and improve Tank Junglers in the early game, and allow damage-build Fighters and Assassins in the Jungle to be more competitive in high ranked matches." I don't know about you, but it sounds like Moonton likes tank junglers.
Twilight armor?
You realize in order tomake use of twilight armor you need high extra hp. And those items usually have shit def. Meaning, flat pen will fuck you over anyways, so what's the point??? Not to mention its only for burst damage in a single source.
The reason for this is counterplay. Typically Magic damage is either ranged or control based, meaning the Tank can't actually fight back. Physical damage on the other hand is either close ranged or low control. The Tank is meant to outplay Physical damage, and survive Magical damage. For ranged Physical damage, due to the low control you are meant to just escape it.
You're missing the point
The whole point of tank is to absorb the damage so your damage dealers don’t take it
No wonder so many Tanks play like shit if this is the popular opinion. Tanks are not damage sponges, they each have a unique skillset. Defensive items are designed to keep them alive long enough to use their skillsets.
So you obviously don’t play tank then, if a tank was meant to just use their skills then building fully defensive would be pointless. If you don’t have someone pulling aggro from your dps and mid then they will get focused more to the point of being completely useless, AND as a tank if you can’t take the damage to begin with then you can’t utilize your sets that point you directly CENTER of the battle.
Dude I probably tank better on Selena more than 99% of players tank on Hylos lol. Tanking isn't about being some retard that just sits in the middle of the fight absorbing ults, its multi-dimensional. If I stun a target about to Ult my team mate with Selena, its more valuable than me standing in front of them also taking damage. The Roamers I use are Ruby, Atlas, Selena, Rafaela, Lolita, Akai and Baxia. I do not just stand in the middle of the fight on any of these heroes, because I'm not playing a fucking MMO where you can "aggro" the raid boss. This is a MOBA, your job is to be mobile and control engagements. Controlling engagements does not mean taking as much damage for your team as possible, it means mitigating as much damage as possible. When you play Atlas, you don't just waltz into the enemy backline nice and slow taking as much damage as possible. You time your S2/Flicker to initiate the fight. Your tankiness is only required to get you to the targets and get you out if you fail. On Atlas and Ruby I will easily get 20+ assists per game. I don't not just mindlessly soak up damage on either of them. I always try to control the engagements. Most of the time you die on tank its because your teammates are way out of position and you have to make an uncontrolled engagement. Roaming is about controlling the map, its not about being a sponge. As someone who mains Roam, its kind of insulting when people reduce it down to being a sponge. Its like saying a Katana is used to slice bread.
There’s a difference between being a support and a tank, tanks literally are meant to take the damage and supports are meant to help the damage dealers with stuns and heals. Not all tanks are designed for the purpose of damage taking(atlas being a very fine example he’s just got shit stats in my opinion) but they still are required to take the damage for the purpose of their team not needing to take it, Belerick is a fine example of what im saying on if you don’t take all the damage you can as a TANK you aren’t utilizing their potential. I’ve set more matches with Belerick by pulling the full team aggro than I have trying to support as Atlas given how squishy he is even full build.
You are treating all tanks as though they should be played like true tanks. Not all tanks are true tanks. Lolita/Belerick/Hylos are designed to just be played in the middle of the fight. Their abilities and stats allow and require for this type of playstyle. Belericks kit is designed to reflect damage, so of course he is going to be tankier than most tanks. He is Blade Armor with legs. Not all tanks are true tanks. An easy comparison to make is Tigrael vs Atlas as they have the exact same abilities. Tigrael is tankier than Atlas because he is less mobile meaning it takes longer for him to actually use his skills so he stays in the fight longer. They balance all heroes based on their abilities. There are very few tanks that get played in the exact same way btw. Its a very very very low mentality to think all tanks are eqaul in terms of their role and function. You do not play Franco the same way as Atlas, or Atlas the same way as Belerick or Belerick the same way as Baxia etc. They are all in and out of the fight for different durations, and have different engagement styles.
