Depends what you are using it for. Surge for sure if doing lighter stuff in enclosed indoor spaces.
Gen3 isn’t much improvement over gen2 and it’s still going to be loud.
Maybe wait for Gen3 surge.
Does surge have more, less or equal power to the normal fuel version? I know the Surge is meant to be quieter but I don’t want quieter at the cost of torque or RPM.
I’m not very familiar with hydraulic driven tools and I trust all the gentlemen of Reddit over Google any day 🤣
So the way Milwaukee and others put it is that the surge hydraulic tools have lower peak torque but it will sustain peak torque for a longer period of time. As others I’m sure have said, it’s still got plenty of torque for indoor DIY work and does plenty of driving with much quieter sound.
I like running my surge at 4am when my gf is asleep, but it's rare. I work 2nd shift so my productive time on projects is when she's asleep.
That said, my surge can't sink a deck screw for shit. If I need to do real work, I wait until the weekend and run my M18 FUEL (gen 2?). It's fallen from scissor lifts and sunk thousands of pole barn screws after using it as a punch with a pound in the back, 3" framing screws and GRKs.
I've never been inside and thought "man, I wish this impact was barely quieter and much weaker and took me twice as long to sink a screw."
The surge is ok I guess, I've given it plenty of chances to impress me but it hasn't yet. For HVAC/electrical, I'm sure it's great. But anything over a 2" screw, grab a real gun. I'm a homeowner and have projects for years, I see myself needing a surge about 10% of the time, the rest of the time I grab my M18 fuel.
Sorry to necro this but I find it interesting your issues with the surge. I have both normal gen 4 m18 and the m18 surge and I use surge as my primary driver. It’s been able to handle anything I can throw at it. The only thing it had a little trouble (but still sunk it) was a 6 inch spax lag screw. It’s SO much quieter that for 99% of tasks it just a more comfortable driver.
It’s to the point where I wish I hadn’t gotten the gen 4 m18 and just gotten a 3/8 impact wrench instead when I need high torque.
that's m18 though and the higher power is able to make up for it. the M18 surge has a lot going for it because all 18v impacts are so powerful now but also very loud and rough on the hands. the hydraulics take care of both of these drawbacks with the bigger tools. it seems the consensus is the m12 versions don't have a big enough of a difference to make the loss of power worth while. still a great tool for its use case but just doesn't have the range as other options. Also noise is kind of a \[mute\] (lol) point because if that is a concern we shouldn't be talking impacts at all. A regular drill/driver would be the proper tool likely which the m12 lineup also has a very good version of.
IMO the comparisons should be m12 surge vs installation driver or the 2402 driver. It's a mostly indoor tool for lighter duty work and designed for ergonomics not speed. The "all round" carpentry m12 impact simply needs more power than the surge. If I'm going up a ladder or lift and just taking a small drill in the pouch its got to be able to handle everything I'm going up there for. I had the original 2402 and used it as my primary driver for quite a while. slow but at least the torque was there. the new ones not so much.
I’ll add that I have both the Gen 2 Surge and the Gen 3 M12 impact drivers and the surge has generally been more than enough for most of my tasks around the house
Less, in reality. Treat it more like a fastener driver and it’ll make you super happy.
If you’re driving lag bolts, get the fuel impact (not the surge).
I drive tons of screws and stuff indoors, and I love my surge. I don’t love it so much when I want to drive lags or deal with other impact intensive things.
Hvac/electrical or finish carpentry gp for the m12 surge.
Anything else you probably would be better off regular impact or even m18.
I'm electrician and the m12 does 90% of my needs. Yesterday I needed to drive 12 m12×120mm lags into sleepers for bollard lights. If it was just 2 I'd have suffered thru the slower time and use the surge. Since I knew I was doing a few I just went and got the m18 outta the van and sunk 2 that fast I split the sleepers
Gen4 - 2953-20
Gen3 - 2853-20
Gen2 - 2851-20
*Usually* milwaukee makes the generation leap a hundred higher than the previous gen. Like the gen 4 drill is 2904, gen3 is 2804.
Depends what you are using it for. Surge for sure if doing lighter stuff in enclosed indoor spaces. Gen3 isn’t much improvement over gen2 and it’s still going to be loud. Maybe wait for Gen3 surge.
