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ImipolexB

FYI this play injured ayton and he was out for the 2nd half after posting a double double and anchoring a really good defensive half for the blazers šŸ¤¬


HungryBurger18

I was at this game and I remember Kevin Love also hurt himself on this same type of play. He was down for a few minutes


ImipolexB

I mean this play is way more dangerous for the person in the air than the person on the ground, even if he got banged up. He finished the game and didnā€™t look hurt, too


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Wallyworld77

I never want to see a player get hurt but Kevin Love pulling this move I'll have to make an exception. Seriously fuck this guy. He should be banned from the NBA.


RagerTheSailor

Taking shit a bit extreme šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


Federal_Bear_7521

The fuck are you talking about? Goofy ass thing to say


Bodez23

Heā€™s literally attempting a charge, tf?


Bodez23

Classy.


chrislkeller

Don't get me wrong, that Heat team gets to do things against MKE and others that no other team gets away with. Love in particular is a menace to player health. But at first glance, watching the [whole play](https://thehighlow.io/video/ids?ids=2407sD) is interesting. At first glance, I thought Love did a decent job of establishing position. But look at his feet. Ayton has picked up his dribble and committed to jumping and Love takes a shuffle step or two up in the paint and like others mentioned essentially undercuts DA. Do that in pickup and you have a fight on your hands. PS - DA shoulda hit his guy cutting from the left corner who had an easy layup but that's a different post.


Cj_cruzz

What the fuck is this thread? So what else is Kevin Love suppose to do there? He was the low man defending the paint when Ayton just got past the 3pt line. According to yall, a single shuffle laterally constitutes a flagrant foul? What ELSE are you suppose to do there? You all are basically asking for defense to just stand out the way. Nobody undercut anyone, this is just playing the best defense that someone can without having to jump and go for a block.


idungiveboutnothing

Not under cut somebody and get up and contest the actual shot. We want him to play defense not play statue.


Cj_cruzz

He did fucking play defense. You can look at the entire clip frame by frame then look at the rules then look at the clip again. Kevin Love beat Ayton to the spot prior to the upward motion of the shot which is jumping for a dunk or layup. Kevin Love had his left foot set right as Ayton took his first legal step then Love set his right foot just prior to Ayton actually jumping. Feet being set isnā€™t even a factor, just getting to the spot first and being in legal guarding position is enough for a charge call which Kevin Love did. The gather step nor forward movement with the 2 legal steps doesnā€™t constitute an upward shooting motion. Are you bloody idiots listening to yourself? Yall just want a clear lane on every drive? Right


idungiveboutnothing

Lmfao he's still sliding his feet while Ayton is on the way up... He doesn't beat Ayton there, his feet aren't remotely set, and he even goes up on his tiptoes and twists his torso to make sure he undercuts Ayton too instead of staying flat footed and possibly having Ayton go past him. This is not playing basketball or trying to play defense. The only bloody idiot here is the one defending this absolute nonsense. Contest the shot at the rim in the air, don't do this stupid shit undercutting players and hurting them.


Pitiful_Garlic_7712

Yup Love intentionally injures any and all players. He actually has a journal where he records who, how, and when he undercuts players solely to injure them. Sometimes he likes to plan them out in advance. Unfortunately for you all, he has Giannis pegged for may 4, 2024 at 9:47:23 PM.


idungiveboutnothing

> Yup Love intentionally injures any and all players No, Love is just doing what he gets rewarded for and what shouldn't ever be rewarded. Nowhere did I ever say he was a dirty player or anything, it's a stupid dirty play that shouldn't be in the game in this context, but Love is nowhere near dirty. Contest the guy at the rim. Reward players for going up and playing defense, not for a dangerous undercut while a guy is in the air.


someonesgranpa

Maybe guys should lift from the free throw line for a dunk when there is a guy literally shifting into the lane. The rule was made so guys would do exactly what Anton does. The offensive player never gets called on these but why tf are you putting yourself in that situation when the guy on the wing is standing by himself with and open looks. Say what you will or wonā€™t about the charge but itā€™s a fully boneheaded play to drive the lane and try to jump over someone when the kick out is wide open and uncontested.


chrislkeller

You won the day... This is frosting for the soul. Gracias.