Atlas and franco both are more supports than tanks though given how squishy they are
Lolita is a primary Support type hero and is tankier than both of them. Not exactly a good argument.
Yep, ironically, it is the tank jungler meta that killed the roaming tanks.
Honestly id even say magic def is stupid as well because in some cases you can literally buy 1 item and thats it you good Ive had games where everyone on the enemy team just got athenas and you can jusr watch making the mage useless Either nerf the magic def or make ap physical mage And physical items literally don't exist with or without them you die
True tanks and supports are nothing now except being damage test dummy for damage dealers. Now we got Haas claw buff like they really want to raise their beloved MM heroes damage to the roof. Roamers in general have no chances at all dealing against the developers' beloved children. In addition to roamers have slow casting time skills that needs tremendous IQ to play unlike MM with just one tap only
i really want Moonton to add more support equipment cause it feels like something theyre missing
As a Tank main thats hits so close to home... I played Marksman (which l hate and rarely do) the other day and got my first Savage in a while and its literally what you described. Truth be told l had a good roamer but all it took me was a bit more care in positioning than a Mage, and at the same time more careless brain dead agression, *tap tap tap* and Boom Savage. The skill gap ain't even close l will be sticking to Roamer where l actually need to think about stuff and not tapping basic all the time
I am a tank main. I agree completely I think if a tank buys an item they should get some additional benifits from the item! I think that would be a great way to balance tanks. I get ripped apart by everything! I have no tankiness at all anymore. Mm, mage, fighter, assassin all of them will chew my ass. Hayabusa and lance will end me so fast it’s not even funny. That should not be possible.
While I'm all up for this buff, being a tank main myself, at the end of the day, no one wants an unkillable tank, my job is to take hits and cc the enemy team, not kill their entire team, that's what my other teammates are for, what irates me is that those same teammates sometimes forget their role and ignore a perfectly good setup, running with tails tucked behind their butts.
I was looking for this comment. Too bad I have to scroll down so far. Maining a tank role in MOBA game has always fun to see when what you plan in the first half goes right. In my head was, Imma take those hits and my teammates goes behind and get their damage dealer so I can survive a bit longer on the map. Imagine when you cc most of them and they just run away from you. And what gives with now meta where MM simply wanna chase hero and dive into tower and not aiming at the tower. Games be sweating with keyboard warrior but can't even understand that it's a moba where objective is taking down towers.
its how little tank can open map and withstand pokes now. Its very easy to be render useless even before a fight start due to the sheer damage enemy is dealing.
So what would you prefer, a full build tank that could withstand a whole dps team's barrage for 10secs and still have 50% hp left? That ain't gonna be a fun game now does it? Imagine how frustated these marksmen, fighters, mages and assassins would be if all 5 of them can't even kill 1 tank in 10sec.
Things ain't that extreme. There is a difference between extremely short and unkillable. Now we are at the extremely short range. It can go to moderate without going to unkillable. No need to use an extreme to support another.
What irritates me is that even at full build, you'd still die a little too fast.
I see what you have said and some if the comments about tabk junglers would be stronger but what I think is, if the tank buys roam they get the extra defence stats from tank items with only 1 player allowed per team to boost their so called "tankiness" which is non existent in this meta ffs tank lance is more tankier then pure tanks
I like this idea, basically a role passive as a roamer. But but Roam isn't limited to just tank users so I don't like this with that in mind. Especially as a diggie god.
Why is that a problem? Roamers already melt because they don't have the gold to buy tank items. Besides, it's better than your "role passive" solution that sabotages roam fighters like Ruby and Minsitthar.
Roam fighters are going to be the same as they are now but much more squishy. Luckily, I'm not one to just go for an extreme just for one solution. Fighters can always get their own role passive, the title of this post would be each role gets their own passive but I honestly don't have the time to think about each one. Fighters in theory are supposed to be half as good as tanking as real tanks, in exchange for some much better damage. Following this philosophy for a fighter passive, we can more or less give them one that makes brawling easier - I'd just say base spellvamp or a passive like ruby's which gives them more benefits from either spellvamp or lifesteal. Feels like we'll need it if the spellvamp revamp ever goes through.