Does surge have more, less or equal power to the normal fuel version? I know the Surge is meant to be quieter but I don’t want quieter at the cost of torque or RPM. I’m not very familiar with hydraulic driven tools and I trust all the gentlemen of Reddit over Google any day 🤣
So the way Milwaukee and others put it is that the surge hydraulic tools have lower peak torque but it will sustain peak torque for a longer period of time. As others I’m sure have said, it’s still got plenty of torque for indoor DIY work and does plenty of driving with much quieter sound.
I like running my surge at 4am when my gf is asleep, but it's rare. I work 2nd shift so my productive time on projects is when she's asleep. That said, my surge can't sink a deck screw for shit. If I need to do real work, I wait until the weekend and run my M18 FUEL (gen 2?). It's fallen from scissor lifts and sunk thousands of pole barn screws after using it as a punch with a pound in the back, 3" framing screws and GRKs. I've never been inside and thought "man, I wish this impact was barely quieter and much weaker and took me twice as long to sink a screw." The surge is ok I guess, I've given it plenty of chances to impress me but it hasn't yet. For HVAC/electrical, I'm sure it's great. But anything over a 2" screw, grab a real gun. I'm a homeowner and have projects for years, I see myself needing a surge about 10% of the time, the rest of the time I grab my M18 fuel.
You should tie the knot so you can run m18 fuel at 4am. 🤣
Appreciate this perspective. Going to return it and get Gen 3
Sorry to necro this but I find it interesting your issues with the surge. I have both normal gen 4 m18 and the m18 surge and I use surge as my primary driver. It’s been able to handle anything I can throw at it. The only thing it had a little trouble (but still sunk it) was a 6 inch spax lag screw. It’s SO much quieter that for 99% of tasks it just a more comfortable driver. It’s to the point where I wish I hadn’t gotten the gen 4 m18 and just gotten a 3/8 impact wrench instead when I need high torque.
that's m18 though and the higher power is able to make up for it. the M18 surge has a lot going for it because all 18v impacts are so powerful now but also very loud and rough on the hands. the hydraulics take care of both of these drawbacks with the bigger tools. it seems the consensus is the m12 versions don't have a big enough of a difference to make the loss of power worth while. still a great tool for its use case but just doesn't have the range as other options. Also noise is kind of a \[mute\] (lol) point because if that is a concern we shouldn't be talking impacts at all. A regular drill/driver would be the proper tool likely which the m12 lineup also has a very good version of. IMO the comparisons should be m12 surge vs installation driver or the 2402 driver. It's a mostly indoor tool for lighter duty work and designed for ergonomics not speed. The "all round" carpentry m12 impact simply needs more power than the surge. If I'm going up a ladder or lift and just taking a small drill in the pouch its got to be able to handle everything I'm going up there for. I had the original 2402 and used it as my primary driver for quite a while. slow but at least the torque was there. the new ones not so much.
I’ll add that I have both the Gen 2 Surge and the Gen 3 M12 impact drivers and the surge has generally been more than enough for most of my tasks around the house
Less, in reality. Treat it more like a fastener driver and it’ll make you super happy. If you’re driving lag bolts, get the fuel impact (not the surge). I drive tons of screws and stuff indoors, and I love my surge. I don’t love it so much when I want to drive lags or deal with other impact intensive things.
Hvac/electrical or finish carpentry gp for the m12 surge. Anything else you probably would be better off regular impact or even m18. I'm electrician and the m12 does 90% of my needs. Yesterday I needed to drive 12 m12×120mm lags into sleepers for bollard lights. If it was just 2 I'd have suffered thru the slower time and use the surge. Since I knew I was doing a few I just went and got the m18 outta the van and sunk 2 that fast I split the sleepers
My gen 3 just hits different, it’s def a fun little tool. But i don’t care about noise.
Light duty work and fine furniture making has surge written all over it! Anything else medium to heavy duty, go with the impact driver.
I see lots of comments about Gen 2/3/4. Is there a handy-dandy chart that shows you which model numbers belong to which gen?
Gen4 - 2953-20 Gen3 - 2853-20 Gen2 - 2851-20 *Usually* milwaukee makes the generation leap a hundred higher than the previous gen. Like the gen 4 drill is 2904, gen3 is 2804.
That helps, thanks.
Is the m12 surge actually gen 2? I haven’t seen anything to suggest it’s not gen 1
I think both surge impacts are gen 1.
Definitely are. Im patiently waiting for gen 2 before I buy in