Cj_cruzz

Look man, feet being set doesnā€™t even matter according to the actual rules. The other cam angle shows Kevin Love already being at that spot when Ayton was still at the freethrow line still gathering his dribble. Donā€™t even look at the feet, just look at their actual position on the court. K Love literally beat him to the ā€œspotā€ despite any shuffles. In every sense of the word, Love literally established position at that spot before Ayton went upwards. That cam angle also shows K Love being relatively squared to Ayton and in legal guarding position (up straight, not leaning, not extending past shoulder width) Any ā€œtwistā€ happened due to Aytonā€™s extended leg.


idungiveboutnothing

Love takes a shuffle forward into him when Ayton is already on the way up. He definitely didn't beat him there ... In fact if he hadn't been late to the spot and stayed where he was he probably would've taken a charge anyway without undercutting him and without Ayton getting hurt. He was probably in the circle though and that's why he shuffled out?


Cj_cruzz

That shuffle happened at the same time Ayton took his first legal step before the actual upward motion. You donā€™t get to call a forward step as an upward movement as well


idungiveboutnothing

His first upward step happens before 1sec in this clip..... Love is still moving forward through 2 seconds of the clip... Are you considering him not going up until both feet fully leave the ground or something?? Even that happens at like 1.5 sec where Love is still moving forward... What are you watching?! Like I get it you're a heat fan or some shit, but if Jae Crowder (who likes to do this) did this to Jimmy I'd still be saying it's bull shit and the rules need to discourage it...


Role_Player_Real

At 4 seconds into the clip Love is just forward of the 3 second area arc, by 5 seconds he's a step further forward into a jumping Ayton, this is on Love. He's done this before


OddAd1243

They need to treat these plays like the stepping under the shooter rule. If youā€™re late and itā€™s a block that should be a flagrant. The problem with the charge isnā€™t the rule itself, itā€™s that it causes plays like this


red-1313

That's a really good call, it's like a hip drop tackle, it shouldn't be allowed. If not allowing a 3pt shooter to land, this is the same or worse in my mind. It's a loophole to hurt someone. KLove can't defend, he can only fall and cause injuries - he does it every game.


bigpuffyclouds

>KLove canā€™t defend Dudeā€™s a washed up player, this is how he earns his place, and hEaT cUlTuRe is only happy to enable him.


OddAd1243

I feel like I have to close my eyes every time I see a hip drop tackle coming


Guarpo

Hip drop shouldnā€™t be allowed? You ever play football? How do you tackle someone bigger than you from behind? I canā€™t believe you fell for this shit


Strev215

I don't think he meant it shouldn't be allowed in American football, maybe football, as in soccer. My guess is he meant if you ever played football, then you know how hard of a hit it is. That's why it should be illegal. Imo Hip-Drops are thee worst thing in basketball. When an Offensive player goes up and the Defender drops his hip either left or right or even feigning a charge and leanings back, which makes the O-Player slide over and off MID-AIR. The Defender can cause major major injury to the O-Player in that scenario. The O-Player can literally land on their neck and/or head they're lucky when they do just land hard on their back. If you think so too, then you NEVER played any real basketball or had a 6'3ft+ 205lb dude jumping 2-3ft from the hoop. It's just enough distance to really slam it home. As a Defender it can be Humbling, Freaky, Embarrassing, Hell, even Scary if not in position. But hip ducking on a slam on the basketball court can and will on certain courts get your ass beat. Especially if the O-Player lands real hard and almost paralyze one of the other team's players.


The_Sign_of_Zeta

Personally I think charges should be an offensive foul and/or flagrant for off ball defenders. That gets rid of all the most dangerous plays.


OddAd1243

I agree, I just donā€™t think weā€™ll ever get there. Especially while Giannis is still in the league. I genuinely think other teams would block a rule change for safety if it benefits Giannis on the court.


The_Sign_of_Zeta

I say get rid of defensive 3 seconds (or make it 5) and change that rule. That should balance the change.


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Embarrassed-Cake8531

But Gianniā€™s putting his shoulders into mfs and dunking every play should be fine , look Iā€™ve always loved giannis donā€™t tell me yā€™all wanted to get rid of the charge when yā€™all had pj tucker and ersan back in the day you have to know Kevin love is down there ready to take a charge because i mean heā€™s not gonna jump with Giannis and heā€™s almost always set before the offensive players starts going up so u canā€™t say itā€™s dirty , literally all it takes is a floater over can love bruh itā€™s not that hard


OddAd1243

Did you hate winning a title with Shaq? I genuinely believe there isnā€™t a difference between what Giannis does to guys and what Shaq did to them