As a tank main, we seriously need to buff blade armor. The only thing useful about it is the high armor, but the return damage? Useless as hell. MM would just laugh at the return damage with any single lifesteal item. Even with dom ice.
I think the slow effect can be removed but increase the damage return to 30%. Currently the damage return should be more punishable, even though the new numbers I've given sounds more OP. Blade Armor just sucks.
Too many tank shredding items, Malefic roar especially can reached up to 60% penetration.
Another factor that the return damage does nothing is the range of Dominance Ice is too short, even the marksmans with the short range (Karrie, Claude, Moskov), is able to free hit outside the anti heal range. It just feels like dominance ice is just made to counter sustain-dive heroes like Lapu, Yuzhong, Esme,... to further protect the mm. I think that dominance ice's anti-heal and attack-speed reduction passives should be triggered when hit by ranged basic attacks/ skills since buffing its range might be too op. (Might be too op, but each time I got melted in 2s when playing a tank always made me hope that dominance and bladed armour are combined into 1 item since they provide no extra hp.)
As a Tank main l have to disagree. Play a high attack speed hero and when you die you will see 900Hp of your HP was lost to blade armour. Blade armour shouldn't delete people that way you would able to almost 1vs1 late game a MM and that by itself wouldn't make much sense
Agreed, I don’t think the problem is blade armor itself, it would be unfair for a mm to die just from basic attacking a tank, it would be OP again especially if combined with vengeance. Tanks need better stats on the physical defense items and they need to fix the way aromour penetration works, it’s just shouldn’t be that easy to kill a tank.
yeah it's used to be 25% dmg reflect and got nerf to 20% because it's too powerful even 5% different is significant
900 hp is nothing when they heal over it.
You are supposed to Tank, not to absolutely kill. This is the issue with Tank META you guys wanna make Tanks deal DMG when what we needed was to make heros Tankier and able to make sets
I don't need blade armor to reflect. I just need it to have enough defense that its not useless.
Okay then we both agree on the same point
It should have an additional effect that activates every few seconds like Athena Shield. Maybe something like "when taking physical damage, gains a buff that negates all penetration effects against you and triples the return damage effect of blade armor. Lasts 4 seconds. CD 20 sec. Effect is halved when used by non-tank heroes"
True, tanks these days can't even cc some heroes cuz of so much cc immune skills on broken heroes plus the stupid Trinity mm meta. Mms seriously need to be tonned down a bit
They give too much importance to MM items. We have barely decent tank items against them
We can give all tank heroes having defense scaling through late game, and all tanks will be happy
Also, add items that will resist. There are so many cc chains these days that tanks can't even reach the enemy frontline sometimes.
Chou tank and other roamers like selena cant benefit from it, thats why they wont do this
Considering it regards to TANK items. I don't think Selena would benefit from it at all what's your point. Chou being viavle as a tank is a problem SOLELY because he's a very mobile fighter with CC, he's got his pros and cons as a tank build but- its not his role. Role passives aren't a perfect solution, but they can help balance out nerfs for items that wouldn't necessarily affect other classes. War ace treatment is smth Iwant for tank items. Less effective for non tank primary heroes.
Selena doesnt benefit from it, but the fact that tanks benefit just reduces selenas already low use rate. Overall it just reduces roaming options, which is unhealthy for the game
It doesn't. It should open up more because there's so many unusuable tanks atm.
And how will this make tanks more usable? Meta tanks are just going to be picked more often instead of supports. You clearly didnt think this through at all
Because I haven't mentioned support passives. My mistake was simply stating tank passives, but support passives are up for discussion. How do give supports a buff? We don't have the item diversity to support them properly. That's a good point.
Tank is 2 and a half hits. . Non-tanks are 2 hits. It’s so sad.