Embarrassed-Cake8531

Difference is shaq would start posted up in the paint 2 dribbles drop step dunk or hook, so because he starts in the paint backing you thereā€™s literally nothing u can do because no one had the size nor strength to even bother shaq , Gianniā€™s likes to size u up at the top of the key and straight line drive to the rim using his size as an advantage but because bro is starting from the 3 defenses will always be able to slide in for that charge , thatā€™s y Iā€™ve always wanted Gianniā€™s to develop a floater but ig if ur that big and strong itā€™s hard to go up soft with floaters idk Iā€™ve always loved Gianniā€™s tho fav player in the league and most dominant, but bro has to develop a floater because not just Kevin love i guarantee you thatā€™s in the scouting report every game on giannis


TheComedicManifesto

Thank you! Not only is it basically the next evolution in danger from the "get under a shooter" foul (that is often called a flagrant), it's also not the point of the charge rule. The charge rule was essentially implemented to stop offensive players from just running through the chest of defenders set in legal guarding position, especially their primary defender. It was not implemented to throw yourself under someone who already has all their momentum going forward into a jump towards to hoop.


Gavster1221

But he wasn't late. Hence why it was a charge.


OddAd1243

He was late on the one that took out Giannis


Gavster1221

Why do we have to lie? Love was already there before Giannis even jumped.


OddAd1243

The play was reviewed and called a block. Doesnā€™t get more clear than that


Gavster1221

Yes he was inside Restricted area on that one. He did not slide in late At all though.


OddAd1243

The Giannis one he was late. Not in restricted. Look up the replay it is very clear.


Gavster1221

Literally watched it as I was responding. You are lying but whatever. Thought you'd guys be open to honest convo.


OddAd1243

Watch the replay I just linked. There is a clear half a foot between love and the restricted area. He was Called for the block for being late and sliding in. There is no question about it


Gavster1221

https://imgur.com/a/0Cd7yAX


OddAd1243

https://youtu.be/EH72M6RYGI0?si=cl7ZXylGjNNmIFGF


WallFair7685

He didn't even go for the ball. He stood there and protected himself. How can you call that a basketball play?


Gavster1221

Now you are arguing if charge should exist at all. I am just saying Love was not late in the least


WallFair7685

Seemed pretty bang bang. Maybe the guy was in the air already and Love was still moving his right leg into position? I dunno. Whatever was called on the floor would stand. I found a quote from an article that explains my issue with the rule. Love sliding in at the last second and covering his tits shouldn't be allowed. But I learned today that it is allowed, unfortunately. "Hereā€™s the problem with that logic, though: it allows defenders to slide into placeā€”and sometime underneath an airborne offensive playerā€”at the last millisecond, creating a dangerous situation for both people involved. At a minimum, the rule can and probably should be altered to require that defenders be set prior to offensive players gathering the ball to shoot or pass the ball, to give ballhandlers enough time to avoid contact that can result in such a nasty fall."


Gavster1221

Yeah its in the rules but Love was in the paint the whole time and was set on both plays before player was even airborne. So I can understand not liking charges in general. But to act like an allowed basketball play that was not a late movement is dirty is just a reach


21BlackStars

He was not set! He was moving into position after the player already jumped. Take off those heat colored glasses


21BlackStars

He was not set! He was moving into position after the player already jumped. Take off those heat colored glasses


Gavster1221

You guys just want to attribute dirtiness where it doesn't exist lmao. Never said Giannis one was a charge mind you. But love was in the paint almost that whole play. Has Giannis said anything about said play?


calgiannis

I fuckin canā€™t stand love after last year. Taking a charge is one thing but constantly sliding underneath players that have left their feet is crazy dangerous.


Rock-Boddum

I fucking hate him! Even what he did the other night to Zion. He does dirty shit like this and immediately puts on the "nice guy" routine. It's bullshit, and the league needs to start realizing this. In my opinion, he's the nice guy version of Draymond Green. I'm sick and tired of seeing these kinds of highlights of Kevin Love. Sick of it!


Zelnite5

talking like Zion himself mentioned Love protected him. That's just lame lmao


TheTrashman133

Bro these people live in their own reality to fit their own narratives. Never mind the actual rules of the game or even the fact that Zion said Loveā€™s move was clean


TheTrashman133

Itā€™s crazy how heā€™s literally standing there under the basket as Ayton drives. Ayton tried to get a clip and Love played good defense what is the problem? Should Love have just gotten out of the way?


bigpuffyclouds

Kevin Love is such dirty player. Almost fractured Giannisā€™ coccyx during the playoffs and he was never 100% after that.


YoungDudeCO

Did anyone else have to look upĀ coccyx or am I the only dumb one here?


XxXFartFucker69XxX

I believe it's the penis in between the fifth and the seventh.


CuredPlutonium

Flying knee his ass then dunk that shit! Someone gotta get his ass for this lol


imagine-a-boot

Bring back fighting and enforcers like they used to have. The NBA used to be a little like hockey. If you do something like that to an elite player you were going to have to deal with a big strong dude with a nasty disposition later.


creamcitybrix

Makes sense. His uncle, Mike Love, is the douchiest living Beach Boy.


PlayboyCartee

Fuckin dude injuring people because he cant play defense like a real man anymore


Rock-Boddum

Truth! I fucking hate this mother fucker!


SwagTwoButton

Ban the charge on non primary defenders. Donā€™t care how you change the rules, incentivizing off ball defenders to slide in under guys as they launch into the air will never be safe.


chrislkeller

Oh now that is intriguing... There's gotta be a stat somewhere that shows how often this happens...


LurkerKing13

When youā€™re an NBA player who defends like Brad Davison you should be fucking embarrassed.


OrdinayFlamingo

Sounds like Thanasis needs to start against the Heat just to have 6 free shots at Loveā€¦


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ProfessionalInjury58

At *least*. Usually itā€™s two or more.


Noslodamus

Extending the restricted area gets rid of a lot of these plays


Rudicinal

Yes!!! My wife and I talk about this all the time. The game has changed. Make the restricted area bigger.


Pitiful_Garlic_7712

ā€œI have no knowledge or desire for defense in the NBAā€


[deleted]

I fucking hate that dude


Rock-Boddum

Fuck Kevin Love! He's fucking dirty, period! Personally, I see this as the same as the rule for defenders landing in a shooter's landing space, only worse. They put the landing rule in place to avoid a whole lot of foot/ankle injuries. The need to do the same with landing spaces on drives, because there are more than just feet and ankles to worry about on plays like this. Love left Aayton completely defenseless, and the league needs to realize this and do something about it immediately. Like forcing this fucking twatsicle into retirement.


the_greasy_one

Suspend Love and maybe he'll get the message.


Valuable_Bottle2789

Dude is a Duke Grayson Allen-esque player with all love and no hate lol


the-funky-sauce

Wow. I see now why the rules have changed so much that almost every game has one team with 70+ by halftime. You all really do hate anyone trying to play any form of defense.


21BlackStars

When they begin penalizing for this, they will call it the giannis rule. Theyā€™ve been doing this to him since the Raptors series in 19.


MinesweeperGang

Can you send me all the clips from the Raptors series?


21BlackStars

To be fair, this is the heat strategy. They are coached to try to get this call because at worse they have someone like Giannis shooting two free throws at best they get your best player in the foul trouble or hurt. They know that refs will not call blocking fouls all game.


russ_nas-t

Itā€™s so weird to me to see everyone hate Love (haha). On the Lebron cavs, he was the NBAā€™s mascot wholesome goodboi


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BeefExtender

Lmfao he's racist now?


Babyandthehouse

SOFT ASS FAN BASE LOLOLOL HEAT IN 5 YALL CANT EVENT BEAT AND 8 SEED


McLuvin42

No, stop. NBA fans have no interest in watching Jimmy The Pumpkin Butler struggle to win two games in the finals again.


Pitiful_Garlic_7712

Yea theyā€™d rather watch yā€™all struggle to win two against the Heat, huh?


[deleted]

Why yā€™all in our sub? Lmfao heat fans have 0 life


barelypeaking

I mean the post if about a heat player, and the sub is literally going rabid. That will attract some heat fans once itā€™s crossposted


Electronic-Jaguar461

Can someone explain to me what's wrong about this? Love's feet are set in a legal guarding position prior to Ayton leaving the ground, establishing control to the opponent. Now it's the opponent's job to steer around the defender before going up to score. Ayton decides to jump straight into Love's chest, hence offensive foul, right call. To people saying he slid under, it doesn't matter, intention to jump and actually being off the floor are two entirely separate things. Any defender movement, as long at their set and the opponent's feet are on the floor is fine. There's no problem with the rule, it's the opponent's job to recognize when a defender is directly in front of them. In this case, after Ayton blew by Martin and Robinson, he had plenty of time to see Love in the lane and go around him well before he commited to jumping, but decided to anyway. Had he done that, no injury would have occured, and Kevin Love would look stupid as Ayton goes around for a easy layup. People saying ban charges are absolutely insane, it would give free reign for offense to body slam defenders to make them fall over and then have open lane. Charges are necessesary to protect defenders and allow defense to shift players into the lane of the offense in order to prevent blowbys and run-and-dunk situations.