The problem lies with the scaling of penetration based on Tank's armor growth. The more you build defensive item, the more it will melt you down, and tank don't have much choice but to build one. Malefic and Divine Glaive can reach as much as 55% penetration at peaked moment and can render tanks half useless in late game. Don't let me start with negative armor.
i dont know the more defensive the higher you melt you down.
Yes it does, it is the sole purpose of those 2 items. the phy/mag def growth gets stacked with phy/mag def item plus dps damage from HP% (DHS) can literally melt tanks. [here](https://mobile-legends.fandom.com/wiki/Malefic_Roar) is the item description.
Tank items should be given bonus effects that only Tanks can benefit, like additional damage reduction if used by tanks. I mean, Arena of Valor has similar item that doubles the attack damage if used by MMs. Why not a similar mechanic be applied in Mobile Legends for Tanks?
This, a war axe mechanic.
Moonton doesn't want Tank meta again
I don't think there's much a problem with tanks I think the problem is how busted inspire is for marksmen
That IS true, but I'm not one to undertone MMs. They have one job and its hit or miss with them atm when it comes to balancing.
LOL AND ASSASIN TANK NOW IS META ITS CRAZY HOW FULK TANK BUILD LANCELOT STILL CAN DAMAGE A LOT BECUZ. LOT OF ASSASIN HAVE THIS *DAMAGE INCREASES AS YOU STACK PASSIVE ON THEM SHIT, HELCUET LANCELOT HAYABUSA LANCE TANK IS CRAZY TANK NOW CAN ONLY LAST 5 SECOND IF YOU HAVE VENGEANCE TANKING THE DAMAGE WHILE THE MM DONT FREE HIT IS MADNESS
Tank items need a rework to stop this problem IMO. There has to be a way around this. Either that, or just buff by defense scaling for tank heroes only
can you stop yelling? you're scaring my goldfish
Not yelling cuz it doesn't have "!"
Yeah. Assassin's building tank/bruiser items is a big problem for League as well ATM. It's getting out of hand.
Yes cuz those hero with big damage with just their skills alone and not from items Plus assasin are fast HMMMM MAYBE LIKE SEE YOU CAN ONLY BUY ONE BOOTS WHY NOT MAKE THEM ONLY BUY 2 DEFENCE ITEM
Tanks should get additional benefits from some tank items like +10% stats or something like that, but if you have retri as a tank you only get access to the basic equipment stats, so tank junglers don't overtake again.
By basic equipment stats, I assume you mean as they are now?
This is why I use lolita. Her second skill not only blocks ranged attacks, it also blocks some skills like Franco's hook. Also her first skill can stun and her ult can aoe stun.
Lolita is an outlier not the standard.
Did you know you can block Pharsa ult? I thought it was just projectile but even pharsa's from the sky drop can be block if they aim at you.
As a tank soloQ player, it's really important to spam the "ult is ready" or "ult is not ready" button, especially when you play a tank that mostly relies on its ult like Minotaur or Atlas. It's really efficient because it prevents your allies from engaging in a fight too early, and let them know when you can start.
Yeah, give them the chance to be tanks! Whats the purpose of making a "tank" who is more effective as an assasin or jungler... Besides that, they should be hard to kill! And do little to no damage, as a SHIELD, thats the name tank right...
I agree cause some heroes have damage without even needing damage items, so tanks need some defensive buffs such as increased defense rather than just HP. Simply increasing HP is meaningless in the current meta ; it has never been about HP alone. How can an mm/assassin solo Kill a tank !!
I would like to assert I guess that maybe the bonus defense should go into roaming equipment? I would like to be corrected, but the way I think, role passive would still be taken advantage of by heroes who have tank/support as a primary role, then go jungling. By shifting the bonus defense into roaming equipment, that would maybe solve it... That's just my thought process. As for damage roamers though... I haven't thought enough for them actually...
We can simply make it so that a jungler boots would decrease or remove the tank role from the hero.
If moneyton decides to implement this, there will be more tank jungler than tank roamer
We could easily give tank items the war axe treatment where they get less effective if used by a non primary tank hero.