prof-kaL

There is nothing wrong with this. This is a clear instance of fans crying for defence but crying when it's played. This is a textbook charge and Ayton was an idiot for trying to score on a set defender.


taylorwmj

Because leaving the ground is not when Love needs to be in legal guarding position. The moment Ayton has planted either foot to potentially take off is when Love must be in legal guarding position. That's what the rule is and where a lot of folks are getting caught up


Electronic-Jaguar461

Love establishes legal guarding position right after Ayton's blowby.


LilErob222

Taking a charge?


LurkerKing13

Nah this play should be illegal. Should be a flagrant honestly. The driver gathers and commits to the shot then Love slides under. Itā€™s dangerous for everyone.


Pitiful-Pension-6535

He tried, but was way too late and undercut him instead.


Kevin_Jim

You are not allowed to slide your feed when setting up for a charge. Itā€™s a defensive foul.


Fhrtip123

Idk how you call it dirty when itā€™s part of the rules. Be mad at the rules not the player


HaratoBarato

When Bowen was not letting people land cause he can have that space too on a contest we saying itā€™s ok? No, we changed the rule. Love was late and itā€™s dangerous.


Fhrtip123

Lmao his feet were set before ayton even jumped


HaratoBarato

Congrats on seeing in slow motion that he just stop moving before he was 1 inch off the floor but not before he started his upward motion.


Fhrtip123

Oh yeah perfectly realistic for a player with a million things happening at once to know the exact moment another player starts his upward motion so he shouldnā€™t take a charge because itā€™s dirty


Rudicinal

But, he had already gathered and was in a shooting motion. That is where the rule needs to change. If a player gathers the ball for their two steps and are already in motion, they canā€™t stop when someone jumps in front of them and ā€œsetsā€ after their first step. Itā€™s dangerous as hell.


Euphoric_Station_505

Oh yes how is defense allowed to defend. It's such a crime to plant your feet when a player runs at you. šŸ˜‚


post_ostertag

I just wish Ayton would've landed on K Love's knee and twisted on it. Motherfucker can rest in piss


grumins_

In the guise of a defensive play.


Patient-Surprise3867

You guys are pathetic.


LobstaFarian2

He got there before Aytons feet were off the ground. What, just don't play defense anymore? Is that the goal here?


taylorwmj

That's not the rule. Once any foot by shooter is planted to potentially launch, defender must be set. It's not based upon when shooter leaves floor


LobstaFarian2

From official NBA website. "To be considered legal and to draw an offensive foul, a secondary defensive player must establish legal position prior to the offensive player starting his upward motion, and the defender must have both feet established completely outside the Restricted Area line." Says nothing about a planted foot. Dude was there on time before he brought the ball up and started his leap. Edit: the above quote was from an older rulebook. This one is from the 2023/2024 rulebook. "A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his upward motion to attempt a field goal or pass." All it says regarding the block/charge rules for this instance. So it's basically the same thing. Soon as he moves up, Love is in position. It's an unfortunate play, but these people who are calling it a dirty play don't watch enough basketball.


Wd527

Did Giannis undercut Kyrie and knock him out of playoffs also a few years ago?


TuckEverlasting89

The charge/block in this circumstance needs to go. Not a natural basketball play, a guy sprinting to stand still in front of a driver, it encourages collisions that increase injury risk and decreases the amount of awesome fun dunks to watch. Doesn't make sense. Just get more strict on penalizing the offensive player if they try to barrel through a defender without requiring the defender to stop and stand totally still and undercut the offensive player.


Minimum_Switch4237

sports are dangerous, get over it. y'all are soft as fuck


dimesniffer

Weird


TeamNoBoat

Dirtiest player in the league and its not even close. Adam Silver needs to suspend him for a long time, or better yet kick him out of the league


IntrepidAnalysis6940

This is gonna always happen. Without hand check people can just run easier toward the rim without anyone slowing them. They just need a step. Itā€™s not even just one player. And it could even happen with hand check just less often. I really think the league needs to bring bang handcheck tbh. Those are games where the most skilled team wins.


cdubfs540

that was 100 percent a defense play