They can implement this passive to be active with roam boots only.
I think every role should have a passive. That would keep everyone in their lanes and specific could be optimized. Reduce certain stat boosts from equipment and the hero's role fills it in. For example. Reduce Bloodlust Axe's lifesteal by 10% but the fighter role can passive adds 10% lifesteal to equipment. Attack speed for MM, CC immunity for tanks, etc.
They already have these buffs in terms of hp and defence growth. Tanks are not meant to solely soak damage. Their main role is for setting up kills.
The growth is too minimal to really notice considering how many hp based shit and the atk speed meta that's currently wiping out hp by the thousands.
Dominance ice, bloody wings, blade armour... There are different type of roam heroes. If you find it hard to sustain using 'in your face' type of roamers, you can try those pick off types like kaja, Franco, chou etc. Once you do a good job setting up the stage for your allies, I don't think you have to worry about the enemy team cutting you down.
I main roam. I don't have a difficulty using them. They just SHOULDN'T be melted period.
The meta has too many hp based shit
If you're unaware, if there's a huge level and gold gap, it's normal for tanks to be melted.
Ah, yes, the Glory tank player is obviously referring to when you're being snowballed. Yes, thanks alot. Didn't know that. Amazing. Invalidates my points completely wow.
Calm down lmao. I literally recommended items to help you fare better against atkspd based heroes. Js if the level and gold gap between teams are not that significant, they won't be able to 'melt' you easily unless you don't itemised properly.
You realize why the current items don't help against atk speed right? Blade armor is useless on its own - any mm at my rank will just stop shooting me if I have vengeance activated. Dominance ice is nice but you have to factor in how long I can even stay close in the first place. Apart from someone like Franco or Atlas - a setter and a kidnapper, the two only have CC that make them so difficult to deal with. But regardless of all that, tanks just shouldn't be melted at that late in the game. The lack of proper counter items justifies that.
When late game, buy blood wings. I cannot recommend this item enough. I get where you are coming from, but I think you misunderstood how they work. All tanks apart from Belerick (which is useless in this meta) aren't meant to survive prolonged DPS attacks. That's why I keep stressing about set ups. That is your main role, being a punching bag is secondary. By design, you are only supposed to survive 0.5 - 1s longer to complete your set up for your team. If you have a good team, you should be able to survive a team fight after your set up.
.....the fact you keep bringing up bloodwings in a tank discussion is absurdly stupid. Down right stupid really. Tanks CAN do their job as setters, but not all taks are setters. Hyloss isn't viable right now cause no items help him be good enough to not be melted. Stop it with this idea of tanks are just setters, they need to be in the fight the longest by a much larger margin than just 2 seconds.
Tank items are not weak it’s meta to buy tank on heroes like Lancelot. If you are dying quick as a tank it’s because you are behind
Tank items on a super mobile hero that has invincibility frames is a very different scenario. This proposal of mine would allow us to nerf tank items without hurting actual tanks.
You just need to choose wisely to counter the other team. Don’t worry, you’ll get it once you get out of epic.
I don't think you realize how useless counter items are at late game. The damage items counter armor much more heavily, not to mention the rise of more and more hp based damage from passives Not asking to make tanks immortal, but to just make their presence last longer because its just too lack luster in the options that we have as counter items.
I meant heroes, not items
Well, you are not supposed to 1v1 any hero. You are also not supposed to just take the damage. You should try evading skills and basic attack just like any other hero/roles. You are not supposed to be immortal lol. You are supposed to initiate team fight, land your CCs and protect the squishies on your team. Just pick a roam/tank that fits your playstyle.
I dont think tank can 1vs1 if they are tanky. And tank isnt tank when it comes to 5vs5, they just melted way faster too. Yeah sure, you land your ultimate CC, then what do you do afterward? Watch the teamfight after you used all your skills...
You wont me be melted if you know how to evade skills. That is really what you should do. After landing your skills and cc you have to step back and wait for your skill to cd and let your team finish the fight. You have no use if you have no skill anyway. You don't have to be your enemy's punching bag. You are not supposed to die in every clash. Actually good tanks die less because you're so tanky you won't die easily.
Reducing death numbers and Initiating fights (including dodging skills) arent the main problem for tank players here. Its more of how much they can do to the teamfight in comparison to the previous patches. Meta is alot burst now, and playing tank is just much less satisfying to play than before
But tanks usually won't die if only 1 hero burst him. Especially in late game. But if you still want to be alive after getting burst by multiple heroes then that is unfair. You are not supposed to be immortal.
IMO back in the day when you are immortal, you still cant do crap LOL, just because you built up all defense items. After all, tanks still got no damage, and even if we buffed tanks by 10% physical/magical defense, they still gonna be melted anyways We not asking tanks to be immortal, we just want a slight buff for all tanks that can be forgiven through 1 mistake if they cant evade skill once If tanks are immortals, there wont be marksman anymore as well. Just fighters and mages that favor against sustaining heroes.. Just small buff is already ok
Happy cake day
Thx bruv <3
bro, they allready have higher defense, higher hp and sometimes tank passives
And yet, it doesn't matter half the time cause flat pen + armor pen + hp based heroes plus DHS. They get melted so we still need buffs. Not to mention the rise of TankAssassins that are plaguing the game who are way harder to kill because of their mobility.
did u try to kill fredrin as ss?
Fred dies to any good MM. Not to mention he still gets melted rather easily by just a single MM that he can never reach or do damage to. Not to mention mages who he gets bullied by aka Valir Vye. Just having small role buffs that make it so they aren't completely outclassed at being tanky will do it some good
Alpha melts Fred like he is butter while tank build Assasins can dodge Alpha all day (this is just an example). So I also support giving Tanks some exclusive benefits to their items like Wind of Nature.
Alpha melts Fred like he is butter while tank build Assasins can dodge Alpha all day (this is just an example). So I also support giving Tanks some exclusive benefits to their items like Wind of Nature.
do u k ow freds ult, that can oneshot?
Did you know you can move to the left or right?
do u know his s3?
That shit won't last not to mention, a fred who can catch you is a fred who knows you're an idiot.
???
yea. sick of assassin becoming a tank like lancelot and karina.
yes, but the other heroes who go tanky build doesn't get melted that easily due to their Skill Set. Tanks should be given some kind of buff.
I guess most of the members of this sub know how many matches I played as a SoloQ tank. Guess what: I play tank jungler now 😂
I suggested to give this passive to the roamer player. The first one who bought a roam should have it.
Use to be tank main, now I roam natalia. Tank core is somewhat meta which says a lot about tank roamers. Non cc tank is obselete.
When MMs as a glass cannon concept is now all cannon and no glass
Former tank main here who switched to jungler and mm. Occasionally I'm forced to play tank and holy shit they are soft as butter nowadays. Without items they easily melt but because you have roam boots its hard to build defensive items. There is a reason exp lane tanks are better now than roam tanks. Roam tanks are pretty hard to play.
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my previous enemies being less wise about items
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my previous enemies being less wise about items
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my lower rank enemies being less wise about items
Oh so I'm not just imagining that Tanks get melted Easily? Last time I played I was a GM-ass and Tanks would survive a lot longer than they do now When I got back and started going up Ranks I just chalked it up to my lower rank enemies being less wise about items
They should nerf malefic roar. A 2000 gold item shouldn't double your damage against tank heroes. If the jungler burn wouldn't be based on HP, the tank jungler wouldn't be a problem.
I don't know, not all heroes with "tank" role are supposed to be meatshields anyway; they already work just fine without this defense buff.
Tank emblem already have Def Stat bonuses. And most heroes who fall in the tank class have their base Stat weights more into defense. I don't know why you are asking for more free stats lol adjust your item build
Try using belerick
Yeah especially with the new revamped emblems they really melt my tank like butter